Costa Mesa, CA
January 3, 2006
City Council Meeting

Protesters made a presence at the city council meeting in Costa Mesa, protesting the closing of a day labor center and the vote that allows the police department to enforce immigration laws. Groups that made a presence include Tonantzin, Alianza Indigena-Indigenous Alliance, the Orange County LULAC(League of United Latin American Citizens) Foundation, at least one Anarchist, and various individuals. There was also an A.N.S.W.E.R. protest sign held by a protester. The number of people in this gathering of protesters was estimated to be a couple hundred.

Some demonstrators were also on hand to support Costa Mesa mayor Allan R. Mansoor. They consisted of members of SOS (Save Our State), Minuteman participants and supporters, Jim Gilchrist supporters, Jim Gilchrist himself, Lupe Moreno, Barbara Coe, and Steve Eichler. The number of their participants were estimated to be about 100, outnumbered by their opposing protesters.

The two opposing groups of demonstrators were separated by a driveway into the police station parking lot, in cooperation with members of the police that maintained safety and order. There were no physical confrontations in the area of the protest outside the city council building. There were some arguments between the opposing demonstrators, such as an exchange of words between Minuteman supporter Frank Jorge and an opposing protester.

Members of the press and media were on hand including ABC 7, KCAL 9, Univision, Telemundo, and the Daily Pilot. Often someone was interviewed on video camera while many others, those involved in protesting against the mayor, surrounded to listen.

Someone on the SOS/Minuteman side repeatedly spoke words such as “deport invaders” and “we support the mayor” with a megaphone. They carried American flags, a California flag, signs that supported the mayor of Costa Mesa, and other various signs that are common to their protests/rallies.

Those who protested the mayor carried signs and banners expressing their anger and dissent on the issue of the Costa Mesa police enforcing immigration laws and the closing of a day labor center. There were chants of “What do we want? Justice!” and various phrases in Spanish and some singing with guitar-like instruments and drums characteristic of drum circles.

The Orange County LULAC Foundation had a table set up with information, led by Gilberto Flores, 62, a Vietnam veteran through 26 years of service in the U.S. Air Force. He stated that he’s an American first and in spirit. Among the issues the LULAC are dealing with are discrimination and racial profiling. Flores stated that the LULAC are the oldest and largest Latino civil rights organization in the nation, founded in 1929.

While lining up to walk inside the city council room to attend the meeting, people were told by the police to not being in signs to avoid blocking the view of those inside. An officer also stated that it’s a fire hazard. The officers also didn’t allow any cameras or recording devices into the city council room, a unique decision apparently made for this particular meeting, but members of the media/press were allowed with their equipment.

Among people who spoke in the meeting were Lupe Moreno, Steve Eichler, and numerous individuals from either side of the issue at hand. For those who weren’t inside the room, there was a television placed outside for people to watch the meeting through a live feed. However, the volume on the television wasn’t adequately audible and only those immediately in front were able to hear.

There was an incident when Coyotl Tezcalipoca, an organizer of the protest against the mayor, spoke and asked supporters in the room to stand. This wasn’t allowed by the city council and the situation led to Coyotl being escorted away and arrested. A break from the meeting was called and the audience exited the council room. A man who was inside when this happened said that the meeting may or will be stopped from that point because of the incident. However, chief of police Ron Smith spoke to people outside asking if they can continue the meeting peacefully and calmly, allowing everyone who wants to speak to say what they want to say. Satisfied with the responses, the city council meeting resumed.

Smith stated that Coyotl will have a day in court. When most of the protest participants left after the last speaker spoke, a man (who will remain unnamed) said that Coyotl won’t have to pay a bail fee, but will be required to show up for a court date. That is that latest that is known at the time of this article being published.

When the meeting resumed, more speakers from either side of the demonstrators, as well as those not on a side, spoke at a podium. Two podiums were set up with microphones on either side of the speaking area of the council room where demonstrators spoke on their own sides, those protesting the major on the audience’s left and those supporting on the right.

Kenneth Kelly, 54, stated that he’s not on a side and that this is a “global paradox” with no simple answer. He advised everyone to take a deep breath and decide which side we’re on, costing lives or saving lives. He commended the mayor and asked the audience to not call him a racist.

Scott Sink, 27, was the last speaker and asked what was the problem with people silently standing up, referring to Coyotl’s request for support by standing. He referred to a past incident with Naui, an activist who opposes SOS (Save Our State), stating that he was arrested but exonerated. He said that there’s a multiple variety of people and that citizens don’t fear deportation. After he finished speaking, a public hearing phase took place and much of the audience left the council room.

The one on the lower left is actually a seal on a folder.

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The signs and flags brought by members of SOS, Gilchrist supporters, and Minuteman participants/supporters.

SOS, Gilchrist supporters, and Minuteman participants/supporters.

A large gathering of various people protesting the mayor of Costa Mesa.

The protesters marched to the entrance of the city council building.

Jim Gilchrist made an appearance. Steve Eichler makes a statement.

Those who were outside during the meeting were able to watch on the television.

People line up to attend the meeting.

This was recorded from the television outside.

Audio of a Minuteman supporter who spoke in the city council meeting.

Lupe Moreno speaks at the meeting.

Much of the audio of Coyotl's speech, including the conclusion that led to his arrest. His arrest situation drew a lot of complaints from activists.

Video clip of activists who protested the mayor of Costa Mesa

"We see that to be reasonable. United States should also have troops on the border so we can control who comes into our..."

I'm guessing he said "country."

Those who protested the mayor chant for justice.

Frank thanks mayor Monsoor.

Lots of protesters and protest signs make a presence at the city council meeting.

Barbara Coe, who heads the CCIR, made an appearance.

I arrived at approximately 4:15pm and saw the gathering of Minuteman/Gilchrist supporters and SOS(Save Our State) members. I thought I had a chance to be the first to protest against them, but some individuals across the driveway from them were there already. I went across the road from the SOS/Minuteman people, across the Fair Dr. road itself, in order to stand alone and protest in my own way. I held a few signs such as “I denounce the Minutemen and Minutewomen” and “SOS SUCKS.” My pen stopped working so I put “BRB” on my marker board, displayed it, and went to get another pen from my car.

Upon returning, I spoke with some from the SOS/MMP side as well. I ended up shaking hands with Frank Jorge, I think that’s his last name, the Minuteman supporter with a Cuban background. We shook hands and I briefly explained one aspect of my opposition to SOS/MMP while the SOS cameraman filmed me. I explained the two Stormfront persons(I didn’t name them) being in Jim Gilchrist’s campaign, but I’m sure they won’t put that on their next DVD.

When I returned again across the road in my own spot, a couple of police officers explained to me why they were asking me to standing with the others who were protesting SOS/MMP(and the mayor of Costa Mesa). After hearing their reasons and wanting to be cooperative, I decided to do just that.

I ended up mingling with the protesters(those against the mayor and the city’s decisions) after all but tried to stand in my own spot. But I decided to go around and speak to people as well, including Gilberto Flores. I found it extremely difficult to both protest and report at the same time.

I spoke with some from the SOS/MMP side as well. I ended up shaking hands with Frank Jorge, I think that’s his last name, the Minuteman supporter with a Cuban background. We shook hands and I briefly explained one aspect of my opposition to SOS/MMP while the SOS cameraman filmed me. I explained the two Stormfront persons(I didn’t name them) being in Jim Gilchrist’s campaign, but I’m sure they won’t put that on their next DVD. Border Raven(SOS member) and I jokingly waved at each other. At least he’s not yelling at me anymore.

For the rest of the time leading up to the city council meeting and during the meeting itself, I ended up either walking among those protesting the mayor or standing near the council building entrance to catch anything I can. There was a television set up with a live feed of the meeting(or just set on the local channel, maybe showing the meeting live) and I used my camcorder to catch the audience of some speakers, including much of Coyotl Tezcalipoca’s speech. After his speech, there was some commotion as people rushed to another entrance to the building. That’s when it was found out that Coyotl was arrested.

Lupe Moreno and I exchanged a hug, although my camera bag was in the way. She and Frank Jorge still speak nicely to me. Some other Minuteman supporters don’t. One called me a “dancer boy” when telling me to go to the other side, meaning the side with those protesting the mayor.

When the meeting resumed from a break, I was allowed to attend inside with my cameras in my backpack. Obviously I didn’t get any footage of the speakers from inside because of that.

Outside as people mingled and spoke to reporters and eventually left, some waited for word on what’s happening with Coyotl. They were uncomfortable with me around, not knowing who I was. There was some misunderstandings I had to straighten out.

Again, it was difficult to try to protest and report at the same time. And it would be awkward for others to report while not taking a stance in the issue itself when I used to be on a side. So because of that, I don’t plan on making reports like this anymore. I’ll stick to protesting the SOS/Minuteman people in my own way, not being a member of any group. I may take photos and add them in reply to someone else’s article or if it’s okay, I can post photos and brief descriptions on what occurred.

Speaking of reporting, I’m not sure if anyone else there was reporting for L.A. Indymedia. But for the benefit of Indymedia and the readers here, I hope someone would like to do the reporting. I don’t see myself doing that anymore, at least in this particular issue and anything involving SOS/MMP.

But the reporting was fun and fulfilling for me also and I hope I added well to L.A. Indymedia. Earlier in the day of this event, I wasn’t totally sure if I wanted to come and report or not. But I did anyways. Right now I’m not sure if I plan on witnessing or protesting at any rallies or counter protests on January 7th.

Police captain Ron Smith works things out with the crowd, explaining Coyotl's situation, and asking everyone to be peaceful and calm. At about 0:45 into the audio clip, someone on a megaphone from the SOS/Minuteman side can be heard in the background saying something about "illegal alien invasion." Protesters respond.

Jammer,

i find myself ambivalent about your decision to discontinue future reportings on the SOS/MMP topic as you find yourself conflicted. while i have in the past often enjoyed and appreciated your insights, i find your work to be sometimes sloppy. this report on Costa Mesa serves as a good example. some corrections follow:

1) your quote: "The Orange County LULAC Foundation had a table set up with information, led by Gilberto Flores, 62, a Vietnam veteran through 26 years of service in the U.S. Air Force. He stated that he’s an American first and in spirit. Among the issues the LULAC are dealing with are discrimination and racial profiling. Flores stated that the LULAC are the oldest and largest Latino civil rights organization in the nation, founded in 1929."

my response: that's great that took the time to chat up Gil; he's a great guy to talk with. however, you NEVER verified whether that tabling or letter had anything to do with Gil or LULAC. this is sloppy and irresponsible. if you are not diligent, we can not rely on your information and your readers will come to distrust your dispatches. the fact is that the letter and tabling had absolutely nothing to do with Gil or LULAC. if you had asked the woman tabling or Gil himself, you found have found that out for yourself. and so easily, too.

you do not have an ease in approaching people as a reporter or journalist. there is an awkwardness about you (that may stem from your ideologically conflicted feelings?) that folks really pick up on. perhaps this is what leads them to distance themselves and maybe this is how you came to feel as though "[t]hey were uncomfortable with me around, not knowing who I was" and that "[t]here was some misunderstandings [you] had to straighten out." yo, it could be in part that folks don't know you but you are also painfully, obviously conflicted. it is a risk to to say too much or do too much around someone like you.

2) your quote: "chief of police Ron Smith"

my response: homey, the titles are mixed up. the Police Chief is John Hensley. Smith is a Captain. you take care at times in identifying some of the players but are sloppy to be accurate at other times.

3) your quote: "While lining up to walk inside the city council room to attend the meeting, people were told by the police to not being in signs to avoid blocking the view of those inside. An officer also stated that it’s a fire hazard. The officers also didn’t allow any cameras or recording devices into the city council room, a unique decision apparently made for this particular meeting, but members of the media/press were allowed with their equipment."

finally, i am glad you brought this up. this older white guy sitting front row, first seat closest to the center aisle on the side of the MMP, was filming. he had a handheld camera. he did not appear to be press/media and focused much of his filming on the other side of the room where people who did not support the city's proposal sat for the most part. he was sitting next to a woman wearing a read shirt. does someone have a photo?

so okay, Jammer, best of luck. you are young, conflicted, and in need of fitting in someplace. may you one day be comfortable in your own skin.

thank you for all your work.

I think you're being very over critical of my reporting.

"while i have in the past often enjoyed and appreciated your insights, i find your work to be sometimes sloppy"

I think this is like the third report I've done in my whole life. Sorry! Hey I'm not a professional but neither are a lot of people reporting for Indymedia.

"however, you NEVER verified whether that tabling or letter had anything to do with Gil or LULAC. this is sloppy and irresponsible. if you are not diligent, we can not rely on your information and your readers will come to distrust your dispatches. the fact is that the letter and tabling had absolutely nothing to do with Gil or LULAC. if you had asked the woman tabling or Gil himself, you found have found that out for yourself. and so easily, too."

Boy are you a nit-picker! Gil had his folder on the table. I do remember others using the table too. What's the big deal with the table anyways? So the thought "OMG it's a table!! I need to find everything about this table!!!" didn't occur to me. Big deal. I think the more important part was Gil and the LULAC.

"you do not have an ease in approaching people as a reporter or journalist."

Well yeah and I already explained that in my view, separate from my report. But I did have plenty of material that I posted, photos, footage, I have more if you want. Aren't we supposed to report news with a critical eye anyways? I would expect nothing less with people reading my stuff.

"there is an awkwardness about you (that may stem from your ideologically conflicted feelings?)"

You don't know my exact ideological views and how would you know if I'm conflicted? I'm not searching for a team or group to join. I'm not a part of a group. Excuse me for interacting with people. I've seen plenty of other published material here that seem to come from a casual narration.

"it is a risk to to say too much or do too much around someone like you."

I understand if you feel that way, simply because you don't know who I am. And after last night, I don't plan on interacting with your group anymore. I'll protest SOS/MMP in my own way. I'm not out to get sensitive information. I've been invited to things like the ANSWER meetings and such, but I don't need to go to those. I'm not interested in a participation level.

"my response: homey, the titles are mixed up. the Police Chief is John Hensley. Smith is a Captain. you take care at times in identifying some of the players but are sloppy to be accurate at other times. "

I got the words "chief" and "captain" mixed up, the important part is that I got the name Ron Smith. Sorry I'm not an expert on terms like chief, captain, general, or whatever. Would you rather I just not do this whole report and keep all of the photos and footage to myself? Exactly who else is going to do a report with photos and footage to this extent?

"finally, i am glad you brought this up. this older white guy sitting front row, first seat closest to the center aisle on the side of the MMP, was filming. he had a handheld camera. he did not appear to be press/media and focused much of his filming on the other side of the room where people who did not support the city's proposal sat for the most part. he was sitting next to a woman wearing a read shirt. does someone have a photo?"

Yes I saw that too. But that was in the later part of the meeting, after the arrest incident. I didn't bother mentioning that in my report, but it's not like I stated the opposite. I did say the police didn't want us to have cameras inside. But I didn't say in my report that not a single person used one afterall. I saw that, so what.

"so okay, Jammer, best of luck. you are young, conflicted, and in need of fitting in someplace. may you one day be comfortable in your own skin."

I'm young, but I don't see myself as conflicted as in confused or whatever. I'm not looking for a place to fit in, especially in regards to this particular issue. I know exactly what I'm doing. I feel very comfortable in my skin as I am now.

"thank you for all your work."

Yeah thanks for highjacking it with your nitpicking.

"Aren't we supposed to report news with a critical eye anyways?"

I meant "read" instead of "report." Meaning I thought we're supposed to read news with caution, even speculation if you want.

Besides, in the audio clip of CAPTAIN Ron Smith, I refered to him as CAPTAIN.

Hey Cliff, how about your report of the CM PD asking you to leave?

This is a great effort on your part, to cover the event, and present it in an un-biased and factual manner.

I like the idea of the sign montage, as it allows everyone's signs to be seen and their message is shared.

You did a lot of work gathering all of this information and then presenting it, well.

I made some audio recordings and sent them to Watchdog last night.

The people need the facts, then they will make the decisions.

Great multimedia report; photos, audio, video and text. You got it all. This is what LA-IMC is all about.

Thank you.

MM are allowed to stand. Activist ARRESTED for asking Tonantzin, Alianza Indigena-Indigenous Alliance, Lulac to stand.

MM side gets camera in the front row. Counter protestors--no cameras allowed.

200 people come out and say "no" to police-as-border-patrol. Mayor Mansoor says, "The public has been demanding this."

CAN YOU SAY RACIAL TARGETING?

Were any of the rascists that attended non-whites?

Also did any of them bring their Nazi or Confederate flags this time?

Hi
I'm the "middle aged white guy" who was filming at the council meeting. A few points:

Yes I was told that I can not videotape from a very polite uniformed CM officer. My response was a very polite Oh-yes-I can.

Under the sunshine act in California ANY meeting open to the public is just fine for ambient light recording. subject to sensible fire laws and the like. Exceptions are courtrooms, some restrictions on taping minors, and taping copyright materials. And thats about it.

The officer was very nice and as nicely as I could I asked him to check with his supervisor or legal council. He left and about 5 minutes later he came back and shrugged at me ( on camera).



The middle aged white guy who
also happens tp be a minuteman.

"I like the idea of the sign montage, as it allows everyone's signs to be seen and their message is shared."

I thought maybe there's people who wanted to attend the event but weren't able to. I know of one who had to work that night but would probably have been there otherwise. One of my ideas was to get photos of all the signs I can from both sides of the protest so readers here can still see the statements they made.

"Great multimedia report; photos, audio, video and text. You got it all. This is what LA-IMC is all about."

Thanks! I know little errors like misreporting something not that significant like a table on the sidewalk may happen. But I was focused on people, what they were saying, and using photos, footage, and audio to try to recapture, to a certain extent, what it was like to be there.

"Also did any of them bring their Nazi or Confederate flags this time?"

I didn't see any there.

"There are over 150 MILLION AMERICANS on Barbara Coe's side. "

There many be that many who share Barbara Coe's view or share her side of this issue, very generally speaking, but I'm not sure if that many people have heard of Mrs. Coe or the CCIR.

"Under the sunshine act in California ANY meeting open to the public is just fine for ambient light recording. subject to sensible fire laws and the like. Exceptions are courtrooms, some restrictions on taping minors, and taping copyright materials. And thats about it."

Hey thanks for stopping by and adding that. I was aware that at least one person inside, other than reporters, used a camera afterall. But like I said, it's not like I said "and therefor, NO ONE used a camera inside." I just didn't mention that someone did anyways just like I didn't mention every single thing I saw and experienced in every single moment of this evening. I wasn't aware of what you knew, about the "sunshine act" but I'm aware now and will remember that. Thanks.

Lupe Moreno is calling herself "Mimbreno" here on LA Indymedia. She claims to be Apache, you know.

What she is, in any case, is the moral equivalent of a
hang -around - the - fort sell out, and worse. She is a childish, whining, hate filled creature, as evidenced by the "quality" of her posts here - and not a fit representative of the Mimbreno Apache Band.

If in fact she is Apache - and I see no reason to dispute her claim on its face - then she would have been one of the Apaches riding with Crook, Miles and Gatewood to hunt Geronimo down.

She is certainly no Lozen, however she might fancy herself.

She has taken the side of those who now keep Geronimo's skull - having stolen it as a cannibalistic trophy of war.

In the meantime, she paints other people of Native descent as "savages," and adores her white conqueror.

Just another day in Indian Country.

Oh my, Jim Gilchrist, who was at this event and involved in this, just emailed me right now and called me a "kook."

Well, Jim speaks the truth!!!!

Well, I see a lot of insane personal attacks that avoid answering the question. So I'll ask it again:

Were there any non-whites present among the SOSMM et al. crowd?

From what I saw, there was Lupe Moreno and Frank Jorge. Not sure who else unless I missed any. Some of the guys at their NBC protest were not there last night.

The other side had a majority of people with a Mexican or otherwise Hispanic/Souther Americas background. It is characteristic of the community that is being affected afterall. But they also had plenty of supporters of various ethnicities.

Okay, thanks! It;'s good to see a calmly rational person answering questions.

Thanks. My intent was to provide information, and media, on what happened last night. I wasn't out to make anyone look good or bad with bias and like I've said I've stepped back from the issue itself. I'm okay with observing and Kenneth Kelly, who spoke at the council meeting, stated the same of himself as well. He's concerned and yeah I'm rather concerned still as well.

It still seems weird to others for me to do this after being on a clear side and I understand how that looks. So if I stick with providing media, I can do that and cut back on mingling and talking with people which could have others mistake me for a member of a certain group.

I was a little frustrated at first by the reply by "yourhomey" but I'm over it and I can still take it as constructive criticism, I think they call it. Point taken.

Actually I should say "thank you" for _all_ of your good coverage so far.

I look at the SOSMM et al. in much the same light as I look at the Hollocaust deniers -- at least in the arena when the Holocaust deniers claim to not be racists or religious bigots. The motivation for denying the Holocaust are almost always racist or religious despite what deniers repeatedly demand, and it seems to me that they share the same attribute as the SOSMM crowd when they deny they're not racists.

Of course SOSMM et al. membership or self-identity is going to be a mixed collection of people driven by different ideologies so I'd expect that a percentage -- a minority, to be sure -- actually are against illegal immigration.

What I'm also seeing is an alleged illegal immigration "movement" that is so tainted with Nazis and neo-Nazis and other white supremacists that I'm always amazed that _honest_ people don't walk away and stop associating with the tainted people.

If I felt the need to oppose illegal immigration for some reason, I'd certainly not join up with groups that have Stormfront, National Alliance, Aryan Nations, KKK and so forth as part of their membership. I'd find an honest, serious anti-illegal immigration group to join and/or support.

What's also curious is the number of non-whites that ignore the taint and stick with it despite all reason. That reminds me of the Jews that worked with Nazi Germany -- probably on the supposition that in so doing they were safeguarding their own lives. And I note that there are Jewish Hollocaust deniers out there.

My opinions only, of course, and only my opinions. And I thank you for lending some rational, thoughtful feedback and reportage about the subject -- from all sides of the issues.

Jammer
Had Istood up in rightous anger when told to turn off the camera, I would have been likely treated much differently. It is the fine art of demanding your rights without sounding so demanding. The officer was trying to be polite but firm. I was very very polite but also firm quoting the sunshine act, book line and verse, even having a copy of the act where it specifically mentions city council meetings, never trying to challenge his authority while telling him no, I will not be turning off the camera. I apoligised for the bother and kept right on taping

Most likely he was not aware of the act since I doubt most of them are in council meetings much.

And that is why I filmed the speakers the audience and pretty much everything and everybody including the arrest. Oh and most especially those that complained to the police about my taping. Not my race just my attitude.

Exactly! It's obvious that the Minuteman thing is attracting racists of the white supremacist/nationalist sort. We've seen that with SOS in photos of past events. A question, out of a number of them, would be if they really are clean from racism, how much effort is there in keeping the racism out?

My speaking out isn't just about stating what I saw. It's also about calling for answers. When I saw I'm comfortable, I mean it because I've stopped being fed information and views from one extreme(or at least strong) side in a one-way feed and started questioning.

And yeah, if I were to do something about immigration against immigration laws, I would decline to work with the Minuteman people, Gilchrist, SOS, or CCIR. Surely they're not the only ones involved in the general issue. I'd hate to have to thank white supremacists and their type for anything.

The above reply was to Frederic. Now to "white guy." When I was across the road standing alone to do my own thing, two CM officers asked me to stand where the protesters opposing the mayor were. Even after I explained that I'm not a member of that group. I wanted to be solo. I explained that I knew they were asking and not demanding or requiring me to stand with the others. But they did explain the safety issue, the possibility of someone driving by and throwing something at people. I at that point, I decided to comply. I'll remember your situation next time I feel the need to video tape or record a public meeting.

"I'd hate to have to thank white supremacists and their type for anything."

I should have separated that in its own paragraph. I'm not implying that all people in the mentioned groups are white supremacist types.

If the ORGANIC Collective held a anti-illegal-immigrant/close the borders rally, I'd be there.

If the the National Council of La Raza held a anti-illegal-immigrant/close the borders rally, I'd be there.

If M.E.CH.A. held a anti-illegal-immigrant/close the borders rally, I'd be there.

But, I don't think I'd be there, if the Mexica Movement held a anti-illegal-immigrant/close the borders rally.

:)

BR

Not to be forward, but what if the National Alliance held a meeting for that as well? ;-)

Also I'll state for the record that while I denounce the Minuteman Project, I'm not opposed to citizen border watch in general. Keywords are "in general." I'm not joining any and it's not my thing and I'm not advocating for it or against it. And I'm on good terms with the California Border Watch, formerly California Minutemen. I won't participate in actual border watch unless there's a sure way that I can focus solely on drug traffickers and possible/probable terrorists. Generally speaking, I support the idea of opposing drug trafficking and terrorism.

Like I said, I'm concerned about the issue itself and have a personal issue with Gilchrist/Minuteman participants. And I'd be up for seeking more and more understanding of those who came here against immigration laws. I'm not advocating deportation, nor am I advocating amnesty. I just wanna learn a thing or two.

Video of the arrest and much more!

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?page_id=531

I was shocked at what a poor speaker Benito is, hesitant, unsure, unfocused, confused.

"What I'm also seeing is an alleged illegal immigration "movement" that is so tainted with Nazis and neo-Nazis and other white supremacists that I'm always amazed that _honest_ people don't walk away and stop associating with the tainted people. "
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Well that is because we aren't going to be dissuaded from saving our state and country by fools on any side of the issue my dear Frederic rhetoric. You are getting somewhat psychotic I think, as you are seeing nazis everywhere much like methamphetamine users see witches and demons when they reach the mind numbing levels that go with abuse. Give it a rest before they start coming to take you away ha-ha..ho-ho...he-he.
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"My opinions only, of course, and only my opinions. And I thank you for lending some rational, thoughtful feedback and reportage about the subject -- from all sides of the issues."
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You silver tongued old devil you. Have you gotten to second base yet?




My opinions only, of course, and only my opinions. And I thank you for lending some rational, thoughtful feedback and reportage about the subject -- from all sides of the issues.

The video clips WatchDog has on this website are good and quite complete it seems. Especially with video of the meeting itself. I know he's on the SOS side, but as long as the video clips are complete and unedited, I'd be interested in viewing them.

On the other hand, if anyone here's seen the videos produced by Lucca Zanna, they're god-awful. He has video of meetings with people in Jerry Lewis(Congress person)'s offices but edites in burping sounds and other sound effects and silly music. His latest video has some guy in a historical minuteman costume hat making it look like a complete joke.

Lucca also emailed me and told me to go f*** myself. :-)

Lucca, your song "Boycott France" sucks. If I see you at a protest rally, I have an Un-boycott France sign for you. And a flag of France as well, full size.

I wouldn't rely on my report here for a complete story on this issue. I was just covering what happened on that day.

There's a video clip on that WatchDog website
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/media/costamesa/bad_2.wmv

I think it's worth watching. From what I saw, it looks like the police had Coyotl a.k.a. Benito agitated. He stood and said "don't touch me" at least one or two times. Some guy got in the way of the camera a bit and I saw Coyotl look to the right and down or something, and all of a sudden the police took hold of him and brought him out of the room. I can understand if that put some of the audience in a panic.

I'm not exactly sure what to make of the singing at the end of the video clip. It looks like someone was singing a "we shall overcome" song, then others sang "God bless America." Not sure if it was a singing protest duel, but if it was, it shows that both sides have people reacting with emotion. This is a serious issue.

>Hope the violent ones don't get into the picture!
>For you open border people's sake!

That smells like a threat of violence.

The irony is that this "border watch" garbage in California was, back in the 1970s, organized by the KKK and Tom Metzger (who broke off and later formed the White Aryan Resistance hate group). Those are unrepentantly violent people, particularly Metzger, whose former organization once lionized WS gangsters who killed an African man in Oregon. (This isn't hearsay - I read a bunch of copies of the WAR paper that gloated about these two things.)

The Minutement, Cal BP, FOBP, and all the other copycats are following in their footsteps.

Watch out where you step. Before you know it, you might catch the disease, and start to walk, smell, and sound like a duckkk.

He was emotional and trying not to cry.

His time ended.

He was told to leave a couple of times.

One cop, jumped from the blind-side and made Coyotl a.k.a. Benito, comply with orders.

What you saw was police training, in action.

They restored order.

I am Native American, and they haven't deleted my posts. And, I am also not ignorant of my connection to other peoples of the Americas. This Mimbreno or Lupe or whatever he/she is is obviously a victim of manifest destiny and white supremacy like many Native Americans who have suffered throught poverty and ignorance as a result of the colonization of this land.

First of all, there was no such thing as the Americas until the white man came. There was no such thing as borders. Hunter-gatherer tribes claimed territories for subsistence and survival, which at time brought them in conflict with other tribes, but then Anglo Saxons and other Europeans, including the Spanish, started to wipe them all out to steal land, claim private ownership, and establish formal boundaries.

Second, Mexicans are descended from Northern American tribes, such as the Comanches and other groups that existed in the Southwestern portion of the U.S. and migrated south into Mexico. Some of them, such as the Mexica, established sedentary societies.

Apaches moved down into Chihuahua, first to avoid the conflicts between different tribes, then to escape oppression by Anglo Saxons. That is why when you go to southern Arizona, New Mexico, and El Paso, Texas, as well as Juarez and the capital of Chihuahua, you will see alot of Mexicans who look like Apaches or basically are Apaches passing as Mexicans. This was necessary since if you were Mexican, you could in some sense be "protected" by assimilating into Mexican society. If you were Apache, you were a dead man, unless you accepted conscription into the white man's army, like the Apache Scouts. My grandfather chose this path to survive before moving to El Paso, but he never forgot his Apache roots and history, nor his connection to the Mexicans who gave him a sense of place and belonging.

The reason why this lupe person's posts have been removed is because they are ignorant and uninformed, and sound like a front for someone just trying to validate the white supremacist position of the anti-immigrant movement. This is nothing new, given the history of the conscription of southwestern tribes into the U.S. armed forces, where one can easily be indoctrinated into thinking like a redneck. Several years ago, if you traveled through the town of Ruidoso, near the Mescalero Apache reservation, you would see alot of confederate flags. Its not like that anymore. The Mescalero Apaches still have their annual ceremonial in July, which includes a rodeo for our Anglo friends, but excludes them from the Dance of the Mountain Gods.

Maybe lupe/mimbreno or whoever, should visit my people's land in Mescalero, where you can go to the Inn of the Mountain Gods and see Apaches, Mexicans, and Anglos all living together in peace. Maybe this person should pick up a copy of Stannard's "American Holocaust" or even Paula Gunn Allen's "The Sacred Hoop."

The great spirit never created borders.

benito, you sorry wannabe.

this has got to be one of the MOST HILARIOUS EPISODES yet!!!!!
some dummy whiteguy(xicano/mesica/mexican/spanish/european/etc)
wasteing everyones time with his
nonsense ranting raving
about the aztlan LIE....

LLoooooLLLLL !!
next he'll be saying that meicans disovered america..!!

wait, I forgot that he already said that.
maybe he'll claim that he invented the internet....

meccalaro
your stuff is not too bad
but not too good either.....

We are apache killers from WAY back, (true natives know what i am saying)
and you should KNOW damn well
that THE mexican lie will ALWAYS
be just that , a LIE.

too bad your folks gave up...
As for the REST of us NATIVE FOLks
the STRUGGLE CONTINUES.....

If you would have taken the time to STUDY
the current BORDER SITUATION
you may have understood that
we are still facing the
SAME BRAND of RACISM and
OPPRESSION from the european power base
that still exists in MEXICO.

dont get me wrong,
America has its own story...
but the story of America is one of
HOPE and Evolution from colonial standards( which is POLICY even NOW, 500 yrs later, in MEX.)
REVOLUTION, LAW of EQUALITY
JUSTICE and BROTHERHOOD..

show me how mexico has EVER treated
me and my TRIBAL PEOPLES
there..?
from the period of spanish expansionism
to mexican colonialism..
till today WITH
xicano coopitization?
the ATTEMPTED HIJACKING of the INDIGENOUS STRUGGLE
by COLONIALIST POLITICKERS
seeking to STEAL NATIVE IDENTITES?????

HELL NO!
We have not come this far in the fight
to see it stolen by some two-bit shysters,
shucking and jiving about
aztySHAM and 'evil gringos"...

REAL EYES
REALIZE
REAL LIES amigos...
c/s
( "c/s" was a device intorduced the
the COLONIALIST pochoncha
as a ending to his(?)
diatribes about his reconquista fantisizing.
supposedly meant " cant be changed"
i use it as a further, to speak in the
minds of such colonialists.)

> Lucca also emailed me to go...

Yes, I've noticed that there's a distinct mentality among the more rabid anti-Mexican arena cmotrasted to those who oppose racism. It's pretty telling to observe the message postings into this forum, in fact. The anti-racists post calmly rational, thoughtful, reasoned messages and comments while the SOSMM et al. types launch off into personal attacks and cussing. }:-}

Remember Richard "The Dick" Cheney and his proclamation that the investigative Senator "go fuck yourself?" There's certainly a Republican mindset among the racists.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

"Watch Dog" is Hal Netkin. Yes, that same racist old man who ran over peaceful protestors at Garden Grove with his SUV last year and got AWAY WITH IT!
Of course, the cops aren't going to give him shi* for disobeying their "orders". However, we can cite the Brown Act, and the sunshine provisions, and any public meeting "laws" as calmly as we can but orange county cops are STILL going to drag us off to jail and charge us with "obstructing a peace officer" if we don't immediately do what they say, and force us to sort it out in court at OUR expense.

"Ayatolla Gondola" is Davey Anthony Rodrigues of Sacramento, CA
Yes, he's MEXICAN.
Like Membreno/Lupe Moreno and Vince "Spillz" Estrada, another classic case of self-hatred.
So sad. : (

Hey 1st Hand Source, what planet are you from? The above mentioned are good American patriots no matter how much you think they hate themselves.

Hal Netkin, not even close.....

Here is the story. Under the guise of ownership people who have no ownership rights are trying to take from those that do. Whatever your history says, that's still 500 years ago and today the norte Americano will not subjegate it's full and sovereign rights to it's nation.

A nation the belongs to many people who have come to assimilate and educate themselves into a better standard of living. Out many one. It's on our money you like so much.

Keep the race baiting language, it's funny as hell and the proud boasting of who you think you are, only shows the world that illiterate people need special classes and more years of school before they can be allowed to mingle with a peaceful, law abiding society.

I'm this, your that..fucken stupid. Go back to Europe...whaaaaaa I'm hurt. I'm still here and going nowhere soon. You have grievences take then up with Vicente who is have Irish and Spanish... But for you Mexica Nationals Fuck you.

You have posted individuals first and last names.

Why would you do that? If anyone - who is not a public official - wants his or her first /last name published I would think the individual should make that decision, 1st hand.

I am very disappointed in you.

It was not nice of you.

However, 1st Hand, very interesting to note that the Americans you exposed have Hispanic last names!!!

VIVA AMERICAN hispanics!!!!

To all American Hispanics/Asians/African Americans/Native Americans/Middle Eastern Americans we say WELCOME!!! JOIN US!

thank you minowoman
i mean no offense to anyone,
seeking in my own way a level field
for all to share
...
the Natives are restless
and we forget NOTHING
not standing for any LIES
about our cultures
..
peace to all who come in Peace
and you know what
the others will get..
..
God Bless ALL Americans
and all of humanity
Respect for those who have respect

You state that MM were allowed to speak while the man who got arrested was not at the CM CC Mtg.

We are guaranteed the right to PEACEFUL assembly. This concept of course is open to interpretation.

There is protocol, respect and so on that is followed at ALL city council meetings.

It was determined that PEACEFUL assembly was being infringed upon by this man. This speaker was clearly disrupting a meeting that was ATTEMPTING to move along as smooth and as peacefully as possible.

If this man wishes to address people in his own manner - and have standing ovations etc, then he needs to choose the appropriate location.

Ultimately, he may achieve more in the long run if he can learn to express himself BUT remain within the established norms of our society.

The SUV incident in Garden Grove was mentioned here. I wasn't at that event and didn't witness this incidnet in person. But I'm not sure if anyone got "run over." Run into maybe, but I doubt anyone was run over as in a vehicle's weight on top of people. Otherwise whoever was "run over" would have been killed by the vehicle's weight or seriously injured.

Still, being run into by a vehicle is serious and again I don't know all the circumstances surrounding the incident.

That incident in Garden Grove is still being talked about? Put it to rest. No one was hurt. Watch the video of the goons, they lie down and "play dead." You people are liars.

http://keepstuff.homestead.com/NetkinAnsweresOsborn5620.html

Do you have to comment on every single post? I mean, you weren't there, don't know a thing about the subject, aren't sure of the details, but you couldn't control your urge "weigh in" on the subject as if everybody is just waiting to see what Jammer CC's take is going to be.

Comment on every post?

Hmm, sounds just LIKE YOU Jammer....
lol

That's who I was talking about OC, get with it.

Hey what's the deal here? I just saw the words "run over" and I wanted to say that if they were actually run over like speed bumps, wouldn't we hear about hospital visits and medical bills? I already stated I wasn't there. Someone else already mentioned this incident.

I found this on another message board, so I thought I'd post it here. If it's okay with Pete Nice of course.

_______________________________
COLLECTIVO TONANTZIN’S RESPONSE TO ARREST OF COYOTL TEZCALIPOCA - TODAY @ 6 pm!
by your witness Thursday, Jan. 05, 2006 at 3:48 AM


Collectivo Tonantzin and supporters will hold a press conference to address concerns about the arrest of Coyotl Tezcalipoca and state of affairs in Costa Mesa.

F O R I M M E D I A T E R E L E A S E

COLLECTIVO TONANTZIN’S RESPONSE TO ARREST OF COYOTL TEZCALIPOCA AT COSTA MESA CITY COUNCIL

On Tuesday, January 3, approximately 100 people, including members of the Tonantzin Collective, converged upon the Costa Mesa City Council’s decision to train city police to enforce immigration law. The measure was approved by the Council on December 7, 2005. Costa Mesa will be the first city in the United States to merge police and immigration duties.

The proposal raises concern among Mexicans and Central Americans throughout Orange County. Brown-skinned people will be subject to racial profiling, based on appearance and surname. The measure will also erode relations between immigrants and police, as immigrants will fear reporting crimes. Furthermore, vigilantism may increase, as residents may attack and harass people they believe to be undocumented.

During the last council meeting, Coyotl Tezcalipoca, a member of the Tonantzin Collective, was arrested during public comments. After innocently requesting the audience to stand up in support of immigrant rights, Mayor Allan Mansoor cut him off before his time was up. Before he had a chance to leave the podium, several police officers surrounded him and forcefully took him into custody, violating his right to free speech and assembly. Video footage taken by a Spanish language television station shows a police officer kicking him while on the ground. On the other had, supporters of the Mayor’s proposal were not subjected to the same kind of treatment when they did the same thing.

A press conference will be held today at Costa Mesa City Hall:

WHEN: Thursday, January 05, 2006

TIME/WHERE: Press conference begins at 6 PM at the Costa Mesa City Hall
77 Fair Drive, Costa Mesa

Speakers will address the following issues: 1) the re-opening of the day labor site, 2) the withdrawal of the vote that will give power to certain police officers
to enforce immigration laws, 3) the recall of city council members who voted for the closure of the day labor site and the proposal that will give power
to police officers to enforce immigration laws, and 4) that all criminal charges be dropped against Coyotl Tezcalipoca.

Press contacts:

Coyotl Tezcalipoca (714) 235-0801
Humberto Caspa (949) 929-7353
Rosalinda Ramirez (714) 458-8233
_____________________________________

I'm assuming those phone numbers are okay to post since it's for press contacts. It was in the press release.

I called Mrs. Ramirez, it's for real. It's happening in like 45 minutes I guess.

Silly me, it was already posted on Indy. Sorry bout that.

Oops!!!
Rough day!!!

error

First hand source.....yeah!
Maybe try OUTsourcing to a real partner and while your at it learn to read and write.
My name is Davi, not Davey;
And it's Ayatollah, not Ayatolla

So stop with the hand for a while and pay attention to detail.

Oh, and get a license before you start practicing psychology. ......
self-hating.....oh boy.

>My name is Davi, not Davey;
>And it's Ayatollah, not Ayatolla

Uh......whatever.
You SOSers are so thoroughly infiltrated by us it's laughable. ((:- O )
Hey Dave, comin' down for the protests Saturday? See you there! ;- }

Make sure to look for me tomorrow 1st hand source. I'll be the pretty one.
But don't ask me to shake hands, since I know where yours has been.

InfilTRAITORS you say........?