any plans for a second march in LA on March 20th? i am interested in protesting but i am reluctant to join the ANSWER coalition march route starting at Hollywood and Vine. the antiwar movement is enormous and complex and i feel that the March route(s) should reflect this. can anybody who knows the planned march route please post it here? is it a straight line? what about alternatives? two parallell routes on adjacent boulevards? three parallell routes? converging around the CNN building? visibility is always a problem. how about just spreading out?

if, at a gathering of twenty thousand people, everybody just takes five steps away from the nearest person every two minutes (staying on sidewalks if necessary), the expansive effects would be huge, peaceful, and unstoppable. if one extrapolates the effects in a city like los angeles over the course of four or five hours the possible results resemble the real interaction that is in fact creating unprecedented levels of dissent world wide.

if we aim to energize and inspire more and more ongoing activism in the weeks and months and years to come, i think that events like the upcoming protest on March 20th should demonstrate to participants the kind of dynamic and challenging and constructive experience that we can all have when we take action against the masters of war. the World Social Forum is one successful example of a huge and complex event with mutliple focal points - hundreds of different focal points in fact. there are many good criticisms of the WSF but it is generally conceded that the diversity of focal points is one of the reasons for the growth and influence of that forum. for the same reasons, i think that for a group of people as huge and diverse as we can expect on March 20th, marching in a single straight line will actually degenerate much of the very constructive energy that will be brought to this event.

i believe these upcoming global protests will be truly historic in proportion and i think that if we can create a new more complex protest experience on March 20th and/or in the future, that we will inspire and achieve still greater things as a community, not just as a select group of organizers. massive events should not only be end results for organizers - massive events should be the beginning points of thousands more projects and actions of the participants. i know that most of us go to these protests not only to vent and exhaust our dissatisfaction but also in hopes of recharging our energies for the even greater battles ahead. those hopes may not come true right away, but most of us can't help having them so let's talk about them and try to make them come true as soon as possible, so that we can solve bigger problems.

I fully support this idea as do the people I will be marching with

I'm sure the ANSWER march route will be the same as the 2/15 demo

Check out this link for the breakaway march from that day-also has a good map
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/02/29308_comment.php#39227

i don't think the breakaway march you linked to was very effective. i hope that constructive alternative march routes can be worked out openly and cooperatively and organized well ahead of the event. i think the long term risk of breakaway marches is that if they are not inspiring (the Hollywood 2/15 breakaway was not inspiring in my opinion) they may create the impression that the usual straight line single-focus march is really the only workable option. of course that is the wrong conclusion, but the negative feeling about it is correct i think. that is exactly the opposite of what we should be trying to do if we hope for a more inspiring alternative to the single-focus marches organized by ANSWER, etc.

all the same, if it's a choice between an ineffective breakaway and not going at all, i think it's better to go. self-doubt is not the answer. but preparation is key. and think bigger. think a thousand times bigger. if well organized, breakaway marches can be inspiring.

but i personally don't want to be part of a repeat of last year's Hollywood breakaway. dissent is much more widespread than it was a year ago. in fact that is a huge understatement. activists ought to take note of the immense positive changes and consider new approaches. ANSWER has always acted like the antiwar movement is way smaller than it is. anarchists and non-sectarian activists and newcomers of diverse types should be able to avoid that mistake. i think this year March 20th will be really huge (unless Bush makes his next big domestic terror move first - remember when you were psyched for 'S29'?). i really hope to hear about some big plans for alternate routes or other developments that can inspire the millions of new people around the world who are, it seems, dying to get in the streets for just about anything (judging by the hysteria outside the recent Michael Jackson arraignment) - even in the USA. the mood of the country seems unusually unruly recently and hopefully activists will make the most of it.

yo, You are correct, the breakaway on feb 15 was bullshit...

I didn't post it with the idea that we would do the same thing(or because I thought it was a good example), kinda just so people have an idea of what the PDs pull, where we will be, etc etc

Remember we shutdown Wilshire Blvd. We were there all night!

Don't let Answer or any group lead you around in a permit march. Take to the streets. Direct action. Protest much obey little.

Q: Who's streets?

See the links:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/03/38228.php

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/03/38444_comment.php#38446

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/03/38871.php

http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2003/03/38708.php

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/03/38458.php

the federal building is, in my opinion, a waste of time

I was there the night the war started, it was a joke...people over the intercom said we had won by occupying the street-occupying one intersection in a city like LA is nothing compared to what is actually possible

I personally don't think the federal building (aside from political reasons) is that great of a location, it pins people into a small area that's not really near anything worthwhile...

Anywho, are people actually going to do a breakaway or will this idea be lost to the world of indymedia???

Louder Than Bombs is an affinity group of fans of The Smiths and Morrissey who will march during the March 20th demo.

It won't be following an alternate route, but we hope that people who might not otherwise come to an anti-war demo will come and experience it in the company of friends, old and new. If you are a fan, or are interested, click on the link and join the group.

The group was started because some local activists found out that they liked or had liked The Smiths. Based on this common, yet secret interest, a plan was hatched to both engage Smiths fans, and also create a fun activity for marchers who don't want to feel so alienated in the crowd.

In my personal opinion, the great failing of the ANSWER marches is their failure to engage and draw in new people. The official routes are cleared out well before the march begins, so most of the marchers are never seen by the general public.

related exhange and link:

will March 20th be amazingly small?

THE PEOPLE POSTING INFORMATION ABOUT BREAKAWAY MARCHES ARE UNDERCOVER AGENTS TRYING TO CREATE A SITUATION THAT NECESSITATES A VIOLENT RESPONSE FROM THE COPS. DON'T LISTEN AND DON'T GO. THEY ARE AGENTS!

i was at the last hollywood break away. that was no good. there was just no plan, we just started walking the streets in full block and just attracted attention, and the federal building is just a waste of time. but i like everyones ideas about imagination, that is exactly what we need. somthing new, somthing exciting, somthing refreshing. walking around in black bloc 3 or 4 hours before we actualy do anything is boring and just attracts police attention. we need to be spontaneuos. i was thinking maybe not getting dressed in block untill the last minute, right before we do any sort of action. im sure bloc's work quite well in other cities that have a large anarchist gathering at marches but here in l.a. i think that would be most highly effective if we wait untill the last minute. they wont know what hit em, and neither will we : )




it might be quite fun...

Whenever ANSWER feels they have lost control of a situation, they always pull the "agent" card and blame dissent on the police. It is a disgusting and an old, tired tactic.

error

A March 20th protest without provocateurs! Don't listen to the hysterics of those who plan to "break away"... their strategies are leading to repression, violence, mayhem, and arrest!

Isolate the disrupters.

i agree with 'astrid the proll' that we need to be spontaneous. but be careful! and it's often best to plan these kinds of things openly and far in advance....

see also these discussions at NYC-IMC:

http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/88831/index.php
http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/88989/index.php
http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/89024/index.php

noticed this update posted by 'direct action network' over at NYC-IMC....

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THE PENS ARE UP! PLS FWD WIDELY

As of 12pm today, NYPD metal "protest pens" for the Sat., Mar. 20 antiwar march and rally in NYC are up from 23rd Street to 43rd Street on Madison Ave. I don't know if they extend around onto 23rd, following the announced march route, but Madison is completely stocked with them now.

Some side streets have pens extending all the way to the next avenue - i.e., Park or Fifth - and 43rd Street (the upper end of the pens) has a large sign saying it will be closed to traffic 7am to 7pm on Saturday. There are PLENTY of extra metal pens stacked up at ALL intersections of Madison, indicating that either the side streets could be shut off or the pens could be extended across Madison to block off groups of assembling activists at short notice.

The pens are positioned on the curbs on both sides of the avenue, indicating that activists will have the entire street in which to assemble but that they will be rigidly separated from "regular" pedestrian traffic on the sidewalks.

QUESTION: Does anyone know whether UFPJ's agreement with the NYPD specifies pens extending all the way to 43rd Street??

source

see also: link