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Becky Johnson gets trashed by the JTR

by TW Wednesday, Jun. 28, 2006 at 1:57 PM

copied from http://jewishtribalreview.org/johnson2.htm

We [the JTR webmaster] received the following email message from an (apparently) Jewish "leftist" as follow-up to an earlier exchange. Left-wing, Right-wing, Chicken-wing, we think her message is a good example of the normative Jewish BLIND SPOT, across the Jewish political spectrum, and we'll deconstruct it. First, we let Ms. Johnson have her say. Then we break it down and illustrate its many falsehoods.


I'm a Leftist AND I Support Israel
by Becky Johnson

Dear Editors of the JTR,

I am a leftist. My grandparents were Communists in Finland and I was raised to believe that our society should be structured so that everyone has a home, everyone has food to eat, medical care, and a proper education. I have marched in the streets against George W. Bush's war in Iraq. I have written against the racist scheduled execution of Kevin Cooper. I ghost-wrote the resolution calling for a moratorium on the death penalty that the Santa Cruz City Council passed with a 7 - 0 vote. I hosted the Free Radio Santa Cruz radio station in my backyard for a year and half. (www.freakradio.org) I covered the Democratic National Convention in Los Angeles in 2000, and was clubbed by a member of the LAPD. I filed a federal lawsuit against the LAPD for excessive force and won a substantial settlement. I have written several articles against police brutality.

I support Food Not Bombs, and in my home town of Santa Cruz, I have been fighting for years to repeal the cruel anti-homeless Sleeping Ban which makes people criminals for the act of falling asleep between the hours of eleven PM and 8:30AM anywhere out of doors or in a vehicle within the City Limits.

I have been writing for Street Spirit, a homeless newspaper published by the American Friends Service Committee since 1996. I am a member of the Green Party and in the last election I voted for Ralph Nader.

And I support Israel.

I know for the vast majority of people who post to your site, and presumably those who visit this site, my last statement sounds like a non-sequiter. How can a person like myself, who seems to adhere to the leftist positions on nearly every other issue, support Israel?

I support Israel because Israel is deserving of support.

Israel is situated on 0.1% of the land in the mideast, yet it is accused of making a "land grab." Israel gave back 94% of the land it took over fighting a defensive war in 1967. Israel gave up this land to make peace with Egypt. Israel wants peace. Israel has always wanted peace with its neighbors.

Israel, unlike the United States, has no death penalty. Israel protects the rights of all people to worship their own religion freely. Israel supports gay and lesbian rights, completely unlike the 22 Arab/Muslim neighboring countries or the Palestinian Authority. When Israel had control of the West Bank between 1967 and 1993 (when the Oslo accords were signed), the quality of life for the average Palestinian increased dramatically. Israel brought in roads, electricity, and water systems to the West Bank, to the same areas where some on your website now accuse Israel of trying to steal their water from.

Israel is the only Jewish Country in the world.

Since Israel was formed in 1948, it has been attacked four times by its Arab neighbors joining forces to wage war. The lastest Intifada, which began 3 years ago has inflicted horrific damage on the Israeli civilian population. By contrast, the IDF has a strict policy to minimize civilian causalties whenever possible. Israel has the right to defend itself. Look at the death tolls of Palestinians and Israelis. If the IDF is shooting civilians, how come they only seem to hit men? Only 2.8% of the Palestinians killed were women while 25% of the Israeli dead are women.

I do not believe the Palestinians want an independant state. They have been offered one many times, by Barak in 2000, and by George W. Bush in 2003 with his "Road Map". The Palestinians have responded with more violence. Arafat is corrupt and has literally made off with the countries treasury stored in Swiss Bank accounts while his people suffer in poverty. Israel is not to blame for this.

Israel is NOT illegally occupying the West Bank. Israel took over this land in 1967 in a defensive war from Jordan who had seized the land in 1948. Resolution 242 by the UN granted Israel stewardship of the West Bank until a peace agreement could be reached. No such agreement has been possible but not because Israel was unwilling. In every case, it was the Palestinians who ended any possiblity of a peaceful solution. Some say Israel liberated Judea and Samaria from the Jordanian occupation.

Israel is not an "apartheid state" and is not "stealing Palestinian land." The checkpoints are an attempt to stop the suicide bombers, and if they inconvenience the Palestinian people, they should blame the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Islamic Jihad, and Hamas. Israel is not to blame for this. Israel is only trying to save lives.

My fellow leftists have bought the poor, downtrodden Palestinian myth hook, line and sinker. I think most are well-intentioned people, but they have been woefully mislead by many of the writers who post to the JTR.

You can read some more of my articles at a profoundly pro-Israel site called www.dafka.org

I am a leftist. And I support Israel. If you knew all the facts, you would too.

--- Becky Johnson


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Jewish Tribal Review Response:

Becky: "I am a leftist. My grandparents were Communists in Finland"

JTR: You do not state whether or not you are Jewish. Given the intensity of your dedication to the apartheid cause of Israel, we'd say the chances that you're Jewish are 90+ percent. Otherwise, you would have to be married (or separated) from a Jewish partner who has succeeded in brainwashing you. But the smart money says you are Jewish: stereotypically so. Non-Jewish "leftists" have little tendency to share your hypocritical obsession with the immoral Jewish state.

Yes. Jews have a long history of communism and have succeeded in killing a lot of people in history over it.

Becky: "and I was raised to believe that our society should be structured so that everyone has a home, everyone has food to eat, medical care, and a proper education."

JTR: So why don't you apply these principles to the Palestinians?

Becky: "I have marched in the streets against George W. Bush's war in Iraq. I have written against the racist scheduled execution of Kevin Cooper. I ghost-wrote the resolution calling for a moratorium on the death penalty that the Santa Cruz City Council passed with a 7 - 0 vote. I hosted the Free Radio Santa Cruz radio station in my backyard for a year and half. (www.freakradio.org) I covered the Democratic National Convention in Los Angeles in 2000, and was clubbed by a member of the LAPD. I filed a federal lawsuit against the LAPD for excessive force and won a substantial settlement. I have written several articles against police brutality."

JTR: Congratulations. But the true credential of your self-prescribed social conscience nobility will be when you are clubbed by the Israeli military for resisting Jewish racism. How many articles about Israeli "brutality" have you written? How many articles have you written about Jewish racism, or Israeli racism? How many articles about Jewish hypocrisy have you written? Why is resisting American authority figures singularly kosher, but resisting Jewish authoritarianism is a taboo for you?

You seem to have an interest in "racism," yet you don't mention endemic Israeli racism or, for that matter, the Jewish version of the same thing. Shame on you.

Becky: "I support Food Not Bombs, and in my home town of Santa Cruz,"

JTR: How can you rationalize the grotesque dichotomy between this and your support of the brutal Israeli military, which has hundreds of nuclear weapons, a biological weapons arsenal, and routinely slaughters children and innocents?

Becky: "I have been fighting for years to repeal the cruel anti-homeless Sleeping Ban which makes people criminals for the act of falling asleep between the hours of eleven PM and 8:30AM anywhere out of doors or in a vehicle within the City Limits."

JTR: How do you rationalize the absurd notion that you fight for "homeless" rights when the racist state of Israel (which you are an ACTIVIST for) has made millions of Palestinians homeless refugees? It is absurd and you should be ashamed of yourself. You are a hypocrite. And hypocrisy is a Jewish norm.

Becky: "I have been writing for Street Spirit, a homeless newspaper published by the American Friends Service Committee since 1996. I am a member of the Green Party and in the last election I voted for Ralph Nader.

And I support Israel."

JTR: Grotesque. And obscene. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Becky: "I know for the vast majority of people who post to your site, and presumably those who visit this site, my last statement sounds like a non-sequiter."

JTR: No, it sounds like the usual Jewish self-delusion. The question must be always asked: is Jewish victimhood ideology implicitly evil and exploitive, or does the notion of "being Jewish" automatically encompass sleight-of-hand in the Jewish psyche to render the powerful illusorily dispossessed? In other words, poor rich Jews! The most sinister aspect of your presentation so far is that you mask your expressly Judeocentric racism with claims to good deeds for others. Your chauvinism, racism, and tribal ethnocentrism is masked by your self-delusion of "leftist" universalism, while your ideology, per Israel, underscores your deep, deep root to the exploitive Jewish Tribe.

Becky: "How can a person like myself, who seems to adhere to the leftist positions on nearly every other issue, support Israel? I support Israel because Israel is deserving of support. Israel is situated on 0.1% of the land in the mideast, yet it is accused of making a "land grab."

JTR: Jews from around the world have sequentially invaded Palestine -- especially in the 20th century -- with the intent, always, of seizing it from them. If you declare that Israel is the automatic "land of the Jews," you are relying upon the Torah (Old Testament) foundation which has little to do with being a "leftist." It has to do with being a Jewish "Chosen People" racist, who were guaranteed land by their God via genocide against the Canaanites. A land of the Jews, from a secular standpoint, could just as well been part of Kenya or Uganda (and that was even considered by the early Zionist movement). But surely, as a "leftist," you recognize that if that had happened, local Africans of the area would surely by now have risen up against the Jewish colonists in their midst.

If you take 0.1% of my land against my will, or that portion of my food, or anything, you are what is known as a THIEF. Are you insinuating that Jews have the right to seize 0.1% of the land (or 1%, or 10%, or 100%) anywhere they feel they can bomb the indigenous people into submission?

Still further, why do you intrinsically ignore the basic human rights of the particular people living on that 0.1% of the land that was stolen? They didn't do anyone any harm. They just were just there, i.e., they existed and Jews like you don't want them to exist. Let's look at percentages in a more meaningful way: Jews stole 100% of the land of those who were robbed of their living space. It's as if you stole the house of one the homeless people you champion. Does it feel good? Does it give you moral satisfaction?

The fact that you champion this is obscene. You should be ashamed of your racist and brutal allegiance to the corrupt Israel state.

Becky: "Israel gave back 94% of the land it took over fighting a defensive war in 1967."

JTR: "Defensive war?" Israel is, by nature, an AGGRESSIVE state. It's primary mode of operation is to push Arabs OUT. Read your Benny Morris, among others. Morris (the Israeli historian) is, like you, both devoted to Israel (as a self-declared "Zionist") and calls himself a "Leftist." But "leftism" traditionally infers a broad-based universalistic humanism. Zionism, and support for Israel, is a vile form of racist, chauvinist nationalism. If you call yourself a "leftist," you should qualify it as a "Zionist Leftist." Arguably then, you are something akin to a "Zionist Fascist Leftist."

Becky: "Israel gave up this land to make peace with Egypt. Israel wants peace. Israel has always wanted peace with its neighbors."

JTR: Israel wants "peace" in the same way a thief wants "peace" with the victim robbed. Israel wants client Arab states all around it. Witness what happened to Iraq. Witness what Israel wants done to Syria. Witness how Israel has treated Lebanon. Witness Israel's tentative plans to bomb (non-Arab) Iran. Israel also wants virtual Arab slaves to take care of the menial tasks of the Jewish state. It was always Palestinians who did the shit work, but once they started rebelling, the racist Jewish state has begun importing "foreign workers" from Thailand, Eastern Europe, Kenya, and other places to take orders from Jews (and with NO substantial rights).

Foreign workers are treated like dogs, as are indigenous Arabs. In your support of Hellhole Israel, you defend this.

Becky: "Israel, unlike the United States, has no death penalty."

JTR: Israel doesn't NEED a death penalty. A military state kills as a matter of course. It slaughters Palestinian children with impunity. It tortures people by the thousands (check out the Amnesty International reports, etc.) Its steady program of "targetted assasinations" (condemned by many in the world community) has something to do with a "death penalty," don't you think? But there's no charges. No trial. No nothing. If you suspect a few Arabs of organizing violence against Jewish violence, you apparently endorse Israeli policy in shooting a missile at them to kill everyone on the block. Witness the murder yesterday of Sheik Yassin, the old man in the wheelchair, as he was pushed out of a mosque in the concentration camp of Gaza. Where's he going to go? Arabs there are like fish in a bowl for Isaeli jets and helicopters. And, please, don't give me that lame Jewish whine that he was a "terrorist" and deserved to die. Palestinian "terrorism" is the liberation war of the impoverished oppressed. If the Palestinians had an army and they warred it out on the battlefield with Israeli troops, it would be more difficult to smear them as maniacal barbarians. (But, yes, Jews would do it.)

Palestinian "suicide bombers" are an inevitable expression of the poor man's war. Tossing stones against jets, missiles, helicopters, and all isn't much of a fair fight. People do what they must in their struggle for justice. They sacrifice their lives for what they believe in. The same as Israeli oppressers. Why do want the Arab people to hobble around on all fours beneath the Jewish boot, mere sheep? If you and your beloved Klan, my dear, were treated like an animal, locked up in a giant concentration camp against the sea (like Gaza), despised and mistreated on a daily basis, tortured and killed, and with no hope for any sort of future for yourself, your family, and your community, I assure you that your perspective would be quite different. Think of it terms that will endear the Palestinian struggle to your cold, cold heart: the Warsaw ghetto. What if the entrapped Jews embarked upon a "suicide bombing" program against the Nazis? As you know and I know, you would endorse that as a legitimate struggle of the hopelessly dispossessed. Not only that Ms. Johnson. In another context, in a desperate one, you might well be one of the "suicide bombers."

Becky: "Israel protects the rights of all people to worship their own religion freely."

JTR: That's absurd. It's a lie. It's obscene for you to say this. The civil administration of Israeli society (marriage, divorce, funerals, etc.) is run by dictate of Orthodox Judaism. If a Jew wants to marry a Muslim, for example, its illegal and the pair must go to Cyprus to get married. If a Christian or Muslim wants to ride a bus on the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday), they won't find one because Israeli bus service shuts down. HUNDREDS of mosques (and villages and cemeteries) have been obliterated since the founding of the Jewish state, towards erasing Arab history and replacing it with Jewish mythology.

The inanely hypocritical "tolerance" factory, the Simon Wiesenthal Center even has its branch in Jerusalem built on top of a Muslim cemetery. Top Christian religious officials must be sanctioned by Israeli (i.e., Jewish) government authorities. A few years ago legislation was proposed by Members of Knesset (the Israeli parliament) to make it illegal for Christians to encourage others to join their faith.

Becky: "Israel supports gay and lesbian rights, completely unlike the 22 Arab/Muslim neighboring countries or the Palestinian Authority."

JTR: Again, you are in error. Per "gay and lesbian rights," secular civil authority in the Jewish state is run by Orthodox Judaism. Look in the Code of Jewish Law to see what the Talmud says about gays. AND what to do to them. Spend some time in an Ultra-Orthodox (chassidic) community. There are plenty of them in the Jewish state.

Hey. Go to Israel. Marry an Israeli. Then try and get a divorce from him without his permission. It won't happen. Why? Because Jewish Orthodoxy runs this realm of Israeli civil society. My dear, you'll find you're stuck to your rotten husband with a legal chain and you'll be thinking you're surrounded by the Taliban in the Jewish state.

Read British Jewish author Lesley Hazelton's comments in her books about the oppression of Jewish women in Israel. Take a look at some of the domestic violence statistics we have posted at this web site. Read Andrea Dworkin's comments about the "Holocaust" pornography industry in the Jewish state. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

Becky: "When Israel had control of the West Bank between 1967 and 1993 (when the Oslo accords were signed), the quality of life for the average Palestinian increased dramatically."

JTR: This is myth. You should be ashamed of yourself. But that's not all. Any "leftist" (or human being, for God's sake) worth his or her salt will recognize that people are entitled to their OWN notions about their "quality of life." You're spewing nonsense right out of Israeli Propaganda Central. By the same token, I guess we should forget Jewish opinion about World War II --following your logic, we should check the Nazi record books to determine how Jews were faring in Germany. Ask a Palestinian about their "quality of life" in apartheid Israel and the Occupied Territories. Guess what they'll say? Take off my chains. Why do imperial Jews always get to dictate their standard of happiness? Because Jews insist upon controlling the Palestinian people like cattle.

The Israeli government has very clear dual standards in the allocation of funds and resources to Jews and Arabs in the Jewish state. Israeli sociologists have written plenty about it, for instance Sammy Smooha. The dual standards of money allocation for Jewish and Arab towns in Israel are well-documented. You can find some of this documentation at this web site.

And sorry. If Jewish invasion and occupation affords an extra loaf once and the while at cost of my children getting murdered by Israeli troops and Jewish degradation of my identity on a daily basis, I choose that Jews go back to where they came from. In the views of many Palestinians, the brutal Israelis probably flew in on the backs of bats out of Hell.

Becky: "Israel brought in roads, electricity, and water systems to the West Bank, to the same areas where some on your website now accuse Israel of trying to steal their water from."

JTR: What "accuse?" It is fact. Without Jews in the Occupied Territories, I assure you that "roads," "electricity," and "water systems" would exist. They just wouldn't be controlled by Jews to exploit and oppress Arabs. Modern Israel (the "holy land" for so many) is increasingly a giant garbage dump. Jewish pollution in the Military Industrial state is astounding, including the poisoning of what little water there is in the area.

Becky: "Israel is the only Jewish Country in the world."

JTR: Not quite. You forget America. And a few others in the Western sphere. Also, I don't know of any other country so explicitly founded on racism (albeit disguised). ONLY JEWS (religious, atheist, or whatever) ALLOWED.

Becky: "Since Israel was formed in 1948, it has been attacked four times by its Arab neighbors joining forces to wage war. The lastest Intifada, which began 3 years ago has inflicted horrific damage on the Israeli civilian population."

JTR: The Intifada is a revolt against oppression: Jewish oppression. Again, think of it in terms surely beloved to you: the Warsaw Ghetto. Gaza is a giant Warsaw Ghetto, as is the West Bank. All aspects of Arab life are controlled by Israeli Jews, by force. This has been going on for decades. The "horrific damage" to a "civilian population" honestly means the Palestinians. The racist Jewish state continues to destroy them, in all manners.

Becky: "By contrast, the IDF has a strict policy to minimize civilian causalties whenever possible."

JTR: Horseshit. Read the documented material at this web site. Benny Morris' recent revelations in Haaretz (the Israeli journal) about the many massacres, rapes, and atrocities committed by Israeli troops should make satisfactory reading for you. The Atlantic Monthly author who noted that he had, in all his war travels, never seen children murdered "for sport" the way Israeli troops do it is also a memorable observation.

Becky: "Israel has the right to defend itself."

JTR: As do the Palestinians. While Israel has tanks and jet bombers and nuclear bombs and biological weapons, the Palestinians have stones and home-made bombs. Saying "Israel has the right to defend itself" is like saying the rapist has a right to defend himself against punches from his victim.

Becky: "Look at the death tolls of Palestinians and Israelis. If the IDF is shooting civilians, how come they only seem to hit men? Only 2.8% of the Palestinians killed were women while 25% of the Israeli dead are women."

JTR: What kind of logic is this? And where are your references to children? The Jewish army's carnage against Palestinian children?

Becky: "I do not believe the Palestinians want an independant state."

JTR: Of course not. You are a propagandist. A propagandist has no interest in believing anything except a preformulated ideology. Your entire assertion here is your "belief" (i.e., faith (secular? "Fascist Leftist?") about racist Israel). Facts don't deter "belief," and certainly never Jewish dedication to other Jews.

Becky: "They have been offered one many times, by Barak in 2000, and by George W. Bush in 2003 with his "Road Map". The Palestinians have responded with more violence. Arafat is corrupt and has literally made off with the countries treasury stored in Swiss Bank accounts while his people suffer in poverty. Israel is not to blame for this."

JTR: Israel is to blame for EVERYTHING. Not only is Israel "corrupt," but so is world Jewry that supports it. Apparently, including you, as a supporter. The Jewish pro-Israel Lobby runs U.S. foreign policy. The poor Palestinians are completely at the mercy of moral fraudsters like you.

Becky: "Israel is NOT illegally occupying the West Bank. Israel took over this land in 1967 in a defensive war from Jordan who had seized the land in 1948. Resolution 242 by the UN granted Israel stewardship of the West Bank until a peace agreement could be reached. No such agreement has been possible but not because Israel was unwilling. In every case, it was the Palestinians who ended any possiblity of a peaceful solution. Some say Israel liberated Judea and Samaria from the Jordanian occupation."

JTR: The oppressed do not give a shit about "legalities." Those in power make "law" to accomodate their needs and interests. The Palestinians are treated like beasts by Jews. That's all anyone needs to understand about the origins of "terrorism."

Becky: "Israel is not an "apartheid state" and is not "stealing Palestinian land." The checkpoints are an attempt to stop the suicide bombers, and if they inconvenience the Palestinian people, they should blame the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Islamic Jihad, and Hamas. Israel is not to blame for this. Israel is only trying to save lives."

JTR: Of course Jews are guilty of nothing, now, in the past, or in the future. Never. The Arabs are beasts. As are Christians. As are everyone else in the Jewish road to self-aggrandizement. This is the mantra of the self-obsessed Jewish band of "chosen people" racists who guarantee continued anti-Jewish hostility, as evidenced in their long troubled past and chosen destiny.

Becky: "My fellow leftists have bought the poor, downtrodden Palestinian myth hook, line and sinker. I think most are well-intentioned people, but they have been woefully mislead by many of the writers who post to the JTR."

JTR: "The poor, downtrodden Jewish myth" is the CORE of Jewish identity and the ideological foundation of Israel. You are hypocrite and a moral coward.

Becky: "You can read some more of my articles at a profoundly pro-Israel site called www.dafka.org I am a leftist. And I support Israel. If you knew all the facts, you would too."

JTR: Yours is self-delusion and legend. The "facts" are posted, with complete documentation, at this web site. You have no excuse to hide from them, except the enormous pull of incessant Judeocentrism and your own self-denial on this count. The "facts" are merely a click away. Quick! Run from the truth before basic human decency forces you to join the Palestinian cause:

1) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi.htm
2) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi2.htm
3) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi3.htm
4) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi4.htm
5) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi5.htm
6) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi6.htm
7) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi7.htm
8) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi8.htm
9) http://jewishtribalreview.org/28israe.htm

Ms. Johnson, support for Israel is a modern Jewish moral sickness, and it is extremely widespread in the neurotic Jewish community, a band of bigots who incessantly perceives of itself as "victims," even as they exploit and oppress everyone within their reach. Your sordid allegiance to apartheid Israel also means that you implicitly endorse the following Israeli obscenities (merely the tip of the iceberg):

1) An undying -- and spreading -- hatred of America and Israel by untold millions of people throughout the world, largely from -- but not only -- Islamic countries who recognize only brutality and hypocrisy when it thinks of this Tweedle Dee-Tweedle Dum duo, a brutality that is systematically screened and qualified by America's Judeocentric mass media and political pundits.

2) The prospects of an American war on behalf of Israeli interests to remold an Arab regime as a client state to Jewish needs, at the cost of up to a trillion dollars to be borne by American citizens, and untold American and Iraqi lives and suffering while Israelis watch, protected by new forms of American defensive missiles. (Also, of course, is the prospect for extended world war and chaos of all varieties and in all places).

3) An American government swarming -- at all tiers -- with Jewish dual loyalists who harbor divided allegiance between Israel and the United States.

4) An open invitation (thanks to incessant Jewish American lobbying to brings masses of Russian Jews to our shores) for the notorious Russian Mafia (which is largely Jewish) to take hold in America. As an American state department official noted in the mid-1990s, ALL major Russian Mafia members in the U.S. had Israeli passports.

5) Support for a country, Israel, where "money laundering has reached colossal proportions in the last few years, fuelled by the rise of Russian organised-crime since the collapse of the Soviet Union."

6) A draining of American economic resources from crucial education and social problems to buttress an increasingly neo-fascistic military garrison across the world. Even as we prepare to go to war with Iraq on behalf of Israel at an ultimate cost of perhaps a trillion dollars, the American Congress had not bothered to extend unemployment benefits for the jobless into 2003.

7) Support for the international "sex slave" trade, of which Israel ranks near the top in the world (and, as addenda, the Jewish preeminence in the American pornography and smut worlds). "Israel does not yet meet the minimum standards for combating trafficking in persons, and has not yet made significant efforts to combat the problem," noted the U.S. State Department in 2001.

8) Support for a nation that has gone mad with violence, even within the intra-Jewish sphere. Over 11% of Israeli women have been assaulted by their husbands. In a country of about 4 million Jews, 142,000 women were beaten in the past year, 40,000 required medical treatment, and 15,000 were hospitalized. "146,000 women were raped at least once and 2 percent of these were threatened with murder ... Some 417,000 children up to the age of five (57 percent of the children this age) have suffered moderate corporal punishment such as being shaken, pushed or slapped ... Of the six to 18 year olds, more than 550,000 - 39 percent of all the children - suffered moderate violence in past year, while 115,000 (8 percent) suffered severe violence." The Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz even declared "Something evidently is very wrong with our society. Lack of manners, rudeness, hot tempers, impatience, aggressive attitudes, and violence have become hallmarks of our behavior to each other, and the symptoms are getting worse by the day ... What, then, has happened to us? Why have the ugly features of our society become so predominant?"

9) Support for a nation that recently refused to join a new International Code of Conduct aimed at "blocking proliferation of ballistic missile technology."

10) Support for a country that was found in 1998 to be "an international center for pirate distribution - estimating that the extent of the forgery industry reached tens, maybe hundreds, of millions of dollars."

11) Support for Israel's severe lack of press freedom (i.e., media free speech). Of 139 countries, in 2002 Israel's press freedom was ranked 92nd by the Reporters Without Borders press organization. This number nestles among Third World potentates and dictatorial banana republics. Even Israel's immediate nemesis, the battered Palestinian Authority, ranked better than the Israeli state, ranked at number 82.

12) Support of Israel's preeminence in the world of the immoral and exploitative buying and selling body organs, largely cut out of the non-Jewish poor, throughout the Third World.

13) Support of an endemically corrupt, racketeering Jewish country the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz deplored as "Racketstan."

14) Support of an apartheid regime, a country that practices "ethnic cleansing" even upon its Christian members.

15) Support for a country that uses Lutheran schoolchildren as human shields.

16) Support of, arguably, the most obnoxious people in the world. The Israeli "sabra" national personality is renowned for its rudeness, lack of civility, arrogance, and "chutzpah," and is commented upon throughout the Jewish/Israeli community. In kind, in counterpoint, Palestinians/Arabs (long known for their generous hospitality) are rendered on the popular media stage to be virtually animals.

17) Support for a country that kills children "for sport," buries people alive, drops 1,000-pound bombs on schools for the blind, murders 95-year old women, and comes under condemnation by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch for "war crimes."

18) Support for a nation that imposes curfews on Palestinians and kills them if they violate it. In one four-month period 80% of those murdered this way were children.

19) Support for the Israeli military that routinely tortures people, sometimes including children.

20) Support for the legendary land of a people who perpetually whine and make more and more demands for reparations, and requisite homage, for past historical events including the "Holocaust" that happened during a World War across the Earth over half a century ago, as PART of a catastrophic World War that took between a forgotten 50-60 million lives. The socialization process of homage to Jewish victimhood and Jewish socio-political advantage -- as well as providing a "moral" undergirding for the outrages of modern racist Israel -- includes Jewish-dominated Hollywood's 170+ films about the Holocaust, enough to take up most of your time in between helping your kid study for his Holocaust Appreciation classes.

21) Support for the country awarded in 2002 the world's worst housing rights violator award by the Geneva-based Center on Housing Rights and Evictions (COHRE).

22) Support for Israel as the world's record holder in ignoring United Nations Security Council resolutions. (Disobeying such UN resolution is, of course, a major justification cited for U.S. plans to invade Israel's enemy, Iraq). Israel, through 2002, has violated UN Security Council resolutions 32 times.

23) Support for a country that is so dangerously oppressive to United Nations workers that they feel compelled to band together to write a formal petition against Israeli "harassment, beating and killing of United Nations staff."

24) Support for a country, Israel, which passes along American weapons technology to its nemesis: China.

25) Support for a country that gets billions of dollars to buy military equipment and then plans on parking some of its warplanes in the United States (support for a mainland U.S. Israeli military force if needed there?).

26) Support for a nation that, by May 2001, had shot 20 foreign journalists during their coverge of the Palestinian uprising against Israeli subjegation and oppression. "The Israeli government is refusing to deal with [this]," complained Howard Goller, chairman of the Foreign Press Association.

27) Support for a country that has been sued -- as a nation -- by another country (Thailand) for institutionalized exploitation and rip-offs of (of course non-Jewish) Thai workers in the Jewish state.

28) Increased corruption by an American government that is completely out of touch with its citizen constituents who ARE NOT Jewish, a government that refuses a foreign policy that would benefit those who make no Judeocentric demands. An example of this is the January request by the state of Israel for nearly $12 billion in charity (a sum larger than the U.S. aid given to ALL countries on the planet the prior year). This outrageous sum request was expected to be granted, even while the Bush administration refused American states a "$674 million economic stimulus package."

29) Increased repression of American citizens and the curtailing of traditional freedoms and privacy. This is in direct response to the threat of Muslim "terrorists," which is at root a last ditch attempt to throw out Jewish -- and Western imperialism -- from their lands. The very foundation of the "radical" Islamic complaint is even systematically and TOTALLY obscured in the Judeo-centric mass media. Bin Laden has expressly complained about Jewish oppression, and this is not allowed to become part of popular argument for debate in America.

30) Support for a country whose citizens dominate eveything from the illegal drug "ecstasy" distribution into the Western world to hashish monopolies in parts of India.

31) Support for "the world's best-known and most efficient 'secret' manufacturer of weapons of mass destruction [including a] nuclear, biological and chemical warfare programme that even the Israeli Knesset cannot get access to, let alone the United Nations." This includes Nazi-like Israeli research into an "ethnic bomb" wherein "deadly micro-organisms" attack only those with distinctive Arab genes. Science fiction? Horror movie? A joke? It's for real.

32) And, to top this all off with a nice black cherry, there are worries in Israel that organized crime and other assorted scoundrels are taking over the ruling political party, the Likud.

Please note that this mere sampling of corruption and immorality represents a country that has always been declared by American Jews to be EXEMPLARY of "Jewish values" in its "mission" to enlighten the world. These people obviously are living in chronic denial. Or they just don't care what Israel has become. Please also note that according to one recent study by Jewish organizations, over 90% of those who responded to a survey of American Jews declared that they at least "somewhat supported" the Jewish state.

We live in an American society where it is taboo to criticize the Jewish community. We live in a society where a profoundly Jewish prominence in the upper tiers of the mass media, government, the publishing world, the formal intelligentsia, the art world, and popular culture at-large ensure an iron bias towards Jewish ethnocentrism and support of the violent and corrupt Jewish state, aka "Racketstan."

(The above numbered list is an excerpt from WELCOME TO AMERISRAELISTAN, by Chad Powers http://jewishtribalreview.org/amerisrael.htm ).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Note: Ms. Johnson seems to define herself as a "Bahai." But here below she speaks also of "my rabbi." A "Jewish Bahai?" A Jewish convert to Bahaism?

A True Leftist Speaks Out,
by Becky Johnson, dafka
Santa Cruz, Ca. -- I see myself as a liberal and a socialist. I recognize that the United States is a capitalistic representative democracy, and unlikely to nationalize major industries anytime soon. So my role, is to remind the bureaucrats and the business leaders, and the rich and powerful that they have a responsibility to see than no one gets left behind in the great leap forward. Jewish values are key here. Remember all those stories about not harvesting the field in the corners? Leaving enough behind for the gleaners? Jewish law teaches that we are our brother's keeper. Christianity, Islam, and the Bahai faith all spring from the Torah and the Talmud. That means, the whole world over, that we should be able to house the homeless. My rabbi told me, "They say the poor we shall always have with us, but they don't say the homeless. There's no excuse for homelessness."
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Why is TW suddenly

by another question Wednesday, Jun. 28, 2006 at 2:33 PM

here and not posting in Indybay?
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Bravo Becky

by The Becky Johnson fan club Wednesday, Jun. 28, 2006 at 2:42 PM

Becky defended herself beautifully and was the very model of poise and self control in the face of that unrelenting attack. Bravo, BeckY!

Contrast that with, oh, lets say JA, who was turned into a sputtering madman when Stephen Zunes challenged his beliefs at Marin Community College a few months ago. JA was led away from the podium still foaming at the mouth.

When it comes to style and substance, Becky is the winner, hands down.
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Look, it's Tinky Winky

by gehrig Wednesday, Jun. 28, 2006 at 7:06 PM

Ah, Tink, check out "Jewish Tribal Review" in a little more detail. You'll especially enjoy the links to the Holocaust denial sites. You'd have to be a raving antisemite to consider JTR a legitim ... oh, wait, this is TW, isn't it.

@%<
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A "festival?" Ask your fellow fan club member.

by TW Wednesday, Jun. 28, 2006 at 7:48 PM

"...a slam Becky festival?"

Wouldn't that take, like, multiple people? I mean, for it to qualify as, you know... a "festival?" Thus far it's lookin like a jam-packed amen corner for Becky around here.

So, this is where the West Coast branch of the Palestine-baby-shish-ke-bab Club is meeting these days, eh? Looks like I'm going to have to pull my clod-hoppers on and put in some time reefing all your assholes outta here just like I did at Indybay -- ha HAAAA!!!!

Yeah, that's right, snookums, that's what I'm doing here. Who is that? Tia? CM? Hey baby, nice to be back in the sack witcha (tongue waggle)!

That's assuming, of course, that LA IMC isn't one of your rat's nests. There's bound to be a reason behind this amen corner here. I mean, c'mon, this is INDYMEDIA! "Radical alternative news" not "Racist fuck-head news!!" And yet here we have the Israelist equivalent of crackers dressed in white sheets saying "Reverend Falwell made a beautiful point about 9-11 being God's wrath against fags. Bravo, Beck-- uh, I mean Reverend!" Don't you people have your own version of www.Stormfront.org or something you can go hang out on?

"Why is LA-IMC republising stuff from the vile, racist cesspit?"

Is sleazy political opportunism like hard-wired into your nervous systems or something? Man, your cheap-ass canned tactics never vary! It shows how your whole political thing is like a hive-mentality voodoo cult or something. Here, try these pools of cesspit-water. Let's see if they tell a cogent story, or if they're just the ravings of madmen

1) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi.htm
2) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi2.htm
3) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi3.htm
4) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi4.htm
5) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi5.htm
6) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi6.htm
7) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi7.htm
8) http://jewishtribalreview.org/iszi8.htm
9) http://jewishtribalreview.org/28israe.htm

Holeee shiyeeeit, lookit THAT! It's, like, hundreds and hundreds of top-echelon media articles that make Israel look like a horde of psychotic criminals! Even the Forward and Ha'aretz got in on it!?! You mean the cook-all-Jews-in-boiling-acid global master plan even got to THEM!!?!?!?!!! OmiG-d, that's so scary! I think we should consider the Samson Option!

http://www.carolmoore.net/nuclearwar/israelithreats.html
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Trashed by Racist Trash. ho hum

by Becky Johnson Wednesday, Jun. 28, 2006 at 8:41 PM
Santa Cruz, CA.

MESSAGE TO TRUTH WARPER: This exchange between the Jewish Tribal Review happened a couple of years ago and is hardly "news." However, being trashed by JTR is no problem at all. If they praised me, then I'd be worried.

If Indybay is so pristine, after having censored all of us, why don't you stay up there where its so clean, pretty, and so darn quiet???

TO LA.IMC READERS: Check the site out for 30 seconds or more and you will notice its singular attempt to condemn anything Jewish or having to do with Israel. there is no attempt to document any "Israeli abuse" because for the editors of JTR, ad hominem attacks are plenty good enough.

Note their obsession in determining if I am Jewish or not.
(I am not).

Nor did they ever refute my contention that leftists who believe in Leftist principles of social responsibility, and equal treatment SHOULD support Israel because it embodies these principles far better than the PA does.

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thanks becky

by charismatic megafauna Wednesday, Jun. 28, 2006 at 11:01 PM

You wrote a beautiful letter.

On that note, since you're a Green, have you considered working to overturn Resolution 190 (the resolution for divestment from Israel)? http://www.advocatesforisrael.org/todo.html

These people are hardcore anti-semites. I dont throw this accusation around much, but come on....JEWISH TRIBAL REVIEW, the homepage has links to Jewish websites to keep track of Jews, and in their response they pulled out the good old Jew/Commie hate.

Oh, and hey TW!
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Stomped into mudd.

by Lunchbox Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 2:17 AM

Wow, the JTR really stuck it to you, didn't they Becky? They are right on the mark with their scathing analysis of your blatant hypocrisy. So this JTR response was written several years ago and you are still at it? That's pretty pathetic,

Becky. Do you even know why it's pathetic? Because you will keep doing it and doing it and yet anyone with any sense that pays any attention at all to your ravings will recongnize your blatant hypocrisy within minutes, and yet you will never see it yourself because you are so blinded. Vein, venomous, and vile.

This from an impartial observer with no opinion on the Israel-Palestine conflict, and no stake in the outcome.
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TW?

by Shit. there goes the neighborhood Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 4:10 AM

There goes the neighborhood.

Don't you have a different IMC to fill up with your special brand of hypocritical waste products? Or have you been banned from all of them yet?
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Tink's antisemitic source

by gehrig Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 4:23 AM

Let's take a look at the site Tink is endorsing.

Well, look, there's "Stojgniev O'Donnell" the Holocaust denier: "Six million, in fact, was the cabalistic number Jews were already using at the start of the twentieth century to refer to the “suffering Jews” of Russia. It has nothing to do with history. I don’t deny the Nazis executed Jews (and other groups as well), but I am outraged that Jews have never shown serious interest in determining the actual number of Jewish deaths, which at any rate, never totaled six million."

Here's John Kaminsky, the raving antisemite: "The monolithic media monstrosity that keeps this conclusion from us is almost exclusively Jewish. NPR, CBS, NBC, ABC and the thousands of other organizations from which we gather our information are all controlled by Jews. The medical and legal professions are controlled by Jews. The National Education Association is controlled by Jews. The White House and the Congress are controlled by Jews."

Here's Wehrmacht Wendy Campbell, calling for a list of journalists so you can find out whether or not a given article was written by a Jew.

Here's the antisemite Joe Sobran, talking about the talk he gave to the Holocaust denial organization "Institute for Historical Review."

Here's the neo-Nazi National Vanguard's "When Victims Rule: A Critique of Jewish Pre-Eminence in America." The fact that it comes from a neo-Nazi organization, by the way, isn't mentioned. Funny how that works.

Oh, yeah, Tink. That's one very impressive source you've embraced.

@%<
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Reminder about (out to) Lunchbox

by Scapegoated Jew Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 6:32 AM

No matter how many times he protests to be "an impartial observer with no opinion on the Israel-Palestine conflict", he's been lying about that since day one and has proven himself to suffer from negative credibility. Clearly he's biased in favor of the Palestinians and anti-Israel at least as much as 'nessie' is.
I've got to admit I've missed his trolling and baiting as well as trading blows with him. Humiliating anti-Zionists can hardly be more fun.
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How am I a hypocrite???

by Becky Johnson Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 6:36 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

RYAN (LUNCHBOX) WRITES: "They are right on the mark with their scathing analysis of your blatant hypocrisy."

BECKY: Actually they accused me of hypocrisy but they didn't prove it. Here is an example:

JTR: "Non-Jewish "leftists" have little tendency to share your hypocritical obsession with the immoral Jewish state."

BECKY: This is after the comment where they say "smart money has it you are Jewish" which shows how smart they are...NOT!!! But back to the hypocrisy charge.

I have been writing, demonstrating, and advocating for the civil rights of homeless people for the past ten years.

JTR says "JTR: How can you rationalize the grotesque dichotomy between this and your support of the brutal Israeli military, which has hundreds of nuclear weapons, a biological weapons arsenal, and routinely slaughters children and innocents?"

BECKY: I am unaware of a biological weapons arsenal in the IDF. It DOES have nuclear weapons, but has never threatened any other country with them. As for the claim that the IDF "routinely slaughters children and innocents" JTR has obviously confused the IDF with the Palestinian suicide bombers.

The IDF does NOT "routinely slaughter children and innocents." That is blatant propaganda and foisted on the public with factually incorrect "eyewitness" accounts and a disinformation campaign on the part of the PA.

Check out the bogus clip the PA keeps playing of that poor, grief-stricken girl wailing on that Gaza beach spliced with file footage of an IDF ship firing shells towards the shore.
Even the PA doesn't claim that the ordnance came by sea!!!

For the uninitiated (this must include you too, Ryan) the higher death toll among Palestinian minors is reflected almost exclusively among teenage boys aged 13 to 17.

There is a higher death toll among Palestinian youth because they are actual combatants--throwing stones, firing weapons, planting bombs, and being used to transport ordnance.

Look for yourself!!! How many Palestinian GIRLS have been killed? More Israeli girls have been killed than Palestinian girls. This alone PROVES the boys are contributing to their own deaths by engaging in risky behavior and actual combat.

I support Israel because, as a leftist, Israel embodies more Leftist ideals than even the USA does.

Israel provides health insurance for its population. Israel has virtually no homeless people. Israel integrated refugees from Ethiopia, Russia, and elsewhere----did not keep them in festering camps.
Israel does not execute prisoners.
Israel recognizes the rights to freedom of religion, freedom of the press, the right to dissent, freedom of speech, rights for gays, and the status of women is elevated above all Arab countries, including the PA.

You can get an abortion or birth control in Israel.
You can buy a chumash, a Christian Bible, or a copy of the Koran at any Israeli bookstore. Good luck trying to do that in the PA!!!

The more I investigate, the more I am impressed with the dignity and humanity shown by the Israeli people despite the constant wars waged against it by Arab/Muslim forces.

Claims they are mass-murdering children or civilians are garbage---they are so false that to make those claims clearly identies the person as a blatant anti-semite.

Ryan, if you think JTR is a site with which you find credence, then you are just looking for bad things said about Israel and the Jews with no regard whatsoever as to what the truth is.


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Devestating

by Enemy Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 6:39 AM

I had little respect for Becky to begin with, but this article smashes whatever small amount of respectibility there was left in here into oblivion.

Becky is not credible.
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hey anonymouse

by gehrig Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 6:44 AM

anonymouse: "Becky is not credible. "

Yeah, like that means a lot coming from an anonymouse.

Hey, anonymouse -- JTR is full of Nazi apologia. You okay with that? Apparently so.

@%<
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Aww poor little Scapegoated Jewboy.

by Lunchbox Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 9:52 AM

Whah whah whah. Can I have some cheese with that whine, Scapegoat? As much as you'd like to believe I have an agenda, as I have repeatedly stated, I frankly couldn't care less about that quagmire. I hope the Zionists and the Palestinians kill each other so the rest of the world doesn't have to hear it anymore.

And Becky, you are a hypocrite plain and simple. You harangue long, hard, and frequently in defense of Israel, but you don't shed a tear for a Palestinian baby. If you call yourself a leftist, you are the most pitiable hypocritical leftist I have ever heard of. You know nothing of the principles of egalitarianism, compassion, or humanity.

And you're insane to boot. You really need to get laid. I think that would help greatly.
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Hi, Cherokeenazi

by Scapegoated Jew Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 10:09 AM

Why don't you regale us of the anti-racist virtues of the JTR? We need some intellectual juice flowing here. Like denying that "Zionazi" is offensive.

Frankly, noone besides TW (maybe) believes your comical protests to be a neutral observer.

"And you're insane to boot. You really need to get laid. I think that would help greatly."

Maybe you can make a contest with TW who is more of a blatantly misogynist jerk.
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Aww did da feewins get hurt?

by Lunchbox Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 11:21 AM

Aww dat just toooo bad! Awww boo hoo hoo.

Becky obviously needs to get laid. It will relax her and loosen her up a bit. I guarantee it would help mellow her out. Perhaps she should smoke a joint afterwards (or during) as well. There is nothing misgynistic about sex. It's great therapy to relieve frustration like Becky exhibits.

Perhaps you can help her out with this problem Scapegoat?
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Why, ma feewins didn't get hurt

by Scapegoated Jew Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 11:35 AM

Perhaps you should be going out to force yourself on a woman or inside your hoe on your wife/maide instead of babbling in Indymedia? Spewing sub-human trash here won't do the trick for you.

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lololololololoo.......

by Scapegoated Jew Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 3:45 PM

Sheez, you'll always stay the same!
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Yep- what a pessa.....

by you know the rest Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 4:22 PM

Yep. He followed us down here because it so damn boring up in Indybay land. But he doesn't have the self respect to admit it.

So, TW:

Aside from blathering on about class wars while you sail to Tahiti with your family, what have YOU EVER DONE to help the progressive left?

Becky's credentials are well known, and well respected locally- that is precisely why she is such a threat to you and your type. And all your blithering hate speech won't make a bit of difference to anyone who's read Becky's work.

How fucking dare you call her insane- Mr. "showering in the arterial blood of the little Eichmans". Your thin veil of self righteous hypocrisy has already fallen off- you've already been exposed for what you are.

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eeYup

by TW Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 4:24 PM

Robust argumentation from a viewpoint of disgusted contempt, that's me.

Oh, but you're just copy-catting this, aren't you?

"Man, your cheap-ass canned tactics never vary! It shows how your whole political thing is like a hive-mentality voodoo cult or something."

Man, you losers have gotten so weak! Mental illness does erode intelligence, you know.
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rationalizing

by again? Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 4:52 PM

I am not interested in "engaging" you in discussion.
I will however, continue to torment you.
But only if you beg.
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Schtarker Yid

by Pricing Galil's Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 5:01 PM

Chaver
I've been thinking of trading in my Dragunov rifle for a new 7.62 mm G' alil -scoped (of course). What are they going for on the market there?
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Galil a.r.

by Scapegoated Jew Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 5:15 PM

Galil a.r....
tavor_assault_rifle.jpg, image/jpeg, 150x219

Couldn't find any info. How about a Glilon? Or the Tavor TAR- 21? (see image)
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Yup, there it is folks ↑↑↑↑↑

by TW Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 5:18 PM

This is zionism's true colors. You aren't going to brag about your Krav Maga skills or threaten to stalk us in your plaid shirt and watch cap, Yid?
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Schtarker Yid

by Way cool Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 5:23 PM

The Tavor looks way cool. Are they available on the open marketyet?
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Zionism's true colors?

by Scapegoated Jew Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 5:24 PM

No, this judgement represents your true colors as an overgeneralizing bigot that lunges quickly to latch on to the ost convenient excuse to rant at the ZZZiiiiiionists.
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Other theory

by perhaps? Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 5:35 PM

Maybe it indictates that our collective response to TW's infestation of this site shoud be to ignore him. Let him go back from whence he came. Some of us are here specifically to get away from creatures like him.
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HA!!

by TW Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 5:41 PM

"this judgement represents your true colors as an overgeneralizing bigot"

Not that simple, sah-reeeee. Israel, the settlers in particular, is one of the most militarized societies on earth. Even conscientious Israelis think so

http://www.newprofile.org/default.asp?language=en

Even Israelis are less nuts than you, see. For some strange reason America has the most psycho zionists of all.
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Must ....not....

by engage...him..... Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 5:49 PM

"For some strange reason America has the most psycho zionists of all."

Maybe that's because the only exposure you get to American zionists is through Indymedia. And its a fair bet that that all of us who spend time here are a bubble off plumb. Most of the Middle American Zionists I know are quite low key, content to write a check or two....not much more.
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There's a civilian version out

by Scapegoated Jew Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 5:49 PM

It's my understanding that it's either still on the sketching boards or may soon be released to the open market, depending on when the content in the following webpage was written. The specification for the open market civilian version reads:

"0.45 (or 0.30) caliber Tavor Karabin with short barrel being planned -- 10" to be exported to world markets"

http://bb684e6875a32237f8683d21898bd281.he.infoax.biz/ (near bottom) (Text above notes specification for the AR version)
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Not

by quite full throttle Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 6:09 PM

He hasn't threatened to kill anyone and bath in their blood, yet.

And the sad thing about it is that he's probably a linoleum salesperson in Des Moines, or something similiar.

Its just a game to him.
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About Israel as a militarized society

by Scapegoated Jew Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 6:09 PM

"...is one of the most militarized societies on earth"

This is factually bunk. Refer back to my exchanges with the anonymous Santa Cruz guy in one of those threads where both you and Jack Ass were present.
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Gun talk? OY!

by Becky Johnson Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 7:36 PM
Santa Cruz, CA.

Now I'm as down with the 2nd amendment as any other good American, but I HATE gun talk!! I don't know why. It brings to mind death and killing. Or past boyfriends....but I digress.

Let me remind my co-writers and defenders of Israel when she is unfairly attacked---that this site is ALL ABOUT ME!!

So get back on topic.
What else do you have to say about me?

P.S. the three rules in my house are no gum, no guns, and put the toilet lid down. Please abide by these three rules (if you're able) on this thread that is about ME ME ME!!
thank-you.
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hey becky

by charismatic megafauna Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 10:06 PM

Is that really you? No gum???

Either way, you'll end up reading this, so here's what I think:

1) You're a Green, right? Why don't you get more involved, we really need more intelligent, rational activists. Larry Cafiero (who is running for Insurance Commissioner) is a very active Santa Cruz Green, at least active within the state party, I recommend that you talk to him about it....he's a great guy.

2) Advocates for Israel (www.advocatesforisrael.org) is a great group that is working to overturn the green party resloustion for divestment from Israel. We could use your help.
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Misandry!

by Lunchbox Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 1:58 AM

I am so disgusted by the overt misandry of this forum by the pro-zionist lot.

Becky "the hypocrite" Johnson wrote: ""P.S. the three rules in my house are no gum, no guns, and put the toilet lid down. Please abide by these three rules (if you're able) on this thread that is about ME ME ME!!"

Why do people have to put the toilet seat down in your house, Becky? Is this to symbolize your overt hatred for men? We men need the toilet seat up, and you need it down. If we can make the effort to respectfully put it up so that we don't piss all over it, why can't you make the effort to put it down yourself when you have to squat?

No wonder you are so frustrated, Becky. When is the last time you got some good lovin' from a big strong man? Your lesbian sex sessions with Tia won't get the job done the same way. I think this must be why you are so frustrated. Of the scores of women I have banged, I don't recall any of them wanting to discuss the Israel-Palestine conflict after we finished having hot sex.

Scapegoated Jew wrote: "Perhaps you should be going out to force yourself on a woman or inside your hoe on your wife/maide instead of babbling in Indymedia?"

Again, the overt misandry is disgusting. I have never forced myself on a woman ever. If anything they have forced themselves on me.

That remark is very telling for your hatred of men, Scapegoated Jew. I suspect you are not a male, but more likely a lesbian female. Am I correct?

Your hatred for men is just that obvious. I am empathetic towards your frustration, but you too need to get laid, sweety.

BTW, my wife and I had some really great sex just last night. She was very satisfied and glowing radiantly after I got done with her. She was smiling from ear to ear, and feeling quite sexy afterwards. She did not want to discuss Israel or anything related to politics either. She never discusses politcs because I keep her satisfied and unfrustrated.
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Lunchbox joins the club

by Tia Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 4:00 AM

The general response of men on Indymedia, when faced with strong women they can't dominate is overt sexism.

Lunchbox has joined the club, following in the footsteps of such intellectual luminaries as "suck my nuts dry" TW

I suspect the men on Indymedia represent a weaker segment of male society, in general- men so impotent in their daily lives that they become keyboard warriors. Perhaps it gives them the illusion of control, to "act virtually" what they are incapable of acting out in person.

Yet Gehrig, Yid and SJ don't display these infantile tendencies....so perhaps its just a characteristic of anti-ZIonists (along with paranoia, an irrational fear of amazon.com and a predilection for conspiracy theories)

But I digress....after all this thread is about BECKY!
I must say, personally, that Gehrig and Becky's tenacity in insuring the truth comes out on Indymedia has been an inspiration to me.

Bravo, Chaverim. Chazak, Chazak v'nit chazak!
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American zionist ARE TOO outstandingly nuts

by TW Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 5:22 AM

many MANY Israelis have commented on this. I remember a prominent Israeli entertainer ending her career and leaving Israel a few years back, saying as she did so that she loved Israel but that "American-born trash" were ruining it. I even know a few US Jews who acknowledge that the worst mania is over here, and who have the decency to be mortified by it (more decency than is shown by the rabid zionoids around here). Meir Kahane and Baruch Goldstein personify a phenomenon much bigger than themselves

Here's a good example of an Israeli acknowledging the truth
(from http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040216/hirst ):
"...in the view of the late Israel Shahak, [ignorance of Jewish extremism in Israel] reflects particularly badly on an American Jewry which, with its ingrained, institutionalized aversion to finding fault with Israel, turns a blind eye to what Israelis like himself viewed with disgust and alarm, and unceasingly said so.

American Jews, especially Orthodox ones, are generous financiers of the shock troops of fundamentalism, the religious settlers; indeed a good 10 percent of these, and among the most extreme, violent and sometimes patently deranged [i.e. Kahane's Kach maniacs], are actually immigrants from America. They are, says Shahak, one of the "absolutely worst phenomena" in Israeli society, and "it is not by chance that they have their roots in the American-Jewish community." It was from his headquarters in New York that the Lubavitcher Rebbe, the late Menachem Schneerson, seer of possibly the most rabid of Hasidic sects, the Chabad, gave guidance to his many followers in both Israel and the United States."

So Yidsky, you're a Lubavitcher, right?
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To Lunchbox

by Tia Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 5:39 AM

Why do you hate men, Tia?
by Lunchbox Thursday, Jun. 29, 2006 at 8:04 AM

LB: Are you a lesbian?

Tia: My sexual orientation is of no relevance to this discussion. But as long as we are discussing sexual orientation, I'd like to interupt these words for a ZIonist infomercial:

Israel is the only country in the Middle East that
guarantees equality and full civil rights for its LGBT
population, including adoption rights and partner
benefits. Israel’s LGBT policies are among the most
progressive in the world

LB: I am not trying to be sexist, I just suspect that to be the case because in my experience lesbians see strong, masculine men as a threat. That's not sexist, it's just fact.

Tia: Strong confident people are not threatened by other strong confident people. Thats a fact. Sexual orientation is irrelevant. And I see nothing to indicate that you are a strong, masculine man.

LB: There is nothing sexist about enjoying sex!
Or keeping a woman satisfied and unfrustrated.

Tia: Why don't you put the wife on line, and we'll ask her about this.....I figure if you are posting at 4 am, instead of cuddling with the warm body of whatever gender thats lying in your bed- you've got problems.. but not as many as your wife has.

LB: I am of the mind that any woman that spends as much time raling on political issues and Israel as you and Becky Johnson are obviously frustrated and likely unfulfilled sexually.

Tia: So you are of the mind that women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen at all times? You need to ask yourself why you are so intimidated by women with strong opinions. I think it indicates lack of self confidence on your part.

LB: I postulate this to be because you're lesbians, and lesbians can't satisfy other women the same way men can.

Tia: A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle.

LB: See, I suspect it's an over-compensating effect, where the woman harangues relentlessly to over-compensate intellectually for the lack of emotional nurturing she should be receiving from a male companion.

Tia: You and TW should go out and have a beer together. You can talk about what macho men you are. You can talk about how satisfied your wives are. Yep, what a life- keep your mouth shut, your legs apart, and keep dishing out those burgers. Did you also pair up with a women from a traditionally subservient culture, so you wouldn't need to face any challenges? Yep, Becky and I are just harridans, bitches, crones..but only to weak and ineffectual little men.

LB: It's just a theory. No need to bash men.

Tia: And I'm not. Just the ones that need it.
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And Tink

by Tia Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 6:03 AM

Most of the Lubuvitch in America are scholarly, pious, apolitical types.
A few of them showed up at a local rally- I tried to get them to march with us- they refused, and instead went through the line of my menfolk, asking them instead to daven and lay tefillan.
It was amusing.
We each help in our own way, I suppose.
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Hey lunchbox, I got a different theory

by TW Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 6:33 AM

Namely that mysandry among women is endemic to Jewish culture. Most of the Jewish couples I've known have exhibited an odd pattern: the women are harridans who browbeat the men constantly, usually over nothing (purely an assertion of dominance); the men are Woody Allens who just meekly lay down and submit to this. The programming for this must begin in childhood at the hands of their own mothers. I suspect this is why Jewish men are so attracted to "shiksas": they want to have a nice fling with a woman who's actually fun and forgiving before they settle into the chains they know are waiting for them.

It's one of the features of Jewish culture that is most different from gentile culture. Jewish women, socialized to expect men to be subservient, tend to be peevish if not openly hostile to men with some steel in their backs. If you think about it, this goes a long way toward explaining the "feminism" of the 1960s (Gloria Steinem, Betty Friedan...). It was led by Jewish women who were just pitching their cultural mysandry to gentiles, and it appealed most to gentile women who were already latently mysandrous (had bad relationships with their fathers, etc.)
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SchtarkerYid

by shopping trip Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 6:34 AM

Cool. I wil have to take a shopping trip soon. Maybe one of those new Barak pistols, a Tavor and then lay teffilin and daven at kotel.
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You could be right, TW.

by Lunchbox Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 7:06 AM

It could be they're not lesbians at all, but just frustrated, ill-tempered male-bashing old Jewish bags. I don't know any personally, but I do know of the stereotype to which you speak. And from the frustration level of these Zionist strumpets, I'd guess they are lending credence to the caricature of a Jewish hag.

Perhaps Becky Johnson and Tia would care to shed some light on this for us? Are you ladies lesbians, or are you just the typical male-bashing Jewish crones?
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Jerkoff (lunchbox) time

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 7:06 AM

Hatred for men, me? This balderdash is off topic, chump. You're in the wrong website, too. Talk sexual issues elsewhere.

Have fun playing footsie with TW, your new friend in Zion & Jew hating.

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You didn't answer the question SJ?

by Lunchbox Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 7:08 AM

Are you really a lesbian? Or are you just a subservient Jewish eunuch? Did the rabbi slip and cut off your nuts instead of your foreskin?
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To the weak impotent Ryan

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 7:23 AM

You should really discuss the late Jew hating I. Shahak with TW. Most of us don't give a crap what this hater said, but you very well might.

I'm telling you calmly and merrily that your amusing insistence and fondness of getting into sexual harassment is indicative of just how much you're a creature of gutters. But more power to you -- you're such a weak person that you have little choice but to do this and it's better for than to wallow in self pitty at home and be abused by your wife at whim.
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A question

by For Lunchbox Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 7:33 AM

So ...what are you wearing right now, Ryan?
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Tia, it was 6am here.

by Lunchbox Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 7:33 AM

"Tia: At 4:58 you were writing to me and Becky, though. Something is clearly missing in your relationship- a deep void only Becky and I can fill."

Tia, my first post today was at 6:58am. I live in Arkansas.
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Important

by questions remain Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 7:46 AM

Tia, my first post today was at 6:58am. I live in Arkansas

Duh. Ok. Point taken. However, clearly, your first thought upon waking up was not the moist semi nude woman by your side, but rather the fully clothed ones on the West Coast. I'd love to tell you how flatterered I am, but...I'm not.

The question remains: Why are anti- Zionists so obsessed with my sex life?

Ryan: This isn't Jewish dial-a-date. I am wearing slacks and dress shirt ... business casual.

I was teasing, Ryan..... Hey, why are you dressed as an office clerk if you are a musician and tattoo artist? And why don't anti- Zionists have a sense of humor?
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missed something

by here Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 7:52 AM

And boys, Becky isn't Jewish.

There goes that theory.

Do you have an unusual insights into the descendants of Finnish communists, TW, that you'd care to grace us with?
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Why don't anti- Zionists have a sense of humor

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 7:55 AM

My last post sheds rather bright light on this. Genetic fate has been cruel to rabid anti-Zionists like Ryan. They were born with either mental or/and physical blemishes. As societies the world over can no longer practice infanticide, we musty learn to tolerate their presence in our midst and be somewhat graceful.
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Sigh...again

by Tia Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 8:30 AM

Rabbi means teacher...its also used to mean spiritual guide....This is California, remember? Its not some cow town in the tall grasses. There are many paths to spirituality, not all of them conventional.

Becky is not Jewish. How do I know?
Because she said so.
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Semitic and other societies were patriarchal in antiquity

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 9:04 AM

In the old times, the men of those societies were responsible for forming a faily unit and making offspring.

"That sounds misogynistic."
"However the fact that Jewish traditions marginalize and discriminate against women in the manner you have detailed, SJ, is quite appalling. It harkens me to thoughts of how muslims subjugate their women."

There comes your ADD into the fray again, or at least your problems with reading comprehension. The text I wrote doesn't imply marginalization and discrimination against woman anywhere.

Still waiting for you to answer my question in the last post. You're doing poorly even with your ad hoc pet subject.
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SJ, that is very misogynistic

by Lunchbox Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 9:23 AM

"The text I wrote doesn't imply marginalization and discrimination against woman anywhere."

Yes it does. You said that Jews place relegate the commandment to "be fruitful and multiply" to men and not to women. This means that men must comply without regard the desires of the females. Sounds like cavemen and concubines to me.

What if the women don't want to procreate with you? Does God demand that you force yourselves on them? I mean, for instance if Tia -- who is Jewish and also lesbian -- does not want to procreate with a Jewish man, is it his divine right to take her by force or not? And if not, then isn't he shamed for not keeping God's commandment?

And Becky, at what age did you first realize you were lesbian?
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I won't engage your spite for Tia

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 9:46 AM

So I'll confine myself to commenting on your issues with mysoginy in Judaism which are quite funny given that you're so mysogynistic and proved you espouse social Darwinism (remember back then when those comments were promptly hidden?).

Not "the Jews" "relegate the commandment to "be fruitful and multiply" to men" rather than women. The Torah (Pentateuch) did it.

To my understanding, females in antiquity realized early on in pre-adolescence that they must accept a man's desire to have offspring with whomever they marry. It was a societal norm. The female probably had some leeway in postponing the act, depending on the male's patience. But this in no way was confined to the Israelite or Jewish society. Maybe it extended even to Native American societies who'd maintain these patriarchal norms up until the subjugation to whitey.
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hey tee dubya

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 9:55 AM

Yo poow wittaw viggaaatum, none of us touched your comment in question as it is too foolish to even address, at least until now. "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself” (Proverbs 26:4).

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We've waited too long for a crappy answer

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 10:09 AM

You've got to learn to show more courtesy, notwithstanding your notorious ways of treating female contributors to this forum and your congenital mental illnesses. I presented a query for you to enlighten us as to why you reckon that lesbianism would go a long way towards explaining all the anti-social frustrations you ascribe to BJ (groundless as your allegation is).
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I have put it to rest.

by Lunchbox Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 11:09 AM

I'm thoroughly convinced that she's a flagrant homosexual and that is the cause of all her frustrations and uncontrollable urges to rant about Israel. Scroll up several posts; I rested my case quite a while back.

Further, I am convinced that you are also a lesbian. You have never addressed this assertion, and therefore I can only conclude you must be gay.
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You've never denied being a Cherokee supremacist

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 11:38 AM

and Jew hater. So I can only conclude you're a crypto-Nazi racist. Your antisemitism seems to be a product of the Christian education, including Bible classes, that you received during childhood.

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so much to say...

by charismatic megafauna Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 12:28 PM

Grr, when I get to sleep in, all of this happens.

First...

Ryan: I had an appointment at the bank today to get a loan. Fortunately for me the banker wasn't Jewish, so it looks like I may get it.

WTF????!!!!!!!!!!

As to all of this bragging, it is really making me think that you've never touched a woman in your life, or maybe had a few bad encounters. I sense a likely misunderstanding of female anatomy, I have a hunch this "can't walk the next day" comes from some woman who wanted to make you feel better and exaggerated. But, this isn't a discussion for Indymedia...it just makes me laugh.

As to this women not being able to fulfill other women...just....fuck you. I'm offended, and I'm straight! Don't you understand that men won't do anything for these women, and that...wow, it's not even worth going into. Your ignorance and misogyny will reign, no matter what I say.
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"the two of you"? Failing reading comprehension

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 12:40 PM

I take this to mean you referred to our Cherokee Naziboy Ryan and TW. Correct, Tia?
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"My rabbi"

by Tia Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 12:41 PM

T'uh: "Rabbi means teacher...its also used to mean spiritual guide...."

T' dubyu: But why would a NON-JEW use the word this way?

T'uh: You could ask her, ya know. Maybe if you asked respectfully, she might even answer you. I had a friend who was studying towards conversion. He referred to one of our local rabbis as "his rabbi" . Its not unheard of. Didn't Hilary Clinton use the same phrase while referring to Michael Lerner?
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Hey SJ

by Lunchbox Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 1:13 PM

Why did your comment accusing me of slander get hidden? Could it be because it's idiotic for someone whol calls himself "Scapegoated Jew" to be delivering a lesson on ethical debate?
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Not you, SJ

by Tia Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 1:18 PM

I take this to mean you referred to our Cherokee Naziboy Ryan and TW. Correct, Tia?

Of course.
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tia,

by charismatic megafauna Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 1:18 PM

If you want a diversion, check your email.

Normally I avoid posting such things, but this thread is absolutely ridiculous, at least this isn't ignorant and offensive.
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Hey...

by Lunchbox Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 1:24 PM

You all should be thanking me. At least I got your minds off Israel for a few minutes at least.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled Zionist sit in, already in progress.
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Het lunch boy

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 1:48 PM

Hopefully the banker you met with today won't approve your loan. Maybe only a rough forceful rape by another man, possibly a whitey, will straighten your perversions out.
You're enjoying your copy of the last Der Stuermer issue on your desk?


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Oh now you're just being cruel, Scapegoat.

by Lunchbox Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 2:10 PM

That's just mean, Scapegoat. I need that money.

Speaking of money, I heard a funny joke the other day Scapegoat. Would you like to hear it?

Okay, here it goes.

Do you know how copper wire was invented, Scapegoat?

Two Jews found a penny on the ground at the same time.


Heh heh heh heh heh!
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Wrong again

by TW Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 2:44 PM

"Maybe it extended even to Native American societies who'd maintain these patriarchal norms up until the subjugation to whitey."

Nah, patriarchy would be a Jewish invention. You're the ones who introduced patriarchal monotheism into the world, remember?

That Native Americans were not patriarchal is a richly documented fact, starting with Columbus (who noted the Arawak divorce practice of women simply placing a man's possessions outside HER hut) to the founding father's observations of the Iroquois (women had supreme authority over intra-tribal affairs). Indian women also knew of effective abortion methods and used them at will, as was their prerogative. Indian culture respected personal prerogatives overall much more profoundly than Western slave cultures. They were really beautiful and sane people, the sort that are being erased from the world by the Western mass psychosis -- mustn't let the slaves glimpse another possibility, you see.

"...the JTR's arguments about her had been refuted and rebuffed..."

Man, such congenital liars! None of you ever did any such thing. You evaded or just blithely denied (a la the river in Egypt) all the most damaging points.

"Becky has 3 children"

Ever heard of 'baster babies?'

"Didn't Hilary Clinton use ["my Rabbi"] while referring to Michael Lerner?"

Eh, big deal. She's probably a closet Jew. She's diesel-dyke enough, that's for sure.

"I'm thoroughly convinced that [Becky's] a flagrant homosexual"

No shit, man. Ever seen a picture of her? The only way she'd ever get any man-meat in her is by tying him down and pouring a whole bottle of Viagra down his throat.

Hey Lunchbox: keep it up, man! Yer crackin me up over here!
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Sometimes TW comes in handy with historical references

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 3:05 PM

But he has barely a clue about Jewish and Israelite history as his seething antisemitism prevents him from pouring over this topic.

- Maybe it extended even to Native American societies who'd maintain these patriarchal norms up until the subjugation to whitey.

Truth Warper:
"Nah, patriarchy would be a Jewish invention. You're the ones who introduced patriarchal monotheism into the world, remember? "

We already knew your a racist, but this is the 2nd time I'll prove you to be an an a-historical ignoramus (the first was on Indybay as I advised you that communism had been customary amoong Second Temple era Jews as recorded in the Dead Sea scrolls.).
Some 150 years prior to Moses' time, the Egyptian Paraoh Akhenaton devised a new, patriarchal monotheistic religion, so the Jews couldnt have invented it.

That Native Americans were not patriarchal is a richly documented fact, starting with Columbus (who noted the Arawak divorce practice of women simply placing a man's possessions outside HER hut) to the founding father's observations of the Iroquois (women had supreme authority over intra-tribal affairs). Indian women also knew of effective abortion methods and used them at will, as was their prerogative. Indian culture respected personal prerogatives overall much more profoundly than Western slave cultures. They were really beautiful and sane people, the sort that are being erased from the world by the Western mass psychosis -- mustn't let the slaves glimpse another possibility, you see. "

Eeeyup, I concede this point to you, fair and square. Alas, you and possibly your parents have been occupying some of their ancestral land, property and enjoying the fruits of ther labor for dozens of years at least. You have the nerve lecturing or taunting and tormenting Zionists for what they've done in the Land of Israel given how you're a member of an usurping exploitative sector that dwells on land that was stolen from the Natives after driving them to the brink of extinction.


-...the JTR's arguments about her had been refuted and rebuffed...

Truth Warper:
"Man, such congenital liars! ngah ngah cluck cluck"

Spoken by the gegative cred crew member.


Tia:
"Didn't Hilary Clinton use ["my Rabbi"] while referring to Michael Lerner?"

Truth Warper:
"Eh, big deal. She's probably a closet Jew. She's diesel-dyke enough, that's for sure. "

Pretty much what I expected the Nazoid TW to fart.


Naziboy Ryan:
"I'm thoroughly convinced that [Becky's] a flagrant homosexual"

Truth Warper:
"No shit, man. Ever seen a picture of her?

Shit, the neighborhood is gone. One might think he would be content with the level of action happening at Indybay now that it's post a purging of Zionists and he has plenty of chummy Jew hating Eichmans to keep him company there.
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Why are the editors tolerating this?

by Tia Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 3:06 PM

Firstly : I looked it up. The correct speliing is misogyny. Not mysogyny. Not mesogyny. Not any other combination of the same letters
As long as we are all here, we might as well learn something.

Secondly: Do we all agree that whatever two consenting adults do in the privacy of their kitchen floor is perfectly acceptable? And if you don't , do you understand why thats a problem to people who consider themselves progressive?

Thirdly: Can we please, please please talk about Nessie's sex life now?
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heh

by charismatic megafauna Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 3:29 PM

Firstly : I looked it up. The correct speliing is misogyny. Not mysogyny. Not mesogyny. Not any other combination of the same letters
As long as we are all here, we might as well learn something.

Hey, I got it right!

Secondly: Do we all agree that whatever two consenting adults do in the privacy of their kitchen floor is perfectly acceptable? And if you don't , do you understand why thats a problem to people who consider themselves progressive?

Now you're out-progressiving me. I always firmly stated "the government has no business in the bedroom." Damn. My turn to out-progressive you...why say "two?"

Thirdly: Can we please, please please talk about Nessie's sex life now?

I'd rather keep my dinner down.
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Dunno why the editors permit this "man" to harranguing

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 3:30 PM

you two. Frankly, there are only two ways Ryan should be dealt with: either total withdrawal from debate or personally attacking him.

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its ok, SJ

by Tia Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 3:42 PM

I can't tell you the last time I've laughed so much. It s hard to be offended when its so bloody ridiculous.
I suspect thats why the editors are keeping it up- its so damn funny, even if you don't know the personalities of those involved.

Megafauna- I'll grant you that. Why stop at two?
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Another historical note

by TW Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 4:44 PM

Ah yes, Critical Thinker, the tireless barking nut-case

"Some 150 years prior to Moses' time, the Egyptian Paraoh Akhenaton devised a new, patriarchal monotheistic religion, so the Jews couldnt have invented it."

The "two" religions are probably one and the same.

I have it on good authority that there is not a pebble of conclusive archeological evidence of the existence of the "ancient kingdom of Israel," which is striking in light of the MOUNTAINOUS archeological remains of virtually every other ancient culture, including ones of which there is no existing historical record, like the Persepolitans.

Jewish scripture is the sole source of evidence of ancient Israel's existence.

This supports a sneaking suspicion I have that the REAL story of Jewish origins goes back to ancient Egypt, that you're actually descended from the Egyptian ruling class, that you were chased the fuck out by a mass uprising, and that the whole story of you being slaves there and of Moses leading you to freedom through the Red Sea is just a wild tale you cooked up to cover your tracks. God knows you twist everything else upside down, so why not this?

What you're now telling me about Akhenaten fits into this perfectly, indeed buttresses it. Thank you

"Alas, you ... have been occupying some of their ancestral land"

Alas indeed. I grew up roaming the forests of the land of the Iroquois, whose ghosts saw in me a person who could truly know them, and who then took me by the hand, led me through the dreamworld into a place beyond time: the land they still inhabit, so utterly beautiful and potently sacred the love of it breaks one's heart, knowing that this is what greed has discarded. They know me not as an invader, but as a true brother of their hearts. Come one fine day, I will join them there.
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Why is Tia frustrated?

by not surprisingly, by Tia Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 5:24 PM

"There must be a reason you're so frustrated!"

Sure is.

It seems so logical to me that Israel deserves the support of every single progressive minded person in this country.
Israel's record of democracy, of civil rights, of individual human rights- all while under seige, are among the best in the world. Look at our own country- one attack, and all the liberties we've taken for granted are gradually eroded away. Israel, while imperfect, has maintained a vigorous democracy while pretty much being in a state of war for years.

I am so frustrated that I can't make you all see this! I keep thinking I just need to find the right words, the right facts, the right information...and then the light bulb over your heads will turn on and you'll go "Yeah. I understand"

Thats why I'm so frustrated. Was that so hard, Ryan?
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Oh man, isn't this line of bull Becky's gig?

by TW Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 5:37 PM

Tia: "Israel's record of democracy, of civil rights ... yada yada ... are among the best in the world."

Yah, if you willfully ignore what its policies are doing to people who aren't TECHNICALLY "in Israel." Also if you ignore that European fascist Jews (that's right) INVADED AND STOLE every bit of that land. Other than these piffling little things, oh yah Israel's just groovy as gravy
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I'll keep proving you an ahistorical ignoramous & cretin ad infinitum!

by Scapegoated Jew Friday, Jun. 30, 2006 at 5:39 PM

"Ah yes, Critical Thinker, the tireless barking nut-case "

To me this ad hominem means I'm a sane debater conversing with a madman who typically inverts reality.


- Some 150 years prior to Moses' time, the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaton devised a new, patriarchal monotheistic religion, so the Jews couldn't have invented it.

Truth Warper the buffoon:
"The "two" religions are probably one and the same. "

I bet you know exactly what I'm talking about and agree to boot. (As if you're unaware that that Egyptian form of monotheism elevated the sun god to the status of the only deity.)
You're one hell of a hilarious joke, you know?

Truth Warper the buffoon:
"I have it on good authority that there is not a pebble of conclusive archeological evidence of the existence of the "ancient kingdom of Israel," which is striking in light of the MOUNTAINOUS archeological remains of virtually every other ancient culture, "

Obviously you hate anything related to Israelite history to even research seriously and get past the inadequate arguments made by the revisionist historians that deny the attribution of the excavated Gezer, Hazor and Meggido city gates to King Solomon's period, for instance; Or the fact that both the Mesha Stone and the Tel-Dan Stone erected in the 9th century BC mention the term "House of David" and by extension confirm King David's historicity as the one that had established the royal Judahite dynasty. If we fast forward to King Ahab's days, we note a few Israelite and Judahite kings mentioned from that point on (mid 9th century) in contemporary Assyrian inscriptions. But of course you'll deny all of this lest it demolishes your buffoonish ahistorical Jew hating convictions.

Truth Warper the buffoon:
"Jewish scripture is the sole source of evidence of ancient Israel's existence. "

Google the Merneptah Stele which explicitly mentions Israel as far back as the 13th century BC.

Truth Warper the buffoon:
"This supports a sneaking suspicion I have that the REAL story of Jewish origins goes back to ancient Egypt,"

I'll accept this partially if you modify that to Israelite origins, because some tribes such as Asher and Naphtali were actually local Canaanite tribes (as shown by the archaeological record) that joined into the Israelite covenant with the other Israelites that emerged from Egypt when the latter entered Canaan.

Truth Warper the buffoon:
"... that you're actually descended from the Egyptian ruling class,"

This was true only for a very small portion of the tribe of Levi -- a small minority among the exodus generation. For instance, I believe the ancient Greek tradition relating that Moses was an Egyptian priest is reliable. Some other Egyptian priests may also have joined him in his mission to get many disenchanted Hebrews out of that land and create a healthier religion than the one they had come to loath.

Truth Warper the buffoon:
"and that the whole story of you being slaves there and of Moses leading you to freedom through the Red Sea is just a wild tale you cooked up to cover your tracks."

Firstly, I remember watching either on the History Channel or the Discovery Channel how the ancient Egyptian storage city Per-Ra'amses was excavated and that Egyptian records relate that Hebrew or Semitic laborers had been pressed into building it. Secondly, I've read compelling comprehensive and nuanced evidence in Pnina Galpaz-Feller's book which I alluded to on Indybay on the first thread you appeared on that the so-called Red Sea (the actual translation of the biblical term "Yam Suf" is the Sea of Reeds) was one of the Egyptian lakes near the Delta rather than the pool of water we know as the Red Sea. So there's at least one kernel of truth in both of these points to your chagrin..

Truth Warper the buffoon:
" God knows ngah ngah"

Didn't know you invoke God.


Truth Warper the buffoon:
"What you're now telling me about Akhenaten fits into this perfectly, indeed buttresses it. Thank you "

See above. You're debunked.


- Alas, you ... have been occupying some of their [Native American] ancestral land"

Truth Warper the buffoon:
"Alas indeed. I grew up roaming the forests of the land of the Iroquois, whose ghosts saw in me a person who could truly know them, and who then took me by the hand, led me through the dreamworld into a place beyond time: the land they still inhabit, so utterly beautiful and potently sacred the love of it breaks one's heart, knowing that this is what greed has discarded. They know me not as an invader, but as a true brother of their hearts. Come one fine day, I will join them there. "

You sound like the Profit Ezekiel in his Vision of the Dry Bones. You know how to phrase prose beautifully, but unfortunataly it's bedeviled by a huge dose of wishful thinking, self deceit and conceit spewed by a hypocritical White supremacist who knows he doesn't belong in that land and ought to immigrate to Scotland. Not to mention the insult to the memory of all those Natives who were massacred and the living who languish in dire poverty and diseases in Reservations as we type.
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TW's "good" authority is neither good nor an authority

by Becky Johnson Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 5:18 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

TRUTH WARPER WRITES: "I have it on good authority that there is not a pebble of conclusive archeological evidence of the existence of the "ancient kingdom of Israel," which is striking in light of the MOUNTAINOUS archeological remains of virtually every other ancient culture, including ones of which there is no existing historical record, like the Persepolitans."

BECKY: NO evidence??? Only if you are deaf, dumb, blind, and stupid could you say that. Only if you discount ALL of the archeological studies in the area of ancient Israel.

Gaze your eyes on the above evidence that you claim doesn't exist, then tell us again that there is not "a pebble of evidence."
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Xray eyes

by Scapegoated Jew Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 7:11 AM

http://la.indymedia.org/news/hidden.php?id=166360#166690
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More zionists trying chutzpah it over on the goy chumps, as usual

by TW Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 11:30 AM

Only in the mind of a zio-zealot like Becky could an obscure reference on an ancient block of rock constitute "proof" of ancient Israel's existence. Zionists insist that Moabite, the language of the stele, is archaic Hebrew. This is an interesting claim, since the alphabets look nothing alike:

the Mesha Stele:
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/ofm/sbf/escurs/Giord/04bGiordEn.html

The El Kerak Inscription:
http://www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/westsem/elkerak.html

It's also interesting because the Moabites were Canaanites supposedly engaged in a war with Israel. Meanwhile CT among others has rabidly denied that the Canaanites and Israelites were of the same stock. But if a Canaanite culture spoke archaic Hebrew, wouldn't this mean the Israelites were actually Canaanites? This damages the barking didactic zionist version of history all by itself.

Here's what WOULD constitute proof: extensive ruins within the borders of present-day Israel, from which voluminous amounts of unambiguous hebraic text have been recovered. This would make ancient Israel's existence as irrefutable as that of Sumeria, Carthage, Egypt, Phoenicia, etc. But noOOOoooo, all the zionists can hold up as "proof" is one debatable second-hand reference from an obscure rock in Western Jordan. It's such typical facile crap.

Oh by the way Becky, you sure seem confident of your extensive knowledge of ancient Israel, a thing a "non-Jewish Finn" would have little reason to study in such detail. Why did you refer to "my Rabbi" in that passage the JTR quoted?

Also I never got answers for this stuff:

"Nor did they ever refute my contention that leftists who believe in Leftist principles of social responsibility, and equal treatment SHOULD support Israel..."

Leftists going back AT LEAST to Henry Thoreau have always objected to IMPERIALIST USURPATION, ya know? I've pointed out many times that Israel is primarily a STRATEGIC MOVE by the Western empires to establish a beachhead in the Middle East. At first this was to literally drive a stake into pan-Arab nationalism, the greatest 20th-century anti-colonial movement of the region. Israel's role has changed somewhat, but it's no less instrumental to Western global domination today. That's why they get to have nukes. If it weren't for Israel's usefulness here, Britain NEVER would have honored the Balfour deal. The UN security council nations all had similar ulterior motives for allowing Israel's creation.

In other words the invasion and colonization of Palestine by European Jews is a flagrant imperial outrage. That's the Palestinians' land, and you criminals have stolen it from them at gunpoint. Spare me your biblical bigot blather.

Why do you persist in willfully ignoring this CLASSIC LEFTIST anti-imperialist objection to Israel's role in Middle East geopolitics?
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Motives past or present

by are irrelevant Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 11:38 AM

Whatever the motives were or are, Israel is a fact on the ground- it is a state for those dispossesed by prejudice and racism around the world and thus deserves support.
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SchtarkerYid

by TW, still lost and nuts Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 12:25 PM

What an idiot! Of course people speak languages that are related! Any Hebrew speaker can read the Moabite Stela even though the Moabites weren't Hebrews because the languages are only a couple of letters different . Even when the Moabites were supposedly engaged in a war with Israel they could speak to each other Aramaic and Assyrian are that far a stretch either. Canaanites spoke Western Semitic languages closely related to a rchaic Hebrew, which doesn't mean the Israelites were actually Canaanites.
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Great, ANOTHER talking point

by TW Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 12:30 PM

"Whatever the motives were or are, Israel is a fact on the ground..."

See, zionists and their strategic partners are the only people on earth who don't puke when they see this revolting line. It's just another underhanded way you try to cheat Palestinians, this time out of the legitimacy of their grievance. There is a thing called JUSTICE that can be deferred but not denied. Even MLK said so:

“The arc of history is long, but it bends towards justice.”

Damn straight.

Now you're going to start in on the colonization of North America, right? Go ahead. I'm all for people of European descent packing it the fuck back to Europe where they belong -- "Americans," "Afrikaaners," whatever. Let's roll back colonialism everywhere.

Once again, it's called JUSTICE
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SchtarkerYid

by Except that over half the Jews in Israel Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 12:41 PM

Except that over half the Jews in Israel are of North African or Middle Eastern origins. TW, your prejudice obscures your comments.
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More chutzpah, yup

by TW Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 12:57 PM

"I actually insisted that some of the Israelite tribes originated from Canaanite stock. I'll add that the Israelites gradually absorbed most Canaanites residing south and west to Phoenicia into themselves."

Ah, so now you're admitting that the Arabs are in fact the descendants of the Hebrews, since the Canaanites were their ancestors and also the Israelites. Interesting! So CT, just how pasty white is your skin. Go look in the mirror. Do you look like a Semite? Or more like a German or a Slavonic? Look out your window there in Hebron and check out the guys with beanies clubbing Arab girls to death. What do they look like? "Semites" or Europeans? So how do you figure you're more related to the ancient Israelites than Arabs? Because you're full of greased-rat bullshit? Yeah, I know

"Have you asked Madonna the same question?"

Nope, and I didn't ask you either. Fuck off

"Actually Zionism beat them at it"

Zionism beat them at what? Being arrogant colonizing assholes? There you go twisting things inside out again. I don't think you can help it. It was already hard-wired into your brain the day your momma pushed you out of her cunt.
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SchtarkerYid

by TW, you are an idiot Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 1:04 PM

Arabs are not descended from the Western Semitic Caananites. Arabs are Southern Semites and likely of Joktanite rather than Ishmaelite origin anyway.
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and MORE chutzpah!

by TW Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 1:20 PM

"Don't talk like that. When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking Anti-Semitism."

MLK isn't positively known to have said this. It supposedly happened at a dinner party in front of a handful of witnesses and was related anecdotally (or apocryphally) later on. The zionist bullshit machine sure likes to ride it to death, though, just like the Mesha Stele. By the way, you're calling that thing "quality proof"?!!? Man you ARE nuts!

"So when are you planning to leave for Scotland?"

The world asked you first
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TW's thrashing produces more dumb strawmen

by Scapegoated Jew Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 1:24 PM

- I actually insisted that some of the Israelite tribes originated from Canaanite stock. I'll add that the Israelites gradually absorbed most Canaanites residing south and west to Phoenicia into themselves.

Truth Warper:
"Ah, so now you're admitting that the Arabs are in fact the descendants of the Hebrews, since the Canaanites were their ancestors and also the Israelites. Interesting!"

I've just recovered from a bout of laughter. You're full of crap...
Arabs aren't descended from any Canaanites. This tripe originated from the anti-Zionist *wink-wink* revisionist historians you're so find of reading.


Truth Warper:
"So CT, just how pasty white is your skin. Go look in the mirror. Do you look like a Semite? Or more like a German or a Slavonic? npuke belch fark snarl hiss"

What about you? How pale does your skin look for a Scot? Is there a standard Scottish look and complexion?

Truth Warper:
" So how do you figure you're more related to the ancient Israelites than Arabs cluck cluck?"

Remember the khazaria.com genetic studies summaries you quoted on Indybay? Go refer back to all of them and read each one beyond the summaries too. I'll be waiting.


- Have you asked Madonna the same question?"

Truth Warper:
"Nope, and I didn't ask you either. Fuck off "

Yet Madonna is Roman Catholic and studied/s Qabbala and has been/was in contact with at least one rabbi. So you go self-fornicate.


-Actually Zionism beat them [pan-Arab nationalism] at [being anti-colonialist]

Truth Warper:
"Zionism beat them at what?"

I twisted nothing. Zionism was even less colonialist than the pan-Arab movement, the Arab League, and certain Arab countries like Egypt and Syria (who always had colonialist designs to prey on its neighbor Lebanon). You stand debunked *yet again*.
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שבת שלום חברים

by Shabbat Sholom Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 1:38 PM

Thanks so much, Tia!

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Martin Luther King on

by ZIonism and anti-Semitis Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 1:43 PM

Monday, January 21, 2002 (San Francisco Chronicle)
“I have a dream” for peace in the Middle East
King's Special Bond with Israel
by John Lewis

THE REV. MARTIN Luther King Jr. understood the meaning of discrimination and oppression. He sought ways to achieve liberation and peace, and he thus understood that a special relationship exists between African Americans and American Jews.

This message was true in his time and is true today.

He knew that both peoples were uprooted involuntarily from their homelands. He knew that both peoples were shaped by the tragic experience of slavery. He knew that both peoples were forced to live in ghettoes, victims of segregation.He knew that both peoples were subject to laws passed with the particular intent of oppressing them simply because they were Jewish or black. He knew that both peoples have been subjected to oppression and genocide on a level unprecedented in history.

King understood how important it is not to stand by in the face of injustice. He understood the cry, “Let my people go.”

Long before the plight of the Jews in the Soviet Union was on the front pages, he raised his voice. “I cannot stand idly by, even though I happen to live in the United States and even though I happen to be an American Negro and not be concerned about what happens to the Jews in Soviet Russia. For what happens to them happens to me and you, and we must be concerned.”

During his lifetime King witnessed the birth of Israel and the continuing struggle to build a nation. He consistently reiterated his stand on the Israel — Arab conflict, stating “Israel's right to exist as a state in security is uncontestable.” It was no accident that King emphasized “security” in his statements on the Middle East,

On March 25, 1968, less than two weeks before his tragic death, he spoke out with clarity and directness stating, “peace for Israel means security, and we must stand with all our might to protect its right to exist, its territorial integrity. I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.”

During the recent U.N. Conference on Racism held in Durban, South Africa, we were all shocked by the attacks on Jews, Israel and Zionism. The United States of America stood up against these vicious attacks.

Once again, the words of King ran through my memory, “I solemnly pledge to do my utmost to uphold the fair name of the Jews — because bigotry in any form is an affront to us all.”

During an appearance at Harvard University shortly before his death, a student stood up and asked King to address himself to the issue of Zionism. The question was clearly hostile. King responded, “When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews, you are talking anti-Semitism.”

King taught us many lessons. As turbulence continues to grip the Middle East, his words should continue to serve as our guide. I am convinced that were he alive today he would speak clearly calling for an end to the violence between Israelis and Arabs.

He would call upon his fellow Nobel Peace Prize winner, Yasser Arafat, to fulfill the dream of peace and do all that is within his power to stop the violence.

He would urge continuing negotiations to reduce tensions and bring about the first steps toward genuine peace.

King had a dream of an “oasis of brotherhood and democracy” in the Middle East.

As we celebrate his life and legacy, let us work for the day when Israelis and Palestinians, Jews and Muslims, will be able to sit in peace “under his vine and fig tree and none shall make him afraid.”

***

U.S. Rep. John Lewis, a Democrat, represents the 5th Congressional District of Georgia and worked closely with Martin Luther King Jr. during the civil rights movement.
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Tee Dubya getting foul mouthed in despair

by Scapegoated Jew Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 1:59 PM

-Remember the khazaria.com genetic studies?

Truth Warper:
"Oh yeah, I sure do. And I understood them a hell of a lot better than you, too. Mitochondrial RNA is a pure maternal inheritance. At the number of generations you're talking about, it represents an infinitesimally small percentage of heredity. All it proves is that the whole 'maternal lineage" principle has actually been observed. belch__ snarl __breaking furniture__snarl__puke__hiss__fart__."

I'll take your arguments as a refutation of these studies' findings when you show us your credentials and I have been convinced you can be taken as a superior authority.
Besides, you're lying right off the bat because I know Y-chromosome inheritance was also looked at in most or all of these studies.

"Chutzpa chuzpa..." C'mon, shriek some more for us as you tell us how pale your complexion is.
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Its Bigger than a Pebble, isn't it?

by Becky Johnson Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 4:16 PM
Santa Cruz, CA.

TW WRITES: "Only in the mind of a zio-zealot like Becky could an obscure reference on an ancient block of rock constitute "proof" of ancient Israel's existence. Zionists insist that Moabite, the language of the stele, is archaic Hebrew. This is an interesting claim, since the alphabets look nothing alike:"

BECKY: Its bigger than a pebble, isn't it? I only posted it. I didn't explain it. It's archeological evidence of the existence of the ancient kingdom of Israel in that it refers (disparagingly) towards King David. Also carbon-dating techniques were used to place the stone's date at roughly the time the Jewish Bible says David was King.

As archeological evidence goes, this is practically another rosetta stone.

While its true, being raised as a Lutheran by Finnish and Swedish parents did not train me as either a biblical scholar nor a focus on ancient midest history. But ancient history and archeology have always fascinated me, and I have read extensively on both archeology and anthropology.
As for mideast history these days, everyone has computers and google and can easily fill in any blanks they don't know.

The person I referred to as "my rabbi" was an orthodox Jewish rabbi who I worked with in 2000 - 2001 on homeless issues. He led an effort to serve free food for homeless people in Baltimore in which the mayor had gotten an injunction forbidding the feedings.

He organized a protest of religious people to come down to city hall and violate the injunction. He also called all the press. It worked. there was a stand-off. the mayor caved.
the injunction was revoked. and 2 months later, the mayor kicked down another 3 million for homeless services.

I was involved with him on the "Camp Paradise" issue here in Santa Cruz. And no, I am not Jewish.

Now a question for you TW: Why do you post an article from a Nazi website here on LA IMC?
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More Ancient Israeli Artifacts

by Becky Johnson Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 4:56 PM
Santa Cruz, CA.

So Nessie, why don't you post some examples of 8th Century B.C.E. relics in the area of Israel with Palestinian inscriptions?
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Even more Ancient Israelite artifacts

by Becky Johnson Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 5:00 PM
Santa Cruz, CA.

They didn't call this "The Cave of Treasures" for nothing!

The value of the archeological evidence contained within
will protect Israel from the attacks of scores of historical revisionists with erasers.

Nessie, I apologise. In the last post, I meant TW instead.
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Another Ancient Israel Artifact

by Becky Johnson Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 5:04 PM
Santa Cruz, CA.

So TW? Found any ancient Palestinian artifacts to post for readers? Since there isn't so much as "a pebble of evidence" and there is so much evidence to the contrary, why don't you post something? Inquiring archeological minds are waiting.
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Warren's Shaft: 2nd Millenium B.C.E.

by Becky Johnson Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 5:09 PM
Santa Cruz, CA.

Not an artifact, but a construction.

TW: Do you have any photos or links to similar Palestinian Arab ancient structure that preceeds the birth of Jesus?

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Israelite king Yehu in Assyrian records

by Scapegoated Jew Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 5:10 PM

(King Jehu Bowing Before Shalmanesar III (Close Up))


"This close up of the second panel reveals Israelites led by king Jehu of Israel paying tribute and bowing to the dust before king Shalmaneser III, who is making a libation to his god. We know it is Jehu because of the cuneiform text on the obelisk "Jehu the son of Omri". It also mentions his gifts of gold, silver, lead and spear shafts."

http://www.bible-history.com/assyria_archaeology/archaeology_of_ancient_assyria_archaeological_discoveries.html
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Tomb of Kings

by Becky Johnson Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 5:18 PM
Santa Cruz, CA.

More archeological evidence of ancient Jewish inhabitation of Israel pre-dating any Arab/Islamic presence.

Kings by the way, were monarchs who headed these entities called "countries." For example: King David or King Solomon

TW: Or are you saying THEY didn't exist?

Challenge to TW: Name a Palestinian leader BEFORE Yassir Arafat? If the Palestinians are so ancient, and the Jewish culture is so recent (colonialist??? isn't that what you said?) then you should easily be able to name a previous King of palestine? Prince? Heck, I'lll accept a Palestinian Dog Catcher if he was a Palestinian leader who existed PRIOR to Yassir Arafat.

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Image of Israelites of the Judah tribe

by Scapegoated Jew Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 5:22 PM

"Now it came to pass in the fourteenth year of King Hezekiah that Sennacherib king of Assyria came up against all the fortified cities of Judah and took them. "(Isaiah 36:1-2)

This sculptured wall excavated at ancient Nineveh illustrates the fall of Lachish by the army of king Sennacherib and the inhabitants being driven into captivity.

A beautifully preserved six-sided hexagonal prism of baked clay, commonly known as the Taylor Prism, was discovered among the ruins of Nineveh, the ancient capital of the Assyrian Empire. It contains the victories of Sennacherib himself, the Assyrian king who had besieged Jerusalem in 701 BC during the reign of king Hezekiah, it never mentions any defeats. On the prism Sennacherib boasts that he shut up "Hezekiah the Judahite" within Jerusalem his own royal city "like a caged bird."
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So much for "overwhelming proof"

by TW Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 9:32 PM

To belabor a quite obvious point:
"Here's what WOULD constitute proof: extensive ruins within the borders of present-day Israel, from which voluminous amounts of unambiguous hebraic text have been recovered. This would make ancient Israel's existence as irrefutable as that of Sumeria, Carthage, Egypt, Phoenicia, etc."

You HAVE NOT succeeded in clearing this hurdle

Heres a nice picture of the Gezer Gate:
http://www.ebibletools.com/israel/gezer/dcp_1137.html

and the Megiddo Gate:
http://www.bu.edu/anep/026.gif

A discussion, with pictures, of the Hazor gate:
http://www.archaeology-classic.com/Israel_E/Hazor.html

The only way these could be EMPIRICALLY linked to ancient Israel is if there were buttloads of Hebrew inscriptions all over the place, and now it turns out BY YOUR OWN TESTIMONY that this could just as easily indicate Canaanites!!

You don't know who the fuck built this stuff! Your real reason for believing as you do is the same as always: you have a desperate motive for doing so.

More interesting facts about your "proof":

item: King Jehu Bowing Before Shalmanesar III
site: Nimrud, Assyria
script: cuneiform
meaning: who fuckin knows?? The "translators" were probably either Jews or Christians -- lying fanatic fucks either way.

item: The Merneptah Stele
site: Thebes, Egypt
script: Egyptian hieroglyphics
meaning: who fuckin knows?? The "translators" were probably either Jews or Christians -- lying fanatic fucks either way.
Additional note: if this is the sole reference to "Israel" from the Egyptian language, how does anybody know that's what it means?

Note to Becky the sea-hag: "Warren's Shaft," huh? I thought it was a picture of your twat. Yeah, I have "photos or links to similar Palestinian Arab ancient structures." You just supplied them. All you're showing me is generic ancient ruins. If there were big statues of guys with lopped off foreskins or eating matzoh balls you might have a point. Since the linguistic line between Israelites and Canaanites is now acknowledged to be totally ambiguous, it's just as plausible to say the Canaanites built everything you're showing here.

You idiots have exposed your own archaeological case to be a pile of malarkey! Without a convincing volume of textual material definitely traceable to ancient Judaism and recovered FROM THE ACTUAL TERRITORY OF ISRAEL, all your "overwhelming proof" is just like your deity: another figment of your deranged manipulative imaginations

So Beck-O, how 'bout sharing your equivalent knowledge of Old Norse or Trypillian cultures? You must be just as fascinated by them, right? You're so transparently full of shit! That you would use a BIBLE VERSE as "proof" just says it all. Baha'i, huh?

Oh, another thing: a "Rosetta Stone" would have to have M-U-L-T-I-P-L-E L-A-N-G-U-A-G-E-S

Not only are you lying propagandists, not to be trusted whatsoever, but you're also building on the lying-ass Christian propagandists who first dug this stuff out of the desert (or hoaxed it up) and then twisted it all to corroborate their Holy Book of Bullshit (derived, after all, from the Jewish Holy Book of Bullshit).

Here's a couple of heavyweight brains conversing on the matter, revealing that your various "proofs" of Israel aren't nearly as neat and tidy as you pretend

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/judaism/0230PersiaJudaism.html

The Tel Dan stone (a scrap of text so pathetically tiny as to be useless) is repeatedly referred to as the sole record outside the bible that supports the existence of the 'House of David.' Even this is contestible. The passage that serves as "proof" consists of two cryptic words: "BT DW," assumed to mean "beit David." That's it. Shit, it could mean "bat dookey," for all anybody knows. Every mention of David in ancient scriptural texts takes the form 'DWD,' not 'DW.' Of course zionist maniacs get their hands on this and start flopping around on the ground blowing their nuts off all over themselves (picture the guys who hang out like ghouls at Baruch Goldstein's shrine)

The record represented by the TINY* sample of known artifacts is so fragmentary and inherently ambiguous that it lends itself to VERY creative translation. Throw in a pack of pathological lying fanatics with a frantic political motive, and you've got about enough to buy you a warm six-pack of Old Milwaukee. Basically you got nuthin.

*If your "ancient Israeli Kingdom" were a solid proposition, the sample wouldn't be tiny and widely scattered. It would be voluminous and concentrated.

You devoutly believe all your own lies in the present. It's reasonable to suspect that this is not a new habit.
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Oh, one more thing, Beck-O

by TW Saturday, Jul. 01, 2006 at 9:54 PM

Your tile mosaic titled "Another Ancient Israel Artifact" is almost certainly a Roman creation. If you were really an avid student of ancient history categorically, you would have known this.
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TW

by if we could provide Sunday, Jul. 02, 2006 at 8:57 AM

you with a signed, notarized affidavit , carved by the most holy herself you'd still question it.

But when asked to provide evidence to the contrary- you come up empty handed.

What information do you have that indicates any other group has a better claim to the land of Israel than the Jews?
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Xray eyes

by Scapegoated Jew Sunday, Jul. 02, 2006 at 1:28 PM

EDITORS: I'm not dumb; I realize I'm being discriminated against due to your friend's ('Sheepdog') absence since June 12, but I'm not about to bow down to the pressure you're applying to me. I came to this site with the best intentions and started with a friendly attitude as attested to in the email I sent you way back. In return you threatened to "autoblock" me permanently as you were addressing 'Sheepdog'. If you believe he left on my account, too bad. I don't feel guilty in the least. Nor am I sorry that a person who liberally bandies around the slur "zionazi" is missing.

==========================================

Debunking TW's latest denials:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/hidden.php?id=166360#166823

http://la.indymedia.org/news/hidden.php?id=166360#166875

http://la.indymedia.org/news/hidden.php?id=166360#166883
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Nah, still not convinced

by TW Sunday, Jul. 02, 2006 at 11:33 PM

Keep trying
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re: Mount Gerizim

by TW Sunday, Jul. 02, 2006 at 11:39 PM

Yeh, Jewish propagandist maniac "archaeology" at its very finest, straight from the horse's mouth of the Israeli government. Must have been a little factory there cranking out all the "artifacts"
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"The onus is on you to offer a reasonable alternative"

by TW Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 12:07 AM

The only onus I have is to keep distrusting you along with every other zionist whack-bag
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Tinky Winky Warping Truth

by Scapegoated Jew Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 7:51 AM

Truth Warper:
"Nah, still not convinced
Keep trying"

That's lame even for your own renowned BS skills.


Truth Warper:
"re: Mount Gerizim
Yeh, Jewish propagandist maniac "archaeology" at its very finest, straight from the horse's mouth of the Israeli government. Must have been a little factory there cranking out all the "artifacts" "

Keep trying. Many of us are just dismising you with hearty laughter. hahahaha..... BTW what makes you think Arabs and Druze didn't participate in the digs?


- The onus is on you to offer a reasonable alternative

Truth Warper:
"The only onus I have is to keep distrusting you along with every other zionist whack-bag"

Hehehehehehe.......
Weak!

You've proven neither 515 BC -- 636 AD Canaanite existence in present-day Israel nor Palestinian existence for the same period. You stand refuted.
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No seegar, nope. Keep jerking your chutzpah joint

by TW Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 11:02 AM

"BTW what makes you think Arabs and Druze didn't participate in the digs?"

Yeah sure -- cleaning out the porta-potties. I know how you think: brainwork is for Jews (true humans); drudgework is for clomping baboons

"...your salient folly of stressing volume over quality..."

No, you keep trying to slither around the very REAL issues of *scale* that are an obvious point of distinction between "a Kingdom" and a tribe of goatherds with delusions of grandeur, in constant territorial flux with other such tribes.

Every other society of the stature you claim for Israel (e.g. Sumeria) left behind WAREHOUSES worth of completely unambiguous artifacts.

Artifacts DIRECTLY and DEFINITELY attributable to the Hebrews, on the other hand, are fantastically rare. This is what you have demonstrated. If it were otherwise, you could come up with better examples than broken half-bullae and crumbling half-legible silver micro-scrolls.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe you've shown me a single artifact of the Hebrews that is not of a highly portable nature consistent with a culture of roving nomads, the Middle East's own Roma (your attitude is a lot like theirs...).

Where are the massive bas-reliefs commemorating David and Solomon? Where are their monumental tombs? Where are the inscribed temples to YHWH? Where is there a scrap of evidence of the entire previous chronology going back to Moses and Abraham? Somebody should go hide out on a mountain somewhere and fake up some stone tablets -- you know, like Moses did.

It's all a bunch of fairy tales cooked up to brainwash children, and you persist in believing them cuz you're an intellectual child! It's EXACTLY like your religion!

"You've proven neither 515 BC -- 636 AD Canaanite existence in present-day Israel nor Palestinian existence..."

Once again, thick fuck, I don't have to "prove" anything. All I have to do is keep operating from the completely sensible premise that you're a delusional bloodline-obsessed asshole. It's served me beautifully thus far

That there has been a continuous legacy of Canaanite culture in the Middle East dating from that time is AT LEAST as credible as your pretense that there's ancient Israelite blood flowing in YOUR veins. For that matter, you've all but confessed that the distinction between Israelites and Canaanites was hair-splitting. Religion doesn't provide a dividing line either. I found out along my travels that the people of Samaria were at one point counted as Israelites but were actually Ba'al worshippers!!!

Say bye-bye, man: there goes the last clear distinct line setting the "Israelites" apart from the indecipherable mish-mash of hebraphone cultures in that area

Sure there were "Canaanites" in that area circa 515 BC to 636 AD. That would have been YOU! Oh, it was also the "Moslem hordes." Same diff.

I can see your face turning purple from here. "My people the same as those sub-human Palestinian gutter-worms???!!!???!??!?!?!???!?!!" (pulls his Uzi out from under his desk while logging into travelocity.com)

Yeah, that's right, one and the same. Or as Dennis Hopper said to Christopher Walken in 'True Romance': "you Sicilians, you know you're part nigger?" Why is this so unthinkable for you? Gotta racist bug up your ass or sumpin?

You maniacs give the phrase "identity politics" a whole new psychotic meaning
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what are you

by getting at here? Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 11:23 AM

If you accept the Bible as fact, and I don't think anyone here actually does, then the geneology of the Bible is filled with stories of "interbreeding"- ruth was a moabite- she is rewarded for her loyalty by begining. the bloodline of David
Moses was married to a Mideonite.
No one claims "purity" of bloodline, not Jews, not Arabs.
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Okay, great!

by TW Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 11:55 AM

It's so wonderful to see you finally admit that Palestinians are descended from ancient Hebrews fully as much as European Jews, if not more. So now Becky, CM, Tia, Yidiot, etc. are gonna quit their relentless bullshit about European Jews having "ancestral rights" to this area, correct? Oh joy, I never thought I would see this day!

Also, if you don't have any such 'direct lineage' obsession, what the hell is this site about:

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

and why did thuh Yidiot bring it to my attention in the first place?
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hello again

by charismatic megafauna Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 12:25 PM

TW,

When have you seen me arguing this case? I'm talking about what's going on NOW. It's clear that both groups have decent, now lets work with what's going on now.
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"It's clear that both groups have decent"

by TW Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 1:04 PM

This is the first time any one of you has stated anything remotely like this. Who do you think you're kidding?

As for "whats going on NOW":

1) I've spoken my mind on this before: the zionist state has to initiate the healing process (this is only just; it initiated everything that created the wound), and that the best, most persuasive olive branch would be complete dismantling of the settlements and the full return of everything inside the Green Line. That would be my step one. Beyond that, I'd have to have a crystal ball.

2) It's typical of your faction that you would spend four days tenaciously taking a position, then the moment it becomes a flaming wreck you dart off on a whole new tack

"Oh no, it doesn't matter that we twist "facts" to fit our motives, and that you just demonstrated this (again). No no, everybody, don't look at that. Now let's talk about THIS..."

No. DO look at it, everybody. Look at it very long and hard. Remember that this is the mentality you're dealing with...

The Palestinians have absorbed such lessons. That's why they reject the possibility of meaningful negotiation out of hand
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my thoughts

by charismatic megafauna Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 1:14 PM

"It's clear that both groups have decent"
by TW Sunday, Jul. 02, 2006 at 4:04 PM

This is the first time any one of you has stated anything remotely like this. Who do you think you're kidding?

>>I didn't say ANYTHING on the topic, because I have nowhere near the expertise of those who were involved, like SJ.

As for "whats going on NOW":

1) I've spoken my mind on this before: the zionist state has to initiate the healing process (this is only just; it initiated everything that created the wound), and that the best, most persuasive olive branch would be complete dismantling of the settlements and the full return of everything inside the Green Line. That would be my step one. Beyond that, I'd have to have a crystal ball.

>>Aside from placing full responsibility on Israel (the pa should work to stop groups like Hizbollah, it is their efforts that are slowing the peace process), I agree...oh, also except Jerusalem, which I would suggest be international.

2) It's typical of your faction that you would spend four days tenaciously taking a position, then the moment it becomes a flaming wreck you dart off on a whole new tack

>>I already explained myself

"Oh no, it doesn't matter that we twist "facts" to fit our motives, and that you just demonstrated this (again). No no, everybody, don't look at that. Now let's talk about THIS..."

>>Sorry, I believe SJ, but like I said, I'm not getting involved.

No. DO look at it, everybody. Look at it very long and hard. Remember that this is the mentality you're dealing with...

The Palestinians have absorbed such lessons. That's why they reject the possibility of meaningful negotiation out of hand

The "mentality?" I didn't see any twisting of facts, and either way, this might be a minority "mentality" (which, once again, I'm not seeing), and it doesn't justify not doing what's right. Just because you don't like someone...you should condone groups that randomly target the general population in places in Israel.
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"the pa should work to stop groups like Hizbollah..."

by TW Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 1:52 PM

This is you willfully ignoring my point that "[Israel] initiated everything that created the wound." Zionists taught the Palestinians absolutely everything they know about terrorism, not just tactically but also the faith that it actually WORKS (it has worked out beautifully for Israel; also for every other pack of thugs licking America's ass)

"Jerusalem [should be] international"

By this you mean west as well as east Jerusalem, is that right?

"I didn't see any twisting of facts"

It's not overt twisting of facts that I'm talking about. It's the frantic motivated attachment to a single interpretation (that Israel was a "Kingdom" as per the Bible) when strict physical evidence doesn't really support this. You saw the best he could come up with. Did that really look to you like a conclusive evidence of a "kingdom," or a vanishingly fragmented trail that could mean any number of things? It's not a matter of taking sides (if you're capable of doing otherwise). It's a matter of thinking critically for yourself
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cooperation

by charismatic megafauna Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 2:06 PM

"This is you willfully ignoring my point that "[Israel] initiated everything that created the wound." Zionists taught the Palestinians absolutely everything they know about terrorism, not just tactically but also the faith that it actually WORKS (it has worked out beautifully for Israel; also for every other pack of thugs licking America's ass)"

Initiated everything? Hell no. When there were going to be two states, the surrounding Arab countries attacked.

The old Zionists went for structural damage, my friend, much like Nelson Mandella's movement. Big difference. And you don't see the warnings like there were before King David in these terrorist attacks.

Aside from that, what we need now is cooperation.

""Jerusalem [should be] international"

By this you mean west as well as east Jerusalem, is that right?"

Yup.

""I didn't see any twisting of facts"

It's not overt twisting of facts that I'm talking about. It's the frantic motivated attachment to a single interpretation (that Israel was a "Kingdom" as per the Bible) when strict physical evidence doesn't really support this. You saw the best he could come up with. Did that really look to you like a conclusive evidence of a "kingdom," or a vanishingly fragmented trail that could mean any number of things? It's not a matter of taking sides (if you're capable of doing otherwise). It's a matter of thinking critically for yourself"

Heard of the Western Wall? Much of the old city is damn good proof. If you don't believe me, go yourself, walking through any of the gates can be quite moving.

The kingdom was largely centered in Jerusalem, it would seem, hence not as much evidence outside of it, but I've seen more than the few snippets SJ and Becky showed. Gotta admit, I'm still waiting for the golden hemmorhoids (don't ask, really...the bible is kinda..umm...strange).

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thanks SJ

by charismatic megafauna Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 2:18 PM

For your eloquence and knowledge...with you around to debunk the myths, I'm not touching this with a ten foot pole.
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Twisting and Warping the Truth away

by Scapegoated Jew Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 2:41 PM

To CM: your welcome! But thank you too -- you covered for me while I was posting the lengthy retort!

-------

CM: the pa should work to stop groups like Hizbollah.

Truth Warper:
"This is you willfully ignoring my point that "[Israel] initiated everything that created the wound.""

You're point is full of crap. The local Arabs and then the Palestinians inaugurated the hostilities.

Truth Warper:
"Zionists taught the Palestinians absolutely everything they know about terrorism, not just tactically but also the faith that it actually WORKS puke belch snarl"

You mean Israel taught the Egyptian and Syrian nationals that formed the core of the PLO? Or you refer to the local Arabs back in 1920 before the Haganah was even founded in response to Arab terrorism? Were those supposed tactical training and transition of faith the impetus for the 1921, 1929, 1936-1939 Arab "riots"? History doesn't substantiate your claim.

-------

Re internationalization of Jerusalem: I don't trust the int'l community to guarantee any rights for Jews in its current constellation.

-------

Truth Warper
"It's not overt twisting of facts that I'm talking about. It's the frantic motivated attachment to a single interpretation (that Israel was a "Kingdom" as per the Bible) when strict physical evidence doesn't really support this."

When you're that capable of denial and delusions and dissonance you're able to reject every smidgen of clear support even as you admitted above that my evidence supports Israel's antiquity and historicity, except you "can't seem to be able to pinpoint its exact geographical location" or something to this effect.
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Chaver

by are you talking to "m"? Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 6:00 PM

over at that cultural wasteland, Indybay?

He is the Iraqi Jew withthe blue hair in the last photo. He's been described as "deranged".

Just some background....
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CT has a head like a block from the fukkin wailing wall!!

by TW Monday, Jul. 03, 2006 at 8:30 PM

"...admitted above that my evidence supports Israel's antiquity and historicity..."

Yeah that's right, moron, but what I brought up to begin with is as follows. Go back and see for yourself if you don't believe me:

"conclusive archeological evidence of the existence of the "ANCIENT KINGDOM of Israel""

That's KINGDOM, get it? As in BIG, wealthy, grandiose, monumental, dripping with artifacts, ya know? Not a caravan of gypsies dropping pennies and shit
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more

by peurile crap Tuesday, Jul. 04, 2006 at 4:18 AM

I believe in the sun even when it is not shining.
I believe in love even when feeling it not.
I believe in God even when he is silent.
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Policy for Hiding Posts

by Becky Johnson Tuesday, Jul. 04, 2006 at 7:38 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

BECKY: Since a few of my posts have been hidden for reasons unknown to me, I reviewed the editorial policy for LA Indymedia.

from: http://www.la.indymedia.org/process/openpub.php

When May A Post Be Hidden?

An "open publishing" system is founded, fundamentally, on trust. The participants in, and editors of, this project trust that other participants will use the newswire to publish intelligent and insightful news and commentary. As Los Angeles Indymedia's popularity has grown, so has the abuse of our open publishing system. Some of the abuse seems to be juvenile in nature; some it is a deliberate attempt to destroy the project. What's more, an unsystematic and scattershot moderation policy may have confused readers, who might not be aware of what constitutes abuse and what constitutes news.

The Los Angeles IMC editorial collective, in order to maintain the integrity of the newswire and the media commons it creates for our community of participants, may "hide" posts to the Newswire when the content doesn't fit the guidelines we have decided to use (see below).

We'd like to remind everyone that hidden articles are not deleted from the site. All content posted to the newswire can be accessed from a link from the front page, where hidden posts can be viewed.

While we try to avoid hiding posts as much as possible, the following types of items will merit close scrutiny and may be hidden:

* "Spam" posting; i.e., posts deliberately designed to disrupt the newswire and its basic ability to function. These are posts that are deemed to be devoid of content or analysis and appear to be published with the sole purpose of disruption.
* Posts the author has requested hidden.
* Posts that are obviously incorrect or misleading. This includes attempts to spread misinformation or to impersonate another individual.
* Posts that contain generalized and negative assertions about any race, nation, creed, class, ethnic group, sexual orientation, etc.
* Posts that advocate the mass physical elimination of a specific race, nation, creed, class, ethnic group, sexual orientation, etc, or that link to websites that advocate the same.
* Posts that treat the newswire as a personal "bulletin board" with non-political content directed at one or another newswire participants.
* Unreadable formats (i.e. photos posted as text).
* Posts titled "test".
* Duplicate posts (including duplicate photographs).
* Advertising of products or for-profit services.
* Pornography, excepting sexually explicit satire.

While these policies seem reasonable and innocuous, I am still mystified as to why my posts were censored.

Maybe the "AUTHOR" --TW --- asked for it to be removed?
Of course the author in this thread is NOT TW but the Jewish Tribal Review, a neo-Nazi website which violates the LA.IMC prohibition on "links to sites..,." that "advocates the mass elimination of a specific...nation"

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Toothless Warrior has no marbles!!

by Scapegoated Jew Tuesday, Jul. 04, 2006 at 9:53 AM

Truth Warper:
"Yeah that's right, moron, but what I brought up to begin with is as follows. Go back and see for yourself if you don't believe me:

"conclusive archeological evidence of the existence of the "ANCIENT KINGDOM of Israel""

"That's KINGDOM, get it? As in BIG, wealthy, grandiose, monumental, dripping with artifacts, ya know? puke belch fart"

Out here in the grownups' world you're the one that has to adapt himself to what constitutes sufficient evidence by suspending your expectations of a cornucopia of a Jimmy-Swaggart-like bevy of evidence, not expect me to align myself along your impossible expectations. I withstood the challange whereas all you could do is squeal in protest "the decipherers must be either Jews or Christians in the service of empire!". So get out of my sight already.
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Replies

by TW Tuesday, Jul. 04, 2006 at 1:28 PM

CM: How do you know WITH CERTAINTY that the Western Wall was built by ancient Israelis, versus some other culture now occluded by Christian / Jewish dogma (see my objection here: http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/06/166360_comment.php#166833 ). Because (and only because) this is cherished zionist lore? That's all fine and well, except it doesn't pass any sort of rigorous standard. Is there a pebble of archaeological evidence that supports this? It may be necessary, in light of all available hard evidence, to confess you simply don't know and neither does anyone else. The subject of History gets politically cooked like no other, and zionist politics are a runaway freight train frying up history like no other. Multiply these points together and you have an edifice of possible historical conceits that has to be skeptically deconstructed like no other. That's really all I'm saying.

Becky: maybe your shit is getting thrown out because the mods are simply catching onto what you're really about, i.e. mindless unconditional amoral defense of the zionist state. That's what happened at Indybay too. Now THERE'S an important lesson for you zionists to absorb: when people keep rejecting you wherever you go, this is probably Occam's Razor telling you you're a jerk-off.

Cretinous Thinker: so then ADRESS instead of evade the following points. Or shut up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

...the very REAL issues of *scale* that are an obvious point of distinction between "a Kingdom" and a tribe of goatherds with delusions of grandeur, in constant territorial flux with other such tribes.

Every other society of the stature you claim for Israel (e.g. Sumeria) left behind WAREHOUSES worth of completely unambiguous artifacts.

Artifacts DIRECTLY and DEFINITELY attributable to the Hebrews, on the other hand, are fantastically rare. This is what you have demonstrated. If it were otherwise, you could come up with better examples than broken half-bullae and crumbling half-legible silver micro-scrolls.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe you've shown me a single artifact of the Hebrews that is not of a highly portable nature consistent with a culture of roving nomads, the Middle East's own Roma (your attitude is a lot like theirs...).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I notice the "boring / eating up LA IMC's bandwidth" objection got pulled. This is fascinating. I can't see one of the mods doing this, so it must be that one of you got up to one of your classic false-flag stunts.
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He just keeps up the bunk flinging momentum

by Scapegoated Jew Tuesday, Jul. 04, 2006 at 2:22 PM

Truth Warper:
"CM: How do you know WITH CERTAINTY that the Western Wall was built by ancient Israelis, versus some other culture now occluded by Christian / Jewish dogma... belch... vomit... . Is there a pebble of archaeological evidence that supports this? belchj belch "

This feeble attempt at objection is utter crap. The Jewish king Herod employed Jews that built the Western Wall (in the course of enlarging and flattening the entire Temple Mount compound). Why, it's attested to by Josephus Flavius, the Jewish priest and historian in two of his tomes, Wars and Antiquity of the Jews. Try cracking it open sometime. The holy radiance won't kill you on spot.


Truth Warper:
"The subject of History gets politically cooked like no other, and zionist politics are a runaway freight train frying up history like no other."

Au contraire, anti-Zionism has at leaast a hundred fold better repute at cooking up doctored history. Your beloved JTR is but one example of the phenomenon.

Truth Warper:
"Multiply these points together and you have an edifice of possible historical conceits that has to be skeptically deconstructed like no other. That's really all I'm saying. "

You couldn't be more correct where anti-Zionist treatment of history is concerned.

Truth Warper:
"Becky: maybe your shit is getting thrown out because the mods are simply catching onto what you're really about, i.e. mindless unconditional amoral defense of the zionist state. That's what happened at Indybay too. "

That's a blatant lie. I've seen instances of BJ's posting which belie your predictable un-nuanced charge. Like when she opined that the attack on a Nazerth church committed by a crackpot couple and their daughter was a terrorist Israeli act.

Truth Warper:
"Now THERE'S an important lesson for you zionists to absorb: when people keep rejecting you wherever you go, this is probably Occam's Razor telling you you're a jerk-off. "

No, it tells us that you (plural, but including TW) are bigoted jerkoffs who have only so much tolerance for the whole truth (depending on each individual's own level of tolerance).

Truth Warper:
"Fart fart...
...the very REAL issues of *scale* that are an obvious point of distinction between "a Kingdom" and a tribe of goatherds with delusions of grandeur, in constant territorial flux with other such tribes.
Fart fart..."

~ Nope, the issue is that YOU keep trying to slither around the very REAL issue highlighting the distinction between purveyors of reliable evidence in both the quality *and* sufficient quantity dimensions that are obviously distinct from bullshitters who can't even try to marshal any evidence to prove Palestinian antiquity.

~ More cretinous hollow excuses to avoid acknowledging the obvious.

~ I'm laughing at you as I type this. Dismissing you is rather easy for the pseudo-Renaissance type of man you purport to be. In that sense I've learned that antisemities -- even of your variety -- make positive contributions in other arenas. After all if so many antisemitic musicians and playwrights have made such artistic contributions in centuries past, my shouldn't you be able to have a splendid command of many scientific disciplines, so long as Jews aren't part of the equation?

~ Knowing a thing or two, many of us distinguish between the nomadic or semi-nomadic Israelite society of the Judges period (~1200BC - 1025BC) and the subsequent periods of a mostly sedentary Israelite and then Jewish population.
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And STILL he doesn't address them

by TW Tuesday, Jul. 04, 2006 at 2:37 PM

I'd go through your bullshit point by point, but it's an open book to anyone who matters
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So you're effectively throwing hands up in the air

by Scapegoated Jew Tuesday, Jul. 04, 2006 at 2:46 PM

And one of the reasons for that is you can't stand the thought of verifying one of my claims by reading the reliable historical narrative of a Jewish priest.


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