CULVER CITY, CA, 10 September 2006--Late this afternoon, as much of the world reflected on 9-11, the United American Committee, the Minutemen, and the Coptic Christians of America stood at the King Fahd Mosque calling out, "You kill Jews!" before hanging an effigy of Osama bin Laden on a makeshift gallows in the back of a rented pick up truck.

It was a grotesque, hideous image--a Black man in the U.S. performing a lynching-in-effigy.  On one level it was a bizarre caricature--the lynching wasn't real, so maybe the Black man, posing for the press and agitating his predominantly white audience, wasn't real either.  At another level, the historical cascade of violence from whites lynching African-Americans to an African-American lynching Osama bin Laden--today transformed into a surrogate for all Muslims--was a breathstopping recollection of scenes from a century ago.

The anti-Muslim groups stood opposite the mosque, on the southwest corner of Huron and Washington Streets.  Counter protestors had secured the area in front of the mosque before the persecutors - arrogantly flaunting U.S. flags in an equation of religious intolerance and patriotism - arrived.  Both groups slowly added to their numbers in what would become a tense stand-off as the adversaries spilled into Huron Street.  Heated, near-violent, face-to-face confrontations erupted, at times quelled only by intrepid Christian and Muslim clergy people walking between the groups.  A single police cruiser and two vacant cop motorcycles sat placidly fifty yards away, at the 7-11 across the street, leaving the Muslims and their supporters to protect themselves from the aggressors.

The United American Committee is headed by Jesse Petrilla, a former UC-Irvine student who made his mark in college by showing offensive drawings of the Prophet Muhammad at the university, the same drawings that sparked riots in Europe.  The Black man who hung the effigy, Ted Hayes, himself a member of UAC, brought a handful of white Minutemen to back him up.  The presence of the Copts, who arranged for the demonstration permit, brought the bloody Egyptian streetfighting between the minority Coptic Church and Islamic revivalists to Los Angeles. The anti-immigrant group Save Our State was slated to appear, but evidently reconsidered.

Against the eighty or so anti-Muslim protestors, stood a hundred and fifty-member alliance of neighborhood religious groups and those who have been fighting in the streets against the rising tide of racism and fascism in Southern California.  Hamilton United Methodist Church, the Interfaith Community United for Justice and Peace, the United University Church at USC, Culver City Presbyterian Church, the Culver City Interfaith Alliance, the Culver Palms United Methodist Church, Unity and Diversity World Fellowship, and the Community Call to Action and Accountability of Bethel AME Church stood in solidarity and prayer with members of the King Fahd Mosque during the demonstration.

As they prayed, the zealots on the opposite corner caterwauled "America the Beautiful."

One church representative said, "Jesus says 'Love thy enemies.'"  The president of the Culver City Interfaith Alliance added a quote from George Washington: "We give to bigotry no sanction and to persecution no assistance."  A spokesperson for the group United University lamented, "What's really sad is that people are learning that living in fear is the way to live."  The representatives of the Unity and Diversity World Fellowship went to heart of the issue: "Fascism and ignorance polarizes people," one said.

Meanwhile, other counter protestors chanted, "Brothers, sisters, have no fear--Muslims are all welcome here."  They continued, "Black, Latino, Arab, Asian, and white; Stop the hate, stop the hate, defend our civil rights!"

Shortly after 5:00 p.m., Hayes' pickup truck arrived.  A designated "executioner" climbed into the truck bed, and Hayes covered the executioner's face in a black executioner's hood.  The unidentified man donned a black bathrobe, and he and Hayes looped the noose dangling from  a makeshift yardarm around the 3/4 size doll, which was dressed in military fatigues with "Bin Laden" on the pocket and topped with a Bin Laden mask.  They hoisted the figure into the air as their supporters cheered and gleefully lobbed shoes at the effigy.  Hayes finished the ritual by blowing on what appeared to be a small shofar.

Then Hayes called on the Muslims to denounce Bin Laden and terrorism, claiming, "We love Muslims," and "Today, the American people have justice!"  A moment later he pointed to two men wearing embroidered kufis and bellowed, "You are terrorists!"  Then he pronounced to the Muslims gathered a few yards away, "We are here to make you better Muslims. We believe in freedom."

The counter protestors replied with "No more lynch mobs!" and "UAC, racist slime--being Muslim is not a crime!"

The King Fahd mosque was first targeted by the Jewish Defense League.  JDL leaders Irv Rubin and Earl Krugel were arrested on terrorism charges. They had guns, five pounds of explosives, and plans to blow up not only the mosque but the office of an Arab American Congressman, Darrel Issa of San Clemente.  Krugel allegedly said on tape that Arabs "need a wakeup call" and the JDL needed to do something to one of their "filthy" mosques.

Woshippers at the King Fahd Mosque were shocked.  "He's as evil as the other evil people who did damage to innocent lives," one said of Rubin. "The mosque would have been filled with hundreds of people.

Rubin reportedly killed himself in prison; Krugel was murdered while in prison, perhaps by neo-Nazis.

The UAC has links through its communications director to the JDL.

The homegrown terrorists of the UAC chose the mosque because, according to the 9-11 Commission Report, two of the alleged Twin Tower bombers had "spent time at the King Fahd mosque and made some acquaintances there" during a two-week visit in January, 2000--eighteen months before the attack.  

The report speculates that the alleged bombers made contact with an imam at the mosque, Fahad al Thumairy, but concluded that "we have not found evidence that Thumairy provided assistance to the two operatives."  Thumairy was subsequently expelled from the mosque, and was not permitted to re-enter the U.S. after a trip to Saudi Arabia. 

The director of the mosque, Usman Madha, agreed to an interview before the demonstration.  When asked about the meaning of this protest in Los Angeles, Madha commented on the UAC, "The protestors should, if they really care about the United States, become part of America and want peace.  They should remember the people who lost their lives innocently.  They should turn their anger into energy and do something constructive."   On the "fatwa" against demanded by the anti-Muslim protestors, Madha explained, "A fatwa is not the domain of a religious institution," and wondered with some anger, "Why are we obliged to give any sort of statement?  Who are they to demand that we do something?  A fatwa can not be given by anybody out there," and he waved his hand derisively.  When asked about being targeted, the director claimed the mosque was the "wrong target."  He said it is "a religious institution, not involved in politics.  It should not be a target.  No religious institution should be.  It's hate-mongering." 

Madha turned to the question of the alleged bombers' presence at the mosque.  "Any religious institution--a mosque, church, synagogue, Hindu temple--a person or people can walk in, come and pray and leave, but do they actually tell the people [at the institution] they are going do something?  People who deliver parcels . . . if they do something wrong, does that mean the Post Office, a government agency, is responsible?  Somebody could walk in, walk out, and do something crazy.  Does that mean the mosque is responsible?"

"Muslims are part of America.  All immigrants, and native Muslims, our African-American brothers and sisters, are here to build our lives and this country, not to destroy it.  Being here is an immigrant's dream.  We are as patriotic as anybody, we love this country."

Hayes grabbed his bullhorn and intoned, "The judgment of God is upon you," pointing a long, chilling finger at a Muslim who had debated him.

As the near-battle on the street concluded, one counterprotestor confronted Hayes, looking directly at him. He said, "I've never seen a Black man leading a lynch mob before.  Let me repeat:  I've never seen a Black man leading a lynch mob before.  I've seen overseers.  I've seen Clarence Thomas, I've seen Condi Rice, and I've seen you.  You're an overseer, you're a servant of the white man--Uncle Ted, Uncle Tom."  Hayes quietly thanked the speaker and turned away.

It was nearly 6:00 p.m. when the departing UAC, Minutemen, Copts, and their supporters were pursued across the street to the vacant lot next to the 7-11.  There, they made plans to burn the effigy at dawn Monday morning at the homeless refuge known as the Dome Village in downtown Los Angeles.

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I LOL'd. There wasn't a connection between lynch mobs and anti-Muslims wackos.... until UAC did this demo and lynched that doll.

What will be the next KKK move that the UAC + SOS + MMP people do? Will they start harrassing "mixed couples"?

666 THE DEVIL (GEORGE WARMONGER BUSH) : "Sorry to Oil the 9-11 Attacks, the NORAD Stand Down Order, the Preplanted Explosives in the WTC, the Anthrax Attacks, the Framing of Islam by BUSH NEWS NAZIS CNN,NBC,ABC,CBS,FOX, the USSA Patriot Act, the Airport USSA Patriot Games, the Islamophobia, the Racial Profiling, the Fake Bin Laden Tapes, Today's Fake No. 2 Al CIAda Tape, and the Oil For Bombs Program in the Middle East but Oil comes First. FILL HER UP ?????????"

Selection of quotes from the lead article are by Becky Johnson.

FROM: "Lynch Mob Attacks Mosque" by Leslie Radford

Sept 11 2006


"Counter protestors had secured the (permitted) area in front of the mosque before the (permit holders) arrived (carrying) U.S. flags."

(There was no violence but rather) "face-to-face (discussions) (occurred). "

A single police cruiser and two vacant cop motorcycles sat placidly fifty yards away, at the 7-11 across the street, leaving the Muslims and their supporters (completely unbothered).

"The Copts, who (had actually obtained) the demonstration permit, (instead of demanding their permitted space, took a position) on the opposite corner (and sang) "America the Beautiful."

"(Ted) Hayes' pickup truck arrived. They "hoisted" "a doll"(signifying Osama Bin Laden) "into the air" and "Hayes finished the ritual by blowing on ... a small shofar."

"Hayes called on the Muslims to denounce Bin Laden and terrorism, claiming, "We love Muslims."

A moment later he pointed to two men wearing embroidered kufis (patterned after those that Arafat wore when he planned plane hijackings, the Munich massacre of the Israeli Olympic team, and rocket attacks against Jewish preschools) and bellowed, "You are terrorists!"

"UAC chose the mosque because, according to the 9-11 Commission Report, two of the alleged Twin Tower bombers had "spent time at the King Fahd mosque and made some acquaintances there" during a two-week visit in January, 2000--eighteen months before the attack.

"The report speculates that the alleged bombers made contact with an imam at the mosque, Fahad al Thumairy, but concluded that "we have not found evidence that Thumairy provided assistance to the two operatives." Thumairy was subsequently expelled from the mosque, and was not permitted to re-enter the U.S. after a trip to Saudi Arabia."

"As the (demonstration) on the street concluded, one counterprotestor confronted Hayes (and said) "You're an overseer, you're a servant of the white man--Uncle Ted, Uncle Tom." Hayes quietly thanked the speaker and turned away."

I'm having a little difficulty following your form here, so if I misunderstand what you're trying to say, please excuse me.

You say: "Counter protestors had secured the (permitted) area in front of the mosque before the (permit holders) arrived (carrying) U.S. flags."

My response: I don't know what area was permitted, whether it was directly in front of the mosque, across Huron, or across Washington. There was a small group across Washington early on, but they either went home or joined the larger group on Huron.

You say: (There was no violence but rather) "face-to-face (discussions) (occurred). "

My response: "Discussions," like hell! People were yelling, name-calling, nose-to-nose, in-your-face shouting, hands clenched, teeth gritted, spit spraying with more vitriol than I've seen almost anywhere in public. And if you don't think violence can be verbal, then you have had a charmed life for a woman.

You say: "A single police cruiser and two vacant cop motorcycles sat placidly fifty yards away, at the 7-11 across the street, leaving the Muslims and their supporters (completely unbothered)."

My response: "And unprotected." It seems odd to me that Petrilla assured SOS that the police would be there in numbers and then the cops backed off. I can only think that he who arranges for the cops can also un-arrange them, leaving the Muslims wide open.

You say: "The Copts, who (had actually obtained) the demonstration permit, (instead of demanding their permitted space, took a position) on the opposite corner (and sang) "America the Beautiful."

My response: Again, I don't know where the permitted space was, but I did give the Copts credit for obtaining the permit earlier on. Maybe the Copts sang "America the Beautiful" elegantly. But in that case, the UAC and the minutemen should really chill out, because their flattened, shouted version overwhelmed any good singing that was going on. Or maybe you're suggesting that I omit the list of churches represented, I just don't know, and I can't imagine why.

You say: "(Ted) Hayes' pickup truck arrived. They "hoisted" "a doll"(signifying Osama Bin Laden) "into the air" and "Hayes finished the ritual by blowing on ... a small shofar."

My response: Are you saying the intervening events didn't occur? But they did. That the details are incorrect? But they're not. That I should refer to Hayes as "Ted Hayes" throughout? I don't see the point.

You and I both say: "Hayes called on the Muslims to denounce Bin Laden and terrorism, claiming, "We love Muslims."

You say: "A moment later he pointed to two men wearing embroidered kufis (patterned after those that Arafat wore when he planned plane hijackings, the Munich massacre of the Israeli Olympic team, and rocket attacks against Jewish preschools) and bellowed, "You are terrorists!"

My response: I don't know much about Arafat's wardrobe or his fashion sense or what Arafat has to do with this event (did I miss an effigy hanging?), but I do know similar kufis are widely available starting at $2.99. Timothy McVeigh wore jeans, and so do I.

You and I both say: "The UAC chose the mosque because, according to the 9-11 Commission Report, two of the alleged Twin Tower bombers had "spent time at the King Fahd mosque and made some acquaintances there" during a two-week visit in January, 2000--eighteen months before the attack. "

My response: I include the description "homegrown terrorists" to UAC. I wouldn't have, except that hanging an effigy in order to strike fear into an institution adn its people strikes me as the tactics of a terrorist, or at least a terrorist wannabe.

And I think we both say, "The report speculates that the alleged bombers made contact with an imam at the mosque, Fahad al Thumairy, but concluded that "we have not found evidence that Thumairy provided assistance to the two operatives." Thumairy was subsequently expelled from the mosque, and was not permitted to re-enter the U.S. after a trip to Saudi Arabia."

You say: "As the (demonstration) on the street concluded, one counterprotestor confronted Hayes (and said) "You're an overseer, you're a servant of the white man--Uncle Ted, Uncle Tom." Hayes quietly thanked the speaker and turned away."

My response: I will absolutely stand by the full transcription of these remarks to Ted.

Becky, I've seen enough of your modus operandi to know that you're going to come back to this time and time again until you have the last word, but don't expect me to respond. I rarely engage in more than one round here, and that's only when someone wants clarification on something I wrote. And I might suggest that if you don't like my style, you write your own stories and join me in open publishing. If you're auditioning to be my editor, I don't think it would work out.

I love to see zionist shill Becky Johnson get checked, once again. And, he called her before she even did it, re: returning to this thread over and over to get the last word. Now it doesn't matter how many times she returns, she's lost...LOL!

REPLY TO LESLIE: My piece "Reading Between the LInes" simply cherry-picked the REAL information in your article by editing out your biased editorial commentary imbedded in the "news" article. Since I wasn't at the event, I have to rely on eye-witnesses such as yourself to inform myself on what happened. Reading between the lines I learned a lot.

Look at the title you chose for the article: "Lynch Mob Attacks Mosque" when there was no "attack" or even a threat of an attack. It was a protest against the terrorist attacks on Sept 11th which were planned and carried out by Osama bin Laden with, possibly, the help of some of those who attended that particular mosque.

It was not an attack on "Muslims." Hayes even said "We love Muslims" which contradicted the sign Marcus (finally) posted which said "America -Yes Islam--no". While I disagree with the message on the sign, for a "racist" comment it's pretty mild and ambiguous. It COULD mean that that person thinks people shouldn't be drawn to Islam.

Your vivid language regarding lynchings in the south by the KKK is just another red herring as I am sure Ted Hayes was against those lynchings. Hayes didn't hang a generic Muslim----he hung an effigy of the head of a terrorist group that has killed more Americans than any other terrorist in recent history. Your depiction that this was an "attack" on a "mosque" is just so much hyperbole.

And how many times can you say "racist" in a short article? The only racist comment you included was when one of YOUR counter-protesters called Hayes an "Uncle Tom."

Can you be sure that mosque played NO ROLE in the 9-11 attacks?

LESLIE RADFORD WRITES: "My response: "Discussions," like hell! People were yelling, name-calling, nose-to-nose, in-your-face shouting, hands clenched, teeth gritted, spit spraying with more vitriol than I've seen almost anywhere in public. And if you don't think violence can be verbal, then you have had a charmed life for a woman."

BECKY: An animated discussion, if it is free of immediate threats of violence, and since you didn't mention any, I assume there weren't any---is still talk. It is not violence. It may be unpleasant. It may be loud and ruffle feathers. But as long as people are TALKING to each other, they aren't shooting each other or beating each other up.

A permitted demonstration is a legal activity. Your characterization of this as a "mob" "attacking" "a mosque" is meant to misinform readers of the actual nature of the event.

LESLIE RADFORD WROTE: "My response: "And unprotected." It seems odd to me that Petrilla assured SOS that the police would be there in numbers and then the cops backed off. I can only think that he who arranges for the cops can also un-arrange them, leaving the Muslims wide open."

BECKY: Didn't you say that the counter-protesters outnumbered the protesters by 2 to 1? Wouldn't the protesters ALSO need protection from YOUR group of angry, spitting, church people? Since no violence occurred, the police had nothing to do but watch in boredom. Isn't that what happened? That's what I read in your article. You wrote it. YOU were there.


LESLIE RADFORD WROTE: "I don't know much about Arafat's wardrobe or his fashion sense"

BECKY: Ignorance is bliss. If you don't know what the Keffiyeh represents, then maybe you shouldn't be writing articles. Yassir Arafat wore just such a keffiyeh as he planned all sorts of violent attacks on innocent Jews. Those who take up his mantle, are representing his legacy of plane hijackings, kidnappings, and suicide bombings as well as Palestinian independence.

LESLIE RADFORD WRITES: "hanging an effigy in order to strike fear into an institution"

BECKY: That is YOUR interpretation. In NONE of the literature about the protest or in any of the speeches given by the organizers, did they say this was an attack on Islam.
They clearly stated they are against terrorism and in your article you report that Hayes invited the Muslim congregation to join him in denouncing terrorism. He hung the effigy to SHAME the institution for its complicity in 9-11 or for its silence in not opposing Bin Laden.


LESLIE RADFORD WRITES: "don't expect me to respond"

BECKY: Yes, I know that to have a debate on a level-playing field with someone who is knowledgable is the LAST thing you want to do. You would rather preach to the choir or to the uninformed who mindlessly believe your pejorative language and your biased reporting.

I have one question for you. Did the King Fahd Mosque ever issue a statement condemning Bin Laden and the SEpt. 11th attack?

BECKY: Yes, I know that to have a debate on a level-playing field with someone who is knowledgable is the LAST thing you want to do. You would rather preach to the choir or to the uninformed who mindlessly believe your pejorative language and your biased reporting.


And she is absolutely right - but with the editors running interference around here- with any whisper of dissent deleted, no one is ever held accountable for their choice of language.

re. "right on" Does Becky talk to herself about herself often?

Start w/ Becky's good friend Lee Kaplan for a protrait of a right wing basked case:
http://kaplanwatch.blogspot.com/

also, for more infor re: pro-israel bias in the mainstream media (w/; studies and links to other sites that back them up)
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/

Off topic like this?
http://la.indymedia.org/news/?keyword=&author=&comments=yes&display=f&year=&month=&day=&medium=&language_id=&category=0&sort=&limit=30
(zio-spam-fits)

Right on Becky!!!

OMG somebody's forcing Becky Johnson to read Leslie Radford on Indymedia! And apparently somebody's keeping her from reading and watching the mainstream coverage of the protest! Please, somebody, go free Becky!

Of course the UAC was attacking Muslims--if the UAC just wanted to make a statement about bin Laden they could have gone to any park, but no, they had to stand outside a mosque. If they wanted to challenge just anybody to prove their loyalty, they could have gone to City Hall for example, but no, they challenged Muslims. Much of the Islamic world has condemned the attacks. But that's not good enough for UAC--it has to be THIS mosque on UAC's terms under duress and with whatever media UAC can drum up. The mosque didn't take the bait--they didn't see any credibility in UAC or any reason they should accept the judgment of UAC, whoever they are besides a college punk and a "homeless advocate."

Let's try this--simple analogy, without any intention of comparing bin Laden to Jesus. Some group appears out of no where, and not once, but twice, stands outside Becky's temple and demands the congregants apologize for crucifying Jesus. Let's make it dramatic--they bring along some guy lashed to a cross and dressed like Jesus, complete with stigmata, and all the media they can whip up. Becky would be the first one screaming that it was an attack, it was racist or anti-semitic or whatever, and that whatever group it was had no standing to demand any such thing.

But maybe Becky can free herself using her magic powers. She seems to know, EVEN WITHOUT ATTENDING, whether there were threats of violence (and about that bloody lip I guess), and what the donut-eaters were thinking while the clerics did their job for them, while the pigs were parked too far away to see jack. But Becky knows, from wherever she was.

Becky knows that Leslie Radford meant to say the UAC are racists, even though Radford didn't say that. That Radford "meant to mislead people."<./p>

Becky knows what Ted Hayes was thinking, that Ted is against lynching African-Americans, but Ted thinks this lynching of an effigy is OK. Becky even sounds pretty sure that the mosque "aided terrorists," even though the 9-11 Commission looked into it specifically and couldn't make the connection.

Sadly, she doesn't know the difference between a kafiya and a kufi. Sorry, Becky, I don't see any kafiyas in any of the pictures, but I do see a kufi. Radford provided a very long hyperlink so you could see one, too, if you'd bothered to look.

You want a debate? Over here.

It's been a long time since I've stepped back over to the left wing version of racism. One phrase, Zionist Shill, deligitimises any constructive criticism one may have of this poor Becky person. It seems anyone who is pro-Jewish or pro-Israel, no matter where they stand on other issues, even if they do criticise thier respective governments for being flawed, is automatically a shill. That is the definition of racism. On top of that, I have a story to tell. That famous head scarf mentioned in this article was being flown as a flag by a Pakistani farmers market salesman the day India was bombed. I used to love his chutney and samosas. But on that day, when he had never flown one before, he chose to fly it as a symbol of terrorist success. There was nothing said between us, I understood it to be the truth because that scarf means solidarity with people who kill. That was the last samosa I'll have for a while, since he's the only vendor in the hood, but I stand by my right to protest terror. I believe in Ghandi, MLK, and others like them. Arafat is not one of them. And the Kufi, or Kafiya, as it is called in the multiple languages there are, is a direct symbol of Arafat, a man who robbed his people blind and killed as many innocent arabs as jews.

Now as for the protest, at least they didn't vandalise sneakily at night, they were honest and open about Muslim complacency in fascist terror, However, I would rather stand on the side of those who joined hands to stop hatred. Those people have a better chance of making change. If we want responsability and accountability we have to unite instead of dividing and give Muslims a reason to feel safe and secure as well.

no, only the ones who see a Home for the Jews based on the ruins of Palestine and the people who lived there before these Zionists came in to push the farmer and herders who never had an army, into the sea and there is no way to make it nice.

A KAFFIYEH IS A TRADITIONAL HEAD SCARF WORN TO PROTECT ONESELF FROM THE HEAT OF THE DESERT SUN IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

A KUFI ON THE OTHER HAND IS A cap.

Ceeeeeeee AAAAAAAAAAAA Peeeeeeee

C- A - P

CAN YOU SAY "CAP?

It's been a long time since I've stepped back over to the left wing version of racism. One phrase, Zionist Shill, deligitimises any constructive criticism one may have of this poor Becky person. It seems anyone who is pro-Jewish or pro-Israel, no matter where they stand on other issues, even if they do criticise thier respective governments for being flawed, is automatically a shill. That is the definition of racism.

NO ZIONISM IS THE DEFINITION OF RACISM. ISRAEL IS A WHITE COLONIAL SETTLER STATE, LIKE THE US, S. AFRICA UNDER APARTHEID, AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND.

BY DEFINITION, THESE STATES EXIST ON STOLEN LAND, ARE COMPRISED OF FOREIGN COLONISTS, AND, BY DEFINITION, MUST EXCLUDE, REMOVE, DEGRADE AND ABUSE THOSE THEY DISPOSSESS.

USUALLY THIS PROCESS IS A PROCESS OF BOTH PHYSICAL AND CULTURAL GENOCIDE.

On top of that, I have a story to tell. That famous head scarf mentioned in this article was being flown as a flag by a Pakistani farmers market salesman the day India was bombed. I used to love his chutney and samosas. But on that day, when he had never flown one before, he chose to fly it as a symbol of terrorist success. There was nothing said between us, I understood it to be the truth because that scarf means solidarity with people who kill.

THE VERY FACT THAT YOU DIDN'T ASK HIM MEANS THAT YOU WERE ACTING ON THE BASIS OF RACISM. YOU MADE ASSUMPTIONS THAT WERE UNWARRANTED AND UNPROVABLE AND DECIDED TO PUNISH HIM BASED ON YOUR ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT HIS BEING A TERRORIST SYMPATHIZER BASED ON HIS RACE AND NATIONALITY.

A KAFFIYEH IS A HEADSCARF, IT IS A SYMBOL OF CULTRE AND CULTURAL SOLIDARITY. THAT'S WHY ARAFAT WORE IT.


That was the last samosa I'll have for a while, since he's the only vendor in the hood, but I stand by my right to protest terror.

IE, YOU STAND BY YOUR RACIST ASSUMPTION.

I believe in Ghandi, MLK, and others like them. Arafat is not one of them. And the Kufi, or Kafiya, as it is called in the multiple languages there are, is a direct symbol of Arafat, a man who robbed his people blind and killed as many innocent arabs as jews.

SEE ABOVE

Now as for the protest, at least they didn't vandalise sneakily at night, they were honest and open about Muslim complacency in fascist terror,

THIS IS ALSO A RACIST ASSUMPTION. THE ASSUMPTION THAT MUSLIMS ARE "COMPLACENT" ABOUT TERRORISM IS ABSURD.

see A Post 9-11 Identity Shift in the LA Times
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-muslims8sep08,1,5301613.story?track=rss
---------------------------------------------------------

However, I would rather stand on the side of those who joined hands to stop hatred. Those people have a better chance of making change. If we want responsability and accountability we have to unite instead of dividing and give Muslims a reason to feel safe and secure as well.

YOU ARE VERY CONFUSED. YOU ASSUME MUSLIMS NEED TO CHANGE. THAT IS A RACIST ASSUMPTION. YOU ASSUME ISRAELIS AND JES DON;T NEED TO CHANGE, YET AT THIS DEMO I SAW PEOPLE OF JEWISH DESCENT SPEWING SOME VERY VILE AND HATEFUL THINGS.

WHEN i WATCH 10,000 ISRAEL SUPPORTERS GATHER IN LA TO _____celebrate_____ THE BOMBING OF LEBANON, I SAY those PEOPLE NEED OT CHANGE - BASED ON THEIR DIRECT, OPEN AND UNEQUIVOCAL ACTIONS AND THEIR SPEECH.

I SAY, FOR THAT MATTER, _____you____ NEED TO CHANGE.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-muslims8sep08,1,5301613.story?track=rss
FIVE YEARS AFTER
A Post-9/11 Identity Shift
Muslim Americans reassess how they portray their faith in public.
By Louis Sahagun
Times Staff Writer

September 8, 2006

A Muslim homemaker from La Habra Heights, assuming authorities monitor her charity donations, has stopped giving to "any Muslim charity that touched my heart" and now contributes to less-suspected organizations.

In Sacramento, a young imam has broken with an ancient tradition among Muslim prayer leaders by shaving part of his beard to appear less threatening to non-Muslims.

Since Sept. 11, 2001, they say, increased scrutiny and suspicion have made them more cautious about expressing their faith. Other California Muslims have taken a different approach.

In Irvine, a 19-year-old hijab-wearing UC Irvine student and others in her school's Muslim Student Union staged a program in May critical of Israel called Holocaust in the Holy Land. She also helps organize rallies and fundraisers to support Muslims whom she believes have been unfairly targeted by federal investigators.

The experiences of the homemaker, the imam and the student reflect the transforming and sometimes contradictory effects of Sept. 11 on Muslims in the United States. In the five years since the terrorist attacks, some Muslims have tried to be less visible, others more bold, as they live and work beside their fellow Americans.

"We are witnessing the creation of a new Muslim American identity that is still a work in progress," said Zahid H. Bukhari, director of the American Muslim studies program at Georgetown University.

"In times past, it happened to African Americans, Latinos, Jews, Japanese and Catholics; now, it's Muslims' turn to become part of the fabric of American life," he said. "Before 9/11, many Muslims were physically here but mentally living back in their homelands. That is starting to change."

Many who study U.S. Muslims say that, without Sept. 11, it might have taken the diverse, reclusive and largely immigrant community another decade to enter the public square.

The acts of terrorism on American soil forced them into it, albeit under what some Muslims believe are the prying eyes of government, the media or neighbors.

They speak of shifting to unlisted telephone numbers or obtaining post office boxes so they don't have to reveal their home addresses. Some have stopped going to mosque prayer meetings.

Compounding problems is an almost predictable increase in tensions and intimidation — vandalism, break-ins, slurs — after every arrest of a suspected terrorist who is a Muslim.

"The terrorists are just everyday Muslims following their satanic cult," read a recent e-mail to the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Los Angeles.

"It's an amazingly exhausting job being Muslim in America these days because we're always on," said Napha Phyukal Quach, a member of the Al-Fatiha Islamic Center in Azusa.

For some Muslims, the best way to respond is to embrace American institutions. A Georgetown University study in 2003 found that 93% of those surveyed believed that it was important to join the American political process.

That was the conclusion of Zubeida Khan, whose family's commitment to Islam is so strong that even Muslim friends jokingly call them "The Mullahs."

The La Habra Heights homemaker had come to the United States from India in 1977, under the terms of a family-arranged marriage, to wed Iftikhar Khan.

Her husband went on to become a cardiologist. In 1998, the couple and their two sons moved into a spacious hilltop home 15 miles east of Los Angeles.

For years, "I was content being a housewife," said Khan, who does not cover her hair with a hijab, which is not mandated by the Koran, but always dresses modestly in long-sleeve blouses and long skirts or pants.

Then came 9/11.

"With people being arrested left and right and negative images of Muslims filling the news, I told my sons to keep a low profile," recalled Khan, 49. "But I also felt I had to step out of my home and into the real world to stand up for Muslims and tell people what Islam really stands for: peace, mercy, equality for all. Surrender to God."

Khan began inviting people who might help promote understanding — city officials, pastors and rabbis — to her home for face-to-face talks.

A few years earlier, the Khans had supported a successful effort to preserve a swath of nearby hills from development.

After 9/11, they helped campaign door to door for City Council candidates and served on La Habra Heights' budget advisory committee. She volunteered for the board of trustees at Beverly Hospital in Montebello.

She also joined the Muslim Public Affairs Council Foundation in 2003 and now serves as the treasurer of its board.

Stirring a traditional Indian curry dish in the kitchen of her home, which is adorned with framed ayahs, or verses, from the Koran, Khan recalled: "It was a stressful time. But I've come to be quite well known in La Habra."

"In becoming more assertive in the public arena, I've made a statement about who and what I am at a time when a few unreasonable radicals have hijacked public attention," she said. "We have to make it loud and clear to other Muslims and our communities that we stick to the principles of the Koran and the life of the prophet."

Marya Bangee, the student at UC Irvine, says she too is trying to embody the principles of Islam. But she is among those who take a more aggressive approach when engaging American society.

Civil rights have become a banner issue among many Muslim youths. Unlike their parents, many of whom came from countries where political activism could be dangerous, today's students know their rights, speak the language and know American culture. They have no qualms about using edgy imagery to make a point.

The Holocaust in the Holy Land program included a speech titled "Israel: the Fourth Reich" and a mock Israeli security wall.

Bangee, who was a high school sophomore in Riverside when she became a political activist, made no apologies for what she called "inflammatory" and "provocative titles and phrases that brought students into the discussion."

"Keep in mind that we are college students trying to inspire discussion and debate," she said, "and sometimes we say stupid things to get things moving."

What led Bangee, who was born in the United States, to political activism?

"It was the gradual buildup of negative stereotypes and misconceptions" after 9/11, she said. "I felt I had to do something to change that. I feel no kinship with Al Qaeda or Osama bin Laden, but I do feel an obligation to bring attention to what we believe are political realities that are not being heard.

"The Koran says we must stand up for justice, and doing just that consumes almost all my time," said Bangee, who is pursuing degrees in sociology and English.

"I'm optimistic," added Bangee, whose role models include the prophet Muhammad's virtuous and supportive first wife, Khadija, "because the overwhelming trend right now is away from fear and toward a sense of proudly reclaiming our lives and defining our roles before others define them for us."

Among Bangee's recent priorities has been campaigning on behalf of a Buena Park fundraiser jailed for two years because of his connection with a charity allegedly tied to terrorists. On July 27, a jubilant Abdel Jabbar Hamdan was ordered freed by a federal judge who rejected the government's contention that he was a national security threat.

The next day, Bangee helped stage a town hall meeting for Hamdan in Irvine. As more than 200 people filed into a sweltering auditorium, she said: "This event is a direct result of 9/11 and the subsequent government investigations of Muslim charities."

The investigations have resulted in the freezing of millions of dollars in bank assets and the closure of some Muslim charities.

"One of the mandates of Islam is that Muslims donate 2.5% of their assets to the poor and the needy," Bangee said. "But for us, it is more difficult than ever to get money to the people in places such as Palestine, one of the most pressing humanitarian disasters in the world.

"Our job now," she said, "is to put pressure on the government to make sure, inshallah" — God willing — "that justice prevails."

A surge of concern over how to divert Muslim youths from radical influences has created a post-9/11 demand for a rare and expensive commodity: English-speaking imams who understand American youth culture.

One such imam is Mohamed Abdul Azeez, the new prayer leader at the SALAM Islamic Center in Sacramento.

He's the kind of leader Mahdi Bray, executive director of the nonprofit Muslim American Society, had in mind when he observed: "We need imams who know that when our kids talk about Eminem, it's not chocolate candy, and 50 Cent isn't loose change and Usher is not going to take you to your seat."

Azeez, 30, was born in Egypt and attended a Catholic school, where he learned English. He memorized the Koran at a traditional Islamic school and later earned a medical degree at a university in Cairo.

He immigrated to the United States in 2000 with aspirations of establishing himself as a scholar and living near relatives who had arrived earlier. Azeez, who took charge of the mosque in 2004, is the one who shaved his beard.

The United States, he said, gives him the opportunity to continue studying Islam free of the cultural restraints of the Middle East. As Azeez put it, he could explore his faith "outside the box."

Shaving his beard was a break with a tradition calling on imams to take on the bearded prophet Muhammad's appearance. "I may be the only imam in America who doesn't wear a full beard," he said.

"But I don't want to scare people," said Azeez, who sports a mustache and goatee. "There are just too many negative ideas that go along with Muslims with full beards these days."

Azeez encourages congregants to vote and to support civil rights organizations, backs women on the mosque's board of trustees and welcomes non-Muslim participation in religious activities. Along with some other mosques after 9/11, his now flies an American flag.

Given that nearly everyone at his mosque has a relative or friend who has been visited by federal authorities, had a run-in with airport security or been called a profane name in public, Azeez also started a free lecture course called "Discover Islam."

Although Azeez insists that the theology at his mosque is "as orthodox as any mosque in Saudi," some congregants are dismayed by the changes, including his beard.

"Our biggest problem right now is internal squabbling," Azeez acknowledged. "I'm getting hate mail from members who say we're selling out. They don't want to adapt to what they consider a corrupt system."

At his mosque one day this summer, Azeez led prayers in Arabic and then addressed 150 worshipers in English, presenting them a challenge.

"Brothers and sisters," he began, almost scolding, "I still hear Muslim immigrants in the United States say, 'I am from Turkey, or Jordan, or Morocco.' They never call themselves Americans. They say they will go back one day. But they don't. They spend their entire lives in a nice house in the suburbs and taking advantage of a system without giving back.

"This is extremely dangerous, brothers and sisters," he said. "There is no shame in saying, 'I am a Muslim American and will help make this a better place for everyone.' "

Later, in his office, Azeez conceded, "People think I have answers for everything. I don't. Nor do I have a coherent picture of reality to share. I tend to give people hope."

Staring out the window, he added, "I have a few deferred dreams of my own, like learning to fly, or buying a rifle to go deer hunting with friends. But I can't do either of those things without worrying about being reported to authorities. Non-Muslims can do those things. We can't."

louis.sahagun@latimes.com

WAS THERE WRITES: "YET AT THIS DEMO I SAW PEOPLE OF JEWISH DESCENT SPEWING SOME VERY VILE AND HATEFUL THINGS. "

BECKY: You mean like calling a black man an "Uncle Tom?"

Are you saying that hateful things weren't said by both sides?

The clips I saw had people chanting "racist go home!"

That sounds pretty hateful to me. Especially when the speaker for that group clearly stated "We love Muslims!"
and sang America the Beautiful --which isnt even the National Anthem--but a song about Americas beauty and brotherhood.

At the ANSWER rally in SFon July 13th which I DID attend, the breakaway march shouted in Arabic --- "Palestine is ours, the Jews are our Dogs."

Someone on the ANSWER side grabbed an Israeli flag from someone on the counter-protest side of the street,
and torched it. Sounds like hate to me.

I didnt see any article's here the next day condemning them for their racism. That one woman called Arabs "pigs" on her sign. I think that is wrong.

But her anger is legitimate if her tone is intemperate. Nothing on her sign was in error. can you address the growing death toll of innocents slaughtered by Muslim extremist groups?

>You and I both say: "The UAC chose the mosque because, according to the 9-11 Commission Report, two of the alleged Twin Tower bombers had "spent time at the King Fahd mosque and made some acquaintances there" during a two-week visit in January, 2000--eighteen months before the attack. "

I bet those guys also spent time eating at In-N-Out Burger up the street. Yummy. UAC should protest there too. Maybe they can hang Ronald McDonald in effigy.

I have to agree with mymicz - though I don't really agree with his general position - UAC didn't sway anyone except the most hateful elements. In that, they just polarized them. I'm 100% sure they knew that would happen, and that was their intent. The best we can hope is that people within the Muslim community see this, and do nothing at all. After a hateful exchange like this, some people most upset by it, especially those isolated from moderating people, could be motivated to side with Osama Bin Laden.

This isn't a polarized online debate, but real people, and in Los Angeles. It's a pretty liberal, accepting place, and the people who experience it become pretty tolerant over time. This has to be encouraged especially among newcomers, who may not feel it's their right to demand tolerance, or their responsibility to offer it to others, because they insist on bringing their homeland animosities here. If there's any population of Muslims willing to support Coptic rights overseas, it's probably here in America. Why crap over that kind of opportunity?

Also, all the talk about "we love Muslims" is so bogus. They said it, but they didn't mean it. Everyone except the most dense, most literal, most fooled people knows this. I'm a little surprised anyone would even use that argument. It's childish and reminiscent of "debate" that third-graders might have.

can you address the growing death toll of innocents slaughtered by Muslim extremist groups?


How about the U.S. imperialism? The U.S. imperialism probably killed millions time than the muslim extermist groups.

I re-read the article, and no where in it does it say the violence was one-sided, or even that there was violence. What it does mention is the historical violence of lynching and that "Heated, near-violent, face-to-face confrontations erupted." No violence from the Copts/UAC/Stormtroopers, no violence from the Muslim/Christian/anti-fascism group. No violence. Period.

So maybe you're just insisting on one big ol' red herring here, and smelling up the thread. Or maybe you're trying to get someone to say there was violence on both sides, just so there's an admission of violence from here. I don't know how diabolical you are, so I can't say.

But in either case, you're busted.

. Go find another thread to blow smoke up.

NAZIS FOR TARGET PRACTICE WRITES: "Or maybe you're trying to get someone to say there was violence on both sides, just so there's an admission of violence from here. I don't know how diabolical you are, so I can't say.

But in either case, you're busted."

BECKY: I wasn't there. I only know what I read and can see in the posted clips and photos. However, I never claimed there was "violence" on both sides. I said their was HATE on both sides. MOST of the hate appeared on the side of the church people and counter-protesters who called the other side "Racists" repeatedly and called the lead organizer, a black man, an "Uncle Tom."

If anyone has been busted, it is YOU for trying to claim that I alleged violence occurred at the protest when I actually commented that the "police had nothing to do."

You have to ask yourself, why did the IMC members who posted here fail to show a single sign from the protesters while LOUDLY proclaiming they were all "racists" "a lynch mob?" They posted dozens of signs from the counter-protest.

Marcus only posted 2 signs AFTER I asked repeatedly to see SOME evidence of racist attitudes.

These are the types that make up the crux of the pro-war pro-israel support....

These people represent the majority of pro-israel, pro-war sentiment

You forgot two signs of hatred: hanging an effigy to shame people into doing as they're told. And pointing fingers and hypocritically calling people at the other end "terrorists."

This is going nowhere until you define hate. I hate what UAC/Minutemen/Coptics did. I hate what they stand for. I don't know them well enough to hate them personally, and I don't want to. There are plenty of good, moral, loving people I still want to get to know, to keep me busy. Is that enough hate for you, or do you want more?

So now you can say I'm a hater and a bad christian and whatever else you want about my hatred. But don't try to tell me Petrilla and crew came to the mosque to love their neighbor, and I won't say that I love what the UAC/Minutemen/Copts did to the mosque or who they have chosen to be. I hate all of that, deeply.

And I love the people who were calling out to stop the hate. Even us haters need some hope.

People said no violence happened. The right-winger side came over to shout at the mosque defenders, though. They kept doing it for a while, and one came to shout at my friend well after the demo was over. I wasn't interested in "communicating" with someone who was hollering. It's just stressful and disrespectful.

The animosity against ted hayes is deep rooted in LA (and with this site, actually*). He's supported the SOS, and helped assault one of his opponents. He's also reported Food Not Bombs to the cops. He's into getting the spotlight, and has morphed from a homeless activist into something else. (Dome Village is closing up.)

Tagging him an "uncle tom" is being nice - Uncle Tom was an slave who put up with his exploitation. Ted Hayes, in contrast, has made a great effort to be an enemy of the left and of liberals, and has used violence and enlisted police force to do it. (He might be overdoing it, because he used to be a leftist. I think he's out-right-winged Larry Elder.)

At the same time, he's not above saying he's a victim of police abuse. At a big demo, after he got shot by a rubber bullet, he took a big fall and got on the news and totally worked it. Many of others in the demo were also shot by these same bullets, but they kept running from the riot cops.

I guess he wasn't afraid of the riot cops, because he had cut deals with the police before.

The guy knows how to work the media. He's smart.

I'm sure this soap opera will continue.


* LA IMC's first meetings were at Hayes' Dome Village. The IMC eventually found another location after being told that he'd had conflicts with Food Not Bombs, and that Hayes had coordinated with the police to have residents cooperate with the police (not sure for what). People were concerned that the room was wired with microphones or something.

OK, Becky; I'm not sure why I'm willing to waste my breath here, but here goes: An analogy for you.

Would you understand this as hate if:

The scene were Nazi Germany, just after the Reichstag Fire:

For the sake of argument, let's say what happened is that Hitler began to round up Jews as terrorists and suspects in the burning of the Reichstag. Hate crimes against Jews skyrocket. Protests are held outside of synagogues protesting Jewish terrorism. Images of oh, say "Shylock" are burned - pick your image of a racist caricature of the Jewish people - the one most likely to stir up hatred and prejudice.

Although I've played with the actual history here a bit, the analogy is strict.

After 9-1-1, I visited a store in San Gabriel area that had been owned and operated by a Muslim man. He had been slain in a hate crime, and we came to pay tribute.

Every stigma and stereotype is a _story_ that "justifies" violence against its target.

Now, what else do you need to know?

What else would any clear minded person need to know?

What did you _think_ the Osama effigy was for?

Nazi Hunter is the next Roland Barthes.

Maybe Ted Hayes is too, but the anti-Barthes, or something.

You lost me on the Hitler/Reichstag/Jewish terrorists analogy. It really WAS Muslim terrorists who brought down those building.

Let me preface the rest of my comment with the acknowledgement that I wasn't there, and you were. In theory, you should know far better than I why the protesters staged the guerilla theatre the way they did.

NAZI HUNTER WROTE: "What did you _think_ the Osama effigy was for?"

BECKY: Given the date --Sept 10th--the day before the 5th aniversary of 9-11, and the statement on the sponsoring organization's PSA which says that the King Fahd Mosque had been linked to two of the 9-11 terrorists who had spent about 2 weeks there less than a year prior to Sept 11th, I suppose the protest was:

A. to protest the use of terror attacks against Americans
B. to shame the King Fahd Mosque for either:
1. aiding and abetting the Sept 11th attack or
2. failing to condemn the attack

Therefore, the Osama effigy was to condemn those who would use terror against Americans.

Didn't Hayes invite the members of the mosque to "come and join us?"

do u trust this man who hangs around with KKKarl Rove?