Understand this. I am not here to support any "nationalistic" style of government. I am here to explain why it is happening now. I am here to tell you why immigrants "alien" status will not change, nor could it ever.

The Republican party of the US is trying to confuse issues of reality. They want to confuse issues that are disrupting the senate and the house of reps. Tommy DeLay, Scooter Libby, Pres. Bush's crappy ratings,,,the war in Iraq, Enron, IraN, the whole lot of bullshit the Bush Fascists have created.

YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT?

REALLY?

This whole agenda is designed for you (fill in the appropriate catagory)

WHITE--to blame problems of this country on immigrants. Dont blame the corporations who exploit you or the government who takes your money to fight BS wars.

IMMMIGRANTS---to incite "americans" AGAINST your "just freedom". You are to blame!

ALL THE WHILE THE WHOLE NATION TURNS AWAY FROM THE REAL PROBLEMS OF THIS COUNTRY.

NAMELY

THE GOVERNMENT

AND THE CORPORATIONS THAT EXPLOIT EVERYONE

americans, mexicans, immigrants.

THEY DONT CARE ABOUT YOU

they want to turn the "have littles", against the "have nothings"

while they sit back and laugh at their creation.

you dont see the TRUTH-----YOU FALL INTO THEIR GAME.

Fuck nations

fuck borders

fuck governments

fuck taxes

-----

as always

its a good day for a race

the human race

-----

we are all ONE.

DESTROY ALL NATIONS

@

What else do the NeoCons have? They will have a certain amount of unwavering support due to the issues of Gay Rights and Women's Reproductive Rights. But the "War on Terror" is a disaster as well as the perception of them "making us safe and secure" ie Katrina.

Maybe they can allow another attack on U.S. citizens. That's a uniter.

Illegal Immigration is a perfect lowest-common-denominator wedge issue that they can exploit. I'll bet the coming campaign slogans will reference "protecting our American way of life". This version of the Republican party exsists to expand US hegemony and remove barriers to corporate profit. The end justifies the mean (sic).

" Fuck nations

fuck borders

fuck governments

fuck taxes "

C'mon. How fucking inanely stupid can you get? You sound like a particularly stupid child spouting of ridiculous slogans.

Only fools who have nothing and never will have nothing be cause they do nothing can actually believe this silly crap.

if you had one......first of all it is "because" not be cause.

SO first you need a english class.

next you need to structure some sort of an argument that supports your initial claim.

try a philosophy of logic class.

My point is that borders and governments are unnecessary today, as they always have been.

They are the great purveyors of hate and death.

They overtax us and teach us nonsense.

They spend and give back very little.

Look at what we have today.

Let me understand where you are coming from.

You (presumably) dont want Foriegners within our "borders", yet are happy to see Americans within Iraqi borders.

The Iraq war which could have paid for healthcare for all americans for the next 200 years.

The bs military industrial complex that could have provided all americans with free housing, transportation, and schooling for the next 1000 years.

You do the math.

These are all paid for by the peoples taxes.

Oh, and before you bring up "terrorism"----

The borders have been kept open by who?

For what and why?

Why would someone in a country thousands of miles away want to kill you if they dont even know you?

Because some government told they to.

Because your govt. told you what to think.

This is why YOU are the one making up nonsense.

systemfailure said: "The Iraq war which could have paid for healthcare for all americans for the next 200 years.

The bs military industrial complex that could have provided all americans with free housing, transportation, and schooling for the next 1000 years. "

Translation: I want live as a ward of the state. I want to live my life totally dependent on a Nanny Government. I actively fight individual responsiblity and prefer to live as a leech on my host, the government.

"Translation: I want live as a ward of the state. I want to live my life totally dependent on a Nanny Government. I actively fight individual responsiblity and prefer to live as a leech on my host, the government. "

Translation:

I can't face the facts and want to defend the criminals in the seats of power for miss appropriating our taxes to enrich the crony capitalists while our social support structures are cannibalized or sold out to act as collateral to service debt of the stolen common wealth.

Government is a structure that is formed to serve the people, not the other way around. And the people means the majority not the wealthy minority.

This displeases you, no doubt.

Im sure Tommy is with the 26% of americans who support the war.

Like I said , this immigration issue has nothing to do with anything. Just blinds the nation ever further away from its real problems.

A war president out of control, spending and spending, looting another nation for no reason, a republilcan party corrupted to the bone, and a nation in chaos.

But did you see all the trolls jump on the wrong issue.

Noone cares if immigrants are here.

Noone can change it.

All because the govt. dosent want you looking at them.

They want have littles(citizens), fighting with the have nothings (people that want to be citizens).

we lose, and the govt fat cats laugh at our stupidity.

Your entire juvenile, college girl rant is predicated on the existence of "common wealth".

There is no such thing as "common wealth". All wealth is held and owned by individuals. Likewise, all taxes are paid by individuals.

No doubt this basic fact of economics irritates you.

National forests, the water and the air we breath. No shit, Sherlock, greed has removed nearly all of what we all had and now expects us to pay for it, or its effects.

Your juvenile apologies for it are typically fascist, in accordance with the corporate rape of this nation.

Wrong

"Fascism, from an economics standpoint, is massive government control of private wealth."

No; Fascism is corporate control of the process of government. Look it up.

Or read your hero Mussolini who coined the term.

And despite your reassembly of reality, the air, water, forests and social infrastructure *is* the common wealth. Your kind would sell all of it off to make a buck or use it to provide the collateral to service the debt that your corporate masters have racked up when they looted the Social Security funds to finance the military expenditures that fill the off shore un taxable accounts which have resulted in Trillions missing from the inventories that the GAO has reported.

For the curious, here's an audio file you may wish to listen to.

Cooking the Books: Fraud and the Garrison State

stream

http://radio4houston.org/takingaim/takingaim040406.m3u

download ( recommended)

http://radio4houston.org/takingaim/takingaim040406.mp3

Sheepdog says:

"No; Fascism is corporate control of the process of government. Look it up.

Or read your hero Mussolini who coined the term."



Sheepdog has a big mouth but no facts to back it up.

Exhibit A:

In an article in the 1932 Enciclopedia Italiana, written by Giovanni Gentile and attributed to Benito Mussolini, fascism is described as a system in which "The State not only is authority which governs and molds individual wills with laws and values of spiritual life, but it is also power which makes its will prevail abroad... For the Fascist, everything is within the State and... neither individuals nor groups are outside the State... For Fascism, the State is an absolute, before which individuals or groups are only relative..."



Exhibit B:

From "The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics"



Fascism

by Sheldon Richman



"Mussolini also eliminated the ability of business to make independent decisions: the government controlled all prices and wages, and firms in any industry could be forced into a cartel when the majority voted for it."

"Banking also came under extraordinary control. As Italy's industrial and banking system sank under the weight of depression and regulation, and as unemployment rose, the government set up public works programs and took control over decisions about building and expanding factories. The government created the Istituto Mobiliare in 1931 to control credit, and the IRI later acquired all shares held by banks in industrial, agricultural, and real estate enterprises."

"As World War II approached, the signs of fascism's failure in Italy were palpable: per capita private consumption had dropped to below 1929 levels, and Italian industrial production between 1929 and 1939 had increased by only 15 percent, lower than the rates for other Western European countries. Labor productivity was low and production costs were uncompetitive. The fault lay in the shift of economic decision-making from entrepreneurs to government bureaucrats, and in the allocation of resources by decree rather than by free markets. Mussolini designed his system to cater to the needs of the state, not of consumers. In the end, it served neither. "

Once again, Sheepdog, you've been proven wrong. Nor was it very difficult to do so. Fascism absolutely is government control of industry and wealth, not the other way around, as you allege. When Mussolini (who is not my hero by a long shot) ran Italy businesses were told, by the government, how much of their product they were to produce. The banking industry was micromanaged by the government. That is defacto government control of wealth.

You, sir, are an idiot.

You shouldn't let your mouth write checks that your intellect can't cash.

The rest of your post was reactionary, petty drivel.

The basic aim of all economic measures was to bring economic prosperity to Italy. Since 1921 Mussolini continued to adopt the high tariff policy to protect the home market from the competition of foreign goods. The most important economic reform was, however, the formation of the Corporate State.

On April 21, 1927 the Labour Charter solemnly expressed the ideas of Fascist Corporate State. According to the Charter, the government would bring both employers and employees of the same trade into one confederation.

In 1934 twenty-two corporations were formed. Each corporation consisted of employers' and workers' representatives. The government also sent its representatives to participate in the administration of the corporations. All the corporations were put under the supervision of a National Council of Corporations, of which Mussolini was the Chairman.

These Corporations provided accident, unemployment and health insurance for workers. But the workers’ strikes were forbidden. Workers could appeal to the Labour Courts of the Corporations if they had any disputes with the employers. The employers were urged by the government representatives of each corporation to improve the conditions of the workers—there should be no lockouts of workers by employers.

In spite of all his efforts Mussolini clearly failed to give economic prosperity to Italy and a real improvement in the standard of living of the workers and peasants.

First of all, the corporations benefited only the employers. Workers' interests were sacrificed in the name of national good. To the workers, no strikes were permitted. If they had a wage dispute, they could only appeal to the Labour Courts of the Corporations. But these Labour Courts were dominated by the employers and the state officials who always sided with the employers. Thus workers were forced to work without protest

Thanks for the history dig. One only has to look at the Faci symbol ( which adorns both sides of the speaker's chair in the House of Representatives ) to

see just how embedded this idea of corporate/ government is.

Natural resources are not wealth?

Suuuure. After reading that, I'm supposed to take seriously anything else you write?

Natural resources are the basis of all wealth. Everything is a natural resource. Every person is a natural resource.

Whether it's government controlling corporations or corporations controlling government is moot. The point is that it's a tight embrace under fascism, where the goals of the state and the capitalists are strongly aligned. The reason why the government takes the reins is because the economy is so poor that masses of people are upset and talking about a revolution. Participation in politics is high. Fascism prevents revolution by diverting potential communists into a more limited, strongly nationalist political movement that creates allies out of workers and capitalists. National unity becomes a salve that heals the divisive injuries inherent in a class war brought about during a depression.

Natural resources are NOT wealth because by definition wealth is a redeemable asset in a market. Unharvested natural resources are not part of a market, so they are not wealth. They are potential wealth, but by themselves they are only raw materials.

But thats a mere side issue. The real issue in this discussion is the petty hatred of wealth by leftist socialist such as sheepdog. This is nothing more than a juvenile class warfare mentality that seeks to eliminate competition (it will never eliminate class).

Wrong again,

It's the * theft* of our common wealth, whether it's the theft out of the national treasury or the rape of our heritage in the form of clear cutting the last remains of our old growth forests, pollution of our water and our air.

So a few can amass 'wealth' while the rest of us pay with the diminishing of our quality of life and the loss of what belongs to all the people...

And I haven't even thrown the cannibalization of our social structure to feed the corporate pirates into the equation.

'tommy hasn't addressed the Trillions of dollars that are 'missing' into this discussion. And compelled to go retro and begin spouting about 'socialists' which is a code word for schools, water systems, and public services like fire and police departments which he has now assigned to the trash bin under the rubric of 'wealth accumulation' for the few. But he needs the police as long as they can be assigned to protect this stolen common wealth.

A Constitutionalist indeed. More like a crony capitalist who advocates this corporate theft.

Denial is not just a river.

Still haven't addresses the theft or rape of our national real wealth.

Poor foolish person.

Individuals like yourself are unable to recognized wealth unless it's a cash commodity.

You are in the minority, as most people are sane and honest with themselves.

Wow! You just have no clue, do you? You just don't know when you shut up! Unbelievable!

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for yet AGAIN proving my point... that you're a ridicuously unserious imbecile.

Man... I hope you aren't breeding.

Oh my.

Still unable to address the issues.

Trillions missing from the Pentagon inventory into off shore accounts.

The dismantling or starvation of the social structure.

The rape of our common heritage.

You are left with only your brand of bile to spray.

Ranting about 'socialists' and such. S & Stones etc.

'you can tell when you're over the target by the amount of flak'

Another cat trying to cover shit on a marble floor.

It is the client status of Mexico and Latin America ( to the rapine of corporate interests) which has caused this conflict.

Particularly the use of terror and death squad labor suppression to make life for the majority an existence of grinding poverty and corrupt government which ignores its own laws as it is becoming like, here in the USA.

Give it a rest, imbecile. No one is interested in your juvenile foot stomping.

Shouldn't you be down at the laundramat washing your Che shirts and bandanas? Do your parents know about this?

>Natural resources are NOT wealth because by definition wealth is a redeemable asset in a market. Unharvested natural resources are not part of a market, so they are not wealth. They are potential wealth, but by themselves they are only raw materials.

If you don't have those resources, then, you're not going to get the wealth.

Moreover, if there are two people, and one owns the natural resources, and the other doesn't, then, the first will become wealthy, and the other, in all likelihood, will be laboring to create wealth for the first.

'Cause I like to kick his ass.

Is that all you have? Nothing?

I notice you are unable to provide any 'beef' to your bun.

Address the issue of corporate theft.

Address the issue of the spoiling /rape/theft of our common wealth for insatiable greed.

Address the outright theft of our treasury to enhance the balance of a few psychotic families who control the politics of this country.

Can you do it w/o resorting to 3rd grade temper tantrums?

"If you don't have those resources, then, you're not going to get the wealth. "

First, that's not the only way to get wealth. I could get wealthy as a consultant. Natural resources are not wealth, only potential wealth.

"Moreover, if there are two people, and one owns the natural resources, and the other doesn't, then, the first will become wealthy, and the other, in all likelihood, will be laboring to create wealth for the first."

Possibly. But if the guy who owns the natural resources mismanages them he'll loose money, not gain wealth. This is another reason the natural resources, in and of themselves, are not wealth, but rather only potential wealth.

My point still stands.

"Address the issue of corporate theft. "

Leftist fantasy. Corporate welfare is an issue (and should be ended), but simple 'corporate theft' is a leftist fantasy.

"Address the issue of the spoiling /rape/theft of our common wealth for insatiable greed. "

False argument. There is no such thing as "common wealth". I've already explained this to you.... twice. You haven't learned a thing. At this point I'm quite sure you suffer from a learning disability.

"Address the outright theft of our treasury to enhance the balance of a few psychotic families who control the politics of this country. "

Leftist fantasy. The deficit is ridiculous, but so is the rest of your statement.

Be sure to radio a signal to us when you are ready to re-enter the earths atmosphere.



You make this too easy for me, sheepdog.

Unable to address the issues it claims ignorance.

Denies reality.

Pretends it's stupid.

Good going.

Unable to address the issues it claims ignorance.

( like not being able to understand the GAO reports of missing Trillions) of dollars of inventory)

Denies reality.

( As noted, the natural resources we take as common holdings such as the forests, air and water don't really constitute common wealth, or so it says)

Pretends it's stupid.

( the flight into outer space as a 2nd grade retort.)

Want to try again?

... What?! ... Are you STLL talking?

Good God...

And you're, what,,, blithering.

What happened to all the Pentagon inventory? Stolen by your comrades in the corporate military crime association.

What happened to the waterways?

Polluted by your comrades in the manufacturing sector while we now have to use purified drinking water to stay healthy.

What happened our national forests?

Clear cut and now only open to the public for a payment to visit.

What happened to your argument?

Degenerated to babbling.

Why do you insist on making an fool of yourself?

tommy is a symbol of everything that is wrong with america today.

Denial of corporate corruption within the walls of the government.

Enron, Halliburton, lobbyists offering money for all takers.

Seeing top officials in the white house and congress indicted for crimes/ corrption.

But still not buying it.

Corporate industry such as agriculture and meat packing industries using/ importing illegal immigrants for their own gain (under the govts nose).

Believing and supporting an illegal and unjust war for oil, because the television told them what to think.

Not believing all the evidence of nonexistent WMD's

"preconcieved" wars, all too real "conspiracy theories"

Driving ultra guzzling SUV's while denying any effect of air pollution or global warming.

Popping viagra to have sex.

Sleeping pills to sleep.

coffee to wake up.

and prozac to relate to reality.

Listening to heroin addicted Rush Limbaugh.

and people still wonder how a nation could follow a failed artist into WW2 and a holocaust?

Tommy how did hitler rise to power and why?

Did he find a scapegoat the people could turn on so they would look away from the horror of thier own govt.

Dont forget the purpose of the original article.

turn the people on each other

find a scapegoat to feed to the lions.

tell them that they're problems arent due

to the govts actions

No

it is because of "those" people

the _______________ (fill in appropriate race)

are to blame for this nations problems.

Fight them, not U.S.

Tommy,

albeit mach frei

you would have been a model nazi.

i guess "tommy" didnt have anything to say to that........

i understand though.