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Protection from CHEMICAL/POLICE WEAPONS.

by Lakota Friday, Aug. 04, 2000 at 11:57 AM

Police will have dragons breath air toxin, pepper spray, high velocity pepper spray ball guns, smokeless flash bags, weak nerve gas agent, various disrupter ammunition, rubber wooden and plastic bullets, various unlisted and classified explosives, Smokeless sponge round bombs. Learn proper protection methods.

errorExcuse the spelling in the document... I suck.
______________________________________________________
Weapon: Dragons Breath

Use/Description: Sprayed on an individual, a small vile of this horrible chemical agent can disperse any unruly crowd. The targeted protestor is sprayed then re-released back into the crowd. The scent he emits triggers a repulsive reaction in the brain of protestors. Will cause rapid dispersal. There are 3 differnt kinds of Dragons Breath(each kind reacts differntly with differnt people, on kind may may one person panic and another not care, if all 3 kinds are used EVERYONE will be effected). Once Dragons Breath is put on a person it is VERY HARD to get off, and person will reek horribly for several days, making contact with person nearly impossible.

Protection:
-Unknown nuetralizing agent that all police carry, applied like sunblock just under officers nose. Officer is now immune to the smell.

-Soap that can remove Dragons Breath. Only the Police have this, if you want to get this stuff off you have to turn yourself in or wait it out.

-Lots of Clothing Layers. Always good, Dragons Breath smell wont be on you for as many days if it never touched your skin when initially applied. GET OUT OF THE CLOTHES ITS ON QUICKLY AND CAREFULLY. Be carful when removing clothes to make sure contaminated areas of clothes don't touch your body... and once out of the dragons breath clothes... THROW THEM AT A COP!!! :) Then he will know what its like :)

____________________________________________________
Weapon: Pepper spray

Use/Description: All police will carry a large amount of pepper spray. Expect this Chemical Agent to be used most frequently. Pepper spray can be shot on a person from distances up to 15 feet with smaller cans and with large backpack canisters up to 35 feet in a spray hose like manner. Pepper Spray burns the eyes, causes rashes on the skin, skin irratation, ear irritation, scalp burning, running nose and SEVERE DISCOMFORT. Do not get anywhere on body, it really does burn everywhere; especially if your skin is sensitive.

Protection:

-Clothing Layers. Use it!

-Masks. Gas Masks (overkill but better safe then sorry), anything that covers the body and cant be soaked through.

-Goggles. Prolly the most important.

___________________________________________________--
Weapon: Pepper Spray Pellets, Pepper Paint balls, Red Pepperball

Use/Description: These are fired from high powered paintball rifles. Paintball rifles have an adjustible velocity range that can go from 200 feet per sec to 1500 (depending on weapon, fuel, and ammo size). Paintballs are DANGEROUS. A paintball can break noses, deafen ears, blind eyes, and bruise everything. When filled with pepper spray and shot at body the liquid will penetrate the clothing and cause burning rashes on the skin causeing severe discomfort.

Protection:

-Ear Protection. Use it if they start firing.

-Mask. Gas Mask is no longer overkill... in fact if they fire these GET ONE ON! Or a hard mask with no air holes... doesn't really exsit... hmmm, you'll figure out a good mask, but paintball mask are ineffective! The screen on the front of them makes the liquid spray in your face (not good when the liquid burns!)

-Alternative Clothing layers. Normal clothes might not work in protecting you from skin contact with the liquid. Due the viscosity (sp) of the liquid and the speed in which you are hit, the pepper spray will prolly soak into your clothes. Use gortex (sp), windbreakers, and other non-natural fibers that don't absorb liquid.

____________________________________________________
Weapon: Tear Gas, Weak Nerve Gas and any other visable dispersive gas.

Use/Description: Prolly not gonna be used because the risk to delegates and civilians, however the LAPD has PLENTY on hand... so there is always that chance. Causes vomitting, tearing, running of the nose, severe irritation of sinus senses, and general panic.

Protection:

GAS MASK: BRING ONE... Bring two, the guy on the ground next to you crying and screaming may appriciate it.

Goggles: necissity

____________________________________________
Weapon: 40 MM Exact Impact Smokeless Sponge Rounds

Use/Protection: The LAPD has over 1400 of these babys in stock, just for you. Im not sure on the exact effect of the weapon, but I know its purpose. The Exact Impact Smokeless Sponge Rounds provide a flashbag like bang that can stun, render people unconscience, and disperse people quickly in panic. Shot from a grenade launcher looking device, these provide a HUGE advantage for the police, they can now fire explosives that do damage into the crowd without smoke effecting the police or the 'innocent bystanders'. This also prevents the media from being able to photograph they're use as easily due to the fact that they dont leave unattractive war-like scenes behind them that were so highlighted at WTO. Now a camera has to photograph the explosion itself (quite tricky). THESE ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE USED THEN TEAR GAS.

Protection: NONE... RUN LIKE HELL. I recommend good running shoes (but no nike or anyother multi-national corporation!!!).

________________________________________
Weapon: Rubber, wooden, and plastic bullets

Use/Description: In WTO these horrible weapons were fired in peoples faces at close range, knocking out teeth, breaking cheek bones and doing a wide variety of extreme pain. These can peirce your skin and often do! They are bloody and painful, do not underestimate these. I don't know the likelyhood of use, but it hopefully wont happen.

Protection:

-THICK CLOTHING LAYERS: helps alot

-Face protection: Cops will aim at your head!

-Body protection: Anything you can think of, BUT DO NOT WEAR A BULLETPROOF VEST. In the state of california ANY CRIME COMMITTED WHILE WEARING A BULLETPROOF VEST IS A FELONY and jail time is increase by ALOT. DON'T DO IT!

___________________________________________


Ok, anything anyone wants to add go ahead, in the comments. This is my experince from demonstrations and personal experience, I do not claim exact accuracy of anything. In fact, do your OWN RESEARCH AS WELL!



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Holy shit.

by warcry
warcry@chickmail.com

Thanks for the update. Needed that. Looks like we have to dress for success. I'ts no joke. They're waging low intensity urban geurilla warfare on us, just like they've been trained to do. Is using pertoleum jelly on your skin a deterrent to the stinging of tear gas and pepper spray? Also, do you think running into the media would help? At the very least, the media getting gassed provided for some decent coverage during WTO. We really have minimal protection and maximum risk here. Let's get some priests and people in wheelchairs to be in the frontline. Seriously. They tried that in the 60's I heard. We're all in this together after all. Anyone dressed in black is an obvious target. But someone in a wheelchair is harder to shoot. Of course that didn't stop them in Seattle. Black Block in wheelchairs? Geting your face shot up is no laughing matter. I hear cardboard under your clothes absorbs some shock. I think the more we engage the media, and institutions, (surpirse them!) and the less we're actually static - the better off we'll be.However, for the purposes of civil dosobedience, we're going to have to have some serious cameras on our asses just to not die. The American press may suck corporate and governemnt dick bigtime, happily, but there's some hope with the European press. They'll be there. I urge surprise appreances and timing surpises as our best bet in terms of avoiding police overkill. Mass convergence can be done with the protection of the legal marches. Freedom of motherfucking assembly. It's our constitutional right you government bitches. You know who you are you Nazi wanna be fuck. This is what democracy looks like. We know what we love and what we're fighting for. It's not to support your weapons, your money or your racist hatered and corruption and bottomless greed.
Don't make your bravest children bleed for a democracy. Reward them with the voice they deserve in the furure of their country and their lives.That's how you diffuse our anger - if that's what you're interested in doing. I'm afraid the State is not interested in diffusing our passions. They want to punish us for having any.
Well, FUCK you.

Warcry
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Thanks Lakota!

by Durruti

Thats some amazing information you got. Thank you so much. And you definitely saved my ass, for i was going to wear a BP vest. So the LAPD got the order for the Pepper Chemical Paint Balls? There was a rumor about that, so i guess its been confirmed. Do you know if the anti-Bullet Proof Vest ordinance extends to any type of armor, such as a Baseball catchers armor? Catchers armor would be pretty ideal in these situations, since the police are trained to aim for your shoulders, thighs and chests.

I bet the LAPD are getting a little scared now that a bunch of Phily cops were beaten and hospitalised. Just a word to the cops, who im sure are monitoring this list. If you dont get violent, we wont get violent. Were not out to beat up cops, who are just misguided class traitors. So if you stay nonviolent, we will as well.

And Warcry. Are you the Warcry hosting so many of the workshops at the NAAC?
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One more thing

by Durruti

I just wanted to point out a couple things after reading Warcry's post again. Jellies DO NOT protect you from the gas or spray. Its just a rumor going around. Many of my friends tried that in Seattle with vasoline and toothpaste, and it just traps the spray and gas and just causes further irritant to the eyes. So far, the best way to counterect is Vinegar soaked rags and water, lots of water. Also, the using of disabled and children and elderly on the front lines as a deterrent against police assualt will not work either. It worked for a time in the 60's, but many of the 70's and 80's actions have cops disregarding them and assaulting them anyway.
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Petroleum jelly

by sarin
sarin@devo.com

No, ptroleum jelly will make the tear gas worse by trapping it. Tear gas works by instantly enflaming your sinuses. Contact on the skin doesnt matter so much as mouth, nose and eyes. Even if you aren't breathing it in, you can be affected.

And what ever happened to the idea of sields? I recall in Philly there was much talk among anarchists about using shields for defensive postures (cheap ones made from cut up plastic garbage cans or lids).
Also if you look at footage from European or Japanese demos, the organized use of shields is quite widespread. They march in formations with them ala the old roman "turtle" method - the front row protects faces while the back rows raise the shoelds over head.
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Shields sound like a good idea...

by Monday

I read an e-mail which was a review of London's mayday celebration, and they talked about what they called "safety banners" or something like that. They were 15 or 20 foot long tarps with 2x4's (with handles) attached and were used as a physical barrier between the cops and protesters. Painted up nicely, they are just another banner. Apparently the police surrounded the protest and had it closed off, and they used these things to push a hole in the police lines and get out. Built properly, they could roll up and be quite mobile, and be very useful for a situation where the police lines need to be broken (e.g.- DC's prison/industrial march where hundreds were arrested in a street which was blocked from both sides...) I'm not saying that we should just show up in L.A. with these things, but it seems like a good idea to bring up, and I think people should think about them tactically.
Peace out kids
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What ever happened to Non-violence?

by Quiet Hand Monday, Aug. 14, 2000 at 8:40 PM
quiet hand@aol.com

I am saddened and surprised at some of the rhetoric and threats here. In my opinion, it is smart to be as well protected from such atrocious weaponry and practices as you can, though it is a far different thing to resort to violence. I heard of people stringing lines to take cops off motorcycles and bikes in Phillie... that's just as horrendous as what the cops are doing.

We need to understand that if you want change, you must have the courage to not submit to the temptation of acting like those you are judging; else you are a hypocrite, and do more to hurt than to help the situation. Those who damaged property in Seattle did certainly increase media coverage. Unfortunately, they also provided the quick and easy dismissal of the value of the message that sound-bite media longs for. DON'T DO IT. If you are too sensitive, angry or easily provoked, you don't belong doing this work. Help with support or learn to create media channels. The key is media, and to present a united, literate and reasonable front the most jaded critic has to stop an wonder at. There have been scenes of this caliber at the last few events. We must just be patient, insist on coverage, and the day will be won.

(We must also provide the media with well-reasoned, well-researched position papers, with sound-bite length statements or demands that do not trivialize the complexity of the issues)

We cannot halt violence with violence, nor oppression with oppression. We need to have the courage to be leaders here, and put the meaning back in DEMONSTRATION.... let's demonstrate that which we wish to inspire.

Feel free to contact me with questions or comments. Peace and prayers for each of you.

Quiet Hand
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We don't want another Kent State

by Rick Hart Tuesday, Aug. 15, 2000 at 12:16 AM
rick@rickhart.com 972.562.4551 706 W. Hunt St., McKinney, Texas 75069

Please think about what Quiet Hand just said. The hardest thing to do is to NOT trade harm for harm. Sure, a lot of police hope that they get some violence out of you, and if you do become violent, you know the police will put on a show of intense violence and act like the victim. Then the next protest might start off with more intense police violence. Remember the Ludlow Massacre? Kent State? Then what?

It took years to shut down the lie that was Viet Nam. Years to reach some civil rights. Keep the long road. It's the only one that goes somewhere. And please keep it nonviolent.

Rick Hart
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Re: Protection from CHEMICAL/POLICE WEAPONS

by Justin Tuesday, Aug. 15, 2000 at 10:00 AM
jed@rootmedia.org

This is in response to an article written by "Lakota" entitled "Protection from CHEMICAL/POLICE WEAPONS", which can be found at http://la.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=250.

Lakota,

First, could you please post sources as to where you are getting your information (regarding both the chemical weapons and proper protection/treatment). Basically readers should know where this information is coming from so that they can decide whether or not to trust it, and also so they can do their own research. I know you say at the bottom of your post that you don't claim complete accuracy and that we should do our own research, but distributing information about how to protect yourself without knowing for sure if it is the best method (or even an effective method) is irresponsible and has contributed to much of the misinformation and rumors spreading around out there.

Secondly, in regards to the recommendation of using goggles as protection against tear gas and pepper spray, a clarification must be made. Not just any goggles will do. To protect your eyes against tear gas, goggles MUST have a proper seal. "Shop goggles," the large plastic ones used commonly in workplaces as protection against saw dust, etc. will not do the trick. All those i have seen have vents in the side which will allow gas in, and even with those vents taped up, i doubt an adequate seal could be established. While it is possible that the shop-type goggles might provide SOME protection against pepper spray, sealable goggles (e.g. swim goggles) are the only type of goggles that will protect your eyes from both pepper spray and tear gas.

Third, running is never an appropriate way to prevent injury. Running in mass demonstrations increases the likelihood of injury and causes panic. Walking swiftly in a controlled manner is a much more appropriate way to get to safety without contributing to more injuries or panic.

Fourth, you recommend Gortex as a "non-natural [fiber] that [doesn't] absorb liquid" to be used as a way to protect skin from pepper spray. According to the A16 "Tear gas & pepper spray prevention & First-Aid" document (http://www.a16.org/medicalprevention.html), Gortex is a "poor barrier". Perhaps you could post where you got your info about using Gortex.

Fifth, i am confused about the "40mm Exact Impact Smokeless Sponge Rounds" information you give. You repeatedly refer to them as "explosives". However i have found many websites with information on 40mm sponge rounds (e.g. http://www.zarc.com/english/non-lethal_weapons/nlt-usaf.html
& http://www.less-lethal.com/view.asp?ID=6&CurPage=1&CID=) Nowhere have they been described as explosives. All the sources i have seen say that, while launched from a grenade launcher, the sponge rounds serve their purpose as a projectile using blunt trauma from impact. I believe you are confused as to what they actually are.

Feel free to reply, though i'd be much more likely to notice the reply if it were emailed to me, rather than posted in the comments section.

- Justin

p.s. If you're wondering where i'm getting my treatment/protection info, i have attended numerous street medic trainings at A16 and the recent Philadelphia protests. I have also worked in the field as a street medic in DC and Philly.)
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Idea

by Winston Smith Tuesday, Aug. 15, 2000 at 12:29 PM


Bolt three of those large symbols you find on a drumset, the largest ones you can buy, together in a triangular shape. The put a handle on it, either a door handle (old fashioned) you can buy at a hardware store, or you bend your own handle out of a piece of metal (depending on what you have the equipment and resources for). Also, a two ft by two ft long and wide, thick piece, or doubled pieces, of oak (used oak please, we've already taken enough from the earth)with an oak handle is also effective somewhat as a sheild. Shields is a good idea, you can use them to push police lines back without behaving any more violently than they are, thus it being less of a lop-sided fight.

Peace
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Need proof about "dragon's breath"!

by Tommy the Terrorist Tuesday, Aug. 15, 2000 at 2:07 PM
mayday@newsguy.com

The description of "Dragons breath" in this post is difficult for me to believe.

* In order for an agent to "reek", it must be volatile; but if it is volatile, how can it linger for "days"? We know the potency of course of skunk scent, as well as its tenacity, and it would be a fearsome weapon against protestors, but it takes quite a feat of engineering to outdo evolution.

* In order for it to have any "repulsive effect" on protestors, wouldn't it have to have a far more dramatic effect on the person sprayed?

* While the concepts of pheromones or other scent-based manipulators of human behavior, as well as "neutral scents" with a blocking effect on other smells, are known, they are clearly not well developed in civilian applications. Otherwise the perfume and deodorant industries would be very different! The police developed all this in secret?

* The secret police defenses are hardest to believe. A dab of scent under the nose surely can't work if there's a strong cross wind. And they have a secret SOAP? By God, major industrial concerns have been working on soap, detergent, and surfactant technologies for centuries --- you're saying the police have SECRETLY managed to outdo them?

It is obviously very hard to do a Web search on "Dragon's Breath", due to the popularity of role playing games. Please give some confirmation of the existence of this substance, if it does exist.
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UNPLUG FROM THE POLICE STATE

by The Shadow Monday, Nov. 27, 2000 at 2:30 PM

Fight! Fight! Fight, my loyal son-of a-bitches!
Stick this shit right up the governments ass and
light the wick BEEAAATCHES! Fuck them!
Fuck those punk ass agents. Those fags are no
good muther fucking asshole mommy fucking
little snot nose lala-land Q-balls. Probation
officer stroke offs! Police officer dali-wankers!
Your nothing!
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protection from police weapons....

by pingo Saturday, May. 19, 2001 at 9:23 AM
email will follow

ok, wre to begin.

First of all im from europe, so what i have to say might not help u guys/girls in the us.
Lets start with watercannons, they are big and clumsy so u can allways jump to the side (try and find out if it is low or high pressured cannons, if the last DONT GET HIT, they break your bones) good protection from them are raincoats or shields if u got any. In use in: Chezzh repuplic, England, Germany, France, belgium, and a lot more places in europe.

Shockgrenades.
These little buggars are nasty as hell ive only seen them in use in the Checzh repuplic. It is kind of handgrenade which explodes once very loud and then fire 5 smaller explosions 2m up in the air.
Protection: if u can nick the helmet of a copper, u have a pretty good shot not getting hurt, if not run about 6 feet back.

well tahts it for now bye bye
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