LAGUNA BEACH, 15 July 2006--The minutemen were mean. Just sheer, ugly, dog-biting mean. One of them had discovered the Laguna Beach Day Labor Center was on state land but, just days later, on July 11, the City of Laguna Beach leased the land from the state to keep the center open. The minutemen came to Laguna Beach to protest their defeat, at a day labor center that has been a hotspot over the past year between immigrant supporters and deportation mongers. But the City had already made up its mind. And the minutemen had lost before they even began.

Under the hot summer sun, the anti-migrant protestors set their tone when a minutewoman, recognized only as Penny, drove into a passing bicyclist, knocking him to the ground as she honked at her friends while turning into the parking lot. Her compatriots rushed to comfort the driver, while the cyclist lay in the street. The minutemen were in no mood to worry about other people. In a flashback to Hal Netkin’s violent vehicular attack in Garden Grove, the driver was apparently not cited by any of the dozen or so police present.

Traffic backed up more than three miles north along Laguna Canyon Road as the 40 protestors and 60 labor center supporters taunted each other. The migrants and their allies shouted “Nazis go home!” and “Racistas!” The minutemen shouted back, “Immigrants are murderers, rapists, and child molesters!” and “You silly little wet----!” Joe Turner, head of Save Our State announced, “I am Spartacus” and shook his fists over his head. Perhaps he was showing off for his new boss, Jim Gilchrist.

Gilchrist, head of the Minuteman Project, was joined for the first time by Turner. Until Saturday, the two men have avoided each other—Turner had been deemed too violent for Minuteman membership since early in 2005 when he posted the comment, "Bring your bats, fellas. If we are lucky, we are gonna need them. PING!" But Gilchrist recently acknowledged his long-simmering feud with Arizona-based Minuteman co-founder Chris Simcox and officially split his organization from Simcox’s Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. It seems that Turner is being auditioned for new cowboy sidekick, as Gilchrist’s Minuteman Project winds down to a statewide group: a leaner and meaner zenophobic machine.

While protestors and labor center supporters were vying for the support of passing motorists a block north, Gilchrist and Turner took turns roaming the parking lot to the southeast of the day labor center, trying to provoke migrant supporters returning to their cars. Turner called one woman a c--t. Gilchrist, with his press squad/thugs in tow, ordered the camera turned on another as he baited the lone woman to hit him. His face shriveled in anger and his fists waved in the air. She declined the offer.

Another day labor supporter, getting into her car, threw water on the woman who had first tried to close the center. Arms outstretched, the minutemen lurched through the car window. The police removed the labor supporter from her car, handcuffed her, and led her past the minutemen to a squad car. She was taken to the police station, cited for misdemeanor battery, and released.

It wasn’t long after 1:00 p.m., when most of the minutemen and the day labor supporters had left, that an SUV drove into the day labor center. A man, who identified himself only as a Laguna Beach resident, pulled out a roll of bills and handed out more than $600 in twenties to the laborers. He said he wanted to help make up for the lost day of work, and he apologized on behalf of city residents. The day laborers explained to a remaining supporter that the residents of Laguna Beach like and appreciate them, and often drop off food and clothing at the center. It seems that Laguna Beach City Hall got it right.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFz16kIJHYQ

At 1:11 into the video posted here, you can see footage right after the bicyclist got hit.

Seen in this photo I took is Penny being comforted as if she was the one who was hurt.

A male Minuteman/SOS participant drove her car into the parking spot, who could have waited until the bicyclist was up on his feet first as seen in the video clip.

Joe Turner and Jim Gilchrist interact.

Shown here is Penny crying. But after being comforted and given some time, she was back to demonstrating. I commented her on her driving and she said the bicyclist hit her. That's doubtful when it's her with the blindspot she should have compensated for with a turn of the head, seeing the bicyclist, and letting him pass completely first.

I heard the guy with the straw hat and thin right leg with the "Day Labor Site Closed" sign yell at Naui tell him to go back to his "pyramid." No doubt a reference to Aztec ancestry.

Jim Gilchrist asked me how many little boys and girls I molested that day, called me a commie, and called me Benedict Arnold.

Joe Turner heckled the counter protester who was later arrested in the water incident and made a crude reference to his phalus, claiming the number 8 as his size. He furthered the rude behavior to the female by saying that silenced her(hardly).

I posted footage somewhere of the loud "Brokebutt Border" guy making crotch humping gestures to motorists with his banner. I'll put all the footage of this behavior in one video file and post it on youtube.com soon.

But hey the day labor center lives on.

The day labor workers I spoke with spoke English and understood what I was saying. They were polite and civilized and wanted to work.

The pic

Jammer, where's your vid of Gilchrist shouting at you?

It's on a mini DV video tape. I haven't transfered it to my computer yet. I viewed the footage of that and Gilchrist's face is hidden behind his flag and it's hard to hear. But I can transfer the footage anyways and see how it turns out.

BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND!
SHAME ON LAGUNA BEACH Part 2
Saturday July 22nd
8 AM - 11 AM
Laguna Beach DLS
Laguna Canyon Rd. across from Ganhl Lumber


Theme this time is....
"WAKE UP LAGUNA BEACH"
Brought to you by the Gilchrist Angels

Here's the footage of Gilchrist yelling at me.

At 0:33 it sounds like someone yelled "Cliff the Commie!" and you can hear me laugh at that. At the moment when this happened, Gilchrist yelling that is how I remember it.

Then someone else says "You're a traitor Cliff!" (they have a habit of calling people "traitors" and "anti-American" for not seeing things their way)

At 0:43 almost to 0:44 is when Gilchrist yells at me asking how many boys and girls did I molest that day.

Then seen is a couple ladies on the MM/SOS side. There are voices heard yelling at them, but those weren't me. I don't use the word "Nazi" or "Nazis" when arguing, debating, or speaking with the Minutemen/SOS. I save those for when I talk about what I've seen in the Gilchrist campaign.

"Joe Turner...made a crude reference to his phalus, claiming the number 8 as his size."

Given the tendency of the MM/SOS to exaggerate just about everything they talk about (whether it's Gilchrist claiming 2000 illegal aliens would have killed the Minutemen in Hollywood or Turner's claim of 80 of their side in Laguna Saturday) I think it's safe to assume that the real number that should be attributed to his phalus is 4.

Here's more video of the "Brokebutt Border" guy making crotch thrusting gestures at motorists with his banner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJxW9twGcVw

or is he stimulating his little tee tee because he cant get any so he have to demostrate in the public. did any of the media get that?

The media that was on hand left by then. But they're more than welcome to any of the footage I have.

It's not likely that there's any question remaining about what motivates these SOS/MM/Aryan Nations and whatever else they're calling themselves these days. We knew from the start that there was little to distinguish what it was they stood for regardless of the names they give themselves, didn't we?

Unconscionable. Forcing little children to spew white supremacist hatred. Utterly unconscionable.

Is this what America has returned to?

JCC, you said someone called you a traitor? (I can't view videos since I'm on Windows 3.11 so I can't listen or watch the video segment you posted.)

I wonder if what went through the mind of whoever yelled that was the notion that you're a "race traitor," a term that's described as "treason to whiteness" (Google turns up some 109,000 for the term.) When you were stepping out with SOS/MM et al., did you ever hear anyone use the term "race traitor?"

Thanks.

The reason the Minutewoman wasn't cited for the accident is because she was following a police officers instructions to pull into the parking space. She didn't see the bicyclist and apparently neither did the officer who was guiding her. She was just following his direction.

Accidents happen. No one was hurt, just a little shaken up, but you can make a big deal out of it if you want.

I don't recall the use of the term "race traitor." There was tons of negativity towards Mexican culture and talking about spray painted walls and garbage on front lawns, trying to pass that off as Mexican culture. There was hatred towards the Islamic religion in general, the religion itself. Tim Beuller, that Freeper college republican guy, expressed hatred towards gays. He flat out said that he hates them. I got the sense that if you're in the campaign and you're Islamic or gay, you kept it a secret or things would be awkward.

Whenever I heard the word traitor, I got the sense it was meant as traitor to the USA. They seem to take the idea of being an American citizen to almost supremacist-like levels.

And there is the one time I spoke with a female participant we know as Jalira now. She was talking about when she once hired white guys as opposed to day labor workers or anyone here against immigration laws. She didn't say "legal" or "American" guys, but specifically said "white" guys.

When Tim Beuller said that he hates gays, he didn't say it publicly. It was in a car when we arrived back from a CCIR meeting.

There are hate group symptoms in the CCIR meetings like building a collective anger, using music shift moods, directly the anger at certain people(guess who), things like that.

Okay I know Joe Turner is gonna pick at me again for my typing errors, but I meant "I had this copied from a website." I meant the word "had," not "hate." Sorry bout that.

Anyone who spends all that money to make a "Brokebutt Border" sign, and then thrusts his pelvis at passing cars, has some issues that need to be worked out. These SOSers are too worried about their penises. They should leave the penis management to a discreet military professional, like me, Jeff Gannon.

Discounts and group rates are available to select patriots. I have great conservative references.

Yours, in solidarity,

Jeff

So Tell Me why do we we need immigrants legal or otherwise?

Many of our black and hispanic communities are suffering from an inability to make a living wage.

A recent example is New Orleans. Before Katrina, (and even now) many in this community where unemployed and on government subsistance. I doubt this is by choice. Many did not have cars and could not evacuate. Do you see something wrong with this?

I understand that many in our society do not posess the education needed to rise well above poverty. That being said, many of our poor are competeing for jobs in the service and industrial sector to survive. The same sector most immigrants compete for.....I know most of you see nothing wrong with this. I guess I have a different way of looking at things.

Below is from the:

" U.S. Census Bureau, Housing and Household Economic Statistics Division

Last Revised: August 30, 2005

In 2004, 37.0 million people were in poverty, up 1.1 million from 2003.

Poverty rates remained unchanged for Blacks (24.7 percent) and Hispanics (21.9 percent), rose for non-Hispanic Whites (8.6 percent in 2004, up from 8.2 percent in 2003) and decreased for Asians (9.8 percent in 2004, down from 11.8 percent in 2003).

From the most recent trough in 2000 both the number and rate have risen for four consecutive years, from 31.6 million and 11.3 percent in 2000, to 37.0 million and 12.7 percent in 2004

For children under 18 years old, both the 2004 poverty rate (17.8 percent) and the number in poverty (13.0 million) remained unchanged from 2003. The poverty rate for children under 18 remained higher than that of 18-to-64-year olds (11.3 percent) and that of people aged 65 and over (9.8 percent).

Both the poverty rate and number in poverty increased for people 18 to 64 years old (11.3 percent and 20.5 million in 2004, up from 10.8 percent and 19.4 million in 2003). "

I do not see how open borders and an influx of immigrants, legal or not, competeing for jobs will help our countries poor and less fortunate. Please explain to me how immigrants benefit our poor communities.

Also, if you would be so kind as to state if you are a business owner or non-business owner and what education level you achieved. Why? I am Curious.

Joe Turner has found a way to offer his penis size (in inches?) to an attractive young blond woman.

Some guy humped air for three hours while holding a sign referring to a famous movie about gay cowboys.

And in another example of "projection" Jim Gilchrist yelled at a member of the opposition and asked him how many kids he molested today.

Wow, these guys are great.

...they have a habit of calling people "traitors" and "anti-American" for not seeing things their way...

Since all the evidence they have used to oppose immigration (legal of illegal) gets blown out of the water as lies, they have to rely on Patriotism, that's an old ploy.

No one should take any offense to it, especially coming from a guy who hangs out with Nazis.

o-o-o-o-o-oh y-e-e-e-e-a-a-a-a-ah

"Since all the evidence they have used to oppose immigration (legal of illegal) gets blown out of the water as lies, they have to rely on Patriotism, that's an old ploy."

Here's another "old ploy"- make blanket statements, such as the one above, that are not only vague, but show no proof of the supposed evidence used in concocting said statement...

I don't think anyone was even talking to you, troll! Go post on SOS when they rebuild after today's hack.

Why are you so sensitive, troll? Have you nothing better to do than post on message boards and pick fights?

BTW, If no one is talking to anyone than why reply directly to me?

From: http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2006-06-25-1.html


"Because at the wages they're earning, even if they were citizens they wouldn't pay income taxes. We don't ask people making that little money to pay income tax in this country.

As for the other taxes, they pay them exactly as any other poor people in America pay taxes. At the store, they pay the same sales tax as the rest of us. When they buy gas, they pay gas taxes. When they pay rent to their landlords, some of that goes to paying the property taxes the landlord is required to pay -- just like every other renter.

Most of them are, in fact, paying exactly as much in taxes as they would pay if they were legal immigrants.

...

If we simply opened our southern border the way all our borders were open in the 1800s, then would there be any continuing burden?

Most of these immigrants would still work hard, only now they would have their families with them and the money would not drain away to Mexico. Those who prospered would pay income taxes. So economically, there would be an improvement. "

"So economically, there would be an improvement."

Unfortunately for that theory, a Nation is much more than an "economy", so while corporations would increase their profit margin, middle-class workers such as myself would be saddled with the lowered quality of life imported from south of the border.

is key to raising standards of living for all.

Blame the inflated corporate wage gap, not the workers themselves, for the gradual disappearance of the American middle class.

"Blame the inflated corporate wage gap, not the workers themselves, for the gradual disappearance of the American middle class."


I'm not sure you get my point- There are no CEO's living in the neighborhood where I grew up, but there sure are a lot of "undocumented workers", sometimes into the double-digits in what used to be a single-family home. There's also grafitti, junk cars, loud music, etc., along with the usual trash, urinating in public, and the "psst! psst!" whenever a woman walks by. The "inflated corporate wage gap" may or may not be the root cause of what I just described, but I have to deal with the "symptoms". I hope you got my point...

The guy who humped air didn't do it for three hours. When everyone was leaving, he and a couple others walked up the road, took a position, and he humped away. He must have humped air for like 15 minutes, still quite a while.

I was following a few posts. One was from a business owner. I found it most disturbing. He will layoff and hire immigrants to get a greater profit. Another was from a person who stated many facts and reports. What happended to the posts. I am new here and was keeping an eye on it. I was wondering why nobody responded to them. I am not up on the issues yet and felt my knowledge on the subject lacked information needed to respond to these guys. Am I missing something? Did you delete the posts?

Knowing this board, if the posts addressed the facts and those facts could not be disputed, it was deleted. (call it a moderator tantrum) This board is for propaganda purposes only . It is used to stir-up trouble through lies and other methods. Its for socialpaths who think they have some great purpose. in life..It is great entertainment though. You get a great insight of how a mind with a mental disorder works. Reality, truth, and facts are just not tolerated here. I doubt this post will survive the night. BTW... look at the childish tit for tat above. What information is gained by that? Google if you want to learn the truth.

No Such Thing. You have to have skills or an education to make a livable wage. McDonalds and Burger King isn't going to get you much. Service sector jobs will always pay minimum which will not be livible unless you have no bills to speak of or you live in a house with 20 others sharing the rent.

Of coarse if there is little to no competition for these unskilled jobs you can pretty much name your price.

Uh, are we supposed to take an seriously an account from someone that can not, or WILL not EVER just count how many people were there ???

Amazing, its all about propaganda and lies. It is sad that indymedia hacks like Les-LIE Radford continue to resort to the same old and worn out communist/leftist tactics.

Also, Penny was not arrested because nothing was done wrong. Its called an accident. Hello ? Or, do you think just because someone participated in the MMP means that they just want to run people over at protests? Well, the biker had nothing to do with any of it, so that makes Z E R O sense. Of course, to Radford it somehow does...in the big propaganda picture.

'flashbacks of Hal Netkin'. Oh, I almost fell on the floor on that one.

Anyway, more evidence that the OB/commie goons are frustrated because they instinctively sense they are losing , and big time.

I never said Penny ran into a bicyclist on purpose. It was an accident, so of course she wasn't arrested. Even if the police officer led her into the parking spot, part of doing so includes checking the blindspot. Obviously Penny failed at doing that and took down a bicyclist.

We did not finish our dissussion from the other thread. What do u mean El Che by this?

>>>Corps and globalists contiure their agenda's that the MM's and SOS fight against.

Are you a commie? I want to know.

I agree that the "inflated corporate wage gap" is an important factor in the decimation of the middle class in the US. But this growing wage gap is a direct result of corporate outsourcing (free trade) that allow CEOs to enjoy larger profit margins while depriving us of good jobs----they do this by brainwashing into believing that product prices will drop, which, when they do, happens only slightly.
Another effect of free trade, of course, is the increased need of poor and working-class Mexicans. Even the once-sizable middle class in Mexico is suffering and producing emigrants to the US. Farmers in Mexico can't afford to live and work on their land anymore because the country has been flooded with cheap agricultural imports from the US----and let's not forget that our products' cheapness is due to the heavy subsidies we give to US agribusiness (corporate welfare, ever heard of it?). What's more, that free trade would cause devastation to Mexican farmers is not a surprise---Clinton and the Bushes knew it all along. In fact, it was part of the plan: these farmers, like the Okies and the Arkies in the 1930s, would be forced to sell their lands for pennies and come here to provide their cheap labor.
When people ask, "Who is benefiting from NAFTA----Mexico or the US?", they're asking the wrong question. They should be asking "Which social classes are benefiting from free trade?" The answer is: The rich in both countries. And who is getting screwed over? It's the poor, the working class, and huge swaths of the middle class in both countries as well.
I also wish Mexicans stayed home----it would prevent many problems for both immigrants and us in the US, such as in education, cultural and language incompatibilities, distrust and resentment. But, unlike how KR simplistically resolves a few postings above when he says, "I'm dealing with the symptoms," it is not acceptable to remain so infantile as to direct our ire at other victims (the immigrants---really, the larger victims in this affair). Their arrival en mass to the US may present problems for us, but their remaining in Mexico is no less problematic---their already-horrendous levels of poverty would only be worse. And let's move away from the horrible (unChristian, if you will) pattern of thinking we frequently fall into: "Well, that would be THEIR problem, not ours." If they're human, their problems are just as urgent to God because they are just valuable in God's eyes as we are.
Let's combat the need for Mexicans to migrate by combatting free trade and wild, unregulated capitalism. Let's see the bigger picture and recognize the common interests we and the immigrants have. In other words, let's move away from racial, ethnic, and national thinking and let's think and act as members of the non-rich social classes inside the NAFTA economy----made up, of course, of poor, working class, and middle class people on both sides of the border.

Anticipating that Don would not like my numbers, whatever they were, this time I ignored my own count and used the numbers from the OC Register instead. Just wanted to see if Don would complain no matter what numbers I used. Now I know, and the answer is yes. Don, If you have a problem, talk to the Register. They had three reporters out at Laguna counting. Their contact info is on line.

Just went to www.saveourstate.org and got a page saying their account has been suspended. Is anyone else getting this? Oh, please, say it's so . . . .

I too got the same report on save our state site Leslie. the site havent been online sense yesterday morning.

Donnie didnt count the day laborer. SOS was misleading there numbers. so they use a lower numbers for pro immigrant side, but in reality the day laborer have joined our side not your side donnie. are u a shamed in your numbers donnie aka el che.

There were a lot of day labor workers at the center sitting at the tables in the shade.

The SOS site is back and accordint to a post, Laguna Beach has a city council meeting tonight.

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=14286

Short notice indeed. But can anyone make it? I may be there, but again, this is short notice. Starts at 6pm.

"The guy who humped air didn't do it for three hours. When everyone was leaving, he and a couple others walked up the road, took a position, and he humped away. He must have humped air for like 15 minutes, still quite a while."

Thanks for the clarification JCC.

Did he just mount air or did he take it out to dinner first? Fifteen minutes is remarkable though, especially for a group of guys known best for lasting only a minute.

I think he was the kind of guy to hump first, eat later.

i guess he is masterbating himself on public for 15 minutes.

According to Eileen's post on SOS this morning, Laguna Beach is having a city council meeting again tonight. If I go tonight and see the guy there, I'll ask him on camera why he was simulating intercourse to the traffic driving by.

was that in the SOP of the MMP/SOS.

If anyone is wondering what I'm talking about, I posted it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJxW9twGcVw

I can put a copy of this footage on a CD and present it to the city council to show what's going on when the MM/SOS are in town. There's also the footage of Gilchrist yelling at me.

"was that in the SOP of the MMP/SOS."

I guess it is now. They're okay with "Brokebutt Border" banners.

> Accidents happen. No one was hurt, just a little
> shaken up, but you can make a big deal out of
> it if you want.

Yeah, after all, nobody died this time. Sure, the white supremacist might have easily killed the bicycle rider but hey, accidents happen. No big deal.

Amazing.

Normal people consider wreckless driving to be a crime. Normal people consider knocking people off of their bicycles to be indicitive of a serious problem in a person's driving, one that needs to be rectified before the person kills someone.

But hey, racists want to proclaim it no big deal.

Speaks volumes about the SOSMM/Aryan Nations et al. mindset, doesn't it?

My opinions only and only my opinions.

Can you imagine if it was a day labor employer or supporting demonstrator who accidently hit a bicyclist or pedestrian? Then of course there would be posts and photos on SOS saying the driver was wreckless and should have his/her license revoked.

> Whenever I heard the word traitor, I got the sense
> it was meant as traitor to the USA. They seem to
> take the idea of being an American citizen to almost
> supremacist-like levels.

The research that went into the book "Copnservativsm without conscience" covers the phenomena. Some 23% of all U. S. citizens hold an authoritarian, totalitarian ideology that's diametricall opposed to everything the United States is supposed to stand for. Regardless, those people also harbor the notion that their unamerican ideals are exactly what America _should_ stand for.

The resulting unreason, it looks like, is what we're seeing.

By the way, one of the MM/SOS left a Coleman camping chair at the site of their protest at Laguna Beach last Saturday. You can see it here. Everyone had left and it was still there so I took it home with me. I'm not stealing this chair. I just took it because if I didn't, someone else may take it or throw it away. So if there's a way I can return it at the next protest or whatever event, that would be great. Maybe tonight if I decide to go to the Laguna Beach city council meeting. Or this Saturday at their part 2 protest at the day labor center. If this chair belongs to you, go ahead and post here or I guess contact Border Raven who can then email me. If no one claims it, I guess I'll donate it to the Laguna Beach day labor center or any worker there who wants it.

> Anyone who spends all that money to make
> a "Brokebutt Border" sign, and then thrusts his
> pelvis at passing cars, has some issues that
> need to be worked out.

Jeff Gannon! Hot Military Stud!

I shared that video file with people on the alt.impeach.bush newsgroup. Have to laugh but also wonder at the mindset that considers such sexual behavior in public to be acceptable.

> Uh, are we supposed to take an seriously an
> account from someone that can not, or WILL not
> EVER just count how many people were there ???

Penis envy rears its ugly little head, maybe? Got to get the size in inches length and circumphrence, maybe?

It's enough to know that white supremacists are vastly out numbered every time they show their white faces. That's quite enough, isn't it?

You can hear the guy yell things like "stand up for your country!" and "support the border patrol!" I'm sure the US Border Patrol are proud to have this guy supporting them.

> Fifteen minutes is remarkable though, especially
> for a group of guys known best for lasting only a
> minute.

LOL! "Minutemen." Their ideological buddy Rush Limbaugh acquired Vi&gra illegally under an assumed name and presumably that allowed him a little extra hang time. 15 minutes humping air -- is that a Republican record?

Don't group these clowns and yo yos with us. MMP and SOS are a bunch of cunts. They are white trash traitors.SOS and MMP are nothings. Indymedia are nothings.

Aryan Nation

> I'm sure the US Border Patrol are proud
> to have this guy supporting them.

Actually no. The real border patrol and other law enforcement agencies hate racist vigilanties parading around -- prancing around -- in the desert playing pretend with their surrogate penis firearms.

It would probably prove interesting and informative to conduct a study on the SOSMM/Aryan Nations / Stormfront et al. individuals on what vehicles they drive. Some predictions could be established prior to an examination and I'd expect that penis size -- small penis size -- factors into the findings.

S.O.S. Website Down

The Save Our State website has had its hosting account suspended, or so states the default page when you try to access their website.

“Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible,” reads the page. Which only makes one wonder what Joe, “bitch slap me”, Turner is doing with all the money his members contribute to maintain their board. Recently, after being hacked, Turner was forced to purchase the Invision Power updates which included essential security patches that prevent hacking. Turner then sent out an email complaining about increased bandwidth costs and the like while asking his members to foot the bill. Mr. Turner has sent out a couple of these emails requesting money from his members ( please see post: http://www.chicanoforums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6718 ).

The S.O.S. website is probably best known for its “dissenters paradise” forum, which is supposed to be for dissenting ideas but what really happens in that forum is that once a dissenter has posted (usually a person with common sense), the forum regulars eagerly rush in like vultures ready to display their wisdom; sadly, a bastion of intellectual capacity it is not. These poor people try so hard to rationalize their bigotry that it is comical. They try so hard to act intelligent it almost makes you feel sorry for them. But when you consider that most of them are “white” people who have had all the opportunity afforded to them from white America yet they choose to spend their online time plotting how to prevent a man from earning his daily bread that its really a pathetic sight, and (web) site. Most of them go by the “I am white and therefore everything I say is intelligent and right” rule. Which they should’ve realized isn’t true sometime around the 3rd grade.

No word yet on plans for Mr. Turner to ask his members for more money.

Looks like I won't be able to go to the Laguna Beach city council meeting tonight. But I may be able to be at the protest Eileen Garcia called for this Saturday.

"They try so hard to act intelligent it almost makes you feel sorry for them."

"But when you consider that most of them are “white” people who have had all the opportunity afforded to them from white America..."

While you are waisting your time and effort chasing the MMP and SOS the guest worker program passed by the Senate is dying on the vine. Your time would be better spent lobbying Congress not worrying about these groups. These groups are not going away so get used to it. They are a distraction. Have any of you wrote Congress? Congress holds the key not these groups. Who cares what these groups do or say. Who cares if they are racists or not. Who cares what there websites promote. While you are worrying about these groups we are losing the battle. If you want to lose this fight keep chasing these guys around. If you really care about this issue forget about these groups and concetrate on Congress. Why spend time and effort on these groups when your time and effort can be better spent on the end game. If your just trying to message your egos then go ahead and chase these groups around. Don't whine when Congress hands you your hats. Stop waisting your time and start doing something that is effective.

They don't lobby congress because they don't believe in America period. They want anarchy, communism, fascism. This is why they will always loose.

I suspect many people have written to their reps. (I have.)

When you write the letter, don't just make a point about immigration -- reference websites that have information about the racists within the SOS and MMP. Make it concrete. The fascists don't hold back about things like affiliation with "socialist" groups. Most politicians are savvy enough to know what's what, and what direction the country can go.

I'm not sure what writing to Congress will do. But I have spoken in person at a Laguna Beach city council meeting in favor of the day labor center.

1. Leslie, you know full well that the media hardly ever just count the crowd, and are so wrong so much of the time, its a joke. All I am saying is that since you are playing the indymedia journalist, the least you can do is simply count for yourself. Since most gigs are under 300 peeps total, its not difficult. To tell you the truth, I really do not care much what the numbers are, as long as they are correct. Someone that was there that day told me that someone counted and came up with 77 to 12 + day laborers. Funny, again I say that when we have 12 or 20 its called pathetic (it is actually) but when your side has those numbers, its a "formidable display of discipline" and such ! Your propaganda is showing ! Also, you are breaking a story here ! I have never heard about Gilchrist and Joe avoiding each other over the bat joke. In fact, I have been with them over and over in the same place while we all talked together...for over a year now. What you are 'reporting' must be your speculation based on musings you have about them in some way or another about something or other.

2. No, I am not a communist. I am not a Republican either. I believe that the globalists are just slaughtering us all, and that illegal immigration is just one tentacle of their monstrosity used against us.

3. No, I am not ashamed of our numbers. They have been much better since all the 'anchor baby gone wild' marches.

4. The web site has been under attack, but was not last night. So, any fond wish of 'say its so' can return to disneyland for another try with tinkerbell. You did not really think we could not pay the bill, or were canned for 'hate speech', did you ?

Bawhawhawhawhawhawhawhawhawhawhawhawhhawhaw !

I find it amazing that we are called ' dog biting mean ' when in the past couple of months alone, just off the top of my head I can think of no less than 6 distinct assaults upon us by the goons. This includes 2 attacks FROM BEHIND with abosulutely no provocation. I mean, we were just walking down the street taking footage, and did not say word one. Not a peep. I know, I know, we deserve it, or course ! I saw all the gloating over the video where that one PLP goon played wack a gopher on me. Oh yeah, he has been charged with assault with a deadly weapon, and we shall see what a jury things of that one.

So, just how many assaults have we been guilty of lately ? Hmm, lets see...oh yeah, Z E R O. Even turners case is about to be dismissed. The goon girl that threw water on the blonde haired lady last weekend spit on me and another female protestr in Laguna last year. All while we just stood there, not doing a thing but holding a flag. Turner was spat upon also at the same protest by some bald headed clown that likes bullhorns from answerla I think. So, that makes 9 right off the top of my head

Can not wait for the splainin away on that one Lucy ! I mean, Leslie !

For a bunch of "in-your-face" street activists or whatever you call yourselves you sure take a lot of unprovoked abuse. Maybe it's time you babies stood up for yourselves instead of screaming POLICE, POLICE, POLICE, ARREST HIM!!! Sound familiar. You put yourselves out there.

Actually there has been avoidance of Joe Turner and SOS before by Gilchrist and his campaign. They didn't want any Gilchrist signs at the SOS protest at Laguna Beach on September 24th, 2005. That was the day I went to Gilchrist headquarters for the first time and Debbie told me about Joe letting Nazis come to his rallies.

What a whiner Don Silva is. "El Che" my ass, Don - More like Little Eichmann - but that's another story.

Don's whining about "violence." Listen ass--- , why do you THINK we wear masks? Because we are the TARGETS of violence, official and unofficial.

Here's an example for you. After beating people bloody the pigs from Hollywood gave people on your side the names and addreses of some of the counter protestors, and you people have been threatening their lives.

Here's another. Hal Netkin: Netkin struck a half dozen people with his frickin CAR - talk about assault with a deadly WEAPON!

But did HE go to jail. NO. he's a white reactionary and racist.

Oh, but some little no one who hits the BIG BAD DON SILVA with a frickin flimsy PLACARD gets charged with "Assault with a """DEADLY""" weapon."

What a frickin PUNK you are Don Silva - it probably didn't even muss your f-ing HAIR! At least not from what I saw of it.

And Oh my GOD - somebody got some WATER on them!

Fat A** Dottie gets hit with a small half empty water bottle and suddenly she's got a BRAIN HEMMORAGE! What a pathetic JOKE!

But Jim Chase admits that so-called "rogue Minutemen" SHOT 2 migrants on the MEXICAN SIDE OF THE BORDER, and you, and the media, pretend it never happened! You were down there Don, you remember. I was there too. The same night the baby was born at the fence. I know damn well you remember.

Joe Turner's been busted - what is it now - 2 or 3 times for assault, going way back, but this prick is supposed to be some innocent victim!

Let me tell you something, asswipe Silva - something you already know.

JOE TURNER'S CHARGES WERE DROPPED IN A TRADE- he dropped other charges in turn against someone else in a fairly elaborate DEAL with the pigs across jurisdictions.

Look here d*** for brains - not one of us has waved a gun at anyone - unlke your idiot buddy Border Raven. That doesn't COUNT for violence in your book, eh?

You are a fool and a clown and a whiner, Silva - who wouldn't know what to do if the pigs weren't on your side.

Worse than a frickin goon - you're a GOOF.

Now get off our streets.

SPEAKING OF VIOLENCE;

Let's not forget the threats against innocent CHILDREN at Semillas del Pueblo;

Let's not forget the threats against the life of Mayor Vendido-raigosa.

Let's not forget the threats against the Baldwin Park City Council and mayor.

Let's not forget the threats against Profesora Judy Baca.

Let's not forget "Watchdog" brining guns to demonstrations.

Your f-ing little SOS forum is FULL of talk about guns. It's prime material for every Nazi Minutemen one of you on ALL your email lists.

You may THINK you can play the innocent non-violent role and pull the wool over someone's eyes. But you are a stone cold FOOL.

We know better.

You don't want to meet me on a dark street and try to talk that crap, Silva.

I know a killer Nazi when I see one. No matter how much he smiles as he kills.

Now, shut up.

I remember Jim Chase being quoted as saying an incident may have been caused by rogue Minutemen, but not that it was for sure. He also told a lot of us about "Little Dog." I know I keep mentioning him here, but I'm really surprised they let him still do borderwatch. Chase told us about him doing drugs while on border watch and talking about killing drug smugglers.

The Minuteman/SOS people like to use the case of Dottie getting hit by a water bottle, using it to portray their opponents as violent. Thing is, Dottie getting hit was an unfortunate chance hit. Video footage showed the bottle saililng in an arch path through the air. I doubt whoever threw it was aiming for her head thinking "I'm gonna aim for that lady's head... I hit it! Just like I wanted to!" It was a random throw and by mere chance it hit someone unfortunately.

I remember Jim Chase being quoted as saying an incident may have been caused by rogue Minutemen, but not that it was for sure. He also told a lot of us about "Little Dog." I know I keep mentioning him here, but I'm really surprised they let him still do borderwatch. Chase told us about him doing drugs while on border watch and talking about killing drug smugglers.

The Minuteman/SOS people like to use the case of Dottie getting hit by a water bottle, using it to portray their opponents as violent. Thing is, Dottie getting hit was an unfortunate chance hit. Video footage showed the bottle saililng in an arch path through the air. I doubt whoever threw it was aiming for her head thinking "I'm gonna aim for that lady's head... I hit it! Just like I wanted to!" It was a random throw and by mere chance it hit someone unfortunately.

a "random" throw that sends someone to the hospital with a head injury?

how about a random gun shot into a crowd by a rifleman who isn't aiming at anyone in particular?

Robert Floyd and Frank Jorge(ran to assited Robert Floyd assulted Naui with a knife. Also, when SOS invited the neonazi one of them had a possesion of drugs and a knife. Both of these events happened in Laguna Beach but different days when SOS/MMP were there.

The person who had a knife and drugs assulted someone.

"why do you THINK we wear masks?" .....The question is why would you wear masks? Most criminals wear masks when committing or about to commit a crime. Police will consider you a suspect upon your arrival at a protest if something occurs.

"After beating people bloody the pigs from Hollywood gave people on your side the names and address of some of the counter protestors".......That is public record......If someone is using this information to make threats you need to report it.

"Hal Netkin: Netkin struck a half dozen people with his frickin CAR - talk about assault with a deadly WEAPON!" ......Self defense .The videos clearly showed that. If one feels his or hers life is in danger a citizen may use deadly force. Common sense dictates that you do not surround a moving vehicle yelling, hitting and kicking it and acting aggressive. Further he acted within reason under the situation. If he would have returned with his vehicle once the threat had been mitigated and started running people down then he would have been charged with murder or attempted murder.

but some little no one who hits the BIG BAD DON SILVA with a frickin flimsy PLACARD gets charged with "Assault with a """DEADLY""" weapon." .....regardless of the instrument in the battery it is the intent that determines the charges.The video and the circumstances show this intent.

"somebody got some WATER on them!."... again it goes to intent. Further the fluid would need to be tested for other substances.

"Dottie gets hit with a small half empty water bottle and suddenly she's got a BRAIN HEMMORAGE! "....You condone this? It shows the intent of your group. Your group will always be watched more carefully and will be dealt with in a more aggressive manner. Your group[s] track record compels this action. Police have intelligence and are briefed prior to any protests.


"rogue Minutemen" SHOT 2 migrants on the MEXICAN SIDE OF THE BORDER"-......What was the outcome of the investigation . Were there arrests made?

"Joe Turner's been busted - what is it now - 2 or 3 times for assault, going way back, but this prick is supposed to be some innocent victim!" .... If charges have been dropped the investigation must not have provided enough evidence to prosecute. He said / she said and even witness statements may not be enough to prosecute in situations where both groups are advisories and tell a different story from different perspectives. Video evidence can play a role if sound and timeline prior, and up to, the actual assault is recorded.

"JOE TURNER'S CHARGES WERE DROPPED IN A TRADE- he dropped other charges in turn against someone else in a fairly elaborate DEAL with the pigs across jurisdictions". ...please explain. Plea bargains are different then this type negotiation.

Nazi Hunter your handle and your aggressive vocabulary during this post would raise flags. I am really not trying to single you out. I am just trying to provide a little insight. There is a fine line between peaceful protests and civil unrest. True, you are free to speak your mind but as I stated before, Police have intelligence. They use that intelligence to determine what coarse of action they will be prepared to use during a protest your group[s] are engaged in. Victim status is a matter of perspective. Police see things differently than you. Keep in mind aggression breeds aggression. The police do not want to become victims and will act with aggression when confronted. Like it or not you will always be the so called victim of police aggression based on your historical behavior. Interfering with the police during protests such as the Farm has branded some group[s] You may not like it but it is reality. Don't think you are being singled out. I use group[s] across the board meaning all group[s] opposition included.

Keep in mind that police don't just storm a house with a barricaded suspect in it. They look at the floor plan first. The same is said when dealing with the number of groups that engage in protests. There is no expectation of privacy in forums such as this. These forums are ripe for intelligence gathering.

SOS criminals wearing mask. They are just playing soilders to relive there haydays of wars.

PWNED

btw, is anyone gonna claim the camping chair somone left at Laguna Beach last Saturday?

you can give it to the day laborer center jammer.

Ya, I guess I can do that with the chair. Saturday may be a long day so maybe I'll use it to sit on during the protests in front of the Minutemen/SOS first. Hey Naui, you want this chair?

Eventually, we are going to have an activist presence that will intimidate and strike fear into our opponents' hearts. Not only because we will have the troop strength to evoke fear, but because of the manner in which we are active. We take our battles to the streets...something no other organization in the movement has ever done with any consistency or persistence.

Turner -2005

The manner in which they're active. Like thrusting the pelvis at motorists at a canyon road. With persistence.

> These groups are not going away so get used to it.

You're absolutely right about that. Only their names change. These days the white supremacist scumbags are calling themselves "Minutemen" and "Save Our State." Yesterday they were Aryan Nations, Klu Klux Klan, Aryan Resistance et al.

No. They never go away. Racist hatred with a fascist bent will be with us always, only the names change.

I hope that the truth upsets you.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

> Eventually, we are going to have an activist
> presence that will intimidate and strike fear
> into our opponents' hearts.

-- Adolf Hitler, 1934

I wouldn't worry about the Minutemen going as far as becoming as dangerous as the Nazi party from World War 2. I mean, look at this guy, your heroic Minuteman. It's a screen capture from some independent Minuteman video that Lucca Zanna produced. Pretty intimidating, huh.

Re: SOS/ Minutemen Violence
by Insight Wednesday, Jul. 19, 2006 at 8:21 AM

"why do you THINK we wear masks?" .....The question is why would you wear masks? Most criminals wear masks when committing or about to commit a crime. Police will consider you a suspect upon your arrival at a protest if something occurs.

---------------

No, fool - they target us regardless, and have done so forever. It is nothing new. Ask the survivors of COINTELPRO.
__________

"After beating people bloody the pigs from Hollywood gave people on your side the names and address of some of the counter protestors".......That is public record......If someone is using this information to make threats you need to report it.

_________

That's rich. The pigs give your name to Nazis and you're supposed to reprot it to the pigs.

_________

"Hal Netkin: Netkin struck a half dozen people with his frickin CAR - talk about assault with a deadly WEAPON!" ......Self defense .The videos clearly showed that. If one feels his or hers life is in danger a citizen may use deadly force. Common sense dictates that you do not surround a moving vehicle yelling, hitting and kicking it and acting aggressive. Further he acted within reason under the situation. If he would have returned with his vehicle once the threat had been mitigated and started running people down then he would have been charged with murder or attempted murder.

______

Unmitigated Bullshit. I was there. I am acquainted with a number of the people Netkin deliberately ran down.

______

but some little no one who hits the BIG BAD DON SILVA with a frickin flimsy PLACARD gets charged with "Assault with a """DEADLY""" weapon." .....regardless of the instrument in the battery it is the intent that determines the charges.The video and the circumstances show this intent.
_____

Intent. What INTENT does making death threats against the school children of Semillas del Pueblo show? You're damn selective in what you choose to respond to, and that's mighty convenient for you, isn't it?

_______

"somebody got some WATER on them!."... again it goes to intent. Further the fluid would need to be tested for other substances.

________

Too bad there's not a test for brain rot.

________

"Dottie gets hit with a small half empty water bottle and suddenly she's got a BRAIN HEMMORAGE! "....You condone this? It shows the intent of your group. Your group will always be watched more carefully and will be dealt with in a more aggressive manner. Your group[s] track record compels this action. Police have intelligence and are briefed prior to any protests.
________

Our "track record" doesn't even COMPARE to yours, dimwit. That was the point of my two posts. You are so steeped in oblivion you can't see straight.
________


"rogue Minutemen" SHOT 2 migrants on the MEXICAN SIDE OF THE BORDER"-......What was the outcome of the investigation . Were there arrests made?
________

The point is that Jim Chase admitted that they were rougue Minutemen in no uncertain terms. That's all we need to know. There is no nuetral or fair state to carry out a valid investigation.
________

"Joe Turner's been busted - what is it now - 2 or 3 times for assault, going way back, but this prick is supposed to be some innocent victim!" .... If charges have been dropped the investigation must not have provided enough evidence to prosecute. He said / she said and even witness statements may not be enough to prosecute in situations where both groups are advisories and tell a different story from different perspectives. Video evidence can play a role if sound and timeline prior, and up to, the actual assault is recorded.
_______

Get a LIFE, man. There are video cameras all over these demos - dozens sometimes.

________


"JOE TURNER'S CHARGES WERE DROPPED IN A TRADE- he dropped other charges in turn against someone else in a fairly elaborate DEAL with the pigs across jurisdictions". ...please explain. Plea bargains are different then this type negotiation.

_________

No, I will not explain. Ask Turner.
________

Nazi Hunter your handle and your aggressive vocabulary during this post would raise flags.

________

Go F%% yourself, whining Nazi.
________

I am really not trying to single you out. I am just trying to provide a little insight. There is a fine line between peaceful protests and civil unrest. True, you are free to speak your mind but as I stated before, Police have intelligence. They use that intelligence to determine what coarse of action they will be prepared to use during a protest your group[s] are engaged in. Victim status is a matter of perspective. Police see things differently than you. Keep in mind aggression breeds aggression.
______

NO, YOU MINUTEMEN NEED TO KEEP IN MIND THAT AGGRESSION BREEDS AGGRESSION. Your threats against the children of Semillas del Pueblo are a case in point. You ran like scared puppies with your tails between your legs when you saw the people's response up close and personal in El Sereno.

We need more militant, tightly organized and disciplined mobilizations of that kind. Be careful not to overstep, Minutemen clowns.
_________

The police do not want to become victims and will act with aggression when confronted. Like it or not you will always be the so called victim of police aggression based on your historical behavior.
_________

No, based on the class, gender and race interests of the pigs and what they represent. They target the most peaceful groups imaginable, like the Quakers. It makes no differene at all.
__________

Interfering with the police during protests such as the Farm has branded some group[s] You may not like it but it is reality. Don't think you are being singled out. I use group[s] across the board meaning all group[s] opposition included.
_________

I'm shakin' in my boots, man. Again, you think we don't already KNOW what the pigs do?
__________

Keep in mind that police don't just storm a house with a barricaded suspect in it. They look at the floor plan first. The same is said when dealing with the number of groups that engage in protests. There is no expectation of privacy in forums such as this. These forums are ripe for intelligence gathering.
_____________

Don't threaten me Nazi punk.

Like I said, I know a killer Nazi when I see one, no matter how much they smile as they kill.

Wipe that stupid grin off your face.

No one is going to believe that you are either "nice" or "reasonable."

I saw the video of that guy hitting Don I think it was with that protest sign. Big deal. Friggin Advocate from Stormfront jabs at me with his flag pole and hits my hand but I didn't care enough to call the police. The SOS just use police arrests simply as another attack against their opponents, just like last Saturday when someone was splashed with a bit of water. Heck I'd welcome that since it was a hot sunny day.

Man, you are comedy! I love how you get all worked up when you recount your "struggles"! Hahahaha! Face it- even if you were to wipe Fascism from the collective memory of people and history, a guy like you would always find somebody else to hang the label on, right? Maybe old ladies in wheelchairs, or sanitation workers.After all, that's your sole purpose for getting up in the afternoon. You'd be lost without "Nazis" (not implying that you're not completely "lost" now, of course...)
You know what's funny? My great-grandfather, who was a little old peasant from Catalonia, was a hardcore Anarchist. No, not some mask-wearing, woman-beating, junior-college "anarchist", but a f*ck-the-church, kill cops, blow up buildings ANARCHIST, know what I mean? All you clowns combined couldn't wipe the dust off of one of his well-worn shoes...

Woman-beating?? I think you got them mixed up with the LAPD.

Oooooh, dissss!!1!

The John Kobylt pic was just a joke btw. Just looks oddly cheesy.

you look like you could pass for either male or female depending on how you fixed your hair, wore your make up and selected your clothing. .

Just what is your gender, anyway?

if the MMP/SOS have an event at the beach, will you wear your bikini?

Depends. What's your fantasy and how much cash you got?

"You know what's funny? My great-grandfather, who was a little old peasant from Catalonia, was a hardcore Anarchist. No, not some mask-wearing, woman-beating, junior-college "anarchist", but a f*ck-the-church, kill cops, blow up buildings ANARCHIST, know what I mean? All you clowns combined couldn't wipe the dust off of one of his well-worn shoes..."

What does this unverifiable anecdote have to do with anything? And where does you "woman-beating" reference come from?

Sure there were anarchists in Spain, and if they were here today they damn sure wouldn't be on the side of the Minutemen.

And based on the things you say on this board your great-grandfather would probably kick you in the teeth with one of his "well-worn shoes".

Look at this NAZI video. Those racist pigs.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5871651411393887069

"What does this unverifiable anecdote have to do with anything?"

Didn't you understand my post? I was mocking all the little pretend "anarchists", especially guys like "Nazi Hunter" that get all worked up as if they've been "oppressed" all of their lives!

"You don't want to meet me on a dark street and try to talk that crap, Silva. "

Hey listen, it was not me screaming for the police. I wish they were not even there that day.

Anyway, where have you been all these months when we have done dozens of protests that you could have easily met me at ??? You are all talk. Its always been that way. When it comes down to it, you NEVER meet us. Last year, we even told all of you that we would be at Laguna at 7:30, an hour and a half before the cops were supposed to get there so you would have a chance to try and work your violent evil. I was there at 7, and guess what? Crickets, man...nothing. You all are the ones talking the trash, and you NEVER back it up. We on the other hand do no one any harm, but are continually the targets of your evil.

Tell you what, big keyboard warrior...the next gig, why don't you just show up? There will be no cops enforcing a line. If you want to start something, then by all means. You know my name. You know what I look like. I, on the other hand, do not know your name, and more than likely would not know you if you were there. This is because we are the ones setting up the debate. We are the ones that the media call for interviews. They do not know you, and never will ! Bawhawhawhawhaw !

So, actually the next 2 gigs will be with no police line, so feel free ! But, I know, just like every other time we have gone out of our way to accommodate you, you will stay home in your ghetto !

Violent, lying, trash talking goons, that is what you are. Your actions ( or lack of them ) continue to prove it.

Laffing ? We just rammed the issue down the Feds throats, and have fully enraged the sheeple of the USA. They know a real threat when they see one, and that is why the spin has been getting so thick lately. Bush popping up with the insult of 6000 gaurd troops so that the sheeple with think he is doing something proves this. Now, its known as 'Bush's Border Security Plan'. What a crock. He is just an OBL/NWO freak trying to fool the sheeple again into thinking that he is a 'good man'. He is ust the Feudal Lord thowing the peasants a crumb in hopes that they go away for a while.

The answer is not in numbers right now. That will have to come later. We proved this since we have thousands doing activism, and yet they are scurrying around tyring to do this or that to cover their rears.

It seems to me that they are just about ignoring the million or so that got in the streets all over the country because they know that they represent the very bottom of society...the peasants that can not do much against them, and have little voice. We, on the other hand, represent what is left of a voice in this country....for now anyway.

El Che
by Roger Wednesday, Jul. 19, 2006 at 9:16 AM

why dont u fight with the "globalist" than fighting with the working people? Don your organization are being too sectarianism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarianism
the "Globalist" is just laughing at your organization right now because your ogranization just pick and choose people rather than working with all working people. if you want to give a threat to the "globalist" join the people who brought out million people on the streets or just stay at you sectarian organization who brought out only 200 max on the street. Who could fight the "globalist" one million or a hundred people? if the "globalist" can stop your organization right now they would immideatly.

Dear Little Eichmann / Don SIlva

1. You don't know if I'm out there at your demos or not, do you? That's exactly how I want it.

2. You completely fail to refute a single instance of the many acts of Minutemen violence I outlined, and completely fail to even address the fact that these acts of violence and threats of violence FAR exceed anything done on our side, or that have even been said or intimated by our side.

The best you can do is say I am "full of lies and propaganda." WEAK, Don. VERY VERY WEAK. You blankly assert that "We on the other hand do no one any harm, but are continually the targets of your evil."

Pitiful.

In other words, since you are too cowardly to stay on topic - because the TRUTH OF THE MATTER EXPOSES YOUR butt - you in effect admit your people's level of criminality and the depth of their violent tendencies.

You should then, just SHUT UP about the matter.

If you had an ounce of dignity, you _would_ just shut up about it.

Besides, Don, a demonstration setting isn't a dark alley.

The temptation just isn't the same.

Unlike your people I don't make bomb threats against children.

I don't call peoples homes in threatening whispers in the dead of night, not to the mayor, not to the Lt. Gov, not to you, not to anyone.

I don't wave guns or brag about them or even own one.

I don't shoot innocent people in the dead of night across international borders.

I don't run down my opponents with a car. I don't call the police to defend me, or my mommy either one.

In other words, Don, unlike your compatriots, I am not a sniveling coward and a pervert who gets off on making empty threats.

Look punk, I hate to say it, but, you know, persona means "mask" in the original Greek. There is not a person alive whose persona can't be seen through - it's just a mask.

Your mask is to pose as the "civilized," ever - so - balanced - leader among a group of wheezing, violent thugs.

But really, Hannibal, how was your last meal?

Don, I asked you what do u mean by "globalist" you havent answered it yet.

Oh hey Don, while you're here, I know you weren't at Laguna last Saturday. But can you ask on the SOS forums if anyone lost a camping chair? I'm trying to find out who this chair I brought home belongs to. Otherwise I'll give it to a day labor worker who could use it.

Oh and Don, while you're at it, check this out

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=14248&pid=130266&st=0&#entry130266

Czernel made a mispelling on a protest sign. I did that and Joe Turner called me a dumbass. Can you see if Joe will be so nice as to do the same for Czernel? I mean afterall, he did the same thing I did. Oh, he won't? I didn't think so. Okay then, if Czernel is not a dumbass(I don't think he is a dumbass), then can you get Joe Turner to apologize to me for calling me a dumbass? I just thought this situation may help illustrate the kind of behavior the SOS leadership has. thanks.

u use that word el che i want to know what do u mean by globalist? it is simple as that.

can u explain frank jorge and robert floyd who assulted naui with a knife and also, when u were at laguna beach last year one of your guys assulted a pro immigrant person with a knife too and he had a possesion of drugs too.

Dear Little Eichmann / Don SIlva / the vicious white racist thug who dares call himself El Che....

Please, Donnie, do tell.

If you've answered to all these crimes before and have a reasonable defense, post it. If you've answered them before it will be easy. I know you. You probably have a file. Put it out there. Stop cowering behind the bravado. It makes you look too much like Little "Spartacus" Joey Turner.

You're on thin ice, thug. Accusing us of violence then saying you don't have to answer our accusations.

Here, I'll make it easy for you.

The people on our side who've done stupid shit like throw rocks plastic water bottles are undisciplined. They should know better.

Can you say the same about the knife wielders, threat makers and attempted murderers on your side?

Tell you what, if you can, we'll call it a draw.

But, of course, you can't.

You're too "reasonable" and "civilized."

So just do this. Apologize for Border Raven's threat against the children of Semillas del Pueblo.

THAT shouldn't be too hard, right?

Damn, you're one transparent Little Eichmann.

IF Hal NetKKKin felt threatened - which is a lie in the first place - he could have put the car in REVERSE, instead of deliberatley hitting a bunch of people with it.

Apparently LBPD doesn't want to come over here, but I thought I'd do this Det the courtesy of reposting his request, in case anyone here has any video he might find informative . . . for him or for the arrestee. And I wouldn't be limited by his parameters--video of what happened after the arrest, for instance, might be very telling for one side or the other.

Of course, if you have video that might help the arrestee, you might want to hand it straight over to her.

from the SOS board:

I am the LBPD Detective following up on the arrest on 7/15/06. If there is any video of the arrest I would very much like to receive a copy. Video of what occurred after the arrest is not important (but audio might be)---I am interested in any and all video of the incident itself and approximately 60 seconds leading up to it. Highest resolution video transferred to DVD or CD is best, or a VHS copy. I do not need any other video.

This post and my signing up for a membership should in no way be construed as endorsement of any political agenda and was merely done in an effort to obtain video of the incident.

If you get my voicemail please be sure to leave a name and call back number.

Det. Bixby
LBPD
949-497-0758 (Direct Line) or
949-497-0701 x758

Well, I don't have much but let's see what i got...

That's all the footage I have from that arrest incident. When I started filming, it was too late to get the actual incident that caused the arrest. Anyways, this is really superficial. Did the person who got hit with the water press charges or would the person have been arrested anyways? If somone poured a bucket of water on me, I wouldn't care enough to bother pressing charges. Unless it ruined my camcorder or something.

jammer you should show that one video to the city council where the sos/mmp member self masterbate in public and say that it is inappropate to see that in public.

Self-abuse is something that, if it must be done, should be done in the darkest corners of one's home, with the lights off and no visual stimulants available.

Afterwards, it should never be spoken of.

Actually I did think of doing that, providing the city council with video of the humping Minuteman. Because he had a banner that read "Brokebutt Border" which I'm sure would offend certain peolpe in Laguna Beach. And he was making the humping movements to traffic driving by. He was facing the cars going in towards Laguna Beach. I'm sure some of the people who saw him doing that were residents and children. I'm not sure what the council could do. It wouldn't be considered lewd conduct since he didn't take his pants off an expose his genitals. But hey there's the part 2 protest this Saturday and we'll see what he does this time...

Looks like the leadership around here does not want me posting. I gave a long post this moring, and another answer to Roger only to have it deleted for whatever reason.

Anyway, if for some strange reason you guys want to continue the discussion, feel free to email me at :

oldpreachin3@yahoo.com

I guess if I make another fake screen name, it will only be a matter of moments before my fans out me, so if you have anything else to tell me or Joe, feel free to use the above goon hotline. You can copy and paste things from this thread that after the last post from me that actually made it into an email and send them there.

The board moderates itself, it's not the "leadership" at LA-IMC. Posts shouldn't be hidden for political reasons. Only report posts that are really offensive.

and u whinning like a pig to the police? what if the feds asked the police to put a stop at your organization. the feds can do that too.

and one more time can u answer what "globalist" is?

It's like calling a Klan member "Brother Minister Malcolm."

In other words, Don Silva tucks his tail and runs.

He wants off the public hot seat around Minutemen / SOS violence.

He wants to take the discussion private.

Transparent Clown.

Just like when Jim Gilchrist admitted that he remembers the Stormfront guy who was in his campaign from a Laguna Beach protest rally last year, I think the first one. Of course he admitted it on the phone with me privately, but won't do it elsewhere.

Did I spell that right ?

Look, I came here. Didn't have to, did I ? I would do it here, but someone reported about half a dozen of my posts, and they were hidden. That is why I changed the name to El Che. Now, its happening to these posts also. I am not going to sit here and slam out a post, then have it deleted. You are welcome to repost whatever we talk about Here. No problem. I just do not have the time to sit here and work on it, then have it hidden for whatever reason.

Who is whining to the cops ? Whatever thats about.

Chair - can't say I have the time to work on it. I could drop an email to Robin about it. She usually knows what belongs to whom. Send that weird picture of you holding the chair to the email I listed above.

Spelling - Yeah, I have spelled things on signs wrong also. That is one thing, but to hold the sign for 3 hours is another.

I'm not sure how your posts are being hidden. At least one of mine here is hidden too. But I'm not reporting any of your posts. It wasn't me.

Or whatever you call it. None of us would even be allowed to post in the main threads on your site - much less have only afew of our posts "hidden."

Stop whining, or let us post openly on the SOS Forums.

Right. Just as I thought.

Consider this:

Corporate media promotes them and gives favorable press. They have total access to press clubs and most media outlets
The mayor rode in a parade with them.
The governor praised them on talk radio.
The president responded to them and sent troops to the border.
Law enforcement always sides with them and attacks counter demonstrators.
They are given a free pass to roam the border with weapons, trucks, high tech night vision scopes, two radios, etc. And they have the spare time to do all this?
Many of their most active members are ex-military, law enforcement or retired from some government agency.
They seem to have plenty of money, from where?
If some one were able to follow the money I bet it would lead to Negroponte.
He has lot’s of experience in setting up these kinds of groups.

Ever notice that the OC Register, SGV Trib, and LA Times are more sympathetic to the MMP and SOS than they are to the counterdemonstrators? When bad things happen, and the MMP or SOS cause it, it's minimized, but when some counterdemonstrator gets arrested, they imply guilt (even when the party is later found innocent!) When the MMP or SOS blatanly and knowingly lie, it's called "an opinion," but when the opposition states a fact, it's called "an opinion." The papers can't do their own research?

do u know that in Glendale when Jo Turner got arrested the mainstream press didnt mention his name and at Laguna Beach when a person got arrested they mentioned there name. Why is that?

When Joe Turner was arrested, he was named by the local papers, Including the Register, and by KCAL news. I don't know if every newspaper named him, but some did.

As a side note, Charges against Joe Turner have been dropped. Have you seen a single newspaper or TV station report on this?

I have not seen one story. can u give a site of a story?

I remember a story about the Glendale event when Turner was arrested.

The story quoted Joe Turner in the first paragraph even though the media and reporters weren't even there when Turner was there. Turner was arrested about 10 minutes after his arrival and wasn't interviewed by anybody while he was there. (Isn't that right Joe?)

And in the last paragraph the story mentioned that one person was arrested. He was not mentioned by name as the arrestee.

Roger, do you have the link to any of the stories where his name was given as the arrestee?

Gimme back my chair! It's really hard supporting the MMP and SOS in the hot sun! I need my chair back-- I get tired standing with Glichist and Turner all day long!!!

Charges are dropped against activists all the time, and they largely go unreported (unless the charge was severe and carried a long sentence, like Kurt Isobe's trumped up charges). Only activist websites and small papers ever report that stuff.

The charges against Turner weren't "dropped."

He worked a deal where he got off if he would drop his charge against someone else.

It's Not like there was no basis for the charge, or like he wsa "innocent," prompting the pigs to let him go.

It was more like "blood in, blood out" but with a twist.

really can be a dangerous thing.

Turner's case was dropped and then the DA realized Turner had a case for civil rights violations against the city. The DA flip flopped, rescinded its initial agreement and demanded that Turner agree not to sue the city for Civil Rights violations as a condition of the DA's agreement to drop the charges.

This is also about fame.

I have here the Sunday July 23 2006 edition of Arts & Entertainment(that should say it all), a supplement newspaper with the Orange County Register.

Article titled "The Minutemen meet reality TV"

Frank Jorge is apparently living as a day labor worker with an undocumented immigrant family for "30 Days," which should appear as an hour-long episode on FX.

Frank Jorge is on KFI right now.

I think it's great that Frank Jorge got burned by Fox TV!! He probably thought he could trust them because they're "good guys".

If I were to do something like that, I'd go with an independent documentary film maker. One that isn't answering to a major television network.

Or just put myself in front of my own camcorder and do all the talking I want. I was able to do that in the video interview that John Earl did and I was very happy with how it turned out. It shows everything I said. Nothing was edited. And no comercials.

Hmm, check this out, to be back on topic here.

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=14509

Not sure what to make of this, but could this be another protest SOS is doing?

After the one last Saturday, I went to the bus station to wait for my bus back to Laguna Hills. There, I got into some conversation with a few older gentlemen and they spoke of some barbeque. Could it be this one?

I saw pictures of last year when Francisco Jorge helped his good friend Robert Foyld who is a part of the National Vanguard to attacked Naui with a knife. This will be a great news. If we actually gave this info to the media.

looked at your pics...a bunch of people holding american flags with captions that said they were "skin heads" or "white supremacists." who writes these captions?

you guys call everyone racists and white supremacsists.

btw, i didn't see any pics of a knife.

u guys lie as usual.

Photo of Baldy(Stormfront guy), Frank Jorge, and I think Barbara Coe. I put a red circle around what could be a knife holder on Baldy's belt.

The sign reads "Hire An Illegal, You Go To Federal Prison"

Yet another example of Minuteman lies and scare tactics.

the ortiginal post said Robert Floyd and Frank Jorge attacked "naui" with a knife. where are the pics of anyone being attacked by a knife?

so what if he has a knife. lots of peole have knives. they are legal.

more hysterical crap from people who call everyone "racists" and "white supremacists"

you people are giving racism a good name. it's about time, too.

"you people are giving racism a good name. it's about time, too."

sounds like you want racism to have a good name. Why?

in that event Robert Floyd got arrested for reaching the kinfe. I know it's not a crime to carry a knife but if somebody use a knife to stab somebody. it is against the law.

wrong again. Floyd was not arrested. he was detained, searched and released in connection with an altercation. he was not taken into custody, was not arrested and was not charged.

as usual, you're wrong again.

error

it should read:

DEPORT THE GILCHRIST INVADERS

donnie got loss on what is "globalist". can u explain it for him?

just go away then, Don.

mmp/sos has been an authoritative organization. It is all about all your rank and file of your organization. If they show any dissent. they will be purged. and now, you would not let jarila answer herself that pathetic. I asked her because you have refuse to answer my question several times. Why should i email you? because you can place my email on the "goons list" and get my info. hell no!

Dude, you have the Gallery of Goons on your forums. I'm on there listed with false information. You guys are saying how I'm an SOS "groupie" but you guys seem obsessed with me, spending time talking about me because of a misspelled word and a poll on me. Even Eileen Garcia is getting in on the fun. One look at her behavior should convince any city council anywhere to not take her too seriously when it seems she's not taking anything in this issue seriously. All you guys do is fly insults and laughs at me, the people who support hard working day labor workers, and just about anyone else who does not emulate your mentality.

What is the Goon Gallery in the sos site then?

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showforum=71

Basically they show pictures of people they don't like and a profile they make up about them.

The Gallery is the pinned topic on top. There's also a topic on some guy named Eugene with information they really don't need to be posting on the internet.

Thought Gilchrist and Turner were making nice in Laguna, but it seems Turner has a new sugar daddy: Mike Chase, son of James Chase. Mike or James (it seems to depend on the day of the week) heads U.S. Borderwatch. But James Chase has just put out another attack on Gilchrist.

I just got this redirect from http://www.borderwatch.us/ :

Thank you for visiting www.borderwatch.us / www.californiaminutemen.com

Our website has moved to www.saveourstate.org.

If your browser does not automatically redirect you in 10 seconds,
click here to go to the new site.
Thank you!

mike.chase@borderwatch.us

The SOS board is down <grin>, but does anyone know who Joey is eloping with?

www.borderwatch.us is www.californiaminutemen.com is Tim Donnelly is Gilchrist's border hound. So Gilchrist apparently is turning his border action over to Turner, or Gilchrist has conceded the CA border to Chase, or Donnelly/Gilchrist is taking over SOS.

http://www.usborderwatch.com/ is Chase.

Sorry about the confusion. Now, can anyone help with some clarification?

Yes unfortunately Mike Chase has joined forces with SOS. I'm not sure if that means we'll see Mike in Laguna Beach protesting against the day labor center, standing with air humping Minutemen and guys who throw their muscle around making a doof of themselves like SS187.

Mike backed me up when I was speaking out on the Stormfront persons in the Gilchrist campaign. When Gilchrist emailed lots of people one of his rants on me, Mike replied to everyone and threw it right back at him, backing me up.

Later on Mike Chase notes that the Minuteman website, Gilchrist's Minutemen, states that they don't want any racists involved and says it could be retribution or something. I reminded Mike Chase via email that they always had that on their brochules and obviously I know firsthand that it's just words and don't mean jack. But he didn't respond well to my reminder.

Then he seemed to have merged forces with SOS and I was very surprised at that. I reminded him that according to member, then former member, now apparently current member Debbie Sattler, Joe Turner used to invite the Nazis to his rallies. He basically said that there are bad people everywhere and still chooses to join forces to keep things in one big group.

About the LAPD brutality at the recent Minuteman march, Mike Chase said that he didn't care if those types of people, the ones who got beaten, died.

So I dunno about Mike Chase. I thought he was running on total honestly and doing what he feels is right. Maybe he's aiming to please people too much and just likes to join forces. I dunno. To me there's a sense of him being lost to a bad crowd, a really bad and irresponsible crowd. Sorry to see it.

As for James Chase, I'm not sure what he's up to. But as far as I know, James himself has never joined back with Gilchrist and has never joined himself with SOS.

I remember he was at Baldwin Park. He was really quite becasue he was at the opposition side taking pictures. also, National Vanguard made a big showing at the first and second time at Baldwin Park.

Yeah James told me about that on the phone. I think he said he tried to run them off, I assume refering to the second Baldwin protest.

I think this is one of the latest peeps from James Chase, an email sent to lots of people.

________________________________
Please Pass This On: From James L Chase


Two things...Simcox exposed and CMM shut down Border ops at 2:30 May 7, 2006.

Watch this about Mr. Chris and tell me I was wrong.....
http://www.abc15.com/news/investigators/index_story.asp?did=26456
Well boys and girls,

Mr. Simcox was finally got caught by investigative reporters. I brought this stuff out to Minutemen including James Gilchrist in April at MMP AZ and many times thereafter. People that hammered me like I was a liar and a traitor are now the witnesses in this film report. Sgt. Major Geddy actual said I was not a Minuteman in AZ when I in fact showed him the ropes and handed him my map with my name on it. I left MMP AZ for medical treatment and to lose Mr. Simcox and his bad behavior.. Mr. Geiger did write and apologize to me. What I said about all the different bad Minutemen leaders like Simcox, Gilchrist, Ramirez, Robert Crooks, and a few others was absolutely true. I am not in the business of lying, my friends. During that time, all the money I got sent to CMM I sent to James Gilchrist. All the money Chris got he pocketed. He lied to James Gilchrist. I told JG, he pooh poohed me. Niw it is revealed by several witnesses.

Gilchrist people are pulling this with Minutemen in California during this Aprils border ops. They promise them and then leave them twisting in the wind. They even had a cash deal going with CMM's former field commander, I found out. What is up with that? Buying my people? Did not pay him....What is going on?

CMM never charged for membership. CMM paid if we said we would and I personally ended up presently deep in the hole. I had to borrow money. A lot of money.

It will take me until the end of the year to be in the black again, via Real Estate investing.

ALL WORTH IT, HOWEVER. Not complaining......just stating..

Simcox has done us all wrong but it had to come out...Next is Gilchrist, pandering to Nazi and Ranch Rescue Murders. This will also come out and trash us more...

Andy Ramirez bailed out with the funds before doing a thing, as I said he would. Everyone beefed me for my warnings on that and no apologies....

CMM is clean as a whistle..thank God....

Fight on troops....however you can. Most of the money went and continues to go to Chris and in California to that CON man Mr. Ramirez. Oh Well!

James L Chase
CMM Founder
______________________________________

That was from May 7, 2006. Obviously this indicates he won't compromise any integrity and join up with Gilchrist's people. He also made information about "Little Dog" known, since, you know, "Little Dog" is a murderer and drug user and somehow he's still doing border watch with other Minutemen. How exactly does that one slide by?