The crowd was very rambunctious and sprawling with approximately 20-25 SOS members and supporters squaring off with about 150-200 supporters of day laborers, human rights and justice. The anti-SOS crowd so enveloped the SOS people that they could only be noticed by passing motorists because of their large red, white and blue banners affixed to long poles.

Joe Turner, the leader of Save Our State got himself arrested approximately 10 minutes after the scheduled start time of 8:00am for instigating a pushing match with a few of the counter demonstrators who were attempting to pass him on the public sidewalk and pretty much ended up talking himself into the back of a Glendale PD squad car earning himself an early exit and a trip to a cold holding cell.

The leaderless SOSers stayed until their scheduled end time of 11am at which point they all left en masse to their previously decided upon parking location and after earning victory the 150-200 supporters of human rights dispersed as well.

According to reports on the SOS website (saveoursate.org) he made bail and was released at about 2pm. The struggle goes on. Donations are being accepted.

The usual post-protest finger-pointing and bickering is now taking place on the SOS message board where members take turns blaming everybody but themselves for the miserable time they had. What more could be expected from a group that chooses to blame the most vulnerable in our society for the ills presented to workers by a system of global capitalism that benefits no one but the rich?

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=5690&st=40)

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You guys are just a hoot ! I guess following someone and screaming at the constitutes "trying to pass on the sidewalk".

You people truly are twisted.

PLEASE come again! You all made Home Creepo look SO great! Thank you for doing our job, and also for shutting down the day laborer center.

1 pickup the whole morning where there are usually 50!

Go ahead and spin that...I know its going to be pure entertainment.

sufter motiff

When I was walking towards the rally I had notice a truck with a campershell which had a germany flag on leftside and othe side it had a Iron Cross. The first thought came to my mind that it was a Neo Nazi on the prowl with SOS. wait til tommorrow for the pic with the SOS Poster Model.

HAHAHAHA!!! what a knucklehead! pushing people?? what a lame-o! sounds like SOS is led by a Ten-Minute Man... hey Joe, does that make you a hero? pushing folks on the sides walks? what, didn't like how they don't respect you? how many times have you been led away by police, tough guy...

Ya ignorant dimwitted fool

The red, white and blue "banners", you so boldly disrespect, is the flag, of the United States of America.

"The colors of the pales (the vertical stripes) are those used in the flag of the United States of America; White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief (the broad band above the stripes) signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice." "The star is a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial; the stripe is symbolic of the rays of light emanating from the sun."

And all together it means we will kick your ass all the way back to that glowing hole in the ground you used to call Mexico City.

For the life of me I don't understand why you want so many to come here from another country to take away from our own. I'm a single mom, (American) with a very disabled child, who has to grovel along with so many other Americans who need help caring for their disabled children and family members. There is a 70% unemployment rate amongst the disabled, and so many elderly and poor who are American born and barely surviving. You make Americans who desire protection of their own seem pathological. Your contempt of American ideals and citizenship is the folly of those with healthy bodies and elitiist types who live in gated communities or on their parents distributions, nevert forced to compete. Why do you keep pushing for more poor to come here when we are doing such a poor job of protecting our own vulnerable.citizens. Why work so hard to bring more poor women and children here. (God bless them all) You speak for them but who speaks for us. Make sure your own family is fed before you invite guests! Stop maligning those who stand up for us!

"What more could be expected from a group that chooses to blame the most vulnerable in our society for the ills presented to workers by a system of global capitalism that benefits no one but the rich?"

One of the goals of SOS, is to stop the rich employers who hire the, poor defenseless, and vulnerable, but also illegal aliens, from hiring them and therefore, abusing them.

Not only that, but the illegal aliens are victimized long before the cross the border, by people in their homelands, and along the trail, by everyone trying to make a centavo from them. Then they are enslaved again upon reaching the so-called "promised land", by the employers, who hire them. Or they reach so called gold rush, called America, only to find too many laborers are already here. Then the crooked employers, don't report taxes, and the rest of the American taxpayers have to pickup the tab. Once the illegal immigrant is already here in the USA, they cannot afford to return home. Or they can, but why go back to the problems they ran away from?

While here they are exposed to temptations, considered taboo, back home, in the form of young underage girls, whom they can spend minutes abusing, for the price of $30. http://www.loscristeros.org/clinicexpose.htm

In January(2003), the Mexican paper El Universal published a three-part series on the trafficking of Mexican girls to brothels--rape camps, really--near San Diego. Over a 10-year period, hundreds of girls, 12 to 18 years old, from southern Mexico were either kidnapped or tricked by three brothers into coming to the United States. The girls were sold to farm workers--between 100 and 300 at a time--in small "caves" made of reeds in the fields. Many of the girls had babies, who were used as hostages with death threats against them, so their mothers would not try to escape.

AND YOU SCUM WANT TO KEEP PERPETUATING THIS!

SHAME ON YOU!

Look familiar?

y tu racistas

one word. SOS and minuteman are one bunch of racists whites deemed terrorists on the well being of america and those who seek a better life.

Two: where are your green cards from 1492?

Three: technically, white racists are the wetbacks here. crossed the ocean as wet bodies.

Our land, this my land, our land, not your land. Europeans, if you have an issue with this, you have your continent, and this one is mine, ours, not yours, ours. If you dont like it, nobody is stoping you from packing and leaving, after all you do have a continent. But this one is mine! Go back to yours. This is mine, our land, our resources.

El Chivo,

If it is OK for Mexicans/Chicanos to have pride and display the Mexican flag, why can't German Americans do the same with the German flag/symbols?

Illegal Mexican,
You got it all backwards. Europeans where here first!! 40,000 years ago!! 20,000 years before what you call "indigenous" walked over from Siberia, and killed/interbred with the Europeans that were already here!! The Europeans after 1492 were simply reoccupying what Millenia earlier had been taken from them.

Yet in the USA anyway, the Europeans did not totally wipe out the "indigenous" as they did 20 millenia ago to the original European inhabitants. If fact Americans have granted the "indigenous" semi-soverign status and lucrative Indian gaming.

European Americans have even been generous enough to allow large numbers of non-Europeans to immigrate to America, as long as they learn English and make a positive contribution.

But if you want to make this into a "who was here first" war, where "later intruders" are to be deported, you better get ready to live in Mongolia.

loscristeros.org should consider talking with people on the anti-SOS side. They'd be linked up with other people working to stop human trafficking.

I'm not gonna get into the whole "who was here first" argument. I recognize the USA as the country I'm in and a citizen of. I'm also gonna be in Canada eventually so I'll observe and not get into this issue. I acknowledge the USA but obviously I'm not investing in living here much longer. This has been my plan for a long time, that never changed. And for personal reasons, nothing involving this issue. :-)

I wasn't at Glendale. I changed my mind. I replied somewhere else saying I changed my plans but was still looking forward to all the action. Meaning, I changed my mind about going to Glendale. Other than take pictures and footage and observe, I didn't really have enough reason to pollute the air with my car to go all the way there. And what I meant by still looking forward to all the action was awaiting the photos and footage on the internet. :-)

SOS seems concerned about Joe's arrest. If it was wrongful, I'd be concerned too. But I'm not personally affected since I'm not in SOS anymore. :-)

I should also note that when protesters were being arrested in the Sacramento Minuteman/Gilchrist rally at the capital, I think I was the only one on the Minuteman side who expressed concern over possible police brutality. At least one other thought the whole thing was funny. That event initially made me want to get a video camera, whereas before I never bothered with that sort of thing. Eventually I got one in time for a Lake Forest protest rally. About when I started to notice certain things not quite right.

Ah yes, and I gave a copy to Steve Eichler(he wouldn't let me go to Gilchrist). I was concerned about the behavior in public turning away votes, complete with a bullhorn and Gilchrist campaign signs, giant ones(and SOS thinks their opponets are goons?). We watched the video and Steve downplayed it. What a shmuck. I stated my concern for getting votes and finally he said something like we'll take care of it. And Mary, yes Mary Parker Lewis, wanted me to leave the original footage there. Nah-ah-ahhhhh! Ain't gonna happen! My footage for my usage.

Anyone who was at Lake Forest, don't worry, it's not gonna be public. If you wanna see it, ask Steve Eichler.

And yes the behavior from Gilchrist and SOS members involved invading people's space, bullhorn in someone's face, yelling, and calling people "Unamerican" I guess with some kind of opionated criteria for who's American and who's not. One told a woman, who wasn't a day labor worker, that she should be deported. Jim Gilchrist drove by, but didn't stay. Even he had the sense to not stick around I guess. But I got him on film too. :-)

opionated = opinionated

I reminder that I didn't jump direct sides here. I'm not sure if there's an all out Indymedia vs. SOS/MMP/Gilchrist going on here. If so, I'm not doing that. But I do have a personal issue with Jim Gilchrist and everyone in the whole wide world should know :-)

And I do recognize the hate and paranoia that SOS, by nature, conditions. Still, I'm not in the La Raza or whatever crowd. :-)

The fact is that immigration to the U.S. both legal and illegal, from Mexico, will never end, no matter how many obstacles you put up, until the quality of life and economic situation in Mexico becomes such that people no longer feel the need to immigrate to the U.S. - Duh! So instead of dealing with the symptom why not try to cure the cause by telling George Bush to seriously invest in mexico and its infrastructure. Why won't you do this, because its easier to pick on the guy on the corner than the guy in the White House. If you feel this is not your responsibility then stop bitching about all the "illegals" and the mexicanization of the U.S. You know what the real problem is, so fix it!

johnk, In regards to your comment above about fighting "human trafficking," it is really easy to stand outside and scream racist, racist, racist, but to fight to defend girls means possible death. Latinos know this and so they shun the idea. Reporters die in Mexico for speaking against it and the girls know they have no recourse but suffer because the traffickers can kill their families. Nevertheless, the fight will still be fought because it'll make life better for us in the future. I know it may seem ironic for me to be supportive of SOS yet the problem is illegal immigration has created a grey area of exploitation. Girls are regularly trafficked but no one helps out of fear of the traffickers/coyotes or deportation. The status quo is a human rights disaster - we need to regularize the immigrants who are here with amnestia and enforce border security so there is orderly immigration. I know half of that puts me at odds with my friends but as life is the truth isn't often easy to pigeonhole. [IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/joaquinsantiago/CristerosSignatureSOS.jpg[/IMG]

Human Trafficking only occurs because people are not allowed to travel freely from mexico to the U.S. Notice that right now at this moment you can travel to Mexico from the U.S. and back again by showing your license/passport at the border. If it were that easy for the people in Mexico then the immigrants would come work, stay a while, and go back home, its that simple, but since it is expensive and difficult to get into the U.S. the immigrants stay, not because they want to but because they have to. If you trully want to stop human trafficking then your efforts should be placed on allowing people to travel freely from Mexico to the U.S by use of identification at the border as is currently done with U.S. citizens.

So what you're saying is that workers who are here against US immigration laws would otherwise be able to come here, work, then go back for a while, then come back for work, then go back for various reasons? If it works, let's extend the 5 freeway down to Panama.

If you are concerned about immigrants taking U.S. jobs, then you should also be concerned about U.S. corporations sending jobs to Mexico and Central America!

But S.O.S. has a double standard; they attack the poor immigrants coming in, but do not attack the wealthy and powerful corporations that are sending good-paying American jobs south of the border. What do you think happened to Fint, Michigan? Ant that's just one of the things that makes people think that S.O.S. has some kind of racist chip on its shoulder.

Immigrant labor is a reality in this country, and the same powerful multinationals that are sending jobs overseas are employing undocumented workers here (themselves or through contractor proxies) and then quietly funding politicians like Schwarzenegger and Pete Wilson before him to keep the "anti-immigrant" pressure on so that immigrant workers will not be able to assert their rights without risking deportation.

S.O.S. members, you are "only a pawn in their game." Your fears of being displaced and the thinly-veiled ethnic purity in your ideology are being used to do exactly what you say you want to prevent: bring immigrant workers into this country and employ them under super-exploitative conditions that undermine working conditions and wages for every worker in the United States.

You should be working for a sane immigration policy that will legally allow immigration, so that immigrants can assert their rights while working here, and therefore stop being used as a cheap alternative to U.S. labor. And you should be pushing to stop the U.S. from supporting repressive and exploitative governments like the Arena government of El Salvador. AND, you should fight against the maquiladora zones, and the NAFTA and CAFTA agreements that allow goods produced by U.S. companies in Central American countries using exploited labor working under horrifying conditions to be sold here without tariffs, labor or environmental restrictions.

But that would not allow you to make immigrants into a convenient scapegoat for all of your problems, would it? You would actually have to take on someone who is wealthy and powerful, enormous multinational corporations, wouldn't you? Well, that would be a lot harder to do than beating up on some poor Mexican workers, wouldn't it?

Don't be a cowarrd. Fight the good fight. Join with immigrant workers and defeat your real oppressors.

In my experience, there's been talk and some effort in taking on the corporations. But not a whole lot. The Minuteman Project is largely based on watching the border to prevent actual people from coming through the borders. These people aren't exactly wearing business suits.

In day labor protests, sure they're going after employers. But these are mom and pop construction or other manual labor businesses they're going after. Not major companies like Wal-Mart.

Let's clear something RIGHT NOW:


There is no such thing as "La Raza."


The only two groups protesting the SOS/Minutemen racists were:

1) Mexica Movement (pronounced "Meh-sheeh-kah")
and
2) the ISO


These two groups are not working partners.
The Mexica Movement stays away from anything dealing with "Raza" or "Mecha" or "Socialist/Communist/Capitalist."


Read their web site to see why:

http://www.mexica-movement.org

I understand, in terms of going into detail. That was the case from what I read about the Glendale event. At other events there were other opponents such as Anarchists(of some types, not reflective of all Anarchists I'm sure) and college students(Laguna Beach).

I'm not sure if it's the "illegal" status of the johns that is causing the human trafficking. It probably contributes because it creates a culture of silence. There's a lot of sex (and other) slavery of Asians, and, while there is a substantial undocumented Asian population, it's not as large a fraction, and the undocumented aren't the main exploiters.

I thought the Southern Cal Human Rights Network was one of the early organizers.

These SOS counter-protests have brought together a lot of disparate groups that otherwise would not really work together.

(BTW, there are demo pics on the Mexica Movement site.)

243 p.c. battery on a person

I believe at the bottom it reads bail $20,000,00.

I proposed this here long ago, but let me try it again--open the borders! Screen people like the U.S. does at airports, against lists of terrorists and convicted felons. In one stroke, you force traffickers, terrorists, and smugglers into the desert.

The Border Patrol can then rightfully assume that anyone crossing the desert is a trafficker, terrorist, or smuggler. They'll have the resources to "protect" U.S. citizens, the U.S. labor market will stabilize, maquiladoras will dry up.

Of course, this plan screws corporations that want to exploit international labor here and abroad, another bonus.

The whole SOS point is, and has been that the law isn't being enforced now. They will not enforce it then either. They do not want to enforce that law or any other that strengthens their ability to exploit workers, nations, or the citizens of nations. they don't give a damn about filtering out terrorists, criminals, or any harmful people to the general populace. Only those who might present a risk to thier economic and power lust interests.
Damnit girl! how can you be so stubborn?

we agree on a plan. Let's do it.

Bad day, yesterday, for SOS, wasn't it?

I love the way you vermin gloat as if you achieved some sort of victory over American citizens trying to get simple laws enforced. The fact is that you in fact work for US. The pictures and priceless video we get of your subhuman behavior is used as fodder for our cause. We send this stuff everywhere and I have gotten emails from people in other states who see it and been motivated to start their own anti-illegal immigration groups because the last thing they want in their communites is a bunch of illiterate, brown racists and Mexican Nazis/Communists ranting and raving in their streets.

So keep doing what you are doing while the cameras roll. :)

There is something in the works, funny you say Panama.

You are against "illegal immigration," you should be familiar with Plan Puebla Panama, so why are you not?

Thats exactly what we DON'T want (menso!) -- so that no more lands are taken for the mass production, destruction that accompanies these brutal WTO agendas.

Anyhow, yes there is a network of freeways in the works from Panama to TX, new airports, dams, factories, other sorts of consumerist development., at the fate of the ancient ecology, environment and peoples...

The funny thing is that after Corporal Joe was arrested, SOS just fell apart as a coherent force of any kind.

They were isolated - in little grouplets of two or three or four, surrounded - absolutely and literally surrounded at every turn, "their" corner "invaded" and taken over by the counter - protestors.

In Corporal Joe's absence, they had ZERO leadership.

Don Silva was as missing in action as Joe himself. As a "leader" in SOS he might as well have been in jail as to have been on the scene in Glendale.

In military lingo they had no "cohesion."

No one had the focus to pull them together.

Don was too focused on playing little one - up ego games and verbal sparring in close encouters with the counter protestors to be concerned about _his people_ of all things, or the kind of demo they were creating, or even the _impression_ they were making.

Without the Corporal, SOS is a bunch of keystone cops, and gallery of fools on a mission to nowhere.

With the Corporal, they at least have a stupid hothead punk frat boy at the helm who won't hesitate to lord it over them. I suppose he makes them feel right at home, little Fuhrer.

Even if he can't control himself.

if that goofball "Joaquin" were REALLY interested in saving little girls he would target the disgusting old yuppy Aryan jerks who buy Asian "mail order brides"

"You turned in the Nazis, you sent you r AIM "private" conversation to all of us.....
Just think what he can do to all of you Indy people....
Watchout for watch out!!!"

This "OC" person, who could be more than one person, isn't contributing anything here. I think his/her posts should be deleted.

As for what I could do to the "Indy people," exactly what? I haven't joined a side or group. I'm on my own for the most part in exposing Gilchrist for the liar he is.

As for him/her posting my first and last name, that's probably a good thing. That way if anything actually does happen to me, people will know who to investigate. And because of that, I'm sure no one from the Gilchrist camp would be that stupid.

But I do know that either someone from the SOS/Gilchrist side is being a goon to me or someone from their opposition has infiltrated one of Jim Chase's online Yahoo groups. Or "OC" is more than one person.

Even if I'm involved in some effort out there, who says they have to put me in a position where I know sensitive information? I'd rather keep things simple for me. That's if they don't trust me and that's fine. But when I started in the Gilchrist campaign, I truly believed in it before I knew any better.

Leslie's solution may have a point. I'm not sure if she means deleting the border, but yeah, for the sake of human life I'm sure the U.S. can hold more needy people. And yes it's important to weed out the probably terrorists and the drug traffickers.

Yes, SOS had a bad day. Infact, it's been a bad closing of the year for the SOS/Gilchrist people. Gilchrist loses the Congressional election. I find out some things about the campaign. Not to be self-flattering, but SOS and Gilchrist lost me :-). I'm going public on Gilchrist, Mary Parker Lewis, etc. The Cal Border Police initiative will not get enough signatures, that much is obvious. SOS gets pwned in Glendale and Joe gets arrested. Right or wrong, he got arrested. Oh well, what a year! Right?

As for extending the 5 down to the freeway, it wasn't a serious suggestion I was proposing. It was a quick idea, even a funny one, that I typed the moment I thought of it. I was just thinking, okay, if a certain idea worked, then build modes of transportation for people to come here, go back, come here, go back, however they would need to.

As for priceless video of "subhuman behavior," I can always refer to the footage I have of SOS/Gilchrist people in Lake Forest :-).

Res Ipsa Loquitur

[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/joaquinsantiago/CristerosSignatureSOS.jpg[/IMG]

let's see...

pf?

What does pf mean?

Yes footage. But to make it public would affect some people very personally so I won't do that. There are limits.

If I were to meet you in person, perhaps I would show you. It depends on who you are and if I can have a discussion with you and get some thoughts from you.

Wow!

I would love to be in a cell with Joe Turner!
He is so CUTE!
Blue eyes on top of all this!

Wish we could do a little more! Heheheheheh

Horray for Joe Turner!

American hero!

Not all Hispanics are on La Raza's side.

La Raza stinks!

You Mexicans stole the southwest from our people!

The Indians and The Spanish!

GO BACK TO MEXICO!

When I said I'm not in the La Raza crowd or whatever, I just meant any of those groups in direct opposition to SOS in their own ways. Such as Mexica Movement, believe me I'm not on their side. Or any Aztlan berets or anyone from the "La Raza" college organizations that may oppose SOS. That's what I mean. I realize I'm posting here a lot but I just felt I had some replies to reply to.

I'm prepared to go public when I figure out just exactly how. And I'm not the only one. And I'm sure there will be more like me. And I will personally reach out to Gilchrist supporters, Minuteman members, etc in person to tell them what I know. Not to flat out say "don't vote for Jim" or "these people are Nazis!" but to state what I know and they can decide what to do afterwards. There is plenty that the supporters aren't being told. One way to look at me is someone who fell for it then got out. Another way is that I'm someone who at the same time had a free mind and their thing didn't last long on me.

I'm sure Gilchrist and others won't like what I'll be doing. I'm already being called a "plant" and stuff. A whistle-blower sure. But not a "plant." I'm a human being.

I've already been speaking with a couple people so far. Letting them know what I know for their awareness. And I WILL continue to do so. The truth will come out.

"You Mexicans stole the southwest from our people!

The Indians and The Spanish!"

uhh hello?the spanish are NOT "native" to the southwest or anywhere in the americas.and mexicans are indians themselves.

It's true. If people in SOS were organizing against, say, staffing agencies that bring over undocumented workers for larger companies, then all the opposition would shrink.

Cliff, your thread died, get over it. No one seems to think what you are saying is all that earthshattering. Try Canada, soon.

You know, your plan could use a bit of work, but it actually does address some of the issues. I think you are being naive tho. I continual river of humanity of that magnitude will effect your life someday like it has mine, and you will sing a slighly different tune. I still think the total # should be limited since there are just so many. Otherwise, open borders would not be as bad. We have had open borders for 200 years anyway, its just that things have gotten SO bad down south, that they are just PILING in here.

error

error

The decal on the back of that truck is a Maltese Cross. The Maltese Cross originated more than one thousand years ago at or about the time of the crusades. It is not a "nazi" symbol. It's a traditional European symbol. IT was a popular symbol with surfer types some years ago.

Here's a thread for you dumb asses to get educated:

http://www2.prestel.co.uk/church/oosj/cross.htm

Yep, and the swastika was really the symbol for peace as used by the buddhist monks so anyone who uses it must be a buddhist monk because they used it first. Why, anyone who says other wise must be one of those jews that control the media I hear so much about.

For courage under fire. ( 2nd class )

Therefore, vegetarians are Nazis.

by johnk
"It's true. If people in SOS were organizing against, say, staffing agencies that bring over undocumented workers for larger companies, then all the opposition would shrink."

John,
Which staffing agency would that be? I have a better idea, why don't we go after the people who are promoting Corporate Globalism? Which as we know is displacing these Mexican workers. In case you don't know, in the US a big advocate of Corporate Globalism is the Council on Foreign Relations. Unfortunately for us, they are located in Washington DC. However, the Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations is Peter Peterson. He also is the Chairman of the Blackstone Investment Group, which happens to have an office in Century City. If you want to go after the rich globalists, why not scedule a protest in front of their office?

Or would you rather waste your time protesting against a fantasy you have created called Nazi SOS? How the heck will that stop Corporate Globalism, protesting against something that doesn't even exist?

The Iron Cross (German: Eisernes Kreuz) is a military decoration of the Kingdom of Prussia, and later of Germany, which was established by King Friedrich Wilhelm III of Prussia and first awarded on 10 March 1813. The Iron Cross is only awarded in wartime. In addition to the Napoleonic Wars, the Iron Cross was awarded during the Franco-Prussian War, and the First (WWI) and Second World Wars. It has not been awarded, nor any other form of a military decoration to honor or bravery, since May 1945 in the German Bundeswehr.

Adolf Hitler restored the Iron Cross in 1939 as a German decoration (rather than Prussian as in earlier incarnations), continuing the tradition of issuing it in various grades.

Although the Iron Cross is often associated with Nazi Germany, it is an old German symbol and the cross design (but not the specific decoration) is still used by Germany's armed forces (the Bundeswehr).

The Iron Cross has also been appropriated by several American sub-cultures after WWII. In particular, motorcycle clubs, surfing and skateboarding culture, and the hot rod and custom car cultures use the symbol in various forms.

It is also used by The West Coast Chicanos, a Nazi group if there ever was on.

Way to go Joe!

Common Sense?:

"Human Trafficking only occurs because people are not allowed to travel freely from mexico to the U.S. Notice that right now at this moment you can travel to Mexico from the U.S. and back again by showing your license/passport at the border."

Wrong again, many millions of Mexicans are allowed to travel to the US for business and pleasure. They have laser visas and come come and go freely. Just like many millions of Americans travel to Mexico for the same reasons.

"If it were that easy for the people in Mexico then the immigrants would come work, stay a while, and go back home,"

An immigrant is someone who moves to another country to establish permanent residence. Now you are re-defining immigrant as a migrant worker? Which is it?

Well as it turns out in a survey 60% of Mexicans would like to come and work in the US and stay here permanently, so I guess your term of immigrant is correct. I guess you better come up with a different plan.

And one more thing. It is very difficult for Americans to go work in Mexico, and/or become a permanent resident. Much more difficult than it is for Mexicans to come work and/or become a permanent resident in the US. So in your comparison, it already is "that easy" for Mexicans to work/immigrate to the US.

Leslie:
"I proposed this here long ago, but let me try it again--open the borders! Screen people like the U.S. does at airports, against lists of terrorists and convicted felons. In one stroke, you force traffickers, terrorists, and smugglers into the desert.
They'll have the resources to "protect" U.S. citizens, the U.S. labor market will stabilize, maquiladoras will dry up. Of course, this plan screws corporations that want to exploit international labor here and abroad, another bonus."

What a brilliant plan! Increase the US labor force 30% by adding 50 million people to the current labor force of 150 million. This will stabilize US wages 30% lower than what they are now. I am sure every American worker will love you for lowering their wages 30%. But tell me again how lowering their US labor costs 30% will screw corporations? Plus they will still be paying Chinese workers $2 a day.

then why SOS is harassing Day Laborers? also, why dont SOS harass the CEOof walmart for give low wages?

Common Sense:
"The fact is that immigration to the U.S. both legal and illegal, from Mexico, will never end, no matter how many obstacles you put up, until the quality of life and economic situation in Mexico becomes such that people no longer feel the need to immigrate to the U.S. - Duh! So instead of dealing with the symptom why not try to cure the cause by telling George Bush to seriously invest in mexico and its infrastructure. Why won't you do this, because its easier to pick on the guy on the corner than the guy in the White House. If you feel this is not your responsibility then stop bitching about all the "illegals" and the mexicanization of the U.S. You know what the real problem is, so fix it!"

The per capita income in Mexico is $9600 a year. The per capita income in Costa Rica is about the same. Why are there over 10 times as many Mexican illegal aliens per capita than Costa Ricans? It's because in Costa Rica, this income is more evenly distributed, while in Mexico much of it goes to the 15 Mexican billionaires. Forcing the US taxpayer to invest in Mexico's infrastructure will not change this unequal income distribution. If anything it will probably make it worse. But if you Indymedia nuts want to make billionaires richer, go ahead and personally give them some of your money.

"Adolph Hitler renewed use of the Iron Cross in 1939 and superimposed the Nazi swastika in its center. Following the fall of the Third Reich, the symbol became strictly prohibited in post-war Germany. Today, the symbol is often displayed by neo-Nazi groups, especially as jewelry (e.g., pendants). The Iron Cross without the swastika is also frequently used as a hate symbol in the same manner as the Nazi-era Iron Cross. It is sometimes used for shock effect as it conjures up images of Nazi Germany and its military without being explicitly Nazi itself. In this guise, it is often displayed on clothing and accessories." -ADL

Sadly continuing the sinister dimension of the Iron Cross is the that this symbol is often displayed by neo-Nazi groups, especially as pendants. The Iron Cross without the swastika is also frequently used as a hate symbol in the same manner as the Nazi-era Iron Cross.

It is sometimes used for shock effect as it conjures up images of Nazi Germany and its military without being explicitly Nazi itself. In this guise, it is often displayed on clothing and accessories. This is the present sinister connotations of the so-called 'Maltese Cross' - which in fact is an Iron Cross as used by the Nazis and the present day neo-nazis.

The U.S.A. can quit sending assassination teams into Mexico or funding same to eliminate progressive political leaders who would address economic inequalities. Remember the assassination of Luis Donaldo Colosio? And then the police chief of Tijuana where it occurred?
These people move away from their family and homes to survive in a nation under the thumb of their northern super power.
"poor Mexico, so far from God; so close to the United States"

El Chivo,

SOS no harass Day Laborers.

SOS harass employers who hire Day Laborers.

SOS harass Home Depot.

Home Depot help employers hire Day Laborers.

Wall Mart no longer hire illegal aliens.

SOS not labor union. Only labor union get Wall Mart workers higher wages.

Ask AFL-CIO about Wall Mart.

I'm not 100% certain of the names of the temp agencies, but one was staffing a food factory, and when the INS came around to do a raid, many of the temps vanished. Another staffed an import company, and other businesses requiring labor, and when some workers went to get a check, they were a little late, and the staff bullshitted them and said that they would forfiet their money if they're late. It's not definitiive that these are undocumented people, but, consider what's going on.

John,

I give you names and locations of organizations and people who are pushing Corporate Globalism. You instead want to go after some minor player mysterious companies of which you provide almost no information? I guess that is all your brain can handle.

why dont SOS protest at Home Depot HQ?

Home Depot HQ in Georgia.

Georgia 3000 miles away.

Plane ticket $500.

You pay SOS $10,000 so 20 members can protest at Home Depot HQ?

I dont see any where on shirt Home Dept it said only "Illegal Aliens we dont want you"

A car had an iron cross symbol on it, PLUS a German flag. I see a no-brainer!

Thanks Chivo for posting the picture, seriously. I'm wondering if that vehicle could have been driven by a Nazi looking for me. Or maybe I'm just worrying. :-)

Someone posted this:

"El Chivo,

SOS no harass Day Laborers.

SOS harass employers who hire Day Laborers.

SOS harass Home Depot.

Home Depot help employers hire Day Laborers.

Wall Mart no longer hire illegal aliens.

SOS not labor union. Only labor union get Wall Mart workers higher wages.

Ask AFL-CIO about Wall Mart. "

SOS, and yes Gilchrist campaign people, have harrassed and argued with day labor workers. I have it on tape!!

Yes they harrass employers too. Or people they suspect, very quick to take pictures and yell at them. Okay, maybe there's deductive reasoning. Still, the behavior didn't look good with Gilchrist signs. But then again, maybe it's fitting.

Don Silva, since when were you concerned about discussion continuity here? Are you afraid I'm speaking out too much? Hmmmmm.

"You have the right to return to Europe. You do NOT have the right to be on THIS CONTINENT. Anything you say or do can be used to deport you back to Europe, where you belong.

Should you wish to consult an immigration attorney, that's your problem once you get back to Europe.

Do you understand that you are an illegal alien since 1492, just as ALL Europeans are on this continent? If not, too bad."

Police apprehend a member of the "Hitler S.O.S."

So, where does that leave him?

A newspaper article said Turner's stepfather was "hispanic"...

" Do you understand that you are an illegal alien since 1492"

I know it's alot of fun for you silly kids to throw that one out there as if it actually meant something, but obviously it's eroneous.

The folks who were already here in 1492 didn't have the fucking WHEEL yet, let alone any sort of laws or society that would even start to make anything "illegal".

Basically, the continent was up for grabs.

Hey internet:

What is the URL for the police report you posted?

Thanks for posting it its very helpful and useful information.
I wish there were more that instead of all the rants you have to scroll through to find what you need.

Well, it's a start.

It's my experience that such people always show their true colors eventually. Maybe they'll all get arrested and have extensive police records that can be used to show, explain, and expose what these people actually stand for.

Goiod job, everyone.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

Actually, Mexicans INVENTED the wheel:

http://www.delange.org/Jalapa2/Jalapa2.htm


See this museum page with photos
(created by a nice white couple).


EUROPEANS NEVER INVENTED THE WHEEL:
the wheel came from the Middle East.


Look these both up.

"Hispanic" refers to a Spaniard, a white person of European descent.
Mexican is a person of Indigenous Ancestry on this continent.

If his Stepfather is Mexican, then this whole SOS thing is just his Oedipus Complex projected because of the fact that a Mexican is getting it on with his mommy.

Poor little stepchild..


---------------------------------------------------------
clarification
by Sam
A newspaper article said Turner's stepfather was "hispanic"...
---------------------------------------------------------
Actually, Joe Turner's Father is Mexican
by Facts
So, where does that leave him?

"Maybe they'll all get arrested and have extensive police records that..."

That's what I was thinking, they're not gonna have enough police records to burn through to last the entire year of 2006.

European Union is a great example of No borders. Can we do it here with the countries near by? Also, they want to add turkey too.

I see a "linda" spewing the same old debunked claims but what's also been debunked is "COmmon Sense's" notion that these SOSMM people are against illegal immigration.

If you look at the comments by these people -- underscored by the likes of "Border Raven" -- you'll see that it's the browning of the United States that these people appear to hate and fear, not illegal immigrants per se. Their comments in their message forums talk about their hate and fear of how brown people allegedly turn cities into pig stys, toilets, and other such claims.

The suggestion that George W. Bush and the rest of his mass murdering fascist regime care about illegals one way or the other is just wrong. They don't care. All they care about is committing treason and crimes against humanity against brown people in the Middle East. They don't care about illegal immigration one way or another.

Look at what the SOSMM and "Border Raven" scumbags post here and in their own message forums. Read what they say about brown people in general. Watch as they attempt to throw a thin veil over their core ideologies by glibly and belatedly proclaiming they're only against _illegal_ immigration. Then read on and observe their pejoritive exclaimations about how their cities are being over run and destroyed by brown people.

How can anyone look at these people and accept their occasional claims that they're only against illegal immigration?

Do they drive through towns with heavy Canadian or Swedish illegal immigrants and proclaim those towns are "pig stys" or "toilets?" No they do not. They don't because the illegals are white.

Obviously someone among the SOSMM crew who's honest would immediately proclaim, "But whites don't shit all over the place" and attempt to justify why they focus on brown illegals and not white illegals -- but I don't think we're ever going to see an honest rendition of what it is these people stand for.

If you think I'm mistaken -- and I damn well might be; nobody's right all the time and we all labor under our prejudices and bias -- get on to their web sites and read their own words. Then see if they're really against illegal immigration or whether their words and rhetoric is more accurately conveyed on their Storm Front and National Alliance web sites.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

How amusing. The origins of various Nazi symbols are posted as if that detracts from the fact that they _are_ Nazi symbols. And ignoring the fact that the symbols are on a SOSMM vehicle doesn't make the fact disappear, either.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

I wasn't working in those two situations, so I'd need permission to snitch out the temp agencies. Also, I'd need to find the actual name of the first agency.

These temp companies exist, mainly, so that the larger company had some deniability about hiring undocumented people. They might take a 50% commission, which is the 'tax' that allows companies to union-bust and hire and fire at will.

Maybe with this latest round of anti-immigrant hysteria, we can pass another law that will cause a third tier of temp agencies to develop. These agencies could provide labor to temp agencies, which would interact with the companies. This third tier would be operated, mainly, by immigrants who would tolerate having their businesses shut down repeatedly.

You see Johnk, this thread is COMPLETELY off topic. You're talking about undocumented labor and temp agencies. Fred is, of course, going on about nazi symbols for Christ's skae, and the topic is the ARREST of some guy Joe Turner. His arrest. not his politics. Not the clothes of some guy in a protest picture and not temp agencies.

And yet everything seems to be fine as utterly off topic as it is.

Since I am not a retired ICE. or IRS agent, and I feel I can make a difference, at the street level, I work the local day labor sites and centers. I'll try to make a difference where I feel I have the better chance of making a small difference.


Jim Gilchrist has formed “OPERATION SPOTLIGHT”, a Minuteman Project Operation and part of MinutemanHQ.com. He has formed a network of former and retired specialists from the American judiciary system. They are assembling to legally provide to law enforcement agencies incriminating evidence of deliberate violations of state or federal immigration, tax or employment laws.

THE MINUTEMAN PROJECT IS LOOKING FOR A FEW GOOD VOLUNTEERS FROM THE FOLLOWING VOCATIONS:

PROSECUTING ATTORNEYS (OR JUDGES)

RETIRED OR FORMER MEMBERS OF THE JUDICIARY FROM ANY LEGAL DISCIPLINE, ESPECIALLY THOSE WITH SUBSTANTIAL PROSECUTORIAL EXPERIENCE IN:

IMMIGRATION LAW
TAX EVASION
CIVIL RIGHTS*
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATORS

RETIRED OR FORMER INVESTIGATORS WITH SUBSTANTIAL EXPERIENCE IN THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DIVISIONS OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING, OR SIMILAR, AGENCIES:

BUREAU OF IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT (ICE)
UNITED STATES TREASURY - INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE (IRS)
ATTORNEY GENERAL
INFORMANTS

INFORMANTS ARE WANTED WHO HAVE LEGALLY OBTAINED PRECISE INFORMATION LEADING TO THE INDICTMENT, ARREST AND CONVICTION OF ANY PERSON OR BUSINESS ENGAGED IN THE ILLEGAL ALIEN SLAVE LABOR TRADE, INCLUDING THE SMUGGLING, HARBORING, OR HIRING OF ILLEGAL ALIENS, OR THE EVASION OF EMPLOYMENT TAXES OR REQUIRED WORKER'S COMP INSURANCE ON SUCH EMPLOYEES.

ALSO, THE PROJECT IS INTERESTED IN INFORMATION CONCERNING FRAUD COMMITTED BY ELECTED OR APPOINTED PUBLIC OFFICIALS, OR THEIR EMPLOYEES.

FOR EXAMPLE:

VOTER FRAUD
FRAUDULENT QUALIFICATION FOR ANY TYPE OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE
IDENTIFICATION FRAUD (DRIVER'S LICENSE, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, ETC.)
MISSION OBJECTIVE

SEEK CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS AND CIVIL PENALTIES UNDER EXISTING FEDERAL AND STATE LAWS AGAINST:

EMPLOYERS (OR THEIR AGENTS) WHO HAVE WILLFULLY EXPLOITED THE ILLEGAL ALIEN SLAVE LABOR MARKET IN VIOLATION OF LONG-STANDING IMMIGRATION, TAX AND LABOR LAWS.
OPERATORS OF SO-CALLED "SAFE HOUSES" WHO HARBOR ILLEGAL ALIENS SMUGGLED INTO THE UNITED STATES.
PERSONS CONDUCTING ILLEGAL HUMAN SMUGGLING OPERATIONS, ESPECIALLY THE SMUGGLING OF CHILDREN FOR SEXUAL EXPLOITATION.
PERSONS ENGAGED IN DOCUMENT FRAUD RELATIVE TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.
THE WEB OF VOLUNTEER ATTORNEYS AND INVESTIGATORS WILL COMPILE AND REVIEW EVIDENCE LEGALLY PROVIDED BY RELIABLE INFORMANTS AND DETERMINE THE LIKLIHOOD OF SUCH EVIDENCE RESULTING IN CONVICTIONS OF VIOLATORS UNDER EXISTING STATUTES. THAT INFORMATION WILL BE PRESENTED TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY CHARGED WITH THE INDICTMENT, ARREST AND/OR PROSECUTION FOR SUCH CRIMES.

TARGET VIOLATORS AND GEOGRAPHICAL AREAS

ANY VIOLATOR IN ANY OF THE 50 UNITED STATES.

VOLUNTEERISM

THE MMProject "OPERATION SPOTLIGHT" IS AN EXPERIMENT IN VOLUNTEERISM AND, LIKE THE ORIGINAL MINUTEMAN PROJECT OF APRIL 2005, CURRENTLY OFFERS NO SUBSIDIES OR COMPENSATION FOR PARTICIPANTS.

THE TASKS AT HAND ARE NOT FOR THE MEEK, THE WEAK, OR THE SELFISH OPPORTUNIST. IT WILL TAKE PATIENCE, STOIC DETERMINATION, INTEGRITY, AN UNDYING SPIRIT FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE…AND A FIRM BELIEF THAT THE CORNERSTONE OF THIS GREAT NATION, THE FIRST AMENDMENT OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION, IS THE LODESTAR TO A POSITIVE AND RESPECTABLE RESOLUTION TO THE ILLS OF A NATION VEERING TOWARD LAWLESSNESS, SOCIAL MAYHEM, AND A SHRINKING MIDDLE ECONOMIC CLASS.

TO JOIN THIS PROJECT, PLEASE REPLY DIRECTLY TO James Gilchrist VIA EMAIL AT: spotlight@minutemanhq.com [all lower case]

CUTTING OFF THE MONEY FLOW TO POLITICAL CORRUPTION

THE MINUTEMAN PROJECT HOPES TO BUILD A FINANCIAL POWERHOUSE COMMENSURATE TO THAT OF POLITICAL PARTIES CURRENTLY DOMINATING AMERICA'S POLITICAL ARENA. IT IS HOPED THAT TOP-OF-THE-LINE PROFESSIONALS FROM THE JUDICIARY, LAW ENFORCEMENT, MEDIA, AND ACADEMIC VOCATIONS CAN BE EFFECTIVELY EMPLOYED TO RETURN THE UNITED STATES TO ITS TRADITIONAL GOVERNANCE BY RULE OF LAW. TO THIS END, MASSIVE EFFORTS IN THE FORM OF FINANCIAL, PROFESSIONAL, AND VOLUNTEER RESOURCES ARE NECESSARY.

A MAJOR GOAL OF THE MINUTEMAN PROJECT IS TO LEGALLY CUT OFF THE FLOW OF CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS TO POLITICAL PARTIES AND CANDIDATES WHO DO NOT EXPLICITLY PROMOTE THE ACTUAL ENFORCEMENT OF U.S. IMMIGRATION LAWS. REMEMBER, IF A CANDIDATE DOES NOT MAKE IMMIGRATION LAW ENFORCEMENT THE VERY FIRST ITEM ON HIS/HER POLITICAL AGENDA WHILE CAMPAIGNING, THEN THAT CANDIDATE WILL CERTAINLY IGNORE THE ISSUE WHEN HE/SHE TAKES OFFICE.

POLITICAL DONORS ARE ENCOURAGEDTO DIVERT THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS TO GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE MINUTEMAN PROJECT (AMONG OTHERS THROUGHOUT THE U.S.) ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN THE SUPPORT OF THE LITERAL EXECUTION OF U.S. IMMIGRATION LAWS, OR TO POLITICAL CANDIDATES WITH AN ESTABLISHED AND VISIBLE HISTORY OF PROMOTING THE ENFORCEMENT OF U.S. IMMIGRATION LAWS.

* CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEYS

THE MINUTEMAN PROJECT, AND SIMILAR ACTIVIST GROUPS AND THEIR VOLUNTEERS, HAVE SUSTAINED NUMEROUS VERBAL, WRITTEN, AND PHYSICAL ATTACKS BY INDIVIDUALS, MOBS, AND CERTAIN ORGANIZED GROUPS WHOSE SOLE INTENTION IS THE SUPPRESSION OF THE RIGHT OF AMERICANS TO FREELY ASSEMBLE AND SPEAK UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

THE MINUTEMAN PROJECT NEEDS ATTORNEYS TO PROVIDE PROTECTION OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF ITS VOLUNTEERS. VIOLENT PERSONS, LOCAL ANARCHIST POLITICAL LEADERS, AND ORGANIZED CRIMINAL ELEMENTS HAVE JEOPARDIZED THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS OF U.S. CITIZENS THROUGH ORCHESTRATED AND PRE-MEDITATED PLANS TO SUPPRESS SUCH RIGHTS BY ENGAGING IN INTIMIDATION AND ACTS OF VIOLENCE, INCLUDING PHYSICAL HARM AND THREATS OF HARM AND DEATH.

IF THOSE ENGAGED IN THIS CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR ARE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE, THEN THEIR HARD-FISTED MADNESS WILL EVENTUALLY INCLUDE THE CENSORSHIP OF RADIO AND TELVISION TALK SHOW HOSTS, NEWS REPORTERS, AND ANYONE ELSE SEEKING TO FREELY EXPRESS IDEAS OR OPINIONS UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT. THESE FASCIST ATROCITIES ARE SUGGESTIVE OF A SADDAM HUSSEIN REGIME.

A MULTI-ETHNIC GROUP OF AMERICANS

THE MINUTEMAN PROJECT IS JUST ONE OF MANY MULTI-ETHNIC GROUPS OF AMERICAN VOLUNTEERS ENGAGED IN THE PROACTIVE SUPPORT OF U.S. IMMIGRATION LAWS AND THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES CHARGED WITH THE EXECUTION OF THOSE LAWS. PARTICIPATION IS OPEN TO ANYONE REGARDLESS OF RACE, COLOR, CREED, SEX, DISABILITY, AGE, ETC.

INQUIRIES

INQUIRIES FROM ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT OR MEDIA ORGANIZATION ARE WELCOMED.

THE MINUTEMAN PROJECT RECOGNIZES THE PRICELESS VALUE OF BOTH THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND THE LAW ENFORCEMENT ORGANIZATIONS THAT ASSURE THAT THE RIGHT TO PEACEFULY ASSEMBLE AND SPEAK IS PROTECTED.

WHILE THE MINUTEMAN PROJECT MAINTAINS A VERY PRO-MEDIA POLICY, SOME INFORMATION BLACKOUTS WILL APPLY DUE TO THE NATURE OF THIS PROJECT.

Cheers,

James W. Gilchrist,
BAJ, BSBA, MBA (Taxation), CPA (Ca.) - retired
Aliso Viejo, California.
web site: www.minutemanproject.com


http://www.minutemanhq.com/project/

BTW -- I knew this crowd would love that. :)

Look how well it is oworking in France

People who protest againist SOS in Baldwin Park were Americans. I doubt that all americans agree with SOS. Maybe a single digit number do. American Hispanic loves a dictatorship like Augusto Pinochet.

also, SOS can rally for Augusto Pinochet in America so they can have a government they want.

> You see Johnk, this thread is COMPLETELY off
> topic. You're talking about undocumented labor and
> temp agencies. Fred is, of course, going on about
> nazi symbols for Christ's skae, and the topic is the
> ARREST of some guy Joe Turner.

By golly it's a good thing we have fresca here to tell us all what we're supposed to be talking about. Without fresca's guidence, why we might just end up talking about Michael Jackson or mustard sandwhiches!

Here's a clue, fresca: Trying to pretend that the assault against temporary workers facilities and white supremacist symbology can be differenciated from Turner's violent assault arrest is silly. They're the same subject, the same arena.

In fact you don't even deny the Nazi and Confederate flags, nor the self-described white supremacists and all the rest. What you clowns deny is that you "invited" your own members that you want to distance yourselves from, much like Christians pointing at each other and glibly proclaiming, "They're not TRUE Christians."

And while clues are being handed out to those who desperately need them, here's another for fresca: By their fruits ye shall know them.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

ok mrmeican,
take a clue from your gf poochochoo
and slide off,
or maybe you are pochochco
back with a new nicker.

either way, you do not represent in ANY way
the concerns of the INDIGENOUS PEOPLE

the mexica/spanish/xicano/european movenment
is false
and has no bearing in ANY way to
the we/us INDIGENOUS PEOPLEs

look up 'canat' 'ca nat' ' native american' 'native'

dont even think about
you are nothing but posers
and weak fakers
mexica you are going down, you and your weak lies
are getting flushed down the
toilet.....

ps.
i have no great hatred for any
mexican/latino/hispanic.
Except for when a certain deluded FEW
(a FEW and i understand that it is not the
majority, that would commit these EVIL LIES
against my PEOPLE's)
would attempt to
STEAL or SPEAK FALSELY about my
INDIGENOUS CULTURE........

you(every one) will KNOW
these LIARS by their nom de lies
'xicano, meshica, mexica, etc, etc."

its ok ,,, to laugh about them
because they are EXPLOITERS
and THEIVES of
all NATIVE PEOPLES Cultures.

they have no Legitamacy
or claims.
Unlike me and MY PEOPLES ,
who are the REAL NATIVES.

so fuck you mexica, go to hell with your RACIST LIES.
and NEVER seek to insinuate that
you have any part of me or MY PEOPLEs

P.P.S

yes it is TRUE that we are AMERICANS
and damn well PROUD of it !!!

I know that the out-of-ass-speaking xicaono
is vehemently anti-american.
and all is well... think again
we are coming for you fakers and liars
exploiters and theives, grave robbers.
you got no where to hide now.

NATIVE PEOPLE CAN SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES !!!
WE know the TRUTH suckers!

you lie to yourselves, but you CANNOT fool a NATIVE
bwoiii!
peace to all , and to all a good night..
God Bless America,

Pachuco here, the one and only!

Canat, it gives me pleasure to know that I made a lasting impression on you.

I see you still can't accept that the Nahua peoples of Mexico are the descendents of the First Nations.

to the fake ass indian who claims ca nat

there are many native americans who try to escape poverty through casinos, but you don't change the devil, the devil changes you.

there are many native americans who try to escape
poverty through military service, but you don't change the devil, the devil changes you.

if you choose the side of the white man, I pity you.
sometime we have no choice but to become agents of imperialism and the christian god who murdered our ancestors.

if your christ is the one who brought the white man to my country, murdered my brothers and sisters and children,
and sends my children to murder those who I have never known and never hurt me.
then your christ is my enemy.

some native wisdom for your cracker ass...

"Offtopic" is a judgment call.

I personally like meandering, endless discussions. I *really* like them. But, a lot of people don't. I think people really don't like it when the first batch of posts are offtopic. They're going in, reading the article, and finding offtopic posts like, down at #3, and bickering and attacks by post #5. That's not good. It's selfish of the two people in that conversation to hijack the thread.

At some point, the discussion will meander, but, right at the top, it should remain on topic.

Maybe the offtopic button should vanish after a few days.

It's very common for topics to do that in message boards, forums, blog format replies, etc. Infact I think I got a little off topic just now in the "Progress through Dialogue" post. Didn't mean to.

How eloquent...lol.

kill the whiteman... keep dreaming. It's all you have.

Figures that the gagster who attacked Fresca for trying to stay on topic and has a pointless gag website about Elmer Fudd is the author of this distortion, which people believe only at peril of deluding themselves and developing a defective analysis:

" white supremacist symbology can be differenciated from Turner's"

which was defective in its negation.

SOS is not about race it is about preventing massive rapid populations shifts of third world persons from agrarian and old fashioned industrial sectors with low education INTO the imperialist center where their skills are not much in demand, their language is not the lingua franca, and they will be forced to go into crime, welfare or long term structural unemployment while driving wages down and destroying what is left of organized labor.

The left is essentially now aligning itself with a mixture of lumpenproletarians, old school proletarians with 19th century skills and agrarians (peasants) rather then with the vanguard of the proletariat.

SOS is aligning itself with the labor aristocracy (but not the corrupt labor union bureacracy which LA )

To some extent, SOS is actually some kind of laborite movement.

But contrary to the rhetoric, it is not anything like neonazi and specifically rejects that kind of racism.

SLoppy thinkers who keep trying to tie them to nazism and racism look like idiots when their supporters show themselves in communities of color - Terry Anderson being only one of many famed examples.

pachoocho,
you have given EVERYONE
hours and hours of ENJOYMENT!

your inane replies to my statements,
your wild and wacky snippets and
confused posts
have given
the world a sense of relief
and humor
that has sorely been lacking in recent days.

in other words, poacaku, you are a clown.

I could not have wished for a
more IGNORANT, RACIST
EXPLOITIVE, COLONIALIST
feces for brains constituant
of the so-called "aztshammovement".

It's always nice when the fools like yourself
wank their colonial agendas
in plain sight.
C/S

Whatever "laborite" means, maybe SOS is it. During past political conflicts, some segments of labor have sided with racist or right-wing political movements. More ofteh, they have taken a more righteous leftist position.

For example, labor was instrumental in the lynching of Chinese people when they were the targets of work-related hate. Members of the working class lynched Black people migrating from the South. During a few wars, labor has taken the pro-war side. Very early in the UFW history, that union got in fights with Mexicans (but they stopped that). Both big prison guard unions support expanding the prison industrial complex.

The fact that some union people, and some unions, take a political positition doesn't sanctify the position. It doesn't mean they represent all unions.

There were other unions that organized Chinese laborers. Other unions created Black-White-Brown solidarity in the midwest. The UFW eventually changed its position on the undocumented. And some segments of the labor movement finally took a stand against this war. There's always diversity, and times change.

The fact that SOS has a nominally pro-labor argument, doesn't negate the fact that they also have an explicitly opposed to labor solidarity. SOS is not a union, nor does it seek to organize workers into one.

Your so-called "aristocrats of labor" are dinosaurs, and that aristocratic attitude led to many unorganized temp workers, and thus, to the huge temp agency business. Why should some temp agencies get paid for the very same job that unions could have been doing? It's because of the aristocratic attitude of labor, who ignored this growing part of the industry.

As for racism -- they're racist and anti-Mexican. Just go search through the archives. The history is there. Their actions speak louder than words. The presence of a few minorities doesn't mean a project isn't racist. That's just tokenism to cover for the offensive reality.

The purpose of SOS is to be a vanguard group hoping to revive another Operation Wetback. If the movement grows, their minoritiy members, so beloved now, will be tossed aside, if charges of racism die down.

You forgot one work. SOS is anti-ILLEGAL Mexican. Just like they are anti-illegal Chinese, Canadian, Russian, Brazilian, etc. Yes, SOS does focus on Mexicans more than these other nationalities because Mexicans are 80% of illegal aliens. And because Viscente Fox is the only foreign President saying the US has to take his unwanted people. If you don't want to accept these facts then I guess that is your problem.

As for SOS turning into into the KKK after all illegal aliens are deported, that is a laugh. There would not be much of SOS left, since over half of their members/ supporters are non-white and/or legal immigrants. The latter group includes me.