imc indymedia

Los Angeles Indymedia : Activist News

white themeblack themered themetheme help
About Us Contact Us Calendar Publish RSS
Features
latest news
best of news
syndication
commentary


KILLRADIO

VozMob

ABCF LA

A-Infos Radio

Indymedia On Air

Dope-X-Resistance-LA List

LAAMN List




IMC Network:

Original Cities

www.indymedia.org africa: ambazonia canarias estrecho / madiaq kenya nigeria south africa canada: hamilton london, ontario maritimes montreal ontario ottawa quebec thunder bay vancouver victoria windsor winnipeg east asia: burma jakarta japan korea manila qc europe: abruzzo alacant andorra antwerpen armenia athens austria barcelona belarus belgium belgrade bristol brussels bulgaria calabria croatia cyprus emilia-romagna estrecho / madiaq euskal herria galiza germany grenoble hungary ireland istanbul italy la plana liege liguria lille linksunten lombardia london madrid malta marseille nantes napoli netherlands nice northern england norway oost-vlaanderen paris/Île-de-france patras piemonte poland portugal roma romania russia saint-petersburg scotland sverige switzerland thessaloniki torun toscana toulouse ukraine united kingdom valencia latin america: argentina bolivia chiapas chile chile sur cmi brasil colombia ecuador mexico peru puerto rico qollasuyu rosario santiago tijuana uruguay valparaiso venezuela venezuela oceania: adelaide aotearoa brisbane burma darwin jakarta manila melbourne perth qc sydney south asia: india mumbai united states: arizona arkansas asheville atlanta austin baltimore big muddy binghamton boston buffalo charlottesville chicago cleveland colorado columbus dc hawaii houston hudson mohawk kansas city la madison maine miami michigan milwaukee minneapolis/st. paul new hampshire new jersey new mexico new orleans north carolina north texas nyc oklahoma philadelphia pittsburgh portland richmond rochester rogue valley saint louis san diego san francisco san francisco bay area santa barbara santa cruz, ca sarasota seattle tampa bay tennessee urbana-champaign vermont western mass worcester west asia: armenia beirut israel palestine process: fbi/legal updates mailing lists process & imc docs tech volunteer projects: print radio satellite tv video regions: oceania united states topics: biotech

Surviving Cities

www.indymedia.org africa: canada: quebec east asia: japan europe: athens barcelona belgium bristol brussels cyprus germany grenoble ireland istanbul lille linksunten nantes netherlands norway portugal united kingdom latin america: argentina cmi brasil rosario oceania: aotearoa united states: austin big muddy binghamton boston chicago columbus la michigan nyc portland rochester saint louis san diego san francisco bay area santa cruz, ca tennessee urbana-champaign worcester west asia: palestine process: fbi/legal updates process & imc docs projects: radio satellite tv
printable version - js reader version - view hidden posts - tags and related articles

What They're Really Saying in the Debates

by Mark Gabrish Conlan/Zenger's Newsmagazine Thursday, Oct. 09, 2008 at 6:16 PM
mgconlan@earthlink.net (619) 688-1886 P.O. Box 50134, San Diego, CA 92165

A brief analysis of the televised debates between vice-presidential candidates Sarah Palin and Joseph Biden October 2 and presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain October 7. The post also includes a transcript of the answers Palin and Biden gave to the question on the legal rights of same-sex couples, including whether they should have marriage equality.

Obama, McCain, Biden, Palin: What They’re Really Saying in the Debates

commentary portion by MARK GABRISH CONLAN

The most recent televised debate between Senators Barack Obama and John McCain October 7 was fascinating less for what got said — largely as a result of the big-money power that hangs over American politics and finances both major parties, there was only a narrow range of opinions and ideas they could express and as a result, the substance of their remarks was very much alike — than for the manners they gave off as they spoke. It was astonishingly ironic that McCain promoted himself as the “cool hand on the tiller” needed to conduct an effective foreign policy when for the entire debate it was Obama, not McCain, who was “cool.”

Obama was reasoned, calm, patient and sat respectfully at his desk when McCain spoke. McCain was crotchety, irritable, nervous and contemptuous, refusing to refer to Obama by name and looking surprisingly flustered, as if he can’t bear the idea that this tall, dark and handsome twerp is the only obstacle standing between him and the presidency. Obama seems to have that effect on his political opponents — Hillary Clinton was getting similarly flustered towards the end of their battle for the Democratic nomination — which might actually be a good reason to vote for him.

McCain expresses shock and disapproval at Obama’s willingness to negotiate with less-than-friendly world leaders like Iraq president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il “without preconditions” — which is basically Bush Administration “code” for the remarkable idea that a visit from a U.S. head of state is a benediction, a reward, to be bestowed only on other world leaders who already agree with us and are doing what we tell them to do. Frankly, if Obama can get under the skin of John McCain and Hillary Clinton as effectively as he has, it sounds to me like he’s the one we want across the negotiating table from folks like Ahmadinejad or Kim.

In some ways, the vice-presidential debate October 2 was a good deal more interesting than either of the encounters between the candidates at the top of the ticket. Whereas Obama, in my view, won both debates with McCain on points, Sarah Palin completely and utterly trounced Joe Biden by playing the “folksy” card to perfection. The V-P debate was like a real-life version of a Frank Capra movie, with Palin as a distaff James Stewart playing Everyperson — “Ms. Smith Goes to Washington” or “It’s a Wonderful Life in Alaska” — while Biden, who made some surprising boners (like naming the wrong article in the Constitution that deals with the executive branch and not even venturing a guess as to the name of the U.S. commanding general in Afghanistan — Palin gave a name and it was wrong), played into Palin’s script by projecting the veiled contempt of the patrician. Throughout the debate, Biden rose above the American voters and said, “Look at me and all the wonderful things I’m going to do for you.” Palin spoke to them at their level and said, “Look at me: I AM you.”

The vice-presidential debate was also the only one that directly addressed a Queer-rights issue: marriage equality and the legal recognition of rights for same-sex couples. Both Biden and Palin came out at the same place — both willing to grant Gay and Lesbian couples equal rights but NOT to call it “marriage” — but from two quite different directions. Biden actually said that he and Obama “do support making sure that committed couples in a same-sex marriage are guaranteed the same Constitutional benefits as a relationship” before he backtracked, first restricting those rights to what’s generally specified in domestic-partnership legislation and then saying flat-out he was against legal recognition of civil marriage for same-sex couples.

Biden also said that “in an Obama/Biden administration, there will be absolutely no distinction, from a Constitutional standpoint or a legal standpoint, between a same-sex and a heterosexual couple” — ignoring the fact that the only way to insure “absolutely no distinction” is either to open civil marriage, so-called, to Queer couples or rename the legal recognition of ALL couples “domestic partnerships” or “civil unions” and reserve the word “marriage” for the religious solemnization of a relationship, which under the free exercise clause of the First Amendment churches may choose to offer to same-sex partners or not.

On the other hand, Biden also inexplicably said that “[neither] Barack Obama nor I support redefining, from a civil side, what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically a decision to be able to be left to the faiths and people who practice their faiths, the determination [of] what you call it.” To which I can only respond: what on earth do “the faiths and people who practice their faiths” have to do with whether same-sex couples are entitled to CIVIL rights. Apparently it’s just fine with Joe Biden that the law continues to grant special rights to the religions that DON’T recognize marriage equality for same-sex and to discriminate against those that do — as well as against people like myself (though not my husband!) who don’t believe in any “faith” or God at all. But then, ever since I was less than one year old and the words “under God” were inserted into the Pledge of Allegiance, my country has been telling me that as an atheist I am a second-class citizen and incapable of true loyalty to this country.

•••••

Vice-Presidential Debate: Sarah Palin vs. Joe Biden, October 2, 2008 (excerpts)

Gwen Ifill [moderator]: The next round of questions starts with you, Senator Biden. Do you support, as they do in Alaska, granting benefits to same-sex couples?

Joe Biden: Absolutely. Do I support granting same-sex benefits? Absolutely, positively. Look, in an Obama/Biden administration, there will be absolutely no distinction, from a Constitutional standpoint or a legal standpoint, between a same-sex and a heterosexual couple. The fact of the matter is that under the Constitution, we should be granted — same-sex couples should be able to have visitation rights in the hospital, joint ownership of property, life insurance policies, etc. That’s only fair. It’s what the Constitution calls for.

And so we do support, we do support, making sure that committed couples in a same-sex marriage are guaranteed the same Constitutional benefits as a relationship — property rights, the rights of visitation, the rights of insurance, the rights of ownership — as heterosexual couples do.

Ifill: Governor, would you support expanding that beyond Alaska to the rest of the nation?

Sarah Palin: Well, not if it grows closer and closer towards redefining the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman, and unfortunately that’s sometimes where those steps lead. But I also want to clarify, if there’s any kind of suggestion at all from my answer that I would be anything but tolerant of adults in America choosing their partners, choosing relationships that they deem best for themselves.

You know, I am tolerant, and I have a very diverse family and group of friends, and even within that group you would see some who may not agree with me on this issue, some very dear friends who don’t agree with me on this issue. But in that tolerance, also, no one would ever propose, not in a McCain/Palin administration, to do anything to prohibit, say, visitations in a hospital or contracts being signed, being negotiated, between parties.

But I will tell Americans straight up that I don’t support defining marriage as anything but between one man and one woman. And I think through nuances, we could go round and round about what that actually means. But I’m being as straight-up with Americans as I can in my non-support for anything but a traditional definition of marriage.

Ifill: Let’s try to avoid nuance, Senator.

Biden: For that I would be grateful.

Ifill: Do you support Gay marriage?

Biden: No. [Neither] Barack Obama nor I support redefining, from a civil side, what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically a decision to be able to be left to the faiths and people who practice their faiths, the determination [of] what you call it. The bottom line is — and I’m glad to hear this from the Governor. I take her at her word, obviously — that she thinks there should be no civil-rights distinction whatever between a committed Gay couple and a committed heterosexual couple. If that’s the case, we really don’t have a difference.

Ifill [to Palin]: Is that what you said?

Palin: Your question to him was whether he supported Gay marriage, and my answer is the same as his, and it is that I do not.

Ifill: Wonderful. You agree. On that note, let’s move to foreign policy.

Report this post as:

LATEST COMMENTS ABOUT THIS ARTICLE
Listed below are the 10 latest comments of 1 posted about this article.
These comments are anonymously submitted by the website visitors.
TITLE AUTHOR DATE
THE BUSH DIEBOLD VOTE FRAUD CONNECTION ON THE BUSH VOTE PURGES & ON LINE VOTE FRAUD USSA THE BUSH DIEBOLD VOTE FRAUD CONNECTION Friday, Oct. 10, 2008 at 12:28 PM

Local News

GUIDE TO REBEL CITY LOS ANGELES AVAILABLE A12 5:39PM

lausd whistle blower A10 11:58PM

Website Upgrade A10 3:02AM

Help KCET and UCLA identify 60s-70s Chicano images A04 1:02PM

UCLA Luskin: Casting Youth Justice in a Different Light A02 11:58AM

Change Links April 2018 A01 11:27AM

Nuclear Shutdown News March 2018 M31 6:57PM

Join The Protest Rally in Glendale on April 10, 2018! M29 7:00PM

Join The Protest Rally in Glendale on April 10, 2018! M29 6:38PM

Spring 2018 National Immigrant Solidarity Network News Alert! M19 2:02PM

Anti-Eviction Mapping Project Shows Shocking Eviction Trends in L.A. M16 5:40PM

Steve Mnuchin video at UCLA released M15 12:34AM

Actress and Philanthropist Tanna Frederick Hosts Project Save Our Surf Beach Clean Ups M06 12:10PM

After Being Told He's 'Full of Sh*t' at School Event, Mnuchin Demands UCLA Suppress Video M02 11:44AM

Resolution of the Rent Strike in Boyle Heights M01 6:28PM

What Big Brother Knows About You and What You Can Do About It M01 3:30PM

Step Up As LAPD Chief Charlie Beck Steps Down F14 2:44PM

Our House Grief Support Center Hosts 9th Annual Run For Hope, April 29 F13 12:51PM

Don’t let this LA County Probation Department overhaul proposal sit on the shelf F13 11:04AM

Echo Park Residents Sue LA Over Controversial Development F12 8:51AM

Former Signal Hill police officer pleads guilty in road-rage incident in Irvine F09 10:25PM

Calif. Police Accused of 'Collusion' With Neo-Nazis After Release of Court Documents F09 7:14PM

Center for the Study of Political Graphics exhibit on Police Abuse posters F07 9:50AM

City Agrees to Settle Lawsuit Claiming Pasadena Police Officer Had His Sister Falsely Arre F04 3:17PM

Professor's Study Highlights Health Risks of Urban Oil Drilling F04 12:42PM

Claims paid involving Pasadena Police Department 2014 to present F04 10:52AM

Pasadenans - get your license plate reader records from police F03 11:11PM

LA Times Homicide Report F03 1:57PM

More Local News...

Other/Breaking News

Doxa du lobby A25 2:03AM

Tech workers organize A24 6:24PM

Architect Stephen Francis Jones A24 3:01PM

UN Forum Wrestles with Economic Policies 10 Years After Financial Crisis Islands Call for A24 12:34PM

Xyloglossie attitudinale A23 8:07AM

Shadowgun Legends Hack and Cheats A23 7:24AM

What does the Quran Say About Islamic Dress?? A21 4:15PM

Biodiversité ou la nature privatisée A20 11:22AM

The Market is a Universal Totalitarian Religion A20 7:14AM

Book Available about Hispanics and US Civil War by National Park Service A19 5:52PM

The Shortwave Report 04/20/18 Listen Globally! A19 4:01PM

The Republican 'Prolife' Party Is the Party of War, Execution, and Bear Cub Murder A19 11:48AM

Neurogenèse involutive A18 9:21AM

Paraphysique de la dictature étatique A16 10:13AM

Book Review: "The New Bonapartists" A16 3:45AM

The West Must Take the First Steps to Russia A14 12:25PM

Théorie générale de la révolution ou hommage à feu Mikhaïl Bakounine A14 3:30AM

The Shortwave Report 04/13/18 Listen Globally! A12 3:50PM

“Lost in a Dream” Singing Competition Winner to Be Chosen on April 15 for ,000 Prize! A12 3:48PM

The World Dependent on Central Banks A12 4:43AM

Ohio Governor Race: Dennis Kucinich & Richard Cordray Run Against Mike DeWine A11 9:40PM

March 2018 Honduras Coup Again Update A10 10:52PM

Apologie du zadisme insurrectionnel A10 3:33PM

ICE contract with license plate reader company A10 1:14PM

Palimpseste sisyphéen A09 11:23PM

Black Portraiture(S) IV: The Color of Silence...Cuba No...Cambridge Yes A09 5:32AM

Prohibiting Micro-Second Betting on the Exchanges A09 4:18AM

Prosecutors treat Muslims harsher than non-Muslims for the same crimes A08 10:33PM

More Breaking News...
© 2000-2018 Los Angeles Independent Media Center. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not necessarily endorsed by the Los Angeles Independent Media Center. Running sf-active v0.9.4 Disclaimer | Privacy