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by Albert Kada
Wednesday, Aug. 03, 2005 at 7:44 PM
davecom@io.com remote intelligence outpost in Texas
THE FINAL THEORY, Rethinking our Scientific Legacy was apparently a best selling book indicating less understanding of physics than I do. Mark Mcrutchen is the author, the promotions are online, and supposedly has had good reviews by unreliable sources of information. The promotions for the book are internet virus bait including a free first chapter. Guess what I found without reading the whole book? Bullshit maybe?
This classic example of a simple minded physicist trying to dispute me and Einstein cannot understand the simple concept of kinetic energy, (stored energy) existing as an energy field like a magnetic field.
In his attempt to prove that gravity, presumed to be caused by the existence of mass, needs an energy source, he lacks imagination. Gravity does do work, it creates pressure which creates heat and the next thing you know you have a volcano. Perhaps a large object like the earth pulls down on other matter because it is compressing itself in the center.
The website for the book has a tab on it called "scientific flaws" or something like that where he disputes what most people can accept about molecular and atomic physics.
Then he takes this shot in the dark with a bull turd.
The web site asks this question. "How can a fridge magnet cling against gravity endlessly without draining a power source?
This man is supposed to be a physicist and an author and he cannot or does not want to explain how it works. Please allow me to try.
A magnet has magnetic properties because energy was once applied to make it a magnet. This energy is stored in the magnet.
On a molecular level, the molecules or atoms that the magnet is made of arrange themselves into symmetric groups called domains. When most of these domains line up in the same direction you have a magnet with a north and south pole. It usually takes applied energy to get this done. Each domain is like a magnet and it takes energy to line them up in the same direction.
So where did the energy go? It is stored in the magnet in the form of a magnetic field that can be visualized with some powdered iron and a magnet. As long as the domains are lined up, the field will exist.
The field of a bar magnet would be shaped like a solid sphere if you held it up in your hand. The field itself would be quite large but stronger near the magnet. The field may extend forever if you never move the magnet, but the field weakens as you get further away because energy is still stored in the magnet and the field had to travel.
Now let us stick that bar magnet to a refrigerator. The field then concentrates itself into the metal door of the fridge rather than extending into eternity.
So you took some stored energy, kinetic energy in the form of a magnetic field, and you concentrated it into a small area inside of the metal of the refrigerator door and right next to the magnet. The result is that the magnet clings to the fridge. It has to because the domains at the north pole of the magnet want to stick to the south pole of itself. The energy field that pulls them toward each other runs through the metal door and back to the opposite pole. This creates a small molecular bond between the metal and magnet.
Perhaps gravity pulls down on the whole refrigerator including the magnet like it was one piece of material bonded together. This would explain how the magnet hangs on for so long without actually using up it's stored energy. The stored energy just changes places physically. It was stored in the magnet and the air. Now it is stored in the magnet and the metal door.
I guess if you take two fridge magnets and push them along the surface of the door with the like poles facing each other, at least one will fall off or move.
How does the magnet seem to defy gravity without an energy source? Because Kinetic energy that was stored in a large energy field is now concentrated in a small area where it temporarily becomes the force that holds the magnet to the door. When you pull it off the field expands again. Because we can observe the field we know that we are moving the field from the air to the door.
The web site also claims that a permanent magnet never loses it's magnetic properties which is incorrect. Most magnets can be demagnetized with a high tech tool called a hammer. When you beat on a magnet with a hammer the domains get all out of alignment again like before you magnetized it. Give me a permanent magnet and I will show you how to demagnetize it. It will take energy.
Would you waste your money or your time reading a book by a man who is going to redefine physics but cannot explain, much less prove how a refrigerator magnet works. It simply stores some of it's energy field in the metal door thus creating a weak molecular bond.
How would you run a controlled experiment to begin to validate the idea that gravity affects it like one object rather than two? Maybe it doesn't. It may be that the weight of the magnet trying to slide down the door is not enough to cause any friction necessary to weaken the magnet. Maybe gravity is pulling separately on the magnet and the fridge. This would validate his question about why the energy doesn't get used up.
What if you take a flat iron horizontal table and stand a bar magnet on it? Then use an instrument like a scale to measure how much force it takes to get the magnet to pull away from the table a small distance, about .1 inch or whatever is practical with your magnet. You will probably get a peak reading right before the two surfaces separate. Subtract the weight of the magnet from the peak reading. This would give you a measurement in a unit like inch-pounds of how much work it takes to remove the magnet from the top of the table.
Now put the same pole of the same magnet on the same spot of the same table, but on the bottom this time. Attach the scale and pull the magnet off.
If the latter peak reading is the same as the first peak reading minus the weight of the magnet then gravity is not pulling on the magnet. Gravity would be pulling on the table and the magnet as if they were welded together.
If the latter reading is less then gravity is helping you pull the magnet off the bottom of the table.
In actual practice, not all of the domains in the bar magnet will be lined up. These parts of the magnet may be effected by gravity separately from the rest of the magnet (according to my hypothesis) and the table. Because of this the latter reading will almost always be less. That is my guess before I perform the experiment. It is important to guess what will happen before you run an experiment.
If you could somehow construct a magnet that was 100 percent magnetized, (all the domains lined up in the same direction) then the readings may come out closer to the same.
By using atomic physics theories and math, you could estimate the number and the weight of the domains that are out of line. Then by considering this data also the readings may come out closer to being equal.
Would this experiment have a practical purpose? I think so. If it is shown that gravity pulls on two magnets as if they were one, then perhaps it has an aerospace application.
If you magnetized parts before assembling them mechanically, the fasteners might undergo a lot less stress during a rocket launch.
Heavy motorcycle parts might not fall off and break off as easily if one or more of the parts was magnetized.
If the insulation on the solid rocket booster of the space shuttle was a rubber magnet with insulating properties it might not fall apart like the Styrofoam did.
Docking orbiting spacecraft with magnetized poles might make the two crafts easier to navigate.
by Albert Kada editor of THE AMERICAN bLASPHEMER
remote intelligence outpost in Texas
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by Hex
Wednesday, Aug. 03, 2005 at 10:17 PM
> Gravity does do work, it creates pressure which creates heat and the next thing you know you have a volcano.
no the heat of magma is generated by radiation - the heat retained by the insulating layers of the earth's crust. Some of the heat is generated by friction of the earth's spin dragging against the earth's core held by the sun and moon's gravity but mostly by radiation.
> How does the magnet seem to defy gravity without an energy source? Because Kinetic energy that was stored in a large energy field is now concentrated in a small area where it temporarily becomes the force that holds the magnet to the door.
no, magnetic, kinetic and gravity are separate forms of energy - kinetic energy by defination cannot be stored staticly - you can use kinetic energy to do work and the result can be stored as pressure or height but it's gravity that is the source of energy in pressure being released or mass falling - a flywheel comes as close to "stored" kinetic energy as you can get but it violates the meaning of storage (which implies static) - a flywheel in motion isn't really kinetic energy but it's inertia (change in velocity) is.
Kinetic energy is not motion but *changes in motion* -
A flywheel just spinning (assuming no friction losses) requires or gives off no energy, but *speeding it up or slowing it does* DOES - the energy involved in doing so is kinetic..
and asking why gravity doesn't overcome a locally stronger magnetic attraction is like asking why the moon doesn't pull you off the face of the earth - the reason is simply that the local field has a stronger pull - but both are still there
.
> These parts of the magnet may be effected by gravity separately from the rest of the magnet (according to my hypothesis)
no gravity affects all mass - it's not a separate force, *magnetic energy doesn't affect all mass though - only mass which has magnetic properties*
You're confusing strength of force with type of force and static energy with dynamic (kinetic) energy.
Although this person has a poor understanding of physics your own understanding *isn't much better*.
I suggest you start with the basics before tackling magnetism as it's a deceptively complicated subject - study Newton's laws first to see how these forms of energy, while able to change states and interact are all separate. By failing to understand this you're allowing mere observation to blur them together then making up new realities to fit the observations.
Specifically study static v dynamic forms of energy, how kinetic energy is different from other more basic types of energy and how all forms of energy change to heat, exactly what heat is (kinetic energy) and where heat goes - you'll see the transformation of all other types of energy into heat then in seeing what becomes of heat understand how it recycles back into the starting point of all other types of energy again - this is the key to understanding physics..
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by Sheepdog
Wednesday, Aug. 03, 2005 at 10:34 PM
"The units for magnetic field strength are the weber/m2, called the tesla."
A man of no great importance.
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by Skeptic
Wednesday, Aug. 03, 2005 at 11:33 PM
No energy need be transferred or expended in holding a magnet to a refrigerator or even to the ceiling.
Work is done on an object only if the object is moved, in which case the amount of work done is equal to the product of the force exerted on the object and the distance over which the force acts. In the case of a stationary maget hanging on the fridge, the distance is zero, consequently the product force * distance is also zero, and the work involved is zero.
Work *is* done in lifting the magnet against the force of gravity and sticking it to the refrigerator- that work is stored in the form of gravitational potential energy. If the magnet falls off the fridge, this potential energy is converted to kinetic energy as the magnet accelerates downwards.
This is a concept which "free energy" enthusiasts messing about with permanent magnets consistently get wrong. Since it's so simple- this is an aspect of ordinary classical mechanics which should be covered in a junior high school science course- it's a testament to the failure of our educational system to produce basic scientific literacy.
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by Hex
Wednesday, Aug. 03, 2005 at 11:34 PM
Tesla is not a type of, or measurement of energy - magnetic energy (flux) is measured in Oersteds and magnetic induction is measured in Gauss
You need to study too Sheepdog
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by Hex
Wednesday, Aug. 03, 2005 at 11:42 PM
Re: kinetic energy as the magnet accelerates downwards
or more precisely as the inertial moment changes - in any vector
at least you have an understanding of basic physics..
it's a sad state of affairs to see how little people who consider themselves experimentors and inventors know about even basic science
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by Sheepdog
Wednesday, Aug. 03, 2005 at 11:46 PM
argue with a supplier. You're an idiot. http://www.technicoil.com/magnetism.html
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 12:01 AM
See there you go again - you take some silly website *selling magnets* and ignore academic resources, then when I merely remind of the units of measure - Oersteds and Gauss - you get huffy and call ME an idiot...
TESLA ENERGY DOES NOT EXIST
is that plain enough for you ?
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 12:07 AM
 oersted.gif, image/png, 117x157
Ørsted, Hans Christian. (1777-1851). Danish physicist, professor at the University of Copenhagen. Discovered that current flowing through a wire can deflect a magnetised compass needle, a phenomenon which inspired the development of electromagnetic theory.
In 1932 the name Ørsted (Oersted) was adopted for the *physical unit of magnetic field strength.*
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by Sheepdog
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 12:07 AM
Too much coffee again, Mr Whizzard? Your outlets in 115AC are the results of Tesla. So I guess you can say you're running on 'Tesla' energy right now, unless your power source is a battery or similar DC source.
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 12:18 AM
George Westinghouse
And Edison wanted to use DC - said AC was too dangerous
Again you need to STUDY Sheepdog
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 12:26 AM
 george_westinghouse.gif, image/png, 187x250
In 1886, Westinghouse and Stanley installed the first multiple-voltage AC power system in Great Barrington, Massachusetts. The network was driven by a hydropower generator that produced 500 volts AC. The voltage was stepped up to 3,000 volts for transmission, and then stepped back down to 100 volts to power electric lights. That same year, he formed the "Westinghouse Electric & Manufacturing Company", which was renamed the "Westinghouse Electric Corporation" in 1889.
Thirty more AC lighting systems were installed within a year, but the scheme was limited by the lack of an effective metering system and an AC electric motor. In 1888, Westinghouse and his engineer Oliver Shallenger developed a power meter, which they designed to look as much like a gas meter as possible. The same basic meter technology is still used today.
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by Sheepdog
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 12:30 AM
poor Tesla, he didn't realize what he was dealing with. Evil. Tesla on George Westinghouse ``George Westinghouse was, in my opinion, the only man on this globe who could take my alternating-current system under the circumstances then existing and win the battle against prejudice and money power. He was a pioneer of imposing stature, one of the world's true nobleman of whom America may well be proud and to whom humanity owes an immense debt of gratitude.''
Speech, Institute of Immigrant Welfare, Hotel Baltimore, New York, May 12, 1938, read in absentia
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 12:41 AM
"In 1886, Westinghouse (first AC power system)"
"1938, read in absentia (Tesla)"
52 years after Westinghouse installed the first AC power this claim was made...
That's a very nice time machine you have there Sheepdog - can I buy it from you ?
Pleeeese ?
the fact is Westinghouse developed the AC power we use today - Tesla DID NOT
all you can claim now is people and the patent office are lying to float your flake
you asked the question of who developed the AC power "in my outlets" - Westinghouse did
show me the patent that says otherwise
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by Sheepdog
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 12:48 AM
 tesla.jpg, image/jpeg, 270x374
thank you, Mr. Whizzard It is easy to generate AC electric power from rotating machines, but operating electric motors was another matter. It was Nikola Tesla who solved this problem by inventing the induction motor. http://www2.physics.umd.edu/~yskim/maga/tesla.html
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by Sheepdog
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 12:58 AM
Nikola Tesla developed polyphase alternating current system of generators, motors and transformers and held 40 basic U.S. patents on the system, which George Westinghouse bought, determined to supply America with the Tesla system. Edison did not want to lose his DC empire, and a bitter war ensued. This was the war of the currents between AC and DC. Tesla -Westinghouse ultimately emerged the victor because AC was a superior technology. It was a war won for the progress of both America and the world. Tesla introduced his motors and electrical systems in a classic paper, “A New System of Alternating Current Motors and Transformers” which he delivered before the American Institute of Electrical Engineers in 1888. One of the most impressed was the industrialist and inventor George Westinghouse. http://www.teslasociety.com/ac.htm
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 1:10 AM
the AC power in my outlets - Westinghouse
there are many different types of electric motors but the questions raised were units of measurement - Oersted, and developer of AC power - Westinghouse
Funny how everything you're WRONG about is silently dropped while new subjects pop up to replace them - did I say ANYTHING about electric motors ?
You stop arguing about what you're wrong about and CHANGE THE SUBJECT to something you can be right about
The only way I could be wrong in that context is if I said Tesla didn't invent anything -
But that's not what the disagreement was about - not what you called me IDIOT about - it was units of measurement of magnetic energy
Playing word games doesn't teach basic science and history - if it did you'd be quite the expert by now.
If you spent less time consuming flake shit and playing games and more time studying basic science you wouldn't make foolish statements like "Tesla energy".
But no let's "motor" that error away and keep back-pedaling until you find shelter in something you CAN be right about
Science isn't conducted by back-pedaling word games however
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by Sheepdog
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 1:14 AM
Patents...Now I got to show you stinking PATENTS? damn you're as lazy ( on D'ling) as fresca, wonder why? Nikola Tesla invented the AC motor and transformer, 3-phase electricity and the Tesla Coil. Tesla is now credited with inventing modern radio as well; the Supreme Court overturned Marconi's patent in 1943 in favor of Tesla. Ten years after patenting a successful method for producing alternating current, Nikola Tesla claimed the invention of an electrical generator that would not "consume any fuel." This invention has ben lost to the public. "I have harnessed the cosmic rays and caused them to operate a motive device." - Tesla. http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/bltesla.htm Here's some advice. Relax, put you hands back in your pockets and watch the blinking lights. Hey I'm not illiterate...my ma and pa were married.
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 1:19 AM
Tesla introduced / in 1888
In 1886, Westinghouse
That's still 2 years *after* Westinghouse DEVELOPED THE POWER WE USE - which was the question.
that time machine is still running backwards...
and the patents ARE held by Westinghouse just as I said (he has over 400 patents BTW)
AND WHAT ABOUT "TESLA ENERGY" ?
Still no answer on that either..
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by Sheepdog
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 1:22 AM
A man of no great importance, right Mr. Whizzard? Back peddeling?
?
Oh you mean that thing you do when you are wrong? No I'm just standing still while you trip over your spud. It just looks that way to you.
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 1:33 AM
what you claimed is Tesla energy is Oersteds, then you claimed the AC power we use came from Tesla - no it came from Westinghouse.
Now the flakes show again - "Cosmic rays" energy source, "run on anything" motors
Westinghouse is the one responsible for the AC power we use - Tesla was too mental to be up to the task - Westinghouse is the one with his feet on the ground who MADE IT HAPPEN
None of Westinghouse's > 400 patents were for anything wild, fantastic or impractical
You are now comparing pasting flake shit to academic data which isn't even the subject you tried to call me an idiot on - it was calling Oersteds "Tesla energy"
That has completely disappeared while you attempt a bait & switch game.
Where's your Tesla energy ?
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 1:36 AM
"Tesla energy"
Tell us about it
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by Sheepdog
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 2:02 AM
Let's see... All the suppliers (ever run an Engineering Stores, with the ordering and the incoming inspection etc...as I have, on all ends, good buddy?) know of Tesla; he invented stuff that your man Westinghouse used and he was a smart person. unlike you who has a memory problem and delusions of grandure surpassing even mine... but 'you' are fun to poke.
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 2:21 AM
> know of Tesla
ENERGY ?
Again you failed to answer the question YOU RAISED
I've seen several ad hoc's - one in every post now, and everything under the sun brought up OTHER THAN "Tesla energy"
BAIT & SWITCH
You even tried to put the words "Tesla not important" "didn't invent anything" in my mouth - classic STRAWMAN game
Let's review ;
YOU SAID "Tesla energy"
I SAID "no that's called Oersteds - here's the proof"
Everything else since then has been YOU AVOIDING THIS ERROR BY NAME CALLING AND INSULTING WHILE TRYING TO KEEP CHANGING THE SUBJECT until you could find SOMETHING ELSE to be right about - because you were wrong.
GAMES
Pointing fingers - attempting character attacks "you who has a memory problem and delusions of grandure"
Attacking the person rather than the subject
THE SUBJECT YOU RAISED IN THE FIRST PLACE
"Tesla energy" does not exist - it is neither a form of energy NOR a unit of measure
Attacking the person who enlightened you to this fact DOES NOTHING to prove otherwise - no matter how many other flakes you can paste or quote to say so - which BTW you havent - you pasted a single URL which doesn't even SAY anything about "Tesla energy" yet now attempting to claim "other people know about Tesla and what he did" as a substitute (bait & switch) for YOUR claim of "Tesla energy"
Just more games more bait & switch and more ad hoc's
ALL I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT is this "Tesla energy" you called me an idiot for correcting
But obviously that's the one thing you WON'T talk about...
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by Sheepdog
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 2:24 AM
Tesla Energy, since you asked Returning to New York in 1900, Tesla began construction on Long Island of a wireless world broadcasting tower, with $150,000 capital from the American financier J. Pierpont Morgan. Tesla claimed he secured the loan by assigning 51 percent of his patent rights of telephony and telegraphy to Morgan. He expected to provide worldwide communication and to furnish facilities for sending pictures, messages, weather warnings, and stock reports. The project was abandoned because of a financial panic, labour troubles, and Morgan's withdrawal of support. It was Tesla's greatest defeat. http://www.neuronet.pitt.edu/~bogdan/tesla/bio.htm Essentially a method of using the earth's field resonance as a carrier for current ( power ).
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 2:37 AM
no radio is not "Tesla energy" either ;
In 1887 a physicist named Heinrich Rudolf Hertz who proved that electricity can be transmitted in electromagnetic waves.
NOT TESLA ENERGY
try again
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by Sheepdog
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 2:38 AM
where exactly did I mention 'tesla energy' until you brought it up? Hmmmmm?
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by Sheepdog
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 2:44 AM
Elf at about 7.88 htz.. Sure call it radio.
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 2:57 AM
> where exactly did I mention 'tesla energy' until you brought it up? Hmmmmm?
"The units for magnetic field strength are the weber/m2, called the tesla."
CALLED THE TESLA
no called Oersteds...
A magnetic field is a form of energy - the measurement of this energy is in Oersteds - NOT TESLA
"called the tesla"
NO called Oersteds
" where exactly did I mention " " you who has a memory problem "
> Elf at about 7.88 htz.. Sure call it radio.
electromagnetic energy - RADIO
I can pick it up on a radio... What does a radio receive ?
RADIO
DUH !
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by Sheepdog
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 3:02 AM
' "The units for magnetic field strength are the weber/m2, called the tesla." did that read as 'Tesla power'? Easy there with the wild logic hombre. '
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by Hex
Thursday, Aug. 04, 2005 at 3:12 AM
"The units for magnetic field strength are the weber/m2, called the tesla."
no called Oersteds...
magnetic ENERGY
what ? magnetic UN-energy ?
energy is power - power is energy
WORD GAMES
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by Sheepdog
Tuesday, Aug. 09, 2005 at 1:22 AM
Hi! Nice rebuttal, Hex. If you like babbling nonsense having nothing to do with what I wrote except in your mind.
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by richirich
Friday, Dec. 29, 2006 at 8:37 PM
richsuka@yahoo.com
the magnet is the effect of adding a positive charged to a known metal, the known metal is then change to a magnet. the positive charge simple seperates the protons (+) and the neutrons (-). by increasing the number of protons on one side, the magnet then will bond with metals are made up with the same atoms types.
too much coffee today
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