.


April 25, 2006


MOLLY IVINS

Austin, Texas


"Let's call the Israel lobby the Israel lobby"


One of the consistent deformities in American policy debate has been challenged by a couple of professors, and the reaction proves their point so neatly it's almost funny.

A working paper by John Mearsheimer, professor of political science at the University of Chicago, and Stephen Walt, professor of international affairs at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, called "The Israel Lobby" was printed in the London Review of Books earlier this month. And all hell broke loose in the more excitable reaches of journalism and academe.

For having the sheer effrontery to point out the painfully obvious -- that there is an Israel lobby in the United States -- Mearsheimer and Walt have been accused of being anti-Semitic, nutty and guilty of "kooky academic work." Alan Dershowitz, who seems to be easily upset, went totally ballistic over the mild, academic, not to suggest pretty boring article by Mearsheimer and Walt, calling them "liars" and "bigots."

Of course there is an Israeli lobby in America -- its leading working group is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). It calls itself "America's Pro-Israel Lobby," and it attempts to influence U.S. legislation and policy.

Several national Jewish organizations lobby from time to time. Big deal -- why is anyone pretending this non-news requires falling on the floor and howling? Because of this weird deformity of debate.

In the United States, we do not have full-throated, full-throttle debate about Israel. In Israel, they have it as matter of course, but the truth is that the accusation of anti-Semitism is far too often raised in this country against anyone who criticizes the government of Israel.

Being pro-Israel is no defense, as I long ago learned to my cost. Now I've gotten used to it. Jews who criticize Israel are charmingly labeled "self-hating Jews." As I have often pointed out, that must mean there are a lot of self-hating Israelis, because those folks raise hell over their own government's policies all the time.

I don't know that I've ever felt intimidated by the knee-jerk "you're anti-Semitic" charge leveled at anyone who criticizes Israel, but I do know I have certainly heard it often enough to become tired of it.

And I wonder if that doesn't produce the same result: giving up on the discussion.

It's the sheer disproportion, the vehemence of the attacks on anyone perceived as criticizing Israel that makes them so odious. Mearsheimer and Walt are both widely respected political scientists -- comparing their writing to "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is just silly.

Several critics have pointed out some flaws in the Mearsheimer-Walt paper, including a too-broad use of the term "Israel lobby" -- those of us who are pro-Israel differ widely -- and having perhaps overemphasized the clout of the Israel lobby by ignoring the energy lobby.

It seems to me the root of the difficulty has been Israel's inability first to admit the Palestinians have been treated unfairly and, second, to figure out what to do about it. Now here goes a big fat generalization, but I think many Jews are so accustomed (by reality) to thinking of themselves as victims, it is especially difficult for them to admit they have victimized others.

But the Mearsheimer-Walt paper is not about the basic conflict, but its effect on American foreign policy, and it appears to me their arguments are unexceptional. Israel is the No. 1 recipient of American foreign aid, and it seems an easy case can be made that the United States has subjugated its own interests to those of Israel in the past.

Whether you agree or not, it is a discussion well worth having and one that should not be shut down before it can start by unfair accusations of "anti-Semitism." In a very equal sense, none of this is academic. The Israel lobby was overwhelmingly in favor of starting the war with Iraq and is now among the leading hawks on Iran.

To the extent that our interests do differ from those of Israel, the matter needs to be discussed calmly and fairly. This is not about conspiracies or plots or fantasies or anti-Semitism -- it's about rational discussion of American interests. And, in my case, being pro-Israel. I'm looking forward to hearing from all you nutjobs again.


http://www.workingforchange.com/printitem.cfm?itemid=20708

to know and call (here, pro-Israel) nutjobs _NUTJOBS_ when she sees them!

good grief I didn't know that Joe Lieberman a dual citizen as well as most of the current Admin

-Israel's inability first to admit the Palestinians have been treated unfairly and, second, to figure out what to do about it.-
Sorry Molly, it’s more like politics and policy have been split by psychopaths into a well organized effort to invert reality, making the Palestinians the ‘invaders aggressors and non people’ who, opposite the history, are the aggressors and criminal interlopers.

This is the primary focus of the energy and resources of this lobby.

==========================================
" The following post has status hidden:
Nope, Dog, you're misinformed
by autoblocked @Indybay • Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 8:24 AM "

EDITOR, what's the problem now??! Stop hiding my posts.

==========================================

Israel isn't completely innocent -- I'll grant you that much. But to try and depict the Israelis as the aggressors, non-people and invaders whereas the Palis are the sweet innocent victims, real people and natives is not only rather close to being reality inversion, but smacks of employing black-and-white thinking. Things are more complex than you currently care to admit.

Try as you might, you'll never be able to blow away the following historical facts:

1. Back in March 31 1977 a PLO Executive Committee member admitted there was no Palestinian people. (Now there is though).

2. British officials went on record several times prior to May 1948 reporting that tens of thousands of Arabs had infiltrated the Holy Land from Syria and Egypt. (In actuality the Arab migration into the land outnumbered the Jewish immigration.)

3. Palestinian "militants" have bragged many times of their acts of aggression. Not self defense acts.

4. While people like you would scream to high heaven if a Muslim holy site were slightly desecrated by Jews, you don't care a whit about how Rachel's Tomb and Joseph's Tomb have been repeatedly desecrated by Palestinian acts of violence, the former being repeatedly attacked by gunfire, Molotov cocktails and the latter ransacked and set ablaze.
Not to mention the *facts* that a pogrom was perpetrated in 1929 on the Jews in Hebron, that the disputed territories and E. Jerusalem were ethnically cleansed of Jews in 1948 (hence "Arab E. Jerusalem), and that Palestinian have usurped previously Jewish-owned property in the disputed territories.

How about letting the facts disturb you somewhat?

Well it seems to me as if you zionazis are being kicked into the dirt by other offended IMC readers.
Maybe you weasels should acquire a soul or die.

You could just go away.

"Weasel Weasel Weasel myah myah myah"

Yo, Palinazi, I'm waiting for you to reply to my question from yesterday: for far are you willing to go to eradicate us untermenschen? If YOU are NOT a weasel, why haven't you replied??

As for going away, I'll stay for the time being. At least as long as real humans, like Yid and Tia, remain here.

As for your fellow weasel crew Tia or Yid or any other one of your personality disorders...

How about begging for forgiveness?
I'll settle for that.

Molly Ivans writes: "The Israel lobby was overwhelmingly in favor of starting the war with Iraq and is now among the leading hawks on Iran. "

BECKY: Here are the facts: Iraq sent soldiers to fight against Jews in 1948, 1967, and 1973.
Iraq, under Saddam Hussein, had a declared war against Israel

Iraq sent 21 SCUD missiles to bomb Israel in 1991

Saddam Hussein regularly sent $25,000 checks to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers

Jews in Iraq were killed or persecuted so that in 1948 there were 150,000 Jews living in Iraq and by 2000, there were only 100.

Israel bombed Iraq's nuclear facilities in the '80's because they believed that Iraq would nuke them once they were built.

Conclusion: Israel had good reason to want to neutralize the threat that Iraq represented to the average Israeli.

Also: The US military commanders did not follow the advice of the IDF commanders, and made a mess of the military invasion.

Currently, Iran is threatening to "wipe Israel off the map" a fact that Ivans fails to reference. She acts like Israel is just paranoid over nothing, when the threat is quite real.

Also: about Ivans REPEATED charges that anyone who criticizes Israel ends up being called an anti-semite (she makes this single point EIGHT times in her short article) is a simplistic argument, and not true.

First, merely criticizing Israel does not make anyone an anti-semite. I don't know anyone who believe this.

Second, some people who are called "anti-semites" really ARE anti-semites

When the State of Israel is repeatedly picked out for criticism and villification, when similar or even more egregious acts are ignored in other countries, and when mitigating factors (such as Israel's efforts to build schools, clinics, homes, Universities, and hospitals for the Palestinians) are ignored....

When acts of violence against Israel are repeatedly justified as "legitimate resistance" even when they target innocent civilian populations...

When false reports are published and republished without the basic journalism of checking sources (such as 1500 killed in Jenin in 2002 when it was only 56)...

When "eyewitness reports" are faithfully reproduced without attempting to verify their accuracy.....

When any response from the Israeli govt. is greeted with derision regardless of the content....

THEN those persons can correctly be called anti-semites.

ABOUT MEARSHEIMER AND WALT: The reason their report has gotten so much opposition is that they falsely claim that the Israel lobby RUNS the US govt. foreign policy when this is clearly not the case.

Many, many organizations lobby Congress. All attempt to influence legislation. There is nothing inherently wrong with this. The fact that AIPAC is so successful appears to cause the ire. However, no one has given any evidence that AIPAC is coercing members of Congress, blackmailing them, or bribing them. Persuasion is not only allowed, but is the heart of democracy.

When Ms. BJ chimes in.

You just love making yourself look ignorant as well as a zionazi tool; don't you, Ms. BJ?
Saddam didn't do squat that the US didn't approve of including invading Kuwait.
Israel is the real threat with their renegade nuclear arsenal.
And your constant apology for Israeli massacres is pathetic.

Neither who has reposted Molly Ivins' excellent article, nor where they did it, has no effect whatsoever on how true it is. It's a syndicated article that has been reposted many times to many places.

See:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?N1C52590D

"Let's call the Israel lobby THE ISRAEL LOBBY" was not even the original title. Neither does the line appear in the article. Ergo, calling it that on this website is, disinformation by definition. If for no other reason than that, it should be removed from this site and replaced by the original, unaltered version. Disinformation has no place on Indymedia.

To read the original, click here, then scroll down to where it says "Archive: to see earlier columns" and select "TUESDAY, APRIL 25, 2006":

http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?next=2&ColumnsName=miv

That the version reposted here came from Duke's site indicates that in all likelihood it was reposted by Zionists, in a crude and all too common attempt to discredit both Ivins and LA-IMC. They do stuff like this a lot. They are fundamentally dishonest people because they have to be. There is no honest defense for ethnic cleansing.

True to the weaselry and reality inversion you complain about, you keep on avoiding the real topic with your nonsensical aspersions taken from your stale Marxist talking points. Though one novelty may be the innuendo that I'm identical with Yid and Tia. Or maybe you maintain I'm also Becky? You keep on mendaciously maligning her but you can't refute anything she says here.

You're too easy. So feebleminded... In a sense I think it's almost immoral to make fun of you because of that.


What's lost on me, however, is why an untermensch like myself should beg for forgiveness from a highly antisemitic Palinazi like you. How far would you go to eradicate me?

Zionazi is a much better meme.
It has that easy and graphic ring to it. Particularly when it is so accurate in the minds of a certain group of people who have grown into a culture of terror. Terror that has been conceived by the actions of another .., separate group of individuals who, from the beginning of the invasion of Palestine worked with and perhaps gave lessons to, the nazis.

All you're showing now is your ability to parrot your pro-Nazi friends perniciously odious lies that the Zionists collaborated with or even taught the Nazis something.

Besides, you'll never acknowledge that terror and violence were started by the Arab side at least as far back as 1920, not vice versa. That's why the Haganah was founded. That name means "defense" in the untermenschen's language.

Still waiting to hear, seriously now: how far would you go to eradicate me? Does that end justify every means to you?

It's not "odious lies." It's the thoroughly documented truth. Nazis and Zionists worked hand in glove as early as the 1930s.

Consider the case of Fieval Polkes:

"Von Bolschwing was deeply involved in intelligence work--and in the persecution of innocent people -- for most of his adult life. He had joined the Nazi party at the age of twenty-three, in 1932, and had become an SD (party security service) informer almost immediately. In the years leading up to 1939, von Bolschwing became a leading Nazi intelligence agent in the Middle East, where he worked under cover as an importer in Jerusalem. One of his first brushes with Nazi espionage work, according to captured SS records, was a role in creating a covert agreement between the Nazis and Fieval Polkes, a commander of the militant Zionist organization Haganah, whom von Bolschwing had met through business associates in the Mideast. Under the arrangement the Haganah was permitted to run recruiting and training camps for Jewish youth inside Germany. These young people, as well as certain other Jews driven out of Germany by the Nazis, were encouraged to emigrate to Palestine. Polkes and the Haganah, in return, agreed to provide the SS with intelligence about British affairs in Palestine. Captured German records claim that Polkes believed the increasingly brutal Nazi persecution of the Jews could be turned to Zionist advantage -- at least temporarily -- by compelling Jewish immigration to Palestine, and that the Haganah commander's sole source of income, moreover, was secret funds from the SS.

It was in the course of these negotiations that the young Baron von Bolschwing gained the trust of Adolf Eichmann, who was at the time an obscure SS functionary specializing in intelligence on Freemasonry and Jewish affairs for the Nazi party. The acquaintance was more than a casual one, for von Bolschwing went on to play a central role in arranging conferences between Eichmann and Polkes in Vienna and Cairo, contacts that established Eichmann as the SS's Jewish affairs expert and laid the foundation for his later career as the architect of the extermination of European Jewry.”

-- Blowback : America's Recruitment of Nazis and Its Effects on the Cold War by Christopher Simpson, ISBN: 1555841066, p 253

Simpson’s source on this is:

Sicherheitsdienst des RFSS SD-Hauptamt, Palastinareise Bericht (U.S. designation no. 173-b-16-14/61), now at Frames 2936012-2936068, microfilm roll 411, T-175, RG 242, NA, Washington, D.C.

* * * * *

After the war, von Bolschwing settled in California. He became a Republican Party activist and a personal friend of Richard Nixon. Among his other accomplishments, he perpetrated the single largest stock fraud in California’s history. He squirmed out of the charges when a patsy took the fall for him. Later he was partners in a defense electronics company called TCI with Iran-contra figures Richard Secord and (Iranian Jew) Albert Hakim.

What a guy, huh? For details, see:

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/mbtape11,22,81,520.htm

* * * * *

Then there was Menachem Begin, terrorist extrordinaire, who later was elected to the highest office in the land.

Before that, he waged war against Hitler enemies.

See:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/irgun.html

Irgun Zeva'i Le'umi
“The National Military Organization” (Etzel, I.Z.L.)

(snip)

From 1943 Etzel was headed by Menachem Begin. In February 1944, Etzel declared war against the British administration. It attacked and blew up government offices, military installations and police stations.

(snip)

* * * * *

Begin was not just a founding father of Israel, but also the butcher of Deir Yassin, Palestine’s very own Lidice:


See:

http://www.deiryassin.org/mas.html

(snip)

Early in the morning of Friday, April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun, headed by Menachem Begin, and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. It was several weeks before the end of the British Mandate. The village lay outside of the area that the United Nations recommended be included in a future Jewish State. Deir Yassin had a peaceful reputation and was even said by a Jewish newspaper to have driven out some Arab militants. But it was located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and one plan, kept secret until years afterwards, called for it to be destroyed and the residents evacuated to make way for a small airfield that would supply the beleaguered Jewish residents of Jerusalem.

By noon over 100 people, half of them women and children, had been systematically murdered. Four commandos died at the hands of resisting Palestinians using old Mausers and muskets. Twenty-five male villagers were loaded into trucks, paraded through the Zakhron Yosef quarter in Jerusalem, and then taken to a stone quarry along the road between Givat Shaul and Deir Yassin and shot to death. The remaining residents were driven to Arab East Jerusalem.

That evening the Irgunists and the Sternists escorted a party of foreign correspondents to a house at Givat Shaul, a nearby Jewish settlement founded in 1906. Over tea and cookies they amplified the details of the operation and justified it, saying Deir Yassin had become a concentration point for Arabs, including Syrians and Iraqis, planning to attack the western suburbs of Jerusalem. They said that 25 members of the Haganah militia had reinforced the attack and claimed that an Arabic-speaking Jew had warned the villagers over a loudspeaker from an armored car. This was duly reported in The New York Times on April 10.

A final body count of 254 was reported by The New York Times on April 13, a day after they were finally buried. By then the leaders of the Haganah had distanced themselves from having participated in the attack and issued a statement denouncing the dissidents of Irgun and the Stern Gang, just as they had after the attack on the King David Hotel in July 1946. A 1987 study undertaken by Birzeit University's Center for Research and Documentation of Palestinian Society found "the numbers of those killed does not exceed 120".

The Haganah leaders admitted that the massacre "disgraced the cause of Jewish fighters and dishonored Jewish arms and the Jewish flag." They played down the fact that their militia had reinforced the terrorists' attack, even though they did not participate in the barbarism and looting during the subsequent "mopping up" operations.

They also played down the fact that, in Begin's words, "Deir Yassin was captured with the knowledge of the Haganah and with the approval of its commander" as a part of its "plan for establishing an airfield."

Ben Gurion even sent an apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But this horrific act served the future State of Israel well. According to Begin, “Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe wild tales of ‘Irgun butchery,’ were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated.”

(snip)

Of about 144 houses, 10 were dynamited. The cemetery was later bulldozed and, like hundreds of other Palestinian villages to follow, Deir Yassin was wiped off the map. By September, Orthodox Jewish immigrants from Poland, Rumania, and Slovakia were settled there over the objections of Martin Buber, Cecil Roth and other Jewish leaders, who believed that the site of the massacre should be left uninhabited. The center of the village was renamed Givat Shaul Bet. As Jerusalem expanded, the land of Deir Yassin became part of the city and is now known simply as the area between Givat Shaul and the settlement of Har Nof on the western slopes of the mountain.

The massacre of Palestinians at Deir Yassin is one of the most significant events in 20th-century Palestinian and Israeli history. This is not because of its size or its brutality, but because it stands as the starkest early warning of a calculated depopulation of over 400 Arab villages and cities and the expulsion of over 700,000 Palestinian inhabitants to make room for survivors of the Holocaust and other Jews from the rest of the world.

(snip)


* * * * *

Then there was Yitzhak Shamir . . .


http://www.marxists.de/middleast/ironwall/15-shamir.htm

(snip)

Shamir’s Background

(snip)

. . . was born Yitzhak Yzernitzky, in Rozeny, in what is now Byelorussia, in 1915.

(snip)

Little is known of his Irgun career, but one incident stands out. In 1938 Yzernitzky and a 15-year-old recruit, Eliyahu Bet Zouri, tried to blow up a WZO defence fund collection booth which levied a toll on Jewish travellers leaving Tel Aviv. They planted a crude gunpowder bomb which went off prematurely, severely burning Bet Zouri’s legs and scorching the face of Israel’s future Prime Minister. But this bizarre incident was a mere nothing compared to his career as a leading figure in the “Stern Gang”.

(snip)

* * * * *

>a 15-year-old recruit,

Just in case you were wondering who first armed children in Palestine.

What? You're talking to me?
Piss off dickweed. This is not a discussion along chosen avenues of stupidity and lies.

You answer this question. Where the hell do you think you are?

I'll supply one answer. It's not a billboard for lying filth like your little weasel crew. Otherwise ,consider me part of the peanut gallery 'cause I'm *Awful glad* to be here to great each or any new package.

Now I suppose you'll tell me you don't like what I type.

:>)

Gosh, I should really address these muses of mine.

thanks again for the dig....' another Zionist lie '

Too afraid to answer my question. That makes you one heck of a grand weasel.

I do agree this "debate" shouldn't be held along your cherished lines of obnoxious lies and retardedness. Alas, I can't expect you to transcend or stray from them.

I've already told you, you'll have to learn -- for your own emotional well being -- to let go of feeling possessed about this site. It's not your property and your Palinazi ilk aren't the only beings who get to participate.

Oh, I alluded to your Nazi-loving friend and sure enough he came along dumping some of his favorite shit here. It proves nothing aside from the fact that one unimportant low-ranking idiot who happened to be a Zionist partially cooperated with the Nazis. But why would you let the truth get in the way of a good hate fest?

Well that was easy.

...what do you mean by property?
Hey. buddy, like I always say, you guys are so vulnerable to history and actions of your kind, that have resulted in sacrificing many for the corrupt few.

As you so well put it. Psychopaths.
You individuals are wide open to your own participation in the horror which was WWII. Why did your 'nation' have to kidnap Eiechmann?
Try him in a sound proof booth. Control the court ?

Give me a freaking break , little zionazi who is saying bad things about me...

*We* are vulnerable to history and our actions...? I just rolled on the floor laughing hysterically. Someone help me up to a chair please... The more you post, the more you demonstrate what a joke you really are by projecting your reality inversion onto us.

I'm damned sure you're dismayed that Israel dared kidnap Eichmann, tried and executed him.

Still waiting to hear, are all the means justified for your end of eradicating us untermenschen? Or does the question evoke guilt in you that you avoid a reply like the plague?

that was 'by' -snicker-

And there fore avoid exposing yet more documentation and research into Eichmann's collaboration with "Israel's" founders.
I though you were about to bless us ( me in particular ) with your absence.


Another mistake. :>)

In Israel they say instead, "transfering the Palistinians."

Either way, it's ethnic cleansing.

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/04/155235_comment.php#155371

That would be Hajj Amin al Husseini, who was given bureaucratic authority and a large budget by the British when they made him Mufti of Jerusalem in 1920, after Hajj Amin demonstrated that he could organize large-scale terrorist attacks against innocent Jews in British Mandate ‘Palestine.’ He used this power to organize another terrorist riot in 1921 (after which the British expanded his budget and bureaucratic authority), and then a much larger attack in 1929, followed by an even bigger attack in 1936-37 (this last one was called the ‘Arab Revolt’ and was organized with weapons provided by the Nazis). Each time, Hajj Amin’s attacks were against civilians, and they included, for example, such things as torturing Jewish children to death. In 1941 Hajj Amin met Hitler in Berlin. Hitler promised to conquer the Middle East and exterminate all the Jews living there, after which Hajj Amin would be installed as the local leader. Hajj Amin, for his part, immediately became one of the supreme leaders of the Final Solution in Europe, organizing large SS divisions in Bosnia composed of tens of thousands of Bosnian Muslim volunteers who carried out large-scale exterminations of Serbs, Jews, and Roma (gypsies) in Yugoslavia. He also played an important role in getting hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews sent to Auschwitz, and in speeding up the operation of the death camps. Yasser Arafat proudly explained to his Arab audiences that Hajj Amin was his mentor and hero.
]
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/151186_comment.php#155369


So what happened at Deir Yassin? Certainly, quite a few Arab civilians died (the best estimate puts the toll at 110, not 254), but they died during the course of the battle, and they were not targeted for destruction. On the contrary, efforts were made to warn them before the battle started. Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, gives the following account:

[Quote From Menachem Begin Starts Here]

. . .there is a moral aspect to the story of Dir Yassin. At that village, whose name was publicized throughout the world, both sides suffered heavy casualties. We had four killed and nearly forty wounded. The number of casualties was nearly forty per cent of the total number of the attackers. The Arab troops suffered casualties three times as heavy. The fighting was thus very severe. Yet the hostile propaganda, disseminated throughout the world, deliberately ignored the fact that the civilian population of Dir Yassin was actually given a warning by us before the battle began. One of our tenders carrying a loud speaker was stationed at the entrance to the village and it exhorted in Arabic all women, children and aged to leave their houses and to take shelter on the slope of the hill. By giving this humane warning our fighters threw away the element of complete surprise, and thus increased their own risk in the ensuing battle. A substantial number of the inhabitants obeyed the warning and they were unhurt. A few did not leave their stone houses -- perhaps because of the confusion. The fire of the enemy was murderous -- to which the number of our casualties bears eloquent testimony. Our men were compelled to fight for every house; to overcome the enemy they used large numbers of hand-grenades. And the civilians who had disregarded our warnings suffered inevitable casualties.

The education which we gave our soldiers throughout the years of revolt was based on the observance of the traditional laws of war. We never broke them unless the enemy first did so and thus forced us, in accordance with the accepted custom of war, to apply reprisals. I am convinced, too, that our officers and men wished to avoid a single unnecessary casualty in the Dir Yassin battle. But those who throw stones of denunciation at the conquerors of Dir Yassin would do well not to don the cloak of hypocrisy.


So ignore the man behind the curtain. Nessie 's wrong, he's wrong and nothings gona make him right.

It's bunk logic too. To eradicate is to murder, not dislocate a person.

Either way, "nessie" is a seasoned liar.

I know you'll ignore the hell out of it. But the truth is laid out here in plain sight for people who really want to know the facts unlike yourself.

Still waiting to hear, are all the means justified for your end of eradicating us untermenschen? Or does the question evoke guilt in you that you avoid a reply like the plague?

Why do you find it necessary to screw my sheep?

This is begging the question. It's not "untermenschen" thatwe want to eradicate, but colonialist aggression and racial supremicism.

I like my reply better.
Why IS antisemites R' us screwing my sheep?

Why is the Israel Lobby screwing the American taxpayer?

That's a great fallacy. Asking why a certain lobby "screws" the proverbial person when no such thing takes place is exemplary bunk logic.

that one sure comes in 'handy' don't it?
Poor thing..

:>)

What you want to eradicate is the Jewish state and independence, manifestations of "racial" equality (giving Jews parity in a national sense on the world's map) and a bulwark against religious based colonialist aggression and racial supremacism that seeks to deprive one nation of its right under the sun.

It's untermenschen like us that you want to eradicate if your racist wish to destroy Israel is realized.

Death to "nessie". This isn't a threat. It's a wish. I'm allowed to wish. Unlike you, I'm not even trying to determine for another group of people what they ought to do...

Concerning screwing of America by 'Israel'
-screws" the proverbial person-
that my little weasel is dependent upon where you call home.
No, actually a whole bunch of our best young are being written off by 'Israel' among others in these gulf wars,

Them ZZiiiiionists forced them Bush et. al to go to war in the Persian gulf in a nefarious plot to do away with lots of American boys, twice.

That you pee on so many of them with every fiber of your being for obeying the commander-in-chief and going out there is irrelevant, of course. I'll bet you also have accused Israel of malicious intent to murder all the sailors and personnel on the USS Liberty, findings of meticulous and impartial investigations be damned. As if you even care about those killed in that unfortunate incident except for using them as fodder against your pet object of hatred.

don't bring up the USS Liberty ambush,
By Israel.
I'm already pissed.

You're just too predictable, supposedly getting all upset over a bunch of US feds getting killed while spying is valuing the life of US government thugs over that of Palestinian non-combatants.

Considering what the NSA and CIA were doing at the time (June 1967) in Central and South America, Iran and SE Asia, the death of NSA agents at the time should be something someone like you should celebrate. NSA/CIA backing of Suharto at the exact time the USS Liberty thing was taking place resulted in the deaths of over a million Communists (your comrades!) and Labor Union members. NSA/CIA backing of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi in Iran resulted in untold numbers of deaths. Why should anyone like you mourn the death of NSA agents who were backing people like Anastasio Somoza Debayle in Nicaragua, Mobutu Sésé Seko in the DRC and dictator George Papadopoulos in Greece at the exact same time the ship was hit?

Furthermore, I'll bet that everytime someone brings up the Stark, you fall silent. And with good reason. After all, more US sailors were killed on the Stark but Liberty nutcase types like you never, ever bring it up. I wonder why none of you ever mention "Iraqi control" of the media or legislature to explain why there was never any action taken against Iraq about it? But when Israel enages in a similar act, its all chalked up to a vast "Zionist conspiracy".

-US feds getting killed while spying-
in international waters.
What a banal crock of shit from our 'staunch ally'.
Another false flag ( in unmarked attack jets ) black ops to implicate Egypt, is more likely.

"The massacre of Palestinians at Deir Yassin is one of the most significant events in 20th-century Palestinian and Israeli history. This is not because of its size or its brutality, but because it stands as the starkest early warning of a calculated depopulation of over 400 Arab villages and cities and the expulsion of over 700,000 Palestinian inhabitants to make room for survivors of the Holocaust and other Jews from the rest of the world."

BECKY: There were no "Palestinians" in Deir Yassin. In 1948, Palestinian Arabs called themselves "Arabs".

It IS the most significant, since Arab vs Arab massacres are a dime a dozen, but an ISRAELI massacre is a rare and precious thing!! Witness the lack of press given to 400,000 murdered in Sudan and 2 million displaced persons in the last two years vs. the massive press about 5000 deaths (on both sides) and 8,000 JEWS displaced in the last 6 years in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Here at Indymedia the "crimes" of the Israelis are front and center. Sudan is a mere afterthought.

The Palestinian Arabs were not expelled in 1948. They fled on the advice of their own Arab leaders.

Israel begged the Arabs to stay and build the new Jewish state with them. 10% of the Arabs stayed put, and nothing bad happened to them. they are now Israeli citizens with full rights.

UNRWA initially reported 420,000 refugees, but later opened up the roles to any Arab who applied for benefits. the number soon jumped to 650,000 refugees.

Israel re-unified 170,000 of these Arab refugees.

Only about 110 Arabs were killed in Deir Yassin. Iraqi soldiers quartered there included some who were disguised as women. Photos taken after the fighting/massacre showed dead bodies which appeared to be women but were in fact Iraqi soldiers.

there is a dispute as to whether the Irgun warned the villagers. One report says that they urged villagers to flee with a loudspeaker. Another report says that the speaker got stuck in a ditch and was unusable.

In either case, the POLICY of the Irgun was to warn the villagers. There is no dispute that the Irgun did not surround the village, but left an escape passage out the back end---so that most of the villagers DID escape.

The hostile Arab press fabricated accounts of Deir Yassin, by exagerrating both the death count, falsely reported that the Irgun fighters raped women, and downplayed the strategic nature of the village (overlooking the road between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem).

These Arab leaders hoped to encourage the Arabs to flee by these reports, and to outrage the Arab soldiers into more righteously attacking the Israelis. This policy backfired.

It DID encourage the Arab migration, but it did not encourage the Arab warriors. It frightened them, and gave an advantage to the Israeli troops who were badly outnumbered and outgunned in April of 1948.

I notice this writer fails to mention that 78 doctors and nurses headed to Mt. Scopus were murdered on that road right afterwards.

Some have said that the events of 1948 were miraculous.
How could the Jews not only defend themselves from attackers who outnumbered them in the beginning at 10 to 1 odds? They not only survived the attacks, but actually gained ground?

>What you want to eradicate is the Jewish state ,

That's absolutely right. We want to eradicate the Jewish state for the very same reason we wanted to eradicate the Aryan state. Both, by definition, are constitute racist enterprises. Ergo, the only moral response is to eradicate both, and anything else like them that appears anywhere on earth. Zero tolerance is the only solution, practical or moral. And it's not like humanity doesn't know this, either. The various holocausts perpetrated by the Aryan state were a lesson to all. Now we know. This is what happens when the world tolerates ethnic supremicism. Never again. Give 'em what they deserve.


>manifestations of "racial" equality (giving Jews parity in a national sense on the world's map)

A racist state is no manifestation of racial equality. It's a manifestation of racial supremicism. It's proponents will tell you otherwise for exactly the same reason that the proponents of the Aryan state told the world that it was Poland, not not them, who started the war, i.e., they think you're stupid enough to fall for it. Don't. It's what they call in the trade a "big lie." A big lie is much more likely to be believed than a small lie, but it's still a lie. Don't believe it.



>seeks to deprive one nation of its right under the sun.

This is begging the question. It has no right right to exist. No nation does. Nations do not exist by right, but by force of arms.


>Death to "nessie". This isn't a threat.

It's not a *credible* threat, anyway. If it was, it would have been acted upon already. After all, they've been threatening to "crush my skull," etc., for years, and nothing has ever come of it. They're just trying to intimidate me with a lot of hot air. It's not working.

Very little else that Zionist's say is credible, either. Only fools still take them at their word. They are fundamentally dishonest people, who lie and forge routinely. And that's their good side. When that doesn't work, they try to intimidate. When that doesn't work, they kill people.

They haven't killed me yet for one reason and one reason only. I'm an American on American soil. It would make them look really bad in front of Americans to be seen murdering Americans in America with the same impunity that they murder Palestinians in Palestine.

Zionists really need to look good in front of Americans, because without American tax payers money, Israel is not viable. If they start murdering their critics over here, the rest of the Americans would take offense. If I was in Palestine, the Zionists would kill me in minute, and most Americans wouldn't even get upset, because Americans know little, and care less, about what happens overseas. They don't think it matters what happens to people outside of America, except in so far as it directly impacts them personally, like for instance at the gas pump

But if the Zionists murdered an American on American soil, just because he speaks out against Israel, it would be a public relations disaster. Americans believe strongly in the right to speak their minds. They would be furious if Israeli hit squads were seen to be acting here. Whatever damage I am doing to Zionist cause by my work on Indymedia -- and I must be doing some, or they wouldn't have mounted such an energetic smear campaign against me -- would pale next to the public relations nightmare that murdering me on American me would do. These people are evil, but they aren't fools.

So as long as I stay out of Palestine, I will never be "extra-judiciously executed," at least not on orders from the Mossad. There is, of course, always the off chance that some deranged, lone nut, individual Zionist will try to whack me, not on orders from the Mossad, but on his or her own initiative. Not to worry. I'm prepared for that, and in more ways than one. So, no, the possibility does *not* intimidate me into silence. Au contrair, it motivates me to do even more to destroy the sick, evil racist atrocity that is Zionism in general, and the state of Israel in particular. The more often the Zionist propaganda mill threatens my life, tells lies about me and forges my name to things I didn't say, the greater is my motivation to fight them even harder.

It was not enough that the Aryan state was destroyed. The Jewish state must be destroyed, too, not because it is Jewish, but because it is ethnic. A Hutu state, for example, would be no better. The idea on which the Aryan state was based, survived WWII and has metastasized. Despite Nazi propaganda to the contrary, it was never specific to Aryans. Any ambitious and enterprising gang of racists, from any ethnic group on the planet, can adopt and employ the ideology of ethnic supremicism. Of all those who have, only the Zionists have a nuclear arsenal within range of hundreds of cities and two thirds of the world's energy supply. That makes them by far the most dangerous and therefore the one that most needs to be eliminated. Zionists are not, per se, any more evil than Nazis, Klansmen, Chetniks or the Interahamwe. They're just more dangerous, that all. But that's enough. That's more than enough. These people are a threat to more than just the long suffering neighbors upon whom they prey for a living. They are a threat to more than regional stability. They are a threat to world peace and to the global economy. As long as the Zionist movement holds a nuclear gun to the world's head, we are all their hostages. This not an acceptable situation. Neither is it sustainable.

Zionists are also evil. The very existence of their racist state is an open and festering wound on the face of humanity's honor. Those who do evil in this world are no worse than those who stand aside, watch, but do nothing to stop them. Until the rest of the world says enough is enough, and puts a stop to the evil of ethnic supremicism, wherever it springs up, we're as guilty as they are. And until we disarm Israel, we will never be safe.

So, death to the Zionist entity. Globalize the Intifada. Smash colonialism everywhere. No more empires.

Dear Indy media nazi scumbags.......Eat shit and die.

NESSIE WRITES: "The Jewish state must be destroyed, too, not because it is Jewish, but because it is ethnic. "

BECKY: I'm sorry you think I am a liar. I'm surprised you think I am evil. Evil and good are decidedly religious philosophies.

Sweden is a Lutheran state. Look it up. The Lutheran church is the national religion and churches are paid for and operated with govt. funds. Yet I don't see you advocating to destroy Sweden.

The Vatican is clearly a religious state that controls a million of its followers. I don't hear you advocating the destruction of the Vatican.

Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state. that makes sense. Islam was born on the Arabian peninsula by Arabs. It is illegal to possess a Bible in the entire country. But then you are not a guardian of religious freedom, are you? Only SOME books are defended from book-burnings. Otherwise we might see you condemning the Saudis on these pages or back home up in SF where we should all be having this discussion----except for the Indybay censors with the big red switch.

Nessie--you have some serious holes in your logic. And I don't care much for the way you advocate censorship all the time.

and is ignored and dismissed. LOL

An ad hominem is not a rebuttal. It's a way to change the subject. In other words, they are trying to distract you.


>ignored and dismissed

Hardly. Elements of the Zionist propaganda mill take me *very* seriously. That's why they have mounted, and continue to wage, such an extensive smear campaign against me. Their responses, especially the lies and the forgeries, are living proof that I'm doing something right. If I wasn't having the desired effect, they wouldn't be responding, let alone mounting a smear campaign. They would be ignoring me. You can see for yourselves that they are not. Even "nessie stomper" can't ignore what I'm saying. To claim otherwise is a self evident lie. Google "nessie stomper Indymedia" and see for yourselves.


>Sweden is a Lutheran state. Look it up. The Lutheran church is the national religion and churches are paid for and operated with govt. funds. Yet I don't see you advocating to destroy Sweden.

(1.) She's not paying enough attention. As anyone who follows my work knows, I'm an anarchist. I call for for an end to *all* states. I do it repeatedly. I have been doing it for decades. Zionists don't notice because only Israel and its critics warrant their attention. Everything else goes right by them.

(2.) You don't have to be an ethnic Swede to become a citizen of the country. All Swedish citizens have the same rights and responsibilities, whatever their religion or ethnicity.

(3.) The modern Swedish state evolved from previous political entities that coexisted, cooperated and competed on the same territory. It is indigenous to what is now Sweden. The state of Israel is the creation of invading colonialists from other continents.


>The Vatican is clearly a religious state that controls a million of its followers. I don't hear you advocating the destruction of the Vatican.

Again, she's not paying enough attention. I have been a harsh critic of the Vatican since before Indymedia even existed.

For example, see:

http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/26.html



>Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state. that makes sense.

No it doesn't. What makes sense is that all states, religious, ethnic or whatever, cease to be believed in by ordinary people. Belief in nation states is not an act of reason, but of irrationality. Reason and belief are antithetical. The nation state exists only in the minds of those who believe. They're an article of faith, nothing more. Belief in nation states defies reason, because what they do, i.e., wage war, extort labor, restrict liberty, smother social progress, and sell what basses for justice to the highest bidders, are not reasonable behaviors. It is even less reasonable to tolerate, let alone personally submit to, such behavior. Submission to the nation state stems, not from reason, but from emotion, primarily fear. This is because nation states are intrinsically oppressive organizations who exist by using terror to enforce compliance. Remember when you were a kid, and the schoolyard bullies shook you down for your lunch money? They grew up.


> It is illegal to possess a Bible in the entire country. But then you are not a guardian of religious freedom, are you?

This is kindergarten logic. I'm not a Saudi. I have nothing to do with their crimes. I don't even buy their oil. I sure as h*ll don't take their orders, and I have *never* said a kind word about them. Au contrair.

Personally, I'll be glad when the people of Arabia finally come to their senses and stack al-Saud heads in piles too high to see over, even if you stand on a chair. Death to the all the ruling class, no matter what land they infest.


>Otherwise we might see you condemning the Saudis

Zionists never notice when I condemn anybody else except Israel, because they are paying attention. Why not? They simply don't *care* about anything else. To them, only Israel matters.

But in any event, whether or not I condemn anybody else has no bearing whatsoever on how true what I say about Israel is. It is completely and totally irrelevant. In other words, talking about it is yet another distraction. The Zionists don't want you to think about how evil the racist atrocity that is Israel is. They want you to think about something else, anything else, preferably someone who is (allegedly) doing something that is (allegedly) worse.

This bunk logic. Don't fall for it. It's an ad hominem tu quoque. Like any ad hominem, it's not a rebuttal. It's just a way to change the subject.

Besides, even though other people do evil, that doesn't excuse the evil that is Zionism, any more than the evil that was Stalinism excused the evil that was Hitlerism. If “they do it, too” were a valid excuse, Hitler would be off the hook for killing those six million Jews, because Stalin killed six million Ukrainians.


>SF where we should all be having this discussion

We shouldn't be having this discussion anywhere on Indymedia. To do so, to allow Zionists to use Indymedia bandwidth at all, implies that IMC imparts some degree legitimacy to the Zionist case. It's like holding a discussion with Klansmen or Nazis. The very act serves to enable the racist cause, just by giving them a soapbox.

Besides, there is nothing to discuss. Ethnic supremicism is evil. We are going to stamp it out, by any means necessary. The same goes for all colonialism, all empirialism, all oppression, everywhere. No amount of discussion is going to change our minds or prevent the inevitable.

It is not enough to destroy the Aryan state. It is not enough to destroy the Jewish state. It is not enough to destroy the ethnic state. For peace and justice to prevail, we must destroy the state itself, period. What kind of state it is doesn't matter. They are all evil. Smash them all.


>you have some serious holes in your logic.

Perhaps, but the Zionist propaganda mill has failed to find any. They say they do, but but they don't. Saying they do does not make it true.



>And I don't care much for the way you advocate censorship all the time.

(1.) The feelings of racist oppressors don't factor in. If we did *anything at all* to make racists oppressors feel good about anything, we would be morally remiss.

(2.) It's not censorship. It's editing. For Indymedia to be credible as a source of information, and for IMCistas to be credible ad Global Justice Activists, Indymedia must not be seen to be a vehicle for racists to use to distribute their propaganda. The same goes for war mongers, misogynists, homophobes, apologists for ecocide and exploitation, and all the other enemies of Global Justice, too. A single instance of enemy propaganda, anywhere on the Indymedia network, calls into question the credibility of every IMC, and the righteousness of every IMCista.

The only solution is zero tolerance. Zero tolerance is the only solution. Edit it all out, every last word of it.

But if the Zionists murdered an American on American soil, just because he speaks out against Israel, it would be a public relations disaster.

Accidents happen. Its unfortunate, but accidents happen every day. (I'm kidding. thats not a threat, thinly "hagibed" or otherwise)

Americans believe strongly in the right to speak their minds.

Except on Indymedia, which must be carefully monitored for any deviation from the party line.

Whatever damage I am doing to Zionist cause by my work on Indymedia -- and I must be doing some, or they wouldn't have mounted such an energetic smear campaign against me --

Oh, give me a break. Thats an awful lot of ego to cram into such a decreipt body. No one gives you a moment's thought- no one takes you seriously at all. Not in Ameica, not in Israel, and certainly not outside your limited social circle. You are just another impotent windbag...you are a source of amusement and nothing else.

Yeah, and ad hominim is not a rebuttal, and its not like me to cram a bunch of them into one post, but hell, you are just laughable.

I'll be nice again tomorrow.

nessie pisses you off.
You spend so much time and energy with the forgeries.
good for him.
I personally appreciate his historical digs,

Uh...there is more than one Zionist on this thread.
No forgeries, here.
Nice try, though
I'm an American woman. He's (I think) an Israeli guy.
But believe any myths that keep you happy.
Are you Nessie? Are you JA? Is there more than one anti-semitic race baiter on this site?
Nessie "knows" me. I've visited him. I'll visit him again. I'm not afraid of him or his firearms.

>Accidents happen. Its unfortunate, but accidents happen every day. (I'm kidding. thats not a threat, thinly "hagibed" or otherwise)


Zionists talk like gangsters because that's exactly what they are.



>on Indymedia, which must be carefully monitored for any deviation from the party line.

Speech is free. Bandwidth is not. The racists always have the option of paying to distribute their vile spew on their own bandwidth. Instead, they barge in and attempt to appropriate for themselves other people's bandwidth, just like they appropriate other people's land, water, houses and orchards. It is in their nature to steal from others because stealing from others is what Zionism is all about. First they stole Palestine. Now they are trying to steal Indymedia. How typical.


>No one gives you a moment's thought- no one takes you seriously at all.

This is a transparent lie. Tia herself takes me seriously enough to address me repeatedly. If she wasn't afraid that people were taking what I say seriously, she wouldn't bother to try to discredit me. None of them would.

Yet certain people apparently take me very seriously, seriously enough to mount a campaign of lies and forgery against me of considerable magnitude. To get an idea of what magnitude, Google "nessie indymedia" and take a look. Remember, anything signed "nessie" can only be counted on to have been actually posted by me, if it appears on SF-IMC. The rest are "black propaganda". That these people feel so threatened by what I am doing that they are willing to go to these lengths to try to counteract it, is all the proof I need to know I'm doing the right thing and I'm doing it the right way.

And so I intend to continue, unless and until these racist, gangster thugs arrange for me to have one of those "unfortunate accidents" that we hear about so often. True, my death will scare a few cowards away from the anti-Zionist cause. That can't be helped. But far more people will, out of shear indignation and righteous anger, be motivated to join. So even my death will help the cause. So, in effect, I have them in a double bind. If they kill me, it will hurt them in one way. If they let me live, it will hurt them in another. Ha, ha, ha. Joke's on them.

And I'm not alone, either. Every day that passes, these arrogant hoodlums have more and more enemies. Join us. Be their enemy, too. Don't let a bunch of gangster goons and bullies scare you away. Stand up to them. Stand up for what you know is right, i.e., a single, secular, egalitarian society in which it doesn't matter whom your mother was or what name, if any, you use for deity.

No more appeasement. Stand up and fight back. History is abundantly clear: Bullies wont go away till their chased. So chase them. Be not afraid. Be strong. Be righteous. Be tenacious. Fight, fight and fight some more. Fight until the back of ethnic supremacy is broken forever. Never give up. Never.

Tia herself takes me seriously enough to address me repeatedly.

Nah...just bored. Like you, probably. (unlike you, I have no delusions of my personal grandeur or importance)

And I'm not alone, either. Every day that passes, these arrogant hoodlums have more and more enemies.

Quite the opposite. I do alot of work "on the street" . I've seen my side grow- while the "other" side loses stream. Look at how the numbers decrease in the "organized" anti-Israel rallies. Look how the numbers increase in the counter protests. Look how Indymedia tries to concel this fact.
Israel enjoys support, on the streets, in the government and in the hearts and minds of the people. And all your efforts, Nessie are sound and fury....you now the rest.

In her town, maybe. Not in the world. In the world, Israel's friends are evaporating like the morning dew. Billions of people hate people like Tia. Every day there are more of us.

Perhaps. It is true that anti-semitic incidents are growing throughout the world. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that there are over a billion and a quarter Muslims in the world, as compared with 16 million Jews. 56 Muslim States. 22 Arab Muslim States. 1 Jewish State.

"anti-semitic incidents are growing throughout the world."

It's you Zionist fucks who are the reason.

you fuckers.. cut it out.

You see, we've got at least 3 of them, including Meyer London who used the politically correct label "Zionist" to designate the Jewishness of the judge and prosecutor in the Rosenbergs' case. Then there's one anonymouse of the "12 tribes of Judea" fame who may have retired but may still be lurking here.

And there are more "Zionists" present here than just you (Tia) and I. Count in Yid and Becky at least.

Idiots might come away thinking the above antisemite is now an expert on the causes of antisemitism.

These incidents occur even in countries and areas with a miniscule Jewish presense, like Poland.
Rabid haters like yourself are the reason for the increasing antisemitic incidents. The difference is you personally confine yourself to poisoning the atmosphere by rambling in cyber whereas the hooligans who go out and commit the violence may be reading your dumbfucked ravings. Period.

like crows in the battlefield.
Making ugly noises as they fight over the reeking carnage.
Their calls sound like 'anti-semites'

Nice try at hate poetry, though the meter is off for haiku.

I use the term anti-semite very sparingly, although, as they say, if the shoe fits.....

The debate about whether or not anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism is still with us. It won't go away because the underlying issues do not go away: Israel still exists as a Jewish state, anti-Semitism still exists, criticism of Israel still exists and will continue to exist and anti-Zionism still exists. The debate is renewed every time there is a fresh critique of Israeli policy, such as the infamous Walt and Mearsheimer "study" of "The Israel Lobby."
Critiques of Israel can be divided into several categories. The most important are:

1. Legitimate Criticism - Critiques of Israeli policy that do not question Israel's right to exist, and do not attribute the existence of Israel or its success to a Jewish cabal. These are not anti-Zionist, and are not anti-Semitic. For example, it should possible to debate whether or not Israel should leave the West Bank and Gaza without being called an anti-Semite or a traitor or a "Fascist," as long as the debate does not involve extraneous issues. Similarly it should be possible to debate the wisdom of IDF policy at check points or the need for the security fence.

2. Non-legitimate Criticism - Critiques of Israeli policy that hold Israel to higher standards than others may or may not be legitimate. In the same way, there are many who criticize US policies but ignore violations of human rights by European countries or African and Asian countries. That may be illogical and wrong, but it is not anti-Semitic if Israel is not singled out, alone among all nations.
Not along ago, Phylis Chesler published a book on "The New Anti-Semitism." Part of her thesis seems to be that the double standard is intrinsically anti-Semitic:


What's new is that this hatred has, incredibly, been embraced and romanticized by Western liberals, public intellectuals, Nobel Prize winners, all manner of so-called progressives and activists and, to a great extent, by the presumably objective media. The educated elites claim that they do not in fact hate Jews. How can they — the noblest among the "politically correct" — be racists? They loathe racism — except, of course, where Jews are concerned.

What's new is that Jew-hatred (disguised as anti-Zionism) has itself become "politically correct" among these so-called intellectuals. They have one standard for Israel: an impossibly high one. Meanwhile, they set a much lower standard for every other country, even for nations in which tyranny, torture, honor killings, genocide, and every other human rights abuse go unchallenged.



We would have to agree with this idea if indeed these intellectuals singled out Israel, but in fact, they usually make the same sort of discriminatory criticisms of the United States and Britain.

3. Critique of policy that lapses into anti-Zionism - If someone says that the settlements in the West Bank are immoral and then says that the West Bank settlements are the same as Zionist settlement of Palestine and land purchases in the 1920s then the criticism has lapsed into anti-Zionism because, obviously, one has to allow the legitimacy of at least some Jewish settlement at some time if you allow the legitimacy of Zionism. Anti-Zionism is not necessarily anti-Semitic in intent, especially since there are anti-Zionist Jews, but it is anti-Semitic in principle, because it insists that Jews do not have the same rights as other peoples. This is more or less the logic behind John L Strawson's conclusion that anti-Zionism generally amounts to anti-Semitism even if they are not identical:


While there are honorable Anti-Zionist positions they are few. On the whole Ant-Zionism is close to, or a mask for, Anti-Semitism.


4 Critique of policy that is motivated by anti-Zionism - For example, the motive of people who instigate the boycott Israel initiative is clearly not to change Israeli policies, but to eliminate the state of Israel. Thus, leaders of a boycott Israel meeting had this to say:


"We must understand that occ