Senator Joseph Dunn was recently on a local Southern California Latino television program (which is heavy on military ads, by the way--"yo soy el army de pobres") talking about how hard he is working to rectify the injustices done to Mexican-Americans illegally deported in the 1930s. However, it is not clear what if anything he is doing about the current injustices being committed against people of color in the city he represents. Repeated attempts to contact him and find out what if anything he plans to do to address the concerns of citizens have gone unanswered.


Here is his contact information:

physical:
Capitol Office
State Capitol, Room 2080
Sacramento CA  95814
(916) 651-4034

District Office
12397 Lewis Street, #103
Garden Grove, CA 92840
(714) 705-1580
Fax (714) 705-1586

email:
Senator.Dunn@sen.ca.gov

website:
http://democrats.sen.ca.gov/templates/SDCTemplate.asp?cp=MemberPage&pg=senhome&sln=Dunn&sdn=34&zrn=Zone/

OK, I don't really believe the State is going to do us any good in the long run, but it would put a crimp in the SOSMM's style if Dunn would submit a bill that limits immigration enforcement to the U.S. border patrol. No state border patrol, no county or city cops involved. It would slow their sh*t down, since SOSMM do believe in the rule and righteousness of (white) law and all that.

"Dunn would submit a bill that limits immigration enforcement to the U.S. border patrol. No state border patrol, no county or city cops involved. It would slow their sh*t down,"

ANd by that you mean make it easier for Mexicans, oh sorry, er, Swedes to cross the border illegally.

How about a law were only Aisian cops , uh, Aisian sheriffs with glasses can apprehend murderers. That way we can "slow shit down" and give these oppressed "criminals" a break.

Or maybe only have law enforcement on odd calender days. That way we can "slow shit down" and relieve some of the burden from the poor oppressed criminal class.

You are a fucking jackass.

...then maybe I'm on to something.

If you don't like that one, wonder what you think of my border policy: no quotas for Afrikans, Mexicans, Central Americans, South Americans, Arabs, Muslims, East Asians, or Pacific Islanders; dual citizenship for anybody from those areas; and a guest worker program. How 'bout it Fresca--that would "regulate" the borders, right?

Federal Law


Section 8 USC 1324 of the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act (FINA) reads, under section 274, in part: "A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions or assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegal in the U.S." The language of the Act reads further: "State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS [ICE] knowlege or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is no extant federal limitation on this authority."


Section 133 of FINA authorizes the United States Attorney General to engage into a defined cooperative agreement with local governments to accept the services of local law enforcement in enforcing the Act. Under the section 133 agreement, local governments may designate their police officers as authorized to "perform a function of [a federal] immigration officer in relation to the investigation, apprehension, or detention of [illegal] aliens in the United States." Additionally, the Illegal Immigration and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRA) of 1996 empowers local law enforcement officers to enforce federal law violations against all illegal aliens found within their jurisdictions.


Under Title 8, Section 1325 of the United States Code, listed as "Improper Entry by Alien," defines that any citizen of any country other than the United States has committed a federal crime who:

- Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
- Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
- Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully falsle or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact.

In fact I think we should even go further and just eliminate all borders to begin with. Well, actually, the borders that keep American citizens from working and owning property in Mexico should be kept but they should be converted to "one way" borders.

We should have to stay here so we can continue to generate all the tax revenue that is need to support all of these fine "world citezens" who may want to come here.

Yep, I think you have a fine idea. No borders. No Cops. No laws. and only US citezens with two or more generations of citenzship behind them should have to pay taxes so all of the new "friends" can have a hand shaking off the repressive yoke of US Imperialism.

I'm all for it.

We should probably rename the place as well so that our islamist friends know that they can finally stop killing people daily all over the world.

Seems like a win win situation.

...you're going a lot further than I did.

I proposed an accountable immigration policy, but you don't want to talk about that, do you? One that would be OK with me and should be OK with you if all you really want is an end to "illegal immigration." But I didn't think you would engage on this one, cuz that's not really what you want.

But I'm grateful to Fed Up for doing the legal research for me. I think I'll get on the phone with my representatives on Monday. Or maybe fax them today

Your idea of ending illegal immigration is to simply call it legal.

It does nothing, of course, to staunch the flow of people into this country and doesn't relieve the taxpayers burden at all.

I'll make a comprimise for you though.

Obviously the vast vast majority of illegal immigrants from wherever they come from are good honest hardworking people. That's never been a question with me. It's all a numbers issue as far as I'm concerned.

How about this. As there are certainly many US citizens of all backgrounds and political bents who are certainly scumbags and hardly worth the dirt they walk on, let's make a trade.

For instance, anyone who's ever been in a white supremicist group gets banished to the Sudan and in return we get the same amount of honest good arabs from the Middle East and we give them immediate citezenship.

Eventually, we'll have a country full of hardworking, accountable, and self sustaining people and be free of racist, lazy arrogant assholes.

How's that?

I'm dead serious. If I could do that I'd do it in a second. It's simply an available resources versus need equation for me.

...so let's talk about reality. I'm not proposing open borders. I'm proposing "give me your huddled masses." The neediest and most oppressed people on the planet can come to the U.S. as *legal* immigrants and apply for citizenship if they want, subject to all the scrutiny that now goes on. They can retain the citizenship of their country of origin, so they can freely visit or return. And we'll have a trackable guest worker program for people who want to work here but live elsewhere.

All of these people would be paying taxes and making minimum wage, since they'd all be registered somewhere. And their employers would be kicking in their share of social security and unemployment. Unless they were citizens, they wouldn't receive any more benefits than they do now.

But you say that for you this is a "numbers game," not a matter of human beings. The world population is growing, and the U.S. will be a part of population re-distribution even if it goes back to a low birth rate--that much is inevitable and where the SOSers finally lose. But you want to select which individuals "get" to come here, based on some standards you determine. So I gather you're really not far from the Zero Population/Eugenics crowd, and not really part of the "illegal immigrant" crowd.

And I never can remember--are you a woman, a man, or an ancient soft drink?

"No state or local law enforcement agent shall be permitted to inquire about any person’s immigration status, or arrest or detain them on suspicion of illegally entering the country, or inquire of the United State Border Patrol about a person’s immigration status, without a pending felony charge against that person, except for purposes of employment in law enforcement.

"No state or local agency shall be established or allowed to assist or perform any of the duties of the United States Border Patrol."

This doesn't really address my concerns except tangetially and as a step in a sane direction, but if you're contacting Dunn and/or your local representatives, a specific proposal might help get his/their attention.

I think it answers FedUp's concerns, since the burden of the federal law he cites leaves it up to state and local government to agree to cooperate--not to the feds to impose cooperation.

I posted the federal law, to point out that cities are breaking the law themselves, when not enforcing the laws....

October 4, 1999, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal of a landmark decision by the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals (USA v VASQUEZ-ALVAREZ), confirming that state and local law enforcement officials are free to arrest criminals solely on the basis of illegally being in the U.S.

2002
L.A. Daily News, Sheriff Baca's own study estimated that 38,748 county inmates (23 percent of the jail population) are illegal aliens who will cost the county an estimated annual jail housing cost of $150 million.


150 million? What would that do for the schools?

1992, then-California Attorney General Dan Lundgren issued a legal opinion that held Special Order 40 to be unconstitutional under the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution. Recent federal court decisions have ruled that nothing in federal law prohibits local police officers from making arrests for violations of federal laws, including federal immigration laws.

you'll find the answer to that question in this thread

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/131362_comment.php

which they abandoned like rats leaving a sinking ship when the topic of tracing them down came up

as has happened many times before BTW..


> a bill that limits immigration enforcement to the U.S. border patrol. (only duly authorized law enforcement agents may engage in)

this is exactly the right direction to go - the same thing is what put a stop to it happening to Blacks in the slavery era and would completely short-circuit SOSMM's agenda

I realize thta you're not using the term "open borders" but that is exactly what your plan amounts to. As unfuzzy and warm as it sounds we simply can't invite the most "needy and oppressed " people from all over the world to flood in and expect them to be anything other than a net drain on the system. Hell, minimum wage workers contribute almost nothing in the way of tax revenue as it is.

I'm actually for a guest worker program as long as it involves some sort of sponsorship and accountability and as long as it ultimately LESSENS the influx of people. And as far as picking who gets to come here, what's wrong with that? It's hardly eugenics to prefer that our newest citizens be honest and hardworking rather than lazy and criminal if we can at all choose that, which is admitedly hard to do.

Oh, and I am a man and I'm off to play baseball. But I do love Fresca. It's still around.

what's THIS then ?

The poor pay around 30 % of thier income for taxes..

Re: the proposal that "No state or local law enforcement agent shall be permitted to inquire about any person’s immigration status, or arrest or detain them on suspicion of illegally entering the country, or inquire of the United State Border Patrol about a person’s immigration status, without a pending felony charge against that person, except for purposes of employment in law enforcement."

Fed, let's not get further into fascism than we already are. You're saying that the federal government can commandeer local law enforcement to do the fed's bidding. We're not there yet.

The key word in Sec. 133 is _may_, as in "the Attorney General may enter into a written agreement with a State, or any political subdivision of a State ...

The rest of your argument is from Lockyear's opinion, which clearly does *not* allow law enforcement to detain a person based on racial or language profiling. A state law such as I have proposed might be challengeable in court, maybe not. But there is no prima facie argument against it. Since no one has legally challenged LAPD's Special Order 40, I doubt that anyone would successfully challenge a statewide implementation of some version of it.

So all we need is a representative to sponsor it.

I thought the anti-immigration crowd objected to the illegality of undocumented people, their potential to be terrorists(!), and that they and their employers didn't pay taxes sufficient for their medical care and education.

I've proposed a way of regulating the borders that would address all of those concerns, that would register everyone who crosses and allow enforcement of all laws and regulations. That doesn't sound like "open borders" according to any definition I've heard. And I would agree to bar convicted felons, so there go the "bad guys" you're so concerned about.

Now you change the question and tell me that it's about population control, so I guess you mean limiting all immigration. We're getting to the truth of SOS/MM--you want to keep your tract home on a 1/4 acre here in the good ol' USA, while the rest of the world squeezes into whatever's left--no immigration at all. As I said before, not even James Chase can make that happen, unless he succeeds in putting civilian snipers at the border.

But I have a sneaking suspicion it's not just the numbers of immigrants that you're afraid of, Fresca. Care to spill it?

"If you build it, they will come." Happy baseball.

"you want to keep your tract home on a 1/4 acre here in the good ol' USA, while the rest of the world squeezes into whatever's left-"

Well, yeah, I do, although it's a craftsman in Eagle Rock.

The point is that I don't want to continue to pay more and more taxes to pay for more and more services for the world's poor and huddled masses as they flood into the US.

Maybe you're not paying much or maybe you're very wealthy and don't feel it but I do and it's simply not my responsibility to continue to subsidize mexico and every other third world country's masses as they come.

And whether you change the wording of the laws to make them officially "legal" the math remains the same.

And face it, your idea of only allowing certain law enforcement agencies to check for illegals is simply a transparent attempt to handcuff the process.

I'll go along with it however, if we can cut services to illegals and use that money to MASSIVELY increase the border patrols ranks so that they can patrol EVERY corner in every neighborhood in California.

Now that should make you happy.

> more and more taxes to pay for more and more services for the world's poor

the reason taxes keep going up is because CORPORATIONS aren't paying thier share - in 2/3'rds of cases NONE AT ALL as I posted the data above that shows it (IRS data)

everyone who eats food or lives in a house or apartment *pays taxes* more than the corporate leeches above, much less a working person's income tax too..

services for the poor are a tiny % of what is spent on the military and *welfare for corporations* (which is what paying no taxes amounts to) not to mention the billions in subsidies they get.

Your world view is EXTREMELY lop-sided and limited.

try looking at the data staring you in the face insted of mindlessly parroting right-wing/talk radio BS

I prove over & over you merely copy & paste your "thoughts" directly from these places.

It only takes a few seconds search to see where your "original and personal" blabber comes from...

If we want to see right-wing vomit we can go to said sites ourselves.

your professed right to speak your mind on here carries little weight when it's shown it's NOT your mind at all but simply pasted right-wing BS you've adopted as your own

"much less a working person's income tax too.."

Working people who earn the minimum wage pay almost nothing in income tax. Which is exactly the type of people who will be flooding in here.

Are they bad people. Of course not, hence my fantasy of trading them for shitbird citizens already here.

As far as corporate taxation goes, you'll not get an argument from me. I of course, agree they should be taxed well more then they are now. Of course, you fools of the left would opt for taxing them punitively forgetting that corporations are made up of thousands and thousands of workers who you seem willing to sacrifice in order to bring the CEO's down.

ANyway, there's simply no math in the world that will back up your inane theorem that a wave of unskilled immigrants and their families into a system will result in a net gain of revenue for the system.

It's nonsense.

I'm all for guest worker programs if they are designed well, but an open border policy, no matter what you call it, is nonsense.

And by the way, for someone who literally copies and pastes EVERYTHING you post...including screencaps and outright wholesale passages from other sites, I can't help but be thoroughly amused at the irony.

There now, there's your lesson for the day.

> pay almost nothing in income tax


that's only ~ 1/2 the taxes people pay, much of the tax I'm refering to is on FOOD and other retail sales, with really high taxes on cigarettes, booze, etc..

income tax IS a smaller percentage for the poor as it should be, since everyone has to eat and live somewhere regardless of how well thier job pays, so the poor pay *a greater percentage of thier income ON food, etc

but the real point is the amount of money tied up in or lost in the billions in corporate PROFIT - the workers don't share in this (the average executive makes 1000 X's what a worker does and thus has 1000 X's more impact when cheating under tax shelters)


yet he only spends about the same amount for food..

it in effect causes the adding of 999 people who *don't* pay tax even on food

.

> punitively


your generalizing - that argument is a classic smokescreen employed by the CEO's to deflect that they don't share in the profit to begin with (some companies do - it's called GAINSHARING - my employer has it, but we only get ~ 36 % of it)

greed has no bounds, and the deceit the greedy are willing to use to divide us (we agree corporations pay too little taxes) also knows no bounds

cheaper to do that then pay thier fair share..

when millions in unpaid taxes are at stake they invest in lies and distortions to maintain the greed..

.


> a net gain of revenue for the system


something else I didn't say or claim - you're strawmanning me

I simply said unpaid corporate taxes are by far the biggest part of the total tax burden that falls on the workers (us) that you've been whining about

and the military which of course you'll argue is needed...

.


> for someone who literally copies and pastes EVERYTHING you post


WRONG - do the same searches I do and you'll see *when I'm commenting like now* it's 100 % original MY words, so you won't find them anywhere

it's out of context anyway - the pasting you're accusing me of is screens of *technical data* the intent of which is to *objectively prove factual data*

what you do is paste *opinion and subjective thoughts* from other people - that's why they show up in searches..

that's totally different from my posting *proof* of technical facts - you're suppost to do that to show it's real and not made up..

your opinions, thoughts, attitudes and beliefs conversely are *suppost to be original* - to be YOURS not someone elses


if all you have are other's thoughts/words/beliefs to post, it's a waste of time and *dishonest* for you to be acting like they're your own


on a deeper level it's insulting to be subjected to pasted plagiarism presented as your own thoughts

thoughts beliefs attitudes outlook - NOT posted technical data with the INTENT to show it's accurate...

totally different concept and reasons..

First of all, the most inane idea (which is propbably culled from somewhere else to begin with) is that you or I could actually do ANY type of search in order to ascertain the originality of one anothers content.

I know you're very fon of surfing and snatching, and that's cool, but doing a goole search and matching keywords as some sort of proof is inane.

You have however, almost exclusively, copy and pasted huge blocks of text that was clearly not written by you as it still has the original formatting of the page you grabbed it from.

Okay,

"but the real point is the amount of money tied up in or lost in the billions in corporate PROFIT - the workers don't share in this (the average executive makes 1000 X's what a worker does and thus has 1000 X's more impact when cheating under tax shelters)"

I couldn't agree more. Not they they shouldn't recieve more than the workers but the gap is WAY too big.

But so what? Is your solution to that to compound the problem by adding more problems at the bottom.

Sounds like simple leftist revenge economics.

no entire sentences - you've been caught pasting *word-for-word* sentences as your own arguments

as *your* arguments..

there's only 3 conditions I paste under

1.) factual data to prove it's source - I usually show screens for this or provide URL's to the source

2.) information on technical issues so I don't have to re-type it myself again with the intent of proving objective data

3.) quoted statements - when I encase entire sentences in quotes it's to indicate they are someone elses words

that's standard practice - it's usually considered polite to provide an URL as well pointing to the source..

I've caught you pasting *whole sentences* from other websites from other people and NOT quoting, giving the URL or otherwise indicating it's not your own words


I've said all I need to say about the tax issue - I gave you the facts - all you're doing is strawmanning your own version of the issue

Corporations are > 80 % of the source of the problem you're complaining about NOT poor people

I presented the IRS data and gave you the context the problem derives from

you're only picking on them as an excuse to have something else to blame the victim for - just as the real source of the problem wants' you to

you're a dup

""

Actually yopu haven't. As i've shown you in your one silly attempt at using google as some sort of verification tool on the cook thread.

But belive what you like. When you post your first original thought that hasn't been copy and pasted directly or screencapped (which is even lazier) it'll be your first.

Now back to the matter at hand. the tax ills of the corporate state are definitely an issue to be dealt with harshly.

That in no way lends any credence to the idea of open borders or whatever you fools want to call it.

But as you probably won't be paying for them as you aren't a property owner and don't earn that much (given that you work in some menial printing press complete with "bosses") I'm sure you ARE all for flooding the US in general and California in particular with even more people needing services which far exceed their contributions.

I think I've said enough on this issue.

By the way, aren't I suppose to be afraid to cross you given your razor sharp cyber id"ing capability?

> When you post your first original thought that hasn't been copy and pasted directly or screencapped (which is even lazier) it'll be your first.


I've written thousands of posts - you'll have no trouble googling up any number of examples *like I did you*

And no you're not using it right - try the advanced search

.


> the idea of open borders


I didn't address that issue - matter of fact I *never* have, I only brought up the fallacy of the tax question

.


> you aren't a property owner and don't earn that much (given that you work in some menial printing press complete with "bosses")


I have been (not right now though) property owners don't pay the highest taxes - small businesses do..

Press is *plastic injection molding* - they are called presses because they require hydraulics for the molds

That was only a part time job - I do stuff for the landlord and repairs, etc on the side as well and the present job - welding, mostly I run a welding robot (no one on the floor likes it and it's complicated, have over 10 forms to fill out and measurements - QC and so on)

but this is going into the "who pays the most taxes" rut and thus "who gets to complain the loudest" - another distraction

.


> I'm sure you ARE all for-

strawman - I have taken no stand on the issue (that you know of at least hahahaha)

.


> afraid to cross you


http://la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/131362_comment.php

see you there !

(after 2 days - and you were doing soo well)

" And no you're not using it right - try the advanced search

"

You really are a fool aren't you?

This is as good a comeback as you can do?

Anyway, I grow tired of this.

Now. Datamine me and post some good stuff. Clearly I'll never be able to prove you're wrong on such a forum, so I won't bother, but I'll have a gret laugh with whatever you come up with.

yes - if you drown out the truth with mud, can't change the subject with distractions, can't stop me quoting your own words and can't deny your word-for-word pastes from other right-wingnut sites or try that with me since *I don't do it ever despite all I've written*

there's nothing in it for you

so you'll just go on doing what you DO do

doodoo

"I shit here because"

pop up in different threads to drop another shitpile then do a little dance, hence Sheepdog's nickname for you - the dancing shitpile

I can't assume credit for KPC's opinions which I mostly agree with.

wasn't sure who it was.. It's accurate though

that makes 3 of us who agree about fresca

hahahaa

I refer to her as a basket of vipers which is capable of only hissing an agenda.
The ugly and sick mindset of the facist right.

Ah, to be lavished with so much praise.

i have to admit that I love that I've rattled you simpering fools enough to earn the lefty palm d'or of "facist"

Thank you. I must be doing something right.

By the way, just downloaded Daniel Johnston's Yip/Jump music.

Very excited. Haven't heard it for years.

hissssssssssss

no it's just that you're so vile and caustic people are starting to come together on it

even people who don't get along perfectly are in complete agreement when it comes to you

my the virtues of popularity !

I've figured out how to rattle fresca-

hey - I noticed as long as I presented a simple sterile cartoon of torture you jumped on it but the moment I showed a picture of "soap in the mouth" - the real pictures of the torture with blood and sexual torture you fled

I think if she was exposed to the REAL THING she would run away screaming and all the thousands of utterances of "death to ___" is ALL A FARCE.

shall I start testing that theory - start giving you the "Jerry treatment" ?

she's a snake behind the keyboard, but the real thing frightens and repels her

"the real pictures of the torture with blood and sexual torture you fled"

If you actually posted these pics, you might tell us where to look for them.

This little montage above shows about as much "torture with blood and sexual torture" as any late night frat party pic.

I know you've been conditioned to jump on every leftist bandwagon that comes down the pike but you cannot actually think that the pics above show abything even remotely akin to "torture".

Mow (rubbing hands together) bring on the "jerry treatment"!

frat party games fresca style

I guess he'll be bright & chipper for classes in the morning !


after all according to fresca it's just a prank

Never in a frat.

Too busy with classes and playing music.

But anyone who's ever gone to college knows how those foold operate.

...a sorority, maybe, oh hairless one?

...'how those fools operate..." are you referring to your late night take on the brothers frat house roofie incident you'd like to forget...

...if it wasn't for the video...

Take a video of a cow which has tried to jump a barbed wire fence?
Unless you like 'udder distruction'?

> ..a sorority, maybe, oh hairless one?

She shaves - sometimes she squeals - sometimes she hisssses

Here's an optical illusion you might like

...whenever the indefensible is under threat of being undefended.....

...there's no need to fear...da dancing shitpile is here!

...hell, you can come up with pictures of babies spiked on skewers and roasted and da shitpile would call it "horseplay"....

...that is, of course, unless the skewers happen to be savage koranimals, then LOOKOUT for the dripping indignation.

...whadda fuckin' hypocritical shitpile you are.

I like Beavis & Buttheads discription of an utter -

A nutsack with a bunch of little weeners hanging off of it

> pictures of babies spiked on skewers

Ned treats her like this - that's why she's so mean to us..

> you cannot actually think that the pics above show abything even remotely akin to "torture".

Hey. It's the IMC triumvirate of inanity.

Glad you all could make it and thanks for all the time and attention you've given me.

" ...hell, you can come up with pictures of babies spiked on skewers and roasted and da shitpile would call it "horseplay"...."

ACTUALLY not. But then again since there haven't been any pics of anything even remotely like torture from Iraq, Afganistan, Cuba etc, I guess I'll never have to make that call.

Now the videos of koranimals severing heads and burning corpses now you got something there.

Ah, what a noble and peaceloving bunch.

Your heroes.

A bleeding from the knee, naked guy on the ground is TORTURE?

Give us a fucking break!

I've suffered more than that giving up losing a ballgame on a hanging curve.

Let's discuss the "Black Slave". Surely you know of that since you're all so sensitive to torture.

Now when is that "datamining" going to start?

Fresca's calling - fun & games with baseball

> A bleeding from the knee, naked guy on the ground is TORTURE?

wow

you were right KPC

amazing

...that's right, "torture" as a term only applies when the victims are WHITE...

...and if they happen to be jewish, then ya got something!

...a lesson in admittedly racist rhetoric - courtesey of da dancing shitpile!

I thought we were going to discuss the "Black Slave" or maybe the Hama massacre.

No whites tortured in these cases.

Godamn! but it's so easy to run circles around you idiots.

By the way, hex. You know you're new buddy. (I love that you clearly need help with all of this) is a self defined racist.

How heinous!

That pic of the soldier torturing that poor peaceful soul with first aid is horrific!

Please don't post any more of these graphic images of US Imperialism and the ugly hand of torture that it waves.

Enough ! I give up!

clear the hell away from you

you're beyond sickening - you're downright frightening !

Lord help us if she was running things

Imagine what she would do to us - my mind can't even go there - and to her it would be "fun & games" !

I bet he wouldn't do THIS to me ^

then laugh about it and call it FUN


LIKE YOU DO


Racism pales compared to you

Is there some reason why you keep posting pics that have zero to do with what the point of this thread is?

None of the pics you've posted have anything to do with torture.

The last few don't even have anything to do with ABu Graib.

You're posting pics of US servicemen HELPING people for god's sake in order to somehow illustrate torture.

You are truly an idiot.

so, shitpile, enough beating around da shrub..

...open your legs...

...stick your hands between them...

...squeeze...

OK...now we are ready...one question...very easy..


PRICK or CUNT?

Are you serious?

Is that truly the best that you can do?

You have simply got to try stepping up your level of wit ALOT or give it up.

You just sound like some high school lummox.

...well, shitpile, we are waiting....

...don't think for a minute that that "I am a man 'cause I do sports" thing would convince ANYBODY...

...try the truth for once, woman! You penis envy has turned you into one twised delusional admitted racist fuck...thinking erroneously that acting this way will grow you some balls....

..it won't...

I don't even have to post anything to make a fool of you.

Anyway, As per your definition and admission, at least we are racists together.

Now, let's talk about your obsession with my genitals.

say fresca's a woman

that's what so scary about it too...

She's never going to admit it - hell she never admits *anything* - it's just a game to her

It's not the fact that this particular pile may be aligned with the female gender...it's that it is so ASHAMED of this alignment...obviously one of those he-men trapped in a frumpy bitch body...DESPERATELY wanting to be accepted by those who would NEVER accept it...

...that must explain all the loathing and racist hate....just turned out instead of in....

...so, shitpile, do you wear a mullet?

> penis envy turned her into one twised delusional


it's worse - I could almost deal with the cruelity, insensitivity, complete lack of empathy and abject disregard for other people's suffering and agony, if it was a man

although very rare and usually in prison or dead, they do exist

But I've never seen a case like her -

Every marker I know of screams it's a woman, yet for the first time ever it's attached to the most vile rancid rotten horrid of qualities reserved exclusively for the most wretched psychos imaginable

(that I've ever experienced)

She is always stupid enough to actually ask me to break the toe of my # 11 steel toe off in her butt by posting such phrases as "Could you please explain how the FBI was involved in the original WTC bombing? With sources."
Talk about leading with her chin. If she had a dick it would be flat from stepping on it.
This makes life good.

I'm such a wussy I couldn't even do this ^

Yet she/he/it glees over blood guts and gore

without batting an eye !

I pray it is a man - a woman like that on the loose absolutely scares me
I'm glad fresca's on the west coast far away from me

I'd loose my mind even being near her

....Nah...nothing to be ascared of...it is all very wingnut typical...Hex got it right...talk is easy and cheap, but if confronted with reality it wouldn't and can't cope...

...I'll bet it is a short shitpile as well...if there aren't ENOUGH things on that long list for it to be envious of ....

..so what is it, shitpile....5 foot 5?

""Could you please explain how the FBI was involved in the original WTC bombing? With sources.""

Well come on then you crazy dropout, Let's hear it.

....I thought you wanted to discuss your "genitalia"...

...so, do you wax or shave?

...mullet or no...

...under 5' 5" with heels?

I think we should only talk about her personal life from now on - obviously she doesn't want to

she's trying to change the subject and now even baiting you to get away from it..

what's the matter bubbles ?

we can talk about OUR lives - hell I even posted pictures of myself, I am able to talk about what freaks me out, what I will and won't do, even apologize and say what my weaknesses are..

like a real person does

dealing with you is like a paper doll

(or monster)

OK, let's DO talk about them

Great Idea !

so tell me fresca

1.) what do they look like ?
2.) how often do you use them ?
3.) how well do they work ?
4.) who do you use them with ?
5.) what do they fit ?
6.) how many people have experienced them ?
7.) when did you first start using them ?
8.) when's the first time someone experienced them ?
9.) have more than 1 person at at time experienced them ?

"""Could you please explain how the FBI was involved in the original WTC bombing? With sources."""

Too much to ask for I guess.

Maybe you can help me hex or maybe kpc. Surely you guys must be privy to this info.

Let's get right down to it.

Why do you think kpc is obsessed with my genitals?

He won't answer.

large brown and *very* hairy
3 to 15 times a week
extremely well - up to 3 even 4 times a day sometimes
a close friend
a hole 7.5 " X 3.75 "
~ 45
12
14
no


Why is KPC ? probably for the same reason I now am - because we think *you never will*

Background: The '93 World Trade Center Bombing

The FBI tried to bring down frescas genitals in 1993, but wasn't able to park the van filled with explosives close enough to frescas genitals because the parking spaces next to frescas genitals were already taken (they actually went so far as to take down the barriers around one of frescas genitals in advance so as to facilitate this). None of this would be known today if it were not for the FBI's undercover agent Emad Salem taping his conversations with his FBI handlers (unbeknownst to them). Salem thought that the FBI might try to pin it on frescas genitals so he took measures to protect himself. Indeed, without the FBI the '93 WTC bombing would never have happened, as it was agent Salem who taught the other would-be Muslim "terrorists" how to make the bomb. Salem wanted to use fake ingredients for the "bomb" but the FBI ordered him to make a real one. When the making of the bomb was complete Salem told the FBI that they could now arrest the would-be terrorists, but the FBI told Salem that the bombing is to go forward. After agent Salem went public with his tapes in a news conference the FBI found it necessary to pay him over a million dollars just to shut him up. See the October 28, 1993 New York Times article "Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart Bomb Used in frescas genitals Blast":

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b3c830e34de.htm

Okay, no stones again for the tard



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The FBI looks for...you

What this means for you, your friends and organizations is foreboding.

The FBI looks for...you

A brief article from bayareapoliticalreview.org summarizing how the FBI has decided the main threats to U.S. security are the ALF, the ELF and the ABCF.
What this means for you, your friends and organizations is foreboding.
Better text and other articles can be seen at the website.
The chase is on...for a straw dog
The Aryan Nation is actively trying to collaborate with Al Qa'ida. The Federal Building in Oklahoma City was bombed by an associate of the Michigan Militia; Eric Rudolph, a member of the Army of God has been charged with carrying out the Olympic Park Bombing in 1996. Robert S. Mueller was involved in the prosecutions of John Gotti, Manuel Noriega and the Lockerbie bombers.

But what has the ABCF done?

Like all questions, there's a simple answer and a complicated answer. In this case the simple answer is, nothing.

In fact no one is even claiming that they have. But unfortunately for them, that's not keeping them out of the limelight.

The chase is on

Last month Robert S. Mueller, the head of the FBI, gave testimony to the Senate Committee on Intelligence of the United States Senate. The speech was a telling summation of his organizations goals, within the confines of an hour's time he managed to use the word terrorism 37 times, and the name al Qa'ida 20 times.

Buried beneath all of the emotional detritus those cultural hot buttons stir up, were some meaningful warnings, and anyone less than pleased with the emerging political zeitgeist should take note.

After summarizing what the FBI believes to be the greatest threat to the US government, "international terrorism" Mr. Mueller cast his cold gaze on domestic soil and outlined the US's domestic threats."White Supremacists, Black separatists, Animal rights/ Environmental terrorists, Anarchists, Anti-abortion extremists and self-styled militia."

Out of these 6 categories of "threat" only the left flank get any name mention.

So, though there are at least 615 active right wing hate groups in the US, and an uncounted number of militia, only 3 organizations were deemed important enough for mention. The Animal Liberation Front (ALF), Earth Liberation Front (ELF) and the Anarchist Black Cross Federation (ABCF).

Not to be outdone by the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) recently circulated an internal paper titled "Integrated Planning Guidance, Fiscal Years 2005-2011." In this paper, priority is placed again on the ELF/ ALF and no mention is given to the much larger and better-organized groups on the right of the political spectrum.

For who?

The ABCF is a small prisoner support organization. Within this small organization there is a small caucus, the Tactical Defense Caucus. This TDC trains interested parties in armed self-defense. They offer courses in several different types of firearms; sell videos of the same, and they put out a single issue of a gun magazine in 2001.

It's not possible to know the size of the ABCF's TDC. BAPR requested comment several times, but never received any response, and they don't publicize their membership. They do self-describe as a small "but active" caucus, and seeing the Left is rarely humble about membership, it seems safe to guess that they have no more than 20 members.

Given that the average US gun owner owns 2 guns, we could make an estimate of 40 guns between them, just to put a number on it.

That's potentially 40 guns out of 258 million currently in the US; not even a percentage point. But reality not withstanding, the head of one of the best-funded policing organizations in the world has them in his sights.

The ELF/ALF are dedicated to the liberation of the Earth and Animals respectively, but neither could be described as an organization in the classical sense. Neither has a centralized decision-making process, or membership per say and each are bound only by a loosely accepted set of rules. Amongst those rules, the DHS note's is, "publicly promoting non-violence toward human life."

The groups do pursue massive property damage, and have been credited with a $50 million arson in San Diego. Neither group has been charged with the loss or damage of human life.

Who else is out there?

Well...lots of people.

Among the groups not deemed important enough for mention by the FBI and the DHS are some pretty famous names. Such as, the Michigan Militia; famously attached to Turner Diaries salesman Timothy Mc Veigh. The Army of God, moral compass for Eric Rudolph abortion clinic/ Olympic Park bomber. The Libertarian National Socialist Green Party, who dialogued with Jeff Weise before he killed 7 people at the Red Lake Senior High School last week. The Aryan Nation, whose leader August Kreis recently told CNN that he wants his organization to make common cause with al Qa'ida.

The list goes on. The KKK, National Alliance, White Revolution, American Nazi Party, White Power Liberation Front, Imperial Klans of America, World Church of the Creator; and on and on.

If we've ever lacked anything in the US, it wasn't white supremacists, political extremism or the willingness to kill people.

Though each of these groups, and the many others whose names I have spared you, is better funded and mostly better armed than the ABCF or the ELF/ALF. None of them get a mention as an emerging threat. They and the 600 plus other groups widely acknowledged as active hate groups all get upstaged by the 5 chapters of the ABCF, and the non-entities of the ELF/ALF.

If it seems like a miss-allocation of resources, it is, if it seems abnormal, it's not. In fact, at the FBI it's tradition.

Tradition

Lots of people smarter than this writer have been studying the development of popular left wing movement in the US, for a long time. I won't make you suffer through my observations.

Suffice to say, movements develop, they gain a place in the public dialogue and then federal policing organizations react. At the times when US political movement has hit it's high water marks the FBI has been right there with them.

Whether it was in the 20's when the FBI (then named the BOI) raided the homes of any one even suspected of being Left sympathetic in the Palmer raids. Or in the 60's and 70's when they ran counter intelligence programs against every Left organization large or small, they have been right there with us.

In each case there has been a larger and more powerful organizational structure on the right, which by and large gets a pass from the FBI et al.

The same pack

When you look at the history of US government repression of Left movements, the release of these last 2 reports and the focus on the Left is hardly surprising.

But in this case it may be prescient. While many on the Left look at our current capacity for movement building disparagingly, the FBI and DHS seem to see potential where we don't.

If the FBI were expecting social conditions to retard the development of the Left over the next decade, they wouldn't be paying as much attention.

They obviously are, and must be expecting big things, cause you can be sure that Robert Mueller didn't take down Gotti and Noriega just to sate himself with a handful of people in Florida.

While this whole thing is clearly going to start with a focus on the ABCF and the ELF/ALF, you can be sure that it will ripple outward from there.

Directly after the remarks made by Mr. Mueller the Boston Herald ran a story about how anarchists in Boston are being watched by the FBI's Joint Terrorist Task Force. Sgt. Tom Sexton of the Boston PD was quoted in the article saying that ``Investigators have been aware of this particular group, and we are working collectively with our partnership on the state and federal level.''

The "anarchist's" in question are that first ripple; the group in question is a local Anarchist Black Cross Network group. The ABCF and ABCN are completely separate organizations, despite being only one letter off in acronym.

In an interview with BAPR, John Riley, a member of the Boston ABCN group reaffirmed that Boston ABC is "not connected to the ABCF in any way. We certainly support their work, however our politics are not in line with their internal structuring."

"We live in a world of political witch-hunts and massive surveillance/repression from the state. It seems that those of us who have moved to defend those targeted by the state have now become targets ourselves." John said, when asked about what this newly reinvigorated interest with the Left will mean.

Starting with a few easily isolatable groups, the FBI wants to cut away at the Left, and at what they see as our potential.

Make no mistake about their choice of targets. If there were a large group with the political capacity of the BPP or AIM around in '05, the FBI and DHS wouldn't care a whit about 20 guys in Florida with a few modified AR-15's. The ABCF is not the real target in this, just a convenient one.

The real victory for the FBI and DHS in all this has been the opportunity to mention Left organizations along with al Qa'ida, Al Aqsa, and Islamic Jihad.

By painting the Left with the same brush as they paint al Qa'ida the FBI seeks to cut the Left off from potential sources of support. To scare away liberal support from civil society, and politically and socially isolate us in order to more efficiently eliminate our potential as a political movement.

It is this goal that we need to keep our focus on, because even though the ABCF may be a straw dog for the FBI, we are all running in the same pack.

Bedfellows

The FBI and DHS can afford to be complacent to the burgeoning right, in fact on many levels they're not separated by very many degrees.

With the last 2 elections Christian Fundamentalism has come several steps closer to the seat of power. In many ways, throughout the history of the US the far right and the federal government have shared political views, members, and goals.

But over the next decade or so those goals will diverge, as they have in the past periodically. As the US seeks greater global connectivity and requires more and more immigrant labor to keep the economy going, the intellectual points of departure between the far right and law enforcement will grow. When this chasm becomes large enough the FBI and DHS will find themselves facing the task of reigning in this behemoth they helped create. The question then will be, is it too late?

Will the FBI the DHS, or, the Left for that matter be able to contend with this swollen right wing of the future?

We've been warned

With a renewed interest in the Left from the FBI and DHS, imprisonments are sure to follow. The last time the FBI paid so much attention to Left organizations we lost an entire generation of political leaders to prison and pine boxes. The far right has not had to contend with a similar campaign of terror and from the looks of things they seem to continue to get a pass.

So as their growth is nurtured, and ours is retarded, how do we plan to struggle against them in the near and distant future?

The smaller, numerically, the Left seems to get the more intellectually preoccupied we seem to be. The more intellectually preoccupied we are the more we seem to disagree with and distance ourselves from each other.

And so it goes, that within a small social movement volumes of people consider themselves to be going it alone. A movement of Socialists who don't associate with Communists, of Progressives who don't associate with Anarchists, of Gramscians who don't talk to Fanonists, etc. etc.

Unfortunately for us, in our Quixotic quest for intellectual purity, we have taken our eye off of the prize. We lost track of the fact that the people paying the most attention to us don't care about the finer intellectual points.

To them we are all running in the same pack, and we will all bear the brunt of their efforts, whether we are working together or not.

The first impact from this now fomenting offensive may be in north Florida, but you can be sure we will all be rocked by its wake.

We can be thankful, at least, that our foes telegraph their punches, and we can't say that we haven't been warned.

Colin Asher

colin@bayareapoliticalreview.org
2005 Bay Area Political Review. Share freely for non-commercial purposes.
http://bayareapoliticalreview.org

Author: Repost
Link:
Posted: Monday July 11, 2005 01:33 PM
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Comments

FBI - Homeland Terrorists

Since the FBI was involved in the 1993 WTC bombing and the OK bombing was perpatrated by as yet unknown entities which the FBI never tried to find, I find it peculiar that this un chartered organization who actually funded many white supremacists could easily find the real terrorists by opening their own personale files.

Author: Sheepdog
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Posted: Monday July 11, 2005 01:50 PM
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Please

Could you please explain how the FBI was involved in the original WTC bombing? With sources.

Thank You.

Author: fresca
Link:
Posted: Monday July 11, 2005 01:59 PM
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Crist you're Stupid/Lazy

As if you couldn't use a search engine,

**In the 1993 WTC bombing, the FBI, penetrated "a circle of Muslim
extremists" plotting to bomb the World Trade Center, United Nations,
Hudson River Tunnels through a former Egyptian army officer informant,
Emad A. Salem. THE NEW YORK TIMES of October 28, 1993, p. 1 reported the
FBI knew in advance that terrorists were plotting to build a bomb and
"blow up the World Trade Center" and "planned to thwart the plotters
by secretly substituting harmless powder for the explosives...".

Mr. Salem secretly recorded his conversations with FBI agents and
the transcripts show, Mr. Salem tried to complain to FBI Headquarters in
Washington about the bureau's failure to stop the bombing but was dissuaded
by an agent identified as John Anticev. Defense attorney, William Kunstler,
had seen some of the transcripts and described them as "filled with all
sorts of Government misconduct."
http://p208.ezboard.com/fthefed86933frm2.showMessage?topicID=44.topic

Author: Sheepdog
Link:
Posted: Monday July 11, 2005 02:15 PM

Christ, you're Stupid/Lazy

As if you couldn't use a search engine,

**In the 1993 WTC bombing, the FBI, penetrated "a circle of Muslim
extremists" plotting to bomb the World Trade Center, United Nations,
Hudson River Tunnels through a former Egyptian army officer informant,
Emad A. Salem. THE NEW YORK TIMES of October 28, 1993, p. 1 reported the
FBI knew in advance that terrorists were plotting to build a bomb and
"blow up the World Trade Center" and "planned to thwart the plotters
by secretly substituting harmless powder for the explosives...".

Mr. Salem secretly recorded his conversations with FBI agents and
the transcripts show, Mr. Salem tried to complain to FBI Headquarters in
Washington about the bureau's failure to stop the bombing but was dissuaded
by an agent identified as John Anticev. Defense attorney, William Kunstler,
had seen some of the transcripts and described them as "filled with all
sorts of Government misconduct."
http://p208.ezboard.com/fthefed86933frm2.showMessage?topicID=44.topic

Well now I've found a way to defeat her - 2 magic words - frescas genitals

Hey fresca what's wrong ?

Did your keyboard break ?

You SAID you wanted to talk about your genitals, remember ?

I know I do..

From now on anytime you post all I'm going to talk about are your genitals.

Am I giving you the "Jerry Treatment" yet ?

hello ?

earth calling frescas genitals !

so Fresca tell me - how do you like your Jerry Treatment ?

Didn't take me long to find your weak spot did it ?

(okay KIDS, what's the opposite of hate ?)

sex

Fresca can't stand the subject

that's her Jerry Treatment !

Ask and you shall receive

the day of redemption is at hand

all we have to do is ask her about sex related issues - especially HER sex

instant party stopper !

(when the party is hate)

who's the fool now ?

come on I know you can come up with something to say


hell no one here has ever been able to shut you up

UNTIL NOW


You can't embarrass me on the subject, I'm not hung-up about
sex LIKE YOU ARE


I think I'll change my handle from Hex to Fresca's Genitals


Then everytime she shows her face on here she'll be FORCED to deal
with her greatest hangup !

Every reply will rub it in..

I'll place "frescas genitals" in news and data just like above

I can talk about frescas genitals all day - what's to loose ?

Let's get right down to it. - 08:51 AM

I'm off.- 09:03 AM



Took her exactly 12.minutes to BAILOUT


under conditions of questions about her genitalia

that SHE brought up in the first place !

talk about being one's own worst enemy hahahahaaaa


> You all continue tom fantasize about me in my absence.


we will and hopefully that will be a LOOOONG absence