This year, law enforcement in and around Los Angeles have stolen the lives of our children in outrageous manners, including 13 year old Devin Brown, 19 year old Bassim Chmait, and baby Suzie Peña. Down south, the government is applauding red neck vigilantes for their animal-like hunting down of immigrants struggling to feed their families. Around the country, thousands of South Asians or Muslims are still being arrested and detained without legal recourse. In New York, Juanita Young is persecuted by the D.A. on a bogus charge for her outspoken stance against police brutality. Lawyer Lynne Stewart, another outspoken activist, is subject to 45 years in prison for defending her client’s right to lawyer-client confidentiality. Even journalists are going to prison now for exposing government corruption, a blatant violation of the so-called “freedom of the press.”

These cases are all examples of the blatant police brutality pervasive in our neighborhoods nationwide, and the fascist repression of Bush & Company’s “Homeland Security.” This brutality happens to many of our brother and sisters on a daily basis, and is getting worse as we speak. But there is hope, and we must begin to fight back in defense of our families!

This year, on our 10th Anniversary March, October 22nd will be the day when families, victims, and all peoples can come forward and demand justice for our loved ones. It is time to hold the murdering police accountable for the stolen lives of our loved ones! We must stand up against this system’s war on the people here in Los Angeles and all over the world! It is time to demand justice for all Stolen Lives!

When: Saturday, October 22, 2005, at 1PM

Where: Broadway and Olympic in Downtown Los Angeles

october22_la@yahoo.com

http://october22-ny.org/national/

Wearing face coverings makes these people look like guilty criminals.

Yes, it's not a legitimate or reasonable assumption, but it's true, they _do_ look like they're criminals.

Yes, I know all the reasons why some choose to cover their faces. Few are legitimate.

We live in a city where the authorities maintain a policy of photographing and documenting youths, and against their
civil liberties as minors and young adults.
As for the "criminal" thing, well, they just have to depend on the
fact that not all Californians are as stupid as those who think
anything with a mask is a threat (which should include riot
police in gear, U.S. soldiers in camouflage who murder
civilians in Iraq, etc.). Its a shame that such tactics have to
be used, but who is going to protect the youth from the
authorities authoritarian tactics. Are you?

I'm glad Mexcrement wear masks. With their heavy, aboriginal, ape-like features their public appearances with masks are far less offensive and disgusting than if they exposed their faces.

(I'm ignoring the post above.)

What does it matter who they are? The beginning of anarchist masking was, I believe, that idea that individuality doesn't serve the cause. It doesn't matter to me who they are; it matters to me what they stand for.

The only people I can think of who have any "need" to know who these masked protestors are, are agents of the state, eager to identify its enemies.

Throughout history, the defense of "we all did it" has stood up well as a tool against the state. I think of the women of Nagpur collectively hacking their neighborhood rapist to death last year when the state laughed at and ignored them, of the Zapatistas' carefully hidden identities, of the Manipur women hiding their identities behind their naked bodies to protest military rape last September.

The state hides individual guilt behind bureaucracy. Racists, sexists, and homophobes couch their diatribes in accusations of the "collective responsibility" of whatever group is under attack, and they hide their real and virtual lynchings behind sheets of collective anonymity; so did the German Nazis.

Protestors in masks turn the tactic of collective responsibility back on the attacker. As long as our judicial system relies on individual guilt and individual responsibility, masks should serve the protestors well.

So if everyone wears a mask, how do you even know who is standing next to you, or why?
I would think accepting that kind of anonymity would easily allow the police, an infiltrator, a rapist, or a pickpocket to work the crowd from the inside.
You know how it is at a protest:
all the screaming; drums banging; bullhorns blaring. Hell, even a cop could smack a few people on the head and nobody would be able to identify the culprit, unless the smell of donut breath was stronger than sweaty protesters. Neither would anyone know if the police were within the ranks of protesters at the ready to make arrests; grab discarded paraphenalia for fingerprints; or start some shit so they had a good reason to disperse everyone.
A New York pickpocket, or a practiced groper could have a field day and not a person would be able to pick a suspect out of a lineup afterwards.
seems like this policy, while it may have not been exploited in this manner yet, has some inherent flaws.

Your concern about infiltrators and other unwanted masked protestors is fetching, Aya, but somehow I don't believe it. Any infiltrator is going to be unknown to the group and disappear afterwards, mask or no. The wise course is to assume any protest group is infiltrated--even yours--and most bookies would make odds on it.

You're just bummed cause you can't play "guess that protestor" with all your digital pix.

I'm not the protester identity hunter and never have been. Nor would I be unless there were some personal foul perpetrated on me by one.
In the scope of things relevent to masks, I don't see much value in the efforts of protesters who would resort to them. Think of the perception the general public has of anyone, or whole groups of people, supposedly standing up for a cause, or to be heard on a specific issue, but not wanting anyone to know who they are. The value of anonymity would be counted in negative numbers in relation to the actual effect intended. I don't take too seriously any immigration activists stated message who will not stand and be counted with name rank and serial number, on either side of the debate or conflict. Why would anyone watching video clips, or viewing media pictures of that think any differently? It certainly couldn't be due to vast numbers as they inch their way through the maddening crowd on a daily basis now, and don't get anything else but angry at the multitudes of anonymous people in their vicinity now. Mostly they don't drop that animosity until they meet face to face, and the personal contact puts things in a different light.
And as for the police:
I'm sure it's a whole lot easier for them to beat the tar out of a near faceless subject than that of a recognizable neighborhood resident, or one that has the look of human suffering. They have far too much crime on their hands to ever consider a counter offensive based on protester identities. Many of the those in the SOS group have been classified by some of those agencies (improperly I might add) as supremacists, white power, extremists or even in the gang categories by our association with protesting. Despite knowing our identities, they have not come to our houses and dragged us out for interrogations, nor have they instituted any selective attacks at the protests,or any other events, or in general. It has been a lot easier to refute any of those charges, or classifications, largely due to our public announcement. I doubt that would have been as successful had we been observed with face masks at all of our rallies.
Get a clue here. Our movement has surged forward with the help of public disclosure and identity. If all or even many of us had started out wearing masks we would be standing in macarthur park shouting at people or talking to ourselves with yesterdays clothes on, and smelling of last nights alcohol. Anonymity is the tool of madmen. Just ask Ted the Unabomber; BTK killer; Zodiac Killer; Ted Bundy; (This is a long list so I'll stop here)

"Despite knowing our identities, they have not come to our houses and dragged us out for interrogations"

Don't get out much, huh? The state has addopted these tactics and yet we are condemed for protecting ourselves at least in this monor respect?

Full body armor in black by armed and asshole jocks behind masks or stenciled POLICE vests is the real problem. Jerking non violent protesters into rude lock up is the problem. Casual disreguard for the constitutional rights of the people is the problem.
Not masks, unless you enter a bank. Then you're stupid.

(but I want to leave the impression there's a long list so I'll lie and say long)


> Anonymity is the tool of madmen.

talking out both sides of your face - you didn't post all those articles and pictures that were hidden *as one handle* much less your real name - I could just as easyly say anonymity is the tool of *trolls* - of you

YOu have one standard for you using it and a whole different standard other people



> Our movement has surged forward with the help of public disclosure

your "movement" is dying - even propped up by astroturf money & support, even with some mainstream media sensationalism


> They have far too much crime on their hands to ever consider a counter offensive based on protester identities.


they've done JUST THAT in the past - shows how much experience you have "ever consider" - makes it seem impossible - far fetched, when in fact it's been happening



> Many of the those in the SOS group have been classified by some of those agencies (improperly I might add) as supremacists, white power, extremists or even in the gang categories


post some proof I might add - I tend to believe my own eyes, URL links between you and the agencies own investigation results over you simply denying it


> smelling of last nights alcohol

the 'ol hippies smell

so if we dress the way you want (monkey suit), conduct ourselves the way you want (silent shuffle), smell the way you want (plastic/chemicals) and allow the police to easyly identify us the way you want, we gain............

nothing - you've simply boxed us in using framing, rhetorical games, double standards and (as usual) devoid of any facts / proof / supporting data

SO - posting data, facts or proof is defintely NOT what your here for

looking above at what you ARE doing, disrupting, decoying, red herring, straw man...

like here ;

> Just ask Ted the Unabomber; BTK killer; Zodiac Killer; Ted Bundy;

just be rhetorical and sell paranoia


statisticly you're more likely to be stung to death by flying insects

Due to a self imposed ban on responding to some posters cryptic messages, I'll just add to my own previous one to say I have publicly identified myself here before. But I don't mind repeating myself for those with lapses in memory.
Davi Rodrigues
Sacramento, CA
AyatollahGondola@AOL.com

The masks function in a number of ways and are worn for different reasons by individuals. This is a short list of some of the more common reasons masks are worn:

1. To hide identity. Why? There are many reasons for this. It may be to protect civil rights that might be violated by police surveillance. To guard against employers who may not approve of the protesters political views and fire them. The very real fear of police recognizing you at another place in the future and giving you a hard time or worse: arresting, beating or killing you.
2. To display colors of solidarity with your fellow activists.
3. To signal a militant stance against the policy or institution being protested.
4. To protect from inhaling tear gas.
5. To affirm commitment to a political movement such as Anarchism or Revolutionary Marxism.
6. To show the fashion of a sub-culture. The power of imagery to induce receptivity to one’s political message.
7. To engage in criminal activity and avoid arrest. Most often vandalism of property owned by or seen has a symbol of the institution being protested.

This last reason is the one that most people outside the movement think of and the one that concerns law enforcement. The association most uninformed people make is with the masked bandit of the wild west. The cartoon image of: a person wearing a mask equals an outlaw.

Also there are a wide variety of types of masks that can be worn, each with its own character and meaning. Consider the difference between a black bandana and a clown mask. Also consider the public and police associations with the two and their potential reactions. Masks can function in a number of ways.

By the way, masks are illegal in some cities. New York for example has a law against them. So street activists in Los Angeles should not let their right to mask up go unused.

“Your right to protest, use it or lose it”

have publicly identified myself here before ^

all those hidden threads and pictures on your troll rap sheet do NOT appear under this "Davi Rodrigues"

cough up the handle(s) you used on them...

I always post under AyatollahGondola. Everywhere. that's where the fertile hunting grounds are for my posts.
And, this is not the only Indymedia I post at.
http://www.indybay.org/
http://sf.indymedia.org/
http://santacruz.indymedia.org/

And here is one of the more recent deletions referenced
http://www.indybay.org/news/hidden.php?id=1772306#1772612

What's interesting is the post was hidden, but the photograph included and some further parts of that post were deleted entirely. Nothing more than a pic of Fabian Nunez that was already widely distributed, but seemingly less publicized.

C'mon now Hex, your interest in me is starting to worry me a little. You do know I'm Married, Right?

you're married - and I have a 1,000 mile long willie ?

no - the points are

1.) you were using *this* IMC's hiding as an excuse to NOT post facts

2.) your rationale is all bass ackwards, as no hidden posts from you exist on here in the first place

3.) this concern doesn't *stop you from posting more snow* - it's the only supporting facts/proof that's always missing

4.) you can't reasonably claim any facts/proof/data you happen to post would fall into the category of anything you would expect(fear) would be hidden anyway (on HERE - now)


hidden is a red herring

It is you who keep posting an effort to mislead people. But I'll let time and deeds prove my case, or my worthiness, to others and myself.
By the way, I will not be enticed by miles long willies as I am both heterosexual and monogomous. While I'm flattered at the attempt, you are advertising in the wrong neighborhood. I will make note of your puffery though. Never ceases to amaze me how other males quickly make reference to such aggrandizements, and blow them so wildly out of proportion. Oh well, I'm an immigration law enforcement activist not a therapist

you seem to forget - you brought it up, you're the one talking about the subject..

you don't see me going on about my sex life - I'm merely pointing out and exposing troll activities - one of which is to introduce diversionary subjects

back to the subject of showing yourself worthy without supporting facts - well a few other people seem to have noticed it too

I believe *current* statistics for undocumented workers

puff up some data on that