Israel's Silent Holocaust Against the Palestinians

http://www.umkahlil.blogspot.com/

by Khalid Amayreh

Occupied Jerusalem: 25 April

While Israel commemorated the “holocaust” on 25 April, the Israeli state, through its army, paramilitary police forces and armed settlers were carrying out a silent genocide against the helpless Palestinian people, aimed primarily at killing, maiming and tormenting as many Palestinians as the “current international atmosphere” would allow.

This genocidal onslaught, while slow in motion and lacks the melodrama of a news-breaking huge slaughter, is non the less pushing millions of innocent men, women and children to the brink of disaster.

Indeed, the Israeli occupation army, a Jewish Wehrmacht by every conceivable standard, continues to kill and maim an average of ten Palestinians per day. Thus, since the beginning of April, the Judeo-Nazi army murdered as many as 35 Palestinians and badly wounded over sixty others.

In addition to the dead, there are numerous other Palestinians who lose their eyes, or vital organs of their bodies and become physically disabled for the rest of their lives, thanks to Israel’s random and indifferent bullets.

In fact, the all-out Israeli onslaught against the Palestinian society endangers the personal safety of every Palestinians from the nursery children to college students to teachers and hospital workers and the ordinary people in the streets. It is an open asymmetrical war on a civilian population for no reason other than them being non-Jews.

In other words, the Palestinians are being targeted and killed and savaged and brutalized, not for what they do, but for who they are.

The killing and maiming, non the less, are but a small part of what Israel is doing to the Palestinians amid a deafening silence by western countries, including Europe and the US, and nearly total impotence from Arab countries.

Some people, especially in the West, might instinctively dismiss the Nazi epithets describing Israel’s criminal practices against the Palestinians.

However, an honest appreciation of what is happening in the West Bank and Gaza these days leave no doubt as to the genocidal nature of Israel’s systematic reign of terror against the Palestinians.

To begin with, the Israeli army is besieging nearly all Palestinian population centers, including villages and refugee camps, preventing Palestinians from accessing work and food, not only in Israel proper, but also in neighboring Palestinian areas.

For example, Palestinians living in the northern West Bank, like Jenin for example, are barred from traveling southward to Ramallah.

This means that Palestinian farmers in the northern region of the West Bank can’t market their agricultural produces in the rest of the West Bank. In other words, these poor farmers will lose the source of their livelihood and ultimately join the swelling ranks of the poor..

Similarly, Palestinians living in the northern Jordan Valley are not allowed to travel outside their immediate places of residence and those succeeding in leaving won’t be allowed to return homes.

This dire situation made a Palestinian health official warn of an imminent health disaster in the area because Israel bars Palestinian health agencies and personnel from accessing the region.

Last month, the Israeli occupation army turn the so-called Qalandia Checkpoint into an “international border-crossing.” The same has been done with the Z’atra checkpoint outside Nablus, and more of the same is in the offing.

These are not security measures as Israel would want to believe. This is a well-thought plan intended to turn Palestinian population centers into miserable and hapless detention camps that bear a striking similarity to Nazi detention camps with the only difference being the absence of ovens and gas chambers.

However, people are made to suffer and are killed without ovens and gas chambers.

Palestinian homes and neighborhoods are raided in the quiet hours before dawn on a daily basis by Gestapo-like Israeli soldiers, many of them come from Jewish settlements in the West Bank.

And during a given raid, the Jewish savages terrorize children, beat husbands before their wives and children and deliberately vandalize property, including TV appliances, and provocatively mix food stuff , like sugar and salt, in order to make it unusable.

Moreover, the mass arrest of Palestinian youths is no longer security-related as Israel was claiming until recently. Now, young men, between the age of 15 and 45, are detained for many months and years for the sole purpose of impoverishing their families and weakening societal productivity and economic viability.

Needless to say, the arrest and indefinite incarceration of Palestinian breadwinners, without charge or trial, will have harsh consequences on their families who would be forced to seek food from the already bankrupt charities, exhausted by sweeping American and European sanctions.

This sinister coercion and savaging of an entire society can only push people to the edge and convince them that the way of suicide bombing is the right path. How else people facing such circumstances would think?

This is not all. The Israeli state has decided of late to withhold all Palestinian tax money (I am talking about hundreds of millions of dollars), which makes it impossible for the Palestinian government to pay salaries for over 150,000 Palestinian public employees and civil servants. Needless to say, up to one third of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza depend for their income and livelihood on these meager salaries which average no more than $500 per month.

This sweeping, collective punishment of the Palestinian people for exercising their democratic right and electing the Hamas movement should be viewed as no less than a crime against humanity.

This is exactly what Third Reich and Nazism did to their victims. They starved them to death. And Israel is doing the same thing, although not as brazenly.

Europeans and Americans! Don’t raise your eyebrows too much. Israel is behaving like the Nazis. Israel is closing our towns, preventing us from traveling within our own country and moving from one city to the other, preventing us from accessing work, preventing us from importing and exporting vital commodities, and hunting us down with helicopter gunship and Abram tanks as is the case in northern Gaza. Don’t your envoys and ambassadors and other observers communicate to you what is happening here?

Well, if they don’t, it is a calamity, and if they do, and you ignore their reports, it is even a greater calamity.

Or should the Arabs and Muslims in our part of the world put their trust only Osama Ben Laden and Abu Mus’ab Zarqawi?

We are blaming you because it was you who created Israel in the first place, by superimposing it upon us, as if we were children of a lesser God.

It is therefore your responsibility to see to it that your brat doesn’t metamorphose into a fully-fledged Nazi monster.

Apparently this monstrously racist piece of excrement is being spammed across the IMC network, so I'm reposting my comment from Indybay here.
BTW, I've since found out that the author is female and has no guts to have my comment display on her blog. Well, even if she and Indybay won't allow my comment to stand, at least this site will. The truth needs to be heard; this shit cannot go unopposed.
__________________________________________


Couldn't avoid commenting on this gem by the sleazeball excuse for an author who penned this piece of racist hatist filth:

"This sweeping, collective punishment of the Palestinian people for exercising their democratic right and electing the Hamas movement should be viewed as no less than a crime against humanity.

"This is exactly what Third Reich and Nazism did to their victims. They starved them to death. And Israel is doing the same thing,"

This Palinazi Jerkoff -- who, along with his fellow Palis, the majority of voters in the last election, expressed his support for Nazi forms of dealing with the Israeli Jews by knowingly voting a quasi-Nazi party into power -- dares to conflate Israel's reaction to the result of his electing his favorite paliNazi party with punishing a people for conducting democratic elections, even though Israel has made arrangements to have humanitarian assistance get to needy Palis. Never mind that he and his fellow rabid loonies advocate, even if only covertly, some heinous forms of collective punishment for the Jewish populace for even daring to live in his Greater "Palestine".

Just like a boringly typical passive-aggressive Palestinian crybaby, he's elevated the art of high-pitched whining to a form of fine art. He doesn't realize that his choices have consequences, so he doesn't take any responsibility for them. Voting a quasi-Nazi party into power incurs an unpleasant reaction by the state you're effectively wishing to destroy, even when Palestinians do it.
Seems like he can dish out harsh treatment, but he can't take it!

... deep behind enemy lines, keyboard ready, waiting to launch another salvo of distain towards the victims of his valued enterprise.
Wrapped in thick coverings of Jewishness while operating a high volume/amplitude propaganda, diatribe at the touch of a raw nerve.
And there are so many of them.
Like the Israeli meddling into the affairs of other countries.
Also like the raw and naked brutality towards the Palestinian population ( and yes, we all know you would prefer to use bland descriptions for murder, and theft and deliberate ethnic punishments which recount nazi practices with the addition of some recent zionist improvements ) leaving it obvious to even the toadys of the UN to condemn them numerous times for horrific crimes. Almost as many times as their sponsor, the US.

I'll take at least a pinch of any of your criticism seriously if you stop being such a hyperbolic, inflammatory, one-sided bullshitting lying cheerleader for everything reactionary and anti-peace the Palestinians are and do. Protest all you wish, the vast majority of Jews look in contempt on the grovelling behavior your pet NK Jews exhibit toward every single Muslim force with an agenda to eradicate Israel. They willingly submit to being considered untermenschen just as you'd like all the rest of all to be, hence your obvious affection for them and disdain for all other Jews as corruptors of the pure Jewishness in your perception, for having dared to respond with some harsh measures to ensure the maximum safety possible for all Israeli citizens.
You'd inspire Orwell's awe as a living example of rabid anti-Israel newspeak.

-pet NK Jews-

please explain. I have no pet Jews. Or Palestinians, for that matter.
I have a cat. A fat grey one.

"Genocide"? Do these people even understand what the word means? It seems that its just people misusing big words that they don't really understand for emotional propaganda impact. Its also offensive to peoples that have experienced actual genocide.

One of the great myths of the Palestinians is that their issues but only their issues are some how central to the world scene. Just how very arrogant!

How belittling is the Palestinian use of the word "genocide" when the Fur peope are actually experiencing real genocide!

Genocide

Genocide is defined by the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG) article 2 as any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: "Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

So quit telling us you don't understand the definition. It's what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians.

ethnic cleansing, because that's what it is.

The only problem is you and your cohorts are lying as the Israelis are not doing it to the Palestinians.

Genocide

Genocide is defined by the Convention on the Prevention ...yada yada yada.....

No, No , No and No.
And here's why.... (From Becky Johnson's orginial post)

Israel has supplied food, water, medicine, paid health care, sewer services, electricity, schools, health clinics, hospitals, Universities, and a sports stadium to the Palestinians.
Israel built 166 medical clinics for the Palestinians and provided universal health insurance for the Palestinians until 1994 when civil authority was transferred to the PA. (source: <http://www.hrw.org/wr2k>)

The birth rate in Gaza (ranked 26 in the world)
39.45 births/1,000 population (2006 est.)
<http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/gz.html>

The birth rate in the West Bank (ranked 51 in the world)
31.67 births/1,000 population (2006 est.)
<http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/we.html>

Life expectancy at Birth in Gaza: (ranked 117)
total population: 71.97 years

Life expectancy at Birth in the West Bank: (ranked 98)
total population: 73.27 years
(for reference- the US is ranked 48)

The infant mortality rate among the Palestinians was 8.3 per 1,000 live births in 2004. (source: <http://www.palestinemonitor.org>)

The infant mortality rate in 1967, when Israel took over the West Bank and Gaza was 170 per 1,000 live births. (source: <http://www.middleeastfacts.com>)

No surprise that the zionazi patrol came wandering by on its police rounds, making sure no one is allowed to express the idea that the victims of one holocaust are the perpetrators of another.

"No surprise that the zionazi patrol came wandering by on its police rounds, making sure no one is allowed to express the idea that the victims of one holocaust are the perpetrators of another."

No, you can express whatever conclusions you come to, we're just giving the facts and proving you wrong. Thanks for the great response from Becky, btw, I really wish she could teach us all some of her skills.

The "Zionazi patroller" who still isn't really here,
CM

You can imagine my surprise when I read this and found my own response had already been posted!!

I was taken by the expression "Slow-motion genocide" in the above piece. Since genocide is characterized by an extremely high death rate such as 200,000 killed in Darfur in the past 3 years or 66,000 killed/year. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict for the past 6 years of the intifada = 5000 killed/ 6 years or 833 killed/yr.

Sounds like "slow-motion speeding" to me.

Because of the great number of attacks and threatened attacks, the IDF conducts incursions into the PA to capture or kill terrorists who have carried out attacks and are planning new ones. This is all done per the mechanism allowed in the Oslo accords signed by Arafat in 1993.

The author above does not acknowledge that Palestinian children are taught from childhood to hate Jews and to want to destroy Israel.

Why re-invent the wheel? Your original answer to this repeated canard was so well documented and concise, I copied it to my hard drive.

Don't doubt you make a difference here...you are increasing all of our historical literacy.

It is not that the plight of the Palestinians is silent but that the chanting of the PR enablers is so loud and constant. It's very easy to see on this and any other critical, of Israeli treatment, thread.
The popular media never covers the violence and cruelty which is the everyday existence of the occupied ghettos in Palestine.
This is most likely the reason there are so many Israel defenders constantly posting in relay teams.
Never have I read a hint of shame from these ideologues. Ever.
The. words pouring out to cover all this ugly reality is astounding.

What would we have done without "brian", intrepid neo-Nazi troll of Vancouver-IMC and Palestine-IMC fame? (Note that both are dead now.)
Now that he's arrived here, the disgusting lies spewing forth from the pro-Nazi contingent are reflecting "diversity".

Yo, mini-Hitler, none of us can delete or hide your Palinazi friend's lying racist diatribe. So shut the fuck up or at least stick to truth, however limited your ability to do so.

I've seen plenty of evidence that proves the popular media DO cover what happens to Palestinians. And here in Indymedia the readers are subjected to an endless salvo of fabricated and highly exaggerated sob stories of Palestinian victimhood, and all the true stories get more than their fare share of adequate coverage. All this is possible due to the Big Oil funded rabid anti-Israel propaganda mill bankrolled by the Saudis.
I suspect you're reading from a prepared script where you were instructed to complain about a problem that doesn't even exist.
If you're really surprised that a loud chorus of the opposite side is trying to counteract the excessive coverage for the Palestinian side, you're simply unfamiliar with human nature. It abhors one-sidedness, so the other side will always strive to make its voice heard as well in direct proportion to the volume being emitted by the first.

On another note, don't expect the "pro-Israeli" side to express any "shame" about their favorite country's misdeeds when they and their state are viciously maligned 24/7 and the anti-Israel brigade isn't interested in real dialogue and exchange of ideas on Indymedia. Just look at the posts by someone like 'Sheepdog' and you might get an idea of what I'm saying. So this again is another point about human nature in action. What about shame expressed by militant Palestinians (and other enemies of Israel) and their devoted defenders on Indymedia? Are you only taking to task one side?

As for the existence of "ghettos in Palestine", you might want to bark up the right tree, so I suggest you take it up with the PA whose first chairman, Yasser Arafat, embezzled over $6 billion from the int'l aid funds for purchasing weapons to use against Israel plus extensive anti-Jewish propaganda plus funding lavish lifestyles for his cronies and family plus stashing a large portion in his multiple secret bank accounts rather than put the money to good use and modernize the disputed territories and supply training and jobs for his citizens.
It's awefully easy to blame Israel for every Palestinian misfortune when one is so uninformed.

Choices have consequences, even for Palestinians. By having chosen violence over peace time and ttime again, they have created their current circumstances which are a not to be unexpected consequence of war mongering.

As a result of Arafat and UNRWA, a culture of victim hood and blaming others has been inculcated among the Palestinians place of a culture of responsibility and achievement. The people (like Indybay) who would seek to relieve the Palestinians of the burden of having to bear the consequences of their choices are not "Pro-Palestinian" . Perpetuating the current situation for the Palestinians wil only lead to inevitable disaster for them. Those folks are simply anti-Israel.

truth or consequences.
You say anti Israel as if the concept of negating a nation and people were an act of unique evil.
Isn't that what the zionazis have done from the beginning? After sharpening their skills under the tutelage of Eichmann ( or maybe the other way around ) I would surmise that this big lie about a vacant land without people need constant reenforcement plus armed enforcement to convince the Palestinians of this 'reality'.
What grand and blithe hypocrisy.
And you individuals keep bleating about the unmitigated gaul of the Palestinan resistance to this overt Genocide.

Shit Dog:
"Isn't that what the zionazis have done from the beginning? ngah ngah ngah"

So tell us. Do you actually masturbate when you utter these words? How would you physically eradicate us untermenschen?

Shit Dog:
"I would surmise that this big lie about a vacant land without people need constant reenforcement plus armed enforcement to convince the Palestinians of this 'reality'. "

No, dumbfuck. The Zionist claim was, "a land without _a_ people for a people without a land". It wasn't ever "a land without people...". Can your crypto-Nazi mind catch that?

Shit Dog:
"And you individuals keep bleating about the unmitigated gaul of the Palestinan resistance to this overt Genocide."

The unmitigated gall to try to comit genocide by murdering innocents in cold blood fueled by racist motivation and then claim the existence of genocide where there's none. Like your goosestepping mind is now doing.

Dismissed.

Sheepdip... How many times do you have to have your functionally illiterate ass handed to you before you finally recognize that you just aren't very good at this?

but scorpio, in my worst ever day, you could never even rise to the level of my shadow.
But aside from your being my moral and intellectual inferior, what does that have to do with the main point of my post?
You do remember the point, right?
Okay, to help you out here I'll just restate the fact that the zionazis ( you may include yourself ) always accuse the Palestinian of their own criminality, like negating a nation and people. And then having the unmitigated crust to wank about the resistance of these people to lay down and be bulldozed over.

Let's see now.

Shit Dog:
"Okay, to help you out here I'll just restate the fact that the zionazis ( you may include yourself ) always accuse the Palestinian of their own criminality, like negating a nation and people."

So he reasons that *all Zionists* -- notice the generalization -- *always* (another generalization) "accuse the Palestinian of their own criminality, ngah ngah". Never mind that a large percentage of Palestinians murder non-combatants for just being Jews living in what they consider an exclusive Muslim patrimony while a still larger percentage aids and abets these murderers in various manners, including voting them into power, thereby subscribing to a racist theocratic ideology with genocide as one of its tenets, and then they turn around wailing in response to Israeli defensive and punitive measures that Israel is perpetrating genocide on them when in actuality the reality is very far from this. Personally I believe the Israelis aren't even making enough of a stink about these Palestinian outrages. For instance, I recall only one massacre -- the March 2002 Hotel Park Netanya Passover Massacre that triggered Operation Defensive Shield -- in more than a decade that the mainstream Israeli media has been willing to refer to as such.

Do you know about B'nei Elim for the same reason I know about B'nei Elim?



“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. " George Orwell

I've been following the developments occurring in the two JDL factions by occasionally checking back to their respective websites. What was going on there was a sorry joke for sure -- each faction claimed it was the "genuine" JDL while the guys with the most talent and abilities were apparently being bombarded with derision at due to the inescapable association many were making with their ghostly rivals.

You know, one thing I'm thankful to the late Kahane for -- obviously to the endless chagrin of all this IMC's goosesteppers -- is that I was able to spend a portion of my childhood in safety, free from manifestations of overt anti-Jewish hatred. It wasn't the police nor the FBI.

I'm a bit curious as to whether the Israeli authorities would create obstacles for them if they wished to branch out to Israel. (The JDL initially had an Israeli branch but was later outlawed.)
I'll bet much of the Left here would immediately scramble to pass legislation or appeal to the Supreme Court to deprive them of legal recognition as a legitimate outfit just because of who they are. "Free speech for me, not for thee" is these Israelis' idea of freedom of speech. And I'm basing this on years of observation. You know, one can get arrested in a matter of minutes here for even wearing a Kach t-shirt! (But don't expect the resident crypto-Nazis to even faintly commend the Israeli legal apparatuses for that.)

Since I'm now autoblocked over there I'll sign off here:
Shabbat Shalom Chavera.

And draconian charges of racist agitation might be brought.

"your being my moral and intellectual inferior"

Precious! This... coming from an illiterate communist who lacks any moral compass whatsoever.

From the Hamas Charter: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

...and...

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

... These are the words of an organization you support. And when they start detonating suicide vests in public schools and malls in cities like LA, New York and Washington DC, killing innocent American kids... will you support them then? OF COURSE YOU WILL! Why? Because you are utterly devoid of moral character, a problem compounded by naked stupidity hiding behind a big mouth.

A big mouth doesn't give you moral character, Sheepdung.

You are referring to Hamas?
The organization that Israeli intelligence created to compete with the PLO?
I have a fence that needs to be painted and if all of you zionazis could use that broad brush, that fence could have ( as well as the entire neighborhood ) a new coat of 'anti-semetic'.
If the Israeli criminal government would stop being such murderous assholes and treat the Palestinians like fellow humans ( I know this goes against everything you weasels stand for ) and begin the massive reparations to ( attempt to ) compensate the victims of Zionist aggression, I promise to stop posting about this.

Otherwise you'll need more weasels to counter me. At least more than you have now.

I'm on their "list" . Nearly useless. Very disappointing. You are right about the infighting- over little more than a name. I do more on my own, with my little action group.

I've been concerned that even my limited association with them might affect my ability to get into Israel . Is that a legitimate concern?

Yes, I regularly tell people on IMC and in the streets that Kach was banned in Israel for "inciting racism". They stare blankly at me, begin to drool, and then continue with their accusation that Israel is a racist state. Oh well.

(1.) The Israeli leardership is no less corrupt that the PA leadership, or than *any* political leadership of *any* country.

(2.) Nothing Arafat did, or did not do, justifies what the Zionists have done, and continue to do, to Palestine. Neither does anything the Nazis, or any pogromists, did. There is no excuse.

nessie the Jew-hater: "The Israeli leardership is no less corrupt that the PA leadership"

Really? Please point to any Israeli political figure who embezzeled six billion dollars into his private accounts like Arafat did. Can't? There aren't any? You're caught talking out your ass again? That happens quite a bit to you, doesn't it, nessie? No wonder SF-IMC sank into the marshes as soon as you took it over as your personal megaphone.

Hell, let's make it easy. Can you point to any Israeli political figure who embezzeled _one_ billion dollars into his private accounts? Half a billion? A quarter billion? A hundred million? Still can't? Uh-oh -- better go on a rant and try to change the subject, because you haven't got a leg to stand on on this one.

@%<

I propose you keep the Bnai Elim topic on the tiniest burner you can whenever you come in contact with ANY Israeli, wherever you go in the States. That's because Israelis tend to be a close knit unit and officials can catch wind of stuff they have no business knowing rather quickly. And if you go to a consulate to arrange a visit or Aliyah, keep mum about this topic. If all else fails, I suggest lying -- pretend you've never had any association with them.

From the glimpse at their website I've seen they provided security for some conference. doesn't this very humble start count at all? Maybe they need some time to get used to their new orientation or something.

"Nothing Arafat did, or did not do, justifies what the Zionists have done, and continue to do, to Palestine. blah blah There is no excuse."

The "Zionists" virtually always have defended and are defending themselves from the pernicious theocratic racist murderers whom you've apologized for quite a few times. But then again what else can be expected from a semi-Naziesque goosestepper like "nessie"?

>>>From the Hamas Charter: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

...and...

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

Arafat recognized Israel's right to exist, and all it got him was Sharon's tanks smashing and crashing through his compound.

Moral of the story: you can't deal with the zionist state...

Arafat only recognized Israel's right to exist for external consumption. Many of the statements he since made in the Arab media and to his constituents prove he never intended to accept Israel's existence and was scheming to destroy it in phases as per the 1974-adopted PLO Phases Doctrine.

Did you even know that Arafat started the intifada when Ehud Barak was still in office and the Israeli electorate only elected Sharon in response? Hell, even CNN appears to be a better source of info than the unknown media you consumed news from. You're abysmally misinformed. Kind of like the people who still maintain that Palestinian participants in the intifada only have stones to use against the Israeli might apart from suicide bombers.

"Arafat recognized Israel's right to exist, and all it got him was Sharon's tanks smashing and crashing through his compound. "

Factually incorrect. Tanks were sent to Arafats compound to force Arafat to end the Intifada he started. That's just a simple fact. Process it or get out of the way.

But don't let simple historical facts cloud your 'thinking'.

...claiming it was Israeli property, setting the Intefada off.
Not even Moshe Dayan would go anywhere near the Temple, because he KNEW that all hell would break loose!!!

I'll bet you're totally unaware that even Arafat's successor sanctioned the extensive inculcation of virulent antisemitic hatred among in Palestinians in the PA educational system, from toddlers onwards, plus unbridled antisemitc incitement in PA controlled mosques.
Don't take my word for what I've said in this thread about Yasser Arafat and Abu-Mazen -- sites like Palestinian Media Watch, www.pmw.org.il/, are chock-full of evidence to this effect. Or you deride such outlets as "Zionist propaganda" as you rather remain in your misinformed/indoctrinated comfort zone instead of examining the evidence proving you wrong? I don't fall for a lopsided portrait of the events, so don't expect me to be impressed by how you assign all the responsibility for Hamas' ascent on Israelis and omit the responsibility of Palestinians. Try to tone down the excitement, put down your bong and learn some facts.

Fyi, Sharon coordinated his visit to the Temple Mount with the Muslim Waqf prior to the visit. He never went near the mosques. Arafat viewed this visit as an opportune time to unleash the intifada he had been preparing for since he abandoned Camp David in July 2000 and winked to his minions. This was the cue to start the riot that launched the intifada. It was not Sharon but Arafat who provided the spark that ignited the powder keg. Don't use Moshe Dayan as an example to anything pertaining to 2000 because he whatever he did or didn't do occurred when the geopolitical circumstances were quite different.

I'm much closer to the events and much better informed, so I suggest you stop trying to teach me what happened then, unless you insist on emulating the behavior of the likes of 'Sheepdog' and "nessie" the buffoons.

You must be the editor of that URL
http://www.pmw.org.il/
'cause it, like all the other zionazi sources, never alludes to the possibility of Israel ever doing wrong.
Poor pure little 'Israel'.
That dangerous psychopathic aggressor nation with nuclear weapons.

Can your ubermensch Palinazi mind deal with the fact I haven't even contributed a damned thing to that wonderful resource?

We have enough Palestinian resources out there as is. Ah... see, a site being totally dedicated to one side's cause is only wrong when the Zionists make it? How couldn't I figure that out?

Point me to a Palinazi sourcve that concedes even one thing wrong your beloved Palis ever committed. Being a dog, you can't use your paw for that. but just run to it and then bark to me once you get there.

What did the Palestinians ever do wrong? Try to defend themselves from foreign invaders?
I guess that's their crime.
'Cause they sure didn't invade Lebanon.

Now you're shifting gears in a vain attempt to chcange the topic, but I see though it. You're unable to rise to the challenge.

Answering a question that stupid shouldn't be met with a thorough edifying reply. But for one thing, the PLO commenced its terroristic history by perpetrating a few acts of terrorism in 1964-65 way before Israel took over the disputed terrirotiess as war spoil from Jordan and Egypt in '67. I can go even further back in time, or the other way. Then in the late 1960's for example they began to murder and wound Israelis in increasing numbers.
Oh, I won't expect you to ever see that resorting to that violence was wrong regardless of your belief that Israel is an illegitimite entity in all of the territory it ever controlled. Any attempt to have a serious discussion with a communist who enthusiastically sides with religious fundamentalist groups espousing an ideology that would deprive the rival nation of all of its terriotry over secular Israeli parties who'd reach some sort of compromise is a waste of time if ever there was one.

It's not like you intend to change your mind even one iota, so go back to your Palinazi venom spew mode.

Obviously you don't understand the concept of resistance.
You're just outraged that it exists.

Don't ever expect me to undertand your repugnant Orwelian, inverted definitions of morality. "Resistance" expressed by murdering innocents both within and outside of the disputed territories in the middle and late 1960's that occurred when the supposedly oppressed people weren't yet actually suffering, and their condition in fact dramatically improved a couple years before (they suffered much more under Jordanian and Egyptian occupation than under Israeli administration at the time) is a despicable thing. The PLO started the cycle of violence.

If you entertain an expection that I join you in lauding or understanding violent attacks on non-combatants just because they're Jewish or Israeli -- all the more so for the wrong reasons -- you're talking to the wrong person.

But why waste time touching events from the late 60's when you actually insist on lying that Zionist Jews who actually purchased peacefully uninhabitable land no one else cared to settle on invaded a strange land and stole territory from the natives by force of arms.

I have this feeling the only innocents you are typing about are Jews.
Not the original inhabitants. Of Palestine.

Thus he spake: none of the original inhabitants of Palestine were Jews. All natives in Palestine were non-Jewish. Presto!

WTF?
babbeling incoherently, again.

Come again on that last remark, autoliar@LA?
And what exactly is your point?
Again I'll help you out here.
You seem upset that non Jews occupied Palestine before the zionazi hordes swarmed into farming villages to murder and terrorize the unequipped and unprepared inhabitants who had been living in peace for generations.
Miffed, no doubt that Rome expelled the troublesome tribes of Judea thousands of years earlier.
Looking at it now we can see the reason why.
Just coming in to 'take over' is not polite. And believing one has the 'right' to displace the current residents because of some 'god' and its mythical promise to cede this land to these tribes, is... psychotic.
Which is the flavor of most of the posts from your kind of lying filth. A disgrace to most of the people of Jewish religious faith in the world who condemns this activity knowing the historical principle of backlash.

Not that your crew of rabid weasels give a flying fuck for all other Jews.
Either too sick or stupid to care about them, I guess.

The cut off point where I stopped reading your gem of a crypto-Nazi comment was at the last word of "You seem upset that non Jews occupied Palestine before the zionazi hordes". Too bad you're so weak that you can't do without the Palinazi filter perpetually attached to your cortex. You're too afraid to try to experiment cognizance without it.

I'll drop you now one two more bones:

1) The aftermath of the calamitous Jewish revolt crushed in 135 AD and the Roman punitive measures witnessed at least tens of thousands of Jews that remained in the land. Late in that year the land was renamed "Siria-Palaestina", subsequently shortened to Palaestina and then rendered in English Palestine.

2) In the last quarter of the 19th century right before Zionism came on the scene in Israel in the image of the First Aliyah immigration, a few thousand Jews dwelled in Palestine.

Hence, you spoke nonsense when you insinuated that none of the original inhabitants of Palestine were Jews and all natives in Palestine were non-Jewish.

Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik on the
Jewish Obligation to Defend the Community from Attack

[The following quotation appears on pp. 65–66 in Fate and Destiny, which was published in 1956!]

The matter does not just affect the political future of Israel. The designs of the Arabs are directed not just against the political sovereignty of the State of Israel but against the very existence of the Yishuv in the land of Israel. They wish to destroy, heaven forbid, the entire community, "both men and women, infant and suckling, ox and sheep" (1 Samuel 15:3) At a Mizrachi convention I cited the view expressed by my father and master (Rabbi Moses Soloveitchik) of blessed memory, that the proclamation, "The Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation" (Exodus 17:16) does not only translate into the communal exercise of waging obligatory war against a specific race but includes as well the obligation to rise up as a community against any people or group that, filled with maniacal hatred, directs its enmity against Keneset Israel. When a people emblazons on its banner, "Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation: that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance" (Psalms 83:5) it becomes, thereby, Amalek. In the 1930's and 1940's the Nazis, with Hitler at their head, filled this role. They were the Amalekites, the standard-bearers of insane hatred and enmity during the era just past. Today their place has been taken over by the mobs of Nasser and the Mufti. If we are silent now as well, I know not the verdict that will be issued against us by the God of justice. Do not rely on the "liberal" world's sense of equity. Those same righteous liberals were around fifteen years ago, and they looked with indifference upon the extermination of millions of people; they did not lift a finger. If, heaven forbid, yet a second spectacle of blood were to take place before their very eyes, it is likely that they would not even lose a night's sleep over it.

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
-- Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.

"Any one who speaks in favor of bringing the Arab refugees back must also say how he expects to take the responsibility for it, if he is interested in the state of Israel. It is better that things are stated clearly and plainly: We shall not let this happen."
-- Golda Meir, 1961, in a speech to the Knesset, reported in Ner, October 1961

"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy."
-- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"[Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat."
-- Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry. (Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen's remarks to the Knesset's foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)

"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever."
-- Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine.

"The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the River Jordan for future generations, for the mass aliya (=Jewish immigration), and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country."
-- Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Aviv memorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service.

"The settlement of the Land of Israel is the essence of Zionism. Without settlement, we will not fulfill Zionism. It's that simple."
-- Yitzhak Shamir, Maariv, 02/21/1997.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

On the day of the 9-11 attacks, former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked what the attacks would mean for US-Israeli relations. His quick reply was: "It's very good…….Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy (for Israel)"

"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more"....
-- Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.

"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

Occupied Jerusalem: 3 October, 2001 (IAP) -- According to Israel radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yisrael, [Shimon] Peres warned [Ariel] Sharon Wednesday that refusing to heed incessant American requests for a cease-fire with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and "turn the US against us."
At this point, a furious Sharon reportedly turned toward Peres, saying "every time we do something you tell me Americans will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it."
The radio said Peres and other cabinet ministers warned Sharon against saying what he said in public because "it would cause us a public relations disaster."

if we can wake the Goyim.

z=r: "if we can wake the Goyim."

So you think that the true target of Zionism is "the goyim"?

@%<

Sheeple barks: "'Cause they sure didn't invade Lebanon."

Who didn't? Of course "The Palestinians" didn't. However, the PLO - led by an Egyptian, but I digress - after getting booted out of Jordan migrated to Lebanon and promptly played their role in the civil war there.

As Sheepdog is clearly an expert on Palestinian affairs and really (honest!) cares for their plight (accept for ones not being killed by Israelis Shhhhh!), he will be able to answer the following questions easily.

Who provided security for the American diplomatic community in Beirut in 1982?

Who prevented the IDF delivering a knockout blow to the PLO in Beirut in 1982 and escorted them to Tunis? And why?

Once these questions are answered, all kinds of counter-absurdity and liberating thoughtforms become possible.

So please do so!

T have little reason to follow any topic you bring up, save for the information it may present to other readers .

If 'Israel' had not been murdering and generally rolling over the inhabitants who were there -before- the zionist invasion , 'Israel' wouldn't have the problems of Hamas, the PLO and all the other mass movements that have grown; cultivated in a field of hate and repression and yes, GENOCIDE,

You individuals are dangerous and psychotic.

But very good at quibbling on effects of the primary crime and blaming the victims of these crimes. You individuals are just outraged that these victims refuse to stay victims and become antagonists.
This escalation of bloodshed can only end in 'Israel's' ruin. The cast system must end, for your own survival unless you show the world what a dangerous state 'Israel' is by full blown mass slaughter instead of mere incidental terrorism.

If the local Arabs in the late 19th century and the 1st half of last century didn't attack the local Jews who peacefully immigrated, bought land and didn't force any Arab off their property, there wouldn't be the Bar-Giora, HaShomer, Haganah, Irgun, Stern Gang organizations established first and foremost to defend Jews and also occasionally exact revenge for good measure, and finally punitive actions by the IDF in response to their senseless violence.

Unfortunately for my country, Israel won't react to Palestinian violence the way less democratic regimes such as Russia have dealth with terrorism. 'Sheepdog' will never grasp that the Zionists running Israel are bound primarily by Jewish morals in their refusal to visit a crushing defeat on the Palestinians using, say, carpet bombings, and are usually proud of it. Hence the quasi-attrition nature of this low-intensity "war". The Israeli refusal to commit mass slaughter isn't merely a product of weaselry.

The rest of Sheepdog's tirade is just a slight variation on his boringly familiar belch-fart-burp-puke theme. How tiresome.

In my understanding, there were many Jews living in Palestine, in peace with the generally agrarian culture and if a few assholes like you ( being what reads like an uncaring and dangerously violent asshole ) were dealt with... cool.. so what's the point?

Your understanding of history in Palestine is tendentiously fucked up.
By and large, the Jews were regarded as second-class citizens. They encountered legal discrimination at every turn, and evidence given by them was not recognized by the courts. Jews were not only debarred from attaining high government office, they were subject to daily mockery and scorn, were forbidden to ride camels or horses within the city limits and were obliged to make way for Moslems. Their persons and possessions were unprotected by law and prone to constant abuse (without any possibility of appealing to the courts of justice).
***M. Reisher, who lived in Jerusalem, writes in 1866:
"When a Jew walked among them in the market, one would throw a stone at him in order to kill him, another would pull his beard, and a third his ear-lock, yet another spit on his face, and he became a symbol of abuse".

At the height of its rule in the early 19th century, the Ottoman Empire instituted “Tanzimat,” a series of laws promulgated over several decades which radically changed the nature of land ownership. As a result of the new laws, wealthy land owners, bankers, business owners, and money lenders anywhere in the Empire could now buy land formerly owned communally by the Arab peasants (fellahin) in the towns and villages of the region that would later become known as Israel.

From the mid-1830s to the late 1850s, wealthy Arabs (effendi) from Cairo to Beirut, Jaffa to Damascus, purchased land previously owned by hundreds of thousands of fellahin, who suddenly found themselves landless serfs instead of successful small farmers, now working what had once been their own land as tenants of the effendi.

In years of inadequate harvest, Arab money lenders granted usurious loans and took as collateral both future harvests and whatever land remained under communal ownership. When future harvests were insufficient to pay off the debt, with its astronomic interest rate, the money lenders confiscated more land and pushed the fellahin deeper into a modern-day version of feudal serfdom. In other words, the Palestinian Arab peasantry watched helplessly as their land was bought out from under them, by their own people, 50 years before Zionism.

From the 1830s onward, travelers such as Karl Marx and Mark Twain commented on the desolation and emptiness of the area. The Sultan could not collect taxes from unoccupied land. So the Turkish authorities forcibly relocated Bulgarians, Circassians, and Arabs from surrounding regions. Some stayed, worked the land, and assimilated into the local population. Others found a way to escape back to their homelands. The crown’s policy of forced resettlement impacted negatively on the indigenous Arab fellahin. The newcomers created competition for resources (especially water) and offered new sources of supply for agrarian markets. The Arab peasants, already reduced to subsistence agriculture, had to work harder simply to survive. (O’Brien, Mandel, Scholch, Shafir).

From the 1880s onward, Zionists bought land in ever-increasing amounts all over what would later be called Israel, and a bit in trans-Jordan. They purchased land from two main sources: The crown and the wealthy Arab land-owners (Effendi), both local and absentee. ***The fellahin or peasants were already dispossessed.***

Owned by the Sultan, crown land was largely unoccupied and un-worked. The Sultan was delighted to have someone purchase, develop, and pay taxes on it. The purchase of crown land rendered no one landless. In fact, it had a positive influence on the neighboring fellahin. The technologically advanced Zionist agrarian endeavors resulted in the reclamation of arid areas with modern irrigation. In addition to learning new agricultural techniques, the Arab peasants could graze flocks on the newly created grassland surrounding the Zionists’ fields. In the swampy areas of the Jezreel and upper Hula valleys, newly drained swampland created arable tracts beyond the holdings of the Zionists, and local Arabs worked those lands, albeit illegally as squatters as far as the crown and wealthy Arab landowners were concerned.

Unlike the wealthy Arabs who purchased land under the Tanzimat and kept the fellahin on the land as serf-like peasants, the Zionists worked the land they purchased themselves, as farmers, and thus had no use for peasant labor. Relocation of the Arab peasants was accomplished in several different ways. ***Zionist purchasers sometimes paid an additional fee to the wealthy Arab land owner, for instance, to help subsidize the peasants’ move.*** There was much un-worked land both in the land west of the Jordan River and in Trans-Jordan (the land to the east) that could be bought with these funds. ***The former Arab serfs could now once again become land-owners, thanks to the surcharge paid by the Zionist purchasers. ***

***Sometimes, the wealthy Arab land-owner illegally kept the surcharge. When Arab peasants did not receive their payment, they complained and sometimes sued the Zionists in the Muslim courts of the Turkish administration. ***In many cases, the Zionists paid the surcharge again to the peasants*** rather than incur the expenses and risks of a court case, especially as Jewish plaintiffs in a Muslim court.

***Sometimes, the Arab peasants demanded that other land be bought for them so they would not have to search for uninhabited farmland. The Zionists often did this to avoid confrontation.*** But after fulfilling their part of the deal, they often found their land suddenly covered with Bedouin tents or the shanties of squatters. Having no police or other armed force of their own, they turned to the Ottoman rulers of the region for justice. ***Sometimes honest neighbors would attest that the new occupants were indeed interlopers trying to extort money from the Zionists. At other times, in the absence of such witnesses, the Zionists had to pay off these squatters or buy land for them elsewhere.*** (Almog, Avneri, Bard, Fischbach, Gilbert “History”, Shapira; Sankowsky)

~~~The Hope-Simpson report in 1930, addressing the question of uprooted Arab peasants under the British Mandate (imposed after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I), concluded that only a bit more than 800 families were actually rendered landless by Zionist land purchases over the decades from 1880 onward. While initially more than 3,000 Arab heads of households claimed such status in the hope of gaining land or money at the expense of the Zionists or the British, the Hope-Simpson staff found that only a fraction of that number were legitimate (Gilbert “History”, O’Brien, Sachar, Sufian).

Wealthy Arab land owners enriched themselves at the expense of the Zionists who were willing to pay inflated prices with double and triple surcharges in order to procure land for the creation of a Jewish homeland. And some Arab peasants were able to reverse the tragic consequences of the Tanzimat land-grab and regain their status as land-owning farmers thanks to the Zionists’ willingness to pay them or buy land for them, often in trans-Jordan. (Bard “Myths and Facts”, Sachar, Sufian)

For an even more detailed account stretching back to the Muslim Arab conquest in the mid 630's, read http://indybay.org/news/hidden.php?id=1814752#1814920. You can, of course, start with the last 500 years or so.

Your definition of "peace" seems to be one where Jews are subordinate and subservient to others and do not retaliate when abused but rather resign themselves to ongoing mistreatment. Several days ago I related some of these facts and others to your 'nessie' comrade and he didn't even try to offer a rebuttal. Maybe he's a tad wiser than you after all, I don't know. I know you'll disregard the historical facts I spoke about here. You're not the type to deviate from the script or to place a premium on the entire historical truth and the nuanced picture.

Assholes are always assholes. I have never cared what group they align themselves with. Justice always struggles to serve the people in equal measures to offer protection from such assholes. It's part of human social evolution.
Once the 'might makes right' monkeyboy reflexes are socialized safely.

The measures the Wehrmacht and later the IDF use, like opening fire zones in civilian areas and using armor and attack fighter jets to send incursions into huge crowded ghettos where violent terrorism on a deliberate and calculated scale in order to provide outright theft of someone's home, occurs on a daily basis. The obvious object is to make the remaining Palestinians' life a crushed living hell under the whim of 'Israeli' designs on the remaining 'promised land' ...

>If the local Arabs in the late 19th century and the 1st half of last century didn't attack the local Jews

See:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/151186_comment.php#155953

(snip)

"The Moslem religious leaders, the Mufti, was openly friendly. Throughout Arabia, the chiefs were for the most part distinctly pro-Zionist: and in Palestine the peasantry were delighted at every prospect of Jewish settlement near their villages. Commercial intercourse between Arab and Jew was constant and steady." pp.13

"The Arab National Movement was hated by the huge Levantine population who continued to regard themselves simply as Ottoman subjects, looked to the strong, influential Zionist Organization for sympathy and assistance."

"Hussein of the Hejaz looked to the Zionists for the financial and scientific experience of which the projected Arab state would standly badly in need. In May 1918, Dr. Chaim Weizmann and Hussein of the Hejaz met in Cairo where the latter spoke of mutual cooperation between Jews and Arabs in Palestine. In early 1919 a Treaty of Friendship was signed to provide for "the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab state and the coming Jewish Commonwealth of Palestine."On March 3, l9l9, another Arab leader, Feisal, son of Sherif, wrote: "We wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home."

If Ziff's words are accurate, there was no Arab opposition to Jewish immigration to Palestine at least as far back as l919.

(snip)

Evil sneeky bastards.

ok not all the Brits.
Just their foreign services.

I'm not lying. You've read my posts on Indybay wherein I recounted several times the 1886 Arab attack on Petah-Tiqva and the 1908 Arab attack on the Jews in Jaffa. Later, you know Jews were attacked in 1920, 1921, 1936-1939 and so forth. I know you've strategically "forgotten" these attacks on Jews you've read about several times since 2000 at least, but it's not working here.

The Mufti preceding Hajj Amin, appointed in the 1920's, may have been friendly, but that hardly negates his successor's enmity.

Also, you've somehow managed to ignore the disclaimer "If Ziff's words are accurate, there was no Arab opposition to Jewish immigration to Palestine at least as far back as l919. ", allowing for a possibility they weren't totally accurate.

Bottom line, you sounded the oft-written inane accusation "more Zionist lies" and didn't refute me. You're doing drugs? So what if an ad hominem is not a rebuttal?

This begs the question. It's not "my notion." It's the historical record as recounted by Ziff. Perhaps "autoblocked" would have you believe that Ziff lied. Is that it? Are we supposed to believe that Ziff is a liar? Unless "auto" explains himself here, we can only wonder.

From Stephanie Gutmann's book: The Other War: Israelis Palestinians and the Struggle for Media Supremacy"- just published in 2005.
This passage describes a conversation the author had with her translator and guide, a man in his 20's.

One day, for instance, one of Faraj's dark soliloquies contained a reference to the "Jews who keep coming and moving onto our land"....
"They believe its their land, too", I said
"But the Jews have only been around since...oh, the thirties", he said
"Nonsense. They've been around since biblical times, since as long as you, at least"
Faraj kept shaking his head, no, not true. His small smile seemed to think he had me on this one.
"Two words", I said. "Jesus Christ.. you know, king of the Jews? Jesus of Nazareth, born in Bethlehem, took his last walk with the cross through the old city".

"That is very interesting", Faraj said. After one of these discussions, he told me in a rush that he loved these talks, that simply by talking about such things, "new worlds opened" for him.

Apparently, the Palestinians are about as knowledgable of their region's history, as , well, Indymedia contributors.

'Nessie', you appear now too loaded or stoned to be posting. I was addressing these words to your friend. You may now be unable to scroll up and see that for yourself. Substance abuse can do that even to the "nessie" prodigy. Might I suggest you wait until you sober up before you carry on with your ineffectual hate-driven ramblings? If you chose to continue at present, you should be explaining some things to me, not the other way around.

the largest Muslim Nazi SS unit in the '30s was the 13th division known as "Hanjar." Ynetnews is reporting that historical documents in Britain’s National Archives in London show that Nazi S.S. agents in Mandatory Palestine attempted to ship arms to Arab forces loyal to Hitler.

A British Foreign Office report from 1939 reports of “news of a consignment of arms from Germany, sent via Turkey and addressed to Ibn Saud (king of Saudi Arabia), but really intended for the Palestine insurgents.” Britain’s chief military officer in Mandatory Palestine also noted reports “regarding import of German arms at intervals for some years now.”

British documents from the same period, and German records photographed by an American spy and sent to the British government, said that a number of Nazi agents were sent to Mandatory Palestine, in order to forge alliances with Mandatory Palestinian leaders, and urge them to reject a partition of the land between the Jewish and Arab populations.

“The Palestinian Arabs show on all levels a great sympathy for the new Germany and its Fuhrer, a sympathy whose value is particularly high as it is based on a purely ideological foundation,” a Nazi official in Palestine wrote in a letter to Berlin in 1937.

He added:

“Most important for the sympathies which Arabs now feel towards Germany is their admiration for our Fuhrer, especially during the unrests, I often had an opportunity to see how far these sympathies extend. When faced with a dangerous behaviour of an Arab mass, when one said that one was German, this was already generally a free pass.”

Folks, it must be pointed out that this all happened before the 1967 war, before the "occupation" in 1967.

What is the "occupation"?

The 'Occupied Territories' refers to land lost by Israel's Arab neighbors after they inititiated and instigated a war against Israel. Israel gained territories in the Six-Day War of 1967. They include Judaea and Samaria (previously occupied by Jordan, and now known as the 'West Bank'), the Golan Heights (previously occupied by Syria), and the Gaza Strip (previously occupied by Egypt).

Interestingly, while these territories were conquered by Jordan, Syria and Egypt in 1948 to the time they were gained by Israel, the territories were not refered to as 'occupied' by the international community. Furthermore, the people living in those territories before 1967 were not called 'Palestinians' as they are today; they were called Jordanians and Egyptians.

No one has been around since biblical times. People don't live that long.

There have been Jews in Palestine since the ethnic cleansing of the Canaanites and Philistines, but even they were immigrants. More important, not a single one has been there all along. To lump together all Jews, both dead and alive, is racist. So is the belief that because *some* Jews once lived there, *all* Jews have a right to rule Palestine, simply because they are Jews. This is as racist as the belief that Aryan have a right to rule Germany, simply because they are Aryans. No one has the right to rule any place, simply because of their bloodline. If you believe otherwise, you're a racist.

I keep waiting for you to say the same thing about the Jordanians or the Saudis, or the Kuwaitis, yet you only ever specifically mention Israel.
Why?

what about the rest of them:
"I keep waiting for you to say the same thing about the Jordanians or the Saudis, or the Kuwaitis, yet you only ever specifically mention Israel.
Why?"

I see you're posing a variation on the same question I've recently asked a few times. An honest answer isn't forthcoming...

What same thing?

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1962248

(snip)

Sometimes he takes something that a Zionist has written, subtly alters its meaning by changing a few words, and posts it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

Maybe this isn't the work of a puerile mentality. Maybe it'a the work of a bot. Bots have been getting mighty clever lately:

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/eliza.txt

A British Foreign Office report from 1939 reports of “news of a consignment of arms from Germany, sent via Turkey and addressed to Ibn Saud (king of Saudi Arabia), but really intended for the Palestine insurgents.” Britain’s chief military officer in Mandatory Palestine also noted reports “regarding import of German arms at intervals for some years now.”

British documents from the same period, and German records photographed by an American spy and sent to the British government, said that a number of Nazi agents were sent to Mandatory Palestine, in order to forge alliances with Palestinian leaders, and urge them to reject a partition of the land between the Jewish and Arab populations.

One Nazi agent, Adam Vollhardt, arrived in Palestine in July 1938, and was reported to have gained strong influence with Arab leaders, meeting with Palestinian leaders throughout 1938. Vollhardt held several meetings with leading Arab politicians and told them “that the Palestine question would be settled to the satisfaction of the Arabs within a few weeks,” adding that “it would be fatal to their (Palestinians’) cause if at this juncture they showed any signs of weakness or exhaustion.”

“Germany was interested in the settlement of the (Palestine) question on the basis of the Arabs obtaining their full demands,” Vollhardt was reported to say to Palestinian leaders, according to a report by the British War Office. Vollhardt also assured Arab leaders that “the Germans could continue to support the Palestinian Arab cause by means of propaganda.”

German documents photographed and sent to Whitehall by an American spy revealed that in 1937, German officials had calculated that “Palestine under Arab rule would ... become one of the few countries where we could count on a strong sympathy for the new Germany.”

“The Palestinian Arabs show on all levels a great sympathy for the new Germany and its Fuhrer, a sympathy whose value is particularly high as it is based on a purely ideological foundation,” a Nazi official in Palestine wrote in a letter to Berlin in 1937. He added: “Most important for the sympathies which Arabs now feel towards Germany is their admiration for our Fuhrer, especially during the unrests, I often had an opportunity to see how far these sympathies extend. When faced with a dangerous behaviour of an Arab mass, when one said that one was German, this was already generally a free pass.”

And who better to teach treachery than the nazis? Feeding both sides of a potential conflict. Almost as good as the British.
Why don't you all put away your nuclear weapons, tanks helicopters, jets and bombs, tear down your walls and lose your superior hubris.
Then you may live in peace.
And never before.

Hajj Amin Al Husseini wasn't Hitler's only stooge in British occupied Palestine. Consider the case of Fieval Polkes:

"Von Bolschwing was deeply involved in intelligence work--and in the persecution of innocent people -- for most of his adult life. He had joined the Nazi party at the age of twenty-three, in 1932, and had become an SD (party security service) informer almost immediately. In the years leading up to 1939, von Bolschwing became a leading Nazi intelligence agent in the Middle East, where he worked under cover as an importer in Jerusalem. One of his first brushes with Nazi espionage work, according to captured SS records, was a role in creating a covert agreement between the Nazis and Fieval Polkes, a commander of the militant Zionist organization Haganah, whom von Bolschwing had met through business associates in the Mideast. Under the arrangement the Haganah was permitted to run recruiting and training camps for Jewish youth inside Germany. These young people, as well as certain other Jews driven out of Germany by the Nazis, were encouraged to emigrate to Palestine. Polkes and the Haganah, in return, agreed to provide the SS with intelligence about British affairs in Palestine. Captured German records claim that Polkes believed the increasingly brutal Nazi persecution of the Jews could be turned to Zionist advantage -- at least temporarily -- by compelling Jewish immigration to Palestine, and that the Haganah commander's sole source of income, moreover, was secret funds from the SS.

It was in the course of these negotiations that the young Baron von Bolschwing gained the trust of Adolf Eichmann, who was at the time an obscure SS functionary specializing in intelligence on Freemasonry and Jewish affairs for the Nazi party. The acquaintance was more than a casual one, for von Bolschwing went on to play a central role in arranging conferences between Eichmann and Polkes in Vienna and Cairo, contacts that established Eichmann as the SS's Jewish affairs expert and laid the foundation for his later career as the architect of the extermination of European Jewry.”

-- Blowback : America's Recruitment of Nazis and Its Effects on the Cold War by Christopher Simpson, ISBN: 1555841066, p 253

Simpson’s source on this is:

Sicherheitsdienst des RFSS SD-Hauptamt, Palastinareise Bericht (U.S. designation no. 173-b-16-14/61), now at Frames 2936012-2936068, microfilm roll 411, T-175, RG 242, NA, Washington, D.C.

* * * * *

After the war, von Bolschwing settled in California. He became a Republican Party activist and a personal friend of Richard Nixon. Among his other accomplishments, he perpetrated the single largest stock fraud in California’s history. He squirmed out of the charges when a patsy took the fall for him. Later he was partners in a defense electronics company called TCI with Iran-contra figures Richard Secord and (Iranian Jew) Albert Hakim.

What a guy, huh? For details, see:

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/mbtape11,22,81,520.htm

* * * * *

Then there was Menachem Begin, terrorist extrordinaire, who later was elected to the highest office in the land.

Before that, he waged war against Hitler enemies.

See:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/irgun.html

Irgun Zeva'i Le'umi
“The National Military Organization” (Etzel, I.Z.L.)

(snip)

From 1943 Etzel was headed by Menachem Begin. In February 1944, Etzel declared war against the British administration. It attacked and blew up government offices, military installations and police stations.

(snip)

* * * * *

Begin was not just a founding father of Israel, but also the butcher of Deir Yassin, Palestine’s very own Lidice:


See:

http://www.deiryassin.org/mas.html

(snip)

Early in the morning of Friday, April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun, headed by Menachem Begin, and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. It was several weeks before the end of the British Mandate. The village lay outside of the area that the United Nations recommended be included in a future Jewish State. Deir Yassin had a peaceful reputation and was even said by a Jewish newspaper to have driven out some Arab militants. But it was located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and one plan, kept secret until years afterwards, called for it to be destroyed and the residents evacuated to make way for a small airfield that would supply the beleaguered Jewish residents of Jerusalem.

By noon over 100 people, half of them women and children, had been systematically murdered. Four commandos died at the hands of resisting Palestinians using old Mausers and muskets. Twenty-five male villagers were loaded into trucks, paraded through the Zakhron Yosef quarter in Jerusalem, and then taken to a stone quarry along the road between Givat Shaul and Deir Yassin and shot to death. The remaining residents were driven to Arab East Jerusalem.

That evening the Irgunists and the Sternists escorted a party of foreign correspondents to a house at Givat Shaul, a nearby Jewish settlement founded in 1906. Over tea and cookies they amplified the details of the operation and justified it, saying Deir Yassin had become a concentration point for Arabs, including Syrians and Iraqis, planning to attack the western suburbs of Jerusalem. They said that 25 members of the Haganah militia had reinforced the attack and claimed that an Arabic-speaking Jew had warned the villagers over a loudspeaker from an armored car. This was duly reported in The New York Times on April 10.

A final body count of 254 was reported by The New York Times on April 13, a day after they were finally buried. By then the leaders of the Haganah had distanced themselves from having participated in the attack and issued a statement denouncing the dissidents of Irgun and the Stern Gang, just as they had after the attack on the King David Hotel in July 1946. A 1987 study undertaken by Birzeit University's Center for Research and Documentation of Palestinian Society found "the numbers of those killed does not exceed 120".

The Haganah leaders admitted that the massacre "disgraced the cause of Jewish fighters and dishonored Jewish arms and the Jewish flag." They played down the fact that their militia had reinforced the terrorists' attack, even though they did not participate in the barbarism and looting during the subsequent "mopping up" operations.

They also played down the fact that, in Begin's words, "Deir Yassin was captured with the knowledge of the Haganah and with the approval of its commander" as a part of its "plan for establishing an airfield."

Ben Gurion even sent an apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But this horrific act served the future State of Israel well. According to Begin, “Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe wild tales of ‘Irgun butchery,’ were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated.”

(snip)

Of about 144 houses, 10 were dynamited. The cemetery was later bulldozed and, like hundreds of other Palestinian villages to follow, Deir Yassin was wiped off the map. By September, Orthodox Jewish immigrants from Poland, Rumania, and Slovakia were settled there over the objections of Martin Buber, Cecil Roth and other Jewish leaders, who believed that the site of the massacre should be left uninhabited. The center of the village was renamed Givat Shaul Bet. As Jerusalem expanded, the land of Deir Yassin became part of the city and is now known simply as the area between Givat Shaul and the settlement of Har Nof on the western slopes of the mountain.

The massacre of Palestinians at Deir Yassin is one of the most significant events in 20th-century Palestinian and Israeli history. This is not because of its size or its brutality, but because it stands as the starkest early warning of a calculated depopulation of over 400 Arab villages and cities and the expulsion of over 700,000 Palestinian inhabitants to make room for survivors of the Holocaust and other Jews from the rest of the world.

(snip)


* * * * *

Then there was Yitzhak Shamir . . .


http://www.marxists.de/middleast/ironwall/15-shamir.htm

(snip)

Shamir’s Background

(snip)

. . . was born Yitzhak Yzernitzky, in Rozeny, in what is now Byelorussia, in 1915.

(snip)

Little is known of his Irgun career, but one incident stands out. In 1938 Yzernitzky and a 15-year-old recruit, Eliyahu Bet Zouri, tried to blow up a WZO defence fund collection booth which levied a toll on Jewish travellers leaving Tel Aviv. They planted a crude gunpowder bomb which went off prematurely, severely burning Bet Zouri’s legs and scorching the face of Israel’s future Prime Minister. But this bizarre incident was a mere nothing compared to his career as a leading figure in the “Stern Gang”.

(snip)

* * * * *

>a 15-year-old recruit,

Just in case you were wondering who first armed children in Palestine.

There he goes again, trying to distract you from the eager Arab cooperation with the Nazis during the Holocaust. Ask yourselves why he's trying to do that. Don't fall for it.

There he goes again, trying to distract you from the eager Zionist cooperation with the Nazis during the Holocaust. Ask yourselves why he's trying to do that. Don't fall for it.

That you're reduced to aping the post above yours is a testament that you've got no argument. The Fieval Polkes character was a low-ranking idiot who happened to be a Zionist who cooperated in some capacity with the Nazis. Hardly proves eager Zionist cooperation with the Nazis. This is all your 'nessie' hero can show for his sweeping claims, so he has never proven his case.

all you have to do is enter into a search engine the following
Zionist +Nazis +Eichmann

you may encounter this article
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1159
"51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis"

Review by William Hughes

History can be deceptive. It’s fair to say that some of the sensational never-published-before documents, in this book, will shock those who have accepted Zionism and its supposed history, at face value, as a political movement that was the hope of the Jews. Lenni Brenner, the intrepid author of “Zionism in the Age of Dictators,” reveals disturbing new evidence in his latest effort, that suggest just the opposite. In fact, he makes a compelling case that the Zionist record was “dishonorable.” You can consider this excellent tome as a worthy sequel to his first expose’ on the myopic Zionist zealots of that bygone era.

For openers, Brenner showed how the Zionists had a long history of shameless cooperation with the Nazis, especially after the dictator Adolph Hitler had came to power in 1933. The Zionists were also in bed, to some extent, with the other members of what later became known as WWII’s “Axis of Evil,” that included Benito Mussolini’s Italy, and Tojo Hideki’s Japan. For example, on March 29,1936, Zionists praised Il Duce, and his regime, at the opening of a maritime school, funded by the Fascist government, at Civitavecchia. This is where a Zionist youth group, the “Betar,” trained its sailors for the future Revisionist state. The speakers ignored the fact that on Oct. 3, 1935, Italian troops had invaded Abyssinia.

On another front, the “Third Congress of the Jewish Community of the Far East,” was held in Jan., 1940, in Harbin, Manchuria, then reeling under a brutal military occupation by the Japanese imperial forces. At that time, too, Tokyo was already aligned with Hitler and Italy’s Mussolini, in the notorious Anti-Comintern Pact. Also, keep in mind, that the Japanese’s murderous “Rape of Nanking,” had occurred in Dec., 1937, and the “Crystal Night” incident on Nov. 9, 1938. Nevertheless, the Zionist confab went out of its way to legitimize the Japanese occupation by certifying it as a guarantor of the “equality of all citizens,” in that beleaguered land.

Sometimes it's amazing what a twilight zone Indymedia can be.

The Nazis made extremely clear what their plan for the Jewish homeland was: to destroy it, and murder its Jews. They said so again and again. Not only is that established historical fact, it's absolutely in line with what we know about Nazism and their genocidal plans.

But in the weird and wonderful world of Indymedia, finding one or two unknown Jews somewhere somehow associated with the Nazis completely outweighs and overbalances every other known fact of history.

Why? Because folks like nessie and sheepdog aren't interested in history, except for what little pieces of it they can rip out of context as a way to vent their fundamentally antisemitic rage against Israel. And sometimes, as in this case, the results are downright surreal.

@%<

Nazis ‘shipped arms to Palestinians’

British National Archives unveil presence of Nazi S.S. agents in Mandatory Palestine, working closely with Palestinian leaders

Yaakov Lappin

Historical documents in Britain’s National Archives in London show that Nazi Germany attempted to ship arms to Palestinian forces in the 1930s.

A British Foreign Office report from 1939 reports of “news of a consignment of arms from Germany, sent via Turkey and addressed to Ibn Saud (king of Saudi Arabia), but really intended for the Palestine insurgents.” Britain’s chief military officer in Mandatory Palestine also noted reports “regarding import of German arms at intervals for some years now.”

British documents from the same period, and German records photographed by an American spy and sent to the British government, said that a number of Nazi agents were sent to Mandatory Palestine, in order to forge alliances with Palestinian leaders, and urge them to reject a partition of the land between the Jewish and Arab populations.

One Nazi agent, Adam Vollhardt, arrived in Palestine in July 1938, and was reported to have gained strong influence with Arab leaders, meeting with Palestinian leaders throughout 1938. Vollhardt held several meetings with leading Arab politicians and told them “that the Palestine question would be settled to the satisfaction of the Arabs within a few weeks,” adding that “it would be fatal to their (Palestinians’) cause if at this juncture they showed any signs of weakness or exhaustion.”

“Germany was interested in the settlement of the (Palestine) question on the basis of the Arabs obtaining their full demands,” Vollhardt was reported to say to Palestinian leaders, according to a report by the British War Office. Vollhardt also assured Arab leaders that “the Germans could continue to support the Palestinian Arab cause by means of propaganda.”

German documents photographed and sent to Whitehall by an American spy revealed that in 1937, German officials had calculated that “Palestine under Arab rule would… become one of the few countries where we could count on a strong sympathy for the new Germany.”

‘Arabs admire our Fuhrer’

“The Palestinian Arabs show on all levels a great sympathy for the new Germany and its Fuhrer, a sympathy whose value is particularly high as it is based on a purely ideological foundation,” a Nazi official in Palestine wrote in a letter to Berlin in 1937. He added: “Most important for the sympathies which Arabs now feel towards Germany is their admiration for our Fuhrer, especially during the unrests, I often had an opportunity to see how far these sympathies extend. When faced with a dangerous behaviour of an Arab mass, when one said that one was German, this was already generally a free pass.”

A second Nazi agent, Dr. Franz Reichart, was reported to be actively working with Palestinian Arabs by the British Criminal Investigation Division “to help coordinate Arab and German propaganda.” Reichart was also head of the German Telegraphic Agency in Jerusalem.

German records show that the Nazis viewed the establishment of a Jewish state with great concern. A 1937 report from German General Consulate in Palestine said: “The formation of a Jewish state… is not in Germany’s interest because a (Jewish) Palestinian state would create additional national power bases for international Jewry such as for example the Vatican State for political Catholicism or Moscow for the Communists. Therefore, there is a German interest in strengthening the Arabs as a counter weight against such possible power growth of the Jews.”

Jewish refugees abandoned

The records also show that the news of increased Nazi-Arab cooperation panicked the British government, and caused it to cancel a plan in 1938 to bring to Palestine 20,000 German Jewish refugees, half of them children, facing danger from the Nazis.

Documents show that after deciding that the move would upset Arab opinion, Britain decided to abandon the Jewish refugees to their fate.

“His Majesty’s Government asked His Majesty’s Representatives in Cairo, Baghdad and Jeddah whether so far as they could judge, feelings in Egypt, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia against the admission of, say 5,000 Jewish children for adoption… would be so strong as to lead to a refusal to send representatives to the London discussions. All three replies were strongly against the proposal, which was not proceeded with,” a Foreign Office report said.

“If war were to break out, no trouble that the Jews could occasion us, in Palestine or elsewhere, could weigh for a moment against the importance of winning Muslim opinion to our side,” Britain’s Minister for Coordination of Defence, Lord Chatfield, told the British cabinet in 1939, shortly before Britain reversed its decision to partition its mandate, promising instead all of the land to the Palestinian Arabs.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3248081,00.html

He has been exposed as engaging in lopsided scholarship. Namely, all the conclusions of his research are those casting Zionists in negative light. He does this by mistreating the data, his original sources. So he's not a reliable source.

He gives footnote references, but the footnotes often don't check out. These footnotes are counted by readers like you who deem them as evidence of great scholarship. You don't comment at all about the substance of his material. A mere appearance of learning, the sheer amount of footnote references is what tends to impress you and leads you to judge his work to be "meticulously documented". What is the function of such footnoting? How does prose with such footnotes differ from prose without it?

I don't trust anything coming from your Lenni Brenner comrade. He has a huge anti-Zionist agenda and truth seekers would be foolish to try to learn history from his writings without checking them against other sources. The same logic that your cohorts employ to besmirch Zionist sources should be used to dismiss brazenly anti-Zionist ones like Brenner. That remains in effect no matter how much pleasure you derive from mocking my nym.

that was interesting.
a simple search engine query
Nazi +Zionism
Brings up the following, among many others:
Source : Bar Zohar. "Le prophète armé-- : Ben Gourion." (Fayard. Paris 1966, p.99.)

When the war against Hitler began, almost all the Jewish organizations joined forces with the Allies and some of the most eminent leaders, such as Weizmann, declared themselves on the allied side; but the German Zionist group, though it was a small minority at the time, took the opposite side : from 1933 to 1941, it was committed to a policy of compromise and even of collaboration with Hitler. The Nazi authorities, even while they persecuted the Jews, for example by dismissing them from the Civil Service, kept contact with the Zionist leaders, granting them special treatment and distinguishing them from the "integrationist" Jews they were hunting down.

The accusation of collusion with the Hitlerian authorities does not therefore apply to the immense majority of Jews; these had not even waited until the war to fight Fascism with weapons, as they did in Spain from 1936 to 1939 as members of the International brigades, all the way to the Warsaw ghetto where the fighters of the "Jewish Committee" showed that they knew how to die in battle.

But the highly organized minority of Zionist leaders collaborated with the Nazis for eight years. Their one goal was to create a powerful Jewish State, while their racist vision of the world made them more anti-British than anti-Nazi.

Once again they demonstrate what fundamentally dishonest people they are:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

Do you even know how to think and critically examine the material you stumble upon? No. You appear to find something that seems to substatiate your allegation on the surface but actually doesn't, and then splash it onto the thread.

The German Zionsts were in a delicate position. They were trying to control the damage being wrought by the Nazis on the Jews there so that the Jews would be able to emigrate with as much of their property as possible. How dare they try to dissuade the Nazis from exterminating their co-religionists and confiscating their property!

I've done the Google search you speak of and found other instances of Zionist-Nazi "cooperation", all with the motive of trying to save as many Jewish lives they could from murder. But all these Zionists and the people they managed to save are assholes because they didn't accept the would-be murdered fate and dared be proactive in a manner Jews aren't supposed to be, because they had been assigned the role of passive assholes. How dare they revolt against it?

Once again he demonstrates what a fundamentally dishonest person he is:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1962248

(snip)

Sometimes he takes something that a Zionist has written, subtly alters its meaning by changing a few words, and posts it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

Well then, I guess it was okay.
As long as only the upper class, you know, the wealthy moronity parasites and pirates, made a bargain which you implied didn't exist with the Nazis.
The rest, you know, the ones who wouldn't or couldn't sell out, should have wised up.
Omelets and broken eggs, you know.

When they can't convince you with their lie, they try to drown out the converstaion with noise.

When you collaborate with Nazis, it doesn't matter what your motives are. You're evil, and should die. The *evil* collaboration of the Zionists may, repeat may, have saved a few Jews their lives, but it it did so at the cost of many lives of other people, bith Jews and non Jews. There is *no* excuse for collaborating with Nazis, ever. It is *never* moral. It is *always evil. The only good collaborator is a dead collaborator.

You said: "the upper class, you know, the wealthy moronity parasites and pirates,..."

You've got to be kidding.

Most people who are wealthy are wealthy because they are smart and industrious. They actually worked for it. This explains why you despise the wealthy. It is leftists like you, who want to create a welfare state, who are creating an entire society of parasites.

What a crock. You can bet 'nessie' would approve of non-Jewish negotiations with Nazis under the same circumstances. He can now pull the wool over your eyes only because of the benefit of hindsight. So 'nessie' proves himself yet agaiin as a racist, but from a new angle.

The moral? Ignore Lee Doyle's histrionic stump speech. Death to 'nessie'.

"When you collaborate with Nazis, it doesn't matter what your motives are. You're evil, and should die. "

... and, as nessie leaves unstated but clearly believes, so should the people whose lives you were trying to save in the deal.

It's another one of those cases where nessie takes an abstract stance and uses it to justify the deaths of Jews.

Funny how that works.

@%<

Bring it on, *sshole. I would *love* a legal excuse to blow off your head. Make it sporting. Wear a vest.

If you're so physically tough and brave and not a coward and a weakling as you come across on IMCs, come to Israel. I'll be waiting without a vest. Bring a body bag with you. Now you'll have another excuse to go on a rabid antisemitic rant, because I won't even do any time.

No, I will not be baited into breaking the law. In this state, I can only kill your sorry ass in self defense. Otherwise, I'll in trouble. I disagree with this law, but I'm not going to break it, because I can do people like you, and your sick, evil cause, more harm if I'm not in prison.

Besides, the more often you threaten my life without making an actual attempt on it, the more people will realize what liars you are.

So come on, threaten my life again. Better still, make a real attempt. I'm ready, waiting and eager.

'nessie' submitted about conducting a duel and anything on that subject that follows. That's clearly off the thread's topic. The bandwidth here shouldn't be wasted on Lee Doyle's puerile violent fantasies.

Either inherited or stolen.
Yup
look up the book
THE RICH AND THE SUPER- RICH
by Lundberg

Polarization of wealth is now at levels ( like the upper 1% commanding 90% of all commerce ) of rapine that can only fracture this nation.
Wait till food prices soar.

It is most definitely on the topic. Zionists proceed with their agenda by intimidating their enemies with the very credible threat of violence. When that doesn't work, they kill people. That's their MO. They threaten my life repeatedly. I am making it abundantly clear that, in my case at least, this enemy of Zionism will *not* be intimidate into being silent, looking on and doing nothing.

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." --Albert Einstein

"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends"

Chaver- you are half a world away. Face it. There is nothing you can do to Nessie.
Leave it to me and Megafauna. We can handle him. We are thinking of tying him up and reading him bad poetry . (There are things worse than death, you know).
Are you quaking in your jackboots, Nessie?

We'd do it in your name, if you'd like. If we knew it.....

That's what the last guys said.

An ad hominem is not a rebuttal.

So lets set up a time and place.
We'll even give you the choice- bad poetry or "Firefly"?
We'll be unarmed, but there will be two of us.
What do you say?

His silence says he fears us.
We' ll leave it at that.

not worthy of response.

But you have no trouble bothering to answer a person half a world away, so I know you are lying.
You already know we are fearless.
You already know we are local.
I think what you are afraid of is that we will be too supremely adorable to hate, much as you try.
Thats ok, then. You'd be right.


"I'll be waiting without a vest."
by wont work Tuesday, May. 09, 2006 at 10:20 AM

No, I will not be baited into breaking the law. In this state, I can only kill your sorry ass in self defense. Otherwise, I'll in trouble. I disagree with this law, but I'm not going to break it, because I can do people like you, and your sick, evil cause, more harm if I'm not in prison.

Besides, the more often you threaten my life without making an actual attempt on it, the more people will realize what liars you are.

So come on, threaten my life again. Better still, make a real attempt. I'm ready, waiting and eager.

He works over at Bound Together Books on the Haight in San Francisco.

An ad hominem is not a rebuttal. It's a way to change the subject. Don't fall for it.

Any chance you've got a cell phone equiped with a camera? That should be the easiest way to capture his image short of walking around with a concealed camera trying to make a still photo at the right moment.


Of course 'nessie' maintains that all Zionists are racist and therefore evil and accordingly should die. As a logical consequence he's gone on record in Indybay a few times inciting violence against pro-Israel demostrators. But when someone comes wishing for his own death he'll challenge them to a duel, because in his own self-exalted deluded mind he's exquisitely righteous and is therefore never allowed to be wished dead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek

(snip)

Genocide of the Amalekites

As the Jewish Encyclopedia put it, "David waged a sacred war of extermination against the Amalekites," who subsequently disappeared from history. Long after, in the time of Hezekiah, five hundred Simeonites annihilated the last remnant "of the Amalekites that had escaped" on Mount Seir, and settled in their place (1 Chr. 4:42-43).

(snip)

The Jews' manner of dealing with them was extreme, as they could be shown no mercy. Women, children and animals were slain, and no slaves or gold could be taken from them. Rather all were killed, and their valuables were burned. In fact in the account, King Saul lost his divine favour on account that he failed to be sufficiently thorough in the destruction.

(snip)

At the times of kings Saul, David and Hezekiah, there only existed an Israelite people but not a Jewish one and the Torah's five books were yet to be editied and accepted as a binding document, ergo the genocide was an Israelite act rather than a Jewish one.

Nessie discourages dialog
1. in person
2. on Indy media

for one reason only. It is only by humanizing our enemies , by interacting with them and engaging in dialog that we realize that the ties that bind us together are stronger than the ones than tear us apart. It is through dialog we reach understanding. Nessie discourages dialog on all IMC sites, and has eliminated it on his own, simply beacuse he does not care about peace. He has an agenda to further, and it is not about peace.

If peace is your goal, talk to everyone. More importantly, listen to everyone. Never let haters like Nessie influence you. His is not the path of peace.

In the Pentateuch, the Amalekites are nomads who attacked the Hebrews at Rephidim in the desert of Sinai during their exodus from Egypt: "smiting the hindmost, all that were feeble behind"

tia: "It is only by humanizing our enemies , by interacting with them and engaging in dialog that we realize that the ties that bind us together are stronger than the ones than tear us apart."

But to engage in dialog, you have to be able to listen, and if there's one thing that I've seen again and again about nessie, it's that he was born bereft of the listening gene, but tries to make up for it by talking twice as loud.

@%<

reading this interesting thread from the beginning I wonder if gehrig is a bot?
Molly is great. Crub this practice or just let thugs into the house of our people.

Dialog with racists is *very* bad politics. It's also a complete waste of time. They lie constantly. Notice how they contradict themselves in this very thread:

>the genocide was an Israelite act rather than a Jewish one.

Here they deny connection with the ancient Israelites when they don't want to look like genocidal invaders. But other times, when it's convenient, they invoke the ancient Israelites to demonstrate Jewish continuity in Palestine, just as if continuity somehow justified ethnic cleansing.

People like this cannot be reasoned with. They're fanatic cultists. You may as well try to reason with a Moonie or someone from the RCP.

The only moral response to racists it complete and total hostility. Anything less is immoral. This goes for all racists, be they Zionists, Nazis, Chetniks, the KKK, the Interahamwe, or whatever. A racist is a racist is a racist. Away with them all.

In other words, the Hebrews invaded their territory and the Amalekites resisted, using guerilla tactics, exactly like the Russians used when the French invaded, and again when the Germans invaded, exactly like the Vietnamese used against the US when it invaded their country back in the last century, exactly like the Iraqis are using on the Anglo-American expeditionary force in their country today, exactly like the Palestinians are using on the Zionist invaders of Palestine today. Good for them. That's how invaders should *always* be dealt with.

They attacked the women, the children and the old people. Very noble.

(An ad hominem is not a rebuttal...)

>the genocide was an Israelite act rather than a Jewish one.

"Here they deny connection with the ancient Israelites when they don't want to look like genocidal invaders. But other times, when it's convenient, they invoke the ancient Israelites to demonstrate Jewish continuity in Palestine, just as if continuity somehow justified ethnic cleansing. blah blah blah cluck cluck"

(1.) This is bunk logic. It's not the case that "they" deny being decended from some of the Israelites. The point that 'nessie' wants to conceal from you is that more than 500 centuries separate the Israelites who perpetrated the Amaleq genocide prior to 1000 BC from the acceptance of the Torah as a sacred and binding code by the Israelites' distant descendants, the Jews (444 BC).

(2.) "They" aren't a monolithic nor a heterogenic group marching in lockstep. Some of "them" distinguish the Israelites, who were yet to even consider the then-existing Torah segments sacred, from their ancient Jewish progeny whose religion's very basis is the Pentateuch that was only canonized in 444 BC. Others do not, for whatever reasons, make this distinction. To conflate the two is another exercise in bunk logic.


>the Amalekites are nomads who attacked the Hebrews at Rephidim in the desert of Sinai

"In other words, the Hebrews invaded their territory and the Amalekites resisted, cluck cluck cluck"

Yet more bunk logic. Where in Exodus does it say the Hebrews invaded Amaleq territory? Cite a URL. Be specific.

"using guerilla tactics, exactly like the Russians used when the French invaded, and again when the Germans invaded, exactly like the Vietnamese used against the US when it invaded their country back in the last century, blah blah blah"

Still more bunk logic. Pray tell, what verse/s led you to this deduction?

Death to Amaleq. Death to 'nessie'.

That should read "more than 5 centuries".

Stealing.
Not polite.
That goes for a people's land as well as an alias. Pushy and dishonest.
'nuf said.

In fact it says it all. As well as the death threats.

Out of one side of their mouth they invoke the ancient Israelites and out of the other, they deny them. How typical. These people are two faced. They lie as a routine practice. This is just another example. "By way of deception" they wage war. They would have you believe that when the ancient Israelite invaded the Sinai, that the inhabitants should not have resisted. They would have you believe that when the modern Israelis invaded Palestine, that the inhabitants should not have resisted. Their mentality is the mentality of people who believe they are the master race, to which the standards by which other people are judged don't apply. They are to Jews what Nazis are to Germans, an embarrassment to otherwise admirable people. And they are evil. They don't belong in Indymedia and their propaganda does not belong on Indymedia bandwidth.

For more about the ancient Israelites, read scripture. What you'll find is one atrocity after another:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html

Only moral reprobates would look up to people like this, let alone invoke them as a justification for actions today.

Why should those who incite racial hatred feel that they should be immune?

So these inciters of racial hatred now accept Torah as historically accurate? It must be true as there is no archeological record of the Amalekites whatsoever other than Torah. This is a great step forward!

this is the most off topic, wandering, ignorant thread i think ive ever read on the subject. i cant even follow the logic in most of the posts. congrats to all involved.

p.s.-name calling and saying fuck every other sentence makes you look like a total tool in case you all didnt know.

nessie the Jew-hater: "They lie as a routine practice. This is just another example. "By way of deception" they wage war. "

How lovely that you follow the accusation that "they" lie with a lie of your own.

"By way of deception you shall do war," we're told, is the Mossad motto.

Just one problem. It ain't.

http://www.mossad.gov.il/Mohr/MohrTopNav/MohrEnglish/MohrAboutUs/

Proverbs 24:6 ain't the Mossad motto any more. And what's more, even when it was, it didn't say "By way of deception." Go ahead, look in your own Bible and check it out. Or look here:

http://scripturetext.com/proverbs/24-6.htm

But "by way of deception" is one of those lies that places like the cesspit SF-IMC are neck-deep in, and folks like nessie the Jew-hater, always happy to embrace another antisemitic lie, just eat it up and then beg for more.

@%<

"They would have you believe that when the ancient Israelite invaded the Sinai, that the inhabitants should not have resisted. "

This clearly is not what "they" maintain. Yet 'nessie' insist they do. Ask yourselves why he feels the need to lie so compulsively.

'nessie' keeps churning out one lie after another with each lie followed by a strawman. Worse, he's totally aware he's spouting out lies and topiing them off with vile lying racist propaganda spew. He hasn't had the balls to answer the questions put to him.

Let's review:

1) "In other words, the Hebrews invaded their territory and the Amalekites resisted, cluck cluck cluck"

Yet more bunk logic. Where in Exodus does it say the Hebrews invaded Amaleq territory? Cite a URL. Be specific.

2) "using guerilla tactics, exactly like the Russians used when the French invaded, and again when the Germans invaded, exactly like the Vietnamese used against the US when it invaded their country back in the last century, blah blah blah"

Still more bunk logic. Pray tell, what verse/s led you to this deduction?

Still waiting for 'nessie' to give replies. Will he be brave enough to do it?

PS: "only moral reprobates would look up to people like this..."
Questions: you mean people like Jotham, son of Gideon, who delivered a riveting speech jam-packed with morality? You mean Jonathan, son of King Saul, who protected David from his dad's jealousy? You mean Moses and his brother Aaron? You mean kings like Hezekiah and Josiah?

the best part about this argument: its a fairy tale. they are all superstitions....the bible, the koran, the torah. how many more people have to die over something as ridiculous as a dude with a big beard in the clouds, a devil with a pitch fork and magical angels. wow... arent we past all that nonsense. how about the unicorns any one into that? that makes just as much sense. heres one: why is it that greek and roman beliefs are referred to as "mythology" but christianity in its many faces referred to as "religion"....referred to as if it was somehow fact. it sounds as logical as jack and the bean stalk and dragons if you ask me. what a waste of time, energy and life.

wheres the proof that ANY of this stuff is real? a stupid boat that sailed around and saved all of humanity and its animals. cmon! ive got one word for all of you: DINOSAURS. how about that? where do they fit in to your harebrained religions? they dont. why? because people made that stuff up. back when they thought the earth was flat and there was some red dude with a fork under it burnin bad people up. its a bed time story. no need to fight and die over it. just read a book or two. science, anthropology and archeology will tell you all about it. lets move on.

You can believe gehrig if you want. I believe Ostrovsky.

Once again they demonstrate what fundamentally dishonest people they are:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

Once again he demonstrates what fundamentally dishonest a person he is:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1962248

(snip)

Sometimes he takes something that a Zionist has written, subtly alters its meaning by changing a few words, and posts it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

This is an appeal to anti-Zionist sentiment through the invocation of an anti-Zionist darling, i.e. bunk logic.

Gehrig didn't tell a lie.

When was that?
I've been reading the entire thread waiting for this and now you tell me I missed it.
Damn it.

You show us where he lied. Post it here so we can have a few laughs on your account.

Clue me in on when he told the truth.
So far ... like I said , I missed it.

You were issued a challenge and you react by promptly issuing a counter-challenge instead of taking up the first. Congrats. Quick.... find another escape hatch to slink through now.

nessie the Jew-hater: "You can believe gehrig if you want. I believe Ostrovsky."

Spoken like a true five-year-old. Simple numb thumbs-in-the-ears denial.

But isn't that just what you'd expect from such a closed-minded bigot? "To hell with evidence. I'll believe what I want to believe, despite gehrig's documentation."

Don't take my word for it. Check it yourselves, folks. Here's the former Mossad seal. I've just checked it against my Hebrew Bible, and it's letter-for-letter a phrase from Proverbs 24:6. I posted a link to half a dozen different translations and the Hebrew original (http://scripturetext.com/proverbs/24-6.htm), and not a single one said, "by deception." If you're running a Mac, or some other OS that lets you display the Hebrew text on that site, you can compare it for yourself.

Why is nessie so eager, not only to embrace a lie, but to spread it, and to attack me for disproving it?

There was a time when I could have offered several different theories. But the more of nessie I read, the more I think the answer is exactly what it looks like: it's because he hates the Jews.

@%<

See:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/151186_comment.php#156647

Now, _that's_ the most pathetic rejoinder I've ever seen from nessie, and that's saying quite a lot. When he's been caught red-handed spreading antisemitic lies, and caught in a way so well-documented that anyone who knows how to click links can see for himself or herself that nessie is indeed an antisemitic liar, he shrugs and says "noise."

He doesn't even try to dispute that he's been caught in an antisemitic lie. Know why? Because he can't, not with all the evidence laid out like that.

@%<

See:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/151186_comment.php#156654

Sultan Renews Islam Critique — in English

Psychiatrist, writer and activist Dr. Wafa Sultan, a Syrian expatriate and “American-by-choice,” has become one of the most famous Muslim heretics in modern times. And she did it in a thoroughly modern way condeming Islam during two television apperances, the most recent on Feb. 21, on Arab television network al-Jazeera.

In her televised comments, in Arabic, she called the “clash” between Islam and the West “a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality.”

Last week, in Los Angeles, she spoke in a public forum for the first time in English, at an appearance hosted by the conservative-leaning Center for the Study of Popular Culture.

“I have lost hope for Islam and I think it’s the duty of all thinkers to be blunt and straightforward to change the minds of Muslims,” she said confidently, flanked by two bodyguards, to a receptive audience of about 150 at the Luxe Hotel on Sunset Boulevard.

Time magazine counted Sultan, 47, as among the world’s 100 most influential people for pioneering public criticism of Islam by Muslims. That she is a woman makes her voice almost unique in the Muslim world, which she characterizes as routinely suppressing women. This outspokenness has resulted in frequent death threats against Sultan, who lives in a suburb of Los Angeles. Some Muslims reformers, on the other hand, have praised her.

The daughter of devout Muslims, Sultan first began to question Islam as a medical student at the University of Aleppo, where she witnessed members of the radical Muslim Brotherhood political group shoot dead her professor while shouting “Allah is great.” She and her husband immigrated to the United States in 1989. She describes her mission as educating the world about what she calls the dangers of Islam and fostering an intellectual rebellion among “oppressed” and “brainwashed” Muslims.

“There is no moderate Islam at all because Islam is different from any other religion,” Sultan said. “They believe the Quran is the absolute word of God and we’re not supposed to play with it or change it.”

In addition, she said, in Islam religion and politics are intertwined, making state enforcement of Islam a religious goal among devout Muslims in any country. Islam, she said, “shouldn’t be classified as just a religion but a policy which applies its teachings violently.”

Sultan didn’t reserve her criticism for Islam alone. She faulted President George W. Bush for referring to Islam as a religion of peace. She said that America has the responsibility and right to lead the ideological change that needs to occur among Muslims, to liberate them, but through “books — not only tanks.”

“We don’t only need [Donald] Rumsfeld, but we need Dr. Phil and Oprah,” she remarked, to applause and laughter.

She’s working on her third book, “The Escaped Prisoner: When God Is a Monster,” which, she said, will examine the ideology of Islam from a scientific perspective.

Tammy Bruce, feminist and conservative radio host on KABC, moderated the question-and-answer period at the May 3 event. The subject of Israel and its future in West Bank came up in a question.

“The problem is not the land,” she said, “it’s deeply rooted in the hatred [of the Jews] in the Islamic teachings.” — Orit Arfa, Contributing Writer

And that, gentile people should tell you all you need to know about these dishonest zionists
Not happy with cherry picking some distraction to point away from the Israeli murder machine, they have to insert racist implications to this very piece of anti- Islamic sewage.


[screw you ]

I thought you had already begun an Islamic bashing thread.
This thread is for Israeli atrocities.
Why would they bother making gas chambers for the Palestinians?
It's cheaper to just grind them into the dirt when they're not being shot for fun.

Alas to your hatist propaganda mill, there's never been even one instance where a Palestinian was shot for fun. Except in blatantly anti-Israel sources with a huge anti-Israel bias, that is.

Anyway, this is alternative media and I commend the person that cast light on that brave Sultan who probably doesn't get any exposure in the mainstream media, without starting another thread for this purpose only to get hidden in a matter of 12 hours tops. The fact that people like you act with dismay is sad but also an indication that this medium is being used for more positive purposes than incessant Israel bashing.

No never!
Oh, never?
Well, hardly ever.....
If it's not for fun then shooting children and unarmed civilians must be a labor of love, then.
It never ceases to amaze me how the Zionist Lobby and it's adhereants will never, ever admit ANY blame for their crimes.
What crimes, they ask all wide eyed and innocent while another sniper shots another woman or child or another bulldozer crushes another life or a rocket and or artillery attack hits another crowded ghetto in occupied Palestine.
Who, us? -blink blink -

Your spiel is aptly descriptive of the Palestinian lobby's modus operandi. No...actually it goes a few steps better: they invert cause and effect, aggressor and victim. So they find no need to roll eyes heavenward and ask "what cold blooded murder?" feigning naivete.

The one redeeming factor I can find for misled consumers of mainstream and "alternative" media like you is that post-Zionist/anti-Zionist journalists in Ha'aretz have done much to impart an anti-Israel slant to other media outlets throughout the globe. Little wonder that Indybay.org and its ilk tolerate articles from no Israeli medium except Ha'aretz.

Note, Palestine in proper usage in the minimalist geographic dimensions in effect at present (meaning not counting Jordan) is a designation for what's today Israel + the disputed territories. This is a matter of fact, not spin. The spin would be to insist that Palestine is the disputed territories. Yes, despite popular perception, these territories are disputed as per int'l law and UNSCR #242 derivative, not occupied.

Zionism: A Conspiracy Against Jews

By Henry Makow Ph.D.
June 27, 2004

In 1935 the steamer "Tel Aviv" made its maiden voyage from Nazi Germany to Haifa with Hebrew letters on its bow and a Nazi flag fluttering from its mast. The Captain of the Zionist-owned ship was a member of the Nazi Party. A passenger described the spectacle as a "metaphysical absurdity."
Actually it made perfect sense.

The ship transported German Jews who had taken advantage of the "Haavara" program, which allowed them to exchange their money for its value in Germany products in Palestine. As a result, the fledgling Jewish colony received about 70,000 highly educated German Jews and 140 million Reichmarks worth of German industrial equipment. This laid the foundation of Israel's infrastructure.
The arrangement also boosted the Nazi economy at a time when Jews worldwide were boycotting German products. (My main source is "The Secret Contacts" by Klaus Polkehn a prominent German journalist. It is included in Olivia O'Grady's The Beasts of the Apocalyse, 2001, 421-447.)

Why retell this story of Zionist-Nazi cooperation now?
Because "Jewish" leaders have been exploiting their "lesser brethren" for a long time, and are doing so today. Ordinary Jews pay the price and this price could rise.

In my opinion, Zionism is a movement to deceive Jews into advancing the objectives of British imperialism. (See, "The Jewish Conspiracy is British Imperialism") Zionists who have built their lives on a false premise naturally will reject this view.

Specifically, Jews helped the British-Jewish elite colonize the oil-rich Middle East under the pretext of Jews needing a national home. Despite the appearance of neutrality, the British (and Americans) financed, trained and equipped the Jews. (John Coleman, Diplomacy by Deception p. 107.)

The "British" are really the London-based international banking cartel associated with names like Rothschild and Rockefeller. It doesn't answer to any government. Its goal is to colonize the world and everyone in it. Jews are a means to this end.

As seen in Iraq, Zionists (a.k.a Neocons) play a major role in the colonization of the Middle East. The important thing to remember is that Israel is the creation of this cartel; both Israel and the US are its tools.

Iraq is only a phase in the emerging New World Order, which represents a continuation of the goals of "British" imperialism. John Kerry will take up in Iraq where George Bush leaves off. Democracy is a charade.

NAZIS MADE-TO-MEASURE FOR ZIONISM

In 1925, Germany's 500,000 Jews were overwhelmingly indifferent or actively hostile to Zionism. The German Zionist movement had only 9000 members.
The "Central Union of Germans of the Jewish Faith " represented most German Jews and favored active participation in German life. Its main focus was combating anti-Semitism.

Zionists, on the other hand, welcomed the Nazis' anti Semitic policies. Like the Nazis, they believed in race-based national character and destiny. Like the Nazis, they believed Jews had no future in Germany.

The Zionists did not protest Nazi persecution such as the removal of 2000 Jewish scholars and scientists from German universities in 1933. The Nazis rewarded this "restraint" by allowing the Zionists to go about their work unhindered. All other Jewish and anti fascist organizations were disbanded and their leaders imprisoned.

The Nazis required all Jews to join the Zionist-led "Reich Union" whose goal was emigration. Jews were to be converted to Zionism at any cost. The Zionists were able to publish books and newspapers critical of the Nazis so long as the audience was restricted to Jews.

The cooperation extended to political and economic spheres. Adolph Eichmann set up agricultural training camps in Austria to prepare young Jews for Kibbutz life. He visited Palestine and conferred with Zionist leaders who confessed their true expansionist goals. There was even talk of a strategic alliance between Nazi Germany and Jewish Palestine. His report is in Himmler's Archives.
[For more on Zionist-Nazi cooperation, see online Lenni Brenner "Zionism in the Age of Dictators" Also, Lenni Brenner, 51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With the Nazis (2002)]

The cooperation may have extended to the Jewish Holocaust and explain why most Jews passively accepted their fate. In his book, "The Holocaust Victims Accuse" Rabbi Moshe Shonfeld claims that Zionist- led Jewish Councils ("Judenrats") collaborated with the Nazis and deceived non Zionist Jews. See my "Zionism: Compulsory Suicide for Jews."

Europe's non-Zionist Jews were worth more dead than alive to Zionists and their financial sponsors. The Holocaust provided a political and moral rationale for the establishment of the Jewish state.

WHO WAS HITLER?

In 1919, Hitler was an Intelligence Officer with the German Army assigned to spy on the tiny German Labor Party. He became its leader. Max Warburg, brother of Paul Warburg, founder of the US Federal Reserve, was the chief of German Intelligence. Both were executives of the I.G. Farben conglomerate. There is no record of when Hitler stopped working for these Illuminati figures. (See also Be Afraid: The New World Order's Fascist Pedigree )

Hitler was sponsored by the banker oligarchy, and may have been their pawn.
Certainly the Nazis received millions of dollars from New York and London. See "Hitler Didn't Want World War."

Ernst ("Putzi") Hanfstaengl was close to both the bankers and Hitler and funneled money to the Nazis during their formative years. See also Antony Sutton "Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler" Chapter Eight

But when Hitler began to print his own money, he may have alienated these sponsors. See "Rothschild Conducts Red Symphony"

The bottom line is that both Nazism and Zionism were sponsored by the same banking cartel and had complementary goals. The rise of anti Semitism in Europe served to create the State of Israel, which President Assad of Syria described as a "dagger in the heart of the Arab nations."

Think about it. Hitler could have just confiscated all the Jewish wealth. Instead he used the "Haavara Program" to help establish the State of Israel. According to Polkehn, Hitler personally guaranteed this program in the face of opposition. It lasted until the beginning of the war.

This cartel, which controls the world today, has no compunction about using Jews (or anyone) as a means to an end.

THE BANKSTER AGENDA

All money is created in the form of debt to the privately owned banking cartel.
Imagine if you could create money out of thin air. Imagine you have the credit cards of all the nations in your pocket.

Your first impulse is to lend money to your nominees so they can buy most of the world's real wealth for you.

Your second impulse is to establish a totalitarian system ("world government" "globalization") to prevent any nation from challenging this system or defaulting on their "debt" to you.

To make nations accept "world government," you need to weaken them by having them fight among themselves, run up huge debts for armaments (which you will sell them), kill off the cream of their manhood, and become demoralized and decadent.

You accomplish this through your ownership of politicians and the press and your control of MI-6, CIA, Mossad who carry out terror and assassinations for you. This is the real history of the last 300 years.

"World government" is really about using debt to enslave us; it is an international loan collection agency. Naturally they shroud this with talk about tolerance, human rights, fighting poverty and preventing war.

A quote from a 1924 edition of the American Banker's Association Digest sums up what is currently happening. Keep this in mind when you vote.

"When, through the process of law, the common people lose their homes, they will become more docile and more easily governed through the strong arm of government applied by a central power of wealth under leading financiers. These truths are well known among our principal men who are now engaged in forming imperialism to govern the world. By dividing the voter through the political party system, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting for questions of no importance. "

Now consider the words of an Illuminati defector, Svali. "The conflict in the Middle East is only to the advantage of the Illuminists. They HATE Israel, and hope one day to see it destroyed, and are biding their time. One of the olive branches offered by the UN when it takes over is that they will prevent war in the Middle East, and this will be greeted with joy by many.

At the same time, the Illuminati covertly supply guns and funds to BOTH sides to keep the conflict fuelled. They are very duplicitous people...These people love the game of chess, and see warfare between nations as creating an order out of chaos."

In a personal email, she added: "I have always wondered this, though, why some of the highest ranking financial families in the group (Baron Rothschild of France is one of the 13 European lords, or "kings" that run the group in Europe, and sits on the World Council) are Jewish, yet the group espouses hatred of their own race."

CONCLUSION

Ben Hecht said that reading the daily news to understand current events is like telling the time by looking at the second hand. You have to look at the decade and century hands to see what is really going on in the world.

The Rothschild-Rockefeller banking cartel is behind most political (and cultural) trends and its goal is to destroy the nation state, true democracy, religion, culture, marriage and family, in order to degrade humanity to animal status in advance of totalitarianism.

In the "war on terror," they have created a boogeyman to justify a system of repression to be used when they call in their "loans."

I was once a Zionist who believed Jews needed a homeland because of anti Semitism. I realize now that, like most of history, this view was mostly contrived. Anti Semitism is caused because many Jews serve (consciously or unconsciously) the bankers' harmful agenda. Zionism, Communism and Feminism are a few examples.

Most Jews are now totally identified with Israel, which is a tool of the Rothschilds' demented megalomania. If past is preface, this cannot end well for Jews or anyone.
------------
See Also Clifford Shack: "The Rothschilds, Church and the Final Solution"

When such "anti-Zionists" are left with no reasonable arguments in their quiver and don't want to resort to ad hominems, they pull out the Der Stuermer style cartoons. Then they wonder why they get asked tough questions about being racist.

Notice how speaking the truth is labeled racism.

"By Henry Makow Ph.D."

Funny how you'll quote utter right-wing wingnuts with glee, as long as they agree with you about hating the Jews.

Google "makow rense".

Google "makow frontpagemag".

Then ask yourself why an essay from such a right-wing flake as Makow is doing on a supposedly progressive site.

The answer should be obvious.

@%<

There is a *far* more likely explanation:

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they post blatant anti-Semitism under the name of known anti-Zionists, myself included. Zionists are not the only people posting anti-Semitic propaganda on SF-IMC, or even the only forgers, but they are definitely among them, and by far the most aggressive and prolific. They can be doing it for one reason and one reason only, to make us look like anti-Semites, and thereby discredit us and discredit the anti-Zionist cause.

(snip)

In the NessieLand virtually detached from reality, that is.

good post.

in a war of words, it's the weight of the message not the noise level behind, around and over it.

nessie: "There is a *far* more likely explanation"

The sad part is, no see-e-e-ecret conspiracy is needed to make Indymedia look like a playground for antisemites. Folks like you, nessie, do exactly the work you accuse the seeee-e-e-e-cret conspiracy of doing.

The Mossad must thank their stars nightly that people like you represent their opposition.

@%<

Deeeeep thinker, aintcha, you poor anti-ZIonist.

@%<

You're doing a stellar job discrediting both this IMC and your own rabid anti-Zionist cause.

!לחרות ציון
שבת שלום חברים


(Hey Charlie - if you copy these last two phrases to your smutty posts, you'll be echoing a "Zionist" message.)

Charlie, you've just echoed two sentences. The first reads "for Zion's freedom!". I take that to mean you've crossed over to pro-Zionism. Or is it that you don't mind calling for Israel to be free?

Naziboys are such a hoot!

This is the second own goal you've scored in a row. You've effectively supported Zion's right to exist!

error

Please! Please! try to NOT sound like four-year olds arguing in a sandbox!

If you have a point to make, please make it.
If you want to refute a point, please refute it.
If you want to change the subject, you might
want to consider posting a new lead article.

My high school debate coach would have deducted
major points for this sorry mudslinging festival lacking any
substance whatsoever.

That was an ad hominem, not a rebuttal. How typical. When they can't prove that you're wrong, they call you names.

That was a rebuttal and an ad hominem. How typical. When he can't prove that you're wrong, he complains in rote about ad hominems.

Once again they demonstrate what fundamentally dishonest people they are:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

Once again he demonstrates what fundamentally dishonest a person he is:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1962248

(snip)

Sometimes he takes something that a Zionist has written, subtly alters its meaning by changing a few words, and posts it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

Tia, Schtarker Yid, CM, Gehrig -- Indybay discarded its hidden section earlier today. The hidden comments can no longer be accessed from anywhere in the 'net.

Here's hoping it's a sign they're sinking faster.

They're rising. It's about time.

They're rising only on the nessie Il Duce "Plan for Victory" scale, the same scale whose "winner" is running an IMC that became a ghost town and is now recognized across the IMC network as not only an authoritarian asshole but also a teeth-gnashing antisemite and -- most importantly -- custodian of a ghost town where a vibrant IMC site used to be.

@%<

SF-IMC got rid of the crap. It got rid of the *ssholes. Now it reaches the exclusive audience is specifically designed for. Gehrig resents being excluded. Tough sh*t.

SF-IMC concentrated all of the racist crap in one forum and accentuated it. It gave the *ssholes free reign. Now it reaches the exclusive racist audiences is specifically designed for. Nessie resents being told the truth. Tough sh*t.

il Duce: "SF-IMC got rid of the crap. It got rid of the *ssholes. "

Only if by "assholes" you mean "almost every single person who read the site before you 'purified' it into an organ for preaching to the drastically diminished and continually diminishing choir."

Will the last SF-IMC reader who isn't just one of nessie's nyms please shut off the lights before leaving?

@%<

Actually, I meant people like gehrig.

In case you've ever wondered what he does on Indymedia besides talk about nessie, Zionism and Israel, click here and see for yourself:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K5912506B

You tried that trick on Indymedia Watcher's blog. Didn't work then, not working now.

Remind us ,'nessie', you're still beating your wife?

nessie: "Actually, I meant people like gehrig."

So nearly every reader of SF-IMC before you made it a ghost town was someone like me?

Your rationalization of the failure of SF-IMC gets more amusing all the time.

nessie: "In case you've ever wondered what he does on Indymedia"

And, yes, folks, this ad hominem comes from the same whining whiner who always whines so whiningly his whine about "ad hominems not being rebuttals." And if the screeching screaming hypocrisy of that knocks you for a look, nessie will happily blame it on your being an asshole.

@%<

Here's just a taste of his obsession:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=gehrig+indymedia

Once again they demonstrate what fundamentally dishonest people they are:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

Once again he demonstrates what fundamentally dishonest a person he is:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1962248

(snip)

Sometimes he takes something that a Zionist has written, subtly alters its meaning by changing a few words, and posts it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

Not only are they fundamentally dishonest, but when they can't refute that charges against them they try to drown out the conversation with noise, just like a three year old who screams and stamps his feet when he doesn't get his own way.

That's the kind of people they are. As that's how they act online, you can imagine how they act offline, on the ground in Palestine, where they have tanks and artillery with which to act out their tantrums.

Not only is he fundamentally dishonest, but when he can't refute the charges against him he tries to drown out the conversation with noise, just like a three year old who screams and stamps his feet when he doesn't get his own way.

That's the kind of person he is. As that's how he acts online, you can imagine how he acts offline towards Jews, on the ground in SF, where he has pistols and shotguns and submachine guns with which to act out his tantrums.

nessie: "they try to drown out the conversation with noise"

Now, ask yourself: how many times have you seen nessie spam exactly the same URL he spammed at 7:35 this morning? If that's not "noise," what is? Has it been thousands or merely hundreds? Isn't that just like a three year old who screams and stamps his feet when he doesn't get his own way? NO NO NO, he wails, you're not supposed to listen to HIM, you're supposed to listen to ME, and I'll keep posting that URL until somebody actually does.

@%<

They really, really, really don't want you to discuss what the Zionist entity is doing to its victims. So they yell and whine and lie and forge and employ multiple forms of logical fallacy to distract you. What can we we learn from this about what kind of people they are, and what it is that they are trying so hard to cover up?

He really, really, really doesn't want you to discuss what the anti-Zionist propaganda mill is doing to its target audiences. So he yells and whines and lies and forges and employs multiple forms of logical fallacies to distract you. What can we learn from this about what kind of person he is, and what it is that he is trying so hard to cover up?

And in the meantime, nessie just re-re-re-spammed the same URL _again_ to another thread here.

Does he think you're stupid? Braindead bone stupid? Apparently.

@%<

An ad hominem is not a rebuttal. Everything in that URL is true. That's why the Zionist propaganda mill responds with a logical fallacy instead of attempting to rebut it. This tells us pretty much everything we need to know about what liars they are.

An ad hominem is not a rebuttal. Everything in that URL is untrue. That's why the anti-Zionist propaganda mill responds with a host of logical fallacies instead of rebutting it. This tells us pretty much everything we need to know about what liars they are.

nessie: "Everything in that URL is true. "

Just like your version of the Mossad motto was "true" -- until you were actually forced to look at it and discover that you'd been parroting lies, and you went suddenly and mysteriously silent on the subject.

But, hey, it's not like you had any more credibility to lose on the subject anyway.

@%<

Note that the Zionist propaganda mill failed to demonstrate that *anything* in the URL was not true.

As for for the motto, I believe Ostrovsky. It's a great book. Read it. It will open your eyes.

nessie: "As for for the motto, I believe Ostrovsky."

That's okay, you believe a lot of other things that aren't true, so what's one more? Of course, I literally disproved it chapter and verse -- Proverbs 24:6, for anybody who wants to see nessie biting the dust -- but what are facts and proof, after all, when compared to nessie's authoritarian will to believe whatever he wants to believe?

Mrs. Teasdale (Margaret Dumont): "I saw you leave with my own eyes."

Chicolini (Chico Marx): "Yeah, well, who you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"

@%<

Not only has he *still* failed to prove anything in that URL is untrue, but now expects you to take his word over that of an actual Mossad defector, who spilled the beans about this glorified organized crime syndicate.

OK, tell you what. Read gehrig. Then read Ostrovsky. Then decide for yourself. I did. You can, too.

Not only has Lee Doyle *still* failed to prove anything in that URL is true, but now expects you to take his an some Mossad defector's word over that of the actual truth of the matter.

OK, tell you what. Read Ostrovsky. Then read gehrig. Then decide for yourself. I did. You can, too. Then ignore the "la la la la I CAN'T HEAR YOU" little obsessive man.

Once again they demonstrate what fundamentally dishonest people they are:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

Once again he demonstrates what fundamentally dishonest a person he is:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1962248

(snip)

Sometimes he takes something that a Zionist has written, subtly alters its meaning by changing a few words, and posts it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

A while back, on Indybay, one of the regular posters, Tia, went through each supposed "quote" from Israeli leaders and guess what? Each one was made up!

Now thats bad enough, but once the "anti-zionist" false quote poster was caught, does any one think that he'd stop posting false quotes? Nope, and thats what we've learned to expect from "anti-zionists." Its all somewhere in these archives.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?V20F52FDB

nessie: "but now expects you to take his word over that of an actual Mossad defector"

That's the sound of true blue denial, folks.

Help me out here, nessie. Which lie are you trying to tell? Are you trying to tell the lie that the Mossad shield didn't quote, letter for letter, Proverbs 24:6, or are you trying to tell the lie that Proverbs 24:6 includes the word "deception"?

Is it lie A or lie B you're trying to tell, nessie?

@%<

NOT VERY SPIORITUAL MR. YIDDY-POOOH????
tIA ALSO CALLED YOU ON YOUR SHIT--BUT I GUESS SHE'S ONLY RELEVANT WHEN YOU ARE LYING.

SchtarkerYid
by Good Choice! Monday, May. 01, 2006 at 2:12 PM

right there by Superior Granite and the St.Paul mission? Only two ways in or out? San Pablo or MLK? Lots of people, lots of cover? Good choice! We'll see you there.
Hows this?
by Tia Monday, May. 01, 2006 at 3:40 PM

Come on Yid- now you are getting weird, even by my very loose standards.
The only way to do something that has any intergrity is to do it open and notoriously.
The sneaky thing just doesn't fly. Most times. The threatening thing just doesn't fly. Ever.
Thursday, Nov. 17, 2005 at 10:05 AM

Hey, I was there last night where were you? I was the guy in the plaid shirt and black knit watch cap standing across the street by Quiznos. Watching. Waiting.

Not a bit. Thats nonsense. It would be foolish not to keep track of dangerous crazy people. You have proven yourself to be both. Have you figured out which one of "yours" I am? I intend to be at your next event too. Its how I know some of the things that I do.

Here's what *really* happened:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/05/157212_comment.php#157264

Ah, but you "forgot" to answer the question, nessie.

Which lie are you trying to tell? Are you trying to tell the lie that the Mossad shield didn't quote, letter for letter, Proverbs 24:6, or are you trying to tell the lie that Proverbs 24:6 includes the word "deception"?

Is it lie A or lie B you're trying to tell, nessie?

Or are you going to pretend that your credibility doesn't lie bleeding on the ground from its self-inflicted wounds?

@%<

Zionists Made A Deal With The Devil
Accepting The 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'

By Henry Makow, Ph.D

Under the 1935 Nuremberg Laws, only two flags were permitted in Nazi Germany. One was the swastika. The other was the blue and white banner of Zionism.

According to Lenni Brenner's online book Zionism in the Age of Dictators (Ch.7), the Zionist party was the only other political party in Nazi Germany that enjoyed a measure of freedom, and could publish a newspaper. The reason: Zionists and Nazis had a common interest, making German Jews go to Palestine.
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/ch07.htm

History is not always what you'd expect.

There are more shocking examples in Brenner's book (Chapters 24 & 25).

For instance, in November 1942, Rabbi Michael Dov-Ber Weismandel, a Jewish activist in Slovakia approached Adoph Eichmann's representative, Dieter Wisliceny: "How much money would be needed for all the European Jews to be saved?" Wisliceny went to Berlin and returned with an answer. For a mere $2 million they could have all the Jews in Western Europe and the Balkans. Weismandel sent a courier to the World Zionist Organization in Switzerland. His request was refused. The official, Nathan Schwalb sent enough money to save only Weismandel and his cadre. He wrote:

"About the cries coming from your country, we should know that all the Allied nations are spilling much of their blood, and if we do not sacrifice any blood, by what right shall we merit coming before the bargaining table when they divide nations and lands at the war's end? ....for only with blood shall we get the land." (p.237)

Brenner writes that Zionism had come full turn. "Instead of Zionism being the hope of the Jews, their blood was to be the political salvation of Zionism" (p.238).

In Chapter 25, Brenner relates how Zionist leader Rezso Kasztner made a deal with Adolph Eichmann to save a few thousand hand -picked Zionists and wealthy Jews in return for deceiving and leading more than 750,000 Hungarian Jews to their doom. In 1954, when Kasztner was accused of collaborating, the Israeli government sprang to his defence.

Brenner documents how the Zionist and World Jewish leadership prevaricated and obstructed all efforts to save the Jews of Europe who apparently were worth more to them dead than alive.

I am Jewish and my family suffered from Nazi persecution. When I first heard this information, I immediately rejected it. It boggles the mind. However, as I learned more about the Illuminati's ancient plan for world domination with its satanic overtones and Masonic plan for rebuilding Solomon's Temple, I became more receptive.

I came to the conclusion that Jews must be sceptical of Zionist leaders who have used the holocaust to gain undeserved moral authority, and to bludgeon Jews and others into hysterical, unthinking conformity.

It is possible that Israel was set up for purposes that have nothing to do with the Jewish people, and that Israelis and Jews in general are being duped.

This is by way of introduction to a current controversy, which cuts to the heart of Jewish-Arab mistrust. It is over a lavishly produced 14-part television series based on the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion." It will be aired nightly during the peak viewing period of the Muslim Ramadan by the state-run Egyptian station, and a private satellite channel.

For Jews, the series entitled "A Rider Without a Horse" is proof of the Arabs' inveterate anti Semitism. For Jews, the "Protocols" is an anti Semitic booklet written in 1905 by Czar Nicholas II's secret police which describes an imaginary Jewish plot to take over the world.

For Arabs, the "Protocols" are confirmation of a Jewish desire to spread materialist values, destroy Islam and colonize the Middle East.

According to Hebrew University professor Meir Litvak, "Many Arab and Muslim writers see globalization as a threat to Arab culture and identity and fear that it will increase Western control of their economies and political systems." Associating globalization with "Jewish intrigues" makes it easier for the Arabs to explain why they lag behind in economics, technology and science, says Litvak. (Haaretz, Oct. 29,2002 http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=224976 )

Calls from the US government to cancel the program on the grounds that it stokes hatred and bigotry were rebuffed by Cairo. So too were appeals to Arab leaders to condemn the anti-Semitism rife in the Egyptian media. A protest demonstration by Jewish organizations took place outside the Egyptian embassy in Washington Monday, November 4.

An Arab League spokesman rejected Israeli charges that the series is a violation of Cairo's commitment under the peace accord to shun anti-Israel incitement. Egyptian Information Minister Safwat el-Sherif declared that he could not see what the fuss was about. He denied that ìRiderî had any anti-Semitic content at all. ìOur media policy,î he says, ìis to respect all monotheistic religions.î

I don't know about the miniseries but I invite you to read "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" online) and decide about its authenticity and anti Semitism. http://www.abbc.com/protocols/indexen.htm#protocol_7

In my opinion, the Protocols are a master plan for what already has largely taken place.

Nesta Webster (World Revolution, pp.288-298) has shown that the Protocols are typical of many other Illuminati writings. It's true that the "Protocols" identify the source as largely Jewish. This may be a false scent, an attempt to scapegoat the whole Jewish people in order to protect a few bankers, their lackeys and allies. Historically the Illuminati is an occult secret society with strong aristocratic British, Aryan German, as well as Jewish financial and revolutionary elements.

If Jews became familiar with the history of the New World Order,
http://wwwviewfromthewall.com/fwcover.htm#contents we would recognize that Muslims are correct that "globalization" is a mask for a bizarre plot to enshrine the rule of the superrich under the aegis of Lucifer.

Islam is one of the last bastions of genuine God worship, the last major obstacle to pagan World Religion. The attack on Iraq is another step in the plan to destroy Islam, monopolize world resources and enslave humanity.

The cry of "anti Semitism" is being used to divert the world from this diabolical plot. By accepting the role of some apostate Jews, and their dupes, God-fearing Jews could unite with Muslims (and Christians) to bring the "blood sacrifice" to an end.

--------------------------
Henry Makow, Ph.D. is the inventor of the board game Scruples and the author of "A Long Way to go for a Date." (http://alongwaytogoforadate.com) His articles on feminism and the New World Order are archived on his web site www.savethemales.ca He welcomes comments at henrym@mts.net

Now their reduced to quoting a guy from the Rense report! Was David Duke busy?

SY: "Now their reduced to quoting a guy from the Rense report! "

Right. They're only "progressives" when it comes to everyone else. When it comes to the Jews, they're perfectly happy to quote whackjobs like Makow.

@%<

LIke How is it that volunteering a 1 IMC, gives you (gehrig's quote) a "right" to troll ALL IMC's that don't meet zionist standards....
and then there's the Yidiot
How do you reconcile your slef proclaimed "spiritual" nature w/ threatening posters and telling them that you are "watching....waiting"
You foolsih spastic freaks have reveled your true lunacy.

Ah, you poor dumb thing, trying so damned hard to look like you have a point to make, please post a URL in which I claimed I had a right to troll.

@%<

It was probably posted by a Zionist in an attempt to smear Brenner by association. They have to resort to dirty tricks when they deal with Brenner because nothing he says is factually incorrect. Besides, false flag ops are their specialty.

nessie: "It was probably posted by a Zionist"

Remember who we're dealing with -- nessie the Jew-hater, who blames every bit of Indymedia antisemitica he can't ignore on Thuh Zionists.

Remember when he was whining about how Thuh Zionists had forced Kurt Nimmo into silence? Pounded the table right good on that one, didn't he. Those wicked, wicked Zionists, slandering the good name of the brave anti-Zionist Kurt Nimmo. Then, I showed nessie the post in which Kurt Nimmo said there were no gas chambers in Auschwitz. Nessie's response? Utter, stark, completely flawless silence on Nimmo from that moment on, as if nessie hadn't been one of his loudest defenders.

@%<

You poor little troll, backed into a corner. What you said was that (because of your volunteer work) you have a right to "bitch"
But you don't bitch on the IMC that you volunteered with. You troll on IMC's NATIONWIDE!!!! Now, my question, little whipper snapper troll, was how do you apply the logic that b/c you volunteered at one site, that that gives you a right to "bitch"--about all IMC's--on their sites. (Most people call your incessant posts trolling).
But for the sake of argument, you may call it "bitching".
Now, little troll, please tell us how you generalize that "right"
Oh, here's a sample of your trollery:
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s&hl=en&q=gehrig+indymedia&btnG=Google+Search

Where is it?

Backed into a corner? Hardly. You're the one who's just exposed as never having lifted a finger to help the IMC in any capacity, and now -- because you're outed as a troll, not that it took much outing -- you're doing what spineless trolls do when they're down for the count: the GO INTO HIGH CAPITAL-LETTERED OUTRAGE AGAINST THEIR ATTACKER AARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!

The difference between you and nessie is that nessie is funny because he's pompous and ineffectual, while you're only funny because you're ineffectual.

I don't claim to have infinite bitching rights. Just a hell of a lot more than you do, you poor spineless sponge.

@%<

And he still didn't cite an URL to back up his claim.

Terror leaders threaten Americans, hope boy, 16, 'goes directly to hell'

TEL AVIV – The death yesterday of Daniel Wultz, a Florida teenager critically injured last month in a suicide bombing at an Israeli restaurant, is a "gift from Allah" and revenge against American Jewish support for Israel, Abu Nasser, a leader of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, one of the groups responsible for the deadly blast, told WorldNetDaily.

Abu Amin, a leader of the Islamic Jihad, which also took responsibility for the April 17 bombing in which Wultz was injured, told WND last night his terror group may target Americans in the near future.


Wultz, 16, was one of over 60 people injured in the attack in which a Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up in a crowded section of Tel Aviv as Israelis celebrated the fifth day of the Passover holiday. The blast ripped through a falafel restaurant just outside the city's old central bus station, killing nine. The same restaurant was hit by a suicide attack in January, wounding 20. A tenth Israeli victim passed away this weekend. Wultz's demise yesterday brought to 11 the total number of deaths from the suicide blast so far.

Wultz was a resident of Weston, Fla. He was on Passover vacation in Israel along with his family. The teenager was seated with his father, Yekutiel, at an outside table of the targeted restaurant when the bomb was detonated.

Described as an avid basketball player, Wultz lost his spleen, a leg and a kidney in the attack. Doctors at Tel Aviv's Ichilov Hospital had reportedly been fighting to save his other leg, which was suffering from severely reduced blood flow. Wultz's father suffered a fractured leg in the attack.

Wultz had been lying in a coma in the intensive care unit since the bombing, though he briefly was aroused last month.

His story had generated extensive international media coverage and had prompted a flurry of e-mails across the Internet asking people worldwide to pray for the young terror victim.

Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Brigades, the declared military wing of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah Party, claimed responsibility for the bombing.

In a WND exclusive interview yesterday, Abu Nasser, a senior leader of the Al Aqsa Brigades in the West Bank, rejoiced in Wultz's death. Abu Nasser is part of the Brigades leadership in the Balata refugee camp suspected of plotting the attack.

"This is a gift from Allah. We wish this young dog will go directly with no transit to hell," Abu Nasser said.

"[Wultz] was part of the American support machine that helps our enemy. All these young American Jews come here to support the occupation, they build and live in the settlements ... . I imagine him as one of these Nazis who live here [in the settlements.] There is no difference between him and them."

Regarding U.S. policy in the Middle East, Abu Nasser commented, "I say to the Americans if you will not change than we wish you more Daniel Wultzes and more pain and sorrow because it seems that this is the only thing you deserve."

Abu Nasser went on to pledge more suicide bombings inside Israel.

"We will hit whenever we will think it is suitable and do not expect that I give details but we can hit everywhere," he said.

Also speaking to WND, Islamic Jihad senior leader in the northern West Bank Abu Amin called Wultz's death a "message from Allah to the unbelievers that he will always be at the side of those who believe and fight for him."

Comparing Wultz to the suicide bomber who killed the Florida teenager, Abu Amin said, "Our hero believed in Allah and died while fighting for Allah but your pig was killed in a restaurant in an area full of prostitution."

He said Wultz's death should demonstrate to Americans "that even if you live in the U.S. the hand of Allah and the sword of the Jihad fighters will reach you and you will find the same end [as Wultz]."

Asked if his group would specifically target Americans in Israel, Abu Amin replied, "Concerning the Americans we do not target them but I will not be surprise if the resistance organizations would reconsider this matter. America is a full partner of the enemy in the siege against our people.

"If we know there are Americans in a place we plan to attack, we will not cancel the operation. On the contrary this would be a sign from Allah that this is a more blessed operation. Killing Americans and Jews in one operation – it can be great."

hunting down all who don't tow the zionist line at IMC's across the country
Here's a review:
Oh, here's a sample of your trollery:
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s&hl=en&q=gehrig+indymedia&btnG=Google+Search

... And eventually get butchered by Muslim fundamentalists where you're situated.

Daniel Wultz
Don't go to Israel. Stay in America.


Tell that to the 3,000 accountants, waiters, janitors, administrative assistants, etc who worked in the WTC.

Neta Rotem, a 23-year-old student, stood near the cashier's windows at the Jerusalem Theater. Dozens hurried by her to the ceremony awarding poet Nurit Zarhi the Yehuda Amihai lifetime achievement prize. Rotem handed them brochures, of which one side said, "remember the cacti you used to see on hikes? They were the hedge around Palestinian villages," while the other side offered a review of the Arab history of the Talbieh neighborhood, where the theater is located.

"We use fliers, movies, pictures and testimony to bring the neighborhood's Arab history to life," she explained. "Today Talbieh is one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the city. Five minutes from here is the prime minister's residence; the Belgian ambassador lives nearby and the German Goethe Institute is near here. But the neighborhood has another history: In mid-February 1948, the Haganah moved its people in here and called on the residents, mostly Palestinians, to leave. Some fled to East Jerusalem, Lebanon or Egypt and their homes were given to Jews. Unfortunately, few Israelis are willing to recognize these simple facts, and some are not even aware that entire villages were destroyed."

Rotem's activities are part of the "Nakba 60" project, a coalition of five Jewish and Palestinian organizations established a year and half ago. "The project aims to raise awareness of the Nakba ["catastrophe," the Palestinian term for Israel's Independence Day] in advance of the 60th anniversary of the events in May 2008," explained Lotan Raz, a coalition activist.

"One initiative was holding four events in different Jerusalem locales where abandoned villages were located: in the new central bus station [near Lifta], in Emek Refaim [formerly Bakaa], at the theater and in Ein Kerem," Raz said. "All the events are taking place in the week between Israeli Independence Day and Nakba Day, which is marked today [Monday}. In addition to the street events, a tour of abandoned homes in Lifta was held earlier this week."

At the theater last Wednesday, activists gathered around a slide projector showing images of Talbieh's Arab houses and the ruins of other Arab villages, including Lifta and Dir Yassin (now the Givat Shaul neighborhood). Against this backdrop, Raz read the testimony of Palestinians who left in 1948, including Edward Said, author of the book "Orientalism," who revisited his childhood home in 1998.

Reactions ran the gamut from anger to apathy. "Emigrate if you don't like it," one woman shouted as she disappeared into the theater. Others took the brochures.

"Raising consciousness takes a very long time," coalition member Tamar Avraham said. "We are working against a very strong narrative that presents Independence Day as having only positive aspects. I deal with Jewish memory in my work at Yad Vashem. So this was natural for me. Some people are quick to say 'the Nakba and the Holocaust are not the same,' even though I have never claimed they are similar. There is fear in the Israeli street that dealing with the Nakba will erase memory of the Holocaust, and we are trying to change that fear."

The coalition is funded by EPER, the Federation of Swiss Protestant Churches, which promotes coexistence in 45 strife-torn countries such as Sudan and Sri Lanka.

The police are less interested. After an hour, a police car pulled up to the theater with lights flashing. Raz quickly turned off the microphone and the slide projector. The police asked the crowd to disperse. Efforts to explain that this was a "cultural event" failed, and the activists hurried off. ~

www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/716089.html

To call some Arabs "the" Arabs is every bit as racist as calling some Jews "the" Jews.

To *some* Jews, the ability to steal Arab land is worth more than any Arab life.

Thats the most racist post yet.!

Unsubstantiated allegation.

Passover and the Ignored Liberation
By Andrew G. Bostom

During Passover Jews celebrate their liberation from Egyptian servitude, an estimated 3300 years ago. And yet each Passover, I am struck by how this widely celebrated ancient narrative contrasts starkly with an equally important, but almost unrecognized historical phenomenon completed in full only by the creation of the State of Israel just 58 years ago—the liberation of the Jews from the oppressive system of jihad-imposed dhimmitude in their very homeland. These uniquely Islamic systems—jihad and its corollary institution, dhimmitude—have shaped events in historical Palestine—modern Israel, Judea, Samaria, Gaza, and Jordan—from 634, through the present, setting in place archetypal patterns still quite evident today.

There is only one historically relevant meaning of jihad regardless of contemporary apologetics. The noted 19th century Arabic lexicographer E.W. Lane, who studied the etymology of the term, observed, “Jihad came to be used by the Muslims to signify wag[ing] war, against unbelievers”. Jihad was pursued century after century because jihad embodied an ideology and a jurisdiction. Both were formally conceived by Muslim jurisconsults and theologians from the 8th to 9th centuries onward, based on their interpretation of Koranic verses and long chapters in the Traditions i.e., the “hadith”, or acts and sayings of the Muslim prophet Muhammad, especially those recorded by al-Bukhari [d. 869] and Muslim [d. 874]

Ibn Khaldun (d. 1406), jurist, renowned philosopher, historian, and sociologist, summarized these consensus opinions from five centuries of prior Muslim jurisprudence with regard to the uniquely Islamic institution of jihad:

In the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the [Muslim] mission and [the obligation to] convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force... The other religious groups did not have a universal mission, and the holy war was not a religious duty for them, save only for purposes of defense... Islam is under obligation to gain power over other nations.

To understand the legacy of jihad in historical Palestine, one must return to Arabia—the birthplace of Islam, and its founder, the Muslim prophet Muhammad. September 622 C.E. marks a defining event in Islam- the hijra. Muhammad and a coterie of followers (the Muhajirun), persecuted by fellow Banu Quraysh tribesmen who rejected Muhammad's authenticity as a divine messenger, fled from Mecca to Yathrib, later known as Al-Medina (Medina). The Muslim sources described Yathrib as having been a Jewish city founded by a Palestinian diaspora population which had survived the revolt against the Romans. Distinct from the nomadic Arab tribes, the Jews of the north Arabian peninsula were highly productive oasis farmers. These Jews were eventually joined by itinerant Arab tribes from southern Arabia who settled adjacent to them and transitioned to a sedentary existence.

Following Muhammad's arrival, he re-ordered Medinan society, eventually imposing his authority on each tribe. The Jewish tribes were isolated, some were then expelled, and the remainder attacked and exterminated. Muhammad distributed among his followers as "booty" the vanquished Jews property—plantations, fields, and houses—and also used this “booty” to establish a well-equipped jihadist cavalry corps. Muhammad's subsequent interactions with the Christians of northern Arabia followed a similar pattern, noted by the great scholar of early Islam, Richard Bell. The “relationship with the Christians ended as that with the Jews (ended)- in war”, because Islam as presented by Muhammad was a divine truth, and unless Christians accepted this formulation, which included Muhammad's authority, “conflict was inevitable, and there could have been no real peace while he [Muhammad] lived.”

Within two years of Muhammad's death, Abu Bakr, the first Caliph, launched the Great Jihad. The ensuing three decades witnessed Islamdom's most spectacular expansion, as Muslim armies subdued the entire Arabian peninsula, and conquered territories which had been in Greco-Roman possession since the reign of Alexander the Great; within a century of Muhammad’s death the jihad wars of his successors had expanded the Muslim empire from what is now Portugal, to modern Pakistan.

Moshe Gil, in his monumental analysis A History of Palestine, 634-1099, emphasizes the singular centrality that Palestine occupied in the mind of its pre-Islamic Jewish inhabitants, who referred to the land as “al-Sham”. Indeed, as Gil observes, the sizable Jewish population in Palestine (who formed a majority of its inhabitants, when grouped with the Samaritans) at the dawn of the Arab Muslim conquest were, “the direct descendants of the generations of Jews who had lived there since the days of Joshua bin Nun, in other words for some 2000 years...” Jews and Christians speaking Aramaic inhabited the cities and the cultivated inner regions, devoid of any unique ties to the Bedouin of the desert hinterlands, who were regarded as bellicose and threatening, in the writings of both the Church Fathers, and in Talmudic sources.

The following is a summary of the devastating consequences of the Arab Muslim conquest of Palestine during the fourth decade of the 7th century, directed by the first two Caliphs, Abu Bakr and Umar b. al-Khattab.

The entire Gaza region up to Cesarea was sacked and devastated in the campaign of 634, which included the slaughter of four thousand Jewish, Christian, and Samaritan peasants. Villages in the Negev were also pillaged, and towns such as Jerusalem, Gaza, Jaffa, Cesarea, Nablus, and Beth Shean were isolated. In his sermon on the Day of the Epiphany 636, Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem, bewailed the destruction of the churches and monasteries, the sacked towns and villages, and the fields laid waste by the invaders. Thousands of people perished in 639, victims of the famine and plague wrought by this wanton destruction. The Muslim historian Baladhuri (d. 892 C.E.), maintained that 30,000 Samaritans and 20,000 Jews lived in Caesarea alone just prior to the Arab Muslim conquest; afterward, all evidence of them disappears. Archaeological data confirms the lasting devastation wrought by these initial jihad conquests, particularly the widespread destruction of synagogues and churches from the Byzantine era, whose remnants are still being unearthed. The total number of towns was reduced from fifty-eight to seventeen in the red sand hills and swamps of the western coastal plain (i.e., the Sharon). Massive soil erosion from the Judaean mountains western slopes also occurred due to agricultural uprooting during this period. Finally, the papyri of Nessana were completely discontinued after the year 700, reflecting how the Negev also experienced the destruction of its agriculture, and the desertion of its villages.

And what was the nature of the system of governance imposed upon the conquered indigenous Jews, Samaritans, and Christians of Palestine? In his seminal The Laws of Islamic Governance al-Mawardi (d. 1058), a renowned jurist of Baghdad, examined the regulations pertaining to the lands and infidel (i.e., non-Muslim) populations subjugated by jihad. This is the origin of the system of dhimmitude. The native infidel “dhimmi” (which derives from both the word for “pact”, and also “guilt”—guilty of religious errors) population had to recognize Islamic ownership of their land, submit to Islamic law, and accept payment of the Koranic poll tax (jizya), based on Koran 9:29. He notes that "The enemy makes a payment in return for peace and reconciliation. " Al- Mawardi then distinguishes two cases: (I) Payment is made immediately and is treated like booty, "it does, not however, prevent a jihad being carried out against them in the future. ". (II). Payment is made yearly and will "constitute an ongoing tribute by which their security is established". Reconciliation and security last as long as the pavment is made. If the pavment ceases, then the jihad resumes. A treaty of reconciliation may be renewable, but must not exceed 10 years.

The “contract of the jizya”, or “dhimma” encompassed other obligatory and recommended obligations for the conquered non-Muslim "dhimmi" peoples. Collectively, these "obligations" formed the discriminatory system of dhimmitude imposed upon non-Muslims-Jews, Christians, [as well as Zoroastrians, Hindus, and Buddhists]-subjugated by jihad. Some of the more salient features of dhimmitude include: the prohibition of arms for the vanquished non-Muslims (dhimmis), and of church bells; restrictions concerning the building and restoration of churches, synagogues, and temples; inequality between Muslims and non-Muslims with regard to taxes and penal law; the refusal of dhimmi testimony by Muslim courts; a requirement that Jews, Christians, and other non-Muslims, including Zoroastrians and Hindus, wear special clothes; and the overall humiliation and abasement of non-Muslims. It is important to note that these regulations and attitudes were institutionalized as permanent features of the sacred Islamic law, or Shari' a. The writings of the much lionized Sufi theologian and jurist al-Ghazali (d. 1111) highlight how the institution of dhimmitude was simply a normative, and prominent feature of the Shari'a:

...the dhimmi is obliged not to mention Allah or His Apostle.. .Jews, Christians, and Majians must pay the jizya [poll tax on non-Muslims]...on offering up the jizya, the dhimmi must hang his head while the official takes hold of his beard and hits [the dhimmi] on the protruberant bone beneath his ear [i.e., the mandible]... They are not permitted to ostentatiously display their wine or church bells...their houses may not be higher than the Muslim's, no matter how low that is. The dhimmi may not ride an elegant horse or mule; he may ride a donkey only if the saddler-work] is of wood. He may not walk on the good part of the road. They [the dhimmis] have to wear [an identifying] patch [on their clothing], even women, and even in the [public] baths...[dhimmis] must hold their tongue.

The practical consequences of such a discriminatory system were summarized in A.S. Tritton’s 1930 The Caliphs and their Non-Muslim Subjects, a pioneering treatise on the status of the dhimmis:

…[C]aliphs destroyed churches to obtain materials for their buildings, and the mob was always ready to pillage churches and monasteries…dhimmis…always lived on sufferance, exposed to the caprices of the ruler and the passions of the mob…in later times..[t]hey were much more liable to suffer from the violence of the crowd, and the popular fanaticism was accompanied by an increasing strictness among the educated. The spiritual isolation of Islam was accomplished. The world was divided into two classes, Muslims and others, and only Islam counted…Indeed the general feeling was that the leavings of the Muslims were good enough for the dhimmis.

Dhimmitude in Palestine During the Initial Period of Muslim Rule 634-1099

The stark, unromantic reality of Muslim ruled Palestine during these 465-years is perhaps best illustrated by examining a putative "Golden Age" during the Abbasid-Baghdadian Caliphate, between 750 and 878. Under early Abbasid rule (approximately 750-755 C.E., perhaps during the reign of al-Saffah), Greek sources report orders demanding the removal of crosses over Churches, bans on Church services and teaching of the scriptures, the eviction of monks from their monasteries, and excessive taxation. Gil notes that in 772 C.E., when Caliph al-Mansur visited Jerusalem,

..he ordered a special mark should be stamped on the hands of the Christians and the Jews. Many Christians fled to Byzantium.

Bat Ye' or elucidates the fiscal oppression inherent in eighth century Palestine which devastated the dhimmi Jewish and Christian peasantry:

Over-taxed and tortured by the tax collectors, the villagers fled into hiding or emigrated into towns.

She quotes from a detailed chronicle of an eighth century monk, completed in 774:

The men scattered, they became wanderers everywhere; the fields were laid waste, the countryside pillaged; the people went from one land to another.

The Greek chronicler Theophanes provides a contemporary description of the chaotic events which transpired after the death of the caliph Harun al-Rashid in 809. He describes Palestine as the scene of violence, rape, and murder, from which Christian monks fled to Cyprus and Constantinople.

Perhaps the clearest outward manifestations of the inferiority and humiliation of the dhimmis were the prohibitions regarding their dress codes, and the demands that distinguishing signs be placed on the entrances of dhimmi houses. During the Abbasid caliphates of Harun al-Rashid (786-809) and al-Mutawwakil (847-861), Jews and Christians were required to wear yellow (as patches attached to their garments, or hats). Later, to differentiate further between Christians and Jews, the Christians were required to wear blue. In 850, consistent with Qur'anic verses associating them with Satan and Hell, al-Mutawwakil decreed that Jews and Christians attach wooden images of devils to the doors of their homes to distinguish them from the homes of Muslims.

Muslim Turcoman rule of Palestine for the nearly three decades just prior to the Crusades (1071- 1099 C.E.) was characterized by such unrelenting warfare and devastation, that an imminent "End of Days" atmosphere was engendered. A contemporary poem by Solomon ha-Kohen b. Joseph, believed to be a descendant of the Geonim, an illustrious family of Palestinian Jews of priestly descent, speaks of destruction and ruin, the burning of harvests, the razing of plantations, the desecration of cemeteries, and acts of violence, slaughter, and plunder.

The brutal nature of the Crusader's conquest of Palestine, particularly of the major cities, beginning in 1098/99 C.E., has been copiously documented. However, the devastation wrought by both Crusader conquest and rule (through the last decades of the 13th century) cannot reasonably be claimed to have approached, let alone somehow "exceeded", what transpired during the first four and one-half centuries of Muslim jihad conquests, endless internecine struggles for Muslim dominance, and imposition of dhimmitude.

Moreover, we cannot ignore the testimony of Isaac b. Samuel of Acre (1270-1350 C.E.), one of the most outstanding Kabbalists of his time. Conversant with Islamic theology and often using Arabic in his exegesis, Isaac nevertheless believed that it was preferable to live under the yoke of Christendom, rather than that of Islamdom. Acre was taken from the Crusaders by the Mamelukes in 1291 by a very brutal jihad conquest. Accordingly, despite the precept to dwell in the Holy Land, Isaac b. Samuel fled to Italy and thence to Christian Spain, where he wrote:

...they [the Muslims] strike upon the head the children of Israel who dwell in their lands and they thus extort money from them by force. For they say in their tongue, ...'it is lawful to take money of the Jews.' For, in the eyes of the Muslims, the children of Israel are as open to abuse as an unprotected field. Even in their law and statutes they rule that the testimony of a Muslim is always to be believed against that of a Jew. For this reason our rabbis of blessed memory have said, 'Rather beneath the yoke of Edom [Christendom] than that of Ishmael.

And about 120 years earlier (in 1172), Maimonides had written these words having escaped in 1148 the purely mythical “tolerance” of Muslim Spain, specifically Cordoba, during the jihad depredations of the Almohads:

The nation of Ishmael…persecute us severely and devise ways to harm us and to debase us…None has matched it in debasing and humiliating us. None has been able to reduce us as they have. We have done as our sages of blessed memory instructed us, bearing the lies and absurdities of Ishmael. We listen, but remain silent…In spite of all this, we are not spared from the ferocity of their wickedness, and their outbursts at any time. On the contrary, the more we suffer and choose to conciliate them, the more they choose to act belligerently toward us.

Sadly, this chronic, grinding oppression interspersed with paroxysms of violent fanaticism persisted throughout the approximately 630 year period, combined (i.e., 1291-1918), of Mamluk, and then Ottoman Muslim rule of historical Palestine, until the British Mandate after World War I.

For example, the Polish Jew, Gedaliah of Siemiatyce (d. 1716), who, braving numerous perils, came to Jerusalem in 1700, recorded these appalling conditions, in his book, Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem, motivating him to return to Europe in order to raise funds for the Jews of Jerusalem:

No Jew or Christian is allowed to ride a horse, but a donkey is permitted, for [in the eyes of Muslims] Christians and Jews are inferior beings... The Muslims do not allow any member of another faith-unless he converts to their religion-entry to the Temple [Mount] area, for they claim that no other religion is sufficiently pure to enter this holy spot.

Moreover, the Muslim law requires that each religious denomination wear its specific garment so that each people may be distinguished from another. This distinction also applies to footwear. Indeed, the Jews wear shoes of a dark blue color, whereas Christians wear red shoes. No one can use green, for this color is worn solely by Muslims. The latter are very hostile toward Jews and inflict upon them vexations in the streets of the city...the common folk persecute the Jews, for we are forbidden to defend ourselves against the Turks or the Arabs. If an Arab strikes a Jew, he [the Jew] must appease him but dare not rebuke him, for fear that he may be struck even harder, which they [the Arabs] do without the slightest scruple.

Even the Christians are subjected to these vexations. If a Jew offends a Muslim, the latter strikes him a brutal blow with his shoe in order to demean him, without anyone's being able to prevent him from doing it. The Christians fall victim to the same treatment and they suffer as much as the Jews, except that the former are very rich by reason of the subsidies that they receive from abroad, and they use this money to bribe the Arabs. As for the Jews, they do not possess much money with which to oil the palms of the Muslims, and consequently they are subject to much greater suffering.

These prevailing conditions for Jews did not improve in a consistent or substantive manner even after the mid 19th century treaties imposed by the European powers on the weakened Ottoman Empire included provisions for the Tanzimat reforms. First introduced in 1839, these reforms were designed to end the discriminatory laws of dhimmitude for both Jews and Christians, living under the Ottoman Shari’a. European consuls endeavored to maintain compliance with at least two cardinal principles central to any meaningful implementation of the reforms: respect for the life and property of non-Muslims; and the right for Christians and Jews to provide evidence in Islamic courts when a Muslim was a party. Unfortunately, these efforts to replace the concept of Muslim superiority over “infidels”, with the principle of equal rights, failed. Almost two decades later, an eyewitness account from Jerusalem, written by the British Jerusalem Consul James Finn, (reported November 8-11, 1858) highlights this tragic failure:

…my Hebrew Dragoman, having a case for judgment in the Makhkameh before the new Kadi...was commanded to stand up humbly and take off his shoes...during the Process, although the thief had previously confessed to the robbery in the presence of Jews, the Kadi would not proceed without the testimony of two Moslems-when the Jewish witnesses were offered, he refused to accept their testimony-and the offensive term adopted toward Jews...(more offensive than Giaour for Christians) was used by the Kadi's servants... In continuing to report concerning the apprehensions of Christians from revival of fanaticism on the part of the Mahometans, I have... to state that daily accounts are given to me of insults in the streets offered to Christians and Jews, accompanied by acts of violence... the sufferers are afraid

Tudor Parfitt's 1987 analysis of the entire Tanzimat period concluded that these problems persisted for Jews through the close of the 19th century,

...the courts were biased against the Jews and even when a case was heard in a properly assembled court where dhimmi testimony was admissible the court would still almost invariably rule against the Jews. Inside the towns, Jews and other dhimmis were frequently attacked, wounded, and even killed by local Muslims and Turkish soldiers. Such attacks were frequently for trivial reasons.

During World War I in Palestine, the embattled Young Turk government actually began deporting the Jews of Tel Aviv in the spring of 1917—an ominous parallel to the genocidal deportations of the Armenian dhimmi communities throughout Anatolia. A contemporary Reuters press release discussing the deportation stated that,

Eight thousand deportees from Tel Aviv were not allowed to take any provisions with them, and after the expulsion their houses were looted by Bedouin mobs; two Yemenite Jews who tried to oppose the looting were hung at the entrance to Tel Aviv so that all might see, and other Jews were found dead in the Dunes around Tel Aviv.

Ultimately, enforced abrogation of the laws and social practices of dhimmitude required the dismantling of the Ottoman Empire, which only occurred during the European Mandate period following World War I. Remarkably soon afterwards, however,( i.e., within two years of the abrogation of the Shari'a!) by 1920, Musa Kazem el-Husseini, former governor of Jaffa during the final years of Ottoman rule, and president of the Arab (primarily Muslim) Palestinian Congress, demanded restoration of the Shari'a in a letter to the British High Commissioner, Herbert Samuels:

[Ottoman] Turkey has drafted such laws as suit our customs. This was done relying upon the Shari'a (Religious Law), in force in Arabic territories, that is engraved in the very hearts of the Arabs and has been assimilated in their customs and that has been applied ...in the modern [Arab] states... We therefore ask the British government...that it should respect these laws [i.e., the Shari'a]...that were in force under the Turkish regime…

It is within this overall historical context that one must view contemporary Palestinian Muslim pronouncements regarding the status of non-Muslims—Jews in particular, but Christians as well—under past, present, and future under Islamic rule.

For example, Palestinian Authority (PA) Undersecretary for Religious Endowment, Sheik Yussef Salamah, representing the PA at a May 1999 "Inter-Cultural Conference," in Tehran, praised the 7th century system of Ahl Al-Dhimma (i.e, the system of dhimmitude), as the proper paradigm for relations between Muslims and Christians today.

During a Friday sermon broadcasted live on June 6, 2001 on PA TV, from the Sheik ‘Ijlin Mosque in Gaza, Palestinian Authority employee Sheik Muhammad Ibrahim Al-Madhi reiterated these sentiments with regard to Jews:

We welcome, as we did in the past, any Jew who wants to live in this land as a Dhimmi, just as the Jews have lived in our countries, as Dhimmis, and have earned appreciation, and some of them have even reached the positions of counselor or minister here and there. We welcome the Jews to live as Dhimmis, but the rule in this land and in all the Muslim countries must be the rule of Allah

And most recently, interviewed by Wall Street Journal reporter Karby Legget in late December of 2005, Hassam El-Masalmeh, who heads the Hamas contingent at the municipal council of Bethlehem, confirmed the organizations plan to re-institute the humiliating jizya. El-Masalmeh stated explicitly,

We in Hamas intend to implement this tax (i.e., the jizya) someday. We say it openly – we welcome everyone to Palestine but only if they agree to live under our rules.

There have been ceaseless calls for jihad in Palestine during modern times—in the 1920s and 30s by Hajj Amin El Husseini and Izz Al-Din al Qassam; by the late Yasser Arafat throughout his 40-years as leader of Fatah and the Palestine Liberation Organization; and now under Hamas. Hamas's foundational covenant calls for an annihilationist jihad to eradicate Israel. It states, “There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by jihad.” Iranian Revolutionary Guard officers are presently assisting Hamas commanders in arming and training a new jihadist army called the Murbitun—a name which derives from the pious Almoravid religious warriors—Islamized Berbers whose jihad campaigns ravaged North Africa and Iberia in the 11th and 12th centuries. And on April 1, 2006 the new Palestinian Minister of Foreign Affairs Mahmoud al-Zahar made clear the goal of such jihadists, “…our dream to have our independent state on all historic Palestine …will become real one day. I'm certain of this because there is no place for the state of Israel on this land”

Thus let me close with these penetrating insights from historian Bat Ye’or, who observed, that jihad remained,

…the main cause of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Since Israelis are to be regarded, perforce, only as a religious community, their national characteristics – a geographical territory related to a past history, a system of legislation, a specific language and culture – are consequently denied. The “Arab” character of the Palestinian territory is inherent in the logic of jihad. Having become fay territory by conquest (i.e. “taken from an infidel people”), it must remain within the dar al-Islam. The State of Israel, established on this fay territory, is consequently illegal.

And she concluded,

…Israel represents the successful national liberation of a dhimmi civilization. On a territory formerly Arabized by the jihad and the dhimma, a pre-Islamic language, culture, topographical geography, and national institutions have been restored to life. This reversed the process of centuries in which the cultural, social and political structures of the indigenous population of Palestine were destroyed. In 1974, Abu Iyad, second-in-command to Arafat in the Fatah hierarchy, announced: "We intend to struggle so that our Palestinian homeland does not become a new Andalusia." The comparison of Andalusia to Palestine was not fortuitous since both countries were Arabized, and then de-Arabized by a pre-Arabic culture.

Karma Nabulsi, The Electronic Intifada, 15 May 2006

In the last week of April 1948, combined Irgun-Haganah forces launched an offensive to drive the Palestinian people out of the beautiful port city of Jaffa, forcing the remaining inhabitants to flee by sea to Gaza or Lebanon; many drowned in the process. My Aunt Rose, a teenager at that time, survived the trip to began her life in exile on the shores of the Lebanese coast.

Each Palestinian refugee family grows up hearing again and again the stories of those final moments in Palestine, the decisions, the panic, as we live in the midst of their terrible consequences. Throughout 1948 Jewish forces expelled many thousands of Palestinians from their villages, towns and cities into Gaza, Lebanon, the West Bank, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Iraq. Hundreds of thousands of others fled in fear. The purpose was to create a pure Jewish state ethnically cleansed of the original inhabitants who had lived there for centuries.

The creation of the state of Israel was the heart of this cataclysmic historical event for the Palestinians - the mass forced expulsion of a people, the more than 50 massacres carried out over the summer of 1948 by various armed Jewish forces as a means to drive out others who were determined to stay, the physical demolition of the villages after the expulsions occurred to ensure the refugees could not return, all this is summed up in a single word for Palestinians – nakba, the catastophe.

"We must do everything to ensure they (the Palestinians) never do return.... The old will die and the young will forget" said David Ben Gurion, the founder of Israel, in 1949. But the young have not forgotten. In popular celebrations, rallies, marches, rites of return and commemoration young Palestinians all over the world are marking 58th Nakba Week to remember the catastrophe of 1948, the moment that represents the destruction of Palestine, and the violent dispossession and dispersal of her people.

In refugee camps and university campuses inside and outside of occupied Palestine this week vigils, filmed testimonies, lectures, exhibitions, the recitation of the names of more than 400 destroyed villages in local churches, candlelit poetry readings, organized trips to the ruins of those villages by Palestinians who still live in what became the state of Israel in May 1948 have been organised.

Over the last two weeks Israeli citizens – both Jewish and Palestinian – joined together in almost daily marches, rallies and excursion trips to demolished villages on Zochrot’s Bus 194 (named after the UN Resolution of 1948 calling for the return of the expelled Palestinians to their homes). At a rally on the site of Umm al Zinnat, Salim Fahmawi, now 65, a primary school student when the soldiers entered the village 56 years ago to expel them, told an Israeli reporter: "The presence of so many young people, many of whom are third and fourth generation post-1948, gives me a sense of relief - because I know the torch has not been extinguished and is passing from generation to generation."

Unlike official ceremonies aimed at reinforcing national identity these Nakba moments have a uniquely dynamic character as the events play a far different role in the lives of Palestinians today. It is not simply the absence of a sovereign state to perform official rites that makes it so (although this is part of the story). Nor does its unique nature lie in the fact that this engine of identity is emerging entirely from the grassroots and driven by the young generation of Palestinian activists (although it is quite remarkable in this respect). Both of these factors point to its unifying feature: unlike other cultural and social manifestations of national identity, this particular affirmation, and the way it is being engaged upon, is profoundly political.

Why is this newly emerging Nakba commemoration so essentially political in its character? It is so because the work it is performing is intimately tied up with the actuality of resistance rather than seeking to enshrine past memories of victimhood. The specific project against the Palestinians begun at the start of the last century had a dual purpose: first to deny the very concept of Palestine and destroy its political and social institutions, and second to annihilate the spirit of the Palestinians as a people, so that they would forget their collective identity once scattered far from Palestine.

Nakba commemoration is not an attempt to institutionalise a historical national trauma or from the fear that this memory will fade when that generation dies. Instead, because of the relentless and dynamic nature of the Catastrophe – because it is an ongoing daily Palestinian experience – the current attempts to destroy the Palestinian collectivity today bind this generation directly to that older one, and bind the exile to the core of the Palestinian body politic. Indeed the last few years have witnessed a phase of violent acceleration in this process of attempted destruction – hence the title of this year’s event: ‘The Nakba continues’.

The Nakba can be seen again today in the brutal thrust of the current policies of the Israeli state. More than 10,000 Palestinian refugees have been created by the construction of the concrete separation wall, condemned by the International Court of Justice as illegal but that nonetheless has expropriated huge new tracts of occupied land. This wall has turned cities like Qalqilya in the West Bank into ghost towns, and thousands of refugees have been created for the third and fourth time in the refugee camps in Gaza over the last five years. Yet it is not simply in the building of the walls and checkpoints by Israeli occupying forces or the different roads created for Jews and Arabs on Arab land, or the use of specially constructed bulldozers that rip up Palestinian orchards and olive groves on a daily basis and demolish hundreds of homes, or the imprisoning of thousands of political prisoners, or the daily murder of Palestinian civilians which demonstrates the relentless consistency, but in the way the total Israeli military and political machinery is dedicated to destroy Palestinian resistance to their project.

This resistance operates on two levels, for the Nakba operated – and operates today – on both. The first is the Palestinians’ physical effort to resist Israeli attempts to dispossess, disinherit, and physically control their land, to get rid of its people and to militarily control and legally disenfranchise those they cannot. The second lies in the Palestinians’ existential affirmation of their identity in the face of a systematic Israeli effort to fragment and destroy it, so that Palestinians will surrender, submit, forget. What is so interesting is that no matter how violently the first method is used by Israel, the second has been a complete failure: Palestinian identity is stronger than ever in 2006.

Nevertheless, the denial of the Palestinians' right to resist what has been imposed on them has been demonstrated dramatically in recent weeks. We have witnessed the astonishing international policy of imposing sanctions as a form of collective punishment on an occupied people - rather than on their occupier who is maintaining that occupation through brute violence. Vital international aid for basic services has been cut off by the European Union and the US - from Palestinians in the territories occupied by Israel since 1967 - because they elected Hamas, voting for representatives who had campaigned on a platform promising to hold the line against this destruction of their national identity and rights.

The most malicious aspect of this policy is the fact that the money being withheld is only needed because the occupation tactics of curfews, closures and checkpoints have destroyed the Palestinian economy. The financial catastrophe triggered by these sanctions is created entirely by the Israeli occupation itself, as World Bank and British parliamentary select committee reports have made clear.

The punishment of starving the Palestinians is quite blatant: to force them to their knees and make them repudiate their elected representatives. Even more absurdly, Israel has not accepted - or even been asked to accept - any of the parallel conditions being demanded of the Palestinians for a resumption of aid: an end to violence; the acceptance of the 1993 Oslo agreements; or the recognition of a Palestinian state in the territories occupied by Israel in 1967: the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza. Instead they build expand settlements, denounce the Oslo accords, and have used increasingly indiscriminate violence in both Gaza and the West Bank. The west's response in a conflict it helped created 58 years ago has fallen to a deeply cruel, but also truly bizarre level.

This denial of Palestinians' worth has been demonstrated again in the way the US and European media studiously ignore their daily suffering. In the months of April and May, over 40 Palestinians have been killed by the army - most of them civilians, at least eight of them children - with the most perfunctory coverage in the western press. Schoolchildren blown to bits in Beit Lahia whilst in the playground, like Mamdouh Obeid; a mother, Eitan Youssef, aged 41 from Tulkarm, shot in front of her children in their house because troops "thought they saw a suspicious movement"; an old man, Musa Sawarkah herding his flock in Gaza gunned down; Zakariya Daraghmeh, a 37 year old taxi-driver "accidentally" shot in the back in Nablus. ; each one a story unheard, untold.

Yet Palestinians’ notion of steadfastness - summoud - for those still on the land itself as perseverance, and in the refusal to abandon the struggle to return for those living outside of it, has re-emerged as forcefully as ever. The inhuman conditions of Al-Shatat – the Palestinian dispersal – which was aimed at the atomisation of collective experience into individualised experiences – is showing itself to have fortified rather than weakened this collective consciousness.

A remarkable regeneration has been occuring on a broad scale. The early steps have been taken in forging a new common platform that can unite Palestinians, in response to the fragmentation of the previous decade during the disconnection of those inside from the outside. The common quest forged by the liberation movement in the 1960s and 70s was also intimately connected with exile and refugees – it launched its platform from exile upon the principles of return and liberation, and had a sense of the Palestinian people both inside and outside of Palestine as one.

The predicament of military occupation is more starkly recognised, but the predicament of exile has its own merciless characteristics, and continues to create its own bitter experience for Palestinians.

Most young Palestinians today live not under military occupation in the West Bank or Gaza, but in the immediate region outside of historic Palestine in the Arab world: stateless, ID-less, jobless, without the international legal protections of other refugees from other countries. Palestinians in the Arab world live in extremely difficult and complex circumstances.

Most difficult for collective organisation is the inability to communicate openly and legally with each other, both within the host countries and across them, to associate collectively and publicly (a particular difficulty for a people with a history of democratic practices); most difficult on a more basic level is the relentless struggle to live any kind of life at all – to find permission to work, travel, register children in local schools, obtain basic health services, a burial permit, a birth certificate, to marry. Millions of Palestinian refugees and exiles also now live in exile in Europe, Canada, and the United States.

This younger generation, wherever they are, possess a common character created through these harsh conditions of exile, and passed on through the overcrowded manifestations of a memory inundated with place names, old liberation songs, photographs of eternally absent relatives, intimate domestic connections and objects – above all the rusted key to the front door of the lost house, never seen. As the French philosopher and sociologist Maurice Halbwachs first noted, human memory can only function within a collective context. In La Mémoire collective, published as Mémoire et société in 1949 four years after he was executed at Buchenwald, Halbwachs was the first to recognize that memory itself is never individual, but always an entirely collective engagement.

Throughout 2005, young Palestinian activists helped to organise over 100 civic meetings in Palestinian refugee camps and exile communities in over 28 countries in order to bring Palestinians together to discuss the things that Palestinians want to do next.

The most promising thing I witnessed at them was watching this generation replicate something they have no first hand acquaintance with themselves, for it is never talked about and is as yet unwritten: the almost secret history of the underground actions of the previous generation of Palestinian resistants. Their current endeavours echo the same practices, the same spirit, and the same inerring direction. And in today’s reclamation project of the Palestinian past of the Nakba, the younger generation retrieve at the same time another history which is also theirs: the still uncollected stories of the previous generations of fighters who also worked in associations, parties, and groups in a similar collective spirit and with an equal passion.

Although these huge meetings held last year were all organised locally, the transcripts of meetings from places as distant from each other as Australia, Iraq, Egypt, Sweden, Lebanon, Canada, Saudi Arabia and Greece showed that a shared conversation is taking place. By some miracle of the general will, every Palestinian has somehow, through all of the different journeys, arrived together at the same place.

Karma Nabulsi is a politics fellow of St Edmund Hall, Oxford University and a former PLO representative. An edited version of this article appeared in The Guardian on 12 May 2006.

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4714.shtml

>by Not a Dhimmi No More! Wednesday, May. 17, 2006 at 10:26 AM

>by Not a Dhimmi No More! Wednesday, May. 17, 2006 at 10:30 AM



Since they now know we realize that people who sign other people's names can't be trusted, and that we know they do it a lot, they are now trying to make it look like *anti-Zionists* are forging names.

Don't fall for it. It's a form of ad hominem attack, i.e., a way to change the subjecty. The topic of this thread is not anti-Zionists, trustworthy or not. The topic of the thread is "Israel's Silent Holocaust Against the Palestinians." Focus, please.

Can't get off the subject.

Since they now know we realize that people who sign other people's names can't be trusted, and that we know they do it a lot, they are now trying to make it look like *anti-Zionists* are forging names.

Nice try. Anti-Zionists are forging names. Didja really think Becky posted that cartoon of Sharon under her name?

Good link:
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
also:
www.ifamericansknew.org

> Anti-Zionists are forging names.

Unsubstantiated allegation.

>Didja really think Becky posted that cartoon of Sharon under her name?

It didn't have to her, buit that doesn't mean it wasn't. Given their sordid track record on this very site, of all possible perps, the Zionists are by far the most likey.

Not in my experience. In my experience, I have heard "anti-zionists" spout the most outrageous of historical distortions, post false quotes, post porno, post discredited stuff PROVEN false and then re-post it anyway, as well as obvious false posting. Its an every day occurrence. Do you want me to point out that I know that I didn't post things today, that some "anti-zionists" put up under my name?

nessie: "Unsubstantiated allegation. "

You mean, like "The Mossad motto talks about the word 'deception,'" although I have plainly demonstrated that it does not?

You're the king of unsubstantiated allegations, Il Duce, and I can substantiate that.

@%<

I posted the article re: Dhimmi status under Moslem rule but certainly didn't post anything from the ISM propaganda site Elctronic intifada! But false posting from "anti-zionists"? Its an every day occurrence.

> Do you want me to point out that I know that I didn't post things today, that some "anti-zionists" put up under my name?

There is nothing that a Zionist can "point out" that anyone but a fool takes his or her word for.

Write to Nessie,send him packages or call him;

Bound Together Books ('The Anarchist Bookstore').
1369 Haight Street (at Masonic) San Francisco, CA 94117 phone (415) 431-8355

Another zionist wing nut. YAWN

I'm not afraid of these people. What are they going to do, kill me? Just what they need, a American martyr, killed on American soil, by Zionist killers. Just think what a public relations disaster that would be. In death, I would do them more harm than in life. They know that. That's why I'm still alive.

Besides, this guy just calls himself "thug." He's no thug. He's a lily livered wimp who hides behind the internet.

It ok to call me names, I'm used to it. They've called me, "Christ killer", "Jew boy", "Zhid", "Kelbi Yahud", but it doesn't matter although I shall never forget. The days of the timid cowering Jew in the shet'l are over. Now its time to fight these "anti-zionist" Nazis and if that means in the streets so be it. If you feel threatened by the presence of strong Jews, then we know what you are.

Those who would be merciful to the cruel will find themselves being cruel to the merciful.

Thats right, don't worry about a thing. Nothing will ever happen.

You must be kidding me. This wanna-be takes himself seriously, that is hilarious.

Thats right, don't worry about a thing. Sleep tight.

Uh, yeah Yid, we won't. For the more dense folks (like Yid) sometimes you have to e-x-p-l-a-i-n sarcasm. That was a joke. We worry about a keyboard warrior who tells us how big and bad he is about as much as an avalanche in S.F.
You are dismissed little troll for the irrelevant coward that you are.

See you arround!

Scholars and journalists who for years have studied, written and talked about the Israeli- Palestinian conflict suddenly are facing a potential brick wall. This wall, not unlike the concrete barrier now being built by Israel to keep out the Palestinians, is designed to silence all discussion of Middle East issues that involves any form of criticism of Israel on any American university campus. The wall, if it were built, would be created in law by senators Rick Santorum (Pa) and Sam Brownback (Kan.) through an amendment to Title VI of the Higher Education Act. Deceptively to be called an amendment to include "ideological diversity and "sexual equality as prerequisites for federal funding, the real purpose of the measure is to require denial of federal funds to any university whose faculty or students, perhaps even guest lecturers, make statements that are in any way critical of Israel. The argument is that any action or statement critical of Israel is perforce anti-Semitic.

Among hardliner supporters of Israel and the Zionists this type of move has been brewing for some time. Critics of Israeli treatment of the Palestinian people have been increasing in number and clarity. But in human relations there are always several ways to deal with criticism. One obviously is to ignore it. A second is to meet criticism head on with superior proofs and arguments. A third is to kill the messenger. A fourth is to assert that the critic is actually the problem. A fifth is to argue that the critic or even everybody does the thing being criticized. A sixth is to assert that the criticism falls within a broad class of statements that are taboo, e.g., anti-Semitism. When all these essentially social control options prove unworkable, as in the Israeli case they have, the last ditch option is to suppress criticism by law.

Note that the optimum choice is and always has been, of course, to modify the behavior being criticized. However, anyone listening and watching closely what Israeli leadership is doing under Sharon and the Likud party knows that there is no intent whatsoever to modify behavior. That would require acquiescence in creation of a Palestinian state as well as acceptance of the Palestinian State as an equal in the family of nations. This, in turn, would require once and for all determinations of the size and shape of Israel. The Zionist dream of a Greater Israel would have to remain just that.

It may not be possible to persuade the Zionists and their supporters, Israelis, fundamentalist Christians, or well-wishers in general that the only solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict lies through recognition of the rights of the Palestinian people. It may not be possible for Israelis and their supporters to face the fact that denial of Palestinian rights and repression of their freedom are the taproots of Palestinian terrorism. Nor may it be possible to persuade the White House and the Congress, as well as the Democratic candidate for President that unconditional support for Israel is not and never has been a winning strategy for the United States. But they all must understand that continued insistence on this posture is courting a national disaster.

This proposed amendment is an echo of Nazi, Communist and other totalitarian forms of censorship. If enacted it would provide cover for increasing Israeli excesses against the Palestinians. That will surely provoke more Palestinian resistance, including more terrorism. Every member of the Senate and House of Representatives who is worth the confidence we placed in them and the salary we pay them should vote against this amendment. Their best strategy would be to prevent it from coming to the floor. To do otherwise would be to pervert our national laws, to willfully corrupt our diplomatic relations with other countries, and to undermine the intellectual freedom of our higher educational system.

George Washington saw the problem clearly, as outlined in his farewell address more than 200 years ago: " . . . a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest.. and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and the wars of the latter without adequate inducements or justification.. It leads, also, to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which are apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions, by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld."

The definition of national interest as Washington saw it has not changed. Nor has the stickiness of the flypaper wrapped around the proposed amendment. We have conceded to no other nation such a license to interfere in our internal affairs. The way for Israel to reduce or eliminate most of the criticism that is abroad today is to clean up its own act.

Send Nessie something special or call him. Use your imagination.

Bound Together Books ('The Anarchist Bookstore').
1369 Haight Street (at Masonic) San Francisco, CA 94117 phone (415) 431-8355

while the little bitch makes threats from the safety of his keyboard. This comes from the coward who tells us how big and fearless he is in his knit cap, watching and waiting.
You are a lughingstock, even Tia had to call you on your lunacy.
LOL

You'll know when its time.

You're coward threats are a joke. You scare no one as you are just a wittle angwy bitch. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
"You'll know when its time"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

OK, believe what you will. I've been to so many of your events that you think that you know me and that I'm one of yours. Its very amusing. A.N.S.W.E.R., I.S.M., MECA , Al-Awaida, Anarchist Book Fair. If you want to talk like a Nazi, expect to be dealt with like a Nazi. Time and place belong to me.

And since I am commonly identified as a Zionist (although I don't self-identify as one) , I can only assume that someone who sees himself/herself as an anti-Zionist likely posted that offensive cartoon under my name.

I agree, that in the dirty tricks dept., I've seen a lot more false stories posted by the anti-Zionists. I've seen a lot more name-calling, ad hominem attacks, and nasty pictures posted against those who have been labeled "Zionists" than against those who identify as anti-Zionists.

Did the imposter who posted that Sharon/Chronos cartoon under my name also praise the Danish newspaper for printing depictions of Mohammed as a terrorist?

Or is that different? Why would that be?

Nothing would make me happier than a legal excuse to splatter this thug's brain. So, no, I am not intimidated. If they want to shut me up, hot air wont do it. They're going to have to actually kill me. That's easier said then done. But they're welcome to try. Who knows, maybe they'll even get lucky. Stranger things have happened. But that's OK, too. Either way, it's going to look good in my bio, and that's what *really* counts. As the old proverb goes, "Cattle die, men die, kings die. Only the tale lives on."

I've offered this before- you want to talk trash to me, you can do it to my face. I'm not afraid. Toady- Brennans? Berkeley? Or any where public- you name it. I'll buy you a beer and see if you've got the gumption to say any of this to my face.
I think without your keyboard and without your cut and pate, you'll be lost. I'm not bluffing. We can do it on saturday- that way you'll know Yid won't be involved.
Lets see just how brave you are Toady. Scared of a girl? We'll see. Name the time and place.

That goes for you too, Nessie.

Last time I offered to discuss politics in person with him, he vanished for 2 months.

Could we be so lucky, again ?

It's called a "honey trap." That's how they got Vanunnu.

Zionists.
These individuals can be trusted to use any chance what so ever to harm and Very dedicated to their cause, and persistent, if deranged. .
When it comes to allowing them to get within reach there are countless methods of doing this.
Less is better.
Nothing is best.

You get more flies with honey than with vinegar.
But who wants more flies? Wouldn't you want less flies? Wouldn't anyone?
isn't this, in fact, an argument for vinegar?


Nessie; It's called a "honey trap."

No, sweetie. Not me.

And as far as I know, Toady hasn't done anything arrestable. Deplorable, yes. Distasteful, absolutely. Inappropriate- almost always. But not arrestable.

But its so sweet of you to accuse me. Now he's probably quaking in his birkenstocks. Do you realize your paranoia does more to elevate our reputation that anything we've ever actually done?

Yid makes threats all the time, Tia, even you called him on it when he was doing all the steaking out, "watching...waiting" crap. While anyone who talks about how big and bad he is, posts people's addresses and makes threats from behind the safety of their keyboards, is certainly no menace, it shows his true insanity.
The fact that he took the time to physically go check the palce out also speaks volumes re: his mental stability--that's taking things way beyond fucking w/ people on a discussion board around heated political issues....

So, nu, Nessie tell us how they got Fauissson.

They didn't. He merely lost his job. To lose one's job for one's political views is always unjust. But it's not the end of the world. It pales next to what happened to Vanunnu. By comparison, Vanunnu is the far better man. He is, in fact, one of the great heroes of the last century.

Fauissson, on the other hand, was an obscure academic of no consequence and less fame. He's not even a very good scholar. He would have languished in his obscurity had not some truly stupid people made a martyr of him and thus gave credence to his theories in the minds of many, many people who would otherwise never have heard of him.

Zionists aren't as smart as they think their are. But then, neither were their mentors, the Nazis. Reason numbing hubris is the curse of all who harbor master race fantasies. In the martyrdom of Fauissson, the Zionists are hoist with their own petard. In attempting to silence him, they made him famous, and spread his ideas. It was a mistake that impacts, not just Zionists, but every Jew, and everyone, Jew and non Jew alike, who wishes Holocaust denial an early and well deserved death.

Holocaust revisionism, on the other hand, is quit another matter. Do not confuse denial with revision. They are two quite different things. Denial flies in the face of the evidence. But for truth to win out and justice be done to the honor of the dead, the popular, but misleading, myth must be revised. The six million figure is totally bogus. The toll was much, much higher. But historical revisionists of the Zionist persuasion would have us believe that only Jewish deaths should be counted. This is a patent absurdity and offensively racist. Thirteen million people died in the camps alone, and that was just in the camps. The bulk of the Holocaust did not take place in camps, and Jews were a minority of the victims. To claim otherwise is to spit on tens of million of graves, those of Jews included.

See:

http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/26.html

Notice the fuckwad 'Toady' posted the links to NK and IAK under my nym and 'nessie' didn't chime in with his spammed spiel about black propaganda.

Yes, folks, in nessie's eyes even the Holocaust denial movement is something to be blamed on The Jew.

@%<

Zionism and Anti-Semitism
We implore and beseech our Jewish brethren to realize that the Zionists are not the saviors of the Jewish People and guarantors of their safety, but rather the instigators and original cause of Jewish suffering in the Holy Land and worldwide. The idea that Zionism and the State of “Israel” is the protector of Jews is probably the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the Jewish People. Indeed, where else since 1945 have Jews been in such physical danger as in the Zionist state?!

Jews are enjoined by their religious laws to be loyal to the country of which they are citizens. Ever since the destruction of the holy Temple in Jerusalem and the exile of the Jewish People some two thousand years ago, we have been enjoined to be scrupulously loyal to the countries we reside in. One of the great biblical prophets, Jeremiah, in chapter 29 of his book proclaimed G-d's message to all the exiled; verse seven reads, "Seek out the welfare of the city to which I have exiled you and pray for it to the Almighty, for through its welfare will you have welfare." This has been a cornerstone of Jewish morality throughout our history to this very day.

Torah-true Jews wish to live in peace and harmony with their neighbors in every country among the community of nations, including in historic Palestine. They deplore acts and policies of violence carried out by those who, misusing the name of Israel our forefather, have substituted the ideal of chauvinist nationalism for the eternal values of the Torah, the eternal divinely bestowed inheritance of the Jewish people.

It has been the age-old intention of Zionism to intentionally stir up anti-Semitism anywhere possible, and even more commonly, to take advantage of any Jewish suffering anywhere in order to enhance its cause Indeed, hatred of Jews and Jewish suffering is the oxygen of the Zionist movement, and from the very beginning has been to deliberately incite hatred of the Jew and then, in feigned horror, use it to justify the existence of the Zionist state – this is, of course, Machiavellianism raised to the highest degree. Thus, the Zionists thrive on hatred and suffering of Jews, and seek to benefit thereby through keeping Jews in perpetual fear, causing them to ignore the true nature of Zionism, and instead to consider the Zionist state is their salvation.

ANTI-SEMITISM BY POLITICAL ZIONISM
Although Zionists and others dispute it, the undeniable fact is that revolutionary secular and apostate elements in the Jewish community in Europe contributed greatly to hostility towards Jews after World War I. This aroused hatred of Jews in general among many non-Jews. While a prisoner in 1924 in the fortress of Lansberg on the River Lech, Hitler wrote his Mein Kampf. When he became Chancellor of Germany in 1933, he was assisted by Goebbels, Roseberg and Streicher. From them came the declarations, “The Jews of Germany caused the defeat of Germany in the 1914-1918 war; the Jews of Germany were responsible for the terrible conditions in Germany that followed the war; the Jews of Germany are foreigners and they wish to remain foreigners; they have no loyalty to the country of their birth; they are not human; they are filthy dogs; they have no right to intrude into Germany’s affairs; there are too many Jews in Germany.

As far as Zionism is concerned, the founder of Zionism and apostate, Theodor Herzl, sought to intensify hatred of the Jew in order to enhance the cause of political Zionism. Here are some of his “pearls”:

“It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-semites shall be our best friends”. (From his Diary, Part I, pp. 16)
Additional words from the vivid imagination of this dreamer, from p. 68 of Part I of his Diary.

So anti-Semitism, which is a deeply imbedded force in the subconscious mind of the masses, will not harm the Jews. I actually find it to be advantageous to building the Jewish character, education by the masses that will lead to assimilation. This education can only happen through suffering, and the Jews will adapt.
Hateful views of Jews as being subhuman did not have to be invented by Nazi theorists such as Hitler, Goebbels, Rosenberg and Streicher. This ideology was simply adapted from statements of political Zionists such as those found in the writings of the Zionist Yehezkel Kaufman in 1933.

In 1920 there were statements hostile to Jews expressed at Heidelberg University. These statements, arguing that Jews of Germany had caused the turmoil that followed the war; that the Jews of Germany had nothing in common with Germans, and that Germans had the right to prevent the Jews of Germany from intruding into the affairs of their volk were not made by Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf, but by Nahum Goldmann, who went in to become the President of the World Zionist Organization and head of the World Jewish Congress, and, indisputably, the most influential political Zionist in the world, second only to the Prime Minister of the State of Israel.

In 1921, Germans in Germany were told that:

“We Jews are aliens… a foreign people in your midst and we… wish to stay that way. A Jew can never be a loyal German; whoever calls the foreign land his Fatherland is a traitor to the Jewish people“.
Who spoke these vile words? It was Jacob Klatzkin, the second of two political Zionist ideologists in Germany at the time, where the Jews of Germany were enjoying full political and civil rights. It was he who had advocated undermining Jewish communities as the one certain way of acquiring a state. “They had no qualms concerning tearing down the existing Jewish communities.”

Who spoke in a public address at a political Zionist meeting in Berlin and declared that “Germany… has too many Jews”? Was it Hitler or Goebbels? No, it was Chaim Weizman, later to become the first President of the State of Israel. This address was published in 1920, and, thus, four years before Hitler had even written Mein Kampf.

How many Zionist Jews know of this vicious treachery uttered by these senior political Zionist leaders, these apostates from the Jewish People? At the Nuremberg Trials of Major War Criminals, Nazi propagandist, Julius Streicher testified: “I did no more than echo what the leading Zionists had been saying”, it is clear that he had told the truth.

In addition to Hitler, Rosenberg, Goebbels and Streicher, many other Nazi leaders used statements from Zionists to validate their charges against the Jews of Germany. Such are the efforts of Zionist leaders to this very day to maintain a high degree of anti-semitism in order to enable them, in feigned horror, to then point to anti-semitism to support their idolatrous and anti-Jewish cause. In 1963, Moshe Sharett, then Chairman of the Jewish Agency, told the 38th Annual Congress of the Scandinavian Youth Federation that the freedom enjoyed by the majority of Jews imperiled Zionism, and at the 26th World Zionist Congress, the delegates were told that the Jew is endangered by the easing of anti-Semitism in the United States “We are endangered by freedom” he declared.


Ben Gurion's Scandals
Available in our bookstoreAs we stated earlier, Zionism thrives on anti-Semitism. Ben Gurion declared, “…not always and not everywhere do I opposed anti-Semitism”. Zionists regularly pull out their handy “anti-Semite” race card against anyone, Jew or non-Jew, who dares to speak out against the wickedness of Zionism.

During World War II, the Lehi organization, an offshoot of Begin’s Irgun that was headed by Yitzchak Shamir sought an alliance with Nazis! The following is a quote from the writings of the Lehi in their contact with the Nazis:

"The establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis and bound by a treaty with the German Reich would be in the interests of strengthening the future German position of power in the Near East ... The NMO in Palestine offers to take an active part in the war on Germany's side ... The cooperation of the Israeli freedom movement would also be in line with one of the recent speeches of the German Reich Chancellor, in which Herr Hitler stressed that any combination and any alliance would be entered into in order to isolate England and defeat it."
To those who assume that Zionists have been on the side of freedom and equality, these words seem strange. However, to those who understand the root of Zionism, which is the transformation and eradication of the concept of the traditional Jew and Judaism, these statements are not strange at all. They are to be expected.

The Zionists agreed with Nazism in general, even prior to the advent of Nazism. They believed that Jews could not, and should not, live in harmony in any other society in the world, and that should be removed from those societies for the benefit of those societies. They believed that the new Jewish existence in its own State would remake the image of Jews as “useless” and “parasites.” These ideas existed long before Adolf Hitler!

There is a huge amount of literature describing how the Zionists made it very difficult to save Jews during and after World War II. As various individuals and organizations were trying to arrange departures of Jews to western countries, the Zionists worked overtime to prevent this from happening. They expressed the opinion that building up the Jewish population of Palestine was more important than enabling Jews to go to third countries, and they insisted to western powers that Jews should not be accepted anywhere other than Palestine. Indeed, Yitzchak Greenbaum, a famous Zionist, proclaimed that “one cow in Palestine was worth more than all the Jews in Poland.” The infamous David Ben-Gurion said in 1938:

"If I knew it was possible to save all the children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution. For we must take into account not only the lives of these children but also the history of the people of Israel."
Read about the brutal Zionist role in the Holocaust.After the war, a Zionist “religious” leader, Rabbi Klaussner, who was in charge of displaced persons presented a report before the Jewish American Conference on May 2nd, 1948 :

"I am convinced people must be forced to go to Palestine...For them, an American dollar appears as the highest of goals. By the word "force", I am suggesting a programme. It served for the evacuation of the Jews in Poland, and in the history of the 'Exodus'... To apply this programme we must, instead of providing 'displaced persons' with comfort, create the greatest possible discomfort for them...At a second stage, a procedure calling upon the Haganah to harass the Jews."
It is ironic that the Zionists proclaim their State as the safe haven for the Jewish People, when since World War II no place on earth has been as dangerous for Jews, both spiritually and physically, as the Zionist state.

The Zionists worked relentlessly to create fear among Jews in the Arab countries after the Zionist state was established. Their tactic work most successfully in Yemen, Morocco, Iraq, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia.

It is common knowledge among Iraqi Jews that during 1949-1950 the famous Zionist, Mordechai ben Porat, who had the nickname of Morad Abu al-Knabel (Mordechai Bomber), was instrumental in seeking to bribe Iraqi officials after the creation of the Zionist state to pass laws to encourage Jews to leave Iraq. This was enhanced by the Zionists planting bombs in synagogues in Baghdad in March 1950. Information about this is readily available on the internet.

Read "The Jews of Iraq" by Naim Giladi, a first hand account of violence and intimidation of Iraqi Jews to leave their homeland.The writings of Mr. Naim Giladi document in detail what the Zionists did in Baghdad in 1950 to provoke the departure of the Jews to the Zionist state. The Zionists do not care what effect their policies have on the Jewish communities of any country. When they accuse European nations of every sin under the sun, do the Zionists care that this will produce hostility towards Jews? No! Not a bit. On the contrary, as we have discussed, they thrive on such circumstances, clinging to the vain hope that these Jewish communities will rush for the “salvation” of the “safe haven” of the Zionist Paradise where Jews are in constant danger as the Zionist regime undertakes every form of cruel provocation against non-Jews.


Horrifying Accusations of Violence and Intimidation
Read MoreIn more recent times the Zionists have sought every opportunity to encourage Jews to leave their home countries. Anytime there is even the smallest event of hostility toward Jews on the heels of Zionist policy, or if there are signs of economic distress and dislocation, the Zionists magnify it a thousand times, seek to ruthlessly humiliate the nations involved, and agitate for Jews to go to the Zionist state, the so-called “natural home” of the Jewish People. This has been the case in countries such as France, Argentina, Uruguay, the former Soviet Union and Egypt.

The promises of the Torah are always to be realized. This verse from the Torah demonstrates that those who are his enemies will pay a price when The kingdom of G-D will prevail.

Deuteronomy 32:43: Praise his People, O Nations: For he will avenge the blood of his servants. He will render vengeance against his adversaries and make expiation for his land and his People.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sources:
Guardian Volume two Issue 7
Satmar Grand Rebbe Joel Teitelbaum
The Jews of Batna, Aleria: A Study of Identity and Colonialism by Elizabeth Friedman.
The Jewish Communities of Morocco and the AIU by M. Laskier, State University, Albany, N.Y.
The Impact of Western European Education on the Jewish Millet of Baghdad by Maurice Sawdayee.
Outcaste Jewish Life in Southern Iran by Laurence D. Loeb. Gordon and Breach.
The Last Arab Jews. The Communities of Jerba, Tunisia by Abraham Udovitch and Lucette Valensi. Harwood Academic Publishers.
The GENOCIDE IN THE HOLY LAND (available for purchase on the site)
Ben Gurion's Scandals by Naeim Giladi (available for purchase on the site)

and spammed an anti-Zionist screed because I'm out of arguments. I'm weakminded.

I wish zionists would stop the forgeries.
It's getting really confusing
Let's get it straight: Zionism is racism.
All these rabid frothing at the mouth flailing trolls for israel better stop forging posts.