http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=5408

California

Lake Forest Day Laborer Site Protest
Geronimo Ave.
Lake Forest, California
Saturday, October 22, 2005
8 a.m. - 11:00 a.m.
This day laborer site is in the 48th district where Minuteman Founder Jim Gilchrist is running for congress. We will target lawbreaking employers at this protest, as part of the Minuteman Operation Employer. After the rally, stop by the Campaign HQ for Jim Gilchrist and volunteer some time.
For more information:
Email: FIRE Coalition Event Organizer

That's a photo of the white nationalists(or whatever they were) from the Toledo, Ohio incident. I doubt they even know who Jim Gilchrist is.

Open Border Activists - Be sure to counter protest at this day laborer site protest! We, the American citizens, will be waiting for you! Oh, be sure to bring that anarchist flag for photo ops, OK? See you there!!!

That term "white nationalist" is just right-wing-PC for "racist fascist." They just want to sugarcoat the fact.

Whatever they were, why would someone post that picture when it's unrelated to Jim Gilchrist way over here in CA?

error

But nice try.

More Indymedia lies.

I dont want to break the news but the neonazi groups are so attracted to your cause and therefore you are a neonazi sympathizer. if you are so disturbed by them showing up to you protests why dont you make them leave. SOS havent made any atempt to. WHY because you are a chicken shits. the neonazis went to several of your events. Laguna Beach, Victorville, Baldwin Park, Alhambra, etc...

here's some of the links where SOS and neonazis come together:
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133898.php
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133822.php
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133845.php

You make your racists leave, and we'll follow your example. That means all the ones that belong to groups that organize by race (La Raza, MECHA, etc), and carry signs and banners telling whites to go back to Europe. Get your black-kettle-calling-pot ass out of the hypocritical mud puddle in the back yard of your glass house, and lead by example. When we see how, or if, you can do it, we'll follow suit. But we kbow you cannot, and you will not, because it is you, and most of your incapable mud slinging band of wannabe one worlders who are the racists.

The Nazis were never welcome. We could try to make them leave, but technically by law they have the right to walk and display whatever they wanted to. So while we don't support their views and infact oppose them, we don't want to violate the laws of the country we're defending. Nazis who try to piggyback on our efforts to try to gain themselves acceptance from the general public have no sympathy from me.

If you think MEChA are the same as the KKK, you are ignorant. Same goes for the Black Panther Party. They aren't the same at all.

I don't have the link handy, but Gustavo Arrellano interviewed the guy who coordinated the anti-MEChA attack against Cruz Bustamante in the gubenatorial recall election, and even that guy basically said MEChA is no big deal. In fact, that guy even considered signing up, because during the 60s, Latinos basically couldn't get into clubs in college and get into leadership. MEChA was the only game in town.

I think the character of a chapter of MEChA depends on the school. If the school is mostly white, the club will probably be more moderate, and in some situations, they seem to be service clubs more than anything else. If it's mostly Chicano, the club will be more hard core. The one at the school I went do had career fairs and tutoring and stuff. Had I known these were open to everyone, I would have gone, because they were one of the few clubs that catered to people who were the first in their family to attend college.

The BPP started at a community college in Oakland. It was really a product of its time, and focused on improving welfare in the Black community, establishing educational programs, and so forth. From what I've read, it wasn't even an all-Black organization. Again, the character of the BPP seemed to differ depending on where it was organizing.

Compared these to the KKK or other WS groups. The focus of WS is the retention of white privilege, and a return to the days of segregation. They believe that they are entitled to eject non-white people from America, or their separatist nation of their mythology. Classically, groups like the KKK aren't entirely fringe organizations. Until recently, they had some members who had some social standing (which is probably why they wore hoods). Today, they're pretty marginalized, but, the spectre of a re-emergent "moderate" klan always hangs in the air, especially in the South.

In the early 1960s, a Klan founder, Asa Carter, was a speechwriter for George Wallace, governor of Alabama. Obviously, his founding a Klan organization wasn't a political liability then. You could be supportive of racist lynchings, and still have a shot at another term as governor. Carter put his words into Wallace's speeches, and Wallace accepted the platform of segregation and racism. Wallace didn't reconsider his position until the 1980s, so, arguably, the Klan wasn't seen as that marginalized until some 20 years ago.

Today, the WS groups are like the terrorist brownshirt arm of the larger white separatist movement.

There is simply no comparison between the MEChA groups on our side, and the nazi groups on your side.

I'm sorry, but when I see someone waving a Mexican flag on US soil, screaming at American flag wavers to go back to Europe at the top of their lungs; I see racism. Plain and simple. And if you believe that it's OK to belong to MECHA or LA Raza, or similar groups as long as at least some of them do not espouse hateful rhetoric, then maybe we have something in common.; At least according to many of the posters here.
At least in our case, we have rebuked and repudiated the wannabe nazis based on their racist and separatist agenda.
In yours, it is defended and justified. Continually. The Nazi's message is tainted. So is that of MECHA, La Raza. Move on and find one that isn't.

Lupe Moreno heads the group Latinos Against Illegal Immigration. That is something Americans with a Mexican background can be involved in.

Come to the next CCIR meeting to observe and pick up our material on the hate-group elements of organizations like MEChA and La Raza. These aren't photos and recordings of service clubs, tutoring, or job fairs or whatever. This is evidence of a war they want against America. A "reconquista" takeover.

"I'm sorry, but when I see someone waving a Mexican flag on US soil, screaming at American flag wavers to go back to Europe at the top of their lungs; I see racism."

That's called "humor."

"This is evidence of a war they want against America. A "reconquista" takeover."

Are they going to make us listen to 80s British music rehashed as Roc in Espanol? Lookit the picture: they're taking over the Ramones.

SOS person, it seem that is just a propaganda leaflet. I will read your propaganda. I will doubt it i will drive to the meeting. do u have a website about your propaganda.

To me, when i went to college, Mecha or La Raza organization was a group who does services to the community just what john k said.

I dont see Mecha or La Raza in SPLC website as being a hate group. http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?S=CA&m=3
and I see CCIR and your friends National Alliance as being a hate group.

With all due respect to my associates, is this really worth a discussion? Does anyone really think that there is any point of comparison between MEChA and VDARE or Stormfront or the National Alliance? One celebrates ethnic pride; the others celebrate ethnic superiority. One does community service; the others march through communities to tear them up. One propagates culture within its community; the others force their culture down everyone's throats. One admires Cesar Chavez; the others emulate Adolph Hitler. One espouses non-violence; the others trace their roots to the Holocaust.

The anti-migrant forces, as long as they attract neo-nazis and welcome them at their events, will always be exposed. Linking the pro-people movement to MEChA isn't going to change that. And even if they lose the neo-nazis, we know who they are.

btw, whatever happened to Joe Turner's plan to separate SOS from the neo-nazis with yellow tape? I didn't see any at their last appearance together. Seems to me the smirking Piped Piper didn't mean it, no matter what he promised to induce his lemmings to show up.

At our last appearance at Laguna Beach, we didn't need any tape because the Nazis didn't show up until we left. We didn't even know they were waiting there until they came out of hiding. Fortunately the police drove them away before they had a chance to make a presence. If they came sooner, we would have asked them to leave or the police would have driven them off anyways. When they did come, our opposition also moved to confront them and I'm okay with that in that it makes the police drive them away to avoid confrontation. If anyone of us said "yellow tape," I don't think we meant that we would literally use rolls of yellow tape to separate us from anyone else.

The same tired photos, showing just how few extremist, foreign flag saluting seditionists there actually are. That amount wouldn't even be enough for a picnic in my neighborhood. Face up to it:, numbers don't lie to damn often
Nazis or wannabe's = less than 50
Mecha, Aztalan, La Raza extremists = thousands

Your racist support group is the growing one, not the negligible nazis. Hex here has to use a magnifying glass just to show them. Everyone on this board has to use the same few pictures over and over again in a feeble attempt to show proof.
He he he..logic like that would label me Frankenstein since I have two 4 inch stitch scars on my body.
Hey! I'll photo them for Hex to blow up. He He He.....now I know what to get Hex for Christmas

http://x10.putfile.com/10/29610235377.jpg

http://x2.putfile.com/10/29620573172.jpg

Just plain old American free speech

Frankenstein was the doctor, you're the monster hehehe ;-)

Anyways, there's a CCIR meeting this Wednesday. If anyone wishes to come, just come. Just say you're there to observe. You're not gonna join or anything. Just come in regular clothing, wear something warm.

I may be there, I'll know for sure on Wednesday. Email me at civilizedcontact@yahoo.com if you want to meet up. I can show you the tables of materials through my point of view because there are a few things I was critical of. And you can speak to anyone there. We won't bite.

the effect was intending to show that since SOS's board is gone you are now here - the zooming in as in closer, not as in bigger or more

so SPL http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?S=CA&m=3
shows you'all as racists hate groups, but NOT Mecha or La Raza

The Anti-Defamation League branded Save Our State an "extremist hate group" during one of its Hate Crimes Workshops.

http://www.adl.org/extremism/arizona/arizonaborder.pdf

Border Disputes: Armed Vigilantes in Arizona, the ADL managed to "link" Glenn Spencer, Roger Barnett and Jack Foote with the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke and neo-Nazis everywhere.


And Jim Robinson’s Free Republic has pulled links to Turner’s events while suggesting that Save Our State is affiliated with hate groups and vigilantes.



Glenn Spencer of American Patrol / Glenn Spencer of Voices of Citizens Together / Glenn Spencer, Barbara Coe

Spencer is most infamous for a one-man firefight against an imagined invasion of Mexicans in his backyard, and in the process shooting a neighbor's garage.

Unlike the MMP, anti war protesters welcome, Nazis on a "dont' ask don't tell basis."

Sheehan never denounced them and the regularly appear at the anti war protest in Costa Mesa.

Rule is "just don't bring a Nazi flag."

Me thinks Indy Media doth protest too much

If that's true, wow. I emailed the guy who leads the protests in Costa Mesa every Friday. I asked him if it's okay if a Minuteman comes with an American flag. He replied saying no nazis, but the flag is welcome. Either he's a sheep and associates MM with Nazis in his mind or maybe you're on to something here.

"Border Disputes: Armed Vigilantes in Arizona, the ADL managed to "link" Glenn Spencer, Roger Barnett and Jack Foote with the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke and neo-Nazis everywhere."

Given the financial resources ADL or SPLC has access to, I could probably "link" you to Elvis Presley's burial shroud, or Bigfoots' lowered sperm count.

All this hysteria about Nazis....

Nazi scientists contributed technical and engineering skills to contribute to the success of the US Space PRogram in the aftermath of WWII.

What do Mexi-scum contribute: Cheap labor to rake leaves and scrub toilets.

Give me Nazis over worthless dumb ass Mexi-scum any day.

More and more I see Mexi-scum urinating on the sidewalk in plain sight of crowds of people when they could walk 30 or 40 feet into public buildings/malls and use bathrooms for free. Why is it so tough for the beaners to comprehend indoor plumbing?

Nazis helped build moon rockets and Mexicans can't even figure out indoor plumbing. The world is turned upside down.

> Nazi scientists contributed technical and engineering skills

They designed the ovens too, Zyklon-B and organophosphate nerve gases like sarin, tabun and soman.

wonderful ! - but Latin Americans who didn't feed into genoside are the bad guys..

I see

What!! scientists were forced to work for the Nazis in many cases.
Nazis built rockets and launched them at other "civilized" nations that used toilets by then. Beat up on illegal mexican aliens, criminal mexicans, or Aztlanders all you want to. But don't even start aggrandizing the Nazi party. Their politics were harsh. their government was dictatorial, thier people were used as cannon fodder for conquests that benefitted no one. Let's face it, they would have been eating thier weakened young by now, had they not been defeated.

The whole "xyz pride" thing is when people in a disliked group say "i'm okay." It's about not being ashamed of what kinds of shit people are saying about your group.

When people talk about "white pride," it's a different thing. For some, I can see it being that, if they're poor whites living in a minority situation. Most white people, however, aren't in that situation. They get more access to the good life, and the whole white power thing is really about sucking up to power by keeping minorities down.

"Beat up on illegal mexican aliens, criminal mexicans, or Aztlanders all you want to. But don't even start aggrandizing the Nazi party."

Just FYI. The Nazi browshirts were master terrorists. They would get wasted on beer and then beat up and sometimes kill minorities, gays, "criminals", communists, and other political enemies.

You just don't want to get your hands dirty. So you encourage the working class people you despise to carry out the bloody violence you *want* to carry out against your political enemies. Your relationship to the Hitler fans in your side is analagous to that between the middle class German supporters of fascism (you), and the brownshirts (the neo-Nazis).

I indicated criminals, seditionists, and foreigners here illegally were fair opponents for harrassment. I don't need to have others do my work for me. I do it myself. Your argument is weak, misguided, and incorrect in most cases.

AyatollahGondola, are u a chickshit? u never gone to any save our state protest. i dont care if live all the way in Staco. Joe "Turner Dairies" lives far from victorville, baldwin park, laguna beach, etc... why joe turner havent target the day laborer at ventura. he knows he will get in trouble and have to move out.

pants in fire

johnk said.. "They get more access to the good life..."

I'm not sure its possible to make a dumber statement. How, exactly, do white people "get more access to the good life" ? By what mechanism?

Did it ever occur to you that the vast majority of people, white or otherwise, live "the good life" because they WORK HARD? There are a lucky few who inherit large sums of money or wealth, but the rest of us, which is nearly all of us, work for it. I'm white but I have no special access to anything. Nor do I have affirmative action, special minority only loans, minority only college grants, and minority only contract bids working in my favor. In fact, those programs work directly against me. I am excluded strictly because I am white. Now explain to me how I "get more access to the good life"?


Everything I have I worked my tail off to get.

I'm the one standing next to Old Preach, just to his left. The pretty one with the big eyes. Actually I was just giving the stare to one of the counterprotesters behind me with the bullhorn who just bumped me in the head with it. Some guys just can't keep their hands off me. Sorry....already married.

http://images5.theimagehosting.com/a3.24.jpg

I just got back from the CCIR meeting. I'm not sure if anyone actually came to it based on me suggesting attending one. I doubt it. But I got word of a couple of people who looked like opposition who walked away when someone went towards them. If anyone tried to come and observe with an open mind and wasn't able to, I apologize. I should have spoken to some people ahead of time. One person said it's okay if you're someone with an open mind. But they're really careful about people coming in, getting our literature, and putting their spin on it. Anyways, maybe something can be organized for the next meeting. I wouldn't drive like 4 hours if you have to, just incase there's too much confusion and I'm not personally able to accomodate for you.

civilizedcontact@yahoo.com

>>johnk said.. "They get more access to the good life..."

>>I'm not sure its possible to make a dumber statement. How, exactly, do white people "get more access to the good life" ? By what mechanism?

Discrimnation and inheritance.

Every year, someone, somewhere, does a scientific study that shows that minorities with identical status or qualifications face more negative discrimination in employment, housing, real estate, and a lot of other significant things. These effects add up.

Second, one of the easiest ways to enjoy economic prosperity is to own a significant amount of capital -- a business, real estate, minerals, or other property. (In America) White people have had more access to property ownership, and thus, a longer time to accumulate property, than non-white people and women. One reason white people are wealthier is due to inheritance.

You said: "Every year, someone, somewhere, does a scientific study that shows that minorities with identical status or qualifications face more negative discrimination in employment, housing, real estate, and a lot of other significant things. These effects add up."

Likewise, tens of thousands of white students and employees are passed over for school admissions and promotions, sacrificed at the alter of political correctness and affirmative action. That is race based discrimination.


Regarding capital and inheretence... Its true that whites have more capital, but whites have no special lock on the means of gaining capital. Nor do they have any special lock on inherentance. But the fact that whites have more capital because of racism 50 or 100 years ago doesn't mean that whites today are racist. Furthermore, the capital whites accumulate today is accumulated in EXACTLY the same way minorities accumulate capital... HARD WORK.

>>Likewise, tens of thousands of white students and employees are passed over for school admissions and promotions, sacrificed at the alter of political correctness and affirmative action. That is race based discrimination.

Where? Not in California. They got rid of AA for college admissions years ago. Now, hundreds of kids get passed over for admission, to make room for the likes of GW Bush or some other underqualified son of a rich person. Thousands more are being passed over because the state mandate for educating the top 12% of grads has been reduced to the top 10%... meaning we lost almost 20% of the people's access to the University of California.

>>Regarding capital and inheretence... Its true that whites have more capital, but whites have no special lock on the means of gaining capital. Nor do they have any special lock on inherentance. But the fact that whites have more capital because of racism 50 or 100 years ago doesn't mean that whites today are racist. Furthermore, the capital whites accumulate today is accumulated in EXACTLY the same way minorities accumulate capital... HARD WORK.

In a capitalist system, the main way you get capital is by having capital. That's "capitalism." That's why the rich tend to stay rich -- they can invest their money. The second way you gain capital is by transforming labor into capital goods, like machinery for a business, or land, or something to resell. If you don't do this latter thing, you can work very hard and not make money.

Whites had a lock on getting capital for a long time. There were restrictive laws that restricted some nonwhites from citizenship, and property ownership. Also, the "free market" which was run mainly by whites, practiced open discrimination against non-whites who wished to buy land. Even today, there's real estate discrimination, where realtors will discourage minorities from buying in some areas.

These laws and practices were made illegal in the 1960s. So people have had equal access to gaining capital for some 40 years. That's not very long.

Gumby, you have to start dealing with facts, and not your fantasy about how things are.

oh, wow just one rally.

Not sure if these posts are still being read. But Chivo called the National Alliance our "friends." Dude I was at the rally at the state capitol and there was an uninvited skinhead looking doof passing out National Alliance material. I made him whine to his mentor, some guy with an "88" hat, because I spoke to the people he spoke to, explaining that he's not affiliated with us. I enjoyed ruining his day. He and the rest of those race exclusive whatever they call themselves aren't our friends. And if that shaved headed Dickies jacket wearing GOON is reading this: GOTCHA hahahahha!!!
If given the chance, I will do it again.

Yeah. Those NA, National Vangaurd people there had more of their racist materials tossed in the trash can that day than they actually handed out. Truth is, they should have been out there with the hispanic racists on the counter protester side of the capitol, as that is exactly an idea counter to our own rally. The goons should be recruiting from within those ranks, as they more fit in with that mindset than ours. But then again, maybe they did.

SOS person, I cant trust u still. I need a proof. I seen SOS laughing with N.A. in several of S.O.S. rallies i.e. baldwin park, victorvile, etc. if you want me to pull picutures up i could.

You've seen the pictures, but were you there? I don't mean that as in blowing you off. I don't know if you actually were there or not. I only came into the SOS thing starting from the July 30th Laguna rally. If you want my personal account of whatever I participated in, just email me. It would take a lot of text and effort to explain my side, which I'm afraid will still be blown off by people here anyways. I don't think Indymedia is the best place to do that, but I still like to post here.

Please educate us with your views, but i will doubt it if you are going to put your views. you are afraid too. I will decide if i am blown away Cliff.

to see what SOS want's to say

I was thinking that too right when I read that..

that's 2 people who would like to see it..

Due to your attitude I don't think it would matter what I typed and besides it would be too personal to post on Indymedia. I'd rather meet people in person to see if I think he/she is someone I can relate personal things to. And where did you catch my first name? Did someone I was emailing with tell you?

Oh, did i parade on you Cliff? are you feeling sad now.
you are giving the attitude not me. I asked you politely is there a website of your info about mecha/la raza. you leave me hanging without giving me anything. and i gave you websites and all.
as in your name, a little birdy told me.

Do u think you can change our minds by posting your crap on how racist you are by scapegoating immigrants that racist.You are just a lap dogs to the NeoNazi. YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!