SLOPPY TACTICS

Top Save Our State organizers have been sloppy of late, revealing the full names of SOS members including a recent e-mail from Don Silva that revealed SOS member Jalira’s real name and e-mail address ("Heather Evans" <jalira666@comcast.net>) to be Heather Evans. The timing is interesting given Heather’s involvement lately in the anti-worker, anti-day laborer actions in Redondo Beach.

Evans, 26, (http://www.myspace.com/jalira) along with others have been the instigators of the anti-migrant action scheduled for Saturday, August 5th and now Silva, 46, Panorama City, has taken it over and claimed the action for Save Our State.

Could Silva’s brotherly actions in regards to Evans actually reveal something about the true motives of “The Preacher”, something other than brotherly care, something more “biblical”? Is there more than meets the eye with these two? Save Our State has already cost at least one top general his marriage, now another?

There have also been e-mails of late sent directly from SOS that revealed hundreds of names and e-mail addresses in the public portion of the e-mail. One has to wonder if a top-down organization with sloppy top-down tactics like that isn’t asking for trouble from the rank-and-file. As of right now it is not necessary to reveal any of the names, e-mail addresses or phone numbers obtained as it could potentially jeopardize our mole. Suffice it to say that there is no reason that this story will jeopardize the mole.

In other developments, Joe Turner, leader of SOS, who earned a reputation as a bit of an authoritarian dictator for the tactics he’s used to hold together the message board and to keep the group focused in his direction, has been “out-authoritarianed” by fireball Chelene Nightengale. Chelene posts on the SOS message board under the name “Patriotic Dream”. She is the KABC to Joe’s KFI. More vitriolic, more hate-filled and more belligerent, less sane and more prone to rants, whereas Joe Turner always remains calculated, a future in electoral politics always around the corner, Nightengale has been heard screaming, “I want to die in America!”


INFIGHTING REACHES A PEAK ON TUESDAY

A spontaneous blowup took place on the SOS message board on Tuesday when members began kicking around the idea of having a march (or counter-march) on September 4th (Labor Day), in response to a pro-migrant march being planned for the same day.

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=14741

Tempers immediately flared as some SOS members apparently resentful of the recent attention given to Chelene Nightengale or maybe the fact that the SOS leadership has been calling their people out to events on a near weekly basis.

An SOS veteran named "LambsMarch", who is also a veteran of the Campo Border Watches, initially reacted belligerently, "We don't need countermarches this time, it's a stupid waste of resources."

Chelene responded, "Ted [Hayes] and I are not planning anymore stupid marches, so you can relax with your criticism."

LambsMarch retorted, "You IDIOT, how can you save a nation when you don't have reading comprehension! I've been part of some of those activities that YOU called stupid (but I didn't call them that)."

Board Moderator Drumsme7 was first on the scene, "What in hell is wrong with some people? Lamb, you call PD [Patriotic Dream] an "idiot"?"

Chelene replied, "Sorry, respect is something earned and you just lost mine by calling me an idiot and disrespecting my work. You sound more like the enemy than a fellow patriot. A fellow patriot would have pm'd [private messaged] me to call me an idiot, not call me an idiot for every SOS member and goon to read! I would say that you have a real personal problem with me and you should have addressed that privately."

LambsMarch went on, revealing a emerging sore spot among SOS rank-and-file, "Well, I guess I'm not in the 'in' crowd or today's 'clique' so I'm the only one that has to hold to a standard, no one else does?"

Disciplined authoritarian Joe Turner arrived, "I am dropping the hammer. I am sick and tired of this shit between our own people. LambsMarch...you get a timeout."

Apparently, the simple act of disagreeing on tactics is enough to get rank-and-file members suspended as a punishment for questioning the ideas of the elite members of SOS.

Don Silva weighed in, again coming down hard against the rank-and-file, “if you differ…with the SaveOurState core beliefs about activism, how it should be done, and if it is fact doing anything, I think it would be better not to mention it, as you are not going to convince us”

Out-of-town SOS member AyatollaGondola added his two-cents with this: Wouldn't this be a great opportunity for a second amendment march with unloaded weapons? something along those lines... The Academia de Semillas' or any other places we'd like to leave our mark on?”

More to come.

Check back for part 2 of “Internal Strife at SOS?” later.

American Patriot 77, SZ in West LA, Jalira

error

I got a private message on the OC Register forums from someone who wanted to discuss the Minuteman stuff with me. It was someone who was "disgruntled" with them. I won't say who it is, but the person noted the lack of integrity in the Minuteman Project. And by "Project" the person would be indicating Gilchrist's brand of Minutemen. I replied and requested a confirmation, but it hasn't come back yet so the person didn't read my reply message yet.

By confirmation I mean the receipt system in the OC Register forums meaning the person read the message. The person seems to have registered a username just to send me a message.

You guys want my phone number too? Hey I already know who your mole is, but it really doesn't matter anyways.

Who cares about your phone number. Can you tell us your Stormfront username and if it's true that you do post there?

I am not a Stormfront member and therefore have no username, unlike you Cliff.

Unlike me? I've never posted there so you just told an untruth right there.

I never said you posted there but just asked if it's true that you do. I asked what your username is, but also if you post there in the same sentence. So I don't think there is too much indication that I'm going ahead and saying you post there.

I just suspected the possibility from incidents in Lake Forest last year. A post went up on Stormfront calling for more people, you and that guy showed up, and after that a post went up saying so and so were there. I don't remember the names and right now I can't find the posts but I think I have them printed. Plus when we spoke in person at the Gilchrist hq parking lot, you talked about how you once hired some "white" guys. You didn't say legal or American, but specifically said "white" guys.

It was December 4th 2005 in Lake Forest to be exact. Here's the picture I got of you when I spotted Iron Cross sunglasses. I tried to track down the sunglasses on the internet and only came up with West Coast Choppers shades, so I pretty much disregarded that bit.

"You didn't say legal or American, but specifically said "white" guys."

Somebody had the audacity to use the (gulp!)... "W" word?!? Oh, the humanity... the humanity...

I'm just wondering why she would use that word. If she hired them because they were legal workers and that was the reason why, why use the word "white"? Was she thinking about race at the moment she said that? Why was the word "white" spoken instead of legal or American?

This happened after the Stormfront incident in the Gilchrist campaign. Around this time was when I was still hanging out with the Gilchrist bunch, but made it clear that I'm not in the campaign. My intention there was to observe for more people from Stormfront and the like.

It may sound funny, but remember Advocate was at their Irvine rally recently and I got it confirmed on video.

"...Iron Cross sunglasses..."

Orange Coast swapmeet. An old Vietnamese guy sells them (2/$10), in case you're interested or want to boycott him. I believe he may post on Stormfront...

And I'm sure that same guy at the swapmeet also does Iron Cross tatoos, like the Arizona rescue ranch guy has on his arm as seen in the documentary "The Line in the Sand" which also features Alex Linder of the Vanguard News. I didn't say they were Nazi sunglasses and infact I just said I dismissed that bit.

"Why was the word "white" spoken instead of legal or American?"

Okay, what color do you have to be in order to be "legal" or "American"? It just sounds like the old "mountain<--->molehill" nonsense, you know? I'm a White guy, but I use the therm "White guy" sometimes, just like I use "Black guy" or "Asian guy", etc. I think you're trying to find something that just isn't there, and I dare say, that might spring from your own insecurities... at least that's the way it appears to me...

You sound like you may know Jalira so why don't you ask her next time you meet her why should used the word "white." I'm the one who was there in person whe she said it to me. It sounded a lot like she was regarded the race of the persons she spoke of hiring, not the legal status.

"And I'm sure that same guy at the swapmeet also does Iron Cross tatoos..."

He might, if that was his chosen trade. I recall watching a documentary titled, "Hell's Angels Forever" when I was a teenager, and one of the bikers had an SS patch on his jacket... and then started talking about his Jewish heritage, so I think you're making too much of certain things. Wouldn't it be better to get to know the individual, than assume?

Who said I was assuming anything? I'm taking note of it and it would be nice to know the explanation for it. It would be great if people from SOS/MM would explain some things while acknowledge some key facts. Jim Gilchrist should explain the Stormfront couple in his campaign publicly, while acknowledging the fact that he had a Stormfront couple in his campaign for Congress last year.

But instead, they seem content on simply posting something like "He has a tendency to take things and say its a big deal when it is in fact not so..." and maybe they think newcomers will read it and take their word for it.

"You sound like you may know Jalira..."

... or not, not only do I NOT know her, but I've no affiliation with any of those groups, although I'm against ILLEGAL immigration... (I did see her MySpace page, though, and she's got a nice smile!!!)

I never wanted Frank Jorge, Lupe, or Vince thrown out. I complained about the behavior that Gilchrist's particpants displayed a Lake Forest on November 15, 2005. But I never said anything specific about Lupe Moreno(who was behaving calmly) or Frank Jorge. Vince yeah, but I never said he or anyone involved should be kicked out. I was thanked for my efforts and video taping. I wasn't kicked out until I informed them that Konkwista88 and Dixieland_delight of Stormfront were participating in the campaign. Steve Eichler acknowledged this when speaking to me on the phone, verbally praising me. Mary Lewis later called with a tirade, and kicked me out.

"I'm taking note of it and it would be nice to know the explanation for it."

So, what explanation would suffice? If the guy said, ""Cause I like it", would that suffice? I'm just wondering why it's that big of a deal? Maybe he's a skater...

Are you employed? Do you have any friends? You seem to spend ALL of your time reading the SOS boards and posting on the OCRegister's forums and here.

Really sweetie, go outside into the real world and get a frickin' life. This is no way to live.

Not that it's of any relevance, but I actually don't spend a lot of time on this. I only bother going to events in Laguna Beach, Irvine, or Lake Forest. I'm not gonna drive to the L.A. area just to interact with you folks. As for employed, yeah I'm about to be despite the setback of having an empty gap of time because of the Gilchrist campaign. And no I didn't need to know Spanish or compete with anyone here without papers. The claims of SOS about this issue is likely to be greatly exagerrated.

Cliff if you want talk about all your concerns just email me or the phone works better :) Or just show up Saturday.

Jammer wants you to explain it over here not via email.

"I don't consider those who support Arnold to be enemies of SOS. I support Arnold for Governor and understand the reasoning behind those who don't."
--Joe Turner

Wonder how Arnold feels about that endorsement? Will Arnold return the favor when Joe decides to run? Is Joe's politico boss, Assemblyman Ray Haynes (R-Murrieta) pleased with Joe's endorsement of the CA Republican Big Boss?

Cliff is "independent" so why would he want me to explain here, where he is not even a "member"? Too bad, this is a whole different group that has nothing to do with Cliff except that he posts here sometimes. Maybe if he had his own forum......

There's no membership here, not even password usernames. It's not a single group, but rather a media format where people vary from people who want no borders to people who are against the idea of being here without papers but also against the nature of the Minutemen.

Again I'm not trying to pin the Stormfront thing on you and I've explained it before. But I'm curious as to exactly how you first heard about the activities in Lake Forest before you went there for the first time.

I heard about Lake Forest because I knew Robin. I had met her before but really got in contact with her at the Daryl Issa protest a long time ago. She invited me to join them at Lake Forest.

Fair enough. Any clues I had were vague anyways, although I'm still curious why you used the word "white" instead of American or legal that day in the parking lot.

OK OK! Sheesh you are persisten Cliffy. I was probably talking about my mom hiring people... but anyways I use race to describe Americans generally. Legal and American are implied whenever I describe someone by race, at least thats how everyone I know describes people. "That one black guy" "The asian looking skinny woman" etc. I usually describe foreigners by their nationality. For example a black or white or arabic Brit would simply be a "brit" when I would describe them. "Illegals" means any person who is here illegaly. Pretty simple but you don't need to worry about me, I'm not a racist, I'm just not very PC. Wow I can't beleive all my comments are still here :)

Hi Heather! How are ya! Nice to see you posing with pro-slavery confederate flag wearers!

My confederate flag wearing friend is anti-slavery, but of course you never bother to ask, idiot. Confederate pride doesn't mean pro-slavery. If you would actually talk to people you might find out more about them.... you know how to contact him :/

waving/wearing the confederate flag is anti-American, traiterous, pro-slavery.

Next thing you'll say is that the nazi flag doesn't represent genocide!

See ya on Saturday!!!

"waving/wearing the confederate flag is anti-American, traiterous, pro-slavery." Yeah! Look at this "traitor"!

a handful of his ancestors were pro-slavery blacks who fought for the traiterous Confederate States

http://www.civilwarhome.com/blacks.htm

"a handful of his ancestors were pro-slavery blacks who fought for the traiterous Confederate States" You know this guy?!?

after all, you posted his pic (and he looks none the happier for it)

Weren't these SOSMM et al. individuals recently in the mainstream news unable to explain where all the money went that was solicited putatively to build some wall some where? I don't recall the exact specifics but what I believe I do recall is that millions of dollars were solicited from racists around the country and so far nobody's seen any sign of where all the money went -- unless it's been accounted for and I've just not seen an updated report.

When infighting occures, one issue that gets fought over heavily is the money that the you-know-whats rooked out of the rubes. I can't recall the specifics of the alleged apartheid wall alleged scam and who was responsible, but I godda wonder if the money has been accounted for yet.

Anyone know?

My opinions only and only my opinions.

"after all, you posted his pic (and he looks none the happier for it)"

I sure don't, that's why I posted his picture only, but you apparently know his whole history, including his familiy's political affiliations... from 140 years ago! Simply remarkable...

This guy's been fed too much sh*t on a shingle:

"Edgerton, in an Asheville Citizen-Times article published in late 2002, stressed that he supports Southern heritage which, he said was not about slavery, which he abhors. 'Black folks were in a place of honor and dignity in the war,' he said. 'I've said it many times - we made all the foodstuffs for the armies; there were trained cadres of black folks that made all the weapons of war. If it hadn't been for all those black folks, that war wouldn't have lasted four days, much less four years.'

". . . . 'And I attended the funeral for Sen. Strom Thurmond in South Carolina last year. I wore my full Confederate uniform. 'Thurmond was a great man who served all races,' he said.

. . . . . .

"'There were many black Confederate heroes who you never hear about. What about the blacks who helped in Confederate hospitals and gun powder production sites,' he said.

"'The Confederate flag is a Christian symbol. The cross in the flag is the Christian cross of St. Andrew, the patron saint of Scotland,' he said.

"'I also walk for the Carolina children who are told they can't wear shirts that carry the Confederate flag on them,' he said. 'If I could, I would walk to New York City and place a Confederate flag at the foot of the Statue of
Liberty to remind people that the South has never been fully reconstructed.'"

try it some time.

BTW I would love to see the look on the face of Heather Evan's boss when he sees that pic of her posing with that confederate rag wearing dweeb.

BTW Heather Evan's betrothed is also a fascist.

Read the column on the right...
http://www.thealpinesun.com/archive/July%2021/as%20inside.html

How is Joe Turner these days? you said you know him right. They will be suprise when they figure u out.

Anyway, Heather Evans is a total RACIST:

"She said traces her opposition to illegal immigration to the time, a few years back, when she noticed that men who whistled and hooted at her often looked Mexican to her."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-10-01-civilian-patrol_x.htm

Mole, Mexican is not a race, its a nationality. See you Saturday!

If the reporter had put it in context like I did to him, maybe it wouldn't sound like I was stereotyping. Who cares. I certainly am not going to explain facts from my childhood in a public forum....

It looks like KR may have had some sexual abuse by a person of color and this is why he is so scared and angry.
It's OK KR, we still love you.
Try to work through it.

Now, why is KR so angry?

SOS racist Border Raven aka Border Blob is Gerry Nance and he lives in Fullerton. Check him out. : )

> to people who are against the idea of being here
> without papers but also against the nature of the
> Minutemen.

That's me. America needs borders and we need to stop illegal immigration. Peoiple who enter the country should be required to show that they have jobs first, the way it's done in most other Westernized industrial nations.

At the same time I'm against white supremacists and other racist scumbags. If the SOSMM et al. were legitimate, they wouldn't be comprised and/or wouldn't be supported and joined by overt and obvious white supremacists and neo-Nazis -- like we see when they stand on street corners and sidewalks and as we see by their identities exposed posting in Storm Front and other forums.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

> Confederate pride doesn't mean pro-slavery.

Woops! I can't imagine how anyone could utter such a lie. The Confederate flag is a symbol employed by neo-Nazis and is still employed by "the South" as a symbol of the good old days when "nigras knew their place" and Commies were "of Satan" and all the rest of the insane Christian extremist hate and bigotry.

You can't pick up symbols and proclaim they hold ideals contrary to what the symbols represent. Not with any degree of honesty.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

Indeed.

You can be proud of being a Southerner without being such an apologist for all the bad crap that went on.

Southerners like the battle flag for the same reason some Nth generation Mexican Americans sometimes fly the Mexican flag -- it's a way of defying the national majority, who say that having that background is something to be ashamed of. Flying the flag of an oppressed group, however, is vague, and you can't attach a single interpretation to it.

The problem comes when you have guys like Dinwiddie (the Black dude with the flag) who say all the bad things were really good things. That's foolish.

Blacks in the Confederate army weren't in a place of honor. They were slaves. They were cooks, because they weren't allowed to have guns. (Indeed, in American, they weren't allowed to have guns until WW2.) Nonwhites were kept unarmed because racism was so great that the government feared an armed, organized militia of the oppressed. They weren't just kept unarmed -- they were not trained to do anything but cook and clean and be some kind of labor. (I mean all people of color, not just Blacks.)

All the "great" things the Blacks in the CSA army are probably things to be "proud" of, in some way, but there should be a statute of limitations on military delusion. All the Blacks in the CSA army are dead. There's no more reason to kiss their asses.

Apparently, Silva was arrested for some reason down in Redondo Beach at the SOS action today. At first SOS members on the board were saying it was for an altercation with an "illegal" who will hopefully be deported. Then Silva came on and said - no, it was just some white guy.

Yes, just whitey. He puts it in terms that racists from here can understand since they read every one of his posts on SOS.

He needs to be in jail he has been doing illegal activities. He has been harassing the daylaborers. and the rest of SOS clan too.

Well there was hardly any harrassing of day labor workers yesterday in Laguna Beach. It was a Sunday so of course the center was closed(a few pick ups still happened). And in typical SOS fashion and as I predicted, they posted a picture of the near-empty center and claimed that it was empty simple because they(the SOS and Minutemen) were there. At least they didn't wait til later in the week and try to pass the photo off as one taken on a week day.

The Minuteman guy with the brown long beard and orange truck did a Nazi arm gesture as he drove off. We weren't sure if he was serious or joking.

Their protest was pointless on a Sunday. There was hardly anything to affect and certainly no members of the city council there to see their protest signs. Not even any press that I recall, although one lady who I think was with the Anarchists interviewed one or more of the SOS/MM participants. Otherwise, the protest will be pretty much unheard of except for the motorists who probably forgot about the sight of them a few moments after passing them by and their self-glorifying on the SOS forums.

Oh yeah, the guy who was open about the involvement of skinheads in the past Laguna events was there. He once again bragged about the skinheads supposedly driving away his opposition in a past event.

Unfortunately I didn't get that on video yesterday. But here's the video I got of him in Irvine if anyone didn't see it yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SqY1J6529M

The air-humping Minuteman wasn't there this time yesterday.

He was also born in Pomona.

Jalira, you just committed ethnocide against our people.

Mexican is indeed a race:

the Indigenous race of this cointinent.

AKA "brown" people

AKA "Indian"

AKA Not White

AKA Nican Tlaca

Jammer,

This whole thing for them is about race.

"Illegal" is a codeword for "Mexican",
not Canadian, Saudi, Chinese, Irish, etc.


------------------------------

This is about race.

"The Border" can only refer to the Mexican border,
never to the Canadian border (twice as long as the Mexican one).


------------------------------



This is about race.

If they say "Mexican" openly,
their White Supremacy becomes nakedly obvious.


------------------------------


SOS refuses to speak about the Canadian border (and the terrorist cells busted up there)
even though it is twice as long as the Mexican one.

That's because this is about race.

Specifically, the Indigenous Race.

"Mexican is indeed a race:

the Indigenous race of this cointinent.

AKA "brown" people

AKA "Indian"

AKA Not White

AKA Nican Tlaca"

Then, the Iroquois as well as the Incas are all "Mexican"?!? Sounds a bit bigoted to me...

The Iroquois and the Inca are also Indigenous.
As are Mexicans.


It isn't rocket science.

"The Iroquois and the Inca are also Indigenous.
As are Mexicans.

It isn't rocket science. "

Uhh... yeah... see, I sort of pointed that out with my question, but if you re-read what you originally wrote, you claim that, "Mexican is indeed a race: the Indigenous race of this cointinent.", therefore, by your statement, all indigenous people are "Mexicans".

Read it again- you'll see that I'm correct...

Wouldn't I have to kill people to commit some sort of "cide", and what the hell is ethnocide anyways? Mexican is not a race. Native American is a race, and Mexicans are mostly a mix. Who cares anyways? Its obviously all about race for the mexica movement. I want illegal Irish, etc. deported too!

Jalira, then protest against the Irish too.

For some people on the Minuteman side, yes it is a matter of race and some people get selfish in this sort of issue.

As for me, my take is that everyone is indigenous to this planet and my concern is human life.

____________________________

Yesterday there was a meet and greet with congressman John Cambell. I asked him to take whatever action is necessary to monitor the Minutemen. As examples I told him about murderer and drug user "Little Dog" who still does border watch with the Minutemen and the two classified as Neo Nazis in the Gilchrist campaign. But he gave a generic answer about there being a few "bad apples" in every bunch. He was actually familiar with my speaking out before and asked me why I was with them at first. The short answer was border security. The long answer, which I've explained before, was that I was new to all this and saying "well, yeah, secure the border and deport of course" is a common opinion to those new to this issue. I felt his response to me was like Governor Arnold's response to a lady who used the word "invasion" and saying it was prejudice. Only this time it went in the other direction, with John Cambell actually thanking the Minutemen.

_________________________

I do what I can to check the posts here and I see a bunch of new ones from today. If someone ever posts using my name(Jammer CC) and types something way off or really offensive and it gets hidden before I even know it, obviously it wasn't me. So far I haven't noticed that happening in the past few weeks.

__________________________

At the same event yesterday I spoke with Wiley Drake, the Chaplain of the Minuteman Project. He says he monitors the behavior of the Minuteman participants and tries to keep them under control. He described his past teachings and says he was in the KKK at one point, I suppose in his youth. And that he learned that it was all wrong. He's 60 something years old and seemed to be alert and talking clearly. Since he stated that the KKK stuff was in his past and that's all I even know about him, I don't see any reason to get on his case about that. But it's still something to take note of...

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=15078

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but on the article quoted in that post on the SOS forums, it mentions immigrants but not ones here against immigration laws, as in illegally. Yes other SOS members posted again about those here illegally against immigration laws. I'm not sure if they're blurring the distinction between those here in compliance with the laws and those not. Maybe they just say the word "Latino" and automatically thought about the people they target.

I remember long ago when people really went off on their targets on their message board. They used to post random photos of the people they target and make up stories and quotes about how so and so supposedly has a lot of babies and a lot of other exagerrated stereotypical scenarios. I guess those posts, along with those involving Advocate of course, were deleted.

"Correct me if I'm mistaken, but on the article quoted in that post on the SOS forums, it mentions immigrants but not ones here against immigration laws, as in illegally. Yes other SOS members posted again about those here illegally against immigration laws. I'm not sure if they're blurring the distinction between those here in compliance with the laws and those not."

Isn't that exactly what the pro-amnesty/pro-illegal alien lobby does when they use the generic term "immigrant" without distinction between legal and illegal?

Based on what I've seen and people I've spoken to, there seems to be various reasons for this.

One could be that some are trying to blur the distinction to the public. To try to get a tactical advantage in the media and in general.

Some are of the opinion that US immigration laws shouldn't apply to people from Mexico and there are various reasons for that. Such reasons could range from simply emulating the opinions of others to well thought out opinons.

Some may say "immigrant" without the word "illegal" simply for simple clarity when speaking. It doesn't mean they're denying that they're illegal according to US immigration laws. They're just not getting into that aspect and only looking at the general idea that certain people immigrated by traveling by whatever means.

Some may recognize the US immigration laws but want to disregard and blow it all off and try to use repetition of certain words and lack of words.

As for me, I recognize that those here against US immigration laws are, according to the law, illegal aliens. But that doesn't mean I regard such people with anger and hatred. I understand some people are offended the terms "illegal alien" or "illegal immigrant" or simply "illegal" as a noun. So to avoid any such feelings getting in the way of conversation, I usually use words like "here against immigration laws" which means the same thing and doesn't compromise my recognition of certain terms.

That's some good insight, for sure, but then wouldn't it stand to reason that the anti illegal alien side would have their own reasons for "blurring the line" as well, and that not all of those reasons would be nefarious in nature?

Blurring the line as in putting the legal immigrants in the same light as illegal immigrants? I can't think of a good reason to do that to legal immigrants. I've seen the attitude towards all immigrants, legal or not, from Mexico that's been displayed on the SOS forums. They cite reasons like defending American culture and how multi-culturalism is supposedly bad. Some opinons like "all immigration should be stopped" sneak in there sometimes, even if implicitly. Then it gets to a point where it's almost like a fixation some of them have towards anything even remotely Mexican, whether it's a business store sign in Spanish or hearing Mexican music from someone's car. If it's Mexican, they feel like it's an invasion.

Give me some examples

Cliff, you mean you were actually going to try and say that West Coast Chopper glasses were Iron Cross glasses?? WOW!! you definitely have tooooo much time on your hands, Spin Boy.

No I didn't say that. What I said was I saw a pair of sunglasses with iron crosses on them, which is a fact. I didn't know what brand they were until I looked for them on the internet. All I found were West Coast Chopper sunglasses and that was that. Of course, a Neo Nazi domestic terrorist could simply buy West Coast Chopper sunglasses because he likes iron crosses. But I'm sure that wasn't the case here.

george hayduke (real name) posted this on the SOS site in response to the above story about SOS.

"It just upset me when I saw it. I now realize it's old gossip that is not true. It worried me that anyone was so low, so scummy as to post people's names etc. You notice they post people from SOS, their real names, but they continue to hide behind screen names."

Hiding behind screen names? Posting real names? WOW, sounds like SOS tactics to me. The Gallery of Goons ring a bell?

SOS uses all kinds of underhanded tactics to acquire the real names and information of those that oppose them. While SOSers, including Jalira, have been quoted in newspapers including the USA Today.

Get real Hayduke. We can't even reply to you on your SOS board, meanwhile you can post a reply to this thread right here.

So what in any of the stories is a lie?

haha. redondo beach crew? i don't know of any of those people. what about me!

(here's me) www.myspace.com/redondomike

feel free to send me hatemail! :D

viva la migra!

he's a real "internet commando"

Well I have to say, that was a decent bit or reporting on the SOS 'event' and I wish there was a lot more like that. Enough real stuff goes on --before and behind the scenes--to talk about without hype, rhetoric and hysteria.

I would like to say first that it's natural and normal for a lot of disagreement and even infighting to go on within group(s) that are made up of unpaid, sometimes untrained, volunteers. The learning curve to go from ordinary citizen to activist is HUMUNGOUS and I imagine that is just as much true of the folks at Indymedia as at SOS etc. Regardless of which side of the issue(s) someone is on, I'd like to tip my hat to ANYONE who gets out there and says their peace as opposed to sitting at home watching 'the Simpson's' reruns.

In defense of SOS: Yes, Joe could have privately contacted me and requested me to edit my comments but for some reason he chose to drop a 'bowling bowl' on my 'head'--dunno why, but it's his place and he can do that. I do resent the idea of being banned and then talked about AFTER I was banned and could not respond. I run boards myself and I find that especially vulgar. However..he did not delete the thread, he did not edit the thread. It is still there. One thing I find offensive is altering history and he did not do that this time. I tip my hat to him. I can now post on SOS but I have no wish to do so. I do appreciate Joe leaving me the options of email and private message, that is gracious of him.

As for the future...I have no plans to go to anymore protests although I do have a standing offer to go to Baldwin Park 3 if there ever is one. I've been told those plans have been shelved by SOS and I don't know the reasons, although I could take a guess or two. I'm still willing to go though, given enough notice. Myabe I'll meet you folks ,on both sides, again if that ever happens. (waves wildly to jalira).

Chelene Nightingale or whatever her name is has jumped ship and is currently the focus of a lot of animosity from SOS rank-and-file.

O RLY? Interesting.

It may be Sandinator who is on the outs, not Chelene. I'm not sure. There was a post by the SOS leader saying one of them left him 4 voicemails in the middle of the night threatening him or some such nonsense. Sandinator has a website (www.sandinator.com) that may shed more light on the rift. I'm a mole at SOS (yes, I'm the guy responsible for making YouTube remove 400+ of their videos) and have been laying low for all of this drama. Perhaps this could be documented on the SOS wiki?

Yes Sandinator is outta SOS, as far as I can tell. There's a video of Chelene in that 4 Points protest thing yelling at day labor workers calling them "drugs smugglers" and "human smugglers." And apparently there's a comment posted by Sandinator saying something about an airhead, refering to Chelene it seems. And it looks like Don Silva replied saying stuff about Sandinator and why she's out of SOS. Here, lemme find it...

Actually it was some other video and I can't find it right now. But basically Don Silva replied to Sandinator and blew her off and saying something about why she's not in SOS anymore.

send me whatever you have on SOS. Send it to mike_4507@yahoo.com. It will get into the correct hands from there.

Chelene is the brunette in the pictures above.

See, check it out. AmericanPatriot77 (the Confederacy junkie whose 400+ videos I yanked off of YouTube) is requesting like-minded SOSers to rant about Sandinator on his forum here:

http://americanpatriot77.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=514#514

Hopefully some juicy gossip will erupt! Then we can update their wiki entry. :)

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?act=Search&nav=au&CODE=show&searchid=bf487c9fa97bedc0119117600e23f4b6&search_in=posts&result_type=posts

hahahaha i love reading his whiny posts. i wonder if he has figured out my IRL identity yet.

Thing about getting his videos pulled is that it may seem malicious. But it was some youtube staff member who decided in the end to pull them. Either way, there are some videos they have of me speaking that, hey, I wouldn't mind if they stayed up there. If it was me filming, I'd leave it up anyways. I thought about setting my camcorder up to record me talking, but I don't wanna come off as someone who is self promoting. I remember when AP77, I think it was, came right back on youtube after his videos were pulled. He put himself on camera and spoke with this silly looking cowboy hat and lit a cigarette, I guess trying to be all badass. Very funny.

Well anyways, I do have a video clip from last Saturday, good for some laughs. Yes it's him, you know who. No not AP77, I'm talking, of course, about the Brokebutt Border guy. Who else would it be? Roll the clip.

On the SOS board, "voiceofreason" wrote:

Man I'm tired of paying for the sins that some white guys commited when I didn't even know them and they died a hundred years ago. In other words, I'm excreting what somebody else ate.

What is it with resentful white folks?  They always exaggerate how recently state white supremacist law was repealed.  I've read websites where people say that there hasn't been slavery in the USA for "centuries".  They say that the country hasn't been guilty of racism for over a "hundred years." What's up with this ignorance?  Did they go to a KKK Charter School?. A reasonable year marking the end of state-sponsored racism was 1965, when the Voting Rights Act was passed, which was a little over 40 years ago. 

There were laws before and after that dealt with Civil Rights, but that's a pretty good milestone.  It altered voting to make it easier for people to vote.  There's still a ways to go, especially to help people get good voting information, and good information about their local, county, state, and federal government offices, but the VRA has been the big law since 1965.

The people responsible for a lot of the legal racism didn't die "a hundred years ago."  They have been dying all along, but it's only very recently, with the death of Strom Thurmond in 2003, that it's really starting to look like all the old Dixiecrats and GOP KKK-affiliated politicans of that era are going to be buried.

That's not a hundred years ago -- that's four years ago!  Only 96 more years to go.

Things have improved considerably, even though  not as far as it could.  Politically, being a white nationalist doesn't usually work out if you're running for office, but, the racist position still has some political clout.  When David Duke ran for senator of Louisiana in 1990, he could have won, were it not for the leaders in the Republican Party pulling funding for the other Republican candidate, and having the Party endorse the incumbent, who was a Democrat.  The Party wanted to shift all the moderate GOP votes to the Democrat, to lock in his victory, and keep Duke out.

That's the new, post-Civil-Rights Republican Party - willing to sacrifice their own candidates to keep the fascist wing of the GOP from gaining power.  There's something vaguely reassuring about that.

However, in this weird world of strange tactics, you also get characters like Alan Mansoor of Costa Mesa.  Now, there's a surname that wouldn't get elected in the Bible Belt, even with his online bona-fides to assure folks that he's just as racist as Duke.

Maybe the problem isn't the "white" part of whtie supremacy.  Maybe the problem is the idea of supremacy.  It's a supremacy based on nationalism, and a particularly sick kind of nationlaism that, when it/he/we can't be proud of what the nation has become, or suffers anxiety when the supremacy is challenged, lashes out at other nationalities.

ALIPAC's fuhrer posted the following on the SOS board. Something about a Bill Tibbe leaking some highly damaging/incriminating info about SOS/ALIPAC's dealings:

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=21828

"Friends at SaveOurState.org,

Thank you for bringing this post to my attention.

First, I will share information with you that may help protect your site. A user posting on our site under the name wetibbe and signing as Bill Tibbe was banned from ALIPAC yesterday. This user had a small post history of about 80 posts but had been signed up for over a year.

Wetibbe was banned for making a post that was one of the worst things we have seen in the over two years we have been in operation. The post would have been of high interest to the OBLs and opposition media and quite likely to the office of Homeland Security. We do not understand why anyone that claims to be on our side of the issue would post such a poison pill on our boards. This person is either on our side and completely destructive/reckless or working for the other side and has come to cause big trouble. We banned the account and are considering sending the message to the proper authorities due to the seriousness of the matter."

A video taken by our mole inside Save Our State, a group started by Ventura, CA politician Joseph Turner. SPLC and HateWatch.org classify SOS as a "race-based hate group." This is the typical behavior by Save Our State and Minuteman Project members when confronting people they think are undocumented migrant workers. Save Our State: the true face of hate. Save Our State: EXPOSED! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fz9bzla-wI

I viewed the video and I don't recognize the guy with the flag. The guy with the camera may be someone I met at their Irvine rally last year. He kind of looks like Tim Connelly but is someone else, if that's the same guy I met.

But I have seen Minuteman and SOS members act silly, hostile, and derogatory towards day labor workers. Heck I saw 1inchgroup threaten to shoot one in Lake Forest. We've seen the video here. If they see any kids with them, they automatically call them "anchor babies." It's a term I don't really like by the way and as far as I know it's not even a legal term. I think the late Dr. Madeline Cosman made that one up.

I viewed the video and I don't recognize the guy with the flag. The guy with the camera may be someone I met at their Irvine rally last year. He kind of looks like Tim Connelly but is someone else, if that's the same guy I met.

But I have seen Minuteman and SOS members act silly, hostile, and derogatory towards day labor workers. Heck I saw 1inchgroup threaten to shoot one in Lake Forest. We've seen the video here. If they see any kids with them, they automatically call them "anchor babies." It's a term I don't really like by the way and as far as I know it's not even a legal term. I think the late Dr. Madeline Cosman made that one up.

This Don Silva character is quickly sinking the SOS ship by screaming about so many different topics.

When is the next vote to merge us into a one world government, Don?

> This Don Silva character is quickly sinking
> the SOS ship by screaming about so many
> different topics.

It should be easy to continue to foment diorder among their ranks. They're driven by hatred, bigotry, and occult superstitions and civil rights activists should encourage internal strife among the scumbags.

he's the confederate slaver in the photos above; he celebrates violence against Naui but cries fould when he gets it. pix:

http://www.nomoreinvasion.com/forum/index.php?topic=1416.30

I doubt dennis heard about karma. him and the rest of sos/mm need to learn what karma is all about, but i doubt it they will.

"This Don Silva character is quickly sinking the SOS ship by screaming about so many different topics.

When is the next vote to merge us into a one world government, Don? "

Didn't I tell you this would happen?

speaking of pro-confederate slavers, they'll be at the Burbank HD 12/1/07

LINK:

http://www.nomoreinvasion.com/forum/index.php?topic=1522.0

supposedly Randy Dees aka 3ironhead3 of the Nazis/SOS was busted on 12/20/07. there are rumors that it's an internet hoax
http://www.themidnightsun.org/?p=1776

Seems Joey might be too white even for the anti-immigrant FAIR folks. But he bounced back and right into bed with the San Bernardino PD, where they're just peachy paying a white separatist to help round up people.

Controversial Official Leaves FAIR

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2008/01/08/controversial-official-no-longer-at-fair/

In late December, the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) reportedly let go Joseph Turner, its western region representative, who had been hired just 13 months earlier, in November 2006. Calls to Turner and FAIR officials seeking an explanation for Turner’s unannounced departure were not returned, but a Hatewatch call to the FAIR switchboard asking for Turner met with this hard-to-misunderstand response: “He’s no longer with the company.” This comes in the wake of an Intelligence Report [1] story that detailed FAIR’s ties to white supremacy and designated FAIR a hate group, a move that garnered some national publicity. The Intelligence Report story pointed out that Turner was the founder and long-time leader of a group the Southern Poverty Law Center lists as a hate group —Save Our State, which developed a [2] reputation for allowing neo-Nazis to participate in its rallies.

Although Turner has denied being a racist, he has defended white separatism. “I can make the argument that just because one believes in white separatism that that does not make them a racist,” Turner [3] wrote in Save Our State’s Web forum in 2005. “I can make the argument that someone who proclaims to be a white nationalist isn’t necessarily a white supremacist. I don’t think that standing up for your ‘kind’ or ‘your race’ makes you a bad person.”

Some in the most radical sectors of the anti-immigrant movement have claimed publicly that FAIR fired Turner. A person identifying himself as “Al Lewis” of the Americans for Mass Deportation Yahoo group wrote: “Joe Turner has been fired from FAIR by [President] Dan Stein, apparently because of that pro-illegal outfit the southern poverty law center [sic] called [sic] FAIR a ‘hate group’ or some nonsense about Joe being a racist.”

Turner’s exit did not go down well in at least some anti-immigrant circles. “I’m very worried that we may have been sold down the river again by those damn groups in DC,” Lewis wrote in another post. Americans for Mass Deportation founder [4] Liz DeMarco lamented that she “did not even warn [Joe] about [FAIR] because I knew he needed the money for himself and his family.” Laine Lawless, who in 2006 [5] encouraged neo-Nazis to attack undocumented immigrants, slammed FAIR as well: “That’s the problem with FAIR — no one knows what they actually DO, except make speeches occasionally, once a year put on a ‘workshop’ with guest speakers, and of course highly-over-paid Dan Stein goes on FOX News periodically.”

Here's the bounce:

http://www.sbsun.com/ci_8038976

Police union hires Turner as consultant
Robert Rogers, Staff Writer
Article Launched: 01/21/2008 07:50:29 PM PST


SAN BERNARDINO - The city's police union has hired a controversial former activist and twice-defeated candidate for local office as its political consultant. Joseph Turner, 30, gained national recognition in 2006 when an interest group he founded fought for tough local anti-illegal- immigration ordinances. Turner has been on the union's payroll since Jan. 1, he said by phone Monday.

The Police Officers Association first raised eyebrows in August when it endorsed Turner's failed bid for city clerk. Virtually all other elected officials joined broad local support for incumbent Rachel Clark.

Turner said Monday that his allegiance to the union reflects the organization's eagerness to help lower crime and improve community relations. He cited his childhood in the area, which he said was mired in poverty and his parents' drug use.

"Given my background and life experience, I believe I bring a unique perspective of the dynamics shaping relations between the Police Department and the residents of the Westside and the city generally," Turner said.

Sixth Ward Councilman Rikke Van Johnson disagreed, saying Monday the union's hiring of Turner is a step in the wrong direction. The union's image in the predominantly black and Latino Westside was already improving after recent holiday gift drives and community outreach programs.
"I don't know what they were thinking," Johnson said of Turner's hiring. "Turner is not in touch with the predominantly minority community I represent. In fact, he has offended most of the people in my community."

The union has had numerous political tussles over the years, including a bruising campaign on behalf of City Attorney James F. Penman against eventual winner Pat Morris in the 2005-2006 mayoral election. Splits between union leadership and Police Chief Michael Billdt over internal investigation procedures have wound up in federal court.

Turner described his work as that of a political consultant, an adviser to union leaders and strategist in dealing with the press, public, and political and department leaders.

Turner declined to divulge his salary.
President Rich Lawhead said the union's 15-member board overwhelmingly voted to hire Turner at a December meeting, believing his abilities outweigh initial controversy.

"Joe is an innovative, highly educated guy who should enhance our image and our effectiveness," Lawhead said. "I guess you can say he's controversial, but only on the issue of illegal immigration, which Californians have largely supported fighting."

Joe Turner is the stepson of a Mexican, a decent guy that took care of him and his mom after the drugs and poverty thing he talks about. He adores the biological white father who abused and neglected him, hates that Mexican, hates all Mexicans, sick puppy.

They say Hitler was part Jewish.

Pitchess detention center

http://www.lasd.org/divisions/custody/pdc-north/pdcn-custodyinfo.html

Can I just say this thing about the Confederate flag? Where I live, there are several of them flying all the time (not by me). I have spoken to the homeowners, and also one person I work with who flies one as well.

The Nazi Swastika wasn't invented by the Nazis, I think it is a little-kept secret it was invented and used by someone else long before, and just appropriated by Hitler's goonage for their own ends. They ruined, I guess for all time, the meaning of an ancient positive social symbol.

So too with he Confederate flag. It used to mean one thing, but its usage is changing to mean something else. Today, when flying anywhere but in the south (where I can't speak for what it means), it stands for the Constitutional right of the States to make their own way and sink or swim on their own. At one time, the States had a poor history in protecting the lives and well being of their citizens, and the federal government at that time stepped in and achieved some small measure of social change. Now the pendulum seems to have swung the other way and the States are struggling for life and breath and the federal government seems to be standing in the way.

At least in the case of the confederate flag, its meaning seems to be going from negative to positive. I wish the same would go for the swastika, I'd like to see the connotation returned to what it was before it was changed by a small group of short-lived European murderous THUGS.

Maybe someday....

If the swastika pattern were carved on some rock or weaved in a tribal style basket, it probably wouldn't look so suspicious. I'm aware that the origins of the swastika come from way before the Nazi era. But obviously to see a black swastika in a white circle on a red flag or background can only mean Nazis and Neo Nazis, like those seen in Laguna Beach on July 30, 2005.

I agree, context is everything.

from the nazis/SoS website:


MEMBERS READ - Am I the reason you don't attend SOS events?

You know quite a few horrible UNTRUE things have been said about me since joining this movement. I have been called the "bride of frankenstein", a "tweaker", a "drama queen", a "racist", a "liar", and a host of other nasty slander! A couple people in this movement have attempted to maliciously and falsely sue me! People have made up stories and tried desperately to ruin my reputation. I think I have endured quite a bit and tried my best, but someone sent me the following link and let me tell you at first I was offended, but then I thought is Sam right? I want some answers and I would like all of you to be honest without being vicious of course. IF what is printed below is true, I will quit tomorrow...I do have a couple upcoming events, but I will gladly bow out of the movement if it is what is best to save this nation...so please answer the poll, and make comments as you see fit.

http://www.nomoreinvasion.com/forum/...?topic=3106.15



SZinWestLA Hero Member



The germ of the idea that Derek had was great but the execution sucked ... in part because the Chelenites have alienated too many people. They're not drawing numbers anymore. I knew the attendance would be low. The same thing happened at the Barack Obama gig they had a couple months ago. They've peed in the Cheerios of too many of the former faithful attendees and a lot of them simply aren't showing anymore. Think of all the faces you used to repeatedly see in photos and film, those who belong to this board and those who don't, who are flat abstaining from the Chelenite functions.

Further, American Apparel has money. Dov Roostersock can hire a few dozen folks to walk around with signs and hand out promotional materials without raising a sweat. You want to make a splash, you'll require 70 or 80 folks that Chelene can't get anymore on her own. With Ted's or Frank's help, maybe.

Shriek-lene returned from Save Our State after a 2 month absence caused either by "personal issues" or an allergy attack or to lose in a beauty pageant, depending on who you believe.

She immediately banned anyone with any intelligence.

People of color must work together for change
By Nicole Lee
-Guest Columnist-
Updated Jun 18, 2008, 09:26 am



Daily, I get forwarded informational emails from family members. Most are constructive. They remind me of the important fact that far too many women in our country are dying of cancer.

Others are not so constructive, and talk about economic problems in the U.S. focusing on one central enemy: the immigrant.

“Illegal immigrants come to this country, steal our jobs, and don’t pay taxes.”

“Immigrants take advantage of federal, state and local services.”

“Immigrants demand everything in Spanish from the street signs to the national anthem.”

These emails expose the ugly, harsh prevailing beliefs expressed by White and Black Americans alike. Whether dominantly liberal or progressive, many Black Americans have lived for generations at the back of the line, and tie the perceived threat of immigrants to their scarce jobs and resources. Although we share a similar historical condition and have worked together for basic human rights and justice, these tensions manifest themselves between Blacks and Latinos.

In this age of globalization, it is ok for everything to be transnational except poor people. Jobs can be shipped from country to country. Vertical industrialization is over. That shirt you’re wearing was most likely manufactured in multiple countries. It was woven in one country, sewn in another, packaged possibly in a third. Multinational corporations, with the help of the U.S. and European governments, have divided up the world into raw material producers and manufacturers. Your shirt is not illegal.

Capital is also transnational. Once tied to the gold standard, the U.S. dollar is now tied to the international market and is traded internationally. It is affected by the British pound and Japanese Yen. This is not illegal. What is apparently “illegal” is, in response to these transnational economic changes, for the poor people who are most negatively affected by globalization to migrate. Yet, despite all the rhetoric, these undocumented immigrants are boosting, not hurting our economy. If all the undocumented workers left the U.S. tomorrow, our economy would lose $1.8 trillion a year.

We need to let go of the myth that people are coming to this country because “it’s the greatest country in the world.” I have traveled all over the world; I have never met anyone who wanted to leave their homeland. But because of conflict, disease and lack of opportunities people do have to leave. Trade agreements in the style of NAFTA and CAFTA have sweeping economic effects that benefit large corporations, not the workers. People in the U.S., especially in the rust belt, have social protections such as welfare and Medicaid, but still feel the crippling effects of job losses and high prices. Workers and families in poorer countries, like Mexico and Nicaragua that do not have any social safety nets, feel the brunt of the changes more severely and desperately. Besides trade agreements, the slavery of debt of poor nations and structural adjustment (a process whereby poor countries our forced to reduce their spending on social services) have created an economic maelstrom in already fragile countries.

From low intensity warfare to full scale invasions, our foreign policy has set into motion a chain of events that make many countries unlivable. We allow our government to spend almost $500 billion per year, almost $1.4 million per day on “defense,” yet it is our coupled economic and foreign policies that are causing many of the conditions people flee.

All Americans, including Black Americans, must work to make our world, and not just this country, livable. We have to create a foreign policy that makes it possible for people to live in their home, in their country and to have a promising future. Undocumented workers, the majority who are honest and hard working, deserve basic human dignity, decent working conditions and path towards legalization. It is with our shared histories in mind we can work together to ensure fair and just economic and social conditions at home and abroad.

(Nicole Lee is executive director of TransAfrica Forum. This commentary was distributed by NNPA.)

it seems that Heather Evans aka Jalira and David McClelland aka gsbAmeriKKKa have began posting on the neo-nazi Stormfront website. so much for her protestations of "not beibg a racist".

click the link below to see the threads they have posted in

gsbAmeriKKKa:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=gsbamerica++site%3Astormfront.org&btnG=Search

Jalira stay tuned

~~~~~~~~

Peregrinus Expectavi
Pedes Meus
In Cimbalis

Derek Manning, aka "PochoPatriot67" has been BANNED from the SoS/Nazis website. He and his wife, Shirley Mascarenas aka "Mrs. PochoPatriot" can be found posting at confederate rag waving Dennis Slater's website. One wonders how long it will be before they too will be found on Stormfront.

--Алекса́ндр Яросла́вич Не́вский

Wow, back in 2005 I suspected this couple of being Stormfront racists. Back then there was a post on Stormfront calling for people to help the MM/SOS/Gilchrist campaign take action against day labor workers in Lake Forest. I went and first suspected Jalira and her guy. I took a photo of her iron cross sunglasses. You may remember that posting here. Later I figured it wasn't them. I thought it was an individual.

Looks like it could have been them afterall. If all this is true. Funny how it took a few years for that to turn up. Even funnier that it took the MM/SOS, who had them on their side for all this time, this long. They got a lotta help and time from this racist couple LOL.

I could continue trying to uncover racists in the MM(I've had other success that didn't take 3 years to figure out). But it depends on some things. I remember back in 2005 and 2006 some people laughed me off here. I'm not sure which were really MM posting here but it looks like some were activists against the MM who didn't take me seriously. And there was the time when I went to the Costa Mesa city council meeting and some supports of Coyote practically wanted me to go to jail for peeking in the news van at footage of Coyote being physically handled and arrested. Every time I tried to explain myself to the reporter, a group of activists again yelled at me saying I could be arrested, despite their police boycott.

So if I'm gonna be put in jail by people who I'm actually on the same side of, I ain't doing that. Currently I film the MM to catch their racist and hateful behavior. I won't go into investigating efforts anymore. I'll devote time and resources to help those being harmed by the Minutemen. But I'm not gonna get arrested and get a criminal record for it.

I didn't mean to get a little frustrated there. I guess the thought of exposing racists brought back memories of a few years ago of coming across obstacles from people I was hoping would be allies. Anyways the fact remains that the MM/SOS had these two now confirmed Stormfront racists in their ranks for a very long time.

I wanted to answer this a long time ago, am just getting around to a lot of online catch-up:

I have traveled all over the world; I have never met anyone who wanted to leave their homeland. But because of conflict, disease and lack of opportunities people do have to leave.

I do not disagree with this. However, there comes a time to stand up and be counted or sit down and lower your head and take crap without whining. Immigrants from many countries claim they are leaving because things are so bad, but the reality is things are bad BECAUSE THEY ARE LEAVING. examples are some of those Mexicans who have led public protests. They tried to stand up and to make a change for the better. So how did many of their fellow countrymen respond? THEY RAN for America which was a ready-made prosperous place. So they didn't have to do the hard work involved in cleaning up a cesspool.

My country USA is in more trouble now than ever in ist history. Do you see me running away to another country? Think what you will of some of us in the field across from all of you, but we are at least staying home and trying to make a difference and not running away to someplace else in droves just because it is EASIER. Although there are days when I would surely love to.

I'm trying to get time off from doing the' job Americans won't do' to get to a Joe Arpiao event. Hope to see some of you there.

OMG !!!
The horse-toothed Jackass named Chelene Nightingale is running for Governor !!! With all of the stupid, ignorant, fascist fools in the state, she just may win !!!

Click the link below to read the story, and check out her picture, she looks like a braying donkey !!!

http://www.examiner.com/x-10317-San-Diego-County-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2009m7d8-California-governors-race-gains-another-female-candidate-Nightingale

She alone would make the governor race more ridiculous and more of a farce than the first one Arnold one with all the candidates in that one. If she runs, I guess she would be considered a public figure. If that happens, I wonder what Jim Gilchrist would say about her then since Chelene will then not be able to sue him again.

Also I'm not surprised she's running with the political party that was starting by George C. Wallace. I wonder if she'll have Stormfront members Jalira and GSBAmerica, who are also SOS members, working in her campaign. You can look up their usernames on SOS, Stormfront, and youtube.

And yeah she has a weird thing where it looks like her upper gums are longer than her actual teeth. Like those sharks you see on Discovery that have teeth that seem to move down and you see a fleshy wall above it as the mouth edge peels back.

to view some juicy dirt Davi Anthony Rodrigues aka AyatollahGondola, Chelene Horsey Face Nightingale, and the rest of the SoS/Nazis log on to:

http://delphiseer.blogspot.com

for example, "[Chelene] is your horse"....

LOL, Chelene running for Calif governor 2010

People have already said about Chelene running for Calif governor 2010 from Ameri Indep Party:
"Since Chelene Nightengoul is now a public figure running for elective office, she will have to allow criticism from anyone. Progressing from screwing-up her laugingly self-called modeling and equity stage actress career in Washington, her broken marriage, filing personal financial bankruptcy only a year ago, her home schooled two kids, lost her house to foreclosure, the direction and killing the membership of Save Our State, long-time melomaniac of Joe Turner's org, bad campaign manager of Art Olivier state election campaign (failed), disloyal to George Bush & Ron Paul & libertarians and now AIP in three years; she has the American Independant Party (who gave us racist George Wallace) backing her for Governor of the Golden State. How appropriate but makes conservatives look like a crazy joke. A shameful act. Search Yahoo Groups for info website called- saveoursanity2 group."
People have already said about Chelene running for Calif governor from Ameri Indep Party:
"Ms. Nightingale is ill suited for the position she seeks because she has an established history of wildly lashing out at people with whom she disagrees, in much the same fashion as you would expect of a girl 30 years her junior. Her reputation inside the niche grassroots subculture she inhabits is damaged to the extent that her name is commonly used as a punch line by many of the people most familiar with her efforts of the last four or five years. Insofar as her ability to address California's financial problems, she has had pronounced difficulty successfully addressing even her own financial problems of late.
Mix these factors in with this candidate's considerable appetite for internet fodder caliber conspiracy theories, and you have a person seeking office well above her "pay grade."
This being said, however, she is on the right side of most issues that impact our state. Therefore, if you are seeking a candidate upon whom to bestow your "protest vote," this is your horse."

may it burn in Hell ...

http://saveourstate.org/vforums/index.php


--Алекса́ндр Яросла́вич Не́вский

the "texas minuteman" claim on their website that they thoroughly screen their members, so they must truly approve of having nazi collaborators as their members !!!
***
DONATIONS NEEDED FOR MARCH EVENT
Written by Don Silva

Saturday, 30 January 2010
Texas Minutemen
As Americans, you understand the importance of protecting our nation’s borders. Yet as the Texas Minutemen focus on towns, cities and on the border our elected officials continue to ignore this growing national security issue. Fortunately, American resolve has never depended on Washington bureaucracy.
In March, the Texas Minutemen will be performing a Border Watch & Recon in the El Paso & Marfa Sectors. The Border Watch will focus on 15 miles of exposed (un-fenced) border from the end of our normal patrol area which is the most secure in the nation thanks to Texas Minutemen Volunteers and more Agents and an 18 foot fence. The Recon will focus on an area to the east approximately 100 miles for a future border watch in October 2010. This is a high drug cartel active area!!
Today, your generous donation to the Texas Minutemen will help make this event and others like it possible. Success on the border is vital to keeping the pressure on Washington with the 2010 elections approaching and will only happen if Americans like you pledge your support. Remember “Health Care Reform” now and “Amnesty” next!
So far, Texas Minutemen Border Watches have produced the most impressive results out of all the Border Security Groups. Issues being ignored last year like issuing drivers licenses and in state tuition to illegal immigrants are suddenly being considered because of the new awareness brought by the Texas Minutemen. Our original patrol area has more Agents and an 18 foot fence! The efforts of the Texas Minutemen have brought fruit and we need to continue to the east!
Yet with all the progress we’ve made, our victory is still in the distance. There is still so much work to be done. The year will be crucial in determining the success of our effort. The fight will be difficult. Have we made believers in our Political Leaders? 2010 will tell!
We know we can succeed in protecting our border, but the Texas Minutemen still need your help in making our voice heard. Your support will ensure a brighter and more secure future for all Texans.

Sincerely,

Texas Minutemen

http://www.txminuteman.org

SaveOurState.info
Presents
TAKE BACK AMERICA RALLY
Santa Clarita, California
Magic Mountain Pkwy & Valencia Blvd.
Saturday Feb. 27th 11am-1pm
Taking Back Santa Clarita & America
Support for Victims of Crimes
Come enjoy the afternoon with people wanting to restore our neighborhoods, towns, and country back to prosperity, along with respect for the rule of law, fighting gang violence, illegal immigration, the amnesty being proposed and supporting fiscal responsibility. Joining us in attendance will be Mr. Bob Kellar, a man who served our country bravely and has given many years of service to the Santa Clarita City Council and its citizens. Speakers include candidates running for Federal, State, and City seats. Topics discussed include illegal immigration, its victims, and controlling taxes.

David Gauny…..............Running for Santa Clarita City Council

Mark Reed …………….Running for 27thCongressional District

Kathleen “Suzy” Evans…Running for California’s 40th District

Rabbi Nachum Shifren…Running for California’s 26th District

Lupe Moreno..LatinosAmericansforImmigrationReform (LAIR)

Shaw Family……….. ……………Victims of illegal alien crime

March Family…………………….Victims of illegal alien crime

Ted Hayes.....................America's Black Sheild

Robin Hvidston……………..WethepeopleCalifornia’sCrusader

Ray Herrera………………WeThePeopleCalifornia’sCrusader

Sam Zilsman……………………….…….....Derailamnesty.com

Good Grief, this topic is four years old now yeesh. Well, noone can say we don't have longevity....I want to keep this topic alive so I'll just post this here-If there is a Shawna Forde topic somewhere else on IndyMedia sorry, I couldn't find it.

I went to visit Shawna Forde in jail. It was one hour visit and we didn't discuss her legal case she can't for two reasons: her lawyer says not to (smart) and Shawna has some kind of book deal that gives Laine Lawless an exclusive of sorts, I don't know how these things work. I wasn't interested in her legal case anyway, I can't really help but I was interested in her background. I'll have to see if she can talk about that. Ms. Flores (I think that's the right name) the surviving victim is too far away from me to visit even assuming - which I don't- she would see me, I got lost there twice years ago and that was enough.

Glad to see you all are still kicking. I haven't been to an event lately if I can get to one I will post here. It will be nice to look across the street from my side and see familiar faces 'over there'. Take care of yourselves and remember 'drink drink drink' water or gatorade or stuff -don't make me leave my side of the line and cross over to yours and rescue you.

Hey LambsMarch. Take care of your side, and please stop so many of your allies from becoming murderers like Forde. You have insane hotheads on your side, and we have them on ours, but your side thinks you've got the right to kill someone, and some do it. Your crap attracts files. Look at all the Nazis you attract. Look at Shawna Forde - the best "heroes" you can come up with are burglars who graduate to being whores, then finally murderers. And that witch of the dark arts Laine Lawless. She's giving lesbian pagans a bad name.

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/04/minuteman_shawna_forde_poster.php

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2009-07-16/news/how-a-teen-prostitute-and-beautician-morphed-into-a-minuteman-american-defense-leader-and-alleged-killer/

from the Stormfront website:



09-21-2008, 02:04 PM #1081
Jalira
Forum Member

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2
Re: New Members From Around The World, Stop and Say Hello here. Part II


Hello! I'm not a racist but I do have white pride and am sick of living in L.A. and want to be around my own people and culture again. I hope to use these forums for finding a new place to go. I am asatru and also fight illegal immigration. Anyone know of any good communities in the west (but not California!)? I am a scientist and need a bigger town to find a job. Any suggestions? Oh and keep up the pride my kindred!!!!





http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t434311-109/

straight to Hell with Dennis Slater aka ameriKKKan patriot and his website


http://www.saveourstate.info/showthread.php?p=10018

--Алекса́ндр Яросла́вич Не́вский​

Sam Zislman's site was a complete, total, and utter failure.

May it burn in Hell

http://members4.boardhost.com/Derail_Amnesty/msg/1280842918.html

Peregrinis Expectave
Pedos Meos
En Cimbales


--Алекса́ндр Яросла́вич Не́вский​

click the website of the original article to write your comments !
~~~~~
[photo]Joseph Turner mingles with a crowd of flag-waving skinheads at an anti-day laborer center rally that took place in Laguna Beach in July 2005. (photo courtesy of laindymedia.org)

S. E. Williams Staff Writer

“I consider accusations of bigotry and racism to be complimentary. And while I don’t thirst for confrontation, I dont [sic] fear it.” “Our enemies are bloodied and beaten. We cannot relent. Our boot is on their throat and we must have the willingness to crush their “throat” so that we can put our enemy down for good.” -Samples of previous postings by Joseph Turner from his Save Our State website.

Over the previous two weeks, The Alpenhorn News has reported in detail on Neil Derry’s questionable choices related to some individuals selected to fill key positions on his staff. The series began with an exclusive report on the criminal ebackground history of his Administrative Analyst Wanda Nowicki. Next, the paper examined the polarizing and controversial history of his ex Chief of Staff, Jim Erwin, that culminated with his 2009 arrest at Derry’s office on felony charges related to the $102 million Colonies Scandal.



Shortly after Erwin’s arrest, Derry’s judgment was once again called into question when he named Joseph Turner as his Special Projects Coordinator. This selection sparked an outcry that rippled across the county and reverberated around the nation. This time, the criticism was not in response to an arrest record (although Turner has been arrested on at least one misdemeanors related to his anti-immigration activity); nor did it result from Turner’s stance on immigration (for there are strong sentiments on both sides of the immigration issue). Instead, it resulted from allegations of racism that evolved from activities related to Turner’s widely publicized anti-immigration organization, Save our State (SOS). In addition to what critics claim are his confrontational and inflammatory statements that appear racist on their face, there is also his alleged refusal to distance himself from racist organizations attracted to his immigration agenda.

Four years ago, Turner described the mission of SOS as Saving California from becoming a Third World cesspool. Turner, identified by some as a nativist, has continuously denied charges of racism, but he allegedly posted the following statement on his SOS website in 2005, “I can make the argument that just because one believes in white separatism that does not make them a racist. I can make the argument that someone who proclaims to be a white nationalist isn’t necessarily a white supremacist. I don’t think that standing up for your kind or your race makes you a bad person.” Critics believe that evidence pointing to Turner’s racism was confirmed in November 2006 when he began work as the western region representative for the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). FAIR founder, John Tanton, is nationally recognized for his anti-Latino, anti-Catholic, anti-Semitic attitudes.

Further evidence of FAIR’s extreme racist views includes reports that the organization is partly funded by the New York City-based hate group, Pioneer Fund (PF). Several reports detail how PF was allegedly set up by Nazi sympathizers to fund studies of eugenics—the science of selective breeding to produce a “better” race. The reports further state that PF has promoted and financed studies of race and intelligence; sponsored projects based on the notion that blacks are genetically less intelligent than whites; and fostered a strong anti-mmigration platform.

Turner’s Save Our State group and FAIR are both highlighted by the Anti Defamation League and designated as hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center. It is reported that Turner left FAIR abruptly in 2006 after an article that exposed the organization’s racist passions received nation-wide publicity.

In an exclusive interview with The Alpenhorn News, Derry’s chief of staff, George Watson, stated that Turner was only with FAIR as a field representative for a little over seven months and that he left FAIR because he was running for local office (City Clerk) in San Bernardino and also because he was involved in political consulting. When asked what Turner knew about FAIR’s racist history, Watson replied, “I don’t know. I am unaware of what he knew at that time.” Although attempts were made to ask Turner these questions directly, Watson declined to accommodate this reporter’s request—it appears that even though Turner issues press releases for Derry, he is not allowed to speak directly with the press. However, Watson was quick to explain that Turner has not been involved in any immigration issues since that time.

Watson described Turner as, “A very valuable staffer and a considerate person.” He stressed how Turner is always looking at ways the county can improve service to its constituents and cited examples. However, like Erwin and Nowicki, Turner’s name continues to be associated with county controversy. Turner’s name appeared unfavorably in the widely circulated May, 2009 Hueston Report prepared by the Special Counsel to the Board of Supervisors.

This report looked at corruption in the County Assessor’s Office. In the report it is alleged that Turner received political assistance
during his failed bid for San Bernardino City Clerk that was provided by political operatives on the Assessor’s payroll on county time, at the taxpayers’ expense. At the time, both Erwin and Nowicki were employees at the Assessor’s Office.

Turner’s name surfaced again in the recently filed civil suit against the county, filed by ex County Chief Administrative Officer Mark Uffer. In the suit, it is alleged that Turner, at the direction of now disgraced ex-Assessor and previous First District Supervisor Bill Postmus, was directed to write hard hitting pieces for publication, designed to destroy Uffer’s reputation. Allegedly, this effort was in retaliation for Uffer not agreeing to known unlawful acts and omissions that may have been fostered by Erwin and Postmus.

In recent years, Turner lost his bid for San Bernardino City Clerk and his bid for a position on the San Bernardino County Board of Education.

In October 2006, the San Bernardino City Unified School District rescinded its endorsement of Turner due to his controversial reputation. And yet, he always seems to land on his feet. In early 2008, the San Bernardino Police Officers Association hired Turner as a political consultant in spite of the controversy surrounding him. And then in March 2009, Derry appointed Turner to his staff. A number of reports indicate that previous to his most recent appointment Turner was advised to tone down his anti-immigration rhetoric. However, an attempt to locate reports of similar counsel regarding his racist rhetoric and affiliations failed to produce any results. Source of opening quotes www.adl.org.

Ha! SOS isn't dead. The old URL is in a state of limbo, but we still operate at SaveOurState.info now, and have been since 2009. Still doing protests, still active, still alive
Turner is not with us now, and Chelena has been spurned for the self interested megalomaniac cockroach that she is. That means we are not encumbered by her ridiculous cult-like behavior anymore, and we concentrate on ridding our fine state of illegal aliens, and taking to task their sponsors.
Long Live SOS!

just wait till Jeff Schwilk gets his paws on you !!!!!

Cliffy, I'm touched that you would warn me about schwilk. I wish you would have warned me that you were a stinkin' double agent spy before I let you spend the night under our roof. I'm dis-may-ed that you would actuually stoop so low as to pretend you were a minuteman.

Wow, I just happen to be viewing the latest thread replies here. And it's been how many years since this was a current issue? I don't know what made you post right now. I didn't many any posts here recently. I never messaged you about Jeff Schwilk. I was never a spy or double agent or whatever. That was already proven, along with everything I've stated in the past.

~Cliff

I didn't make any posts here recently. The Minutemen here in Orange County are hardly significant anymore. We've done our job in standing up against them. We've moved on to other things. Same human rights issue but different people to deal with. Even the CCIR are hardly doing anything, so why waste our time?

you wouldn't have any close-up pix of that "fake I.C.E agent" dude ? just more evidence of nazis in the SoS

I can check. All my activism stuff is on another drive. When I dig that out I'll check.

Here are some photos from a CCIR meeting in Garden Grove on April 23rd, 2008. It shows Lupe Moreno standing with a guy with a firearm strapped to his leg. And the guy with the ICE hat.

Photo

Photo

Here's a photo from Santa Clarita from January 16, 2010

The other he's talking to once ran for Congress in some district. I think in the L.A. area back in 2006 or so. I forgot his name.

The other he's talking to once ran for Congress in some district. I think in the L.A. area back in 2006 or so. I forgot his name.

check out the first Santa Clarita photo posted above of the "fake I.C.E agent"

now look at the following photo of members of the national vanguard, an aryan supremacist group. it was taken at the SoS/nazis rally at Baldwin Park. the "fake I.C.E agent is right in the middle

check out the first Santa Clarita photo posted above of the "fake I.C.E agent"

now look at the following photo of members of the national vanguard, an aryan supremacist group. it was taken at the SoS/nazis rally at Baldwin Park. the "fake I.C.E agent is right in the middle

http://la.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/11/neonazisos.jpg

Ah, memories.

I thought the issue would be resolved by now, but it's not... but it was nice to see SOS disintegrate.

La Lucha Continua!

For now, the dirty aryan supremacist cockroaches such as joe turner have crawled back into the sewers from whence they came...

but only for now.

Some of these two-legged cockroaches, such as davi anthony rodrigues, have re-organized in a vain attempt to throw a red herring on the population.

We must be eternally vigilent against these groups lest they sneak upon us.

And keep a watch on the dangerous ones. I hope there won't be another Shawna Forde type.

Dennis isn't dangerous. He's a punching bag. LOLOLOL

Nearly five years and still going. The topic that still won't die. I got tired of traveling all over the web for Arivaca updates and started an area on my own site for Arivaca and Forde related issues, all on one place and all are welcome (see the disclaimer). If anyone knows how to get criminal trial transcripts, I would dearly love the help in getting the ones from the Shawna trial. The people on her case have not been helpful in this. I will update as time allows. Hope to see you there if you are interested.