They came by car.

They came by bus, trains, planes, and simply by walking.

Young, old, and families alike...they came. And afterwards, the debate over "Mexican and Central American immigration" would never be the same again.

In a tremendous show of collective resistance, an estimated 2 million people (police downplay it to 500,000) marched through the streets of downtown Los Angeles to protest HR 4437, the racist "Sensenbrenner Bill", which seeks to felonize and imprison Mexicans and Central Americans (Indigenous People) who are "without papers" on their own continent.

"This is our land, and we're not going!"

The march was the largest in Los Angeles history.

Not only did it fill the downtown streets to capacity, but it overflowed into the nearby freeway overpass area. Thousands waved signs and chanted slogans, as the oncoming traffic passed underneath them.

Attending the history-making protest march were workers' unions, individuals, families, political groups, and cultural groups (such as the Mexica Movement). Moving as one, they marched approximately a dozen blocks from Olympic and Broadway to City Hall, in the heart of downtown Los Angeles. There were as many American flags as there were Mexican flags, and the crowds repeatedly chanted "Esta es nuestra tierra, y no nos vamos!" ("This is our land, and we're not going!")

Whose land? Whose labels?

Almost all media reporting on The Great March of Los Angeles chose to focus on economic-centric rhetoric and sound bites that reflected the Marchers as The Outsiders of this land. The media repeated slogans and shibboeleths like "America was built on immigration" and "Immigrants deserve repsect." However, a visual scan of the marchers clearly revealed that [i]Mexicans and Central Americans are not a people who came via Ellis Island[/i], nor through the The Port of San Francisco. These marchers looked very much like the "Indians" one sees in a history book on pre-European peoples of this continent.

And that's because they are.

The fact that Mexicans and Central Americans are not officially classified as Indigenous People by the United States government attests to the power of definitions. Those who hold the power to name and define can affirm what is true, or they can suppress truth and substitute it with horrendous lies (e.g. WMD's). In the current "immigration debate", what is lost in mainstream reporting is an obvious, "The Emperor-Has-No-Clothing" fact: Mexicans and Central Americans are truly Indigenous People (mixed bloods and full bloods), just as "Native Americans" are Indigenous People (again, mixed bloods and full bloods).

They look like "Indians."

The Great March of Los Angeles has been protrayed an an "immigrant" protest. The underlying assumption is that being White (European descent) and/or speaking in English (which curiously takes its namesake from a foreign land called England) means one is not an immigrant.

Mexicans and Central Americans have been defined from a top-down, White-led government which suggests that anyone who speaks in Spanish (or ever had relatives that spoke in Spanish) is automatically an "Hispanic" or a "Latino."

Curiously, the people termed "Native Americans" (a designation that did not exist until 1913) are never defined in this way, on the basis of language. Most of them speak English, yet they are never labeled as "Britannics" or "Anglos." This double standard of definitions shows an inconsistency in the logic of labels used on Indigenous People of Mexican and Central American descent.

What if 2 million "Native Americans" marched through downtown Los Angeles? Most people would, at first glance, assume them to be Mexicans and Central Americans. And even after it was made clear that they were "Native Americans" (with many mixed-bloods among them), the media would not label the event as "A Britanic March" or an "Anglo Rights Protest."

Mexicans, Central Americans, Native Americans, and Canadian First Nations are actually one people of shared blood, culture, and lengthy history. They also share the same recent history of occupation under European-descent people, with 95% of their populations killed and their lands carved up to satisfy people from Europe. It is a carving and occupation which the Sensenbrenner Bill seeks to reinforce through police-state powers and continued lies about "who these brown people really are."

Words of Mass Deception: Hispanic and Latino

Even a "third generation Mexican-American" is still labeled as an Hispanic or a Latino

Strangely, this is applied even if he or she speaks only English! The Word of Mass Deception (WMD) on the Great March of Los Angeles is the false labeling of the marchers as Outsiders and as "Hispanics" (Nowhere among the marchers was a flag of Spain.) And so the media deception surrounding this march is the notion that these people are "immigrants", that they are Outsiders.

This false labeling is tantamount to labeling "Native Americans" as "Britannic Immigrants" soley on the basis of the language they have been made to speak. The dangerous truth, however, is that the Los Angeles marchers didn't come through Ellis Island or some trans-oceanic continent: they are the Indigenous People of this continent.

And they seem to be waking up to that fact, from Chicago to D.C., from Milwaukee to Los Angeles:

Indigenous People are slowly waking up.

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No puedo creer lo que veo. Como que Mexica Movement? Que yo sepa, no hay ruinas Mexicas en California!! Ya basta de estar 'orgullosos' de ser ILEGALES!! Y aparte, quienes han sido los que han llevado este lugar a su esplendor actual? Los mexicas? Por favor!!!!!! Yo soy hispana, latina, descendiente de zapotecas de Oaxaca o como me quieran llamar. estoy orgullosa de mis raices? Absolutamente si!!!! Estoy aqui como ilegal? Absolutamente NO!!! Si deveras tanto les gusta estar aqui, sigan las reglas!!!! No se jacten de romperlas!!!! Bienvenidos todos los que vengan por la via LEGAL!!!!

GOD BLESS AMERICA

you people do realize that your ancestors were also european, and that it was your ancestors as well that did the robbing, don't you? The only indigenous creatures to either north or south america are the wild animals and the plants.

Let's be honest here. This isn't about the land, this isn't about "white racism" as you so ignorantly put it, but what it's all about is the money. ILLEGAL ALIENS come to this country because they can make more money in America than in Mexico, while enjoying free education, health care, and no taxes. What you should be saying is "thank your for giving us so much when we broke the law by coming to your country." If the U.S. were to give Mexico it's lands prior to the Mexican-American war and cut off all funding to those areas, Mexicans were just still cross their new boarders for America, because that's still where the money would be.

If I was an illegal alien and wanted to become a citizen, I would be outraged at the protests you have led. If the end goal is to be welcomed into this country, then displaying your love of America and love for the opportunity it provides would be much more beneficial to your cause. Instead you have simply outraged many Americans who up to this point probably had illegal immigration low on their radar. However, if your end goal is to remove all the "white nazis" from this country, then I pitty you. It is simply unrealistic, and I feel sorry that you harness so much hatred for the acts commited by men 500 years prior.

Please, do not confuse Americans who want immigration laws enforced with racism. Americans welcome Mexicans who come to this country through lawful manners. We do not welcome Mexicans, Chinese, Syrians, Brazilians, or Englishmen that come to this country illegally. It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with respecting the laws of the country.

You "mexicans" are incredible!! I never would have thought I would be writing a letter like this because I have many "latinos" in my family. My Sister-in-law is "hispanic" as are her three children whom I am very close to! My ex-husband is hispanic making my precious daughter, my LIFE, 1/2 hispanic!!

I have had no choice but to put her in front of the tv and show her the true nature and motives of you. I agree with the message from "Angry"... I am one of those Americans who you have outraged who would have otherwise been helpful and understanding!

Your signs say "mexican, not hispanic, not latino"! That made we laugh out loud, I am sorry to say. It makes me chuckle right now! Are you kidding me? That is a psychodic joke, right? It is people like you who have turned the United States into such a cowardly "politically correct" nation. It is you who said, "Don't call us mexican! That's racist!" "Don't call us latino, that racist. Call us mexicans!" "If you call me mexican or latino, you are racist. Call us hispanic!"

Unfortunately, your protest has done more to make me wary of almost all mexicans, and latinos, and hispanics who are here in the United States! This is a way that I have never wanted to feel about a particular race!!!!

It's sad.

First let me confess that I’m a Cuban immigrant to this country and am therefore biased.

In my view this entire hemisphere need to have open borders, free trade, and transient work/living policies. Most importantly, Canadians and Mexican Citizens should be free to work in the US and visa versa. Labor, like all supply and demand forces, will find its true market value if unrestricted and open to all.

In short, I view protectionism and the laws created to shore up this insane concept as immoral

Cheers,
Justo
www.nugamers.com

....................
they do not even come close
to representing the views of INDIGENOUS PEOPLE either.

I have nothing against any hispanic/latino/spanish/European
for the most part,
excepting all'a the f'n colonialism and hatred against
me and MY NATIVE PEOPLES
over all this time, by which i mean the last 500 years.
and for the mexicans, at least since 1848.

Believe me, their is NO JUSTICE for NATIVE Indigenous PEOPLES in
that sewer called MEXICO.

and they sure as God made little green apples,
have no RIGHT to speak for ME or MY NATIVE TRIBES.

they remain
liars, fakes and frauds
EXPLOITERS OF INDIGENOUS CULTURES !!!!!!
WOOoooWHOOOOOO!!!

c/s
NATIVE FOREVER

Even though I oppose illegal immigration, I was generally supportive of these protest as I'm sympathetic to the economic reasons why people do so, but after having read this article, and to see the reason why there were so many Mexican flags, I am reevaluating the whole thing! It doesn't appear to be about immigration at all.
'our people' this, 'our people' that. I feel excluded by that kind of talk & see it as key ingredient # 1 in the recipe for racist exclusion so a hearty F*ck You to you putos at the 'mexica' movement.

Fact: in San Diego, there are no fewer that 5 casinos operated by native tribes, providing massive amounts of economic benefit to them after so many years of poverty. The Viejas tribe buys a car for tribemembers who turn 16, or so I've heard. You don't see (or even hear) anything remotely close to this in Mexico. Cross the border & the native tribe people of Mexico are the ones selling silver trinkets on the sidewalk, living in shanty towns, and many of them don't even speak Spanish & thus can't even participate in the Mexican economy! Mexico is well known for it's very poor treatment of native tribes people.

F*cking liars. What the hell are they trying to sell?

We come to work hard for a low pay. We are good workers otherwise we would not have a job. We pay plenty of taxes every time we buy something. Many of us pay payroll taxes also. A great american nation needs good workers. The US has plenty of animosity in other countries, why antagonize us if we are such a useful economic factor to this economy? I have grown to know anglos as "primos" (cousins). There are too many reasons to be nice to each other.

Amnesty for illegals is tantamount to erasing any pretense of a nation of secure borders, rule of law and a common language. Amnesty - by any name - does not stop illegal immigration.
I don't believe I need to mention the medical and criminal screening that is involved with legal immigration, or the enormous social costs that illegal immigration causes (from medicare and welfare to as little as having to carry uninsured motorist insurance).
It is obvious that politics are being played to grab the hispanic vote (even though historically hispanic americans have one of the lowest percentage of voter turnout, and even then, vote predominately democratic anyways), but I believe that SOMEONE has to grow a backbone in our congress or senate and stand up for what is RIGHT without the thought of "will I lose a vote?"
I am married to a 1st generation american hispanic (her dad was born in Mexico), and she, too, is ashamed of watching how her culture has responded by demanding that they get their way.
Let us not pander to special interests, and stand up for what is right. Not by allowing amnesty, which allows millions to bypass the other immigrants that are trying to come here legally, who will be shuffled to the bottom of the deck taking more time to become legal and go about it the RIGHT way.
The late Sonny Bono said it best when asked what his opinion was on illegal immigrants. His response? "What is there to talk about... it's illegal".
Concerned American (who would fly an American flag over my german and irish decendent's flag),
Andy

This is very troubling!! Talk about inciting hate, I am absolutely shocked about how much rage this group has. First of all, the “indigenous” People of this continent came her via the Bering Straight.
Basic Premise of the Land Bridge Theory. "Early man reached the western hemisphere approximately 40,000 years ago via the Bering Strait land bridge between Asia and Alaska. This land bridge was created during the Ice Age when the receding water levels uncovered a massive expanse of land over 1,000 miles wide. This fertile land became lush with grasses. It is believed that early man traveled in small groups and followed the migration of herds like the woolly mammoth standing 13 feet high, the mastodon and the giant ground sloth. These large animals were man’s prey and without them they would have starved during the migration."
William Laughlin
They Walked and Boated here from Asia… Some had dark skin, Some light.. Only God really knows!! No one has a exclusive claim to this land, Atrocities have been committed by all peoples… I am a 6th generation American. My Forefathers held one of the largest Spanish land grants in California. The Fernandez owned Almost all of what is now know as San Luis Obispo. I have MANY Grievances against this Government, But my people have given their lives to protect this great country, And the rights of these fools to march under their banner of lies and Foreign flags!! The premise of these protest are false.. Beware, The sleeping giant you are about to awake, Has NEVER been defeated!!!!

These people are conveniently indigenous when it comes to immigration, though I promise you these mestizas are called 'white' by the true natives from where they came. I've been there and was amazed when I first came across it. Their platform is an absurd entitlement device. Another fact of which most are unaware- Mexico had Texas and California for only 12 years before both present states became republics. Mexico had Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona and part of Colorado for 22 years. A few years after losing the Mexican-American war these territories were sold to America by Mexico for 15 million. Alaska was purchased from Russia in 1867 for a little over 7 million. Jefferson was behind the Louisiana Purchase from France. Anyhow, I suppose we may have to produce a receipt for these Latinos, Mexicans, Chicanos or whatever they may want to call themselves. Though, it's not likely they could read it- much less understand the concept (brings to mind the term 'Indian-giver). Anyhow, if these people were to be intellectually honest, they did not come here to reclaim land stolen by Europeans. They came here to for the wealth created by Europeans. Wealth that does not exist and cannot be created South of the border by their own means. Nothing more; nothing less.

If you really were from california we wouldn't be deporting you, you don't see us deporting indigenous "indians" (native americans) to mexico, lets just make everying easy and make it about color, we'd deport you as fast as we'd deport a canadian or a jew, claim that its a race issue, the truth is that the Mexican government has some serious problems and can't support you people, you didn't see any people with Canadian flags, why? because canada doesn't have the problems you do, fix your government instead of trying to overthrow ours, maybe then you wouldn't mind staying in your own country (notice i said country, not land, you guys lost this land fair and square, and we bought lots of it too)

Andrew Linares(note the spanish surname, my mom's a mexican so don't call me a racist)

Now I love my beautiful Mexican brothers and sisters. But these leftwing racist rants do not represent any REAL Mexicans or Mexican-Americans I know. This is typical hateful crap kids are brainwashed with at taxpayer expense by parasite university professors. It has nothing to do with true Mexican culture. For God's sake, can't any of you just THINK FOR YOURSELVES? QUESTION LEFTWING POLITICALLY CORRECT AUTHORITY! And many of those marchers are themselves of European or mostly European origin themselves. Though they try to pretend otherwise. I know a lot of southern Europeans, and they don't look any different from most of those marchers.
Now I am partly of TRUE indigenous blood from a tribe native to what is US territory today. The many tribes of what is Mexico, South America, and Central America, many of which were blood thirsty conquerers, enslavers, murderers, and oppressors themselves (like the Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas), stealing the lands of other tribes, are NOT indigenous to what is today US territory. The Apache, Navahoe, Cherokee, Soix, Comanche, etc etc, yes. But if you are not a member of one of these US tribes, but are from some Central or South American or Mexican tribe, and YOU are here in the US, then YOU are enjoying the benefits of STOLEN GOODS, and are just as guilty as those who originally stole these lands. You can't just enjoy your life here guilt free having had SOMEONE ELSE do your dirty work for you, having had that land stolen FOR you, what you now illicitly enjoy. And the MEXICAN settlers in the Southwest when that was taken over by the US were themselves European, Spanish, colonizers, in any case.
The Mestizos from Mexico came to the US later.
Anyway, whether you like it or not, almost ALL of you have European blood and are as much European as indigenous. And culturally, you are almost entirely European. Even all the leftwing, neo-Marxist jargon, and hate-whitey cant, is of Western European origin.

So just cut all the racist hate, (it hurts the cause anyway), and makes you a BORE. Don't be guilty yourself for what you condemn others. Let's work toward amnesty for all who work and pay taxes and contribute and are not involved in criminal activity. And get on with your individual lives. And learn to love all people whatever their skin color and treat and judge people as individual human beings. Don't lump everyone together. It's the golden rule.
To you haters out there, how would you like it if Spain and other European countries decided to kick out all the MILLIONS of Latin Americans who have immigrated and are now living in Spain and other European countries, saying that those immigrants aren't "indigenous" to Europe? But that is equivalent to what some of you Nazi fake-"Mexicans" are saying.

Bank robbers pay taxes too when they buy stuff. Let's have an amnesty program for bank robbers as well.

http://www.ctj.org/corpfed04pr.pdf

# Eighty-two of the 275 companies, almost a third of the total, paid zero or less infederal income taxes in at least one year from 2001 to 2003. Many of them enjoyed multiple no-tax years. In the years they paid no income tax, these companies earned $102 billion in pretax U.S. profits. But instead of paying $35.6 billion in income taxes as the statutory 35 percent corporate tax rate seems to require, these companies generated so many excess tax breaks that they received outright tax rebate checks fromthe U.S. Treasury, totaling $12.6 billion.


These companies’ “negative tax rates” meant that they made more after taxes than before taxes in those no-tax years.


# Twenty-eight corporations enjoyed negative federal income tax rates over the entire 2001-03 period. These companies, whose pretax U.S. profits totaled $44.9 billion over the three years, included, among others:

Pepco Holdings (–59.6% tax rate)

Prudential Financial (–46.2%)

ITT Industries (–22.3%)

Boeing (–18.8%)

Unisys (–16.0%)

Fluor(–9.2%)

CSX (–7.5%), the company previously headed by our current Secretary ofthe Treasury.


# In 2003 alone, 46 companies paid zero or less in federal income taxes. These 46 companies, one out of six of the companies in the study, told their shareholders they earned U.S. pretax profits in 2003 of $42.6 billion, yet received tax rebates totaling $5.4 billion.

In 2002, almost as many companies, 42, paid no tax, reporting $43.5 billion inpre tax profits, but $4.9 billion in tax rebates.

From 2001 to 2003, the number of no-tax companies jumped from 33 to 46, an increase of 40 percent.


# After 2001, the average effective rate for all 275 companies dropped by a fifth, from 21.4 percent in 2001 to 17.2 percent in 2002 and 2003, less than half the statutory 35 percent corporate tax rate that corporations ostensibly are supposed to pay.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 2

The Size of the Corporate Tax Subsidies

Over the 2001-03 period, the 275 companies in the survey earned almost $1.1 trillion in pre
tax profits in the United States. Had all of those profits been reported to the IRS and taxed at the statutory 35 percent corporate tax rate, the 275 companies would have paid $370 billion in income taxes over the three years.

But instead, the companies reported only about half of their profits — $557 billion — to the IRS. Over the three years, the effective tax rate on the companies as a group was only about half the ostensibly required 35 percent rate.


# Loopholes and other tax subsidies cut taxes for the 275 companies by $43.4 billion in 2001, $60.8 billion in 2002 and $71.0 billion in 2003, for a total of $175.2 billion in tax breaks over the three years.


# Half of the total tax-break dollars over the three years —$87.1 billion — went to just 25 companies, each with more than a billion-and-a-half dollars in tax breaks.

# General Electric topped the list of corporate tax break recipients, with $9.5 billion in tax breaks over the three years.


# In 2002 and 2003, the 275 companies sheltered more than half of their profits from tax.

They told their shareholders they earned $739 billion in those two years, but they told the IRS they made less than half of that, only $363 billion.

The Failure of Corporate Tax Incentives

Legislation adopted in 2002 and 2003 vastly increased corporate write-offs for “accelerated depreciation” and made it easier for corporations to use their excess tax subsidies to generate tax-rebate checks from the U.S. Treasury, at a three-year cost of $175 billion.


Backers of those so-called “incentives” said they would encourage new corporate investments in plant and equipment. But the study finds that they failed to do so

http://www.ctj.org/corpfed04pr.pdf

http://www.ctj.org/corpfed04pr.pdf

Twenty-eight corporations enjoyed negative federal income tax rates over the entire 2001-03 period. These companies, whose pretax U.S. profits totaled $44.9 billion over the three years, included, among others:

Pepco Holdings (–59.6% tax rate)


PEPCO

Providing electric service for more than one hundred years. Serving more than 700000 homes and businesses in the District of Columbia and Maryland suburbs.



Many Utilities Collect for Taxes They Never Pay

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/15/business/15utility.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print


DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, NY TIMES - Many electric utility companies across the nation are collecting billions of dollars from their customers for corporate income taxes, then keeping the money rather than sending it to the government. The practice is legal in most states. The companies say it is smart business.

But some representatives of utility customers say that the practice, which involves using losses from other subsidiaries to reduce taxes owed, is not fair. They say that money that utilities are required to collect for federal and state taxes - typically a nickel on each dollar paid for electricity - should go for just that, or not be included in electric bills.

Otherwise, they argue, these legal monopolies make more than they are authorized to, and other taxpayers have to make up the difference in higher taxes or reduced services.

An examination of regulatory filings by The New York Times shows that companies with electric utilities in at least 26 states have pocketed money intended for income taxes, and that utilities can legally do so in 21 more states . . .

Among the electric utilities whose customer tax payments are not reaching tax coffers is Pepco, serving four states and the District of Columbia. Pepco collected nearly $546 million from customers to cover its income tax bill for the years 2002 through 2004. Yet the parent Pepco Holdings did not pay income taxes during those years; indeed, it received $435 million in tax refunds.

What does the fact that Corporations get tax breaks and thus avoid many taxes have to do with the lack of illegal immigrant taxes being paid? I will tell you. It has nothing to do with it other than to misdirect.

Most income tax is collected from the upper incomes. Most payroll tax is collected from the middle and lower incomes since anything over 90K a year is exempt.

Now are illegals getting paid "under the table" and thus avoiding both income tax (Fed AND State) and avoiding payroll taxes as well? Or are they getting paid as the rest of us and their employers are taking out the appropriate taxes the same for everyone else.

Sales tax we ALL pay so that does not count.

Most are not against immigration. They are against those who enter the country "illegally". Illegal is the key word. Stating events from 100s of years ago is nothing short of misdirection. It is no different than trying to state that someone who frauds the IRS and is illegal is somehow ok since in 1895 no one paid income tax. The two are unrelated. I was born in this country. I am an American. I am not a european. We are not waving our ancestrial flags. That mexican flag is not representative of any of the people who immigrated to this land before the europeans, aka native americans. This land as in the territory of rhe USA.

A 5 year study just came out that was addressing the claim that illegal immigrants take jobs americans dont want. The study concluded that that is not true. That people just keep saying that without checking the actual facts. What they mean is that THEY themselves would not take that job because it undermines our already established labor laws. This is one of the problems that illegal immigration does. The study concluded that 80% of those employed in those jobs are in fact americans and not illegal aliens and thus americans DO want those jobs.

If they use a fake SSN, they will pay payroll, social security, and income taxes. The money goes into an account for taxes associated with bad SSNs. (In other words, we get those taxes, and the people paying those taxes... don't.)

It's not just "illegals" who like to get paid in cash under the table. Pretty much anyone doing a day-job likes that!

> I will tell you. It has nothing to do with it other than to misdirect.


nothing to do with focusing on only one small aspect of the *total tax picture* ?

it's yet another aspect of the victims going at eachother's throats while the REAL tax cheats stand above it all laughing all the way to the bank


the the latest round in _this_ little thread (one of hundreds on this news wire alone) just happened to touch upon that very subject - taxes

my entire thrust is exactly that issue - taxes

yet that's seen as misdirecting.. any lull in the death-throes of the victims going at eachother's throats is percieved as a negative

just as direct calls for peace and understanding (as other posts have pleaded) between "sides" are either ignored or dismissed

one has to ask what psychological function these "wars" really provide in this light - I can't help but notice all the emotionalism these endless thread wars are saturated with

this tends to blind a person to the larger picture

being the *total tax load*


> Most income tax is collected from the upper incomes. Most payroll tax

this is a perfect example - most tax isn't compromised of these, yet these are the two that are focused on (not to mention being skewed - most income tax is payed by what group has the largest numbers - the poor (lower income brackets) simply due to the overwhelming ratio of said group

and when you look at all taxes

income, payroll, sales, utilities, fuel, property, communications, corporations (sorted roughly here by amount) you see that corporate has a much bigger impact than income or payroll

*just a few large corporations alone* skirting their tax burden has the same impact as *millions* of poor people

and since everyone pays the higher taxes of sales, utilities, fuel regardless of their citizenship status (with only a percentage of non-documented skirting income and payroll anyway)

you see by crunching the numbers *yourself* (as opposed to relying on predigested ready-to-swallow "studies" which are statisticly incomplete, faulty & biased)

that the whole tax scale (as far as where concern should be) is reversed

the numbers don't lie (ALL the numbers, not just a subset of them)

statistics are often used to mislead (misdirect) to the advantage of a particular set of values, agenda, group, CLASS

the usual way it's done is to focus on only *selected* aspects of an issue

(here the smallest slice of pie is made out as a life & death situation while the whole pie is ignored)

the very corporations and wealthy who are the *biggest and main tax cheats* (most of the pie) utilize "creative accounting" to do exactly this

just as they "cook the books" to the shareholders and IRS as a *matter of course* they do to us likewise

ask yourself - who has the most to gain from the billions they cheat the economy out of that places even more tax burden on us

- lying about the tax picture is big business, with billions riding on it's success

and the figures when you do even a cursory analysis of the tax picture clearly shows this

I'm amazed that I can spend less than an hour digging and see this while you people spend hundreds even thousands of hours at eachother's throats and *never* see the big picture


but then again this issue being of no personal concern to me gives me a clear head to start with


the really sad part is that this data is readyly availabe on the internet for the harvesting yet no one in the "blame the victim" game seems to find the time to even try to *think for themselves* and are only too willing to accept the feeding tubes from those corporations and wealthy elites that are only too willing to provide them - since they are the main ones who *benefit* from the distraction

if you don't believe me just do the research yourself and you'll see what I mean

you should at least varify the issue before flinging mud of "well you're just trying to distract us"

distract what ?

poor people and close-to-poor people going at eachother's throats for kicks ?

(when you stand on the summit while viewing the BIG PICTURE, the squabbling down below of tiny ants looks mighty petty and unimportant)

but to those ants in their never-ending war any intrusion is likewise attacked along with all other objects in their myopic world view


once more - who benefits from this ?

what do I have to gain from causing a tiny pause in the mud-slinging

what do corporations and the wealthy have to gain from keeping you all distracted by making you think the smallest slice of pie is actually the largest

while they being the largest slice are ignored..

there seems to be genuine bad blood between some near-poor documented and poor un-documented

the puppeteers USE THAT - they feed it, to blind you, distract you and keep you from looking at the whole pie

they keep this "class struggle" going for their own advantage, and the tax picture - when you look at ALL OF IT, confirms it

if the masses were to rise up and have a tax revolt that would be their greatest fear

they keep us atomized and focused on eachother to keep the focus off them

if we allow them to fool us and fail to use our own brains to see through this - really, don't we *deserve* the result ?

being puppets on a string ?


think outside the box - just for a few seconds on this and you'll begin to see the whole pie

and see what part of the pie we really are

I respect the rights of all people to be proud of their heritage, but I wonder why it is that when I see Mexican soap operas on Univision I see a bunch of blonde hair and blued people.

From looking at the protests on the street, I see a lot of talk about indigenous pride, but Mexican culture itself, at least judging by its tv shows, glorifies the 5% or whatever of the population that is of pure European origin.

To an outsider at least, it makes all this talk about "indigenous pride" ring a bit hollow. I think Mexicans need to learn to have GENUINE pride in their own ethnic background before they start lecturing Americans about respecting them.

Mexican tv looks more racist to me than anything you'd see in America.

> a raving Communist

have any [cough] proof to back that up ?

I suppose having the stellar, spectacular, mesmerizingly brilliant calibre personality that you have, dropping an empty overused 50's style pejorative epithet is the most we should expect from you

certainty not address the point - to think out of the box and do a little fact checking on the particulars of the tax pie

as fact checking (datamining) is your nemesis, both on a personal and social level - no ?



> Taliban lecturing us on womens rights?

why - are you a woman Clara ?

Ownership of Spanish-language television and radio has seen serious consolidation over the past decade to the point where there may soon be only two real players in the market.


Univision is mostly owned by the billionaire A. Jerrold Perenchio who is an Italian-American producer who has been involved in such projects as the television series "All in the Family" and the movie "Driving Miss Daisy." The other parts of Univision's ownership team are Mexico's largest commercial broadcaster, Televisa, and the Cisneros Group, a large privately held media company based in Venezuela.

Queston for Jason - do you blame us for Fox's programming ?

> which clearly makes me more 'indigenous' / I have no need to trade on that

[cough] - um - you just did

and the tax pie question - don't worry your "enlightened" self over that - it's not important

endless quibbling about me-me-me is..

jasonabarton:

You're unable to distinguish between Spanish speakers.

The people talking about indigenous pride don't like Univision.

The Mexica Movement site documents some protests they organized against the whitening of Spanish language TV.

http://www.mexica-movement.org/timexihcah/petition.htm

They write: "The Miami control of Spanish language media keeps all Spanish language television networks ”white" (European descent). These networks are the only television that the majority of our people get. The networks discriminate in their hiring practices in giving preference to European descent people in front of the camera, behind the camera, and in the content and point of view of their programming. They impose a racist and colonialist agenda in their programming."

i don't know much about Univision, but they seem to be more bourgeois right-wing than populist left-wing. That station gives more time to the Minutemen than they do to their opponents like Coyotl.

I don't have much knowledge about them but I gathered (from a quick search the results of which I presented above) precisely what you posted and linked to, that they have been taken over by the same elements the best example of which is Fox network

- dumbed down for mass consumption

so Jason's poke at them somehow reflecting on the general populace is unfair..

I'm glad you found more detailed info to add as it shows even more clearly that is what happened

>>Even though I oppose illegal immigration, I was generally supportive of these protest as I'm sympathetic to the economic reasons why people do so, but after having read this article, and to see the reason why there were so many Mexican flags, I am reevaluating the whole thing! It doesn't appear to be about immigration at all.

Suuuure.

There are a million people and you expect them to all have the same, unified message? No way. There was a diversity of positions and opinions at that demo, and it was reflected in the range of signs, speakers, and people.

I don't think the Mexica Movement are even an immigrant-rights group. They seem to be Americans, probably born here.

Sales tax is regressive. The poorer you are, the "more" you pay -- relative to your overall income. A homeless guy with a buck and a dime pays more of his net worth in taxes when he buys a 99 cent doublecheeseburger than a millionaire pays. Same tax, but different impacts.

what's really bad is many corporations don't pay taxes at all or worse take some of our taxes or worst yet charge us extra taxes, pocket them AND get back tax "refunds" from the government (Pepco is the worst example I found - they took 1/2 billion dollars in tax charges on our electric bills, pocketed it, then got another 1/2 billion from the gov, which *also* came from us)

so they double-charged us and paid nothing..


and people are too busy fritting over a poor person paying 1/1,000,000 (one millionth) that amount or not

at worst it's one tenth the problem of just Pepco alone

not to mention the other hundreds of corporations doing it...

the whole situation is ass backwards

and the very corporations and people who own/run them make and keep it that way

maybe TIME could feature Ann in a more honest light

Ann - the shock demon

why the SOS/MM trolls are swarming here

the huge protests *stole the limelight* away from them

they now see just what they're up against - they are but a handful of persons *dumb enough to be puppets* the strings of which are their personal hate (racism)

they now have an extreme case of SOUR GRAPES

their only "salvation" lies in the futile idea that other "mainstream americans" will be as dumb & hateful as they are

the popularity card to prop up their weak as hell position that they've always relied on as a crutch has now become center stage

causing them to scream for attention

but no one's listening and it makes them feel even more desperate

what a shame

You people have just proved to the American people what you are all about, racism.

Keep it up

happening right here right now as I type !



this is pretty cool - we hardly ever get any protests here for anything

these protests really are nationwide !

I have no idea what planet the author claims to be from, but Mexico has a long history of racism against indigenous peoples. Anyone familiar with what Chiapas is about???? Mexico loves to point to indigenous roots, lots of museums and statues, but lets' be honest about the racism inherent in Mexican society vis a vis Indian blood.http://www.indigenouspeople.net/racism.htm To try and call the protest movement against illegal immigration as being an indigenous persons movement is untruthful.

Actually, the present day "native Americans" were not the first to come to the Americas. Anthopological research has revealed that there were successive waves of migrations: Each displacing the former. (Or to use leftist parlance: Slaughtering and stealing their lands.) And interestingly, the OLDEST remains found, like Kenniwok man, are not of the Mongol origen of present day "native Americans". When Kenniwok, and other of these earliest skeletal remains were found, forensic scientists first mistook them for modern Caucasion remains. Kenniwok man actually resembled "Captain Picard" of Star Trek upon reconstruction of his facial features. While some scientists think these first arrivals could have come across from Northern Europe (especially since their arrow and spear heads where of identical make as those of contemporary Northern European tribes), the majority now believe their closest living relatives are the Ainu of Japan, who are the rapidly disappearing indigenous Caucasain inhabitants of Japan.
So what an irony: The very first arrivals to the Americas were a Caucasion people (like many of the indigenous people of Siberia) and they were later wiped out and had THEIR lands "stolen" by subsequent Mongol invaders, the ancestors of the present day so called "indigenous" peoples of America!

You have to know your history a lot more regarding Americans place of orgin in order for you to make an accurate arguement of them not being from Europe (Hernan-Cortez was very much a Spainard from Europe). Also, save yourself from anymore ignorance this is the correct spelling for"AZTEC ".

The use of devisive politics will only work against you.
This movement is not a civil rights movement it is a divisive race based politicized organization.
It is meant to divide people and not bring them together. These people you organized are so easily swayed by your policies and it seems to be no different than a religious Mullah herding in the sheep to be brain washed. Could you be compared to the KKK movement in some ways? Probably.
The Martin Luther King civil rights movement is considered the benchmark on how to bring forth change in the right and just manner.......his people demonstrated with class that deserves respect and more importantly were American Citizens only asking for what ever other US citizen was receiving.
Your organization is trying to get special treatment for Latinos here illegally (with respect to immigration policies) that every other world citizen can only receive by following the current US immigration laws.
Some of your dogma relates to land stolen or taken away from your people.......you must realize that wars and revolutions over thousands of years across the earth have change permanently the borders we live with today around the world.
The American people of Black, European, Asian,Jewish, Persian,Middle Eastern decent are not leaving or planning to give the territories back (This is now what is considered AMERICA and has been for over 200 years). We all as Americans and human race must get along and have no room for devisive politics that will reverse that dream for the human race.
Do you remember Hilter!
Live ,Love,Laugh together.
I Have A Dream................!

2006 - 1848 = 158 years, not "over 200 years".

When MLK protested, he faced a lot of resistance from people who wanted to maintain a two-caste society. They used water hoses to blast kids who protested against Jim Crow laws.

If there's anyone to compare with the KKK, it's the, um, groups that are allied with the KKK, who have come out in support of the anti-immigrant movement. You can spot them in their "Stop Immigration Now" t-shirts.

As for getting special treatment, yes, they are asking for it. The laws already have provisions that allow more Mexicans than other groups. There are also special exceptions for Ireland. These are exceptional situations that require exceptional laws.

The history of immigration has always been about special treatment. One reason why Asians are the smallest ethnic group is because racism guided immigration policy from the 1800s to the 1960s, banning in part or whole, immigration from Asia. These laws were racial, and they were used to strengthen white supremacy in the Americas.

It wasn't until the Black struggle for Civil Rights forced America to be anti-racist that the immigration laws really changed to be fair to people around the globe. Every person of color who has immigrated here, owes a debt to the Black community, because it was them, and their allies, who have fought against racism in this country in the 20th century.

I hate to be a party pooper, but it needs to be said corporations do not pay taxes. The only thing taxing corporations does is raise the cost of doing businees and thus raise the prices we all pay for the goods and services we demand. It doesn't matter whether the business in question is Microsoft or a mom & pop pet shop.

Curt is right.... Corporations do not pay taxes in the material sense. They owe taxes, on paper, but they simply factor the tax cost into pricing, so we pay all the taxes. In fact, ALL taxes are paid by individuals. Corporations don't pay taxes, they only collect them.

The Fair Tax is the way to go.

Ultimately we all have to pay taxes if we have a government. (And if we don't have one, then, no taxes :) ) Corporations pass along taxes, but, that's okay, because people "pass along" their "costs of doing business" too... as in, they eat food, and require wages. If they get too hungry, maybe they'll go burn down a corporation or something, or rip open the doors and take the food.

Payroll and other taxes on corporations are just a convenient way to collect taxes. It's more convienient than sales taxes, which are levied a zillion times, for pennies at a time.

The reason why corporations don't pay taxes is because the government is dominated by corporations, and won't crack down on their cheating. They cut corporate taxes, too, arguing "oh it's pointless to tax them because they won't pay," and encouraging people to feel despondent about catching the crooks. Bush did that a couple years ago, saying it was pointless to tax the rich, because they won't pay. Other politicians have said this too. What cynical assholes.

If they won't pay, take their property. All of it. Give it away immediately.

It may be helpful to remember that it was the Mexican government that invited the white settlers to Texas in the first place. They thought that by giving land grants to the settlers, they would be able to secure their loyalties. Didn't work out that way. The settlers were loyal to the US. This resulted in oppressive actions towards the settlers in Texas. Then came the Texas - Mexico War. Texas won. Mexico lost. The rest is history. What? Are you asking for a rematch?

colonialist mexicans
racist oppertunists
racial strawmen = the Indigenous Perspective ????

...someone is on the road to wisdom..
and now for something completely different...

how about equal rights for
the darkies of mexico, meaning me and other Indigenous populations of mexico(ptoo!)

seriously, its like the last 100 years of human progress never happened there( ask a mexican what is the "Civil Rights Movement of the 20th American Century"??, its unknown, but today its CO-OPTED by
the racists as a strawman,
guess what amigos, WE STILL REMEMBER. )

Dear Madame, would you be happy if everybody call tha American people English just because all of you speak english.
Do you think that a Mexican have the same culture that a Cuban people or a Spanish? Idon't think so
You have to call a cat a cat!!!
In my opinion American people are proud of their ancestry, proud to have Irish origins so respect those who do not have the same as yours!!!
You also have to understand that everybody in the USA do not consider these people the same as you do. Try to understand that it worth the pain to fight for a better future for them in order us to equal just as you said we are all American!

realmente da pena la seguera de las autoridades de inmigraciòn y del estado que parece que viene de alguna enfermedad mental el terror que les merecen las gentes trabajadoras que viene libremente a ser explotado por este systema que junto a muchos otros les aniquilaron sus antepasados les saquearon sus riquezas, hacen promociones bestiales para hacer lo mucho que tiene este pais cuando en los paises de origene de los explotados queda poco que hacer porque todo esta en manos de los "Poderosos" El mundo debe ser una frontera Abierta para todos aunque se debe depurar muchos que vienen con malas intenciones.. Que en vez de alzar paredes que se creen Factorias, fabricas en las fronteras para que muchos que lo que desean es producir para sus familias no tengan que seguir adentrandose en este callejon sin salidad en que nos ponen los intereses creados.

Dear, it realy do not make sense to be proud of beig hispanic irish or wetheaver race you came from . for the simply fact that pride from the race is the base of racisim , pride means you are degrading other races in favor of yoour stupid pride , remember the bible said pride is from the devil . besides you do not did nothig to be white , or white or wath you have it . the people that fougth for this country , always fougth for the wrong reasons , they do not fougth so we can have freedom , they fougth to agrandice theyr poquets with money , this country is not great because the white people is here . it is great because it has so much resources , human incluideed , the illigals are creted for the same goberment that criminalize the act , why dont the goberment guive them the papers? why the cuotas of people acording to races? why? it is an insult to call the people of this continent illigal as the insullt of the patriotic act in the name of security . to judge with bad intention is discrimination

another glorious day in paradise
and the storm still moves over the people

we sit and dream
of a world without the colonialists
racists bigots
...mexicans.

America rises and
smites the evil.

Another glorious day for the Natives.
Amen.
God Bless America.

what tribe you say you're from?

the Mascalin tribe.

corporations do don't 'dominate government' they ARE the government including the total control of its employees, our representatives.
Remember that wealth has more 1st amendment than you.
now I shall deal with the 'disruptor' and provocateur by the name of canat.

Hey canat.
what tribe you say you're from?

On May, when the Hispanic and immigrants from other areas joined forces, we learned that without them out nation is nothing. They pick up the food we eat, and that day labors, farms, restuarants, etc. had to close since no one showed to work! American started when European migrants came for freedom. They do what we don't want to do!

I must laugh, you comment how we couldn't live without you for ONE day when you protest. I hate to tell you but honestly that is far from a good indicator of the American people's abilities. And don't go throwing your racism lines in my direction, it isnt about racism, it's about the sheer stupidity behind the logic of that whole "day without illegals" flop.

In one day these companies were unable to hire replacement American's for you. I bused tables, many of us did in our time, we would and could do it again in a heartbeat.

In one day American's were not able to leave and go to the locations you walked away from to take over these work positions for you. Many didn't know where you worked illegally at to gladly take up your slack and take over your job.

America did not suffer one bit from a day without illegals, life kept going on, stock market didn't crash, people didn't starve to death, no one threw themselves out of windows in horror.

Sorry to disappoint you, but we can live without illegals in America and prosper just fine. Go ahead test us on it, see how we do.

Well im a very proud young girl of my race and a i wouln't trade it for the world. Yes we might have invited the whites into our country, into texas, but who were the ones that were kicking us out?? We were good host and how did they repay us by turning their backs on us on kicking us out of our own country. A lot of whites don't appreciate what we do.. But who are the ones that work their ass off to make their yards look good?? Who are the ones that keep house cleanm, the ones that takes care of their spoiled little brats?? We do they disrepect us by calling "Stupid Mexicans go back to your land" well for their information this is our land and no matter what they do we'll still be here adn we'll die for country

first off, this mess is due to white people and their iggnorant christian views, the massacres of our people, giving us a choice of christianity or death. The reason there are so many illegal immigrants in the US is because all of the natural resources of central and south america have been robbed clean by your government, second this is not the white mans land, never was never will be. Third, yes, we are of european descent, not by choice tho, by rape and murder. Europeans fuck everything up, sorry to say, im half european myself, but atleast i dont deny the truth, ive read books about my people, both sides and have decided entirelly on my own that latinos, hispanics natives however you iggnorant people like to classify us are the victims. Only an idiot would disagree, america is not a place of freedom by the way, its a place of slavery, iggnorance, lies, robotic humans who do what theyre told and cant make descisions by their selves, so they turn to their idiodic presidents or bullshit priests and think that everything is all rite. i would never say that all americans are stupid, but i can say that a majority of them are. Sorry, but its true. either share the land or go the fuck back to europe and go lick the queens pussy and the popes ass. 85% are blind, 10% hide the Knowledge from the Blind 5% try to shine some light. you guys are only racist out of fear, afraid of what you dont understand, they may aswell put the US in a giant dome, to protect you from illegal aliens and "terrorists", wouldnt you all love that?, well fuck you, cause your guvernment is full of puppets who do the talking for the REAL terrorists, the terrorist who send death squads to villages in my country, the terrorists who steal oil from iraq, the terrorists who conquered the americas and killed off the natives with small pox, so before you question the rights of mexicans or central or south americans you should check your history books, why is it that when whites win a battle its a victory, but when the natives win its a massacre? did you know that a high majority of the native population was dead when the europeans arrived because your anscestors were so fuckin dirty that we died of smallpox before you even got here. if you have something to say send me an e-mail and well discuss this more. Peace and Love to every one of every race, aslong as they pass the love around themselves. PS, noone said the white man could come here, so dosn't that make the white man an illegal immigrant?

someone's all fired up!!!!!!!

We welcome anyone to the US. If you however come to the US with a territorial claim to what you have called your homeland, there is nothing for you to find here. If you think I’m wrong, I said otherwise because the country is home to one of several native groups such as the Navajo, Cherokee, Choctaw, Apache, etc. That means the Southwest doesn’t have any connection to the Aztecs. If you are indigenous but not from any of the above races native to the US, you should leave and go back to where you came from. If you have claims of discrimination against the indigenous people, I would suggest you take it to a prominent human rights organization, but they would not take kindly to your hate speeches, which is likened to the way Mexico continued to treat your people poorly; a reason why Mexico and the rest of Latin America were a big disgrace. Say whatever you can, but looking for someone else to blame isn’t going to help your situation.

I'd like to see the U.S. get its talons out of Mexico and the rest of Central America before there's any debate over who belongs here and who doesn't. Both Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan agree that the problem isn't the people--it's NAFTA and other U.S. economic policies. (A Google search will produce joint statements made by Buchanan and Nader on this issue.)

Central Americans aren't abandoning their ancient ways of life, their families, their communities, and their cultures so they can risk death and rape to live in this dysfunctional "society" and work in places like slaughterhouses where they may or may not get paid.