All of us are taking the wrong approach to solving the problem with unregulated migration.

The Anties will only support regulated entry into the US and want Mexico to take responsibility for its citizens’ welfare to reduce the number of persons coming to the US to find prosperity.

The Open Border people want the US to allow unregulated migration but also want Mexico to take responsibility for it human rights violations.

We should barter a trade off. Let’s agree to provide the undocumented immigrants that are already here with a contingency residency that will allow them to work and, based on their behavior, offer them the ability to become US citizens.

Let’s join forces and demand that the US assist the next president of Mexico, which will probably be Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador (AMLO), so that he can reform Mexico and reduce poverty, provide jobs and healthcare and build its economy so that people won’t have to leave in search of a better life.

AMLO has stated that he wants to address the immigration problem and with our support he could succeed. Unlike Fox, who has catered to Bushco to advance US Business interest in Mexico, AMLO will put a stop to that and move for his proposed reforms.

AMLO promises 50 reforms. This is a list of the top five:

1) Recognize the rights of the Indigenous

2) Establish a pension for the aged

3) Provide financial support for the disabled

4) Socialize Medicine and Healthcare

5) Guarantee a minimum wage above inflation

The top 20 include these reforms:

9) Guarantee free public education

11) Build 200 high schools and 30 public universities

12) Fund scientific studies

14) Support programs for the arts and culture

15) Promote literacy

17) Support agricultural reform

20) To grown lumber producing timber

Here is the site that list all 50 reforms http://www.lopez-obrador.com.mx/compromisos.html. It’s in Spanish.

If Obrador's elected and if we can include a period of transition for him to get his house in order and if we protect the people within the U.S. borders, I can work with this. I will stand in line to pressure Bush and his replacement.

Ayatollah, Border Raven, Minutewoman--are you in?

I like this guy. Did I just say that?

1. The border will need to be secured, as planned.

1.a. The Border Patrol or the US Military will need to verify the border is being respected, and drug and human trafficking, through Mexico, has been arrested.

2. Immigration will need to be brought under control.

3. Some undocs will need to go home, as there's not enough work for all of them, in the USA.

4. Large employers, will need to be targeted, for hiring undocs, evading taxes, avoiding benefits and abusing employees.

Can we all join hands on this? I think we can.

Is it too late to join together and stop CAFTA, SHAFTA, or what ever the recent incarnation is?

BR

Where is the proof? Where are the enforcable rules? This just sounds like more promises from front faces. I want to see action first. I don't believe anyone anymore. ANYONE!!!!!!!!

I agree AyatollahGondola, some sort of proof is needed. I contacted AMLO's campaign headquarters and asked if they could offer a website in English so that more people in the US can read about his accomplishments.

From what I have read of his past actions, AMLO seems like the real thing. He has worked hard to bring programs to the poor like healthcare, jobs and housing.

He said he would "clean up" every agency from the department of justice to the smallest municipal police forces as part of his plan to defeat the drug cartels that have turned some parts of the border into war zones.

He also said illegal immigration is the key issue to work on together with the United States.

AMLO said, "The country is emptying because our economic policy has not been working. This will not be stopped by more border patrols or by threats of harsh punishment. There has to be growth in Mexico."

"natives of no one country should receive over 10 percent of the total quota numbers authorized in any one year. This will insure that the pattern of immigration is not distorted by excessive demand from any one country." President John Kennedy, 1963

Yet in spite of President Kennedy's goal that the US immigration system treat everyone in the world equally, legal/legalized immigration from Mexico is 32% of total US immigration. Citizenship for illegal aliens would raise this to over 50%. The current situation which is unfair for everyone else in the world would become even more unfair.

One way around this would be to grant green cards to Mexicans in excess of the 10% quota in an amount equal to the number of Americans that Mexico grants permanent residence to.

Using the overall immigration level of 550,000 a year as recommended by the Barbara Jordan Immigration Reform Commission, the 10% quota level would give green cards to 55,000 Mexicans every year. Then for example if Mexico gave permanent residence to 100,000 Americans every year, the US could give green cards to an additional 100,000 Mexicans, for a total of about 155,000 Mexicans receiving green cards.

If all the reforms you list were enacted, I am sure more Americans would want to move to Mexico.

Mexicans that applied to enter legally and waited would be given green cards first over those that entered illegally.

Also, birthright citizenship laws in the US would have to be changed to match those of Mexico. Right now, Mexico only grants automatic citizenship to the children of Citizens and legal permanent residents, not to temporary entrants or illegal aliens.

Now I guess all we have to do is hire Rob Allyn to promote Obrador for Mexican President!

How does Obrador propose paying for all this?

Will he raise taxes on the 15 Mexican billionaires, who currently only pay half as much as comparable US billionaires?

Will he privatize Pemex and the power industry, in order to increase efficiency and thus more royalty payments to the Mexican treasury?

Those are some good points Tim.

Wouldn’t it be great if Mexico’s economy was as attractive to Americans (not including Mega-Corps) as ours is to the Mexicans? That would truly create a desire to establish an open border, or at least more liberal entry regulations.

Tim I checked out the website you listed and some of the info is incorrect and it ignores a key point, persons from Mexico are not Hispanic but Indigenous and unlike any other ethnic group in the western hemisphere, the Americas are their continents, just like Asia is for Asians, Africa for Africans and Europe for Europeans. Don’t make the error of condoning imperialism.

Anyway, there are lots of unique issues at play here and can’t be address by splitting the pie in equal pieces.

I’m sure AMLO wants nothing to do with Rob Allyn.

That is a good question.

Mexico is considered to have many resources, but they are controlled by US interests.

I think that is what worries Bushco the most. AMLO may nationalize the oil industry and agriculture and limit US access to natural resources.

AMLO also plans to increase exports with Latin America, Europe and China, but also stop China's bootleg products that are flooding Mexico.

Pachuco says, "Mexico is considered to have many resources, but they are controlled by US interests."

Please elaborate.

What resources and who controls them?

amlo is a socialist. the mexican socialist vote will be split by sub-comondante marcos who will be campaigning under the name: candidate zero. his plans are to call amlo a baught off, corrupt politico.

http://www.chicanoforums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3585

either way, mexico has to improve its gdp or these promises by amlo will only drive mexico into more debt and, hence, poverty.

as far as tim bihn's comment "Mexico only grants automatic citizenship to the children of Citizens and legal permanent residents"

you are mis-informed. mexico grants birthright citizenship to ANYONE born on mexican soil.

VC

So, completing the Wall, will help improve Mexico's population growth? I Love it.

:)

I WILL NOT GET ON MY KNEES FOR THE NEO CON GOD OF WAR /GREED AND HATE -----

THEY DONT WANT PEOPLE OF COLOR TO BE EQUAL THEY WANT US TO OBEY--

I don’t fear Mexicans but



I DO FEAR



"The wisdom of Ann Coulter" who wrote in a syndicated column on September 12 that in responding to terrorists "we should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

HOW WELL IS THAT PLAN GOING I ASK?

I THINK THIS STATEMENT IS THE NEO CONS WAY OF LIFE-WAR/PROFIT/LIE/A NEO CON FALSE GOD OF FEAR/THEN REPEAT THIS OVER AND OVER UNTILL YOURE POCKETS ARE FULLED OF Halliburton OILL CONTRACTS-



GEORGE BUSH-

DARK VADER - President of the United States - Richard B. Cheney

THE TRIINTY BROAD CASTING SYSTEM AKA NETWORK-Jesus is for sale-

-LYING FOR WAR PROFITS-

TOM DELAY-

SPYING ON AMERICANS-

USING THE CONCEPT OF GOD TO ASK FOR DEATH AGAINST ANOTHER MAN THANK U PAT ROBERTSON-

HAVING TO SUE WALLMART TO HAVE A LUNCHBREAK OH AND NOT TO UNDERPAY ME IF IAM A WOMEN-

SOCCER MOMS WHO WANT GUN RACKS IN THERE HUMMERS WHO LIVE IN SUBURBIA-

A HILLARY DUFF- JESSICA ASHELY SIMPSON -BRITTTNEY SPEARS –WORLD TOUR-WE CAN CALL THE TOUR- RHYTEMLESS NATION 06-OR TONE DEATH O6 ----

MUSIC FACT FOR YOU –

NICE FIRM TITS DON’T MAKE YOU SING BETTER-NEITHER DOSES THROWING UP YOURE FOOD-----

DISRESPECTING The Aztecs/Mexican -CULTURE FOR WANTING THE SAME DREAMS AS WHITE PIONEERS DID BACK IN THE DAY-WITH OUT THAT PIONEER VERSION OF KILLING OFF PEOPLE FOR LAND AND MAKING YOURE SELF THE HEROS IN ALL THE WESTERN MOVIES WHEN BLOOD OF WOUNDED KNEE-STILL STAINS THE AMERICAN FLAG--

-GOD BLESS THE PEOPLE OF THE FIRST NATION-MAY ARE CHILDREN BE ABLE TO STUDY TRUE AMERIKAN HISTORY WITH OUT RESTRICTION -



MINUTEMEN WHO HIDE BEHIND THE CONCEPT OF FREEDOM AND JUSTICE BUT AT THE SAME TIME MEMBERS OF THE SKINHEADS AND KLU KLUX KLAN-

TORTURE-IN AMERIKA AND OVER SEAS

AMERICAN TROOPS BEING USE AS ASSASSINS FOR PROFIT-NOT FOR THE PROTECTION OF ITS PEOPLE-(((((!!!!!!Bring the troops home now- bring the troops home now!!!!!!! BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW)))))))))))



FOX NEWS FOR LYING PERIOD!

DEMOCRATS FOR BEING TO UPTIGHT AND NOT STANDING AGAINST EVIL LIKE TRUE KEEPERS OF THE GATE-QUICK TO TELL YOU WHATS WRONG BUT WEAK ON ACTUALLY PROTECTING YOU FROM THAT WRONG-IF YOU ARE THE ANSWER TO EVIL AND UNJUSTICE TO NEO CON POLICY



THEN FIGHT/STAND/ FOR US ALL OF US GAY OR NON GAY Christians OR NON---BUDDHEST OR BI—MEXICAN WITH A GREEN CARD OR NOT- STAND FOR THE PEOPLE—NO MATTER THE LABEL—STAND OR SIT DOWN-



FEMA ((George bush don’t like black people neither dose fema)

POLICE MEN AND WOMEN WHO KNOW RIGHT NOW THERE FELLOW OFFICERS ARE BREAKING THE LAW BUT SAY AND DO NOTHING BUT WANT FULL RESPECT FROM THE PUBLIC WHEN ONE OF THERE OFFICERS DIE IN THE LINE OF DUTY-

UPN CHANNEL 13 IN LOS ANGELES FOR ACTUALLY BEING FOXES NEWS IN DISGUISE---

UPN 13 NEWS TEAM Lauren Sanchez (((((((AKA –SELL OUT)))))

FOR BEING NEO CON EYE CANDY / A WALKING Personal Floatation Device

THEN AN ACTUAL NEWS REPORTER-

SHE SEEMS TO BE THE ONLY MEXCANS THE NEO CONS AND THE MINUTEMEN SEEM TO LOVE-

I WONDER WHY?



THE NEO CON GOD IS WHAT I FEAR BEFORE IAM SCARED OF A MAN AND HIS FAMILY WANTING THE SAME DREAMS /FREEDOMS WE CLAIM TO HOLD SO DEAR SO TRUE-



OH AND Bill O'Reilly-

Aka bill lie so freely for his fake war on CHRISTMAS-

IAM NOT REALLY SCARED OF HIM WE ALL KNOW A POSSER WHEN WE SEE ONE-IAM MORE CONCERN OF THE ONES WHO THINK HE A ACTUAL HUMAN BEING WITH A POINT---HES A NEO CON CYBORG BUILT FOR LIES AND SPIN_



THESE ARE THE THINGS I FEAR BEFORE I FEAR A MAN OR WOMAN SEARCHING FOR A LIVING- IN THE WORLD OF AMERIKAN LABOR--GOD BLESS ALL THE LABOERS FOR ALL YOU DO--



I SAY NO TO THE NEO CON GOD--- VIVA LA RAZA!!!!!! Raza is race (black, Latino, Americans, etc....)

TO ALL -NOT JUST GOD BLESS AMERICA GOD BLESS THE WORLD!!!!!!!!

DOWN WITH ALL NEO CON GODS-



RATM ((((WE SHALL AND WILL OVERCOME BET THAT)))))

All these companies back certain political lobbies in Mexico:

3M, BASF, Bristol, Coca Cola, Colgate - Palmolive, Dupont, IBM, Interbank, Kodak, Marriott, Procter & Gamble.

There are more, but these are the best known.

more comments by border raven:

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showforum=49

I believe that Border Raven acted in good faith and tried to find common ground.

Unfortunately, SOS is not ready for any move towards bridging xenophobia and some of their members are still hostile towards Latinos.

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?s=976b62acbf3b0b8a06c289eaca122267&showtopic=6761

Latinos may not be ready either, since very few have responded to this attempted truce except to point out that SOS has no desire to barter.

Well, we made a step, in a process, that will take many more steps. We cannot expect everyone to get on the trail, but eventually we will find some common ground, some agreement, and fight our mutual enemies.

Thanks for your willingness to find that common ground.

I'm sure time will resolve our problems.

maybe someday we can be friends with david duke, too