Today we were part of an historical event.

While they may not have been as huge as the demonstrations Los Angeles and San Francisco, the demonstrations in Orange County had a great turnout! When we left Laguna Beach around 11:30, there were already about 100 people gathered. I don't know the numbers for the Hart Park rally and the march to the Orange Plaza, but it looked like at least 600 people.

In case you were unaware of this, Orange County, California is staunchly conservative, mostly Republican.

Some of the interesting "dialogue" from pro-war individuals whom I encountered during the day:

"Against International Law? Screw International Law! We're not part of the world, we're the United States!" (while I was explaining that a pre-emptive attack on Iraq was illegal according to International Law)

"They're all the same" (in reference to Arabs and Muslims when I explained that the Iraqis had nothing to do with September 11th).

"Wipe that smug smile off your face! People died so that you could march here". (I was smiling because I was pleased to be in a group of so many like-minded people, all desiring peace). I believe it was a city permit that allowed me to march there, and I doubt that the city required a human sacrifice, but what do I know?


View more photos taken in Laguna Beach and Orange at http://www.dangerouscitizen.com/F15.html

photo taken by Gordon during the 2/15/03 rally at Hart Park in Orange - traffic circle.

It's happening.
Thank you Sister J and michael scott.

The Orange County Register reported today that over 1,200 people participated in the rally and march in the city of Orange.

I need to put in a correction on the
numbers at Hart Park in Orange.

We had an early count of 1,200 or so,
but both the big local papers counted
us at 2,000.

The tv coverage was mostly given to
a pro-war rally in Seal Beach of about
100 people, but the major print media
actually treated us pretty well.

--GJ

-Many people/official and even police said that the numbers were in the thousands but perhaps an exhaggeration and I only thought in the hundreds. We were pretty spread apart though.
-For the opposing minority was for the most part on the side of the street that the anti-war demonstrators were. And the gentleman in the cub scout uniform was intermeengled with us, and I don't think got his point accross being so close us and all.
-A very peacful rally/march, w/no police intervention on the peace-goers side; however the for-war demonstrators accross the street which kept going into the street.
-the For-war demonstrators showed up after most of the people were in the park or had left.
-I think that it is so great that Oc did something on F15 and any numbers are great!
-Well done Everyone!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi,

I was so amazed at how much hate and anger pro war people have in their hearts. One "gentleman" said he would love to see nuclear war come out of this. How can people be so misguided??

Yeah! I wanted so much to be participating with my fellow peace lovers in Orange County, but a family emergency kept me away physically...although I WAS THERE IN SPIRIT. All we are saying is give peace a chance.

Yeah! I wanted so much to be participating with my fellow peace lovers in Orange County, but a family emergency kept me away physically...although I WAS THERE IN SPIRIT. All we are saying is give peace a chance.

Great work Gordon and Vangee and everyone else who worked to build this demo! Congratulations to you all. I had a great time.

Keep waging Peace!

Jim Gibson

"Wipe that smug smile off your face! People died so that you could march here". (I was smiling because I was pleased to be in a group of so many like-minded people, all desiring peace). I believe it was a city permit that allowed me to march there, and I doubt that the city required a human sacrifice, but what do I know?

Has anyone else read this? This person clearly has no understanding of our nations history. Its too bad that the freedom of speech doesn't exclude comments like these. I'm sure Jay Leno may have ran into this person before on the Jay Walking segment. Com on, what do you mean that no one died so you could march? Remember that little event called WWII? Did you ever read about it? Why aren't I writing this in German, Japanese, or Russian. Whoever wote this should stop watching Joe Millionaire and American Idol and start paying attention to what is really going on and maybe read up on history. Why not catch up on how the American Government works. You may desire peace, and thats fine, but you also indirectly support Saddam which = murder, blood, terror, hunger, and poverty, etc. You sure don't support America. All yeah, both of my grandfathers fought in WWII so you coulld march there. I should thank you because until I read your comment, I did not truly understand how stupid you peace protesters were. You probably never even voted.

Thanks for your comments, with your help maybe I can forever rule Iraq as long as I put down all of those opposed to me, you can come to my palace anytime and have a beer.

You didn't clean up after our
LAST kegger!

..nahh, it wasn't Saddam, he don't even drink...it was ol' Pineapple Head himself, Noriega, that party animal!

Wank: "Its too bad that the freedom of speech doesn't exclude comments like these. "

This person clearly has no understanding of our nations history.....

I love communism. Thats why all the communist countries combined can never match the economic might of one capitalist country, AMERICA.

You dirty neo-nazi, commie loving, america hating, anti war protesting freaks of nature will never learn. True, America makes mistakes, you guys LOVE IT WHEN AMERICA FUCKS UP.

But what happens when we make one? Do we just give up and leave the situation to correct itself, or do we go in and fix the problem? Do we focus on every single mistake America has made?

In your view, we can't do anything, because America is flawed, but I suggest otherwise, that Americans such as you make America flawed.

I know what you're going to say. You're gonna give me some bogus statistic on weapons, civilian deaths, etc, that AMERICA, not the poor dictatorships in the world, has committed.

To this I say SHUT UP, and les fix the mess that you peaceniks have made.

"bloody hands on anti-war protesters"

Oops, a Freudian slip!

Lets bomb that evil dictator

Bush is bringing one last UN resolution to the Security Council next week. Guess what, it will soon be time to kick Saddams ass and liberate Iraq. 12 long years after the Gulf War, and we'll finally finish the job we promised to the victims of Saddam. We will free them soon and we will soon see them cheering as they will soon discover freedom. I'm sure some of you would want to wait another 12 years for Saddam to comply or blow us up, but I don't think that will happen. I'm very thankful that at least a strong majority of us support the elimination of Evil. Sorry, people, but this isn't Vietnam, you won't have to run to Canada or worry about that next bad trip. You won't even have to worry about protesting that long because the war will be over in a few weeks. You must be praying for a long war so you have something to do. Don't worry, We will be taking out North Korea soon after we liberate Iraq if they fail to follow the rules. I would show up for a pro war demonstration, but my schedules all filled up. Can you tell me how you all find the time to show up in support of evil dictators?

Aren't you gone yet?

Yeah, lets kick Saddams ass, you made an excellent point. I fully support the war against Saddam.

Get rid of Saddam

Impeach Bush.
Arrest Bush.
Try Bush for treason and murder.
Hang Bush.

Sometimes I run across a post that echoes my own
feelings. like this one.
Direct Action - a 911 inquiry
BH 6:18pm Mon Feb 24 '03 (Modified on 6:40pm Mon Feb 24 '03)
article#46079

After considering how alternative summits have been held as a form of direct action, it seems to me that the best form of Direct Action at this time is not doing futile things that will actually play into the hands of the far right, such as cutting rail lines, but rather launching a
911 investigation.

In recent days I have listened as the debate as turned to turning
from protest to direct action, and most of the direct action I have
heard proposed sounds not only futile, but also counter productive.
Cutting rail lines only plays into the hands of the far right, and is the
kind of futile gesture that could land people in jail while for the most
part the war goes on (as you might notice, everything is already in
place for the war). As well the far right can easily manipulate this
kind of direct action to alienate the public at large from the protests
against the war. Certainly some types of direct action proposed by
anarchists (or agent provacteurs) that call for torching things and
smashing businesses is not going to do anything but marginalize
the peace movement. Politicians are not afraid of this type of
anarchy, but would actually welcome it. I am not against the
anarchist philosophy, which says that basically everyone is equal
and there is no such thing as a powerful person, and these
divisions in society are meaningless (do the powerful still use the
crapper like everyone else?) However torching a building, or even
cutting a rail line really doesn't accomplish much at the end of it all,
is mostly a symbolic gesture, and is already to late to stop the war
in any case, and can also play into the hands of the far right and be
used to polarize public opinion.

Now you might notice that a night club burned to the ground and an
inquiry was started immediately. You might notice that the space
shuttle blew up, and an inquiry was started immediately. You
might recall that over a year and half has gone by and no 911
inquiry has started. There was this gesture of starting some white
washed investigation by appointing Henry Kissinger as the 'chief
investigator' but that didn't fly, and now we are all so busy and all
so distracted by the war that the whole issue is basically on a back
burner.

Now why has there been no investigation. The reason is that 911
is the Achilles heel of this current administration, and could even
constitute grounds for impeachment. But for some peculiar reason
the left and the progressives just do not want to go where they
obviously should have gone long ago, always hurling out that
accusation of 'conspiracy theory', even though it obvious that the
administration is worried enough about the potential impact of a
911 investigation that we just aren't having a 911 investigation, as
you will have noticed.

Now I am aware of all the truly strange sounding theories that are
flying around, that are unlikely to go anywhere, lacking any proof,
and just being unfounded assertions. For example there is the one
about the 'remote controlled plane' which was steered into the
towers from the ground. Then there is the one that states that all
Jewish people were told to stay home from work on 911 and not
go into the towers (false). And then there is the one about how
the towers were mined with explosives and brought down by a
controlled demolition. Then there is the one about how the
Pentagon was fired upon by a missile by the military. And the list
goes on.

Now what qualifies as a 'conspiracy theory.' Anything for which
there is no evidence other than wild speculation certainly counts
as a conspiracy theory. Could still be true one might suppose.
After listening to the torrent of lies being told in these times, what
isn't possible after all? (Just last night Perle stated that after the
invasion of Iraq they 'will find Saddam's weapons of mass
destruction' and I have no doubt that they will, this being just the
kind of devious dishonesty and ungodly conduct that this
administration is capable of - compare it to placing the suspect
against the wall and then planting the cocaine on them, after which
they will get charged with trafficking in cocaine. People have gone
to death row in just this way, for God's sake, and certainly this
administration, based on its dishonest conduct in recent times, is
more than capable of planting a little cocaine on Saddam).

However some things are a lot harder to do the Nixon thing with
and just lie, and lie and lie to get out of it. I want one question
asked and one question answered during this 'alternative 911
investigation'. Why was it the case that at the Genoa summit there
was such great concern that a suicide bomber was going to use
civilian air craft to bomb the summit that a) Genoa was surrounded
by anti-aircraft batteries b) civilian passenger jets were restricted in
where they could fly near the summit, at the risk of being blasted
out of the sky c) George Bush did not stay in Genoa but instead
retired to Navy ship, bristling with anti-aircraft guns d) Ashcroft
swore off civilian passenger aircraft during the summer after
receiving an FBI threat assessment e) the administration knew, a
month in advance, that something like 911 was imminent and yet
sat on their thumbs and did nothing, such as beefing up airport
security, which would have done the trick.

In brief, why was 911 allowed to happen?

There are two possible explanations, neither of which is palatable
to the Nixon white house, which is why there has never been any
911 inquiry, and why the Republicans will continue to stall a 911
inquiry, until hell freezes over if they can. The first is that the
administration is so grossly incompetent as to defy understanding,
in particular when they displayed such competence at Genoa. The
second is that they were waiting for 911 to happen just for the
simple reason that they knew that the entire far right wing agenda
would suddenly come out from the shadows off in the fringes and
go main stream, as it has, you might notice. This would also
explain the peculiar behavior of George Bush, on the day 911 took
place. People have made note of the fact that he really didn't seem
that alarmed and that is reaction was inappropriate. But then they
had been waiting for it all summer, sure and certain of the fact that
this was just the ticket they needed to install a Nazi like regime in
America, and do all those dreams of the extreme right wing, such
as finally at long last shredding the bill of rights, the constitution of
the United States, and they would also have a free hand to do all
those wars they had been longing for over the years. And they
were right...

And the 'left' and the 'progressives' were wrong. They have a
huge network, and are able to mobilize mass demonstrations,
which in the end, prove to be useless (they mass demonstrated
all throughout the Vietnam war, you might remember). And they
can't even get their shit together, spot a golden opportunity, and
impeach even one Republican administration, before it is too late,
and your nation is completely destroyed by the hawkish right wing.


Now before the reactionary left springs into action and rallies
around the Nixon white house, I thought I would point out to you
that 'analyzing the failure of our institutions' is the White House
strategy for deflecting any 911 investigation. The end result is the
rebirth and installation of the Total Information Awareness
program, probably on an even broader scale (the excuse here
being that 911 was an 'intelligence failure', which is ridiculous, and
then there is that other idiotic thing about how it was an
institutional failure, since apparently people are so stupid that
when they know someone is going to crash planes as flying
bombs, and they know it months in advance, doing a simple thing
like beefing up security like Israel's El Al does, well, you really
need to revamp your institutions, bring in Total Information
Awareness, make everything more intrusive, more Hawkish,
because apparently people are just that idiotic. This kind of so
called 'leftist' thinking will get everyone royally screwed, as for
some weird reason they rally around the Nixon white house, and
try to split the left with their idiotic theories about 'institutions' being
to blame for American citizens being bombed on 911, while those
same institutions were able to save Ashcrofts ass, and kept Bush
cozy and safe at Genoa.

The reason there has been no 911 inquiry is because no one has
thought up some perjury to use as an answer to the questions I
just asked above, which, if the left and the progressives are
thinking, means that these are the questions to be asking. Go ask
them. See what they say in reply. come on. Go do it. I will excuse
those 'leftists' who are feeling, even now, the urge to rally around
the Nixon white house, and will leave them to start kicking up a
cloud of dirt, perhaps help to initiate total information awareness,
which is the end result of their efforts. I just want a simple answer
to the simple questions posed above. so go on and ask them.
Let's hear that wonderful answer of theirs. They've had a year and
half. No one though of anything yet.

and FOR GOD'S SAKE don't be stupid enough to 'write your
congressman'. Something this radical will have to be a grass roots
thing. Congress will only move to impeach this administration
when the pressure rises at the grass roots level.

So go on. Ask them. And while you are at it, ask yourself, too. Ask
your friends. Ask them, why is there no 911 inquiry. Then ask
them the questions above. What's the answer. Gross
imcompetency? I don't think so. They were to competent when it
came to protecting Ashcrofts ass, and much to competent at
Genoa. go on. Ask yourself, ask your friends, and then ask your
congressman, if you want to panic them, but don't expect any help.


If the left fucks this thing up, you deserve to spend some time with
the Nazi regime, which is progressively is what is happening to
you. YOu also deserve to live with the five hundred thousand
civilian casualities of innocent Iraqis in some third world wreck of a
place (with lots of oil) that, you know, is just that much a clear and
present danger to you that it needs to be invaded by the extreme
right wing, and right now too. Just the other day, Rumsfeld was
once again talking about 'human shields' in preparation for the
massive casualities the American Military Industrial complex is
about to create in Iraq.

You deserve what is going to happen to you, if you do not do what
obviously has to be done, and take DIRECT ACTION by
impeaching this administration. Certainly they are capable of just
telling one perjury after another, as everyone who is thinking in this
place already knows. Certainly they are capable of blowing little
babies to kingdom come. Certainly they are more than capable of
destroying American democracy and shredding everything
America has always stood for, replacing it with their own hawkish
vision of world domination and a constantly worsening police
state. And certainly people like this are capable of sitting on their
thumbs for a few months, waiting for 911 to happen, so as to
empower that hawkish agenda of theirs, and put into motion their
fore ordained plans to attack Afghanistan and Iraq (neither of which
has anything to do with 911 itself, 911 was just the ever so
convenient tool used by the Nixon white house to bring the
extreme right wing into full power).

SO FOR GOD'S SAKE WILL YOU PEOPLE DO THE RIGHT
THING AND ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. Resist all attempts to
split the left with phony 'analysis' of your so called 'flawed
institutions' and just start asking the right questions and IMPEACH
THE NIXON WHITE HOUSE.

http://www.awitness.org/journal/index.html

Rush and Bill Rule

Those aren't Chicken Hawks, those are Chickens!

yeah, they talk like hawks, but they are obviously chickens to anyone with a brain..

...or half of one in Pvt. Fido's case....

I'd like to send a prayer out to the people of Iraq as they are likely to have to endure years more of Saddam Husseins abusive regime if the French and the asshole peaceprotester win.

And hold up your pro war signs any time you want.
See you this saturday. Any city, U.S.A.

I didn't think you would win, I was just kidding. I'll let you dumbassed hippies go out and freeze your asses off by yourselves while I watch Saddam get his ass kicked live via satellite on the news. Its a good thing that the majority of people in the world know what is best. They base their decisions on the facts concerning the situation, not what party is in power. I'm not going to argue with you, after reading your comments, I noticed that you fall into that category of Anti-Bush, Pro-Arafat, Anti-Conservative, Anti- Republican.

nah...we're just Anti-Johnson...and what's this "freeze your asses off"...this is LA Indymedia, you fuckin' idiot.

Slogans and dogma is your only resource.
You have no clue.
This is California, we don't freeze.
Go on, keep watching the box of illusions
where I hear survivor is on.
So I hear because I don't need the pacifier
to tell me what to think.