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The problem with Israel.

by Digery Cohen Saturday, Mar. 25, 2006 at 4:41 AM
digerycohen@yahoo.co.uk

Its problems are becoming our problems.

The problem with Isr...
ispal.jpg, image/jpeg, 360x485

The problem with Israel?

It is not a viable state as it is.

It has no water, soil, oil or minerals.

All it has is a desert religion book based on an ancient caravan route and goats.

As the Chief Rabbi of Israel said, “ The only justification for Israel to exist is that god gave us the land”.

In the last century the Zionists had to slaughter and ethnically cleanse the Palestinians to get their land.

This century Israel wants, and for its continued existence needs, Lake Tiberias and the Jordan River.

If it does not get this it will be finished.

No need for Ahmadmejad to do anything except to sit on his hands for 5 years.

The only solution to this is that the Palestinians and Israelis form a joint country.

They are all Semitic people and understand each other.

Their joint fundamentalists can pray together in Jerusalem and the rest can swim in Tel Aviv.

The only other solution is that we in Europe request that our citizens whose ancestors we slaughtered 60 years ago in our gas chambers come back and join us.

We would have to pay them resettlement money and compensation for what we did but it would be worth because the Yiddish people were our best and most knowledgeable citizens.

Otherwise we will waste this century in bloodshed like the last one.

Is a country called Ispal possible?




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impossible

by Meyer London Saturday, Mar. 25, 2006 at 10:26 AM

It is impossible for Israel to survive as a viable state on its own; right now it is being kept alive by the feeding tube of US aid. That has been true for a long time; it is probable that even in the days of Jesus the majority of Jews were living in Egypt and other neighboring areas because Judea and the Nazzerine region simply did not have the natural resources to support them.
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Israel would be fine if it were not for the "savages"

by Meyer London Sunday, Mar. 26, 2006 at 8:31 AM

Yeah, the Israelis could still manufacture Uzi machine guns and produce millions of bags of sand, suitable for export to places like New Orleans and Gulfport, Mississippi.
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Poorly reasoned article

by think about it Tuesday, Mar. 28, 2006 at 1:51 PM

"Israel is nothing but a shitty little country."
During a reception at the home of a leading columnist for the London Daily Telegraph, Daniel Bernard, French ambassador to England, told guests that the world's current troubles were all the fault of "...that shitty little country, Israel."

"Why," he asked, "should the world be in danger of World War Three because of those people?"

Of course, for hypocrisy and anti-Semitism, there's no one like the French... after all, they're the same folks who wouldn't allow their German conquerors during World War II to trouble themselves to round up the Jews in France... so the French happily and dutifully rounded them up themselves, and turned them over to the Germans...

But... is Israel really a "shitty little country"? A closer look would reveal that France should follow the Israeli example. After all... Israel, the 100th smallest country in the world, with less than 1/1000th of the world's population, can lay claim to the following:

The cell phone was developed in Israel by Israelis working in the Israeli branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center in Israel.

Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel.

The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.

Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel.

The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel.

Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.

The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.

Israel has the fourth largest Air Force in the world (after the U.S., Russia and China). In addition to a large variety of other aircraft, Israel's air force has an aerial arsenal of over 250 F-16's. This is the largest fleet of F-16 aircraft outside of the U. S.

Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.

Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita

According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline industry's most impenetrable flight security. US officials now look (finally) to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.

Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.

Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people --as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.

In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the U.S. (3,500companie s mostly in hi-tech).

With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and startups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world -- apart from the Silicon Valley, U. S.

Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the U.S.

Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East.

The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.

On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech startups.

Twenty-four per cent of Israel's workforce holds university degrees, ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland and 12 per cent hold advanced degrees.

Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.

When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world's second elected female leader in modern times.

Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly process, an international standard that certifies diamonds as "conflict free."

Israel has the world's second highest per capita of new books.

Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because this was achieved in an area considered mainly desert.

Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.

Medicine... Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.

An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper administration of medications, thus removing human error from medical treatment. Every year in U. S. hospitals 7,000 patients die from treatment mistakes.

Israel's Givun Imaging developed the first ingestible video camera, so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the inside, cancer and digestive disorders.

Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives among those with heart failure. The new device is synchronized with the camera, helps doctors diagnose heart's mechanical operations through a sophisticated system of sensors.

Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U. S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force employed in technical professions, Israel places first in this category as well.

An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in southern California's Mojave Desert.

All the above while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy that seeks its destruction and an economy continuously under strain by having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other county on earth.

And unlike France, Israel actually wins its wars.




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bless you, France

by luv it. Tuesday, Mar. 28, 2006 at 3:07 PM

"Why," he asked, "should the world be in danger of World War Three because of those people?"

And why fund them so much money?
And listen to nitwits who bring out accomplishments paid for by the American tax payer while they wag their nuclear dick around under their pants.
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Do you mean Nuclear France?

by Not a hypocrite Tuesday, Mar. 28, 2006 at 3:53 PM

We bailed France out in two wars, even though they were Vichy in WWII. Then they went nuclear, nuked South Pacific islands for testing (some islands are still French occupied) and sunk a Green Peace Ship!
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trying to play catch up?

by jimmy Critic Tuesday, Mar. 28, 2006 at 4:22 PM

Can't let Israel have all the fun.
Now can we?
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Israel invented the cell phone

by Meyer London Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 9:02 AM

Ah, something else to hold against that country, besides inventing the Uzi machine gun. But they did enter the 21st century with more trees - they used to have two, but now they have three.
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Used to have Date forests

by Till the Arabs came Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 12:10 PM

Israel used to have forests of date palms, till the Arabs invaded. The forests were burned for charcoal. "Um Al-fahm" means "mother of charcoal."
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Israel wins wars, unlike France

by Meyer London Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 12:10 PM

I guess you never heard of the Battle of Tours, which stopped the attempted Muslim conquest of Northern Europe in the early Middle Ages. Or of a fellow named Napoleon Bonaparte. Or of the fact that the American Revolution would not have succeeded if it were not for French solders and sailors. Or of the Battle of Verdun, arguably the most important battle of World War I, in which the French, with no outside help, defeated the mightiest army on earth. Not to mention Joan of Arc and the Hundred Years War against England.
The Battle of Verdun is a bit more impressive than Israel's defeat of badly armed Third World peasants, attempting to stop zionist theft of their land.
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Forgot some things

by Not a Dhimmi No More! Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 12:14 PM

You forgot the invading armies of five Arab nations in 1948, including the British lead Arab Legion. No one called Arabs "Palestinians" before 1964. Thats why its called, "The Arab-Israeli Conflict" not the "Palestinian-Israeli Conflict." Read a book before you post dumb comments.
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the cell phone

by Hex Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 12:18 PM

the list

well I'm not even going to step into that tar pit, but the cell phone really where do you draw the line - we had mobile phones here for years, first VHF, then UHF, then trunked systems which really are the first cell phones..

it can be said they developed further improvements at times along the evolution of them..

but what else do they have to do with our money in the desert ?

they certaintly like having their fingers in the pie and get to provide nearly all our billing (spying) processing

my how convenient !

our money pays for the P.R. they posted above - naturally designed to put them in the best possible light, while ignoring anything bad (like the calling records spy scandals)

after all - it's just "fairness and honesty in reporting" !

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five nations

by Meyer London Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 12:31 PM

The "five nations" sent, for the most part, relatively small and badly armed forces to Palestine, and were heavily outnumbered by the Israeli troops and terrorist squads. Even so, they won some victories - the Israelies failed in their attempt to seize the Old City in Jerusalem, and the small Iraqi force soundly defeated the Israelis in another battle, defending land that was finally annexed by Jordan.
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forgot something

by Tia Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 1:57 PM

"The problem with Israel?
It is not a viable state as it is.
It has no water, soil, oil or minerals."

You forget its most important resource: the intelligence , dedication and tenacity of its people.
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And also...

by Not a Dhimmi No More! Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 2:01 PM

Then the Arab forces ethnically cleansed all those areas, including Jerusalem of all Jews. 56 Synagogues were descrated. Jewish cemeteries were uprooted and the headstones used as paving blocks. Thats exactly when "East Jerusalem" was invented. Jews were barrred from praying at the Western Wall til' 67. And in all the time that the West Bank was occupied by Jordan, there was no call for any type of separate "Palestinian" State.
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whew

by Concerned Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 3:16 PM

why are all the Zionists swarming on this website?
yakking away about why we have to put up with their shit, and pay for it.
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Becky's to blame

by Hex Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 3:36 PM

JA exposed her feeding activists to Horowitz's S.H.I.T. list and got her fired from her cover position of playing the "sweet concerned activist" mole to gather info on us

so she went and cried to ISRAPUNDIT and drew them here to punish us for it

...we're trying to ignore them knowing without the attention they crave they'll eventually go away

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Whew

by Lord Locksley Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 3:56 PM

"why are all the Jew-hating little bigots swarming on this website?
yakking away about why we have to put up with their shit, and pay for it.
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this pretty well sums it up

by Hex Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 4:03 PM

this pretty well sum...
becky_and_company_reforming_us.jpg, image/jpeg, 618x569

insecurity and stupidity are the root cause of blacklists and witch-hunts ^
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'Witch Hunts'

by Lord Locksley Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 4:08 PM

...which goes a long way toward explaining why you have tried so hard to shut me up......unsucessfully I might add.....and why all your anti-semitism is simply chaff in the wind
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why - are you a witch ?

by Hex Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 4:15 PM

> unsucessfully I might add

that's not my intention




> your anti-semitism

have any [cough] proof of that ?



P.S. - nothing can shut up a troll, but *in the future when you flame bait I have dirt on you to show people what a waste of time you are and therefore you will be ignored*


- alas phase 2

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blow chunks

by zesper Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 4:21 PM

These nut cases are everywhere.
Let them handle their own problems without our "help".
They need to give up all the nukes and land they've stolen and start acting with honor.

If that's not too much to ask,
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ah ha !

by Hex Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 4:28 PM

"spewing anti-semitism on your little radio"


well look what popped up !

a.) you've been digging
b.) Becky's been whining

so which is it King George ?


please oh please tell me your real name so I can call the FCC and pull your "little anti-semitic ass" off the air

in true witch-hunt style !

- think you're going to do a FRSC number on me..

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Heh

by Lord Locksley Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 4:34 PM

"why - are you a witch ?"

...nope..,..thats.the point....and witch hunt was your term...not.mine

.....'phase 2"....heh...if.you.had any real dirt.on me you would have already posted it....not that it would shut me up...you dont have the cojones to do that...much less.the.brains....do.your.worst,lame-o
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synagogues desecrated

by Meyer London Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 4:37 PM

Hmm, seems like zionism did not do much to decrease anti-semitism, as some of its advocates claimed it would. Maybe it even helped make it worse.
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Israel's most important resource

by Meyer London Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 4:39 PM

is the tons of military equipment and tons of money that gets sent to it from the United States. In other words, the US taxpayer is its most important resource.
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your weakness is my strength

by Hex Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 4:40 PM

> somebody who got banished from a Pacifica radio station


is sour graping over a "no-name" someone who IS on the radio - MY radio

it must really gall you to know that I can play anything I want when you got the boot for trying to come even close to doing it - and only for a short time block

but then again I don't spew hate and make threats -

mission failed - report back to Becky at once for reassignment




> Maybe it even helped make it worse.

agreed and yes, maybe it intended it to

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Uh huh

by Lord Locksley Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 4:49 PM

"s sour graping over a "no-name" someone who IS on the radio - MY radio "....heh...hardly....now.you're just projecting...I did my thing in radio years ago..and had lots of fun...but then,as now,Pacifica cant stand an alternative political viewpoint....I did my radio.legally and in broad daylight....you run your littlen 'pirate' station in the dark because you dont have the ability or intelligence to do it any other way...makes you feel almost like a real revolutionary doesnt it?...never mind that you choose to live permanently outside the law

Now what was that about 'phase 2',you little.phony?
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sour grapes II - the denialist speaks

by Hex Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 5:09 PM

sour grapes II - the...
sour_grapes_2_the_denialist.jpg, image/jpeg, 187x324

"to live permanently outside the law"


hahaha the convict is lecturing about being outside the law

well it's true - maybe (ever heard of part 15 ?)

but in any case better outside the law than INSIDE THE PEN - no ?

"oh - I don't WANT to run my mouth that got me banished for life and thrown in the pen on the radio anyway"
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Hex the 'working class hero'

by Lord Locksley Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 5:18 PM

"Oh I dont want to do regular legal radio...I'd rather pretend I'm a revolutionary and do pirate radio to gain street cred with the other fever-swamp lefties.who hate GW and Israel just as much as I do"

.......what about your much heralded 'phase 2'?...having second thoughts?....did you suddenly realize that would be the internet equivalent of hurling BB's at a batleship?
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"fever-swamp lefties.who hate GW "

by Hex Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 5:45 PM

"fever-swamp le...
goose_but_not_gander.gif, image/gif, 619x570

"how DARE you ask me to prove you hate like I ended up in the pen for doing" ^


> (hate) Israel just as much as I do

[cough] again, have any proof to back up ?
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Hex the 'pro-Israeli'

by Lord Locksley Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 6:00 PM

Proof?....heh...now hex thinks he is in court....tell.ya.what.hex...you tell.me you love Israel and I will apologize...(like that's going to happen)
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I love Israel

by Hex Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 6:13 PM

there you go King George

I'm waiting...

(now we'll see what what's REALLY not going to happen)

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Hes the Zionist

by Lord Locksley Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 6:19 PM

.....not 'king George'....I'm a Plantagenet...not a Hanoverian....try Henry X.....and I am truly sorry I said you hated Israel....you are obviously a closet "Zionist"....notwithstanding the insincerity of your professed love for Israel....which nobody on IMC takes seriously....least of all me
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I was right

by zesper Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 6:20 PM

these Zionists are swarming.
Orders coming down to plaster pro Israeli wonderfulness.
What are they planning? More bloodshed or is this to cover something up that hasn't happened yet?
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"I am truly sorry I said you hated Israel"

by Hex Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 6:27 PM

 "I am truly so...
i_love_israel.jpg, image/jpeg, 423x294

I'm glad you said that - it's a keeper :)

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Any time,Hex

by Lord Locksley Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 6:34 PM

....always glad to expose a closet 'Zionist' for all theJew hating lefty bigots on IMC....not that any of them will take you seriously (wink,wink,nudge,nudge)....so my apology is worth just as much as your profession of :love for Israel....for the record, I am solidly pro-Israel...and I dont consider being called a Zionist as an insult...considering the source of the insult.....now what about 'phase 2', Isadore?
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"for the record"

by Hex Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 6:42 PM

> I am solidly pro-Israel

really ? who would have ever guessed ?

now - what was that about "spewing anti-semitism on your little radio" ?

did you dig that up, or did Becky the "fair & balanced honest activist" tell you ?
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Not really

by Lord Locksley Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 7:19 PM

....but seeing how you deal with people who are pro-Israel here on IMC,it would be consistent with your ideology and poliitcal disposition....not much of a leap in logic there...or would you have me believe that you broadcast Jewish love songs?....after all Israelis are just as 'undesiraable' as me,right?....company I am proud to keep as long as the left persists in its 'marriage made in hell' with jihadi whackos that want to 'drive Israel into the sea'....or whatever the rant-of-the-week consists of.....still waiting on 'phase 2',Rabbi
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assumsions are not the things proof consist

by Hex Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 7:38 PM

> consistent with your ideology and poliitcal disposition

a.) you don't even know if I have an "ideology" at all as I only report & relay facts

b.) you haven't been here long enough anyway to say even if I had

c.) being supposidly unprepared to enumerate any details whatsoever puts your assumption in a rather awkward light

- I posted a sample of ROCK MUSIC only

which you expressed doubt was even authentic disregarding the server location and timestamps

funny how you climb to the next level of non-denial then depend on it without ever acknowledging your mistakes and oversights - even going out on a limb to *accuse* fromwhich-

"spewing anti-semitism on your little radio"

now we're treated to covert backpeddling - "well I automaticly assumed"

not much to base throwing around accusations of anti-semitism on is it ?

but then again accusing people of anti-semitism to blacken them and stifle open debate is your stock & barrel - no ?


see I can accuse you of being a hater and can back it up with your court & prison records

you accuse me of airing anti-semitic programming and back it up with - NOTHING


..typical

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Correction

by Lord Locksley Wednesday, Mar. 29, 2006 at 8:24 PM

I think you mean 'a-s-s-u-m-p-t-i-o-n-s' don't you,hex?.....you see what being a Mensa alumnus can do for you?
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shall we list the ways ?

by Hex Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 12:36 AM

shall we list the wa...
king_george_down.gif, image/gif, 622x578

what being a Mensa alumnus can do for you;

1.) cause you to get kicked out for being a blowhard ass due to putting politics ahead of intelligence

2.) cause you to not rise to even a sargent - to go nowhere in the military

3.) cause a failed campaign you can brag about but not be bothered to show evidence on

4.) turns you into a "loyal freeper" that makes sweeping generalizations as "facts"

5.) has you talking dirty and stalking on the phone for amusement

6.) gets you arrested and sent to prison for your phone activities

7.) makes your big mouth that can't control it'self get you banished for life

8.) turns you into a troll that amuses himself by calling strangers names for fun

9.) keeps you busy all day and half the night doing such "contructive", "enlightened" befitting activities

10.) makes being a tap dancing game playing lying racist out to be something positive

11.) has you nit picking non issues like typos as answers when like a true hypocrite you've made numerous one's youself (which I wasn't petty enough to cite or shallow enough to change the subject to)

12.) causes you to make baseless a-s-s-u-m-p-t-i-o-n-s that you backpeddle on when asked to support or even just elaborate on

13.) gets you calling people anti-semitic as a catch-all and be-all argument of last resort

14.) makes you *fly* to the BOP's website to see just how many of your skeletons were laid bare

15.) produces paranoia that turns you into an emotion-driven reactionary puppet on a string

16.) erases all shame, respect, fairness and humility in liu of attention seeking world-revolves-around-ME activities

17.) turns you into a failure cheetos armchair warrior who tries to dictate how other people dialogue by butting in and disrupting

19.) places all burdens of proof on strangers when you force the subject to be you to begin with

20.) causes lazyness and sloth to be elements of "winning" arguments which are self-declared at will

21.) makes cheetos blogging out to be an enlightened activity while real work or goals are ignored

22.) scientific enquiry is thrown out the window while beliefs and superstitions take center stage

23.) hypocrisy is relished and used as a crutch to prop up unsupported and unimportant issues


a failed ex-Mensa "genius" is where it's at !

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Addenda

by Lord Locksley Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 1:45 AM

24) causes bigoted no-name revolutionary wannabes to midndlessly obsess endlessly about someone who makes him feel insecure to the point of mania and to project his own inadequacies onto others due to his inability to establish that said Mensa alumnus lied about his Congressional candidacy
25) causes said bigoted no-name revolutionary wannabe to make ominous threats about some childish 'phase 2' which never materializes thereby demonstrating what a fraud said wannabe really is
26) baits said wannabe to such an extent that the wannabe shows everyone on IMC what a soulless bloodbag he has become
27) demonstrates that the bigoted no-name wannabe has neither the cojones nor the brains to wear him down or shut him up with ad hominen as he had intended
28) causes said wannabe to affect morals and ethics where none exist as a facade to disguise his utter spiritual bankruptcy
29) demonstrates vividly what an intellectual cesspool.the wannabe resides in with his fellow lefty hate pimps
29)accomplishes his purpose...in spades
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imitation - the sincerest form of flattery

by Hex Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 3:20 AM

notice though how I cited actions and behaviors whereas your "original, creative" imitation concentrates on *name calling, putdowns, labels, generalizations* and ad hoc redundant invective



such are the thoughts of a "genius" mind...


> ominous threats about some childish 'phase 2' which never materializes thereby demonstrating what a fraud said wannabe really is


we're *in* phase 2 now - the exposure continues and you're still sandboxed as well


allow me to explain - phase one *establishes* your status as a troll by *digging dirt* - which I have done and presented..

this is to be sure you really are useless and a waste of time, with solid evidence, so that later when you whine (like you already have on Houston IMC) about being treated "unfairly" there's a ready supply at hand of damning data to support it

you see "genius" I saw what transpired there, and noticed the dirt didn't come out until quite awhile *after* you had been trolling

and that said dirt is what "ruined it" for you, as your pleas were in vain after that point

this is how many trolls get their just ends - someone finds dirt on them and exposes them which causes people to be disgusted and call for their BANISHMENT (a concept you have some experience with it having happened three times so far)

your skeletons tend to follow you around - like ghosts they haunt you, but since ghosts aren't solid there's nothing to strike out at - nothing to make contact with

as a ghost myself your jibes are useless since I have no dirt - no skeletons

but your own ghosts - demons - follow you around short circuiting and preventing you from simply going elsewhere and repeating your game

and at the same time, actual people "no-name" ghosts are free to haunt your activities and travels, carrying your own personal ghosts along for the ride

no cries of injustice can neutralize your own ghosts (dirt) and attempts to attack the social justice minded ghosts who carry them are ineffective

both on a personal level and socially..

so while you can chant your "no-name wannabe" mantra to your heart's content, it's really only just so much whistling-in-the-dark to bolster your own ego

the ghosts don't mind or care what tune you whistle..

all they care about are your personal demon ghosts, your skeltons, your dirt, the net sum of which is *entirely of your own making*

so what phase 2 really does is have your dirt follow you everywhere and elect - when thought to be desirable - to expose your ass

usually I'll hold back and wait until you dig yourself a shallow grave before the invisible boot knocks you in

sometimes the grave will be deeper, other times you may skirt past without any exposure

it depends on my assessment of what constitutes the most "bang for the buck" - the buck being my time and the bang being your embarrassment/banishment/exile

now don't leap to faulty conclusions that I'm empowered to acually effect said results directly -

remember - I'm only a ghost, I don't run or moderate this newswire or anywhere else you're likely to go or be


but my dirt collecting activities, along with EXPOSURE at opportune times often greatly facilitates the outcomes

and being a ghost, it's no risk or personal concern to me



so you've failed to grasp several key aspects of what the situation really is ( not surprising for a Mensa genius - no ? )

you've also failed to look at my track record (which takes time I admit as you don't have the automated tools and methods I use, but most especially the attention span or will, since "all your bases belong to YOU", self-centered self-absorbed people have little time for anything or anyone else)

again your weakness being my strength - I'm a researcher, an explorer a digger of facts and your tiny world of me-me-me is but a brown stain on the mattress of life

obsess is not an accurate way of looking at it either - that would be too self-serving, self-centered and self-important, which although typical of the mentality of a troll doesn't actually reflect the situation

- case in point (my track record)

other trolls have come & gone, some of whom tried that exact same ploy (well you're just obsessed with me !")

but now they are gone and here I am, still here - with no sign of said persons to be "obsessed" with..

if I tracked them down and stalked them (again something YOU are only too familiar with having went to prison over it) THAT would be obsessed..


in summary while cheap self-soothing thoughts and utterances may make you feel better by keeping those scary ghosts, skeletons and demons out of mind, such "mature intelligent" activity actually impacts nothing, changes nothing and fools no one

excepting yourself..


pleasant dreams !
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my superior _pasted_ intelligence blinds thee

by Hex Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 7:17 AM

please, allow me to correct the mistakes of the madness of King George


> Soldiers of the Cross have no demons,no ghosts,no skeletons


perhaps not - but you sure do, eh convict ?



> we only have annoying little pests who nip at our heels

only ARE annoying little pests who nip at the secret cervix's heels




> nuisances who worship their own feces before hurling it at us


well this needs no correction - except before trolling / posting them at "us"



> hoping the stench will somehow intimadate us or give us pause


"intimadate" - whoopsie, shall I cite the Mensa genius ?

"see what being a Mensa alumnus can do for you?"


and this "we", "our", "us", "us" and "us" syndrome


boy that's the sign of a balanced mind - eh "King" ?



> something you have attempted but failed to do on a grand scale


naturally !

because ;

a.) I'm NOT attempting at all (as I clearly explained above - I guess it got past your "superior _pasted_ intellect")

b.) notice how eveything is grand, you're grand - sorry "we" is grand, your cause is grand, your lineage is grand (a given - what madman's isn't ?)

even your coat of arms is grand..

and according to your Federal Bureau of Prisons inmate file, your underware is grand too



> blinded by your own hubris


I can see clearly now, the troll is mad

escaped from the loony bin, he came our way

caught in the tangled bush, his undies snagged

gonna be a bright, bright, bright sunny day

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Hex's wishful thinking

by Lord Locksley Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 11:48 AM

"Soldiers of the Cross have no demons,no ghosts,no skeletons


perhaps not - but you sure do, eh convict ?

....sorry,hot shot.......I count myself a Soldier of the Cross,too...the demons,ghosts,and skeletons you would impute to me are simply products of your own fetid little mind,,,...mere wishful thinking

"nd this "we", "our", "us", "us" and "us" syndrome


boy that's the sign of a balanced mind - eh "King" ?

...indeed it is...the pronouns in question refer to myself and my fellow Soldiers of the Cross...plural

"a.) I'm NOT attempting at all (as I clearly explained above - I guess it got past your "superior _pasted_ intellect")

....you clearly are...as you said in an earlier post...your self described little 'job' here is to 'wear down' and drive off so called 'trolls'...you just cant stop lying can you?...as for "superior _pasted_ intellect"...your phrasing again...not mine...but a rhetorical device in keeping with your carpet bombing mentality

"and according to your Federal Bureau of Prisons inmate file, your underware is grand too"

.....you've never seen my file....yet another lie...

"I can see clearly now, the troll is mad
escaped from the loony bin, he came our way "

......more wishful thinking from IMC's 'resident psychiatrist"

"caught in the tangled bush, his undies snagged"

....what is this fixation you have with my underwear?...Sigmund Freud would have a field day with that one

....the truth is not in you,hex..as should be obvious now to even the most casual observer...and you have yet to establish that I didn't run for Congress in 1974...so you just go on pretending that I am somehow obliged to prove that to your satisfaction..heh...if you want to pretend that you're the gatekeeper here,then far be it from me to burst your bubble....your imagination is truly worthy of note
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wow

by wow Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 12:12 PM

wow
talk about thread jacking.
wow
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now don't get your panties in a wad

by Hex Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 12:48 PM

now don't get your p...
wad_in_your_panties.jpg, image/jpeg, 600x600

or in your case a wad in your panties :)

> fixation you have with my underwear

Well move to Arizona, breathe heavy on the phone, and go to prison again - you'll blend right in


Re: "King George's" Federal Bureau of Prisons inmate file


> you've never seen my file

liar liar panties on fire - so says my computer

I told you I D/L'ed all three - told you why, told you what *I* thought was amusing

Freud would have a *coronary* over that I'm sure however it doesn't change the facts

You ARE in the database and your "unpleasant truths" are a classic case study in psychology

that you would be in denial about it is hardly surprising but look at what you posted on Houston IMC - not too shamed about it after all

just shamed here

what a shame


'wear down' and drive off (trolls) / (as) the gatekeeper here / carpet bombing mentality

third time (I'll make it simple enough for even a Mensa genius can understand)

I _f_a_c_i_l_i_t_a_t_e_ via datamining

(that's dirt digging for all you "soldiers of the cross" Mensa geniuses)

as to bombing - YOU PROVIDE THE BOMBS


the bombshell in this case being your rap sheet


consider your rap sheet and particulars to be the sword of damocles

- you troll here at your peril

call it "carpet bombing", lies, unfair, whine, plead, feign ignorance, attack a ghost - whatever you wish but that's the reality of the situation

I'm sure your lies are swallowed on freerupublic without question and as a "loyal freeper" for 3 years and counting, you have an image to uphold - what freeper wants to be associated with a pansy, mentally ill, heavy breathing phone stalker, who calls himself "King George" and a "Mensa genius" to gain footing in endless mud slinging pissing contests that his *whole life consists of* timestamps reveal

and *who went to prison for it*

how much credibility could one have - how smart could one be ?


your prison record speaks for itself - ANYONE can obtain the same information - it's *already been posted on Houston IMC*

Not a very effective "soldier" but the term allows you to escape your past

I'm here to make sure you *CAN'T* escape your past - to hold your closet door wide open and show everyone your skeletons

you have a whole closet full of them too - and some are dressed rather oddly too :)

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Nice try,Hex

by Lord Locksley Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 1:07 PM

"I told you I D/L'ed all three - told you why, told you what *I* thought was amusing "
....yes,you told me that....and it;s a lie...you have no access to my BOP file and it cant be downloaded from their website anyway.....a complete fabrication

"You ARE in the database and your "unpleasant truths" are a classic case study in psychology"

....see above

'who calls himself "King George"

.....your invention from beginning to end

"your prison record speaks for itself - ANYONE can obtain the same information - it's *already been posted on Houston IMC*

.....the particulars of my file are not available to "ANYONE" and were never posted on HIMC...another lie

....as to my underwear which you fantasize about:...nobody knows what I wear..certainly not you...but it is amusing that you keep pretending you do....you certainly didnt get anything about that from my BOP file that you pretended to download....if you had you would have excerpted it.....you have real issues there,dont you?
....
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here's the dirt (bag)

by Hex Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 1:15 PM

Re: 'who calls himself "King George"

> your invention from beginning to end



http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/tnw/pressreleases/2001/2001OCT16_threattogoreuncle.pdf


“KING OF ENGLAND” SENTENCED FOR THREATENING TO KILL GORE’S UNCLE



PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:


October 16, 2001


U.S. Department of Justice

United States Attorney

Western District of Tennessee

800 Federal Office Building

Ph: (901) 544-4231

Memphis, Tennessee 38103

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Leigh Anne Jordon (901) 544-4231


Terrell L. Harris, United States Attorney for the Western District of Tennessee, announced today the sentencing of Robbins L. Mitchell, Jr., 53, of Houston, Texas, for Threatening an Immediate Family Member of (former) Vice President Al Gore, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 879(a)(2).

Mitchell was sentenced today by Chief United States District Judge James D. Todd to a term of 18 months in federal prison, for threatening to kill Gore’s maternal uncle, Whit La Fon, 82, a retired state court judge inJackson, TN



Mitchell was arrested last December in Houston by the Secret Service, who was familiar with Mitchell based on phone calls he had placed to the Carthage, Tennessee home of former U.S. Senator Al Gore, Sr. in 1997.

In the earlier investigation, Mitchell advised Secret Service agents that one of his favorite subjects was the death of Al Gore, Jr.

At his guilty plea on May 18th, Mitchell admitted calling the office of La Fon repeatedly and leaving voice mail messages last November.

Tapes of the calls were played in court documenting the threats to kill La Fon if he did not convince then Vice President Gore to concede the election for President of the United States being contested in Florida.

In one call, Mitchell, identifying himself as “The King of England”, promised to personally drive to Jackson and kill La Fon himself.

Mitchell’s attorney advised Judge Todd that Mitchell, through genealogical research, believes he is the lawful heir to the Crown of St. Edward and thus, is the rightful King of England.



http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/tnw/pressreleases/2001/2001OCT16_threattogoreuncle.pdf

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So What?

by Lord Locksley Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 1:20 PM

Where is the part that says I ever referred to myself as "King George'?....as previously stated, I am a Plantagenet...not a Hanoverian
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hey kidz - notice a _tiny_ inconsistency here ?

by Hex Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 1:30 PM

"your invention from beginning to end"

-posted the dirt-

"so what?"


(I rest my case)

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Not really,hex

by Lord Locksley Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 1:40 PM

"'who calls himself "King George" .

...'who calls himself "King George"

....George is a Hanoverian name...not Plantagenet....not that you would know or understand the differnce

.....I would be Henry X by Plantagenet reckoning....see any good book on the history on the Crown of St Edward

....and that silll doesnt change the fact that you never 'downloaded' any 'files' from BOP about me.that contained anything other than the court proceedings...the above posting appeared in news accounts
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watch that sword there "King" it's got a sharp edge

by Hex Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 2:11 PM


> not that you would know or understand the differnce

of course not - because I'm "the product of an attenuated bloodline"

your files on me prove it !

whoops - you HAVE NO FILES ON ME

you don't even have any idea who I am...

but you're SURE that my "bloodline is attenuated"

don't tell me - a crystal ball ?

P.S. I already posted excerpts from your file - I guess you missed it

- according to the Bureau of Prisons privacy policy, I'm not allowed to post anything beyond what's *now* publicly available as it violates your constitutional rights and thus could get me in hot water, causing IMC staff to delete the post

so *even if I did it wouldn't matter* - it wouldn't stay up

I think I made my point however...

the picture where the man has on the silky billowy undies that *I pointed to* is almost EXACTLY accurate

that's as close as I could find as a public domain photo

not that it really matters - hell we're tolerant toward "unconventional" people here -

I can poke fun at your fashion sense up to a point - I cannot say hateful abusive things

- like you do all the time...


so we'll let sleeping dogs lie - I mean what color your underwear is doesn't really matter - sometimes I wear grey, red, black and even blue ones (not baby blue though)




hey - one time I was riding my bike (near Columbus, Indiana) and this truck passed me and a pair of red frilly panties flew out the driver's side window ahead of me - with a small note attached with handwriting on it

I didn't think much of it and kept riding..


then, a little while later the same truck passed me again, and AGAIN the pair of panties was thrown out the window - again with the handwritten note attached


I knew something was up then so I kept a close eye out


then I saw the truck coming towards me in the opposite lane (to make a third pass I expect) so I unclipped my portable scanner and held it up acting like I was talking in it, while looking at the truck as it passed (acting like I was reporting him)


I kept an eye out but he didn't bother me anymore after that - the ploy scared him off



that man could have been you - no ?

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hex the prevaricator

by Lord Locksley Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 2:27 PM

hex the prevaricator...
gimme-a-fucking-break.jpg, image/jpeg, 300x391

"of course not - because I'm "the product of an attenuated bloodline"

....I never said that about you....another lie

"but you're SURE that my "bloodline is attenuated"

...see above

".S. I already posted excerpts from your file - I guess you missed it

...all you posted was the newspaper account because that's all you have

"- according to the Bureau of Prisons privacy policy, I'm not allowed to post anything beyond what's *now* publicly available as it violates your constitutional rights and thus could get me in hot water, causing IMC staff to delete the post

...true,but irrelevant....you have no files to post other than news accounts because nobody can download personal files from the BOP website....news accounts being the notable exception......pure McCarthyism.."I have here in my hand a list of names"

"the picture where the man has on the silky billowy undies that *I pointed to* is almost EXACTLY accurate

....you have no way of knowing...that pic is just another example of wish being father to the thought

"so we'll let sleeping dogs lie - I mean what color your underwear is doesn't really matter - sometimes I wear grey, red, black and even blue ones (not baby blue though)

....see above

"that man could have been you - no ?

...I've never been in Indiana..never owned a pickup truck...but your panty fetish is quite revealing
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"but your panty fetish is quite revealing"

by Hex Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 2:55 PM

yeah - so is your BOP entry

no - I was just minding my own business riding my bike - I had to ward off the attention of someone like you


I wear regular *mens* underwear - end of story

what the deal is with the ladies underwear and trying to get men to wear them isn't knowledge I'm privy to

and you don't seemed inclined *on here* to elaborate, even though you did a few years back on Houston IMC - *unless of course you're going to deny that as well* - claim someone spoofed your posts ?

Well we always have Joe Arpaio - he *forces* men to wear them - as official policy to "save money" he claims...

then again he's not as bad as a department in Texas (?) - where they provide *no underwear at all* to the inmates !

so what would *that* be called - an *anti-underwear* fetish ?


P.S. - the picture you just posted (aw jeez - not this shit again, despair-despair-headache)

what's the matter there "soldier" - am I ^_wearing you down_^ ?

maybe I'm just making fun of you, maybe we're here *laughing our asses off looking at your BOP entry on one screen with your drivel on another*..hahahahaa


kinda keeps you tied up - and us in stitches hahahaaa
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Keep trying,hex...heh

by Lord Locksley Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 3:08 PM

"yeah - so is your BOP entry "

...you wouldnt know since you dont possess it

"and you don't seemed inclined *on here* to elaborate, even though you did a few years back on Houston IMC - *unless of course you're going to deny that as well* - claim someone spoofed your posts ?

...people put up false postings in my name on HIMC from time to time...even the editors of HIMC will tell you that

"maybe I'm just making fun of you, maybe we're here *laughing our asses off looking at your BOP entry on one screen with your drivel on another*..hahahahaa

....I don't doubt you're laughing...but not at anything from my supposed BOP file that you pretended to
download...unless you hacked their computer...is that what you are inferentially admitting?

....but I do acknowledge your ability to make the ignorati here on IMC believe you did....trouble is,hex, that anybody can visit the BOP website and find out for themselves that what you claim to have is unavailable for download...you shouldnt post lies that can so easily be descredited
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they used to be

by Hex Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 3:59 PM

I already said that


the first is a comma delimited DOC file which is a *name to inmate register number listing*

the second is a comma delimited DOC file which is a master listing of all inmate details - listed by inmate number (not by name)

so you have to use the first list to find out the inmate number;

ROBBINS LEE MITCHELL

Register Number

97192-079

Age

57

Race

White

Sex

M

Release Date

03-29-2002


(I sorted the fields vertically here because comma delimited data doesn't post right on here plus the field headers are all the way at the top)

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well?

by amazed Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 7:00 PM

are you finished trashing this thread?
Both of you?
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Well actually.......

by Lord Locksley Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 7:13 PM

....all I ever wanted to do was use this thread to find out how many Jew-hating lefty pissants were trying to hide their antisemitic bigotry behind the euphemism of 'anti Zionism' when 'hex' decided to flush his toilet and it overflowed....but when you work in the sewer I supposed that goes with the territory.....what they call an occupational hazard
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tell me then

by amazed Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 7:29 PM

What's to discover?
What a lefty is?
What anti-semetic is?
And does Zionism represent all Jews?
You can lose the insults and grand stereotypes, however.

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Simple really

by Lord Locksley Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 7:35 PM

...to discover just how deeply imbedded into the lefty psyche this "anti-Zionist" meme is......not that it fools anybody
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come back

by amazed Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 7:41 PM

you can come back without the fuckwit sloganeering too.
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"wow" I'm "amazed"

by Hex Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 7:41 PM

"wow" I'm ...
billder_in_king_george_pink.jpg, image/jpeg, 278x416

wow I'm amazed


> flush his toilet

and a King size turd bubbled up

- it's in the blood



what's the matter Bill - are you feeling left out & lonely ?

slip some of those magic bio-rings on your fingers

you'll feel better in no time

maybe Robin can give you some fashion tips - under the table so-to-speak

'specially the hair - you'd look pretty in pink

I know he does ;)

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Oh,Really?

by Lord Locksley Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 7:44 PM

....I'll..leave the so-called 'fuckwit sloganeering' to you...since you seem to be so familiar with it...I have no idea what that means...I'm just trying to show people that "anti-Zionism" is just anti-semitic bigotry in disguise....if you have a problem with that.go tell the Rabbi
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hate to break a date

by Sheepdog Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 7:46 PM

particularly when it's someone else's date.

ha ha
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well King Robin may very well become

by Hex Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 7:52 PM

the new resident Ferrous Cranus

who knows ?

he's got the qualifications for sure - he even did "hard" time over it

but then again I shouldn't favor him really - after all you're mostly on our side just "misguided"

he's clearly a crackpot - again with the rap sheet to prove it, plus he hates us all

you don't - you only hate me

that's something I guess



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Hex is projecting again

by Lord Locksley Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 7:56 PM

"Robin of Locksley" hates nobody....certainly not 'hex'....he doesnt warrant that kind of emotional energy
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don't hate you, Whizz

by Sheepdog Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 7:59 PM

I do feel sorry for you. I certainly don't approve of your methods.
And since you're always asking me to post pictures of myself why do you keep posting this funny photo which you now feel called upon to further modify?
'Cause you're insane?
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the wayback machine says it's you

by Hex Thursday, Mar. 30, 2006 at 8:14 PM

it's insane, isn't it ?

Aerosol Crimes (AKA Chemtrails).torrent



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actually not, Whizz

by Sheepdog Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 3:09 AM

And your mistaken ID quest has what to do with the criminal state of
Israel?
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well if it's mistaken

by Hex Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 3:24 AM

where's Billder and where's you ?


Billder has posted/plugged luxefaire 329 times yet has never has a single word to say to me

or you

and you are so paranoid (or simply lying - imagine that) that you can't provide even a shread of evidence to show it's a mistake as you claim

the best you've done is post pictures of dogs (hey - what do *they* have to do with social justice issues like the situation with Israel ?)

hypocrite - no ?


your repatriar' just doesn't add up and neither do your weak/lame excuses

but the expected *hostility and resentment* shine through brightly :)


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ha ha ha ha

by Sheepdog Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 3:33 AM

Aint gonna happen, Whizz. Go and play your silly game if you feel you must.
Posting any information about me would be foolish, so quit trying to prod me into it.
I don't want to have to kill anybody.

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it's as silly as you make it

by Hex Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 3:39 AM

it's silly to deny the hundreds of posts that use the same keywords

it's silly that "he" would have nothing to say about it

it's silly to be so paranoid that nothing at all can be presented to refute it

it's silly to hide behind extreme paranoia as a shield from the truth

and you're silly to expect us to believe you are dangerous or important

yes - silly is a good way to put it
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little me?

by Important and Dangerous Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 3:45 AM

You make me chuckle.
I am * popular* but I never tried to be either 'important *or* dangerous'.
Annoying, yes.
:>)
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So Whizz, tell me...

by Sheepdog Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 3:57 AM

What do *you* think the problem w/ Israel is?
Too many nukes?
Run by a bunch of assholes and war criminals and modern day Nazis?
They fund too many weasels?
what?
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"annoying" - and SILLY

by Hex Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 4:04 AM

the sillyest thing of all is

your altered metrics affected him -

(since the exposure of the website plugging scam directed at *you*, "HE" stopped plugging it)


whoopsie - something else you failed to account for

what a silly charade you have there "sheepdog"


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my dear little Whizz...

by Sheepdog Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 4:09 AM

...I assume that you're small
Like a twig boy.
And you have this mission...
so let me repost in case you are slow.

So Whizz, tell me...


What do *you* think the problem w/ Israel is?
Too many nukes?
Run by a bunch of assholes and war criminals and modern day Nazis?
They fund too many weasels?
what?
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oh - that old tarpit (sheepdip)

by Hex Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 4:11 AM

> a bunch of assholes and war criminals and modern day Nazis

well, if I were to stoop to your level of a child in school name calling (which science tests reveal is exactly where you're at)

"autodidactics.com"

didactics, meaning self-taught

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

that accounts for your education level as well - no ?
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yes, Whizz but...

by Sheepdog Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 4:17 AM

how do you account for your obsession on me?
-blush-
I know I'm one damn good looking dog,

but you on the other hand
...I assume that you're small
Like a twig boy.
And you have this mission...
so let me repost in case you are slow.

So Whizz, tell me...


What do *you* think the problem w/ Israel is?
Too many nukes?
Run by a bunch of assholes and war criminals and modern day Nazis?
They fund too many weasels?
what?
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( while Whizz is typing...)

by Sheepdog Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 4:20 AM

Why don't you just admit you're here to trash treads?
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"just admit you're here to trash treads"

by Hex Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 4:38 AM

"just admit you...
nut_case_wannabes_can_only_wish.jpg, image/jpeg, 202x286

I'm here to trash threads

and I love Israel

just ask King Robin - or you

two nuts in a peanut shell

ferrous cranus I and II

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-poke-Oops, wrong thread- ha ha ha

by Sheepdog Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 8:45 AM

I thought that worked out pretty well.

Just thought I'd type a few lines.
Even though you have hogged this thread w/ your personal problems...
And esper/mentat super computer, data mining ...( boring! ) sluth skills don't you think you could at least provide some substantiation to your ramblings?
I mean, really!
Funny pictures just wont do.
We need DIRT.
You know about that.
Not some poor dickweed in NM.
If, however you insist on making this guy ( who never talks about me! ) to be me ( and he never says I'm not him! ) you can proceed to do so even when trying to get any more information on me .

I'm glad I get to ask you questions.

Like do you think Israel has more or less than 200 hell bombs?
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what about THIS ? hmmmmmm ?

by Hex Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 10:14 AM

since the exposure of the website plugging scam directed at *you*, "HE" stopped plugging it

care to explain why he reacts to what happens to you ?

-yet there's absoutely *no connection* you claim - without a shred of evidence of course since you're "too dangerous and important" to cough up any

the best you can say now is you've been posting AS him - including his email

(and lets not forget how you've EXPLODED on more than a few occasions when I only mentioned *him*)

now why would that be I wonder...

[Israel has bombs]



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you claim - without a shred of evidence

by Sheepdog Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 10:40 AM


Like I am gonna try and prove a negative.
.You so funny....me laugh
"you claim - without a shred of evidence" is just about it.

But of course you need to.
Let's talk about Israeli influence in foreign policy,
And their dangerous instigation of conflict with Iran.





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"try and prove a negative"

by Hex Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 11:08 AM

it's extremely easy to do - simply provide a positive

in simple terms you can prove who you *are not* by proving who you *ARE* insted

like I have, samples, snapshots, your yard, non-identifiable pictures of you, your "inventions" - *anything at all* would do (and no the stupid dog pictures you got off the 'net don't count)

credibility - (even) fresca is completely correct about that - you have none AT ALL

and you don't have *any* actual reason not to post something - any little scrap like I have, EXCEPT -

you're a damned liar and game player with nothing better to do than spam the newswire with plugs for your scam website for free advertising where you draw in the gullible to buy fake antiques, magic bio-rings and false useless Tesla info along with your ignorant paranoia soaked dribble you attempt to *Sell* - hell lately you can't even give the shit away, so you invited people to FTP to your "ultra secure" server using the name & password you provide *publicly*
hahahahaha

that's real security - require password access then *give out the password* ahhahahaaza

Howard pinned you down after just 1 post -

"a scam artist trying to sell a book"


do we expect scam artists to come clean, to be honorable and do the right thing ?

hell no

just keep piling lie upon lie - a stack that's become dangerously high and could hurt YOU if it collapsed

THAT'S the danger and the reason you can't come clean..

you've lied so much and so long about it, you can't possibly save face while admitting even one of your own actions like exploding at me when I only mention "him"

your face would collapse along with your tower of lies..


[Israel's nuclear bombs are dangerous]

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Israel's nuclear bombs are dangerous]

by Sheepdog Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 11:21 AM

At least you got that right.
Good boy.
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oh I missed that - sorry

by Hex Friday, Mar. 31, 2006 at 11:23 AM

"Let's talk about Israeli instigation of Iran"

my latest data says Israel will fire a Sunburn missile at one of our aircraft carriers and Iran will be blamed for it - *since Iran has them* (a false flag operation like they did with the USS Liberty)

So they'll get US to attack Iran using our own nukes with us taking all the heat (after all just 1 or 2 nukes detonated over Israel would virtually wipe them off the map because they're so small)

that way they get to save their arsenal and for later use

(they also have Russia and by extention China to worry about)


again a war-by-proxy situation in other words

I have links but let's see how well you can accept this little gem of knowledge first (your record thus far has been less than stellar)
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Aerial Map of Israel & neighbors

by Becky Johnson Saturday, Apr. 01, 2006 at 10:04 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

While one of the above posters believes that Israel ONLY increased its trees from "two to three," this aerial map tells a different story.

Please note how green Israel is compared to its neighbors, or even the areas currently under the civil Palestinian Authority.

they have had these areas for ten years now, and could have planted a few orchards if they were of a mind to.

Israel has produced some of the most high-tech irrigation and drip-irrigation systems in the world to make maximum use of a very precious commodity: water.

These technologies are infinitely exportable, and provide promise to all arid countries of the world.
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yeah - by stealing all the water

by Hex Saturday, Apr. 01, 2006 at 10:17 AM

Israel takes over 80 % of available water - in some cases for things like swimming pools, the average Israeli gets more than 10 times the water a Palestinian does, the ratio is getting worse, and the Jordan river is nearly running dry which is 20 % untreated sewage anyway..

within a few years it will be bone dry..

*and Israel isn't doing anything about it*

they want to expand into other countries lands to steal their water (like they've already done with Palestine's groundwater) because they know the water situation is becoming critical

nice spin Becky put on it though - as usual

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Map of Tunnels

by Becky Johnson Saturday, Apr. 01, 2006 at 10:21 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

REPLY TO SHEEPDOG: Here is a map of the tunnels found in Rafah and along the Egyptian border.

The IDF has found 200 tunnels in the region near the Egyptian border, with Rafah being the center of smugglers activities. The Nasrallah family home was not slated to be bulldozed the day Rachel Corrie died.
In fact, it was not destroyed until TEN MONTHS LATER and only AFTER the Nasrallah family had already moved out.

Was it an egress for the tunnels? I don't know for sure (and neither do you) but I have not heard of any direct evidence that it was used to access a smuggling tunnel.

The IDF was flattening a field that day. All ISM eye-witness reports confirm that the tank and bulldozers were moving around in a (fallow) field and that NO HOME was bulldozed that day.
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ooh - troll baiting again, the rerun

by Hex Saturday, Apr. 01, 2006 at 10:27 AM

well that was a quick change of subject

I guess the watered down reality of your glowing-as-usual prop for Israel got - washed out

so it's back to the trenches

I mean tunnels

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Project Mockingbecky

by Sheepdog Saturday, Apr. 01, 2006 at 11:23 AM

Note to BECKY
I have a list here I found of asshole Zionist.

And you're on it.
It's "authentic" like yours.
When can I drive a D9 up to your residence?

To look for terrorist tunnels.

There have been many reported in your area.
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Anti-Zionists Lie

by Not a Dhimmi No More! Saturday, Apr. 01, 2006 at 1:28 PM

Anti-Zionists lie about Israel because truth is less important than an advancing their ideoogy.
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"lie about Israel"

by Hex Saturday, Apr. 01, 2006 at 1:33 PM

have any [cough] proof to back that up ?

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2nd try to post aerial map of Israel

by Becky Johnson Saturday, Apr. 01, 2006 at 1:45 PM
Santa Cruz, CA.

Okay, I hope the photo posts this time.
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Project Mockingbecky

by Sheepdog Saturday, Apr. 01, 2006 at 2:01 PM

"advancing their ideoogy."
says the dwarf. Like stopping the GENOCIDE.

And that geography photo represents what Israel wants....
The entire region.
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the photo - posting tips

by Hex Saturday, Apr. 01, 2006 at 2:31 PM

the newswire re-sizes everything to 600 pixels width so that a browser at 800 x 600 screen resolution will show the text properly without stretching (without having to side-scroll which is really annoying)

and the pictures are re-encoded in lossy format (jpeg)

so if the original isn't also 600 pixels wide, there's a re-sampling error during re-encoding which hurts the resulting picture because every so many pixels (depends on the ratio of the original to 600) a line of them has to be dropped

this partially erases text in such pictures making them hard to read and further reduces even non-text images quality

so I recommend that you resample the picture by opening it in a lossless editor (most editors are - they use bitmaps internally) and resample it yourself to 600, 300 or 150 pixels, then encode to as high quality as you can for the format you want to use (because it's about to undergo another decompression/compression cycle to appear on screen even though the original file you sent is available by clicking on the link below it)

I've found 600 x 600 to be the minimum optimal size by trying different sizes - which is why almost all the pictures I've edited that I post are 600 x 600..

so the one you just posted is above optimal size and it's an odd pixel count as well (multibles or even divisions of 600 are best)

I've also found occasionally the process of uploading pictures or other files screws up - whether this is due to newswire code or human intervention is an open question but most likely is software error

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-stupid dog pictures -

by Sheepdog Sunday, Apr. 02, 2006 at 5:21 PM

That does it.
Now I'm hurt.

But what does that have to do with Israel, their GENOCIDE practiced upon the People of Occupied Palestine, their undeclared nuclear arsenal. their dangerous instigation of wars through dual citizen members of this administration and their asshole moles that ride this wire to derail threads?
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wow

by Sheepdog Sunday, Apr. 02, 2006 at 6:06 PM

Do you reload this page every minute in order to reply to my comments?
Cool.

But still...
... what does that have to do with Israel, their GENOCIDE practiced upon the People of Occupied Palestine, their undeclared nuclear arsenal. their dangerous instigation of wars through dual citizen members of this administration and their asshole moles that ride this wire to derail threads?
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no - that time

by Hex Sunday, Apr. 02, 2006 at 7:01 PM

I just happened to refresh the *comments page* not long after you posted and loaded this thread

When I'm doing my usual research (reading, surfing, grabbing pictures & files) and I keep a browser opened on the recent comments page..

this time I didn't check until I read a bunch of user reviews on one of my wifi adaptors while looking to see if there are any newer or custom firmwares available;

http://www.google.com/search?q=Linksys+%22WUSB11+USB+Wireless+Network+Adapter%22+firmware&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&start=20&sa=N

[this has nothing to do with Israel either]


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but I do have more dirt on AIPAC

by Hex Sunday, Apr. 02, 2006 at 7:03 PM

Franklin, a committed neoconservative ideologue, didn't care if he betrayed our sources and methods, and possibly endangered agents in the field, and neither did his handlers at AIPAC: all they cared about was giving some advantage to Israel, and if that had to be gained at America's expense, well then tough.

The authorities gave Franklin enough rope to hang himself with, and then quietly reeled him in – in mid-July 2004, when they confronted him and got him to cooperate in the investigation. They wired him up and sent him on his way. He met with Rosen and Weissman and emphasized the top secret nature of the information he imparted, explicitly warning them not to use it. Whereupon they blabbed it all over town, including to members of the media.

The FBI then contacted Rosen and Weissman, both blithely unaware of their former cohort's betrayal. They denied having received any classified information from Franklin. Incredibly, this very strong indication that the feds were on to their game did nothing to deter the AIPAC spy cabal from continuing to spill U.S. secrets to further Israel's agenda. On Aug. 20, 2004, less than two weeks after being visited by the FBI, Weissman got in touch with "another member of the media and disclosed to that person classified national defense information obtained on July 21, 2004, from Franklin. Weissman," the indictment continues, "further advised that he was trying to arrange a meeting between Franklin and another member of the media." The AIPAC gang is nothing if not brazen.

However, as Labor Day weekend 2004, drew near, they started to panic: Rosen got in touch with his Israeli superiors and, declining to talk about the specifics over the phone, indicated the need for an urgent meeting. The authorities were listening to every word as the spy ring scrambled to cover its tracks, following their targets through the streets of the Beltway, as they met outside the train station, and in one day changed restaurants three times in order to evade any possible surveillance.




The new indictment adds more serious charges to those already lodged against Franklin, including conspiracy to communicate classified information to an agent of a foreign government, a violation of this statute as well as this one. He could wind up with a 50-year sentence.

Rosen is charged with two counts, good for 20 years, and Weissman is hit with one count that carries a 10-year maximum, but the unindicted co-conspirator here is AIPAC itself.

What emerges from this indictment is AIPAC's role as an organization that functioned as a lot more than a mere Washington lobbying group, but rather one whose primary objective is intelligence-gathering on behalf of Israel. Rosen, the man who more than anyone else embodied AIPAC, had served as its foreign policy director and main spark plug since 1982, and it is clear from the indictment that the FBI's counterintelligence crew has been watching him since at least 1999. If that doesn't make AIPAC an accessory to Rosen's crimes, then one wonders what would.

Rosen used AIPAC's resources, both financial and political, to carry out a sophisticated spy operation inside the Pentagon, involving not only Franklin but an entire subterranean network of informants and other assets, government officials who regularly provided information and pushed Israel's agenda inside the administration. AIPAC functioned, in effect, as an organized conspiracy on behalf of a foreign power, a funnel that not only poured money into pro-Israel candidates in both major parties and lobbied furiously on behalf of Tel Aviv, but also operated as a virtual clearinghouse of classified information, laundering it through the media – and, of course, funneling it back to their Israeli handlers.

As the issue of Iran's alleged push to procure nuclear weapons takes center stage, AIPAC's efforts to sway U.S. policy – including stealing and leaking U.S. secrets in the service of their pro-Israel agenda – could not have been exposed at a more opportune time. Franklin's trial is scheduled for Sept. 6, although this new indictment could delay matters, but one thing is clear: When these people are finally brought to trial, it is the War Party that will be put in the dock. All those mysterious government officials, not identified by name in the indictment, will be called to testify under oath: the same goes for reporters who laundered Franklin's ill-gotten secrets. The whole neHere's what the stories in today's Washington Post and New York Times on the new indictments of the two AIPAC spies aren't telling you: their espionage was principally about helping to prepare an attack by Israel on Iran. And one of the Israeli embassy officials who knows all about AIPAC's role in helping plan the attack on Iran has been whisked out of the country and out of the reach of U.S. prosecutors, the Israeli daily Ha'aretz reports this morning.
The neo-cons in the Pentagon had long been arguing for an attack on Iran to take out its nuclear facilities that had the potential to be converted for development of nuclear weapons. Wolfie's man Doug Feith had been particularly assiduous in pressing the case for a "forward strategy" against Iran. Feith's views are madly extremist, and Jim Zogby collected them in an April profile of Feith that should scare the pants off of anyone rational. (Feith's been a major activist for years with the viciously anti-Arab crazies of the ZOA, the Zionist Organization of America).

When, for purely electoral reasons with the Iraq occupation going so disastrously, the White House decided against a direct attack by the U.S. on Iran, the neo-cons went to Plan B -- an attack on Iran by proxy, from Israel. The principal classified documents leaked to Israel through AIPAC -- the leaks that that began the investigation of the AIPAC spy ring, which has been going on now for over a year -- concerned Iran. They were leaked by Feith's deputy, Larry Franklin, also now under a five-count indictment for spying.

The plan for an Israeli attack on Iran has been long envisioned -- both in Washington and by Sharon's government -- but this attack is now in a highy advanced state of planning and could come as quickly as Sharon snaps his fingers to order it. Back on March 13, the London Times -- in a report that was largely ignored in the U.S. -- reported that: "The inner cabinet of Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister, gave 'initial authorisation' for an attack at a private meeting last month on his ranch in the Negev desert,"

The London Times went on to describe how "Israeli forces have used a mock-up of Iran’s Natanz uranium enrichment plant in the desert to practise destroying it. Their tactics include raids by Israel’s elite Shaldag (Kingfisher) commando unit and airstrikes by F-15 jets from 69 Squadron, using bunker-busting bombs to penetrate underground facilities.
twork of Israel Firsters will be pulled up by its roots, and you can expect the high-pitched screams to start shortly.



, Franklin was arrested by the FBI for the passing of classified documents to two AIPAC staffers, who were then to pass them to Israel. The documents in question concerned Iran.

One of the two newly-indicted AIPACers isn't just anybody. Steve Rosen, 63, is the man who built AIPAC into the $40 million dollar Capitol Hill powerhouse it is today. Buried in a Washington Post profile of AIPAC from May 19 is the skinny on Rosen as the power behind the scenes at AIPAC. Said the Post:

"For more than two decades, Rosen has been a mainstay of AIPAC and the architect of the group's ever-increasing clout.




Now, just what is AIPAC, you may well ask? AIPAC is the enforcer of the knee-jerk support for the Israeli government which characterizes the political and governing classes in this country, -- Israel is the real third rail of American politics: touch it with criticism, no matter how carefully couched, and you die. Both the Democratic and Republican parties fall all over themselves to kiss AIPAC's boots -- because AIPAC and its well-filled war-chest helps make sure they toe the line on Israel, and has been responsible for the defeat of a significant number of politicians over the years who dared to criticize Israeli policies. Earlier this year, AIPAC played a major role in destroying the candidacy of Tim Roemer for chairman of the DNC. There's an in-depth, critical profile of AIPAC by RightWeb's Michael Flynn that gives an in-depth look at AIPAC's arm-and-leg-breaking political style. And the newly indicted Rosen is The Man Behind the Curtain. Even though he formally resigned from AIPAC, the organization is paying his legal bills, and Rosen is still pulling the strings.

The reason for putting some daylight between Rosen and AIPAC is that the puissant political arm-twister is deathly afraid it will be forced to register as a foreign lobby, as the Jewish weeily The Forward reported earlier this year. Americans don't like the sight of their elected officials pocketing campaign cash from foreign governments, and AIPAC fears being forced to register formally as a lobbyist for Israel would thus diminish their clout on Capitol Hill. Bush won't make AIPAC register, and the spinless Democratic Congressional leadership won't lead the charge to make them do so either. But today's indictments of string-puller Rosen and his AIPAC colleague for spying on the U.S. gives progressives who want to see a peaceful, two-state, land-for-peace solution between Israel and Palestine a strategic opening to press loudly for AIPAC's formal shil registration as a shil for the government that built the Israeli Wall of Shame. It's a measure long past due.



One of the Israeli diplomats the feds want to question about the activities of the AIPAC spy ring has been quietly spirited out of the country, Ha'aretz reports this morning. "The Israeli diplomat in Washington who met several times with Franklin has been identified as Naor Gilon head of the political department at the Israeli Embassy in Washington and a specialist on proliferation issues.
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"Green" Israel

by Tia Monday, Apr. 03, 2006 at 6:23 AM

I lived in a developing nation a few years back and was surprised one day by Israeli visitors. They were offerring (not selling, mind you, offerring) de-salinization technology and solar energy technology to the tiny forgotten country I was living in.
You don't read about this kind of "good neighbor" service in Indymedia, or even in the mainstream media.

Israel has the technology to create green in a desert.

Whats more, they've been doing it for years:
(From Ziff, "The Rape of Palestine, 1938)

"Fully 75% of the area in Jewish hands morever has not known the plough for centuries. The northern colonies in Galilee were built on land rendered impossible for life since roman times because of marsh and endemic disease. Tel Aviv was erected on sand dunes which were considered without monetary value. The great granary, the valley of Jezreel, now nestling so trim and green in the shining sun, wa so deserted and pestilential when Jews bought it that it was said any bird trying to cross it would fall dead in its flight."
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Ah such feel-good glowing PR fluff pieces

by Hex Monday, Apr. 03, 2006 at 6:52 AM

- almost makes you forget Israel steals over 80 % of the available water, they use ten times more per person than Palestinians do for such excesses as swimming pools, the Jordan river is nearly dried up and is 20 % sewage while Israel refuses to do anything about it - except try to steal what water is left, by building the wall-of-shame around lakes, ponds and areas where the groundwater is still accessable and land still workable for crops in OCCUPIED LAND

almost..

hey - have anymore PR fluff pieces for AIPAC too ?


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Israelis made the desert bloom

by Becky Johnson Monday, Apr. 03, 2006 at 7:06 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

"But they did enter the 21st century with more trees - they used to have two, but now they have three."

BECKY: When the Zionists arrived in Palestine, they found deserts, swamps, and malaria. Through hard work, invention, and sheer will power, they transformed this wasteland into an agrarian powerhouse ---with no more water, soil, or weather than any of the 22 Arab countries.
(look at above aerial map of Israel showing how green it is compared to the Arab countries)

When Israel abandoned Gaza, they left behind greenhouses donated to the PA by rich American Jews.

The Palestinians proceeded to vandalize and steal parts from the greenhouses, sometimes with the help of the PA police force.

YET, this doesn't stop people from condemning the Israelis for even their successes.

26 synagogues were burned on Sept 11, 2005 in Gaza by the Palestinians. Where was the outcry of opposition from those who support religious freedom?

Hex? Sheepdog? Is buring 26 synagogues in one day okay by you????

Or not worthy of comment?
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Project Mockingbecky

by Sheepdog Monday, Apr. 03, 2006 at 8:17 AM

Dear Ms. BJ
The People of Palestine had an involved irrigation system and world renowned citrus produce. Before it was seized and or destroyed by your 20th century GENOCIDE.

But The People of Palestine didn't have the backing of Nazis to begin with like the Israelis did and then the huge army we gave them to keep these many groves of generation tended orchards.
Yer shit ( lies ) is (are) weak.
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"how green it is compared to the Arab countries"

by Hex Monday, Apr. 03, 2006 at 8:23 AM

God this is disgusting - of course it is - they stole all the water !

why don't you just plaster some more wallpaper showing the evidence of the crime

"hey look they stole all the water - see how green it is"

and not I will not be falling into your rhetorical tar pit today - the 'ol bait & switch

"well what about them !"

gee it this all 11 million of our tax dollars buys ?

high-priced finger pointing..
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green Israel

by Meyer London Thursday, Apr. 13, 2006 at 6:09 AM

I once read an interesting piece about a tour guide telling American visitors in the 1950's or early 1960's about how Israel had made the desert bloom, implyin that the previous, barbaric inhabitants had not known anything about agriculture but only rode around on camels shouting idiotic religious slogans. He pointed to some mature, healthy orange trees as proof of how well the Israelis had improved the seized Arab lands. An elderly woman in the American party stumped him by pointing out that the orange trees were too mature to have been planted after 1948.
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Pre-1948

by Not a Dhimmi No More! Thursday, Apr. 13, 2006 at 8:29 AM

Jewish agriculture in Pre-State Israel began alot earlier than the War of Independence in 1948!
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Jewish agriculture before the war

by Meyer London Thursday, Apr. 13, 2006 at 12:16 PM

Not on Arab land it seized in 1948, it didn't. Incidentally, destroying Arab fruit trees with bulldozers is still a favorite activity of our green zionists friends. Of course, that ruins the Arab farmers who own the trees - and that is the point of doing it.
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He's wrong.

by Meyer London Thursday, Apr. 13, 2006 at 1:01 PM

Zionists were buying land, so that gave them a right ot ethnically cleanse Palestine and set up their own nation? Well, Fresca Baby, Japanese corporations have bought up a lot of land in many US states. If they bought up a lot of land in your state and then decided to run you out and make the state a province of Japan, I guess you would not object, right? Especially if they justified it by saying that Americans are barbarians who went on a rampage in Iraq and can't be trusted?
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Is Israel "stealing" "Palestinian" water?

by Becky Johnson Friday, Apr. 14, 2006 at 5:54 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

REPLY TO HEX: Since you have acknowledged that Israel is greener than the Arab countries, even though they don't have any more water than they do, you have resorted to the old canard that Israel is "stealing" "Palestinian" water.

I guess thats what you are left with when you compare Israeli agriculture with the agriculture of all the Arab countries. Make another false accusation that blames the Jews. I've posted a short article by Alex Safian of CAMERA that gives some actual data, rather than your unsupported charge of theft. Read on and learn:


Media coverage of complex and explosive water issues regularly neglects the facts.

By Alex Safian, Camera Media Report, Winter 2000 In recent years, press accounts have charged Israel with unfairly and illegally draining water from "Palestinian aquifers," enabling Israelis to enjoy green lawns, and full swimming pools, while leaving Palestinians with barely enough to drink. Thus, in the summer of 1998, the New York Times reported that for Palestinians:
…most taps ran dry a month ago… That would have spelled misery anywhere, but what has made it worse on the West Bank is that Palestinians cannot help but notice that they are the only ones so parched. There is no sign of a water shortage in the Jewish settlements just outside Hebron. There, and in Israel as a whole, residents still water lawns and wash their cars. (Douglas Jehl, 15 August 1998).
More recently, in a July 27, 1999 story, National Public Radio reported that Israel is:
Violating international law… [by] helping itself to most of the water that runs beneath Palestinian lands… the average Israeli consumes about six times more water than the average Palestinian… Israeli officials say that their policy is to ensure Israelis get sufficient water to live properly and develop economically. It's unfortunate, they say, if there's not enough water left over for the Palestinians.
Other news outlets, such as the BBC and the AP, have reported similarly.

But the facts tell a different story, Israel has never "helped itself" to water "beneath Palestinian lands." Israel obtains roughly 30 percent of its water from the Sea of Galilee and the Coastal aquifer, both of which are entirely within Israel's pre-1967 borders. Another 30 percent comes from the Western and Northeastern Aquifers of the Mountain Aquifer system. These aquifers straddle the Green Line separating Israel from the West Bank, but most of the stored water is under pre-1967 Israel, making it easily accessible only in Israel.

Thus, even in the 1950s Israel used 93 percent of the Western Aquifer's water, and 82 percent of the Northeastern Aquifer's water. Today, Israel's share of these aquifers has declined to 83 percent and 80 percent, respectively. That is, under Israeli administration the Palestinian share of these aquifers has actually increased.

In addition, over 40 MCM (million cubic meters) of water per year from sources within Israel is piped over the Green Line for Palestinian use in the West Bank. Ramallah, for example, receives over 5 MCM annually from Israeli sources. Israel sends another 4 MCM annually over its border for Palestinian use in the Gaza Strip. Thus, it is the Palestinians who are using Israeli water.

And not just the Palestinians. Despite its own meager supply, Israel annually provides 600,000 CM of water to ten otherwise dry villages in South Lebanon, and, as a favor to the late King Hussein, more than 55 MCM annually to Jordan. Perhaps no other country, facing the severe shortages that Israel does, has shared so much water with so many of its neighbors.
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"Israel" had no right to steal Arab lnd

by Meyer London Friday, Apr. 14, 2006 at 6:07 AM

The land in question was part of the Turkish Empire (a legal entity, whatever one might think of it) until Britain seized it during World War I and then was given authority over it as a League of Nations Mandate. The Arabs were legal inhabitants of the area both when it was under Turkish rule and when it was under British rule. While it is true that Britain had promised the Jews a "homeland", it had also made contradictory promises to the Arabs to gain their alliance in the struggle against Turkey, which was allied with Germany and Austria-Hungary during the First World War. In any event, the British had no authority under international law or under the League on Nations mandate to give land already inhabited by Palestinian Arabs to (mostly) white European Jews in order to set up a state. It shows the colonialist mentality of the zionists that some of them were willing to set up a state in Uganda if the bid to grab Palestine failed.
Palestinians have their own culture which, while sharing the general attributes of Arab culture found all over the Middle East and North Africa, has its individual attributes in such areas as language, accent, customs and etiquette, habits of daily life, music and others. They have also inhabited the same territory for thousands of years and are clearly a nation by any definition of the term. Palestine was stolen from them.
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There was no "theft" of "Arab" land

by Becky Johnson Friday, Apr. 14, 2006 at 6:37 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

MEYER LONDON WRITES: "The land in question was part of the Turkish Empire (a legal entity, whatever one might think of it) until Britain seized it during World War I..."

BECKY: Since Turkey sided with Germany in WWI, they were defeated. That is when the allies took over the conquered lands.
While you might not like how this transfer of ownership occurred, it has happened thousands of times in history, including the European colonists in the US conquering Indian territories.

You say the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire was legal. How do you think THEY got the land 400 years earlier? By conquest!

So the land went from Turkish to British to UN to Israel. When did it become "Arab" land???

Israel is unique in that its existence came from a UN resolution and a vote by the UN General Assembly, and not from conquest.

MEYER LONDON WRITES: "The Arabs were legal inhabitants of the area both when it was under Turkish rule and when it was under British rule. "

BECKY: True. That is why when Israel was established, they made provisions for all Arabs residing in the new nation to become citizens automatically. This is exactly what happened to any Arab who stayed put.

There is no illegality here. The land NOW belongs to Israel. However, the status of the territories ownership is still in dispute.
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Project Mockingbecky

by Sheepdog Friday, Apr. 14, 2006 at 6:42 AM

-"Coastal aquifer, both of which are entirely within Israel's pre-1967 borders"-
If you had any academic knowledge in Geology you would know that aquifers run well beyond given borders along strata which contain them. Pumping the level of these subterranean water systems effect the level of all the wells which use it.
So if the extraction exceeds recharging cycles through rain or snowfall, the level drops and small manually dug well systems dry up.
This is the result of giving water which should be available to the native Palestinian farmers.
Another way the farmers of Palestine are being crushed even without the bulldozing of orchards.
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no theft of Arab land

by Meyer London Friday, Apr. 14, 2006 at 11:58 AM

The Arabs were legal inhabitants of an area universally referred to as Palestine. Most of them were driven from their homes or murdered during the ethnic cleansing carried out by the Stern Gang, the Irgun, and the so-called regular Israeli army. They were not allowed to return. That is land theft, and try as you might to twist the facts, ignore unpleasant events, and disguise reality, it remains land theft. In fact, it is still going on with illegal settlements and a wall built largely on Palestinian Arabs' land.
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Fresca incognito

by Meyer London Saturday, Apr. 15, 2006 at 7:48 AM

What's the matter, Mr. Cheetos - are they removing your racist postings and are you trying to get back on by using other posters' names? At least you could come up with something original , like Adolf, Benito, or Francisco - in honor of your favorite political leaders fo the 1940's.
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62% left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier

by Becky Johnson Monday, Apr. 17, 2006 at 7:50 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

MEYER LONDON WRITES: "Most of them were driven from their homes or murdered during the ethnic cleansing carried out by the Stern Gang, the Irgun, and the so-called regular Israeli army."

BECKY: False! False! False!

Heres proof to the contrary--quotes from the media of 1948 -1949:


"Every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe."
- Haifa District HQ of the British Police, April 26, 1948, (quoted in Battleground by Samuel Katz).

"The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city.... By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa."
- Time Magazine, May 3, 1948, page 25

"The Arab civilians panicked and fled ignominiously. Villages were frequently abandoned before they were threatened by the progress of war."
- General John Glubb "Pasha," The London Daily Mail, August 12, 1948

The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the act of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem."
– Emile Ghoury, secretary of the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, in an interview with the Beirut Telegraph 9/6/1948. (same in London Telegraph, 8.48)

The most potent factor [in the flight of Palestinians] was the announcements made over the air by the Arab-Palestinian Higher Executive, urging all Haifa Arabs to quit... It was clearly intimated that Arabs who remained in Haifa would be regarded as renegades." London Economist (Oct. 2, 1948)

"[The Arabs of Haifa] fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities guaranteed their safety and rights as citizens of Israel."
- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, New York Herald Tribune, June 30, 1949

“The military and civil (Israeli) authorities expressed their profound regret at this grave decision (taken by the Arab military delegates of Haifa and the Acting Chair of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee to evacuate Haifa despite the Israeli offer of a truce). The Jewish mayor of Haifa made a passionate appeal to the delegation (of Arab military leaders) to reconsider its decision”. Memorandum of the Arab National Committee of Haifa, 1950, to the governments of the Arab League, quoted in J. B. Schechtman, The Refugees in the World, NY 1963, pp. 192f.


"The Arab states which had encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies, have failed to keep their promise to help these refugees." – The Jordanian daily newspaper Falastin, Feb. 19, 1949.

"The Secretary General of the Arab League Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade...Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes, and property to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of invading Arab armies mow them down."
---Al Hoda (a New York-based Lebanese daily) June 8, 1951

"We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down."
- Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said, Sir Am Nakbah (The Secret Behind the Disaster) by Nimr el-Hawari, Nazareth, 1952

SEE: THE TRUTH ABOUT THE ARAB REFUGEES IN 1948 by David Meir-Levi at:
http://santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display/10895/index.php

As for your "drive the Palestinians into the sea" you are lifting that phrase from:

Prior to the 1948 war against Israel, the Iraqi Prime Minister said all the Arabs would need would be "a few brooms" to drive the Jews into the sea. All they were waiting for was the British and said, "once we get the green light from the British we can easily throw out the Jews." [Quote from Sir Geoffrey Furlonge, "Palestine Is My Country: The Story of Musa Alami (Praeger Press, 1969)]
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170,000 were Returned

by Becky Johnson Monday, Apr. 17, 2006 at 7:55 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

Between 1949 and 1994, the State of Israel allowed 170,000 Palestinians who had fled in 1948 to return to Israel and become Israeli citizens.

The requirement was that they apply to re-enter Israel, show ID, and some proof of residency such as a birth certificate, a deed to a house, or some other such proof. After passing a security check, they re-entered Israel.

So much for Meyer London's expertise. He just makes it up as he goes, apparently.
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The geening of Israel

by Tia Monday, Apr. 17, 2006 at 8:23 AM

From The Rape of Palestine / Ziff 1938

"We should expect to find an exodus of Arabs from lands where Jews are settled. But exactly the opposite is true: it is precisely in the vicinity of those Jewish villages that Arab development is most marked. Arab Haifa, profiting from the Jewish boom grew from 1922 to 1936 by 130%, Jaffa by 80% and Jerusalem by 55%...In the vicinity of the Jewish villages Arab workers earn twice the wage paid in other parts of Palestine.

Once the poorest , sorriest population in this whole section of poverty stricken masses, the Arabs of Palestine are now the richest per capita of their race"

"Fully 75% of the area in Jewish hands morever has not known the plough for centuries. The northern colonies in Galilee were built on land rendered impossible for life since roman times because of marsh and endemic disease. Tel Aviv was erected on sand dunes which were considered without monetary value. The great granary, the valley of Jezreel, now nestling so trim and green in the shining sun, wa sso deserted and pestilential when Jews bought it that it was said any bird trying to cross it would fall dead in its flight."

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Murdered by a 16 year old

by hamas-voice of peace Wednesday, Apr. 19, 2006 at 2:19 PM



Nine people were murdered in Tel Aviv Monday and more than 60 were wounded after a 16 year old hkiller detonated himself at the city's old central bus station.

By Monday night, 36 of those injured in the attack remained in hospitals in the Tel Aviv area. One of those wounded is in critical condition, another one is in very serious condition, eight are in serious condition, 15 sustained moderate wounds, and 11 were said to be suffering from light injuries.

Authorities released the names of these seven blast victims for publication.

David Shaulov, 29, from Holon
Philip Balhasan, 45, from Ashdod
Victor Erez, 60, from Givataim
Binyamin Chafuta, 47, from Lod
Lily Yunes, 42, from Oranit
Rosalia Basnia, 48, a Romanian foreign worker
Bodha Piroshka, 50, a Romanian foreign worker
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Arabs allowed back

by Meyer London Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 7:22 AM

The Israelis allowed a few Arabs back in because they needed them as low-pay laborers - in other words, for the same reason the US allows some Mexican peasants into the US legally. What about the majority? Why were they not allowed to return to their homes and belongings or even given compensation for them by the regime that stole them?
As for the flight of the Arabs being foolish or cowardly, it was neither. Zionists were brutally murdering people, with the intent of setting off a panic and flight - not even modern zionist historians in Israel deny that anymore - why deny the obvious? If the Stern Gang was running wild through my neighborhood, murdering and plundering at will and there was no force strong enough to stop them, you can bet that I would get the hell out of there as fast as I could. That would hardly give the Stern Gang a right to my home and property, or the right to bar me from where I have lived for decades.
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sorry for the "cut n paste"

by pressed for time Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 7:38 AM

Quotes confirming that Arab leaders told Arabs to flee:


1. "The first group of our fifth column consist of those who abandon their homes...At the first sign of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle" -- Ash-Sha'ab, Jaffa, 1.30.48

2. "(the fleeing villagers)...are bringing down disgrace on us all... by abandoning their villages" -- As-Sarih, Jaffa, 3.30.48

3. "Every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe." -- Haifa District HQ of the British Police, April 26, 1948, (quoted in Battleground by Samuel Katz).


4. "The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city.... By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa." -- Time Magazine, May 3, 1948, page 25


5. "The Arab streets (of Palestine) are curiously deserted (because)...following the poor example of the moneyed class, there has been an exodus from Jerusalem, but not to the same extent as from Jaffa and Haifa". -- London Times, 5.5.48


6. "The Arab civilians panicked and fled ignominiously. Villages were frequently abandoned before they were threatened by the progress of war." -- General John Glubb "Pasha," The London Daily Mail, August 12, 1948


7. "The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the act of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem." - Emile Ghoury, secretary of the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, in an interview with the Beirut Telegraph 9/6/1948. (same appeared in The London Telegraph, 8.48)

8. The most potent factor [in the flight of Palestinians] was the announcements made over the air by the Arab-Palestinian Higher Executive, urging all Haifa Arabs to quit... It was clearly intimated that Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades."

-- London Economist Oct. 2, 1948)

9. "It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees' flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa, and Jerusalem". -- Near East Arabic Broadcasting Station, Cyprus, 4.3.49


10. "[The Arabs of Haifa] fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities guaranteed their safety and rights as citizens of Israel." -- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, New York Herald Tribune, June 30, 1949

11. "The military and civil (Israeli) authorities expressed their profound regret at this grave decision (taken by the Arab military delegates of Haifa and the Acting Chair of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee to evacuate Haifa despite the Israeli offer of a truce). The Jewish mayor of Haifa made a passionate appeal to the delegation (of Arab military leaders) to reconsider its decision".

-- Memorandum of the Arab National Committee of Haifa, 1950, to the governments of the Arab League, quoted in J. B. Schechtman, The Refugees in the World, NY 1963, pp. 192f.


12. Sir John Troutbeck, British Middle East Office in Cairo, noted in cables to superiors (1948-49) that the refugees (in Gaza) have no bitterness against Jews, but harbor intense hatred toward Egyptians: " They say 'we know who our enemies are (referring to the Egyptians)', declaring that their Arab brethren persuaded them unnecessarily to leave their homes...I even heard it said that many of the refugees would give a welcome to the Israelis if they were to come in and take the district over".

13. "The Arab states which had encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies, have failed to keep their promise to help these refugees." - The Jordanian daily newspaper Falastin, Feb. 19, 1949.


14. "The Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade...Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes, and property to stay temporarily In neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of invading Arab armies mow them down." --Al Hoda (a New York-based Lebanese daily) June 8, 1951.


15. "Who brought the Palestinians to Lebanon as refugees, suffering now from the malign attitude of newspapers and communal leaders, who have neither honor nor conscience? Who brought them over in dire straits and penniless, after they lost their honor? The Arab states, and Lebanon amongst them, did it." -- The Beirut Muslim weekly Kul-Shay, Aug. 19, 1951.

16. "We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down."

-- Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said, quoted in "Sir An-Nakbah" (The Secret Behind the Disaster) by Nimr el-Hawari, Nazareth, 1952

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Yo Meyer London

by autoblocked @Indybay Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 8:01 AM

"The Israelis allowed a few Arabs back in because they needed them as low-pay laborers - in other words, for the same reason the US allows some Mexican peasants into the US legally.

This is ridiculous and unlikely. Where's your fucking proof, Einstein? That would seem plausible to the gullible and uninformed, but furnishing proof is necessary if this allegation is to be taken seriously. So either provide it or hold your piece.

"What about the majority? Why were they not allowed to return to their homes and belongings or even given compensation for them by the regime that stole them?"

Firstly, many if not most of that "majority" were squatters who has illegally (as per the British Mandate Rule) entered the land from neighboring Arab countries. We're talking at least tens of thousands. So these fellas had no right to return anyway.
Secondly, at a certain point along the way, some of those who deserved to return lost interest in doing so. Thirdly, many refugees were compensated in the early 1950's.

"As for the flight of the Arabs being foolish or cowardly, it was neither. Zionists were brutally murdering people, with the intent of setting off a panic and flight - not even modern zionist historians in Israel deny that anymore - why deny the obvious?"

You're painting a one-sided picture and that won't fly. As ultra leftist historian Benny Morris has shown in his book published 2 years ago (and top notch military historian Uri Milstein seems to concur), less than 1000 Arabs were massacred or murdered during the 1948-1949 independence war, yet many Arabs DID leave the land way before the outbreak of warfare at the urging of the Arab High Command that received orders from neighboring countries' governments, and many other Arabs fled in panic as war was raging on. What's your interest in denying these facts?
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You've also overlooked this:

by autoblocked @Indybay Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 8:30 AM

By hatist anti-Zionist standards, official Israel could have used the many non-Ashkenazi Jews that were immigrating to the country that time for all types of low-wage labor they needed. So forgive me for dismissing you as someone who hasn't done his homework.


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wrong

by Meyer London Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 9:24 AM

Morris is hardly ultra-left; in fact he holds that it may be necessary to expel the Arabs from Israeli-held territory in the future. But he is honest enough to state that the Israelis carried out a deliberate ethnic cleansing policy in 1948. Of course, I'm sure that if some rampaging gang murdered a few hundred people in the area where you live you would not think of fleeing, with the expectation of returning when the murderers/vandals were driven out.
The fact that non-European Jews were and are used for so-called menial labor in Israel in no way cancels out the fact that Arabs are also used for this purpose - expecially Arabs familiar with agricultural conditions and practices in Palestine. It is rather similar to the way the United States uses both African Americans and Mexicans to do unpleasant and badly paid work. Wake up - Israel is a racist settler state, just like its protector and financer - the USA.
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Not everything is economic

by Schtarker Yid Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 9:50 AM

Not everything is economic. Sometimes that tired old Marxist analysis just doesn't make any sense. Exploitation of labor doesn't appear to have motivated anyone in this situaion.
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"wrong"?

by autoblocked @Indybay Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 9:51 AM

You're the one who's got most of his facts wrong. It's rather amusing, too. Incidentally, I wonder how many of your erroneous preconceptions you'll revert to once folks like me and Johnson are away from this site for prolonged periods.

I'll accept the correction that Morris made an about-face once your beloved intifada was unleased. You seem to know a few things about this guy, presumably from the same Ha'aretz interview I've read too.

I'm not sure about the ethnic cleansing policy, but even so the Israelis did a sloppy job of it by uprooting mainly the residents of Lydda and Ramle, what with initiating already in 1949 a process whereby the aforementioned 170,000 refugees were allowed to return.

"The fact that non-European Jews were and are used for so-called menial labor in Israel in no way cancels out the fact that Arabs are also used for this purpose"

But it did blow your allegation out of the water.

Israel is no more racist than Germany or other states are racist for giving one ethnic group some privileges over others.
As for the the US, if you're residing there, why don't you emigrate? It's not liker you've got solme religious bond to it, right?
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no worse

by Meyer London Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 11:04 AM

Israel's historic treatment of people with fewer rights than the master ethnic group is no worse than Germany's? I'll accept that, but it doesn't seem much to boast of; it is rather like saying that the Likud is no worse than the KKK. Or that Sharon and Begin were no worse than Stonewall Jackson and Jeff Davis. By the way, what happened to the historic friendship and partnership with South Africa now that the Apartheid regime is no longer in charge?
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Rather than pontificate

by Not a Dhimmi no more! Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 11:16 AM

Rather than pontificate about something that you clearly are not well informed about, why not try reading? Start with William Ziff's 1938 "Rape of Palestine". Then read up on what it means to be a dhimmi in a Moslem land. After that, lets re-discuss racism.
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Setting the record straight

by heard it before Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 11:27 AM

I should have been more rigorous and claimed that Israel is no more racist than many democratic states, including Germany, that prefer one ethnic group to others. Hope this brings more clarity to the issue and voids your need for manufacturing analogies.

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"by heard it before Thursday, Apr. 20, 2006 at 2:27 PM"

by just wondering Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 1:27 PM

You mean *this* heard it before?

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/1698659.php

(snip)

heard it before

(snip)

* * * * *

See also:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/04/154020_comment.php#154305
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no, like this

by Schtarker Yid Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 1:32 PM

no, like no,this;

http://www.indybay.org/news/hidden.php?id=1816568#1816637
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"Schtarker Yid"

by A racist is a racist is a racist Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 4:21 PM

To report on the struggle of the Palestinian people and also publish Zionist propaganda is like reporting on the Civil Rights Movement while giving equal time to the KKK. It's bad journalism and worse politics.

A racist is a racist is a racist. Throw them all out. Indymedia belongs to anti-racists, not to the Zionists, not to the Nazis, not to the Chetniks, not to the Interahamwe, not to *any* of the KKKs of this world. Indymedia can never be taken seriously as a news source, nor is any IMCista credible as an activist, as long as racist propaganda appears on Indymedia bandwidth.

Editors, please. It's time to take out the trash.
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What kind of logic is this?

by fools paradise Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 4:36 PM

"To report on the struggle of the Palestinian people and also publish Zionist propaganda is like reporting on the Civil Rights Movement while giving equal time to the KKK. It's bad journalism and worse politics."

Yes. Lets just report the good news. Lets not mention the KKK- lets let the whole world think life is sunshine and lollipops and rainbows. Just good news. Just happy thoughts. Why burden the public with things that might be upsetting? Why challenge them with htings that might be difficult? Yes. Lets just lull them to slumber with 178 channels of cable TV.
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thread is getting out of reach

by Sheepdog Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 5:11 PM

178 channels? You watch television? There's your problem right there.
Kill your TV.
Anyway, we can let the zionazi weasels play on this thread 'cause after they have finished blueking it, no one else would want to.
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"Lets just report the good news."

by bunk logic Friday, Apr. 21, 2006 at 7:56 PM

That's a http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/straw.php">straw man.

See:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/04/154166_comment.php#154368
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More off topic bullying from "nessie"

by autoblocked @Indybay Saturday, Apr. 22, 2006 at 2:35 AM

The anti-Jewish racist Lee Doyle aka nessie has just left here more of his noxious droppings hawking his antisemitically motivated censorship wishes.

To obtain more insight into his lunacy, read the following quote of something he wrote:

"no trace of Israel will remain"
by hmmmmm Monday, Oct. 24, 2005 at 3:35 PM

And this would be bad why?

http://www.indybay.org/news/hidden.php?id=1776597#1777328


In light of his insolence, is it any wonder his Palinazi comrade Sheepdog found an excuse to blather?

Editors, please dispose of the presence of "nessie". Keep in mind he has advocated several times the destruction of Israel, notwithstanding that millions of non-Jews would die in the process.
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"Nessie"

by Lord Locksley Saturday, Apr. 22, 2006 at 11:03 AM

I think "Nessie" is rather like the unicorn...a mythical beast...either a composite group identiy or simply a convenient vehicle for disinformation
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the problem with Islam

by Steven Emerson Monday, Apr. 24, 2006 at 5:41 PM

Islamists’ message to Israel at New York City rally: "The mushroom cloud is on its way!"
by Steven Emerson Sunday, Apr. 23, 2006 at 9:16 AM

Islamists’ message to Israel at New York City rally: "The mushroom cloud is on its way!"
By Steven Emerson
http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006/04/islamists_message_to_israel_at_1.php

Investigative Project on Terrorism (IPT) Newswire - April 21, 2006 : The Queens-based Islamic Thinkers Society (ITS) held a rally yesterday outside of the Israeli Consulate in Manhattan. Members of the Islamic Thinkers Society are easily identified by their Khilafah flags and provocative signs as well as rhetoric against homosexuals, Jews, Christians, Danes and others, depending on the hot button issue at the moment. Yesterday's rally was held in response to Monday’s Tel Aviv bombing that killed 9 and injured scores. While carrying signs including “Islam will Dominate” with a picture of an Islamic flag over the White House, the small but loud group of men chanted threatening slogans (video of the rally will be posted on the Counterterrorism Blog soon):

Excerpts:
Leader (in Arabic): With our blood and our lives we will liberate al Aqsa!
[The rest also respond in Arabic:] With our blood and our lives we will liberate al Aqsa!
Israeli Zionists What do you say? The real Holocaust is on its way
Takbeer!
Response: Allahu Akbar!
Takbeer!
Response: Allahu Akbar!

Israeli Zionists, What do you say?
How many women have you raped today?
Israeli Zionists, What do you say?
How many children have you killed today?

Zionists, Zionists You will pay! The Wrath of Allah is on its way!
Israeli Zionists You shall pay! The Wrath of Allah is on its way!
The mushroom cloud is on its way! The real Holocaust is on its way!

We are not your average Muslims, We are the Muslims of Was al Sunnah

We will not accept the United Nations, they are the criminals themselves
They get paid by the Israeli and the US government to do their job.
We don’t recognize United Nations as a body
We only recognize Allah

Israel won’t last long… Indeed, Allah will repeat the Holocaust right on the soil of Israel
Takbeer!
Response: Allahu Akbar!

* * *
No wonder they call you sons of apes and pigs because that’s what you are.

We know many government services are watching us
Such as the FBI…CIA…Mossad, Homeland Security…
We know we are getting on their nerves
And so are you….
So we say the hell with you!
May the FBI burn in Hell
CIA burn in Hell
Mossad burn in Hell
Homeland Security burn in hell!!

Islam will dominate the world
Islam is the only solution
Islam will dominate the world
Islam is the only solution
Takbeer!
La ilaha il Allah, Muhammad-ur Rasool Allah

* * *
Another mushroom cloud, right in the midst of Israel!
Takbeer!! Allahu Akbar!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Islamic Thinkers Society is an offshoot, at least ideologically, of London’s Al-Muhajiroun, a group that celebrated the 9/11 attacks, referring to the hijackers as "the Magnificent 19," and posting a burning picture of the Capitol on its website.
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"a mythical beast"

by Wanda Tuesday, Apr. 25, 2006 at 12:48 PM

He doesn't even exist:

http://pittsburgh.indymedia.org/news/2005/04/18251_comment.php#18565
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Call to Genocide

by Schtarker Yid Tuesday, Apr. 25, 2006 at 2:10 PM

The above is clearly a call to genocide and nuclear war. Any thoughts?
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Hey, "autoblocked"

by I've got instructions! Tuesday, Apr. 25, 2006 at 2:45 PM

I've got instructions on changing your IP. Interested?
I can convey the info publically, or perhaps Bill wouldn't mind being the conduit, since he did post his address here.
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Any thoughts?

by not our fight Tuesday, Apr. 25, 2006 at 2:59 PM

A million Israeli lives are not worth one American fingernail.
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Is that you, Schtarker?

by autoblocked @Indybay Tuesday, Apr. 25, 2006 at 3:21 PM

Yes, very much interested. Please. If you can convey it in the "Zionist" language (in whichever font you choose), even better. That's because my operating system is in that language.

I've tried in vain to get the other dialer I've got to connect to the 'net. I also couldn't follow Schtarker's lead about the router.
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Its a war out there

by good luck Tuesday, Apr. 25, 2006 at 4:51 PM

1. on the start menu, go to Control Panel

2. double click Network and Internet Connections

3. click only once your internet connection (it may say something like local area connection or dialup or something. On the left side of the window there's a blue area with the menus "network tasks," "other places," and "details." Make sure everything is showing under details (you may have to click the little double arrow next to the word "details" to show it. Write down the IP address that is shown under details.

4. Right click the connection that you clicked in the last step. Click Properties in the menu that appears when you right clicked the connection

5. In the window that pops up (connection properties), it says towards the top, "this connection uses the following items:" and underneath there is a list with a scroll bar (it should have things to click on like "client for microsoft networks," "file and printer sharing for microsoft networks," etc). Scroll down to "Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)" and click it one time.

6. Underneath the list described in the last step (sorry if my descriptions are terrible), there are three buttons, one of which is "Properties." Click this.

7. A window pops up titled "Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) Properties." You probably alread have "Obtain an IP address automatically" selected. Instead select "Use the following IP address:"

8. In the "IP Address" bar, type in the IP address that you wrote down earlier, but change the last digit. If the number is even, I generally go to the next even number, same for odd, just because I really don't know anything about how IP addresses work and I figure it'll be safe.

9. On the bottom of the window press "OK"

10. On the window before press "OK"
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Thanks!

by autoblocked @Indybay Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 3:26 AM

You're awesome!

However, alas to me, my ISP charges top sheqel for allowing clients to insert their own IP addresses at whim, so I can't connect to the 'net unless my TCP/IP is set to "Obtain an IP address automatically". So autoblocked I remain for the interim.

Much thanks for coming to my assistance.
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Libraries?

by Internet cafes? Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 3:40 AM

The possibilities are endless
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Today is Yom Hashoah

by Tia Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 5:00 AM

As we pray for the protection and security of Israel, we moun the sacrifices that were necessary to ensure her survival.
7,000 killed in the War for Independence
1,000 killed in the 1956 Sinai campaign
1,000 killed in the 6 day war
3,000 killed in the Yom Kippur war
1,000 killed in hthe current intifada.

Yet all the wars for our freedom and self determination have still cost us less lives than a week at Auschwitz.

Never again!


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Yom Hashoah V'haGevura (Holocaust & Heroism Remembrance Day)

by autoblocked @Indybay Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 5:21 AM

I stood still during the siren at 10:00 AM.

Never again? We can't know yet for sure... The real question is wheather Olmert or GWBush will be capable of summoning enough courage to destroy Iran's nuclear capabilities prior to their attaning warheads. Otherwise, they'll hold the West at ransom. Another issue is al-Qaida's alleged nuclear capability. If WMD is to be believed, they're acquiring nukes as we speak.

I'm mightily disappointed in the Israeli leadership. Cowardice seems to be the order of the day within its ranks.
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"Otherwise, they'll hold the West at ransom"

by projection Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 5:49 AM

Israel's nukes hold the world economy hostage. If they don't get their way, they can destroy in a minute two thirds of humanity's energy supply.

It was nuclear blackmail, i.e., the so called "Samson Option," that enambled Israel to convince America to resupply them during the '73 war.
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"nessie" the lying troll

by autoblocked @Indybay Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 5:55 AM

Israel's nukes hold nobody and nothing hostage. They only exist for deterrent and defenseve Doomsday purposes.

Israel did nothing of the kind the lying racist "nessie" is charging it did in 1973. He's perfectly aware he's brazenly lying.

Rabid anti-Zionists have to lie because there is no honest defense for genocide of Jews.
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"Doomsday purposes"

by that's what I said Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 6:19 AM

He's talking about the "Samson Option"

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Shalom, chaver

by Tia Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 6:47 AM

Yom Hashoah V'haGevura (Holocaust & Heroism Remembrance Day)
by autoblocked @Indybay Tuesday, Apr. 25, 2006 at 8:21 AM

I stood still during the siren at 10:00 AM.

I was hoping to be there by now. Looks like summer, instead. In time for Roger Waters in the chick pea field.

Never again? We can't know yet for sure... The real question is wheather Olmert or GWBush will be capable of summoning enough courage to destroy Iran's nuclear capabilities prior to their attaning warheads.

My hope is that is that many of the technicians working on the project are actually Israeli agents, and that it is being sabotaged internally as we speak. Thats a lot to hope for. I don't think a diplomatic solution is going to happen either. Apparently Iran is stashing materials in Syria- in anticipation of a US strike.
At this point, Bush is very unpopular in America- its hard to anticipate what wil happen, or what the consequences will be for Israel.

I'm mightily disappointed in the Israeli leadership. Cowardice seems to be the order of the day within its ranks.

They are caving to world opinion.
What the Indymedia folks don't seem to realize that when Iran threatens Israel with nukes, they are also effectively threatening the Palestinians with elimination- the region is so small. It reminds me of the King Solomon story with the baby. Iran doesn't care about the Palestinians- they would happily sacrifice them if it means destroying Israel.

Nessie and his minions don't understand that all "we" want is to be left alone in peace.
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No Menahem Begin anymore...

by autoblocked @Indybay Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 7:30 AM

He would have known what to do and told the Condi Rices of the word where to go.

"I was hoping to be there by now. Looks like summer, instead. In time for Roger Waters in the chick pea field. "

Hmmmm... hope the story about uprooting the crops wasn't grounded in reality. Compensation notwithstanding, no one should have to endure such an ordeal just so he'll perform in Israel, unless the deed holder/s pushed this idea to begin with.

"My hope is that is that many of the technicians working on the project are actually Israeli agents, and that it is being sabotaged internally as we speak. Thats a lot to hope for."

So cute of you to think so...

" I don't think a diplomatic solution is going to happen either. "

Good!!! I'm tired of the blind Shimon Peresite and Beilinite optimists that addict themselves to groundless optimism and delusions of safety and peace.

"Apparently Iran is stashing materials in Syria- in anticipation of a US strike. "

Very plausable with me.

"At this point, Bush is very unpopular in America- its hard to anticipate what wil happen, or what the consequences will be for Israel. "

Bush is a moron, almost as much as Clinton. Either that or he has deliberately been performing negligently since the midst of the Afghanistan campaign to pave the way to the imposition of the neo-con agenda on the entire world -- think "Codex"... think "Rockefeller"... think "CAFTA"...see how he's been encouraging illegal immigration and been lax on gaurding the border with Mexico... since last year my suspicions have been mounting.

"Nessie and his minions don't understand that all "we" want is to be left alone in peace. "

Expect him to pounce on your assertion as a pretext to hound you with "bunk logic" accusations.
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response

by Tia Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 8:19 AM

Hmmmm... hope the story about uprooting the crops wasn't grounded in reality. ..

I hadn't heard about that. Let 's hope there isn't a falafel shortage in time for my arrival. Cheap vegetarian staple....

"My hope is that is that many of the technicians working on the project are actually Israeli agents, and that it is being sabotaged internally as we speak. Thats a lot to hope for."

So cute of you to think so...

There might be a few more Eli Cohens floating around. I hope.... It does seem that recent generations are much less self reliant than in the past, though. Yet the stakes are just as high.

Expect him to pounce on your assertion as a pretext to hound you with "bunk logic" accusations.

I expect him to pounce on me no matter what I do. If I get knocked down, I get up again. Not a big deal.
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Zionism = theft

by death to the Zionist entity Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 2:36 PM

Zionism = theft...
palestine47.jpg, image/jpeg, 362x565

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Yawn

by autoblocked @Indybay Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 3:31 PM

You know, "nessie" has spammed that map a zillion times. What he fails to elucidate is the fact that nearly all the "publicly and Palestinian owned land" was controlled by the British Mandate government. Even more damning to his mendacious position, the Arabs owned even less land than the Jews at the time.

nessiesque anti-Zionism = a cornucopia of lies. Death to "nessie".
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Typical Zionist ploy

by heard it before Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 6:06 PM

>What he fails to elucidate is the fact that nearly all the "publicly and Palestinian owned land" was controlled by the British Mandate government

So was the Jewish owned land, what little there was of it. Now all Palestine is under Zionist conteol. Even Gaza, which they claim to have abandoned, is shelled at will, and sealed off from the world like the vast prison camp that it is.
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the rockets

by red glare Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 6:13 PM

Gaza wasn't shelled until the Kassam missiles started flying. There are consequences to your actions. The Gazans will need to learn that. No intifada- no shelling.
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The Kassam missiles

by death to the Zionist entity Wednesday, Apr. 26, 2006 at 7:04 PM

didn't start flying until long after the Zionists stole Palestine from the people who were living there when they arrived. They are defending themselves against a colonialist invader, as well they should, by any means necessary. Oppressors have no rights which the oppressed are bound to honor. If the invaders don't like being treated like invaders, they can go back to Russia and America. Jews who were born in Palestine, and are willing to live as equals with the other Palestinians, have a right to remain there, and to live in peace, unmolested by their neighbors. But they do *not* have the right to rule the place, just because they are Jews.
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death threats from zionazis

by Sheepdog Thursday, Apr. 27, 2006 at 2:52 AM

As if one could expect anything else.
Lies and threats from zionazis. Time to cut off their aid.
Time to banish them from the wire.
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"Death to 'nessie'."

by heard it before Thursday, Apr. 27, 2006 at 5:15 AM

Easier said than done. But anyone who wants to try is welcome to the consequences.
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Palinazi alert

by autoblocked @Indybay Thursday, Apr. 27, 2006 at 7:37 AM

"As if one could expect anything else. "

Believe whatever helps you keep on typing and rambling throughout the day.

"Lies and threats from zionazis. Time to cut off their aid. Time to banish them from the wire."

Palinazis are far more prolific liars and sources of various types of violence. I'd say it's time to take out the Palinazi trash for a change. This is occupied Palinazi territory.
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"Palinazi trash"

by LA-IMC: haven for racists Thursday, Apr. 27, 2006 at 8:23 AM

Why is this crap on Indymedia?
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"from zionazis"

by anti-racist Thursday, Apr. 27, 2006 at 9:47 AM

Why is this crap on Indymedia?
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Why is this crap on Indymedia

by Sheepdog Thursday, Apr. 27, 2006 at 9:55 AM

We need to flush the human garbage racists.
Zionazis must be banished from the wire.
They are nasty dishonest, abusive, and self righteous hypocrite bastards.

Free Palestine.
Cut off aid to Zionist interests.
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What's wrong with the editors here?

by just wondering Thursday, Apr. 27, 2006 at 6:43 PM

Are they soft on racism? Are the soft on colonialism? Are the soft on imperialism? Don't they care how bad it makes all Indymedia look when racist aggressors are allowed to spew their filth on Indymedia bandwiidth?
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There they go again

by so predictable Thursday, Apr. 27, 2006 at 8:28 PM

Same old noise:

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it . . .

(snip)
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There he goes again

by so predictable Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 4:49 AM

Same old noise:

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1962248

(snip)

Sometimes he takes something that a Zionist has written, subtly alters its meaning by changing a few words, and posts it . . .

(snip)
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noise

by typical Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 5:27 AM

When lies, forgery and character assassination doesn't do the trick, the Zionist propaganda mill resorts to to trying to drown us out with sheer noise. It's not working. Little by little Americans are waking up to the racist atrocity that is Israel. Sooner or later, this country will abandon the Zionists to their well deserved fate, and good riddance.
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Wrong Nessie

by Tia Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 6:17 AM

From the Boston Globe:

A GALLUP POLL released last month puts American support for Israel at near-record levels. When asked for their views on the Middle East, 59 percent of Americans say they sympathize with the Israelis, while just 15 percent favor the Palestinians. Pro-Israel sentiment rises with increased knowledge -- 66 percent of those who follow international affairs ''very closely" support Israel, compared with 52 percent of those who don't pay close attention to foreign news.

Other findings are comparable. More than two-thirds of Americans say their overall view of Israel is favorable. Only 11 percent, by contrast, have a favorable opinion of the Palestinian Authority. While 22 percent of the public wants Washington to conduct diplomatic relations with the Hamas-controlled Palestinian government even if it refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist as a sovereign state, 44 percent say recognition of Israel must be a precondition to relations with the United States. Another 25 percent -- one American in four -- oppose any US dealings with Hamas at all.
**********

Near record levels, Nessie. Bicameral support in Congress. Look at whats going on locally- Notice how attendence on MY side of the Street steadily increases, while attendence on the other side steadily decreases?
Americans recognize that Israel is our only true ally, and the most stable government in an extremely volatile region
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buy cameral

by Sheepdog Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 9:20 AM

you are not discussing popular support for Israel.
You are discussing the results of Herculean lobby extortion and bribery.
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Most Americans

by Not a Dhimmi No More! Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 9:24 AM

Most Americans are smarter than that. You seem to have a strange and highly developed fantasy about Israel. Any thoughts about the astounding influence of Big Oil money and the effects on the US policy in say, Saudi?
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A mistake - ?

by Sheepdog Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 9:26 AM

Did I type lobby * and * bribery?
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What's going on?

by anti-racist Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 11:24 AM

What's wrong with the editors here? Are they soft on anti-Zionist racism? Are they soft on Palestinian colonialism? Are they soft on Arab imperialism? Are they soft on ecoside, gendercide, homophobia, war mongering and femicide across the Arab world? Don't they care how bad it makes all Indymedia look when racist anti-Zionist aggressors are allowed to spew their filth on Indymedia bandwidth?
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It was a gallup poll

by Tia Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 12:10 PM

"you are not discussing popular support for Israel.
You are discussing the results of Herculean lobby extortion and bribery."

Nope. Gallup poll. Mainstream Americans.
Yid brings up a good point- big oil spends millions lobbying here, and extending their influence in other ways. The Saudis just donated 10 million each to Harvard and Georgetown (and then Georgetown sponsored a conference on Palestinaina solidarity- think that's a coincidence?)
Hey- was that your president I saw holding hands with the Saudi prince?
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"American support for Israel at near-record levels"

by bunk logic Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 1:17 PM

(1.) That doesn't mean it will last. It doesn't even mean it's true. All it means is that's what Gallup says.

(2.) It certainly doesn't mean that supporting Israel is the right thing to do.

See:

http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/pop.htm
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Schtarker Yid

by We've learned to ignore you Nessie Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 1:30 PM

Dear Lee Doyle:

We've learned to ignore you "Nessie".

B'shalom;

Schartker
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since these weasels can only lie

by Sheepdog Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 1:46 PM

We must be doing pretty good which is why they CAN'T ignore either of us.
Ha ,ha ha ha
I always read what every they put out as lying crap. Because they're Pathological liars.
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Hey, bunk...

by Tia Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 2:39 PM

"American support for Israel at near-record levels"
by bunk logic Thursday, Apr. 27, 2006 at 4:17 PM

(1.) That doesn't mean it will last. It doesn't even mean it's true. All it means is that's what Gallup says.

With the amount the Saudis are pumping into the American propaganda machine, I don't think it will last either.
For now, a variety of pollsters support the same results as Gallup.

(2.) It certainly doesn't mean that supporting Israel is the right thing to do.

Yet supporting Israel is the right thing to do. Maybe there is some hope for these vacuous Americans, anyway. They got something right this time.

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"supporting Israel is the right thing to do"

by wrong Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 6:30 PM

It is *never* right to support racist, colonialist aggressors.

Death to the Zionist entity. Death to colonialism.
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im not here

by i swear Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 9:12 PM

"Death to the Zionist entity."

Nice way of making yourself sound a tad less disgusting than trying to justify killing individuals just because they are Zionists.

Am I gonna see you Saturday, lobbying the democrats to change their pro-war stance, and finally take a stance against HR418? Get up from that keyboard.

CM
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"It is *never* right to support racist, colonialist aggressors. "

by heard it before Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 1:51 AM

Supporting Israel is the right thing to do.

OTOH, It is *never* right to support racist, colonialist aggressors like the Palestinian entity or Syria.

Death to "nessie". Death to genocide apologists.
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ban the zionazis

by Sheepdog Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 3:08 AM

They only have their rancid racism and their psycho repetition.
'Death to genocide apologists' indeed.
Who needs these murdering lying zionazi parasites??
When they attempt to invert this post it will only make them look ignorant & retarded.

Out of gas.

MT
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zionazis are dangerous to all Jews

by Sheepdog Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 3:50 AM

Yeah, we need to make sure that your lying equivocating banal racism is not allowed to find root here where you totally abuse the IMC and the principles of humanity and reason.
You are obviously working as a team to assault this news and comment board with Racist propaganda. What I find particularly offensive is your assault upon the friends of mine who *are* Jews by aligning your dangerous inciting racism with them. It looks to me as a very deliberate strategy considering your abrasive tactics and the tackless nasty persona ( which is supposed to represent Jewish interests for crying out loud! ) whom coordinates this assault.
So quick to wrap the lives and public opinion of all the good Jewish people of the world in your theft murder and other rampant criminal meddling.
I'm certain , because this discussion comes up often, this is not appreciated. This is why you shold be banned for your kind are dangerous filth.

There seem to be 2 major Jewish views

Normal folk who want to have their kids grow up in a world of peace and prosperity
and the rabid punk minority with IDF T shirts.. Who can't fight w/o massive backup.
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invert this

by Sheepdog Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 4:10 AM

zionazis are dangerous to all Jews
by Sheepdog Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 6:50 AM

Yeah, we need to make sure that your lying equivocating banal racism is not allowed to find root here where you totally abuse the IMC and the principles of humanity and reason.
You are obviously working as a team to assault this news and comment board with Racist propaganda. What I find particularly offensive is your assault upon the friends of mine who *are* Jews by aligning your dangerous inciting racism with them. It looks to me as a very deliberate strategy considering your abrasive tactics and the tackless nasty persona ( which is supposed to represent Jewish interests for crying out loud! ) whom coordinates this assault.
So quick to wrap the lives and public opinion of all the good Jewish people of the world in your theft murder and other rampant criminal meddling.
I'm certain , because this discussion comes up often, this is not appreciated. This is why you shold be banned for your kind are dangerous filth.

There seem to be 2 major Jewish views

Normal folk who want to have their kids grow up in a world of peace and prosperity
and the rabid punk minority with IDF T shirts.. Who can't fight w/o massive backup.

[Buzz lips express fires off a blistering as follows ... retort ]

You've just relieved yourself?
by autoblocked @Indybay Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 6:51 AM

"blah blah zionazis blah blah belch blah blah shut 'em up". And on it goes.

Palinazis never tire of spouting off vile lies and invective. They've got virtually no other recourse.

Let's see you invert this:

Nfiy tfrhl
nfiy.tfrhl

[ like I always say - Running on MT ]
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Not a conspiracy

by Tia Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 4:37 AM

Dog: You are obviously working as a team to assault this news and comment board with Racist propaganda.

Tia: I, personally, am an independent contractor. I don't play well with others.

Dog: What I find particularly offensive is your assault upon the friends of mine who *are* Jews by aligning your dangerous inciting racism with them.

Tia: This statement puts you ahead of most of the anti-Zionist racists I've seen on Indymedia- who condemn all Jews universally, and who base their opinions on a person's net contribution to society on their political stance on one issue. For these, anti Zionism= anti-Semitism.
On the other hand, my opinions are based in fact and on history and are not propaganda. Nessie has pretty much come out and said the role of Indymedia should be pushing an agenda. If it were me, that agenda would be TRUTH.



Dog: It looks to me as a very deliberate strategy considering your abrasive tactics and the tackless nasty persona ( which is supposed to represent Jewish interests for crying out loud! ) whom coordinates this assault.

Tia: Not a conspiracy. Sorry. Thank you for playing. Try again.

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"Death to the Zionist entity."

by death to *all* colonialism Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 5:39 AM

>Nice way of making yourself sound a tad less disgusting than trying to justify killing individuals just because they are Zionists.

IMHO, individual Zionists should only be killed if they physically resist the destruction to the racist state, or are prepared to. This includes off duty reservists, but not children and elderly.

But like I said before, it's not my decision. It's just my opinion. It's up to the Palestinians to decide how to conduct their resistance. It's their decision. It is our duty and anti-colonialist to stand by it, whatever it is, even if it's ugly. No matter how ugly it is, it pales next to colonialism.

In my opinion, Israelis, per se, are not the problem. Israel is the problem. Israelis who are willing to denounce supremicism, and live as equals with the other people of Palestine, should have the right to do so, unmolested by their neighbors.

Perhaps a South African/Northern Irish style "Truth and Reconciliation" process would help. Just a suggestion


* * * * *

>>"It is *never* right to support racist, colonialist aggressors. "
>>by heard it before Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 4:51 AM

These people are soooooooo predictable. They lie and forge without a second thought:

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

* * * * *

> Death to "nessie".

Bring it on, *sshole. Nothing would make happier that a legal excuse to blow off your head. Make it sporting. Wear a vest.
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death also to

by nessiesque-supported colonialism Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 6:04 AM

>Nice way of making yourself sound a tad less disgusting than trying to justify killing individuals just because they are Zionists.

IMHO, individual Zionists should only be killed if they physically resist the destruction to the racist state, or are prepared to. This includes off duty reservists, but not children and elderly. Ergo, I support the genocide attempts undertaken by Hamas and the other pro-theocracy forces in Palestine to murder all Zionists.

But like I said before, it's not my decision. It's just my opinion. It's up to the Palestinians to decide how to conduct their resistance. It's their decision. But that doesn't mean I won't try to force them into carrying out what I think they should be doing. It is our duty and and pro-Palestinian colonialist to stand by it, whatever it is, though it's ugly. No matter how ugly it is, I support their desire for colonialism.

In my opinion, Israelis, per se, are the problem, as israel. Israelis who are willing to denounce supremicism, and live as equals with the other people of Palestine, should have the right to do so, unmolested by their neighbors. In other words, those Israelis left alive willing to accept a subservient dhimmi status in Palestine should not be killed, as long as they oblige every single Palestinian demand made of them.

Perhaps a South African/Northern Irish style "Truth and Reconciliation" process would help. Just my deceitful suggestion. I know the Palestinians aren't remotely interested in such a thing.


* * * * *

>>"It is *never* right to support racist, colonialist aggressors. "
>>by typical Thursday, Apr. 27, 2006 at 8:27 AM

This creature is soooooooo predictable. He lies and forges without a second thought:

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1962248

(snip)

Sometimes he takes something that a Zionist has written, subtly alters its meaning by changing a few words, and posts it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

* * * * *

> Nothing would make happier that a legal excuse to blow off your head.

Bring it on, *sshole. Nothing would make me happier that a legal excuse to hang your slain corpse upside down by your nuts from a lap post. Make it sporting. Wear a vest.
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To CM who really isn't here

by Tia who isn't here, either Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 6:08 AM

Coming in for the May 1st demo? Darfur vigil? Other momentous events, as well?

Shall we visit Nessie again? Buy him a drink, perhaps? Bind and gag him and force him to watch "Firefly"? (Oh- thats an entertaining thought!!!)

I personally don't wish him harm, even if he is a vile specimen. I think there is room on our planet for all, including the vile specimens. The same powers that created the magnificent coastal redwoods also created the leech and the liver fluke. The same powers that created you and I created Nessie and Sheepdog. We are all made from the same stardust. It just happens to be more coherently organized in our cases.
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ha ha

by Sheepdog Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 6:43 AM

nessie is not radical enough to be typed into the same sentence w/ me.
Both of us seem to share the same distain towards lying cowards w/o honor, however.
And racist zionazis. Whom are the lowest kind of human garbage.
It makes me feel better to have incurred the disfavor of the likes of your nature of filth.

:>)
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Why Let Facts Get in the Way of a Good Semite Bash?

by Changeling Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 8:00 AM
Changeling_au_2004@yahoo.com.au (+61)409 952 382 Melbourne, Australia

Was There a Massacre at Deir Yassin?

The pro-PLO camp says yes; the historical documentation says otherwise

Historical and Investigative Research, 20 Nov 2005

by Francisco Gil-White

http://www.hirhome.com/israel/deir-yassin.htm

________________________________________________________

Preface

In any conflict, we can expect the interested parties to say that their opponents are bad, so finding the balance of justice requires that we go beyond the mutual accusations of the participants.

In the Arab-Israeli conflict, supporters of the PLO charge that the "Palestinian refugee problem" stems from supposed civilian massacres carried out by Jewish forces, which created a panic resulting in the flight of the Arab population. The argument rests almost exclusively on the repetition of the allegation that Jewish forces perpetrated a massacre of Arab civilians at Deir Yassin.

Since the entire argument rests heavily on Deir Yassin, what will be left of the accusation against the Jews if Arab civilians were not massacred at Deir Yassin?

________________________________________________________

Allegations by Arabs

________________________________________________________

What happened at Deir Yassin? One way to get a feel for why so many people around the world believe that Jewish forces massacred Arab civilians at Deir Yassin is to read a major newspaper. For example, according to The Guardian, Deir Yassin is

". . .the Palestinian village where 254 [Arab] villagers were massacred in April 1948, in the most spectacular single attack in the conquest of Palestine."[1]

Several things are noteworthy about the way in which the Guardian writes. The first is that the Guardian takes it for granted that there was a massacre at Deir Yassin, even though this allegation has always been hotly disputed. But not a hint of that controversy in the Guardian's article. I shall come back to this.

Second, notice that the phrase "the conquest of Palestine" is designed to suggest that a place existed called Palestine, and that it was conquered in a war of aggression. In fact, however, a foreign colonial power, Britain, had baptized a piece of land in the Middle East as Palestine in 1918, reviving an ancient name that had not been used in centuries. Four years later, the British radically re-drew the boundaries of Palestine, making it less than half its previous size. Thats how much reality Palestine had.[1a]

But even if one were to grant the reality of Palestine the Guardian would still be wrong when it claims that this land was conquered in a Jewish war of aggression, because the Jews were defending themselves from an Arab attack. And by the way, the explicit and loudly stated Arab objective was to exterminate the Israeli Jews. Consider what Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League, promised:

"This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."[2]

That the attacking Arabs could speak this way only three years after Adolf Hitler had finished exterminating the European Jewish population is astonishing. One wishes to avert the eyes but one must not -- this reveals how fiercely the antisemitic passion burned in the hearts of Israels Arab enemies in 1948.

Notice also that the Guardians phrase "the most spectacular single attack" appears to suggest that there were many such attacks, as if the Jews had conducted themselves on the battlefield worse than the Arabs. But...it was the Arabs who meant to exterminate the Jews. And the Arabs were not alone. The Nation, in 1948, publishing the official documents it had obtained, exposed that the US State Department supported, and the British Foreign Office sponsored, the Arab side in this war. This included the British sending captured Nazi officers to 'advise' the Arab armies.[2a]

So given that the Guardian braves historical absurdity in order to write with an anti-Jewish slant, we are now entitled to wonder if the Guardian might not be dishonest when it takes it for granted that there was a massacre of Arab civilians by Jewish forces at Deir Yassin. But if we are capable of skepticism on this point, it is because we have performed the historical analysis, which most people do not. Most people simply read the Guardian, trusting what they read, and what they understand is that the Arab allegations are supposedly fact.

They are not.

The allegations about Deir Yassin on the Arab side all seem to go back to a certain Hussein Khalidi. As Palestine Facts explains,

"Khalidi was one of the originators of the massacre allegation in 1948. It was Khalidis claims about Jewish atrocities in Dir Yassin that were the basis for an article in the New York Times by its correspondent, Dana Schmidt (on April 12, 1948), claiming a massacre took place. The Times article has been widely reprinted and cited as proof of the massacre throughout the past 50 years."[4]

This is what Dana Schmidt from the New York Times wrote in 1948:

"Dr. Hussein Khalidi, secretary of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee, denounced the 'massacre' of 250 Arab men, women, and children by Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, Zionist terrorist groups, at Deir Yassin on Friday."[4a]

[ NOTE: Although the New York Times calls the Irgun a "terrorist" group, this is a slander, for which consult the footnote.[4b] ]

Now, to understand whether Hussein Khalidi's charges should have been believed in the first place, it pays to recall who was Hajj Amin al Husseini, because Hajj Amin was Khalidi's boss.

Hajj Amin mentored Yasser Arafat and Al Fatah, the core of the PLO, but before that he was the Mufti of Jerusalem, from which position he organized terrorist riots against innocent Jews in the British Mandate territory in 1921, 1929, and 1936-37 (the British rewarded him with the post of Mufti after he organized the first terrorist riot in 1920). During World War II, Hajj Amin became a top Nazi and organized SS divisions in Yugoslavia composed of tens of thousands of Bosnian Muslim volunteers who were responsible for many of the hundreds of thousands of Serbian, Jewish, and Roma civilian deaths at the Croatian death-camp system of Jasenovac (others they killed in their homes). Hajj Amin also played a leading role in getting some 400,000 Hungarian Jews sent to die in Auschwitz.[5] It was Hajj Amin al Husseini who created the "Palestine Arab Higher Committee," which, as the New York Times informs us (see above), had Hussein Khalidi for secretary. So, if the charge of a massacre at Deir Yassin came from the leader of Hajj Amins organization, doesnt that suggest that the accusation might be a fabrication?

What would be the smoking gun that the Arab accusations about Deir Yassin were, in fact, fabrications?

"The 1998 BBC TV series, Israel and the Arabs: the 50 year Conflict, documented that Arab Higher Committee officials Hazem Nusseibeh and Hussein Khalidi falsified facts [about Deir Yassin] and originated, for propaganda purposes, charges of rape."[3]

How did the BBC document this? Nusseibeh confessed!

I point out two things. The first is that the BBC report came out three full years before the 2001 article in the Guardian that got us started, and which accuses the Israeli Jews -- with zero hint of a controversy, as if it were a standard historical fact -- of having supposedly committed a massacre at Deir Yassin.

The second is that there is no reason to doubt what the BBC reports, as it fits perfectly with everything else we know. For example, it fits nicely with the fact that, in 1948, the Mufti Hajj Amin al Husseini, through his Arab Higher Committee, of which Khalidi was the secretary, was trying to get the Palestinian Arabs to flee the area. Joseph Farah, a Christian Arab, has documented with Arab newspaper articles written close to the time of the events that there was no ambiguity on this point.[6] It turns out that

"The 15th May, 1948, arrived... On that day the mufti of Jerusalem [Hajj Amin al Husseini] appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead."[7]

The Arab newspapers lamented this as a tactical mistake:

"By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities, killings of women and children etc., [Arab leaders] instilled fear and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their homes and properties to the enemy."[8]

Both of the above quotes come from the Arab newspapers that Farah cites (and there are others).

Finally, there was never anything to substantiate the charges of rape.

"Contrary to claims from Arab propagandists at the time and some since, no evidence has ever been produced that any women were raped. On the contrary, every villager ever interviewed has denied these allegations. Like many of the claims, this was a deliberate propaganda ploy, but one that backfired. Hazam Nusseibi, who worked for the Palestine Broadcasting Service in 1948, admitted being told by Hussein Khalidi, a Palestinian Arab leader, to fabricate the atrocity claims. Abu Mahmud, a Deir Yassin resident in 1948 told Khalidi 'there was no rape,' but Khalidi replied, 'We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews.' Nusseibeh told the BBC 50 years later, 'This was our biggest mistake. We did not realize how our people would react. As soon as they heard that women had been raped at Deir Yassin, Palestinians fled in terror.'"[14]

Let us review:

1) the genocidal antisemite Hajj Amin had a policy to make the Arabs flee;

2) the man responsible for making up "rumors of Jewish atrocities" to make the Arabs flee was Hussein Khalidi, Hajj Amin's deputy;

3) these "rumors of Jewish atrocities" were rumors, specifically, about Deir Yassin.

4) the guy Khalidi got to spread these rumors about Deir Yassin, Nusseibeh, confesses that they made it all up.

What, then, are those who would accuse the Jews of chasing out the Arabs left with?

________________________________________________________

Allegations by Jews

________________________________________________________

Supporters of the PLO are fond of citing Jewish sources, because some Jewish sources indeed have claimed that there was a massacre at Deir Yassin.

For example, the same 1948 New York Times article by Dana Adams Schmidt says this:

"The executive of the Jewish Agency for Palestine expressed tonight 'horror and disgust' at the 'barbarous manner in which this action had been carried out.'"

For many, this is will look like automatic proof that the massacre happened because, they ask themselves, why would Jews lie against self-interest?

Ah, but that assumes that all Jews have the same interest -- a touch of antisemitism ("theyre all the same. . ."). In fact, "the Jews" did not make an accusation about Deir Yassin -- the Jewish Agency did. So the question is: Did this organization, by name "Jewish Agency," have an interest in smearing the Jewish army led by Menachem Begin, the Irgun Tzvai Leumi (or Irgun, for short, or ETZEL, in acronym), with the label 'terrorist'?

The answer is yes.

Israeli Jews have been sharply divided politically from the time before the founding of the state of Israel. Before becoming a state, the Yishuv, the Jewish community in British Mandate Palestine, was a motley collection of unions, plus some other organizations. The left was dominant, so most political activity was conducted in the unions, which developed political parties, and eventually also militias. But the dominant feeling among leftists, who were the overwhelming majority, is that they didn't want to participate in any violence -- even in self-defense. This extreme pacifism of the Zionist Jews made their self-defense quite difficult, and historian Anita Shapira has written an entire volume trying to understand why it took so long for these Jews to begin to defend themselves from Arab terrorist attacks:

Shapira, A. 1992. Land and power: The Zionist resort to force 1881-1948. New York & Oxford: Oxford University Press.

Now, although the leftists were sharply divided among themselves on many questions, and certainly on all the important questions, the sharpest divide in the Yishuv -- which reflected an equally deep divide in the Diaspora -- was between the socialist/mainstream Zionists and the Revisionists. The latter received this name because they wanted a Zionist movement that was more open to different kinds of ways of life, rather than the more insistent strand of socialism that most Zionists favored. In addition, these so-called Revisionists believed that, in the face of wave after wave of Arab terrorist riots against innocent Jewish civilians in the 1920s and 30s, the pacifist attitude of the dominant leftists, which forbade reprisals, was morally absurd and politically unwise. So they created the Irgun Tzvai Leumi (ETZEL).

"[Etzel was] founded in 1931 by a group of Haganah commanders, who left the Haganah [the main Jewish militia] in protest against its defense charter ... Etzel rejected the 'restraint' policy of the Haganah and carried out armed reprisals against Arabs, which were condemned by the Jewish Agency."[8a]

For their use of force in self-defense (from which all Jews in British Mandate Palestine benefited), the Irgun was called fascist by the socialists. This shows how passionate the leftist Jews had been before 1936-37 in their pathological renunciation of violence, and also the depth of the feelings aroused by the political split among the Jews.[9] Once this political context is understood, it makes sense that some Jews joined the chorus of lies about Deir Yassin.

The Irgun and Lehi (these were the names of the two main Revisionist militias) had been persecuted by the Haganah. Despite this, when the war of 1948 exploded, the Revisionists swallowed their pride and joined the Haganah to defend Israel like good patriots, but the political conflict continued to seethe. Historian Uri Milstein, author of the most meticulously researched multi-volume history of the 1948 war, explains as follows:

"The Deir-Yassin events became an affair due to the juxtaposition of several factors, foremost among them the struggle within the Yishuv [the Jewish community in Israel]. The Deir-Yassin affair was used for political ends by MAPAM and the Revisionist parties, which were not represented on the Jewish Agency Executive. MAPAM heavily influenced the Hagana combat forces; the Revisionists had influence on ETZEL and indirectly on LEHI."[9a]

Keep in mind that the core of the Haganah was the Palmach -- essentially the private militia of the leftist MAPAM party, which is why MAPAM had so much influence over the Haganah.

Now, despite the wartime union between the leftists and the Revisionists, there was a desire among many in the left to discredit the Revisionists, even at the cost of Jewish security (for the war still raged), in such a way as to deny them any political role in the future state. Thus, the allegation by the leftists -- and especially by MAPAM -- became that soldiers of the Irgun and Lehi had supposedly committed a massacre at Deir Yassin.

Historian Uri Milstein writes:

"The Dir Yassin affair occurred on April 9 1948, following the capture, by Irgun, Lehi, and Palmach soldiers, of this Arab village, situated west of Jerusalem. The following day, Meir Pail, Internal Security Unit commander, responsible for organizing activities against the Irgun and Lehi in Jerusalem, reported to Chief of Haganah National HQ, Yisrael Galili (also a leader of the leftist Mapam Party), that 254 men women and children were massacred by Irgun and Lehi troops in Dir Yassin. This was a false report."[10]

All of the crucial political information appears in the quote above. The Jewish source making the Deir Yassin allegation against the Irgun and Lehi, Meir Pail, was an official in the Haganah (the leftist militia), and his job was "organizing activities against [the Revisionist forces of] the Irgun and Lehi." He made his report to a leader of the leftist MAPAM party; MAPAM was interested in derailing the Revisionists, as Milstein explains:

"For much of MAPAMs leadership at the time, the great disaster facing the Yishuv [the Jewish community in Israel] was not its defeat in the battle for the roads or losing Americas support for the founding of a Jewish state, but a possible agreement between the Hagana and ETZEL [Irgun Tzvai Leumi]. Anything that would thwart this development was legitimate in their eyes. The decisive struggle would occur when the Zionist Executive met.

And then, for MAPAM, opportunity knocked; Deir-Yassin happened."[11]

What Milstein is saying is that because there was a sharp political rivalry between leftist MAPAM and the Irgun, the accusation that the Irgun had committed a massacre at Deir Yassin was convenient for MAPAM.

The first thing that must be pointed out is what this implies about the culture and ethics of the Jewish forces and people. If some Jews could remove other Jews as political rivals by accusing them of having committed a massacre against Arab civilians, this means that the Jewish side considered the targeting of Arab civilians a tremendous crime. It is worth pausing to fully absorb this. And, once absorbed, it is worth returning to this: Azzam Pasha told us above how the Arabs felt about their Nazi-led forces killing Jewish civilians: this was the goal.

Perhaps the above paragraph should be read once again. It's the sort of thing that produces Enlightenment.

Now, given that MAPAM had a political motive to slander the Irgun, it should not come as a big surprise that Meir Pail, MAPAMs weapon against the Irgun, could not back up his allegations. Uri Milstein writes, "On a massacre following the battle there is only the account of Meir Pail, who claims that he was in the village during and after the battle."[12] But, in fact, all the evidence gathered by historian Uri Milstein suggests that Meir Pail was never there, contrary to what Pail has claimed:

[Quote From Uri Milstein Starts Here]

Moshe Idelstein, the friend who supposedly had invited Pail to Deir-Yassin, asserts, "I didnt invite Meir Pail and he wasnt at Deir-Yassin." Other ETZEL and LEHI men state that Pail was not at Deir-Yassin and could not have been there without their knowing it. Zetler, Raanan, Barzilai, Lapidot and Zelivansky state that they did not see Pail at Deir-Yassin. Pails claims also go unsubstantiated by Hagana personnel. Statements by Shealtiel, Mart, Eldad and Schiff mention neither his name nor his code names ("Avraham" and "Ram"). Pail spoke about exchanges between him and Palmach soldiers in Deir-Yassin. Eren and Gihon, who were acquainted with Pail at the time, did not see him at Deir-Yassin. Shlomo Havilyo, the Haganas western Jerusalem commander, was at Givat-Shaul on April 9th. "I didnt see Meir Pail," he says. "I knew him well. Id remember it if he was there." Arieli, who supervised the burials, says that he did not see Meir Pail at Deir-Yassin, much less talk with him about the number of bodies buried or any other matter."[13]

[Quote From Uri Milstein Ends Here]

To read Uri Milsteins section on the distortions and fabrications about Deir Yassin in full, with his references, visit here:

http://www.hirhome.com/israel/milstein-deir-yassin.htm

The political divide in Israel has not abated, and some of those Jews who made the original fraudulent accusations about Deir Yassin -- for example, Meir Pa'il -- are still alive and repeating them. An entire edifice of historical fabrications has been built to glorify the leftist leaders during the War of Independence and simultaneously to besmirch the Revisionist camp and their political heirs.[13a]

________________________________________________________

What happened at Deir Yassin?

________________________________________________________

So what happened at Deir Yassin? Certainly, quite a few Arab civilians died (the best estimate puts the toll at 110, not 254), but they died during the course of the battle, and they were not targeted for destruction. On the contrary, efforts were made to warn them before the battle started. Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, gives the following account:

[Quote From Menachem Begin Starts Here]

. . .there is a moral aspect to the story of Dir Yassin. At that village, whose name was publicized throughout the world, both sides suffered heavy casualties. We had four killed and nearly forty wounded. The number of casualties was nearly forty per cent of the total number of the attackers. The Arab troops suffered casualties three times as heavy. The fighting was thus very severe. Yet the hostile propaganda, disseminated throughout the world, deliberately ignored the fact that the civilian population of Dir Yassin was actually given a warning by us before the battle began. One of our tenders carrying a loud speaker was stationed at the entrance to the village and it exhorted in Arabic all women, children and aged to leave their houses and to take shelter on the slope of the hill. By giving this humane warning our fighters threw away the element of complete surprise, and thus increased their own risk in the ensuing battle. A substantial number of the inhabitants obeyed the warning and they were unhurt. A few did not leave their stone houses -- perhaps because of the confusion. The fire of the enemy was murderous -- to which the number of our casualties bears eloquent testimony. Our men were compelled to fight for every house; to overcome the enemy they used large numbers of hand-grenades. And the civilians who had disregarded our warnings suffered inevitable casualties.

The education which we gave our soldiers throughout the years of revolt was based on the observance of the traditional laws of war. We never broke them unless the enemy first did so and thus forced us, in accordance with the accepted custom of war, to apply reprisals. I am convinced, too, that our officers and men wished to avoid a single unnecessary casualty in the Dir Yassin battle. But those who throw stones of denunciation at the conquerors of Dir Yassin would do well not to don the cloak of hypocrisy.[15]

[Quote Ends Here]

________________________________________________________

The Moral Argument

________________________________________________________

Coming back to the arguments made by supporters of the Palestinians, let us ask this question. How could the accusation of a massacre at Deir Yassin -- even had it been true -- make the argument that it is recruited for, namely, that the moral position of the Israeli Jews is inferior and therefore that they owe the Palestinian Arabs?

Even if the Jews had massacred Arabs at Deir Yassin (which they did not), given the historical context of the 1948 war, it would not alter the global moral position of the Jews versus the Palestinian Arabs.

Consider:

First, the Jews did not start the 1948 war. After the UN voted to create the state of Israel alongside an Arab state in the Levant in 1947, the Arab states chose not to recognize Israel and immediately declared war, with the enthusiastic support of Arabs living in British Mandate Palestine, who participated.

It was a lopsided contest. Israel, at the time a sliver of land much smaller even than its current diminutive size, and without a real army, was attacked simultaneously by all the surrounding Arab states.

Moreover, Israels enemies stated very clearly that their objective was genocide. I quote again Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League, who promised:

"This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."[16]

The war was brutal, and the Arabs took no prisoners. Any Jews who fell alive into Arab hands were routinely tortured to death (I shall spare you the details of the methods). This happened to such an extent that most Jewish soldiers left wounded on the battlefield, beyond the reach of their comrades, would commit suicide by exploding a grenade.[17]

The Arabs also directed many attacks against civilians. For example, on April 12 Dana Schmidt, from the New York Times, insisted that

"Dr. Hussein Khalidi, secretary of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee...said...that the Arabs planned no reprisals [for Deir Yassin]"[4a]

And yet, the day after,

"on April 13, 78 Jews, mostly medical personnel riding to Hadassah Hospital, were slain. That was the Arab answer to Deir-Yassin"[18]

The two events are not even remotely equivalent. Deir Yassin was being used as a base to attack Jewish convoys going to Jerusalem. It was a legitimate military target. Many civilians did die there, but they died as a result of combat operations, and efforts were made to warn them before the attack began. Nobody targeted the Arab civilians at Deir Yassin. By contrast, "78 Jews, mostly medical personnel riding to Hadassah Hospital" are not a military target, but the very opposite of one.

So we have the following:

1) The creation of the state of Israel was legal: it was approved by a vote in the General Assembly at the UN.

2) The war of aggression by the surrounding Arab states was illegal -- as all wars of aggression naturally are.

3) The stated objective of Israels enemies was to exterminate the Jews.

4) In the conduct of war, the Arabs routinely targeted Jewish civilians and murdered captured Jewish soldiers.

None of this is to deny that some crimes were committed by Jewish soldiers, and the best documentation on Deir Yassin (for example, the work of Uri Milstein) does argue for the claim that some individual soldiers committed individual crimes in the heat of combat. What the best documentation denies is the accusations that were loudly made: namely, 1) that a mass of civilians was rounded up after the battle and massacred, and 2) that women were raped. The best research on Deir Yassin also denies the claim that 254 civilians died in the attack (the best documented figure is 110).

Individual crimes of war are committed by every side in every war. They shouldn't be, but an army whose soldiers commit zero crimes in wartime has not yet been assembled. What matters when morally evaluating an army in a particular war, then, is not whether crimes of war occurred at all (since some always will), but whether such crimes of war were policy, whether they were common, and whether they were internally prosecuted and punished by the army itself. In the case of the Arabs (who, lest we forget, were the aggressors) murdering civilians was policy: in fact their policy was the extermination of the Jewish people. In the case of the Jews, crimes of war were so exceptional that the accusation of a massacre could be used by one Jewish faction against another to provoke horror in Jewish society and gain a political advantage. Moreover, lest we forget, the Jews did not even start this war -- they were merely fighting for their survival.

Thus, even if one could argue that Jewish forces massacred Arab civilians at Deir Yassin, this incident by itself would not affect the global moral balance. What is remarkable is that Deir Yassin is almost the only case that supporters of the PLO bring up in order to support the claim that the Israeli Jews supposedly chased the Arabs out in 1948. And the accusation is a fraud.

 

________________________________________________________

Footnotes and Further Reading

________________________________________________________

[1] The Guardian (London), November 28, 2001, Guardian Features Pages, Pg. 6, 1697 words, Inside Story: The Sharon files: A Belgian court will today decide whether to try Ariel Sharon for war crimes. Julie Flint uncovers secret documents that detail Israel's involvement in the 1982 massacres at Sabra and Shatila, Julie Flint

[1a] Where does the name Palestine come from? The ancient Romans gave the name Syria-Palestina, in the second century, to land that previously included the Roman province of Judea (land of the Jews), and before that independent Judah (land of the Jews). Why the name change? Because the Roman Empire carried out a genocide of the Jews in the first and second centuries (this is often referred to as The First Jewish War and The Second Jewish War, with another bout of extermination in between called The Diaspora Revolt).

NOTE: To read about the Roman genocide of the Jews, read chapter 1 of "The Book of Genesis: The Birth of the Jewish People," by Francisco Gil-White.

http://www.hirhome.com/israel/cruxcontents.htm

 

The point of the name change for the Roman exterminators was to make it seem as if this was not Jewish land, but the land of the Philistines (thats what Palestine means: land of the Philistines):

". . .the Philistines came from Caphtor (possibly Crete). They are mentioned in Egyptian records as one of the Sea Peoples that invaded Egypt in about 1190 BC after ravaging Anatolia, Cyprus, and Syria. After being repulsed by the Egyptians, they occupied the coastal plain of Palestine from Joppa (modern Tel Aviv-Yafo) southward to the Gaza Strip. The area contained the five cities (the Pentapolis) of the Philistine confederacy (Gaza, Ashkelon [Ascalon], Ashdod, Gath, and Ekron) and was known as Philistia, or the Land of the Philistines. It was from this designation that the whole of the country was later called Palestine by the Greeks."

SOURCE: "Philistine." Encyclopædia Britannica from Encyclopædia Britannica Online.

http://proxy.library.upenn.edu:8420/eb/article-9059701

[Accessed August 23, 2005].

The Philistines disappeared from the historical record around the year 603 BCE, when the Babylonians took them captive to Babylon. So the name change from Judea to Syria-Palestina by the Romans some 730 years later, in the second century CE, was simply part of a larger effort by the Romans to wipe out the Jews. They were cleansing the Jewish people from their own land.

The final genocidal onslaught of the Romans against the Jews was simply breathtaking.

"Fifty forts where the rebels had put up resistance were destroyed and 985 towns, villages, and agricultural settlements [also were]. [The Roman author] Dio [Cassius] says 580,000 Jews died in the fighting 'and countless numbers of starvation, fire and the sword. Nearly the entire land of Judea was laid waste.' In the late fourth century, St. Jerome reported from Bethlehem a tradition that, after the defeat, there were so many Jewish slaves for sale that the price dropped to less than a horse.

[The emperor] Hadrian relentlessly carried through to completion his plan to transform ruined Jerusalem into a Greek polis. He buried the hollows of the old city in rubble to level the site. Outside the limits he removed the debris to get at and excavate the rock below to provide the huge ashlars for the public buildings he set up on the leveled site. . . .The city he built was called Aelia Capitolina. Greek-speakers were moved in to populate it and the Jews were forbidden to enter on pain of death."

SOURCE: Johnson, P. 1987. A History of the Jews. New York: Harper & Row. (pp.142-143)

It was the emperor Hadrian who came up with Syria-Palestina. And thats the ancient history of the name Palestine.

The recent history goes like this.

"The name Palestine was revived after the fall of the Ottoman Empire in World War I [year 1918] and applied to the territory in this region that was placed under the British Mandate for Palestine."

SOURCE: "Where did the name Palestine come from?"; Early History, Palestine Origin; Palestine Facts.

http://palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_name_origin.php

This freshly designated Palestine, however, did not correspond to the present boundaries of the State of Israel, which the so-called Palestinians claim for themselves; it was much larger, including all of what is present-day Jordan. In 1922, however, the British declared that much of that territory would not be called Palestine, after all. So in just four years, quite a lot of people who, by British colonialist fiat, had just become Palestinian, became non-Palestinian again, and once again by British colonialist fiat. Remarkable, isnt it? Making and unmaking Palestinians is the easiest thing in the world.

"The [1922 British] White Paper stated that the Balfour Declaration could not be amended and that the Jews were in Palestine by right, [but] it partitioned the area of the Mandate by excluding the area east of the Jordan River [now Transjordan] from Jewish settlement."

SOURCE: "How did the Arab territory of Transjordan come into being?"; British Mandate Transjordan; Palestine Facts.

http://palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_transjordan.php

Notice that when the British designated an area with the name Palestine, the Jews were understood to be Palestinians, which is why "the Jews," many of whom had never left this area, "were in Palestine by right."

[2] Howard M Sachar, A History of Israel (New York: Knopf, 1979)p. 333

[2a] In 1948, the Left-wing Nation magazine exposed British support/instigation of Arab violence aimed at crushing Israel in cradle

The British Record on Partition

(First part of the article)

Reprinted from The Nation, May 8, 1948

Comments by Jared Israel

[Posted 9 March 2004]

For the pdf to the entire Nation piece, go here:

http://www.tenc.net/history/nbr.pdf

To read the same document in text format, go here:

http://emperors-clothes.com/history/br.htm

According to current Left dogma Israel was created as an outpost of Western colonialism to crush anti-colonial Arabs. But in 1948 the Left proved the exact opposite. This is the start of an EC project, bringing to light suppressed documents that challenge current beliefs about this key period in Arab-Israeli relations, 1947-1949.

[3] The Jerusalem Post, June 16, 2000, Friday, BOOKS; Pg. 13B, 806 words, An 'old historian' hits back, Yisrael Medad

[4] http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_war_diryassin.php

[4a] ARABS SAY KASTEL HAS BEEN RETAKEN; JEWS DENY CLAIM; By DANA ADAMS SCHMIDT; Special to THE NEW YORK TIMES. New York Times (1857-Current file); Apr 12, 1948; ProQuest Historical Newspapers The New York Times (1851 -- 2001) pg. 1

[4b] Supporters of the PLO often claim that the Irgun, in its later years led by Menachem Begin, was a terrorist organization. This is an attempt to create a moral equivalence between the Israeli Jews on the one hand, and the Nazi-trained Palestinian fascists on the other. This has been helped along by slanders emanating from the leftist movements which dominated Jewish political life at the time of the founding of Israel, and which did everything they could to discredit their rivals, the Revisionists, of whom Begin was the most prominent leader after Jabotinsky's death.

It is true that Begin was an armed revolutionary, but this in itself does not make him a terrorist. A terrorist deliberately targets innocent civilians. Did the Irgun? No. Quite the contrary.

The Irgun was formed to retaliate against Arab terrorists because the Revisionists were disgusted with the policy of self-restraint advocated by the dominant leaders in the Yishuv (the Palestinian Jewish community), which policy called for no reprisals despite the serious loss of Jewish civilian life. Retaliation against one's attackers is self-defense, not terrorism.

When the Irgun later proclaimed a Revolt against the British they went to great lengths in order to protect civilian lives. Their strategy was designed to affect only property.

[Start Quote From Foreign Affairs, 1975]

...[This] was explained to me and to others at a meeting in New York City sometime in 1945 by one of the founders of the Irgun Zvai Leumi, a tiny group of Jewish militants in what was then the British-mandated territory of Palestine. His organization had no more than 1,000 or 1,500 members, and it was at odds with the Palestinian Jewish community almost as much as it was with the mandatory regime. Yet he proposed to combat Great Britain, then a global power whose armed forces in the Second World War numbered in the millions, and to expel Great Britain from Palestine.

How could such a thousand-to-one struggle be won? To do so, as he explained it, his organization would attack property interests. After giving advance warning to evacuate them, his small band of followers would blow up buildings. This, he said, would lead the British to overreact. . .

[End Quote From Foreign Affairs]

SOURCE: The Strategy Of Terrorism; Foreign Affairs, July 1975; by David Fromkin.

[5] For documentation on Hajj Amin's role, consult the following:

1) "Anti-Semitism, Misinformation, And The Whitewashing Of The Palestinian Leadership"; by Francisco Gil-White; Emperor's Clothes;

http://emperors-clothes.com/gilwhite/Israel.htm#part2

2) Mufti of Jerusalem Hajj Amin's Role as Leading Instigator of the Shoah (Holocaust); by Jared Israel; Emperor's Clothes; 5 November, 2003

http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/bakera.htm

[6] "The world's collective amnesia." Posted: September 19, 2002; 1:00 a.m. Eastern; © 2002 WorldNetDaily.com; by Joseph Farah.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28988

[7] The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, Oct. 12, 1963.

[8] The Jordanian daily newspaper Al Urdun, April 9, 1953.

[8a] Irgun Zeva'i Le'umi "The National Military Organization" (Etzel, I.Z.L.); Jewish Virtual Library.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/irgun.html

[9] To see the absurd extremes leftist Jews went to, and the spectacular amounts of terrorist Arab violence which they tolerated while refusing to fight back, read: Shapira, A. 1992. Land and power: The Zionist resort to force 1881-1948. New York & Oxford: Oxford University Press.

[9a] Milstein, Uri 1996 History of the War of Independence: Out of crisis came decision. Vol. 4. A. Sacks, trans. New York: University Press of America. (pp.376-396)

[10] Milstein, U. 1999. The Rabin file: An unauthorized exposé. New York. (p.357)

[11] Milstein, Uri 1996 History of the War of Independence: Out of crisis came decision. Vol. 4. A. Sacks, trans. New York: University Press of America. (p.384)

[12] Milstein, Uri 1996 History of the War of Independence: Out of crisis came decision. Vol. 4. A. Sacks, trans. New York: University Press of America. (p.378)

[13] Milstein, Uri 1996 History of the War of Independence: Out of crisis came decision. Vol. 4. A. Sacks, trans. New York: University Press of America. (p.378)

[13a] For an analysis and documentation of this, see: Milstein, U. 1999. The Rabin file: An unauthorized exposé. New York. (p.357)

[14] "Deir Yassin," by Mitchell Bard

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/deir_yassin.html

Bards documentation on this point comes from the same BBC show that documented the lies of the Arab propagandists with respect to the massacre: "Israel and the Arabs: The 50 Year Conflict," BBC.

[15] Begin, Menachem 1964 The Revolt: Story of the Irgun. Tel-Aviv: Hadar Pub. Co.

[16] Howard M Sachar, A History of Israel (New York: Knopf, 1979), p. 333

[17] Historian Uri Milstein, who has produced the definitive history of the 1948 war, recounts many battles with great detail in his work "The Rabin File." It becomes clear from these descriptions just how routine the suicide of wounded Jewish soldiers on the battlefield was, who feared the atrocities they knew only too well would follow at the hands of the enemy Arabs.

Milstein U. 1999. The Rabin file: An unauthorized exposé. New York: Gefen

[18] Milstein, U. 1996. History of the War of Independence: Out of crisis came decision. Vol. 4. New York: University Press of America. (p.387)

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27 pages of spam

by Sheepdog Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 8:21 AM

Pointing at some occluded facet of history does not make Zionism any less heinous.
If we want a world free of terror, then terror should stop being practiced.
A difficult concept for some.
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Excellent analysis, changling

by Tia Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 8:22 AM

Thank you.
I recently read the NY times reports of Deir Yassin- the mainstream Jewish community (both religious leaders and politiicans) expressed their horror and dismay over the events
As oppossed to, lets say, Hamas, that calls the murder of men, women and child eating lunch an "heroic act of self defense".
*****

Dog: "nessie is not radical enough to be typed into the same sentence w/ me. "

I 'll let you and he argue over "who is more radical than thou". I have no vested interest in the winner of this dubious distinction .

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then STFU

by Sheepdog Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 8:31 AM

And don't go name dropping like some yuppie trying to 'blend in'.
And I really doubt that you read the spam before your dribbling post of congratulations to another member of your team o weasels.
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Historic background

by Schtarker Yid Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 8:40 AM

The supposed "anti-zionists" have made their positions quite clear,"don't confuse them with facts, they've already made up their minds."

If your political views about Israel aren't based on facts, truth, history or logic, and you are neither Arab nor Jew, then that only leaves one basis and one motivation for our "anti-zionsts." And that is simple prejudice.
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huh

by tia Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 8:43 AM

And don't go name dropping like some yuppie trying to 'blend in'.

Huh? Your paranoia is showing....or is that your hate? I get them confused.

And I really doubt that you read the spam before your dribbling post of congratulations to another member of your team o weasels.

Indeed I did read it. Did you?

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Does "Spam"Mean?

by Not a Dhimmi No More! Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 8:53 AM

Does "Spam" in "anti-zionist" lingo mean "anything anti-zionists disagree with?
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Analysis Vs Spam

by Changeling Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 8:54 AM
Changeling_au_2004@yahoo.com.au (+61)409 952 382 Melbourne, Australia

Thanks for the adjectives, Tia. Yes - events such as those which occured at Deir Yassin and Jenin *are* horrible. However, it is clearly more constructive for those of us who aren't in immediate danger to view these *events* more objectively and look at the *situation(s)* which causes them.

The analysis was completely lost on "Sheepdog" - but that's OK 'cos I'm not targeting moronic trolls.

They can be good for a laugh though......

:)
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Anti-Zionist Rhapsody

by Changeling Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 9:03 AM
Changeling_au_2004@yahoo.com.au (+61)409 952 382 Melbourne, Australia

Is this Realpolitik?
Is this just banality?
Caught in a War Game
No escape from causality
Open your eyes
Look up through the lies and see
I'm just a bad joke, I need no sympathy
Because I'm easy come, easy go
A little fraud, little troll
Anyway the memes blow, doesn't really matter to me, to me

Mama, just killed a debate
Put some HTML on my screen
Pressed “Publish”, now it's seen
Mama, strife has just begun
But now I've gone and rationalised its way
Mama, ooo
Didn't mean to make you cry
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow
Blither on, blither on, as if Zionism’s all that matters

Too late, my crime is fun
Sends shivers down my spine
Brain's aching all the time
Goodbye everybody - I've got to grow
Gotta leave you all behind and face myself
Mama, ooo - (anyway the memes blow)
I don't want to try
I sometimes wish I'd never been boring at all

I see a little silhouetto of a Jew
Zion-Fraud, Zion-Fraud will you do the Geo-Pol Tango
Suicide-belt and nuke-fission - very very on a mission me
David Irving, Theodore Herzl,
Yasser Arafat, Arik Sharon,
Will I ever Figaro - magnifico

But I'm just a poor fraud and no-one takes me seriously
He's just a poor fraud from a fraud fraternity
Spare him his life from this complexity
Easy come easy go - will you let me grow
Bismillah! No - we will not let you grow - let him grow
Bismillah! We will not let you grow - let him grow
Bismillah! We will not let you grow - let me grow
Will not let you grow - let me grow (never)
Never let you grow - let me grow
Never let me grow - ooo
No, no, no, no, no, no, no -
Oh mama-CIA, mama-CIA, mama-CIA let me go
Richard Perle has a prince-of-darkness put aside for me
for me
for me

So you think you can expose me and spit on my lies
So you think you can shove me and leave me to cry
Oh baby - can't do this to me baby
Just gotta get out - just gotta get right outta here

Ooh yeah, ooh yeah
Zion's all that matters
Anyone can see
Zion's all that matters – Zion’s all that matters to me

Anyway the memes blow...

:)

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/q/queen/112599.html
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like Zionazis are a danger to Jews

by Sheepdog Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 9:26 AM


If the killers would only remain by their own shadow
Then the blood pooling from their deeds would only wet the
Ones who began this Zionist chorus of death.
But no, they must scurry into the folds, all the time knowing
Jews world wide will suffer the backlash for this racism.

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obviously dim

by Sheepdog Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 9:41 AM

analysis vs spam
Like we really believe you were 'just happening by' to pick up on the prefab 27 pages of spam to read and respond in immediate reply.

Amazing incredible unbelievable.
Yup.

Lying filth. but that's Zionism for you.
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its, ok, Sheepdog

by Tia Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 10:02 AM

"Amazing incredible unbelievable. "

Why thank you, doggie. Thank you.

Don't be upset that Changeling beat you at songfest. Its ok, doggie. We each have our day in the sun.

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very dim

by Sheepdog Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 10:18 AM

-by Tia Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 1:02 PM

"Amazing incredible unbelievable. "

Why thank you, doggie. Thank you.-

(wow)

Don't even know when you're being addressed as a lying sack o shit.
( no, thank *you* for proving my 'obviously dim' assessment of your racist lying murderous filth,)
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Bad dog

by Tia Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 10:26 AM

"Don't even know when you're being addressed as a lying sack o shit."

And you don't even recognize sarcasm when your nose is rubbed in it.

This "dialog" has deteriorated beyond any useful to either side. I'm outta here.
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Another Intelligent "anti-zionist" heard from

by Schtarker Yid Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 10:26 AM

Another Intelligent "anti-zionist" heard from. Usually when "anti-zionists" get emotional, they drop the"code words" become more open about their anti-semitism.
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"by Changeling Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 11:00 AM "

by Typical Zionist ploy Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 12:55 PM

Zionists often attempt to drown out conversations they can't dominate, by flooding the thread with noise. Long, boring cut and paste screeds such as Changling's 6,330 opus are typical. They are not so much trying to get their message out as they are trying to spoil the thread, and make it unpleasant to participate in.

They also post a lot of just plain gibberish, just to take up space. They often take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author. The yell "anti-Semitism!!!!!!!" at the top of their lungs. They post anti-Semitic propaganda to discredit anti-Zionists and anti-Zionist websites. When that doesn't work, they threaten to "pay a visit". In this very thread they have threatened to both kidnap and kill me. This is *far* from the first time. And, no, I am *not* intimidated.

That's the kind of people they are. And yet they expect you to believe they are not the aggressors, but the victims. They have so little respect for intelligence that they honestly think that you'll fall for it.

That's the kind of people they are. No wonder most of the world despises them. They lie, they steal, they bully, and when that doesn't work, they kill people.

That's the kind of people they are. And as long as Indymedia allows people like that to broadcast their spew on our bandwidth, we will never be able to be taken seriously, either as journalists or as activists.

Throw the racists out.
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actually read the articles?

by Schtarker Yid Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 1:06 PM

Did you actually read the articles? It seems that things like facts and history interfere with your pre-conceived ideology.
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No articles can wash the blood

by throw the racists out Saturday, Apr. 29, 2006 at 1:59 PM


from Israel's hands. They are colonialist oppressors. Their propaganda does not belong on Indymedia bandwidth. It makes us all look soft on racism. It's no different than allowing the Nazis to post their all too similar propaganda, a la http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2005/11/1722251_comment.php#1722299">NC-IMC.
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"by Typical Zionist ploy Friday, Apr. 28, 2006 at 3:55 PM "

by anti-racist Sunday, Apr. 30, 2006 at 4:49 AM

Rabid anti-Zionists often attempt to drown out conversations they can't dominate, by flooding the thread with noise. Long, boring cut and paste screeds such as nessie's long-winded posts are typical. They are not so much trying to get their message out as they are trying to spoil the thread, and make it unpleasant to participate in.

They also post a lot of just plain gibberish, just to take up space. They often take something that a Zionist has written, subtly alter its meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author. The yell "anti-Arabism!!!!!!!" at the top of their lungs. They post anti-Arab propaganda to discredit Zionists and Zionist websites. When that doesn't work, they threaten to "pay a visit". In this very thread they have threatened to both kidnap and kill Zionists. This is *far* from the first time. And, no, we are *not* intimidated.

That's the kind of people they are. And yet they expect you to believe they are not the aggressors, but the poor poo' poo' victims. They have so much contempt for intelligence that they honestly think that you'll fall for it.

That's the kind of people they are. No wonder most of the world despises them. They lie, they steal, they bully, and when that doesn't work, they murder people.

That's the kind of people they are. And as long as Indymedia allows people like "nessie" to broadcast their pernicious racist spew on our bandwidth, we will never be able to be taken seriously, either as activists or people.

Throw the racist anti-Zionists out.
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Goosestep some more for us, touchy Dog

by autoblocked @Indybay Sunday, Apr. 30, 2006 at 4:59 AM

Dog, I don't know if you've had a chance to read this post as it was hidden almost promptly. So here's a repost.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're saying "nessie" falls short of your unblemished Nazi hatred for Jews? Isn't this the correct understanding?

I see your scabrous, rabidly racist mind also liberally employs Nazi epithets repeatedly, such as "cowards with no honor" and "the lowest kind of human garbage". The distance from a red shirt to a brown one isn't too great. Btw, Mr. Oh-so Progressive, what's honor to you? Willingness to engage in one-on-one duels?

Just how far are you willing to go to eradicate us untermenschen? Do tell.

==========================================

PS to the editors:
thanks for letting me back in. Hope you now agree with me that double standards have no place in IMC editing. If 'Sheepdog' is allowed to direct profanity and racist abuse at posters here, then someone like myself must be allowed to respond in kind.
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"Rabid anti-Zionists often attempt to drown out conversations they"

by more noise Sunday, Apr. 30, 2006 at 6:33 AM

They're still trying to jam the anti-Zionist signal with noise:

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it . . .

(snip)
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"Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written"

by Rabid anti-Zionist --> noise Sunday, Apr. 30, 2006 at 6:38 AM

He's still trying to jam the Zionist signal with noise:

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1962248

(snip)

Sometimes he takes something that a Zionist has written, subtly alters its meaning by changing a few words, and posts it . . .

(snip)
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They're still at it.

by no surprise Sunday, Apr. 30, 2006 at 11:58 AM

But, hey, what else can we expect from people so devoid of common decency that they will even collaborate with Nazis:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/04/155160_comment.php#155353
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Like Stalin?

by Schtarker Yid Tuesday, May. 02, 2006 at 7:13 AM

Pretty funny coming from a Stalinist. Or are you still pretending to be anarchist?
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"Schtarker"

by translation Tuesday, May. 02, 2006 at 3:55 PM

http://www.harryc.com/jewish-yiddish.htm

(snip)

Shtarker A thug a hoodlum

(snip)
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nope,

by Sheepdog Tuesday, May. 02, 2006 at 4:24 PM

-You're saying "nessie" falls short of your unblemished Nazi hatred for Jews? Isn't this the correct understanding?-

Understanding?
No actually you're the only one who seems to endanger Jews. but I understand this is what Judas Goats are for.

That's my understanding.
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Almost poignant in its pathetic idiocy

by a goosestepping dog Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 1:36 AM

You're one spec amongst the sands of filth who sit by idly and silently whenever Jews suffer anti-Jewish violence, wherever it occurs. You surely know that your pretense at caring for Jews' safety is fully percieved like the hollow hoax it is.


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yeah, Judas Goats

by Sheepdog Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 1:47 AM

I luv the way this seems to ruffel your fur the wrong way.

But this is really your most vulnerable facet of the propaganda champaign.
Once the majority of sane and reasonable Jews around the world and particularly in America, understand just how your self-serving worship of mammon operates under the guise of Judaism, your kind of parasitic slime will dry up in the light of day.
Dig it.
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your hole deeper

by Keep digging Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 2:00 AM

"mammon"...

Aside from the antisemitic Jewish fringe (e.g. Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon), your rabid Nazi ass in no danger of being mistaken by Jews for someone who seeks good things for them. I stake my life on this claim, not only my reputation.

Isn't it now the point where you're scheduled to drag out the Synagogue of Satan riff?
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you're killing me...

by Sheepdog Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 2:05 AM

can't breath.... laughing ...too ... hard...
wait

wait...


hold on a sec...

ahhh... (chuckle )

did you type this?

-"not only my reputation." -

Good one.
Get back with me on that.
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"no danger of being mistaken by Jews for someone who seeks good things for them."

by a racist is a racist is a racist Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 6:41 AM

Anyone who seeks good things for "Jews" is a racist. It's exactly the same as seeking good things for "Aryans," or "Hutus" or "Serbs."

Non racists seek good things for those Jews, Aryans, Hutus and Serbs who deserve good things, and seek bad things for those who do not.

Only a racist would fail to distinguish between deserving Jews and undeserving Jews.

All Jews are not alike. Some are righteous. Some are evil. Just like any other tribe. They have just as much and just as much responsibility to be judged as individuals as do members of any tribe on earth. Jews are not a special case. Their's is not a special circumstance. They are just another tribe on a planet with thousands of tribes. No tribe is special.
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"just as much and just as much responsibility"

by typo Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 6:47 AM

Sorry. I meant to say, "just as much *right* and just as much responsibility."

And while we're on the subject, by what right do Jews, a minority in Palestine, rule the majority and totally disenfranchise most of them? Bloodline?

That's not a rhetorical question. Neither are we likely to get a straight answer.
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Israel

by Lord Locksley Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 7:02 AM

Isreali Jews may be the 'minority' it what used to be callsed Palestine during the colonial period....but they are the clear majority in what the UN and every map in every Atlas in the world knows as the duly established nation of ISRAEL.....it has no jurisdiction in the other parts of what used to be called Palestine...such as Jordan,Syria,Lebanon...so it is incapable of 'disenfranchisng' Arabs in these areas....but it does have a sizable Arab population within the its boundaries who not only vote but who also sit in the Knesset as well
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"what used to be called Palestine...such as Jordan,Syria,Lebanon"

by another Zionist lie Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 7:59 AM

Jordan, Syria and Lebanon have *never* been part of Palestine. Palestine is shown on the "IsPal" map above as the area in blue, minus the Golan, which is Occupied Syria.

The area in blue is under Zionist military control. Within that area, Arabs who live in Israel "proper" are second class citizens with fewer rights and privileges that Jews. Arabs who live in Gaza and the West Bank have *no* rights. Between them, the Arabs of the West Bank, Gaza and Israel "proper" are a clear majority.

And, no, the IOF has not "withdrawn" from Gaza. They shell and bomb it at will, and with the help of their allies the Quisling Egyptians, control its borders completely, or try to. Fortunately, the brave and clever resistance fighters have learned how to tunnel.
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Lying = oxygen to "nessie"

by autoblocked @Indybay Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 8:09 AM

"Jordan, Syria and Lebanon have *never* been part of Palestine."

Not Jordan? LOL

"Arabs who live in Gaza and the West Bank have *no* rights."

Not at all? Nice try.

"And, no, the IOF has not "withdrawn" from Gaza"

No IDF withdrawal from Gaza just because they shell it? Another buffoonish lie.

These lies alone should prove to all and sundry why "nessie" the anti-Zionist buffoon shouldn't be taken seriously on cyber concerning his anti-Zionism.

There's only one way to make this buffoon quit wasting oxygen: death to "nessie".
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"buffoonish lie"

by heard it before Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 11:02 AM

(1.) An ad hominem is not a rebuttal.

(2.) Calling something a "lie" does not make it untrue.
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For two points and the win

by Tia Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 11:19 AM

Historic (Biblical) Israel extended to both sides of the Jordan river
The original British Mandate included Jordan

Somehow, I trust an Israeli's woking knowledge of Israeli history better than Nessie's.

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not too fond of the Brits either

by Sheepdog Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 11:33 AM

Don't get me started about the Brits. Too bad they make such good motorcycles.
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facts on the ground

by apartheid is apartheid is apartheid Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 12:40 PM

>what the UN and every map in every Atlas in the world knows as the duly established nation of ISRAEL

What the UN and every map in every Atlas in the world knows as the duly established nation of ISRAEL and what, and whom, is controlled by the Zionist military apparatus are two different things.

Apartheid = different standards for Jews, Arab citizens of Israel and non-citizen Arabs under Israeli control.

As for "duly established," so what?

(1.) The UN had no right to give away other people's land.

(2.) Countries come and go.

See:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/06/1746036_comment.php#1746527


>Biblical) Israel extended

So what? Your religious dogma means nothing to the rest of us. Screw your bible. It's a hideous book, full of praises for ethnic cleansing and one atrocity after another.

See:

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/06/1695255_comment.php#1695513


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"by heard it before Tuesday, May. 02, 2006 at 4:34 PM "

by there they go again Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 1:51 PM

They are fundamentally dishonest people:

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.

(snip)
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depends who you ask

by Tia Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 2:00 PM

"What the UN and every map in every Atlas in the world knows as the duly established nation of ISRAEL .......

False- no map in the Middle east includes Israel. No map in any Islamic fundamentalist school or mosque outside of the Middle East includes Israel. Last year, at the Solano Street Fair, the Islamic relations Council had on display, a map without Israel. That was in Berkeley, by the way, land o'tolerance
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"a land that was no people's"

by another Zionoist lie Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 2:03 PM

This is the old "Land without people for a people without land" lie again. Palestine was *never* without people, not in paleolithic times, not when the ancient Habiru showed up, not in 1948, not ever.

The Zionists are foreign invaders. They stole most of the land by force and killed everyone who got in their way, in order to establish a colony, not unlike the one that the French had established in Algeria. It is a typical colonialist enterprise, built from corpses and standing on the back of the native inhabitants. No wonder Americans like Israel. They see a smaller version of their own country, which was also looted from corpses. Every American sleeps on Native graves. Seeing that Israelis do it too makes them feel a little less guilty about the blood on their own hands.

But as we know, if “they do it, too” were a valid excuse, Hitler would be off the hook for killing those six million Jews, because Stalin killed six million Ukrainians.
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more noise

by they're still trying to drown is out Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 5:39 PM

But is it a real Zionist or is it a http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/eliza.txt">bot?
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re: land w/out people

by Tia Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 5:55 PM

From Ziff "The Rape of Palestine" 1938
nice historical source....


"Fully 75% of the area in Jewish hands morever has not known the plough for centuries. The northern colonies in Galilee were built on land rendered impossible for life since roman times because of marsh and endemic disease. Tel Aviv was erected on sand dunes which were considered without monetary value. The great granary, the valley of Jezreel, now nestling so trim and green in the shining sun, wa sso deserted and pestilential when Jews bought it that it was said any bird trying to cross it would fall dead in its flight."




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More Ziff

by MER Wednesday, May. 03, 2006 at 7:03 PM

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 98 16:57:29 CDT
From: MID-EAST REALITIES <MeR@middleeast.org>
Subject: The Rape Of Palestine - 50th "Anniversary""Year
Article: 32417
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Message-ID: <bulk.29858.19980416121808@chumbly.math.missouri.edu>

The Rape of Palestine

The Mid-East Realities,
13 April 1998

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el-Husseini, was appointed by the British, much as Feisal Husseini plays a similar role in Jerusalem today on behalf of the Israelis and Americans.

MER - Washington - April 13 - One always has to be abit suspect with commentary coming from the Israelis these days. The Labor Party/Peace Now crowd are pretty crafty. And the Likud has picked up alot of the P.R. and journalistic tricks as well.

Even so, there are sometimes very interesting columns and editorials in the Israeli press; and as long as one puts them in perspective and remains alert for often subtle biases and slants they can be of considerable interest.

No doubt this recent article by Joel Bainerman has exceptionally appologetic Zionist overtones, more overt than subtle in fact. But even so, there's considerable history here that has been forgotten or "misplaced"; and which should be revisted and repondered today by those seriously involved.

For whatever ones views of the end-result of these past 50 years, and of the "peace process" underway today, there are strong threads of continuity in history and remembering this is of considerable importance to the present.

Were Jews and Arabs destined to hate each other?

By Joel Bainerman

Zichron Yaacov, Israel -- Probably one of the most important books for both Jews and Arabs to read is called "The Rape of Palestine"first published in 1938 by William Ziff by Argus Books in the US. The cover says nothing about who William Ziff is.

The book documents the difference between the overall pro-Jewish sentiments of the British political elite who saw a strong Jewish presence in Palestine as being good for the British empire, and the group of high level anti-Jewish British officials who believed that the Jews would become so powerful (if Britain let them) that they would no longer have to accede to British demands.

The latter group was entirely right. A strong Jewish presence in Palestine meant Jewish national independence which wouldn't serve the British masters the way the Arab puppets did. Arab tribal leaders were corruptible and this was the only way those running Britain's colonial policies could control them. They realized that controlling the Jews was not going to be so as easy. So they placed obstacle after obstacle before any attempts to settle large numbers of Jews in Palestine. The official reason for restricting Jewish immigration was that the "economic capacity of the land"could not support more than a million people. This was a lie, but few challenged the British when they proclaimed it in their various "government commissions."

The book also documents how one-sided the British were in doling out public funds. As the Jews in Palestine increased in number the economy boomed and in l935, the Yishuv, even though only comprising one-third of the residents, were paying 75% of the taxes to the British occupiers. Yet little of that money found its way back into roads or schools serving Jewish towns. Ziff must have gone through nearly every British government archive to document his claims that had the British left Palestine in the late 20's or early 30's, the Jews would have had a state before l948 and which would possibly have been established around (and thriving) before Hitler came to power thus saving the bulk of European Jewry. While no historian has ever blamed the British for the destruction of European Jewry, Ziff's book documents that claim.

Ziff's book (which was published first in l938 but probably took three or four years of research to write) documents how the British "created" the opposition to Zionism and that up until these so-called "radical Arab leaders"came into the picture, most Arab residents of Palestine wanted nothing more than to live in peace and prosperity with the Jews which they believed was their good fortune.

"The Moslem religious leaders, the Mufti, was openly friendly. Throughout Arabia, the chiefs were for the most part distinctly pro-Zionist: and in Palestine the peasantry were delighted at every prospect of Jewish settlement near their villages. Commercial intercourse between Arab and Jew was constant and steady." pp.13

"The Arab National Movement was hated by the huge Levantine population who continued to regard themselves simply as Ottoman subjects, looked to the strong, influential Zionist Organization for sympathy and assistance."

"Hussein of the Hejaz looked to the Zionists for the financial and scientific experience of which the projected Arab state would standly badly in need. In May 1918, Dr. Chaim Weizmann and Hussein of the Hejaz met in Cairo where the latter spoke of mutual cooperation between Jews and Arabs in Palestine. In early 1919 a Treaty of Friendship was signed to provide for "the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab state and the coming Jewish Commonwealth of Palestine."On March 3, l9l9, another Arab leader, Feisal, son of Sherif, wrote: "We wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home."

If Ziff's words are accurate, there was no Arab opposition to Jewish immigration to Palestine at least as far back as l919.

Ziff writes:

"With conscious design the Administration fostered hostility between Arab and Jews. It directly advised the amazed Arabs of Palestine and Egypt to abstain from any concessions to the Jews. It formed the Moslem-Christian Association and used it as a weapon against the Zionists. It instructed astonished Arab young-bloods to the technique and tents (sic) of modern nationalism, in order to resist Jewish 'pretenses.'"

"And in London it contacted reliable anti-Jewish elements to form a liason which has endured to this day. The Arabs were not only instigated and advised, but supplied with funds, and their arguments ghost-written by Englishmen in high places. They proved a good investment."

"Matters came to a head in l920 when Feisal staged a revolt against the French in Damascus, with money and ammunition supplied by the British General Headquarters. He had been proclaimed King by a 'Syrian Congress' which included Palestinians, and which asserted the principle that Palestine was a part of Syria and couldn't be cut off from it."

"Almost simultaneously, in order to show how impossible it was to implement the Balfour Declaration in the face of native hostility, the Generals arranged a pogrom in Jerusalem."

Ziff believed that the stage was set charging that "the riots of April l920 was perfectly timed."He reveals how Arab agitators ran through the Moslem crowds gathered for the Nebi Moussa festival in Jerusalem, urging 'death to the Jews' and that 'the government is with us.'

Ziff discovered that all Jewish policemen had been relieved from duty in the Old City.

He says that such planned riots occured again in April l921 in Jerusalem. Ziff charges that the British Commandant of Police was "conveniently out of the country." The few Jews on the police force had been mysteriously taken off duty for the day. The Arab mob shouted: "Bolshevki! Bolseviki! The Zionists are flooding the country with Bolsheviki!"pp. 20

While many students of the Arab-Israeli conflict have heard the name "the Mufti of Jerusalem" most don't know how the Mufti became "the Mufti." Ziff writes:

"Implicated in the disturbances was a political adventurer named Haj Amin al Husseini. Haj Amin, was sentenced by a British court to fifteen years hard labor. Coveniently allowed to escape by the police, he was a fugitive in Syria. Shortly after, the British then allowed him to return to Palestine where, despite the opposition of the Moslem High Council who regarded him as a hoodlum, Haj Amin was appointed by the British High Commissioner as Grand Mufi of Jerusalem for life."pp. 22

Regarding the Arab pogroms of l929, Alif Beh, an Arab newspaper in Damascus, wrote: "the uprising was the result of British intrigue...the English were looking for an excuse to reject the demands of the Jewish Agency to participate in the administration of the country, and encouraged the Arabs to teach the Jews a lesson."

Regarding Arab views towards Jewish immigration, Ziff quotes Count Carlos Sforza in his books, 'Europe and Europeans': "Syrians of all classes, who had been watching Palestine's development with envious yes, were anxious to have something of the same phenomena duplicated in their country."

This desire is written in the clamorous petition sent to the French in l935 by the inhabitants of Lebanon, begging them to encourage Jewish immigration as that would bring prosperity. Said the Damascus newspaper, "Iissan Alkhar": "We ought to demand Jewish immigration, for through it our situation will be saved."

Sensing that some crude agenda was being played out with their collective destiny, in May l930, the Jerusalem-based Arab newspaper 'Al Iqdam' in wrote: "We are led by a group of men who bargain us away, buying and selling us like cattle. The Arab people have not yet said their last word on the Arab-Jewish question. When this word has been said, it will not be one of hatred, but one of peace and brotherhood, as is suitable for two people who live in one country."

During a seminar of leading Moslems and Christians of Nazareth in March l934, as statement given to the press read: "On behalf of the majority of the property-owners and consumers, we declare that we would welcome Jewish immigration and trust that the enlightened Jews with their financial commercial associations bring."

Ziff is suggesting that the opposition to Jewish immigration to Palestine by Arabs was not nearly as widespread as conventional wisdom and standard history books on the subject has led us to believe. By the time the Peel Commission was in full swing in l937, Arab desires for rapprochment began appearing, there had begun appearing in the press Arab desires for rapprochment with the Jews. From the New York Times of August 5th, l937, we read: "For the first time in the twenty years since the Balfour Declaration, the Arabs openly censured the Palestine Government for never having attempted to bring the two peoples together."

The Arab newspaper 'Falastin,' claimed in an editorial that, "despite British allegations of an unbreachable enmity between Jews and Arabs, we cannot recall a single instance since the British occupation here when they made the slightest effort to bring the Arabs and Jews together. Pre-war Jewish residents lived here peacefully with Arabs for hundreds of years. To this day these Jews, in addition to the Arabs, maintain that if it were not for British policy of divide and rule the Arabs and Jews would again live in Palestine in peace and harmony."

On November 15th, l937 the Arab daily 'Ad-Difaa' asserted that the British Government had categorically rejected all proposals for a round-table discussion between Jews, Arabs and British, through the Jews and Arabs alike were anxious for such a meeting. After talking toall sections of the Arab population, the Near East correspondent for the New York Times reported on November 21st, that their unnaminous cry was "we've suffered enough and we don't wish to have any more trouble. May Allah curse them and cut off the lives of these intruders from the outside who are disturbing our existence."

Pamphlets were distributed in Arab villages throughout Palestine violently attacking Great Britain as being "the cause of their ruin. (pp.104)"

Dr. Gustavo Gutierrez, former President of Cuba's Chamber of Deputies, stated after his visit to the Holy Land in late l936, that he saw "no evidence of friction or disagreement between the Arab and Jewish people in Palestine," and that "if Arabs and Jews were let to their own councils they could settle the Palestine problem wisely and permanently."

Contrary to what history books tell us, there was Arab opposition to British rule - and a genuine desire to live in peace with the Jews - even as late as l937.

Describing the Arab predictment, which has not changed in the six decades since he wrote his book, in the epilogue Ziff states: "The Arabs are compelled to free themselves from the present despotic and feudal regimes under which all the Arab peoples suffer. In Arab countries, despite the paper constitutions, which exist in several of them, there is little in the way of liberty. Poverty and ignorance are endemic."

What is important about Ziff's book is that it was written close to when the events were taking place. It is a version of history that few of us who believe ourselves to be students of the "Arab-Israeli conflict" have ever come across. It is the first revisionist historical account of the role the British played in the modern Middle East in general, and in the Arab-Israeli conflict in specific. Its main premise, that the Arab-Israeli conflict was created and stoked by the British, and isn't the result of ethnic hatred of the participants, is in a sense a revolutionary new perspective in Zionist history.

If nothing more, Ziff's book should encourage the Israeli government to establish a body that aims to change all of the street names in the country that are named after British Mandate personalities. The British government was the reason why it took Israel until l948 to reach independence. Considering the state of the Yishuv's economy in l937, independence then was possible. Had the British not ruled Palestine, by l930 unrestricted Jewish immigration and the hard work and creativity of the new Jewish immigrants would have created an economy twice as large as it was at the time. in 1930. The Arabs themselves acknowledge that they would have participated fully in this unprecedented economic boom.

Instead, the British government created phony Arab "radicals" like Haj Amin, to stoke the conflict. The British government was also to blame for corrupting Arab leaders and conspiring to keep all Arabs poor and their economy undeveloped.

Just as French collaborators and Nazis are still brought before tribunals and charged with "crimes against humanity"so too should members of the British colonial office who directed the overall policy in Mandated Palestine to pit the Jews and the Arabs against each other. As this policy kept the Jews from being able to help their brothers fleeing from Nazi Germany, the crime is also of Genocide.

Joel Bainerman writes on Israeli political and economic affairs and is often published by right-wing Israeli media.

To Subscribe or UnSubscribe from MER email: INFOMER@MiddleEast.Org

MID-EAST REALITIES is published a number of times weekly and the MERTV Program shows weekly on Cable TV.

MID-EAST REALITIES
(c) Copyright 1998

MER may be freely distributed by email and on the Internet so long as there is no editing of any kind. For any print publication, permission in writing is required.

MER@MiddleEast.Org / Fax: 202 362-6965 / Phone: 202 362-5266

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Thank you MER

by Tia Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 4:31 AM

This book is an excellent resource, as it is a historic document, not a revisonist piece, and because it contains extensive footnotes.

Ziff says: "In the case of the peasants who sold to the Jews, with the exceptionof a bare five percent who bettered themself in urban pursuits, all remained on the land. Most of them sold only part of their acres and with the money obtained got out of debt for the first time in their lives. Within the past 6 years the debt of the Arab cultivator has been reduced by 60% while his income has sharply increased. The most solicitous prodding of the Government over the last ten yearshas not been able to bring forth more than 664 Arab families that could come under the definition of displaced."

and how about this.....

"We should expect to find an exodus of Arabs from lands where Jews are settled. But exactly the opposite is true: it is precisely in the vicinity of those Jewish villages that Arab development is most marked. Arab Haifa, profiting from the Jewish boom grew from 1922 to 1936 by 130%, Jaffa by 80% and Jerusalem by 55%...In the vicinity of the Jewish villages Arab workers earn twice the wage paid in other parts of Palestine. "


I've got the book in front of me- it is filled with choice info .
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not too fond of the Brits II

by Sheepdog Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 4:34 AM

-Instead, the British government created phony Arab "radicals" like Haj Amin, to stoke the conflict. The British government was also to blame for corrupting Arab leaders and conspiring to keep all Arabs poor and their economy undeveloped.-

Thanks for the great dig, MER
Middle East Research?
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Bullshit

by what a crock Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 5:02 AM

That Hajj Amin al-Husseini may have been used by the British for their ends doesn't mean he wasn't a genuiine Arab fundamentalist radical.

Yom `Atzma'ut Same'ah! (Happy Independence Day!)
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How interesting it is

by anarchist Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 5:11 AM

that even a blatant propagandist for Zionism like Ziff cannot avoid the plain and simple truth. It is as conquerors that Jews are resisted. As peaceful immigrants, they were were welcome. Until they took up arms against their neighbors, they were welcome. When they were willing to live as equals with the other people of Palestine, they were welcome. Now they are the most despised people on earth. They are so despised, in fact, that hatred against them even spills over onto other, innocent, Jews. No longer when the word "Jew" is spoken do people automatically think of scholars, artists and craftsmen, but of ruthless and arrogant, cold blooded, thieves, liars and murderers. The Zionists have given more ammunition to the anti-Semites of this world than Hitler and Goebbles together. It is innocent Jews who are unjustly hated for the crimes of these racist aggressors.

Truly, Jews, per se, are not the problem. Jewish *nationalism* is the problem. As soon as some Jews decided they had a right to rule Palestine, just because they were Jews, the trouble started. For centuries, there was not a problem. Then came nationalism. Now there is a problem. The problem is nationalism, not ethnicity or religion.

A case can be made that for two millennia, Jews were the most peace loving people on earth. They were certainly the most peace loving people in Europe. In the single most blood stained place on the planet they stood out, not for their prowess at arms, but for their art, their craft, and their learning. Why? They had no country. As soon as some of them decided to form a country, the blood began to flow, and has not stopped until this day.

Nationalism is a curse on humanity. Away with all borders! Down with all nations! Death to the state!
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A bunch of

by anti-Zionist lies Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 5:50 AM

There's no simple and plain truth concerning the land of Israel; if anything, such a truth would be that the above poster is blatantly lying. Jews are resisted whatever status they have. Even if all Jews had been angelic, they still would have been resisted by assorted antisemites. Even long before a Zionist "occupation" of the disputed territories was heard of, when the Jewish immigrants were purchasing their land, the local Jews were being accused of dispossessing and wronging the local Arabs and weren't exactly welcomed. The pre-Zionism Jews were abused on a daily basis and subjected to an institutionalized discrimination system based in Muslim law known as dhimmitude. That is always glossed over by the assorted anti-Zionists an it's inconvenient to their cherished tenets.

Of course, when the Jews took up arms to defend themselves against Arab attacks, they started being accused of aggression and more malicious designs than before. The thought that Jews may defend themselves with arms was, and still is to a large degree, inconceivable to their Arab enemies and anti-Zionists worldwide.

The Jews are the most despised people on earth nowadays thanks to the likes of the above antisemitic poster known as "nessie". Never trust his definition as to who's an "innocent" Jew.

Rational knowledgeable people do not make the boneheaded association "nessie" brings up about the word "Jew". He wants the sheep and the ignorant to think that, though. Anything else compromises his anti-Jewish agenda. Rational folks know there are and always have been good Jews and bad Jews. It is firebreathing anti-Zionists like "nessie" who've given themselves ammo to perform nefarious racist feats like hating 99.99% of American Jews for daring even to support Israel's existence. He covertly wants a final solution to the Jewish "problem". Fortunately though he and his ilk are ineffectual windbags and cannot perpetrate their wish.

Anyone positing Jewish *nationalism* is the problem give themselves away immediately as a racist. It can't be any plainer than that. To deny one ethnic/national group more vehemently and consistently than denying other groups the same the right to self-determination is racist to the core.

The troubles in Palestine began when Muslims insisted in disturbing the peaceful Jewish land purchase and tried to reinforce dhimmi status for both incoming and native Jews. Whoever claims there was no problem for centuries is a bloody shameless liar banking on many's ignorance. This lie has been refuted a billion times but "nessie" will never tire spouting it, because he never cares for inconvenient facts.

If the problem is nationalism, why doesn't "nessie" devote even a fraction of the time he spends on fighting Zionism to oppose Palestinism? Clearly he's playing you for fools.

"In the single most blood stained place on the planet they [the Jews] stood out, not for their prowess at arms, but for their art, their craft, and their learning. Why? They had no country. As soon as some of them decided to form a country, the blood began to flow, and has not stopped until this day. "

- Through little to no fault of their own. That's the part he always leaves out.

"Nationalism is a curse on humanity. Away with all borders! Down with all nations! Death to the state!"

He never specifically cries out against Palestinian nationalism. Ask yourselves why.

Happy independence day!
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big spray

by Sheepdog Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 6:19 AM

No refutation aside from the fact that some unpleasant realities are indeed unpleasant.
We know you don't like the message or the messenger and why.

The reason is nessie makes it clear that you Judas Goats are one of the MAJOR incubators of anti- Jewish sentiment.

These Palestinians who once provided shelter to the refugees from anti-Jewish programs have been grievously maligned and persecuted.
You should be ashamed.

From the way you operate on this news wire I can only imagine how you would operate if you had any instrumentality here.
( shudder )
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A shelter for Jewish refugees? When? Who exactly?

by autoblocked @Indybay Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 6:30 AM

Instead of babbling in discontent, will you please tell me when exactly those "Palestinians" provided the supposed shelter and provide a URL for good measure? Until you do, I'll regard your claim as little more than your usual shit. Before you even try, remember that the non-Palestinian Ottoman Turks controlled Palestine 1517-1917 and prior to that the non-Palestinian Mamelukes from the 13th century till 1517.

"No refutation aside from the fact that some unpleasant realities are indeed unpleasant.
We know you don't like the message or the messenger and why.

"The reason is nessie makes it clear that you Judas Goats are one of the MAJOR incubators of anti- Jewish sentiment.

"From the way you operate on this news wire I can only imagine how you would operate if you had any instrumentality here.
( shudder )"

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn....
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some questions, anarchist

by Tia Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 7:05 AM

Anarchist:"....that even a blatant propagandist for Zionism like Ziff cannot avoid the plain and simple truth. It is as conquerors that Jews are resisted. As peaceful immigrants, they were were welcome. Until they took up arms against their neighbors, they were welcome."

Tia:
1. What knowledge do you have that Ziff was a propagandist? His book is extensively footnoted with census data, historic pieces from the Ottoman era, and legal references. Or is propaganda used to mean "Facts I don't like"?

2. Attacks against the Jews began well before statehood, and well before "occupation".

Anarchist: "Nationalism is a curse on humanity. Away with all borders! Down with all nations! Death to the state!"

Tia:
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace....

Yeah. Wouldn't it be nice? But why does it always start with the elimination of Israel? Why not with the elimination of the beacon of conspicous consumption, Dubai? Maybe all the Indybay folks who espouse no borders and no nations would have more credability if they didn't always START with the elimination of Israel.
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typical Zionist bullsh*t

by heard it before Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 8:51 AM

>What knowledge do you have that Ziff was a propagandist?

He cherry picks his facts to make Zionists look good. This was a lot easier before 1948, but it's still possible, just as it is possible to cherry pick facts to make Nazis look good. Zionists do good things sometimes. So do Nazis. So what? When someone cherry picks facts to make Nazis look good, only fools fail to recognize it as propaganda. Same for Zionists.


>Attacks against the Jews began well before statehood, and well before "occupation".

But they did not begin before Zionists tried to take over. When they were just immigrants, and were willing to live as equals with the other people of Palestine, problems were exceedingly rare. Now they're the norm. Palestine was once a refuge for Jews. Zionists have turned it into a death trap.


>But why does it always start with the elimination of Israel?

This is begging the question. It *doesn't* start with the elimination of Israel. It's just that Israel is the only thing Zionists notice or care about.


>Why not with the elimination of the beacon of conspicous consumption, Dubai?

Israel should be eliminated before Dubai because Dubai is no threat to peace, and does not prey on its neighbors.

But to eliminate Israel without simultaneously eliminating the US and UK is impossible because they are one entity. Israel is an outpost of Anglo-American imperialism. Israelis are the pawns of Anglo-American's rulers.

To eliminate Anglo-America without simultaneously eliminating China and Russia would just replace one empire with two others. No, our uprising must be global and simultaneous. The entire global ruling class must be cast down at once, no matter where the individuals are located. That means we have a lot of organizing and preparation to do. Let's get to it.
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When life gives you cherries, make pie

by Tia Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 9:10 AM

Tia: What knowledge do you have that Ziff was a propagandist?

Nessie: He cherry picks his facts to make Zionists look good.

Tia: This is a straw man argument. Have you read the book? Have you seen the book? If all you have seen are the passages I have copied, how could you draw this conclusion?
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Cherry picked what facts?

by Not a Dhimmi No More! Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 9:10 AM

What facts did Ziff "cherry pick" and what facts do you feel that he ommited? If you can, then refute something.

Or is this just more meaningless, unsupported, "bash Israel" double talk?
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or Cherry strudel....

by Tia Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 9:26 AM

Tia: Oh,man, is this a colossal time sink....

But why does it always start with the elimination of Israel?

This is begging the question. It *doesn't* start with the elimination of Israel. It's just that Israel is the only thing Zionists notice or care about.

Tia: Show me any other post on Indymedia that discusses the specific elimination of any other nation other than Israel or America.


>Why not with the elimination of the beacon of conspicous consumption, Dubai?

Israel should be eliminated before Dubai because Dubai is no threat to peace, and does not prey on its neighbors.

Tia: Iraq invaded Kuwait. Iraq preyed on its neighbor. Now we are destroying Iraq. Does this logic mean you support this current war? Did you supported the first Gulf War? Are you espousing the elimination of Iraq?

. ..No, our uprising must be global and simultaneous.

Tia: Now you make it sound like a utopian dream rather than a realistic and achievable goal.

The entire global ruling class must be cast down at once, no matter where the individuals are located. That means we have a lot of organizing and preparation to do. Let's get to it.

Tia: Has there ever been a society that has existed without a ruling class? Even in our alleged democracy, there is a clear ruling class. Has there ever been a society without a heirachal structure? If we replace the ruling class, aren't the replacements the new ruling class? Why are we to assume that when the well meaning revolutionaries are in control, that they will not be corrupted by their power, and that the situation will not actually change for the mass of humanity?

Incidently, the only sucessful, albeit limited model (aside from cultish utopian societies ) I can recall of non-heirachal structure has been the kibbutzim of Israel.


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A crock of nessiesque tripe

by autoblocked @Indybay Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 9:28 AM

Tia:
What knowledge do you have that Ziff was a propagandist?

Doyle:
"He cherry picks his facts to make Zionists look good. yadda yadda cluck cluck"

Unsubstantiated allegation. You have yet to show how he did that.

Tia: Attacks against the Jews began well before statehood, and well before "occupation".

Doyle:
"But they did not begin before Zionists tried to take over. When they were just immigrants, and were willing to live as equals with the other people of Palestine, problems were exceedingly rare."

Exceedingly rare? That's a bold-faced lie. Note how "nessie" ignores the dhimmi status Jews were subject to -- entailing, among other things, prohibitions on dressing as one pleased, on going up beyond the 7th step leading up to the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron in effect since the 13th century, building synagogues and houses higher than Muslim buildings, bearing witness against Muslims in courts, the obligation to always yield to Muslims the right of passage when a Jew and Muslim crossed ways on dirt paths by veering to the roadside, the prohibition on carrying any arms for self defense, etc. Jews were routinely beaten and spat on at a Muslim's whim. "nessie" deems all these problems and others "exceedingly rare". And it's not like this is the first or even second time he's read these facts. He only utilizes historical facts much more convenient to his case.

Doyle:
"Zionists have turned it [Israel] into a death trap. "

Wrong-o. That's the doing of his favorite Pali Jew rabid racist haters.

Tia: But why does it always start with the elimination of Israel?

Doyle:
"It *doesn't* start with the elimination of Israel. It's just that Israel is the only thing Zionists notice or care about. "

The fact is "nessie" devotes an absurdly inordinate time on "eliminating" Israel. He calls virtually every day for its elimination but never calls for the elimination of Arab national entities at war with Israel. Everybody notices that.

Tia: Why not with the elimination of the beacon of conspicous consumption, Dubai?

Doyle:
"Israel should be eliminated before Dubai because Dubai is no threat to peace, and does not prey on its neighbors. "

Israel doesn't prey on its neighbors. Dubai, a horrifically wasteful state, preys on echo resources and as such is a threat to Earth's echological balance. It also may be funding fundamentalist Islam globally. In that sense it'd be a threat to world peace and stability.

Doyle:
"But to eliminate Israel without simultaneously eliminating the US and UK is impossible because they are one entity. Israel is an outpost of Anglo-American imperialism. Israelis are the pawns of Anglo-American's rulers. "

A distinction must be made between the Israeli govt. and individual citizens. Gee, I don't feel like I'm a pawn of no external political entity. Secondly, Israel still enjoys some degree of independence beyond nominal. Otherwise it wouldn't be able to thumb its nose at GWBush's demand that it roll back its spring 2002 Defensive Shield operation at once, for instance. Thirdly, by claiming Israel's a pawn of US rulers you've inadvertently agreed with the very same contention in the lengthy URL-laden article that refutes the oft-heard accusations that Israel and its AIPAC lobby control the US.

Happy independence day!
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More Zionist propaganda

by so typical Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 9:54 AM

>Show me any other post on Indymedia that discusses the specific elimination of any other nation other than Israel or America.

There's one on this very page. Scroll back up and see for yourselves.


>Iraq invaded Kuwait. Iraq preyed on its neighbor.

No it did not. What Iraq did to to Kuwait was self defense. Kuwait had it coming. It slant drilled and stole Iraqi oil. Also, Iraq at great cost defended Kuwait from Iranian expansionism, and welshed on the debt.



>you make it sound like a utopian dream rather than a realistic and achievable goal.

It's achievable. For the first time in history we have the technology to communicate on a grassroots level, in real time, across the globe. It's the tool we've been waiting for.


>Has there ever been a society that has existed without a ruling class?

There are today. Read *People Without Government: An Anthropology of Anarchy* by Harold Barclay



>I can recall of non-heirachal structure has been the kibbutzim of Israel.

I, too, once fell for the myth of the kibbutz. At twelve, I read Uris and became convinced that the Israelis were a nation of peaceful, communal farmers. Boy was I wrong. But hey, I was twelve. That's how kids think. Grownups study all sides, not just the side of best propagandists. Now I know better. Israel is built from the corpses of Arabs.

Sure there are kibbutzes, but they are a minuscule fraction of Israeli society. And even they are racist aggressors, often among the most militant in the country.

Israel is an atrocity. Its supporters are racists. Their propaganda does not belong on Indymedia. Its presence discredits everything god the IMC does. Redeem Indymedia's honor. Throw the racists out.
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"Kuwait had it coming"?

by Not a Dhimmi No More! Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 10:03 AM

"Kuwait had it coming"? But you "anti-zionists" want to condemn Israel for defending itself?

Wow, the more I learn about "anti-zionists" the more disturbed I realize they are!
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Israel is not "defending itself"

by more Zionist double talk Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 10:16 AM

Israel is aggressing. Israel's very existence is an act of aggression.
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Cherry cider, perhaps?

by Tia Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 10:19 AM


Show me any other post on Indymedia that discusses the specific elimination of any other nation other than Israel or America.

There's one on this very page. Scroll back up and see for yourselves.

Do you mean the Dubai reference that came from me? Thats cheating.

>Iraq invaded Kuwait. Iraq preyed on its neighbor.

No it did not. What Iraq did to to Kuwait was self defense. Kuwait had it coming. It slant drilled and stole Iraqi oil. Also, Iraq at great cost defended Kuwait from Iranian expansionism, and welshed on the debt.

Hmmm. Blaming the victims....seems to be a pattern. Nonetheless, it was an invasion for oil and for profit.

>you make it sound like a utopian dream rather than a realistic and achievable goal.

It's achievable. For the first time in history we have the technology to communicate on a grassroots level, in real time, across the globe. It's the tool we've been waiting for.

Technology is still largely in the hands of the ruling classes.

In "Bridging the Digital Divide: The Impact of Race on Computer Access and Internet Use," Donna Hoffman and Thomas Novak of Vanderbilt University showed that whites were more likely to have a computer at home than blacks. Also disturbing was the fact that white students were twice as likely to have a computer than black students, and whites who didnt have a computer were five times more likely to find another way to use the Web,.
I've lived in a developing country- this divide is even more pronounced outside America.


>Has there ever been a society that has existed without a ruling class?

There are today. Read *People Without Government: An Anthropology of Anarchy* by Harold Barclay

Not available in any nearby library. Closest copy is Santa Clara University. Does your store sell it? ... Will I get shot if I pick up a copy there?

>I can recall of non-heirachal structure has been the kibbutzim of Israel.

I, too, once fell for the myth of the kibbutz. At twelve, I read Uris and became convinced that the Israelis were a nation of peaceful, communal farmers.

They were at one time. Early Israel was largely agrarian.

Sure there are kibbutzes, but they are a minuscule fraction of Israeli society. ..

There are a wide variety of kibbutzim. There is even an arachists kibbutz.


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Death to "nessie"

by anti-racist Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 10:21 AM

Tia: Iraq invaded Kuwait. Iraq preyed on its neighbor.

Doyle:
"No it did not. What Iraq did to to Kuwait was self defense. Kuwait had it coming. "

Ha! Iraqi troops committed wholesale rape of Kuweiti women and pillaged much private property from citizens. So much for self-defense. Or will you claim that was "exceedingly rare"? What a cherry picking clown you are. An ad hom isn't a rebuttal of course.

Tia: Has there ever been a society that has existed without a ruling class?

Doyle: There are today. Read *People Without Government: An Anthropology of Anarchy* by Harold Barclay

I don't know how valid Doyle's claim here is, but in ancient history there was the Israelite nation throughout virtually the entire duration of the Judges period, 1200 - 1025 BC.

Tia: I can recall of non-heirachal structure has been the kibbutzim of Israel.

Me: except every kibbutz had a secretary (and a bursar).


Doyle:
"Israel is built from the corpses of Arabs. "

Hyper-hyperbole.

Doyle:
"Sure there are kibbutzes, but they are a minuscule fraction of Israeli society. And even they are racist aggressors, often among the most militant in the country yak yap hiss ngah "

Translation from nessiesque: whatever doesn't fall in line with his twisted standards of non-racist is a militantly racist aggressive.
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moronicide

by Damn Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 10:36 AM

" Iraqi troops committed wholesale rape of Kuweiti women "
Is that like the mythical plastic shredders?
Please provide some news releases of this crime by Iraqi troops for this more American hobby.
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Hmmm. Cherries jubilee

by Tia Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 10:46 AM

http://www.ejil.org/journal/Vol5/No3/art2.html (A scholarly peer reviewed journal)


"Numerous incidents of women raped in other international and internal armed conflicts can be cited to illustrate this point. During the August 1990 invasion of Kuwait it is estimated that at least 5,000 Kuwaiti women were raped by Iraqi soldiers."
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more Zionist bullsh*t

by don't fall for it Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 11:10 AM

>at least 5,000 Kuwaiti women were raped by Iraqi soldiers.>at least 5,000 Kuwaiti women were raped by Iraqi soldiers.

Yeah, right, and they pulled preemies out of incubators, too. Sure. Any day now. Wanna buy a bridge?

Never believe anything a Zionist says about their enemies. They are incorrigible liars.

No "European Journal" of anything can be trusted on the subject of rape by other people. Europeans have raped, murdered and stole more than any people in history. They are blood thirsty agressors of the first order and the highest degree, and have been for centuries. They're still doing it. They're doing it at this very minute in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Never trust a European. They want your land, your money, your labor and your daughter. In return, they will give you slavery, graves and the bible. They have stolen entire continents and enslaved whole races. They have no grounds for criticizing anyon else, especially their victims.

Besides, even if this claim is true, it's nothing compared to the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who died fending off Iran, a sacrifice for which Kuwaitis should have been extremely grateful.



>Do you mean the Dubai reference that came from me?

Of course not I meant the one titled "how interesting it is".


>Thats cheating.

This isn't a game. This is a war.


>it was an invasion for oil and for profit.

It was revenge for Kuwait's malicious theft and unscrupulous default. Besides, who's to say Kuwait isn't part of Iraq? The Brits!?! They *created* Kuwait out of whole cloth. It has no more right to exist than does any state. States do not exist by right, but by force of arms.


>Technology is still largely in the hands of the ruling classes.

No it's not. We're using it right now.


>Bridging the Digital Divide: The Impact of Race on Computer Access and Internet Use


Anything about the internet that was written more than a few minutes ago is out of date. Internet access is spreading faster print ever did, or telephones, or radio or TV. We'll all live to see it as universal as telephones are today, and then more so.


>Does your store sell it?

It's out of print. It's well worth searching for, though. Try Amazon or eBay.


>Death to "nessie"

They're always welcome to try. In the meantime, we can all assume they're just taking trash. No surprise there.
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"nessie", apologist for aggression, rape and imperialism

by autoblocked @Indybay Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 11:39 AM

>at least 5,000 Kuwaiti women were raped by Iraqi soldiers.>at least 5,000 Kuwaiti women were raped by Iraqi soldiers.

Doyle:
"Yeah, right, and they pulled preemies out of incubators, too. Sure. Any day now. Wanna buy a bridge?

"Never believe anything a Zionist says about their enemies. They are incorrigible liars.

"No "European Journal" of anything can be trusted on the subject of rape by other people. Europeans have raped, murdered and stole more than any people in history. They are blood thirsty agressors of the first order and the highest degree, and have been for centuries. They're still doing it. They're doing it at this very minute in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Never trust a European. They want your land, your money, your labor and your daughter. In return, they will give you slavery, graves and the bible. They have stolen entire continents and enslaved whole races. They have no grounds for criticizing anyon else, especially their victims. "

Doyle has made a slew of arguments that beg the question. Now, even if Europeans and Zionists are the devil incarnates, many people still have the abilities to look beyond nessie's shrieking and hand waving and check the facts out for themselves. His exhortations for people to avoid doing so are super lame.

Doyle:
"Besides, even if this claim is true, it's nothing compared to the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who died fending off Iran, a sacrifice for which Kuwaitis should have been extremely grateful. "

Here you go -- typical nessiesque excusing of rape, stealing property, and aggression. He'll do anything to deflect from Iraq's guilt. But most of us see right through his vain attempts and aren't buying it.


>Thats cheating.

Doyle:
"This isn't a game. This is a war. "

Sorry, you're still dishonest. Humor doesn't conquer all.

>it was an invasion for oil and for profit.

Doyle:
"It was revenge for Kuwait's malicious theft and unscrupulous default. "

Two wrongs don't make a right. If "they did it too" were a valid excuse, Stalin would be off the hook for killiing some 6 million Ukranians just because Hitler murdered 6 million Jews. But then again, you know "nessie" is morally destitute as he'll apologize for evil whenever he thinks he can get away with selective application of morality for his own ends.

Doyle:
"Besides, who's to say Kuwait isn't part of Iraq? The Brits!?! They *created* Kuwait out of whole cloth. It has no more right to exist than does any state. States do not exist by right, but by force of arms. "

What did we expect? He's practically squirming to defend the Iraqi aggression with such irrelevant excuses.


Me: Death to "nessie"

Doyle:
"They're always welcome to try. In the meantime, we can all assume they're just taking trash. No surprise there."

On one hand, I said it was a wish. I've been candid about that.
On the other, notice that "nessie" exhorted a short while ago for everybody to do lots of preparation and organizing to topple the entire global ruling class at once. Which begs the question, how will such a huge clown like "nessie" find the time and the drive to do his share while he's seated at a computer virtually his entire waking time virtually every day posting on Indymedia on subjects that have virtually nothing to do with that? How is it like being the biggest clown around these parts, "nessie"?
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Hi ho cherry oh?

by Tai Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 12:15 PM

Tia: at least 5,000 Kuwaiti women were raped by Iraqi soldiers.

Nessie: Yeah, right, and they pulled preemies out of incubators, too. Sure. Any day now. Wanna buy a bridge?

Never believe anything a Zionist says about their enemies. They are incorrigible liars.

Tia: An ad hominim is not a rebuttal
How about what Amnesty International has to say about it? How about what this book has to say: The Rape of Kuwait: The True Story of Iraqi Atrocities Against a Civilian Population?

Nessie: No "European Journal" of anything can be trusted on the subject of rape by other people. Europeans have raped, murdered and stole more than any people in history.

Tia: If they did it too, were an excuse....you know the rest. Indy media would be a much nicer place if you lived up to your own standards.

Nessie: Never trust a European.

Tia: Whats your ethnic origin? You know, attributing characteristics to a group of people based on the color of their skin or their ethnic orgin, is just so....1950's. I really hoped we were beyond that as a culture.

Nessie: Besides, even if this claim is true, it's nothing compared to the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who died fending off Iran, a sacrifice for which Kuwaitis should have been extremely grateful.

Tia: Progress! Women are often considered yet another of the "spoils of war" by the male ruling classes. History of the world....But what do we expect from you...a man....

Nessie: This isn't a game. This is a war.

Tia: That explains your almost complete lack of humor.

Nessie: Besides, who's to say Kuwait isn't part of Iraq? The Brits!?! They *created* Kuwait out of whole cloth. It has no more right to exist than does any state. States do not exist by right, but by force of arms.

Tia: The entire Middle East is a European invention.


Nessie: Anything about the internet that was written more than a few minutes ago is out of date. Internet access is spreading faster print ever did, or telephones, or radio or TV. We'll all live to see it as universal as telephones are today, and then more so.

Tia: Perhaps, in the long run. But most areas of the developing world are still without electricity. And roads. And potable water. Worldwide, technology and information will remain until the control of the ruling elite at least for the short term

Nessie: It's out of print. It's well worth searching for, though. Try Amazon or eBay.

Tia: A booksellar in Ithaca has new copies- $20.95- most likely publishers "remainders". Reviews indicate it is about small scale, localizedhunter gathering or agarian societies- making these not an appropriate precedent for the scale you are discussing
No comment re: getting shot? I'll take that as an affirmative.

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"'nessie', apologist for aggression, rape and imperialism"

by more Zionist bullsh*t Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 2:29 PM

I never apologized for rape. I merely said I'm skeptical of the numbers, and of anything that comes from the Zionist propaganda mill or their misguided enablers. I believe nothing the Kuwaitis say. They're royalists who keep virtual slaves. People like that can't be trusted to tell the truth, especially about their own guilt.


As for "aggression" and "imperialism," they're begging the question. It was neither. It was self defense.



>Now, even if Europeans and Zionists are the devil incarnates,

That's a straw man, i.e., not what I said, i.e. another Zionist lie.

Really, scroll up and see for yourselves.

While there are, of course, isolated individual exceptions, Europeans as a group can *not* be trusted. Judge them by their own history. They have thousand year track record of murderous expansionism. This is a fact that cannot be denied. That's why, rather than attempt to deny it, the Zionist propaganda mill resorts to logical fallacies instead. A logical fallacy is just another kind of lie. Zionists lie all the time. They have to. There is no honest defense of ethnic cleansing.


>He'll do anything to deflect from Iraq's guilt.

This begs the question by assuming that "Iraq" was guilty in the first place, a *far* from universal analysis. It's also a synecdoche, but that's a separate issue.


>you're still dishonest

That's an unsubstantiated allegation, i.e., more bunk logic. They have failed to prove a single thing I said was factually incorrect.


>Two wrongs don't make a right.

This begs the question by assuming that taking revenge for Kuwait's malicious theft and unscrupulous default *was* wrong. Many people disagree with that. I'm one. It wasn't aggression, either. It was self defense, and totally justified. When somebody robs you, hurt them for it. If you don't, the next time they rob somebody, it's partly your fault.



>clown

They're whistling past the graveyard here. I'm a threat and they know it. I scare them. They are scared of the effect that my writing has, for very good reason. It's effective. If it wasn't, they would be ignoring me, and not mounting such a wide spread campaign against me. That's how I know I'm doing the right thing. Their reaction is living proof.


>You know, attributing characteristics to a group of people based on the color of their skin or their ethnic origin, is just so....1950's. I really hoped we were beyond that as a culture.


This is another straw man. I never said anything about ethnicity. A European is someone from Europe, not an ethnic group. But, like their Nazi mentors before them, the Zionists are so obsessed with ethnicity that they see *everything* in those terms. It says more about who and what they are than I ever could. They're racists. Only racists read the word "European" and thing of ethnicity first. The rest of us think of geography.



>Whats your ethnic origin?

My people were Irish. We're from an island in the Atlantic that was conquered by Europeans. Once they had been thrown out of the Middle East, the European imperialists turned their aggression west. We were among their first victims. When Africa was still free, her cities glittering with gold and her universities the envy of the world, we were already under imperialism's heal for four hundred years. No, we have not forgotten. Neither will we ever forgive. Death to imperialism! Away with all colonies! Globalize the Intifada!
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And he's out

by Tia Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 3:14 PM


I'm a threat and they know it. I scare them.

You know I'm not sacred of you? Figured that out yet? And I'm just a ....girl!

They are scared of the effect that my writing has, for very good reason. It's effective.

Your writing is laughable. We are tormenting you. And you are tormenting us. We probably all could use a more productive hobby. Can the delusions of grandeur. We torment all anti-semites. We are pointing out their hate for the world to see.

I never said anything about ethnicity. A European is someone from Europe, not an ethnic group.

Ok- so the 4 million North African immigrants to France are North Africans, right? Not Europeans? But what if they naturalize? What are they then? And their children that are born in France- are they European? Does the second generation of any immigrant group immediately become racist assholes , or is it a gradual process? Does merely living in Europe cause this? Is it in the water, perhaps?

So a person of color, decended from inhabitants of a different continent is ok or not? Your logic or lack there of escapes me.

Only racists read the word "European" and thing of ethnicity first. The rest of us think of geography.

So , the world according to Nessie seems to think that becoming European is enough- the very act of moving continents condems you. The mind reels.....

****

Chaver- are you sure Nessie is Lee and not Patrick?



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"nessie" the supreme IMC clown

by nessiesque shit run amok Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 3:33 PM

"nessie":
"I never apologized for rape."

He's already lying with a bold face. He supports NAMBLA for one thing, ergo he apologizes for rape ipso facto, even before anything else about him is discussed.

"nessie":
"I merely said I'm skeptical of the numbers, and of anything that comes from the Zionist propaganda mill or their misguided enablers."

Here's the second lie. Scroll up and read his dribble for yourself.

"nessie":
"I believe nothing the Kuwaitis say."

Reality isn't contingent on what you believe. Everyone has at least a few beliefs. So what? As opposed to you, we only care about the verdict of empirical evidence. Your dig at the Kuwaities is irrelevant, not to mention dips into racism as it posits that no Kuwaiti can ever be trusted to tell the truth due to their country's regime nature. Not to mention that the Saddamite Iraqi regime was just as or even more despicable, yet you find no problem at all trusting their side of the story over their enemies'. Disgusting.

"nessie":
"As for "aggression" and "imperialism," they're begging the question. It was neither. It was self defense. "

Here he lies again, fooling noone. C'mon, wave your magic wand and change definitions some more for us.

Me: Now, even if Europeans and Zionists are the devil incarnates,

"nessie":
"While there are, of course, isolated individual exceptions, Europeans as a group can *not* be trusted. Judge them by their own history. They have thousand year track record of murderous expansionism. This is a fact that cannot be denied. That's why, rather than attempt to deny it, the Zionist propaganda mill resorts to logical fallacies instead. A logical fallacy is just another kind of lie. Zionists lie all the time. They have to. There is no honest defense of ethnic cleansing. "

Yaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn. So much motion on the keyboard achieving no refutation at all.

Me: He'll do anything to deflect from Iraq's guilt.

"nessie":
"This begs the question by assuming that "Iraq" was guilty in the first place, a *far* from universal analysis. It's also a synecdoche, but that's a separate issue. "

He's now hiding behind all his other pro-Saddamite counterparts in a feeble attempt to refute the statement of fact of Iraq's guilt in the rape and pillage of Kuwait. We're not falling for it though.

Me: you're still dishonest.

"nessie":
"That's an unsubstantiated allegation, i.e., more bunk logic. They have failed to prove a single thing I said was factually incorrect. "

What a buffoonish denial! Your dishonesty has been shown on this and other IMCs numerous times. That you refuse to accept the evidence is only to expected from someone of your frame of mind. If this weren't so, you'd stay clear of keyboards for the remainder of your life, just as Gehrig told you. You employ two psychological mechanisms of defense to avoid realizing what a total and utter joke you actually are: denial and a deliberate lack of social skills.

Me: Two wrongs don't make a right.

"nessie":
"This begs the question yap yap yap"

Boring. I already dealt with this above in this post.

Me: ["nessie" is a huge clown]

"nessie":
"They're whistling past the graveyard here. I'm a threat and they know it. I scare them. They are scared of the effect that my writing has, for very good reason. It's effective. If it wasn't, they would be ignoring me, and not mounting such a wide spread campaign against me. That's how I know I'm doing the right thing. Their reaction is living proof. "

I've just gotten up from the floor after an uproarious laughter attack... A "threat"?
You're totally clueless about yourself and your abilities. I admit to responding to your crap because this way I get some comic relief that's hard to come by otherwise. You see, very few clowns on your order exist where I reside.


"nessie":
My people were Irish. We're from an island in the Atlantic that was conquered by Europeans. Once they had been thrown out of the Middle East, the European imperialists turned their aggression west. We were among their first victims. When Africa was still free, her cities glittering with gold and her universities the envy of the world, we were already under imperialism's heal for four hundred years. No, we have not forgotten. Neither will we ever forgive. Death to imperialism! Away with all colonies! Globalize the Intifada! "

You know something? Our Roman oppressors are extinct, but some of the descendents of the Arab Muslim imperialist, expansionist, occupying aggressors who ravaged our homeland in the 7th century AD and caused the acute decline of the Jewish populace therein still exist in the land of Israel and are now counted among the Palestinians. We will never totally yield to them nor forgive them as long as they're still trying to steal our historical homeland and are cheered on by "people" like you. That's why we'll keep on resisting both them and you. Both on the ground and in cyber. Due to your unqualified support for the Palestinian forces of darkness you'll never receive any sympathy from me about your Irish plight. And sure enough, you've blown yet another opportunity you had to speak out against Palestinism. Nay, you even added insult to injury and encouraged their intifada while you still live on occupied, stolen Native American land and benefit from some fruits of their labor they were forced to provide. Death to "nessie".
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Pretty sure he's Lee

by autoblocked @Indybay Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 3:54 PM

Mr. "um" of slick anti-Zionist Indybay fame posted last year a screed he had authored in 1993 where the name Lee appears above the piece.

Happy independence day! L'Herut Tziyon.


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out numbered by one

by umpire Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 4:40 PM

cackling chickens and Zionists
making a lot of noise.
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outnumbered and outperformed

by Tia Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 7:33 PM

Yes. Lots of noise and a colossal time sink.
Maybe the saying should be "Those who can, do. Those who can't post on Indymedia".
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blah, blah, blah

by heard it before Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 9:23 PM

If people like me weren't a threat to the Zionists, they wouldn't be telling you we weren't. They be ignoring me. They'd be ignoring all of us. They're not. They're running scared. With Indymedia against them, they're last feeble grip on the left will slip through their fingers. They remember when we supported them. Zionism used to be a left wing cause. Boy were we wrong. And by now, all but a handful of us have realized it. Few things scare the Zionists more than losing the few leftist supporters they have left. The more of the truth about Zionism that Indymedia distributes, the few people on the left will support them. Heck, even some of the right is beginning to question their support. Zionism is in serious trouble. Without American support, Israel isn't viable. They need every Yank on their side they can get. People like me are undermining what support the have on the left and it scares them. They know how many people read me. They know how persuasive the truth can be. So, of course they're scared of us. That's why they try so hard to discredit us with their lies, and their forgeries and their cries of "Anti-Semitism!!!!!!"

If you even wonder how scared they are of me, personally, just look how much time and effort they spend trying discredit me. Google "nessie Indymedia" sometime and see what comes up, and how much of it there is. Remember, anything with my name signed to it that doesn't appear on http://makeashorterlink.com/?C20E2233B">SF-IMC can't be trusted.
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puppets of empire

by history buff Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 9:28 PM

puppets of empire...
recruitingjews.jpg, image/jpeg, 520x800

The Brits, finding themselves short of cannon fodder, realized they could revive David Reubeni's long discarded plan for a "Jew's Crusade."
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It puts me in mind of an old song

by history buff Thursday, May. 04, 2006 at 9:35 PM

http://www.contemplator.com/ireland/mcgrath.html

Mrs. McGrath
http://www.contemplator.com/midimusic/mcgrath.mid">Download Midi File
Lesley Nelson-Burns

Oh, Missis McGrath, the sergeant said,
Would you like to make a soldier out of your son, Ted?
With a scarlet coat, and a three-cocked hat,
Now Missis McGrath, wouldn't you like that?
Wid yer too-ri-aa, fol de diddle aa
Too-ri-oo-ri-oo-ri-aa.

Oh Mrs. McGrath lived by the seashore
For the space of seven long years or more;
Till she saw a big ship sail into the bay,
Here's my son, Ted, wisha, clear the way!
Wid yer too-ri-aa, fol de diddle aa
Too-ri-oo-ri-oo-ri-aa.

Oh, Captain, dear, where have ye been
Have you been in the Meditereen?
Will ye tell me the news of my son, Ted?
Is the poor boy livin', or is he dead?
Wid yer too-ri-aa, fol de diddle aa
Too-ri-oo-ri-oo-ri-aa.

Ah, well up comes Ted without any legs
An in their place he had two wooden pegs,
She kissed him a dozen times or two,
Saying, Holy Moses, 'tisn't you.
Wid yer too-ri-aa, fol de diddle aa
Too-ri-oo-ri-oo-ri-aa.

Oh then were ye drunk, or were ye blind
That ye left your two fine legs behind?
Or was it walkin' upon the sea
Wore your two fine legs from the knees away?
Wid yer too-ri-aa, fol de diddle aa
Too-ri-oo-ri-oo-ri-aa.

Oh, I wasn't drunk and I wasn't blind
But I left my two fine legs behind.
For a cannon ball, on the fifth of May,
Took my two fine legs from the knees away.
Wid yer too-ri-aa, fol de diddle aa
Too-ri-oo-ri-oo-ri-aa.

Oh, Teddy, me boy, the old widow cried,
Yer two fine legs were yer mammy's pride,
Them stumps of a tree wouldn't do at all,
Why didn't ye run from the big cannon ball?
Wid yer too-ri-aa, fol de diddle aa
Too-ri-oo-ri-oo-ri-aa.

All foreign wars I do proclaim
Between Don John and the King of Spain
And by herrins I'll make them rue the time
That they swept the legs from a child of mine.
Wid yer too-ri-aa, fol de diddle aa
Too-ri-oo-ri-oo-ri-aa.
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more pigtail pulling

by Tia Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 2:43 AM

Hmmm. Nessie- you are a target to what is tatamount to teasing, simply because of the size of your ego. No one perceives you as a threat. Sorry. As a member of the local Zionist conspiracy, I would know. If anyone would attempt violence against you or others, I would intercede.

All Gods children have a voice in the choir. Even the sadly misguided ones.

More from Ziff: re the Jewish Brigade:

"In the meanwhile, a brilliant young Russian writer Vladamir Jabotinsky, had been scurrying around in an attempt to organize a legion of Jewish volunteers from the Diapora countries to fight directly under the jewish flag. With rare insight he pointed out that words and promises were soon forgotten and the most enduring Jewish title to the Holy land would come from a direct investment of Jewish Blood under a Jewish flag"

Apparently, many Jews did not agree:

"They put pressure on the British War Office to stop this little impassioned Zionist with the underslung jaw who they believed was jeopardizing their position ....with his lunatic nonsense"

Interesting that then, as in now, there were impassioned disagrreements regarding the best way for the Jewish people to achieve self determination in their ancient homeland.
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thanks for the lyrics

by Skidder&Spoosh Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 6:34 AM

and of course they need about four members of the opposition to tag along to offer " counter entertainment " to each and every post you make there, nessie.

yar

They obviously are going to need more help. Is funding currently available, my next question would be.

you're correct. they need to be shown the door.
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Thanks for the laughs

by autoblocked @Indybay Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 6:55 AM

Your fellow goosetepper "nessie" has been trounced here by any and all his adversaries. We aren't orchestrated by Zionist Central. Each comes and post here of their volition. That you'll never manage to fathom. But we've grown accustomed to it, haven't we. Jusdt as we're long used to your zealous fondness for squelching all dissent. What a shining example of American magnanimity.
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Hey, "autoblocked @Indybay"

by Tia Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 7:22 AM

Do you get "funded"?
I don't get "funded". Strictly volunteer.
I do this for love, not money.
That is the true source of our powers, is it not?
Nefesh yehudi, yes?
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Funded -- hell no

by autoblocked @Indybay Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 7:57 AM

This is a hobby. I'd never accept the limitations the state would impose on my writings. Frankly I don't think official Israel even gives a thought to the IMC network. Maybe just an afterthought insomuch as foreign ministry employees may be aware that some of the people they train as per Angie Tibbs' "scoop" also devote some time to Indymedia.

I suppose I'm pitching in to help counter the ravages wrought large by the ubiquitous Big Oil funded anti-Israel propaganda mill.

It wasn't too long ago that I grew tired of how the ISM malevolents and their ilk were able to trick the Israeli authorities into allowing them into the disputed territories and interfering with Israeli anti-terror activities, reaping propaganda bonanzas for the Palestinians by getting some of their "activists" harmed by Israeli security personnel, all while playing the Israeli legal system to their advantage. While I laud the valiant efforts of folks Lee Kaplan have expended to assist the govt. in containing the pro-Jihadist enablers, I'm deeply dismayed that the Israeli govt. couldn't handle the challenge by itself. But, c'est la vie. I've lived long enough there to not let official Israeli ineptness to shatter me.
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elevating the course of debate

by T'uh Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 8:42 AM

This is from a few years back at good ole Indybay. Yes, its a post from "autoblocked..."
Notice how he intelligently explains current politics through the history of the region?
Notice how insults and ad hominims are kept minimal?
This exchange of opinions is what Indymedia is uniquely qualified for. Its a real time exchange of ideas. Its a good thing.

If folks don't want you to hear what the other side has to say, ask yourself why? What are they afraid of?

Elevating the course of debate: Its all of our responsibility. Its in all of our best interest.

>>>"Why would it be anti-Semitic or even antiZionist to ask how many people were displaced in 1948?"<<<

It would never be. This question, in fact, is an excellent one! The answer depends on the source one relies on. Estimates of the number of Arabs who became refugees that year range from 400,000 to 950,000. The total number of Arabs who evacuated, even according to the British Mandate's statistics, could not have been more than 420,000. This figure conforms roughly also to the figure published from Arab sources, and by the UN.
*But there is a difference* between the total number of Arabs who became refugees and the total # of those among them who were displaced i.e. forced out of their homes and off their property by Jewish/Israeli forces. See, this is where the debate gets real heated. The latter actually ranges from several hundreds to several thousands.

~ Now read how the total of 420,000 has been inflated into more than 900,000:
As soon as the UN Disaster Relief Organization started providing food, shelter, clothing and medical attention to the Arabs who had fled Palestine, a mass of needy Arabs descended on the camps from all over the Arab states. The organization had no machinery for identification; so the arrivals simply signed the register as refugees and received the free aid.
Already in December 1948, the director of the Relief Organization, Sir Rafael Cilento, reported he was feeding 750,000 "refugees." By July 1949 the UN reported a round million.
The Red Cross International Committee joined the party. It pressed for the recognition of any destitute Arab in Palestine as a refugee. Thus about 100,000 were added to the list.
To add a touch of mordant humor, the Red Cross authority wrote about the additional people that: "It would be senseless to force them to abandon their homes to be able to get food as refugees."
So these people stayed at home, received their free services there, and were added to the rolls of the refugees.
Thus - and by other more expectable means of humanistic falsification we have, in the third generation, a large amorphous mass of Arabs, all of them comfortably lumped together in official UN lists as Arab refugees, described as "victims of Israeli aggression" and demanding the right of "return."

~ Was most of the refugee flight voluntary or not?
Foreign newspapermen abounded in the country, in daily contact with all sides - and they did, in fact, write about the flight of the Arabs, but even those most hostile to the Jews saw nothing to suggest that the flight was not voluntary.
In the three months that the major part of the flight took place, the London Times, a newspaper most notably hostile to Zionism, published 11 leading articles on the situation in Palestine, in addition to extensive news reports. In none was there even a remote hint that the Zionists were driving Arabs from their homes.
Even more pertinent: No Arab spokesman made such a charge. At the height of the flight, the Palestinian Arabs' chief representative at the United Nations, Jamal Husseini, made a long political statement (on April 27) that was not lacking in hostility toward the Zionists; he did not mention refugees. Three weeks later (while the flight was still in progress) the secretary-general of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, made a fiercely worded political statement on Palestine; it contained not a word about refugees.
When, four months after the invasion, the prospect of the flightlings' returning "in a few weeks" had faded, there were some recriminations. Emil Ghoury, a member of the Palestinian Arabs' national leadership, said in an interview with the Beirut newspaper, Daily Telegraph: "I don't want to impugn anybody, but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously, and they must share in the solution of the problem."
One of the Arabs who fled later succinctly summarized the story of the refugees in the Jordanian newspaper Al-Difaa: "The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in."
Later, after the fighting began, many Arab villagers who believed the false rumors of a massacre at the village of Deir Yassin "panicked and fled ignominiously before they were threatened by the progress of the war." So wrote the British general Sir John Glubb, who commanded the Transjordanian army. Throughout the war there were two incidents - at Ramle and Lod - in which a number of Arab civilians were driven out of their homes by Israeli soldiers.

~ Do the descendents of the 1948 Arab refugee count as refugees deserving to "return" to Israel?
They don't, not in light of the behavior of the Arab rulers and governments who have been responsible to afford them a chance to become productive citizens in their countries but have deliberately avoided doing so, thus dooming the descendants since the war's end to *automatic* refugee status and *poverty*! They have been responsible for perpetuating a refugee problem they created for the most part and which they could have solved long ago. The UN has been only to happy to help these immoral Arab rulers to perpetuate the problem, so it's no wonder the international agencies listed all of the children born abroad since 1948 as refugees. But that doesn't make something wrong right.

Now I'll deal with your other question.
>>>" Why is it only with Israel that there is this strange attack on freedom of speach where one cant ask simple questions about Palestinians without suddenly being called antiSemitic?"<<<

You're being overly sensitive here. I for one didn't assault freedom of speech. Secondly, you've already done more than ask questions; you've made some statements which you are certain to be facts. And I have shown you your mistaken premises. Thirdly, I don't know how you injected a strawman argument about being called an anti-Semite when I never even attempted to do so. All you should know is that there are anti-Semites that level all kinds of exaggerated claims at Israel concerning the "Palestinian" issue. If you want to make a positive contribution to help combat the anti-Semitic problem in the Left, let me then suggest you do your part to fight anti-Semites away from the so-called progressive Left's ranks.

>>>"Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were forced out of their homes"<<<

Now you've already seen where you were wrong.

>>>"many are still living in refugee camps generations later with no citizenship in any country."<<<

True enough, though I've heard that Jordan has been the only Arab country that has given the refugees living on its soil citizenship. You've already read about the rest of this problem above.

>>>"In any other part of the world one could ask questions about how such refugees could be helped but not when Isreal is involved.... (and people wonder why the US and Israel are hated so much...)"<<<

There's something that has escaped your attention: there's a parallel Jewish refugee problem. 850,000 - 950,000 Jews had to flee Arab countries to Israel during the 1948 independence war. The governments of those countries, which unquestionably are the culprits in this issue, have always refused to compensate those refugees, so Israel intends to compensate the Arab refugees who were indeed kicked out in return for Arab compensation of the Jewish refugees. Seems that as long as the Arab rulers keep abstaining from any willingness to settle the Jewish refugee problem through negotiations, the original 1948 Arab refugees will have to wait too.


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SchtarkerYid

by Indybay Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 1:08 PM

Thats why I plan on attending the Indybay planning meeting this evening. Lets see if they can figure out which one is me.
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SchtarkerYid

by See you tonight! Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 2:24 PM

I think its hysterical that indybay doesn't want me to attend their events. Lets see if you can figure out which one I am at the meeting. You already think that I'm one of "yours." I'd like to hear just how racist these meetings get in person.

See you tonight!
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Hey SchtarkerYid, if you're still reading

by autoblocked @Indybay Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 2:33 PM

I suggest you take a hidden tape or camcorder along so you'll be able to present here and elsewhere proof of their racist anti-Jewish atittudes.
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Uh-oh, Yiddumbo's comin!!

by Indybay better watch out! Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 2:43 PM

They better not talk about their new Panzer divisions or the Indybay/Nazi Death Camp tucked away in that giant bunker under the Muir Woods

Boy is Yiddumbo gonna be disappointed

Watch for new Indybay identities turning up in http://discoverthenetworks.com/

Hey Yidiot, if you need any pointers on entering TARGETS into Horowitz' database for future JDL ziombie rampages, just call Becky Johnson

By the way, the Yiddio-bot shouldn't be too hard to spot: I hear his idea of being "icognito" is dressing up in a plaid shirt and watch cap and playing "psycho-logger." Hey 'dumbo, you should mix it up and dress up as Freddy Krueger this time

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Hey you swaggering stormtrooper 'TW'

by autoblocked @Indybay Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 2:54 PM

Would you mind goosestepping your crypto-Nazi ass right out of here? Aren't you content for having helped destroy already one IMC in California? We've already got our own share of epithet slinging goosesteppers here.
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Wow. The gangs all here.

by Tia Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 5:15 PM

The meeting is Sunday. Yid is confused. Perhaps he is standing on a corner right now, looking menacing at confused Oaklanders.

Its a funny thought.
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"Indybay better watch out!"

by a word to the wise Friday, May. 05, 2006 at 5:38 PM

They already know:

http://www.indybay.org/news/hidden.php?id=1664397#1820852
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Schtarker Yid

by D-mn! Got the date wrong! Saturday, May. 06, 2006 at 8:16 AM

D-mn! Got the date wrong! Still it was nice to see some of the guys from the old days. See you all Sunday!
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re: Would you mind goosestepping your crypto-Nazi ass right out of here?

by TW Saturday, May. 06, 2006 at 5:39 PM

Huh? Leave? Wuddayoofuckinnuts?? Hey editors: you should really think about banning these clowns, they're nothing but trouble. Also, they're traitors intent on destroying the United States that Israel might live. I think Americans have their heads up their assholes, but I want to pop their heads out and clean the shit out of their eyes. These slimes want cut their heads loose from their necks, kick them WAAAY up in there, and sew their assholes shut
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Never mind, Naziboy. Stay

by autoblocked @Indybay Saturday, May. 06, 2006 at 6:09 PM

But I suggest you don't even try appealing to ban us, because your pal "neSSie" puts you to shame in that particular Stalinist niche and the editors won't even give him the time of day.

It was marvelous while I still could tear you a new one every day at Indybay and Santa Cruz before. You really wanna revive that period over here?
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"the editors"

by wrong Saturday, May. 06, 2006 at 8:45 PM

It's not "the editors," but the editors at LA-IMC, and at a fast dwindling handful of sites like Utah-IMC and NC-IMC. These days, more IMCs than not refuse put up with racist propaganda. Little by little, the racists are being pushed out of the Indymedia network. It's about time.
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remember this

by charismatic megafauna Saturday, May. 06, 2006 at 10:54 PM

TW: Also, they're traitors intent on destroying the United States that Israel might live.

So TW is a fifth column conspiracy theorist. Interesting.
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How versatile

by Tia Sunday, May. 07, 2006 at 1:38 AM

"TW is a 5th column conspiracy theorist...."

Apparently. As well as a classic anti-semite. And certifiable. How lucky we are that he followed us here.
Megafauna, do you have any "Raid"?
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How versatile

by Tia Sunday, May. 07, 2006 at 1:39 AM

"TW is a 5th column conspiracy theorist...."

Apparently. As well as a classic anti-semite. And certifiable. How lucky we are that he followed us here.
Megafauna, do you have any "Raid"?
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There's that legendary "nessie" humor

by Tia Sunday, May. 07, 2006 at 6:33 AM

There's that legendary Nessie sense of humor we've heard so much about.
You don't even allow TW on YOUR site- so who are you to criticize?
And yet you two have so much in common. ..
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I KNOW

by not really here... Sunday, May. 07, 2006 at 2:35 PM

Tia: You don't even allow TW on YOUR site- so who are you to criticize?
And yet you two have so much in common. ..

I KNOW!!! It's so sad.

Children, stop fighting amongst yourself, unite in your anti-semitism!

CM

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Good to see such intellectual dialogue

by Zionists really enhance the debate (NOT) Sunday, May. 07, 2006 at 4:20 PM

It's good to know that zio-nazis can troll indymedias nationwide in an effort to vomit their ridiculous propaganda, and always be reduced to sputtering children, muttering insults like it's a Yahoo chatroom.
Leave them to themselves. They can talk about nothing all day long and call everyone antisemitic.
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Neoconservatives and zionists

by Two peas in a pod Sunday, May. 07, 2006 at 4:22 PM

Neoconservatives and...
zionistneoconrightwingloonies.jpg, image/jpeg, 619x581

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classic

by charismatic megafauna Sunday, May. 07, 2006 at 4:43 PM

Leave them to themselves. They can talk about nothing all day long and call everyone antisemitic.

No, just you guys...I mean, cmon, fifth column conspiracy theories are so classic anti-semite...can't you guys come up with some new material?
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this is the Zionist mentality

by typical Monday, May. 08, 2006 at 6:21 AM

>How lucky we are that he followed us here. Megafauna, do you have any "Raid"?

How macabre it is, but not surprising in the least, to hear the Zionists talk wistfully of killing their enemies with a commercial pesticide. Zyklon B was a commercial pesticide. These people are so much like Nazis, it’s scary.
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antisemitic classics

by gehrig Monday, May. 08, 2006 at 8:47 AM

nessie the Jew-hater: "These people are so much like Nazis, it’s scary."

If you mean, singling out Jews and putting yellow stars on them, like in the graphic above, you're right, the "anti-Zionists *wink wink*" do seem to draw on old classic antisemitic tropes with startling frequency.

@%<
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The land of milk and honey post is funny

by Fucking hilarious Monday, May. 08, 2006 at 12:58 PM

That is one of the funniest thing I've seen in weeks!
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U can't hide your Jew hatred

by Truth Monday, May. 08, 2006 at 11:09 PM

If a black family moved into your neighborhood after leagally purchasing their land and home, then antoher one followed, then another and another until they established legally a black family dominated neighborhood, it would racism on the part of the previous white majority to claim those black families "stole" the land from the white people.

Jews in the Zionist movement legally purchased their land and homes piror to 1948. When the UN established Israel in 1948, they established it on Jeish legally owned land and some British government land (notably the worthless Negev). An Arab state was also established, but was absorbed by
Jordan and Egypt without objections from the "Palestinian" Arabs.

5 Arab armies attacked Israel in 1948. Of 27 Jewish settlements in Judea and Samaria and Gaza, all were overrun and destroyed by Arab armies in that ar. In 1967 Israel came back and reestablished them. By the way, the Nazis and Arabs were close allies against the Jews during WW2.

Leftist radicals who recite rhetoric and revisionist history against "Zionists" recite classical Stalinist and Soviet propaganda against Jews perceived as the "rich capitalists." They jump in bed with Arabs because they fund their dying radical socialist agendas in the US with their oil money (a product of capitalism). Quoting from Malcolm X about making revolution "by any means necessary" (Malcolm was also a "Muslim") they seel the destruction of the Jews as a symbol of Western capitalism and the status quo.

These are the facts. The "anti-Zionists," even the Jewish ones, are simply radical socialists masturbating themselves they are making revolution
and creating an egalitairan system with no hierarchy that is anti-capitalist as well.

These are the people in Indymedia, and they are such a bore. Also visit http://www.dafka.org .
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that is the anti-Zionist mentality

by typical Tuesday, May. 09, 2006 at 12:58 AM

>How lucky we are that he followed us here. Megafauna, do you have any "Raid"?

How macabre it is, but not surprising in the least, to hear the rabid anti-Zionists talk wistfully of killing their enemies with a commercial pesticide. Zyklon B was a commercial pesticide. These anti-Zionists are so much like Nazis, it’s scary.
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more noise

by there they go again Tuesday, May. 09, 2006 at 6:53 AM

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.

(snip)
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more complaints

by there he goes again Tuesday, May. 09, 2006 at 7:46 AM

http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1962248

(snip)

Sometimes he takes something that a Zionist has written, subtly alters its meaning by changing a few words, and posts it under the name of the original author.

(snip)
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so predictibale

by more noise Tuesday, May. 09, 2006 at 8:00 AM

Notice how, when the Zionists can't deal with the irrefutable charge of racism against them, they resort to trying to drown it out with noise, lies, and attacks on the messenger. They're like little children who, upon realizing they have lost a game, kick over the board and scream.

This alone proves how illigetimate their cause is. A legitimate cause could be defended with mature honesty. Were their cause legitimate, they wouldn't be resorting to puerils tantrums and transparant lies. They'd be telling you the truth, in a calm and logical fashion. Alas, though, the truth is not their friend.
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the waiting is the hardest part...

by Tia Tuesday, May. 09, 2006 at 8:26 AM

"Zionists can't deal with the irrefutable charge of racism against them...."

Well, we are still waiting for you to respond to Gehrig's charge of racism against YOU.

One Mississippi, Two Mississippi......
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so very predictibale

by yet more noise Tuesday, May. 09, 2006 at 8:33 AM

Notice how, when the rabid anti-Zionists can't deal with the irrefutable charge of racism against them, they resort to trying to drown it out with noise, lies, and attacks on the messenger. They're like infants who, upon realizing they have lost a game, kick over the board and scream.

This alone proves how illigetimate their cause is. A legitimate cause could be defended with mature honesty. Were their cause legitimate, they wouldn't be resorting to puerile tantrums, poisonous vitriol and transparant lies. They'd be telling you the truth, in a calm and logical fashion. Alas, though, the truth is not their friend.
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"Gehrig's charge of racism against YOU"

by history buff Tuesday, May. 09, 2006 at 9:36 AM

I've responded to this repeatedly, for years. They don't like the answer because it is anthetical to their racist world view. So either they're pretending it didn't happen and hoping you wont notice they're lying, or they really didn't notice. Which is more likely?
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hold the oscar, fellahs

by gehrig Tuesday, May. 09, 2006 at 9:38 AM

That little stump speech of nessie's would sure be more impressive if it weren't obvious that he's incapable of answering this question:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/04/155160_comment.php

and must use every possible rhetorical device he knows in order to cover up his awkward silence.

Hey, nessie, step up to the plate. Is it one or two?

@%<
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"yet more noise"

by bot or not? Tuesday, May. 09, 2006 at 9:41 AM

Maybe this isn't the work of a puerile mentality. Maybe it's the work of a bot. Bots have been getting mighty clever lately:

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/eliza.txt
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"history buff"

by bot or not? Tuesday, May. 09, 2006 at 9:48 AM

Maybe this isn't the work of a puerile mentality. Maybe it's the work of a bot. Bots have been getting mighty clever lately:

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/eliza.txt
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Stop zionist terrorists

by AKA "IDF" Friday, May. 12, 2006 at 5:02 PM

Just plop a bomb down on one of their zionist nazi training camps.
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Try it yourself, Charlie.

by temporarily unblocked@Indybay Saturday, May. 13, 2006 at 3:34 AM

Why do you demand others go out on a limb to make your Final Solution fantasy come true? Goosestep on over to Israel and try.

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noise

by there they go again Saturday, May. 13, 2006 at 5:51 AM

See:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/151186_comment.php#156647
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Disracting noise

by there he goes again Saturday, May. 13, 2006 at 6:02 AM

See:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/151186_comment.php#156654
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Disracting noise

by there he goes again Saturday, May. 13, 2006 at 6:05 AM

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/151186_comment.php#156654
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translated from nessie-ese

by gehrig Saturday, May. 13, 2006 at 6:37 AM

nessie: "noise"

translation: "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. nothing to see here, folks, move along."

@%<
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Support the resistance

by Give 'em hell! Saturday, May. 13, 2006 at 12:51 PM

Support the resistan...
zionistpigs.jpgrgrlvo.jpg, image/jpeg, 300x450

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The Muslim Brotherhood "project"

by toady Sunday, May. 21, 2006 at 8:53 AM

One might be led to think that if international law enforcement authorities and Western intelligence agencies had discovered a twenty-year old document revealing a top-secret plan developed by the oldest Islamist organization with one of the most extensive terror networks in the world to launch a program of “cultural invasion” and eventual conquest of the West that virtually mirrors the tactics used by Islamists for more than two decades, that such news would scream from headlines published on the front pages and above the fold of the New York Times, Washington Post, London Times, Le Monde, Bild, and La Repubblica.

If that’s what you might think, you would be wrong.

In fact, such a document was recovered in a raid by Swiss authorities in November 2001, two months after the horror of 9/11. Since that time information about this document, known in counterterrorism circles as “The Project”, and discussion regarding its content has been limited to the top-secret world of Western intelligence communities. Only through the work of an intrepid Swiss journalist, Sylvain Besson of Le Temps, and his book published in October 2005 in France, La conquête de l'Occident: Le projet secret des Islamistes (The Conquest of the West: The Islamists' Secret Project), has information regarding The Project finally been made public. One Western official cited by Besson has described The Project as “a totalitarian ideology of infiltration which represents, in the end, the greatest danger for European societies.”


Now FrontPage readers will be the first to be able to read the complete English translation of The Project.

What Western intelligence authorities know about The Project begins with the raid of a luxurious villa in Campione, Switzerland on November 7, 2001. The target of the raid was Youssef Nada, director of the Al-Taqwa Bank of Lugano, who has had active association with the Muslim Brotherhood for more than 50 years and who admitted to being one of the organization’s international leaders. The Muslim Brotherhood, regarded as the oldest and one of the most important Islamist movements in the world, was founded by Hasan al-Banna in 1928 and dedicated to the credo, “Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur’an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.”

The raid was conducted by Swiss law enforcement at the request of the White House in the initial crackdown on terrorist finances in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. US and Swiss investigators had been looking at Al-Taqwa’s involvement in money laundering and funding a wide range of Islamic terrorist groups, including Al-Qaeda, HAMAS (the Palestinian affiliate of the Muslim Brotherhood), the Algerian GIA, and the Tunisian Ennahdah.

Included in the documents seized during the raid of Nada’s Swiss villa was a 14-page plan written in Arabic and dated December 1, 1982, which outlines a 12-point strategy to “establish an Islamic government on earth” – identified as The Project. According to testimony given to Swiss authorities by Nada, the unsigned document was prepared by “Islamic researchers” associated with the Muslim Brotherhood.

What makes The Project so different from the standard “Death of America! Death to Israel!” and “Establish the global caliphate!” Islamist rhetoric is that it represents a flexible, multi-phased, long-term approach to the “cultural invasion” of the West. Calling for the utilization of various tactics, ranging from immigration, infiltration, surveillance, propaganda, protest, deception, political legitimacy and terrorism, The Project has served for more than two decades as the Muslim Brotherhood “master plan”. As can be seen in a number of examples throughout Europe – including the political recognition of parallel Islamist government organizations in Sweden, the recent “cartoon” jihad in Denmark, the Parisian car-burning intifada last November, and the 7/7 terrorist attacks in London – the plan outlined in The Project has been overwhelmingly successful.

Rather than focusing on terrorism as the sole method of group action, as is the case with Al-Qaeda, in perfect postmodern fashion the use of terror falls into a multiplicity of options available to progressively infiltrate, confront, and eventually establish Islamic domination over the West. The following tactics and techniques are among the many recommendations made in The Project:

Networking and coordinating actions between likeminded Islamist organizations;
Avoiding open alliances with known terrorist organizations and individuals to maintain the appearance of “moderation”;
Infiltrating and taking over existing Muslim organizations to realign them towards the Muslim Brotherhood’s collective goals;
Using deception to mask the intended goals of Islamist actions, as long as it doesn’t conflict with shari’a law;
Avoiding social conflicts with Westerners locally, nationally or globally, that might damage the long-term ability to expand the Islamist powerbase in the West or provoke a lash back against Muslims;
Establishing financial networks to fund the work of conversion of the West, including the support of full-time administrators and workers;
Conducting surveillance, obtaining data, and establishing collection and data storage capabilities;
Putting into place a watchdog system for monitoring Western media to warn Muslims of “international plots fomented against them”;
Cultivating an Islamist intellectual community, including the establishment of think-tanks and advocacy groups, and publishing “academic” studies, to legitimize Islamist positions and to chronicle the history of Islamist movements;
Developing a comprehensive 100-year plan to advance Islamist ideology throughout the world;
Balancing international objectives with local flexibility;
Building extensive social networks of schools, hospitals and charitable organizations dedicated to Islamist ideals so that contact with the movement for Muslims in the West is constant;
Involving ideologically committed Muslims in democratically-elected institutions on all levels in the West, including government, NGOs, private organizations and labor unions;
Instrumentally using existing Western institutions until they can be converted and put into service of Islam;
Drafting Islamic constitutions, laws and policies for eventual implementation;
Avoiding conflict within the Islamist movements on all levels, including the development of processes for conflict resolution;
Instituting alliances with Western “progressive” organizations that share similar goals;
Creating autonomous “security forces” to protect Muslims in the West;
Inflaming violence and keeping Muslims living in the West “in a jihad frame of mind”;
Supporting jihad movements across the Muslim world through preaching, propaganda, personnel, funding, and technical and operational support;
Making the Palestinian cause a global wedge issue for Muslims;
Adopting the total liberation of Palestine from Israel and the creation of an Islamic state as a keystone in the plan for global Islamic domination;
Instigating a constant campaign to incite hatred by Muslims against Jews and rejecting any discussions of conciliation or coexistence with them;
Actively creating jihad terror cells within Palestine;
Linking the terrorist activities in Palestine with the global terror movement;
Collecting sufficient funds to indefinitely perpetuate and support jihad around the world;
In reading The Project, it should be kept in mind that it was drafted in 1982 when current tensions and terrorist activities in the Middle East were still very nascent. In many respects, The Project is extremely prescient for outlining the bulk of Islamist action, whether by “moderate” Islamist organizations or outright terror groups, over the past two decades.

At present, most of what is publicly known about The Project is the result of Sylvain Besson’s investigative work, including his book and a related article published last October in the Swiss daily, Le Temps, L'islamisme à la conquête du monde (Islamism and the Conquest of the World), profiling his book, which is only available in a French-language edition. At least one Egyptian newspaper, Al-Mussawar, published the entire Arabic text of The Project last November.

In the English-language press, the attention paid to Besson’s revelation of The Project has been almost non-existent. The only mention found in a mainstream media publication in the US has been as a secondary item in an article in the Weekly Standard (February 20, 2006) by Olivier Guitta, The Cartoon Jihad. The most extensive commentary on The Project has been by an American researcher and journalist living in London, Scott Burgess, who has posted his analysis of the document on his blog, The Daily Ablution. Along with his commentary, an English translation of the French text of The Project was serialized in December (Parts I, II, III, IV, V, Conclusion). The complete English translation prepared by Mr. Burgess is presented in its entirety here with his permission.

The lack of public discussion about The Project notwithstanding, the document and the plan it outlines has been the subject of considerable discussion amongst the Western intelligence agencies. One US counterterrorism official who spoke with Besson about The Project, and who is cited in Guitta’s Weekly Standard article, is current White House terrorism czar, Juan Zarate. Calling The Project a Muslim Brotherhood master plan for “spreading their political ideology,” Zarate expressed concerns to Besson because “the Muslim Brotherhood is a group that worries us not because it deals with philosophical or ideological ideas but because it defends the use of violence against civilians.”

One renowned international scholar of Islamist movements who also spoke with Besson, Reuven Paz, talked about The Project in its historical context:

The Project was part of the charter of the international organization of the Muslim Brotherhood, which was official established on July 29, 1982. It reflects a vast plan which was revived in the 1960s, with the immigration of Brotherhood intellectuals, principally Syrian and Egyptians, into Europe.

As Paz notes, The Project was drafted by the Muslim Brotherhood as part of its rechartering process in 1982, a time that marks an upswing in its organizational expansion internationally, as well as a turning point in the alternating periods of repression and toleration by the Egyptian government. In 1952, the organization played a critical support role to the Free Officers Movement led by Gamal Abdul Nasser, which overthrew King Faruq, but quickly fell out of favor with the new revolutionary regime because of Nasser’s refusal to follow the Muslim Brotherhood’s call to institute an ideologically committed Islamic state. At various times since the July Revolution in 1952, the Brotherhood has regularly been banned and its leaders killed and imprisoned by Egyptian authorities.

Since it was rechartered in 1982, the Muslim Brotherhood has spread its network across the Middle East, Europe, and even America. At home in Egypt, parliamentary elections in 2005 saw the Muslim Brotherhood winning 20 percent of the available legislative seats, comprising the largest opposition party block. Its Palestinian affiliate, known to the world as HAMAS, recently gained control of the Palestinian Authority after elections secured for them 74 of 132 seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council. Its Syrian branch has historically been the largest organized group opposing the Assad regime, and the organization also has affiliates in Jordan, Sudan, and Iraq. In the US, the Muslim Brotherhood is primarily represented by the Muslim American Society (MAS).

Since its formation, the Muslim Brotherhood has advocated the use of terrorism as a means of advancing its agenda of global Islamic domination. But as the largest popular radical movement in the Islamic world, it has attracted many leading Islamist intellectuals. Included among this group of Muslim Brotherhood intellectuals is Youssef Qaradawi, an Egyptian-born, Qatar-based Islamist cleric.

As one of the leading Muslim Brotherhood spiritual figures and radical Islamic preachers (who has his own weekly program on Al-Jazeera), Qaradawi has been one of the leading apologists of suicide bombings in Israel and terrorism against Western interests in the Middle East. Both Sylvain Besson and Scott Burgess provide extensive comparisons between Qaradawi’s publication, Priorities of the Islamic Movement in the Coming Phase, published in 1990, and The Project, which predates Qaradawi’s Priorities by eight years. They note the striking similarities in the language used and the plans and methods both documents advocate. It is speculated that The Project was either used by Qaradawi as a template for his own work, or that he had a hand in its drafting in 1982. Perhaps coincidentally, Qaradawi was the fourth largest shareholder in the Al-Taqwa Bank of Lugano, the director of which, Youssef Nada, was the individual in whose possession The Project was found. Since 1999, Qaradawi has been banned from entering the US as a result of his connections to terrorist organizations and his outspoken advocacy of terrorism.

For those who have read The Project, what is most troubling is not that Islamists have developed a plan for global dominance; it has been assumed by experts that Islamist organizations and terrorist groups have been operating off an agreed-upon set of general principles, networks and methodology. What is startling is how effectively the Islamist plan for conquest outlined in The Project has been implemented by Muslims in the West for more than two decades. Equally troubling is the ideology that lies behind the plan: inciting hatred and violence against Jewish populations around the world; the deliberate co-opting and subversion of Western public and private institutions; its recommendation of a policy of deliberate escalating confrontation by Muslims living in the West against their neighbors and fellow-citizens; the acceptance of terrorism as a legitimate option for achieving their ends and the inevitable reality of jihad against non-Muslims; and its ultimate goal of forcibly instituting the Islamic rule of the caliphate by shari’a in the West, and eventually the whole world.

If the experience over the past quarter of a century seen in Europe and the US is any indication, the “Islamic researchers” who drafted The Project more than two decades ago must be pleased to see their long-term plan to conquer the West and to see the Green flag of Islam raised over its citizens realized so rapidly, efficiently and completely. If Islamists are equally successful in the years to come, Westerners ought to enjoy their personal and political freedoms while they last.
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HISTORY of Israel & "Palestine"

by toady Sunday, May. 21, 2006 at 10:25 AM

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history, israel, zionism, Israel, Palestine, jerusalem, British Mandate, manditory, Jewish, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, peace process, oslo accords, maps, history israel, history palestine, history, geography, refugees, palestinian refugees, ehud barak, barak, Rabin, Yitzhak Rabin, Dayan, Moshe Dayan, Peace Now, Middle East Conflict


Israel + Jordan = "Pal estine" Before 1923

Take a close look at this PRESENT DAY MAP of the Middle East in which you can see that 22 Arab and/or Muslim [Iran is not considered Arab] nations completely engulf Israel. If someone can explain to me how "expansionist Israel" has "taken over" the Middle East, please email me! The Arab countries occupy 640 times the land mass as does Israel and outnumber the Jews of Israel by nearly fifty to one. So much for Arab propaganda!

Now notice the TOTAL area of Israel and Jordan. This was referred to as "Palestine" and mandated under British administration following World War I (see next map below). How convenient that today's Arab propagandists forget that land east of the Jordan River was also part of "Palestine" and is, in fact, the Arab-Palestinian State!





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From 1517-1917 Turkey's Ottoman Empire controlled a vast Arab empire, a portion of which is today Lebanon, Syria, and Palestine. During World War I (1914-1918), Turkey supported Germany. When Germany was defeated, so were the Turks. In 1916 control of the southern portion of their Ottoman Empire was "mandated" to France and Britain under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned (mandated) to France... and "Palestine" (today's Jordan, Israel and "West Bank") was mandated to Great Britain.
Because no other peoples had ever established a national homeland in "Palestine" since the Jews had done it 2,000 years before, the British "looked favorably" upon the creation of a Jewish National Homeland throughout ALL of Palestine. The Jews had already begun mass immigration into Palestine in the 1880's in an effort to rid the land of swamps and malaria and prepare for the rebirth of Israel. This Jewish effort to revitalize the land attracted an equally large immigration of Arabs from neighboring areas who were drawn by employment opportunities and healthier living conditions. There was never any attempt to "rid" the area of what few Arabs there or those Arab masses that immigrated into this area along with the Jews!



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In 1923, the British divided the "Palestine" portion of the Ottoman Empire into two administrative districts. Jews would be permitted only west of the Jordan river. In effect, the British had "chopped off" 75% of the originally proposed Jewish Palestinian homeland to form an Arab Palestinian nation called Trans-Jordan (meaning "across the Jordan River"). This territory east of the Jordan River was given to Emir Abdullah (from Hejaz, now Saudi Arabia) who was not even an Arab-"Palestinian!" This portion of Palestine was renamed Trans-Jordan. Trans-Jordan and would again be renamed "Jordan" in 1946. In other words, the eastern 3/4 of Palestine would be renamed TWICE, in effect, erasing all connection to the name "Palestine!" However, the bottom line is that the Palestinian Arabs had THEIR "Arab Palestinian" homeland. The remaining 25% of Palestine (now WEST of the Jordan River) was to be the Jewish Palestinian homeland. However, sharing was not part of the Arab psychological makeup then nor now.
Encouraged and incited by growing Arab nationalism throughout the Middle East, the Arabs of that small remaining Palestinian territory west of the Jordan River launched never-ending murderous attacks upon the Jewish Palestinians in an effort to drive them out. Most terrifying were the Hebron massacres of 1929 and later during the 1936-39 "Arab Revolt." The British at first tried to maintain order but soon (due to the large oil deposits being discovered throughout the Arab Middle East) turned a blind eye. It became painfully clear to the Palestinian Jews that they must fight the Arabs AND drive out the British.



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The Palestinian Jews were forced to form an organized defense against the Arabs Palestinians.... thus was formed the Hagana, the beginnings of the Israeli Defense Forces [IDF]. There was also a Jewish underground called the Irgun led by Menachem Begin (who later became Prime Minister of Israel). Besides fighting the Arabs, the Irgun was instrumental in driving out the pro-Arab British. Finally in 1947 the British had enough and turned the Palestine matter over to the United Nations.
The 1947 U.N. Resolution 181 partition plan was to divide the remaining 25% of Palestine into a Jewish Palestinian State and a SECOND Arab Palestinian State (Trans-Jordan being the first) based upon population concentrations. The Jewish Palestinians accepted... the Arab Palestinians rejected. The Arabs still wanted ALL of Palestine... both east AND west of the Jordan River.

Our Palestinian Cousins started the '48 war, and in so doing released the warlike appetites of a nation of survivors, a people with no place to run, who had repressed their rage for millennia, and had now earned full title to it!

On May 14, 1948 the "Palestinian" Jews finally declared their own State of Israel and became "Israelis." On the next day, seven neighboring Arab armies... Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen... invaded Israel. Most of the Arabs living within the boundaries of the newly declared "ISRAEL" were encouraged to leave by the invading Arab armies to facilitate the slaughter of the Jews and were promised to be given all Jewish property after the victorious Arab armies won the war. The truth is that 70% of the Arab Palestinians who left in 1948 – perhaps 300,000 to 400,000 of them – never saw an Israeli soldier! They did not flee because they feared Jewish thugs, but because of a rational and reasonable calculus: the Jews will be exterminated; we will get out of the way while that messy and dangerous business goes forward, and we will return afterwards to reclaim our homes, and to inherit those nice Jewish properties as well. They guessed wrong; and the Arab Palestinians are still tortured by the residual shame of their flight. Their shame is so great because in their eyes running from Jews was like running from women. So much for the blatant lie about Jews throwing out all the [Palestinian] Arabs!

The remaining 30% either (1) saw for themselves that these Jews would fight and die for their new nation and decided to pack up and leave or (2) were driven off the land as a normal consequence of war.

When the 19 month war ended, Israel survived despite a 1% loss of its entire population! Those Arabs who did not flee became today's Israeli-Arab citizens. Those who fled became the seeds of the first wave of "Palestinian Arab refugees."

The Arab propagandists and apologists almost never mentioned that in 1948, Arab armies launched a war against a one-day-old Israel. Instead he focused on the main consequence of that war: the creation of Arab refugees, stating that Israel "short of genocide" expelled 800,000 of them. This not only disagrees with UN estimates of a bit over 400,000 refugees but also ignores the fact that most of the Arabs/Palestinians were encouraged to leave by the Arab World itself!




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The end result of the 1948-49 Israeli War of Independence was the creation of a Jewish State slightly larger than that which was proposed by the 1947 United Nations Resolution 181. What remained of that almost-created second Arab Palestinian State was gobbled up by (1) Egypt (occupying the Gaza Strip) and by (2) Trans-Jordan (occupying Judea-Samaria (a.k.a. the "West Bank" of the Jordan River) and Jerusalem. In the next year (1950) Trans-Jordan formally merged this West Bank territory into itself and granted all those "Palestinian" Arabs living there Jordanian citizenship. Since Trans-Jordan was then no longer confined to one side of the Jordan River, it renamed itself simply "Jordan." In the final analysis, the Arabs of Palestine ended up with nearly 85% of the original territory of Palestine... called Jordan but in reality their ARAB "Palestinian state! But that was still not 100% and thus the conflict between Arab and Jew for "Palestine" would continue through four more wars and continuous Arab terrorist attacks upon the Israeli citizenry. It continues to this very day.
From 1949-67 when all of Judea-Samaria [West Bank & Jerusalem] and Gaza ... were 100% under Arab [Jordanian & Egyptian] control, no effort was EVER made to create a second Palestinian State for the Arabs living there. Surely you do not expect Israel to now provide these same Arabs with their own country when their fellow Arabs failed to do so! And isn't it curious how Arafat and his PLO (formed in 1964) discovered their "ancient" identity and a need for "self-determination" and "human dignity" on this very same West Bank ONLY AFTER Israel regained this territory (three years later in 1967) following Jordan's attempt attempt to destroy Israel! Why was no request ever made upon King Hussein of Jordan by the Arabs living on the West Bank when he occupied it? Is it logical that the PLO was formed in 1964 to regain the lands they would lose three years later in 1967? This sort of logic makes sense only to those who who have not learned that the PLO was formed to DESTROY Israel. And that is STILL their goal! A cosmetic name change from PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) to PA (Palestinian Authority) does not change the stripes on THIS tiger!


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Throughout much of May 1967, the Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian armies mobilized along Israel's narrow and seemingly indefensible borders in preparation for a massive invasion to eliminate the State of Israel. The battle cry heard throughout the Arab world was then, as it continues to be... "Slaughter the Jews" and "Throw the Jews into the Sea!" But the Jews of Israel, remembering 2,000 years of being butchered, gassed, burned and skinned (eg. The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, the Arab rampages of early Palestine and particularly the Holocaust), planned and executed a perfect pre-emptive strike against Egypt. Within two hours the Egyptian Air Force did not exist... most of its planes destroyed while still on the runways! Unaware that the Egyptians had no more air force, King Hussein of Jordan, launched his attack from the his West Bank into Israel's belly while Syrian troops prepared to descend down the Golan Heights high ground into northern Israel.

Now for some facts about "occupation." Firstly, the Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians lost Gaza, the West Bank and Golan Heights (respectively) by participating in a failed attempt at genocide against the Children of Israel. Had Israel lost this 1967 defensive war, the Arab-Palestinians and their Arab allies would have raped, butchered or driven out every Israeli they could get their hands on and gobbled up all of Israel. Now, 35+ years later and despite the fact that Israel won a war BROUGHT UPON THEM, the Israelis are still willing to allow the Arab-Palestinians to have a state on much of the West Bank and Gaza if only they will stop sending their suicide/homicide bombers into the heart of Israel! (Talk about misplaced compassion!)

From 1948 to 1967, Egypt ruled Gaza, Syria ruled the Golan Heights, while Jordan ruled the West Bank. They could have set up independent Arab-Palestinian states in any or all of those territories, but they didn't even consider it. Instead, in 1967 they used the Golan Heights, Gaza and the West bank to launch a war that was unambiguously aimed at destroying Israel, which is how Israel came into possession of those territories in the first place.



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After ONLY six days of air, sea and hand-to-hand ground warfare, Israel defeated all three Arab armies along three separate fronts, taking control of the entire Sinai Desert from Egypt, the 37mile x 12mile Golan Heights from Syria and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem and its Old City) from Jordan. The God of Israel was surely watching over His children! Most importantly was the return to Israel of its holy 3,000 year old capital city of Jerusalem along the western edge of the West Bank... the same Jerusalem from which all Jews had been denied access for the 19 years (1948-1967) following Jordan's seizure and control over it following the first Arab-Israeli War of 1948-9.
Unfortunately, the world saw things differently and considered Israel an "occupier" of this disputed "West Bank" and the Gaza Strip along with the 850,000 Palestinian Arabs living there. These Arabs would refer to themselves as "refugees" and joined the masses of refugees from the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948-9. Once again Israel was forced to fight a battle for survival and, sadly, once again Palestinian [in reality, Jordanian and Egyptian] Arabs becoming refugees by their own actions, the actions of their leaders and from the actions of fellow Arabs from neighboring states!
ISRAEL SCREWS UP TOO!

Israel was responsible for bringing about some of its own problems. The Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza Strip were packed and ready to leave following their 1967 defeat. Suddenly the victorious one-eyed IDF General Moshe Dayan persuaded them to stay. This singular act stunned no one more than the Arab enemy himself who could not believe such an incredible manifestation of Jewish madness! After all, the Arabs knew what THEY would have done to the Jews if they had won! Dayan's plan was to educate them, offer them modern medical treatment, provide them with employment both in the West Bank, Gaza AND inside Israel Proper itself ... living amongst each other in hopes of building bridges to the Arab world. Israel is now paying dearly for this typically naive "Leftist" gesture. That "bridge" led to two Intifadas and world-wide Arab-Palestinian terrorism. From a frightened and defeated enemy, these "Palestinian" Arabs under Israel's jurisdiction turned into a confident, hateful and dangerous enemy now on their way toward forming a terrorist state determined to destroy Israel!


Note: When people say Jordan (first called Trans-Jordan) is an Arab-"Palestinian" State, they are correct! Jordan accounts for 3/4 of Palestine's original land mass. Though they may call themselves "Jordanians," they are culturally, ethnically, historically and religiously no different than the Arab-"Palestinians" on the "West Bank." Even the flag of Jordan and the flag of the proposed 2nd Arab-Palestinian state on the West Bank / Gaza look almost identical. So, if the Arab-Palestinians and Jordanians think of themselves as one and the same, why should WE fall for the lie that the Arab Palestinians west of the Jordan River are any different from the Jordanian Arabs on its eastern shore?


Jordanian Flag

Proposed Palestinian Flag






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Usually when one side starts a war and loses both the war AND some territory, no one on the planet would expect the winner to give back anything! This not only sounds preposterous, it IS preposterous! But the Jews (I hate to admit) had such an insane obsession of wanting the world to love them that they were willing to give back the entire Sinai Desert (oil fields, air bases and endless miles of security buffer) to Egypt for a piece of paper. Thus, in 1982 Egypt regained their Sinai and Israel lost a massive buffer against any future Egyptian aggression! Thus far, Egypt has not aggressed against Israel militarily; however, the basest, anti-Semitic vile to come out of Egypt is not unlike the worse of Nazi anti-Jewish propaganda! This 1982 Camp David Peace Accord has to be the coldest peace deal in history!
Israel still occupies Syria's Golan Heights which, prior to the 1967 war, had been by Syria used solely for terrorist incursions into and artillery bombardment upon Israel's northeastern settlements. The Golan should never be given back to Israel's most vicious enemy! And of course, Israel still "occupies" the West Bank with its ONE MILLION TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND and Gaza with its EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND "Palestinian" Arabs. Had Israel done to these Arabs what the Arabs would have done to the Jews had THEY won, she would have expelled these hostile Arabs and made it officially part of a Greater Israel! But by remaining an "occupier," Israel set herself up for a campaign of vicious propaganda, the scope and intensity of which the world has never before seen!



..

More on "Palestinian Nationalism
and the
Real War Against Israel...

The Middle East war is not now and never was a conflict between Israelis/Jews on the one hand and Palestinians on the other. In fact, the Arab-"Palestinians", while currently the perpetrators of most of the anti-Jewish atrocities, were never a very important part of the conflict. In fact, before about 1970, virtually no one in the world considered the Middle East conflict to be one between Israelis and Palestinians.
The term "Palestinian" itself had referred to Israeli Jews back in the 1940s, and had been slowly deconstructed and redefined to refer to the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza. The Middle East Conflict was always a war by Arabs against Jews, not a conflict between Israelis and "Palestinians." The war was repackaged as a conflict between Jews and Palestinians as a public relations gimmick by the Arab fascist regimes. These regimes had never had any interest in "Palestinians," in creating a "Palestinian" state, or in "Palestinian nationalism" before 1967. That is because Palestinian nationalism did not and DOES NOT exist. The Palestinians were a regional group of Arabs having virtually no cultural nor national distinctive traits separating them from Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians. They are all basically Arabs!.

The bulk of what are called "Palestinian Arabs" are members of families who migrated into the Land of Israel beginning in the late 19th century. Palestinian nationalism is a mislabeling of Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism exists, although it is closely bound up with Islamic nationalism and even Islamism. Palestinian nationalism, however, is a phantom. It is nothing more than genocidal hatred of Jews!

The Arab assaults and aggressions against Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1968, and 1973 had nothing to do with Palestinians. The Palestinian terror campaign would itself be easy to suppress today and eradicate if the Middle East conflict were really a Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Israel would simply obliterate the terrorists and expel their supporters to Syria and Lebanon. The Middle East war continues because it is really an Arab-Israeli war, not an Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is also in large part a war between barbarism and civilization. In many ways an Islamic religious jihad against the Jews.


.
HISTORY
of
Israel & "Palestine"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

history, israel, zionism, Israel, Palestine, jerusalem, British Mandate, manditory, Jewish, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, peace process, oslo accords, maps, history israel, history palestine, history, geography, refugees, palestinian refugees, ehud barak, barak, Rabin, Yitzhak Rabin, Dayan, Moshe Dayan, Peace Now, Middle East Conflict


Israel + Jordan = "Pal estine" Before 1923

Take a close look at this PRESENT DAY MAP of the Middle East in which you can see that 22 Arab and/or Muslim [Iran is not considered Arab] nations completely engulf Israel. If someone can explain to me how "expansionist Israel" has "taken over" the Middle East, please email me! The Arab countries occupy 640 times the land mass as does Israel and outnumber the Jews of Israel by nearly fifty to one. So much for Arab propaganda!

Now notice the TOTAL area of Israel and Jordan. This was referred to as "Palestine" and mandated under British administration following World War I (see next map below). How convenient that today's Arab propagandists forget that land east of the Jordan River was also part of "Palestine" and is, in fact, the Arab-Palestinian State!





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From 1517-1917 Turkey's Ottoman Empire controlled a vast Arab empire, a portion of which is today Lebanon, Syria, and Palestine. During World War I (1914-1918), Turkey supported Germany. When Germany was defeated, so were the Turks. In 1916 control of the southern portion of their Ottoman Empire was "mandated" to France and Britain under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned (mandated) to France... and "Palestine" (today's Jordan, Israel and "West Bank") was mandated to Great Britain.
Because no other peoples had ever established a national homeland in "Palestine" since the Jews had done it 2,000 years before, the British "looked favorably" upon the creation of a Jewish National Homeland throughout ALL of Palestine. The Jews had already begun mass immigration into Palestine in the 1880's in an effort to rid the land of swamps and malaria and prepare for the rebirth of Israel. This Jewish effort to revitalize the land attracted an equally large immigration of Arabs from neighboring areas who were drawn by employment opportunities and healthier living conditions. There was never any attempt to "rid" the area of what few Arabs there or those Arab masses that immigrated into this area along with the Jews!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1923, the British divided the "Palestine" portion of the Ottoman Empire into two administrative districts. Jews would be permitted only west of the Jordan river. In effect, the British had "chopped off" 75% of the originally proposed Jewish Palestinian homeland to form an Arab Palestinian nation called Trans-Jordan (meaning "across the Jordan River"). This territory east of the Jordan River was given to Emir Abdullah (from Hejaz, now Saudi Arabia) who was not even an Arab-"Palestinian!" This portion of Palestine was renamed Trans-Jordan. Trans-Jordan and would again be renamed "Jordan" in 1946. In other words, the eastern 3/4 of Palestine would be renamed TWICE, in effect, erasing all connection to the name "Palestine!" However, the bottom line is that the Palestinian Arabs had THEIR "Arab Palestinian" homeland. The remaining 25% of Palestine (now WEST of the Jordan River) was to be the Jewish Palestinian homeland. However, sharing was not part of the Arab psychological makeup then nor now.
Encouraged and incited by growing Arab nationalism throughout the Middle East, the Arabs of that small remaining Palestinian territory west of the Jordan River launched never-ending murderous attacks upon the Jewish Palestinians in an effort to drive them out. Most terrifying were the Hebron massacres of 1929 and later during the 1936-39 "Arab Revolt." The British at first tried to maintain order but soon (due to the large oil deposits being discovered throughout the Arab Middle East) turned a blind eye. It became painfully clear to the Palestinian Jews that they must fight the Arabs AND drive out the British.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Palestinian Jews were forced to form an organized defense against the Arabs Palestinians.... thus was formed the Hagana, the beginnings of the Israeli Defense Forces [IDF]. There was also a Jewish underground called the Irgun led by Menachem Begin (who later became Prime Minister of Israel). Besides fighting the Arabs, the Irgun was instrumental in driving out the pro-Arab British. Finally in 1947 the British had enough and turned the Palestine matter over to the United Nations.
The 1947 U.N. Resolution 181 partition plan was to divide the remaining 25% of Palestine into a Jewish Palestinian State and a SECOND Arab Palestinian State (Trans-Jordan being the first) based upon population concentrations. The Jewish Palestinians accepted... the Arab Palestinians rejected. The Arabs still wanted ALL of Palestine... both east AND west of the Jordan River.

Our Palestinian Cousins started the '48 war, and in so doing released the warlike appetites of a nation of survivors, a people with no place to run, who had repressed their rage for millennia, and had now earned full title to it!

On May 14, 1948 the "Palestinian" Jews finally declared their own State of Israel and became "Israelis." On the next day, seven neighboring Arab armies... Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen... invaded Israel. Most of the Arabs living within the boundaries of the newly declared "ISRAEL" were encouraged to leave by the invading Arab armies to facilitate the slaughter of the Jews and were promised to be given all Jewish property after the victorious Arab armies won the war. The truth is that 70% of the Arab Palestinians who left in 1948 – perhaps 300,000 to 400,000 of them – never saw an Israeli soldier! They did not flee because they feared Jewish thugs, but because of a rational and reasonable calculus: the Jews will be exterminated; we will get out of the way while that messy and dangerous business goes forward, and we will return afterwards to reclaim our homes, and to inherit those nice Jewish properties as well. They guessed wrong; and the Arab Palestinians are still tortured by the residual shame of their flight. Their shame is so great because in their eyes running from Jews was like running from women. So much for the blatant lie about Jews throwing out all the [Palestinian] Arabs!

The remaining 30% either (1) saw for themselves that these Jews would fight and die for their new nation and decided to pack up and leave or (2) were driven off the land as a normal consequence of war.

When the 19 month war ended, Israel survived despite a 1% loss of its entire population! Those Arabs who did not flee became today's Israeli-Arab citizens. Those who fled became the seeds of the first wave of "Palestinian Arab refugees."

The Arab propagandists and apologists almost never mentioned that in 1948, Arab armies launched a war against a one-day-old Israel. Instead he focused on the main consequence of that war: the creation of Arab refugees, stating that Israel "short of genocide" expelled 800,000 of them. This not only disagrees with UN estimates of a bit over 400,000 refugees but also ignores the fact that most of the Arabs/Palestinians were encouraged to leave by the Arab World itself!




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The end result of the 1948-49 Israeli War of Independence was the creation of a Jewish State slightly larger than that which was proposed by the 1947 United Nations Resolution 181. What remained of that almost-created second Arab Palestinian State was gobbled up by (1) Egypt (occupying the Gaza Strip) and by (2) Trans-Jordan (occupying Judea-Samaria (a.k.a. the "West Bank" of the Jordan River) and Jerusalem. In the next year (1950) Trans-Jordan formally merged this West Bank territory into itself and granted all those "Palestinian" Arabs living there Jordanian citizenship. Since Trans-Jordan was then no longer confined to one side of the Jordan River, it renamed itself simply "Jordan." In the final analysis, the Arabs of Palestine ended up with nearly 85% of the original territory of Palestine... called Jordan but in reality their ARAB "Palestinian state! But that was still not 100% and thus the conflict between Arab and Jew for "Palestine" would continue through four more wars and continuous Arab terrorist attacks upon the Israeli citizenry. It continues to this very day.
From 1949-67 when all of Judea-Samaria [West Bank & Jerusalem] and Gaza ... were 100% under Arab [Jordanian & Egyptian] control, no effort was EVER made to create a second Palestinian State for the Arabs living there. Surely you do not expect Israel to now provide these same Arabs with their own country when their fellow Arabs failed to do so! And isn't it curious how Arafat and his PLO (formed in 1964) discovered their "ancient" identity and a need for "self-determination" and "human dignity" on this very same West Bank ONLY AFTER Israel regained this territory (three years later in 1967) following Jordan's attempt attempt to destroy Israel! Why was no request ever made upon King Hussein of Jordan by the Arabs living on the West Bank when he occupied it? Is it logical that the PLO was formed in 1964 to regain the lands they would lose three years later in 1967? This sort of logic makes sense only to those who who have not learned that the PLO was formed to DESTROY Israel. And that is STILL their goal! A cosmetic name change from PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) to PA (Palestinian Authority) does not change the stripes on THIS tiger!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Throughout much of May 1967, the Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian armies mobilized along Israel's narrow and seemingly indefensible borders in preparation for a massive invasion to eliminate the State of Israel. The battle cry heard throughout the Arab world was then, as it continues to be... "Slaughter the Jews" and "Throw the Jews into the Sea!" But the Jews of Israel, remembering 2,000 years of being butchered, gassed, burned and skinned (eg. The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, the Arab rampages of early Palestine and particularly the Holocaust), planned and executed a perfect pre-emptive strike against Egypt. Within two hours the Egyptian Air Force did not exist... most of its planes destroyed while still on the runways! Unaware that the Egyptians had no more air force, King Hussein of Jordan, launched his attack from the his West Bank into Israel's belly while Syrian troops prepared to descend down the Golan Heights high ground into northern Israel.

Now for some facts about "occupation." Firstly, the Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians lost Gaza, the West Bank and Golan Heights (respectively) by participating in a failed attempt at genocide against the Children of Israel. Had Israel lost this 1967 defensive war, the Arab-Palestinians and their Arab allies would have raped, butchered or driven out every Israeli they could get their hands on and gobbled up all of Israel. Now, 35+ years later and despite the fact that Israel won a war BROUGHT UPON THEM, the Israelis are still willing to allow the Arab-Palestinians to have a state on much of the West Bank and Gaza if only they will stop sending their suicide/homicide bombers into the heart of Israel! (Talk about misplaced compassion!)

From 1948 to 1967, Egypt ruled Gaza, Syria ruled the Golan Heights, while Jordan ruled the West Bank. They could have set up independent Arab-Palestinian states in any or all of those territories, but they didn't even consider it. Instead, in 1967 they used the Golan Heights, Gaza and the West bank to launch a war that was unambiguously aimed at destroying Israel, which is how Israel came into possession of those territories in the first place.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After ONLY six days of air, sea and hand-to-hand ground warfare, Israel defeated all three Arab armies along three separate fronts, taking control of the entire Sinai Desert from Egypt, the 37mile x 12mile Golan Heights from Syria and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem and its Old City) from Jordan. The God of Israel was surely watching over His children! Most importantly was the return to Israel of its holy 3,000 year old capital city of Jerusalem along the western edge of the West Bank... the same Jerusalem from which all Jews had been denied access for the 19 years (1948-1967) following Jordan's seizure and control over it following the first Arab-Israeli War of 1948-9.
Unfortunately, the world saw things differently and considered Israel an "occupier" of this disputed "West Bank" and the Gaza Strip along with the 850,000 Palestinian Arabs living there. These Arabs would refer to themselves as "refugees" and joined the masses of refugees from the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948-9. Once again Israel was forced to fight a battle for survival and, sadly, once again Palestinian [in reality, Jordanian and Egyptian] Arabs becoming refugees by their own actions, the actions of their leaders and from the actions of fellow Arabs from neighboring states!
ISRAEL SCREWS UP TOO!

Israel was responsible for bringing about some of its own problems. The Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza Strip were packed and ready to leave following their 1967 defeat. Suddenly the victorious one-eyed IDF General Moshe Dayan persuaded them to stay. This singular act stunned no one more than the Arab enemy himself who could not believe such an incredible manifestation of Jewish madness! After all, the Arabs knew what THEY would have done to the Jews if they had won! Dayan's plan was to educate them, offer them modern medical treatment, provide them with employment both in the West Bank, Gaza AND inside Israel Proper itself ... living amongst each other in hopes of building bridges to the Arab world. Israel is now paying dearly for this typically naive "Leftist" gesture. That "bridge" led to two Intifadas and world-wide Arab-Palestinian terrorism. From a frightened and defeated enemy, these "Palestinian" Arabs under Israel's jurisdiction turned into a confident, hateful and dangerous enemy now on their way toward forming a terrorist state determined to destroy Israel!


Note: When people say Jordan (first called Trans-Jordan) is an Arab-"Palestinian" State, they are correct! Jordan accounts for 3/4 of Palestine's original land mass. Though they may call themselves "Jordanians," they are culturally, ethnically, historically and religiously no different than the Arab-"Palestinians" on the "West Bank." Even the flag of Jordan and the flag of the proposed 2nd Arab-Palestinian state on the West Bank / Gaza look almost identical. So, if the Arab-Palestinians and Jordanians think of themselves as one and the same, why should WE fall for the lie that the Arab Palestinians west of the Jordan River are any different from the Jordanian Arabs on its eastern shore?


Jordanian Flag

Proposed Palestinian Flag






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Usually when one side starts a war and loses both the war AND some territory, no one on the planet would expect the winner to give back anything! This not only sounds preposterous, it IS preposterous! But the Jews (I hate to admit) had such an insane obsession of wanting the world to love them that they were willing to give back the entire Sinai Desert (oil fields, air bases and endless miles of security buffer) to Egypt for a piece of paper. Thus, in 1982 Egypt regained their Sinai and Israel lost a massive buffer against any future Egyptian aggression! Thus far, Egypt has not aggressed against Israel militarily; however, the basest, anti-Semitic vile to come out of Egypt is not unlike the worse of Nazi anti-Jewish propaganda! This 1982 Camp David Peace Accord has to be the coldest peace deal in history!
Israel still occupies Syria's Golan Heights which, prior to the 1967 war, had been by Syria used solely for terrorist incursions into and artillery bombardment upon Israel's northeastern settlements. The Golan should never be given back to Israel's most vicious enemy! And of course, Israel still "occupies" the West Bank with its ONE MILLION TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND and Gaza with its EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND "Palestinian" Arabs. Had Israel done to these Arabs what the Arabs would have done to the Jews had THEY won, she would have expelled these hostile Arabs and made it officially part of a Greater Israel! But by remaining an "occupier," Israel set herself up for a campaign of vicious propaganda, the scope and intensity of which the world has never before seen!



..

More on "Palestinian Nationalism
and the
Real War Against Israel...

The Middle East war is not now and never was a conflict between Israelis/Jews on the one hand and Palestinians on the other. In fact, the Arab-"Palestinians", while currently the perpetrators of most of the anti-Jewish atrocities, were never a very important part of the conflict. In fact, before about 1970, virtually no one in the world considered the Middle East conflict to be one between Israelis and Palestinians.
The term "Palestinian" itself had referred to Israeli Jews back in the 1940s, and had been slowly deconstructed and redefined to refer to the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza. The Middle East Conflict was always a war by Arabs against Jews, not a conflict between Israelis and "Palestinians." The war was repackaged as a conflict between Jews and Palestinians as a public relations gimmick by the Arab fascist regimes. These regimes had never had any interest in "Palestinians," in creating a "Palestinian" state, or in "Palestinian nationalism" before 1967. That is because Palestinian nationalism did not and DOES NOT exist. The Palestinians were a regional group of Arabs having virtually no cultural nor national distinctive traits separating them from Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians. They are all basically Arabs!.

The bulk of what are called "Palestinian Arabs" are members of families who migrated into the Land of Israel beginning in the late 19th century. Palestinian nationalism is a mislabeling of Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism exists, although it is closely bound up with Islamic nationalism and even Islamism. Palestinian nationalism, however, is a phantom. It is nothing more than genocidal hatred of Jews!

The Arab assaults and aggressions against Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1968, and 1973 had nothing to do with Palestinians. The Palestinian terror campaign would itself be easy to suppress today and eradicate if the Middle East conflict were really a Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Israel would simply obliterate the terrorists and expel their supporters to Syria and Lebanon. The Middle East war continues because it is really an Arab-Israeli war, not an Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is also in large part a war between barbarism and civilization. In many ways an Islamic religious jihad against the Jews.

. HISTORY
of
Israel & "Palestine"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

history, israel, zionism, Israel, Palestine, jerusalem, British Mandate, manditory, Jewish, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, peace process, oslo accords, maps, history israel, history palestine, history, geography, refugees, palestinian refugees, ehud barak, barak, Rabin, Yitzhak Rabin, Dayan, Moshe Dayan, Peace Now, Middle East Conflict


Israel + Jordan = "Pal estine" Before 1923

Take a close look at this PRESENT DAY MAP of the Middle East in which you can see that 22 Arab and/or Muslim [Iran is not considered Arab] nations completely engulf Israel. If someone can explain to me how "expansionist Israel" has "taken over" the Middle East, please email me! The Arab countries occupy 640 times the land mass as does Israel and outnumber the Jews of Israel by nearly fifty to one. So much for Arab propaganda!

Now notice the TOTAL area of Israel and Jordan. This was referred to as "Palestine" and mandated under British administration following World War I (see next map below). How convenient that today's Arab propagandists forget that land east of the Jordan River was also part of "Palestine" and is, in fact, the Arab-Palestinian State!





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From 1517-1917 Turkey's Ottoman Empire controlled a vast Arab empire, a portion of which is today Lebanon, Syria, and Palestine. During World War I (1914-1918), Turkey supported Germany. When Germany was defeated, so were the Turks. In 1916 control of the southern portion of their Ottoman Empire was "mandated" to France and Britain under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned (mandated) to France... and "Palestine" (today's Jordan, Israel and "West Bank") was mandated to Great Britain.
Because no other peoples had ever established a national homeland in "Palestine" since the Jews had done it 2,000 years before, the British "looked favorably" upon the creation of a Jewish National Homeland throughout ALL of Palestine. The Jews had already begun mass immigration into Palestine in the 1880's in an effort to rid the land of swamps and malaria and prepare for the rebirth of Israel. This Jewish effort to revitalize the land attracted an equally large immigration of Arabs from neighboring areas who were drawn by employment opportunities and healthier living conditions. There was never any attempt to "rid" the area of what few Arabs there or those Arab masses that immigrated into this area along with the Jews!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1923, the British divided the "Palestine" portion of the Ottoman Empire into two administrative districts. Jews would be permitted only west of the Jordan river. In effect, the British had "chopped off" 75% of the originally proposed Jewish Palestinian homeland to form an Arab Palestinian nation called Trans-Jordan (meaning "across the Jordan River"). This territory east of the Jordan River was given to Emir Abdullah (from Hejaz, now Saudi Arabia) who was not even an Arab-"Palestinian!" This portion of Palestine was renamed Trans-Jordan. Trans-Jordan and would again be renamed "Jordan" in 1946. In other words, the eastern 3/4 of Palestine would be renamed TWICE, in effect, erasing all connection to the name "Palestine!" However, the bottom line is that the Palestinian Arabs had THEIR "Arab Palestinian" homeland. The remaining 25% of Palestine (now WEST of the Jordan River) was to be the Jewish Palestinian homeland. However, sharing was not part of the Arab psychological makeup then nor now.
Encouraged and incited by growing Arab nationalism throughout the Middle East, the Arabs of that small remaining Palestinian territory west of the Jordan River launched never-ending murderous attacks upon the Jewish Palestinians in an effort to drive them out. Most terrifying were the Hebron massacres of 1929 and later during the 1936-39 "Arab Revolt." The British at first tried to maintain order but soon (due to the large oil deposits being discovered throughout the Arab Middle East) turned a blind eye. It became painfully clear to the Palestinian Jews that they must fight the Arabs AND drive out the British.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Palestinian Jews were forced to form an organized defense against the Arabs Palestinians.... thus was formed the Hagana, the beginnings of the Israeli Defense Forces [IDF]. There was also a Jewish underground called the Irgun led by Menachem Begin (who later became Prime Minister of Israel). Besides fighting the Arabs, the Irgun was instrumental in driving out the pro-Arab British. Finally in 1947 the British had enough and turned the Palestine matter over to the United Nations.
The 1947 U.N. Resolution 181 partition plan was to divide the remaining 25% of Palestine into a Jewish Palestinian State and a SECOND Arab Palestinian State (Trans-Jordan being the first) based upon population concentrations. The Jewish Palestinians accepted... the Arab Palestinians rejected. The Arabs still wanted ALL of Palestine... both east AND west of the Jordan River.

Our Palestinian Cousins started the '48 war, and in so doing released the warlike appetites of a nation of survivors, a people with no place to run, who had repressed their rage for millennia, and had now earned full title to it!

On May 14, 1948 the "Palestinian" Jews finally declared their own State of Israel and became "Israelis." On the next day, seven neighboring Arab armies... Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen... invaded Israel. Most of the Arabs living within the boundaries of the newly declared "ISRAEL" were encouraged to leave by the invading Arab armies to facilitate the slaughter of the Jews and were promised to be given all Jewish property after the victorious Arab armies won the war. The truth is that 70% of the Arab Palestinians who left in 1948 – perhaps 300,000 to 400,000 of them – never saw an Israeli soldier! They did not flee because they feared Jewish thugs, but because of a rational and reasonable calculus: the Jews will be exterminated; we will get out of the way while that messy and dangerous business goes forward, and we will return afterwards to reclaim our homes, and to inherit those nice Jewish properties as well. They guessed wrong; and the Arab Palestinians are still tortured by the residual shame of their flight. Their shame is so great because in their eyes running from Jews was like running from women. So much for the blatant lie about Jews throwing out all the [Palestinian] Arabs!

The remaining 30% either (1) saw for themselves that these Jews would fight and die for their new nation and decided to pack up and leave or (2) were driven off the land as a normal consequence of war.

When the 19 month war ended, Israel survived despite a 1% loss of its entire population! Those Arabs who did not flee became today's Israeli-Arab citizens. Those who fled became the seeds of the first wave of "Palestinian Arab refugees."

The Arab propagandists and apologists almost never mentioned that in 1948, Arab armies launched a war against a one-day-old Israel. Instead he focused on the main consequence of that war: the creation of Arab refugees, stating that Israel "short of genocide" expelled 800,000 of them. This not only disagrees with UN estimates of a bit over 400,000 refugees but also ignores the fact that most of the Arabs/Palestinians were encouraged to leave by the Arab World itself!




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The end result of the 1948-49 Israeli War of Independence was the creation of a Jewish State slightly larger than that which was proposed by the 1947 United Nations Resolution 181. What remained of that almost-created second Arab Palestinian State was gobbled up by (1) Egypt (occupying the Gaza Strip) and by (2) Trans-Jordan (occupying Judea-Samaria (a.k.a. the "West Bank" of the Jordan River) and Jerusalem. In the next year (1950) Trans-Jordan formally merged this West Bank territory into itself and granted all those "Palestinian" Arabs living there Jordanian citizenship. Since Trans-Jordan was then no longer confined to one side of the Jordan River, it renamed itself simply "Jordan." In the final analysis, the Arabs of Palestine ended up with nearly 85% of the original territory of Palestine... called Jordan but in reality their ARAB "Palestinian state! But that was still not 100% and thus the conflict between Arab and Jew for "Palestine" would continue through four more wars and continuous Arab terrorist attacks upon the Israeli citizenry. It continues to this very day.
From 1949-67 when all of Judea-Samaria [West Bank & Jerusalem] and Gaza ... were 100% under Arab [Jordanian & Egyptian] control, no effort was EVER made to create a second Palestinian State for the Arabs living there. Surely you do not expect Israel to now provide these same Arabs with their own country when their fellow Arabs failed to do so! And isn't it curious how Arafat and his PLO (formed in 1964) discovered their "ancient" identity and a need for "self-determination" and "human dignity" on this very same West Bank ONLY AFTER Israel regained this territory (three years later in 1967) following Jordan's attempt attempt to destroy Israel! Why was no request ever made upon King Hussein of Jordan by the Arabs living on the West Bank when he occupied it? Is it logical that the PLO was formed in 1964 to regain the lands they would lose three years later in 1967? This sort of logic makes sense only to those who who have not learned that the PLO was formed to DESTROY Israel. And that is STILL their goal! A cosmetic name change from PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) to PA (Palestinian Authority) does not change the stripes on THIS tiger!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Throughout much of May 1967, the Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian armies mobilized along Israel's narrow and seemingly indefensible borders in preparation for a massive invasion to eliminate the State of Israel. The battle cry heard throughout the Arab world was then, as it continues to be... "Slaughter the Jews" and "Throw the Jews into the Sea!" But the Jews of Israel, remembering 2,000 years of being butchered, gassed, burned and skinned (eg. The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, the Arab rampages of early Palestine and particularly the Holocaust), planned and executed a perfect pre-emptive strike against Egypt. Within two hours the Egyptian Air Force did not exist... most of its planes destroyed while still on the runways! Unaware that the Egyptians had no more air force, King Hussein of Jordan, launched his attack from the his West Bank into Israel's belly while Syrian troops prepared to descend down the Golan Heights high ground into northern Israel.

Now for some facts about "occupation." Firstly, the Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians lost Gaza, the West Bank and Golan Heights (respectively) by participating in a failed attempt at genocide against the Children of Israel. Had Israel lost this 1967 defensive war, the Arab-Palestinians and their Arab allies would have raped, butchered or driven out every Israeli they could get their hands on and gobbled up all of Israel. Now, 35+ years later and despite the fact that Israel won a war BROUGHT UPON THEM, the Israelis are still willing to allow the Arab-Palestinians to have a state on much of the West Bank and Gaza if only they will stop sending their suicide/homicide bombers into the heart of Israel! (Talk about misplaced compassion!)

From 1948 to 1967, Egypt ruled Gaza, Syria ruled the Golan Heights, while Jordan ruled the West Bank. They could have set up independent Arab-Palestinian states in any or all of those territories, but they didn't even consider it. Instead, in 1967 they used the Golan Heights, Gaza and the West bank to launch a war that was unambiguously aimed at destroying Israel, which is how Israel came into possession of those territories in the first place.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After ONLY six days of air, sea and hand-to-hand ground warfare, Israel defeated all three Arab armies along three separate fronts, taking control of the entire Sinai Desert from Egypt, the 37mile x 12mile Golan Heights from Syria and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem and its Old City) from Jordan. The God of Israel was surely watching over His children! Most importantly was the return to Israel of its holy 3,000 year old capital city of Jerusalem along the western edge of the West Bank... the same Jerusalem from which all Jews had been denied access for the 19 years (1948-1967) following Jordan's seizure and control over it following the first Arab-Israeli War of 1948-9.
Unfortunately, the world saw things differently and considered Israel an "occupier" of this disputed "West Bank" and the Gaza Strip along with the 850,000 Palestinian Arabs living there. These Arabs would refer to themselves as "refugees" and joined the masses of refugees from the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948-9. Once again Israel was forced to fight a battle for survival and, sadly, once again Palestinian [in reality, Jordanian and Egyptian] Arabs becoming refugees by their own actions, the actions of their leaders and from the actions of fellow Arabs from neighboring states!
ISRAEL SCREWS UP TOO!

Israel was responsible for bringing about some of its own problems. The Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza Strip were packed and ready to leave following their 1967 defeat. Suddenly the victorious one-eyed IDF General Moshe Dayan persuaded them to stay. This singular act stunned no one more than the Arab enemy himself who could not believe such an incredible manifestation of Jewish madness! After all, the Arabs knew what THEY would have done to the Jews if they had won! Dayan's plan was to educate them, offer them modern medical treatment, provide them with employment both in the West Bank, Gaza AND inside Israel Proper itself ... living amongst each other in hopes of building bridges to the Arab world. Israel is now paying dearly for this typically naive "Leftist" gesture. That "bridge" led to two Intifadas and world-wide Arab-Palestinian terrorism. From a frightened and defeated enemy, these "Palestinian" Arabs under Israel's jurisdiction turned into a confident, hateful and dangerous enemy now on their way toward forming a terrorist state determined to destroy Israel!


Note: When people say Jordan (first called Trans-Jordan) is an Arab-"Palestinian" State, they are correct! Jordan accounts for 3/4 of Palestine's original land mass. Though they may call themselves "Jordanians," they are culturally, ethnically, historically and religiously no different than the Arab-"Palestinians" on the "West Bank." Even the flag of Jordan and the flag of the proposed 2nd Arab-Palestinian state on the West Bank / Gaza look almost identical. So, if the Arab-Palestinians and Jordanians think of themselves as one and the same, why should WE fall for the lie that the Arab Palestinians west of the Jordan River are any different from the Jordanian Arabs on its eastern shore?


Jordanian Flag

Proposed Palestinian Flag






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Usually when one side starts a war and loses both the war AND some territory, no one on the planet would expect the winner to give back anything! This not only sounds preposterous, it IS preposterous! But the Jews (I hate to admit) had such an insane obsession of wanting the world to love them that they were willing to give back the entire Sinai Desert (oil fields, air bases and endless miles of security buffer) to Egypt for a piece of paper. Thus, in 1982 Egypt regained their Sinai and Israel lost a massive buffer against any future Egyptian aggression! Thus far, Egypt has not aggressed against Israel militarily; however, the basest, anti-Semitic vile to come out of Egypt is not unlike the worse of Nazi anti-Jewish propaganda! This 1982 Camp David Peace Accord has to be the coldest peace deal in history!
Israel still occupies Syria's Golan Heights which, prior to the 1967 war, had been by Syria used solely for terrorist incursions into and artillery bombardment upon Israel's northeastern settlements. The Golan should never be given back to Israel's most vicious enemy! And of course, Israel still "occupies" the West Bank with its ONE MILLION TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND and Gaza with its EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND "Palestinian" Arabs. Had Israel done to these Arabs what the Arabs would have done to the Jews had THEY won, she would have expelled these hostile Arabs and made it officially part of a Greater Israel! But by remaining an "occupier," Israel set herself up for a campaign of vicious propaganda, the scope and intensity of which the world has never before seen!



..

More on "Palestinian Nationalism
and the
Real War Against Israel...

The Middle East war is not now and never was a conflict between Israelis/Jews on the one hand and Palestinians on the other. In fact, the Arab-"Palestinians", while currently the perpetrators of most of the anti-Jewish atrocities, were never a very important part of the conflict. In fact, before about 1970, virtually no one in the world considered the Middle East conflict to be one between Israelis and Palestinians.
The term "Palestinian" itself had referred to Israeli Jews back in the 1940s, and had been slowly deconstructed and redefined to refer to the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza. The Middle East Conflict was always a war by Arabs against Jews, not a conflict between Israelis and "Palestinians." The war was repackaged as a conflict between Jews and Palestinians as a public relations gimmick by the Arab fascist regimes. These regimes had never had any interest in "Palestinians," in creating a "Palestinian" state, or in "Palestinian nationalism" before 1967. That is because Palestinian nationalism did not and DOES NOT exist. The Palestinians were a regional group of Arabs having virtually no cultural nor national distinctive traits separating them from Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians. They are all basically Arabs!.

The bulk of what are called "Palestinian Arabs" are members of families who migrated into the Land of Israel beginning in the late 19th century. Palestinian nationalism is a mislabeling of Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism exists, although it is closely bound up with Islamic nationalism and even Islamism. Palestinian nationalism, however, is a phantom. It is nothing more than genocidal hatred of Jews!

The Arab assaults and aggressions against Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1968, and 1973 had nothing to do with Palestinians. The Palestinian terror campaign would itself be easy to suppress today and eradicate if the Middle East conflict were really a Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Israel would simply obliterate the terrorists and expel their supporters to Syria and Lebanon. The Middle East war continues because it is really an Arab-Israeli war, not an Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is also in large part a war between barbarism and civilization. In many ways an Islamic religious jihad against the Jews.


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Never changes

by They fled in '48 too Thursday, Oct. 26, 2006 at 7:20 AM

A growing number of palestinians are openly saying they'd like to leave the West Bank and Gaza if given the chance, yet another indication of the folly of their majority choice in electing Hamas to run their government.

Birzeit University pollster Nader Said, who has monitored emigration attitudes for 12 years, says the percentage of palestinians willing to relocate once hovered just below 20%. That figure jumped to 32% in a September survey, surging to 44% among palestinians in their 20s and 30s, and beyond 50% among young men.

Folks, remember this today in 2006 the above words as well as the following event: when Israel's independence was declared in 1948, the majority of Arab refugees were not expelled. Sixty-eight percent voluntarily left without seeing an Israeli soldier.

History reveals that Arab leaders called on the palestinian "refugees" to flee. Theirs was a self-inflicted nakba.

One of the many facts that Arab Muslims and other professional liars are ignorant of is that the Mandate of Palestine was an area mandated by the British divided into two UNEQUAL parts, the larger area for the Jew-hating Muslim Arabs and the smallest area for Jews.

I'm sick of listening to Muslims and Muslim apologists blame the Mid-East war on Israel. That doesn't explain why, in 1929, barbaric Arab Muslims slaughtered 67 Jews while they were praying in their synagogue in the Jewish Holy City of Hebron.

Israel is a sovereign nation that was RESTORED as the ancient and national homeland of the Jews by a unaninmous vote by the United Nations in 1947. Jews have lived in the West Bank and Gaza Strip throughout recorded history, until 1948 when they were forced to flee the invading Arab armies.

Several of the current settlement communities existed prior to 1948 when they where overrun by invading Arab armies. Kfar Etzion and other villages in the Jerusalem-Bethlehem corridor, for example, fell to Arab forces in May 1948 and those captured were massacred. Sons and daughters of those who lived there until 1948 were the first to return after the 1967 war.

The fact of the matter is that it's not Israel that causes Mid-East unrest, it's Islam. Islam is unhinged. It is the global Muslim rejection of Israel's right to exist and not Israeli policies that are the cause of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
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Another good example hate-twisted sadistic zionist "logic"

by TW Thursday, Oct. 26, 2006 at 5:03 PM

"another indication of the folly of their majority choice in electing Hamas to run their government."

Yes it's AAALLLL THE PALESTINIAN COCKROACHES' FAULTS! Of course. It has NOTHING to do with any final realization of FOUR DECADES of torture inflicted on this entire society by hate-crazed Israeli fascists, OBVIOUSLY INTENT ON FORCING THEM TO THIS VERY DECISION, noOOO-ho-ho-hooo! Don't you dare look at that cackling nebbish behind the curtain!
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