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Avakian: Religion is Religion, Communism is Scientific

by RosaRL Sunday, Jul. 31, 2005 at 8:04 AM
. . .

A Leap of Faith and a Leap to Rational Knowledge: Two Very Different Kinds of Leaps, Two Radically Different Worldviews and Methods This article was written by Bob Avakian, Chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party, in response to a letter that sent to him. In addition to attacking communism, that letter also argued against the scientific viewpoint and method and insisted that atheism is just another form of religion. This article by Chairman Avakian speaks to a number of points in that letter but focuses on the fundamental difference between a communist and scientific outlook and method on the one hand and, on the other hand, a religious worldview which relies on "leaps of faith."

Avakian: Religion is...
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Religion is Religion, Communism is Scientific

But what I want to focus on here—because it is a very important point of distortion which not only characterizes this letter but is much more broadly promoted, particularly by religious fundamentalists, and is the source of considerable confusion and misunderstanding—is the insistence that communism (and atheism generally) is actually just another form of religion and that in fact not only communism but all scientific thinking involves just as much a "leap of faith" as does religion. In this article, I will discuss how this is completely wrong and will examine the crucial differences between religion and "leaps of faith," on the one hand, and science and the scientific method—including communism, with its thorough, systematic and comprehensive scientific outlook and method—on the other hand.

This claim that communism (and more generally a scientific outlook and method) is just another form of religion is concentrated in the following from this letter:

"I hope you’re not offended that I call your atheism faith. I’m sure you realize atheism is a faith system too. And since you’ve pinned you’re [sic] hope on its truthfulness, we can call it your religion. How about that!? Bob Avakian is a religious man!

"You probably realize what most evolutionists don’t since no one was there to record the Big Bang, it too is just as much a leap of faith as the biblical version of creation. But no worries, you can always make your case stronger by stating forcefully, ’Evolution is a fact!’ "

The heart of the matter here—and what is fundamentally wrong in the viewpoint of the writer of this letter—is the attempt to distort what is involved in the application of a scientific method and approach, in the process of scientific investigation and analysis and in the drawing of scientifically based conclusions. More specifically, what is fundamentally wrong is the attempt to say that the actual leaps that are involved in arriving at rational knowledge of things —including through the application of the scientific method—somehow amount to the same thing as "leaps of faith" that are characteristic of religion. In fact, these are profoundly and radically different kinds of "leaps," and digging into the difference will not only further expose the confusion and outright distortions and misrepresentations in this letter, and in the method of thinking of its author, but much more importantly can help clarify the fundamental difference between a scientific and a religious approach to reality and to changing—or not changing—reality, including human society.

Read the whole article at http://rwor.org/a/010/avakian-leap-faith-leap-rationale.htm

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leaps of faith and science v logic

by Hex Sunday, Jul. 31, 2005 at 9:11 AM

For a person who doesn't understand or apply scientific method accepting scientific conclusions IS a matter of faith.

Evolution is established by fossil record, carbon 14 and other radiodating establishes timespan way beyond what most religious faith deals with, and more recently, DNA typing establishes evolution as well.

(I say most because not all religions are at odds with scientific method or discovery and a few have timescales even beyond what science considers)

It takes tremendous leaps of faith to NOT acknowledge these facts

But faith is all some people have..



Re: communism being scientific

While not religious I don't consider a culture or social order to be necessarily scientific either as people who compromise it don't necessarily practice scientific method - whomever uses scientific method is scientific - but it's at best a generalization to classify millions of people each different as doing so.

To me science is removed from social and cultural aspects and stands apart as simply a method that any class of people can use no matter what thier political alignment might be

Communism is a political system - science is individuals practicing scientific method whereas political systems by definition encompass many people, some of who don't necessarily practice scientific method

A community of scientists could be said to be a politically scientific society, but millions of ordinary people within a political system, even if the system it'self uses scientific principles doesn't make non-scientific method people scientists and science is strictly an individual and personal thing.

Only people can be scientific or be called scientists - machines have only logic, and systems are merely an extension of machines (non-personal, non-individual, non-human)

So at best communism can only be claimed to be LOGICAL

Scientific and science are values reserved for people as only people can practice science, not machines or systems..

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blinded me with science

by Hecks Sunday, Jul. 31, 2005 at 10:07 AM

A fellow technocrat! Save me from chaos and these infinite fractiles beyond sanity going on and on and on.

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chaos is your friend

by Hex Sunday, Jul. 31, 2005 at 12:21 PM

um - fractals

I don't consider myself to be a technocrat - technology is incidental to my interests which involve non-technical issues such as spirituality and nature.

To me technocrat implies love of technology for it's own sake.

I was known as "the mad scientist" as a kid so you could say I'm a scientist to the core or that science is my life's calling - I didn't become spiritual until 17 when I found a religion that meshes with science (specifically particle and astrophysics which are some of my fields of interest)

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