We had a server outage, and we're rebuilding the site. Most of the site features won't work. Thank you for your patience.
imc indymedia

Los Angeles Indymedia : Activist News

white themeblack themered themetheme help
About Us Contact Us Calendar Publish RSS
Features
latest news
best of news
syndication
commentary


KILLRADIO

VozMob

ABCF LA

A-Infos Radio

Indymedia On Air

Dope-X-Resistance-LA List

LAAMN List




IMC Network:

Original Cities

www.indymedia.org africa: ambazonia canarias estrecho / madiaq kenya nigeria south africa canada: hamilton london, ontario maritimes montreal ontario ottawa quebec thunder bay vancouver victoria windsor winnipeg east asia: burma jakarta japan korea manila qc europe: abruzzo alacant andorra antwerpen armenia athens austria barcelona belarus belgium belgrade bristol brussels bulgaria calabria croatia cyprus emilia-romagna estrecho / madiaq euskal herria galiza germany grenoble hungary ireland istanbul italy la plana liege liguria lille linksunten lombardia london madrid malta marseille nantes napoli netherlands nice northern england norway oost-vlaanderen paris/Île-de-france patras piemonte poland portugal roma romania russia saint-petersburg scotland sverige switzerland thessaloniki torun toscana toulouse ukraine united kingdom valencia latin america: argentina bolivia chiapas chile chile sur cmi brasil colombia ecuador mexico peru puerto rico qollasuyu rosario santiago tijuana uruguay valparaiso venezuela venezuela oceania: adelaide aotearoa brisbane burma darwin jakarta manila melbourne perth qc sydney south asia: india mumbai united states: arizona arkansas asheville atlanta austin baltimore big muddy binghamton boston buffalo charlottesville chicago cleveland colorado columbus dc hawaii houston hudson mohawk kansas city la madison maine miami michigan milwaukee minneapolis/st. paul new hampshire new jersey new mexico new orleans north carolina north texas nyc oklahoma philadelphia pittsburgh portland richmond rochester rogue valley saint louis san diego san francisco san francisco bay area santa barbara santa cruz, ca sarasota seattle tampa bay tennessee urbana-champaign vermont western mass worcester west asia: armenia beirut israel palestine process: fbi/legal updates mailing lists process & imc docs tech volunteer projects: print radio satellite tv video regions: oceania united states topics: biotech

Surviving Cities

www.indymedia.org africa: canada: quebec east asia: japan europe: athens barcelona belgium bristol brussels cyprus germany grenoble ireland istanbul lille linksunten nantes netherlands norway portugal united kingdom latin america: argentina cmi brasil rosario oceania: aotearoa united states: austin big muddy binghamton boston chicago columbus la michigan nyc portland rochester saint louis san diego san francisco bay area santa cruz, ca tennessee urbana-champaign worcester west asia: palestine process: fbi/legal updates process & imc docs projects: radio satellite tv
printable version - js reader version - view hidden posts - tags and related articles

Israeli's sense they've won

by JAMES BENNET The New York Times /B.A. Saturday, Jul. 05, 2003 at 10:13 AM

Israeli officials are expressing growing confidence that after 33 months they have defeated the Palestinian uprising, or intifada.

TEL AVIV, July 3 Israeli officials are expressing growing confidence that after 33 months they have defeated the Palestinian uprising, or intifada.

The Israeli chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Moshe Yaalon, told Israeli reporters on Wednesday that the developments this week might eventually be seen "as the end" of the conflict. "It is certainly a victory" for Israel, he was quoted as saying.

Some Israeli analysts criticized that conclusion as premature, if not hubristic. Yet for now, the American-brokered talks between the adversaries are being held on what appear to be largely Israeli terms.

Negotiators who three years ago were discussing how to divide Jerusalem are debating how to return partial control of cities that were then under Palestinian authority .

"When the intifada began, the demand was, `End the occupation, because the negotiations led to nothing,' " said Samir al-Mashharawi, a leader of the mainstream Palestinian faction, Fatah . "Now, Palestinian demands are to return back to the situation right before the intifada, and we are negotiating about this."

He said that during one of his terms as an Israeli prisoner, he and other inmates demanded chairs and tables. In response, he said, the Israelis took their mattresses. The prisoners demanded them back.

"After a month, they returned the mattresses, and we felt very happy we achieved something," he said. "Israeli diplomacy is based on this idea."

How the Bush administration will press the peace plan forward is unclear. Violence could erupt again at any moment, and Palestinians have proven they can inflict tremendous pain including economic loss on Israel. It was no accident that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon chose an economic conference in Jerusalem today to declare, "For the first time since I entered the office of prime minister, there is a real possibility of an end to terror and the return to normal life."

The Israelis appear to be filling in the details of a new American-backed peace plan, which Israel had resisted, to better suit its perceived interests.

The Israeli Army will not withdraw from any more Palestinian cities until it sees that Palestinian security officers are acting against violent groups in Bethlehem and Gaza, where forces pulled back this week, a senior Israeli military official said today.

Mahmoud Abbas, the appointed Palestinian prime minister, may be seen as an Israeli agent if he jails those who violate the truce. He hopes to gain strength as Israel makes concessions, and for now, the main Palestinian factions have voluntarily suspended attacks.

Israel says that it cannot risk being too indulgent and that Mr. Abbas must act against militants in the next two or three weeks or the peace process will freeze.

Over the course of the conflict, Israel maximized its bargaining position, by taking back territory and encouraging settlers to set up new outposts to extend their grip on the West Bank. By contrast, the Palestinians, whose main demand is statehood, find their negotiating leverage much reduced.

Mr. Mashharawi said they had shown that unless the Israeli occupation ended "there will be no peace and security in the region." And he warned of "another intifada" unless the Israelis moved swiftly to give Palestinians independence.

Israelis say they have forced Palestinians to rethink violence. In March 2002, during a wave of Palestinian attacks, Mr. Sharon declared: "The aim is to increase the number of losses on the other side. Only after they've been battered will we be able to conduct talks."

At the end of that March, Israel launched military offensives to seize Palestinian cities in the West Bank, control of which had been ceded under the Oslo peace process.

Now, the senior military official said, "the Palestinians at least the ones who make decisions came to the conclusion that violence will not achieve their political goals."

"I cannot say it is over," he cautioned, but he said that if the peace process succeeded, the Palestinian street might come to the same conclusion about violence "in a few weeks, and a few months."

He said the American wars in Afghanistan and Iraq , as well as new pressure from European and Arab states, had also helped change the Palestinian view on violence.

If the Palestinians end their uprising, their remaining levers for negotiations may be time and demography. With the Palestinian population growing rapidly, Jews will become a minority in Israel and its occupied territories within a few years, Israeli experts say. That may put either Israel's Jewish character or its democracy at risk if Palestinians do not form a separate state.

The new American-backed peace plan, known as the road map, calls for a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace and a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza in just three years. But Mr. Sharon has a longer time line in mind. The second of the peace plan's three phases a Palestinian state with "provisional" borders could ease Israel's demographic predicament without forcing it to confront the deepest disputes between the two sides, such as control of Jerusalem.

The military official said that Israel would not begin substantive political negotiations over questions like Jerusalem until the Palestinians had fully broken up militant groups, confiscating their weapons, destroying their training centers, arresting their dangerous members and ending all "incitement" to violence.

"They will have to get rid of all their terrorist capabilities," he said, acknowledging this could take years.

The Bush administration does not appear to be pressing Israel to abide by the plan's schedule. A Western diplomat said the administration was more interested in commitments met than dates kept.

As demanded under the plan, Israel has begun taking down some of the settlers' outposts, though new ones are going up. Little has been said about a freeze on further growth of established settlements called for in the plan's first phase.

To try to raise Mr. Abbas's popularity, Israel has begun releasing some of its more than 5,000 Palestinian prisoners, a step not in the plan. But as one senior Israeli official noted, there is a difference between releasing prisoners and conceding land: freed prisoners can always be arrested again.
Report this post as:
Share on: Twitter, Facebook, Google+

add your comments


LATEST COMMENTS ABOUT THIS ARTICLE
Listed below are the 10 latest comments of 20 posted about this article.
These comments are anonymously submitted by the website visitors.
TITLE AUTHOR DATE
Oh, I see... Diogenes Saturday, Jul. 05, 2003 at 11:30 AM
Israelis sense that they've won Meyer London Saturday, Jul. 05, 2003 at 12:18 PM
How do you figure? Dagny Saturday, Jul. 05, 2003 at 2:31 PM
I don't know for sure... Diogenes Saturday, Jul. 05, 2003 at 8:58 PM
Murky indeed Dagny Saturday, Jul. 05, 2003 at 9:51 PM
Oops Dagny Saturday, Jul. 05, 2003 at 9:53 PM
ROFL fresca Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003 at 5:13 AM
fresca fresca Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003 at 7:13 AM
Always a delight... Diogenes Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003 at 7:26 AM
Thank you fresca Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003 at 7:36 AM
mindless Fools Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003 at 7:42 AM
What's needed? fresca Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003 at 7:53 AM
fresca fresca Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003 at 7:56 AM
and then Fools Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003 at 7:56 AM
Cocaine and Afghanistan Meyer London Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003 at 11:46 AM
Chicks with Dicks Diogenes Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003 at 12:12 PM
mmm Scottie Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003 at 7:46 PM
explanation of his problems Meyer London Monday, Jul. 07, 2003 at 12:03 PM
Scottie Ted Thompson Tuesday, Jul. 08, 2003 at 4:52 AM

Local News

Change Links September 2018 posted S02 10:22PM

More Scandals Rock Southern California Nuke Plant San Onofre A30 11:09PM

Site Outage Friday A30 3:49PM

Change Links August 2018 A14 1:56AM

Setback for Developer of SC Farm Land A12 11:09PM

More problems at Shutdown San Onofre Nuke J29 10:40PM

Change Links 2018 July posted J09 8:27PM

More Pix: "Families Belong Together," Pasadena J02 7:16PM

"Families Belong Together" March, Pasadena J02 7:08PM

Short Report on the Families Belong Together Protest in Los Angeles J30 11:26PM

Summer 2018 National Immigrant Solidarity Network News Alert! J11 6:58AM

Watch the Debate: Excluded Candidates for Governor of California M31 5:20AM

Change Links June 2018 posted M28 7:41AM

The Montrose Peace Vigil at 12 Years M22 8:01PM

Unity Archive Project M21 9:42AM

Dianne Feinstein's Promotion of War, Secret Animal Abuse, Military Profiteering, Censorshi M17 10:22PM

CA Senate Bill 1303 would require an independent coroner rather than being part of police M10 9:08PM

Three years after OC snitch scandal, no charges filed against sheriffs deputies M10 8:57PM

California police agencies violate Brown Act (open meetings) M02 8:31PM

Insane Company Wants To Send Nuke Plant Waste To New Mexico A29 11:47PM

Change Links May 2018 A27 8:40AM

Worker-Owned Car Wash on Vermont Closed A27 5:37AM

GUIDE TO REBEL CITY LOS ANGELES AVAILABLE A13 12:39AM

lausd whistle blower A11 6:58AM

More Local News...

Other/Breaking News

test O06 10:01AM

test O06 9:59AM

test O06 9:59AM

100 Ways GOP Have Stolen Elections Since 1876 O06 12:03AM

Proximospective de l'univocité réifiée O05 6:27AM

“Kava-no!!!” O04 6:42PM

Trump & Palestine vs. Genesis, Rashi & The Land of Israel O03 6:29PM

The Criminality of the Elites O03 11:35AM

Business de l'inhumanitaire O03 7:51AM

Marriage Rape/Date Rape Highest Rapes O02 2:59PM

Women I Know Get Raped - Too Many Times To Count! O02 2:55PM

Women In USA Have Stockholm Syndrom O02 2:50PM

Shooting Drill's Are Political Actual Shootings O02 2:47PM

Dr. Ford's Father Works With CIA O02 2:44PM

Weaponizing Frequencies O02 2:41PM

Google Abuses: Worldwide Spying, Censorship, War Promotion, Spying On Children, Etc O02 11:08AM

Paraphysique de l'administration O02 8:34AM

Paraphysique O02 8:31AM

Affordable Rents? A State of Emergency Intensifies O01 11:36AM

A Few Of Many Impeachable Acts by Trump Sessions And Others O01 4:41AM

Désengrammation, l'éloge de la suite S30 7:01AM

someone Should Work In Hollywood - Good Acting! S28 2:55PM

Ford Gives Psych Drugs To Lower Class To Shut Them Up? S28 2:51PM

Hilllary Calls Ford Trailer Trash? S28 2:47PM

Most Rapes Are In Marriages S28 2:43PM

Nice Boys Dirty Deeds S28 2:41PM

Minnesota 2nd Largest Rape State S28 2:39PM

Paraphysique de la plus-value S28 7:18AM

More Breaking News...
© 2000-2018 Los Angeles Independent Media Center. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not necessarily endorsed by the Los Angeles Independent Media Center. Running sf-active v0.9.4 Disclaimer | Privacy