I used to post on Indymedia as "Minuteman CC" or "CC". Because of the childish behavior, I decided to stop posting. But because of what I've seen in the Gilchrist campaign and me being kicked out, which I'll go public on, I guess I have some answering to do here. Since I have posted on here. Right?

Anyways, I plan on typing a complete statement on my experience and why I'm no longer in SOS or anything related to the Minuteman Project. And why I was kicked out of the Gilchrist campaign and why I'm happy to not be in it. And what I'm going public with.

You hear that Mary Parker Lewis?

According to her, I'm a "former Anarchist." Wow. :-)

As for the whole issue of people being here against the U.S. immigration laws, I'm largely taking a step back. I see it as a cycle of rights, wrongs, and in-betweens going in all directions. I think of myself more as a simple guy. I act on no-brainers.

For example, I promoted Buy Nothing Day. Excessive consummerism is a problem, a no-brainer. I don't have to do much soul searching to take on that issue.

Anyways, I'll end by stating that a couple of white nationalists indeed did campaign work in the Gilchrist offices. But I won't identify them for two reasons. One is because while I'm sure they're over 18 years of age, I can't guarantee that. And two, because of my safety or at least the intention by others to affect my safety.

Stay tuned! Maybe here to start with, or maybe I'll go ahead to L.A. Times or Fox or CNN or something. I'll have to figure out how to do this. Maybe KPFK?

I was at the KFI event the day before the election to stick it to Jim's slimebag career campaign managers. But I didn't really have an effect on the election results.

And for the record, I support the Urban Farm in South Central L.A. and hope it stays. Ralph Horowitz can eat ass.

Me again, I forgot to add that I'm not trading sides. I'll never support the Aztlan takeover idea or the Mexica movement, whatever they're about. I've always viewed this nation and the world from outside or above and had some independent views. How exactly I got into SOS and MMP, I'll explain in my statement when I get it finished. Then I get personal closure.

When I arrived at the KFI event early, the campaign and KFI had me leave right away. How disappointing :-(

Oh well. One of them said the police are looking for me. Hahaha! Here's a photo of a squad car that appeared after I finally walked out of the place.

I've got some stuff to sort together. Then I'll explain the challenge I personally issued to Jim, which he didn't answer on KFI.

I believed in Jim for a time and admired him. Now I find out I don't know him afterall.

For some closure I really need to get this out. So, please be nice? :-)

Sorry, to clarify, I used to post as "Cliff," "CC," and "SOS person." I'm Cliff and I'll post as Jammer CC now, my Adbusting name.

And while I'm making another reply, I'll explain the challenge I issued to Jim.

Some time on Saturday I left a couple of messages on Jim's answering machine, which I know he answers and has before. I challenged him to reject white supremacy and denounce any help or support that any white supremacists or nationalists would offer him, right on KFI. He got on KFI on Monday, but didn't do this. I even spoke with Barbara Coe and asked her to pass along a reminder. The Univision lady too. I wish I had seen Steve Young arrive so I could speak with him and ask if he can pass along the challenge live on KFI. Oh well. I know Jim got the message and fact is, he didn't answer the challenge. Ah shucks.

So I did what anyone else left out in the cold would do. I held a sign that said "I reject white supremacy. Jim Gilchrist did not answer my personal challenge to do the same on KFI. How disappointing!"

I held that one, but not as much as others. I wanted to say that, but even that was a bit strong so I held others such as "I'm going public, I'll hide nothing!" and "I got kicked out of the Gilchrist campaign, ask me why!"(which started with me ratting out Nazi types)

Yeah,
We see this on every issue. The ones who can't find themselves aligned with any side for one reason or another, or for so many reasons, so they bounce back and forth between camps showing the face that those they are appealing to would like to see. "Please let me me in and I'll be YOUR friend now". But the indecisiveness or fear of committment will surface again shortly, and soon expose the one who claims to be purer than everyone else as little more than an opportunist who wants to stay on everyones' good side so they can claim to be on the winning side no matter the outcome.

"I think of myself more as a simple guy. I act on no-brainers."

A man's gotta know his limitations all right C........

Looks like someone isn't respectful of my privacy. Let's hope someone at Indymedia is.

As for names I may drop like Mary Parker Lewis or Steve Eichler, or anyone else I've come across, those names are publicly known already. I didn't consent to have my full name publicly known. But whatever, because I'm gonna speak out anyways, right? Of course.

As for being a Minuteman, depends on who you ask. I was at the border four times. First time I came with Jim Gilchrist himself to Jacumba to visit Tim Donelly's group. And yeah I played around with a pair of binoculars and looked across the border. Jim said I'm an honorary Minuteman. Second time was the next day in the Gilchrist campaign van.

Third time was back to Jacumba, then to Campo in the same day. These were one day visits.

The fourth time, I did an overnight observation in Campo working with Jim Chase. We were the California Minutemen at the time. He has since ditched the Minuteman name, which is a smart move. The Minuteman name is tainted.

As for one photo that El Chivo posted of me hanging with a skinhead looking guy, stay tuned for my statement. I'll go ahead and include that too.

As for Ayatollah, just keep making yourself believe. I know what I know. You coming to Glendale? See you there!

Ex-MMCC, if you're looking for a contact with the Washington Post, please email me using a real email address (yahoo, gmail, netscape, and other "throw away" domain names get filtered by my spam filter so you would need to use a legitimate email address) and let me know whether you have a firm, serious committment to talking to the Washington Post.

If so, I'll forward a note to the WP contact who would then email you or not depending on whether the reporter feels the story is worth looking into.

Thanks Fredic, I appreciate that. I feel that while I have a statement to make, what I have to offer may add up to bits and pieces to fit with other bits and pieces from other people. If there isn't enough interest in me going public, I can at least be on standby until an investigation is being conducted. Or maybe a documentary on Gilchrist and the Minuteman Project.

I don't have an email address yet, other than Yahoo email. But I'll let you know when I have something arranged to accomodate your help. Thanks again.

Shall I get you two a room?

Are you jealous Ayatollah? Will you do anything besides taking my words out of context? Seeing myself as a simple guy, one of many ways to see myself, is not meant to indicate that I'm dull or stupid or shallow. Certainly not simple minded.

As for Gilchrist, I just caught him on KFI today but only started hearing it when he said something about the Green Party and not pledging allegiance to a political party, but to America. And I thought he said the name "Cliff" but I'm not sure.

My activity at the KFI event in Laguna Woods was only seen by people there. Not listeners at home or anyone else in district 48. As for right now, well before I posted this article here I guess but even after that, they didn't actually have to mention me on the air. And I meant it to be like that. I'm showing the campaign managers that they won't shut me up. As for Jim, I issued him a challenge. Reject white supremacy. Shouldn't be a problem, right? Denouce any help and support that any white supremacists and nationalists(or whatever they want to call themselves) would offer him. He didn't do that. He didn't even pretend to do that! Is there some reason why he can't?

Not that I'm completely out of this Minuteman stuff, looking at the whole picture really is alarming. This does edge on the extremism that John Campbell indicated, according to the sound bite of his voice I heard on KFI today. Especially from the behavior and mentality I've seen from participants in the campaign and, ah yes, SOS.

I quit SOS because of the hateful nature, finally making the decision to avoid being associated with would be flag burners. I disagreed with burning the Mexican flag, no less than 12 SOS members wanted to do it or were supportive of it.

I was Watch Out on the SOS board.

Here's some of the various people who AGREED with me that burning the Mexican flag is the wrong thing to do and is just plain wrong, people who agreed with me, at least vocally, in person: Chris Simcox, Lupe Moreno, Jim Gilchrist, Steve Eichler, Julio from the campaign(I forgot his last name), and others not in the campaign.

I will make it clear that me quitting SOS and the incident I had with the campaign(being kicked out and expected to keep quiet) are unrelated. But yes after the excitement of being a Minuteman wore off, there was a pattern of awakening experiences for me. Not too dramatic, not like warfare, but a lot of behavior. Psychology. Herd mentality.

And I've come out of this as a better critical thinker and more disciplined in thinking independently.

I made a type above. I said "Not that I'm completely out of this Minuteman stuff..."

I meant "Now that I'm completely out of this Minuteman stuff..."

Making it clear, I am OUT of the Minuteman stuff. I am NOT a Minuteman. I'm through with all that.

look at this 2 neo nazi website:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=251447

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=7054

Well... this is an interesting thread.

It's tough to walk the very, very thin line between immigration regulation and nativism. It just is.

I don't care to visit sites like those no matter what race they are being supported by. I don't understand your addiction to them either. Once was enough, way back when. So no, I won't look there.

And Watch out, Jammer, or whatever name you want this week ,(god, your like someone changing a hairdo every week and hoping that will change your life)
We should be getting psychiatric wages to read through all of your blathering on about yourself. "Now I am this, and now I am that", "But I was this, but then I got into that, and me, me me,...and I, I, I.."
We won't bill you, but please find another doctor. The SOS/MM/CCIR/ crisis clinic has done all it can for you.

What it all comes down to is that I've always been an independent thinker, which is even more reinforced right now. I work best when I'm not an official member of some established organization. That way I don't have anyone to answer to. I can say what I want as a human being, as well as an American citizen.

I've always been into activism in some way, whether through actual activism or on sort of standby due to doing other things. I was a member of the Class Action Club at Saddleback College, a place where I hold an AA degree with honors. I didn't just go there recently to look for new peers. I've always been there. We protested Bush. We protested the war. We discussed Nike sweatshops and Coca-Cola's labor violations. If I knew about Indymedia back then, I'd probably be posting here like anyone else here does.

I was always against the war in Iraq. Gilchrist is all for it. Does that mean I'm for it? Heck no! Yeah he got the people at the KFI event to cheer for that. Herd mentality here. And some people may not like this, I know Gilchrist won't, and maybe Jim Chase won't but I'm sure he'll be respectful of my views and not jump to conclusions, but I support the counter-recruitment efforts on school and college campuses because of the war in Iraq. Right now, under the Bush administration, is not the time to join the military.

You can pull whatever clever tactic you want AG, you can try to get people to doubt, you can try to get me to doubt myself, but I doubt it will work. I know exactly what I'm doing and I've got people who can personaly verify the process I've been through. I've got materials, video footage, experiences, etc that I can show people one on one in person. Anyone here who would see this would understand.

Instead of acting like you have me figured out, why don't you explain the paranoid, angry, and downright hateful behavior by the Gilchrist, SOS, and Minuteman participants? I've got footage, where's yours? I'm willing to share. I already have and I will continue to do so.

If I go to Glendale this Saturday, I'm not going there to take on SOS. I'm not trading sides. When it comes to people here against US immigration laws, again, I'm taking a step back and if anything, I'll observe. More specifically, when it comes to taking direct action, there's some thinking outside the box to consider first. But we as individuals can't solve all the world's problems(or even all the problems in the U.S., if thats all some Gilchrist/SOS people are concerned with). We can only do some and my main area of activism doesn't directly involve the border issue.

I can protest SOS because of their hateful nature. There's enough reason right there. But again, I'm probably not because I don't want to come off as a person who's chosen a clear side in the issue itself because I haven't. Believe me, I'm not an open borders person. I'm not all for erasing the border.

Now that I'm kind of "neutral" I guess on the issue of people here against US immigration laws, I can continue the activism I usually do without any surprised looks because I don't have to explain the stigma of being a Minuteman or an SOS member.

The two website links El Chivo linked here show how the Minuteman Project and Gilchrist attract racists and white supremacists. In the Gilchrist campaign, on the streets and right in the headquarters, there wasn't enough effort to keep these types of people and their nature out. That's how, thanks to MARY PARKER LEWIS and ELDON, we got at least four Stormfront types in the offices. At least two of them did campaign work. Looks like Gichrist already has some denouncing to do right there!!

One did telephone work. If you live in district 48 of California, you could have gotten a phone call from a white nationalist asking for your vote for Gilchrist.

Remember the Sacramento rally? I followed a skinhead looking guy around who was passing out RACIST flyers promoting the National Alliance. I spoke to whoever he spoke to, explaining that he's not affiliated with us. I told Jim Gilchrist himself about this and he said something like "we decided to let that go." Perhaps to avoid drawing attention to it, maybe, I'm not jumping to conclusions. What happened was he then seemed immediately preoccupied with something else, which seemed like the case. Okay, let's say that really was the case. Even so, it still indicates that there wasn't enough effort to keep the presence of racism out of the rally at the capital in Sacramento. The only effort was me walking around talking to whoever that guy was talking to. I still couldn't get to everyone he spoke to. I could have used some help there!!

The fact is that the very idea of the Minuteman Project attracts these types of racists. I've seen it firsthand. I didn't see enough effort to keep them away. Was the lack of effort intentional? I'm not saying that. But there wasn't enough. I tried to help the Gilchrist campaign keep these types out, after we exposed the two. The managers wouldn't have it and I was kicked out by Mary Parker Lewis. She called me and said that I said that I was a "former Anarachist." Something that I have NEVER said going into the campaign. I'll explain the whole issue I have with Mary, stay tuned.

Please Jammer, the Nazis you were photographed with are YOUR friends.
You brought them to Laguna and you know them personally.
Who are you trying to fool?

what is your addiction to this site then? Well, your post is not favored in this site. why post? do u think u can change my our mind?

I'm not so sure that the Washington Post would care about an ex-SOSMM who wishes to describe the core hatred and the white supremacist ideologies since it'll probably be considered old news. Naming names and offering to quote some of the leaders of known racists might be worth while, but my impression is that a reporter taking an outline to his or her editor would toss it back and say, "So? Got anything new?"

These fake "illegal immigration" individuals form groups and then break them up, exchanging the same people back and forth, spinning off new fake groups which last for a while then break apart, and reform constantly. So covering the core racism of "anti-immigration" groups and individuals would almost certainly be considered old news.

The only thing that would make it fresh would be to name names and quote individuals, and to recount how discussions and secret votes were taken -- and discussions about how members of groups attempted to get the rest to stop or throttle white supremacist ideologies from being expressed in public and such.

The focus of any "mainstream" article covering the core racism of the pretend "anti-immigration" groups that form and break up and form again would have to focus on insider reports that are fresh, informative, and touch upon things that would interest readers.

Plodding, "more of the same" wouldn't be interesting and wouldn't draw editor interest, I would expect.

America is crammed packed with racist hate mongers on all sides, overlayed with homophobic hate, anti-woman hate, religious hate, and so many other venues of hatred that we're often called the "United Hates of Amerikkka." And because of that, going to the media with insider information about Gilchrist and all the rest would almost certainly not be worthy of any mainstream coverage.

Outside the mainstream, out here in the streets, the information is very useful because we need to know the names, faces, nick names, and activities of racists if they're to be opposed in the street.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

Well what do you mean "your mind" their chief?
Is there only one between the lot of you?
Truth is that this site has more than just you, your ideas, or this topic.

I am sure Cliff, er, Jammer can provide you with all of their names etc.
They are his friends!!!

Do I know you OC? Chances are, I probably do. So, who are you?

"Please Jammer, the Nazis you were photographed with are YOUR friends.
You brought them to Laguna and you know them personally.
Who are you trying to fool?"

I'll be more open about this than anyone would probably think.

The Nazis with the Nazi flags? Not my friends. I was photographed with a young teenager with an almost shaved head. I won't state his name, but he is someone I met at a Megadeth concert at the Grove in Anaheim. Let's call him "Person A." He has recently hinted at a threat to me on AIM internet messenger about a supposed 20 guys, so I won't identify him here. It was he, I, and one other who corresponded on the official Megadeth message board. We planned me meet up, I carpooled with a friend of Person A's, who as I understand is black and hispanic(correct me if there's a better term anyone prefers to hispanic).

After that, I got into SOS with a simple "the law is the law" mentality I guess you can say. I also stayed in contact with Person A and learn that he's into the German skinhead military Nazi whatever stuff. But he stated that he's not racist. And I didn't know a thing about Orange County skinheads or whatever, so I thought, alright, he's probably a youth who got out of that and is on a path to a better living.

I foolishly told him about the July 30th SOS rally at Laguna Beach and invited him. Just thought I'd increase the number of protesters by one more. So I brought Person A with me. He has the nearly shaved head, the iron crosses on his backpack, an American flag and a German flag pinned on his backpack.

I'm trying to remember my reasoning back then. I gave him a benefit of a doubt and assumed that okay, he's not a full on Skinhead or whatever. We protest for a while.

We stood at where the day labor site is, then most of us later crossed the street.

Later came the hardcore Neo-Nazis or whatever they call themselves with their flags. On the same side of the street as us. The first time I ever came across these people. It was like watching American History X in person. I walk through the group of them taking in the sights and sounds. There was some nervousness and curiosity. The whole event was an irresponsible mess. I was caught there without forethought so I just walked around and did whatever.

Mark hangs out with them, I assumed they were people he knew. I wasn't aware of SOS being seen as a formal group. I thought it was a well known website that announces events and everyone who wants to come can come. I had not heard of Indymedia or heard of the idea of photographs with speculation.

Also, I had not heard of or seen any SOS events before this. Not Baldwin Park or Home Depot or Alhambra. Never seen any photos of those.

I didn't know how racist these Nazis were but I heard one say something like "I want to lynch a f***ing n****r!" I didn't exchange any words with any of them. But when I had a sign that said "Be Legal or Be Gone," one saw it and repeated the sign with a smile.

And that's as far as that went. Through further online chat on AIM with Person A, he states that he's never been and isn't a "Nazi." Through his words, he seemed to say that he was to hang out with the hardcore Nazis or be afraid of some kind of consequence.

Upcoming to the next Laguna rally at Sept 24th, he wanted to go, but got a new job. Good relief there because I didn't think it would be a good idea to bring him! With his appearance and the reactions to it that can't be helped. He did tip me off that the Nazis may be back and I told Joe Turner and OldPreach. OP replied saying something like it will be taken care of and he knew about the possibility. If Person A was ready to go, I admit that I would have felt bad turning him away. We chatted online and I was okay with that. He's a human who may possibly grow out of this Nazi stuff completely.

September 24 came and went, that was that. As of now, I haven't chatted with Person A. He was mad at me for video taping the two white nationalists to expose them to the campaign, the ones that did campaign work. I don't chat with him anymore and that's fine. I wish him well and that he will be a good person. I've done what I could for him but it's his choice.

If there's anything anyone wants me to clarify, just ask.

civilizedcc: first of all, if I made you uncomfortable, I apologize to you and *edited* personally


civilizedcc: not necessarily the headquarters, but even that could be risky. it was not a witch hunt out of hatred. as a human I'm cool with you like we were before. just like i'm good friends with *edited* (but he means person A), we hang now and then. but when it comes to the public and their automatic reaction to anything resembling WN, we just have to play along and be nice and get the votes. its like customer service.

civilizedcc: if they benefited in any way from that and still are, then hey you did some help for them

civilizedcc: i'm not jewish, but they have a Jewish volunteer
civilizedcc: i know we're chatting in privacy, but still

civilizedcc: i came in with a certain background, but hardly political and never was part of an extreme movement. i haven't even read any Anarchy literature yet. i was going to, to gain an understanding of part of our opposition, the anarchist protest activists who oppose us

civilizedcc: i came in with a certain background, but hardly political and never was part of an extreme movement. i haven't even read any Anarchy literature yet. i was going to, to gain an understanding of part of our opposition, the anarchist protest activists who oppose us

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6269

He's claiming that I invited the Nazis. I invited one person who I suppose know the Nazis at some level. Not the Nazis themselves. When I saw it was foolish that I invited my then friend, "Person A," it was foolish because of his appearance and how people perceived him. If I knew about the Home Depot rally photos and other photos with people in National Vanguard shirts and had a better understanding of the scene, I wouldn't have brought him. I would have played dumb and never mentioned my interest in SOS. Infact, if I was wiser back in July, I may not have even showed up at the event in Laguna. But then again, who knew that we'd see skinheads standing around with Nazi flags?

for posting that! I had a chat with the person we caught in the Gilchrist campaign, had to speak on his level, and finally got him to understand the situation with the Laguna photos. Finally he agreed. I reported back to the campaign and Jim Gilchrist himself. I did that for the campaign to help them avoid a mess.

I also tried to reason with him incase of any angry feelings he has for me. I won't need a white nationalist with Nazi friends to be angry at me.

Put your spin on things, it won't work. I have nothing to hide.

As for the rest of the transcript, if you post it, I hope you realize that you'll be violating the person's privacy. I already got indirectly threatened with a supposed 20 guys. Do you want the same?

The transcript was never mean to be made public. I told the guy I wouldn't make the footage of him public and reasoned with him. It wasn't necessary. He was out of the campaign, done deal, so far. I showed the transcript to another campaign volunteer to show that the situation, as far as I knew at the time, was solved. My effort to solve a potentially campaign killing situation. Assuming the campaign even wanted to be clean of course.

The transcript was sent to another trusted person who made an honest mistake and posted it on a Yahoo group. I assume that's where you got it from.

http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/07/1756979.php

dozens of times. They are infiltrators, but it did not work this time. Childish games, yeah call the Washingon Post. lOL

Okay, if we're gonna violate privacy, fine. But a different spin is being put on this by Ayatollah and whoever OC is. I guess I'll have to show even more.

"civilizedcc: first of all, if I made you uncomfortable, I apologize to you and *edited* personally

civilizedcc: second of all, i was there as a Gilchrist campaign member. and the footage was only for the campaign managers for their awareness. it will not be made public in any way. you have my assurement"

Uncomfortable refers to video taping the two individuals, to show the campaign members for their awareness of the white nationalists. Assuming they really wanted to keep them out. I apologized out of basic courtesy and I'm not malicious. Also I had to play nice, I don't want Nazis angry at me personally.

"civilizedcc: if you're seen by a real media person or opposition(La Raza, Anarchists, etc) and photographed, the campaign is done"

Again, this was back when I was still in the campaign and making efforts for the campaign. This was the point I was trying to make to this guy.

"civilizedcc: no, he asked me to tape the council meeting and everything that happens
civilizedcc: Steve Eichler"

Hi Steve :-)

"civilizedcc: just video tape the meeting as it pertains to us and whatever happens"

"civilizedcc: i needed to show the campaign your faces to make them aware incase they see you again. believe me this is ugly, but we're trying to get votes here"

"civilizedcc: even if there's some kind of aspect that America can find agreeable about that, there's no time to convince all the voters in District 48, get them assured, THEN get them to vote for Gilchrist. the media and Gilchrist's opponents will constantly put their spin on it and hammer it until it sticks to the people's minds"

Me speaking on his level, his language. I couldn't convince this guy to turn away from his views because that would be like changing his life. My strategy was to get him to understand the photo situation, which should make sense to him and I.

"civilizedcc: look, it's mostly a matter of the possibility of you being photographed working with us."

"civilizedcc: I know, he told me, and still didn't grasp the seriousness of this issue"

Steve Eichler didn't grasp the seriousness of this issue.

"civilizedcc: this was me as a campaign member doing what I felt was needed for the security and image of the campaign, to continue getting photos and not scare voters away with a WN stigma.
also personally i don't agree with the WN stuff and i know the Gilchrist campaign doesn't want involvement with them. if they did, i would be out of there sooner anyways"

OC conveniently left that part out. :-)

"civilizedcc: but we were nice nonetheless, *edited* and I are still friends, that's a personal thing aside away from all this"

Nice as in July 30th, just basic social interaction. I was saying Person A and I were still friends because aside from all this, yes, I hung out with him a couple times. He once helped me pack supplies in boxes to send to Baton Rouge, Louisiana for the hurricane victims. (They were sent to Veterans for Peace because they were hitting spots not hit by the Red Cross.) As of this minute, I don't know exactly what views Person A has. He may be bouncing back and forth, I'm not sure. And right now, I'm not associated with Person A anymore.

"civilizedcc: i'm sorry to say, but as far as I understand, the average voter will turn away in immediate disgust, practically by instinct, if they even hear of a WN and Gilchrist connection"

"civilizedcc: and that could happen if someone mischeif photographs you and Gilchrist or other campaign members together, and compares with *edited* phtoos"

Again, trying to make him understand the situation.

"civilizedcc: yes, even i Orange County
civilizedcc: if someone like Campbell hears of this, all his speeches will practically be based on this
civilizedcc: as in smear campaign"

"civilizedcc: try to convince you're nice and mean well all you want, but even if there is some good aspect with your ideology, it's near impossible to explain that with 18 days left until election day"

Speaking theoretically, so? Is there a problem? Key words: even IF.

IF!!

Remember, I had to speak this guy's language to reason with him, to have him understand the situation, why he can't be at the Gilchrist offices anymore. And that isn't a deception, what I got him to understand is real. If he was photographed anywhere with Gilchrist, it would have been over. And besides that, yeah, I didn't want a campaign tainted with white nationalism. At this time, I still assumed the campaign was all American.

"civilizedcc: i could already do that with the footage i got. but know what? i'm not going to. this footage is going nowhere. to me it's just another mini DV cassette I can reuse again. but if it was someone else, like say a Telemundo spanish media photographer that was there, we'd be done by now"

Again, trying to avoid trouble and danger to myself. Apparently OC here doesn't care about my safety. Thanks. :-)

"civilizedcc: A telemundo person was not there, but there was several of them at our sacramento rally. a National Vanguard person was there passing out flyers. i had to assure everyone he's not with us"

"civilizedcc: now that they had a chance to take me seriously, which they seemed to not have, i'm done with that"

Eventually I was kicked out of the campaign by MARY PARKER LEWIS with some outrageous statements.

"civilizedcc: not necessarily the headquarters, but even that could be risky. it was not a witch hunt out of hatred. as a human I'm cool with you like we were before. just like i'm good friends with *edited*, we hang now and then. but when it comes to the public and their automatic reaction to anything resembling WN, we just have to play along and be nice and get the votes. its like customer service."

What I meant by "human" is how we're all human beings. What I mean't by "I'm cool with you" and being good friends with Person A is basically trying to get the guy to not send 20 Nazis to come after me. But I guess OC doesn't care about that or my safety. :-)
"hang now and then" refers to the boxes of supplies earlier mentioned and when I once took him to a kung fu club to meet other people and encouraging him online to get some work.

The parts about playing nice and customer service, trying to speak from his point of view, imagining what another white nationalist would say who is being a little more wiser about this, if they really want Gilchrist to win.

"civilizedcc: she actually said that I said that i was a former anarchist. which i never said and it's not true"

Refering to Mary Parker Lewis, who's name is already public.

"civilizedcc: i came in with a certain background, but hardly political and never was part of an extreme movement. i haven't even read any Anarchy literature yet. i was going to, to gain an understanding of part of our opposition, the anarchist protest activists who oppose us"

Because I know better than Gilchrist's apparent efforts in trying to alienate Anarchists and the Green Party as "domestic terrorists." I spoke with a member of the Green Party who confirmed my assumption that there are different kinds of Anarchists. There's probably some form of Anarchist in everyone. The ones we've seen protesting Gilchrist aren't necessarily reflective of all California Anarachists or Anarchists in general. I know better than to discriminate against them in general. But the quote up there should speak for itself anyways.

Okay, shoot me some more.

Looks like IntheOC let the cats out of the bag.

You put a spin on it, what was I to do

Do you really want me to be in danger? Looks like it.

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6269

Herd mentality here! Like I said, I didn't invite the Nazis. They were to SOS events and hung out way before I even started on July 30th, 2005. I invited one guy who I thought was out of all that stuff who I then saw knew them. He told me that he was afraid of trouble if he didn't hang with them.

We have your IM with the NAZI!! Stop while you are ahead!! Do you really want the whole IM to go public?

I was never meant to be public. It didn't have to be. I only showed it to the Gilchrist campaign, well I tried to, and Jim Chase who is investigating Gilchrist. The person in the conversation is irrelevant, it's the fact that it was a white nationalist. The WN is a young guy who may possibly change his life, why stigmatize him? I oppose white supremacy and "nationalism" or whatever, but I don't need to violate privacy in an aggressive manner.

I was never meant = It was never meant

Refering to the conversation, not me. I'm going public.

Cliff, get over it!!
The election is over!!
How much more attention do you want?
I am looking forward to seeing you in Glendale!!!!!!!

We have the whole IM on the record!!
Do you think the WN would like our PRIVACY violated???

I'm speaking to one right now. I don't know what they'd do but you could be lucky you're anonymous. I'm not all that worried, but I'm explaining that I didn't reveal the IM conversation. It was a mistake when Jim Chase posted it on a Yahoo group and I'm not upset at him for it. It was a mistake.

Cliff May, you say you oppse them.
Why are you speaking to one"right now"

To explain that I'm not the one violating privacy and possibly saving my ass from a supposed 20 Nazis.

Grow up!!!
Back pedal on YOU ratting them out!!!
C U in Glendale!!!!

I emailed you asking you to delete private stuff. But that's okay, that would look weird. I'm okay, leave EVERYTHING here. It's fine.

for posting that! I had a chat with the person we caught in the Gilchrist campaign, had to speak on his level, and finally got him to understand the situation with the Laguna photos. Finally he agreed. I reported back to the campaign and Jim Gilchrist himself. I did that for the campaign to help them avoid a mess.

HAD A CHAT?? HE IS YOUR FRIEND
Becareful Indy, Cliff, MAY or may not rat all of you OUT!!!!!!!!

Just because I had a chat with him doesn't mean I'm a friend of his. I was speaking to him as a person to help him understand why his presence in the campaign was risky. And yeah I disagreed with a WN being in there because he was a WN. But I wasn't about to dispute him for being a WN, that would be impossible. At least the photograph situation is where he and I saw eye to eye so it's really not me being sneaky.

civilizedcc: but we were nice nonetheless, *edited* and I are still friends, that's a personal thing aside away from all this

Nice as in we exchanged words at Laguna Beach on July 30th. And choice of words to soften the blow of video taping them, so he's not angry. And assuring him the footage won't be public. He's requested that I burn the tape.

The conversation is dated, Person A and I don't converse anymore.

umm, last we heard u 2 are best buds!!!
You brought him to Laguna

Person A, yes. But not the WN from Stormfront who was in Gilchrist's campaign. I still don't have Person A figured out but he was mad at me and I don't converse with him anymore.

I interacted with him because he's a person. I tried to keep it unrelated to SOS or whatever. He's young and he could change. So? He specifically said he's not a Nazi.

person A is the shaved head kid u hang with.....
Cliff, do we really need to post the Entire Im you had with your NAZI friends?
move on.org

"That is hilarious! So, it would be under 'High Drama' or something?

I actually kind of feel for Cliff. He is finding things he dislikes in EVERY group he gets with. I tried to explain that when the whole flag burning thread was going.

EVERYTHING has a little stink to it. I have my disagreements with many in this 'movement', all the way to the top. These in some cases, MAJOR disagreements will not stop me from adding my support to the over all cause. Why? Perhaps it is age and experience telling me that differences, and sometimes big ones, are just unavoidable. This is something that Cliff does not have yet, age OR experience. I am sure that someday he will realize that he is over reacting. It is most unfortunate that he things going to indy to ' out ' people is the way to go. It is not. The people there are some of the most hate filled hypocrites that I have EVER come accross."

I'm not in a group right now. I didn't trade sides. I simply won't associate with involvement with White Nationalists(Gilchrist campaign) or paranoid hateful behavior and herd mentality(SOS).

I have footage of a Lake Forest rally with such hateful behavior on it. About 55 minutes of the footage. Old Preach was there and I have video tape of him yelling at the Micah's Way people telling them to repent and acting like an ass accusing of "skimming 2 bucks off the dollar" or some crap like that. I was there video taping the whole picture, including you guys. I did that to bring it to the campaign to show the behavior. Behavior complete with displaying Gilchrist signs. Can you imagine Steve Young's people doing that crap?

Like I said, I'm not switching sides. I'm not on a side. But you can bet I oppose the HATEFUL nature of SOS. And being a former member, I have plenty of credibility here.

Cliff, we MAY or MAY not have the photos!!
See you saturday buddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While we're on a tell-all rampage here, I was at an SOS outreach effort at Angels Stadium once.

I told Old Preach about Person A, someone who perhaps used to be into the white supremacy stuff. But apparently is reformed and grew out of it. I figured if Person A kept getting stimiulated by non-racist activity, he'll stay non-racist and drop the whole German supremacist thing. Who knows.

Old Preach said there shouldn't be a problem with him being in SOS. I was like "okay" but didn't really agree as long as Person A kept looking like a skinhead.

When joking about posting o Stormfront, Old Preach admitted to posting on there before.

At the Lake Forest rally, Preach's son noticed the hateful behavior going on and took note of it. You could learn something from the kid. But don't bring the kids to the Lake Forest spot anymore. Spillz was physically assaulted there a later day.

SOS got one of their "Deport Illegals" banners from the Nazis, paid for and given.

So basically your main goal was to make us feel so uncomfortable that we decide to leave?
civilizedcc: NO!!!
civilizedcc: just video tape the meeting as it pertains to us and whatever happens

civilizedcc: I know we hung out before, but for the campaign's sake

That's exactly why I was video taping. A couple of white nationalists showed up, and I video taped. It was serious. And I brought the footage to the campaign offices right after(where Eldon tried to shut me up).

civilizedcc: I know we hung out before, but for the campaign's sake

Refering again to July 30th, at the SOS Laguna rally. And to stay on his good side in order to convince him that going to the campaign offices is a bad idea.

And that was the only day I ever hung out with him, the one who did campaign work. After the rally, riding to a bar in Spillz's vehicle with Person A and another individual. Spillz and I didn't know the whole story behind the two white nationalists. Does that make us Nazi collaborators? Nope. I have nothing to hide. I'm letting it all out.

Your turn.

SPILLZ IS NOTHING BUT A COCONUT
Please, who in the hell does he think he is???

I really do not have much to add. I do not agree with everything that went down at Lake forest. Again, so what? People have freedom. You can just walk away from what you do not like, just like I DID.

I stand by my preaching to Micahs way, and do think that they are in it for the money. I have been around the block Cliff with Religious hypocrites, can you say the same? I do not think so.

As far as you being a 'member', there is no membership. We post on a discussion board, and go do things, You did that for a month, and then did other things with Gilchrist for a month or 2. You would think you were doing things for years the way you talk. You really need to calm down.

I told you YOUR friend could feel the way he does and still do things becuzz you insisted that he just did not like his heritage being stepped on, just like the Razi's do not. Big woop.

I have nada to hide, and half a lifetime of other activities that I have done in public. Go ahead, take more shots on someone that has done zero. Is that really you ? It did not seem like it the time we spoke on the phone.

You really want all this stuff here in front of all these hate filled hypocrites? If so, the question is, why ? Name one person on indy that is from the Aztlan nut crowd that you want to know all this. If you have something so big, just name names and call the biggest media you can. From where I sit, you saw a couple of white seps show up, get kicked out, and that was about it. Something else we should know ? You are not even really going into details, and seem more like you are just upset at getting wrongly accuse or something.

Peace out y'all.

The two white nationalists were not kicked out of the campaign right away. Me and another individual had to keep bringing it up to them. We argued with Eldon who wouldn't answer questions. Finally I spoke with Steve Eichler in the phone. Then Mary Parker Lewis called me saying I was a former anarchist trying to cause trouble, saying she spoke to the WN's dad and all that crap, basically defending him. Finally I spoke with Jim Gilchrist himself on the phone who said he'll be wary of new faces. All of that had to be done.

Finally, I issued Jim a challenge he couldn't answer. Reject white supremacy on KFI. He didn't do it. It all comes down to that.

Jesus Cliff!!! Go away move on..
Who cares what you and Sillzzz did?
He is a sellout!!!

At least you give a bit of detail now, but the bottom line is, it sounds like it took a bit of time...not a big thing. One person talking trash like she did is not that huge either.

Also, you tellin Jim what to do on the radio is quite a stretch ! Way out of line. That guy broke his booty on the border like you would not believe. You greatly disrespect him, kind of like you just did to me. This all speaks for itself. Personall, I am done.

I issued Jim a polite challenge that shouldn't be a problem. I'd publicly reject white supremacy any day of the week. Why wouldn't Jim? Hmmmm...

Would you OP?

The Real OC

White nationalists, anarchists, socialists, nativists, big media sensationalism, young people, old people, anti-semitism, anger, rage, born again Christians, born again Aztecs, racists, cops going to court over flashlights, old men with undocumented wives running over demonstrators defending the undocumented, neocon political consultants, right wing infighting, nazis, leaders with assualt charges, confederate battle flags, bald guys with knives. This is better than television. It's like a video game.

Just a suggestion to you all. Don't be saving your sensitive chats, or even having them on public servers. The DOJ can probably wiretap those conversations.

IMNSHO, people can change. So, let's not post that transcript involving the kid. Jammer's pretty much fessed up to his errors, and in public no less.

I'm hiding nothing.

Errors in terms of being involved with SOS and giving in to the paranoia, yes. Error as in getting excited about going to the border to meet Minuteman people, without seeing the whole picture? Yes.

Error as in being a Nazi collaborator? Nope. I've never done that. Person A was someone I interacted with as a person. Someone who I supposed could change. Someone who I think is 22 last time I checked. Maybe he was borderline, I'm not sure. But also someone who was angry on his friend's behalf and told me to watch my back for a supposed 20 guys. I'm done with interacting with him.

On July 30th, I spoke to that Baldy guy and didn't even know who he was. He said "I'm not a racist" but also took his hat off to show me his shaved head. I didn't know what to think of that. This was way before the Nazis came with their flags. I actually have that guy my contact card. I hope he lost it. I had no idea he was a guy who posts on Stormfront calling opposition "browns." If you want a Nazi collaborator, there's your guy.

I haven't even typed up my entire STATEMENT yet. This may add up to a book, or at least a chapter. Anyone out there doing an expose documentary on Gilchrist and SOS? Sign me up, I'll be the first in line.

Jim Gilchrist is caught even more red handed now.

I spoke again to the WN that was caught in the Gilchrist campaign online, one of the two, the one who requested that I burn a video tape. But before I continue, let’s call that person Person B. The second one, who did phone work, can be Person C, although I don’t need to mention that person really.

Person B, if you’re reading this, I’m not doing that copy-paste AIM conversation crap again. No more emailing saved windows to people I seek counsel with. Mistakes happen, it won’t again. You can message me if you have anything to say. But I’m gonna say something you told me, just one thing, just understand. This is between me and Jim Gilchrist and his dishonesty towards me personally. Look at it this way, Jim tried to hide you. And he lied to me on the phone. I’m not trying to save my ass from “20 Nazis” right now. I’m speaking to you seriously, person to person. You don’t need this mess!



Person B told me that Jim Gilchrist knew who he and the other were, white nationalists. Jim just asked them to not post anything about it on Stormfront.



JIM GILCHRIST IS NOW CAUGHT RED-HANDED

Jim knew they were WN’s. He didn’t tell me that on the phone. He played dumb and pretended to not know. He said he’d be wary of new faces. Jim knew who they were and took them in. While he and his supporters complain about people aiding and abetting people who are here against US immigration laws, he does this very thing to white nationalists right in his campaign offices. Took them in and tried to keep quiet about it.

Person B, do you want to live and work hidden? I’m now speaking to Persons A, B, and C. You three are still young. You don’t need the hate and paranoia. You can solve problems with a clearer mind without the hate. Let it go. You don’t need Stormfront. You can totally flourish with great lives. You still have the chance. You can do whatever you want with your personal lives still. Career paths, a sense of meaning, happiness, you name it. I’d help guide you, but I’m sure things are very awkward between me and the three of you. And I’m going through quite a bit myself, obviously. Let it go and live.

Now I’m gonna speak to you Jim Gilchrist. You got neck deep in all this and how old are you? If not exposed, you could be a doorway for Nazism in America to burst through and taint what America could become. Even to degrees you may not be aware of. This must not happen. If America is to be saved by some type of “reconquista” or “jihad” takeover, it must not be like this. We can do better than that.

So what are you gonna do now Jim Gilchrist? I got you really good now. Is Mary Parker Lewis gonna call me on the phone and call me a “former Anarchist?” Is Steve Eichler gonna discipline me? Huh? Is KFI gonna make me leave their next event? Are John and Ken gonna keep ignoring the emails I send them? Am I gonna be mentioned in the next CCIR newsletter? Is Eldon gonna call the police on me? Huh? Is the American Independent party gonna segregate me? Are you gonna call me a domestic terrorist? Is SOS gonna call me a goon? Are you gonna accuse me of dereliction of the rule of law? Is Andy Ramirez gonna scam money from me? Is Chris Simcox gonna make me pay $50 for a background check? Are your Rescue Ranch people gonna try to murder me? Yeah you know what I’m talking about Jim. You know.

I may look like I’m being open and exposed here, but that’s nothing compared to what you, Mr. Gilchrist, will surely go through in the public. Have fun with that Jim!

> Also, I had not heard of or seen any SOS events
> before this. Not Baldwin Park or Home Depot or
> Alhambra. Never seen any photos of those.

Balkdwin Park was where I learned what the SOSMM / National Vanguard et al. people were all about. I walked and bicycled past the racsists and took photographs, noting that not a one of them were anything but white.

What struck me early on was how pathetic the racists were standing there dejectedly as the community driving past gave them the finger.

Later on, of course, I got to observe the rascists screaming amusingly bizaree things like, "Go home!" to anyone with brown skin then see their reaction when American citizens informed them that they were in fact already there; that the racists are the ones that came into their city to spew their hate.

As I recall, they left their Nazi and Confederate flags at home for Baldwin Park though I seem to recall reading a request by one of the SOSMM/NV/NA/Whatever individuals asking people not to bring their Nazi or other white supremacist markings and literature.

That was _after_ the Southern Poverty Law Center published an article containing interviews of Nazis who were members of SOSMM so there was already good exposure oif who these people were and what they stood for.

So why didn't you know in advance? It was in the news -- these people's coire ideologies were covered in Arizona mainstream and even picked up in California. I can't see how anybody could have missed knowing before Baldwin Park who these people were and what they actually stood for.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

There was another madman standing on the street corner trying to get everyones attention yesterday.

OK, lets make it official:

Spotlights on!
and....roll 'em

In..TRO Ducing......

JAAAMMERRRRRR!!!!!!!!

(Huge applause follows)

Please tell us allLLLLLLLLL about yourself......and don't be shy. Your many fans and sympathizers are eagerly awaiting every juicy morsel.
oh, and gaze upon your audience sir. They may want autographs after

I wonder how persons A & B would feel if they knew just exactly how many people you sent your IM to?
And to whom? The MMP?
Even though yous stated is was a private message.

And how are you any different AG? You're up here quibbling and fighting and making a public show of yourself too. I'm the same way. So what?

At least Jammer's dishing interesting dirt. That Gilchrist and his consultant knew about the nazis affiliations was news to me. Implicit in that is that his consultant, and by extension, all her clients, are going to be somewhat aware of the concrete political support that fascists might give to their clients. She might look at a candidate and think: this one's like Mike, so maybe we can drum up a few volunteers in the loony right wing.

I guess since Jammer was posting on SOS as WATCHOUT, that should have been our first clue to watchout for him!!

It's all a bunch of inuendo that has authentication on it's Christmas list. And look who is supposedly going to be the impeachable witnesses in the trial. Someone above reproach? Or a member of a troup shunned by the parties on both sides and longing for some sort of validation or recognition?
No....this is just a wannabe celebrity with a popularity complex.

And what NEW dirt are you referring to? the nazi/wn sort of association is one nearly all of Gilchrist's opponents have been trying to cloak him with for the better part of a year. Or is the dirt you're referring to the description of the ones engaged in that attempt at present?

Ayatollah, you've run out of replies. That much is obvious. You'll probably apologize and thank me one day.

I only sent the transcript of the conversation to one person, Jim Chase. He made the mistake of posting it on a Yahoo group. Maybe three of them, he refered me to three of them. It was an honest mistake and I understand.

Believe me I'm not doing this to be famous. I'm not the one who posted my name on here. Obviously it was someone who knows who I am, someone who I probably interacted with in person who is now mad at me for exposing Jim Gilchrist for the liar he is. But whatever. I already figured it would happen. When I was at the KFI event, I already knew the campaign knew my name. I had two choices in speaking out:

Choice 1: Speak out on what I need to say. Expose Jim for who he is. My name will probably be out there, oh well. That wouldn't be as bad as perhaps I thought it was.

Choice 2: Keep quiet like Jim's managers would love for me to do. Never speak out. Keep all this hidden and probably regret it. All just to keep my name private, which still isn't guaranteed anyways.

Well you know me and my no-brainers. I choose...
Choice #1!!!

Hey Jim, care to debate me on KFI? :-)

Someone posted this:

"I met Watchout and the first time I talked to him I knew he was a "plant" and even warned a few people in the Gilchirst camp to keep him at arms length.. they didn't believe me and now they have a restraining order on him because of the threats he left on Jim's phone.

Besides from what he talked about his life it sure was a big jump from being an ultra liberal to an anarchists to someone that "was" concerned about illegal immigration. Everytime I heard him talking to someone in the office he was always asking leading questions, border line racist comments.. like he was baiting a hook and waiting for someone to bite.

I told Howie and a few others about him and they ignored be, I tried to let them kow that NO one just wakes up one day from being of the anarchist mindset and does a 180 degree turn. Oh well you live and learn."

A restraining order on me! Wow, I'm honored! Funny, I was never served a restraining order in person.

I didn't leave threats on Jim's phone, EVER. The first time I left messages on there, I was trying to get past his managers and reach Jim himself concerning the matter of the white nationalists. Finally I spoke to him on the phone and supposedly reached an understanding with him. Of course, now we all know that he knew who they were all along.

The second time was issuing the challenge to go on KFI and reject white supremacy, publicly. He didn't do that of course. :-)

I wouldn't call myself an ultra liberal and I have never been an Anarchist in my life.

I asked questions, so? If I'm involved in something and have questions, I want answers. If nothing bad is going on, what's the problem? Let that be a lesson to me about politics.

Borderline racist comments? When? There were times when me and others would crack tongue in cheek jokes in a car ride somewhere, calling the campaign van the "klan van." Harmless joking if that is what's being refered to.

I never had an Anarchist mindset, if there is a definite definition for that. Throughout this whole experience from July 30th to today, yeah I learned a lot, but a 180 turn was no involved.

That's kind of amusing, too. After the fact anyone who was part of a group who then exposes its faults and hidden agenda suddenly becomes a "plant" that others who want the information to remain secret "just knew was a plant." The just never told anyone until after the fact.

Funny how the conspiracy widens and eventually encompases everyone -- not just the SOSMM crew but every conspiracy-minded group. Dissent is considered an FBI agitation plot or -- if it's a Christian cult based group -- a Satanic agitation plot.

It's kind of amusing to see just how pathetic the SOSMM et al. crew is. No offense since you were one of them for so long, J.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

"Believe me I'm not doing this to be famous. I'm not the one who posted my name on here."
------------------------------------
The memory is the second thing to go Jammer:
------------------------------------
I used to post on Indymedia as "Minuteman CC" or "CC".
Sorry, to clarify, I used to post as "Cliff," "CC," and "SOS person." I'm Cliff and I'll post as Jammer CC now, my Adbusting name.
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Ayatollah, you've run out of replies. That much is obvious. You'll probably apologize and thank me one day."
---------------------------
Yeah, right....like the old Animal House initiation
(Whack!)
Thank you sir, may I have another?

I'm talking about my full name, duh

Jammer probably brought one of them but the Nazi were already embeded with SOS from the start. You can see the archieves from this website. It was mostly Duane's posting the pictures from the first Baldwin Park to the latest Laguna Beach rally. SOS never try to tell them to go away.

Here's an article I found about Tom Metzger, the US Border Patrol projects from the early 80s he organized, and a lot of gossip about the "White Nationalist" movement in general. One reason why the MMP border actions resonate with the fascists is because the fascists did them decades ago.

It's insider information. Lots of dirt is dished out.

The one I brought to Laguna on July 30th is Person A. He knows Persons B and C, which I didn't know and never met or seen until that day. I was thrown into all of this and wasn't the wiser on who to avoid. And I didn't do my research on SOS before participating. Let that be a lesson to me.

As for how I first came across Person A, again, it was the Megadeth concert. I came across Person A's friend on the Megadeth message board, interacted on AIM, then came across Person A. We met at the concert in Anaheim. Person A and I also met Dave Mustaine himself in a video shoot for "Of Mice And Men". One of the few times I hung out with him in person. Outside all the SOS and the racial stuff we spoke about(he expressed effort to be likeable to all races in general and made efforts to be friendly with an asian buddy from a kung fu class), he was alright to hang out with. It doesn't make me a Nazi collaborator. Maybe I'm too nice, I dunno. Like I said, as a person, I was cool with him. Just as a person. As a white supremacist, well he never specifically said he was one. I think he's probably confused with his Nazi friends. He said that he was expected to hang with them on July 30th, and was afraid of trouble if he doesn't. What else can I do for him?

Any more questions?

> That Gilchrist and his consultant knew about
> the nazis affiliations was news to me.

Wasn't Gilchrist posting to the SOSMM discussion forums asking people not to bring their Nazi flags and other Nazi literature? It seems to me that Gilchrist either asked or one of his folloers asked, and if I recall correctly, another of his followers stated in the public forums that it was okay that the Nazis were members provided they didn't bring out their Nazi symbols and literature.

It seems to me that we've seen message postings confirming that Gilchrist was well aware that there's known white supremacists among the SOSMM membersahip though I could be mistaken; it could be that it was only fellow SOSMM members discussing it and not Gilchrist personally.

I really need to gather all the discussions that we've had, all the photographic evidence, and update the Dark Wind web site so that it's all in one place. That would make checking back when a claim comes up a lot easier.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

If anyone meets Gilchrist in person, ask him about the Stormfront white nationalists in his campaign. Ask him to reject white supremacy on the next radio show he goes on. Ask him anything you want. Be sure to post his reponses here. Take note of what he says, how he says it, the tone of his voice, his body language, are there any campaign managers nearby, etc. See if you can get someone to video tape it.

If you come across any of his supporters, talk to them about this. I will be doing this too.

http://www.firejerrylewis.com/rallydec13.htm

Here's a place where it was announced by Zanna Lucca that Jim Gilchrist will be there. I know my presence will cause a stir right away and I'll be seen as confrontational. That could affect my perceived credibility as someone who is speaking out and exposing Gilchrist as a liar. But I will reach out to his volunteers and present what I know, one person at a time if I have to.

What I mean is that I won't be at that Fire Jerry Lewis rally. I'm sure they would take pictures of me and call me a goon or whatever. I was already banned from Lucca's online Yahoo group for speaking out about Gilchrist. Gee, that was strange. No explanation. I'm not coming to conclusions on that one of course.

And for Gilchrist's managers, his so-called security detail or whatever they call themselves, that wannabe conservative Tim Beuller who said it's okay to kill a person in chaotic protest situations, whoever, no I will not go to Gilchrist's house to do anything. Gilchrist told me about a flyer posted at his house with a photo of him and Fidel Castro. I since looked at www.iheartgilchrist.com again and that flyer is a PDF file you can get there, a humorous take on a quote from Gilchrist a while back about being a left wing wacko. So if they're reading this, no I have no interest in visiting his neighborhood. I'm not that stupid and I'm not a stalker. You know me Jim, enough to know that. So there, just to make that clear.

You are obsessed with Gilchrist and you are seeing ghosts in everything he does and says. That's what obsessed people do. They extrapolate from one crumb of rumor or inuendo in an attempt to engage others in their personal vendetta hell.
Your charges have not been substantiated in the slightest. Your "witnesses" or more appropriately described, witlesses are in the same frame of mind and fail the propriety test, and as such, are only taken seriously by the likes of people who buy into conpiracy theories and dwell on them to infinity.
Keep this up and you'll be the next Fried Rice here

JAMES CHASE, Border Watch Federation:

"California Border Watch no longer supports Minuteman Project (James Gilchrist), Minuteman Civil Defense Corps (Chris Simcox), Mountain Minutemen (Robert Crooks), AZ Border Watch (David Heppler), or Friends of the Border Patrol (Andy Ramirez). You cannot work with them and us."

BorderWatch.us/Border Watch Federation-BWF/California Border-CBW does not work with groups that allow racists, separatists, KKK, or are just in it for the money, the fame, or being a string puppet to gain favor with Washington DC . . . ."

Further, Chase said, "Now Mary (Gilchrist for Congress campaign manager, Mary Parker Lewis) is even allowing the Nazi party into the campaign . . . ."

So that makes Chase "obsessed," too, and I guess he "fails the propriety test" right along with Jammer, huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuteman_Project#Renunciation_by_Minuteman_Leader_James_Chase

Sounds like they both may have been dipping into the same crock all right.
The Nazi party? do we have an admission or a membership roster that shows these folks as active participants?
Do we have actual evidence the Gilchrist has been a member of the NA or WN party or group that will survive the scrutiny of challenge.
Who gives a damn what Chase says. Look what he's doing. Isolating himself from everyone. Setting rules that make him and his "followers" an island unto themselves, to the exclusion of any in dissent. Sound a little like Reverend Jim Jones yet?
His stated motives, past contributions notwithstanding; He may have stepped into obsessive-ville too. It can happen to the best of us. But anyone with a toehold still in reality should require the hard evidence before joining his church and waiting in line for your communal cool-aid.
And everyone relying on the products from the crock 'o shit that is being offered as legal tender may have a hard time cleaning it off thier hands later.

Just make yourself believe. If that's what makes you feel more comfortable. When some kids find out there's no Santa Claus, some try hard to make themselves believe, even though they know the truth.

Santa is in ones' mind, so when one doesn't believe in Santa it is likely they have lost theirs. My Christmas will be complete with a gift from Santa, and the non believers will have....well,.... their Crocks I guess.

Jim Gilchrist will have a gift from Santa under the tree on Christmas morning, while the non believers wake up to Crock-a-doodle-doo

And all the Minutemen will enjoy their gift from Santa in the morning, while the non believers stay up all night with their crock habits.

While you bumped this up again, I'll go over some thoughts on going public.

Does anyone know how often the press goes down to the Jacumba gap, where the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps are stationed? Maybe I'll pay that place another visitor afterall, maybe meet some press, and do some reaching out :-)

Jim Gilchrist is just gonna have to address the issue of white nationalists in his campaign in the public. He will have to respond to the challenge to reject white supremacy. I didn't get any clear answers from him or his managers. There's more than what they told me. More that simply, "they're gone." Yeah, because of me and another person or two. I don't see any other way. This will be done in the public. Count on it.

I've gotten the expected flack from diehead Gilchrist supporters. I'm wondering about some of them. Now, I'm not coming to conclusions here. Belive me, I'm being thorough, you know that. But I wonder, how many are in denial to stay in a comfort zone. How many know about a presence of white racists behind the scenes and are okay with it. And how many don't know, but wouldn't care anyways? Hmmmmm.

Okay, not to bump this post up yet again, but I came across something interesting on the Southern Poverty Law Center's website. It's on their "In Their Own Words" webpage:

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=174

""[Even] beyond immigration, legal or illegal, the very numbers of non-Whites already here, and their high birth rate, are enough to plunge North America into a banana republic status within two decades or less. ... [After America is split up into racial mini-states, if] an area like Florida wanted to accept the dregs of the Caribbean, let them, with the understanding that the second this mud flood oozed into the sovereign state of Georgia, it would be 'lock and load' time."

— WHITE ARYAN RESISTANCE"

Interesting that in the last CCIR meeting back in October, someone asked how long is this country gonna last(I suppose from illegal immigration or whatever else the person was refering to). It was a question for Tan Nguyen, but Jim Gilchrist politely asked to take that question. And as I recall, he said 10 to 20 years.

I'm not coming to a conclusion here. But I've seen how information and encouragement are passed around person to people through key words such as "anchor babies," "illegals," "goons," etc.

I'm wondering where the passing of the words "10 to 20 years" or "20 years," refering to the idea of how long America will last until immigration against US immigration laws will supposedly wreck the the USA, came from. Where it originated. Was it from a research study? Estimations? Where did Jim Gilchrist himself first came across this, who did he hear it from? As I recall, I think he did say "I figure," as if it was his estimation. Estimation from what information? From who?

Well, like I said I'm not coming to any conclusions on this one. But if anyone reading this ever gets to meet Jim himself, ask him about this. And see what he says. See how he says it, how long until he seems to remember, if his answer seems to be trained or if he's putting the answers together on the spot.

If anyone from Gilchrist's campaign is reading this, hey you know this has to be done in the public.

More and more I feel comfortable with Indymedia and I appreciate being able to post information here. There's still a community/charity farm in Irvine I want to take photos of and report on here, to show that there are farms like this around still. To offer hope to anyone fighting for the urban farm in L.A., the one Ralph Horowitz is trying to destroy for a warehouse.

But to not appear to be bargaining with Gilchrist's direct opposition(I'm alone in my reasons for going public), I don't think I have much more to offer. For now at least. I'll offer everything I have to the Southern Poverty Law Center and I'm still up for anyone from the the media/press(L.A. Times, OC Register, OC Weekly, any college newspapers, NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, even Univision). Not sure how much interest there would be in what I have, but I can be on standby incase there's a more comprehensive investigation of Gilchrist and the Minuteman leaders and participants. Maybe a Dateline NBC special? :-)

The real linkage is a border patrol project that Tom Metzger tried to put together with the then main dude of the KKK (or one of the many KKKs). Metzger was a Klansman at the time too.

This was at the California/Mexico border, back in 1977 through, I think the early 80s. They basically did what all the subsequent volunteer wannabe Mexican-snipers are doing.

Back in the 80s, they were doing that kind of thing too, and gloating about it. It was like adolescent fantasy of training for race war. That's why so damned many nazi fascists keep showing up to these MMP and anti-immigrant things.

I didn't mean to say the words "20 years" was the link, but I found it interesting and I'm wondering what repeated sets of words may have crossed over from white racist groups to people involved in the MMP, CCIR, etc.

Like I said before, the case of National Alliance flyers being passed around at MMP happenings, is exactly what I encountered(and interfered with, hahaha) at the rally at Sacramento.

If anyone gets to meet Jim Gilchrist, ask him about that as well, the flyers at the Sacramento rally. The flyer has a graphic of North America with Mexico shaded in red with arrows pointing into the United States, shaded in the same red. Same idea with a sign held by two guys pictured on a SPLC webpage. One of the guys, and his sign, is still to this day shown on the Minuteman Project website.

I guess I shoulda been reading SPLC a long time ago.

http://www.splcenter.org/center/splcreport/article.jsp?aid=150

Look at the last photo on this page:
http://www.minutemanhq.com/project/photos/photos_2005apr02_rallies_3.html

Same guy, same sign, on the MMP website. Couldn't they at least make an effort to check all the images on the internet to avoid association by photo? To avoid confusion if they really are concerned with being non-racist?

Here's a photo from the SPLC website. For the caption it says:

"Two Minuteman Project volunteers, who described themselves as members of the neo-Nazi National Alliance, pose near the Mexican border with a handmade sign bearing an image identical to that on Alliance pamphlets and billboards.
(special)"

Just like the pamphlets that were distributed at Sacramento.

This photo is from the Minuteman website, the photo is still on there. Does this man look like the one on the right in the photo from SPLC? The sign sure looks like the same one!

I wonder if it could be the slightest bit possible that the National Alliance was the one who copied it from these pictured people or their groups. Or did you just selectively look for these photographs. I still have a picture of myself naked from when I was like 3 years old somewhere here. Do you think this makes me a pedophile?
I guess I shouldn't ask you

Some people are so wilfully blind to the facts.

The NA came up with that image ages ago.

Y'all got more lame excuses than a Holocaust denier.

The point I was hoping you would see is, that Crock boy here confines himself to a game of
"pin the tale on the honkey", and the blindfold has a hole in it for the weak minded.
Finding the truth in life is something you earn by flexing your brain, and reflecting on all the facts, not just the chosen ones.
The facts are that there are what you call racists on both sides of the migration issue, and like pawns on a chessboard they tend to cancel each other out. Then you concentrate on the real, and bigger players that cause the problems. Sitting around posting pictures of each others pawns is hardly the stuff change is made of, but rather the passions of those who also feel the need to psychoanalyze themselves on a discussion board. I can only be thankfull that the postings in that regard have finally shortened to a few sentences.

You just don't quit, do you Ayatollah? Like johnk said, that image is known to be created by NA. As for flexing my brain and checking the facts, of course I'm doing that. I'm stating everything that I know and going public with what I've seen. Such as two Stormfront white nationalists, at least two of them, have for a FACT done campaign work for Jim Gilchrist. But still, I'm not concluding that Jim Gilchrist is a Neo-Nazi sympathizer or even that he's struck a deal with white supremacist types. But I present to the world what I know and because of the treatment from the Gilchrist campaign, they will have to answer to the world. Count on it.

As for the treatment I recieved from the campaign, this isn't revenge for such treatment. I'm going public because I see no other way. I'd be happy if at some point, every news reporter Gilchrist and anyone associated with him will ask them about what I'm going public with. They want to come up with campaign strategy for "round 2"? Well there it is, no other way.

" I'd be happy if at some point, every news reporter Gilchrist and anyone associated with him will ask them about what I'm going public with."

I don't think the sentence structure there made sense. I'll correct myself before any grammar-nazis try to blow me off just because of that.

I'd be happy if at some point whenever Gilchrist and anyone associated with him are interviewed by the media/press, every reporter will ask them about what I'm going public with.