Statement March 16, 2003
Craig and Cindy Corrie, parents of Rachel Corrie

We are now in a period of grieving and still finding out the details behind the death of Rachel in the Gaza Strip. We have raised all our children to appreciate the beauty of the global community and family and are proud that Rachel was able to live her convictions. Rachel was filled with love and a sense of duty to her fellow man, wherever they lived. And, she gave her life trying to protect those that are unable to protect themselves.

Rachel wrote to us from the Gaza Strip and we would like to release to the media her experience in her own words at this time.

Thank you.

Excerpts from an e-mail from Rachel Corrie to her family on February 7, 2003.

I have been in Palestine for two weeks and one hour now, and I still have very few words to describe what I see. It is most difficult for me to think about what's going on here when I sit down to write back to the United States--something about the virtual portal into luxury. I don't know if many of the children here have ever existed without tank-shell holes in their walls and the towers of an occupying army surveying them constantly from the near horizons. I think, although I'm not entirely sure, that even the smallest of these children understand that life is not like this everywhere. An eight-year-old was shot and killed by an Israeli tank two days before I got here, and many of the children murmur his name to me, “Ali”--or point at the posters of him on the walls. The children also love to get me to practice my limited Arabic by asking me "Kaif Sharon?" "Kaif Bush?" and they laugh when I say "Bush Majnoon" "Sharon Majnoon" back in my limited Arabic. (How is Sharon? How is Bush? Bush is crazy. Sharon is crazy.) Of course this isn't quite what I believe, and some of the adults who have the English correct me: Bush mish Majnoon... Bush is a businessman. Today I tried to learn to say "Bush is a tool", but I don't think it translated quite right. But anyway, there are eight-year-olds here much more aware of the workings of the global power structure than I was just a few years ago--at least regarding Israel.

Nevertheless, I think about the fact that no amount of reading, attendance at conferences, documentary viewing and word of mouth could have prepared me for the reality of the situation here. You just can't imagine it unless you see it, and even then you are always well aware that your experience is not at all the reality: what with the difficulties the Israeli Army would face if they shot an unarmed US citizen, and with the fact that I have money to buy water when the army destroys wells, and, of course, the fact that I have the option of leaving. Nobody in my family has been shot, driving in their car, by a rocket launcher from a tower at the end of a major street in my hometown. I have a home. I am allowed to go see the ocean. Ostensibly it is still quite difficult for me to be held for months or years on end without a trial (this because I am a white US citizen, as opposed to so many others). When I leave for school or work I can be relatively certain that there will not be a heavily armed soldier waiting half way between Mud Bay and downtown Olympia at a checkpoint—a soldier with the power to decide whether I can go about my business, and whether I can get home again when I'm done. So, if I feel outrage at arriving and entering briefly and incompletely into the world in which these children exist, I wonder conversely about how it would be for them to arrive in my world.

They know that children in the United States don't usually have their parents shot and they know they sometimes get to see the ocean. But once you have seen the ocean and lived in a silent place, where water is taken for granted and not stolen in the night by bulldozers, and once you have spent an evening when you haven’t wondered if the walls of your home might suddenly fall inward waking you from your sleep, and once you’ve met people who have never lost anyone-- once you have experienced the reality of a world that isn't surrounded by murderous towers, tanks, armed "settlements" and now a giant metal wall, I wonder if you can forgive the world for all the years of your childhood spent existing--just existing--in resistance to the constant stranglehold of the world’s fourth largest military--backed by the world’s only superpower--in it’s attempt to erase you from your home. That is something I wonder about these children. I wonder what would happen if they really knew.

As an afterthought to all this rambling, I am in Rafah, a city of about 140,000 people, approximately 60 percent of whom are refugees--many of whom are twice or three times refugees. Rafah existed prior to 1948, but most of the people here are themselves or are descendants of people who were relocated here from their homes in historic Palestine--now Israel. Rafah was split in half when the Sinai returned to Egypt. Currently, the Israeli army is building a fourteen-meter-high wall between Rafah in Palestine and the border, carving a no-mans land from the houses along the border. Six hundred and two homes have been completely bulldozed according to the Rafah Popular Refugee Committee. The number of homes that have been partially destroyed is greater.

Today as I walked on top of the rubble where homes once stood, Egyptian soldiers called to me from the other side of the border, "Go! Go!" because a tank was coming. Followed by waving and "what's your name?". There is something disturbing about this friendly curiosity. It reminded me of how much, to some degree, we are all kids curious about other kids: Egyptian kids shouting at strange women wandering into the path of tanks. Palestinian kids shot from the tanks when they peak out from behind walls to see what's going on. International kids standing in front of tanks with banners. Israeli kids in the tanks anonymously, occasionally shouting-- and also occasionally waving--many forced to be here, many just aggressive, shooting into the houses as we wander away.

In addition to the constant presence of tanks along the border and in the western region between Rafah and settlements along the coast, there are more IDF towers here than I can count--along the horizon,at the end of streets. Some just army green metal. Others these strange spiral staircases draped in some kind of netting to make the activity within anonymous. Some hidden,just beneath the horizon of buildings. A new one went up the other day in the time it took us to do laundry and to cross town twice to hang banners. Despite the fact that some of the areas nearest the border are the original Rafah with families who have lived on this land for at least a century, only the 1948 camps in the center of the city are Palestinian controlled areas under Oslo. But as far as I can tell, there are few if any places that are not within the sights of some tower or another. Certainly there is no place invulnerable to apache helicopters or to the cameras of invisible drones we hear buzzing over the city for hours at a time.

I've been having trouble accessing news about the outside world here, but I hear an escalation of war on Iraq is inevitable. There is a great deal of concern here about the "reoccupation of Gaza." Gaza is reoccupied every day to various extents, but I think the fear is that the tanks will enter all the streets and remain here, instead of entering some of the streets and then withdrawing after some hours or days to observe and shoot from the edges of the communities. If people aren't already thinking about the consequences of this war for the people of the entire region then I hope they will start.

I also hope you'll come here. We've been wavering between five and six internationals. The neighborhoods that have asked us for some form of presence are Yibna, Tel El Sultan, Hi Salam, Brazil, Block J, Zorob, and Block O. There is also need for constant night-time presence at a well on the outskirts of Rafah since the Israeli army destroyed the two largest wells. According to the municipal water office the wells destroyed last week provided half of Rafah’s water supply. Many of the communities have requested internationals to be present at night to attempt to shield houses from further demolition. After about ten p.m. it is very difficult to move at night because the Israeli army treats anyone in the streets as resistance and shoots at them. So clearly we are too few.

I continue to believe that my home, Olympia, could gain a lot and offer a lot by deciding to make a commitment to Rafah in the form of a sister-community relationship. Some teachers and children's groups have expressed interest in e-mail exchanges, but this is only the tip of the iceberg of solidarity work that might be done. Many people want their voices to be heard, and I think we need to use some of our privilege as internationals to get those voices heard directly in the US, rather than through the filter of well-meaning internationals such as myself. I am just beginning to learn, from what I expect to be a very intense tutelage, about the ability of people to organize against all odds, and to resist against all odds.

Thanks for the news I've been getting from friends in the US. I just read a report back from a friend who organized a peace group in Shelton, Washington, and was able to be part of a delegation to the large January 18th protest in Washington DC. People here watch the media, and they told me again today that there have been large protests in the United States and "problems for the government" in the UK. So thanks for allowing me to not feel like a complete polyanna when I tentatively tell people here that many people in the United States do not support the policies of our government, and that we are learning from global examples how to resist.

For more information, please contact the International Solidarity Movement at +972 2 277 4602.

###

Archbishop Desmond Tutu used to declare about the, then, apartheid state of South Africa: "Apartheid is immoral, apartheid is evil, apartheid is wrong." The very same thing is true about the Zionist apartheid state of Israel. Nelson Mandela, upon his release from prison proclaimed in his American cities speaking tour before stadium audiences in the tens of thousands (60,000+ in the S.F. Bay Area), that: "The Palestinian cause in my cause!"

Israel is just as evil and immoral as apartheid ("Jim Crow") America was; ISRAEL is just as EVIL and IMMORAL as apartheid South Africa was; Israel is just as evil and immoral as Nazi Germany was up until 1942 (long after the Nazi persecution began, ironically, of the European JEWS, but before the death camps started in the last few years of the war, 1939-1945). Only world public opinion keeps Israeli Jews from commencing "THE FINAL SOLUTION" of "THE PALESTINIAN PROBLEM." The majority of the Israeli public already supports the complete ethnic cleansing--total population transfer--of Palestinians from Palestine.

The Israeli flag belongs in the pantheon of evil flags--right along side to the Confederate flag, the old apartheid South African flag, and the NAZI flag, as well as any other such flags. (I'm sure that Native Americans would put the American flag right up alongside there too.)

For those so-called "liberal/progressive" Zionists who recoil at my bluntness, it is time for you to WAKE UP and realize the fact that Israel IS a RACIST, EVIL, WICKED and IMMORAL state whose RACIST ideology needs to be abolished right along with other racist ideologies.

The courageous Bay Area Jewish-American veteran photojournalist, pro-Palestinian human rights activist, and anti-Zionist public speaker, Jeffrey Blankfort confronted some Zionist Jews at the Saturday anti-war protest rally in Jefferson Park in San Francisco, and told them that the Israeli flag that they had wrapped around themselves is just as "RACIST" as the Nazi flag was in Germany.

I am sickened to hear of Rachel's death, and the many more innocent Palestinians who are killed by Israel every day, and my heart goes out to Rachel Corrie's family, as well as to all those Palestinian families whose loved ones are killed by the state of Israel too. Rachel was a courageous person, because she didn't have to be there, bearing witness, trying to protect innocents, and doing Peace.

The driver of the bulldozer should be extradited to the US and put on trial for murder, just as other murderers are.

It is so disgusting how the national media are playing this, a soldier gets a splinter and he gets full coverage, a peace activist who has greater courage than a whole of squad of sheepish jarheads gets killed and she is barely mentioned. Enough of lies, duplicity, and prevarications. Let's shut down the insane war industry everywhere before it kills all of us.

Look at the photos damnit!
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/03/36277_comment.php#36356

The Israeli bulldozer is an armored one. It has all sorts of protection on it, which unfortunately obstructs the view of the operator.

Ms. Corrie's death is a tragedy, but it is not murder. She voluntarily placed herself in front of a bulldozer. She had been instructed in how best to slow or stop such vehicles - sitting on the ground or laying down in front of them. Where were her associates at the time? What was their number? Were they screaming at the operator? Distracting him? You cannot tell from the photographs any of the answers to these questions.

...that all the usual suspects are rushing to try to justify the inexcusable.

The fact is that even the action of the Bulldozer in trying to knock down the house contravenes U.N. Conventions, and the Geneva Accords in that it represents punishment directed at third parties not implicated in the crime which is supposedly being punished.

The IDF is involved in War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity and should be tried and shot.

...I think what has got the Shills and Zionist apologists so riled on this one is that it represents strong proof of the inhumanity of the IDF Occupation Forces.

Someone gets run over by a bulldozer half a world away, someone who WILLINGLY lay down in front of it.

Diogenes, based entirely on three still photographs, proclaims to know exactly what happened.

His omniscience is impressive.

...smear the messenger.

PSYMPLEton if you were any more transparent you would be a vacuum. Hmm? Come to think of it...

WHAT FACTS ARE BEING REFUTED?

You are offering an OPINION. You are not stating FACTS. There is a difference.

You string together three still photographs and a letter from the dead girl, and arrogate to yourself the ability to understand what happened on that day, in that place.

The above paragraph is a FACT.

You are an insufferable blowhard.

The above sentance is an OPINION.

See the difference yet?

...would like you all to forget is the statement of FACT which set him off into his current SPIN.

So, I’ll quote myself from earlier in the thread:

“The fact is that even the action of the Bulldozer in trying to knock down the house contravenes U.N. Conventions, and the Geneva Accords in that it represents punishment directed at third parties not implicated in the crime which is supposedly being punished.”

So, to make this absolutely pellucid: The action which Miss Corrie was opposing with her life was a War Crime punishable under the Geneva Conventions. Therefore the Bulldozer running over her was a WAR CRIME.

This the apologists absolutely do not want you to notice.

Over to you oh defender of the indefensible.

Kindly provide documentation of the relevant UN convention.

So, today you stand in favor of enforcing UN resolutions?

Back to you, dances-with-paranoia.

...I do enjoy my little dances with you.

The Geneva conventions are available online - look it up yourself . I am not going to waste my time doing your homework for you.

If da Shrub fucked Fido's mom in the ass, Fido would be there defend the act as justifiable and condemn his mother for dressing like a whore...

we should take this to the streets.

Simon, people are horrified at this story because it is horrifying. many similar murders have been perpetrated during demolitions by the IDF. do you deny all of those as well?

please stop insulting us.

people, we should take this to the streets.

KPC, you are a foul-mouthed infant.

Diogenes, you cannot provide documentation. Your argument falls like the house of cards it is. You don't know what happened on the day Ms. Corrie died any more than I do.

Oh, and you should check out some more pictures of Ms. Corrie from palsolidarity.org. Particularly touching is her screaming and igniting a homemade American flag while surrounded by Palestinian children. Like I said, very touching.

This would appear to be the main Psyops Spin line - they can't disprove what is recorded on film so the attack line will be to smear her.

Psymon you disgust me more each day. Just when I think you have plumbed the depths of shameless shillery you reach for a new low. You set the standard.

And the Genevea Accords clearly state that collective punishment is a War Crime. You can thump your chest all day long because I am not willing to go dig up the exact passage however I have read it and it is there. Prove me wrong.

You are such a child.

The girl is dead. The circumstances of her death are under investigation. All your chest-thumping and teeth-gnashing don't change that fact.

YOU'RE the one who made the assertion that the action of the bulldozer was against a UN resolution. Prove it. Otherwise you're just pissing in the wind as always. Furthermore, YOU don't know the exact circumstances of the demolition in question. We have not heard the Israeli government's opinion on the question. We have only the position of the demonstrators - whose antipathy towards Israel is not in doubt.

As far as my position on the "Diogenes thinks I'm Swell" chart, I am proud to be at the bottom. When paranoids and hate-America firsters dislike you, you're doing something right.

Compare and contrast the nonviolent efforts of Rachel Corrie with an Israeli mass murderer laudee as a "hero" in Israel. this is the sort of Israeli state terrorism U.S. tax dollars pays for.

http://www.newkach.org/special/baruch/02.htm

excerpt from site:

"On the Feast of Purim (February 1994), Dr. Baruch Goldstein, dressed as an army officer, entered the Tomb of the Patriarchs, and shot to death 29 Arabs and wounded approximately a hundred more. It is our great misfortune that Dr. Baruch Goldstein may G-D avenge his blood, who was brutally murdered by the Arabs is no longer with us."

Maybe she was not so peaceful.

She's shown here, apparently teaching the locals to hate Americans, by burning an American flag.

What a sad waste of good energy and drive.

Just as long as the REAL flag, the 'DON'T TREAD ON ME'
rebel flag is still sacred, I got NO problem.

It's not a crime to burn an Amerikan flag, no matter how distasteful some may find it. This is yet another extrajudicial murder in an illegally occupied zone, or in other words, a war crime.

From our friends at the opinionjournal.com

Terror Advocate Dies in Accident

Rachel Corrie, a 23-year-old terrorism advocate from Olympia, Wash., died in a bulldozer accident yesterday. Corrie was at fault in the accident, which occurred when she either stood or crouched in front of an Israeli Defense Forces bulldozer in Gaza, the Jerusalem Post reports:

The bulldozers were part of an IDF tunnel- and mine-clearing operation. The Rafah refugee camp borders Egypt, from which Palestinian terrorists smuggle in weapons and explosives. And according to interim peace accords, Israel has the right to operate in and secure the area.

Corrie not only backed anti-Israeli terrorism; she also hated America. An Associated Press photo shows Corrie, her face contorted with hate, burning a "mock U.S. flag" at a pro-Saddam rally last month. (Hat tip: Little Green Footballs.) Reuters reports on a "symbolic funeral" that drew some 1,000 Palestinian Arabs. One of them tells the "news" service: "We fly a U.S. flag today to show our support to all American peace lovers, those like Rachel." If she were still alive, no doubt she'd have burned the flag.

Fido, you shitheel, what is it you are trying to say here? Regardless of the above lies from our "friends", what is your point? That she deserved to be murdered? That we should look the other way as foreign governments murder Americans? You get all worked up in your feigned false lather over Saddams treatment of Iraqs, but here is an example of the murder of a US citizen, and you are all apologetic for the murderers...

...I get it...it was SELF DEFENSE....The IDF were CLEARLY under threat of a red jacketed terrorist attack, and acted accordingly...


You are becoming a bigger joke than I ever imagined you could be.....are you in the US or Israeli military, if there is in fact any difference these days....

She got hit by a bulldozer. The specifics of the incident are still in doubt. You don't know any more than I do about it.

Ms. Currie's death is a tragedy. It is also one that could have been easily avoided. Had she not engaged in the dangerous behavior of laying down in front of construction equipment we would not be having this conversation.

I am not getting emotional and suggesting we should take to the streets to protest what may very well be an accidental death.

What the IDF says the intention of the bulldozing and what the pro-Palestinians say are widely different. Being that this is a border area I think circumstantially supports the IDF position.

So that's what I'm saying.

I agree, its sad she had to die, and i wish she hadnt. But I guess we all learned a lesson from this.

Something like, DONT PROTECT TERRORISTS BY BECOMING HUMAN SHIELDS FOR THEM.

But ya, god bless her and her family. Hopefully, those human shields in Iraq learned something from this too.......

Well Psympleton:
Here’s a little data to put in your pipe and smoke. I could dig up more and refine it a little better but this is sufficient to overwhelm your weasling.

Quote from DC Sustain Press Release of March 17 2003:
“The Israeli military has destroyed more than 7,000 Palestinian homes since the beginning of the Israeli occupation in 1967, leaving 30,000 people homeless in clear violation of international law. The Fourth Geneva Convention prohibits collective punishment and the destruction of personal property in occupied lands.”

Link to full article: http://www.sustaincampaign.org/

U.N. Resolutions Israel is in violation of as regards Palestine:

271 (1969) Israel
Reiterates calls to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem and calls on Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers.

446 (1979) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers, to rescind previous measures that violate these relevant provisions, and "in particular, not to transport parts of its civilian population into the occupied Arab territories."

452 (1979) Israel
Calls on the government of Israel to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction, and planning of settlements in the Arab territories, occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem.

465 (1980) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions on Israel's settlements policy.

471 (1980) Israel
Demands prosecution of those involved in assassination attempts of West Bank leaders and compensation for damages; reiterates demands to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention.

484 (1980) Israel
Reiterates request that Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

592 (1986) Israel
Insists Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories.

605 (1987) Israel
"Calls once more upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide immediately and scrupulously by the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Times of War, and to desist forthwith from its policies and practices that are in violations of the provisions of the Convention."

607 (1986) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories.

608 (1988) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations.

636 (1989) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations.

641 (1989) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions calling on Israel to desist in its deportations.

672 (1990) Israel
Reiterates calls for Israel to abide by provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories.

673 (1990) Israel
Insists that Israel come into compliance with resolution 672.

681 (1990) Israel
Reiterates call on Israel to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories.

694 (1991) Israel
Reiterates that Israel "must refrain from deporting any Palestinian civilian from the occupied territories and ensure the safe and immediate return of all those deported."

799 (1992) Israel
"Reaffirms applicability of Fourth Geneva Convention…to all Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem, and affirms that deportation of civilians constitutes a contravention of its obligations under the Convention."

904 (1994) Israel
Calls upon Israel, as the occupying power, "to take and implement measures, inter alia, confiscation of arms, with the aim of preventing illegal acts of violence by settlers."

1073 (1996) Israel
"Calls on the safety and security of Palestinian civilians to be ensured."

1322 (2000) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying power.

1402 (2002) Israel
Calls for Israel to withdraw from Palestinian cities.

1403 (2002) Israel
Demands that Israel go through with "the implementation of its resolution 1402, without delay."

1405 (2002) Israel
Calls for UN inspectors to investigate civilian deaths during an Israeli assault on the Jenin refugee camp.

1435 (2002) Israel
Calls on Israel to withdraw to positions of September 2000 and end its military activities in and around Ramallah, including the destruction of security and civilian infrastructure.

Quotes from 4th Geneva Conventions of 1949:

“Art. 49. Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive....”

“Art. 53. Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.”

“Art. 68. Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed.

Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.

The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.

The death penalty may not be pronounced on a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.

In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced on a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.”

Link to Full Text of 4th Geneva Conventions:

Part1: http://www.israel-state-terrorism.org/4GenevaConvention1.html

Part 2: http://www.israel-state-terrorism.org/4GenevaConvention2.html

ISRAELI BULLDOZERS AS WEAPONS: ANOTHER IDEAL TOOL IN THE ISRAELI CAMPAIGN OF TERROR, CRUELTY AND ETHNIC CLEANSING

The wholesale bulldozing and demolition of Palestinian homes is one of the most cruel and repugnant practices of the Israeli government's campaign of terror and ethnic cleansing against the Palestinian people. Every human rights group has cried out against this policy but the International community mostly due to the intervention of the United States in the United Nations and elsewhere has so far done nothing. Each and every use of bulldozers for wholesale housing demolitions involved the perpetration of a WAR CRIME under the most rudimentary facts of international law. In violation of the Geneva Conventions, Palestinian homes are demolished at will to make way for Jewish settlements (the building of which constitute war crimes themselves) with Palestinian families being notified sometimes just minutes before the bulldozers arrive, accompanied by IDF soldiers and armored vehicles to forcefully control family members that try and get in the way or object. Sometimes the houses are bulldozed with people in them, and if family members attempt to object they are often beaten in front of other family members, or shot. Palestinian homes are also bulldozed dozens at a time, and sometimes more in the 'retaliatory' sweeps of the IDF, or for supposed 'security reasons' as in recent operations in the refugee camps. The method was perfected by Ariel Sharon in the 70's in Gaza when he ordered bulldozers to flatten 100s of homes in the course of several days, having those beaten who attempted to get in the way. The ultimate goal in all these cases is the killing, terrorizing, dispossessing, driving out or, in one way or another eliminating the Arab or Palestinian population from what the Zionist supremacists who control Israeli politics see as their 'biblical' or ordained right (a right given by God and above any human law or principle).

....everybody's a terrorist...

don't like your tie...

TERRORIST

....what team do you root for?....

TERRORIST....

you drink Coke or Pepsi....?

...TERRORIST!

God, you know how fuckin' stupid you sound when you bark like that? Your brain may be too feeble to interpret the complexities of reality....but don't expect everybody to put their brains on hold....

Fuckin wackos!

The definition of a terrorist is: One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism.

Protecting your homeland against those who would bomb you and obliterate your family is not terrorism, sorry, but you are sorely uneducated.

You are such a disgrace.

How the hell do you sleep at night.

I tremble to think that assholes like you are what people in other nations base their opinions of us on.

REPENT YOU ASSHOLE! GIVE UP! GIVE UP NOW! YOU'RE DESTROYING AMERICA! YOU KNOW IT AND YOU'RE DOING IT ANYWAYS!

fucking wannabe nazi dickweed. i hope you choke on dubya's tiny little dick and die.

Redundant: "Protecting your homeland against those who would bomb you and obliterate your family is not terrorism."

then by your own definition, the Palestinians are NOT terrorists...since they are protecting their homeland and families from murderous IDF terrorists...

...thanks for clearing that up, Mojo Jojo....now you can go back to your braying.....

Sorry, Diogenes, nice try but too late.

Seems the debate has moved on a bit since you first spouted off about UN resolutions.

Seems the IDF says they were digging for buried landmines and tunnels to stop arms shipments.

Kinda makes your point moot.

...the Israeli Spin Machine would not go back and concoct a PR cover story to cover up a crime that was bring International attention.

It ain't going to work except with the willing dupes - like you.

Yep, the Israelis always lie. And the Palestinians always tell the truth.

And Diogenes and KPC KNOW what happened to Ms. Currie - as if they were there.

Oh, and pray tell, Diogenes, what exactly does the Israeli government gain by running down an American college student?

Or do you think they needed her blood to make matzohs?

you idiot, i guess those Isreali dead are all a conspiracy, go to Isreal, Husseinrape-monger, see the bombings for yourself. Isreal is ready to give Palestine its own state, but how can you help your neighbors if they constantly bomb you? These incursions into Palestine help prevent more Isreali deaths, wonder why the bombings has lessened over the months, thanks to the Isreali army taking out these terrorist cells and bomb-makin capabilities.

I wonder why there were no bombings for two years until Sharon put his fat face back into the mix. I wonder rightwing thugs like you are such psychopathic sadists? You get the biggest hardon from mass death and destruction. That's why you will soon have your collective asses kicked out of this country.

Fido, I haven't the slightest idea what happened, but I do know that it is next to impossible to accidently run someone over with a bulldozer...there is little doubt based on the available info that the driver was at the least negligent and at the most murderous.

What I DO know is that you are an apologist for murderers. You've been doin' it here since your first post. So as soon as you put in you time defending this guy, I knew there was something rotten you were trying to cover up...

...you make unfounded assertions.

I never made either point in my posts - whether to pass judgement on both or not. For the record I suspect spin in any pronouncement made by any government.

The Photographic record is really quite clear.

“Oh, and pray tell, Diogenes, what exactly does the Israeli government gain by running down an American college student?”

PR Damage Control - and you know it. Run down and smear the victim to make less of the murder. This is a major PR embarassment for the Israeli Government and it is getting World Wide attention. It is not every day that the IDF gets caught on film conducting a cold-blooded murder. It lends too much credibility to what the Palestinians have been trying to bring public attention to - Israeli WAR CRIMES.

“Or do you think they needed her blood to make matzohs?” What leads you to say that? Do you suspect them of it?

I haven't defended anybody. I have suggested that we wait until we KNOW something before we jump to conclusions.

But of course, jumping to conclusions is the stock-in-trade of the la.indymedia 'sky is falling' chicken little crew.

Whaddya know...a coward in a uniform...a COMBAT COWARD...

...you posted that shit attacking this woman...WHY? Certainly not to enlighten...

...grow some hair on your ass, will ya Fido? Have the balls to admit your intentions...

Fuckin' eunuch....

I haven't attacked or defended anyone. Check the record, junior.

I have questioned her motivation for being in Gaza in the first place, yes. I have questioned the wisdom of sitting down in front of construction equipment, yes. I posted the article from opinionjournal.com because it presented (for the first time) the IDF's official position on the situation.

So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Its been fun arguing with you guys, sorry i insult you so much, but its my nature i guess, im a mental-retarded young SEXY guy thats why i suppose.

Maybe next time you will be able to successfully counter my points LIBERALS!

SUPPORT THE TROOPS! LIBERATE IRAQ!

...I was right, not one FUCKIN' hair on Fido's ass...


you are a simp, a coward, a fuckin' blowhard with no backup...no balls...no integrity...no conviction...no nuthin'

My guess is he has stopped believing in his cause. All his debating has led him to the logical conclusion that, basically, he chose the wrong side.

And he's too damn weak to do anything about it.

Cowardice is one thing... But murdering cowardice? Thats despicable. If you support this shit you are just as bad as the people ordering our troops to drop those bombs.

This isn't a damn video game. God damn i swear it seems like these fucks in DC have competely lost touch with reality.

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!
PUT THEM IN HARM'S WAY!!

maybe we really should take this debate to the streets.....

Mr and Mrs Corrie I am so sorry for your loss, I feel terrible and so sad for all of us and the planet. I can only say I feel cheated I did not get to meet your daughter, I know I would have been a better person for the meeting.

She dies for what she beleived in, may she rest where WAR is not an issue, and where EVERYONE is ONE.

i loathe the positions of 'simon' as much as most people seem to, but i wish people would stop feeding him childish obscenities to fire back at us. force your opponent to respond to serious questions.

such as:

do you, simon, believe that ms. corrie's involvement in 'anti-american' activities in any way lessens the tragedy of her death? do you believe 'smearing' a recently deceased person is in any way relevant to an inquiry into the circumstances surrounding her death, or the liability of certain parties in her death? you chose to attack a dead girl in a public forum for her participation in demonstrations in palestine, taking time you could have invested into one of your other, more relevant posts to distract everyone from the topic at hand. why?

you repeatedly assert that we do not know what has happened, and therefore cannot pass judgement. while potentially true, this does not prevent us from speculating on the meaning of the events in question, their larger context, or the accuracy of the information we are given. you have repeatedly responded to posts geared towards such investigations into the 'bigger picture' surrounding this event by reducing the argument to a few facts which you seem to deem perpetually indeterminable.

your argument also contains reference to the irrelevance of the geneva convention given the assertion of the IDF that it was searching for land mines. i don't see how this is the case. the geneva convention applies to all governments and their armies, regardless of the stated intent of said parties. it doesn't matter if the IDF was trying to get a cat down out of a tree; if it knocks over homes in the process, forcibly relocates civilians, or engages in other actions mentioned above and viewed as war crimes under the geneva convention, it is responsible for those actions and can be prosecuted in international court.

furthermore, the violence of the IDF against 'suspected terrorists' has proved to be no more of a 'deterrent', as it claims, than the death penalty has been proven to deter murder. the use of force, even if we accept that it is intended to preserve the integrity of national borders and prevent violence against civilians, has a number of convenient side effects. it allows israel to dominate, relocate, and oppress a population that threatens the jewish majority in that country. it perpetuates the maintenance of a relatively high internal standard of living in israel through the continued economic exploitation of palestinians, many of whom work or have worked in israel but enjoy none of the rights of israeli civilians. bulldozing houses, no matter what the stated purpose, certainly doesn't hurt the sharon agenda of colonialism and apartheid.

so the IDF (if you believe a pinko like me) commits war crimes in the interest of preserving jewish hegemony in israel/palestine and maintaining the racist status quo. when these war crimes are brought to our attention by the death of an American student - be it an accident, the result of a reckless demonstration, or even a calculated PR move by cynical palestinians, as some people have suggested - do the murky circumstances surrounding her death change the simple fact that the soldiers who ran her over were in violation of the law and had no right to be there in the first place?

Wow
Even the "despised" Chinese army wouldn't run over a protester in Tianamen Square.
Too bad the United States didn't want to enforce...........
United Nations Security Council Resolution 242
(Concerning Principles for a Just and Lasting Peace in the Middle East),
S.C. res. 242, U.N. Doc. S/RES/242
(1967).
LETS HERE WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT SIMPLE DILLWEED.
OR ARE YOU SEESICK FROM THE PAIN OF BEING A COASTIE.
=
TELL ME SOMTHING ABOUT WHY THE US WON'T ENFORCE THIS RESOLUTION.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 242


(November 22, 1967)


------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Security Council,

Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,

Emphasizing further that all Member States in their acceptance of the Charter of the United Nations have undertaken a commitment to act in accordance with Article 2 of the Charter.

1. Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

2. Affirms further the necessity:

(a) For guaranteeing freedom of navigation through international waterways in the area;

(b) For achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem;

(c) For guaranteeing the territorial inviolability and political independence of every State in the area, through measures including the establishment of demilitarized zones;

3. Requests the Secretary-General to designate a Special Representative to proceed to the Middle East to establish and maintain contacts with the States concerned in order to promote agreement and assist efforts to achieve a peaceful and accepted settlement in accordance with the provisions and principles in this resolution;

4. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Security Council on the progress of the efforts of the Special Representative as soon as possible.

well, simple dildoe what do you have to say for yourself now?

here i'll also list the violations of the geneva convention that a "special forces" soldier like yourself should know (not)!!

“Art. 53. Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.”

HERES YOUR ANSWER TO THE CRIME SHIT HEAD (DEFEND YOUR ANSWER)

“Art. 68. Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying

Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying

forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the

occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment

or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is

proportionate to the offence committed.

WELL, WE'RE WAITING, FAKE ASS LIAR WANNA BE COULDNT MAKE SPECIAL FORCES SO HAD TO LIE ON INDYMEDIA DICK WEED BITCH

hee hee hee

Systemfailure you continue to lie. Is this symptomatic of a mental condition?

Furthermore, your reading (more likely watching) of history is somewhat flawed.

First point: Chinese actions in Tiananmen Square. Yes, there was a famous picture from the time of a single protester standing in front of an armored column in order to prevent it from moving. Shortly thereafter, however, they rolled those same tanks and armored personnel carriers into the Square and slaughtered the pro-Democracy demonstrators they found there. I’m surprised you haven’t heard of it- it was on Tee Vee. Perhaps you were too busy watching Cheers.

The interesting point is that your stupid reference to Tiananmen Square is accidentally apt. There is a parallel here – photographs. You see a picture of a man attempting to stop a tank column, and you believe that everything is alright. You don’t see the same man later arrested and sent to a Laogai prison – because there is no picture of it. Similarly, in this case we are provided with three still photographs. One of Ms. Corrie standing in front of a bulldozer, one of her friends attending to her injuries, and one of her and her friends from another angle – again showing the extent of her injuries. Based on these photographs you and others have come to the conclusion that the operator of the bulldozer, with malice of forethought, intentionally ran over Ms. Corrie. There isn’t a shred of evidence to suggest this in the photographs, but taken together, and added to a DESIRE to see malfeasance, it appears obvious. What the photographs don’t show is what was happening at the time she was struck. The photographs can’t provide the noise of a heavy bulldozer, the crackling of protestors’ bullhorns, etc. Were Palestinians nearby? A collection of photographs, none of which shows the accident in progress nor the moments prior to it are not evidence. I refuse to judge someone without the evidence being in. You and your fellow animals have no problem doing so.

Second point: UN Resolution 242. You are, I assume, making the claim that the Israeli government shouldn’t be in the Gaza Strip in the first place, since the UN has said that all Israeli forces should be removed from “territories occupied in the recent conflict”(the 1967 war). An interesting point. Only problem, there’s no timetable included in the document. Now, when we have Resolution 1441 calling for ‘immediate disarmament’ and threatening ‘serious consequences’ – and you and the French don’t think ‘immediate’ means any time soon or ‘serious’ means military compulsion, how can you expect the Israelis to remove when YOU want them to? Furthermore, the Israeli army did withdraw from the Gaza Strip, and stayed out for a good long time. They only returned when the charming Palestinians started blowing up busses full of children and old people. Many of the UN-supervised refugee camps are swarming with militants, have been heavily reinforced and tunneled – all in violation of UN rules. I don’t hear you singing songs about any of this.

Third point: Geneva Convention. Art. 53 clearly proves the Israeli military’s position to be legally correct. Thanks for posting it. Minefields and tunnels to transport arms fall under the caveat: “except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations”. Art. 68 further proves the IDF’s point. A minefield constitutes a “grave collective danger”. So, again, thanks.

...it does what it is told...


...of course...it's a DOGGIE...isn't it?

Concerned;

My original point in posting to this thread was that there seems to be a rush to condemn the operator of the bulldozer as a murderer. The hysterical idiots that inhabit this site express a willingness to 'take to the streets' over what may very well be an accidental death.

I am in no way suggesting that Ms. Corrie's death is somehow cheapened by the fact that she is was a rabid America-hater. I AM suggesting that her death was made more likely by her VOLUNTARY actions. She CHOSE to impede heavy construction equipment.

Your argument over the ineffectiveness of the IDF's campaign to destroy the homes of known terrorists isn't relevant to the conversation (IDF claims that they were destroying tunnels and clearing minefields), but even if it were, it doesn't stand up to inquiry. Since the IDF began it's campaign, there has been only one successful 'suicide' bombing. Before the campaign, they were averaging one every couple of days.

Finally, why doesn't someone answer the question asked of Diogenes, but dodged by him so ineptly?

WHAT WOULD THE ISRAELIS GAIN BY MURDERING AN AMERICAN COED?

What is the motive?

Fido...you fuckin' idiot...it doesn't have to have been planned by the government to be an act of murder...

...of course...the STRAW MAN DEAL.....

Go away, Fido...go bark at the moon ya balless mutt...

;)

KPC, you gnat - then what is the motive of the bulldozer operator?

You are so good under direct questioning. I wonder, will we see any 'f-words'? Stay tuned kiddies.

...the answer is simple - the arrogance of vile men. They have always gotten away from it by being able to play the holocaust card. However, it is wearing thin. Inhumanity takes it's toll. People become dehumanized and think that no one will notice the vile beasts they have become.

Of course their is one thing even viler than the beast who commits the crime - it is the one who would try to provide cover for evil.

"The arrogance of vile men?" Whom, pray tell, are you talking about? The operator of the bulldozer? The state of Israel?

If the former, what is the motive? Just to be Snidley Whiplash moustache-twirlingly evil? If the latter, again, what is the motive? Are you saying the State of Israel murdered an American girl because they thought it was a lark?

You are making less sense than usual.

...to being on the losing end of an argument is to try to twist the words of your opponent. Cheap theatrics.

The logic of power is not a sane reaction. If you are looking for sanity in the policies of Israel toward the Palestininians you will be looking for eternity.

The logic of a driver inured to callously committing murder is no different than that of the guards at Bergen-Belsen, Auschwitz, or Treblinka. It is the insanity of a person who either takes pleasure in their work of death or has become so numbed to it that it is no longer a significant problem to their conscience. I cannot put myself in the mind of the Killdozer Driver but I can compare to a like quantity.

As for Israeli policy toward the Palestinians the short answer is they want to make their lives so miserable that they will be driven out.

"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998

"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine, Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry

Regardless of how you try to spin it Psymon you are in the position of defending Evil once again.

You should stick to quoting philosophers. When you speak with your own voice you sound idiotic. Also, you shouldn't confuse the words of Zionist extremists with the position of the State of Israel. I think such disinformation is unseemly, and your pronouncements are beginning to border on the anti-Semitic.

I will say this for the umteenth time: You have NO proof that Rachel Corrie was murdered. You just shoot your ignorant mouth off like the rest of the mob.

But this is no time for such strife, the liberation of Iraq is at hand! So be joyful, fellow American.

...take joy in murder.

hhhhmmmmm....

both sides claim to support "freedom"
both sides denounce Saddam Hussein as a monster
both sides say they "support" the troops
both sides say they want to prevent terror attacks on the USA
both sides say a war on Iraq will increase the likelihood of terrorist attacks against the USA
both sides condemn the attack on the WTC
both sides respect the "right to protest"
both sides say they want peace
both sides won't say they support a "war for oil"
both sides have never been attacked by Iraq
both sides say they want the UN to be "relevant"

one side has vioent contempt for the UN
one side is led by oil executives
one side supports curtailing civil liberties
one side used to be friends with Saddam Hussein
one side supports an attack on Iraq
one side opposes universal health care
one side used to be friends with Osama Bin Laden
one side was in business with the Bin Ladens
one side says we should stop "carping" and "get behind" the president
one side says we should go out and buy duct tape

"(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force; "

Ok, smart guys understand that secure and recognized boundaries does not mean a complete withdrawal to the '67 lines.

Understand that Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority for years and years. Understand that from 48-67 Jordan and Egypt illegally occupied the old city, Judea and Samaria and Gaza. Of course they never offered it to the Pals.

Not to mention that during black September King Hussein dealt rather strongly with Arafat and his thugs, namely he lined them up and shot them.

There never was a historical palestine run by Pals. The name was imposed by the Romans to punish the Jews. 60 years ago if you talked about Palestine it was still recognized as being Jewish.

this is nothing more than a false propaganda blitz by trained monkeys who don't know enough to get out of harms way.

Arent you going to say that IF the bulldozer driver killed her intentionally, then anyway Israel is not responsible for the "arrogance" of its people because that is a direct result of the terrorizm of the arabs which is a result of the occupation which is a result of the holocaust (and the expulsion of jews from arab countries) which is a result of those blone haired blue eyed guys in europe.
Either that or maybe arafat is responsible for terrorism that originates in his own territories.

...Only to Those with something to hide.

Well, PSYMPLEton I wanted to think about this one for a bit. Ultimately what your statement about bordering on Anti-Semitism amounts to is an attempt to silence someone who would point out an unpalatable truth.

To be Anti-Semitic I would have to hate my own ancestory, my mother, and all of her ancestors. No, Psymon what I hate is Evil - the kind of vile obscenity that those of your ilk would spread. I find your implication so ridiculous that I will not dignify it as an argument for your case. It is in fact not. It is simply an attempt to silence through intimidation. Through accusing someone of a crime for merely speaking an uncomfortable truth.

Regretfully the people I quoted were not, as you tried to misrepresent, extremists. They are mainstream Israeli Zionists. Herzl was the FOUNDER of The World Zionist Organization. Their position is extreme but not within the context of their movement.

However, I can thankfully pull up a goodly number of Jewish sources which support my position:

Gush Shalom (Israeli Peace Group): http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/index.html
(Good articles and Photos on Rachel Corrie.)

Neturei Karta - Jews United Against Zionism: http://www.netureikarta.org/

Jews Against Zionism: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

Jews Not Zionists: http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

Israel State Terrorism: http://www.israel-state-terrorism.org/

Jewish Voices Against the Occupation: http://www.jvao.org/


I take no pleasure in pointing out Israeli War Crimes. They burn deep into the pit of my soul because the people committing them are Blood of My Blood; members of an extended family with a long history. One entire branch of my family was virtually wiped out in the Holocaust. Rejection of Anti-Semitism is seared deep into my soul. However, I value truth and humanity above all else. I will not justify, hide, or make excuses for evil because it is done by those with whom I have blood ties.

"The truth is cruel, but it can be loved, and it makes free those who have loved it."
- George Santayana

"The Truth is Hate Speech Only to Those with something to hide." - Michael Rivero

As for "Scottie" your entire post bespeaks your ignorance and is unworthy of further notice.

in response to the numerous posts regarding the intent of the driver of the bulldozer: who cares?

his presence in the occupied territories has been condemned by the UN and the world, and was in clear violation of international law. he was in the process of committing a crime when he, intentionally or not, took the life of another human being.

simon, this is the point which you dodged again in response to my last post, and the one that is in my opinion most important. you DID post demonizing attacks against rachel corrie, though you sidestepped that as well. fine. if we could be punished for poor taste more than half the people on this website, on both sides of the fence, would be in jail.

but the most relevant point is this: the driver of that bulldozer was engaged in illegal actions repeatedly condemned by the UN. he was participating in the ongoing destruction of palestinian homes and, on a larger scale, in the violent oppression of palestinians living in the occupied territories. these palestinians also engage in acts of 'terrorism' which are condemned by international law, and the supposed purpose of this IDF mission was to prevent those acts. your argument about suicide bombers is specious and fails to see the bigger picture: even if they are stifled in the short term, violent resistors of israel and the west are, we have seen, patient, methodical, and ruthless. palestinian gunmen have continued to attack jewish settlements during the period you describe. beyond this, bulldozing homes does not create peace. as i have said repeatedly, and as history has shown in vietnam, algeria, and elsewhere: when an occupied population is subject to violent oppression, its will to resist over the long term grows exponentially, even if it experiences setbacks in the short term.

so IDF forces not only had no right to be there, but they were carrying out a brutish, primitive, ineffective policy as they were committing these crimes. rachel corrie's death was a reminder of how dehumanizing and out of hand this conflict has become. i don't care about assigning blame to particular people or discerning their intent. the law is clear, and the will of the world as manifested by the UN is clear as well. get israel out of the occupied territories, and stop the killing of civilians and the destruction of property by anyone for any reason. withdraw the illegal israeli settlements and end the reign of the fascist Sharon regime.

Warning the images you will see on this link are very graphic and not for the weak of stomach. However, if you want to see what Rachel was opposing take a look.

http://www.gooff.com/NM/templates/Breaking_News.asp?articleid=432&zoneid=2

P.S. Slow load on Dial-up because of the many Photos.

Yeah, I'm sorry for what happened to those people, but what is it about the Jewish people that you don't like? You seem to favor Saddam, suicide bombings, chemical weapons for Saddam, Saddam paying for suicide bombings, scuds launched against Israel, etc. Did you ever think that they're might be another side to the story. Your problem is is that you don't like Jews. I happen to beJewish and your comment disturbs me because you seem to have the same attitude as the guys who signed up to be a part of Al queda. Which if there is any Al queda reading this, you are all a bunch of pussy's who are the biggest fucking cowards to ever walk the earth. What I'm saying is that you seem to share the same beliefs as Usama and gang! That would also mean that you approved of 9/11. People like you make me wanna fucking puke! You encourage hatred towards the Jews after all we have been through. Why don't you tell your friends to stop turning themselves into bombs!

I don't give a damn.
Murder is murder. Reap what you sew and lie in the bed you made. Don't try to wrap the 'you hate me because I'm aa
jew crap. I hate callus murder and brutal bullies.
When I had a girlfriend in my 20s, she said 'I'm jewish, you know'; I said "and?..."

Murder is murder whether it is committed by a Jew or a Gentile.

Being outraged over crimes committed by the Zionists in their inhuman bestiality is not Anti-Jewish it is just moral outrage over the criminal behavior by a few who also happen to be Jews. I object to the crime not their religion. In any event many of founders of Israeli Zionism were Bolsheviks and Atheists. Kibbutzim are nothing more than Soviet Style Collective Farms as is acknowledged in the writings of some of founding members of the Israeli State. Their Jewish ancestry was a convienient fig leaf to hide behind. The actions of a few ARE bringing opprobrium on ALL only because they hide behind their Jewish ancestry.

Not all Jews support the Zionists. I suppose you will accuse them of being Anti-Semites? I don't think so. One of the Myths perpetuated by the Zionists is that all Jews support their behavior and that is simply a lie.

And don't you even dare lecture me about the Holocaust - an entire branch of my family was virtually wiped out by the Nazi Butchers. Go sell your guilt trip to somebody who was not touched by it. However, it is beginning to wear pretty thin - everytime Israel commits War Crimes the first thing you apologists do is start playing the "look at what happened in the holocaust" card. Excuse me, yes it was awful, yes it was evil, but it does not provide justification for committing crimes just as evil.

And that the Palestinian Arabs have begun to fight back in the only way they can by sacrificing their lives is the bitter fruit of 50 plus year of oppression, and attempts to drive them from their own lands. I do not approve of the killing of civilian non-combatants but if you look at what has been done to them and the outrages they suffer daily at the hands of their Israeli Overlords then one might begin to understand. No, it does not make it right but it is possible to understand their desperation and desire to hit back at their oppressors. Their is a simple solution: Cease the oppression.

As ye sow so shall ye reap.

Finally, the truth. How sweet it sounds.
Racheal was a warrior angel of justice and she will be remembered. God bless her soul.

simple stupid, once again i am going to list your bullshit logical fallacies.

1--Red herring---(distract attention from the issue at hand)
I was making the point that even though the chinese military is brutal, even they did not resort to rolling over a person with a tank.

2--Appeal to ignorance--(arguing a claim is true or false because we have no evidence to prove otherwise).
You once again, avoid engaging the argument by focusing on the photos, and not on the death certificate of a human being. Maybe the holocaust never happened because we dont have any videos of people actually being put into ovens.

3--Straw man--(a distortion of your opponets actual view or argument)
I doubt seriously if a 120 lb. girl is a threat to a 6-9 ton bulldoser.
heres the geneva convention THAT WOULD BE USED TO PROTECT HER!!

“Art. 68. Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying
Power, BUT WHICH DOES NOT CONSTITUTE AN ATTEMPT ON THE LIFE OR LIMB OF MEMBERS of the occupying
forces or administration, NOR A GRAVE COLLECTIVE DANGER, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them (The penalty for her would be arrest and imprisonment)

4.--once again STRAW MAN--(see above you dil)
I was making a comparison to the UN --US enforcing resolutions against countries violating international law.
We saw that Iraq had 12 years to comply, Israel had 35 years to comply.
ps
read the history of the creation of the Israeli state and the effect on the palestinian nationals.

5--hasty generalization (reaching general conclusion based on biased information)
Seems kinda wierd that you accept information from the fascists in charge concerning the presence of "minefields" (with no backing information) , but not on photos of a patriotic girls death..
You cant argue information both ways ( oh i guess you can)
ps
because you're an ignorant wanna be american
fucking scarecrow................

Rachel Corrie was a member of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), a Palestinian-led activist group that uses nonviolent civil disobedience to oppose Israeli policies in the territories. However, the movement's activities often put its members in harm's way.

In December 2001, 70 activists used their bodies to protect Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat's Ramallah headquarters from IDF tanks. During last year's stand-off at the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, ISM members broke into the church to act as human shields for some 200 Palestinian terrorists hiding inside.

Her organization is the same one that tried to protect the armed Palestinian terrorists who holed themselves up last year, and the same organization that tried to act as human shields when Arafat's building was being surrounded. They were not just protecting the innocent. They protected armed Palestinian militants, and terrorists whose goal is not the "liberation" of Palestinian land, but the "liberation" of Palestinian land and the destruction of Israel.

Imagine if Osama Bin Laden was in a building, and you were in a car and you wanted to ram the building to get at him, and some "protester" tried to block you by using herself as a human shield. Would you stop? You'd probably hit the gas pedal.

That day, Corrie was trying to protect a house, but her same organiation also protects Palestinian Hamas terrorists, Arafat, and every Palestinian, regarless of whether they are innocent civilians or crazed lunatics who think God will reward them for committing suicide while taking "infidels" with them.

The IDF Spokesman expressed regret over the death of the woman and said that, at first review, Corrie's death appears to have been accidental. The spokesman added that soldiers repeatedly warned demonstrators to keep at a safe distance and that the bulldozer "has small windows and a limited field of vision, and [the driver] didn't see the spot where the woman was standing."

The above explanation makes sense. Israel gains nothing by intentionally running someone over, especially an American.

However, it's almost understandable to not want to stop for someone who tries to protect those who try to kill you.

If Palestinians want Israel to leave them alone, they should call off their self-destructive intifada, get some reasonable leaders, and put an end to Hamas and terrorism. Israel would respond in kind. Perhaps when Palestinians call off their terrorist attacks, Israel will be nice enough to offer the land-for-peace deal they made a few years ago. The one that Palestinians responded to with terror and an armed intifada.

As for Corrie, there's a difference between a peaceful protester, and a peaceful protester who acts as a human shield to protect terrorists. She was someone who did both of those things. And frankly, I don't mind if someone who has protected hamas members dies.

I can understand an Israeli soldier who perhaps lost friends to terrorists not wanting to hit the brake. I bet you would, too.





Conflicting reports on Rachel Corey's tragic death

A quick comparison of the events as reported by differing sources clearly shows confusion among the eyewitnesses. No doubt these conflicting stories will only hamper the investigation demanded by US officials. Did Rachel stand, sit, lay or stummble into the path of the Israeli bulldozer? Sadly, although there are photos of her last minutes, apparently none captured the definitive moment.

from the Arab News
. . . The woman, identified as 23-year-old Rachel Corey, was lying on the ground in front of an army bulldozer when she was covered with large quantities of sand, Ali Al-Shaar, a witness to the incident, told Reuters. "The American girl was lying in front of the bulldozer when the bulldozer took sand and put it over her," Shaar said. Corey was taken to Al-Najar Hospital in the southern Gaza Strip where doctors said she died from severe skull and chest fractures. "The bulldozer put sand on her and kept crushing her," said Nicholas Dure, a fellow member of the International Solidarity Campaign to Protect the Palestinian People protest group.

from the International Solidarity Movement
. . . The Israeli Army are attempting to dishonour her memory by claiming that Rachel was killed accidentally when she ran in front of the bulldozer. Eye-witnesses to the murder insist that this is totally untrue. Rachel was sitting in the path of the bulldozer as it advanced towards her. When the bulldozer refused to stop or turn aside she climbed up onto the mound of dirt and rubble being gathered in front of it wearing a fluorescent jacket to look directly at the driver who kept on advancing. The bulldozer continued to advance so that she was pulled under the pile of dirt and rubble. After she had disappeared from view the driver kept advancing until the bulldozer was completely on top of her. The driver did not lift the bulldozer blade and so she was crushed beneath it. Then the driver backed off and the seven other ISM activists taking part in the action rushed to dig out her body. An ambulance rushed her to A-Najar hospital where she died.

from the Citizens for Fair Legislation
. . . Witnesses said Rachel Corey, from the state of Washington, was trying to stop a bulldozer from tearing down a building in Rafah, Palestine. A witness, Greg Schnabel, 28, from Chicago, said: "[Rachel Corey] waved for the bulldozer to stop. She fell down and the bulldozer kept going. We yelled 'stop, stop,' and the bulldozer didn't stop at all. It had completely run over her and then it reversed and ran back over her."

from the NY Times
. . . When the bulldozer approached a house today, Ms. Corrie, who was wearing a bright orange jacket, dropped to her knees, a practice that members of the group to which she belonged, the International Solidarity Movement, have used repeatedly, her colleagues at the scene said. As the bulldozer reached her without slowing up, she began to rise, but was trapped beneath a pile of dirt generated by its blade and the blade itself, said one member of the group, Tom Dale, who said he was standing about 30 feet away. "We were shouting and waving our arms at the driver," said Mr. Dale, who is British. "We even had a megaphone. But the bulldozer kept going until she was under the body or the tracks of the bulldozer." The bulldozer stopped for a few seconds and pulled back, Mr. Dale added. Her colleagues rushed to Ms. Corrie, who was bleeding from the head and face and badly wounded, but still breathing. An ambulance took her to Najar Hospital, where she died. She had a fractured skull and other injuries, said Dr. Ali Moussa, a hospital administrator.

from the Palestine Chronicle
. . . "She was sitting in the path of the bulldozer. The bulldozer saw her and ran over her. She ended up completely underneath it," fellow activist Joseph Smith told Agence France-Presse (AFP). "He absolutely knew she was there," added Smith, a 20-year-old student from Missouri.

Making matters worse is the ambiguous chronolgy of the photos as presented. Consider the following statements also from the Palestine Chronicle

. . . The peace activists from the International Solidarity Movement were blocking the paths of two bulldozers and an Israeli tank tearing down Palestinian buildings in the town, which sits on the Gaza Strip's Israeli-controlled border with Egypt. Smith said the group had been active for around an hour, standing on condemned structures and putting themselves in the pathway of the bulldozers, one of which had already pushed an activist against a line of barbed wire.

Arafat talks about this final solution.

Arafat's speech in Sweden in 1996.
Arafat’s speech in front of 40 Arab diplomats in the Grand Hotel in Stockholm, Sweden, on January 30, 1996. Was called "The Impending Collapse of Israel".
"We will take over everything including all of Jerusalem," he declared repeatedly. Arafat's plan has two main components aimed to cause the Jews to abandon Israel. "Within five years we will have six to seven million Arabs living on the West Bank and in Jerusalem. Arafat explained that this will be the beginning of a pressure campaign resulting within a few years in Israel's ultimate destruction. "You understand that we plan to eliminate the State of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian State. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion; Jews will not want to live among us Arabs!"

On the same day in 1993 on which Yasser Arafat signed the Declaration of
Principles on the White House lawn, he spoke the following words on Jordan TV:
"Since we cannot defeat Israel in war we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel."

After the Tel Aviv massacre on January 12th, where 2 Palestinian homicide bombers massacred 23 Israeli civilians. The PLO web site posted a statement -- celebrating the attacks:
"With faith in the calling of holy jihad," it said, "two suicide attackers . . . succeeded this evening to infiltrate the Zionist roadblocks and to enter the heart of . . . Tel Aviv and carried out two consecutive suicide attacks... These suicide attacks caused a large number of fatalities and casualties in the center of the Zionist occupation of our land. We swear before our people that additional suicide operations will occur."
That is a view with which much of Arab opinion concurs. ArabicNews.com, for example, datelined its story on the Tel Aviv attack "Palestine-Israel," and reported that the bombings had killed "23 Israeli settlers." http://www.jewishworldreview.com/jeff/jacoby011003.asp

After the disco massacre last year, which murdered 21 Israeli school girls, a German TV station interviewed the father of the homicide bomber, who showed a letter he received from Arafat, where Arafat praised and glorified his son's actions. Its good to know, Edward Herman thinks Arafat who praises when Palestinians slaughter Israeli woman and children is a man of peace. http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=countries&Area=palestinian&ID=SP23701

Following the murderous terrorist attack on Kibbutz Metzer, the PLO cold-bloodedly stated on its official website, "We will continue to strike in any place, targeting their children as well." Five innocent Israelis, including a mother and her two little boys, were butchered in that attack, all of them, Fatah said, "Zionist colonizers" killed in a "qualitative operation in the settlement of Metzer." http://www.jnewswire.com/editorial/02/11/021121_hollow_condemnations.htm

Palestinians and Arabs talks how they want to exterminate the Jews.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-120601holy.story
Sheikh Muhammed Siyam, a Hamas military leader said this. "I've been told to restrict or restrain what I say. I hope no one is recording me or taking any pictures, as none are allowed, because I'm going to speak the truth to you," Siyam said at the conference. "It's simple. Finish off the Israelis. Kill them all! Exterminate them! No peace ever! Do not bother to talk politics."

Another link to this story of Hamas calling for extermination of Jews. http://www.nctimes.net/news/2001/20011207/60241.html
At that conference, organized by the Muslim Arab Youth Association, Sheikh Muhammed Siyam, introduced as the head of Hamas' military wing, told the crowd: "Finish off the Israelis. Kill them all. Exterminate them. No peace ever."

Syrian Defence Minister Mustafa Tlass, In May 2001 stated on Lebanon television, that if every Arab kills one Jew, there will be no Jews left at all. http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/arabpress0501.html

Hamas terrorist chief Sheikh Ahmed Yassin explains that Palestinian terrorism will in the end destroy Israel and that the Islamic state of Palestine will be built on the ruins of Israel in 2027.

Shoshana Gottleib, a young, religious mother of four, who told her story, she was in was attacked by murderous Palestinian machine-gun fire by terrorists, and how bending down to put orange peels in a plastic bag, she avoided the bullet that went through her headrest. As it was, Shoshana was critically injured, her spinal cord severed, paralyzing her for life from the chest down. One of the most interesting parts of Shoshana's presentation was her revelation that the terrorists who opened fire on her were three policemen in Arafat's Palestinian Authority, a fourth, who was Arafat's personal bodyguard in Force 17, and a fifth who had been recruited with the promise of $500. One of the terrorists videotaped the attack on the van, and it was sent to Yasir Arafat. http://www.jewsweek.com/myturn/323.htm

Saudi Telethon Host Calls for Enslaving Jewish Women, Sheikh Ibrahim Mattsai said, "Muslim Brothers in Palestine, do not have any mercy neither compassion on the Jews, their blood, their money, their flesh. Why don't you enslave their women? Why don't you wage jihad? Why don't you pillage them?" Mattsai goes on to say. "How excited I was to hear a Palestinian child tell me that when he is 14 years old he will blow himself up and become a martyr... I praise those sons of Allah who give you and me martyrdom."

O God, the Jews have transgressed all limits in their tyranny," Shaik Abd-al-Bari al Thubayti prayed in a June 7 sermon on official Saudi TV2. "O God, shake the ground under their feet, pour torture on them, and destroy all of them." This and similar statements appear in a forthcoming Anti-Defamation League paper on Saudi bigotry. http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo/saudi.html

Dr. Muhammad Ibrahim Madi, a Palestinian Authority religious leader: "We will blow them up in Hadera, we will blow them up in Tel-Aviv"
"We will blow them up in Hadera, we will blow them up in Tel-Aviv and in Netanya... We will fight against them and rule over them until the Jew will hide behind the trees and stones and the tree and stone will say: 'Moslem! Servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, kill him'. We will enter Jerusalem as conquerors, and Jaffa as conquerors, and Haifa as conquerors and Ashkelon as conquerors...."
[Preacher Dr. Muhammad Ibrahim Madi, PATV, 3 August 2001] http://www.freeman.org/m_online/sep02/marcus.htm

Khalad Mashal, Hamas (Reuters, February 16):
"You have no place here, on the holy land of Palestine... You will never have security in this place, not even on a single centimeter of this land. This is a call for every Palestinian to turn into a time bomb - to fight them with every means at your disposal."
"Kill them! Allah will answer them through your means! I hope that there are those among you who will kill and be killed!"

The late Faisal Husseini, Arafat's Jerusalem representative, a man who was cultured, sophisticated and considered the most moderate of all the Palestinians, shortly before his death on May 31, 2001, expressed his true feelings in an interview with the popular Egyptian newspaper el Arav.

Husseini said: "We must distinguish the strategies and long-term goals from the political-phased goals which we are compelled to accept due to international pressures." But the "ultimate goal is the liberation of all of historical Palestine."

Explicitly he said: "Oslo has to be viewed as a Trojan Horse."

He even added and clarified that it is the obligation of all the Palestinian forces and factions to see the Oslo Accords as "temporary" steps to Israel's destruction.

Sari Nusseibeh is another supposed Palestinian moderate.
In an interview on Al-Jazeera television on July 14, translated by Memri. Nusseibeh praised everyone involved in jihad against Israel. Explaining that he did not want to pass moral judgment on the murderers when he signed a petition a month earlier calling for an end to suicide bombers, Nusseibeh said that terrorism presents no moral dilemma, it is only a question of whether or not "political benefit" accrues from killing Israeli civilians. http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo/genocide.html

One week after the Dolphinarium bombing on June 1, 2001 in Tel Aviv in which 21 people, mainly young girls, were killed, PA television carried the sermon of Sheik Ibrahim Al-Madhi. He said: “Blessings to whoever waged Jihad for the sake of Allah; blessings to whoever raided for the sake of Allah; blessings to whoever put a belt of explosives on his body or on his sons’ and plunged into the midst of the Jews, crying ‘Allahu Akbar...’
http://www.world.std.com/~camera/docs/oncamera/ocrula.html

One day after the Ramallah lynching of two Israelis, Ahmad Abu Halabiya, a member of the PA-appointed Fatwa Council, called on listeners to find and butcher Jews “no matter where they are, in any country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them.” www. world.std.com/~camera/docs/oncamera/ocrula.html

On Oct. 24, the Palestinian Liberation Army Mufti, Sheikh Col. Nader Al-Tamini, said in a television debate on the Qatari Arabic cable news channel Al-Jazeera that there can be no peace with the Jews because they suck and use the blood of Arabs on the holidays of Passover and Purim.

Just four days later, the official Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram published a full-page article by columnist Adel Hamooda titled, "A Jewish Matzoh Made from Arab Blood." It retold the infamous blood libel story of 1840 in great detail, recounting it as a documented historical fact.

The author went on to explain that the Jews' "bestial drive" to add the blood of non-Jews to matzoh is at the root of the violence. He said Palestinians are often found without a single drop of blood in their bodies.

"The most reasonable explanation is that the blood was taken to be kneaded into the dough of extremist Jews to be used in Matzohs to be devoured during Passover," he wrote.
Huh? That's the most reasonable explanation? The answer is yes to the hysterical propagandists of the Middle East.

Egyptian Television last November and Palestinian Television in 2001 broadcast A 30-part series -- produced by Arab Radio and Television, featuring a cast of 400, and aired during the second half of Ramadan this year -- "dramatized" the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Last March, we were treated to an article in the Saudi government daily, Al-Riyadh, describing in great detail the Jewish method of draining the blood of Muslim children to be used in baking Matza.

The racist lie that Jews drink the blood of Arabs into their matzah is graphically described in "The Matzah of Zion," published in 1983 by Syrian Defense Minister, Mustafa Tlas. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15098

Last June, A Palestinian homicide bomber walked into a shopping mall in a city near Tel Aviv and spotted an ice cream parlor full of children. He detonated a nail-packed bomb, that killed Sinai Keinanan 18-month-old girl, who just wanted an ice cream cone, and killed her grandmother too. Do you know Islamikaze mother, lauded the deeds of her son, butchering a Grandmother and her 2 year old Granddaughter. When CNN asked her, how she felt that he had murdered a Grandmother and 14 month old girl. She said how proud she was of her son's actions.

Here's the story of Gal Eizenman. She was murdered with her Grandmother by a Palestinian homicide bomber at a Jerusalem bus stop, after her kindergarten party. Here's her pic http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=3328 Read the great commentaries.

Last weekend, after a suicide bomber killed eleven young Israelis at a Jerusalem cafe, and a terrorist with an automatic rifle killed a nine-month-old baby in her stroller in Netanya, thousands celebrated in the West Bank and Gaza. The following night, there was an interview with the father of the Netanya killer. He was proud of his son, saying he had five more sons whom he prayed to Allah would follow in the baby-killer's footsteps. How can you deter a killer who considers murder-suicide the greatest honor in life? Israelis cannot afford to continue enduring the terrible calculus of suicide attacks. http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?enPage=ViewsPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enDispWho=Article%5El234&enZone=Views&enVersion=0&

Nina Kardashov was joyfully celebrating her bat-mitzvah, the rite of passage to Jewish womanhood, with her friends and family. The band was playing, couples were dancing. The proud twelve-year-old, resplendent in her party dress, had just appeared on the stage. Then, as the amateur videos so horrifically showed, the Palestinian gunman starting shooting and people started dying, including Nina's grandfather and five other celebrants. An hour later, another celebration took place. In the Palestinian city of Tulkarm, hometown of the gunman, cars honked their horns, men shot in the air, strangers embraced in the streets and handed out candy. http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?enPage=ViewsPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enDispWho=Article%5El451&enZone=Views&enVersion=0&! ;

When Palestinians dance in the streets after hearing that Israeli civilians have been torn to pieces and charred beyond recognition, that society is expressing a kind of collective death wish. But the bombers and shooters, along with those who funds and direct them, don't just kill Israelis. They also write the death warrants for other Palestinians. They endanger and damage their own families and friends and neighbors. Actions produce consequences, and crimes invite punishment. The Palestinian Authority armed and financed the killers. Arafat called for a million of them. Parents pocketed a payoff from Saddam. http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?enPage=ViewsPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enDispWho=Article%5El1&enZone=Views&enVersion=0&

After the massacre of men, women, and children in a Jerusalem pizzeria by a Palestinian suicide bomber, there were probably some who believed that Israel would respond with a similar act of violent bloodletting. They were to be disappointed. The F-16 missile attack on the golden-domed PA police station in Ramallah at 1:30am, long after it had been evacuated, was just a red herring, a distraction from the maneuver that Israeli forces were executing at that moment.
http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?enPage=ViewsPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enDispWho=Article%5El829&enZone=Views&enVersion=0&

That I care for the well being of tens of Palestinian cancer patients and their families is irrelevant. As a Jew living in Israel, and, more specifically, Jerusalem, I am a potential target worthy of maiming or assassination. That is the miserable nature of the Palestinian struggle for self-determination. That I am here to recount these thoughts is by sheer virtue of timing. Minutes after I passed through the Pat intersection en route to the Shaare Zedek Medical Center, bus 32 was exploded by a young suicide bomber. Almost everyone on the bus was killed, most instantly.http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?enPage=ViewsPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enDispWho=Article%5El1172&enZone=Views&enVersion=0&

I thought about the school bus massacre a month ago, where a Palestinian suicide bomber murdered 11 people and injured 50--including many schoolchildren--aboard a crowded Israeli commuter bus in Jerusalem. Killed in the terror attack were an 8-year-old, four teenagers and six adults." Reuters reports that "witnesses said they heard children who had been on their way to school screaming 'Mamma, Mamma' from the wreckage." Hamas confessed to the atrocity.

Ehud Olmert said, "Every time I come to such a site, I can't escape the thought that a living person entered the bus, and he saw the young kid of 6, 7 years old sitting, and he blows him apart. This is something that you have to see to understand how terrible it is."
The murderer's father, Azmi Abu Hilail, praised his sons actions butchering Israeli school children and said he would want his other children to become homicide bombers and murder Israeli civilians.

1. "There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies únot just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy." Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001

2. "The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".... Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

3. " [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982.

4. "The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." " Israeli Prime Minister (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

5. "When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

6. "How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.

7. "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

8. "The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.

9. David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

9a. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : "We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. "The old will die and the young will forget."

10. "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

11. "Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio. (Certainly the FBI's cover-up of the Israeli spy ring/phone tap scandal suggests that Mr. Sharon may not have been joking.

12. "We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.

13. "We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return" David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar's Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.

15. "We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai." David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

16. "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"

17. "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969.

18. "We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

19. Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. "We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters" Uri Lubrani, PM Ben-Gurion's special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From "The Arabs in Israel" by Sabri Jiryas.

20. "There are some who believe that the non-Jewish population, even in a high percentage, within our borders will be more effectively under our surveillance; and there are some who believe the contrary, i.e., that it is easier to carry out surveillance over the activities of a neighbor than over those of a tenant. [I] tend to support the latter view and have an additional argument:...the need to sustain the character of the state which will henceforth be Jewish...with a non-Jewish minority limited to 15 percent. I had already reached this fundamental position as early as 1940 [and] it is entered in my diary." Joseph Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department. From Israel: an Apartheid State by Uri Davis, p.5.

21. "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

22. "It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.

23. "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine, Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.

Support Palestinean state! Support Isreal! Support them all, but kill all the terrorists! INCLUDING HUSSEIN!

We win! We win! We win!

You liberal anti-war dictator lovers lose!

Cant wait to see all the WMD Hussein has!

Dumb Anti-war guy
-''Theres no proof of weapons, uh, i have anal with Hussein, uh, uh there is no imminient threat''
Shit in all your faces once we find those weapons!

Hahahahhahahaahaahhaha! WE WIN!!!!!

ALL THOSE PROTESTS DID ABSOLUTELY SHIT!

I really could get in an arguing match and never stop here I can tell. Maybe later.
This first part is for all those who knew her especially her parents and friends.
I know your grief is very great. I also know that you are proud of her for having the courage of her convictions.
In this world. How many of us have the courage to really stand behind our convictions?
Its a very rare thing. My friend Oro was the first to tell me about her. He knew her, and thought her an amazing person.
I really wish I could have known her in person, but now the world knows her. At a protest against the war with Iraq yesterday there were many people carrying pictures of her held high.
I need to say here, that its never in vain. Never.
I for one am very inspired and given hope(and humbled) by just knowing that people like her still exist.

Now to the other part.....
A govt. that punishes a suicide bombing by demolishing 400 palestinian homes is still considered by some to be sane and just 'reacting to terrorism?' occupying a country, making the natives of a country into prisoners with no rights, openly stating that the world would be better off without arabs, authorizing his soldiers to shoot anyone on sight who is seen to disobey or break curfew, including children,...these are not acts of terrorism yet when a child grows up in this atmosphere and knows nothing else, has no home, is shot at daily, has lost his family, and friends because they have been taken to other settlements or killed, when this child grows up and becomes violent and feels no other hope than to kill himself if he will kill others who's deaths will get media attention and maybe people will look closer.....only that is seen as terrorism?not the concentration camp mentality he has grown up in?and this is what i find so damn ironic.
That Israel is seen as the Jewish homeland, and it is pretty much a concentration camp for Palestinians more and more.People never learn.And its not suprising that the U.S. backs Israeli no matter what it does. This country was founded on slaughtering the original inhabitants and banishing their culture to 'reservations' . Very little is done about that to this day.
We're living on stolen land and the people in power today are not very different than the ones who took this land. If they could they would own slaves. So of course they condone it.
You know, at a recent protest, some people of the Free Leonard Peltier movement pointed out that
its been happening right here all along, even people with the most open minds always look elsewhere tho.

Remembering that there are people like Rachel who do learn and do have open eyes does give me hope.
Her and Julia butterfly hill.

Rachel Corrie's death does not prove the brutality of the Israeli State. In a struggle that has produced over 24,000 palestinian casualties since September of 2000, no further evidence is required to condemn the state of Israel for what it is: a religious, fascist, and apartheid state.

In earlier discussion, somebody mentioned that the house Rachel Corrie stood in front of was destroyed to combat terrorism. If this is true, and the other 10,000 homes destroyed were also engaged in terrorism, one might as well claim that every palestinian in palestine is a terrorist. The home destroyed was owned by a doctor, and was destroyed to give the wall surrounding the palestinian community the standard 70-100 meters of open ground. This gives Israeli snipers a clear view of the entire community.

The basis for the Israeli state is in fact racist, among other things. Zionists draw from the events of the holocaust the following conclusion: the only way to understand history and identity is through race, and the only way to protect your own race is through isolating it, militarily, from the rest of the world. I have never spoken to an american zionist who did not declare that all arabs were responsible for Israel's problems, and assume a racist position. The zionist movement, from its infancy, has been closely associated with terrorism, and their policy today is directly related to their overall outlook of humanity. Zionism assumes that the world will not overcome its problems, and that people cannot in the end cooperate with eachother.

Rachel Corrie could not have solved the problem by her course of action, though she and people like her are clearly brave and principled people. If you are dubious as to why she would sacrifice her life, simply read the brief account of her experiences, above, while in Palestine.

To help the Palestinian people or any other people, an international, democratic movement of the common people must take precedence over isolationist or nationalist outlooks. Fighting for a Palestinian state accepts the cynical Zionist view of life, and will not in any way eliminate territorial, economic, and resource competition. Israeli, Palestinian, Iraqi and American common people must form their own independant movement, to oppose the actions of Sharon, of desperate Palestinian youth who blow themselves up, of Bush, or of Hussein.

Hi, Im from the organization People Against the War and for Gay Rights; www.peopleagainstthewarandforgayrights.org.

Please support gay rights, I know war is occuring, but gays are tormented by figures such as Eminem each day, support the gay cause, fight back against the conservative pro-war hate-gays movement!

GAY PRIDE!

I don't care which side you're on, trying to save either of these stupid cultures/races is ridiculous. They both kill each other and they are both guilty of idiocy and horrible killings. All for desert-yeah that makes sense.

Rachael was an idiot who viewed the world through idealistic lenses that put her right in harm's way. She was not murdered. She was killed during a military operation because she was arrogant enough to believe that her right to assemble and free speech extended outside of the USA.

Well, guess what sweetie? Remember that flag that you were burning? Well, it's that flag that protected you and allowed you to have fanatical parents who could put their unbelievably naive thoughts about the world into your head. Probably wasn’t the most sagacious move burning it.

So, it's a shame America raised yet another overly liberal retard, but we did. I do feel saddened by the fact that she died, but I hardly feel sorry for her and I certainly don't want Americans to spend one more moment on trying to elevate the importance of her death. Her family should be ashamed of her hatred towards America and our ideals. I come form a long tradition of American veterans and quite frankly I’d jump in that bulldozer myself if I saw her burning the flag.

Put that in your peace pipe and smoke it.

1) It is pretty easy to hate your parents (and other ancestors), if for some odd reason you dont think that is possible you obviously have been asleep for the last 50 years.
2) My argument if you didnt understand it was that you have a chain of blame which you stop at a convenient point to support your argument.. it could be stopped anywhere.
3) you say murder is murder but you only seem to mention those murders by jews or americans and when it is by jews or americans "intent doesnt matter". There are millions of murders a year in the world and yet you focus on one?
systemfailure - you have done the same thing but mroe obviously. It was not a tank as such. the number of deaths my cars etc is probably almost as high as the murder rate per year and yet you focus on one? in china ther have probably been thousands of deaths by public vehicles hitting civilians through negligence or even by no fault of the driver.
- by the way in palistine the punishment would be draging through the town by a roap attached to a car and then hanging upside down and beating or stoning until dead. in israel it is usually "driving around them".

As to the death of rachel, ithink it was a tragic event, although it was tough to see her burning the flag. No person is qualified now or perhaps ever to call it a murder or an accident so it should end at that. It could have been a deliberate act or it may have been the result of a chaotic situation, if you specify what then you are making an assumption.that simple.You can't be right or wrong. At this point i just see people in a battle of who can prove the other an idiot. This is a very decisive issue but if you truly want to create a valid topic you would leave out all the personal affronts. I want to talk about it but how can it be productive if it's constant disagreement.

Shame on those here who say that Rachel was acting irresponsible. Shame on you here who say that she was protecting terrorists. Protecting innocent people's homes from bulldozers of fascist occupation is hardly bulldozers. She was a revolutionary, a forward thinker, a resister, an activist and a friend and contributor to the community. I attended her memorial today at The Evegreen State College (where she attended) and was thrilled to see an accurate representation. She dedicaded her life to serving the community, volunteered with numorous organizations in protecting the rights of the homeless, the working class, Muslims, etc. She has been a conscious activist since she was in the sixth grade. She has studied middle east politics in college for the last four years. That is probably much more than the commenter on this board that had called her "ignorant," or the the commentor who had called her "misguided." She knew what she was doing and why she was there. She had been to Gaza times before. She has spent selfless years trying to stop oppression and violence. However someone on this board had stated that she deserved her death. I find that sick and a complete slap in the face to her life's work, her family and her loved ones.
Rachel was a friend. She was not one to act irrational or irresponsibly. Quite the contrary. She had conviction, integrity and a will to serve.
~Shannon

by the way, thank you Jen and Dan.

Calling Israel fascist reflects the mordacious name-calling of the Palestinian and peace movements. As much as Hollywood may strive to regain that coveted "victimized" label, the new McCarthyism comes not from the right but from the left. Looking around today, I see people like you calling Israel fascist and Bush a Nazi--which, regardless of your thoughts on the Middle East, are ridiculous conclusions. Not only are they wrong, but they endanger potential sympathizers. You protesters are burning bridges to the everyday American, and that's why your numbers are sinking fast.

Update Time, kiddies.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6206548%5E663,00.html

Notice what's missing? Some photos of Rachel Corrie have suddenly gone away. Why would that happen? Hmmm, that's a mystery.

Seems like our friends at www.palsolidarity.org have decided that all the bad press they received over sheltering a known terrorist might get some people thinking they aren't just a harmless little Lefty organization.

Seems like pictures of Rachel burning home-made American flags might just interfere with their attempts at turning her into a Saint.

So into the memory-hole go the photos.

Animal Farm Redux.

As do all leftists eventually.

Sorry about the erroneous link. I meant to link to www.palsolidarity.org only. My mistake.

Way to go, !@#@#%$&^*&((*(. Whenever we conservatives don't have anything intelligent to say, we can always resort to juvenile name-calling. Great job!

Piss off, lefty! and get my name right next time.

It's funny that every single article fails to mention what the Israeli bulldozer was destroying and what Ms. Corrie was trying to protect, an arms smuggling tunnel.

And, that Ms. Corrie's organiztion has refused to condemn the homicide bombings carried out by the PLO sub-groups.

Ms. Corrie was a combatant, a human shield. You can martyr her if you want, but she hated America and hated Israel, and died for her hate, not for love of anything.

Is the ISM really interested in peace?
From http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=7361:
"If you only read the International Solidarity Movement's communiques, or the quotes of their members in your morning newspaper, you might be forgiven for thinking the International Solidarity Movement was being deliberately targeted. However, the International Solidarity Movement has been caught lying on multiple occasions.

"For instance, on the death of Rachel Corrie, activists in the International Solidarity Movement flew to the media, releasing a series of pictures on their web site. The first showed Rachel standing off to the side of an advancing bulldozer, easily visible, shouting through a megaphone. The next, her broken, twisted body. The International Solidarity Movement used these pictures to imply to the media that Rachel Corrie was easily visible to the bulldozer's operator and therefore deliberately run down; the Associated Press released the first picture with a caption that read "Rachel was run over Sunday by the bulldozer that she was trying to stop from tearing down a building in the Rafah refugee camp, witnesses said." The respected Christian Science Monitor made the appropriate inferences, writing that the picture showed Corrie "moments before" the bulldozer ran her down.

"Other media outlets did the same, buying the implied context - but, after a couple of days, the truth came out. The first picture was taken hours before the second; immediately before Corrie's death, when she was obscured by the bulldozer's blade, no photographs were taken. In fact, she was killed by a completely different bulldozer, a model with much smaller windows.

"One shouldn't be surprised by this deceit. Anyone able to stop on the way to help a critically-wounded friend in order to snap a couple of propaganda shots isn't above falsifying the facts of her death."

Thanks for letting us indoctrinate you.

..."meom"?

When I first read about Rachel Corrie's death I was saddened that an accident like this happened, but the more I learned about it the more I realized that she was the cause of what happened. She deliberately put herself in the path of a bulldozer and the driver obviously couldnt see her. She was too stupid and arrogant and thought she could hold everyone else hostage with her body. he was wrong.

The world is better off with one less Rachel Corrie in it. At best she was a fool, at worst she was evil and in league with terrorists. I'm glad she is gone. At the very least, the average IQ of both Gaza and Washington state has moved up a notch or two.

When you're gone, the average IQ of the world's population will increase astronomically.

I was so sorry to hear about Rachel's untimely squashing. She could eat pussy with the best of them. She will be missed.

Perfect.

http://users2.ev1.net/~file13/ready_ps_poster.jpg

Yes, I love the killing of civilians, too. I am a conservative.

What do you know?

Looks like the ISM has a problem with aiding and abetting terrorists again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,947846,00.html

What a surprise.

This is an American confess that terrorism comes from Israeilies, and that Muslims in Palestine are just deffending themselves and their land.
Islam says that a muslim must fight only who takes his land, or who fights the spread of Islam.

So its perfectly acceptable to attack those who don't want to practice Islam?

That's a heck of a moral system you got there, bub.

It is not acceptable to do what u said.
What is acceptable is to fight those who prevent others from practicing their beleives freely.

"What is acceptable is to fight those who prevent others from practicing their beleives freely."

I that case, talk to some of your Arab and Muslim brethern. Some of those countries in the Middle East won't allow Jews or Christians to practice their beliefs within their borders, and go as far as to not allow the possession of a Bible or the Torah. What do you say? Will you fight for the right of Christians and Jews to practice their faith in these Middle East countries?

http://www.islamdoor.com/Terror.htm

I want to make this very clear to those who want to know whether or not Islam is a peaceful religion. Many will say that I have misrepresented these passages from the Qur’an, and that the Qur’an limits these punitive measures to ‘Allah.” I wish my conclusions were wrong, however, I am afraid they are not. Consider the following:

“Let those then fight in the cause of Allah who would sell the present life for the Hereafter. And whoso fights in the cause of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, WE shall soon give him a great reward.”

“And why should you not fight in the cause of Allah and for the rescue of the weak men, women and children – who say, ‘Our Lord, take us out of this town whose people are oppressed, and give us a friend from Thyself and give us from Thyself a helper’.”

“Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the cause of the Evil One. Fight ye therefore, against the friends of Satan; surely Satan’s strategy is weak.”

“Hast thou not seen those whom it was said: ‘Restrain your hands, observe Prayer, and pay the Zakat.’ And when fighting is prescribed for them, behold a section of them fear men as they should fear Allah, or with still greater fear; and they say ‘Our Lord, why hast thou prescribed fighting for us?’ Say, ‘The benefit of this world is little and the Hereafter will be better for him who fears Allah; and you shall not be wronged a whit’.”

“Wheresoever you may be, death will overtake you, even if you be in strongly built towers. And if some goods befalls them, they say, ‘This is from Allah;’ and if evil befalls them, they say, ‘This is from thee.’ Say, ‘All is from Allah.’ What has happened to these people that they would not try to understand anything?

“Fight, therefore, in the way of Allah – thou art not made responsible except for thyself – and urge on the believers to fight. It may be that Allah will restrain the might of those that disbelieve; And Allah is stronger in might and stronger in inflicting punishment.”

“O ye who believe! Fight such of the disbeliveers as are near to you and let them find hardness in you; and know that Allah is with the righteous.”

“Verily, Allah loves those who fight in HIS cause arrayed in solid ranks, as though they were a strong structure cemented with molten lead.”

(Qur’an 4:75-79, 85; 9:123; 61:5)


“Fighting” is “prescribed” by Allah! But what kind of “fighting?” This is very important. It should be very obvious to every honest reader that the “fighting” of these verses is physical, carnal warfare. For example, he speaks of “selling this life for the hereafter.” He speaks of being eternally rewarded because of being “slain” in battles for Allah. He speaks of “rescuing weak mean, women and children.” He criticizes those who urge others to restrain their hands (from fighting) and focus only on spiritual acts like “prayer” and paying the “Zakat.” He condones those who “fear men as they should Allah.” He goes on to identify their “fear” as the fear of “death.” He also identifies this death as physical death. He tells them that since they will die one way or another, that they should, therefore, “fight in the ways of Allah.” He tells them that if they will fight, perhaps Allah will “restrain the might” of their disbelieving enemies. How can this refer to anything but carnal warfare.

One reason for Mohammed’s views about the use of physical combat in the advancement of Islam comes from his misconception about the end of the Mosaic age. From the following you can see that he used the example of “fighting” in Moses’ day to defend the practice in his day, and for future generations. He wrote:

“And fight in the cause of Allah and know that Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.”

“Who is it that will lend Allah a goodly loan the He may multiply it for him manifold? And Allah receives and enlarges. And to Him shall you be made to return.”

“Hast thou not heard of the chiefs of the Children of Israel after Moses, when they said to a Prophet of theirs, ‘Appointment for us a king that we may fight in the way of Allah?’ He said, ‘It is not likely that you will not fight, if fighting is prescribed for you?’ They said, ‘What reason have we that we should fight in the way of Allah when we have been driven forth from our homes and our sons?’ But when fighting was ordained for them, they turned back except a small number of them. And Allah knows the transgressors well.” (Qur’an 2:245-247)


Mohammed’s conclusion was that since God “prescribed” and “ordained” fighting for the Jews (in the conquering of Palestine, and in the punishment of the godless nations), then his followers must fight as well! This is a terrible misuse of Moses’ example, and a dangerous misapplication of divine orders. We are not under those Old Testament instructions to “go in and take possession of the land flowing with milk and honey.” Those instructions were given to the Jews of old, and they were fulfilled under the leadership of Joshua. They were not given to Mohammed, and they are not intended for us today.


You have heard President Bush say the religion of Islam one of “peace.” He lied. It is not. The Qur’an gives specific instructions that those who do not confess Allah as God and Mohammed as his messenger are to be put to death. You are infidels. You must die.

“Why do they hate us?” They hate us because they hate themselves. They have for centuries blindly followed a false prophet named Mohammed who has lead them to nothing but poverty and despair, and without a hope of spending eternity with God.

Hey man, first of all, we r not also allowed to enter Palestine, even Palestinians r not allowed to go back to their own home!!! 2nd, Christians do whatever they want and practice their religous rights on Arabic lands and nobody fights them. Whereas, in some of Europian and western countries, Muslims r not allowed to practice their own rights. For example, Muslim women r being annoyed 4 just putting a scarf (hijab)......

My freind Chris, In all the passages that u have picked from the holy Quraan, non says that Muslims must fight jews, it says that they must fight those who disbelieve in Almighty Allah. Now, I do believe that jews believe in Allah, So they r not included. But the only reason muslims r fighting jews nowadays is that they r occuyping their land and r murdering innocent people including Christians like in our case here Ms. Corrie.
Today Muslims are not allowed to fight those who stand against the spread of islam as long as they don't harm us, because nowadays, there are many ways islam can be spread by, like the www, which we r using right now. However, we r always obliged to fight those who fight us and occupy our land and kill our brothers and sisters.
And if prophet Mohammad is false as u claim, then why are ur preasts following him ( http://thetruereligion.org/priests.htm)
And if he was false, then how could have he predicted all these things that we r witnessing today, knowing that he was born in a desert 1400 years ago. (http://www.it-is-truth.org/it-is-truth/ModernScience.shtml )

And u want us to stay calm and say nothing!
ha?

So guys u couldn't find anything to reply to Mou's messages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bullshit
bullshit
bullshit
bullshitbullshitbullshit
bullshitbullshit
bullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshit
bullshitbullshitbullshit
bullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshit

...is wastin' her time.

There is no operator in the cab, and the engine is not running.

Maybe she's upset the dozer is blocking her view of the lovely date palms.

"get this fucking bulldozer off my face......."

"why can't I feel my legs?"

"where are my legs?"

"what is that squishing noise?"

She was a true martyr, a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle so why the continued interest?

Can't see what the continued debate is all about.

How could U do that!!!!!?????

Man, how could u know that their is no operator? And maybe he is hiding afraid from this great woman.

And i think u must do a much more greater job than wasting ur time here coz u have a great ability that nobody has. I mean how could u hear the sound of engine!!!?

Look at the photo. The operator sits in the cab on the centerline of the vehicle. No silhouette, so no operator.

"And maybe he is hiding afraid from this great woman."

And maybe he's down the street getting a shwarma.

I can't hear the engine from a photo, but I can see that the rain flap on top of the exhaust stack is closed. Even if the engine was idling, the rain flap would be open at least a little. It's not, so the engine is not running.

So, Mohammed, there's no big trick involved in seeing there's no one inside a bulldozer whose engine is not running. It's called "observation". Try it sometime.

So now U want to say that this dozer is for palestinians and that the woman is an actor? Right?

And u forgot to say that the land is for Israelians, and that the woman is taking the land from them.

Man, U must have some sense in what U say.

This kid must be taken to Hollywood.
Right?
He is a great actor.

I agree. Not only are they good actors, the Palestinians need to negotiate. They need to negotiate thier ass to the East side of the Jordan River where they belong.

Israelians also must move way back to Rusha and Germany

Mo,

The land belongs to whoever can conquer and defend it.

Mo,

The land belongs to whoever can conquer and defend it.

Mo,

The land belongs to whoever can conquer and defend it.

Originally posted by nottoday:
"Mo,

The land belongs to whoever can conquer and defend it."

Ok, now u r saying the truth. Good 4 u to confess at last that Palastine is not urs, and that u r the intruders.

So, stop saying that muslims are terrorists coz they r trying to take back their own land that was conqured by Israel.

The land belongs to whoever can conquer and defend it. I'm glad you agree.

The best thing the US could do would be to untie the hands of the IDF and let them march into the West Bank and Gaza and gun down every fuckin towelhead in the area.

They won't do that, so Israel is doing what it should, which is to build a wall to keep the Israelis safe and the terrorist Palestinians out.

I have never said that the land belongs to whoever can conquer and defend it, because the land belongs to Allah(God) and only to Allah. Palastine is not 4 jews, and the only reason they r there now is Belfore's promise that was given to them by Britain in order to get rid of their evilness in urope. I am not saying that all jews are evil. Evillness is found in people everywhere despite their religion. But I don't know why jews think that they r the choosen nation by God and that other nations r just there to serve them!!!????
Haven't God created us all equal and gave us brains to think?

I want to make something clear 4 all of u guys. As I have said before, I don't hate any human being who doesn't harm me or stand against God. So, if i was living in the same place with a jew or a christian or with anybody of any religion, I must respect him and deal with him fairly as if i'm dealing with any other muslim coz God obliges me to do so.

God says: "God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers." (Quran, 60:8)

God also says: "Whoever kills a soul, unless for a soul, or for corruption done in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one, it is as if he had saved mankind entirely." [Qur'an 5:32]

So, I will not be applying God's order if i kill innocent people. I can just live with anybody as long as he doesn't take my home and as long as he doesn't fight against God.

I want to make something clear 4 all of u guys. As I have said before, I don't hate any human being who doesn't harm me or stand against God. So, if i was living in the same place with a jew or a christian or with anybody of any religion, I must respect him and deal with him fairly as if i'm dealing with any other muslim coz God obliges me to do so.

I want to make something clear 4 all of u guys. As I have said before, I don't hate any human being who doesn't harm me or stand against God. So, if i was living in the same place with a jew or a christian or with anybody of any religion, I must respect him and deal with him fairly as if i'm dealing with any other muslim coz God obliges me to do so.

I want to make something clear 4 all of u guys. As I have said before, I don't hate any human being who doesn't harm me or stand against God. So, if i was living in the same place with a jew or a christian or with anybody of any religion, I must respect him and deal with him fairly as if i'm dealing with any other muslim coz God obliges me to do so.

"So now U want to say that this dozer is for palestinians and that the woman is an actor? Right?

And u forgot to say that the land is for Israelians, and that the woman is taking the land from them.

Man, U must have some sense in what U say."

No, I wanted to say that there is no operator in the dozer and it's engine wasn't running. No more, no less. You might try some sense sometime yourself.

Mohammed also wrote:
"Originally posted by nottoday:
"Mo,

The land belongs to whoever can conquer and defend it."

Ok, now u r saying the truth. Good 4 u to confess at last that Palastine is not urs, and that u r the intruders.

So, stop saying that muslims are terrorists coz they r trying to take back their own land that was conqured by Israel."

Make up your mind. You say the so-called Palestinian land was conquered by the Palestinians, and then you say it was by the Israelis. Well, guess what? Revise history all you want. The fact is Israel conquered the disputed territories in '67 when attacked by, what 5 nations?...and handed them all their sorry behinds. They have since successfully defended it. Guess it belongs to Israel, huh?

Also, he says there is no terrorism in Islam. Perhaps you'd care to share this bit of good news with Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, AL Aqsa, and all the other Islamic extremist groups that exist solely to kill infidels? Plus all the mullahs and imams that preach death to unbelievers every Friday. I'm guessing they got all that nasty stuff from the Quran, and haven't just made it all up. What do you think? Where did all the "convert or die...preferably die" stuff come from?

Finally, Mohammed says: "As I have said before, I don't hate any human being who doesn't harm me or stand against God." Good for you! Too bad that attitude isn't shared by most of Islam's religious and political leaders. The world would be a much safer place.

nope
by nottoday • Monday August 11, 2003 09:47 AM



Mo,

The land belongs to whoever can conquer and defend it.

Okay, kindly post your home address. I will come to your property and attempt to conquer it. If I do, I own your house. Idiot.

That's work for you to do.

"The land belongs to whoever can conquer and defend it."

Show me in history one example where that is not the case.

What a scared little pussy. What's the matter? Are you not able to defend your land? Or did you finally comprehend how asinine your (il)logic is?

>>The land belongs to whoever can conquer and defend it.

>Show me in history one example where that is not the case.

Come on. How hard can this be.

Come on. Post your home address. How hard can this be?

19575 River Road
Gladstone. OR 97027

Come get me!

Let me expalin it in a way that even you can understand.

Or government currently claims as it's own land that which we call the United States. If China were to land ships on the California coastline and their military fought and conquered what we call the USA, and they were able to fortify and defend it, then the land would belong to them.

Are you able to comprehend?

Thought I'd go knock a couple around over near Rivergreens Golf Course. Any takers?

Rachel, the fool, defended monsters. She's dead. Oh well.

those Palastinians are monsters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They destoyed their own homes.

it is from inside Palastine.

not from 'Godzilla'

If I were a Palestinain, I think I'd trot my ass over to the east side of the Jordan River where It's safe and where I belong.

"those Palastinians are monsters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

Actually, there's really no such thing as a "palestinian". That's only a contrived term for the Egyptians, Syrians and Jordanians who murderously try to get land from Israel after Israel quite rightfully defeated their countries in 1967.

History has no memory of these people you speak of.

End the arab occupation of Israel!

End the shit occupation of Caducada's head!!!!

One of U has previously said that the land is 4 who conquer and defend. So that was a clear confess that the Israel came and conqured. So go tell Israelians to go back to Rusha and Germany.

The main point i want to clear out is that the LAND, any land, belongs to God and only to God. So however lives on it doesn't own it.

God says in the Quraan:

And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allâh) said: "I know that which you do not know." (Al-Baqarah 2:30)

"One of U has previously said that the land is 4 who conquer and defend. So that was a clear confess that the Israel came and conqured. So go tell Israelians to go back to Rusha and Germany."

That's right, they conquered it and now it is theirs. If you want it, conquer it back.

"God says in the Quraan:"

No, God didn't. The Qu'ran was written by Mohammed, a man. Mohammed was not an inspired anything. Mohammed was a false prophet and Islam is a false religion. Mohammed is currently burning for eternity in Hell.

God says in the Quraan:
And We sent not before you (O Muhammad SAW) but men to whom We inspired, so ask the people of the Reminder [Scriptures - the Taurât (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel)] if you do not know. (Al-Anbiya 21:7)

And We sent not before you (O Muhammad SAW) but men to whom We inspired, so ask the people of the Reminder [Scriptures - the Taurât (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel)] if you do not know. (Al-Anbiya 21:7)