Darfur Death Toll Is Hundreds of Thousands Higher Than Reported, Study Says
Kelly Hearn
for National Geographic News


United States government death toll estimates for the war-torn Darfur region of Sudan in Africa underestimate the count by hundreds of thousands of lost lives, according to a new study.

Some experts estimate that the conflict between government-sponsored militias and rebel groups, which began in February 2003, has killed as many as 500,000 people so far (watch related video about the factors fueling the conflict).

Darfur refugees mourning photo

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RELATED

* Surviving Darfur: Photographer on Life in the Camps (June 2005)
* Freed by Sudan, "Geographic" Reporter Arrives Home in U.S. (September 10, 2006)
* Sudan Facts, Maps, More

But in 2005 officials at the U.S. Department of State gave a vastly lower threshold of 63,000 to 146,000 dead.

The low figures produced "patterns of underestimation that prevailed in the press," said John Hagan, study co-author and sociology professor at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois.

"After that announcement, much of the media reporting started to talk in the tens of thousands rather than hundreds of thousands, or they didn't talk about deaths at all and talked exclusively about displacement," he said. "It had the effect of diminishing the sense of urgency."

(See related photos of life in Sudanese refugee camps.)

The latest report, to be published in tomorrow's issue of the journal Science, challenges official U.S. estimates.

Hagan and co-author Alberto Palloni of the University of Wisconsin, Madison, estimate that the conflict has caused anywhere from 170,000 to 255,000 deaths, and they say the number could be much higher.

"Analysis of factors confounding previous estimates leads to the conclusion that hundreds of thousand of people … have died as a result of the conflict in Darfur," Hagan and Palloni write in their study.

Challenging Data

Many death toll estimates for Darfur have been hindered by the difficulties of taking surveys in Sudan's western region (map of Sudan).

Data-gathering agencies must therefore make problematic assumptions, the authors write in their study. For example, interviews in displacement camps must be used as substitutes for body counts and population-based census data.

Surveys also vary in coverage, and years of war and famine throughout Sudan have "reconfigured nuclear families, making sampling units in surveys problematic," the authors write. (Related feature: "Shattered Sudan" in National Geographic magazine.)

Darfur refugees mourning photo

Enlarge Photo

Email to a Friend
RELATED

* Surviving Darfur: Photographer on Life in the Camps (June 2005)
* Freed by Sudan, "Geographic" Reporter Arrives Home in U.S. (September 10, 2006)
* Sudan Facts, Maps, More

The study also says that estimates of Darfur mortality "have been based on the dubious assumption of a constant number of deaths per month."

According to Hagan and Palloni, the State Department's data were limited due to an emphasis on "camp health problems rather than pre-camp violence."

The department also drew "on health surveys that were not fully identified and for which primary sources are uncertain."

State Department officials declined to comment for this article.

To reach their estimate, Hagan and Palloni derived direct crude mortality rates, or CMRs, from survey materials recorded by the Sudanese state of West Darfur. They also made indirect CMR estimates using child mortality rates.

The pair believes that the direct estimates are too high while the indirect estimates are too low, so they combined the data sets to produce upper and lower bounds.

They then calculated the number of deaths using the CMRs and estimates of the affected populations.

"Our conclusion is that the total number of deaths is 200,000 or more, possibly much more," Hagan said.

Floor-Level Estimate

Before the State Department's 2005 release, the World Health Organization issued a 2004 report estimating that 70,000 people had perished over a seven-month period because of the Darfur conflict.

By April 2005 a United Nations humanitarian coordinator had estimated 180,000 people had perished over 18 months, and UN Secretary General Kofi Annan had put the number at 300,000.

Eric Reeves, an influential Sudan activist and professor at Smith College in Northampton, Massachusetts, says that the U.S. government's low estimates were politically tainted.

"The State Department has not wanted Darfur to be perceived as the enormous genocidal crisis that it is, for lack of an effective way of responding," he said.

"This is propaganda, not epidemiology [the study of patterns and causes of diseases, injuries, and other human health problems]."

Reeves, who puts the number of deaths at 500,000, gives particular prominence to a well-known study that focused specifically on lives lost to direct violence.

That study, conducted in 2005 by the Coalition for International Justice (CIJ), a now-defunct legal nonprofit, was not used in the new report.

Reeves said it was "irresponsible" of the researchers to exclude the CIJ research, noting that study co-author Hagan used it last year to conclude that at least 390,000 Africans had perished in the conflict, a figure higher than his current estimate.

Hagan says that the CIJ survey was a rich resource that simply did not fit the criteria for the current study.

He said the new estimate "was intended to establish a floor level of 200,000 deaths, so that media sources would no longer underestimate the urgency of the situation in Darfur."

He stressed that the actual number of deaths could be much higher.

The new estimate, he says, is more conservative than the previous one because it did not include missing persons who were presumed dead, and it used different criteria to measure family membership.

Only the vilest and most demented minds could have dreamed up the conspiracies attributed to Zionism. The Hamas Charter accuses "Zionists" of having fomented the French revolution. Considering that there was no Zionist movement then, that was quite an accomplishment. However, that was only the beginning.
The the terror attacks of 9-11 were in reality a result of a conspiracy of Al Qaeda Islamists with the cooperation of the Taleban government of Afghanistan. However, elaborate theories have been constructed to lay the blame for 9-11 on "Zionists." As described by Bradley Burston:

I was handed a complimentary DVD by a 9/11 conspiracist. It was a newly enhanced version of the Protocols of the new millennium, the theory - simultaneously promulgated by elements of the far left, the far right, and fundamentalist Islam, people who in every other respect hate each others' guts and each others' every opinion - that it was Israel and the Mossad that brought down the World Trade Center.
...the ADL said last month that "Today, those theories are even more widespread and some have taken their anti-Semitic allegations even farther by claiming that it was specifically Jewish members of the Bush Administration who directed the government in planning the attacks for the benefit of Israel."

The war in Iraq, and more recently, Iraqi terror, are of course blamed on Jews and Zionists as well.
A conspiracy of the Arab Lobby has blocked international efforts to stop the genocide in Darfur. As
Jeff Weintraub noted a while ago, President Bashir of Sudan blamed the international outcry against the murder of hundreds of thousands on the Jews.
More recently, Ned Goldstein has documented both the agony of Darfur and the pernicious and evil Zionist conspiracy to save Dafur at http://ww4report.com/node/2582 (no links for bad guy Web sites):


The death toll in the Darfur region of western Sudan has reached between 200,000 and 400,000 as of Oct. 1, with 2.5 million displaced. The UN warns that the death toll could escalate precipitously if the situation is allowed to deteriorate. The dictatorial — and genocidal —Khartoum regime led by Omar al-Bashir, is possibly the world's most brutal and murderous.

That's pretty horrible right? You would think that Goldstein and all the anti-war people would welcome any effort to stop the carnage? But it isn't so. Goldstein explains that the save Darfur campaign is meant to distract attention from Israeli atrocities in Lebanon and also:

Israel advocates had hoped the Save Darfur movement would do more to renew the Black-Jewish alliance that went back to the civil rights era in the US.

The fact that US Arab advocate James Zogby participates in the Save Darfur campaign does not deter Goldstein. Darfur, like treatment of homosexuals in Arab/Muslim sociaety, and like 9-11, is real problem for "progressives." How can they square uncritical support for Islamist and Israel causes with progressive values? How can they rationalize their apologetics for groups that kill thousands of innocent people? How can they rationalize away their criminal failure to act in saving lives in Darfur? It doesn't occur to Goldstein that the best way to "de-Zionize" the save Darfur campaign is to get everyone involved in it. It doesn't occur to Brian Whitaker that the reason Israel has liberal laws about sex behavior is that Israel is really a democratic society, not because such laws are a propaganda ploy. It doesn't occur to conspiracy theorists that so many Zionists turned out to save Darfur is that Zionism is really not racism. The people who stayed home and turn their backs on Darfur are the racists.

You don't have to be a Zionist to try to stop the agony of Darfur and the war crimes and crimes against humanity of the Sudanese government. Everyone can help save Darfur by writing to President Bush and UN Secretary General Kofi Annan: Click here to do it: http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/darfur/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=5197.

Too bad for all those staunch segregationists in the Southern USA. They didn't think of blaming the civil rights movement on the "Zionists," even though many of the people who fought for integration in the US were Jews and Zionists, and likewise many of those who fought against Apartheid in South Africa. If you can associate your cause with anti-Semitism or "anti-Zionism" you can get several billion recruits instantly, as Adolf Hitler understood so well.

Very likely, the next evil to be blamed on the Zionists is the North Korean A-bomb or the fight against it. We can envision several versions of this theory. One version will hold that Kim Jong Il is really a Mossad spy who had plastic surgery. He got the nuclear technology from Mossad agents. A second theory will explain contrarily that it is only Jews who are interested in stopping North Korea from obtaining nuclear weapons, just as it is widely accepted that only "Zionists" are worried about the Iranian nuclear development program. The latter theory will probably be propagated by the North Korean government. Pretty soon Counterpunch, Antiwar and similar sources of enlightenment will be insisting that "Zionist neocons" and Mossad agents have infiltrated the governments of China, Russia, France and the US.

needed for preceding post with the following zionazi spooge stain.
'The the terror attacks of 9-11 were in reality a result of a conspiracy of Al Qaeda Islamists '
So, with that qualifier, my question is if they could [ 19 savage arabs

Did SY just justify israeli atrocities by pointing at yet another atrocity?
Good point. as always.

Actually you again invert reality upon which your grasp is fragile.
So in essence simply, while the israelis try to spead the myth that only the israeli' issues matter to the world, there are many others with far more pressing issues even if the israelis whine louder. [?]

Editor, there's an obvious anti-Zionist forgery under a Jewish nym above and you didn't care to hide it. For all (authentic) Jews here, feast your eyes on this image

How come the al-Aksa mosque is in the video?

That is where all Jews face during their prayers because the two Jewish Temples once stood there. The Temple Mount is still the holiest for Judaism even in the Temple's absence. The narrator on the video instructs the observant Jewish listeners to face the Mount.

I suppose my comment might provoke some racist chargethat would have occurred if I settled for the above assertions so I'll seize the opportunity to state something. The only reason the Muslims built those two mosques is to deprive the Jews of the Temple Mount. Religious Muslim interest in the Mount waxes and wanes by shifting political climates. For example, Muslim zeal for this holy site increased right after the Israeli 1967 victory, during the 1at 1987-1993 intifada, the 1996 Tunnel riots, and the outbreak of the 2nd intifada.

PROJECT MOCKINGBECKY WRITES: "With impersonal number game which if actually looked at would show a huge disparity in death, well in favor of the gangster israeli 'state' compared to the Palestinians."

BECKY: So pointing out the undisputed fact that the death toll in Sudan is hundreds of times greater than the Palestinian death toll is some kind of parlor trick to you?

I"m sure the 2.5 million currently displaced Sudanese who are in danger of becoming another death statistic will understand that you have your pet causes which are much more important symbolically to you than any REAL genocide happening to them.

So for you, ONE Palestinian is worth more than 192 Sudanese?

The reason the Israeli death toll is not higher is because:

1. Palestinian death tolls are inflated
2. Israel does not value martyrs
3. The IDF can protect the Israelis better than the PA does
4. Israel has incredible medical care which saves many lives---so many are injured but few die
5. Palestinian death tolls include armed combatants in their numbers--counted as "civilians" because they are out of uniform

NONE of these reasons has anything to do with Israeli "gansta politics".

Dawson, you've missed the point. For some reason, and perhaps a very bad one, the Left has adopted the far right, atavistic Palestinian movement and ignores others with far more pressing issues. Darfur is a glaring example.

Your entire pose here is about sidestepping the truth. The truth concerning the Darfur genocide and displacement is not on your side so you need to try to distract from it by maligning BJ or anyone else that sidetracks your attempts to divert attention from the topic. You've been found to be (yes) a weak weasel and viciously racist at that. Racism is your standard fallback when the absurdities inherent in your positions surface or get exposed.

Now if only we could wall in 'israel' until they abided by the innumerable UN resolutions they tell everyone to fuck off about.
yah yah

FATA BORNO, Sudan - The small patrol of African Union peacekeepers were struggling with two stranded cars near this Darfur refugee camp when the Arab militiamen sped by in trucks, shouting and brandishing weapons. They were the Janjaweed, the fierce militiamen accused of raping and murdering African villagers and turning western Sudan's Darfur region into one of the world's gravest humanitarian crises.

The incident - witnessed Wednesday by a reporter for The Associated Press - shows how little the Janjaweed fear the understaffed and underfunded African Union peacekeeping force, which is supposed to monitor a cease-fire and protect civilians here.

Sudan has refused to allow the United Nations to send in peacekeepers to replace the AU force and protect civilians.

In the Wednesday incident, a half-dozen pickup trucks mounted with heavy machine guns rumbled past the small African Union peacekeeping patrol as it struggled to pull the stranded cars from a sandy riverbed.

Inside the trucks, about 50 young Arab militiamen brandished weapons such as rocket-propelled grenade launchers and automatic rifles. As they rode past, the fighters - most of them appearing to be excitable teens with scarves masking their faces - shouted and shook their fists at the stranded peacekeepers.

Janjaweed militiamen are streaming into this northern part of Darfur to support Sudanese government troops battling rebels in a new and intense outbreak of fighting.

But local leaders say the militiamen also pose an increasing threat to ethnic African refugees, even within refugee camps that are near the bases of the 7,000-strong AU force.

Tribal leaders at Fata Borno said Janjaweed convoys have been passing by their camp here on a nearly daily basis, headed north from the Arab stronghold of Kebkabiya where their training camps are believed to be located.

Menacing as the Janjaweed convoys are, refugees said they are even more afraid of other armed Arab nomads in the area.

In general, international observers believe a toxic mix of both the Janjaweed and other Arab nomads, allegedly armed by Sudan's government, are responsible for many of the atrocities in Darfur.

Sudan's government is accused of raising and equipping the Janjaweed in 2003 to help put down an uprising by ethnic African villagers. The government has acknowledged using several paramilitary groups to reinforce its army in Darfur.

But the government blames atrocities on bandits that are beyond its control.

"These ... aren't the most dangerous ones," whispered 10-year-old refugee Najmaddin Idriss, huddling behind the African soldiers as the Janjaweed militiamen passed by in their pickup trucks.

"The ones over there are much more dangerous," he said, pointing to a spot down the riverbed where dozens of camels belonging to the other Arab fighters were grazing.

"The real danger comes from the (Arab) tribes who stay here," said refugee leader Ali Abubakar, and don't stream through periodically like the Janjaweed. "My people get killed, raped and looted all the time."

The other Arab nomads have long roamed the barren expanses of northern Darfur, he and others said. "They only became nasty at the beginning of the war, when the government gave them weapons," Abubakar said.

In the meantime, the presence of the African peacekeepers does little to relieve the terror. Fertile lands within a half mile of the Fata Borno camp are now off limits.

"Anyone who goes beyond that point is risking his life," Sheik Ibrahim Abdallah said, pointing at trees a few hundred yards away.

He said that some refugees tie their animals close to the African Union outpost alongside the camp.

"But even there, under the lights of the peacekeepers, donkeys get stolen," he said.

U.N. humanitarian chief Jan Egeland this week warned that the Janjaweed were becoming even more dangerous because of new equipment they were apparently receiving from the Sudanese government.

The militias "are more brutal than ever," Egeland told reporters in Geneva. "The nightmare we are seeing in Darfur is continuing."

If we followed the example of Russia and other countries and assassinated far more Palestinian jihadists without worrying so much who else would get hurt, we'd be furthering the prospects of peace.

Typical Toady. Has anyone wondered why an indybay editor would post idiocy on another indymedia website?

latuff is G-d.

Maybe if SJ wouldn't spam the religious tripe, I wouldn't post as many cartoons...

Last spring I taped a television show with John Morlino of The Darfur Pledge. He set forth the evidence to show that the situation in Sudan with the death toll and refugees in Darfur is the biggest humanitarian crisis on the planet at this current time.

The African Union soldiers are not big enough or well-enough equipped to protect the people, who have had to flee their homes or be slaughtered.

Women and girls are especially at risk, as rape is a constant fear.

Starvation is also a problem, as the hostilities negatively impact the ability for humanitarian aid to get thru.

Morlino felt that we should bolster up the African Union soldiers enough so the crucially needed aid can get thru.

See the following website for more information.



http://www.the-ethic.org/darfur.htm

This is the weekly celebration of Sukkot in the Jewish calendar.

God tells the Jews to move out of their homes for one week, build a temporary structure, and live in it as your main domicile in the early part of October each year.

Now why would God do this?

Here's what the rabbi's say.

1. to commemorate the Jewish flight out of Egypt
2. to remind us that all that we have can be taken from us in an instant
3. to experience joy and happiness (some people work so hard they would NEVER take a week off unless God commands them to!)

My own experiences with Sukkot have been very enriching. Not only did I find feeling the air around me, the sun rising, warming, and setting, and cooling, and all the little creatures I didnt know lived in my backyard to be very relaxing, healing and soothing to my nerves.

It was fun building the little structure, and tends to be a family event where children and parents work cooperatively together on the project. It brings about sweet happiness too.

Children LOVE to hang out in the Suhka or "Hut".

Its like taking a vacation in your own backyard. YOu learn how to live graciously even in the dirt. It makes you feel like you can adapt to changing circumstances. And after socializing with others (its customary to serve your guests apples dipped in honey) camping out, and breathing fresh air, you feel renewed.

I think sukkoth also reminds us of the homeless people all around us. Not every day is sunny. It can get cold, dark, and wet. And NO town allows you just to set up your little "suhka" where you need it. (there is a religious exemption for HOUSED people of course!)

It makes you more aware of the plight of homeless people.
For after a week, when the weather starts to turn wet and cold, homeless people dont have a house to go back into.

from: SF Chronicle

September 3, 2006

Public awareness of the nightmare of genocide in western Sudan is at an all-time high. From Washington to Hollywood, Darfur has become the fashionable topic of conversation. Yet, despite a sea of green wristbands, supplemented by celebrity attention; despite a flood of "never again" pronouncements, supported by congressional bills and amendments; despite various sanctions and resolutions proposed by the United Nations, the systematic annihilation of a people continues.

Why? Because the advocates of ending the genocide are too willing to settle for feel-good measures that didn't solve anything.

As someone who has worked alongside passionate, committed Darfur activists for the better part of the past two years, it pains me to write those words. But the truth is, while nearly single-handedly succeeding in bringing attention to this catastrophe, the majority of Darfur activist groups continue to acquiesce to the litany of ineffectual measures put forth by our elected officials.

From the outset, an alliance of faith-based, humanitarian, human rights and student groups, most prominently represented by the Save Darfur Coalition, have taken a polite, almost deferential, approach to ending the world's worst humanitarian crisis.

Sadly, their shared strategy of collaborating with Congress, the White House and the State Department -- institutions that are inherently designed to deflect, defer and delay any substantive response, while giving the appearance of concerned intent -- has resulted in nothing more than a series of empty promises for tough action against the murderous Sudanese government.

The most glaring example of this ill-fated philosophy has been the "take what they will give us" policy utilized by activist organizations for getting peacekeepers to western Sudan. In September 2004, then-Secretary of State Colin Powell stated that a protection force "in the range of 50,000 troops" was needed to end the violence in Darfur.

In the months that followed, many highly respected authorities, including former Canadian General and U.N. peacekeeper Romeo Dallaire, who, in 1994 tried to warn the world of the impending massacre in Rwanda, echoed similar recommendations. The counterproposal put forth by the international community was twofold: dangling the possibility of sending a multinational protection force of, roughly, 10,000 to 12,000 troops to Darfur, while trumpeting a preference for "an African solution to an African problem."

This distressing rationalization promoted the fallacy that the mere presence of an inexperienced, ill-equipped and undermanned African Union monitoring team, working alone, save for a modicum of recent NATO technical support -- and without a mandate to protect anyone but themselves -- could ensure the safety of millions of defenseless civilians.

Concurrently, not only did most Darfur activist organizations expend an inordinate amount of time and resources lobbying Congress for the continued financing of the ineffective African Union observers, they also failed to challenge the paltry number of peacekeepers designated for the long-rumored -- but phantom -- U.N. mission. This deadly confluence of political expediency and tempered activism served only to perpetuate the growing chaos in Darfur.

This year's U.N./U.S. brokered peace deal between the Sudanese government and only one of the three main Darfur rebel groups has been hailed by activist leaders as a breakthrough. Yet, for anyone with rudimentary knowledge of the crisis, this "milestone" was instantly recognized as worthless.

Not only does the agreement rely on the orchestrators of the genocide to stop themselves and their proxy militias from committing further crimes against humanity, it also solidifies the working relationship between Sudan President Omar al-Bashir and rebel leader Minni Minnawi, who, according to Amnesty International, have now joined forces to brutalize Darfur refugees who recognize the futility of the pact.

Nothing, however, has garnered as much attention within the activist community as the latest scheme to deploy a U.N. security force in Darfur. This plan, which has been promoted by nearly every activist organization working on this issue, has an almost unimaginable fatal flaw: Without permission from the perpetrators of the atrocities, the peacekeepers will be staying home.

Regrettably, it is nearly impossible to find a major Darfur activist group willing to call out the U.N. for adhering to the unconscionable position that sovereignty trumps genocide or criticize NATO for only sending troops to prevent genocide in Europe (see Kosovo, 1999).

In western Sudan, 400,000 people are dead; millions more have been violently displaced and are at risk of losing all humanitarian aid; scores of women and young girls have been and continue to be brutally raped. All of this should lead Darfur activists to one unmistakable conclusion: It is time to take the gloves off.

History has shown that virtually every successful campaign against injustice maximizes the power of three essential ingredients: truth, urgency and action -- the very ingredients that define advocacy. Those elements have been in short supply during this campaign. For Darfur activists to have any hope for success at this late hour, they must dramatically alter their message, their tone and their tactics, pronto.

The upcoming rallies, marches and concerts scheduled this month in San Francisco, New York and other locales also provide the opportunity to add a desperately needed element to this campaign: a series of mass demonstrations involving nonviolent civil disobedience. Without the creation of sustained, escalating public pressure, Darfur activists have virtually no chance of compelling the powers-that-be to take meaningful action.

There is a profound difference between doing what is necessary to end genocide and merely doing something. Thus far, our world's leaders have disgracefully chosen the latter. Yet, if activists fail to summon the courage to fiercely advocate for the people of Darfur, they may be remembered in much the same way.

John Morlino is founder of the Darfur Pledge, www.darfurpledge,org, an all-volunteer grassroots effort to end the genocide in western Sudan. Contact us at insight@sfchronicle.com.

"My own experiences with Sukkot have been very enriching ... I think sukkoth also reminds us of the homeless people all around us."

So I guess your "Baha'i Lie" is finally going the way of the Dodo. Well that's good.

"Every year, God tells us Jews to move out of our homes for one week in order to
1. commemorate the Jewish flight out of Egypt
2. remind us that all that we have can be taken from us in an instant"

Yup, self-victimology as a superstitious mania. Some "religion" you got there

What's the merits of the superstitions in your neo-Druid faith? Some "religion" you got there.

... and all of Earth's sacred life in particular as a mystical presence infinitely larger than myself and my puny ability to comprehend it.

That's not 'superstion.' It's materialist and rationalist. It's a spiritual formulation shared by a majority of "Great Scientists," especially during the Enlightenment when science was still more about pure free-thought and less about politics and sucking ruling class dick

Now your 'Satan-dressed-up-like-Grampa' shit, on the other hand, THAT would be a nut-job superstition!

...looks like a Jewish spiritual idea to you, huh?

That sure isn't what your big zio-Satanist guru Rabbi Schneerson had to say. He constructed a kabbalistic "spiritual" model in which Jews as a SEPARATE SPECIES (not just "race") are the ne plus ultra, eclipsing everything else in importance.

"The difference between a Jewish and a non-Jewish person stems from the common expression: "Let us differentiate." Thus, we do not have a case of profound change in which a person is merely on a superior level. Rather, we have a case of "let us differentiate"

BETWEEN TOTALLY DIFFERENT SPECIES [!!!!!]

This is what needs to be said about the body: the body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of [members] of all nations of the world...

A Jew was not created as a means for some [other] purpose; he himself is the purpose, since

THE SUBSTANCE OF ALL [DIVINE] EMANATIONS WAS CREATED ONLY TO SERVE THE JEWS

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" [Genesis 1:1] means that [the heavens and the earth] were created for the sake of the Jews, who are called the "beginning." This means everything, all developments, all discoveries, the creation, including the "heavens and the earth - are vanity compared to the Jews.

THE IMPORTANT THINGS ARE THE JEWS, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT EXIST FOR ANY [OTHER] AIM; THEY THEMSELVES **ARE** [THE DIVINE] AIM."

from Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson's 1965 book 'Gatherings of Conversations,' as reported by Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky in 'Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel,' Pluto Press, London, 1999; pp. 59 to 61
http://tinyurl.com/m9wyv

This is an obscene heresy to me, and it's a mentality zionists clearly express through their ACTIONS and ATTITUDES -- things that speak louder than your words

So obviously, you don't realize that the Lubuvitch don't consider themselves Zionist.

So of the volumes of writings someone produces, you cherry pick a line (that may or may not been accuately translated, and may or may no actually have been said), and form your entire hypothesis about 14 mllion people.

Can we say "bigot"?
I know we can

To be quite frank, I wouldn't trust you to quote even from the original if it were open in front of you now, so there's no way I'll rely on Duke as a conduit of untampered Jewish writings. Just like Tia, I won't settle for less than seeing this quote at least in sources lackind an agenda about Judaism. Go peddle your racist Duyke-ish kool-aid to 'toady'.

-"Our corrupt military morality, which tells us that our soldiers must endanger their lives to protect enemy civilians, is the reason we lost the war," said Eliyahu. "Anti-Semites demand that we use Christian morality while our enemies act like barbarians," said Drori, accusing the IDF of adopting "Christian morality" as its own.
US rabbis urge change in IDF war code -

Like they need any 'moral' support.

EDITOR: I'm reposting a response to another hate/insult off-topic comment you haven't hidden.

=================================================================

The TWit dangled debunked racist agitprop in our faces.

Tee Wdumbya:
"That sure isn't what your big zio-Satanist guru Rabbi Schneerson had to say. He constructed a kabbalistic "spiritual" model in which Jews as a SEPARATE SPECIES (not just "race") are the ne plus ultra, eclipsing everything else in importance... belch puke fart "

This mendacious racist shit is one of the pet concoctions of your David Duke blood brother. There's nothing for me to learn about Judaism from avowed racists like you and him.

your zio-Satanist guru Schneerson wrote it.

Then two more Jews, Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky, reported it

Of course David Duke directs people's attention to this. With maniacs like Schneerson saying such things, he doesn't have to take the tactical risk of making such things up

The problem many orthodox Jews have with the establishment of the State of Israel is that the Torah indicates that the Messiah will will gather the exiled Jews and rebuild the Temple- the Messiah and not the United Nations.

This does not preclude Jews from settling in the Land of Israel. To the contrary, living in the Land of Israel is considered to be a great deed.

When "we" have pro-Israel rallies locally, we have representation from all parts of the Community (if it isn't Shabbat). We have had Chabad represented as well.

Why context matters- why cherry picking one-liners without examining context is a study in intellectual inadequacy:

A panda walks into a bar. Orders a sandwich and a cold one. When he is finished, he takes and a gun, fires it into the air and walks out the door.
The customers of the bar are baffled. "Why'd he do that?" Another customer brings up Wikipedia on his laptop and shows the group "Panda: eats shoots and leaves"

The following post has status hidden:

Schneerson urges Jews to return to Judaism
by Becky Johnson • Saturday, Oct. 14, 2006 at 11:21 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

More on Rabbi Schneerson found at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Mendel_Schneerson

TW can note that there is no reference to Jews being a separate species in any part of this long article.

Also, as widely respected as this Jewish orthodox leader was, there is no reference to him claiming that the State of Israeli is illegitimate.

those who are enamored by the Neturei Karta should take note.

add your comments

NOTE TO EDITORS: If you are going to allow TW's post condemning Schneerson for calling Jews "a separate species" you should allow this rebuttal post to remain up too. To do otherwise is just plain censorship.

He seems to want to C &P the exact same crap that just keeps getting hidden.
Time to follow the lead of
http://www.indybay.org/

It seems to want to Spew & Crap the exact same racist and hatist crap that just keeps getting debunked and laughed at.
Time to follow the lead of
http://www.indybay.org/ and stormfront.com.

You don't have an original thought in your acorn at all do you?

when you make yourself the eternal victim it does tend to aggravate what ever psychosis you already had raging behind your racist zionism. You are a danger to Jews everywhere.
If you pretend to be their spokesman.

Since I helped start the Santa Cruz IMC back in the fall of 2000,
I am especially disheartened about what has happened to that IMC.

Look especially at its "Palestine" page. (Readers note:there is no "Israel" page showing institutional bias on that site)

Many of the articles that are posted on LA.IMC are also posted at Indybay.org/palestine

However, where they generate dozens if not hundreds of comments here, most of the articles have ONE or LESS comments posted. By squelching one-half of the conversation, they have virtually squelched ALL conversation.

Most of the comments posted have some kind of innane response like "Great Article! Don't see this in the MSM."

These comments were most likely posted by the same person who posted the lead article.

What used to be an active, busy, dynamic site, where issues are thoroughly examined by all parties ---doing research and presenting arguments---
is now an empty, one-sided, diatribe against anything Jewish or Israeli---with readership dropping precipitiously.

SF.IMC doesnt even take comments anymore.

UTAH.IMC is a cesspool of unedited diatribes, porn, and advertisements

LA.IMC!!! Please take note of the wrong way to run an IMC as demonstrated by these examples.

Censorship kills sites. But so do lack of committed monitors.

The solution is to have a diverse, vibrant IMC, which follows its own rules evenhandedly and fairly.

Can't stop laughing...

please...

stop...

ahem, isn't this supposed to be a *serious* thread?
You are defeating its purpose.

- I won't be astounded if this site does down -
Oh for crying out load.
That's exactly what your agency has been attempting to do for YEARS.
I have seen it all.
The snitch buttons are a pain in the ass, aren't they? And as soon as johnk gets a handle on the other little tricks you've been playing, this site will do just fine.
It's has been doing fine despite the constant assaults from your agency and has been evolving under this attack. I believe that the LA IMC model has been very successful even with all of your 'help'.
Yeah, ' I won't be astounded if this site does down ' in fact, you would have an orgasm.
In your dreams,.

SERIOUSLY WRITES: "It's has been doing fine despite the constant assaults from your agency and has been evolving under this attack. I believe that the LA IMC model has been very successful even with all of your 'help'."

BECKY: I personally do NOT want to see LA.IMC "come down" or lose credibility or lose readers. I became a card-carrying member of LA.IMC in August of 2000. I was one of the founding members of Santa Cruz Indymedia in the Fall of 2000.

I am a longtime contributer to IMC's everywhere on issues of homelessness, police brutality, welfare reform, the death penalty, the drug war, the Yugoslavian bombing, and other issues as well.

I am a vigorous supporter of a "people's" media.
The concept of open-publishing are worth fighting for.

But because I generally support Israel, I have been called a spy, subjected to humiliating depictions, been censored, had my IP address blocked at the IMC I helped to found, been excluded from the Santa Cruz Free Radio Collective, fired from Street Spirit after 10 years of reporting on homelessness in Santa Cruz, and called a "right-wing bigot."

Okay. Its not about me. I get it.

But my experiences only demonstrate to me that something is rotten in the state of denmark.

The Israel-bashing, denigration of Jews, Judaism and the Israeli people has to stop. So does the censorship.

That is why I am here. To tell you guys to stop it.

As well as the right to and delight in slamming the editors as puerile racists. Just look how easily juhnk's comment wherein he tried to challenge the defenition of 56 Muslim states as such and whitewash the discriminatory racist nature of their regimes was debunked.

You will NEVER be allowed to "tell" us, order us, etc. to do ANYTHING. You will also not be allowed to spew your desperate bullshit zionist propaganda (i.e. propaganda pictures depicting Palestine as a beach resort, etc. etc.)
We get your pro-israel point of view ad nauseum everywhere else.
You comment incessantly on most/all of the threads/articles related to Israel, maybe 1% of the time on other stuff. You and your ilk are rarely read, and make zero impact.

You will NEVER be allowed to "tell" us, order us, etc. to do ANYTHING.

Wrong. People like Gehrig and Becky's courageous decison to fight for an anti-racist IMC has been a continued source of inspiration to many lesser beings.


You will also not be allowed to spew your desperate bullshit zionist propaganda

Because truth goes against the agenda? Is that the problem? No, we will continue to fight for the truth, here, and on the streets.


You comment incessantly on most/all of the threads/articles related to Israel, maybe 1% of the time on other stuff.

We point out the lies. If we comment on many of the threads, its because many of them are full of lies.


You and your ilk are rarely read, and make zero impact.

Au contraire. Becky and Gehrig are a continued source of not only information, but of inspiration. I make a point of reading whatever they post.

1. Becky will never tell us what to do, no matter how much you fantasize--and neither iwll you.
2. You, predictably, failed to address Becky's incessant posting of pro-israel anti-Palestine propaganda pics (like the one I referred to of the suppossed Palestinians dancing on a tropical beach w/ palm trees--looked like Tel Aviv)
How is that "correcting"--that is pure PR work and you even know it. The reason I say this, is that I've witnessed you--a few times--have the courage to not automatically side with the zionist home team and think for yourself.
3. gehrig this and gehrig that--he has demonstrated--esp. recently--the intelligence of an ant, making idiotic name calling quips like those of the Yidiot.
4. At least you didn't try to defend SJ/AJ/fresca. Kudos for that.

I stand corrected, let me re-phrase for you SJ, Becky, Tia, and others may "tell" all dya long, but their "orders" will not be adhered to and they will be "telling" them to a wall. Tanslation: Tell it to the hand, zionazi puke.

We don't enjoy much power/influence in the media outside of indy/alternative media--I agree with you wholheartedly. That is the problem--the vast majority of U.S. media esp. inundates us w/ the pro-israel point of view.
We come here for an alternative to the right wing media.
Gotta go back to the homework.
Have fun verbally masturbating ea. other and name calling all critics of Israel all day and all night, yet again.
Bye-bye.

EDITOR: you still haven't removed that hateful insulting abd off-topic post which I've been retorting to, yet you keep on hiding my retort. How much longer do you intend to perpetuate this childish stupidity? A week? A month ? A year? I'll keep coming back here to repost this comment until the crap I'm responding to is hidden or this comment remains up. =============================================================== Not negotiating with a neo-Nazi dumbfuck like you. Religious rites are real unlike the nauseating racist drivel you pull out of your ass. You'll be made to understand that your forgeries carry a price tag. Fuck off, spamboy. Your whole demeanor signals impotence and insecurity. Here's a Sukkot Priestly Benediction ceremony at the Western Wall.

"We don't enjoy much power/influence in the media outside of indy/alternative media--I agree with you wholheartedly. "

One of your psychological mechanisms of defense prevented you from grasping a very simple reality I reminded you of -- that you've got zero impact *everywhere* outside of Indymedia. This include every place outside of any medium, too.

Dismissed, skippy palinazi.

On Sukkot, the fall harvest festival, we leave our homes and dwell in temporary booths (sukkot) for seven days. We
do so in remembrance of our agrarian roots, in thanksgiving for the bounty of life, and with the hope that the world
will one day be redeemed. As Rabbi Arthur Waskow writes, “We walk into the sukkah – the fragile field hut, open to
the light of moon and stars, that our forebears lived in while they gathered in the grain. We dangle apples and onions,
oranges and peppers, from its leafy roof. And we feel the joy that for a moment life is so safe, the world so loving,
that we can live in these open-ended huts without fear” (Seasons of Our Joy, p. 48).
This year, as we prepare for Sukkot, let us not forget about another group of people living in fragile huts: the people
of Darfur. Unlike us, however, Darfurians are not celebrating in their makeshift dwellings. Since February 2003,
more than 400,000 people in the region have been murdered, and over 2.5 million men, women, and children have
been displaced. Survivors languish in bleak refugee camps along the Sudan-Chad border, suffering from malnutrition,
disease, and waves of violence.
The recent “Global Day for Darfur” helped to stir world leaders into action: President Bush appointed a special
envoy to Sudan, and the recalcitrant Sudanese government agreed to extend the African Union’s mandate until the
end of the year, with the number of troops likely increasing from 7,000 to 11,000.
But the situation in Darfur remains perilous. Government-sponsored attacks and rebel hostilities continue to wreak
havoc upon the innocent people of western Sudan. Two years after our government declared the crisis in Darfur a
genocide, women and girls continue to be raped and boys and men murdered. Humanitarian workers can reach only
50 percent of those in need of assistance.
In our Sabbath and festival liturgy we ask God to spread a sukkah of peace over us, over the house of Israel, and over
Jerusalem. This year, let us actively engage in the creation of a universal sukkah of peace by including the people of
Darfur in our holiday observances.
Seven Sukkot Actions for Darfur:
1. Dedicate a wall of your sukkah to Darfur. Hang protest signs, post pictures of Darfurians, or print prayers
written for the innocent people of Sudan by contemporary religious leaders. See the prayers of Archbishop
Desmond Tutu; the Archbishop of Canterbury; Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra, Chairman of the Interfaith Relations
Committee of the Muslim Council of Britain; and the Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks of Great Britain at
www.dayfordarfur.org.
2. Following the custom of inviting ushpizin, special guests (in body and in spirit) to your sukkah, add various
peacemakers and activists to your holiday guest list. Read the works of Mahatama Gandhi, Martin Luther
King, Jr., Abraham Joshua Heschel, or Mother Teresa with family and friends. What wisdom do these great
souls offer us today?

3. Use the designated biblical readings for Sukkot, including Zachariah 14:1-21 and Ecclesiastes, as sources for
conversation about Jewish visions of redemption and of the realities of human sin and failing. How might we
enact the lofty ideals of the High Holy Days in the world?
4. Dedicate a fixed sum of money for humanitarian aid in Darfur (www.savedarfur.org). Consider making it a
multiple of 70 – the number of sacrifices given on Sukkot in ancient days representing the 70 nations of the
world.
5. Call President Bush (from your cell phone in the sukkah!) and urge him to continue pressuring the Sudanese
government to accept the deployment of a robust U.N. peacekeeping force (under UN Security Council
resolution 1706). Call the White House comment line at (202) 456-1111. For a telephone script, please visit
www.ajws.org/darfur and click on “Take Action for Darfur.”
6. Log onto www.darfurscores.org and see how your members of Congress have voted on issues relating to
Darfur. With this information in hand, contact your elected officials and demand of them that they keep
Darfur on the congressional agenda. Let them know that this is an issue that voters care about.
7. Share your knowledge about the genocide in Darfur with others – perhaps seven new people over the seven
days of Sukkot – and encourage them to take action today.