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Zogby Poll Shows Support for R2K/D2K Protesters

by Reuters Thursday, Aug. 24, 2000 at 5:12 AM

A national poll shows widespread sympathy for R2K/D2K protesters.



[Note -- these are surprisingly good numbers and they give proof our movement has an enormous base to draw on. Let's get to work on our100 million supporters!]

Monday August 21 4:45 PM ET

Convention Protests Bring Mixed Reactions

UTICA, N.Y. (Reuters/Zogby) - Protests outside the recent Republican and Democratic national conventions drew mixed reactions from the public, a recent nationwide poll shows.

In a Zogby America survey of 1,004 adults, 32.9% said they were proud of the protesters, while another 31.2% said they were wary.

Another 13.2% were sympathetic and 15.7% irritated while 6.9% said they were not sure.

More Democrats reported feeling pride (38.2%) compared with 36.3% of independents and 24.3% of Republicans. Another 21.2% of Republicans were irritated compared with 13.9% of Democrats and 11.5% of independents.

Younger Americans felt more pride than older respondents did, with 41.1% of 18-29 year-olds and 42.5% of 30-49 year olds compared with 32.9% of 50-64 year olds and 18.8% of those ages 65 and older.

Those with more education also were more supportive, with 35.8% of those with some college education and 35% with at least a college degree expressed pride compared with 26.4% of high school graduates and 22.6% of those who never finished high school.

What we asked:

``When you see news accounts of protests outside of the Republican and Democrat conventions, are you sympathetic, wary, irritated or proud?''

============================================================
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Fuck Your Stinking Polls!

by No name Thursday, Aug. 24, 2000 at 11:12 AM

Polls. Isn't that what we're against. We don't need Zogby polls to do what's right. Screw that!

Somebody has a confidence problem.

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NoPatience

by Guy on the Mount Thursday, Aug. 24, 2000 at 12:42 PM

Chill Out. Information of any sort is power, and justice denies NO ONE.

Let's be grateful for some insight, from whatever perspective. Besides, this seemed generally positive.

Onward to Global REvolution

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Problem with Polls

by Choronzon Thursday, Aug. 24, 2000 at 2:14 PM

The problem with polls, in general, is accountability. How can the average Joe on the street assure himself that the pollsters are being honest? How can he be assured they are not just fabricating numbers for their high paying clients? There is no way to know. The figures sighted above could be way too low, on the other hand they may be way too high.

Generally, it looks to me like the Republicrats are trying once again to manipulate the media to make it look like they are reforming themselves - responding to the concerns of the protest movement - when nothing could be further from the truth.

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By the numbers

by Maverick Thursday, Aug. 24, 2000 at 2:15 PM

Polls can be used to prove anything. 80 percent of all people know this.

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Behind the poll

by Edwin Johnston Thursday, Aug. 24, 2000 at 3:22 PM
edi@hal-pc.org

What the poll reveals to me is that everyday people are aware of the social strife in this country. The people voting positively for the demonstrators empathize with them due to their own fear of their local police. The people who are wary likewise are fearful of what is going on. They just don't think that the anarchists offer the solution.

Overall, everyone recognizes the changes going on. Some want to do something to organize it in a more humanitarian manner, while others feel stifled by it all. The answers to the poll bode ill for the ruling class.

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Beneficial lies

by Jeremy David Stolen Thursday, Aug. 24, 2000 at 5:02 PM
fellow_traveler@mailcity.com

As you might have heard, there are lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics. It is true that they can be made to say anything.

Still, I see nothing wrong with taking a short moment to feel good about this poll--many non-activists who see it might go from "sympathetic" to "proud" if they know they're not alone.

Also, politicians pay attention to polls. Nixon admitted that he did not escalate the Vietnam conflict further in the early 70's because he knew it wouldn't go over on the domestic front.

But our work as activists isn't about polls. It's about change. Let's give this news a thumbs up, but go right back to work.

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Interesting...

by TheNewOhioGreen Thursday, Aug. 24, 2000 at 5:56 PM

While I can appreciate the nature of polls, that being that it's always a study of the 1,004 people who have nothing better to do than answer a poll at the mall or over dinner, this still delivers a suprising message.

38% of a group of people in support of us? That's shocking, frankly. It doesn't fit in with the "movement has fizzled" stories the Washington Post carried at all.

The majority, the vast class of people not getting the majority of the money, believe in and support the same kinds of things we do. They *are* us, minus that critical class, experience, or upbringing that pushed us into caring enough to put our time and sometimes our freedom on the line.

But, they've suffered through decades of being told that they can't effect politics, and that the bad guy always wins. They've got us to the point that people only follow speed limits for fear of a ticket. They've got us convinced that Republicans are assholes and Democrats are lieing, cheating, condencending, holier-than thou assholes. It's no wonder Bush leads in the polls...

Oops, I said it again, in the polls.

You know, the other day a polling agency called me at home. I'm afraid I did what I do with every telemarketer, I hung up right away.

I'm a Nader voter.

I wonder how many other Nader voters did the same thing...

5% indeed...

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Fuck the Polls?

by Michael Everett Thursday, Aug. 24, 2000 at 9:39 PM
ia728@primenet.com

First as to No Name who said "fuck the polls, isn't that what we're against?" Why would we be against polls or any other mechanism that asks the public to express their opinions and then publishes those opinions? Polls are a form of democracy. When we look for consensus in a meeting, it's a form of polling because we're asking each person where they stand on a particular issue.

Zogby, Harris, Gallup, etc. are businesses that depend on the integrity of their polling methods to stay in business and make a profit. If someone inside Zogby is cooking the numbers or making them up and then blew the whistle to the public, it would be a disaster for Zogby.

The poll was simply the results of asking a particular question over the phone to 1000 people. Sure, the numbers are somewhat skewed because the question was limited to those with phones, those who answer their phones, those who cooperate with the poll, etc. etc. and you have to take that into account when you read the results.

Accuracy of polls are easy enough to test by measuring their predictability of election results, and they have a pretty good track record.

For a movement that's only been in the public consciousness for less than 9 months, I think these are pretty good numbers, but I wouldn't read too much into it. The question asked respondents whether they sympathized with us, not whether they understood or agreed with our message. My guess is plenty of people don't have a clue what our message is, but they support our right to deliver that message without police repression. In the past few days I've talked with a number of mainstream people who've said how much they hate the cops, but don't really have a problem with the political system. Actually, I'm kinda amazed at how widespread the resentment against the police is.

Michael

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A Means of Control

by No Name Friday, Aug. 25, 2000 at 1:08 AM



Because Michael in the US of today polls are used as a means of control. Think of a lab researcher planning ways to "educate" his lab mice to act according to certain socially/politically acceptable standards/forms of behavior. They can be, and often are, used as just one more weapon in the behavior modification arsenal of the powers-that-be.

Paranoid delusion....doubt it at your own risk!
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RE: Means of Control

by Edwin Johnston Friday, Aug. 25, 2000 at 2:05 AM
edi@hal-pc.org

The Y2000 Amerian Glossary

http://www.boomerbible.com/Glossary.htm

Polls. Various mechanisms for determining the will of 260 million Amerians by calling a few hundred Amerians on the phone and asking them a number of leading questions about matters that have been splashed all over the mass media for a few days or more.

Mass Media. The collective organ of communication—including television, radio, newspapers, magazines, books, and movies—responsible for informing the Amerian people about what their feelings should be when the pollsters call.

Feelings. The most egalitarian of all human forms of expression and therefore the only one which matters in a democratic society.

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Means of Control

by Michael Everett Friday, Aug. 25, 2000 at 5:06 AM

No Name -- polls are used for whatever you want to use them for. In the case of Zogby, Harris, etc. they're used to make a profit. Some polls use trick questions or slanted methodology to produce a desired result. A poll is no more and no less than the question asked and the methodology used.

Here in Santa Monica where workers and community are fighting a bitter battle against the big hotel owners to pass what will be America's most radical living wage law, both sides have spent good money for private polls to see how to frame the issue for the coming election. The results are kept secret and they will influence our Fall campaign to win the living wage. It's a very tricky issue and we can't afford to misjudge the public perception. Like it or not polls are an essential tool in waging mass campaigns.

Michael

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Believe what you wish

by No Name Friday, Aug. 25, 2000 at 10:00 AM



Believe what you wish. I am not going to loose any sleep attempting to convince you otherwise.
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Who Owns the Pollsters?

by Choronzon Friday, Aug. 25, 2000 at 6:41 PM

How can the average Joe in the street be assured that Harris, Zogby, et. al., are not covertly owned and operated by the same big five corporations as the most of the mass media?

How can he be assured the these corporations give a damn whether these "subsidiaries" make a profit as long as they are useful for maintaining the status quo through the manipulation of "public opinion"?

Of course, "vox populi" is probably the biggest superstition of all - valid only on the most micro-slices of history.

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Who Owns the Pollsters?

by Michael Everett Saturday, Aug. 26, 2000 at 3:06 PM

As to who owns the pollsters, I don't know the answer, but it's a good question.

I go on the assumption that they're businesses whose overriding goal is to turn a profit. If their credibility and impartiality is called into question by a numbers cooking scandal, their bottom line will be severely damaged. Gallup has a reputation to protect that goes back to the 1930's and I doubt if they'd risk it all by a throwing a poll just to satisfy someone's ideological agenda. Pollsters don't need government favors to keep in business -- they just need some telephones, a database, and some underpaid workers.

Further, if they are cooking the numbers, how do we account for polls that show results that go counter to the corporate agenda? Check the internet for examples.

Polls are crucial for testing opinion in a mass society. Socialist countries have used them as well. If you just rely on your own circle of acquaintances to guage public opinion, obviously you'll get very skewed results.

Michael Everett

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Read this and tell me if it makes sense.

by Sam Friday, Sep. 15, 2000 at 12:33 AM
ssoleimany@aol.com gimme a break FBI Headquarters

I'll be the first to admit that polls are for the most nothing more than vast generalizations that scew real life scenarios into easy to digest info-turds. Especially when you ask such simple questions to only a thousand people...BUT...I will also admit that despite all the bashing protestors have received in the media whether it be our "leaders" speaking, editorial commentators, or even the selflessly impartial news anchors (har har...you thought network anchors were bad, did you catch FOXNews?) a good amount of those people polled said they were "proud" of the protestors. Now...this doesn't really mean anything significant except for one thing...even under the barrage of propaganda, people in this country have some idea of what's going on, some notion of what's good, and that's what any movement should be built upon. Involvment with the general population that starts with outreach. Now, it must be remembered however, that these sort of public opinons have been shaped by only the shallowest coverage of protest events. With the momentary exception of Seattle, the corporate media seems to think it's better just to mention protests just a bit and demonize them in a small concentrated amount, than to give them lots of coverage. In other words, if they play protests off as being insignificant, they will be perceived as insignificant. That sounds nice now, but if the movement reaches greater heights of involvemnent with the general population, then there will undoubtedly be a more concentrated effort to demonize, villify, and marginalize this movement. There is only one way to innoculate the public against that kind of nonsense...and that is outreach through education about the movement, what it stands for, and what it means for the lives of those we're trying to educate. It's the people that can understand that who will turn on the TV and see what the media presents as "news" as being little more than sensationalist horseshit. heh heh heh...

Report this post as:

Read this and tell me if it makes sense.

by Sam Friday, Sep. 15, 2000 at 12:34 AM
ssoleimany@aol.com gimme a break FBI Headquarters

I'll be the first to admit that polls are for the most nothing more than vast generalizations that scew real life scenarios into easy to digest info-turds. Especially when you ask such simple questions to only a thousand people...BUT...I will also admit that despite all the bashing protestors have received in the media whether it be our "leaders" speaking, editorial commentators, or even the selflessly impartial news anchors (har har...you thought network anchors were bad, did you catch FOXNews?) a good amount of those people polled said they were "proud" of the protestors. Now...this doesn't really mean anything significant except for one thing...even under the barrage of propaganda, people in this country have some idea of what's going on, some notion of what's good, and that's what any movement should be built upon. Involvment with the general population that starts with outreach. Now, it must be remembered however, that these sort of public opinons have been shaped by only the shallowest coverage of protest events. With the momentary exception of Seattle, the corporate media seems to think it's better just to mention protests just a bit and demonize them in a small concentrated amount, than to give them lots of coverage. In other words, if they play protests off as being insignificant, they will be perceived as insignificant. That sounds nice now, but if the movement reaches greater heights of involvemnent with the general population, then there will undoubtedly be a more concentrated effort to demonize, villify, and marginalize this movement. There is only one way to innoculate the public against that kind of nonsense...and that is outreach through education about the movement, what it stands for, and what it means for the lives of those we're trying to educate. It's the people that can understand that who will turn on the TV and see what the media presents as "news" as being little more than sensationalist horseshit. heh heh heh...

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