Over the past few days I have had a few conversations with anarchists and have been called nothing but middle-class liberal scum, mostly because I did not agree or I had questions with the way that some anarchists do things. I just wanted to know what is middle-class to anarchist? What definition are using to dictate who is middle-class, or liberal scum? I consider myself to be a revolutionary and have more than done my part at demonstrations and organizing events to raise awareness of socio-political events. I would not consider myself middle-class, elitist, liberal or any other term that has been used to describe me. I do have some problems with the way that some people approach things but I do not just sit back and criticize I do go out and participate in as many actions as possible. I was there in seattle getting tear gassed, I was there at the DNC in LA. I did not have the privelage, time or money to travel to genoa, ottowa, quebec city, nor will have the privelage or time to travel to NEw york but I will be there in spirit. My concern is that anytime that you bring up a question or criticism with any anarchist about the way that they approach things they shut you out and call you a liberal. They always say that they will be organizing the working-class and I consider myself to be working class because I do not make much money and work a lot, but yet I do not see anyone trying to organize where I work. I have tried and still try to get people who I work with to raise their conciousness and see that they have the power to become organized. I do not like the fact that the tendecy is to dismiss people just becuause they might not have the same viewpoint as you, I believe this is the same thing that the governments we are all trying to fight are doing. You then become the thing that you are trying to fight. I am not criticizing all anarchists because I have and still do work with anarchists, I just want to know what is middle-class and what is liberal and who is the working class, because it seems you dismiss the people working at Wal-Mart for $7/hr, the people who work in the big chain resteraunts for minimum wage or anyone who is not working in the glorified working-class factories as people who are not working-class. SO who do you organize? I am sure that the attacks I recieve I will be called a liberal, bouergeoise, elitist, and a whole bunch of other nonsensical terms. I will be laughing again and again as I work my ten hour days and then go to events and see the same people that call me liberal and elitist. I hope to hear from some of you.

maybe it has to do with your underlying philosophy, not necessarily the activities in which you engage, or your job, or whatever? that seems to me to be the thing that divides people around this stuff. not so much who are you working to organize, but rather, what are you organizing them for, what systems does your approach and philosophy support/challenge? maybe when you talk to anarchists, they pick up on differences between their underlying philosophies and objectives and yours, and that's why you aren't able to connect, despite your efforts to work for change.

I'd ask: are you engaging in a direct challenge of the underlying value system of capitalism in order to dismantle it, or are you working to change modes of production/exchange within the same capitalist context--which, anarchists might argue, ultimately still serves the same purpose of capitalism's push toward ever-more effective production and exchange? this seems to me to be the basic difference, and why anarchists might not be open to "liberal" agendas whose underlying philosophy still serves the systems they claim to be challenging. one approach seeks to dismantle, the other seeks to reform. that's a pretty big difference in objectives, one bound to cause conflict no matter what your approach. because when you think about it, even capitalists want to "reform" capitalism--re-form it to be ever-more efficient and profitable. and so they have the same conflict with anarchist challenges to capitalism.

I don't know, that's just some simplistic ideas about it.

Hey COnfused!
Perhaps people are accusing of having attitudes that are typical of middle-class liberals? Ya know, the sort of people that believe that you can reform the system? You certainly say that in this comment:
http://la.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=14117
In the same comment you attack anarchists for not having jobs, being young, for yelling about class-war all the time and for not working "within" the system and for causing a ruckus.
Sounds like you don't want a revolution.
No one really cares what class you are! Props to the middle-class and upper-class class traitors that think the system sucks.
Anyway, all this talk about what class you are is rubbish. Fact is the BB did a great job in support of the C.I.W.
You moan about how no-one will organize your workplace and then spend all your time complaining when anarchists are out there doing something. Here's a hint: do something yourself. Stop complaining about other people not doing it for you.

I don't understand how "COnfused" can get frustrated at people for calling him middle class (without actually knowing him) when he did the exact same things to the anarchist posters and assumed there age and that they did not work and were middle class... I suggest both parties in this name calling start discussing what really matters (the pointless mud slinging about class,age is a waste of time espically over the internet!!!)

Most of the anarchist I know have jobs and havn't you ever heard of the IWW? Most of its members are anarchists and try to organize the work place in a non hierachal setting. Maybe if more people like you were interested in organizing the work place and would become more educated about anarchism then you could work with groups like the IWW, and others and help to organize!!

I think you should go to some anarchist meetings and learn more about it. You might be suprised by the intelligence and amount of organizing that actually goes on. you'll be happy to see no single person dictating or any party line being followed and the intense sincerity of these young activists!! its about being comfortable enough with yourself and your comrades to make your own decisions and act on them...

Or maybe it's because most "anarchists" are just as dogmatic, and sectarian as anyone else.

Boy... have I met a great number of "HOLIER THAN THOU" type anarchos who think they know everything. Look around you idiots... NO ONE IS FOLLOWING YOU! Why do you think that's so? Because you're so correct and the working class is too stupid to see how enlightened you are?

All the anarchists i've meet think they ARE the movement. I've got news for you... you are only a PART of the movement... and a very SMALL part at that.

You could be influential... if you'd only come down from the clouds and start listening, learning, and acting with others.

Thanks for responding in kind to some of my questions and I do think that it is a difference in the basic philosophy and that is sort of my point in the idea in the differences that we have. I am down for a revolution where the workers take over the businesses and the power is brought back to the people, I have been working for change and do not criticze all anarchists. I do work with plenty anarchists and have had many intellegent conversations with them, but I see that most of them make generalizations like anyone else and they are not any better than any other group because when you do not accpet people to have differing opinions you become the same thing that you are trying to fight. In a hypothetical situation when revoulution had occured and some large group of people that participated in the revolution did not agree with the way that the society was going in and then anarchists stood up and put down that movement wouldn't they become what they did not want to become? I do not know and this is all in theory I just wanted to know what exactly they are working for because I have a difference in philosophy and I am not a liberal sympathizer.

I consider myself a middle class anarchist,and I feel most anarchists,at least if they are fairly well read on the subjects of anarchist thought,are very aware of class struggle issues.Many people call themselves anarchists,but if you talk about people working at walmart for 7 bucks an hour being the enemy,you really don't see the big picture.What I would define as being a "real anarchist" would be someone who knew the corporate structures and people responsible for the administration of these structures are the things that need to be changed.This is the fundamental change that needs to happen,which will affect the people captured in the wageslave system who are forced to work for shitty wages and devote their lives to working for almost nothing and never get ahead or really be able to pay their bills.Anarchists are involved in the alliance for sustainable jobs and the environment and other worthy projects.One question I have is are anarchists better off attending major street protests,or working on community building projects to empower the citizens around them?Maybe both? Just keep reading more information on anarchist thought,the more you know,the more you are able to critique and address issues that need critical thought.Talking to a wide variety of people from different viewpoints is very important.Not all anarchists want to attend street protests,alot of them just read and communicate ideas to other people and this is something very powerful that the state has a hard time repressing.Anarchism is merely a attempt at a label and an attempt to define something,one of the only thing most anarchists can agree on is the meaning of the word anarchism,no goverment,no rulers.Thanks for listening.

Look, I put a story up so it would hopefully inspire more people to get into organizing, struggling, and helping the farm workers out. I frankly don't give a fuck on how you want to do that, but at least that you are DOING. Unfortunatly, instead of DOING, people found it a perfect time to try and discredit the bloc, and in response bloc sympathizers are discrediting the discrediters. No one is convincing each other on changing their points of views. So instead of clicking on 'Respond to this article', go send a email to tbboycott@yahoo.com and ask how you can get involved, cos obviously if you have enough time to keep writing responses to each other, you have time to organize. You don't like what the bloc does, so what, go do something else. Stop crying for Taco Bell and start making them pay for what they have done to their workers.

-Rampage