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The Roving Counter Demonstrator Strikes Again!

by R of the Northeast LA Radical Neighbors Monday, Aug. 06, 2007 at 5:20 PM
NelaRad@SBCGlobal.net

"This was his first visit to Highland Park, and he must have gotten wind that we were planning to observe Hiroshima and Nagasaki days as he brought signs supporting the use of nuclear weapons: one praised the Enola Gay for its involvement in nuking Japan, another thanked General Leslie R. Groves for overseeing the Manhattan Project."

The Roving Counter D...
rovingcounterdem12007-08-05.jpg, image/jpeg, 1024x768

August 5, 2007: The Highland Park vigil was visited today by the Roving Counter Demonstrator. He has previously been seen at other vigils throughout the Southern California, including Eagle Rock, and South Pasadena, West Covina, and (I'm told) Whittier.

This was his first visit to Highland Park, and he must have gotten wind that we were planning to observe Hiroshima and Nagasaki days as he brought signs supporting the use of nuclear weapons: one praised the Enola Gay for its involvement in nuking Japan, another thanked General Leslie R. Groves for overseeing the Manhattan Project.

In the past, his signs have promoted Fox News and supporting the troops.

The number of pro-peace demonstrators varied from three to six. Our pictures and signs of radiation victims got a lot of attention.

Sometimes it was hard to tell which motorists were honking in support of which vigil, but many were clearly aimed at us. However, the Roving Counter Demonstrator received his share of positive responses, and one person came over to him and shook his hand. Another passerby appeared to flip him off, but it was hard to be certain.

Many people may not have known what they were honking at. Some may have mistaken him for one of us--and others may have thought we were with him. The Counter Demonstrator’s “support the troops” signs were the easiest to read, and people at both ends of the political spectrum support the troops. His American flag was rather prominent, but our vigil has had a flag-draped coffin for some years. His signs supporting nuclear weapons took longer to read.

After the vigil, I discovered that he left a leaflet on my car windshield. “Please do not let yourself be used by those groups and individuals who are in reality sympathetic to our nation’s enemies,” it said with a reference to various websites, including www.frontpagemag.com.

The flyer went on to describe the ANSWER Coalition as a “front” for “extemist” left-leaning groups, some of whom support Kim Jong II and Fidel Castro and “these murderous regimes’ violation of international law.” No rebuttal necessary (I hope).
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The Highland Park vigil observes Horoshima/Nagasaki days.

by R of the Northeast LA Radical Neighbors Monday, Aug. 06, 2007 at 5:20 PM
NelaRad@SBCGlobal.net

The Highland Park vi...
nelarad8-5b2007-08-05.jpg, image/jpeg, 1024x768

error
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Victims of radiation and chemicals.

by R of the Northeast LA Radical Neighbors Monday, Aug. 06, 2007 at 5:20 PM
NelaRad@SBCGlobal.net

Victims of radiation...
nelarad8-5c2007-08-05.jpg, image/jpeg, 1024x768

error
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Another vigil sign (8-5-07)

by R of the Northeast LA Radical Neighbors Monday, Aug. 06, 2007 at 5:20 PM
NelaRad@SBCGlobal.net

Another vigil sign (...
nelarad8-5d2007-08-05.jpg, image/jpeg, 1024x768

error
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The Highland Park vigil says no to nuclear weapons.

by R of the Northeast LA Radical Neighbors Monday, Aug. 06, 2007 at 5:20 PM
NelaRad@SBCGlobal.net

The Highland Park vi...
nelarad8-5e2007-08-05.jpg, image/jpeg, 1024x768

error
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Vigil sign (8-5-07)

by R of the Northeast LA Radical Neighbors Monday, Aug. 06, 2007 at 5:20 PM
NelaRad@SBCGlobal.net

Vigil sign (8-5-07)...
nelarad8-5f2007-08-05.jpg, image/jpeg, 1024x768

error
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A sign by the Roving Counter Demonstrator...

by R of the Northeast LA Radical Neighbors Monday, Aug. 06, 2007 at 5:20 PM
NelaRad@SBCGlobal.net

A sign by the Roving...
rovingcounterdem22007-08-05.jpg, image/jpeg, 1024x768

...thanks the Enola Gay for nuking Japan.
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The Roving Counter Demonstrator cont'd.

by R of the Northeast LA Radical Neighbors Monday, Aug. 06, 2007 at 5:20 PM
NelaRad@SBCGlobal.net

The Roving Counter D...
rovingcounterdem32007-08-05.jpg, image/jpeg, 1024x768

error
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The Roving Counter Demonstrator visits Highland Park cont'd

by R of the Northeast LA Radical Neighbors Monday, Aug. 06, 2007 at 5:20 PM
NelaRad@SBCGlobal.net

The Roving Counter D...
rovingcounterdem42007-08-05.jpg, image/jpeg, 1024x768

error
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Truthification

by waking up from the dream Monday, Aug. 06, 2007 at 8:12 PM

Truthification...
truthism.jpg, image/jpeg, 487x375

The guy really holds on to his outdated propaganda!
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don't feed the trolls

by questioner Tuesday, Aug. 07, 2007 at 7:12 AM

This Lord Locksley is an obvious troll. Why is 'he' allowed to foul
this site with this sick and obsessive kind of celebration of horror?
Why are the editors allowing him to post obvious principles and guide line violations. Over and over.
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PHOTOSHOP

by TOM Tuesday, Aug. 07, 2007 at 10:01 AM

Item 1. Wow, the guy that photoshopped my signs really worked fast to get those online. They might actually fool some people.

IItem 2. I do wish I had used a larger comma on the "100,000s. " It is not very legible.

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"Blow-back is a bitch" -- Glen Ford

by blow-back happens Tuesday, Aug. 07, 2007 at 10:06 AM

Japan had a history of isolationism, and it was very eager to remain that way--but the U.S. (vis-a-vis Admiral Perry) and a few Western European powers used gunboat diplomacy to force Japan to engage in the world. (Also, prior to the Pearl Harbor attack, the U.S. cut off Japan's oil supply.)

The U.S. is again leaning on Japan to engage in the world. At the behest of Bush, Japan has deployed military ships for the first time since WW II as part of the Iraq endeavor.
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Japan, Isolationism?

by wake Tuesday, Aug. 07, 2007 at 11:37 AM

They were invading all over the place during WW2. The US did an embargo against Japan, cutting off their fuel supply, thus virtually halting Japan's imperialist expansion. They retalliated by attacking the US. War ensued. Japan had basically lost by the time the atomic bombs were dropped, due largely to overextension, attrition and the US campaign of civilian firebombing (which is usually forgotten).

Locksley neglects to note that the Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere was a response to European imperialism in Asia. Japan wanted to take the place of Britain, Holland, Spain, the US, and France. Like Germany, they were an imperial rival challenging the existing empires of Europe.

Isn't it interesting that Japan and Germany are now economic powerhouses, and strong allies to the US, while other allied nations (USSR, China) and liberated nations (Philippines, Indonesia) are not.
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Re: Isolation?

by Blow-back Happens Tuesday, Aug. 07, 2007 at 12:36 PM

The U.S. forced Japan out of its isolationism in the mid-19th century, which paved the way for Japan's imperialism in the ensuing decades. I referred to Admiral Perry's involvement, who I assume you studied in school at some point.
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Perry

by wake Wednesday, Aug. 08, 2007 at 12:05 AM

I never really connected Perry's "opening up" Japan with the development of imperialism. I'll have to read up on that more. (I'm reading up on it now. Clearly, I got the abbreviated, US-centric version of the story. The internal changes in Japan and the rise of imperialism are interesting.)
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TRUMAN MADE THE CORRECT DECISION

by RCD Wednesday, Aug. 08, 2007 at 5:35 AM

Hiroshima was the headquarters of the Japanese Second Army. The Second Army was tasked with defending that Japanese island from invasion. Hiroshima was also the HQ of a Japenese army division. There were also 4 major industrial areas in Hiroshima.

The Japanese home islands had a million and a half men of the regular Japanese army stationed there. In addition, there was a 20 million man militia force created to battle invading forces. The Japanese had about 10,000 combat aircraft of which 5,000 were Kamikaze The previous data was from John Toland's book RISING SUN, if my recollection is accurate.
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Tommy

by Pete Nice Wednesday, Aug. 08, 2007 at 6:34 AM

The counter-protester's name is Tommy The Tory. He loves it when you call him that although he will never respond.
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why give tommy all this press?

by anti-Tommy Wednesday, Aug. 08, 2007 at 7:01 AM

WTF!
Why is Ross giving Tommy the Tory his own f***ing headline!?

I wouldnt give this neo-nazi any space at all. I bet this fascist is just loving all the attention hes getting from indymedia. F*** him!

I thought the demo was about honoring the victims of "militant imperialism"---i.e. U.S. imperial aggression---not the antics of nazi tommy.
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A survey of some essays

by wake Wednesday, Aug. 08, 2007 at 9:47 PM

Here are some documents found on the internet. The raving mad pro-nuke ones were not included, but some one good pro-nuke essay is in here:


http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/70-7_23.htm
- Points out that it was used, partly, because it was intended to be used -- that is, it was already an arms race with Germany. Also, footnotes 11 and 29 says that one reason for using the bomb was to know that it worked. Also highlights that the specifics of the city of Hiroshima were not the main concerns -- the global impact of using the bomb weighed heavily in the decision. (Note that this is from the Army center of military history.)

http://www.johnwcooper.com/papers/atomicbombtruman.htm#aft
- the US was seeking a quick exit, because support for war was waning, the USSR was in a position to enter int war against Japan, and Japan wasn't willing to surrender if it could not keep it's colonies.

http://www.commondreams.org/scriptfiles/views03/1214-06.htm
- A few military brass from WW2 said, after the war, that the bomb wasn't necessary.

Conclusion, based mainly on the Army website: the revisionists are on solid ground. The specific military necessity of bombing the city of Hiroshima is refuted. The general value of the bomb, to end the war, is disputed, but the "shock and awe" seemed to speed the surrender. Most people have reservations about using it, but, these were offset by the perceived advantages, as well as the way it could affect relations with Germany and the USSR..

So, Tommy the Tory, get your head out your butt. The Army says you're wrong.
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To "Anti-Tommy"

by R Thursday, Aug. 09, 2007 at 5:01 AM

The intent of this story was to convey what many in this country believe, regardless of whether or nor you, I, or others like it.

And since you took the liberty of mentioning me by name (I didn't volunteer it in the byline), why don't you introduce yourself?
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TO WAKE

by RCD Thursday, Aug. 09, 2007 at 8:14 AM

The following is from Morton/s article in the army.mil website that you referred to. Thanks, Wake, for providing me a source that backs up my postion.


It would be a fruitless task to weigh accurately the relative importance of all the factors leading to the Japanese surrender. There is no doubt that Japan had been defeated by the summer of 1945, if not earlier. But defeat did not mean that the military clique had given up; the Army intended to fight on and had made elaborate preparations for the defense of the homeland. Whether air bombardment and naval blockade or the threat of invasion would have produced an early surrender and averted the heavy losses almost certain to accompany the actual landings in Japan is a moot question. Certainly they had a profound effect on the Japanese position. It is equally difficult to assert categorically that the atomic bomb alone or Soviet intervention alone was the decisive factor in bringing the war to an end. All that can be said on the available evidence is that Japan was defeated in the military sense by August 1945 and that the bombing of Hiroshima, followed by the Soviet Union's declaration of war and the bombing of Nagasaki and the threat of still further bombing, acted as catalytic agents to produce the Japanese decision to surrender. Together they created so extreme a crisis that the Emperor himself, in an unprecedented move, took matters into his own hands and ordered his ministers to surrender. Whether any other set of circumstances would have resolved the crisis and produced the final decision to surrender is a question history cannot yet answer.
END

New info
The United States was already dropping approximately half an atomic bomb a day on Japan in conventional bombardment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Japan......

by Lord Locksley Thursday, Aug. 09, 2007 at 8:33 AM

.....still had between 4 and 5 million men under arms when Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed in August of 1945,having lost only about 750,000 men total during the war in the US island hopping campaign from Guadalcanal to Okinawa...not to mention more than 5000 kamikaze aircraft to throw at the 7th Fleet in the event the home islands were invaded.....American casualties would have been massive...on the order of half a million or more to totally subdue Japan completely....Japan also had a working nuclear reactor on the Korean peninsula and had been receiving fissionable material from Germany to feed it....if President Truman hadn't used the atomic bomb to force and end of hostilities and had proceeded with Operation Olympic and the war had dragged on into 1946 and it had become known that we had atomic weapons and had failed to use them and incurred the anticipated casualties,he would probably have been impeached...and rightly so....Russia had been waiting since Germany surrendered the previous May for the US to withdraw combat divisions to the Pacific with the hope of further dominating western Europe and didn't formally declare war on Japan till August 8th....AFTER Hiroshima had been bombed on Aug 6th....given the utter intransigence of the Japanese war cabinet,and the Russian geopolitical aims,President Truman exercised the nuclear option....and the revisionists have hated him for that ever since
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To R

by RCD Thursday, Aug. 09, 2007 at 9:39 AM

Thank you for being such a gentleman on this site. Your earlier description of the events on 8.5.07 was generally accurate and fair. I do not always get that kind of respectful treatment from the left, as you can readily see from other posts on this site. RCD
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To R

by RCD Thursday, Aug. 09, 2007 at 9:39 AM

Thank you for being such a gentleman on this site. Your earlier description of the events on 8.5.07 was generally accurate and fair. I do not always get that kind of respectful treatment from the left, as you can readily see from other posts on this site. RCD
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Tommy the Tory collaborates with Nazis like Chris Spellman AKA Last Great Dope

by BaBaBooey! Thursday, Aug. 09, 2007 at 9:58 AM

...AKA Chris Mendez (fake Latino). These two along with the rest of the Nazis/SOS/MMP tried to scare the Jornaleros out of Alhambra, but to no avail.
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