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Glendale: Jornaleros Victorous!

by Leslie Sunday, Dec. 11, 2005 at 8:50 PM
leslie@radiojustice.net

Anti-racist, anti-fascist groups and individuals came together in Glendale in a mighty display of cooperation and support for day laborers and to shut down a weakened Save Our State.

Glendale: Jornaleros...
workersforhire.jpg, image/jpeg, 210x360

Joe Turner arrested

GLENDALE, December 10, 2005--Seventy-five determined day laborers with 150 allies defended their brethren at the Glendale Temporary Skilled Worker Center this morning from a protest by Save Our State, a San Bernardino-based anti-migrant group. SOS had called the demonstration to turn public sympathy against the workers, but only managed to bring out about twenty supporters. SOS was overwhelmed in the sea of counterprotestors, and passing motorists along the busy San Fernando Road throughway honked their support for the jornaleros throughout the morning.

The only violence of the day resulted in the arrest of Joseph Turner for misdemeanor assault after he forcefully pushed a protestor. He was led away by police at 8:20 a.m.

When Save Our State members began appearing at 8:00 a.m., they were met by day laborers and contractors, organized by Instituo de Educacion Popular Del Sur De California (IDEPSCA), already spread along the east side of San Fernando Road in front of Home Depot. Mexica Movement stood in formation on the west side in front of the Day Labor Center. Glendalian supporters of the migrant workers were joined by anti-racist groups from around Los Angeles County and as far away as San Diego, including Anti-Racist Action, Gente Unida, Radical Women, the Southern California Human Rights Network, the International Socialist Organization, and La Tierra es de Todos.

A dozen officers from the Glendale police department, which co-sponsor the day labor center, kept protestors on the sidewalk. Eight green-hatted Lawyers Guild legal observers kept watch, and a few reporters chiefly interviewed members of Save Our State.

The counterprotestors' early positioning forced SOS to the northeast corner of San Fernando and Harvard, where they were surrounded by their opposition. Without leadership, SOS clustered in groups of two's and three's, and faced a steady onslaught of "SOS, KKK, nazi scum, go away," "Racists go home," and angry confrontations. One SOS member took a Schwarzenegger-esque muscleman pose, folded his arms, and jumped up and down in what was apparently intended to be an offensive ploy. Another crossed to the west side of the road, pretended to telephone his mother for help, and sang an impromptu song asking the counterprotestors to buy him a boat. A lone SOS member made his way south to the Home Depot parking lot, where he tried to hand out anti-migrant flyers to Home Depot customers, but a legal observer quickly notified a police officer, and the leafletter was left holding a bagful of flyers for the rest of the morning.

When requested to stop blocking sidewalk traffic, the jornaleros quickly formed a picket line with people posted at each end and calling "¿Qué queremos?" The picketers responded, "¡Justicia!" "¿Quando?" "¡Ahora!" Celebrating their victory, a trio sang labor songs accompanied by a guitar, a small drum, and an accordion. A representative of the jornaleros remarked, "This is our fight. We will be here to fight it."

Home Depot workers looked on from the parking lot. One person rolled a shopping cart of water and snacks through the crowd.

Before the eleventh hour, the scheduled end of SOS's protest, had struck, SOS had disappeared to their cars in a parking lot off Harvard and sped away down San Fernando Road, presumably back to their middle-class neighborhoods.

SOS, which had predicted they would be outnumbered two to one, were overwhelmed by the better than then to one showing. Their poor turnout reflects ongoing fissions within Save Our State's ranks, their failure to garner broad support for their agenda, and the ongoing counterprotests that have repeatedly impeded their efforts. SOS has, over the past year, demonstrated at day laborers in Los Angeles and Orange counties and twice protested an artwork in Baldwin Park. On two occasions, SOS was joined by neo-nazis waving swastika-emblazoned banners. Turner has been deemed too violent even for the minutemen ever since his call last January to "Bring your bats fellas, if we’re lucky, we’re gonna need them...PING!"

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Jornaleros protect their brothers

by Leslie Sunday, Dec. 11, 2005 at 8:50 PM
leslie@radiojustice.net

Jornaleros protect t...
jornaleros.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x292

error
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Counterprotestors

by Leslie Sunday, Dec. 11, 2005 at 8:50 PM
leslie@radiojustice.net

Counterprotestors...
counterprotestors.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x600

Top: east side of San Fernando Rd. Middle: west side of San Fernando. Bottom left: south side of San Fernando and Harvard. Bottom right: south side of San Fernando and Harvard (SOS position).
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Faces of SOS

by Leslie Sunday, Dec. 11, 2005 at 8:50 PM
leslie@radiojustice.net

Faces of SOS...
sosmbrs.jpg, image/jpeg, 600x467

Some of SOS's members.
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The Funny Thing

by Cipactli Monday, Dec. 12, 2005 at 1:18 AM

The funny thing is that after Corporal Joe was arrested, SOS just fell apart as a coherent force of any kind.

They were isolated - in little grouplets of two or three or four, surrounded - absolutely and literally surrounded at every turn, "their" corner "invaded" and taken over by the counter - protestors.

In Corporal Joe's absence, they had ZERO leadership.

Don Silva was as missing in action as Joe himself. As a "leader" in SOS he might as well have been in jail as to have been on the scene in Glendale.

In military lingo they had no "cohesion."

No one had the focus to pull them together.

Don was too focused on playing little one - up ego games and verbal sparring in close encouters with the counter protestors to be concerned about _his people_ of all things, or the kind of demo they were creating, or even the _impression_ they were making.

Without the Corporal, SOS is a bunch of keystone cops, and gallery of fools on a mission to nowhere.

With the Corporal, they at least have a stupid hothead punk frat boy at the helm who won't hesitate to lord it over them. I suppose he makes them feel right at home, little Fuhrer.

Even if he can't control himself.

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"Fell apart" LOL

by Hellfire USA Monday, Dec. 12, 2005 at 10:59 AM

That was hilarious. Joe's arrest had NO effect on our demonstration whatsoever. In fact, it emboldened us. The police set up Joe from the beginning. This sort of thing will only have us out there more often.
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Emboldened

by oh, my Monday, Dec. 12, 2005 at 12:02 PM

That's what you call EMBOLDENED?

If so I have a very BOLD dish rag to sell you.

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The Truth - 1 ONE pickup the ENTIRE MORNING!

by Don Silva Monday, Dec. 12, 2005 at 4:53 PM

Yes, that is right Leslie, 1 pickup vs. 50 for the same time period. How do I know ? I spend time at that center, thank you very much.

All you goons did was take AN ENTIRE DAY away from them. Dohl !

So you protected them from what ? Potential employers? LOL !

Oh, btw, Home Creepo was the target yesterday, NOT the illegal aliens accross the street at the 'center'.

plz , for the love of all that is good, would you guys come there every Saturday ?

Also, you told me on the street corner that day that you would rather they have work, than no work at all after I asked you if you think its a good thing that they have NO recourse if injured on the jobs they get at the center. Well, how about they stay in their country of org and get a yob with Bene's ? Or, Forbid work for CHANGE down there in those crrpt cess pools instead of deserting their fellows?
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Btw, I was just having fun

by Don Silva Monday, Dec. 12, 2005 at 4:57 PM


Oh, was I supposed to take over for Joe or something? I am not that presumptuous. I was having too much fun going around pointing out all of your goony hypocrisy. I love being around you guys, and wish I could do it just about every day ! I NEVER get laffs like I do when I am around the goons !

We did what we wanted to do, and we have no obligation to you or any other foul, smelly, drunken goon.
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my usual corrections of Leslie's account

by Don Silva Monday, Dec. 12, 2005 at 5:20 PM

Like I was telling you Sat. morning Leslie, you just have an issue with numbers ! Its ok tho, that is why I come to your rescue ! Btw, you turned out to be a mostly likable person...misquided and naive, but likable. Oh, in the other thread I was saying that I almost agree with your plan to just open the borders...since they already ARE open, and have been for 200 years...or is that 200 thousand ?

Okay, I know I said I was done with this place, but just so your millions of readers get the straight dope...

It was goons -100, SaveOurState - 25. The usual 4 to 1 ratio that simply DOES NOT matter. See our goal list for why.

Also, the guy in the upper left of your pic gallery at the bottom is actually an undercover cop.

Oh, if you saw where I lived, you would not call it middle class! Remeber, I live on the edge of the Barrio....can you say the same ? Or, did you grow up with upper middle class parents like I suspect ?

Also, the vulgarity on your shirt Saturday is below you.... or at least should be. Those that resort to vulgarity to prove their point rarely have one.

Hey, tell your Mexica movement buddies that I am getting comments about the pic they posted me being very cute ! Do they have more ? If so, plz tell them to post them for me !
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The Truth - The work comes back

by Jammer CC Tuesday, Dec. 13, 2005 at 1:05 AM

Sorry, but it can't be denied. Any work you drove away probably came back on Sunday and will come back on Monday. Was that worth Joe's arrest? At this rate SOS won't have any more clean records to tarnish by the end of 2006. Have fun guys.
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<laugh>

by Fredric L. Rice Tuesday, Dec. 13, 2005 at 12:52 PM
frice@skeptictank.org

> The funny thing is that after Corporal Joe was
> arrested, SOS just fell apart as a coherent force
> of any kind.

Kind of like in Nazi Germany?

It's great seeing that so many good people turned out to oppose these scumbags.

Viva la people!

My opinions only and only my opinions.
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if having Joe Turner rot in jail is being "successful"...

by LORI SILVA Wednesday, Dec. 14, 2005 at 2:36 PM

... then he should be given a life sentence for collaborating with neo-Nazis (persuant to the Nuremberg doctrine), and then the SoS could calim victory every day!!!!

"Gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak gwak " ....
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Cliff, canada is waiting

by Don Silva Friday, Dec. 16, 2005 at 2:53 AM

Cliff,

For someone that has protested at several day laborer sites yourself, I am sure you know much about keeping work away from the illegals !

When it is your liveyhood threatened, you will solidify your dubious positions on the matter. Till then, I hear the economy in Canada is booming!
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haha

by Jammer CC Friday, Dec. 16, 2005 at 3:02 AM

Not sure what you're trying to get at, but remember for a while I did fall for the paranoia that SOS, CCIR, and Gilchrist conditions in their supporters. I guess it simply didn't last long on me, that's one way to look at it. So when are you gonna be done and start looking at things in a more sensible manner? How many criminal records is SOS gonna rack up in Glendale? How much bail money are you guys gonna blow until you're done? Looks like I came to my senses and got out just in time. I can't get into Canada if I have a criminal record.
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as for Canada

by Jammer CC Friday, Dec. 16, 2005 at 3:03 AM

I'll go there by legitimate means by their immigration laws, thank you very much.
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Hey Leslie

by Heidi Ho Friday, Dec. 16, 2005 at 7:50 PM

Um, you consider it admirable to run to Police Department to stop people from passsing out flyers?
What would the ACLU have to say about THAT???

I quote:

" A lone SOS member made his way south to the Home Depot parking lot, where he tried to hand out anti-migrant flyers to Home Depot customers, but a legal observer quickly notified a police officer, and the leafletter was left holding a bagful of flyers for the rest of the morning."

Thanks to all the NLG Legal Observers for alerting the Police Department about .... LEAFLETERS!!!


AAAARGH....where do I turn in my leftist badge and get away from "the Left"???
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Where did I . . .

by Leslie Saturday, Dec. 17, 2005 at 12:01 PM

. . . say this was "admirable"? Heidi, I'm not known for mincing words--if I think someone or something is "admirable," I'm pretty sure I'd say so.

A simple request of readers and especially commentators here: please try to read and comment on what I write. It's difficult to respond if you're projecting your own agenda onto my scribblings. We'll get a lot further in this intermittant dialogue if we can start with that.
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Turner Sighted in Mexico

by TurnerWatch Wednesday, Dec. 21, 2005 at 12:37 AM

Mexicali--Joseph Turner, infamous leader of Save Our State, was may have been spotted recently in this Mexican border town. If so, it appears that Turner has run across the border rather than face his second (or is it third?) charge for battery and assault. He was seen making his way across the desert and under the fence accompanied by two setoyoc (backward coyotes).

Reportedly Turner broke into fluent Spanish once on the other side, learned, perhaps, from his Mexican father. He was immediately recruited by the White Hand, the notorious Mexican death squads run by Spanish-descent landowners to intimidate Mexican peasants.

In a phone conversation with this reporter, Turner wanted Pentagonal to be assured that he will write "Letters from a California Jail" even though he has evaded incarceration.

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Pentagonal

by SOS Watcher Wednesday, Dec. 21, 2005 at 2:17 AM

The SOS poster known as Pentagonal is actually a front person for David Horowitz.

Horowitz' aim is to split a faction of SOS away from the elements like Joe and Don that have covert Nazi ties, and incorporate the remnants in his own grouping under his (Horowitz) own leadership.

The constant flips Petagonal does between looking like a Nazi and a Zionist are meant to keep Joe off balance, while driving a wedge between Joe and those with less conscious Nazi sympathies in the group, or those who are ostensibly anti - Nazi ( the unconscious or fearful Nazi symps who fear being outed publicly.)

SOS is being squeezed from both ends - both the Nazis and the Horowitz factions, and Joe and Don are stuck in the middle in an increasingly untenable position, especially with Joe's vulnerability since his most recent arrest.
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Stuck in the middle with you

by AyatollahGondola Wednesday, Dec. 21, 2005 at 8:42 AM

The middle is exactly where Don, Joe and most of us wish to be. The middle is precisely where most Americans are.
You are obsessed with Naziism. Nazi this, and Nazi that. I've mentioned this before, although it was censored out somewhat:
Many people who constantly bring up subjects and terms like that repeatedly, have their motives deeply rooted in the fetish mode. They hide within self help or advocacy groups so they can live out their fantasies in discussions without being detected as such. That way that can possess materials, speak about it incessantly, and find others who will supply them with more. I have witnessed this within spousal abuse and rape support groups. The more profoundly affected come to the meetings as either victims or counselors and try to point the discussions towards detailed and even graphic subjects.
All I can say to them is just buy yourself a doll and stop making things worse for others.

Joe sighted in Mexico? his third charge? He's going to run away to MEXICO to find shelter? Someone should have waited for a more lucid moment to make a post here. Why would Joe, having been vocally, and literally critical of Mexico's policies for several years, expect even the slightest bit of accomodation from Mexico?
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Denial

by johnk Wednesday, Dec. 21, 2005 at 12:57 PM

AG, you're one of the few in active denial about the connections between SOS and hate groups. Everyone on the left, and many on the right, simply acknowledge not only that fact, but are aware of the historical relationships between the extremists and the hate groups.

Also, thanks to the good work of activists doing their reporting here (but also due to counting by the fascists themselves) we know that, numerically, the fascists have always been a large presence at the SOS demos. We know that the SOS demos have been an organizing tool for fascists. We know that the National Alliance bolstered their organization due to piggybacking on SOS's work.

No amount of verbiage on your part will change these facts.
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C'mon Ayatollah

by Jammer CC Wednesday, Dec. 21, 2005 at 3:11 PM

You're a member of SOS right? So show your manners and thank the Nazis for one of the "Deport Illegals" banners they provided for SOS. :-)
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I challenge you

by AyatollahGondola Wednesday, Dec. 21, 2005 at 3:49 PM

I'll give you your chance JohnK.

I challenge you to a trial. A public trial. A trial of the facts instead of accusations and counter points. Dare you try to prove that SOS is a Nazi organization with Nazism at its' core? Can you prove your case that racism is the driving thrust behind SOS in a public venue with neutral judges and a jury chosen by both sides? I mean you guys JohnK....
Leslie of Radio justice,
Fred R of the Break wind
Duane
The Crock peddler
All of the goon squad that has been at protests opposing us against all the SOS patriots who have been there too, in a trial for authenticated bragging rights at future protests that a judgement was entered in the favor of defendant or plaintiff.
Interested JohnK?
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So much denial

by Leslie Wednesday, Dec. 21, 2005 at 7:45 PM

So much denial...
pentagonal_on_sos.jpg, image/jpeg, 600x433

. . . and so little justification.

1) Is SOS racist? That's prima facie: you invited a bunch of people to your "trial," and not one of them comes from a family that originated south of the U.S. border. Not a Mexican, Mexican-American, Chicano/a, Central American, South American, or even Caribbean-American in the lot. 'Nuf said.

2) No response to Pentagonal promoting David Horowitz and the ADL? Does it puzzle anyone in SOS that Pentagonal wants you to hook up with the Jewish community while uploading a signature pic from the Stormfront site?

3) Fetishism about fascism? So the next time the neo-nazi's show up at an SOS event, I should ignore them? Are you kidding?

Or, as John K hints, are you in denial about what's really going on in SOS? Step back, Ayatollah, from the inner circle for just a few minutes and look at the the what's come to light here on Indymedia. If you weren't already tied into Save Our State, I'll bet, based on the facts alone, you wouldn't join.

FACT: The leader's been arrested multiple times on assault and battery charges in otherwise nonviolent demonstrations. In the first months of SOS he openly advocated violence against Mexicans.

FACT: SOS as a group and its leader have been deemed too violent for the Minuteman Project.

FACT: SOS appears with neo-Nazis repeatedly, and on one occasion with neo-nazi flags.

FACT: A prominent SOS member regularly links from the stormfront site to the SOS forums.

FACT: The Minuteman Project founders have been associated with neo-nazis and racist violence since before the inception of the organization, and continue to be up through last week, based on the legal record, and the testimony of their volunteers and other MM leaders.

FACT: SOS's only actions have been to deny livelihoods to people who are barely surviving, and now, to shut down the smallest and most vulnerable mom-and-pop companies.

These are not the roots of a noble cause, Ayatollah. Except that you clearly have an immense capacity for rationalization, I don't know how you sleep at night.
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Fact or Fiction

by southcentral Wednesday, Dec. 21, 2005 at 9:43 PM

Fact: The Minutemen were more diverse than the OB protesters in Burbank. (note to Leslie; don't have the boys yell "KKK" to black men.)

Fact: MMP has never issued any statement regarding SOS.

Fact: There were more Stormfronters with Cindy Sheenan than have ever been with Jim Gilchrist.

Fact: Much of Stormfront consists of leftists trying to pretend Stromfront supports a group.

Fact: IndyMedia is more anti Semetic than SOS ever could be.

Fact: Many more Indymedia leftists have been arrested at protests than SOS ers,

Fact: no Minuteman has ever harmed an illegal alien,

Fact: illegal immigrants provide and endless supply of cheap labor who have effectively erroded the gains made by the labor unions in the past 30 years.

Fact: neo cons like Bush love cheap illegal labor.

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So that's a no?

by AyatollahGondola Wednesday, Dec. 21, 2005 at 10:31 PM

A simple no would have sufficed Leslie. Making your case on the commentary board seems pretty pedestrian in that it never seems to accomplish anything save for some excorcism of personal demons. I understand if your accusations might not withstand full disclosure in the light of day and under prior agreed rules applied to both.
Your accusation that I did not include certain ethnics or nationalities in my challenge is not exactly true. The challenge was extended to anyone who has opposed us at the protests. I didn't see the need to go specifying races or demographics, but it doesn't surprise me that you did.
You said Joe Turner was arrested before? Well I have been too Leslie, and in case you haven't had it drilled into your head yet, arrest is not guilt. Or do you believe anyone that is arrested is automatically guilty?
I'm not going to refute your charges above or try the case here on the boards about the Nazi/racist/wn/na/ or whatever other goey muds you have; Set a court date.
I have solid reasons why I joined SOS, and as it happens, a couple of them are associated with why I don't sleep at night. If you had similar experience maybe you would have joined SOS too instead of singing goon tunes at full decible in an effort to drown out our free speech rights
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kidding me

by knew it Wednesday, Dec. 21, 2005 at 11:46 PM

"IndyMedia is more anti Semetic than SOS ever could be"
and you base this on what? The rantings of other Zionists?
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Turner's prior bust

by johnk Thursday, Dec. 22, 2005 at 12:53 AM

He was busted for assault, after assaulting a protester. He was guilty of assault.

So, yes, arrest doesn't necessarily mean guilt, but in this case, Turner's past arrest did mean guilt.

Once again, AG, you're debating with "what about" and "not necessarily", but the facts are very plain, and your denials amount to nothing.
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To southcentral, with an aside to Ayatollah

by Leslie Thursday, Dec. 22, 2005 at 1:01 AM

Fact: I don't know any boys, except for some children.

Fact: Andy Ramirez, leader of Friends of the Border Patrol and sometime-honcho in the MMP, has denounced Gilchrist publicly. From the SOS forum, May 8, 2005: 

"He [Ramirez] has called Joseph specifically a neo-nazi thug and has sent press releases to major media outlets in advance of some of our events pleading with them not to cover us because we are neo-nazi thugs and racists. . . ."

"What you don't know can hurt you. I put a link on my site and instructed potential donors to support him [Ramirez] since Gilchrist said he supports him in the PE article yesterday . . .

Fact: No one knows how many neo-nazis are hooked into Gilchrist.

Fact: Whaat??? You said, "Much of Stormfront consists of leftists trying to pretend Stromfront supports a group"????

Fact: I never claimed SOS was anti-semitic. You just did that.

Fact: I don't know of a single Indymedia (if you mean someone who posts here) leftist who's been arrested at an SOS protest.

Fact: You said, "no Minuteman has ever harmed an illegal alien." Except for the "rogue" Minutemen (per James Chase) that shot two migrants last summer. Except for the mortification of the t-shirt incident. Except for Ranch Rescue. Except for however many human beings they turned in who went to (and maybe are still sitting in) deportation camp, I mean, prison.

Fact: Immigrants, legal or not, are welcome to join most labor unions. The unions haven't, thus far, organized them. And more to the point, the erosion of wages hasn't been because of people from Mexico. Mexicans are just a simplistic distraction from the real causes, and handy scapegoats.

Fact: I stand by my proposal to legalize all migrant labor. But I'd be willing to begin the North American Free Labor Agreement and the Central American Free Labor Agreement with people who's countries have signed onto NAFTA and CAFTA.

Ayatollah, nice evasion of almost everything I asked. You mentioned four names, one of them was mine, and hell, no, you're not going to put me on "trial." Who do you think you are? Oh, I forgot--you're a vigilante, and in your mind that qualifies you to be enforcer, prosecutor, judge, and jury. Ayatollah, this vigilante play-acting is messing with your head.

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correction

by Leslie Thursday, Dec. 22, 2005 at 1:31 AM

Ramirez denounced Joseph Turner, not James Gilchrist, as far as I know.

Gilchrist disowned Chase. Simcox disowned Ramirez. Chase renounced Gilchrist. Gilchrist adopted Ramirez. Turner repudiated Ramirez. Ayatollah split with Chase. OldPreach (or is it Border Raven?) is a Chase fan. Someone from SOS doesn't like Gilchrist anymore because Gilchrist likes Ramirez who doesn't like Turner. Gilchrist split with Simcox. Then there are all the MM factions in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico renouncing and denouncing each other. I get confused. Who owns the name these days?
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So much denial?

by Border Raven Thursday, Dec. 22, 2005 at 2:44 AM

So much denial?

>In the image titled "pentagonal_on_sos.jpg, image/jpeg, 600x433"

>Yes, we see a link to the stormfront server. This is because the SOS forum software, does not allow server uploads of images, but rather links to the source server.

1) Is SOS racist? That's prima facie: you invited a bunch of people to your "trial," and not one of them comes from a family that originated south of the U.S. border. Not a Mexican, Mexican-American, Chicano/a, Central American, South American, or even Caribbean-American in the lot. 'Nuf said.

>1) Gee I wasn't invited to the trial and I'm African. :(

2) No response to Pentagonal promoting David Horowitz and the ADL? Does it puzzle anyone in SOS that Pentagonal wants you to hook up with the Jewish community while uploading a signature pic from the Stormfront site?

>2) No comment

3) Fetishism about fascism? So the next time the neo-nazi's show up at an SOS event, I should ignore them? Are you kidding?

>3) You, ignore those smooth bald heads. I'd thought you would love 'em.

Or, as John K hints, are you in denial about what's really going on in SOS? Step back, Ayatollah, from the inner circle for just a few minutes and look at the the what's come to light here on Indymedia. If you weren't already tied into Save Our State, I'll bet, based on the facts alone, you wouldn't join.

FACT: The leader's been arrested multiple times on assault and battery charges in otherwise nonviolent demonstrations. In the first months of SOS he openly advocated violence against Mexicans

>MLK was arrested many times in the struggle for Civil Rights. SOS is in the struggle for American's rights.

FACT: SOS as a group and its leader have been deemed too violent for the Minuteman Project.

>I am a Minuteman and SOS, and have not been asked by either to leave either group, yest, when my rights are affected, I can get violent, if I am willing to get arrested. Next time.

FACT: SOS appears with neo-Nazis repeatedly, and on one occasion with neo-nazi flags.

>It was the Neo-Nazis who stood equal to SOS, but, in opposition to our opposition after the Victorville rally, not the other way around. Which if you note in V-ville they maintained separation, on the other corner. You see just because SOS and Stormfront, are not on the same page, don't mean we cannot face in the same direction.

>At the Laguna Arts Festival rally, a few Stormfront people approached SOS persons and were given signs and banners to hold. At that time I did not know of any Neo-Nazis, and had I been there, I would have welcomed the added participation, also.

<> BTW -- thanks for exposing them to us, because our policy has changed, now that we know their faces. Please feel free to point out any Nazis in our ranks.

FACT: A prominent SOS member regularly links from the Stormfront site to the SOS forums.

>got proof? And if you mean the picture, showing the "Downloading picture riots-paris", or some such, as I have said before, the SOS software is different from the IMC software. We cannot put pictures on our server as you can. We have to put our pictures on a host server, then link to the host. Or in the case of Stormfront, link to their server. Geeesh! it ain't like it's a virus, and linking to it will cause you to grow hair. Get a grip, fer Christ's sake.

FACT: The Minuteman Project founders have been associated with neo-nazis and racist violence since before the inception of the organization, and continue to be up through last week, based on the legal record, and the testimony of their volunteers and other MM leaders.

> Please share what you know.

FACT: SOS's only actions have been to deny livelihoods to people who are barely surviving, and now(not?), to shut down the smallest and most vulnerable mom-and-pop companies.

>SOS is small, as you may have noticed at our rallies. We will go after the small employers who are violating the laws and preying on the poor defenseless, (illegal)-immigrants, and leave the Globalist Corporations to you and the O.R.G.A.N.I.C Collective.

> SOS is targeting the employers who pickup people at, or near, day labor hiring sites, by giving informational literature, explaining immigration and employment laws This was done after we discovered, many employers were assuming the laborers at city approved sites were ALL eligible for employment under US Immigration and Employment laws. We do this to protect our fellow Americans.

>We have been accused of racism, when we are only educating Americans about the Laws, they could be unknowingly violating, thus risking great loss.
Wehave been accused of racism, when our first operations were on the USA-Mexico border, which is less than a thousand mile drive for most of us. That is de facto or matter-of-fact pure convienience. BTW -- it is also beyond our control if most of the people crossing our southern border happens to be look like thay come from the same village, furthermore, it is beyond our control, if the day laborers look the same too. Illegal is illegal.

>In effect, we are also serving to improve the overall employment chances of persons eligible for employment, in the USA, by discouraging the undocumented persons from seeking employment, while hoping they send word, back home to the streets and villages, that there no longer is a "Gold Rush" of employment opportunities, in the USA, as was previously reported. Sorry, no mas.

>SOS is encouraging employers to visit legitimate businesses, like labor Ready, that supply day laborers, and operate in accordance with state and federal laws.
HINT: Start an employment agency, like Labor Ready, and hire all the illegals you want. I don't care. The sooner you get busted hiring illegals, the better.

>You may wish to contact people you care about, inquire about their immigration status, encourage those who are not eligible for employment in the USA, to self-deport themselves, and send those who are eligible to Labor Ready, so they can be put to work.

>Any laborers who are found to be loitering on the streets or outside of the soon to be shutdown day labor centers, will face arrest and hassle by the local police. Not to mention we the people of SOS, CCIR, Minutemen, etc., who will be happy to drive up with a truck, and our video cams, as we pick them up, for a "job interview", where we will give them an INS Form I-9 and ask for their papers. [sus papeles Por Favor]. Of the many persons loitering at the Glendale Home Depot, how many do you think could fill out the I-9? Please, get back to me on that,as I am losing sleep over this.

>BTW- anyone who is an illegal-immigrant, can go back to their village, and plant beans, squash, tomatoes, and corn, for all I give a damn. All I care about is my employment opportunities, and my livelihood, and the future of my relatives, here in the USA. The rest can go to Hell.

Glendale Police Department Day Labor Project
"The nature of the day laborer situation is such that, even when hired, workers usually make the minimum wage and may work one or two days a week, if at all. There have even been incidents of felony assaults among the laborers themselves due to the fierce competition for jobs - experiencing 'survival of the fittest.' The truth is, that there are more day laborers on our streets than our local economy can employ or sustain."
http://www.ci.glendale.ca.us/police/day_labor.asp

In the videos found on Workplace Watchdog's site, you see the Day Laborers having a grand old time, playing Foosball and other activites requiring hard work.
http://www.workplacewatchdog.org/
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reply

by Jammer CC Thursday, Dec. 22, 2005 at 4:28 AM

"FACT: The leader's been arrested multiple times on assault and battery charges in otherwise nonviolent demonstrations. In the first months of SOS he openly advocated violence against Mexicans.

FACT: SOS as a group and its leader have been deemed too violent for the Minuteman Project."

Ah yes, after the September 24th Laguna Beach rally. I'm sitting in Carls Jr. with Joe Turner and Old Preach. I don't mean to get into private stuff here so I won't say much. But Joe did verbally express the desire to get some number of them(opposition) and the same number(I forgot which number) of us and have a "throw down." He didn't say Mexicans, I think he just mean opposition.

Thinking back to the two white nationalists from Stormfront that were in Gilchrist's campaign. How the heck did they get let in and be allowed to stay?? One admitted that Gilchrist knew who they were and asked to not post about it on Stormfront. Someone who goes by the name Kortney said that Eldon let four of them in, infact knowing they were white nationalists or of that type. Later she was mean to me, obviously favoring Gilchrist like just about all his other supporters. Comfort zone!

When I spoke with Steve Eichler on the phone, he said one of them showed him the pictures on Indymedia. Was that before or after I informed the campaign? The one who admitted that Gilchrist knew who they were said that he showed them the pictures as well. And he was still allowed to stay? I mean really, if they really wanted to stay clean from association with racist groups, wouldn't this indicate a pathetic inability to keep them out?

I still get flack from Gilcrhist's supporters. I wonder which ones are staying in denial to stay in their comfort zone, after investing so much in Gilchrist. I wonder which ones even care if there's an association with white nationalists and supremacist types?

Here's a question, why did it take me this long to wake up to all this?? hahaha! :-)

Here's part of an email Jim Gilchrist sent to some of his supporters:

"Dear Americans,
The Minuteman Project has no affiliation with any racist
organization...period!"

Okay, but do you Jim reject white supremacy? Will you do it publicly? Heck if I had the desire to start a citizen border watch, that would be the first thing I'd do. I'd oppose racism as much as anything if that were the case.
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Stuck in the Middle?

by SOS Watcher Thursday, Dec. 22, 2005 at 6:04 AM

Too funny. AG sez he and Joe and Don are in the "middle," where they want to be and where "most Americans" are.

He's playing the "mainstream card."

But being sandwiched in a power play between Nazis and David Horowitz doesn't make you "mainstream," or in the "middle," it puts you on the EXTREME Right.

Then he doesn't even get that the thing someone posted about Joe Turner being spotted in Mexicali running from the law was satirical!

God, what a waste of breath communicating with this guy!

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reply

by Jammer CC Thursday, Dec. 22, 2005 at 7:02 AM

More like a waste of bandwidth
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so much lurking

by Border Raven Thursday, Dec. 22, 2005 at 9:47 AM


One thing the picture, "pentagonal_on_sos.jpg, image/jpeg, 600x433", is evidence of, is that someone was lurking in SOS.

We know it is happening, that's why we play to the lurkers, friend and foe, our "silent audience".

We can look at the list and see a post has 5 replies, and 65 views, or scroll to the bottom and read the stats "4 guests, 1 members 0 anonymous members", and see who is logged-on.

Nothing new, I mean the senseless mud slinging, but try to find a better use of your time.

BTW -- I have lurked, but not posted, in Stormfront and others, also. I am sure you have too.

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