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Nican Tlaca Stand Up to Cowboys

by Leslie Radford Sunday, Nov. 27, 2005 at 5:17 PM
leslie@radiojustice.net

In a protest against the minutemen, the Mexica Movement defies modern conquerers intent on dividing their nation.

Nican Tlaca Stand Up...
mexica_movement.gif, image/gif, 515x285

BURBANK November 26, 2005--In a formidable display of organization and discipline, at 9:00 a.m. fifteen members of the Mexica Movement and a handful of their supporters stood in opposition to thirty-five minutemen at the intersection of West Alameda and West Olive Avenues.

With matching T-shirts, their flag, an 8-foot banner, and carefully crafted signs, Mexica Movement stretched their forces along forty feet of the corner, in somber and determined contrast to the minutemen to the south, some of whom bounced from foot to foot waving small U.S. flags over their heads to old Beatles tunes.

About fifteen Burbank police oversaw the demonstration. One, at least, seemed not unhappy at protecting the Mexica Nican Tlaca of the Anahuac nation: when asked if he understood the inherent racism of the minutemen, he responded that he was second-generation Italian.

The minutemen were outside of the NBC studios protesting a recent episode of "Law and Order," in which a fictional group called The Countrymen murdered border crossers. The minutemen's bullhorn was commandeered by two of the four African-Americans standing with them. One was homeless advocate Ted Hayes, sporting a U.S. flag draped around his neck. Hayes, who once tried to have Food Not Bombs members arrested for feeding the homeless, had concocted a short-lived plan with Border Watch leader James Chase to transport homeless people to the Minutemen's border actions. Today Hayes broadcast, "Uncle Tom was the good guy. Hitler was good at first. Then he started killing people." He and the other spokesperson called on the Mexica Movement to debate them. They added, "I thought Black people couldn't be racist."

Mexica Movement maintained their discipline with only occasional shout outs to members for "calma." Chant sheets and clear leadership kept the Nican Tlaca in solidarity with chants of "our land, our continent" and "NBC was right: Minutemen are racist."

Two minutemen crossed the broad boulevard to provoke the Mexica Movement crew, but they responded by keeping their sings between themselves and the provocateurs and forcing the intruders to the side of the demonstration. Two police officers ordered the two to return to their side of the street.

Fox News, Telemundo, two independent filmmakers, and a bevy of minutemen photographers recorded the protest.

At noon, the minutemen erupted into a chorus of "God Bless America" and drifted away. Mexica Movement waited them out, did one last press interview, and packed up their gear.

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Mexica Movement

by Leslie Radford Sunday, Nov. 27, 2005 at 5:17 PM
leslie@radiojustice.net

Mexica Movement...
nbcstudios11-26_015.jpg, image/jpeg, 329x200

error
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minutemen

by Leslie Radford Sunday, Nov. 27, 2005 at 5:17 PM
leslie@radiojustice.net

minutemen...
nbcstudios11-26_002.jpg, image/jpeg, 322x118

error
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Hey Lesile, GO.... (edited)

by Report Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 7:14 AM

The Klan with the Tan, cowered behind white police officer, outnumbered by the multi ethic Minuteman Coalition!

VIva Los Minutemen!

Real Story and More Pics:

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6000
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Pictures of the Minutemen

by Report Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 7:43 AM

Pictures of the Minu...
dsc01632__2_.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

error
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What I Want

by Leslie Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 8:30 AM

What I want is not the point of this story, nor is it the point of any of my news reports. I try to save that for commentary.

But if the people indigenous to this continent came to me and asked me to give back all that I had gained from white conquest, I'd be in a piss poor bargaining position, from an ethical point of view. I've said that much before.
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please

by Me Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 9:09 AM

Leslie, you are an (edited) !!!
Racist??? Did you not see African-Americans and Hispanics standing with us?
This is America, not Mexico, If you do not like it, get the hell out!!!
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This was This was Mexico

by Ruth Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 11:01 AM

This was Mexico before it was USA. It was Turtle Island before it was Mexico.
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For the LOVE of sweet baby buddah!

by Don Silva Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 12:43 PM

Just had to come back from the dead Leslie over this one. When we have 15 people, you call it a "failure" among many other things. When the foul hate filled Mexica movement pukes come out with 15, you call it "formidable and organized"! A great example of yellow journalism and hypocrisy. Amazing.
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The Philistines

by Goliath Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 2:42 PM

Palestine and Palestinians were there first.

Even today, in Arabic, Palestine is pronounced "Filistine".

The Israelites were invaders and conquerors, not natives.

Chew on that.

It's why Israel today has such an emotional appeal to white imperialists - it precisely mirrors what happened here, in Australia, "Rhodesia," Canada, New Zealand, and of course, South Africa.

It's called a white colonial settler regime - racist imperialism and land grabbing, coupled with genocide.

It's the Amerikkkan way, buey.

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Formidable, Organized

by Cipactli Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 2:52 PM

When an organized, militant group from oppressed peoples takes a stand, it is formidable.

And, from what I have seen of them the people who countered the MinuteKlan yesterday are highly organized and prepared.

With rare exception, the MInuteKlan and SOS always look like unfocused random stragglers who wish they were home guzzling a beer.

"Formidable" is a thing of the spirit, and of the focus of the spirit.

When you're out defending your right to watch football on TV, it's not formidable.

When you're out defending your culture and your people from genocidal, Apartheid style legislation like that being proposed by SOS in San Bernadino, or from cowardly killers like the Minutemen who shoot innocent people from the cover of darkness on the border, like what happened near Tecate, then yes, you are formidable.

Put it this way:

Crazy Horse was formidable:

Custer was a vain clown.

Get the picture?




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The US is Formidable

by gotit Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 3:00 PM

Che was a vain clown.
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A Beer for the Empire

by Cipactli Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 3:24 PM

Hmmm, but the US isn't out on the street corner looking like it wishes it had a beer to guzzle. Or is it?

Of course, Hitler's Germany was formidable, too.

We see how long that lasted.

Every empire falls.

This is the final one. It'll go, too.

No, you know, I am not a real fan of Che, but unlike Custer, he was no vain clown. The man had depth.
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ABSURD

by Minutewoman Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 3:35 PM

I was at the NBC Rally - standing with the DIVERSE Americans and legal immigrants.

HOW could the counter protesters stand their with the WHITE RACIST signs when - united - American Africans, American Latinos, American Asians, Choctaw and American Europeans - stood together?

Why did they not drop their absurd whtie racist signs? What goofballs. Where was their diversity???? La Raza - the race. Hmmmm WHO is the new racist?
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More comments from the racists

by Reporting Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 4:26 PM

http://boards.brownpride.com/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1867375/an/0/page/0#Post1867375
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to "the gang"

by Leslie Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 4:53 PM

To BushAdmirer--

Well, the U.S. could start by paying reparations to the African-American slaves for their centuries of toil and abuse. The U.S. could pay the Indigenous people for all the gold, other minerals, water, and oil stolen from the continent. The U.S. could remove the depleted uranium from native lands and restore the land so that it could be hunted, fished, and farmed (without chemicals). It could provide money for education to Indigenous and Captured people to study of their cultural ways and languages. The railways belong to the Chinese. It could open the borders to free hemispheric labor, as it has for hemispheric corporations. And so forth. And when it had returned what it stole, then we'd be closer to an accurate tally of what Europeans "gave" to this continent.


To Don--

Bad move--don't ever count me out.

You guys couldn't even muster the requisite "business casual," although some of your members seemed keen on the Bunny Hop. I don't call that "organized" or "formidable."


To Minutewoman--

This time, I didn't say you were racist. I'll leave it to the Mexican/Chicano and African-American communities to decide who's sold out and who hasn't.

My observations? White people have divided the races against each other since the 17th century, conniving so that peoples who aren't white blame each other, while white people look on and smirk (kinda like Joe Turner's smirk). Black employment isn't low because of Brown workers; Black education isn't poor because of Brown students; Black health care isn't hurting because of Brown patients. Black and Brown people alike are suffering because most white people are feeling so good (remember that smirk? I didn't see it on the Black or Brown faces on either side).

I did notice that the Black guys were left standing alone after the rest of your side walked away--not one of you walked down the street with them. Try not to be that blatant next time, will ya?
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Why should I benefit?

by Leslie Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 7:04 PM

I'm didn't say we should reimburse them for what happened centuries ago--that would be a pittance. We could apologize and share the abundance white people have today, the fruits of our plundering and genocide--as the U.S. tried to do for the children of Japanese internment, and European corporations are starting to be forced to do for Holocaust descendents.

Or we could use the power we have to pull a reverse 180 and get everyone out of this mess. Or we could hope that people who aren't part of white "civilization" bail us out.

Otherwise, white people must rationalize the guilt of their ill-gotten gains, and that's how we ended up with a vision no longer than our own, measly lives. That's how we've taken "civilized" humanity to the brink of extinction, and we will probably take much of the rest of life on this planet with us if we keep steering "civilization" toward that "deep end."
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Reparations is like Inheritance

by johnk Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 8:36 PM

In this country, we have the right of inheritance.

That's parallel to a right for reparations for past wrongs.

Inheritance is one primary way that ill gotten profits are given to future generations.

I'd be all for saying "no" to reparations, if the country would distribute the wealth of dead people back to all the people. Eliminate inheritance with a simple 100% estate tax. So, when Bush Sr. .dies, his kids get nothing (in fact, we'd have to do a little accounting to see how much Bush Jr. *owes* us). All gifts above $50k are returned to the estate, and back to the people as a tax rebate.

Then, ever person would be born a little more equal, with equal opportunities.
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THEY'RE ALL DEAD? WHAT A LYING EXCUSE!

by Cipactli Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 11:13 PM

"Bush Admirer" pulls the oldest trick in the book "They're all dead and it's not MY fault."

Well, NO - We're NOT all dead and YOU benefit from the destruction of our land, our cultures, our peoples.

My people and Black people were still being lynched IN MY LIFETIME.

Blacks have the highest incarceration rates in the WORLD - Call it the New AAMERIKKKAN APARTHEID.

One in TEN hate crimes are committed against Indians, (and most hate crimes are committed white men) - - rates far surpassing every racial and ethnic group, although Native Americans make up less than 1% of the population.

ALL of this is a product of:

1. European Culture
2. History
3. Europen economics

ALL of it is the RESULT AND CONTINUATION of WHAT WENT BEFORE.

Or do you think somehow that Black incarceration rates don't reflect Jim Crow, and that Jim Crow didn't reflect slavery?

Or do you think that the rate of hate crimes committed against Native Americans isn't related to movies, and that the movies aren't reflections of a genocidal European culture, history and economics?

What, do you think your hatred of MEXICANS isn't a product of history - that it has nothing to do with the historical and ongoing white hatred of INDIANS - that your whole ideology isn't rooted in the HISTORICAL premise of MANIFEST DESTINY?

Or tthat it bears no relationship to the conquest of Mexico by the US in the 1840s? Tthat the boundaries weren't redrawn to take as much land with as few Mexicans as possible- after the plan to take the whole country and put all the Indian descent people on RESERVATIONS proved impractical?

YOu want people to beleive that all this is JUST SOME ACCIDENT?

And that it doesn't matter BECAUSE WE'RE ALL DEAD?

Well, let me tell you what your wishful thinking shows, because the ONLY place we're all dead is IN YOUR WISHES.

It shows that you are an unconscious genocidal monster.

And that Amerikka is what Germany would have become, if the Nazis had won. A place where the wildest of tales could pass as a rationalization for mass murder - for genocide and its ongoing results.











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It's the old inheritance debate

by johnk Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 11:22 PM

Because inheritance causes people not to be created equal.

Our country's main ideology is that "all men are created equal." Inheritance is a great un-equalizer. Inheritance is anti-American.

The elimination of inheritance is really just a thought experiment. It's impossible to implement, but, it's something worth considering.

I'm not saying that the money should be used to fund the government, just that it should not be given to the heirs. Maybe the money should be divided equally among all the children.

In that scenario, if you have an average number of kids, and have average assets, then the amout of money that you'd get from grandpa dying would be the same as the inheritance. You wouldn't "lose" anything except control over their money.

If the average old person dies with, say, $50k in assets, and that's what your dead kin had, then you'd still get $50k. It would just come as a check or short-term bond, or something. It's not going to really deprive the average person of anything.

If you're "above average" you're going to suffer a bit. If you're "below average", you'll get a little boost every year.
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Correction

by johnk Monday, Nov. 28, 2005 at 11:28 PM

I realized I made an error there. The sum you'd get every year wouldn't be 50k, but 50k/years-eligible, where years-eligible is the number of years that a child is eligible to get the benefit. If they are eligible from 13 to 18, then they will get 10k a year, perhaps as a 5 year bond that matures during their early adult years, when they can reinvest the funds into education or starting a family.

So, no, children would not go hungry if inheritance were eliminated. In fact, they would probably do a lot better than they do today.
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Money?

by pete nice Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 5:11 PM

Inherited money is just someone else's dead labor anyway. That's dead labor that could be used to feed starving kids.
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That would not help you very much

by < guess > Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 6:23 PM

You see, Bush Admirer, the taxes you would encounter, for all those nasty social programs like national health care and housing and education would make you un happy, particularly after you found out that they also have inheritance taxes.
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Leslie

by Tramp Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 6:56 PM

The high percentage of unemployed blacks and hispanics can be directly attributed, at least in part, to an entitlememt mentality (read: the desire for a Welfare State). Why work when welfare pays well? Why get a job when food stamps are given to you? I once knew a black woman who had been on welfare for 18 YEARS. The sad part is that she was perfectly capable of holding a job. But she wouldn't bother to work because 'society owed her'... so she spent her days leeching off of hardworking people. And she wasn't the only one like that in my old neighborhood.

The problem is that we reward failure and punish success.

As for SOS... They are far more diverse than "La Raza" and the rest of the race based hate groups you mistake for 'cultural gatherings'. La Raza is nothing other than a brown KKK. Likewise for similar Aztlan groups.

The Left shouldn't preach too loudly about 'diversity' when they spend their days allied with race based hate groups.

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It was Mexico for 37 years

by Border Raven Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 7:42 PM

This land was under the control of Mexico, for 37 years. Gold was discovered, but ignored, by the Spanish, because they were too focused on converting all of the natives to the Church of Spain.

Mexico picked a fight with the young USA, and the USA combined military forces, whooped ass, did an end-around, and captured Mexico City. Check Mate!

The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (1848), ended the war and settled the dispute. Get over it and get on with your miserable life.

There is no way, in today's political climate and with the powers of the President and the American government, and the military might, that any lands will be surrendered. Any three people who form any kind of a group to that effect has been infiltrated. your trash is being intercepted and your every word, tossed into some FBI/CIA/DHS file.

About the only land you can ever claim as yours will be the dirt of the internment camp, they ship your butt off to.

I will still to this day use the TOGH(1848) to whatever advantage I can find.



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JohnK

by Border Raven Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 8:07 PM

In my 50 years of life, I have trraveled the world, and met the poorest of the poor, who were happy. I have seen a 3-year old child, on top of a truck load of garbage, digging for a meal. I have seen people with little or no education, come to America, or born into poverty, who through hard work, luck and determination, rose up to be wealty and successful people.

Success and wealth are possible goals, if you have self-discipline, strength, and morales. Sadly only 2 percent of of the population have those attributes.

Bill Gates for example, happens to own a company, that produces and sells avery popular product line, that many people want to buy. he and his wife and his company, give money away to charities at such an alarming rate, but he is still wealthy.

We need more like him.

His is a story or luck, timing, being in the right place at the oportun time, and making the right choices.

Think!
What can I do with my time, my brain, my mind to reach my desired lifestyle, or goals?
What am I going to do tomorrow/today/now to achieve my goals?

This is an equal oportunity.






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BA Logic

by johnk Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 8:14 PM

Here's BA's debate style: I'm talking about direct redistribution of wealth that was owned by dead people. He brings up income taxes and government.

They have nothing to do with each other.
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Nican Tlaca Scheduled Appearances

by Border Raven Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 8:15 PM

Nican Tlaca or Mexica-Movement

Scheduled Appearances

2005
Nov 26 NBC Studios Burbank CA

Dec 24 Mexcio City MX

2006

TBA -- Bogota Columbia

TBA -- Rio de Janero Brazil

TBA -- Vancouver BC Canada

TBA -- Montreal Canada

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AU Estate Tax = None

by johnk Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 8:31 PM

I just skimmed a page about Aussie estate taxes. They don't have one. However, the inheritance can trigger income taxes. Their income taxes are a little higher than ours.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~dutch/answers.html

If you go to NZ, don't plan on getting rich. They have a 12.5% GST, which is like a sales tax or VAT. They also have a special progressive tax on businesses. On the other hand, they do have a special program for kids, where low and middle income people get some money for raising kids. The government also sets rates for child support.

Yeah, that sounds like a great place for BA. Later dude!

Someone has to pay for social programs. Logicallly, it must be the people with the most money, because, they have the money. By definition, people who are poor lack the money necessary to buy themselves out of poverty.

It amazes me that one large faction of the Republican party spends so much energy trying to defy this simple logic. (Then again, at the other end of their spectrum, they're arguing for "Intelligent Design", so, there's a lot of illogic they support. What next? Human sacrifice to appease the fire god of the volcano?)
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Bill Gates

by johnk Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 8:47 PM

The concentration of great wealth causes a lot of problems. It always has, and consistently led to the fall of empires. Look at the ruins: Chaco canyon, the Maya, the Incas, the Romans, the Greeks. All those great concentrations of wealth didn't come from thin air, but by shifting wealth from the many to the few.

The presence of Microsoft (or any other monopolistic entity) squelches competition. If a company creates some software product, and then MS signals that it's going to copy it, investment capital for the innovator will dry up or slow to a trickle. MS doesn't even need a working product -- even the *discussion* that the leviathan is coming will cause the money to get nervous.

(This is one of the reasons why Open Source is still getting investment. Investors see no-win situations competing with MS to sell canned software, so, they try to attack by selling services.)
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morals?

by pete nice Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 10:18 PM

Border Raven, what does having morals have to do with being wealthy? "Successful" corporations function as completely amoral entities and the people that run them are beholden to the bottom line, not doing what is right.
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Capitalism

by johnk Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 11:17 PM

I think the main things you need to "make it" in capitalism are:

- the ability to sell something (obviously)
- some math ability to keep on top of accounting
- capital, or access to capital
- people to work for you

If you're not the kind of person with all these skills, you can team up with others to round out your skillset. Maybe you have a dominating personality behind a friendly demeanor and know how to convince people to suck up to you -- you can be a manager of some kind. Maybe you're a socially retarded nerd with math skills -- go handle the money. Maybe you're a two-faced liar who preys on people's insecurities -- go sell something. Maybe you're born rich -- hand the money over to these three cash-poor people, and watch the greenbacks reproduce -- thanks to the miracle of property rights, ownership gives you special rights to profits that workers seem to lack.

Maybe you'll all get lucky and sell something many people want. Then you'll all get rich.

Nobody wants to face the ugly reality of how business sometimes works. (Not all businesses are like this, but I've seen enough operate this way.)

People want explanations about phenomena. They also want to feel like moral beings. How did so and so get rich? Nobody really wants to say it was careful conniving, profiteering, and luck. So, bring out the rhetorical hocus-pocus, and get your salespeople to write up some bull about how hard work and morals made them rich.
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Black Americans Pimp-Slap Mexican Racists

by Vic Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Check out these two proud African Americans take it to the Mexican Nazis @ NBC: http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/media/nbc_1.wmv http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/media/nbc_2.wmv
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Exploitation?

by pete nice Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2005 at 8:14 AM

I always wondered why corporations set up sweat shops in countries like Bangladesh and Indonesia... now, thanks to BA, I know, they do it so they can "attract, and retain the best and the brightest, the most motivated and career minded, outstanding people with a positive can-do attitude"

Thanks to his brilliant analysis I no longer have a "fuzzy" idea about the nature of capitalism.

Why is it that the same people that argue for lower taxes also fight to lower workers wages? Could it be that they understand that both are ways to shift wealth toward the top?
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To Vic

by El Chivo Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2005 at 8:21 AM

does the African American knows their is NeoNazi in the ranks of Jim Gilchirst and Chris Simcox. Tell them they can ask James Chase. or you can tell them to check his site at http://www.borderwatch.us/ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=16
Or they can check out this story http://www.calnews.com/archives/contreras273.htm
I am not a fan of James Chase but he has exposed your ranks.
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As usual

by pete nice Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2005 at 10:39 AM

As usual BA's responses have degenerated into downright silly anti-human hyperbole.
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BA

by pete nice Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2005 at 10:46 AM

The companies did the things that you speak of so that they could pay lower wages and in turn shift more wealth to the top. You made my point.
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Did any bring their Nazi flags?

by Fredric L. Rice Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2005 at 4:59 PM
frice@skeptictank.org

Did any of the SOSMM / NA / SF / et al. people bring their Nazi and Confederate flags this time?
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Identify with this

by AyatollahGondola Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2005 at 5:15 PM

I've stated this on our own board, and now I'll say it here. I can take this same mentality, if it really has any behind it, and employ it in a vengeful manner as well. This identifying people thing may just catch on like wildfire and pollute the board with tit for tat posts that do little to further journalistic intercourse.
I know many people here in Sac that are currently working under false names, numbers, even have repeatedly chaged ID's so they can continue to work. How about I employ this "identifying people" trick and notify first, the employers of those mentioned previously, of the fact that it can be proven they are employing people who are using false identification in order to work illegally?
Or would the fact that you don't know them at all, or that they are far away from you, be sufficient reason to insulate you from feeling bad about their resulting situation in just under a week?
And I'll remind you it's very close to christmas
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why does it need explaining

by pete nice Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2005 at 5:49 PM

Why does it need explaining that labor and capital have opposite interests?

From your perspective the American shipping industry was destroyed by organized labor. That's the perspective of capital.

Some might say that the industry sent jobs overseas in order to increase their bottom line, make more profit and compensate the workers less and also to bust the union. That would be labor's perspective.

American union workers tend to be compensated better than the labor in some other countries.

In order to shift more wealth to the top companies fight to compensate their workers less and less. Why do CEO salaries go up and the pay of average workers go down? Where does the CEO's salary come from. Who generates the wealth in the company?
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Small Pea Brains

by Mexica Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2005 at 6:53 PM
bush@gmail.com

Look, pea brains. You will always be seen on the face of the earth as the worst maggots that plunder, exploit, kill, rape, murder, and are all evil. You minuteBrains are a disgrace to humanity and most liley, hell is waiting for you to take your evil positions. You give America and every single citizen a head ache. So, Indigenous must defend their people from your evil crimes. You have not an ounce of shame. You are totally FUBR. What you minutecrap need to do is drink your beer and spit your crap as I'm sure you pracit it very well in the private of your own own hitler filthy home. You minutecrap are the sad part when the world cries. You deserve no respect, deserve nor the earth, or anything else on this planet. When you pass away, most likely, you will go someplace where the fires of hell burn and heaven looks at your pathetic please of no remorse. You minuteman are criminals!
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PSHAW

by An american Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2005 at 8:40 PM

Dude, learn to spell or use spell check...
Tsk tsk
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phsaw

by an american Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2005 at 8:42 PM

That comment was for Mexica,
by the way, there is an N after M E X I C A N
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Exploitation

by johnk Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 3:06 AM

I don't think exploitation is anything personal. It is just part of how some business operates. Every business owner is motivated to maximize profits, and that means paying as little for labor as possible.

There are businesses that don't really exploit that much (or at all, technically, if they aren't profiting), and there are those that exploit a lot. You can figure out which is which by comparing the revenues to profits, and the distribution of income within the company.

>>Successful entrepreneurs realize that attracting and holding on to the best employees is at the core of a successful business strategy. The pertinent question is: "How can I find, attract, and retain the best and the brightest, the most motivated and career minded, outstanding people with a positive can-do attitude?'

This is only somewhat true. You describes the core of a company that's relatively high-skilled, where most all the workers are skilled laborers. It could be an engineering firm, or an accountancy, or even some construction companies. (Even at these companies, they have to contract out someone to do janitorial work. And when the less-than-competent, career-minded wannabe with a can-do attitude, just can't get the job done, you hire a hard-to-manage freelancer with some real chops to get the job done.)

There are other business models out there, and they employ many times more people. McDonald's business model is to have core group of technicians who engineer the stores, do real estate analysis, and other technical things. Then, around them, are a lot of capitalists who own the stores. Some own just one McDs, others own chains. Then, at each store, there are minimum wage workers.

These are the workers of McDs. The people on the front lines and the assistant managers. The ONLY people you really want to retain are the managers, and some assistants. The others are relatively disposable.

Their disposability was engineered into the system by the engineers who dumbed down the cash registers, the accoutants who figure out the optimal number of hours you work people (but low enough so the don't get overtime), and how little you can offer them in benefits.

Yet, in the larger scheme of things, McDs isn't as evil as, say, Labor Ready, which probably, clandestinely, has lawyers who study strategies to not pay people for their work at all. These are the slaver capitalists of the present day. Somwhere at this level are the companies that intentionally hire undocumented workers specifically to screw them over harder.

There are still worse businesses too. There's gangs that operate slavery rings to supply labor to sweatshops, restaurants, and massage parlors, or sell people as domestics. There are companies that do transnational "adoption". There are car theft rings. There are credit card companies, and loansharks.
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Moving Jobs Overseas

by johnk Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 3:23 AM

I think that shipping investment probably went overseas because it made "business sense". The fact is, even if wages in the US were low, if they were lower elsewhere, and it was feasible to invest in that other country and make money, that's where money would go. The only way to keep the capital invested here would be to levy a heavy tariff on foreign ships docking in the US ports.
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Apple didn't invent it

by johnk Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 8:51 AM

Apple didn't invent the hard disk mp3 player. That goes to the Creative Labs Nomad. That followed on the heels of the Diamond Rio, which was the first commercial portable mp3 player.

Apple didn't invent the business model either. That goes, mainly, to Audible.com, which started out selling audio books online (back when DSL wasn't so popular). They had their own Audible player, too.

They didn't invent the video/music player either. Archos did this a couple years ago.

They didn't even innovate iTunes. They bought that from a third party. Even the tech it uses to display the catalog is reminiscent of how MS integrated IE into Visual Basic.

Giving credit for "inventing" the hard disk mp3 player or the iTunes business model is like saying Microsoft invented the Internet. ***It just isn't true.***

What Apple has that all these other companies don't have is capital: billions of dollars to sink into pursuing this business. They also have the existing business relationship with the Apple userbase, that's willing to infuse Apple with cash, by buying product, and also by elevating Apple stock prices by buying stock. That's goodwill, which any banker would consider a kind of valuable capital.

There are other things Apple didn't invent.

They didn't invent their OS. The original version of OS X was NextStep, which was basically BSD Unix on top of the Mach microkernel (developed at CMU, I think). The current OS incorporates many Free and Open Source (aka Communist and anti-propertarian) products, like GIMP-Print, CUPS, Konqueror, X-Windows, and FreeBSD.

They stole the desktop concept from Xerox, who, in turn took the idea from Doug Englebart's computer demos in 1969. Xerox had the temerity to try and sue Apple, the way Apple tried to sue Microsoft when Windows copied the Mac. All these companies just sue each other to prevent the spread of innovation.

What Apple innovates is the "user experience" or the computer-human interface, and also the overall marketing and merchandising of its products. Some call it aesthetics, but it goes deeper than that. It's grounded in psychology. That's what they innovated back in the 70s, 80s, and again in the new millenium. (See Tog on Interface.) Apple's innovation follows in the steps of Ted Nelson and Englebart: they treat the computer as a kind of media machine. Understanding media and creating media tools are Apple's forte.

That's not to denigrate Apple. Media is important. Also, propaganda, hucksterism, branding, spin doctoring, hype, advertising and marketing are all very important to business. Just don't call it "inventing" because that isn't what it is.

Even when Apple had it's semi-famous labs, where talented, famous people hacked on projects that never became products, I think it was partly a marketing move to develop the Apple mystique. Most of the real action seemed to come from independent software vendors trying to hit the vein of gold.

Apple does "last mile" stuff. Much of the foundation work was done by someone else, and maybe used in industry for a while. Apple takes that and makes it into sellable products. They're not making the cheese, flour, or tomatoes: they're cooking the pizza and delivering it. It's a damned good pizza too. I'll give credit where it's due. Apple makes nice products.

As for exploitation -- Jobs doesn't have to "think" about doing it. It just happens. In a business like Apple that manages at the uppermost strata of the production process, you are always trying to retain the best creative talent. You give good benefits, domestic partner benefits, a "fun" work environment, free lunches, etc.

People in the orbit of the core company get it okay too. Can't create division there, or there will be unrest.

The computers, however, are created elsewhere. They are assembled in factories in poorer countries. I recall that Apple had a factory in Ireland. Today, I think they make computers in Taiwan and China (where all computers are made, pretty much). At these sites, there's more exploitation. Maybe they get health insurance, but, there's no Friday afternoon beer bust -- the workers have to buy their own beer.

Then, there's the components. They're made in even less pleasant factories. This is exploitation that's outsourced. Apple's just buying these things on the market, not managing the suppliers. The extreme smog and poisoned rivers in these countries aren't being created from nothing -- it's like that because they're supplying tech to the world.

Exploitation takes no effort. It takes effort to *not* exploit. It takes effort to support people fighting for their own rights.
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If any of you were as literate as Ted Hayes

by Reader Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 8:53 AM

and had actually read "Uncle Tom's Cabin" you would understand why Uncle Tom is in fact the good guy.
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Another thing...

by johnk Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 9:10 AM

The reason why Apple succeeds where other companies fail is simple. Apple's a product of the American economic structure, and operates at the uppermost strata of the production process. They capture the zeitgeist of globalization, and reflect the aesthetics of globalization.

When these other companies, like Creative Labs of Singapore, try to make products, they have a harder time. They're just entering the postindustrial economy, and like a lot of grouches like me, don't think it's worth paying a top designer $150,000 to add a little spit and polish to the product.

Look at the company Samsung. We thought they were a joke, until they got fancy looking products. It took a Korean American guy becoming CEO of the Korean company before the management would prioritize aesthetics.

We're on the path to becoming The United States of IKEA.
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How amusing

by frice@skeptictank.org Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 11:38 AM
frice@skeptictank.org

> I fully understand that most liberals (yourself
> included) are not capable of debating the issues
> on a point by point basis

And your Fuhrer's war crime atrocities against the people of Iraq? Your Fuhrer's rape, torture, and genocide? How about your Fuhrer's treason against the people of the United States, including and starting with your Fuhrer's "USA PATRIOT Act?"

Care to discuss those?

Hello? Whardja go? Hello?

Right.
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Good Guy for Whom

by johnk Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 7:33 PM

This is copied from Wikipedia:

Uncle Tom is a pejorative term for a black person who is perceived by other blacks to be obsequiously servile to white authority, eager to win the approval of white people, or who rubber stamps white supremacist notions about the inherent superority of whites and its corollary, the inherent inferiority of blacks. "Uncle Toms" are perceived to take the side of whites when there is an injustice against blacks. The term Uncle Tom comes from the title character of white author Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel Uncle Tom's Cabin.

The book's Uncle Tom demonstrates an honorable grace and dignity, his story of suffering being similar to that of Job, from the Bible. Tom pities Simon Legree, for his enslavement to his wickedness; despite his wealth. He is poor in spirit in comparison to faithful, old Tom. Most blacks, however, object to Tom's passivity, willing subservience and complete lack of outrage at his enslavement, and to Stowe's paternalism in the portrayal of the loyal, patient, long-suffering Tom. They view the author's prose as patronizing, condescending, stereotypical, and emasculating. The depiction of Tom in the popular stage version of the novel also was greatly influential in popular perception of Tom as a servile, white-haired, shuffling slave who was grateful to his master.

Essentially, the accusation of being an Uncle Tom or tomming questions the accused person's integrity, or courage, or both. The implication is that the person is demeaning him- or herself, or acting against the interests of blacks, generally, for their own personal benefit, out of fear, or simply because they have been brainwashed to be complicit in their own oppression. A "tom" can be someone judged to be insufficiently outraged by, or inadequately engaged in opposition against, a status quo of white privilege and power and black disadvantage. Sometimes, the term is applied to individuals who simply are perceived as being unnecessarily accommodating of whites.

During slavery, tomming could be a cunning subterfuge. White masters often gave well-liked and trusted slaves coveted, less physically demanding duties to perform. "Faithful" bondsmen and women also tended to be watched less closely, allowing them opportunities to escape to freedom or engage in clandestine acts of defiance. A tomming fieldhand who had been bullwhipped might set a field afire or destroy farm implements. An outwardly compliant cook whose husband or children had been sold away from her might burn down the cookhouse or exact a slow and agonizing death from her master by poisoning his food with finely ground glass or other harmful substances.

Slaves also often calculatingly pandered to white supremacist assumptions about blacks. The self-referential use of the word "nigger" to their own advantage was a typical, self-deprecatory artifice of tomming. Implicit in taking on such a label was the unspoken reminder to whites that a presumed inherently morally or intellectually inferior person or subhuman reasonably could not be held responsible for work performed incorrectly, an "accidental" fire, or any other similar occurrence. Tomming effectively could enable someone to dodge personal responsibility for sometimes blatant insubordination or perceived incompetence and allow them to escape completely the wrath of an overseer or master. Acting in a dimwitted manner was another effective device, which also helped put whites at ease. Stepin Fetchit, the 1940s on-screen persona of comedic actor Lincoln Perry, was the quintessential Uncle Tom. Whites often assumed that a black person who thought of himself as a "nigger," who apparently willingly accepted his subordinate status, or who was simple-minded, posed no threat to white authority.

This practice of masking defiance or rage with acquiescence, civility and even obtuseness continues today. As in years past, tomming can be a means of appropriating and preserving a degree of private autonomy in the face of social prejudice and institutionalized racism, an act of subversion -- or even an over-the-top, mocking response to race prejudice.
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Small Pea Brains

by Mexica Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 8:09 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

There is NO 'N' in Mexica. That is the true name. Europeans call us Mexican. The Mexican true I.D is Mexica. Learn somethng will you! OH, yea....
This is our land, our Land, Our Land and Our Land. America is destroying the world because of greed. And if you racist dont change your ways, you are going to fu#$@#$@k all of us into your greedy situation where we can't breath no more, where our water is not drinkable, where the minuteman are the problem and not the solution to anything but inhumanity and savagery. America is doomed to fail along with everybody if you dont check the MinuteMan and the greedy leader in the white racist house.

Ted Hayes, you are nothing but a clown and a true traitor to your kind as well as the true slave of the white ancestors. All you need is a dog chain and some real gold teeth bling.

The following videos are something to be proud of some of your people, but you, TED, are trash!

http://www.gnn.tv/videos/viewer.php?id=52&n=1
http://www.gnn.tv/videos/viewer.php?id=52&n=2
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Minutemen Exposed By Their Own

by Mexica Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 9:00 PM
bush@gmail.com

Minutemen Exposed By Their Own

By Raoul Lowery Contreras
November 27, 2005

The media tripped all over itself in a feeding frenzy when it adopted the Minutemen Border watchers as heroes. Leading the way were Fox News Channel, its primetime star, Bill O’Reilly, LA (KFI) Talk hosts "John and Ken," and San Diego’s former mayor, Roger Hedgecock.

Joining the radio and TV talkers were politicians like Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, who called the Minutemen "fantastic," California State Senator and prospective congressional candidate, Bill Morrow and myriad little politicians and candidates like State Assemblymen Ray Haynes and Jay LeSeur.

Making these Minutemen-worshipping talkers and politicians look silly are words from the "belly of the beast," from Oceanside, California’s James Chase. He founded the Border Watch Federation (all of the USA) California Border Watch (California State) Formerly California Minutemen and United States Border Patrol Auxiliary.

Chase wrote an e-mail on November 21 to the Minutemen chat room: "I cannot continue in any way, shape or form in a relationship with Minuteman Civil Defense Corps or even Minuteman Project…"

He writes: "James Gilchrist (currently running for Congress in Orange County as the candidate of the racist-founded and based American Independent Party) wanted to skin Chris (Simcox, convicted of federal crimes in Arizona and founder of the border watchers national movement) alive…"

Chase is referring to the fact that Chris Simcox has been speaking around the country raising money for the fight against illegals then brags that his border watchers are all volunteers and bring their own resources to the struggle. Question: Where does the money Simcox raises go?

Chase: "… but then they (Gilchrist and Simcox) went to Washington and picked up the two DC crooks Mary Lewis and Connie Hair and the corruption machine was off and running." Chase and others are very critical of cocktail-party fundraisers who charge for their services and always turn up in political causes that are popular with the conservative white wing.

He continues with damning allegations: "Now Mary (Lewis) is even allowing the Nazi party into the campaign and they refuse to remove Ranch Rescue, Andy Ramirez and Cliff Linquist from their links."

When this writer and others make such observations of the movement being "Nazis," or comically deadly "Ranch Rescue," we are tagged as "the Treason Lobby." They are true American patriots and we are not; we are accused of name-calling, of emotional diatribes that we fall back on when we lose the argument. What will they say of one of their own, Chase?

Andy Ramirez is an unemployed Southern California wannabe politician who has hitched his alleged Mexican American background to such loser enterprises as anti-Mexican and anti-illegal alien California initiatives that have consistently failed to make the ballot. He made grandiose media announcements of thousands of people joining him on the Border. Twenty showed up.

Chase writes: "So you have an absolute CON man Andy (Ramirez) in your ranks sucking many thousands of dollars away from the cause."

More importantly, Chase writes: "You have murderers in your ranks. You have Nazi's, other anti-Jews, and anti-hispanic racists side by side with you. You are whom you run around with. Proud to be a Minuteman now? You may not be so proud in the future."

"I have standards of right, " he writes. In contrast, he continues: "…sending email and letter requests for money to all of our people, even to my grandchildren, sister-in-law, and distance English ex-step mother is just without all Class or regard for civility."

He concludes: "I am sad that some of you are so desperate, so gah gah, over what was a super lightning rod for anti-illegal immigration that you refuse to see that ethics and honesty is above all. May the Lord Open your eyes to see and your nostrils to smell the manure before us."

Need there be any doubt as to the sincerity of this missive, of the accusations? It speaks for itself. Will it be discussed on the "John and Ken" show in Los Angeles, or by Bill O’Reilly, by Fox News, by CNN’s Lou Dobbs, by Governor Arnold, or by San Diego’s KOGO talk show host and anti-illegal alien warrior, Roger Hedgecock, probably not.

If anyone doubts the authenticity of this missive and its views, here is the address Chase posted: James Lewis Chase Headquarters: Border Watch Federation (all of the USA) California Border Watch (California State) Formerly California Minutemen and United States Border Patrol Auxiliary 4225 Oceanside Blvd M182 Oceanside, CA 92056 760 945-5030 James@ChaseLaw.us www.BorderWatch.us

Contreras’s newest book—THE ILLEGAL ALIEN: A DAGGER INTO THE HEART OF AMERICA published by Floricanto Press is available and reviewed at www.amazon.com and www.barnesandnoble.com
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Minutemen Exposed By Their Own

by Mexica Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 9:04 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

Minutemen Exposed By Their Own Minutemen Exposed By Their Own By Raoul Lowery Contreras November 27, 2005 The media tripped all over itself in a feeding frenzy when it adopted the Minutemen Border watchers as heroes. Leading the way were Fox News Channel, its primetime star, Bill O’Reilly, LA (KFI) Talk hosts "John and Ken," and San Diego’s former mayor, Roger Hedgecock. Joining the radio and TV talkers were politicians like Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, who called the Minutemen "fantastic," California State Senator and prospective congressional candidate, Bill Morrow and myriad little politicians and candidates like State Assemblymen Ray Haynes and Jay LeSeur. Making these Minutemen-worshipping talkers and politicians look silly are words from the "belly of the beast," from Oceanside, California’s James Chase. He founded the Border Watch Federation (all of the USA) California Border Watch (California State) Formerly California Minutemen and United States Border http://www.calnews.com/archives/contreras273.htm
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MinuteMan Mingle with Nazis

by Mexica Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 9:11 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

But it's irresponsible not to mention the alleged mixing and what appears to be the virtually incestious cross polination, the Nazi and Confederate flags being waved on street corners and sidewalks, and the photographs that show these individuals standing side by side, shoulder to shoulder even as some of them -- maybe even most of them -- demand the others are "uninvited." http://la.indymedia.org/news/2005/11/140128.php
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MinuteMan Want to Kill Mexicans

by Mexica Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 9:22 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

"It should be legal to kill illegals," said Carl, a 69-year old retired Special Forces veteran who fought in Vietnam and now lives out West. "Just shoot 'em on sight. That's my immigration policy recommendation. You break into my country, you die."

"I agree completely," Michael said. "You get up there with a rifle and start shooting four or five of them a week, the other four or five thousand behind them are going to think twice about crossing that line."

"The thing to do would be to drop the bodies just a few hundred feet into the U.S. and just leave them there, with lights on them at night," he said. "That sends the message 'No Trespassing,' in any language."

"I don't really like violence, but if we did start doing what you're talking about, it would show we mean business for a change," said the group's only woman, and the only person who didn't carry a gun. "It would say, 'This is the USA, don't fuck with us!"

"Damn, I thought you were one of them," Michael said.

"One of what?" the woman asked.

"You know, animal rights, pacifism, save the kittens, all that crap."

"Well, this may sound a little weird, but I just have more respect for the lives of stray cats and dogs than I do illegal aliens."

"That's not weird at all," Michael said. "Not one damn bit."

"The only way I'd be down here is with a bunch of other white guys with guns," Michael said. "Whites are the minority in these border towns, man. They've already been taken over. This is enemy territory."

When Johnny and Michael first arrived at their assigned post on Border Road, they warily eyed a rock formation atop a hill about 250 yards away, in Mexico.

"That's a perfect MS-13 sniper's nest," Michael said. "Keep an eye out for any glints of metal up there."

http://newmexico.staughton.indypgh.org/news/2005/07/235.php
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Nazis, racists join Minuteman Project

by Mexica Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 9:30 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

Indeed, Gilchrist told USA Today, these men and women sought only to bring attention to a major social problem. Most were "white Martin Luther Kings."

"A lot of these people coming in, they're diseased," McCutchen told one group of fellow volunteers, who treated him like a visiting celebrity. "They've got tuberculosis, leprosy. I mean, you don't even want to touch them unless you're wearing gloves. So why the hell should we pay our taxes to cure them?"

One well-known extremist did appear. Armored in a flak jacket and packing a .38-caliber snub-nosed revolver, Joe McCutchen joined other volunteers patrolling the barbed wire fence separating the United States and Mexico near Bisbee, Ariz.

The men carried assault rifles in their vehicle and boasted that they were scouting "sniper positions."

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=13
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MinuteMan with Chemical weapons, Heavy Guns

by Mexica Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 9:38 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

Spent shells litter the ground at what is left of the firing range, and camouflage outfits still hang in a storeroom. Just a few months ago, this ranch was known as Camp Thunderbird, the headquarters of a paramilitary group that promised to use force to keep illegal immigrants from sneaking across the border with Mexico.

In April, Mr. Nethercott told an Arizona television station, "We're going to come out here and close the border with machine guns." But by the end of the month, he had started his prison sentence.

Now, only remnants of Camp Thunderbird remain on his ranch, a vast expanse of hard red soil, mesquite and tumbleweed with a house and two bunkhouses. One bunkhouse has a storeroom containing some camouflage suits, sleeping bags, tarps, emergency rations, empty ammunition crates, gun parts and a chemical warfare protection suit.

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2005/08/110615.shtml
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FBI fails to Screen MinuteMan and Neo Naziz for Weapons

by Mexica Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 9:46 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

Two Minuteman Project volunteers, who described themselves as members of the neo-Nazi National Alliance, pose near the Mexican border with a handmade sign bearing an image identical to that on Alliance pamphlets and billboards. (special) White supremacist literature distributed "training session," driving to the post as they blasted white power music. And they promised to return to do their "own thing." An FBI official denied that the agency was screening Gilchrist's or any other private group's members At least four-fifths of volunteers did carry weapons, and almost none were checked for permits. Racist talk abounded, and some neo-Nazis and other racists did join in Gilchrist's project. http://www.splcenter.org/center/splcreport/article.jsp?aid=150
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Racist Minutemen Terrorize Hispanics and Latinos within the United States

by Mexica Thursday, Dec. 01, 2005 at 11:29 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

"We're not going to show up as a group and say, 'Hi, we're the National Alliance," Alliance official Shaun Walker told a reporter in the run-up to the protest. "But we have members ... that will participate."


Many other white supremacists had promised to attend, including members of the neo-Nazi Aryan Nations, but it was difficult to know if they showed up.

Hernandez said. "When you fight a war, man, you go in and kill the enemy…. A signal has to be sent to Mexico and all those countries that we are tired of it and we're not going to put up with it.”[6]

The Houston Chronicle reported:

“Parmley said he has become concerned that some of the Minuteman activists in his region have a vendetta against the Goliad County sheriff, who is Hispanic. He asserted they also have made comments about shooting illegal immigrants or letting them die from dehydration. That's their mind-set, and I don't want my name and my reputation associated with a group of people who are racist like that," he said."[7]

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=2693
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Worthless Points of View

by Quizling Friday, Dec. 02, 2005 at 10:27 AM

Not even worht reading any of the diatribe from Mexica movement an chicano power RAZA ese's.

Just start it already and kill all the "whites". Fuckin idiots.
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mexica is a sham

by canat Friday, Dec. 02, 2005 at 4:01 PM

well, there you have it
the racist xichens(shickens/chickens) have come
home to roost.

a word to all you wannabee's

one word? hmmm, "frauds"

you have no claim, you have no basis
you are exploiters of OUR Native Heritage.

I would see you back on your ships with Columbus
before WE will support your false claims.
good luck
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I love this

by Evil Bastard Friday, Dec. 02, 2005 at 4:19 PM

I have a great notion for all of us. Let's join in the fight against each other for the few scraps we are left with on this fucked over - shrinking and dying earth.
Nice try you assholes.
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meaningless jabber

by MJ Friday, Dec. 02, 2005 at 6:42 PM

Thank you for proving my point that _________ don't have the intelligence to debate point by point. By lapsing into unintelligible gibberish you've positioned yourself as a bottom feeder without the ability to even comprehend the issues much less debate them. Your comment, quoted above, is just about the most utterly ridiculous nonsense I've ever seen posted here.
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Debate

by Mexica Friday, Dec. 02, 2005 at 10:03 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

There is nothing to debate. I would most certainly be talking to myself with a bunch of racist Europeans who knows nothing other than to be racist against every single people of color. Point blank is: Minutemen and Neo retards are bad news for the whole world. Just like Hitler was for the Jews and every single people who did not conform to white power short sighted one linear view. In so many words, this is our land, has been since time began. It has been, it will always be and you are running stupid with your finger in the mouth spitting racist bullets, remarks, modifying signs, twisting, and representing a threat to any living person that considers themselves still human, unlike monsters of the Minutemen.

To debate idiots with a less than -.99 is fruitless and I will grow very tired since RACISTS DONT POSSES any type of intelligence worth debating beyond that of a stone Racists always find treachery and are not trustworthy of any type of logic. Your logic of debating with racists is illogical and not founded by Socrates who would surely slap you with a fish and call you an idiot with instincts of parasites.

Just look at how the SOS has manipulated video, signs, and words. Any type of debating is sure to be turned around and used in the most improper way by the Minutemen and SOS. The issue of debate is not of yours! But racism is yours and that’s what Neo Nazis, SOS, and Minutemen are good with. Anything else is just pure hypocrisy!!!


This is our land, if you don’t like people of color, go back to Europe and stay there for good!
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Mexica you are a racist

by Border Raven Saturday, Dec. 03, 2005 at 12:34 AM

Mexica, I'll tell you what we'll do. You guys need a place to call home. You wnat to own some dirt. I know of some land in southwestern Nevada, where we could persuade the US Gov, to set aside 10,000 acres for your reservation. It is a quiet place surrounding the Sedan Crater, in Nevada, called Yucca Flat.

http://eyeball-series.org/sedan-eyeball.htm

I'll let you have it back for $24 and some beads.



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A racist calling me a racist

by Mexica Saturday, Dec. 03, 2005 at 7:29 AM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

politicians paying minuteman and
sos = all racists being used as snails. Slime being left where they trode.

some of the racists are under the governments payroll to infect, create chaos, and play wicked monsters.

MinuteMen and Sos twisting truth, words, signs, video, and morality.

true colors of the racist minutemen and sos being put and used like prostitutes!!!!!!




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Mexica_Canat and the like.

by Quizling Saturday, Dec. 03, 2005 at 10:28 AM

Shall ye alone dwell upon the earth? -- Isaiah 5:8
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Also

by Quizling Saturday, Dec. 03, 2005 at 10:37 AM

4. The “Divine Reward for Industry” Argument

Lazy Y makes a claim to the land that Industrious X has been working. But the only reason for this, provided there is enough land around, is that Y doesn’t want to put in the work X has; isn't X entitled to the land in this case, not Y?

And on and on we go, to the point of your endless stolen land diatribe and hyperbole synopsis.
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Racist Minutemen with Minds of an ANT!

by Mexica Saturday, Dec. 03, 2005 at 8:15 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

By Manuel Valenzuela

Americans were used, enslaved to the dictates of power, branded as sheeple, not people.

The disaster in Iraq has continued to regress with the same velocity and intensity as when it first started, raging onwards in a classical resistance, guerilla-style form of urban warfare that usually befalls occupying invaders of alien lands, yet as 2005 ends and 2006 gets set to begin, in the minds of millions of Americans finally out of the hypnotic, denial-laced clouds of 9/11, the time has finally arrived to show ever-increasing animosity to a war that was lost the moment the first American boots entered Iraq. Nobody, after all, likes a loser, and nobody jumps on the bandwagon of a so-called superpower nation being bled, of both blood and treasure, by a resistance with one-billionth the financial resources and military might – though possessing much more intelligence and patience – of the nation it is slowly and calculatingly hemorrhaging.

Iraq is now, and always has been, a quagmire that has turned into a suffocating and inextricable tar pit for American forces, where the inevitable defeat of George Bush's policy combines with the greatest strategic disaster in American history, where the total miscalculation of war and mismanagement of peace has resulted in the collapse of Middle East stability, making America and the world less safe, not more, where wet dreams of imperial domination, fused with delusions of grandeur have helped build a monolithic wall of bad karma that will take decades to tear down.

Iraq, like Vietnam before it, has served to remind us that, like the war on communism, the war on terror is but a charade, a fear engendering escapade, designed to control populations and empower the elite, unleashing fear onto the citizenry while delivering enormous profit to the military-industrial complex. Using Arab men as bogeymen, hidden in the shadows, without faces, countries and, with the help of Hollywood and the corporate media, with a growing brutal reputation, dark skinned Muslims replaced white Soviet Reds as the new American enemy, the new cash cow granting the government and military industrial complex a new generation of destructive war from which to bleed the American taxpayer dry, providing misallocation of resources to the former and enormous profit to the latter.

What the Iraq/Bush war shows the world is how a Cabal of Criminality, numbering less than a few hundred individuals, can bamboozle a nation into a war whose ramifications on our future we cannot yet fully comprehend. The Bush war, the single-greatest blunder in America's foreign policy history, was spawned by greed-addicted corporatists and treasonous neoconartists, presstitute lackeys and political hacks, placed in charge of US foreign policy and the propaganda acting as corporate media, easily in control of a nitwit, ignorant puppet, possessing his bully pulpit from which to spew the fabrications and manipulations needed to con America. Delusional, incompetent, dangerous and trapped in bubbles of naked grandeur, expecting fictional flowers and candy to flow from Iraqis expected to greet Americans as liberators, the Cabal of Criminality had no qualms sacrificing thousands of American soldiers, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens, for greed, power, profit, wealth and ego.

Through lies, deceit, fear-mongering, immorality, chicanery and criminality a group of a few hundred people led America into war, using the new Pearl Harbor, 9/11, with its plethora of highly charged emotions and fragile psyches, to launch a war they thought would be only the first of many, using Iraq as a beachhead to invade Iran and Syria. Suffocating inside the clouds of 9/11, blinded to reality and captured by delusion, America's normally stable citizenry was mobilized to seek revenge through war, was conditioned to hate through scapegoats, was silenced by fear and intimidation, was brainwashed to blindly follow through incessant propaganda, jingoism and Madison Avenue style marketing.

In short, Americans were used, enslaved to the dictates of power, branded as sheeple, not people, our emotions of hatred, vengeance, fear and justice used against us, making us impotent conduits of crime and murder. Complicit we became in the delusional game played by the Cabal of Criminality, where the death of 3000 people became the key to unlocking the gates of war upon Mesopotamia. The plan had been set in motion, the new Pearl Harbor was allowed to bear fruit, the cataclysmic event needed to enrage the people and grease up the machines of war would not be stopped.

With each passing year, with each passing month the Iraq/Bush war has descended more and more into chaos, a battle defined by the resistance, not the US army. Using the most sophisticated weaponry money can buy, with the most modern technologies, possessing incalculable financial resources, American forces find themselves losing to an enemy that fights against occupation and for freedom. The resistance is homegrown, composed of fathers and sons, daughters and mothers, grandfathers, uncles, brothers and cousins, all fighting an invading army they see as the catalyst of death, mass murder, burnings, maimings, intolerable suffering and cruel and inhumane collective punishment. The resistance has increased exponentially – and will not diminish until American forces are expelled – with every death, maiming, destroyed home, rape, imprisonment, shooting and act of collective punishment upon the Iraqi people, with every death of a son, father, mother or daughter.

America is the cause and the effect of the resistance, the reason Iraqis fight, whether carrying AK-47's or giving logistical support. Whether planting improvised explosive devices or acting as eyes and ears infiltrating the Green Zone, Iraqis see America as the enemy, yet one more imperial invading army thinking itself blessed by providence to claim the lands of the Fertile Crescent. A guerilla army cannot function without the support of the citizenry, and neither can the success the resistance is having against American forces. With every Iraqi death a dozen more resistance fighters join the battle, with every Iraqi death or American crime the hatred grows and calls for vengeance beckon. Trapped inside a vicious cycle of violence begetting violence, American forces have been their own worst enemy. Each year the resistance grows stronger, more sophisticated, more dangerous, learning, improving, evolving, and becoming ever more destructive. America's presence and prolonged occupation of Iraq will only exacerbate an already volatile vortex of violence.

Yet to the Cabal of Criminality lurking and slithering in the halls of power the lives of thousands of America's young mean not a thing. Tens of thousands have returned maimed, burned or scarred not only physically, but mentally as well, changed, altered, innocence lost, wickedness spawned. Tens of thousands will forever linger in the purgatory that their mind has become, lost among the ghosts of the innocents they killed, maimed, raped or tortured, haunted by the visions of death they saw and the realities of war they were forced to endure, and confront. Burning inside their minds Hell has arisen, echoing the screams of the suffering and the drips of the blood they helped spill, hearing the cries of armless children, weeping widows and fatherless daughters. Hell on Earth, after all, lies with the demons of life lurking inside the crevices deep within the mind.

Trained to maim and kill without asking questions, robbed of their ability to think independently, taught to never question authority, always following orders, no matter how immoral or wicked the assignment, these oftentimes young, impressionable, easily conditioned soldiers are forced to confront the most evil endeavor of man, that thing called war, through the prism of human psychology, not of robotic understanding. The human animal becomes unleashed in war, untangled from most precepts of humanity, devoid of those virtues that contain us in peacetime. Raw emotion and animalistic passion are resurrected with the smell of burned flesh, the taste of blood, the adrenaline of self preservation. Quickly the human mind is forced to make of the enemy a creation of subhuman birth, transforming man and women into beast and monster, a perfect way for the human mind to release the remaining morsels of morality and accept crimes against fellow human beings.

The Cabal of Criminality has transformed American citizen soldiers into conduits of human evil, importing into Iraq tyranny, American style, replacing wickedness with wickedness, negative energy with negative energy. Thousands of normal, beautiful and otherwise decent human beings have been forced to commit heinous crimes against Iraqis for nothing but lies, greed and criminality. They have been forced to combat peoples fighting for freedom from occupation, freedom from tyranny, freedom to live in security and happiness. Fighting an entire population, killing over a hundred thousand people, destroying homes, lives and futures, unleashing hatred and animosity where none existed before, American forces have been forced to confront and oftentimes displace their own morality, replacing them with the principles of the Cabal of Criminality whose unscrupulous pathology bulldozes over anything and everything standing in their way, caring not an ounce for humanity, or for the effects their actions will one day have on future generations of Americans.

The ultimate victims of these principles, besides the Iraqi people, are American soldiers who upon returning to the safe shores of the United States find themselves transformed in mind and body, their personalities affected by what they saw, what they inflicted and were witness to. Many will return with the demons of war, of human wickedness embedded, forced to relieve stresses seen and experienced with lives that have been eroded by human violence. Tens of thousands damaged physically, missing arms and legs, some burned and scarred, others brain damaged beyond repair, yet it is those psychologically maimed that will have to struggle through marriages that no longer have meaning, through jobs that make no sense, through the normalcy of life that no longer exists. Divorce, unemployment, homelessness, addictions, abandonment, Hell on Earth, nightmares and lives forever altered are the mementos for many soldiers of the Iraq/Bush war, courtesy of the Cabal of Criminality.

The Cabal of Criminality and America

Through every lie, distortion, deception and crime that led America to war a pillar of American greatness has been lost, slowly eroding the foundations upon which a great nation once stood. A beacon of hope and human rights for billions of human beings for decades, the United States now has a sitting Vice President espousing torture, rendition and the destruction of due process. For years portending to fight the "Evil Empire's" network of gulags, today America has its own gulag network throughout the vast reaches of Earth, torturing and murdering human beings, keeping hidden its atrocities, its activities, its lies. Proclaiming the Bush war as a means of cleansing Iraq of tyranny, America has nonetheless imported tyranny under the rubric of new blood and methods. Torture, rape, false imprisonment, white phosphorus, depleted uranium, collective punishment, mass murder, assassinations, insecurity, suffering and disappearances have become the hallmark of Iraq during American occupation.

A nation once admired and adored, the light that attracted freedom and democracy, has been extinguished in the minds of billions. The hypocrisy of America's foreign policy can be seen worldwide, even if it still blinds hundreds of millions within its borders. Destroying Iraq and its culture only to help rebuild it; supporting the devastating apartheid and collective punishment of Palestinians by Israel; maintaining in power corrupt kings and despots in the Middle East, robbing hundreds of millions of the same freedom and democracy proclaimed for Iraq; labeling as a threat and as dictator a democratically elected leader in Venezuela when the last two American presidential elections have been filled with fraud and controversy, whose only crimes has been helping out the people of his nation through oil revenues sought by American corporations; calling as corrupt members of foreign governments and of international organizations when America's Congress and Bush's Administration is filled to the rafters with corruption and cronies and the most unscrupulous politicians known to exist, transforming America's government into the bordello of the elite and the whorehouse of the corporatist few.

America proclaims to stand with the world but in reality trounces treaties and protocols and has become a rogue nation acting solely for its own corporate interests. Where once America's Presidents were welcome to foreign lands with open arms, flowers and candy, today only hatred and anger await George Bush, with streets filled with protests and loathing, forcing him to travel in a vacuum, surrounded by an army of armed bodyguards, made to confront the animosity on the street of every country and city he visits, having become the laughingstock of the public in the open and of politicians in private.

The new America, born in sin and arrogance, delusional in Manifest Destiny, bred in overabundant gluttony, consumerist and materialist, fathered by George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and the Cabal of Criminality, a country flocked by sheeple, ignorant and conditioned, indifferent to a world growing up around it, living delusions of empire and of omnipotence, building hatred against it and its policies throughout the planet, slowly dumbing down its citizens, losing its edge in the sciences and arts, producing a nation of acquiescent automatons brainwashed to never question authority and always faithfully follow the crimes of governance.

The new America would rather spend $500 billion a year on the military industrial complex, and an additional $200-300 billion for the Iraq/Bush war instead of on education, healthcare, Katrina, homelessness, enlightenment, equality and infrastructure, in the process condemning tomorrow's adults to a nation without wisdom, vision and equality. The new America is producer and consumer, from cradle to grave, where slave wages abound for the working class and tax breaks thrive for the wealthy, creating a growing gap between haves and have nots, between the educated and the rest of us.

The new America is a nation never reared or disciplined, possessing the attention span of ten second sound bites and the naiveté of always placing blind faith in corrupt and incompetent leadership, a land living for the present, not the future, forgetting lessons from the past, its people programmed to seek the fictions, perfections and fantasies of Hollywood and Madison Avenue, millions of its citizens doped up on pharmaceutical drugs, depressed when reality triumphs over fiction, when real life eclipses dumbed down fantasy.

America is a country lacking the wisdom of older civilizations that comes with centuries of existence, having become the bully of the world, a rogue nation ignorant of other lands and cultures, possessing a government that acts on animal instinct, not reason, ready at a moments notice to destroy the world's great cultures, with millions of its inhabitants conditioned from birth to the commands of corporate television, becoming the twenty-first century's version of the "good Germans" of yesteryear, eager to cheer upon the war crimes being committed in their name, ready to celebrate the destruction of culture and the maiming of spirit, marching in lock step to the tunes of their manipulated hatred and thirst for dark-skinned blood.

America is a land where the corruption endemic in Washington is easily forgotten, where complacency of convenience leads to complicity of criminality, where the pilfering of so-called billions of dollars in Iraqi reconstruction funds and misappropriation of billions of dollars in Iraqi aid and oil revenues by Bush and Cheney cronies and fraudsters is ignored, quickly forgotten by a populace suddenly enthralled by the next adaptation of sensationalist and mind numbing corporate media designed to distract and quickly make forget.

The Cabal of Criminality is the epitome of an America decades in the making, of a land no longer able to see the awesome spectacle of the dawn of a new day, of a nation on the decline, steadily guiding itself towards inevitable implosion. The Cabal of Criminality is the epitome of gluttony, of arrogance, greed and the pursuit of the Almighty Dollar, of crony capitalism and debauched democracy, of absolute power corrupting absolutely, a representation of what we have become, or of what we have allowed into our midst. The degenerate landfill that Washington has become, full of feces-saturated flies roaming atop governance, corruption having become their sustenance, robbing the nation blind, bending over to the sodomizing power of the corporate world, is at once both the anomaly of honor and integrity and the putrid sewer rotting the nation whole. This city, once thought the pinnacle of modern civilization, has become the cesspool ecosystem for the species called the Cabal of Criminality.

The Cabal of Criminality Exposed

The Cabal of Criminality has transformed the land of the free and the home of the brave, helping degenerate it from sea to shining sea, creating the mirror image of that which we detest the most, smearing our name with the torture devices and procedures of Abu Ghraib, the dehumanizing conditions at Guantanamo and the clandestine crime committed in all of America's newfound gulags. They have shown the world America's true colors of terrorism, from chemical warfare and Agent Orange in Vietnam to the use of white phosphorus and depleted uranium in Iraq to the sponsorship and training of thieves, dictators and murderers now roaming the planet.

This is the same Cabal of Criminality, it must be recalled, that supported Saddam Hussein in his massacres against Kurds, Shia and during his chemical warfare campaign against Iran, using mostly American made weapons. This is the same Cabal that once green lighted the rise of autocratic dictators throughout the world, severely damaging the cherished principles of human rights, freedom and democracy they now hypocritically parade at every public relations stunt. This is the same Cabal that supported Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan, helping arm and financially assisting his mujahedeen against the Soviets, calling them freedom fighters then but terrorists now.

Knowing perfectly well that the Bush war is only creating thousands more hatred-filled terrorists throughout the Muslim world, the Cabal of Criminality nonetheless continues to destroy, massacre and bomb, hoping enough enemies are created, and enough blowback boomerangs back, to sustain a decades long excuse for perpetual war and thus, perpetual profit, wealth and power. These individuals, a minute minority of the American population, eagerly await the next attack on American soil, willing to sacrifice innocent human beings in furtherance of their sinister, nefarious goals. To them, the American people are pawns, nothing short of collateral damage needed to manipulate the emotions of the masses and maintain, and expand, an immoral war without purpose, based on fictional charades and clever marketing techniques borrowed from past criminal regimes.

The Cabal of Criminality have accelerated the arrival of fascism onto our shores, mutating government with the tentacles of corporatist power, embedding their miscreant hacks, cronies and lackeys throughout once sacrosanct halls of power. They have succeeded in saturating our television monitors with pure propaganda and distraction-filled, dumbed-down programming, deploying their presstitutes in the media to manipulate, control and condition the people.

It is almost impossible to comprehend how a couple of hundred miscreants could hijack America's government, its media, institutions and foreign policy, attaining in a few years, thanks to the new Pearl Harbor, long held goals to launch human evil throughout the globe. It is difficult to realize that a few hundred human beings could deceive an entire nation of 300 million citizens, using lies, manipulations and the powers of the corporate media to march us straight into a condemned war from where no good outcome can rise. A handful of criminals, thieves and murderers, thugs and gangsters, greed-infested warmongers, have helped condemn America and the world to years of insecurity and instability for what has been done cannot soon be alleviated or forgotten.

Throughout the planet innocent people are dying every day thanks to the workings of the Cabal of Criminality, whether by a suicide bombing or by economic genocide or by market colonialism or by state-sponsored terror. The policies of the Cabal affect all corners of Earth, becoming a contagious virus in some nations and a death sentence in others, whether under the guise of free trade, neoliberalism or of fighting the fictional "war on terror." To this elite group it does not matter that Sub-Saharan Africans die by the millions every year because of AIDS, or that billions living in the Third World linger in perpetual poverty, destiny calling upon them to be born and die in an Earthly Purgatory of suffering.

The Cabal of Criminality cares nothing for 45 million Americans without healthcare, nor for the millions of socially engineered children poor, undereducated and malnourished, sentenced to become the next generation of slave labor, or the millions made homeless by the evils of twenty-first century American capitalism. Returning veterans of the Bush war, whether damaged mentally, physically, financially or socio-economically, are quickly dispatched aside and forgotten by the same Cabal that sent them to Iraq to act both as cannon fodder and as operators for the instruments of death in furtherance of corporate aggrandizement, hidden from cameras and the public's attention, seen more as liabilities to the continuance of war than as the heroes they rightly are, in the end becoming yet one more group of casualties, sent to kill and be killed for nothing but greed, profit, wealth, ego and power.

The names of those comprising the Cabal of Criminality are well known, as are most of their faces. They are traitors to humanity and America, thieves and murderers empowered by the corruption of the system and the silent passivity of the masses. They are war criminals, espousing torture, the use of chemical weapons, collective punishment, assassinations, carpet bombing, the use of depleted uranium (clandestine nuclear war), false imprisonment and the use of gulags. They have murdered over 100,000 Iraqis, over 2,000 American soldiers, all the while ruining the lives of countless more.

Tyranny is their calling card; the suppression of freedom and democracy at home and abroad the means by which they retain power. To them dissent is unpatriotic, protest is subversive, debate to their decisions treasonous. Dividing a nation is a tool of expediency; using religion and ignorance to build their base, brew hatred and stir anger is part of doing business. In their worldview, the truth is the enemy, slavery is freedom, war is peace, ignorance is strength and reality is what they decide it to be.

Driven by greed, these armchair chicken hawks, lacking the wisdom that comes with experience, march other people's children into immoral war, becoming warmongers trapped inside their own bubble, living in delusion, not able to see reality. These Mayberry Machiavelli's are amateur dictators living the wet dreams of long since dead princes and kings, trying to resurrect fiefdoms, kingdoms and empires, sustaining their bubble-filled egos with the addiction to temporary power. Desperately wanting to leave a legacy they have bumbled, stumbled and made their ingrained imbecility known through their litany of failures, becoming a laughingstock to those who know and to those who will read the future words of historians.

Yet even in the face of constant failure the Cabal of Criminality persists, for their kind tramples of anything to retain power. They are liars, connivers, fraudsters and embezzlers, the worst of the human condition, laying waste, through their policies and control mechanisms, to millions of human energies around the planet. For they are a dangerous and vicious animal, capable of anything when cornered and trapped, sleazy and unscrupulous, caring not an ounce for the consequences to their actions. They have much destruction and carnage yet to unleash, for in their actions can be seen the madness of fools, the inherent callousness of psychopathic tendencies. If left powerful and strong there is no predicting what their next move might be.

Quite simply, they belong in a tribunal, tried for crimes against humanity and against the planet, rotting away inside the dark cells at The Hague or in Abu Ghraib, imprisoned for the world entire to see, finally made to stop their madness, given a taste of their own medicine, forced to contemplate the deviousness of their actions and the results of their existence.

They are the Cabal of Criminality, a mere asterisk to history if dealt with right. They stand guilty of war crimes, international crimes, crimes against humanity and the planet. They are guilty of treason, becoming traitors to America, its citizens and what we stand for, our principles, our values and our futures. These vultures, however, will in most likelihood never see the inside of a cell, much less a tribunal, continuing to pillage and destroy the beauty of mankind, for years to come condemning us ever closer to the inevitable annihilation of our civilization.

For they are the Cabal of Criminality, not knowing, not caring and not understanding that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, that for every Iraqi resistance fighter killed a dozen more take his place, that negative energy always boomerangs back, that karma is a powerful bitch and that, in the end, the truth always rises from the ashes of lies to shed light on a new, glorious day
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Mexica get a DNA Test

by Border Raven Saturday, Dec. 03, 2005 at 9:28 PM

Go to the National Geographic Genographic Program site

https://www5.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/

This should appeal to anyone witH any early-American DNA, as it will show you where your DNA sits on the World Genographic DNA Map. Interesting note, that all of our DNA originated from Central Africa, then as male and female mated and reproduced, their offspring, mmigrated about the land mass. They migrated with the climate and food sources.

DNA test cost: $90.


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DNA Test

by Mexica Saturday, Dec. 03, 2005 at 10:24 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

Yes, I'm aware of those tests. There was a case where this white racist monster went to get a DNA test, only to find out that most of his makeup was African. This white monster with a complex of superiority could not accept the outcome and started to complain that the machine that presented the results was flawed. Poor little racist European monster started to get very upset. So, he chose not to accept the outcome and went on his way of pure white racist animal.

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Top U.S officials and Racists white soldiers kill Iraki Prisoners

by Mexica Sunday, Dec. 04, 2005 at 8:46 AM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

By Peter Phillips
Republished from Common Dreams News Center
At least 95 percent of the daily papers in the US didn't bother to pick up the story

Military autopsy reports provide indisputable proof that detainees are being tortured to death while in US military custody. Yet the US corporate media are covering it with the seriousness of a garage sale for the local Baptist Church.

A recent American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) posting of one of forty-four US military autopsy reports reads as follows: “Final Autopsy Report: DOD 003164, (Detainee) Died as a result of asphyxia (lack of oxygen to the brain) due to strangulation as evidenced by the recently fractured hyoid bone in the neck and soft tissue hemorrhage extending downward to the level of the right thyroid cartilage. Autopsy revealed bone fracture, rib fractures, contusions in mid abdomen, back and buttocks extending to the left flank, abrasions, lateral buttocks. Contusions, back of legs and knees; abrasions on knees, left fingers and encircling to left wrist. Lacerations and superficial cuts, right 4th and 5th fingers. Also, blunt force injuries, predominately recent contusions (bruises) on the torso and lower extremities. Abrasions on left wrist are consistent with use of restraints. No evidence of defense injuries or natural disease. Manner of death is homicide. Whitehorse Detainment Facility, Nasiriyah, Iraq.”

The ACLU website further reveals how: “a 27-year-old Iraqi male died while being interrogated by Navy Seals on April 5, 2004, in Mosul, Iraq. During his confinement he was hooded, flex-cuffed, sleep deprived and subjected to hot and cold environmental conditions, including the use of cold water on his body and hood. The exact cause of death was “undetermined” although the autopsy stated that hypothermia may have contributed to his death.

Another Iraqi detainee died on January 9, 2004, in Al Asad, Iraq, while being interrogated. He was standing, shackled to the top of a doorframe with a gag in his mouth, at the time he died. The cause of death was asphyxia and blunt force injuries.

So read several of the 44 US military autopsy reports on the ACLU website -evidence of extensive abuse of US detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan 2002 through 2004. Anthony Romero, Executive Director of ACLU stated, “There is no question that US interrogations have resulted in deaths.” ACLU attorney Amrit Sing adds, “These documents present irrefutable evidence that US operatives tortured detainees to death during interrogations.”

Additionally, ACLU reports that in April 2003, Secretary Rumsfeld authorized the use of “environmental manipulation” as an interrogation technique in Guantánamo Bay. In September 2003, Lt. Gen. Sanchez also authorized this technique for use in Iraq. So responsibility for these human atrocities goes directly to the highest levels of power.

A press release on these deaths by torture was issued by the ACLU on October 25, 2005 and was immediately picked up by Associated Press and United Press International wire services, making the story available to US corporate media nationwide. A thorough check of Nexus-Lexus and Proquest electronic data bases, using the keywords ACLU and autopsy, showed that at least 95 percent of the daily papers in the US didn’t bother to pick up the story. The Los Angeles Times covered the story on page A-4 with a 635-word report headlined “Autopsies Support Abuse Allegations.” Fewer than a dozen other daily newspapers including: Bangor Daily News, Maine, page 8; Telegraph-Herald, Dubuque Iowa, page 6; Charleston Gazette, page 5; Advocate, Baton Rouge, page 11; and a half dozen others actually covered the story. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Seattle Times buried the story inside general Iraq news articles. USA Today posted the story on their website. MSNBC posted the story to their website, but apparently did not consider it newsworthy enough to air on television.

“The Randi Rhodes Show,” on Air America Radio, covered the story. AP/UPI news releases and direct quotes from the ACLU website appeared widely on internet sites and on various news-based listservs around the world, including Common Dreams, Truthout, New Standard, Science Daily, and numerous others.

Peter Phillips is a Professor of Sociology at Sonoma State University and Director of Project Censored.
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White racists have nothing but racism to be proud of.

by Mexica Sunday, Dec. 04, 2005 at 9:47 AM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432


while bush is busy conquering other lands of culture, killing people by the war machine, exploiting and getting a full million an hour based on war crimes; chavez offers to help many poor people in america. While bush brainwashes people and lowers education scores, get the rich richer, and sends all people of color to hell of fending themselves, chavez offers hope for the poor and color. While bush and the nazis figure out ways to kill more Latin Americans to the south and in north america, chavez helps his people with education, medical care, social programs, and hope for all his people. While bush is busy trying to spy on North Americans, a way to brainwash the white nazis and exploit the people of color, bush takes candy from the poor and gives it to the rich, while bush deprives Latin Americans of education oppurtunities, state of the unbeing, bush and white house nazis tread over the world to take it over; chavez becomes paranoid over attacks from the United States of take over and MORE KILLING OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, all south american latin people. While bush gets rich beyond wild dreams, puts our education level to stupidity, white racists rize, divides the people of color; chavez is busy helping its people to be more than yesterday, to give the people hope and instead of going to the United States wished they stay in a country where hope is now theirs and not in the United States. White racists have nothing to be proud of and claim that culture derives out of a french fry, Big mac, Mcdonalds, Pizza, coke, killing gear. While the white europeas go from nation to nation, destroying cultures, white nazis rize and become the problem of the world as uncultured people and all hate. It is a mystery how the white racist european mind works! But it works in evil ways of destruction of the planet.



By Matthew Robinson
Republished from Reuters / Common Dreams
Ad campaign to inform about Citgo's humanitarian effort

Venezuela on Thursday launched an ad campaign touting its cheap heating oil program for the U.S. poor as Washington faces criticism for doing little to protect consumers from high fuel prices.

The full page ad in some of the nation’s top newspapers could irk the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, which has frequently clashed with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez over economic and foreign policies.

Under the banner: “How Venezuela is keeping the home fires burning in Massachusetts,” the ad talks up a program to supply poor residents of the state with low-cost fuel from Citgo, the U.S. branch of the OPEC nation’s state oil firm PDVSA.

“The advertisements are intended to inform about this humanitarian effort,” Dave McCollum, a Citgo spokesman, told Reuters.

“This effort came in response to the impact that hurricanes Rita and Katrina had on energy prices. It is being handled as a pilot program,” he added.

Launched in Massachusetts last month, the program will also provide low-cost fuel to New York City.

The advertisement, which appeared in The New York Times, Washington Post, USA Today and the Houston Chronicle, came out as executives from U.S. firms including Chevron, ConocoPhillips and Exxon Mobil appeared at a hearing in Wisconsin on Thursday to defend record profits.

The hearings follow a similar face-off in the U.S. Senate in early November, which critics say failed to get a sufficient explanation about how the companies have made unprecedented profits at a time of national crisis.

U.S. fuel prices soared after hurricanes damaged U.S. oil infrastructure in the Gulf Coast last summer. The high costs have become a political liability for Bush, who has suffered from lower approval ratings in recent months in part due to fuel prices.

Analysts said left-winger Chavez, who has given preferential energy supply deals to Venezuela’s South American and Caribbean neighbors to strengthen regional ties, has seized upon expected high heating bills this winter to curry favor among the U.S. population.

“It’s a publicity stunt, really. But it does give them some support among U.S. regional politicians. It’s not a stupid thing to do,” said one energy analyst who asked not to be named.

But proponents of the heating oil program say the former army officer only wants to ease the sting of U.S. winter heating bills in the Northeast, which accounts for 80 percent of all the nation’s heating oil demand.

“Chavez expressed his interest in helping the (poor) people,” Larry Chretien of Mass Energy, which is helping to distribute the cheap fuel, said.

Oil-reliant Venezuela, the world’s fifth largest crude exporter, is already a top U.S. energy supplier.

But relations between Washington and Caracas have degenerated since Chavez first won office in 1998, promising to fight poverty through his “revolutionary” social programs and increasing ties with anti-U.S. states such as Cuba and Iran.

He claims the Bush government has plotted to topple him. Washington denies the charge but says Chavez is a threat to regional stability.
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Racist Gaden Grove Police are evil

by Mexica Sunday, Dec. 04, 2005 at 10:10 AM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

white garden grove police are such a nazi joke that even white racists can laugh. racism by the minutemen and SOS are so damn pathetic. But since time began in Americva, white Europeas have always behaved in the most dishonorable way. That is how the pilgrims were able to acquire so much land, by racism, murder, torture, deceit, and most wicked european crimes the devil know to him.


THERESA DANG ACQUITTED OF ALL CRIMINAL CHARGES
UPDATE: WESTMINSTER, CA -- After a day of deliberation at the West Justice Center, a mostly white, middle-aged jury composed of engineers, homemakers, and administrative assistants found Theresa Dang, 26, of Westminster, California, ”not guilty,” on two misdemeanor theft charges for allegedly stealing a flashlight that was “lost” by a police officer at a Wednesday, May 25, 2005 counterdemonstration against Minuteman founder Jim Gilchrist in Garden Grove.

“The jury realized this case had nothing to do with a lost flashlight,” said Duane J. Roberts, one of the organizers of the May 25th counterdemonstration. “They saw that this was a politically-motivated charge brought forth by the Garden Grove Police Department against Dang for exercising her constitutional rights of free speech and assembly."

Not only was the Deputy District Attorney handling the case unable to offer any conclusive evidence proving the flashlight in question was owned by a Garden Grove Police officer, but testimony made under oath suggests they have a “shoot first, ask questions later policy.”

“It appears that Garden Grove Police put the cart before the horse,” said Roberts. “In their zeal to persecute Dang for her outspoken criticism of the way they handled themselves on the night of May 25th, they filed criminal charges against her before conducting a thorough investigation of all the facts. If they had been seriously interested in doing the latter, they would have found out she committed no crimes.”

In comments that Orange County Superior Court Judge Erick L. Larsh made during the jury selection process, an average trial like this costs California taxpayers about $22,000 per day.

“Taxpayers should be outraged that Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas wasted an estimated $50,000 in court expenses to bring this case to trial,” said Roberts. “That’s enough money to buy every officer on the Garden Grove Police force with three shiny new flashlights of the exact same make and model they claimed that Dang stole several months ago.”

Roberts further adds: “District Attorney Rauckauckas needs to drop pending criminal charges against three other men arrested on the night of May 25th by Garden Grove Police officers. The enormous amount of ill-will, mistrust, and negative publicity generated by the Dang case has tainted the credibility of that police force so badly that I doubt their testimony will be useful in convicting anybody. After seeing for myself firsthand what they did to Theresa, I seriously doubt any of these young men committed any crimes."

Duane J. Roberts
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racists dont respond to DNA test

by Mexica Monday, Dec. 05, 2005 at 2:05 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

notice how the WHITE RACIST MONSTERS dont respond to DNA tests. These people are monsters out for their own peace of pie, while killing the color people on expoitation, lies, murder, rape, and all those evil things that come with the Neo Nazis retards, right wing animals, and white europeans who give no respect and have no respect for nothing on this planet. Wonder who the save is....great devil in disguize....
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Racist brainwash European

by Mexica Monday, Dec. 05, 2005 at 6:26 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

you just spitting garbage out of your A$$. Mexico did not pick a war with the United snakes. where did you get your two cent eduation, you need to get your money back because somebody brainwashed you reall good.

No matter what, history dictates that this is our land, this is our land. Europeans have their continent, but this continent is our, not yours, ours, not yours.
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If you want it...

by Pres. Polk Tuesday, Dec. 06, 2005 at 10:18 AM

come and get it. Take it back the old fashioned way, instead of with your incessant whining and guilt-tripping.
Maybe give it back to the Olmecs, or the toucans.
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racist rhetoric from a slime ball

by Mexica Tuesday, Dec. 06, 2005 at 5:25 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

No one has to take it back, because it is already ours and it has been before the white racist came to this continent. You make it seem like it is yours, but history can attest that it is ours. You stop your racist rhetoric, running around like a little bi3424tch complaining that our people are taking over and sheeet. No body is taking over nothing, it is already ours.
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racist KKK ready to vote for HITLER

by Mexica Tuesday, Dec. 06, 2005 at 6:05 PM
bush@gmail.com 231=343-3432

Racist whites from Europe prepare to vote for Hitler. KKK and their signs says it all are ready to submit to monsters and demons. Indigenous people beware of the white monster racists Europeans. They are terrorizing in America our well being. These Minutemen freaks and sos dog pooh are real terrorists, why dont homeland security do something about these white european terrroists??? Look at the link below, you will see some white racist aligned with the KKK as terrorists.

http://www.aztlan.net/warning_vigilante_gilchrist.htm
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whoohooo!

by canat Friday, Dec. 16, 2005 at 7:07 PM

BANG !!!
another lavoxdeaztlan poster..
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p.s.

by canat Friday, Dec. 16, 2005 at 7:08 PM

that should go over well..
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ANT community responds to Mexica!

by Futile border wall strategy of Minutemen/SOS Wednesday, Aug. 01, 2007 at 12:26 PM

Mexica's comment title;

"Racist Minutemen with Minds of an ANT!"

So Mexica, what is your problem with ants? Why compare our intelligence with that of a group of humans calling themselves the Minutemen? What happened, did we nibble on your toes too much? Ants are social insects and are actually quite intelligent, in many cases more intelligent than the modern day human beings of the Minutemen's Eurocentric monoculture which allows the disruption their own ecosystem by corporations for profit..

The problem with the Minutemen/SOS (& their CIA handlers) is that they depend on futile government infrastructure measures like a mucho grande & expensive yet ineffective US/MEX "border wall" to prevent people migrating from el sur to el norte. Looking into the underlying cause of this economic poverty induced migration requires challenging WTO/NAFTA globalization agreements. Just look up Oaxaca, maize and Monsanto to understand how U.S. biotech corporations have flooded the Mexican market with subsidized rice and driven Mexican maize farmers off of their land. They didn't want to leave their homes in Oaxaca to slave away in el norte's agribusiness plantations, they left because of economic adversity brought on by WTO/NAFTA free trade globalization. Just ask Manuel "Lopez" Obrador about the effects of WTO/NAFTA on the electoral process..

"In Mexico, the undeniable failure of free trade/privatization economic model – developed by the PRI and then championed by the Fox administration -- fuels the candidacy of Lopez Obrador who has consistently called for the re-negotiation of NAFTA and has long opposed the wholesale privatization of Mexico’s strategic resources and industries. So, rather than risk the election of someone who challenges the self-serving structures of wealth and power in Mexico, the conservatives have allied to keep Lopez Obrador from even running.

Mexico’s current rulers and their silent partners in the White House apparently hope that by the time Mexico’s election arrives in the summer of 2006 few will remember what they did to deprive Mexicans of a real choice. This is where they underestimate the caliber of their opponent."

found @;
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0416-24.htm

The illogic of a border wall along hundreds of miles between US/MEX will only magnify the already existing ecosystem problems in the Sonoran desert region by preventing migration of other mammals (pronghorn antelope) who can't jump or climb over high barbed wire fences. As always the ruling parties of the U.S. ignore any consequenses of their ill concieved actions on the ecosystem..

Maybe with all the important cultural and linguistic debates between humans the plights of us animals seems irrelevent, though we're also entangled in the same ecosystem web as ya'll humans are, whatever your culture, language, ethnicity. Watch how important differences in language and culture are when NOBODY GETS ANY FOOD because human greed destroyed the ecosystem..

Try to locate the bunkers of the super wealthy capitalist ruling class, they have several years of food stored underground. While food may be in short supply on the surface following an ecosystem collapse, explosives will be free and frequent, and underground bunkers can be compromised..

Really we ants never cared much for the Euro-american system of colonialism here in North America one bit. From Columbus on, the immigrants from Europe have systematically destroyed every ecosystem here in North America (Turtle Island), despite the fact that indigenous people have lived in relative harmony here with us ants for well over 10,000 years..

We ants just crawl around on the ground picking up scraps of food that ya'll overconsumptive humans drop in the dirt along your busy highway lifestyle. Bet you think that we're quite dirty, eh??

Well dirty or not, after ya'll humans wash all the soil off the land with your unsustainable agribusiness plantation monoculturas or kill one another off with nuclear radiation in your religious delusions of "Holy War", we'll still be crawling around the ground picking up scraps of food and living in our dirty little anthills. Bet that makes ya'll big bad humans want to step on all of us little ants, eh??

Instead of getting hostile against the insect community, reconsider this US/MEX "border wall" as a series of interconnected "garden fences" that can be physically dismantled, removed and relocated to a campesino polycultura garden location of your choosing..

The land belongs to everyone and nobody, just remember this..

ANTS WIILL ALWAYS BE HERE!!

Can't say the same for los humanos!!
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Outsider looking in

by Luloc Friday, Apr. 16, 2010 at 9:52 AM
luloc559@gmail.com

I don't understand Minutemen... your parenets and ancestors are ALL immigrants. If we were to enact some kind of legislation, send all the "illegals" back and go on with our lives, is that really solving anything? Undocumented peoples DO pay taxes, on everything they buy. However, they do not file for a refund, and most would get a few thousand dollars probably. We ALL fuel the economy. If you want to get even more realistic, new information is telling us that undocumented workers are keeping the US economy afloat. Hmmm, oh yea the US is real formidable. China damn near owns our asses, we spend hundred of BILLIONS of dollars a year on the military, but how do we expect to recover for te messed up situation Reaganomics put us in... bailouts? Lets be truthful and honest. This land was stolen, annexed, swindled... whatever word you want to use... it was taken by gunpoint. Now, if we really want to, we can take back our land. There is NO military force that could stop the hundreds of millions of people that would overthrow the American Southwest. The American holocaust is coming, but what side will you be on. Will you be there "Hitleresque" community, exclusive to those who are "American?" Or will you be civil, and have nothing but love for your neighbor, regardless of where they were born. Racism and discrimination is a choice, just like war and peace. Keep listening to Rush Limbaugh, it'll rot your brain faster. I'm here if you'd like to have anINTELLECTUAL conversation, and I don't mean that in any derogetory way, I would just like dialougue WITHOUT the ignorance, just facts and educated dialogue.
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One more thing...

by Luloc Friday, Apr. 16, 2010 at 9:57 AM
luloc559@gmail.com

Google Women of Juarz or Mujeres de Juarez. This is what America has done to its neighbors, and HUMAN BEINGS. ANd... the FBI has covered it up becausewhy... thats right, American execs were raping the Mexican people yet again... and it is still happening. Shame on the Minutemen, shame on America
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