Judaism And Zionism Are Not The Same Thing

We would like to take a few minutes of your time to prevent you from making a terrible mistake that may have disastrous results for many.

You have always without a doubt heard and read much about the political crises in the Middle East in which the State of Israel plays a central role. This is, in fact, an ongoing series of crises with potential to bring the greatest misfortune on the entire world. Tragically many believe that Zionism and Judaism are identical. Thus they conclude that the entire Jewish people is responsible for the actions of the Zionist government and the world crises which emanates from it. This is a Grave Error!

The truth is that the Jewish faith and Zionism are two very different philosophies. They are as opposite as day and night. The Jewish people have existed for thousands of years. In their two thousand years of Divinely decreed exile no Jew ever sought to end this exile and establish independent political sovereignty anywhere. The people's sole purpose was the study and fulfillment of the Divine commandments of the Torah.

The Zionist movement created the Israeli state. The latter is a persuasion less than one hundred years old. Its essential goal was and is to change the nature of the Jewish people from that of a religious entity to a political movement. From Zionism's inception the spiritual leaders of the Jewish people stood in staunch opposition to it.

To this day Torah Jewry remains forever loyal to its faith. Zionists want the world to believe that they are the representatives of the entire Jewish people. This is false! The Jewish people never chose them as their leaders.

The Zionists have deceived many well meaning Jewish people via terror, trickery and false propaganda. They have at their disposal the use of a nearly universally subservient media. Whoever attempts to criticize them puts his livelihood and, at times, his very life in danger.

However, despite the media blackout and easy resort to terror the simple truth remains unrefuted and irrefutable: ACCORDING TO THE JEWISH FAITH AND TORAH LAW THE JEWISH PEOPLE ARE FORBIDDEN TO HAVE THEIR OWN STATE WHILE AWAITING THE MESSIANIC ERA!

The Creator gave us the Holy Land thousands of years ago. Yet, when we sinned, He took it away and sent us into exile. Since that time our task is to wait for Him to send the Messiah. At that time, the Creator alone, without any human being lifting a hand or saying a word, will bring us together and take us out of exile. He will likewise establish universal peace among all mankind and all will serve Him in good will.

Some religious Jews, confused by Zionist propaganda quote Biblical verses that state that G-d gave the children of Israel the Holy Land. They overlook, unfortunately, those verses which say that He took it away due to our sins. They further ignore those prophecies which explicitly describe the last exile's conclusion as a Divine, not a human process.

The Creator has commanded every Jew to follow the ways of peace and to be loyal to the country where he lives.

Torah true Jewry waits patiently for the Messianic redemption. They have nothing to do with any kind of pseudo "Jewish State" and its aggressions against other peoples. They have a deep sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians who have suffered the most from Zionism's false teachings and barbaric actions. The Zionist state is not a Jewish state. The Zionists alone are the only ones responsible for their actions. Authentic Jewry has and will continue to oppose the very existence of this blasphemous state.

May all mankind witness the true redemption.

I admire the steadfast courage it takes to stay true to one's spiritual values and speak truth to power.

I like that they make the separation. It needs to be said. Kudos.

I'm also a small crummy pooch. I've got neither intelligence nor arguments.

You know the moderators can track IP's. They know these posts are all coming straight from your sick mind via your hyperactive keyboard.

Your behavior is disrespectful, its rude and its childish.

And I'd tell this to you, directly to your snout, but you are clearly too frightened to agree to meet. What are you hiding, Toady? The fact that you are 14? The fact that without your cut 'n paste, you know nothing about mid-eastern history? I can only wonder.

Time and place Toady. You name 'em. This isn't a threat. Someone's got to help you evolve. Might as well be me.

I didn't write that.

Ana kalb zift wa'zrrair. Umi sharmoota. Ana walad zrrair ma'aa arba`a-tash I.Q. fee rasi.

Note that when I posed the 2nd time as CT I praised "these guys" as if CT was more than one person and also the source. I'm not disclosing my source. I need to maximize my frightening stupidity. I mean, the real CT is laughing so hard from my foolishness thatr he's also frightened at how stupid I am.

Ana kalb hilwe wa'umi sharmoota.

All I have to say is this: Oseh shalom bimromav, hu ya aseh shalom alenu, v'al kol Yisrael viemru amen

nothing nice, I'm sure.

Tia and Yid and Gehrig: the word "ana" is the same as the Hebrew "ani".

Ok- and the second word is the same as "kelev", right?

You really wanna keep up with this? :-)

Toady has said something really nasty about one of his closest relatives.

Ah. I get it. How good is your Arabic?

I am expecting an , er, interaction ...with some jihadis in two weeks and I'd like something appropriate to say to them.

I usually say things like
"Anti- women, anti-gay... Islamofacists go away"

but I think something in Arabic might be charming.
What do you think?
Todah rabah for your help.

Ana kalb zift wa'zrrair. Umi sharmoota. Ana walad zrrair ma'aa arba`a-tash I.Q. fee rasi shalom fecal

Back in grade school and Junior High I had a better command than today.

I'd say you can draw what you need either by using regular or online dictionaries/lexicons, or other internet resources, like the comments (also hidden) in SF-IMC (using one of the words here for the search). Lee Doyle, not surprisingly, hasn't popped up with his 'just wondering' persona on this thread, apparently because he believes he already knows the meaning of all that's been said in Arabic on this thread since he learned some of it from the stuff posted in his cesspit.

The Origins of Zionism
Israel’s political philosophy is usually described as “Zionism”. This is a partly religious and partly historical idea that the world’s Jewish population has a claim on part of that territory of the Middle East that had been occupied by Palestinian Arabs for well over a thousand years. It was an idea of no significance whatsoever, until sustained outbreaks of anti-semitism (organised anti-Jewish feeling) in Europe in the late nineteenth century.

The religious origin of the idea is rooted in a series of Biblical myths that the Jews are God’s chosen people, that their dispersal at the time of the Roman Empire would only be temporary, and that the arrival of the Messiah (a role denied in Judaism to either Christ or Mohammed) would signal the regrouping of the Jews in Palestine, the land of their forefathers.

However powerful the myths might have been, at no time over the centuries have the Jews shown the slightest inclination to uproot themselves and return to the land of their religion’s founders. This is true notwithstanding the occasional pilgrimage to the “Holy City” of Jerusalem and the continuous restatement of the myths in the form of prayer.

In fact by the time the Zionist idea began to take shape as a modern movement of Jewish political conquest of Palestine in the 1880s and 1890s, no less than 90 per cent of the world’s entire Jewish population lived in Europe and Russia, and had been settled there as communities for centuries. In other words, they were distinctly European in both culture and physical appearance, and, of course, had made important contributions to European culture in the arts, in literature and in science.

Yet throughout this period the Jews often found themselves the victims of hatred and persecution. This was not simply a religious difference – though it often took a religious form. At bottom it was economic. The Jews were always a trading community, with their own religion and culture, which had developed in major towns of the Roman Empire and which persisted into feudal Europe. They played a role somewhat similar to the Chinese in South East Asia or the Asian communities in East Africa. And like these other ethnic groups, they were a convenient scapegoat for rulers wanting to divert popular hatred from themselves. So it was in medieval Europe that Jews were excluded from agriculture, the guild occupations and the professions and forced to act as moneylenders and “middlemen” – typically, in Poland, the richer Jews became managers of estates for absentee landlords, the poorer Jews became tinkers and petty traders – and both were regularly subject to the wrath of an oppressed peasantry. [1]

At the time of the Enlightenment in the eighteenth century, and especially after the French Revolution, the Jews were progressively released from all these restrictions and began to play a full part at every level of society. However in Poland and in Russia, where a majority of the Jews were concentrated, all the backward features of feudal Europe clung on, despite deep convulsions for social change. Soon the deep revolutionary changes that had transformed the rest of feudal Europe would catch up with these countries. But the outdated rulers resisted this in any way they could. And one way was to make the Jews take the blame for the plight of the masses, for keeping them in fourteenth-century conditions. The Russian Czars, in particular, became expert at this. The pogrom, inciting the poor and wretched to massacre the Jews, became the standard mechanism used by the landlords and the Tsars of Russia for diverting hostility away from themselves.

A mass Jewish exodus began which would carry on into the twentieth century. The land of opportunity – indeed the promised land not only for the Jews but for millions of others fleeing persecution in Europe – was traditionally America. By the late 1920s more than three million Jews had quit Eastern Europe and Russia for America, over a 40-year period. Nearly half a million fled to Western Europe. By comparison, the 120,000 Jews who had arrived in Palestine by 1930 were a small minority.

However the unfortunate Jewish immigrants who arrived in Germany, France and Britain in the late nineteenth century confronted a new kind of crisis. This was the heyday of imperialism for these countries, when Britain’s grip on a great part of the world was about to be challenged by Germany.

The imperialist mentality had divided the world into “races” both at home and abroad. This ideological device both served to avoid a crisis of conscience in the European attitude to the “dark races” who, living outside Europe and lacking “civilisation”, could thus be exploited and abused in an entirely uncivilised way. It also offered an alternative picture of the world to that of Karl Marx, who had all too accurately identified a world divided into social classes, not races, and whose ideas were rapidly inspiring the growing workers’ movements in these industrialised countries to challenge the imperialist ruling classes and to demand a classless, hence equal, society.

The imperialist rulers used the idea of “race” and “nation” to divide the working-class movements. By selling the idea that there was something “special” about being “British” or “French” or “German” they could bind their populations behind patriotic flag-waving in the face of adversity. This could take the pressure off the ruling classes at times of economic crises, when cuts in living standards had to be ordered, by identifying an enemy whether at home or abroad.

“Foreigners“ were the enemy abroad and “foreigners” arriving as immigrants became a useful enemy at home. Jewish foreigners were particularly useful as scapegoats because dim memories of the role they had been forced to play as moneylenders, centuries before, could be successfully stirred up.

Western Europe’s already well-established Jewish communities looked on with mounting concern as their poorer brethren arrived in their countries, often sparking waves of anti-semitism. They had known nothing like it before and many recognised that some form of political intervention was essential. Some recognised anti-semitism for what it was, a cruel mechanism of social control which protected the status quo and divided the opposition. Hence, both they and many of the new immigrants joined socialist movements as the best way of fighting this divisive form of racism.

But others drew very different conclusions. Some – like the principal architect of modern Zionism, Theodor Herzl – came to the conclusion that anti-semitism was inevitable and that the Jews should withdraw from Europe altogether and find their “own” homeland.

Herzl was an Austrian Jewish journalist who covered the famous Dreyfus trial in France in 1895. The trial provoked an outburst of anti-semitism in France. Shortly afterwards Herzl began to formulate his theories. His argument seemed to concede the anti-semitic case. In an infamous passage, he wrote:

In Paris ... I achieved a freer attitude towards anti-semitism, which I began to understand historically and pardon. Above all, I recognised the emptiness and futility of trying to combat anti-semitism. [2]

This bleak and pessimistic perspective would effectively provide a justification for not only “pardoning” anti-semitism but even collaborating with it, since anti-semites would themselves later prove willing cynically to promote the Zionist cause.

Herzl was not particularly religious – in fact he was not particularly concerned at first even to make Palestine the target area for the new Jewish “homeland”. He considered Argentina at one stage. However it soon became obvious that the Jewish Biblical myths were a potent source of inspiration for developing an exclusivist and highly nationalistic Jewish identity.

And again, while Herzl was not the first person in this period to formulate the “Zionist solution” to anti-semitism, he was the first to link it deliberately to European imperialism, of which he was a great admirer, as the only means of withdrawing the Jews from Europe.

Hence he set about seeking assistance from the great imperialists of his day. He wrote to Cecil Rhodes, the founder of Rhodesia (today’s Zimbabwe) whom he thought of as a “visionary”. Rhodes had become identified with the mass white settlements in central Africa after countless bloody battles with the African population. Herzl wrote to Rhodes:

You are being invited to help make history. This cannot frighten you ... it does not involve Africa but a piece of Asia Minor, not Englishmen but Jews ... I turn to you ... because it is something colonial ... [3]

Interestingly enough, Rhodes also recognised the role imperialism could play in drawing off an “unwanted” portion of the population who might otherwise become a source of instability:

I was in the East End of London (a working-class quarter) yesterday and attended a meeting of the unemployed. I listened to the wild speeches which were just a cry for “bread”, “bread”! ... I pondered ... and became more and more convinced of the importance of imperialism ... In order to save the 40 million inhabitants of the United Kingdom from bloody civil war we colonial statesmen must acquire new lands to settle the surplus population, to provide new markets for the goods produced in the factories and the mines. The Empire, as I have always said, is a bread and butter question. If you want to avoid civil war, you must become imperialists. [4]

Herzl regarded the previous efforts to gain entry into Palestine as hopeless. He argued the only guarantee of an eventual Jewish state would be one based on what he called “assured supremacy”. This meant obtaining imperialist backing. He recognised the ultimate importance of Britain:

England with her possessions in Asia should be most interested in Zionism, for the shortest route to India is by way of Palestine. England’s great politicians were the first to recognise the need for colonial expansion ... And so I believe in England the idea of Zionism, which is a colonial idea, should be easily understood. [5]

Meanwhile the deepening crisis in pre-revolutionary Russia gave its own momentum to the new Zionist cause. In 1903, two years before the first mass revolutionary uprising in Russia, the Tsar, sensing the impending threat to his rule, ordered a new wave of pogroms. His Interior Minister, the notorious anti-semite Wenzel von Plehve, made the necessary arrangements.

On 6 April 1903, Tsarist police stood by with folded arms while a mob attacked Jewish homes and stores in the town of Kishenev. The mob was inflamed by articles in the province’s only newspaper, which was funded by Von Plehve. In two days of rioting hundreds of Jews were killed, wounded or crippled. There were stories of Jews being torn in two and babies beaten in the street. News of the outrage spread far and wide. There were large protest demonstrations across America. By 1900 already almost one million Jews had settled in America.

(There is a macabre comparison between the massacre at Kishenev in 1903 and the massacre at Sabra and Shatila in Beirut in 1982. In both cases the authorities looked on as the murders took place.) [6]

Yiddish was the most widely-spoken language among Russia’s Jews. All Yiddish publications were banned in the Kishenev region – except one. Just before the pogrom Von Plehve had given his blessing to a Yiddish Zionist paper which portrayed Jews as “aliens” in Russia and called for a mass Jewish exodus to the ancient “homeland”. All other voices opposing anti-semitism were hounded by the Tsarist police, particularly the revolutionaries who played a leading role in organising the underground resistance to Tsarism in all its forms.

As Lenin, who became the leader of the Bolsheviks, put it:

The Tsarist police, in alliance with the landowners and the capitalists, organised pogroms against the Jews. [They] try and divert the hatred of the workers and the peasants against the Jews ... It is not the Jews who are the enemies of working people. Their enemies are the capitalists of all countries. [7]

In fact the revolutionary movement attracted an increasing number of Russian Jews. In 1903 Chaim Weizmann, a leading Zionist, sent a report to Herzl: “The Zionist movement has not succeeded in attracting the best of Jewish youth ... Almost the entire Jewish student body stands firmly behind the revolutionary camp.” [8]

A month after the Kishenev pogrom, in May 1903, Herzl went to Russia as a representative of what was now the World Zionist Organisation. He met Von Plehve. But he did not demand that Von Plehve condemn the pogrom. Rather, he pleaded his help in persuading the Tsar to intervene with the Sultan of Turkey – at this time Turkey controlled the Ottoman Empire, which included the land of Palestine. The Sultan had slowed Zionist emigration to Palestine. If the Tsar did intervene then Herzl would return the favour: he would cut out any attacks on the Tsar at the forthcoming Zionist Congress. Herzl recorded in his diary:

Von Plehve attached much importance to the forthcoming Zionist Congress, obviously because he saw that the Kishenev business was bound to come up there for a frank hearing. When this happens, I could be in the position of doing him a service by cutting the thing short. [9]

After the First World War Britain took control of Palestine after stimulating an Arab revolt against Turkey. Chaim Weizmann, who replaced Herzl after his death as the most prominent Zionist leader, had anticipated this probable outcome. In a letter to the Manchester Guardian in 1914, Weizmann wrote:

Should Palestine fall within the British sphere of influence and should [they] encourage Jewish settlement ... [we could] develop the country, bring back civilisation and form a very effective guard for the Suez Canal. [10]

In 1917, before the British had assumed control of the area, Weizmann was invited to secret discussions with the British government. These led to the famous “Balfour Declaration”, which both expressed British support for Zionist settlement in Palestine and Zionist acceptance of British control of Palestine. The Declaration promised a “national home for the Jewish people”. Winston Churchill understood the significance of a “national home for the Jewish people” only too well.

... a Jewish state under the protection of the British Crown, which might comprise three or four million Jews ... would from every point of view be beneficial and would be especially in harmony with the truest interests of the British Empire. [11]

The shadow of anti-semitism as a partner of Zionism rather than its polar opposite, as the Zionists would claim it to be, hung over the Balfour Declaration. Lord Balfour, the British minister in whose name the declaration was signed, had enthusiastically campaigned for the introduction of the British Aliens Act in 1905 – which aimed deliberately at stemming further Jewish immigration into Britain.

Meanwhile, Arab resistance to British control in the Middle East was half-hearted. The Arab leadership, made up largely of feudal sheikhs and kings, was in awe of the British and incapable of challenging them (though there was and would continue to be mass loathing and rebellion by the region’s poor, the vast majority). By 1920 Palestinian leaders had accepted the inevitability of British rule. However at their first all-Palestinian congress in December 1920 at Haifa they formulated three demands which remained constant throughout the period: for an end to British support for Zionism; an end to Jewish immigration; and the formation of a representative national government.

There were 56,000 Jews and about a million Palestinians in Palestine at the end of the First World War. It doesn’t take mathematical genius to calculate which national group had the natural majority. Even though Jewish immigration more than doubled in the next five years, they were still a tiny minority. Yet the Arabs felt threatened by the jews and cheated by the British, who had always promised them that their demands would be taken seriously.

Arab fears were more than justified. As Lord Balfour put it in a confidential memorandum in 1919:

In Palestine we do not propose to even go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants ... The Four Powers are committed to Zionism. [12]

And as a young Zionist settler from America and future Israeli prime minister, Golda Meir, wrote in a letter in 1921:

If we dig in here, England will come to our aid. It is not the Arabs who the English will pick to ... colonise Palestine, it is we. [13]

From the start, the leaders of the Jewish community set out to exclude Palestinians from as many areas of life as possible. The leaders of “Labour Zionism” founded the exclusively Jewish trade union, the Histadrut, in 1920. It rapidly became the spearhead of anti-Palestinian activity.

The Histadrut called its programme “socialist”. It said that the Jewish state had to be built by the toil of Jewish workers. In lofty statements, the Histadrut insisted that Jews should not exploit native Palestinians by hiring them to work in fields or factories. Histadrut leaders coined three slogans to guide the Jewish colony: “Jewish Land, Jewish Labour, Jewish Produce”. Following these slogans, Zionist agencies leased land only to Jews; Jewish agricultural settlements and industries hired only Jews; and Jews boycotted fruits and vegetables from non-Jewish farms. Thus Palestinians were excluded from the Jewish sector of the economy.

Jewish businesses, tempted by cheap Palestinian labour, sometimes violated the “Jewish Labour” principle. But the Histadrut programme appealed to the large numbers of new settlers who often arrived penniless from Europe and anxious to find work. Only exclusive Jewish control over the sale of labour would guarantee reasonable wages. This fused with feelings of European superiority and the Zionist “mission” of returning “home” into a potent and fanatical movement.

Members of the Histadrut would picket and stand guard at Jewish orchards to prevent Arab workers from getting jobs. Squads of activists stormed through market places, pouring kerosene on tomatoes grown in Arab gardens or smashing eggs that Jewish housewives might buy from Arab merchants. The Jewish National Fund gave its agents large sums of money to buy land from rich absentee landowners or to pressure small farmers who were deeply in debt to sell their land. Zionists would then evict the Arab peasants who lived on the newly-purchased land.

Increasingly, the leaders of the Histadrut became leaders of the Zionist movement. Three future prime ministers came from the ranks of this “trade union”. In fact the Histadrut more and more became the infrastructure of the future state. Of particular importance were the developing kibbutzim, the agricultural communes. An outward show of equality and freedom for its Jewish members concealed the fact that Arabs were excluded (the same is of course true today) and that each kibbutz was also a small military base of the Haganah, the Zionist militia, founded in 1923.

And of course each kibbutz stood on land that had been farmed by Palestinians for a thousand years.

I'm so stupid that I didn't even realize the words "shalom fecal" are in a different language than the preceding ones in the forged post I submitted at 1:46 PM. 'Autoblocked' therefore knows I'm an unadulturatedly comical knucklehead. I'm fucking angry that Tia and 'autoblocked' can understand that I've got no respect for myself and my family.

Someone please help me--I'm a little bitch

Please Don't Feed the Trolls : Wikipedia defines an Internet Troll as: "either a person who sends messages on the Internet hoping to entice other users into angry or fruitless responses, or a message sent by such a person." Los Angeles IMC strives to provide both a grassroots media resource as well as a forum for people to contribute to a meaningful discussion about local issues. Please, when posting comments, be respectful of others and ignore those trying to interrupt or discourage meaningful discourse.

Yid's clearly given up on LA IMC. I'm about to, as well. Toady's a garden variety troll. The best we can do is ignore him.
Come on, Chaver- lets go liven up some dead IMC in , Idaho or Cleveland or anywhere else. Let Toady spill his guts to the wind

Oseh shalom bimromav, hu yaaseh shalom alenu, v'al kol Yisrael veimru amen.

Do you realize your words aren't invisible to him?? I'm open to suggestions, but communicate them in another language he does not understand or even in English but with a Hebrew font -- modern or ancient.

bArowyA shalam bishmaya, hu yefa'el shalam `alayna.

Tia: "All I have to say is this: Oseh shalom bimromav, hu ya aseh shalom alenu, v'al kol Yisrael viemru amen."

As Clinton said at Rabin's funeral. Followed with: "Shalom, chaver."

@%<

Hey, throw a scrap to us non-Hebrew speaking gentiles!

HE GREAT REFUGEE SCAM
by Shmuel Katz
Graphics & Page Layout by Masada2000.org

The story of the Arabs who left the coastal areas of Palestine in the spring of 1948 encapsulates one of the great international frauds of the 20th century. The Arabs are the only declared "refugees" who became refugees by the initiative of their own leaders. The concoction of the monstrous charge that it was the Jews who had driven out the Arabs of Palestine was a strategic decision made by the leaders of the Arab League months after the Arabs' flight.

The Arab "refugees" were not driven out by anyone. The vast majority left at the order or exhortation of their leaders - always with the same reassurance - that it would help the Arab states in the war they were about to launch to destroy the State of Israel.

The fabrication can most easily be detected by the simple circumstance that at the time the alleged expulsion of the Arabs by Zionists was in progress, nobody noticed it.

Foreign newspapermen abounded in the country, in daily contact with all sides - and they did, in fact, write about the flight of the Arabs, but even those most hostile to the Jews saw nothing to suggest that the flight was not voluntary.

In the three months that the major part of the flight took place, the London Times, a newspaper most notably hostile to Zionism, published 11 leading articles on the situation in Palestine, in addition to extensive news reports. In none was there even a remote hint that the Zionists were driving Arabs from their homes.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Zionists" are in hot pursuit? Hardly!

"Ethnic Cleansing?" No Way!

Widespread Massacres? Not a chance!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even more pertinent: No Arab spokesman made such a charge. At the height of the flight, the Palestinian Arabs' chief representative at the United Nations, Jamal Husseini, made a long political statement (on April 27) that was not lacking in hostility toward the Zionists; he did not mention refugees. Three weeks later (while the flight was still in progress) the secretary-general of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, made a fiercely worded political statement on Palestine; it contained not a word about refugees.

Why did they leave? Monsignor George Hakim, then Greek Catholic bishop of Galilee, the leading Christian personality in Palestine for many years, told a Beirut newspaper, Sada al-Janub, in the summer of 1948: "The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab armies would crush the `Zionist gangs' very quickly, and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile."

The initiative for the flight was indeed no secret. One of the famous American newspapermen of the time, Kenneth Bilby, who had covered Palestine for years, explained the Arab leaders' rationale for the flight in his book New Star in the East, published in 1950: "Let the Arabs flee into neighboring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab countries to greater effort, and when the Arab invasion struck the Palestinians could return to their homes and be compensated with the property of Jews driven into the sea."

There is also the piquant report in the files of the British police at Haifa, of how the leaders of the Jewish community pleaded with the leaders of the Arab community not to leave Haifa, and how the Arabs refused. There is too, in the annals of the UN Security Council, a speech by Jamal Husseini heaping praise on the Arabs of Haifa for refusing to stay put and insisting adamantly on leaving their homes. The British police then kindly provided transport and helped the Haifa Arabs across the Lebanese and Transjordanian borders.

When, four months after the invasion, the prospect of the flightlings' retuning "in a few weeks" had faded, there were some recriminations. Emil Ghoury, a member of the Palestinian Arabs' national leadership, said in an interview with the Beirut newspaper, Daily Telegraph: "I don't want to impugn anybody, but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state.

"The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously, and they must share in the solution of the problem."

The policy adopted inside the country was emphasized by the leaders of the invasion. The prime minister of Iraq, Nuri Said, thundered: "We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down."

One of the Arabs who fled later succinctly summarized the story of the refugees in the Jordanian newspaper Al-Difaa: "The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in."

Later, after the fighting began, many Arab villagers who believed the false rumors of a massacre at the village of Deir Yassin "panicked and fled ignominiously before they were threatened by the progress of the war." So wrote the British general Sir John Glubb, who commanded the Transjordanian army. Throughout the war there were two incidents - at Ramle and Lod - in which a number of Arab civilians were driven out of their homes by Israeli soldiers.

The total number of Arabs who evacuated, even according to the British Mandate's statistics, could not have been more than 420,000. This figure conforms roughly also to the figure published from Arab sources, and by the UN.

The central, horribly cruel fact is that the Arab states - who had brought about their plight - denied them residence rights; and the idea was born that they should be left in camps and used as a weapon for Israel's destruction. "The return of the refugees," said president Nasser of Egypt years later, "will mean the end of Israel."

It was in the immediate aftermath of the war that the refugee scam was developed into an international operation. As soon as the UN Disaster Relief Organization started providing food, shelter, clothing and medical attention to the Arabs who had fled Palestine, a mass of needy Arabs descended on the camps from all over the Arab states. The organization had no machinery for identification; so the arrivals simply signed the register as refugees and received the free aid.



Already in December 1948, the director of the Relief Organization, Sir Rafael Cilento, reported he was feeding 750,000 "refugees." By July 1949 the UN reported a round million.

The Red Cross International Committee joined the party. It pressed for the recognition of any destitute Arab in Palestine as a refugee. Thus about 100,000 were added to the list.

To add a touch of mordant humor, the Red Cross authority wrote about the additional people that: "It would be senseless to force them to abandon their homes to be able to get food as refugees."

So these people stayed at home, received their free services there, and were added to the rolls of the refugees.

Thus - and by other more expectable means of humanistic falsification we have, in the third generation, a large amorphous mass of Arabs, all of them comfortably lumped together in official UN lists as Arab refugees, described as "victims of Israeli aggression" and demanding the right of "return."

While everybody in Israel has rejected the Arab demand for accepting the return of the "refugees," the government has not rejected the idea that if negotiations for a settlement take place the problem of the refugees will be discussed. Moreover, there has been talk of "compensation" by Israel.

There have even been voices suggesting the return of a "symbolic few" of the refugees. Israel must, from the outset and forever, unequivocally reject such ideas.


Just Say "No!"

Once and for all, Israel must remind whoever has to be reminded that the responsibility for the displaced Arabs lies wholly and absolutely on the shoulders of the Arab states. Their utterly unprovoked invasion of the territory of Israel in May 1948 was a crime.

Its declared intent was a crime. Six thousand Israel citizens were killed in that war, and thousands of others were injured. It was the Arab states that called on the Arab population to evacuate, all in order to facilitate accomplishment of their evil purpose.

It is a hutzpa of historical dimensions and significance to ask Israel to even discuss giving an inch or paying a penny of the price of the refugee problem. And it is dangerous for any Israeli spokesman to even agree to take part in any discussion of the subject - at any forum or in any context whatsoever.

Indeed, the Israeli government should long ago have declared - but even now it is not too late: "We shall not participate in any discussion of the so-called refugee problem. This is a problem the Arab nation must solve for itself in its own spacious territories."

MAPS DON'T LIE
Map of Israel, Geography, zionism, Israel, Geography Israel, Maps of Israel, Golan Heights, Golan, Hula Valley, Hullah Valley, Palestine, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, maps

Israel: The Most Disputed strip of Real Estate on Planet Earth!
Map of Israel, Geography, zionism, Israel, Geography Israel, Maps of Israel, Golan Heights, Golan, Hula Valley, Hullah Valley, Palestine, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, maps
In a Nutshell... Animation Showing Israel in Relation to the Arab/Muslim Countries.
Click HERE

Unlike Islam's Koran, which commands Muslims to force the entire planet to submit to literal control by Islam, the Jewish Torah promises the children of Israel a modest and reasonable allotment of land. Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, surrounded by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 times her size, 60 times her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide?
Israel is an oasis of Western Democracy and Judeo/Christian morality in the middle of an otherwise totalitarian Arab/Muslim Middle East. For over 55 years since she became a nation in 1948, Israel has sought peaceful coexistence with neighbors dedicated to her destruction. Thus far only Egypt and Jordan have formalized a peace treaty. In reality, these two peace treaties are are questionable.











Satellite Photo Showing Israel
Hold mouse pointer over each Yellow Dot
Only 1/640th the land mass occupied by the 22 Arab States.
Is Israel REALLY "taking over" the Arab Middle East?

.


Continuing...

Israel is one of the tiniest nations on the face of the earth... only about 8,000 sq. miles, 2½ times the size of Rhode Island and only slightly larger than the Canary Islands!. It is only 260 miles at its longest, has a 112-mile coastline, 60 miles at its widest, and between 3 and 9 miles at its narrowest! A very high-powered rifle could launch a projectile right across the country! This is particularly frightening when one considers that 65% of Israel's population is within this 9-mile wide section (Tel Aviv area). Yet Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist" and the "aggressor" against all Arab peoples. For those unfamiliar with the Arab interpretation of "aggressor," it means one who dares fight back against Arab aggression!! So even though Israel may have fought only defensive wars, the mere fact that she resisted total destruction is viewed as an "act of aggression." That's a case of wacky logic but, unfortunately, Israel doesn't have the luxury of picking her enemies!

.


a. 3 miles wide here
b. Golan Heights
c. Sea of Galilee
d. Jordan River... Sea of Galilee
to Dead Sea
e. 1967 "Green Line"... the 1949
armistice lines separating
Israel from its heartland of
Judea-Samaria when Jordanian
forces illegally annexed it. After the
1967 Arab-Israeli war, Israel
regained that land... at which time
the world began referring to Judea and
Samaria as the "West Bank" in order to
try to erase any Jewish connection
to this historically Jewish land!
f. 9 miles wide here
g. Tel Aviv
h. Jerusalem
i. Dead Sea
j. Gaza Strip: 5 miles x 25 miles

The surrounding 22 Arab countries are 640 times larger than tiny Israel yet they expect Israel to turn over all the West Bank, Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights and half of Jerusalem... territory they lost after they started the 1967 war!

Click Here for a Flash Video of "The Importance of Judea-Samaria Mountain Ridges in the Era of Modern Weaponry


Need More Proof? The photo below shows a west-east view of Northern Israel's Hula Valley (a---b). I took the photo from atop the Menara Cliffs, just above Kiryat Shmona (a). Behind me (not shown) is Lebanon. Along the entire top of the photo (light blue area) is Syria with the Golan Heights rising up from the Hula Valley. The distance from Kiryat Shimona (a) to base of Golan Heights (b) is only 3 miles!!! It's no wonder that underground bomb shelters are everywhere!



Read The 2-Minute Warning! for more details on mileage distances between Israel and her Arab neighbors.

For those who wish to have Israel relinquish Judea and Samaria ("West Bank") so that the Arabs can form a SECOND Arab "Palestinian" Nation (the first being Jordan), take a close look at the map (below right). Notice the 2,200 foot high Judean Mountains running North to South 60 miles along the entire length of the West Bank. A Palestinian sniper (of which there are many!) or a rocket launcher would have a bird's eye view of Israel's most densely-populated areas. Israel's Ben Gurion International Airport would also be just a few short miles from the edge of a West Bank Palestinian nation! Israel's capital city of Jerusalem would be nearly encased within Palestinian territory and jeopardizing its ability to survive an attack. In effect, Israel would be reduced to a defenseless nation 9 to 25 miles wide at areas separating Israel Proper from that enemies on her eastern flank! Also, if the Gaza Strip and the West Bank were joined to form a continuous "Palestinian" land mass, Israel would be cut in half! (below left)


Note: The Jordan River runs from the Sea of Galilee to the Dead Sea. It is the physical border
separating Israel and the West Bank (Judea & Samaria) from the Kingdom of Jordan.

Look again at the above-left map. If Arafat and his Jew-murdering, Nazi terrorist thugs ever take possession of Judea-Samaria ("West Bank") and Gaza and call it their State, how will these two SEPARATE land areas (West Bank + Gaza) be connected? Will there be some underground tunnel? Some overhead bridge? Or will the Arabs simply demand a land corridor connecting these areas... in the process, cut Israel in half! This is a prescription for Israel's suicide and the Arabs know it!
No nation is required to arrange the terms of her own suicide. Any peace-making must be at the negotiating table and not upon an autopsy table! If Israel were to turn over land of this magnitude, they would be signing their own death certificates. The Arabs of Judea-Samaria will just have to find some other place to pitch their tents... preferably in East Palestine (a.k.a. Jordan) or in any of the other 21 Arab Nations that surround Israel!


tiny tiny tiny tiny

Israel would fit INSIDE nearly every U.S. state! In fact, tiny Israel would fit into the United States (Alaska & Hawaii included) 768 times! Israel could fit into Florida SEVEN times! The United States is a country surrounded by two vast oceans and two friendly countries, Canada and Mexico. Yet the United States Government has the nerve to tell Israel what it must, and must not do, for her own survival or in the name of some phony "Road Map" for Middle East Peace! Keep in mind that the United States has still not placed its U.S. Embassy in Israel's 3,000-year-old capital city of Jerusalem so as not to "offend" the Arab world's collective sensitivities! Well, we say it's about time for the United States government to show some backbone.
How does Israel's size compare to other countries and regions? Click HERE

MAPS DON'T LIE
Map of Israel, Geography, zionism, Israel, Geography Israel, Maps of Israel, Golan Heights, Golan, Hula Valley, Hullah Valley, Palestine, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, maps

Israel: The Most Disputed strip of Real Estate on Planet Earth!
Map of Israel, Geography, zionism, Israel, Geography Israel, Maps of Israel, Golan Heights, Golan, Hula Valley, Hullah Valley, Palestine, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, maps
In a Nutshell... Animation Showing Israel in Relation to the Arab/Muslim Countries.
Click HERE

Unlike Islam's Koran, which commands Muslims to force the entire planet to submit to literal control by Islam, the Jewish Torah promises the children of Israel a modest and reasonable allotment of land. Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, surrounded by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 times her size, 60 times her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide?
Israel is an oasis of Western Democracy and Judeo/Christian morality in the middle of an otherwise totalitarian Arab/Muslim Middle East. For over 55 years since she became a nation in 1948, Israel has sought peaceful coexistence with neighbors dedicated to her destruction. Thus far only Egypt and Jordan have formalized a peace treaty. In reality, these two peace treaties are are questionable.











Satellite Photo Showing Israel
Hold mouse pointer over each Yellow Dot
Only 1/640th the land mass occupied by the 22 Arab States.
Is Israel REALLY "taking over" the Arab Middle East?

.


Continuing...

Israel is one of the tiniest nations on the face of the earth... only about 8,000 sq. miles, 2½ times the size of Rhode Island and only slightly larger than the Canary Islands!. It is only 260 miles at its longest, has a 112-mile coastline, 60 miles at its widest, and between 3 and 9 miles at its narrowest! A very high-powered rifle could launch a projectile right across the country! This is particularly frightening when one considers that 65% of Israel's population is within this 9-mile wide section (Tel Aviv area). Yet Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist" and the "aggressor" against all Arab peoples. For those unfamiliar with the Arab interpretation of "aggressor," it means one who dares fight back against Arab aggression!! So even though Israel may have fought only defensive wars, the mere fact that she resisted total destruction is viewed as an "act of aggression." That's a case of wacky logic but, unfortunately, Israel doesn't have the luxury of picking her enemies!

.


a. 3 miles wide here
b. Golan Heights
c. Sea of Galilee
d. Jordan River... Sea of Galilee
to Dead Sea
e. 1967 "Green Line"... the 1949
armistice lines separating
Israel from its heartland of
Judea-Samaria when Jordanian
forces illegally annexed it. After the
1967 Arab-Israeli war, Israel
regained that land... at which time
the world began referring to Judea and
Samaria as the "West Bank" in order to
try to erase any Jewish connection
to this historically Jewish land!
f. 9 miles wide here
g. Tel Aviv
h. Jerusalem
i. Dead Sea
j. Gaza Strip: 5 miles x 25 miles

The surrounding 22 Arab countries are 640 times larger than tiny Israel yet they expect Israel to turn over all the West Bank, Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights and half of Jerusalem... territory they lost after they started the 1967 war!

Click Here for a Flash Video of "The Importance of Judea-Samaria Mountain Ridges in the Era of Modern Weaponry


Need More Proof? The photo below shows a west-east view of Northern Israel's Hula Valley (a---b). I took the photo from atop the Menara Cliffs, just above Kiryat Shmona (a). Behind me (not shown) is Lebanon. Along the entire top of the photo (light blue area) is Syria with the Golan Heights rising up from the Hula Valley. The distance from Kiryat Shimona (a) to base of Golan Heights (b) is only 3 miles!!! It's no wonder that underground bomb shelters are everywhere!



Read The 2-Minute Warning! for more details on mileage distances between Israel and her Arab neighbors.

For those who wish to have Israel relinquish Judea and Samaria ("West Bank") so that the Arabs can form a SECOND Arab "Palestinian" Nation (the first being Jordan), take a close look at the map (below right). Notice the 2,200 foot high Judean Mountains running North to South 60 miles along the entire length of the West Bank. A Palestinian sniper (of which there are many!) or a rocket launcher would have a bird's eye view of Israel's most densely-populated areas. Israel's Ben Gurion International Airport would also be just a few short miles from the edge of a West Bank Palestinian nation! Israel's capital city of Jerusalem would be nearly encased within Palestinian territory and jeopardizing its ability to survive an attack. In effect, Israel would be reduced to a defenseless nation 9 to 25 miles wide at areas separating Israel Proper from that enemies on her eastern flank! Also, if the Gaza Strip and the West Bank were joined to form a continuous "Palestinian" land mass, Israel would be cut in half! (below left)


Note: The Jordan River runs from the Sea of Galilee to the Dead Sea. It is the physical border
separating Israel and the West Bank (Judea & Samaria) from the Kingdom of Jordan.

Look again at the above-left map. If Arafat and his Jew-murdering, Nazi terrorist thugs ever take possession of Judea-Samaria ("West Bank") and Gaza and call it their State, how will these two SEPARATE land areas (West Bank + Gaza) be connected? Will there be some underground tunnel? Some overhead bridge? Or will the Arabs simply demand a land corridor connecting these areas... in the process, cut Israel in half! This is a prescription for Israel's suicide and the Arabs know it!
No nation is required to arrange the terms of her own suicide. Any peace-making must be at the negotiating table and not upon an autopsy table! If Israel were to turn over land of this magnitude, they would be signing their own death certificates. The Arabs of Judea-Samaria will just have to find some other place to pitch their tents... preferably in East Palestine (a.k.a. Jordan) or in any of the other 21 Arab Nations that surround Israel!


tiny tiny tiny tiny

Israel would fit INSIDE nearly every U.S. state! In fact, tiny Israel would fit into the United States (Alaska & Hawaii included) 768 times! Israel could fit into Florida SEVEN times! The United States is a country surrounded by two vast oceans and two friendly countries, Canada and Mexico. Yet the United States Government has the nerve to tell Israel what it must, and must not do, for her own survival or in the name of some phony "Road Map" for Middle East Peace! Keep in mind that the United States has still not placed its U.S. Embassy in Israel's 3,000-year-old capital city of Jerusalem so as not to "offend" the Arab world's collective sensitivities! Well, we say it's about time for the United States government to show some backbone.
How does Israel's size compare to other countries and regions? Click HERE

MAPS DON'T LIE
Map of Israel, Geography, zionism, Israel, Geography Israel, Maps of Israel, Golan Heights, Golan, Hula Valley, Hullah Valley, Palestine, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, maps

Israel: The Most Disputed strip of Real Estate on Planet Earth!
Map of Israel, Geography, zionism, Israel, Geography Israel, Maps of Israel, Golan Heights, Golan, Hula Valley, Hullah Valley, Palestine, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, maps
In a Nutshell... Animation Showing Israel in Relation to the Arab/Muslim Countries.
Click HERE

Unlike Islam's Koran, which commands Muslims to force the entire planet to submit to literal control by Islam, the Jewish Torah promises the children of Israel a modest and reasonable allotment of land. Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, surrounded by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 times her size, 60 times her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide?
Israel is an oasis of Western Democracy and Judeo/Christian morality in the middle of an otherwise totalitarian Arab/Muslim Middle East. For over 55 years since she became a nation in 1948, Israel has sought peaceful coexistence with neighbors dedicated to her destruction. Thus far only Egypt and Jordan have formalized a peace treaty. In reality, these two peace treaties are are questionable.











Satellite Photo Showing Israel
Hold mouse pointer over each Yellow Dot
Only 1/640th the land mass occupied by the 22 Arab States.
Is Israel REALLY "taking over" the Arab Middle East?

.


Continuing...

Israel is one of the tiniest nations on the face of the earth... only about 8,000 sq. miles, 2½ times the size of Rhode Island and only slightly larger than the Canary Islands!. It is only 260 miles at its longest, has a 112-mile coastline, 60 miles at its widest, and between 3 and 9 miles at its narrowest! A very high-powered rifle could launch a projectile right across the country! This is particularly frightening when one considers that 65% of Israel's population is within this 9-mile wide section (Tel Aviv area). Yet Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist" and the "aggressor" against all Arab peoples. For those unfamiliar with the Arab interpretation of "aggressor," it means one who dares fight back against Arab aggression!! So even though Israel may have fought only defensive wars, the mere fact that she resisted total destruction is viewed as an "act of aggression." That's a case of wacky logic but, unfortunately, Israel doesn't have the luxury of picking her enemies!

.


a. 3 miles wide here
b. Golan Heights
c. Sea of Galilee
d. Jordan River... Sea of Galilee
to Dead Sea
e. 1967 "Green Line"... the 1949
armistice lines separating
Israel from its heartland of
Judea-Samaria when Jordanian
forces illegally annexed it. After the
1967 Arab-Israeli war, Israel
regained that land... at which time
the world began referring to Judea and
Samaria as the "West Bank" in order to
try to erase any Jewish connection
to this historically Jewish land!
f. 9 miles wide here
g. Tel Aviv
h. Jerusalem
i. Dead Sea
j. Gaza Strip: 5 miles x 25 miles

The surrounding 22 Arab countries are 640 times larger than tiny Israel yet they expect Israel to turn over all the West Bank, Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights and half of Jerusalem... territory they lost after they started the 1967 war!

Click Here for a Flash Video of "The Importance of Judea-Samaria Mountain Ridges in the Era of Modern Weaponry


Need More Proof? The photo below shows a west-east view of Northern Israel's Hula Valley (a---b). I took the photo from atop the Menara Cliffs, just above Kiryat Shmona (a). Behind me (not shown) is Lebanon. Along the entire top of the photo (light blue area) is Syria with the Golan Heights rising up from the Hula Valley. The distance from Kiryat Shimona (a) to base of Golan Heights (b) is only 3 miles!!! It's no wonder that underground bomb shelters are everywhere!



Read The 2-Minute Warning! for more details on mileage distances between Israel and her Arab neighbors.

For those who wish to have Israel relinquish Judea and Samaria ("West Bank") so that the Arabs can form a SECOND Arab "Palestinian" Nation (the first being Jordan), take a close look at the map (below right). Notice the 2,200 foot high Judean Mountains running North to South 60 miles along the entire length of the West Bank. A Palestinian sniper (of which there are many!) or a rocket launcher would have a bird's eye view of Israel's most densely-populated areas. Israel's Ben Gurion International Airport would also be just a few short miles from the edge of a West Bank Palestinian nation! Israel's capital city of Jerusalem would be nearly encased within Palestinian territory and jeopardizing its ability to survive an attack. In effect, Israel would be reduced to a defenseless nation 9 to 25 miles wide at areas separating Israel Proper from that enemies on her eastern flank! Also, if the Gaza Strip and the West Bank were joined to form a continuous "Palestinian" land mass, Israel would be cut in half! (below left)


Note: The Jordan River runs from the Sea of Galilee to the Dead Sea. It is the physical border
separating Israel and the West Bank (Judea & Samaria) from the Kingdom of Jordan.

Look again at the above-left map. If Arafat and his Jew-murdering, Nazi terrorist thugs ever take possession of Judea-Samaria ("West Bank") and Gaza and call it their State, how will these two SEPARATE land areas (West Bank + Gaza) be connected? Will there be some underground tunnel? Some overhead bridge? Or will the Arabs simply demand a land corridor connecting these areas... in the process, cut Israel in half! This is a prescription for Israel's suicide and the Arabs know it!
No nation is required to arrange the terms of her own suicide. Any peace-making must be at the negotiating table and not upon an autopsy table! If Israel were to turn over land of this magnitude, they would be signing their own death certificates. The Arabs of Judea-Samaria will just have to find some other place to pitch their tents... preferably in East Palestine (a.k.a. Jordan) or in any of the other 21 Arab Nations that surround Israel!


tiny tiny tiny tiny

Israel would fit INSIDE nearly every U.S. state! In fact, tiny Israel would fit into the United States (Alaska & Hawaii included) 768 times! Israel could fit into Florida SEVEN times! The United States is a country surrounded by two vast oceans and two friendly countries, Canada and Mexico. Yet the United States Government has the nerve to tell Israel what it must, and must not do, for her own survival or in the name of some phony "Road Map" for Middle East Peace! Keep in mind that the United States has still not placed its U.S. Embassy in Israel's 3,000-year-old capital city of Jerusalem so as not to "offend" the Arab world's collective sensitivities! Well, we say it's about time for the United States government to show some backbone.
How does Israel's size compare to other countries and regions? Click HERE

MAPS DON'T LIE
Map of Israel, Geography, zionism, Israel, Geography Israel, Maps of Israel, Golan Heights, Golan, Hula Valley, Hullah Valley, Palestine, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, maps

Israel: The Most Disputed strip of Real Estate on Planet Earth!
Map of Israel, Geography, zionism, Israel, Geography Israel, Maps of Israel, Golan Heights, Golan, Hula Valley, Hullah Valley, Palestine, Palestinian, Middle East, middle east peace, maps
In a Nutshell... Animation Showing Israel in Relation to the Arab/Muslim Countries.
Click HERE

Unlike Islam's Koran, which commands Muslims to force the entire planet to submit to literal control by Islam, the Jewish Torah promises the children of Israel a modest and reasonable allotment of land. Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, surrounded by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 times her size, 60 times her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide?
Israel is an oasis of Western Democracy and Judeo/Christian morality in the middle of an otherwise totalitarian Arab/Muslim Middle East. For over 55 years since she became a nation in 1948, Israel has sought peaceful coexistence with neighbors dedicated to her destruction. Thus far only Egypt and Jordan have formalized a peace treaty. In reality, these two peace treaties are are questionable.











Satellite Photo Showing Israel
Hold mouse pointer over each Yellow Dot
Only 1/640th the land mass occupied by the 22 Arab States.
Is Israel REALLY "taking over" the Arab Middle East?

.


Continuing...

Israel is one of the tiniest nations on the face of the earth... only about 8,000 sq. miles, 2½ times the size of Rhode Island and only slightly larger than the Canary Islands!. It is only 260 miles at its longest, has a 112-mile coastline, 60 miles at its widest, and between 3 and 9 miles at its narrowest! A very high-powered rifle could launch a projectile right across the country! This is particularly frightening when one considers that 65% of Israel's population is within this 9-mile wide section (Tel Aviv area). Yet Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist" and the "aggressor" against all Arab peoples. For those unfamiliar with the Arab interpretation of "aggressor," it means one who dares fight back against Arab aggression!! So even though Israel may have fought only defensive wars, the mere fact that she resisted total destruction is viewed as an "act of aggression." That's a case of wacky logic but, unfortunately, Israel doesn't have the luxury of picking her enemies!

.


a. 3 miles wide here
b. Golan Heights
c. Sea of Galilee
d. Jordan River... Sea of Galilee
to Dead Sea
e. 1967 "Green Line"... the 1949
armistice lines separating
Israel from its heartland of
Judea-Samaria when Jordanian
forces illegally annexed it. After the
1967 Arab-Israeli war, Israel
regained that land... at which time
the world began referring to Judea and
Samaria as the "West Bank" in order to
try to erase any Jewish connection
to this historically Jewish land!
f. 9 miles wide here
g. Tel Aviv
h. Jerusalem
i. Dead Sea
j. Gaza Strip: 5 miles x 25 miles

The surrounding 22 Arab countries are 640 times larger than tiny Israel yet they expect Israel to turn over all the West Bank, Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights and half of Jerusalem... territory they lost after they started the 1967 war!

Click Here for a Flash Video of "The Importance of Judea-Samaria Mountain Ridges in the Era of Modern Weaponry


Need More Proof? The photo below shows a west-east view of Northern Israel's Hula Valley (a---b). I took the photo from atop the Menara Cliffs, just above Kiryat Shmona (a). Behind me (not shown) is Lebanon. Along the entire top of the photo (light blue area) is Syria with the Golan Heights rising up from the Hula Valley. The distance from Kiryat Shimona (a) to base of Golan Heights (b) is only 3 miles!!! It's no wonder that underground bomb shelters are everywhere!



Read The 2-Minute Warning! for more details on mileage distances between Israel and her Arab neighbors.

For those who wish to have Israel relinquish Judea and Samaria ("West Bank") so that the Arabs can form a SECOND Arab "Palestinian" Nation (the first being Jordan), take a close look at the map (below right). Notice the 2,200 foot high Judean Mountains running North to South 60 miles along the entire length of the West Bank. A Palestinian sniper (of which there are many!) or a rocket launcher would have a bird's eye view of Israel's most densely-populated areas. Israel's Ben Gurion International Airport would also be just a few short miles from the edge of a West Bank Palestinian nation! Israel's capital city of Jerusalem would be nearly encased within Palestinian territory and jeopardizing its ability to survive an attack. In effect, Israel would be reduced to a defenseless nation 9 to 25 miles wide at areas separating Israel Proper from that enemies on her eastern flank! Also, if the Gaza Strip and the West Bank were joined to form a continuous "Palestinian" land mass, Israel would be cut in half! (below left)


Note: The Jordan River runs from the Sea of Galilee to the Dead Sea. It is the physical border
separating Israel and the West Bank (Judea & Samaria) from the Kingdom of Jordan.

Look again at the above-left map. If Arafat and his Jew-murdering, Nazi terrorist thugs ever take possession of Judea-Samaria ("West Bank") and Gaza and call it their State, how will these two SEPARATE land areas (West Bank + Gaza) be connected? Will there be some underground tunnel? Some overhead bridge? Or will the Arabs simply demand a land corridor connecting these areas... in the process, cut Israel in half! This is a prescription for Israel's suicide and the Arabs know it!
No nation is required to arrange the terms of her own suicide. Any peace-making must be at the negotiating table and not upon an autopsy table! If Israel were to turn over land of this magnitude, they would be signing their own death certificates. The Arabs of Judea-Samaria will just have to find some other place to pitch their tents... preferably in East Palestine (a.k.a. Jordan) or in any of the other 21 Arab Nations that surround Israel!


tiny tiny tiny tiny

Israel would fit INSIDE nearly every U.S. state! In fact, tiny Israel would fit into the United States (Alaska & Hawaii included) 768 times! Israel could fit into Florida SEVEN times! The United States is a country surrounded by two vast oceans and two friendly countries, Canada and Mexico. Yet the United States Government has the nerve to tell Israel what it must, and must not do, for her own survival or in the name of some phony "Road Map" for Middle East Peace! Keep in mind that the United States has still not placed its U.S. Embassy in Israel's 3,000-year-old capital city of Jerusalem so as not to "offend" the Arab world's collective sensitivities! Well, we say it's about time for the United States government to show some backbone.
How does Israel's size compare to other countries and regions? Click HERE

So Much Time... So Little Learned!

Question:
The poor [Arab] Palestinians are still living in refugee camps throughout the Arab world.
When will they be able to go back to their homes?
Better Question:
"What in hell are these people doing in refugee camps more than half a century later!"

The conflict between Israel and the Arab world is not about the borders of the Jewish State. Simply put, the core of the conflict is about Israel's mere existence!

Grab a map and look throughout the Arab NearEast-MiddleEast and much of Africa and Asia. Israel is the ONLY non-Muslim nation. It is also the only democracy! Sure, Lebanon functioned somewhat as a bi-national Christian/Muslim nation until Yasser Arafat and his Palestine Liberation Organization [PLO] Arab-"Palestinian" thugs set up shop there in 1970. Soon after their arrival, they set up a "state within a state" and instigated a 15 year Muslim-Christian civil war (1970-85). The havoc that Arafat unleashed upon a once civilized Lebanon has been a standard of his long career. As a direct result of this rape of the the once beautiful "Land of the Cedars," Lebanon has essentially become just another Arab-Muslim nation... in fact, a terrorist Muslim nation. If THIS is what happens when Christians try to share power with Muslims, one can only imagine Jews trying the same! And having Arafat and his Palestinian State alongside Israel's belly is also not such a pleasant thought! So much for the "poor suffering Arab-Palestinians!"

Throughout most of the Arab-Muslim world, hatred toward the Jews is preached in mosques where the "Zionist entity" is portrayed as a diabolical threat. This characterization of the Jews is taught in refugee camps where Israelis are known as the "usurpers and barbarians" who have expelled the "poor Palestinian Arabs" from their homes. It is taught in all Arab schools, spoken over the television and radio waves and written in books and newspaper editorials. The latest "fashionable" spread of Arab propaganda and lies is via the Internet. Even a whole new non-Muslim audience is now being brainwashed with patently untrue tales of Arab suffering at the hands of the Jews.

It is important to note that the world has seen hundreds of millions of REFUGEES... more than 135 million during the 20th-century alone. It's a natural and expected end result of wars. The Palestinian refugee problem is rooted in the 1948-49 Arab-Israeli War. In 1947, realizing that the Jewish and Arab communities of Palestine could not live together in one state, the U.N. General Assembly adopted Resolution 181, which recommended partitioning Palestine into two states... one Jewish and one Arab [left map]. While the Jews accepted this plan, the Arabs rejected it, claiming that all of Palestine belonged to them. And when Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, seven neighboring Arab states attacked it in an attempt to prevent its creation... and to slaughter every Jewish man, woman and child!

In the wake of this war, approximately 420,000 Arab- Palestinians fled to Arab states from the portion of Palestine that is now Israel. Arabs remaining in Israel numbered 140,000. The total number of Arabs who left could not mathematically have been more than some 420,000This is the number according to the British Mandate's statistics and conforms roughly also to the figure published from Arab sources, and by the UN. Conveniently not mentioned was that only 15% of these fleeing Arab "Palestinians" were actually landowners... the remainder were simply squatters! And practically never acknowledged by the Arab world was that 860,000 Jewish refugees fled from Arab countries to Israel! The latter are the refugees the Arab world seems to forget mentioning when they squawk about refugees! For example, before the Jewish Palestinians declared their State of Israel in 1948, there were 350,000 Jewish people in Iraq alone... fully one-fifth of Baghdad's citizens were Jewish! After the creation of the State of Israel hundreds of thousands of the Iraqi Jews fled for their lives. Most went to Israel. Today, there are 38 Jews left in Baghdad. In Basra, Iraq there is just one old woman. In Mosul, Amarah, and other Iraqi cities where Jews had lived for more than two thousand years, their communities have vanished without trace!

This population exchange mirrored far larger population movements following the end of World War II, which involved millions of Hindus and Muslims in India and Pakistan, as well as Poles, Germans and MANY other nationalities in Central and East Europe. These population exchanges were resolved through the integration of all refugees into host states. While Israel absorbed the Jewish refugees, the Arab states refused to allow such resettlement and integration of their Palestinian brethren, preferring instead to exploit the Arab-"Palestinian" refugees to serve their own political agendas. And now, more than a half century since the Jewish-"Palestinians" became "Israelis," many of the Arab-"Palestinian" refugee camps remain throughout Judea-Samaria (a.k.a. "West Bank"), Lebanon, Jordan and Syria. Of course, many of these so-called "refugee camps" include double and triple level homes in which one can find computers and Internet connections! However, they STILL guard their "refugee status" so as appeal to "suckers" around the world! Are you one of them?

We don't hear about any Jewish refugees who were thrown out of many Arab countries in 1948 for most of them were absorbed by their fellow Jews within Israel. The children and grandchildren of these Jewish refugees are now free and productive citizens. Yet, while the Arabs throughout the Middle East cry crocodile tears for their poor suffering "Palestinian" brothers and sisters, none of the 24 Arab countries has opened their arms to embrace them as new citizens. Instead, these refugees and their descendants were dumped into camps of poverty and degradation for the world to see, further fanning the flames of hatred. Ironically, the Arabs who did not flee and, instead, remained inside Israel became Israeli-Arab citizens have fared far better than those in Arab countries!

The bottom line is that today's Arab "Palestinian" refugees are not now, and never were, the problem or responsibility of Israel. The truth is that nearly 70% of the Arab Palestinians who left in 1948 – perhaps 300,000 of them – never saw an Israeli soldier! The remaining 30% either (1) saw for themselves that these Jews would fight and die for their new nation and decided to pack up and leave or (2) were driven off the land as a normal consequence of war.

The Arab armies did not give up trying to destroy Israel after their initial failure in 1948-9. They tried again in the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War. Once again they lost and another million Arabs... from the (Jordanian) "West Bank," (Egyptian) Gaza Strip and the (Syrian) Golan region.... added to the Arab Palestinian refugee list. It must be stressed that the Palestinian Arabs (abetted and "stirred up" by neighboring Arab nations) started BOTH the 1948 and 1967 wars leading to their refugee status! Talk about "Sore Losers!"

The solicitous attitude toward the Palestinians is a prime example of that most entrenched of international double standards -- one rule for Israel , another for everyone else. Not only the Arabs who left what became Israel , but their children and grandchildren have been granted refugee status in perpetuity by the United Nations. Clearly, most of the five million "Palestinian refugees" have never set eyes on their “homeland!”

SUMMATION...

What makes the Palestinian Arabs stand out among the world's refugees is that they created their own pathetic situation or were misled by their leaders. In 1923, the Arab Palestinians were given 75% of Palestine in which to form their first Arab- Palestinian state of Jordan. The Jewish Palestinians were supposed to be given the remainder. However, the Arabs wanted ALL. So 24 years later in1947 this remaining 25% that remained of the original "Palestine" was to be re-divided again into equal portions... the Arab Palestinians would be given their second nation while the Jewish Palestinians would be given their one and ONLY state. But still, as before and as ALWAYS, the Arabs wanted it all ... "every last inch" and "every last grain of sand" as they said then and as they say now! And so in 1948 they and their fellow Arabs in neighboring states launched an all-out war on the this newly-created Jewish Palestinian nation [Israel] and lost. God blessed the Jewish Nation... the Arabs took a chance and lost. Tough Luck for them! Bur get this... now, more than a half century later, they demand that Israel give them what was first offered in 1947! And, during that same half century, Israelis have build large, thriving communities with roads, hospitals, universities, synagogues, electric grids, communications facilities, post offices and other civil infrastructures within that liberated land. Are they to pack up and "ethnically cleanse" THEMSELVES from this territory so that Arabs can simply move in?

Things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews of Israel. Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people and there is no refugee problem. Russia did it, Poland and Czechoslovakia did it and surely the Germans did it. Turkey threw out a million Greeks, and Algeria tossed out a million Frenchman. Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese-and no one says a word about refugees. And the Arabs threw out 860,000 Jews just in 1948 alone! But in the case of Israel, the relatively small number of displaced Arabs have become the world's eternal refugees! The only thing that makes them so special is that they helped create their own refugee status!

What was offered to these Arab Palestinians in 1947 can NOT be offered once again. The State of Israel has developed into a first class democracy and sees no reason to dissect and weaken herself to the point where the Arabs can try to destroy her again! NO normal nation can be asked to do that and neither should Israel! The world should have far more important things to concern itself with other than the Arabs' constant belly-aching! As they say, "Get a Life, Already!"


"But I Don't Wanna Get a Life!"
Arab Palestinian children are suckled on their mother's milk
which is then blended with large doses of anti-Semitism!

Reality Check

1. The Arab "Palestinians" [back by the Arab World] remake history to serve their own interests, and their tales of woe and suffering are in reality intended to propagandize others into blaming Israel for all their problems.

2. From 1948 until the present, the actual number of Arabs who left "Palestine" as refugees decline through natural attrition and today they only number between 50,000 and 150,000. However, the United Nations (with its large anti-democratic, anti-Western and Arab-Muslim blocs) has see fit to confer official refugee status on ALL descendants of the original 1948 and 1967 Arab-"Palestinian" refugees. And so, instead of just 50,000 to 150,000 refugees, their numbers have inflated to between 3-5 MILLION! Talk about "hyper-inflation!" Talk about "cooking the books!"


The "Poor Palestinians"... poor because Arafat's wife, Suha, needs to spend $40,000
a week in Paris! Other so-called "Palestinian leaders" have also hoarded untold
amounts in Swiss accounts and elsewhere. But they are also "poor" in other ways
such as in human decency and civil behavior.
.

More Setting the Record Straight...

1. Click HERE for Joseph Farah's MUST READ "The World's Collective Amnesia" article.

2. Click HERE for another brief, informative article on the Palestinian Refugees

3. Just Added Click Here for another concise article, "The Refugee Scam," by Shmuel Katz



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BEFORE YOU START FEELING

TOO SORRY FOR THEM...

We hear so often about peaceful Arab villages that were overrun by "Zionist Forces" and emptied of their peaceful inhabitants. In truth, Deir Yassin served as a center of weapons trafficking during the many violent Palestinian Arab outbreaks. Deir Yassin and other peaceful Arab villages lay along roads traveled by Jews... in particular, the roads leading into Jerusalem. As Jewish traffic passed by, some of these peaceful Arabs from the peaceful villages would slice, dice and other wise mutilate ambushed Jewish travelers. Operation Nachshon was launched on April 6, 1948 with the aim of opening up the road to Jerusalem. The village of Deir Yassin was included on the list of Arab villages to be occupied as part of that operation.



Massacre of Jews on April 1, 1948... Three Days BEFORE Deir Yassin!

Some woman were raped and murdered. Men often had their genitals cut off and jammed into their mouths! Most were simply dragged from their vehicles and then shot, knifed or beaten to death with rocks... EXACTLY what is happening NOW throughout Judea/Samaria (the "West Bank") and the Gaza Strip. Obviously killing Jews has been a time-honored tradition going back to the 1880s when other Jews died at the hands of these peaceful Arabs' grandparents... and going forward to the brutal massacre of Israeli reservists (click HERE for details) in late 2000 at the hands of their grandchildren! And if you add to these road massacres all the other sporadic attacks and organized "Arab Revolts" against Jews from the 1880s leading up to Jewish statehood in 1948, the peaceful Arabs of Palestine were hardly peaceful at all!

Between 1947 & 1948, 600 noncombatants and women, were captured by the Palestinian Arabs. After the war ended, only ONE made it back alive. This when they had a prisoner exchange.

All the 599 who did not make it back were slaughtered amid scenes of gang rape, sodomy and worse. They were dismembered, decapitated, mutilated and then photographed.

Deir Yassin was one of those peaceful Arab villages that lay along the road to Jerusalem. The Jews had no choice but to remove this threat! The attack upon Deir Yassin has NEVER been forgotten by the Arabs. Even today, more than fifty years later, the Deir Yassin Memorial Committee still organizes vigils throughout the world to continue festering this wound to their pride. What makes this special to the Arabs is that it is the ONLY documented case of a Jewish massacre!!! We, however, prefer to call it was it REALLY is.... a "Pay Back!" And when other peaceful Arabs of Palestine heard that Jews were capable of paying them back in full massacre-for-massacre, there was mass panic as these peaceful Arabs fled for neighboring Arab territories.

Present and future leaders of Israel should take note from this that it's sometimes better to forego formal negotiations and, instead, simply "speak THEIR language!" By the way, four days AFTER Deir Yassin, the Arabs massacred a bus convoy of 78 Jewish doctors and nurses heading up Mt. Scopus to the Hadassah Hospital.

For the duration of the first Arab-Israeli War (Israel's War of Independence 1948-9), 600 Jewish noncombatants were captured by Palestinian Arabs. After the war ended, only ONE made it back alive. That was when there was a post-war prisoner exchange. All the 599 who did not make it back were slaughtered amid scenes of gang rape, sodomy, dismemberment and worse. And THESE are the same poor Palestinian refugees whom the American press corps (CNN in particular) and press coverage throughout the world hold up as innocent Palestinians being brutalized by Israel.

Note: For a more detailed account of the event of Deir Yassin. click HERE

REGARDING THE ARAB-PALESTINIAN
"RIGHT OF RETURN"

"Palestinian" refugees claim a "right of return" to Israel. Of course, virtually none of them ever lived in Israel -- they are the children and mostly grandchildren of those who fled in 1948. The total number of those who fled in 1948 is estimated to have been about 650,000. Now the number who wish to return has swollen to almost five million!

This fundamental point should be understood clearly and without illusion: When Palestinians speak of implementing their "Right of Return" into Israel, they are not speaking of peaceful accommodation with Israel. What they ARE saying refers to a well-understood code phrase for the destruction of Israel. Indeed, the several hundred thousand Palestinian refugees who actually left the area that is now Israel have multiplied into more than 3-4 million people, most of whom are not refugees, but second and third generation descendants of the original refugees. If Israel opened its gates to an additional 3-4 million Palestinians, she would quickly disappear and be transformed into the 24th Arab state! Besides, after all the past wars and organized terrorism against the Jews of Israel, the Arabs sure have a lot of nerve demanding ANYTHING!


* * *


IS THERE A SOLUTION
TO THE
ARAB- PALESTINIAN REFUGEE PROBLEM?

Probably not! There are reasons the Arab world just feeds ammunition to the Palestinians... but neither food nor immigration visas. Arab countries (and even non-Arab Muslim countries) are keeping them focused on Israel and away from THEM because the Palestinian Arabs are trouble-makers and have nothing but murdering Jews and revolution on their minds. They can't even grow a potato!

Sadly, there are many things that could be done for them. Much of the Arab world has enormous petroleum wealth and vast unused territory. And sadly again, one thing is missing: the co-operation of the Arab World! With "jihad" in their collective brains, the 250 million Arabs (and many of the 1.2 BILLION Muslims) will continue devising new ways of murdering Israel's 5 million Jews and thus the conflict will never end until either Israel or the Arab world disappears!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ready To Take a Little Quiz?

If you are so sure that “Palestine, the country, goes back through most of recorded history”, I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country of "Palestine:"

1. When was it founded and by whom?
2. What were its borders?
3. What was its capital?
4. What were its major cities?
5. What constituted the basis of its economy?
6. What was its form of government?
7. Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?
8. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence,
at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?
9. What was the language of the country of Palestine?
10. What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?
11. What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history
and try and find the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary
unit against other world currencies on that date.
12. Have the Palestinians left any artifacts behind?
13. Do you know of a library where one could find a work of Palestinian literature
produced before 1967?
14. And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and
when did it occur?
15. If the people you mistakenly call “Palestinians” are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat by Israel in the 1967Six Day War?

The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. Arab countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel; they still cherish it today.

The fact is, Arabs populating Gaza, Judea, and Samaria have no legitimate claim to nationhood. The so-called “Palestinians” have only one motivation... the destruction of Israel. This is not sufficient to consider them a “nation” -- or anything else -- except what they really are: a "non-"People" led by various terrorist organizations.

There is only one way to achieve piece in the Middle East. Arab countries must acknowledge and accept their defeat in their war against Israel and, as the losing side, should pay Israel reparations for the more than 50 years of devastation they have visited upon it. The most appropriate form of such reparations would be the removal of their terrorist organization from the land of Israel and acceptance of Israel's ancient sovereignty over Gaza, Judea, and Samaria. But don't hold your breath waiting for THAT to happen any time soon!


The notion that the [Arab] "Palestinians" are an ancient people with thousands of years ties to the past is preposterous and they know it. They're banking on the fact that YOU don't know it. Please review the right column at http://masada2000.org and the historical page at http://masada2000.org/historical.html so you too can "Tell It Like It Is!"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Do the so-called "Palestinians" Deserve a State?
2. Are They Capable of Running a State?
3. Are they Terminally Dependant on Outside Aid?
4. Are they Addicted to The United Nations Works and Relief Agency [UNWRA] Handouts?
For the Answer Click HERE for a DeprogramProgram Audio

So Much Time... So Little Learned!

Question:
The poor [Arab] Palestinians are still living in refugee camps throughout the Arab world.
When will they be able to go back to their homes?
Better Question:
"What in hell are these people doing in refugee camps more than half a century later!"

The conflict between Israel and the Arab world is not about the borders of the Jewish State. Simply put, the core of the conflict is about Israel's mere existence!

Grab a map and look throughout the Arab NearEast-MiddleEast and much of Africa and Asia. Israel is the ONLY non-Muslim nation. It is also the only democracy! Sure, Lebanon functioned somewhat as a bi-national Christian/Muslim nation until Yasser Arafat and his Palestine Liberation Organization [PLO] Arab-"Palestinian" thugs set up shop there in 1970. Soon after their arrival, they set up a "state within a state" and instigated a 15 year Muslim-Christian civil war (1970-85). The havoc that Arafat unleashed upon a once civilized Lebanon has been a standard of his long career. As a direct result of this rape of the the once beautiful "Land of the Cedars," Lebanon has essentially become just another Arab-Muslim nation... in fact, a terrorist Muslim nation. If THIS is what happens when Christians try to share power with Muslims, one can only imagine Jews trying the same! And having Arafat and his Palestinian State alongside Israel's belly is also not such a pleasant thought! So much for the "poor suffering Arab-Palestinians!"

Throughout most of the Arab-Muslim world, hatred toward the Jews is preached in mosques where the "Zionist entity" is portrayed as a diabolical threat. This characterization of the Jews is taught in refugee camps where Israelis are known as the "usurpers and barbarians" who have expelled the "poor Palestinian Arabs" from their homes. It is taught in all Arab schools, spoken over the television and radio waves and written in books and newspaper editorials. The latest "fashionable" spread of Arab propaganda and lies is via the Internet. Even a whole new non-Muslim audience is now being brainwashed with patently untrue tales of Arab suffering at the hands of the Jews.

It is important to note that the world has seen hundreds of millions of REFUGEES... more than 135 million during the 20th-century alone. It's a natural and expected end result of wars. The Palestinian refugee problem is rooted in the 1948-49 Arab-Israeli War. In 1947, realizing that the Jewish and Arab communities of Palestine could not live together in one state, the U.N. General Assembly adopted Resolution 181, which recommended partitioning Palestine into two states... one Jewish and one Arab [left map]. While the Jews accepted this plan, the Arabs rejected it, claiming that all of Palestine belonged to them. And when Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, seven neighboring Arab states attacked it in an attempt to prevent its creation... and to slaughter every Jewish man, woman and child!

In the wake of this war, approximately 420,000 Arab- Palestinians fled to Arab states from the portion of Palestine that is now Israel. Arabs remaining in Israel numbered 140,000. The total number of Arabs who left could not mathematically have been more than some 420,000This is the number according to the British Mandate's statistics and conforms roughly also to the figure published from Arab sources, and by the UN. Conveniently not mentioned was that only 15% of these fleeing Arab "Palestinians" were actually landowners... the remainder were simply squatters! And practically never acknowledged by the Arab world was that 860,000 Jewish refugees fled from Arab countries to Israel! The latter are the refugees the Arab world seems to forget mentioning when they squawk about refugees! For example, before the Jewish Palestinians declared their State of Israel in 1948, there were 350,000 Jewish people in Iraq alone... fully one-fifth of Baghdad's citizens were Jewish! After the creation of the State of Israel hundreds of thousands of the Iraqi Jews fled for their lives. Most went to Israel. Today, there are 38 Jews left in Baghdad. In Basra, Iraq there is just one old woman. In Mosul, Amarah, and other Iraqi cities where Jews had lived for more than two thousand years, their communities have vanished without trace!

This population exchange mirrored far larger population movements following the end of World War II, which involved millions of Hindus and Muslims in India and Pakistan, as well as Poles, Germans and MANY other nationalities in Central and East Europe. These population exchanges were resolved through the integration of all refugees into host states. While Israel absorbed the Jewish refugees, the Arab states refused to allow such resettlement and integration of their Palestinian brethren, preferring instead to exploit the Arab-"Palestinian" refugees to serve their own political agendas. And now, more than a half century since the Jewish-"Palestinians" became "Israelis," many of the Arab-"Palestinian" refugee camps remain throughout Judea-Samaria (a.k.a. "West Bank"), Lebanon, Jordan and Syria. Of course, many of these so-called "refugee camps" include double and triple level homes in which one can find computers and Internet connections! However, they STILL guard their "refugee status" so as appeal to "suckers" around the world! Are you one of them?

We don't hear about any Jewish refugees who were thrown out of many Arab countries in 1948 for most of them were absorbed by their fellow Jews within Israel. The children and grandchildren of these Jewish refugees are now free and productive citizens. Yet, while the Arabs throughout the Middle East cry crocodile tears for their poor suffering "Palestinian" brothers and sisters, none of the 24 Arab countries has opened their arms to embrace them as new citizens. Instead, these refugees and their descendants were dumped into camps of poverty and degradation for the world to see, further fanning the flames of hatred. Ironically, the Arabs who did not flee and, instead, remained inside Israel became Israeli-Arab citizens have fared far better than those in Arab countries!

The bottom line is that today's Arab "Palestinian" refugees are not now, and never were, the problem or responsibility of Israel. The truth is that nearly 70% of the Arab Palestinians who left in 1948 – perhaps 300,000 of them – never saw an Israeli soldier! The remaining 30% either (1) saw for themselves that these Jews would fight and die for their new nation and decided to pack up and leave or (2) were driven off the land as a normal consequence of war.

The Arab armies did not give up trying to destroy Israel after their initial failure in 1948-9. They tried again in the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War. Once again they lost and another million Arabs... from the (Jordanian) "West Bank," (Egyptian) Gaza Strip and the (Syrian) Golan region.... added to the Arab Palestinian refugee list. It must be stressed that the Palestinian Arabs (abetted and "stirred up" by neighboring Arab nations) started BOTH the 1948 and 1967 wars leading to their refugee status! Talk about "Sore Losers!"

The solicitous attitude toward the Palestinians is a prime example of that most entrenched of international double standards -- one rule for Israel , another for everyone else. Not only the Arabs who left what became Israel , but their children and grandchildren have been granted refugee status in perpetuity by the United Nations. Clearly, most of the five million "Palestinian refugees" have never set eyes on their “homeland!”

SUMMATION...

What makes the Palestinian Arabs stand out among the world's refugees is that they created their own pathetic situation or were misled by their leaders. In 1923, the Arab Palestinians were given 75% of Palestine in which to form their first Arab- Palestinian state of Jordan. The Jewish Palestinians were supposed to be given the remainder. However, the Arabs wanted ALL. So 24 years later in1947 this remaining 25% that remained of the original "Palestine" was to be re-divided again into equal portions... the Arab Palestinians would be given their second nation while the Jewish Palestinians would be given their one and ONLY state. But still, as before and as ALWAYS, the Arabs wanted it all ... "every last inch" and "every last grain of sand" as they said then and as they say now! And so in 1948 they and their fellow Arabs in neighboring states launched an all-out war on the this newly-created Jewish Palestinian nation [Israel] and lost. God blessed the Jewish Nation... the Arabs took a chance and lost. Tough Luck for them! Bur get this... now, more than a half century later, they demand that Israel give them what was first offered in 1947! And, during that same half century, Israelis have build large, thriving communities with roads, hospitals, universities, synagogues, electric grids, communications facilities, post offices and other civil infrastructures within that liberated land. Are they to pack up and "ethnically cleanse" THEMSELVES from this territory so that Arabs can simply move in?

Things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews of Israel. Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people and there is no refugee problem. Russia did it, Poland and Czechoslovakia did it and surely the Germans did it. Turkey threw out a million Greeks, and Algeria tossed out a million Frenchman. Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese-and no one says a word about refugees. And the Arabs threw out 860,000 Jews just in 1948 alone! But in the case of Israel, the relatively small number of displaced Arabs have become the world's eternal refugees! The only thing that makes them so special is that they helped create their own refugee status!

What was offered to these Arab Palestinians in 1947 can NOT be offered once again. The State of Israel has developed into a first class democracy and sees no reason to dissect and weaken herself to the point where the Arabs can try to destroy her again! NO normal nation can be asked to do that and neither should Israel! The world should have far more important things to concern itself with other than the Arabs' constant belly-aching! As they say, "Get a Life, Already!"


"But I Don't Wanna Get a Life!"
Arab Palestinian children are suckled on their mother's milk
which is then blended with large doses of anti-Semitism!

Reality Check

1. The Arab "Palestinians" [back by the Arab World] remake history to serve their own interests, and their tales of woe and suffering are in reality intended to propagandize others into blaming Israel for all their problems.

2. From 1948 until the present, the actual number of Arabs who left "Palestine" as refugees decline through natural attrition and today they only number between 50,000 and 150,000. However, the United Nations (with its large anti-democratic, anti-Western and Arab-Muslim blocs) has see fit to confer official refugee status on ALL descendants of the original 1948 and 1967 Arab-"Palestinian" refugees. And so, instead of just 50,000 to 150,000 refugees, their numbers have inflated to between 3-5 MILLION! Talk about "hyper-inflation!" Talk about "cooking the books!"


The "Poor Palestinians"... poor because Arafat's wife, Suha, needs to spend $40,000
a week in Paris! Other so-called "Palestinian leaders" have also hoarded untold
amounts in Swiss accounts and elsewhere. But they are also "poor" in other ways
such as in human decency and civil behavior.
.

More Setting the Record Straight...

1. Click HERE for Joseph Farah's MUST READ "The World's Collective Amnesia" article.

2. Click HERE for another brief, informative article on the Palestinian Refugees

3. Just Added Click Here for another concise article, "The Refugee Scam," by Shmuel Katz



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BEFORE YOU START FEELING

TOO SORRY FOR THEM...

We hear so often about peaceful Arab villages that were overrun by "Zionist Forces" and emptied of their peaceful inhabitants. In truth, Deir Yassin served as a center of weapons trafficking during the many violent Palestinian Arab outbreaks. Deir Yassin and other peaceful Arab villages lay along roads traveled by Jews... in particular, the roads leading into Jerusalem. As Jewish traffic passed by, some of these peaceful Arabs from the peaceful villages would slice, dice and other wise mutilate ambushed Jewish travelers. Operation Nachshon was launched on April 6, 1948 with the aim of opening up the road to Jerusalem. The village of Deir Yassin was included on the list of Arab villages to be occupied as part of that operation.



Massacre of Jews on April 1, 1948... Three Days BEFORE Deir Yassin!

Some woman were raped and murdered. Men often had their genitals cut off and jammed into their mouths! Most were simply dragged from their vehicles and then shot, knifed or beaten to death with rocks... EXACTLY what is happening NOW throughout Judea/Samaria (the "West Bank") and the Gaza Strip. Obviously killing Jews has been a time-honored tradition going back to the 1880s when other Jews died at the hands of these peaceful Arabs' grandparents... and going forward to the brutal massacre of Israeli reservists (click HERE for details) in late 2000 at the hands of their grandchildren! And if you add to these road massacres all the other sporadic attacks and organized "Arab Revolts" against Jews from the 1880s leading up to Jewish statehood in 1948, the peaceful Arabs of Palestine were hardly peaceful at all!

Between 1947 & 1948, 600 noncombatants and women, were captured by the Palestinian Arabs. After the war ended, only ONE made it back alive. This when they had a prisoner exchange.

All the 599 who did not make it back were slaughtered amid scenes of gang rape, sodomy and worse. They were dismembered, decapitated, mutilated and then photographed.

Deir Yassin was one of those peaceful Arab villages that lay along the road to Jerusalem. The Jews had no choice but to remove this threat! The attack upon Deir Yassin has NEVER been forgotten by the Arabs. Even today, more than fifty years later, the Deir Yassin Memorial Committee still organizes vigils throughout the world to continue festering this wound to their pride. What makes this special to the Arabs is that it is the ONLY documented case of a Jewish massacre!!! We, however, prefer to call it was it REALLY is.... a "Pay Back!" And when other peaceful Arabs of Palestine heard that Jews were capable of paying them back in full massacre-for-massacre, there was mass panic as these peaceful Arabs fled for neighboring Arab territories.

Present and future leaders of Israel should take note from this that it's sometimes better to forego formal negotiations and, instead, simply "speak THEIR language!" By the way, four days AFTER Deir Yassin, the Arabs massacred a bus convoy of 78 Jewish doctors and nurses heading up Mt. Scopus to the Hadassah Hospital.

For the duration of the first Arab-Israeli War (Israel's War of Independence 1948-9), 600 Jewish noncombatants were captured by Palestinian Arabs. After the war ended, only ONE made it back alive. That was when there was a post-war prisoner exchange. All the 599 who did not make it back were slaughtered amid scenes of gang rape, sodomy, dismemberment and worse. And THESE are the same poor Palestinian refugees whom the American press corps (CNN in particular) and press coverage throughout the world hold up as innocent Palestinians being brutalized by Israel.

Note: For a more detailed account of the event of Deir Yassin. click HERE

REGARDING THE ARAB-PALESTINIAN
"RIGHT OF RETURN"

"Palestinian" refugees claim a "right of return" to Israel. Of course, virtually none of them ever lived in Israel -- they are the children and mostly grandchildren of those who fled in 1948. The total number of those who fled in 1948 is estimated to have been about 650,000. Now the number who wish to return has swollen to almost five million!

This fundamental point should be understood clearly and without illusion: When Palestinians speak of implementing their "Right of Return" into Israel, they are not speaking of peaceful accommodation with Israel. What they ARE saying refers to a well-understood code phrase for the destruction of Israel. Indeed, the several hundred thousand Palestinian refugees who actually left the area that is now Israel have multiplied into more than 3-4 million people, most of whom are not refugees, but second and third generation descendants of the original refugees. If Israel opened its gates to an additional 3-4 million Palestinians, she would quickly disappear and be transformed into the 24th Arab state! Besides, after all the past wars and organized terrorism against the Jews of Israel, the Arabs sure have a lot of nerve demanding ANYTHING!


* * *


IS THERE A SOLUTION
TO THE
ARAB- PALESTINIAN REFUGEE PROBLEM?

Probably not! There are reasons the Arab world just feeds ammunition to the Palestinians... but neither food nor immigration visas. Arab countries (and even non-Arab Muslim countries) are keeping them focused on Israel and away from THEM because the Palestinian Arabs are trouble-makers and have nothing but murdering Jews and revolution on their minds. They can't even grow a potato!

Sadly, there are many things that could be done for them. Much of the Arab world has enormous petroleum wealth and vast unused territory. And sadly again, one thing is missing: the co-operation of the Arab World! With "jihad" in their collective brains, the 250 million Arabs (and many of the 1.2 BILLION Muslims) will continue devising new ways of murdering Israel's 5 million Jews and thus the conflict will never end until either Israel or the Arab world disappears!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ready To Take a Little Quiz?

If you are so sure that “Palestine, the country, goes back through most of recorded history”, I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country of "Palestine:"

1. When was it founded and by whom?
2. What were its borders?
3. What was its capital?
4. What were its major cities?
5. What constituted the basis of its economy?
6. What was its form of government?
7. Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?
8. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence,
at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?
9. What was the language of the country of Palestine?
10. What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?
11. What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history
and try and find the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary
unit against other world currencies on that date.
12. Have the Palestinians left any artifacts behind?
13. Do you know of a library where one could find a work of Palestinian literature
produced before 1967?
14. And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and
when did it occur?
15. If the people you mistakenly call “Palestinians” are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat by Israel in the 1967Six Day War?

The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. Arab countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel; they still cherish it today.

The fact is, Arabs populating Gaza, Judea, and Samaria have no legitimate claim to nationhood. The so-called “Palestinians” have only one motivation... the destruction of Israel. This is not sufficient to consider them a “nation” -- or anything else -- except what they really are: a "non-"People" led by various terrorist organizations.

There is only one way to achieve piece in the Middle East. Arab countries must acknowledge and accept their defeat in their war against Israel and, as the losing side, should pay Israel reparations for the more than 50 years of devastation they have visited upon it. The most appropriate form of such reparations would be the removal of their terrorist organization from the land of Israel and acceptance of Israel's ancient sovereignty over Gaza, Judea, and Samaria. But don't hold your breath waiting for THAT to happen any time soon!


The notion that the [Arab] "Palestinians" are an ancient people with thousands of years ties to the past is preposterous and they know it. They're banking on the fact that YOU don't know it. Please review the right column at http://masada2000.org and the historical page at http://masada2000.org/historical.html so you too can "Tell It Like It Is!"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Do the so-called "Palestinians" Deserve a State?
2. Are They Capable of Running a State?
3. Are they Terminally Dependant on Outside Aid?
4. Are they Addicted to The United Nations Works and Relief Agency [UNWRA] Handouts?
For the Answer Click HERE for a DeprogramProgram Audio

Some courageous Jews speaking truth to power. Good to see.

If, truth, history,logic etc were on the side of the "anti-zionists, then they wouldn't have to lie.

If, truth, history,logic etc were on the side of the zionists, then they wouldn't have to lie.

Oh, and lets not forget anti-zionist false posting , spamming and playing "cut and paste" games.l Its a pattern.

Oh, and lets not forget zionist false posting , spamming and playing "cut and paste" games.l Its a pattern

except that never happened. All the above started with Toady's arrival here. Its rather obvious.

That doesn't make it not evil.

The original post speaks volumes about how far away from Judaism the zionist fanatics have fallen.

Toady: "The original post speaks volumes about how far away from Judaism the zionist fanatics have fallen."

Yeah, right, Toady, we all know what an incredible expert in Judaism you are. Which is to say, not. Your mixture of bigotry and pig-ignorance is on constant display.

As Toady well knows, the Neturai Karta are an insignificantly tiny sect whose only real gift is an ability to suck up to Arab dictators like Ahmadinejad and please leftist antisemites like Toady. But Toady likes to pretend that the NK are somehow representative of "real" Judaism in the way that the entire rest of the Jewish world is not.

@%<

These liars, and advocates of Genocide by Israel, invariably wrap their dangerous cause of zionism in the comfort of Jews worldwide, and act as judas goats to the non rabid factions of this example of secular colonial piracy, that I refer to as zionism.

You're clearly babbling about something you know nothing about, sheep. That's why you're in denial about the level of support Israel has among Jews around the world, and that's why you're tying yourself into logical knots trying to paper over your antisemitism as if it were "progressive."

Here's "progressive" for you -- Hamas shooting missiles at an Israeli high school. One inside the Green Line.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/718143.html

@%<

The more you repeate this talking point and refuse to come down to reality, the more resolute we become in our resoluteness to dismissively ignore your balderdash.

There's quite alot of Jewish groups out there who don't conduct themselves as docile non-thinking sheep:
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
or
http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/
that's just for starters.
Good for them for not being blind jingoist/rah-rah-rah cheerleaders for the zionist terror machine!

sheep: "docile non-thinking sheep"

That's funny, the people you're calling "docile sheep" are slapping you silly in this forum.

@%<

Can't stop lying huh?
find the quote you just manufactured. w/ URL or is being a lying sackoshit part of your job qualifications for being a paid judas goat?
so show me where I said
'the people you're calling "docile sheep" '

ha ha ha ha ha

"the more resolute we become in our resoluteness ."That is funny. Real funny.
Notice gehrig avoids the addressing the links to the sensible courageous Jews who don't support the bigotry of zionism.....Telling.
Who's getting slapped?
LOL

Notice how the zionists would like to portray any Jews who don't tow the pro-war, pro-Israeli aggression zionist party line as "self hating" or "marginal", ect.

There are a number of courageous Jews standing up to Israeli terror out there:
There's quite alot of Jewish groups out there who don't conduct themselves as docile non-thinking sheep:
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
or
http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/
that's just for starters.
Good for them for not being blind jingoist/rah-rah-rah cheerleaders for the zionist terror machine!

Those plucky Indybay monitors!! Not only have they swept clean any opposing voices from SF.IMC and INdybay.org --- now they are down here ...spending time.....endlessly posting???

Why? if they have two much better UNPOLLUTED sites up north, why would they come visit lovely southern California with their diatribes over where and what we should be allowed to post?

What's the matter? Now that you have banned us, don't tell me you miss us?

of course we know why.
To push the concepts of racism and Genocide as is understood by international standards and make a lying ass of Ms. BJ from Santa Cruz, Ca.

Lets distinguish "War"and "genocide" because to use the word "genocide" in the context of the Arb-Israeli conflict is simply an exageration. The Arab side has made threats to the effect of wiping out the Jews, thats a genocidal threat. Casualities of war, thats a diifferent.

What part of 'internationally recognized' do you have a problem with?
Just because it's *not* Genocide when it's done by 'Israel'?

because thats nonsense. Theres no such thing, and because the "Palestinians"' population has quadrupled since 1948, partially as a result of better health care and water compliments of Israel. Cite a reputable source

Look how Dog finds shelter behind an "internationally recognized" spin on int'l law, paid for by decades of Big Oil financed Arab propaganda and spread far and wide to virtually all corners of the earth and cyber. But then again he doesn't want to think for himself and part with his contortions of reality that suit his morbid agenda so neatly. That's too dangerous for the antisemitic house of cards he constructed.

-because thats nonsense. Theres no such thing-
Because *you* say so?
Don't make me laugh. Here, once again for the new reader,
Genocide
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Genocide is defined by the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG) Article 2 as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

So KMA...

He's a lily livered blowhard, too. What a putz.

Hey, nessie, you invertibrate, you keep dodging the question. A person might think you were afraid to answer, which sure knocks a big hole in your empty swagger.

Is Wendy Campbell an antisemite?

@%<

An ad hominem is not a rebuttal.

Ah... so it is racist Dog & ilk who get to decide that Israel acts with an "intent to destroy". Either that or he relies on majority world public opinion on this matter, and -- surprise surprise -- never bothers to question how that majority-held conviction was created. Serves him worderfully. Hopefully he doesn't actually expect us to take his transparently tendentious opinion as mathematically proven or objective. For someone fond of slamming B. Johnson as a "sackOshit", he takes that title in flying colors, especially brown.

By that definition, its a war not genocide;

That you can't tell the difference;

That there is in fact no such international opinion or we wouldn';t see a wikipoedia quote;

and Nessie can't answer questions because he prefers to incite rather than anything else

War?
War is an armed dispute between nations.
Your side doesn't even admit to the existence of Palestine.
Funny definition you have of Genocide.
And to the Palestinians, I'm sure it seems like a war against them.

What is lacking is any parody in the levels of force and terror.

Hard to believe you even typed this:
-That there is in fact no such international opinion-

I suppose the UN is not international?
Hell, America is the only nation that has garnished more resolutions against it than Israel. For the usual outrages.
Call it baby powder, if you need to.

Not only are individual opinions on whether a Palestine already exits irrelevant to war's definition, but even if Israel hadn't officially recognized the existence of a Palestinian nation -- aside from a yet to exist Palestine; you're adept at trying to perpetuate confusion -- a state of war is something with measurable objective criteria existing independently of any one side's judgements about the opponent. Next you might toss out the chewed lie that the Palies only fight with C-4 and rocks.

I'm not doing anything to 'perpetuate confusion'. old thing, you are merely confused.
It's attendant with your other visible pathology.
Racism has roots in mental illness, you know. Seek help for it.
We are all brothers and sisters.

Ha ha ha ha
really going off here aren't you?

Spoiled baby.
Aside from your worthless lying what else do you have save rants about 'communists'?
Still trying to gift wrap your zionazi shit in the guise of all Jews, worldwide?
What a weasel.

now now.

Sensitive about things being 'jammed' into you huh?
How long has this problem been noticed? Since you became a zionazi?
They must have real nasty initiation ceremonies, that's for sure.
Seek help, sick little brother.

Which of the following do you assert is actually happening thats not just War?

1. any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
2. Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. and forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

If there was the intent on Israel's part to wipe out the Palestinians then there would have been no Israeli built (none of which were ever even considered by Jordan during its reign from '48-'67) hospitals, universities, water purifcation and electricity facitilies in the Palestinian territories, no Peace Process, No Oslo, No withdrawl from Gaza, etc

Which of the following do you assert is actually happening thats not just War?

1. any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
2. Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. and forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

If there was the intent on Israel's part to wipe out the Palestinians then there would have been no Israeli built (none of which were ever even considered by Jordan during its reign from '48-'67) hospitals, universities, water purifcation and electricity facitilies in the Palestinian territories, no Peace Process, No Oslo, No withdrawl from Gaza, etc

It's that people have "jammed things down his mouth" in the past. That explains alot. You really have been victimized, thus transferred this trauma into a delusion of persecution......
Provides much needed insight.
I think I will be more compassionate toward you now.
I don't expect you to admit to being raped. But, now that it has come out, it really makes your behavior more understandable...
Was it a Palestinian?
I am sorry for your pain.

Speaking of hospitals...
The people of Palestine seem to need them more often. Now if the IDF assholes would allow unrestricted use of them w/o toying with serious medical emergencies for the 'different' type ( 'Israeli' and non 'Israeli') of license plates at the many 'check points' since 'Israel' was constructed.
You know damn well you'd like to wipe them off the face of the earth except for international outrage. After all, they 'breed like rats' ( as Judas goat once remarked ) don't they?

I am truly sorry that I hit a nerve--whatever that Palestinian man did to you, its not your fault and you don't have to hate all Palestinians for it...

to avoid the thread you now have pillow fights with another member of your weasel team?
You assholes are raping your own image here, that's for sure.
And you're still wrapping yourself in 'Jewishness' like a raincoat. There's nothing underneath except ugly evil.
And you like to show it.
Mr. 'Breeding like rats'....

I am truly sorry that I hit a nerve--whatever that Palestinian man did to you, its not your fault and you don't have to hate all Palestinians for it...

Was this fantasy triggered by your apparent obsession with bizarro sex (objects & animals)?

Still running away from citing the URL I've demanded you to. Spewing your dung aplenty back in Indybay is by far the best speed of cowardly pussies like you. You know what your site stands for:
Indybay [editorial collective] = children at play.

Editors: in the interest of fairness you should not hide my retorts to accusations by 'Sheepdog' or anyone else.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Firstly, you're confusing me for Bill Levinson who was the person that uttered the "breeding like rats" line. Either that or your Palinazi pukehole is desperate for attention.

Secondly, what could cowardly nutjobs like you retort without taking the strawmen ("You know damn well you'd like to wipe them ngah ngah") off low route?

Thirdly, it's comforting to realize you've hit on some of the truth by referring to your uebermensch Indybay teammate as a member in the weasel team. You only need to step one further by inclluding yourself.

I am so sorry I've been toying with you, I had no idea that you have been violated by the Palestinian man...
Here are som resources, they may help you to be less angry:
http://www.rapehelp.com/
http://www.rainn.org/
Good luck

Typical anti-zionist . They often seem obsessd with bizarre sex fantasies. Its a pattern.

That would explain alot!
That would explain his low self-esteem/need to announce his "manliness" to everyone, ect.
I am sorry to you, too Yid.
If you have been sexually assaulted by a Palestinian, I want to encourage you to seek treatment and not vent your anger and confusion toward all Palestinians.
I hope that you are able to heal.

Why are "anti-zionists" obessesed with bizarre sex fantasies? What would a shrink say about this pattern? Its very consistent and very odd.

-Firstly, you're confusing me for Bill Levinson who was the person that uttered the "breeding like rats" line. -

And this is the one you were going to 'tell on' about LA IMC?
Listen here little weasel, when you see something like that from one of your own and don't condemn it, you're running with these assholes as are all of your crew of zionist filth.
You share the exact same mutual support for the same 'cause' since all of you are in concert infesting this site. There is no difference among you.

"You share the exact same mutual support for the same 'cause' since all of you are in concert infesting this site."

Yes. We all passionately believe in a safe and secure Israel.


"There is no difference among you"

Well, No. Some of us believe strongly in a two state solution. Some of us are willing to try a two state solution. but believe a Palestinain state will simply be used as a base for further attacks on Israel. Some of us seem to believe in "transfer", although I haven't heard them admit that outright.
So, you've got the full gambit from left to right here.

No, all Zionists are not the same. Two Jews, three opinions, all that.

It'll be a cold day in hell before I agree to be taught any ethics by a virulent double standard wielding antisemite like you that constantly refuses to berate his anti-Zionist (ahem) fellow travellers who regularly post horrible anti-Jewish messages, both in graphics and verbiage. First thing for you to do is to get out of bed with the neo-Nazis your movement has joined forces with.
Now put a sock in your diabolic puke hole.

lots of high pressure sh*t under the lid, there, Judasgoat. Sure know how to rattle your chain there. Ha ha. Too funny, Words of fury, meaning little ha ha ha ha
As for Tia, yes you are all the same. I also notice your condemnation exists only for security/ public relational reasons and not for ideology as you remain 'neutral' in issues one with a proposed conscience would be compelled to object.
You are all the enemy, minor differences not withstanding.

"There is no difference among you. "

The central thesis of the bigot.

@%<

"yes you are all the same"

The bigot confirms his bigotry.

@%<

Swim with els and share the same slime. Who cares if one has spots?
And what a fine catch of els we have here.
It's the Slime that stays the same.

Don't assume that's an anti-Zionist. More likely, it's a Zionist sock puppet.

All of us know better, Nessie. Pro-Israel people want to discuss issues, history, politics etc. Anti-zionists want to name call, false post, post porn, lie, spam etc. Its a repeated pattern.

Don't assume that's an not an anti-Zionist. More likely, it's a foolish anti-Zionist sick puppy.

He spamed his way in here, and went running to indymedia watch when he was blocked. Thats why he's been behaving- its not a change of character on his part- its in response to being blocked.

Wouldn't consider it that importatnt, and I've checked out that site.--Total bullshit. You couldn't pay me to run to those pigs.

"You know damn well you'd like to wipe them off the face of the earth except for international outrage. "

BECKY: I just don't see any examples of this oft-touted hatred of the Palestinian people by either Jews or Zionists? Where are the Israeli textbooks preaching that Palestinians are "the sons of apes and pigs?"

And in these textbooks, where are the maps which show Israel without depicting the Palestinian Authority?

Where are the Rabbis speaking out at synagogues urging Jews to go and murder Palestinians?

Where in Israel are the collaborators with Palestine being dragged into the street and lynched?

Where are the teenage Israeli suicide bombers?

where are the schools and streets named after Israeli "martyrs" who committed targeted mass murder of civilians?

Where are the statements made in the Knessett urging the Israeli govt. to "cleanse" "transfer" or "murder" the Palestinian population?

Please post some URL's to any of these so that we know your charge is real and not just an unfounded accusation you made up because of your own hatred of Jews and Israel.

See Becky Run
http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/05/1823310_comment.php#1825310

Page Views per user - shows significant decrease in the last three months.

But even these statistics don't reflect the latest of the draconian changes that have taken place with the last several weeks. It would be interesting to see those figures incorported in to these stats.

SEE BECKY RUN WRITES: "See Becky run."

but when you go to the link provided, my comment is mysteriously NOT THERE!

Why is that, you wonder?

ANSWER:

see: http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/05/1823310.php

Look at the part where is shows that of the NINETEEN COMMENTS POSTED only TWO have been allowed to remain posted. Obviously the Becky Johnson comment was one that was censored.

Indybay.org monitors are the enemies of freedom of speech. Here is just more proof.

Speech is free. Bandwidth is not. The Zionist propaganda mill is perfectly capable of broadcasting their filth on bandwidth they themselves pay for. Instead, they leech off Indymedia like the parasite freeloaders they are. Then, when their free ride is over, they whine about free speech. Never once do they offer to pay for the broadcasting of anti-Zionist propaganda. What hypocrites. How typical.

Speech is free. Bandwidth is not. The anti-Zionist propaganda mill is perfectly capable of broadcasting their filth on bandwidth they themselves pay for. Instead, they leech off the entire Indymedia network like the parasite freeloaders they are. Then, when their free ride is called on, they whine about wasting bandwidth. Never once did they offer to pay for the broadcasting of pro-David Duke anti-Zionist propaganda. What hypocrites. How typical.

How much have I contributed to Indybay in the last two years. (no, I mean $ you dolt)
Do you know?
Then don't tell tales.

Maybe nessie could tell us how much money he's contributed to LA Indymedia's bandwidth fund?

Hey, nessie, the "my collective pays for the bandwidth" argument works only when you're on your own site. And _nobody's_ on _your_ own site.

@%<

Once again they demonstrate what fundamentally dishonest people they are:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

* * * * *

Zionists love to sign other people's names. False flag ops are their specialty. We cannot help but wonder how many atrocities they have signed Osama bin Laden's name to, or Hamas' or the PLO's.

Once again he demonstrates what fundamentally dishonest a person he is:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1962248

(snip)

Sometimes he takes something that a Zionist has written, subtly alters its meaning by changing a few words, and posts it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

* * * * *

Anti-Zionists love to sign other people's names. False flag ops are their specialty. We cannot help but wonder how many atrocities they have signed Ehud Barak's name to, or Irgun's or the Haganah's.

>Hey, nessie, the "my collective pays for the bandwidth" argument works only when you're on your own site.

That's a straw man. It's not what I said. Putting words into other people's mouths is rude. It's dishonest. It's very bad form.

It's also getting boring. Can't they do something new for a change?

Nessie, the Spam King, posts this "Black Ops" link again and again---either to confuse readers who may believe that some ranting, raving anti-semite posted a previous post--and he dearly would like to blame the ZZZIIIIOOOONISTS for it--whether they had any culpability or not--or, far more likely, as advertising to try and draw back some of the readers his site once had before he "purified" it of anyone who disagrees with HIM!!

ANOTHER "ZIONIST "LIE WRITES: "Speech is free. Bandwidth is not. The Zionist propaganda mill is perfectly capable of broadcasting their filth on bandwidth they themselves pay for. Instead, they leech off Indymedia like the parasite freeloaders they are. Then, when their free ride is over, they whine about free speech."

BECKY: You betcha I am going to complain about the curtailment of freedom of speech!!! IMC was FOUNDED as an ingenious way to get AROUND continuous corporate censorship or smear jobs of OUR issues. I know because I was a member of the LA.IMC in August of 2000 and later at Santa Cruz Indymedia in my home town.

I don't need no smug, self-righteous, agenda-driven, political-correctness "expert" reading all of the posts and under the cover of secrecy, pseudonyms, and entirely lacking even the mask of due process DECIDES what the public should be ALLOWED to read on Indymedia!!

Some animals are more equal than other animals, huh?

>Hey, nessie, the "my collective pays for the bandwidth" argument works only when you're on your own site.

That's a not straw man. It's what nessie said. Lying about putting words into other people's mouths is rude. It's dishonest. It's very bad form.

It's also getting boring. Can't he do something new for a change?

Once again they demonstrate what fundamentally dishonest people they are:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248

(snip)

Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

* * * * *

Zionists love to sign other people's names. False flag ops are their specialty. We cannot help but wonder how many atrocities they have signed Osama bin Laden's name to, or Hamas' or the PLO's.

Once again he demonstrates what fundamentally dishonest a person he is:


http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1962248

(snip)

Sometimes he takes something that a Zionist has written, subtly alters its meaning by changing a few words, and posts it under the name of the original author.

(snip)

* * * * *

Anti-Zionists love to sign other people's names. False flag ops are their specialty. We cannot help but wonder how many atrocities they have signed Ehud Barak's name to, or Irgun's or the Haganah's.

Get a grip on reality.
You individuals will be welcome here when hell freezes over.

Calling human beings the following is racist and/or offensive:

Gooks, slopes, nips, niggers, spics, kikes, fags, waps, vermin, detritus, bums, layabouts, whores, bitches, cunts, garbage, wetbacks, freeloaders, welfare queens, ragheads, towelheads, sand niggers, savages, darkies, jungle bunny, jigaboo, spawn, or termites.

And you have the audacity to claim that WE should be kicked out for our behavior!!

Just like his pal 'nessie', he reckons he's got a birthright to use these choice words and be considered progressive at the same time while no one from the opposite camp is allowed to utiolize these slurs against him. He's of the Super Beings. That's neo-Nazi mentality sans the swastika.

Critical Thinker did not post the Lead article. That means that someone committed fraud, by posting under his name.

Nessie would have you believe that it was a "Zionist" who posted as part of a "black op" (URL FREQUENTLY provided!) instead of the idiot and cheating anti-zionist who most assuredly forged the article.

Judaism is founded on belief in God.

According to Judaism, we are all God's children and he loves us all equally---Jew and non-Jew alike.

So much for the "chosen people" superiority myth!

For the activist, belief in God is very liberating. Otherwise, what is the highest authority in the world? Answer: the Government! Isn't that depressing?

For those among us who are Theists, we don't give our alliegance to the govt. but to God---as interpreted by US!!
That's right. Judaism is a guide. Christianity is a guide. Islam is a guide. But the exact nature or relationship of the individual to his/her deity of choice, it up to the individual.
Belief in God frees us from granting the govt. our ultimate devotion.

As much as you may disdain the Jehovah's Witnesses, you have to admire their often heroic resistance to the draft because they take "thou shalt not kill" so seriously.

It is because they are more beholden to God than to the government-de-jour.

Back to Judaism---God said that he would protect the Jewish people from extinction. While there has got to be some kind of supreme irony involved here, as the Jews have been one of the most persecuted people on earth, you have to admit, in 2006 there is still a Jewish people. And the Jews can stretch their ancestry back some 3, 500 years!

God said that the people who support Israel will be exalted and those who oppose Israel vanquished.

I'm paraphrasing here, and I'm not Jewish so I might not have the wordking exactly correct, but you get the idea.

Hitler opposed the Jews and Israel. He is dead.
Nazi Germany opposed the Jews and Israel. Their regime was conquered in less than two decades.
The Jews in the USA supported Israel. The USA has prospered and advanced beyond any other nation in the history of the earth.
The 8 Arab armies in 1948 opposed the Jews and Israel.
they lost! even though they were militarily superior in numbers and weapons.
the Arab nations continue to languish with low GNP's, low literacy rates, high infant mortality rates, and little in the way of capital investments.
Denmark alone stood up to the anti-semiticism of the 1930's
Today Denmark has the lowest infant mortality rate in the world and the people have a very high standard of living.

If Indymedias declare themselves against the Jewish people and against Israel, they will likely not continue to grow and prosper. We've already seen some of this already at SF.IMC and now at Indybay.org.

-
Nessie would have you believe that it was a "Zionist" who posted as part of a "black op" (URL FREQUENTLY provided!) instead of the idiot and cheating anti-zionist who most assuredly forged the article.-
that would be possible if one had never followed these over loaded threads seeing the source of this abuse.
Funny how it all arrived with your crew of weasels.

And you.

Are you the self-appointed ambassador for LA.IMC?

Well, your hostility, non-stop verbal abuse, name-calling, knee-jerk anti-semitism and clever insinuations make me feel right at home! Just like Santa Cruz IMC and Indybay.org!

However, reading the fine and informative comments of Gehrig, Critical Thinker (the real one), Tia, Autoblocked@indybay.org, , Schtarker Yid, Scapegoated Jew, and a few others make it worth while to come back again and again.

I can't say how informative this has been. I've learned so much, and I am more convinced than ever that the anti-Zionists have neither the facts, history, nor any moral high ground on this issue. I've followed up on so many claims made here against the Israelis only to find the facts were cherry-picked, glaring ommissions were made, or the very foundation of the whole argument was fundamentally wrong.

I am not saying that the Israelis have not made mistakes. Dayan should have seized the Temple Mount for Israel. The Gaza pullout was a tactical military mistake. The IDF used too large an explosive to get Shahid. The prisoner releases have come back to haunt the Israelis. Bringing Arafat out of banishment was a HUGE mistake---but one made under USA pressure.

Do the IDF machine-gun children in the street? NO!!
Does the IDF murder civilians? Never!
Is the security barrier on stolen Palestinian land? Ridiculous!
Does the Palestinian defense consist of boys throwing rocks? Hardly!
Is Israel an apartheid state? Nonsense!!

Glad to debate one and all on these issues.

From the Indybay field guide to "Antizionist Trolls"
simple distinction
by gehrig • Monday, Oct. 24, 2005 at 7:06 PM

It's simple. If a post threatens to beat you up, then it's Toothless. If a post looks like it was typed by a cat walking over a keyboard, then it's JA. And if a post looks like it was typed from someone hiding underneath his bed because he can't afford the tinfoil for a good tinfoil hat, then it's nessie.

No JA is not one of ours. We don't want him. If you leave him on our doorstep, we'll sneak out the back way. Just because he is an embarrassment to your side, doesn't mean is one of ours.

I could be wrong but am I, in someone's opinion violating some guideline?
If it's a mistake I forgive you. This was in reference to Ms. BJ
by Sheepdog • Sunday, May. 28, 2006 at 10:06 PM

whaaa whaaa

- non-stop verbal abuse, name-calling-
now I could lower myself to JA's level but since he was of of yours, I understand.
Me, I only call you for what I've seen from you.
just a shill, liar and tool.

Apparently you have a problem with that.
..........

Now what's the problem with that post? Was it unsupportable? I think not.

has grown tired of your constant verbal abuse of a co-founder of this forum and has been giving you some of your own medicine lately. But you can pin it on a Zionist conspiracy to silence you via the report button, which would have at least a kernel of truth to it.

just a carnal kernel.

Just don't shut down the site.
So you're still saying zionism and Judaism are the same thing?

Since you don't know anything about Judaism, why do you think you can discuss the relationship between Judaism and Jewish nationalism ("Zionism")?

In the world of the "anti-zionists" Jews are the only people who cannot assert their right to national self-determination. Why don't you explain that bit of hypocracy first?

no thanks I've eaten already.
Jewish Nationalism like National Socialism come from the same roots.
Are you going to tell me god said it was okay to re-conquer the holy lands?

communism, the principle of worker owned and controlled production, is worse than the Nazis?
How so?
Stop frothing, 'cause you sound lame.

what does that have to do with the fact that zionism loves to wrap itself in 'Jewishness' to spread its crimes over even the non involved or anti-zionist Jews?

Zionism exists independent of "Jewishness". It has both secular and spiritual roots.
You don't need to be Jewish to be Zionist.
Nott all Jews are Zionist.

And many people know it but not enough. More Jews need to speak out as one of their own for their own self interests.

FROM THE LEAD ARTICLE: "Torah true Jewry waits patiently for the Messianic redemption. They have nothing to do with any kind of pseudo "Jewish State" and its aggressions against other peoples."

BECKY: This is a reference to the Neturei Karta. This extremeist cult follow a bizzare line--in which they don't acknowledge that the UN GA resolution 181 was the gentile world giving the Jews permission to re-occupy Israel, something the orthodox and even the Lubavitch Jews have accepted. This is a very small group, numbering between 1,000 - 5,000. There extremist views are anti-Israel, and they are often used by the enemies of Israel for propaganda purposes.

from: Wikipedia at : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta

NETUREI KARTA CALLED "WILD FRINGE"GROUP

Mainstream Orthodox Jewish communities, including some who oppose Zionism, have denounced Neturei Karta's activities; according to The Guardian, "[e]ven among Charedi, or ultra-Orthodox circles, the Neturei Karta are regarded as a wild fringe". [1] Neturei Karta claims that the mass media deliberately downplays their viewpoint and makes them out to be few in number. Their protests are usually attended by just a few dozen people.

GROUP STILL WAITING FOR THE MESSIAH
Adherents of Neturei Karta stress those portions in rabbinic literature which state that the Jewish people were first sent into exile from the land of Israel for their sins. Additionally, they maintain the view that any form of forceful recapture of Israel is a violation of divine will (Babylonian Talmud, tractate Ketuboth 111). They believe that the true Commonwealth of Israel can only be reestablished with the coming of the Messiah.

Neturei Karta teaches that the exile of the Jews can end only with the arrival of the Messiah, and that human attempts return to the Land of israel are sinful.

NETUREI KARTA SUPPORT PALESTINIAN TERRORISM

In recent years, Neturei Karta has aligned itself with Yasser Arafat, the Palestine Liberation Organization and later, the Palestinian Authority. Other Jewish groups have criticized this alignment, describing it as condoning or even abetting Palestinian terrorism.

LEGITIMATE JEWISH GROUPS CONDEMN NETUREI KARTA

the group was condemned by many Orthodox and Hasidic Jewish organizations, including, but not limited to:

Anshei Sfard; Satmar; Bobov; Emunas Yisroel; Ger; Belz; Bnei Yehuda, Nitra; Vizhnitz; Munkacz; Vien; Klausenberg; Torah Vodaas; Novominsk; Torah Temimah; Chasam Sofer; Kiryas Joel - Monroe; Puppa; Young Israel of Brooklyn; Cong. Shomrei Shabbos; United Lubavitch Organizations of Crown Heights; Kamenitz; Agudath Israel 14th Avenue; United Jewish Organizations of Williamsburg; Boro Park Jewish Council; Debrecin; US Friends of the Eda Haredit; Lakewood Yeshiva.

ONLY A FRINGE ELEMENT WITHIN NETUREI KARTA SUPPORT THE PALESTINIAN CAUSE

A fringe element among Neturei Karta took proactive steps to condemn Israel and bring about its eventual dismantling until the coming of the Messiah. Chief among these is Rabbi Moshe Hirsch, Neturei Karta's self-proclaimed "Foreign Minister", author of its prayer book Siddur Vilna, who served in Yasser Arafat's cabinet as Minister for Jewish Affairs.

NETUREI KARTA LEADER CALLS FOR THE MURDER OF JEWS AND INFIDELS

In the UK, ... Abu Hamza of the Finsbury Park Mosque, known colloquially as Captain Hook, (has) ... in recordings... called for the murder of Jews and infidels.

NETUREI KARTA PRAISE IRANIAN CALL TO "WIPE ISRAEL OFF THE MAP"

In March 2006, several Neturei Karta members visited Iran where they met with Iranian statesmen, including the Vice-President, and praised Ahmadinejad for calling for the State of Israel to be "wiped off the map." The spokesmen commented that they shared Ahmadinejad's aspiration for "a disintegration of the Israeli government".

PA FUNDS NETUREI KARTA

Amir Rappaport. Arafat transferred funds to Neturei Karta: Captured PA documents reveal that $55,000 given to leader of the anti-Zionist sect. Maariv International, 2 April 2004.

Notwithstanding your lame wordgames, Communism has proven itself far worse than nationalism in history's "laboratory". The empirical evidence has been in for quite a while.
And... you posed a question to which I provided an answer.

"what does that have to do with the fact that zionism loves to wrap itself in 'Jewishness' to spread its crimes over even the non involved or anti-zionist Jews? "

Heed your own advice: stop frothing falsehoods, 'cause you sound lame.

It would seem that there are alot of Jews against Zionism, the Occupation and Israeli violence. In fact, here is a site that debunks Becky Johnson's propaganda right here--don't take my word for it, read for yourself: (at the bottom there are multiple links to multiple groups of Jews against zionism and/or the occupation of Palestine)
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/
Contrary to common perception, Jewish anti-Zionism is not restricted exclusively to the well know Jewish anti-Zionist movements such as Satmar and Neturei Karta.

There are in fact many Jewish movements, groups and organizations whose ideology regarding Zionism and the so-called "State of Israel" is that of the unadulterated Torah position that any form of Zionism is heresy and that the existence of the so-called "State of Israel" is illegitimate.

No one has had to create any antagonism between our Torah and Zionism because such antagonism exists by virtue of the essence of Judaism itself, which can never tolerate the heresy of Zionism.

Zionism is wrong from the Torah viewpoint, not because many of its adherents are lax in practice or even anti-religious, but because its fundamental principle conflicts with the Torah.

Unfortunately, due to many undesirable factors, the view of Torah-true Jewry has been concealed from the general public.

We, the staff at www.jewsnotzionists.org are delighted that with the advance in media technology a substantial benefit to researchers, students, and the general public has been made available. We are elated at the advantage which the internet provides for the presentation of and accessibility to a position so widely held yet so deliberately ignored by many a Zionist-inclined medium.

It is our hope that the information presented on this site will be of benefit to all and that we soon merit the peaceful dismantlement of the so-called "State of Israel" and that Jewish-Muslim brotherhood be restored as prior to the arrival of the Zionist scheme on the global scene.

and here:
http://www.jewishpeacefellowship.org/

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

http://www.jatonyc.org/

http://www.cam.org/~rsilver/jewspeakout.htm

Here's a whole list of resources:
http://www.doublestandards.org/jaz1.html
(for starters)

I just hope more of the Jewish community sees the threat of Zionism as a growing threat to their well being.
This is starting to smell very strongly as a set up to once again produce another racial/religious conflict while the ones who finance these zionist nutjobs, take the spoils.
They must know that the kind of rhetoric being pushed is producing generally antagonistic attitudes towards the Jews of the world.
Look at the tone of their dialogue.
Are we to believe that this is in order to produce a positive or negative response?

If you had learned the facts -- all of them -- you would've found that the pretenses made by religious anti-Zionist movements, like Agudat Yisrael, of falling back on "the unadulterated Torah position" can't passs scrutiny because each Jewish current or stream has its own position on what constitutes the Torah's unadulterated position.

Unedited cut 'n paste is no suubstitiute to learning and critical thinking. The piece does NOT debunk Becky Johnson's claims. http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/ = http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ = Neturei Qarta.

Thank you for the pin point focus on the subject of Zionism vs. Judaism.
Any body besides a religious zealot would just let their heart guide their life.

"I just hope more of the Jewish community sees the threat of Zionism as a growing threat to their well being. "

Sit right back, and I'll tell a tale- a tale of a fateful trip.

In 1939 over 900 Jewish refugees sailed from Hamburg, Germany, on the "St. Louis.", stopping at port after port looking for refuge. They found none. The ship was forced to return to Europe where, ultimately, many of the passengers perished in concentration or extermination camps.

If Israel had existed, these refugees would have been safe.
The exisitence of Israel as a homeland for the Jewish people is of vital concern to ALL Jews thoughout the world. Israel is our sanctuary, our safe haven, our home. And for that reason it is incubent upon the diaspora Jewish community to support Israel. No matter where we lay our heads, our hearts need to be in Israel. Yes, there are a few that don't realize this. Maybe someday they will

"Any body besides a religious zealot would just let their heart guide their life. "

Like a Neturei Qarta ultra anti-Zionist religious zealot?

thank you, Tia.
-In 1939 over 900 Jewish refugees sailed from Hamburg, Germany, on the "St. Louis.", stopping at port after port looking for refuge. They found none. The ship was forced to return to Europe where, ultimately, many of the passengers perished in concentration or extermination camps. -
Not only that, but the high command of the 7th Air Core were refused to bomb railways into the camps.
Or the tank factories Ford and GM were operating.
Or their IG Farbin HQ.
Hitler grafted his euthanasia programs from California.
See a pattern?
You're part of it whether you know it or not.

The fact is that the list of links exemplifies a plethora of Jewish groups who don't support either the occupation and/or zionism. To portray them all as "fringe" is disingenuous at best.

Not only that, but the high command of the 7th Air Core were refused to bomb railways into the camps.
Or the tank factories Ford and GM were operating.
Or their IG Farbin HQ.....


I'm well aware of this and that is precisely why I consider myself a Zionist. No matter how comfortable I am in America, I know that I can never fully trust the dominent culture to watch out for my interests.

who exactly is the dominate culture?
look at the cost.
this was to be expected when the culture is supported by force rather integration and trade, for instance.
You're still conflating resistance to terrorism and I believe you know this is semantics only and meaningless under the statistics of civilian casualties.
And UN resolutions.

...from inconvenient facts again for the umpteenth time. Trying to insinuate the dominate culture in the US is Jewish ("Zionist") a-la Gilad Atzmon? Is that it?

Or are you trying to blame the majority of US Jews for supporting Israel, which is sustained also by military force because the Palestinians and other hostile Arab entities aren't interested in it even existing within any borders at all? Including that oh-so compationate Abbas who deep down wants no form of integration and trade.

The "statistics of civilian casualties" mean near zilch in themselves. This has been demonstrated a few times to you by different posters, but you're too thick to even _want_ to get it.

UN resolutions are for the most part a joke perpetrated by an automatic anti-Israel majority skillfully manipulated by the Arab League and OPEC. Almost the same joke that Indymedia has become. There's no balance within the UN, it's virtually lopsided toward the Palis. Who heads the human rights comission there? The likes of Libya and Syria.

as a spokes'man' for zionist we ( okay this is an assumption on my part but I really mean 'I' ) are disappointed in the lack of tact that, say, Tia would employ when you issue words like this:
"The "statistics of civilian casualties" mean near zilch in themselves"

Imagine someone saying that he seeks the destruction of Italy because he
regards Italian national identity as racist. Further, imagine that this
person constantly denies being anti-Italian, because he does not hate all
Italians, only Italy and all those who believe Italy should exist.
Now substitute "Jewish" for "Italian" and "Israel" for "Italy" and you
understand the absurdity of the argument that one can be anti-Zionist but
not anti-Jewish.
>
Among the many lies that permeate the modern world, none is greater -- or
easier to refute -- than the claim that Zionism is not an integral part of
> Judaism or the claim that anti-Zionism is unrelated to antisemitism.
>
> In order to understand why, it is first necessary to explain Zionism and
> anti-Zionism.
>
> A modern secular movement called Zionism was founded in the 19th century,
> but the belief that Jews belong in Zion (the biblical term for Jerusalem)
is
> as old as the Jewish people. See Part One of this series, "Explaining
Jews,"
> for a discussion of why Jews are a people and not only a religion.
>
> Starting in 586 B.C., with the destruction of the first Jewish state, Jews
> were already Zionists in that they fervently prayed to return to Zion.
While
> the movement known by the specific name "Zionism" is modern, the movement
of
> Jews returning to Zion is more than 2,500 years old. That is why the claim
> that Zionism -- the return of the Jewish people to Zion -- is not part of
> Judaism is a theological and historical lie.
>
> Judaism has always consisted of three components: God, Torah and Israel,
> roughly translated as faith, practice and peoplehood. And this Jewish
people
> was conceived of as living in the Jewish country called Israel. One can
> argue that the modern state of Israel was founded at the expense of Arabs
> living in the geographic area known as Palestine (there was never a
country
> or a nation called Palestine); but that in no way negates the indisputable
> fact that Zionism is an integral part of Judaism. Nor does the fact that
> some Jews who have abandoned Judaism are opposed to Zionism, nor that a
tiny
> sect of ultra-Orthodox Jews (Neturei Karta) believe that only the Messiah
> can found a Jewish state in Israel.
>
> When anti-Israel Muslim students demonstrate on campus chanting, "Yes to
> Judaism, No to Zionism," they are inventing a new Judaism out of their
> hatred for Israel. It would be as if anti-Muslims marched around chanting,
> "Yes to Allah, No to the Quran." Just as Allah, Muhammad and the Quran are
> inextricable components of Islam, so God, Torah and Israel are of Judaism.
>
> But, one might argue, even if Zionism is as much a part of Judaism as any
> other part of the Hebrew Bible, the modern Jewish state of Israel has no
> right to exist because it displaced many indigenous Arabs, known later as
> Palestinians.
>
> Before responding to this, it is crucial to understand that this
argument --
> that Israel's founding was illegitimate -- is completely unrelated to
> anti-Zionism. An intellectually honest person who believes Israel's
founding
> is illegitimate would still have to acknowledge that Zionism is an
> inseparable part of Judaism.
>
> But the argument that Israel is illegitimate because its founding led to
> 600,000 to 700,000 Arab refugees is as anti-Jewish as is anti-Zionism.
> Virtually every country in the world was founded by displacing some of the
> people who had lived there, and many of those countries did far worse to
far
> more people than Israel did. Therefore, anyone who calls only for Israel's
> destruction had better explain why, of all the states on earth whose
> founding was accompanied by the displacement of others, only the Jewish
> state is illegitimate.
>
> Take Pakistan, for example. Unlike the Jewish state of Israel, which had
> existed twice before in history, there was never a country called
Pakistan,
> nor was there ever any other independent Muslim country in the part of
India
> that was carved out to create Pakistan. Moreover, if the Jewish state of
> Israel is illegitimate because it created 700,000 Arab refugees, why isn't
> the Muslim state of Pakistan, which created more than eight million Hindu
> refugees, illegitimate?
>
> The answer is obvious. When people isolate the one Jewish state in the
world
> for sanctions, opprobrium and delegitimizing, they are doing so because it
> is the Jewish state. And that, quite simply, is why anti-Zionism is simply
> another form of Jew-hatred.
>
> You can criticize Israel all you want. That does not make you an
antisemite.
> But if you are an anti-Zionist or advocate the destruction of the Jewish
> state, then let's be clear: You are an enemy of the Jews and of Judaism,
and
> the word for such a person is anti-Semite.

-Jewish" for "Italian" and "Israel" for "Italy" and you
understand the absurdity of the argument that one can be anti-Zionist but
not anti-Jewish.-

Italy?
are you serious.
Try the analogy of the massacre of the native populations of the new world?
They didn't have modern weaponry either.

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org

and here:
http://www.jewishpeacefellowship.org/

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

http://www.jatonyc.org/

http://www.cam.org/~rsilver/jewspeakout.htm

Here's a whole list of resources:
http://www.doublestandards.org/jaz1.html
(for starters)

First you were talking merely NK. Then it became anti-Zionist Jews in general. Now you've expanded the range to include against "occupation".
Where do they manufacture these clowns?

Neturai Karta is a fringe within the Jewish world in general and its ultra-Orthodox Jewish population body in particular.

"Lying is ugly"

So quit lying. Dont be a hypocrite.

The fact is, and remains so: There are a great deal of Jews who have the courage to be against zionism and/or the occupation of Palestine.
All my posts were consistent w/ this statement. Send me the url where I didn't include these. It is others who focus in on one group and ignore the rest...

Of course by adopting the position of the NK it means that you are accepting their devotion to the coming of the Moshiach who will lead the Jewish people back to Israel and the re-building of the Temple.

what about the myriad of others?

Notwithstanding their anti-Zionist beliefs, they also do not directly assist Israel's enemies. They refuse to lend a hand to the murder of Jews, even if they bitterly disagree with their Zionist and/or secular affiliations. Understand?
Another thing: many among the myriad are rather non-Zionist than anti. Or maybe you're incapable of construing there's an ideological grey area.

No, that would be distracting, since you've posted NK SO MANY times, now tell us all about your devotion to their Messianism? Or would you just prefer to admit that you don't know anything about NK other than their , " Moshiach first, then found the state of Israel" politics?

Naso Numbers 4:21 - 7:89

from: http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/dennisprager/2006/05/30/199115.html
Explaining Jews Part VII: Why anti-Zionism is anti-semitism
May 30, 2006
by Dennis Prager

Imagine someone saying that he seeks the destruction of Italy because he regards Italian national identity as racist. Further, imagine that this person constantly denies being anti-Italian, because he does not hate all Italians, only Italy and all those who believe Italy should exist.
Now substitute "Jewish" for "Italian" and "Israel" for "Italy" and you understand the absurdity of the argument that one can be anti-Zionist but not anti-Jewish.

Among the many lies that permeate the modern world, none is greater -- or easier to refute -- than the claim that Zionism is not an integral part of Judaism or the claim that anti-Zionism is unrelated to antisemitism.

In order to understand why, it is first necessary to explain Zionism and anti-Zionism.

A modern secular movement called Zionism was founded in the 19th century, but the belief that Jews belong in Zion (the biblical term for Jerusalem) is as old as the Jewish people. See Part One of this series, "Explaining Jews," for a discussion of why Jews are a people and not only a religion.

Starting in 586 B.C., with the destruction of the first Jewish state, Jews were already Zionists in that they fervently prayed to return to Zion. While the movement known by the specific name "Zionism" is modern, the movement of Jews returning to Zion is more than 2,500 years old. That is why the claim that Zionism -- the return of the Jewish people to Zion -- is not part of Judaism is a theological and historical lie.

Judaism has always consisted of three components: God, Torah and Israel, roughly translated as faith, practice and peoplehood. And this Jewish people was conceived of as living in the Jewish country called Israel. One can argue that the modern state of Israel was founded at the expense of Arabs living in the geographic area known as Palestine (there was never a country or a nation called Palestine); but that in no way negates the indisputable fact that Zionism is an integral part of Judaism. Nor does the fact that some Jews who have abandoned Judaism are opposed to Zionism, nor that a tiny sect of ultra-Orthodox Jews (Neturei Karta) believe that only the Messiah can found a Jewish state in Israel.

When anti-Israel Muslim students demonstrate on campus chanting, "Yes to Judaism, No to Zionism," they are inventing a new Judaism out of their hatred for Israel. It would be as if anti-Muslims marched around chanting, "Yes to Allah, No to the Quran." Just as Allah, Muhammad and the Quran are inextricable components of Islam, so God, Torah and Israel are of Judaism.

But, one might argue, even if Zionism is as much a part of Judaism as any other part of the Hebrew Bible, the modern Jewish state of Israel has no right to exist because it displaced many indigenous Arabs, known later as Palestinians.

Before responding to this, it is crucial to understand that this argument -- that Israel's founding was illegitimate -- is completely unrelated to anti-Zionism. An intellectually honest person who believes Israel's founding is illegitimate would still have to acknowledge that Zionism is an inseparable part of Judaism.

But the argument that Israel is illegitimate because its founding led to 600,000 to 700,000 Arab refugees is as anti-Jewish as is anti-Zionism. Virtually every country in the world was founded by displacing some of the people who had lived there, and many of those countries did far worse to far more people than Israel did. Therefore, anyone who calls only for Israel's destruction had better explain why, of all the states on earth whose founding was accompanied by the displacement of others, only the Jewish state is illegitimate.

Take Pakistan, for example. Unlike the Jewish state of Israel, which had existed twice before in history, there was never a country called Pakistan, nor was there ever any other independent Muslim country in the part of India that was carved out to create Pakistan. Moreover, if the Jewish state of Israel is illegitimate because it created 700,000 Arab refugees, why isn't the Muslim state of Pakistan, which created more than eight million Hindu refugees, illegitimate?

The answer is obvious. When people isolate the one Jewish state in the world for sanctions, opprobrium and delegitimizing, they are doing so because it is the Jewish state. And that, quite simply, is why anti-Zionism is simply another form of Jew-hatred.

You can criticize Israel all you want. That does not make you an antisemite. But if you are an anti-Zionist or advocate the destruction of the Jewish state, then let's be clear: You are an enemy of the Jews and of Judaism, and the word for such a person is antisemite.

Dennis Prager is a radio talk show host, author, and contributing columnist for Townhall.com.

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/04/155160_comment.php#160874

". . . the reaction proves their point so neatly it's almost funny." -- Molly Ivins

How many threads are you going to spam that Ivins quote to, nessie?

@%<

Job
1,1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was whole-hearted and upright, and one that feared God, and shunned evil. 1,2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. 1,3 His possessions also were seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she-asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the children of the east. 1,4 And his sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one upon his day; and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and to drink with them. 1,5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt-offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said: 'It may be that my sons have sinned, and blasphemed God in their hearts.' Thus did Job continually. {P}

1,6 Now it fell upon a day, that the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 1,7 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Whence comest thou?' Then Satan answered the LORD, and said: 'From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.' 1,8 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a whole-hearted and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil?' 1,9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said: 'Doth Job fear God for nought? 1,10 Hast not Thou made a hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath, on every side? Thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions are increased in the land. 1,11 But put forth Thy hand now, and touch all that he hath, surely he will blaspheme Thee to Thy face.' 1,12 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thy hand.' So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. 1,13 And it fell on a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house, 1,14 that there came a messenger unto Job, and said: 'The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them; 1,15 and the Sabeans made a raid, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.' 1,16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said: 'A fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.' 1,17 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said: 'The Chaldeans set themselves in three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have taken them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.' 1,18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said: 'Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house; 1,19 And, behold, there came a great wind from across the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young people, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.' 1,20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped; 1,21 And he said; naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither; the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. 1,22 For all this Job sinned not, nor ascribed aught unseemly to God. {P}

2,1 Again it fell upon a day, that the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. 2,2 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'From whence comest thou?' And Satan answered the LORD, and said: 'From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.' 2,3 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a whole-hearted and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil? and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.' 2,4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said: 'Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. 2,5 But put forth Thy hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, surely he will blaspheme Thee to Thy face.' 2,6 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Behold, he is in thy hand; only spare his life.' 2,7 So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot even unto his crown. 2,8 And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself therewith; and he sat among the ashes. 2,9 Then said his wife unto him: 'Dost thou still hold fast thine integrity? blaspheme God, and die.' 2,10 But he said unto her: 'Thou speakest as one of the impious women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?' For all this did not Job sin with his lips. {P}

2,11 Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place, Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite; and they made an appointment together to come to bemoan him and to comfort him. 2,12 And when they lifted up their eyes afar off, and knew him not, they lifted up their voice, and wept; and they rent every one his mantle, and threw dust upon their heads toward heaven. 2,13 So they sat down with him upon the ground seven days and seven nights, and none spoke a word unto him; for they saw that his grief was very great. 3,1 After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day. {P}

3,2 {S} And Job spoke, and said:
3,3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night wherein it was said: 'A man-child is brought forth.'
3,4 Let that day be darkness; {N}
let not God inquire after it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
3,5 Let darkness and the shadow of death claim it for their own; let a cloud dwell upon it; let all that maketh black the day terrify it.
3,6 As for that night, let thick darkness seize upon it; {N}
let it not rejoice among the days of the year; let it not come into the number of the months.
3,7 Lo, let that night be desolate; let no joyful voice come therein.
3,8 Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to rouse up leviathan.
3,9 Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it behold the eyelids of the morning;
3,10 Because it shut not up the doors of my [mother's] womb, nor hid trouble from mine eyes.
3,11 Why died I not from the womb? Why did I not perish at birth?
3,12 Why did the knees receive me? And wherefore the breasts, that I should suck?
3,13 For now should I have lain still and been quiet; I should have slept; then had I been at rest--
3,14 With kings and counsellors of the earth, who built up waste places for themselves;
3,15 Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver;
3,16 Or as a hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants that never saw light.
3,17 There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary are at rest.
3,18 There the prisoners are at ease together; they hear not the voice of the taskmaster.
3,19 The small and great are there alike; and the servant is free from his master.
3,20 Wherewith is light given to him that is in misery, and life unto the bitter in soul--
3,21 Who long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for hid treasures;
3,22 Who rejoice unto exultation, and are glad, when they can find the grave?--
3,23 To a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?
3,24 For my sighing cometh instead of my food, and my roarings are poured out like water.
3,25 For the thing which I did fear is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of hath overtaken me.
3,26 I was not at ease, neither was I quiet, neither had I rest; but trouble came.
4,1 {S} Then answered Eliphaz the Temanite, and said:
4,2 If one venture a word unto thee, wilt thou be weary? But who can withhold himself from speaking?
4,3 Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands.
4,4 Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
4,5 But now it is come upon thee, and thou art weary; it toucheth thee, and thou art affrighted.
4,6 Is not thy fear of God thy confidence, and thy hope the integrity of thy ways?
4,7 Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? Or where were the upright cut off?
4,8 According as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow mischief, reap the same.
4,9 By the breath of God they perish, and by the blast of His anger are they consumed.
4,10 The lion roareth, and the fierce lion howleth--yet the teeth of the young lions are broken.
4,11 The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the whelps of the lioness are scattered abroad.
4,12 Now a word was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a whisper thereof.
4,13 In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
4,14 Fear came upon me, and trembling, and all my bones were made to shake.
4,15 Then a spirit passed before my face, that made the hair of my flesh to stand up.
4,16 It stood still, but I could not discern the appearance thereof; a form was before mine eyes; {N}
I heard a still voice:
4,17 'Shall mortal man be just before God? Shall a man be pure before his Maker?
4,18 Behold, He putteth no trust in His servants, and His angels He chargeth with folly;
4,19 How much more them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, who are crushed before the moth!
4,20 Betwixt morning and evening they are shattered; they perish for ever without any regarding it.
4,21 Is not their tent-cord plucked up within them? They die, and that without wisdom.'
5,1 Call now; is there any that will answer thee? And to which of the holy ones wilt thou turn?
5,2 For anger killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.
5,3 I have seen the foolish taking root; but suddenly I beheld his habitation cursed.
5,4 His children are far from safety, and are crushed in the gate, with none to deliver them.
5,5 Whose harvest the hungry eateth up, and taketh it even out of the thorns, and the snare gapeth for their substance.
5,6 For affliction cometh not forth from the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground;
5,7 But man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.
5,8 But as for me, I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause;
5,9 Who doeth great things and unsearchable, marvellous things without number;
5,10 Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields;
5,11 So that He setteth up on high those that are low, and those that mourn are exalted to safety.
5,12 He frustrateth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands can perform nothing substantial.
5,13 He taketh the wise in their own craftiness; and the counsel of the wily is carried headlong.
5,14 They meet with darkness in the day-time, and grope at noonday as in the night.
5,15 But He saveth from the sword of their mouth, even the needy from the hand of the mighty.
5,16 So the poor hath hope, and iniquity stoppeth her mouth.
5,17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth; therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty.
5,18 For He maketh sore, and bindeth up; He woundeth, and His hands make whole.
5,19 He will deliver thee in six troubles; yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.
5,20 In famine He will redeem thee from death; and in war from the power of the sword.
5,21 Thou shalt be hid from the scourge of the tongue; neither shalt thou be afraid of destruction when it cometh.
5,22 At destruction and famine thou shalt laugh; neither shalt thou be afraid of the beasts of the earth.
5,23 For thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field; and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with thee.
5,24 And thou shalt know that thy tent is in peace; and thou shalt visit thy habitation, and shalt miss nothing.
5,25 Thou shalt know also that thy seed shall be great, and thine offspring as the grass of the earth.
5,26 Thou shalt come to thy grave in a ripe age, like as a shock of corn cometh in in its season.
5,27 Lo this, we have searched it, so it is; hear it, and know thou it for thy good.
6,1 {S} Then Job answered and said:
6,2 Oh that my vexation were but weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances altogether!
6,3 For now it would be heavier than the sand of the seas; therefore are my words broken.
6,4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof my spirit drinketh up; the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
6,5 Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
6,6 Can that which hath no savour be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the juice of mallows?
6,7 My soul refuseth to touch them; they are as the sickness of my flesh.
6,8 Oh that I might have my request, and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
6,9 Even that it would please God to crush me; that He would let loose His hand, and cut me off!
6,10 Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would exult in pain, though He spare not; {N}
for I have not denied the words of the Holy One.
6,11 What is my strength, that I should wait? and what is mine end, that I should be patient?
6,12 Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
6,13 Is it that I have no help in me, and that sound wisdom is driven quite from me?
6,14 To him that is ready to faint kindness is due from his friend, even to him that forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
6,15 My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, as the channel of brooks that overflow,
6,16 Which are black by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow hideth itself;
6,17 What time they wax warm, they vanish, when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
6,18 The paths of their way do wind, they go up into the waste, and are lost.
6,19 The caravans of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them--
6,20 They were ashamed because they had hoped; they came thither, and were confounded.
6,21 For now ye are become His; ye see a terror, and are afraid.
6,22 Did I say: 'Give unto me'? or: 'Offer a present for me of your substance'?
6,23 or: 'Deliver me from the adversary's hand'? or: 'Redeem me from the hand of the oppressors'?
6,24 Teach me, and I will hold my peace; and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
6,25 How forcible are words of uprightness! But what doth your arguing argue?
6,26 Do ye hold words to be an argument, but the speeches of one that is desperate to be wind?
6,27 Yea, ye would cast lots upon the fatherless, and dig a pit for your friend.
6,28 Now therefore be pleased to look upon me; for surely I shall not lie to your face.
6,29 Return, I pray you, let there be no injustice; yea, return again, my cause is righteous.
6,30 Is there injustice on my tongue? Cannot my taste discern crafty devices?
7,1 Is there not a time of service to man upon earth? And are not his days like the days of a hireling?
7,2 As a servant that eagerly longeth for the shadow, and as a hireling that looketh for his wages;
7,3 So am I made to possess--months of vanity, and wearisome nights are appointed to me.
7,4 When I lie down, I say: 'When shall I arise?' But the night is long, {N}
and I am full of tossings to and fro unto the dawning of the day.
7,5 My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin closeth up and breaketh out afresh.
7,6 My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle, and are spent without hope.
7,7 O remember that my life is a breath; mine eye shall no more see good.
7,8 The eye of him that seeth me shall behold me no more; while Thine eyes are upon me, I am gone.
7,9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away, so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
7,10 He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
7,11 Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; {N}
I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
7,12 Am I a sea, or a sea-monster, that Thou settest a watch over me?
7,13 When I say: 'My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint';
7,14 Then Thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions;
7,15 So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than these my bones.
7,16 I loathe it; I shall not live alway; let me alone; for my days are vanity.
7,17 What is man, that Thou shouldest magnify him, and that Thou shouldest set Thy heart upon him,
7,18 And that Thou shouldest remember him every morning, and try him every moment?
7,19 How long wilt Thou not look away from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
7,20 If I have sinned, what do I unto Thee, O Thou watcher of men? {N}
Why hast Thou set me as a mark for Thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
7,21 And why dost Thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? {N}
For now shall I lie down in the dust; and Thou wilt seek me, but I shall not be.
8,1 {S} Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said:
8,2 How long wilt thou speak these things, seeing that the words of thy mouth are as a mighty wind?
8,3 Doth God pervert judgment? Or doth the Almighty pervert justice?
8,4 If thy children sinned against Him, He delivered them into the hand of their transgression.
8,5 If thou wouldest seek earnestly unto God, and make thy supplication to the Almighty;
8,6 If thou wert pure and upright; surely now He would awake for thee, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosperous.
8,7 And though thy beginning was small, yet thy end should greatly increase.
8,8 For inquire, I pray thee, of the former generation, and apply thyself to that which their fathers have searched out--
8,9 For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow--
8,10 Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?
8,11 Can the rush shoot up without mire? Can the reed-grass grow without water?
8,12 Whilst it is yet in its greenness, and not cut down, it withereth before any other herb.
8,13 So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hope of the godless man shall perish;
8,14 Whose confidence is gossamer, and whose trust is a spider's web.
8,15 He shall lean upon his house, but it shall not stand; he shall hold fast thereby, but it shall not endure.
8,16 He is green before the sun, and his shoots go forth over his garden.
8,17 His roots are wrapped about the heap, he beholdeth the place of stones.
8,18 If he be destroyed from his place, then it shall deny him: 'I have not seen thee.'
8,19 Behold, this is the joy of his way, and out of the earth shall others spring.
8,20 Behold, God will not cast away an innocent man, neither will He uphold the evil-doers;
8,21 Till He fill thy mouth with laughter, and thy lips with shouting.
8,22 They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the tent of the wicked shall be no more.
9,1 {S} Then Job answered and said:
9,2 Of a truth I know that it is so; and how can man be just with God?
9,3 If one should desire to contend with Him, he could not answer Him one of a thousand.
9,4 He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength; who hath hardened himself against Him, and prospered?
9,5 Who removeth the mountains, and they know it not, when He overturneth them in His anger.
9,6 Who shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
9,7 Who commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
9,8 Who alone stretcheth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
9,9 Who maketh the Bear, Orion, and the Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
9,10 Who doeth great things past finding out; yea, marvellous things without number.
9,11 Lo, He goeth by me, and I see Him not. He passeth on also, but I perceive Him not.
9,12 Behold, He snatcheth away, who can hinder Him? Who will say unto Him: 'What doest Thou?'
9,13 God will not withdraw His anger; the helpers of Rahab did stoop under Him.
9,14 How much less shall I answer Him, and choose out my arguments with Him?
9,15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer; I would make supplication to Him that contendeth with me.
9,16 If I had called, and He had answered me; yet would I not believe that He would hearken unto my voice--
9,17 He that would break me with a tempest, and multiply my wounds without cause;
9,18 That would not suffer me to take my breath, but fill me with bitterness.
9,19 If it be a matter of strength, lo, He is mighty! and if of justice, who will appoint me a time?
9,20 Though I be righteous, mine own mouth shall condemn me; though I be innocent, He shall prove me perverse.
9,21 I am innocent--I regard not myself, I despise my life.
9,22 It is all one--therefore I say: He destroyeth the innocent and the wicked.
9,23 If the scourge slay suddenly, He will mock at the calamity of the guiltless.
9,24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked; he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; {N}
if it be not He, who then is it?
9,25 Now my days are swifter than a runner; they flee away, they see no good.
9,26 They are passed away as the swift ships; as the vulture that swoopeth on the prey.
9,27 If I say: 'I will forget my complaint, I will put off my sad countenance, and be of good cheer',
9,28 I am afraid of all my pains, I know that Thou wilt not hold me guiltless.
9,29 I shall be condemned; why then do I labour in vain?
9,30 If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;
9,31 Yet wilt Thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.
9,32 For He is not a man, as I am, that I should answer Him, that we should come together in judgment.
9,33 There is no arbiter betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
9,34 Let Him take His rod away from me, and let not His terror make me afraid;
9,35 Then would I speak, and not fear Him; for I am not so with myself.
10,1 My soul is weary of my life; I will give free course to my complaint; I will speak in the bitterness of my soul.
10,2 I will say unto God: Do not condemn me; make me know wherefore Thou contendest with me.
10,3 Is it good unto Thee that Thou shouldest oppress, that Thou shouldest despise the work of Thy hands, and shine upon the counsel of the wicked?
10,4 Hast Thou eyes of flesh? or seest Thou as man seeth?
10,5 Are Thy days as the days of man, or Thy years as a man's days,
10,6 That Thou inquirest after mine iniquity, and searchest after my sin,
10,7 Although Thou knowest that I shall not be condemned; and there is none that can deliver out of Thy hand?
10,8 Thy hands have framed me and fashioned me together round about; yet Thou dost destroy me!
10,9 Remember, I beseech Thee, that Thou hast fashioned me as clay; and wilt Thou bring me into dust again?
10,10 Hast Thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese?
10,11 Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and knit me together with bones and sinews.
10,12 Thou hast granted me life and favour, and Thy providence hath preserved my spirit.
10,13 Yet these things Thou didst hide in Thy heart; I know that this is with Thee;
10,14 If I sin, then Thou markest me, and Thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.
10,15 If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet shall I not lift up my head-- {N}
being filled with ignominy and looking upon mine affliction.
10,16 And if it exalt itself, Thou huntest me as a lion; and again Thou showest Thyself marvellous upon me.
10,17 Thou renewest Thy witnesses against me, and increasest Thine indignation upon me; host succeeding host against me.
10,18 Wherefore then hast Thou brought me forth out of the womb? Would that I had perished, and no eye had seen me!
10,19 I should have been as though I had not been; I should have been carried from the womb to the grave.
10,20 Are not my days few? Cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little,
10,21 Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and of the shadow of death;
10,22 A land of thick darkness, as darkness itself; a land of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.
11,1 {S} Then answered Zophar the Naamathite, and said:
11,2 Should not the multitude of words be answered? And should a man full of talk be accounted right?
11,3 Thy boastings have made men hold their peace, and thou hast mocked, with none to make thee ashamed;
11,4 And thou hast said: 'My doctrine is pure, and I am clean in Thine eyes.'
11,5 But oh that God would speak, and open His lips against thee;
11,6 And that He would tell thee the secrets of wisdom, that sound wisdom is manifold! {N}
Know therefore that God exacteth of thee less than thine iniquity deserveth.
11,7 Canst thou find out the deep things of God? Canst thou attain unto the purpose of the Almighty?
11,8 It is high as heaven; what canst thou do? Deeper than the nether-world; what canst thou know?
11,9 The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.
11,10 If He pass by, and shut up, or gather in, then who can hinder Him?
11,11 For He knoweth base men; and when He seeth iniquity, will He not then consider it?
11,12 But an empty man will get understanding, when a wild ass's colt is born a man.
11,13 If thou set thy heart aright, and stretch out thy hands toward Him--
11,14 If iniquity be in thy hand, put it far away, and let not unrighteousness dwell in thy tents--
11,15 Surely then shalt thou lift up thy face without spot; yea, thou shalt be stedfast, and shalt not fear;
11,16 For thou shalt forget thy misery; thou shalt remember it as waters that are passed away;
11,17 And thy life shall be clearer than the noonday; though there be darkness, it shall be as the morning.
11,18 And thou shalt be secure, because there is hope; yea, thou shalt look about thee, and shalt take thy rest in safety.
11,19 Also thou shalt lie down, and none shall make thee afraid; yea, many shall make suit unto thee.
11,20 But the eyes of the wicked shall fail, and they shall have no way to flee, and their hope shall be the drooping of the soul.
12,1 {S} Then Job answered and said:
12,2 No doubt but ye are the people, and wisdom shall die with you.
12,3 But I have understanding as well as you; I am not inferior to you; yea, who knoweth not such things as these?
12,4 I am as one that is a laughing-stock to his neighbour, a man that called upon God, and He answered him; the just, the innocent man is a laughing-stock,
12,5 A contemptible brand in the thought of him that is at ease, a thing ready for them whose foot slippeth.
12,6 The tents of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure, in whatsoever God bringeth into their hand.
12,7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee;
12,8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee; and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee;
12,9 Who knoweth not among all these, that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?
12,10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.--
12,11 Doth not the ear try words, even as the palate tasteth its food?
12,12 Is wisdom with aged men, and understanding in length of days?--
12,13 With Him is wisdom and might; He hath counsel and understanding.
12,14 Behold, He breaketh down, and it cannot be built again; He shutteth up a man, and there can be no opening.
12,15 Behold, He withholdeth the waters, and they dry up; also He sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth.
12,16 With Him is strength and sound wisdom; the deceived and the deceiver are His.
12,17 He leadeth counsellors away stripped, and judges maketh He fools.
12,18 He looseth the bond of kings, and bindeth their loins with a girdle.
12,19 He leadeth priests away stripped, and overthroweth the mighty.
12,20 He removeth the speech of men of trust, and taketh away the sense of the elders.
12,21 He poureth contempt upon princes, and looseth the belt of the strong.
12,22 He uncovereth deep things out of darkness, and bringeth out to light the shadow of death.
12,23 He increaseth the nations, and destroyeth them; He enlargeth the nations, and leadeth them away.
12,24 He taketh away the heart of the chiefs of the people of the land, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.
12,25 They grope in the dark without light, and He maketh them to stagger like a drunken man.
13,1 Lo, mine eye hath seen all this, mine ear hath heard and understood it.
13,2 What ye know, do I know also; I am not inferior unto you.
13,3 Notwithstanding I would speak to the Almighty, and I desire to reason with God.
13,4 But ye are plasterers of lies, ye are all physicians of no value.
13,5 Oh that ye would altogether hold your peace! and it would be your wisdom.
13,6 Hear now my reasoning, and hearken to the pleadings of my lips.
13,7 Will ye speak unrighteously for God, and talk deceitfully for Him?
13,8 Will ye show Him favour? Will ye contend for God?
13,9 Would it be good that He should search you out? Or as one mocketh a man, will ye mock Him?
13,10 He will surely reprove you, if ye do secretly show favour.
13,11 Shall not His majesty terrify you, and His dread fall upon you?
13,12 Your memorials shall be like unto ashes, your eminences to eminences of clay.
13,13 Hold your peace, let me alone, that I may speak, and let come on me what will.
13,14 Wherefore? I will take my flesh in my teeth, and put my life in my hand.
13,15 Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him; but I will argue my ways before Him.
13,16 This also shall be my salvation, that a hypocrite cannot come before Him.
13,17 Hear diligently my speech, and let my declaration be in your ears.
13,18 Behold now, I have ordered my cause; I know that I shall be justified.
13,19 Who is he that will contend with me? For then would I hold my peace and die.
13,20 Only do not two things unto me, then will I not hide myself from Thee:
13,21 Withdraw Thy hand far from me; and let not Thy terror make me afraid.
13,22 Then call Thou, and I will answer; or let me speak, and answer Thou me.
13,23 How many are mine iniquities and sins? Make me to know my transgression and my sin.
13,24 Wherefore hidest Thou Thy face, and holdest me for Thine enemy?
13,25 Wilt Thou harass a driven leaf? And wilt Thou pursue the dry stubble?
13,26 That Thou shouldest write bitter things against me, and make me to inherit the iniquities of my youth.
13,27 Thou puttest my feet also in the stocks, and lookest narrowly unto all my paths; {N}
Thou drawest Thee a line about the soles of my feet;
13,28 Though I am like a wine-skin that consumeth, like a garment that is moth-eaten.
14,1 Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.
14,2 He cometh forth like a flower, and withereth; he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
14,3 And dost Thou open Thine eyes upon such a one, and bringest me into judgment with Thee?
14,4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
14,5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months is with Thee, and Thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;
14,6 Look away from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as a hireling, his day.
14,7 For there is hope of a tree, {N}
if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
14,8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;
14,9 Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and put forth boughs like a plant.
14,10 But man dieth, and lieth low; yea, man perisheth, and where is he?
14,11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the river is drained dry;
14,12 So man lieth down and riseth not; {N}
till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be roused out of their sleep.
14,13 Oh that Thou wouldest hide me in the nether-world, that Thou wouldest keep me secret, until Thy wrath be past, {N}
that Thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!--
14,14 If a man die, may he live again? {N}
All the days of my service would I wait, till my relief should come--
14,15 Thou wouldest call, and I would answer Thee; Thou wouldest have a desire to the work of Thy hands.
14,16 But now Thou numberest my steps, Thou dost not even wait for my sin;
14,17 My transgression is sealed up in a bag, and Thou heapest up mine iniquity.
14,18 And surely the mountain falling crumbleth away, and the rock is removed out of its place;
14,19 The waters wear the stones; the overflowings thereof wash away the dust of the earth; {N}
so Thou destroyest the hope of man.
14,20 Thou prevailest for ever against him, and he passeth; Thou changest his countenance, and sendest him away.
14,21 His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he regardeth them not.
14,22 But his flesh grieveth for him, and his soul mourneth over him.
15,1 {S} Then answered Eliphaz the Temanite, and said:
15,2 Should a wise man make answer with windy knowledge, and fill his belly with the east wind?
15,3 Should he reason with unprofitable talk, or with speeches wherewith he can do no good?
15,4 Yea, thou doest away with fear, and impairest devotion before God.
15,5 For thine iniquity teacheth thy mouth, and thou choosest the tongue of the crafty.
15,6 Thine own mouth condemneth thee, and not I; yea, thine own lips testify against thee.
15,7 Art thou the first man that was born? Or wast thou brought forth before the hills?
15,8 Dost thou hearken in the council of God? And dost thou restrain wisdom to thyself?
15,9 What knowest thou, that we know not? What understandest thou, which is not in us?
15,10 With us are both the gray-headed and the very aged men, much older than thy father.
15,11 Are the consolations of God too small for thee, and the word that dealeth gently with thee?
15,12 Why doth thy heart carry thee away? And why do thine eyes wink?
15,13 That thou turnest thy spirit against God, and lettest such words go out of thy mouth.
15,14 What is man, that he should be clean? And he that is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
15,15 Behold, He putteth no trust in His holy ones; yea, the heavens are not clean in His sight.
15,16 How much less one that is abominable and impure, man who drinketh iniquity like water!
15,17 I will tell thee, hear thou me; and that which I have seen I will declare--
15,18 Which wise men have told from their fathers, and have not hid it;
15,19 Unto whom alone the land was given, and no stranger passed among them.
15,20 The wicked man travaileth with pain all his days, even the number of years that are laid up for the oppressor.
15,21 A sound of terrors is in his ears: in prosperity the destroyer shall come upon him.
15,22 He believeth not that he shall return out of darkness, and he is waited for of the sword.
15,23 He wandereth abroad for bread: 'Where is it?' He knoweth that the day of darkness is ready at his hand.
15,24 Distress and anguish overwhelm him; they prevail against him, as a king ready to the battle.
15,25 Because he hath stretched out his hand against God, and behaveth himself proudly against the Almighty;
15,26 He runneth upon him with a stiff neck, with the thick bosses of his bucklers.
15,27 Because he hath covered his face with his fatness, and made collops of fat on his loins;
15,28 And he hath dwelt in desolate cities, in houses which no man would inhabit, which were ready to become heaps.
15,29 He shall not be rich, neither shall his substance continue, neither shall their produce bend to the earth.
15,30 He shall not depart out of darkness; the flame shall dry up his branches, and by the breath of His mouth shall he go away.
15,31 Let him not trust in vanity, deceiving himself; for vanity shall be his recompense.
15,32 It shall be accomplished before his time, and his branch shall not be leafy.
15,33 He shall shake off his unripe grape as the vine, and shall cast off his flower as the olive.
15,34 For the company of the godless shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tents of bribery.
15,35 They conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity, and their belly prepareth deceit.
16,1 {S} Then Job answered and said:
16,2 I have heard many such things; sorry comforters are ye all.
16,3 Shall windy words have an end? Or what provoketh thee that thou answerest?
16,4 I also could speak as ye do; {N}
if your soul were in my soul's stead, I could join words together against you, {N}
and shake my head at you.
16,5 I would strengthen you with my mouth, and the moving of my lips would assuage your grief.
16,6 Though I speak, my pain is not assuaged; and though I forbear, what am I eased?
16,7 But now He hath made me weary; Thou hast made desolate all my company.
16,8 And Thou hast shrivelled me up, which is a witness against me; and my leanness riseth up against me, it testifieth to my face.
16,9 He hath torn me in His wrath, and hated me; He hath gnashed upon me with His teeth; mine adversary sharpeneth his eyes upon me.
16,10 They have gaped upon me with their mouth; they have smitten me upon the cheek scornfully; they gather themselves together against me.
16,11 God delivereth me to the ungodly, and casteth me into the hands of the wicked.
16,12 I was at ease, and He broke me asunder; yea, He hath taken me by the neck, and dashed me to pieces; {N}
He hath also set me up for His mark.
16,13 His archers compass me round about, He cleaveth my reins asunder, and doth not spare; {N}
He poureth out my gall upon the ground.
16,14 He breaketh me with breach upon breach; He runneth upon me like a giant.
16,15 I have sewed sackcloth upon my skin, and have laid my horn in the dust.
16,16 My face is reddened with weeping, and on my eyelids is the shadow of death;
16,17 Although there is no violence in my hands, and my prayer is pure.
16,18 O earth, cover not thou my blood, and let my cry have no resting-place.
16,19 Even now, behold, my Witness is in heaven, and He that testifieth of me is on high.
16,20 Mine inward thoughts are my intercessors, mine eye poureth out tears unto God;
16,21 That He would set aright a man contending with God, as a son of man setteth aright his neighbour!
16,22 For the years that are few are coming on, and I shall go the way whence I shall not return.
17,1 My spirit is consumed, my days are extinct, the grave is ready for me.
17,2 Surely there are mockers with me, and mine eye abideth in their provocation.
17,3 Give now a pledge, be surety for me with Thyself; who else is there that will strike hands with me?
17,4 For Thou hast hid their heart from understanding; therefore shalt Thou not exalt them.
17,5 He that denounceth his friends for the sake of flattery, even the eyes of his children shall fail.
17,6 He hath made me also a byword of the people; and I am become one in whose face they spit.
17,7 Mine eye also is dimmed by reason of vexation, and all my members are as a shadow.
17,8 Upright men are astonished at this, and the innocent stirreth up himself against the godless.
17,9 Yet the righteous holdeth on his way, and he that hath clean hands waxeth stronger and stronger.
17,10 But as for you all, do ye return, and come now; and I shall not find a wise man among you.
17,11 My days are past, my purposes are broken off, even the thoughts of my heart.
17,12 They change the night into day; the light is short because of darkness.
17,13 If I look for the nether-world as my house; if I have spread my couch in the darkness;
17,14 If I have said to corruption: 'Thou art my father', to the worm: 'Thou art my mother, and my sister';
17,15 Where then is my hope? And as for my hope, who shall see it?
17,16 They shall go down to the bars of the nether-world, when we are at rest together in the dust.
18,1 {S} Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said:
18,2 How long will ye lay snares for words? Consider, and afterwards we will speak.
18,3 Wherefore are we counted as beasts, and reputed dull in your sight?
18,4 Thou that tearest thyself in thine anger, shall the earth be forsaken for thee? Or shall the rock be removed out of its place?
18,5 Yea, the light of the wicked shall be put out, and the spark of his fire shall not shine.
18,6 The light shall be dark in his tent, and his lamp over him shall be put out.
18,7 The steps of his strength shall be straitened, and his own counsel shall cast him down.
18,8 For he is cast into a net by his own feet, and he walketh upon the toils.
18,9 A gin shall take him by the heel, and a snare shall lay hold on him.
18,10 A noose is hid for him in the ground, and a trap for him in the way.
18,11 Terrors shall overwhelm him on every side, and shall entrap him at his feet.
18,12 His trouble shall be ravenous, and calamity shall be ready for his fall.
18,13 It shall devour the members of his body, yea, the first-born of death shall devour his members.
18,14 That wherein he trusteth shall be plucked out of his tent; and he shall be brought to the king of terrors.
18,15 There shall dwell in his tent that which is none of his; brimstone shall be scattered upon his habitation.
18,16 His roots shall dry up beneath, and above shall his branch wither.
18,17 His remembrance shall perish from the earth, and he shall have no name abroad.
18,18 He shall be driven from light into darkness, and chased out of the world.
18,19 He shall have neither son nor son's son among his people, nor any remaining in his dwellings.
18,20 They that come after shall be astonished at his day, as they that went before are affrighted.
18,21 Surely such are the dwellings of the wicked, and this is the place of him that knoweth not God.
19,1 {S} Then Job answered and said:
19,2 How long will ye vex my soul, and crush me with words?
19,3 These ten times have ye reproached me; ye are not ashamed that ye deal harshly with me.
19,4 And be it indeed that I have erred, mine error remaineth with myself.
19,5 If indeed ye will magnify yourselves against me, and plead against me my reproach;
19,6 Know now that God hath subverted my cause, and hath compassed me with His net.
19,7 Behold, I cry out: 'Violence!' but I am not heard; I cry aloud, but there is no justice.
19,8 He hath fenced up my way that I cannot pass, and hath set darkness in my paths.
19,9 He hath stripped me of my glory, and taken the crown from my head.
19,10 He hath broken me down on every side, and I am gone; and my hope hath He plucked up like a tree.
19,11 He hath also kindled His wrath against me, and He counteth me unto Him as one of His adversaries.
19,12 His troops come on together, and cast up their way against me, and encamp round about my tent.
19,13 He hath put my brethren far from me, and mine acquaintance are wholly estranged from me.
19,14 My kinsfolk have failed, and my familiar friends have forgotten me.
19,15 They that dwell in my house, and my maids, count me for a stranger; I am become an alien in their sight.
19,16 I call unto my servant, and he giveth me no answer, though I entreat him with my mouth.
19,17 My breath is abhorred of my wife, and I am loathsome to the children of my tribe.
19,18 Even urchins despised me; if I arise, they speak against me.
19,19 All my intimate friends abhor me; and they whom I loved are turned against me.
19,20 My bone cleaveth to my skin and to my flesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth.
19,21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
19,22 Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?
19,23 Oh that my words were now written! Oh that they were inscribed in a book!
19,24 That with an iron pen and lead they were graven in the rock for ever!
19,25 But as for me, I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He will witness at the last upon the dust;
19,26 And when after my skin this is destroyed, then without my flesh shall I see God;
19,27 Whom I, even I, shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another's. My reins are consumed within me.
19,28 If ye say: 'How we will persecute him!' seeing that the root of the matter is found in me;
19,29 Be ye afraid of the sword; for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment.
20,1 {S} Then answered Zophar the Naamathite, and said:
20,2 Therefore do my thoughts give answer to me, even by reason of mine agitation that is in me.
20,3 I have heard the reproof which putteth me to shame, but out of my understanding my spirit answereth me.
20,4 Knowest thou not this of old time, since man was placed upon earth,
20,5 That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the godless but for a moment?
20,6 Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds;
20,7 Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung; they that have seen him shall say: 'Where is he?'
20,8 He shall fly away as a dream, and shall not be found; yea, he shall be chased away as a vision of the night.
20,9 The eye which saw him shall see him no more; neither shall his place any more behold him.
20,10 His children shall appease the poor, and his hands shall restore his wealth.
20,11 His bones are full of his youth, but it shall lie down with him in the dust.
20,12 Though wickedness be sweet in his mouth, though he hide it under his tongue;
20,13 Though he spare it, and will not let it go, but keep it still within his mouth;
20,14 Yet his food in his bowels is turned, it is the gall of asps within him.
20,15 He hath swallowed down riches, and he shall vomit them up again; God shall cast them out of his belly.
20,16 He shall suck the poison of asps; the viper's tongue shall slay him.
20,17 He shall not look upon the rivers, the flowing streams of honey and curd.
20,18 That which he laboured for shall he give back, and shall not swallow it down; according to the substance that he hath gotten, he shall not rejoice.
20,19 For he hath oppressed and forsaken the poor; he hath violently taken away a house, and he shall not build it up.
20,20 Because he knew no quietness within him, in his greed he suffered nought to escape,
20,21 There was nothing left that he devoured not--therefore his prosperity shall not endure.
20,22 In the fulness of his sufficiency he shall be in straits; the hand of every one that is in misery shall come upon him.
20,23 It shall be for the filling of his belly; He shall cast the fierceness of His wrath upon him, and shall cause it to rain upon him into his flesh.
20,24 If he flee from the iron weapon, the bow of brass shall strike him through.
20,25 He draweth it forth, and it cometh out of his body; yea, the glittering point cometh out of his gall; terrors are upon him.
20,26 All darkness is laid up for his treasures; {N}
a fire not blown by man shall consume him; it shall go ill with him that is left in his tent.
20,27 The heavens shall reveal his iniquity, and the earth shall rise up against him.
20,28 The increase of his house shall depart, his goods shall flow away in the day of his wrath.
20,29 This is the portion of a wicked man from God, and the heritage appointed unto him by God.
21,1 {S} Then Job answered and said:
21,2 Hear diligently my speech; and let this be your consolations.
21,3 Suffer me, that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on.
21,4 As for me, is my complaint to man? Or why should I not be impatient?
21,5 Turn unto me, and be astonished, and lay your hand upon your mouth.
21,6 Even when I remember I am affrighted, and horror hath taketh hold on my flesh.
21,7 Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, wax mighty in power?
21,8 Their seed is established in their sight with them, and their offspring before their eyes.
21,9 Their houses are safe, without fear, neither is the rod of God upon them.
21,10 Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth not her calf.
21,11 They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance.
21,12 They sing to the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the pipe.
21,13 They spend their days in prosperity, and peacefully they go down to the grave.
21,14 Yet they said unto God: 'Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of Thy ways.
21,15 What is the Almighty, that we should serve Him? And what profit should we have, if we pray unto Him?'--
21,16 Lo, their prosperity is not in their hand; the counsel of the wicked is far from me.
21,17 How oft is it that the lamp of the wicked is put out? that their calamity cometh upon them? {N}
that He distributeth pains in His anger?
21,18 That they are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm stealeth away?
21,19 'God layeth up his iniquity for his children!'--let Him recompense it unto himself, that he may know it.
21,20 Let his own eyes see his destruction, and let him drink of the wrath of the Almighty.
21,21 For what pleasure hath he in his house after him? seeing the number of his months is determined.
21,22 Shall any teach God knowledge? seeing it is He that judgeth those that are high.
21,23 One dieth in his full strength, being wholly at ease and quiet;
21,24 His pails are full of milk, and the marrow of his bones is moistened.
21,25 And another dieth in bitterness of soul, and hath never tasted of good.
21,26 They lie down alike in the dust, and the worm covereth them.
21,27 Behold, I know your thoughts, and the devices which ye wrongfully imagine against me.
21,28 For ye say: 'Where is the house of the prince? And where is the tent wherein the wicked dwelt?'
21,29 Have ye not asked them that go by the way; and will ye misdeem their tokens,
21,30 That the evil man is reserved to the day of calamity, that they are led forth to the day of wrath?
21,31 But who shall declare his way to his face? And who shall repay him what he hath done?
21,32 For he is borne to the grave, and watch is kept over his tomb.
21,33 The clods of the valley are sweet unto him, and all men draw after him, as there were innumerable before him.
21,34 How then comfort ye me in vain? And as for your answers, there remaineth only faithlessness?
22,1 {S} Then answered Eliphaz the Temanite, and said:
22,2 Can a man be profitable unto God? Or can he that is wise be profitable unto Him?
22,3 Is it any advantage to the Almighty, that thou art righteous? Or is it gain to Him, that thou makest thy ways blameless?
22,4 Is it for thy fear of Him that He reproveth thee, that He entereth with thee into judgment?
22,5 Is not thy wickedness great? And are not thine iniquities without end?
22,6 For thou hast taken pledges of thy brother for nought, and stripped the naked of their clothing.
22,7 Thou hast not given water to the weary to drink, and thou hast withholden bread from the hungry.
22,8 And as a mighty man, who hath the earth, and as a man of rank, who dwelleth in it,
22,9 Thou hast sent widows away empty, and the arms of the fatherless have been broken.
22,10 Therefore snares are round about thee, and sudden dread affrighted thee,
22,11 Or darkness, that thou canst not see, and abundance of waters cover thee.
22,12 Is not God in the height of heaven? And behold the topmost of the stars, how high they are!
22,13 And thou sayest: 'What doth God know? Can He judge through the dark cloud?
22,14 Thick clouds are a covering to Him, that He seeth not; and He walketh in the circuit of heaven.'
22,15 Wilt thou keep the old way which wicked men have trodden?
22,16 Who were snatched away before their time, whose foundation was poured out as a stream;
22,17 Who said unto God: 'Depart from us'; and what could the Almighty do unto them?
22,18 Yet He filled their houses with good things--but the counsel of the wicked is far from me.
22,19 The righteous saw it, and were glad, and the innocent laugh them to scorn:
22,20 'Surely their substance is cut off, and their abundance the fire hath consumed.'
22,21 Acquaint now thyself with Him, and be at peace; thereby shall thine increase be good.
22,22 Receive, I pray thee, instruction from His mouth, and lay up His words in thy heart.
22,23 If thou return to the Almighty, thou shalt be built up--if thou put away unrighteousness far from thy tents,
22,24 And lay thy treasure in the dust, and the gold of Ophir among the stones of the brooks;
22,25 And the Almighty be thy treasure, and precious silver unto thee;
22,26 Then surely shalt thou have thy delight in the Almighty, and shalt lift up thy face unto God.
22,27 Thou shalt make thy prayer unto Him, and He will hear thee, and thou shalt pay thy vows;
22,28 Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee, and light shall shine upon thy ways.
22,29 When they cast thee down, thou shalt say: 'There is lifting up'; for the humble person He saveth.
22,30 He delivereth him that is innocent, yea, thou shalt be delivered through the cleanness of thy hands.
23,1 {S} Then Job answered and said:
23,2 Even to-day is my complaint bitter; my hand is become heavy because of my groaning.
23,3 Oh that I knew where I might find Him, that I might come even to His seat!
23,4 I would order my cause before Him, and fill my mouth with arguments.
23,5 I would know the words which He would answer me, and understand what He would say unto me.
23,6 Would He contend with me in His great power? Nay; but He would give heed unto me.
23,7 There the upright might reason with Him; so should I be delivered for ever from my Judge.
23,8 Behold, I go forward, but He is not there, and backward, but I cannot perceive Him;
23,9 On the left hand, when He doth work, but I cannot behold Him, He turneth Himself to the right hand, but I cannot see Him.
23,10 For He knoweth the way that I take; when He hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.
23,11 My foot hath held fast to His steps, His way have I kept, and turned not aside.
23,12 I have not gone back from the commandment of His lips; I have treasured up the words of His mouth more than my necessary food.
23,13 But He is at one with Himself, and who can turn Him? And what His soul desireth, even that He doeth.
23,14 For He will perform that which is appointed for me; and many such things are with Him.
23,15 Therefore am I affrighted at His presence; when I consider, I am afraid of Him.
23,16 Yea, God hath made my heart faint, and the Almighty hath affrighted me;
23,17 Because I was not cut off before the darkness, neither did He cover the thick darkness from my face.
24,1 Why are times not laid up by the Almighty? And why do not they that know Him see His days?
24,2 There are that remove the landmarks; they violently take away flocks, and feed them.
24,3 They drive away the ass of the fatherless, they take the widow's ox for a pledge.
24,4 They turn the needy out of the way; the poor of the earth hide themselves together.
24,5 Behold, as wild asses in the wilderness they go forth to their work, seeking diligently for food; {N}
the desert yieldeth them bread for their children.
24,6 They cut his provender in the field; and they despoil the vineyard of the wicked.
24,7 They lie all night naked without clothing, and have no covering in the cold.
24,8 They are wet with the showers of the mountains, and embrace the rock for want of a shelter.
24,9 There are that pluck the fatherless from the breast, and take a pledge of the poor;
24,10 So that they go about naked without clothing, and being hungry they carry the sheaves;
24,11 They make oil within the rows of these men; they tread their winepresses, and suffer thirst.
24,12 From out of the populous city men groan, and the soul of the wounded crieth out; {N}
yet God imputeth it not for unseemliness.
24,13 These are of them that rebel against the light; they know not the ways thereof, nor abide in the paths thereof.
24,14 The murderer riseth with the light, to kill the poor and needy; and in the night he is as a thief.
24,15 The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying: 'No eye shall see me'; {N}
and he putteth a covering on his face.
24,16 In the dark they dig through houses; they shut themselves up in the day-time; they know not the light.
24,17 For the shadow of death is to all of them as the morning; for they know the terrors of the shadow of death.
24,18 He is swift upon the face of the waters; their portion is cursed in the earth; {N}
he turneth not by the way of the vineyards.
24,19 Drought and heat consume the snow waters; so doth the nether-world those that have sinned.
24,20 The womb forgetteth him; the worm feedeth sweetly on him; he shall be no more remembered; {N}
and unrighteousness is broken as a tree.
24,21 He devoureth the barren that beareth not; and doeth not good to the widow.
24,22 He draweth away the mighty also by his power; he riseth up, and he trusteth not his own life.
24,23 Though it be given him to be in safety, whereon he resteth, yet His eyes are upon their ways.
24,24 They are exalted for a little while, and they are gone; yea, they are brought low, they are gathered in as all others, {N}
and wither as the tops of the ears of corn.
24,25 And if it be not so now, who will prove me a liar, and make my speech nothing worth?
25,1 {S} Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said:
25,2 Dominion and fear are with Him; He maketh peace in His high places.
25,3 Is there any number of His armies? And upon whom doth not His light arise?
25,4 How then can man be just with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
25,5 Behold, even the moon hath no brightness, and the stars are not pure in His sight;
25,6 How much less man, that is a worm! and the son of man, that is a maggot!
26,1 {S} Then Job answered and said:
26,2 How hast thou helped him that is without power! How hast thou saved the arm that hath no strength!
26,3 How hast thou counselled him that hath no wisdom, and plentifully declared sound knowledge!
26,4 With whose help hast thou uttered words? And whose spirit came forth from thee?
26,5 The shades tremble beneath the waters and the inhabitants thereof.
26,6 The nether-world is naked before Him, and Destruction hath no covering.
26,7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty space, and hangeth the earth over nothing.
26,8 He bindeth up the waters in His thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.
26,9 He closeth in the face of His throne, and spreadeth His cloud upon it.
26,10 He hath described a boundary upon the face of the waters, unto the confines of light and darkness.
26,11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at His rebuke.
26,12 He stirreth up the sea with His power, and by His understanding He smiteth through Rahab.
26,13 By His breath the heavens are serene; His hand hath pierced the slant serpent.
26,14 Lo, these are but the outskirts of His ways; and how small a whisper is heard of Him! {N}
But the thunder of His mighty deeds who can understand?
27,1 {S} And Job again took up his parable, and said:
27,2 As God liveth, who hath taken away my right; and the Almighty, who hath dealt bitterly with me;
27,3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils,
27,4 Surely my lips shall not speak unrighteousness, neither shall my tongue utter deceit;
27,5 Far be it from me that I should justify you; {N}
till I die I will not put away mine integrity from me.
27,6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go; my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.
27,7 Let mine enemy be as the wicked, and let him that riseth up against me be as the unrighteous.
27,8 For what is the hope of the godless, though he get him gain, when God taketh away his soul?
27,9 Will God hear his cry, when trouble cometh upon him?
27,10 Will he have his delight in the Almighty, and call upon God at all times?
27,11 I will teach you concerning the hand of God; that which is with the Almighty will I not conceal.
27,12 Behold, all ye yourselves have seen it; why then are ye become altogether vain?
27,13 This is the portion of a wicked man with God, and the heritage of oppressors, which they receive from the Almighty.
27,14 If his children be multiplied, it is for the sword; and his offspring shall not have bread enough.
27,15 Those that remain of him shall be buried by pestilence, and his widows shall make no lamentation.
27,16 Though he heap up silver as the dust, and prepare raiment as the clay;
27,17 He may prepare it, but the just shall put it on, and the innocent shall divide the silver.
27,18 He buildeth his house as a moth, and as a booth which the keeper maketh.
27,19 He lieth down rich, but there shall be not to gather; he openeth his eyes, and his wealth is not.
27,20 Terrors overtake him like waters; a tempest stealeth him away in the night.
27,21 The east wind carrieth him away, and he departeth; and it sweepeth him out of his place.
27,22 Yea, it hurleth at him, and spareth not; he would fain flee from its power.
27,23 Men shall clap their hands at him, and shall hiss him out of his place.
28,1 For there is a mine for silver, and a place for gold which they refine.
28,2 Iron is taken out of the dust, and brass is molten out of the stone.
28,3 Man setteth an end to darkness, and searcheth out to the furthest bound the stones of thick darkness and of the shadow of death.
28,4 He breaketh open a shaft away from where men sojourn; they are forgotten of the foot that passeth by; they hang afar from men, they swing to and fro.
28,5 As for the earth, out of it cometh bread, and underneath it is turned up as it were by fire.
28,6 The stones thereof are the place of sapphires, and it hath dust of gold.
28,7 That path no bird of prey knoweth, neither hath the falcon's eye seen it;
28,8 The proud beasts have not trodden it, nor hath the lion passed thereby.
28,9 He putteth forth his hand upon the flinty rock; He overturneth the mountains by the roots.
28,10 He cutteth out channels among the rocks; and his eye seeth every precious thing.
28,11 He bindeth the streams that they trickle not; and the thing that is hid bringeth he forth to light. {P}

28,12 But wisdom, where shall it be found? And where is the place of understanding?
28,13 Man knoweth not the price thereof; neither is it found in the land of the living.
28,14 The deep saith: 'It is not in me'; and the sea saith: 'It is not with me.'
28,15 It cannot be gotten for gold, neither shall silver be weighed for the price thereof.
28,16 It cannot be valued with the gold of Ophir, with the precious onyx, or the sapphire.
28,17 Gold and glass cannot equal it; neither shall the exchange thereof be vessels of fine gold.
28,18 No mention shall be made of coral or of crystal; yea, the price of wisdom is above rubies.
28,19 The topaz of Ethiopia shall not equal it, neither shall it be valued with pure gold.
28,20 Whence then cometh wisdom? And where is the place of understanding?
28,21 Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls of the air.
28,22 Destruction and Death say: 'We have heard a rumor thereof with our ears.'
28,23 God understandeth the way thereof, and He knoweth the place thereof.
28,24 For He looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
28,25 When He maketh a weight for the wind, and meteth out the waters by measure.
28,26 When He made a decree for the rain, and a way for the storm of thunders;
28,27 Then did He see it, and declare it; He established it, yea, and searched it out.
28,28 And unto man He said: 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.'
29,1 {S} And Job again took up his parable, and said:
29,2 Oh that I were as in the months of old, as in the days when God watched over me;
29,3 When His lamp shined above my head, and by His light I walked through darkness;
29,4 As I was in the days of my youth, when the converse of God was upon my tent;
29,5 When the Almighty was yet with me, and my children were about me;
29,6 When my steps were washed with butter, and the rock poured me out rivers of oil!
29,7 When I went forth to the gate unto the city, when I prepared my seat in the broad place,
29,8 The young men saw me and hid themselves, and the aged rose up and stood;
29,9 The princes refrained talking, and laid their hand on their mouth;
29,10 The voice of the nobles was hushed, and their tongue cleaved to the roof of their mouth.
29,11 For when the ear heard me, then it blessed me, and when the eye saw me, it gave witness unto me;
29,12 Because I delivered the poor that cried, the fatherless also, that had none to help him.
29,13 The blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me; and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.
29,14 I put on righteousness, and it clothed itself with me; my justice was as a robe and a diadem.
29,15 I was eyes to the blind, and feet was I to the lame.
29,16 I was a father to the needy; and the cause of him that I knew not I searched out.
29

Jesus was their King but due to ignorance and not seeing the whole picture the Jews put him to death.

uh, Peter...it was the ROMANS.

"Jesus was their King"

Jesus was never a Jewish king.

"this was fortold in the book of Isiah"

No it wasn't. Isiah couldn't have foretold an account as it appears in the NT after being redacted by the Church fathers in the first centuries AD.

"the temple was destroyed and all information on the levite familys lost."

Beg your pardon? How do you think the Jews have preserved the Levite caste till this very day?

"So the Line of Priests were lost and it was fortold that Israle will not have a land to settle on in piece. Until Jesus returns."

1. Jesus was a Jew, a human, not God or the son of God. He won't return and didn't come back to life on the third day after death.

2. The Line of Priests (Kohanim) was preserved even better than that of the Levites. I'm afraid you've never done basic research in this area, like talking to any Jew who knows a thing or two about these topics. One clue for how the priestly line is extant is that certain Jewish names testify to their bearers as being of the priestly line, e.g. Maze"h (Hebrew acronym of From the Seed of Aharon the Priest), Katz (acronym of Righteous Priest).

"The Creators name is JEHOVAH translated into english I know Jewish people hold this name sacrad.

The one problem is, this name was derived mistakenly based on the vowels printed in a Jewish OT book under the tetragrammaton as was the custom at the time (16th century). The Ineffable Name most certainly is not "Jehovah".

" it should not be like that we all need to know our Creators name so we can get to know and have a personal relationship with him. The meaning of his name is (HE CAUSES TO BECOME) So his original purpose for Mandkind and the planet we live on will come to be as it was meant to be."

The Jewish deity's name has been researched extensively and the best in scholarship points to His name being Yahweh. (Broken up to its components it consists of four vowels: i--a--oo--eh)
In the modern movement of biblical Judaism some people even express this name in both writing and speech as it is directed in the Torah to invoke His real name.

"Over the years Jehovah has given mandkind the opotunity to dwell in some form of society. But Iook at the world really look and you will see things are happening just as it has been fortold. Not to know the name of your Creator is in my opinion wrong"

Then stop using the erroneous form "Jehovah" and say Yahweh. You're committing a grave sin by misnaming Him.

SCAPEGOATED JEW WRITES: "Jesus was a Jew, a human, not God or the son of God. He won't return and didn't come back to life on the third day after death."

BECKY: As a Bahai, I support the positive work of Christianity in bringing God's word to millions of people, but I personally have a lot of qualms about Jesus "Christ".

He was born a Jew. Lived his life as a Jew. And died a Jew.
As a Jew, he was well-versed with Jewish teachings. Many quotes which Christians credit Jesus with were actually Jewish teachings to which he has erroneously been assigned credit. Love they neighbor/Love thine enemy is one such example.

He was well aware of the prophesies of the new Messiah. I believe he entered Jerusalem on a donkey JUST to fulfill that one aspect of the signs of the Messiah.

Christians would say that the OT prophets prophesized that the Messiah would be a Nazareen. They claim that his home in Nazareth fulfilled that prophesy. But this is not true.

there is no historical record of Nazareth prior to 200 A.D.
NT Biblical accounts are clearly wrong in their descriptions of Nazareth beside a great lake. The Hebrew word for Nazareen means "one who refrains from drinking alcohol."

Jesus did NOT refrain from drinking alcohol.

Jesus was executed by the Romans. Crucifixtion is a Roman form of torture/humiliation/execution. The Roman conquerors did NOT enforce Jewish laws. The Sanhedrin didn't meet at night, never on Passover, and not at the home of the Sadjecees. A death sentence from the Sanhedrin was by stoning. This was implemented by throwing the convict off a high place onto the rocks below, and if the person is not instantly killed, the public pelt them with rocks until they are dead.

The Koran reports that Jesus was not crucified.

As far as the suffering of Christ, he had lots of company. the Romans executed so many Jews they ran out of trees. Between 400,000 and 600,000 Jews were crucified by the Roman occupiers.

One theory, highly blasphemous, that has been circulated is that Judas kissed the wrong guy in the garden of Gesthemene. By misidentifying Jesus, the Roman arrested, tried, and executed the wrong guy!! That explains why Peter didn't recognize him. And Mary Magdalene and Mary mother of Jesus crying and wailing at the foot of the cross, were highly motivated to put on a good performance.

Who was crucified instead, you say?

the guy was one of those whackos who THINK they are the Messiah!! There were plenty such wingnuts floating around in those days too.

But the body posed a problem. Anyone who knew him could easily identify the body as NOT being Jesus. So several strong men by dark of night rolled away the stone, and the body (and the evidence) disappeared forever.

It was no small trick for Jesus to show up later and show his friends that he was 'ha ha" Still alive!!! That rose from the dead story was short-lived though. After a while he didn't come around anymore. Hence the "holy spirit" myth had to be born.

The whole thing starts to sound like a real crock before too long of critical examination. And what further wisdom did Jesus bring that was not there in the previous Jewish teachings? that there is a shortcut to heaven?
All you have to do is accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior? What about the 2nd commandment? Thou shalt have no OTHER Gods before me.

I really have trouble with the whole Jesus story.

When Constantine converted to Christianity, the Catholics had to rewrite the Bible quickly to make the Romans look better. Hence they quickly blamed Jesus death on the Jews!! And Constantine's first edict was to execute any Jews in Constantinople who hadn't also converted to Christianity. No wonder the Jews are not too crazy about their Christian brethern.

My final objection to Jesus is the way he changed the Jewish custom of drinking wine and bread on the Sabbath.
In the Jewish household, the wine-- a glass filled nearly to the top--almost over-flowing with a sweet wine--represents life, and the prayer said means that we should recognize all the sweetness life offers us, and to not forget to enjoy the sweetness of life.

Jesus changed this to drinking HIS blood. yuck.

And the bread (usually an egg-twist bread called Challah) symbolizes the marriage of God's work and the work of man, since the bread represents both the sun, the wheat, the soil, and the rain as well as the sower, the harvester, the threasher, the miller, and the baker.

Jesus changed this to eating his dead body. Gross!!!

At least he didn't screw up the candles!!!

I don't believe that anyone was resurrected, although I do believe in sleight of hand.

Congratulations,very true, insightfull, Jewish people are led by the nose, exactly like Christians, Muslims, and the rest.Here is something much bigger at work, and when the people of the world are at each others throat, they benefit,,,,,,,i am talking about the Illuminati.....for those who know who they are, ok, for those who dont, read up on it, Google it, you 'll be amazed, and perhaps a lot of things which didn't make sense untill now, will be cleared up.
www.davidicke.com

Rule # 1: In the Middle East, it is always the Arabs
that attack first, and it's always Israel who defends itself. This is
called "Retaliation".

Rule # 2: The Arabs, whether Palestinians or Lebanese, are not
allowed to kill Israelis. This is called "Terrorism"

Rule # 3: Israel has the right to kill Arab civilians, this is called
"Self-Defense", or these days "Collateral Damage".

Rule # 4: When Israel kills too many civilians. The Western world
calls for restraint. This is called the "Reaction of the
International Community".

Rule # 5: Palestinians and Lebanese do not have the right to capture
Israeli military, not even a limited number, not even 1 or 2. This is
called "Kidnapping".

Rule # 6: Israel has the right to capture as many Palestinians as
they want (Palestinians: around 10000 to date, 300 of which are children,
Lebanese: 1000s to date, being held without trial). There is no limit;
there is no need for proof of guilt or trial. This is called "War on
Terrorism".

Rule # 7: When you say "Hezbollah", always be sure to add "supported
by Syria and Iran". this is called: "Axis of Evil"

Rule # 8: When you say "Israel", never say "supported by the USA, the
UK and other European countries", for people (God forbid) might
believe this is not an equal conflict. This is called "Helping our
Friends".

Rule # 9: When it comes to Israel, don't mention the words "occupied
territories", "UN resolutions", "Geneva conventions". This could
distress the audience and is called "Anti-Semitism".

Rule # 10: Israelis speak better English than Arabs. This is why we
let them speak out as much as possible, so that they can explain
rules 1 through 9. This is called "Neutral Journalism".

Rule # 11: If you don't agree with these rules or if you favor the
Arab side over the Israeli side, you must be a very dangerous
anti-Semite. You may even have to make a public apology if you
express your honest opinion like Mel Gibson. this is called "Democracy".

Im hayu samim et hamo'ach shelcha b'tarnegol, hu haya ratz yashar l'shochet

Some call me Ya yeled im migbalot ve teudot.

When the IDF was forced to take the illegal settlers out of Palestine, and they went kicking and screaming and crying to their "G-d", my friends daughter said, "Jews are funny".
I corrected her and said these are not real Jews, they are rabid frothing at the mouth bug-eyed zionist filth. I let here know that there are some smart, critically thinking Jews who oppose zionism and oppose the Israeli terror that we've seen for so long.

In a state established on a founding myth -- that the native Palestinian population left of their own accord rather than that they were ethnically cleansed -- and in one that seeks its legitimacy through a host of other lies, such as that the occupation of the West Bank is benign and that Gaza's has ended, deception becomes a political way of life.

And so it is in the "relative calm" that has followed Israel's month-long pounding of Lebanon, a calm in which Israelis may no longer be dying but the Lebanese most assuredly are as explosions of US-made cluster bombs greet the south's returning refugees and the anonymous residents of Gaza perish by the dozens each and every week under the relentless and indiscriminate strikes of the Israeli air force while the rest slowly starve in their open-air prison.

Israeli leaders deceive as much in "peace" as they do in war, which is why it is worth examining the slow trickle of disinformation coming from Tel Aviv and reflecting on where it is leading.

Many of Israel's war lies have already been deeply implanted in Western consciousness by the media:

# that Hizbullah "started" the war by capturing two Israeli soldiers rather than that Israel maintained a hostile and provocative posture for the previous six years by daily sending its warplanes and spy drones into Lebanese airspace;
# that Hizbullah's launching of rockets into Israel was an act of aggression, even though they were fired after, and in response to, Israel's massive bombing of civilian areas in Lebanon;
# that Hizbullah, unlike Israel, used the local civilian populaton as human shields, even though Israel's continual and comprehensive aerial spying on south Lebanon produced almost no evidence of this;
# that Hizbullah, not Israel, targeted civilians, despite a death toll that suggests the exact opposite;
# and that Hizbullah's arming by Iran is entirely illegitimate, even though the weapons were used to defend Lebanon from a long-prepared Israeli attack, while Israel has an absolute and unchallengeable right to receive its arsenal from the US, even though those armaments have been used offensively, mostly against Lebanese and Palestinian civilian populations.

Similar deceptions are now being sown after the fighting.

For example, it now appears to be accepted wisdom that Hizbullah's rocket attacks on Israel led to one million Israelis being made refugees. The most senior commentator with Israel's Haaretz newspaper, Yoel Marcus, made exactly this point the other day in an op-ed in Britain's Guardian newspaper, when he observed that "about a million Israeli refugees" had been forced to leave the north. Marcus appears to take an extremely liberal view of the meaning of the word "about".

In fact, it is impossible that one million Israelis could have been made refugees, as a quick calculation proves. There are approximately 1.2 million Israelis living in the north, with the population divided equally between Jewish and Arab citizens. Hardly any Arabs left the north during the Hizbullah rocket attacks, either through a residual fear that their homes might be taken by the state, as were those of Palestinians who fled or were terrorised away during the 1948 war, or because they had nowhere else to go. Most assumed, probably rightly, that the Jewish population in the country's centre would not welcome them as refugees.

It is also reported that 300,000 Israelis sought sanctuary in bomb shelters. Such shelters were open only in the north, and do not exist in the country's Arab areas, so those using the shelters must have been the north's Jewish citizens. Which means that if 300,000 of the 600,000 Jews in northern Israel were in shelters, there can have been at most -- assuming all other Israeli Jews fled -- 300,000 refugees.

Why does Marcus want us to believe that one million Israelis were turned out their homes? Because it helps Israel portray the threat posed by Hizbullah in a more terrifying light and because it makes more convincing the claim that Israelis suffered as much as the Lebanese, one million of whom really did end up as refugees.

It also conveniently glosses over the fact that most of the 300,000 (or fewer) Israeli "refugees" were staying with relatives or friends 100km or so further south in spare rooms and out of harm's way. They were not, as were the Lebanese, fleeing for their lives -- their convoys under fire from warplanes -- and living in the open air without shelter, food or water and still within range of missile attacks.

Outside of Kiryat Shmona, close to the border with Lebanon, almost all of Israel's "refugees" returned to untouched homes, whereas tens of thousands of Lebanon's refugees have found their houses turned to rubble, and amid that rubble cluster bombs that threaten to kill and maim them.

But again, that is not what the Israeli government wants us to believe, which is why it published a report this week claiming that 12,000 buildings had been damaged by Hizbullah rocket attacks. That seems a strangely large figure given that the Israeli army says only 4,000 rockets were fired into Israel and that a substantial proportion supposedly landed in open ground. The same report also says more than 400 bush fires were started by the rockets.

So how and why did the government reach the figure of 12,000 buildings? That would mean that each rocket that hit a structure damaged at least another three buildings. Anyone who has seen the destruction inflicted by a Katyusha rocket (Hizbullah's main weapon) will known that it does little more than punch a hole in whatever surface it hits. The spray of shrapnel, however, does minor damage to neighbouring structures (though much worse harm to human beings), such as piercing the rendering on homes or breaking windows. In other words, most of those 12,000 "structures" -- and of course none of us can know what Israeli officials are including as a structure (individual apartments, garages, dog kennels?) -- suffered minor damage that can be fixed in an afternoon.
Hizbullah is reporting that 15,000 buildings were destroyed: that is, wrecked beyond repair by Israel's missile attacks. As is the tradition in Arab society, many of those several-storey buildings were home to multiple families, meaning that probably many more "homes" than 15,000 have been destroyed. Some Lebanese sources estimate that more than 100,000 homes have been ruined.

So why the need to promote that inflated number? Because Hizbullah is reporting that 15,000 buildings were destroyed: that is, wrecked beyond repair by Israel's missile attacks. As is the tradition in Arab society, many of those several-storey buildings were home to multiple families, meaning that probably many more "homes" than 15,000 have been destroyed. Some Lebanese sources estimate that more than 100,000 homes have been ruined. But for Israel the goal is to make it look as though its own people's suffering is the same as that of the Lebanese.

Interestingly, the estimates of economic damage inflicted on Lebanon by Israel's onslaught stand at about $5 billion, a figure which again Israel says neatly fits with its own assessments of its losses. It seems that each time one of those American-supplied munitions was dropped it did as much harm to Israel's defence budget as it did to the place where it exploded. The point presumably is that, if and when the reparations account is being settled, Israel will claim its own losses cancel out those of Lebanon's.

Many of Israel's deceptions are also being used domestically to determine who will benefit -- and who will be excluded -- from the government's largesse as it plans the north's "reconstruction". No suprises about which way the wind is blowing.

Government ministers, for example, have been claiming in the war's aftermath that Arab -- not Jewish -- municipal leaders fled from their communities to avoid the rocket fire. For example, after a tour of the north, the interior minister, Ronnie Bar-On, argued that the failings in some towns and villages to cope with the war stemmed from the fact that local leaders "ran away, at the highest levels". Asked to name the mayors and local councillors who had fled, Bar-On would only say: "Those people I am referring to ... I can say that in their towns I saw no synagogues."

Why make this claim, even though all the evidence suggests that the Arab populations of the north stayed put during the fighting while, as we have seen, a large number of Jewish citizens did flee? There are two reasons.

First, the government has been embarrassed by reports that nearly half of the civilians killed by rockets were Arab, and by suggestions that the reasons for this were the state's long-standing failure to protect Arab communities by building public bomb shelters, providing air raid sirens and disseminating advice from the civil defence authorities in Arabic. Better to shift the blame on to their elected leaders.

And second, the government is amassing huge sums of money for the reconstruction effort from Jewish groups in America and Europe and is looking for an excuse not to fund work in Arab communities. Another senior politician, Effi Eitam, leader of the National Religious Party, has accused Arab authorities of "pretending to be deprived". The north's Arabs will most likely be cut out of tasting the reconstruction pie. Certainly there is no discussion of building public bomb shelters for Arab towns, even though few in Israel appear to believe the ceasefire with Hizbullah will hold long.

Similarly, the environment minister Gideon Ezra has stated that Arab communities in the north should not receive money to rehabilitate their separate and grossly deprived education system, on the grounds that during the war "the residents there behaved as per usual, as if nothing had happened" -- a reference that sounds like they are being penalised because they did not flee. His reasoning appears popular, among the public and in the cabinet, because Arab citizens generally opposed Israel's war.

A related deception being promoted by the government is that it is committed to compensating workers and businesses in the north who lost income during the war. But the list drawn up by the finance ministry of areas eligible for compensation reveals that all Arab communities have been excluded, apart from four Druze villages (the Druze serve in the army and are treated by Israel as a national group separate from the rest of the Arab population). Most of the money, millions of dollars, is being made available only to Jewish citizens, even though Arab citizens comprise half the population of the north. What a contrast to Hizbullah's non-discriminatory policy of compensating all Lebanese harmed by the fighting, whether from its own Shia community or Christian, Druze and Sunni Muslims.

(Incidentally, according to Haaretz, in one court case being brought by an Arab engineer from the village of Fassouta who, unlike his Jewish colleagues, is being denied compensation for loss of income during the war, it is noted that he could not leave his home because the Israeli army was firing artillery batteries stationed on the edge of the village. So much for Israel's argument, adopted by the United Nation's representative Jan Egeland, that only Hizbullah was using civilians as human shields!)

Palestinians inspect the rubble of a damaged house after Israeli troops pulled out of the Gaza City neighborhood of Shuja'iyyah, 31 August 2006. (MaanImages/Wesam Saleh)

Israel's post-war deceptions, of course, embrace the Palestinians living under occupation too. Yuval Diskin, head of the Shin Bet secret service, is claiming that, inspired by the success of Hizbullah, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are turning Rafah into "the garden of Eden of weapons smuggling". Apparently Israel knows about 15,000 guns, 4 million bullets, 38 rockets, 10-15 Katyusha rockets, and dozens of anti-tank missiles that have entered Gaza through the Rafah crossing in the past year. Israel believes that just about everything bar tanks and planes is coming across the short border with Egypt it still controls. In a few years, says Diskin, Israel will face the same situation in Gaza as in south Lebanon. We will just have to take his word for that.

But there is a problem. Since November 2005, say human rights groups, the Rafah crossing has been almost continuously shut. Those weapons must have been smuggled in a stampede on the day or two when the crossing was open.

Further doubt is cast on Diskin's claims by a report in Haaretz this week that the blanket closure of Rafah crossing has continued since one of Israel's soldiers was captured by Palestinian fighters two months ago. The reason for the crossing's closure, recommended by Shin Bet, is also noted by Haaretz -- and it has nothing to do with weapons smuggling. The blockade was imposed as a way to put pressure on the Palestinians to release the Israeli soldier, a form of collective punishment illegal under international law.

Diskin's comparisons between developments in Gaza and south Lebanon are at best fanciful. How Gaza's resistance fighters will be able to build hundreds of underground bunkers in the Strip's flat, sandy terrain unknown to Israel as its planes and tanks freely roam the area, and as Military Intelligence operates its network of collaborators, is not explained. But Diskin's conclusions presumably will be used to justify Israel's continuing assaults on Gaza's civilian population. Better, the argument will go, not to wait to be caught out as in Lebanon.

The biggest deception of all, however, relates to the reasons for Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's decision this week to reject the establishment of an independent commission of inquiry, headed by a judge, that would have been free to investigate all aspects of the war. Instead Olmert has set up two separate internal committees of investigation, one to examine government decision-making and the other the army's conduct. (A third watchdog body, under the government's state comptroller, is supposed to look at failings in civil defence.)

Most Israelis are deeply unhappy about what one commentator has called Olmert's "committee of non-inquiry". Separate investigations mean that the remit of each committee will be very narrow, focusing on technical issues and failings, and unable to look at the wider picture.

The members of the committee who will be investigating Olmert have been handpicked by him. All the judges approached to head the committee turned down the offer, as did the country's foremost constitutional law expert, Amnon Rubinstein, apparently aware that being party to a whitewash would permanently tarnish his reputation.

It will now be led by a former head of Mossad, Israel's international spy agency. Observers have speculated that 77-year-old Nahum Admoni's room for criticising the government will be extremely limited, given that he himself was admonished by the Kahan Commission of Inquiry that in 1982 investigated Israel's role in the massacre of Palestinian civilians in the Lebanese refugee camps of Sabra and Shatilla. Admoni failed to give "an unequivocal warning about the danger entailed in the Phalangists' entry into the camps" that resulted in the slaughter of more than 1,000 Palestinians. Mossad was keenly involved with the Christian Phalangists, attempting to install them in power as a puppet regime.

Kahan took no action against Admoni, however, because he -- like Olmert now -- had only recently taken up his job. It will be hard for Admoni to treat Olmert more harshly than Kahan treated him two decades ago.

Why would Olmert want a discredited committee rather than a proper commission of inquiry, especially if, as he claims, the reason against the latter is that it will take years to report? By then, he may be out of office and never have to face the fall-out. The official reason, according to Olmert, is that such a delay would paralyse the army. But most commissions of inquiry have produced interim reports, making recommendations for reforms, within a few months and have then taken their time to produce a final report.

Other factors are at play, relating to the past and the future. The obvious one is that a powerful commission would almost certainly investigate the six-year build-up to the war following Israel's withdrawal from south Lebanon. There is a real danger that its investigations might throw an uncomfortable light on Israel's motives for continuing provocative overflights by its war planes in Lebanon; on its refusal to hand over the maps of the minefields it planted in south Lebanon during its two decades of occupation; on its refusal to release the last remaining Lebanese prisoners in its jails, thereby perpetuating a state of hostilities; and its refusal to negotiate with Lebanon and Syria about an end to its occupation of the Golan Heights and with it a resolution of the disputed status of the corridor of land known as the Shebaa Farms, which Lebanon claims.

But there is an even bigger threat posed by the establishment of a commission. It might unearth evidence that the war against Lebanon was long planned, that it had nothing to do with the capture of two soldiers on the border, that it was coordinated with the United States, and that its ultimate goal was an attack on Iran.

Olmert, and Israel's political and military leaders, do not need another Kahan Commission -- or another embarrassment like its findings about Israel's involvement with the Sabra and Shatilla massacre. Israel needs a free hand to strike unchallenged when the next stage of the war on terror takes shape. Olmert admitted as much in his coded observation that a commission of inquiry would distract from the central goal: "to focus on the future and the Iranian threat".

A clue where Israel might be heading next emerged this week when Olmert's trusted international ambassador, Shimon Peres, "revealed" that Iran is trying to transfer its nuclear know-how to terrorist organisations. Peres did not name Hizbullah but it is only time before the link is made and a new casus belli established.


Jonathan Cook is a writer and journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. His book, Blood and Religion: The Unmasking of the Jewish and Democratic State, is published by Pluto Press.