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Baldwin Park 2, the Rematch!

by Fredric L. Rice Monday, Jun. 27, 2005 at 6:53 PM
frice@skeptictank.org

A more detailed look at the anti-hate rally in Baldwin Park, Claiofrnia, on June 25'th.

Baldwin Park 2, the Rematch!
The June 25'th anti-hate rally

Photographs will be posted to http://www.thedarkwind.org/june25.htm on Monday, the 27'th of June.

It was another good day for diversity, tolerance, and racial harmony in America as anywhere from around 500 to 800 anti-hate protesters turned out once again to oppose the "Save Our State" a.k.a "Minutemen" and National Vanguard / Alliance white supremists outsiders who come into people's communities to spew their hatred and, it seems to me, to
look for white supremists recruits.

I arrived this time without my bicycle, bringing around 70 ham and cheese sandwiches to pass out freely among participants since there were a number of individuals passing out water freely. Arriving at around 11:30 or 11:40, I missed seeing the speech by the Baldwin Park Mayor praising Judy Baca and denouncing the racists by about 30 minutes or so. I'd seen the Mayor at the first anti-hate rally so I assume I didn't miss much the second time around.

The Baldwin Park City -- our elected government officials -- had received hundreds of terrorist death threats from "Save Our State" a.k.a. "Minutemen" a.k.a. "National Vanguard" supporters, defenders, members, participants and such. The Mayor had mentioned during Baldwin Park #1 that the City would be asking the FBI to go after these racist scumbags and that criminal charges would be filed. All because our elected government officials support and defend the rights of the _citizens_ of the communities they serve and they refuse to bow down to right-wing terrorists that come in from out of town who don't belong in America, leave alone in peaceful, diverse American communities like Baldwin Park.

As I arrived, I watched two white supremists walking hot-footed up Downing heading North/East past the Monument, and on their heels were about half a dozen anti-hate participants, some of them yelling at the racists.

One of the white supremists was wearing a while construction helmet and the other was wearing jungle camo pants, both of them trying hard to keep within sight of the police. When I saw these clowns, I looked behind me at the police officers standing around the Monument and noted that they were watching the racists being hounded by the good guys, and the cops were happy to just watch.

Someone from the anti-hate protesters stepped between the fleeing white supremists and the anti-hate protesters and said something, prompting the anti-hate activists to stop and merely watch as the white supremists fled up Badillo. Apparently these scumbags snuck back behind police lines and rejoined their white supremists buddies down along Pacific and Downing.

After walking around a bit, I was shocked and disgusted to see that the racists had been sequestered and isolated on the street corner far away where they were virtually impossible to see. The police has set up barricades of yellow ribbon and police officers along all four city blocks, boxing them in on all sides, and they were not allowing vehicles or people on foot any where near the racists.

I thought at the time that this was akin to the right-wing fascists' "Free Speech Zones" that the Bush regime has been setting up to pen up progressive activists around the country. Looking across the yellow ribbon, one could see a bunch of people -- maybe 30 or 40 -- and some American flags, but no movement at all. There were no cars passing back and forth along that section of Pacific Ave and no cars along that section of Downing. The racists had been boxed up on a street corner where nobody could see them and where the anti-hate activists couldn't let them know exactly what the people of this community thinks about them to their white bread, neo-Nazi faces.

Walking around, I was happy to see so many fellow white Americans who had joined in the anti-hate rally. More than half of the activists were Hispanic or apparently Native tribes but there was a good number of fellow white Americans who had turned out. I was proud to see that the majority of Americans are opposed to these "Save Our State" a.k.a. "Minutemen" a.k.a. National Vanguard et al. creeps and that so many were willing to turn out and stand in solidarity with their fellow dark-skinned Americans.

Some of the things I didn't like: I didn't like the Socialists and what appeared to me to be Communist handfuls of individuals who were there on the anti-hate side. They -- like so many of us staunch Capitalist Pigs such as myself -- look at these right-wing extremists and note that out of control Capitalist greed is one of the major causes of much of the world's woes, and the fascist regime's invasion and indiscriminate slaughter of innocent Iraqis -- over 100,000 so far -- solely to seize control of their oil is a right-wing atrocity that _can_ be chalked up to Capitalism. But I look at the history of Socialism and Communism and I note that they're either just as bad as uncontrolled Capitalism, or they're worse. So I was put off by the few Socialists that showed up handing out literature.

Another thing I didn't quite like was the appeal for funding for the various incidental projects that the widely diverse group of
anti-hate activists have going. There's the effort to get the neo-Nazi Arnold Schwarzenegger removed from office and there was a request for funding donations toward that effort, but that wasn't the major reason why we were there in Baldwin Park. True, opposing these right-wing Republican racists ties in strongly with opposing the right-wing extremist politicians, but the focus was a bit fuzzied by all the secondary anti-fascism issues in BP2.

Still, the vast majority of the rally participants -- 99% of them or so -- were there to oppose the SOS / MM / American Nazi Party / Storm Front / National Vanguard a.k.a. Alliance white supremists scumbags so the minor annoyances I encountered were _really_ minor.

Another thing I wasn't sure I liked was the speeches that talked about the take over of California from Mexico and the injustice of it all. Yes, it was a genocide when Europeans invaded and slowly slaughtered (or quickly depending) the Domestic North American peoples who lived here. The complaints about the genocide and the oppression and injustice are absolutely justified and correct... But the rare and occasional comment I heard -- often in Spanish -- about how such injustice needs to be rectified by returning California and Texas to Mexico is something I can't agree with even in principle. (I'm willing to let them have Texas back since the State of Texas degrades the rest of the Union, of course.)

The dancing I quite liked. There were two or maybe three groups of dancers dressed in Native costume dancing along Downing out on the sidewalk and elsewhere where people in vehicles driving past could watch them -- at least until the light turned green. They were very good dancers and had obviously practices their art in closed-in spaces like the sidewalk as well as in open areas such as the circle dancing they performed near the Monument.

There was a table with a public address system and some shade and at the table there was an amusing skit played out for the large crowd watching. The skit consisted of what I believe might have been Christopher Columbus rampaging his way through South America, meeting peoples of brown skin, shaking their hands, and then wiping the "dirt" from his hands after each hand shake.

Whom ever it was being depicted -- Christopher Columbus or a white European invader, or a symbolic representation of such -- whoever it was kept telling the six of seven actors representing Native peoples that he wanted and needed their lands, so sorry, but you'll have to step aside as we come in and take over and if you stand in our way, we'll genocide you -- which then happened.

To be sure I didn't watch the whole skit since there was so much other stuff going on and I wanted to walk around and see what was up elsewhere. But the skit that I did see was done well and I was laughing every time the European or Columbus wiped his hands after shaking the hand of a Native. I noticed that none of the other mostly Hispanic crowd were laughing even at the places that I think were _supposed_ to be funny, so I shrugged my shoulders, and went looking to see what else was going on.

Hanging from the trees were various "Minutemen" with bizarre multi faces, and Arnold Schwarzenegger hanging from a tree. Some of them were pinatias (spelling?) that had candy and little games in them, and I saw some kids smacking one of them with sticks as an adult tugged a string to make the thing a bit difficult to hit. I had to laugh, thinking it's a shame the racists far, far down the street standing in their little dejected corner couldn't join in the fun we were having while we were opposing the hatred they stand for.

Before leaving I had wanted to see if I could get some photographs of the racists for the Dark Wind Project web site since it would be a damn shame to not document some of the known and avowed white supremists that are part of the SOS / MM. The barricade of yellow ribbon and police officers along Downing was solid and the cops were only allowing racists to cross -- which is how the amusing clown in the white construction hat and the equally amusing clown in the jungle camo pants wound up being chased through our ranks.

So I took to Badillo and started walking West toward Pacific Ave thinking I could then walk South to where the white supremists were stationed. All along Badillo there were police officers with a number of SWAT units, some medical vehicles, and even a pumper fire engine. Along Badillo near Pacific there were a number of anti-hate activists stationed with protest signs and the vehicles passing by were greatly supportive, keeping up a nearly constant stream of honking in support of these good Americans standing up against racism and bigotry.

Every nearby South/North side street was barricaded by yellow ribbon and lines of police officers. I had attempted to walk South to see if I could get photographs of the racists up close, but a police officer pointed at me after I had gotten maybe 5 feet past the yellow ribbon and politely asked me to return to the other side of the ribbon.

At the business parking lot on the corner of Badillo and Pacific, a very large group of anti-hate activists had gathered and with their protest signs had taken up a circular march. There were so many people there that it was difficult to get through them to see everything going on -- or to see if _anything_ other than a march was going on.

That large group of activists had an audience solely of the many police officers who were lined along the street keeping all the many anti-hate activists far from the racists way down the street. And when I looked at a map after Saturday's rally, I see that the cops had surrounded the racists with barricades of officers, vehicles, and K9 units. All vehicle traffic anywhere around the racists was shut down so the racists were left standing all alone on their corner of sidewalk, jacking each other off or whatever they did to keep themselves amused since nobody but themselves could see them.

And this seems so unfair to me in a number of ways. "Free Speech Zones" have been used against progressive Americans by the fascist Bush regime to suppress and oppress real American patriots, and here it was a bunch of right-wing hate mongers clapped into their own virtual "Free Speech Zone" of their own, hoist by their own petard, as it was. I bet not a one of these white bread Republican males ever thought they would be subjected to the right-wing tactic of isolating and thus totally nullifying protesters.

Since there was no way to get photographs of the racist kooks, I turned around and waited with others on the corner to cross the street to return to the main protest. Since the streets were being controlled by the cops, they were directing traffic with the stop lights in four-way-flash. While the cops continued to direct traffic, the people waiting to cross waited a long time politely for the cops to direct them across. After a good long time there was discussion and it was decided we would just wait for a break in traffic and start across -- which we did.

After attaining the oppose sidewalk, I mentioned to the guy on my left, "We made it!" and he said, "And without a rubber bullet in our legs, too!" }:-}

Walking back toward the main rally area near the Monument, I was once again amused by just how many police officers there were. It was an effort to make sure that everyone was well aware that any kind of misbehavior at all would be and could be dealt with quickly and decisively. But they need not have bothered: We're all peaceful protesters, as usual, would probably wouldn't have lunched the racists even if there hasn't been a single cop around to save them. That's not what we're about, after all. At worse the white supremists would be subjected to another massive denouncement for their hatred and bigotry of anyone with dark skin, but considering the vehicular assault these "Save Our State" a.k.a. "Minutemen" scumbags committed in Baldwin Park, by far the good guys had much more to worry about at the hands of out-of-control racists than they had to worry about us peaceful protesters.

Upon returning to the Monument crowd, I noticed that it had grown even larger. While my Spanish is improving, I wasn't able to understand much of what was being said on the public address system when the talk was in Spanish, but I was amused to pick out various phrases I _could_ understand.

"Operation Wetback Two" was one amusing phrase i liked. I had to laugh at that one though I did so from the privilege of my white face. I suspect that the victims of racism who have dark skin probably don't find anything the racists do to be at all amusing. But the fact of the matter is that I find so much of the issues to be amusing in a variety of ways, with the white supremists kooks being the most amusing by far.

In the middle of the Metrolink Rail Station parking lot -- which was closed to vehicles for obvious reasons -- there was a long line of activists holding large signs on long sticks which -- when placed side to side -- showed a strong anti-hate, pro-diversity, pro-America message, one of strength from unity. When the activists turned their signs, it showed the backs of Americans, symbolically turning their backs on racism, intolerance, bigotry, and everything these "Save Our State" a.k.a. "Minutemen" a.k.a. National Vanguard et al. clowns stand for. I was careful to get a good set of photographs of that since it was a good -- very good -- message.

That's pretty much how it happened. The cops kept the peace and none of the white supremists ran over any of the good guys in their vans this time around. I didn't see any arrests but then there was so much going on that I would have missed them simply due to probabilities and chance.

The City of Baldwin Park is to be commended not only for standing up against these white supremists scumbags and now bowing to their terrorist death threats, but also because their police officers behaved themselves, acted professionally and calmly, and did a good job making sure the _people_ of the community were both safe and afforded their Constitutional right to demonstrate. I can't imagine that the racists are at all happy with being segregated in a virtual Republican "Free Speech Zone" and I would hope that the racists complain about that.

And a good time was had by all.

My opinions only, of course, and nobody else's.
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RICE IS EITHER REALLY CRACKED OUT OR SOME KIND OF AGENT OR BOTH

by WHITE ON RICE Monday, Jun. 27, 2005 at 8:41 PM

Okay, I have had some email contact with this guy Fred Rice and judging from his emails and from the posts he puts on Indymedia, I have been weighing whether I should say something and alert people, how to do it, etc.

This guy says some really whack shit that leads me to believe he's either really cracked out or some kind of agent. At the least, I think he's really ignorant and more than a little creepy. Some of the stuff he says is pretty violent and seems designed to intentionally rile you up. Really weird stuff with strange racist, sexist, homophobic undertones that I don't want to go into detail about but just look at the nasty undertone of his postings here ("rightards", "low IQ", "scumbags" etc.) and imagine if he felt a little more comfortable expressing himself to you and you might get the picture. It's strange--he rants about fighting the hate-mongers and white "supremists" but at the same time, somehow his words always convey some weird nastiness underneath, if that makes sense.

If he is some kind of govt. agent, he's a really clumsy one, so maybe he's an SOS/white "supremist" plant. Or maybe he's just really ignorant and/or kind of crazy and messed up in the head. I'm a pretty tolerant person who gives people lots of chances to be themselves, and I try not to judge people and all that, but this guy really creeps me out with some of the stuff he says. Also, anyone notice how frequently he posts here?

I would avoid this guy, and take anything he says with a grain of salt.

But that's just MY opinion, of course.
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Outing SOS

by sosisstupid Tuesday, Jun. 28, 2005 at 6:43 AM

Outing SOS...
sos_13_1_.jpgonzshi.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480

Last Great Hope = Chris Spellman
cspellman@myself.com
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Response to white on rice

by Siqueiros Tuesday, Jun. 28, 2005 at 7:06 AM

I haven't read any of Rice's other postings, but this one seems tame and informative. On the other had, White on Rice seems paranoid. What White on Rice claimed as justificiation for inciting something unlawful sounds like language used by kindergarden students when they are about to fight each other. Get a hold of yourself!
The fact of the matter is that the instigators and "agents" were in the same area where the separatist "socialists" were at during the Baldwin Park event.
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Response to white on rice

by Siqueiros Tuesday, Jun. 28, 2005 at 7:11 AM

I haven't read any of Rice's other postings, but this one seems tame and informative. On the other had, White on Rice seems paranoid. What White on Rice claimed as justificiation for inciting something unlawful sounds like language used by kindergarden students when they are about to fight each other. Get a hold of yourself!
The fact of the matter is that the instigators and "agents" were in the same area where the separatist "socialists" were at during the Baldwin Park event.

Do you notice how the "Socialists" have yet to unite with Mexican people, their culture, and their connection to this land? Not once have they admitted that this is stolen Indian/Mexican land. What kind of socialists are these people?
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Golly!

by Fredric L. Rice Tuesday, Jun. 28, 2005 at 8:30 AM
frice@skeptictank.org

Wow! How totally bizarre!

Well, I suppose when some anonymous, unfortunate individual can’t point to anything in any of my postings that’s incorrect, wrong, or even “sadly mistaken,” suggesting I’m a gay COINTELPRO agent for SOSMM under the control of Tom Cruise and the Illuminati might be worth a try. I guess.

Do me a big favor, please, and let me know when you find anything in any of my postings that’s in error. And kindly do it without the amusing Republican right-wing conspiracy, grassy knoll, should-have-taken-my-meds notions, please. And do be sure to offer _specifics_, not vague, untestable, unverifiable allegations. After all, I can’t improve myself if you don’t help.

Thanks in advance for your prompt assistance! }:-}
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nice review darkwind

by daveyt Tuesday, Jun. 28, 2005 at 5:32 PM

i was there for all that. couldn't have said it better. hey why did that one guy get shuffled off by the county (?) squad? could it be that he was arrested because he refused to be denied access to SOS? can't think of any other reason. although he did have a TV interview just before the shuffled him off!
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Rice the Pinhead

by Shabba Dabba Doo Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 5:39 AM
no no no

Violence isn't what your about...?

Bullshit.

Violence and Ignorance are your calling cards.

The Brown Berets are an organization similar to the Dodo....they're on their way out. I doubt even Black Panthers would stand with the wild eyed madmen you are associating with.

By the way...Baldwin park WAS NOT Operation Wetback. That's still coming. This was a warning. A wake up call. We've been taken advantage of long enough and we're done supporting your Illegal families.

The Re-conquista is a joke as well. In order to Re conquer, you must have conquered it before. This land will never be yours.

From my child's cold dead hands....after he takes my weapon from my cold dead hands.

This is my land. This is my fight.


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"white on rice" is a smear artist

by Hex Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 7:54 AM

After seeing this thread in the hidden section (which I regularly check)

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2005/06/130865.php

I datamined Fred. He's clean, he's been opposing Republicans, right-wing hate groups and Scientology kooks for years. His websites check out too.

SOS et'al are simply trying to smear him

That's why no actual person signs the smear posts and why NO evidence is brought up at all ever to back the claim up..

Looking above and then checking out his websites you'll see "white on rice" is lying exactly opposite of what Fred's doing

"creepy" and "thought I'd warn you" are pure smear.

White on rice HAS nothing to offer except this and hopes you won't bother to check it out for yourself

I did - and I found very damning information on his website about SOS,MM, etc..

This explains the smearing..

If you have any question about it at all, simply surf there and see for yourself



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not a smear

by WHITE ON RICE Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 8:58 AM

I wish it were just a smear.

Fred does have some good information, and I hope people do look at it and take what they will from it, but I'm telling you, I have had some email exchanges with this guy and he's creepy, man! he says some really weird, disturbing shit and I think people should be warned that there's something not quite right here, that's all.

I'm not SOS, I'm on the left, I'm against SOS. That's why I hesitated for so long to even say anything about Fred. But I was just so disturbed with some of the stuff he's said to me in private, not to mention the weirdness he exhibits in public. I would post some of it here but then that would identify me and seeing how creeped out I am by him, I don't want to do that.

That's all. I'll drop it now. This isn't a big orchestrated smear campaign, so I don't need to say anymore than I already have. Like I said before, see for yourself, don't take my word for it.

maybe Fred is just really creepy and means well. But I'm telling you, some of the stuff he's said to me is kind of bizarre and racist and homophobic in this really weird way--like, he's championing our cause but then at the same time, some weird shit will slip out that's really racist in a way that suggests to me that there's some screws loose. maybe I shouldn't have conjectured that he was a plant or something, but there's definitely something wacked about him and after my communication with him, I thought I should say something because I was freaked out by it. that's all.

at the very least, Fred maybe seriously needs to examine where he's coming from because some of the stuff he says is really f-d up and really counter to what those of us on the "left" are trying to do.

I won't say anything else about it.
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That about says it all

by Fredric L. Rice Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 9:02 AM
frice@skeptictank.org

What's telling is that none of the unffortunate individuals complaining about the accurate coverage of the anti-hate rally are ever capable of pointing at anything mistaken. It's always vague, unspecific, untestable claims.

Still, this is informative:

> From my child's cold dead hands....after he
> takes my weapon from my cold dead hands.

A lot of these racists are in fear of whites being out bred here in North America. They look at it as an assault against their families. They consider their children growing up in an increasingly-non white America to be a war against their children. And from a lot of the hate rhetoric I've been reviewing, it looks to me like a lot of them believe it's some kind of _deliberate_ war against white people; that non-whites are deliberately out breeding whites delibertately to take over.

Interesting.

Any way, when any SOSMM National Vanguard Storm Front American Nazi Party individual can point to anything inaccurate or mistaken in any of the coverage of the anti-hate rally, they may do so at any time. Why they're not doing so is certainly a mystery. }:-}
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He's clean

by Fredric L. Rice Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 9:08 AM
frice@skeptictank.org

You can't imagine how many unfortunate right-wing nuts think I'm CIA or COINTELPRO or something associated with the United Nations. I've even been accused of being an alien from outer space and have been accused of slaughtering every living being on a planet before -- among other right-wing conspiracy kook notions.

I -- like most people -- look at these trolls and maybe read the first sentence they post, then dismiss them out right. When they can't point to any actual mistake, inaccuracy, or anything that's wrong in what I write, their bizarre complaints and notions are irrelevant.

What remains is opposing racists, utilizing their own words and actions. My opinions are irrelevant; their own words and actions are what tells the tale.
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I did a through search

by Hex Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 10:33 AM

> I have had some email exchanges with this guy

Post them


And what you've just described about being "creeped out" is an intentional effort TO creep you out - a psychological tactic designed to explore and expose lairs and people out of touch with themselves. I was reviewing the subjects and found the source of the "creeped out" feeling you've complained about ;



The Homophobia/Homosexuality issue -

New Study Links Homophobia with Homosexual Arousal
http://www.elmerfudd.us/darkwind/gayfear.htm

This was a research project by the American Psychological Association (APA) where researchers at the University of Georgia conducted an experiment involving 35 homophobic men and 29 nonhomophobic men as measured by the Index of Homophobia scale. All the participants selected for the study described themselves as exclusively heterosexual both in terms of sexual arousal and experience.

Each participant was exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual and lesbian videotapes (but not necessarily in that order). Their degree of sexual arousal was measured by penile plethysmography, which precisely measures and records male tumescence.

Men in both groups were aroused by about the same degree by the video depicting heterosexual sexual behavior and by the video showing two women engaged in sexual behavior. The only significant difference in degree of arousal between the two groups occurred when they viewed the video depicting male homosexual sex: 'The homophobic men showed a significant increase in penile circumference to the male homosexual video, but the control [nonhomophobic] men did not.'


And some more -

Racism, Homophobia, and low IQs go Hand in Hand
http://www.elmerfudd.us/darkwind/stacey.htm


So I can understand why you would be "creeped out" however you should blame the APA and the University of Georgia, not Fredric. He's only bringing it to your attention - he didn't do these studies himself. Research I already knew about BTW..

I mined several other terms including "Jewish", "JDL", "Republican", "Scientology" and checked for cuss-words, drug usage, and flake terms like "UFO", "Chemtrails", etc

The only thing I found was a few cuss words, Jewish used insted of Zionist a few times, saying he smoked pot but now on here saying he's never done "narcotics" and implying any drug(S) at all, all very minor slips of the tongue over the past 20 years for the 64,000 times his name came up...

No one's perfect but he's clean - there's no systematic or ongoing faults.

Matter of fact he does and has done far more than I can do - all I do is run a small pirate station, have a wireless public internet "hot spot" and generally stay pretty isolated from IMC - and only for the past 5 years compared to his 20..

I thought it odd how much he posts but I saw he's already "blogging" and just pasting here, thought 64,000 hits was more than 1 person could do, but that's over a 20 year period..

He uses web hosting services (bundled) - a smart thing to do with all the hackers around, and many other people and groups do likewise..

He's open & honest enough to invite e-mail, uses his real name and posts pictures of himself that you could ID him with, is seen in public where he could be ran over by SUV's and goes to the protests and helps out - all things I'm unwilling or unable to do..

(of course since I run pirate transmitters I need to be cautious - I've already been busted once by the FCC in my *present location*) and I'm out in the boonies, very far from the action in places like LA, NY or Wash.. A poor factory worker layed off with little money, busted back down to dialup that I could lose at any time.

So if you have some dirt on him you need to post it, because his record, history, and actions speak for themselves

Re: being accused

I just saw that as I started to post and yes I've seen them.. People often do this since devoid of facts smearing is all they have. I didn't pay any attention at all to it until I saw the thread that was hidden. I then decided to check you out.. Nobody is perfect but you do and have done a hell of a lot more than I have plus I get those accusations myself (the worlds first pirate radio station spook ?) When anyone can drive by and tune my signal in on the radio to see for themselves - but that's another subject..


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which precisely measures and records male tumescence

by I can do it Hex Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 11:13 AM

But ----
Please oh please don't make me. AGGGHhhhhh!
Okay, there's that, a 10 penny nail through a 3/4 " plywood
4X8 but don't call me anymore, Marilyn.
You are a bit needlessly confrontational on petty points of definition,devicive, arrogant, condescending and well, boring but did you also say you were a scientist?
Tell us more, we are ... interested, I mean it.
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now look who's whining

by Hex Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 11:35 AM

I have dreadful prose too

But at least I'm not a sneaky assed weasle who goes around acting "polite" while backstabbing his way up the ladder to gain trusted power so he can use it to exclude and control using catch phrases and poisoning constructive relationships for his benefit of keeping good people away so he can impose his own second-guessing ankle-biting games.
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Not Again, Hex

by I can do it Hex Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 12:48 PM

But ----
Please oh please don't make me. AGGGHhhhhh!
Now I pissed on a 40KV transformer and the power grid for the state is out.
Did you also say you were a scientist?
Tell us more, we are ... interested, I mean it.
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I was occupied - sorry

by Hex Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 2:24 PM

I was away, the new neighbors had a phone installed and the company hooked it up to the wrong address, he unplugged my connection thinking it was his phone, and his line was going to one of our boxes around back. I had rewire my connection to him and re-connect my line..


> tell *us* more, *we* interested

Who is us & we - am I dialoguing with someone that matters - someone in IMC ?

The question has been asked & answered before, recently



Re: the psychologically loaded statements Fred made in e-mail

Yeah search engines don't reveal private exchanges in e-mail unless someone posts them in a public forum, that's why I asked you to specify

I did see him being pretty rude to one lady as if he was in high school and not acting his age - I chalked it up to a bad day or something

The Jewish (not Zionist or Israel) problem popped up about 40 times but that was over a 20 year span, I didn't check the timestamps to see when the comments were made to see if most were before the Jewish v Zionist distiction was ironed out so there could be a problem there as well



> he could only take so much before puking.


Hmmm that's pretty weird too, something else he wouldn't dare say in a public forum either and I coundn't find

So it's not just a personality conflict/fault at issue not just a mischievous trickster joking around but something deeper and more disturbing that he only reveals in private where the public can't see

Combining this with the image datamining provided, shows something really weird is up with him as he's making a concerted effort to both hide it from public view and is careful enough to keep the two personalities separate which indicates he has the discipline that only profoundly disturbed people have


> kept sending me emails


that's not a good sign either - the action of a stalker or something..



> trying to get me to download a file onto my computer.

that's a big red flag right there - if you don't have a secured system like I do the file could be a trojan/virus/worm and he would "own you", theres a lot he could do, like log your typing/passwords, steal your personal data, use your computer to launch DoS against others with you taking the blame, etc


I wish I had the file so I could analyse it... It's possible for a virus to even take the form of ASCII (text) data and be executed just by opening it.


> intentionally trying to creep me out

Theres a lot of people that do that for different reasons in different amounts, what you've described definately goes beyond the average well into the danger zone. I wouldn't say agent though with his history of 20 years but he should do some serious explaining in light of what you've revealed.

Thanks for the heads up

Lets see what he has to say now..


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Dealing

by johnk Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 2:43 PM

Maybe this is Rice's way of dealing with his anger.

One way you can tell someone has anger is that they seek out conflict, so they can express it. Some do it by finding enemies, but others do it in the context of alliance. I'm not pointing fingers or throwing stoned in my glass house. Anger's in me too.

It's definitely in a lot of his posts.

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make me entertain you

by Hex Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 3:15 PM

> needlessly confrontational on petty points of definition


need is entirely subjective, we can't all be as smooth and slick as the big city boys, liberal minds are suppost to embrace diversity not bash it.

confront - as opposed to what ? being dysfunctional then passive-aggressive ?

petty - pettyness has many faces and we tend to be blind to our own - I could quite easyly fling the same mud





> devicive

that old chestnut again.. Odd all the damage certain un-named members of IMC did to the Seattle branch (which I closely followed and archived) don't get slapped with this label, yet some of those *very members* feel free to go around applying it to patrons who's biggest crime was to merely post comments - not even start threads, while certain destructive trolls - because they play the popularity card - are reprieved

Again it's who you know and what games you play rather than what you know or do


> arrogant, condescending


it goes with the turf - when you design and build circuits from scratch (best example but only one of many) there will always be people who in the process of labeling and excluding will latch upon this easy pot shot for anyone in any way smarter than themselves

the giveaway is people like me - techs and scientists *never use such labels* - we don't need to, we are comfortable with outselves. If we have differences of opinion or other personality clashes we *figure and work them out on a more CIVIL level* without resorting to PETTY and CONDESCENDING labeling

In my crowd people like you are seen for what you really are and we treat eachother with respect - just the opposite of what you're doing here

so again it's who you know - who the crowd is that determines whether your the outsider looking in or the insider looking out

IMC isn't run by a group of techs so naturally I don't fit in

But said persons latching on it to unfairly characterize and put down is a whole different ball of wax - when this happens it reveals

"You can tell more about a person by what he says about other people than by what other people say about him"

Specificly, if a person resorts to cheap putdowns based on group think (conformity) and plays the popularity card as a defense and shield for his own failings it adds little weight to the accusations and insted reveals *how low he's willing to stoop* just to put down others which serves the real need


My condescension is always expressed as a challenge to *self-educate* which gives a new meaning to the world when compared to the WHINERS who only see a shallow meaning of it - just ask any Oriental (just one example of a culture that welcomes such challenges as a means of self-improvement)

For me it's a form of discrimination based on cultural ignorance - the very thing racism derives from

With the perp being blind to it of course - just ask any SOSMM or other racist about your culture and you will get exactly the same song & dance

Your so busy thinking your own culture is all that - you never even consider *how you appear to other cultures* - that YOU may be racist yourself, above reproach and faultless

Insted you project your ignorance onto other's just as SOSMM does to you

"Boring" scientists (specificly anthropologists) are well aware of this..

In my crowd YOU are the sore thumb, the excluded, the looked down upon, yet we still have enough respect to encourage self-education, with the word "boring" non-existent because there's always something to learn no matter who you talk to or what you talk about - we're able to *change poison into medicine* on our own efforts, not rely on other's to ENTERTAIN us then whine about being bored when they fail to do so...



Re: anger issues

yeah we all do - the key being in how we deal with it, some people are quite dysfunctional but then again (in his case) we're looking at a 20 year snapshot and people do grow and learn.. That's the real question, *are* we learning and changing..

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It's as I wrote before

by omo Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 3:40 PM

Hex the wonderful, brilliant and radical thinker.
Not hardly.

But mostly after the long and verbose meandering trail of your reasoning I still find myself bored and wishing you had something to say.
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life just isn't as simple

by Hex Wednesday, Jun. 29, 2005 at 4:17 PM
the name always changes but the attitude never does

as a simplistic mind wishes.



so there is no pleasing you is there ?



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Bullshit, Hex

by Fredric L. Rice Thursday, Jun. 30, 2005 at 9:14 AM
frice@skeptictank.org

> saying he smoked

Do you have a URL for that claim?

What the _fuck_ gave you the idea that I claimed I ever smoked pot?

I appreciate the research you did and the accurate coverage of my background, but here you made a claim about me that I insist you provide a reference for.

Thanks.
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Yes, he's a liar

by Fredric L. Rice Thursday, Jun. 30, 2005 at 9:22 AM
frice@skeptictank.org

> kept sending me emails

I don't send unsolicited email. I _never_ send unsolicited email. If this individual is trying to claim that I "keep sending him email" it's _always_ in reply to email that _he_ sent me. This has been my policy since 1978 -- so his claim is false. The fact that he can't produce any emails with headers is proof enough.

And yes, I'll be sure to move all of his and all of mine emails to The Dark Wind this evening, complete with headers. Since he wants to lie about me, I'm now free to publish his emails.

Then we have:

> trying to get me to download a file onto my computer.

This is another lie. He couldn't offer any specifics or offer any headers because he's a liar. I don't send files unless they're requested through http://www.skeptictank.org/flist000.htm and even then it's an automated system.

> intentionally trying to creep me out

I get the impression that people with dark skin "creep" him "out." I'm certainly not responsible for the mental difficulties of others -- more so when they email _me_ in emails that start out spewing hatred -- which I will post to Dark Wind this evening, every last one of them (assuming this individual is azcactus.)

> Lets see what he has to say now..

I say he needs to back up his outrageous claims with evidence. I also say I'll post his emails for all to see now that he's invited me to do so.
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the search engines make it look like it

by Hex Thursday, Jun. 30, 2005 at 11:29 AM

> What the _fuck_ gave you the idea that I claimed I ever smoked pot?



You have thousands of articles, USEnet posts and letters where it's mentioned, all with your full name at the bottom (e-mail)

- the search engines flag those and make it look like you said it ;




http://discus.xenu.net/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?lm=1044975148&file=/3085/3280.html


Operation Clambake Forum: NarCONon PUSHit's in there! Fredric L. Rice (Damotclese) ... "Before entering the Narconon Program I was all messed up on pot and meth. But today I'm off drugs and


http://www.factnet.org/Books/BareFacedMessiah/chap10.htm

`I liked Sara and Miles a lot. They eventually married and got a house in Malibu and we became friends; I remember they introduced me to pot.



http://www.crackpots.org/account.htm

Narconon victim says: 'Yes I went to NARCONON AND IT SUCKED!'I must admit I had a pretty bad drug problem, I smoked pot, took large ... And now a happy ending, YES I still enjoy smoking pot (NOT NEAR WHAT I USED TO) ...


http://www.skeptictank.org/gen1/gen00244.htm

Hilarious Scientology put downWhen that didn't work, I decided I needed to delve deeper into the pot, and started fucking around with religion. ... E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank.


http://www.crackpots.org/74report.htm

Tennant Report on Narconon, 1974: Misleading ClaimsBy his own testimony he had tried "pot" approximately five times and LSD once. He apparently was familiar with the ... E-Mail Fredric L. Rice, The Skeptic Tank.


http://www.skeptictank.org/pr/prpt071.htm

Picket, San Diego, 14 October 2001 14 Oct 2001We received several honks, waves, thumbs up, and a "Smoke more pot!" acknowlegement. Heh! ... E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank.



http://www.skepticfiles.org/aj/sleepnot.htm

A Programmer's Nightlife Hank Tassin Navel Lint 1:3800/6.9 Sleep ...... was thinking about the program) I get up, light up a smoke, put on a pot of coffee, and jump in the shower. ...

E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank.


http://www.skepticfiles.org/weird/pregnant.htm

This Article is taken from The Herbalist, newsletter of the ...If you are blessed with a nettle patch near you, use the fresh plant as pot herb in the spring. ... E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank.


http://www.skepticfiles.org/tanj/tanj050.htm

There Ain't No Justice Number 050I had a almost insatible appetite for pot. It wasn't uncommon for me to smoke 2-4 ounces a week. ... E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank


http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys4/sh830804.htm

3610 West 6th Street, #833 Los Angeles, California 90020 August 4 ...I've got a dry mouth, after smoking pot. That's good for playing a harmonica. Now, I'm lying on my sleeping bag, ...

E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank.

http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys4/

Skeptic Tank Text Archive Filenorml.htm POT PROHIBITION.? JUST SAY. NORML NATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR THE REFORM OF MARIJUANA LAWS The government ... E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank.


http://www.skepticfiles.org/hacker/cud605.htm

Computer underground Digest Tue Jan 11 1994 Volume 6 : Issue 05 ...But my friend was growing pot (a terrible crime -- aren't you glad that his punishment is greater, ... E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank.




http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys5/tazdoc.htm

Section II. INORGANIC MATTER 1. Solid Matter #321. Density.. - N ...... is robbed every year, & that every year nearly half a million of us are arrested just for smoking pot. ... E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank.



http://www.skepticfiles.org/skep2/warnke.htm

Files in this archive: CONTENTS You're reading it now FORMAT.NOT ...... into drug use early in the year: When we tried the peyote, we decided it was better and heavier than pot. ... E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank.


http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys4/seniors.htm

The Book of the Seniors by Benjamin Rowe Copyright 1986, 1992 by ...I had also smoked some pot a while earlier for relaxation, and still had my supply out, but disguised from view ... E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank.



http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys4/book.htm

Conversations with a Satanist Tommy Savage © 1993 Tommy Savage ...... God and Jesus as the savior of man, they were drinking, smoking pot, and making out with their girlfriends. ... E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank.



http://www.skepticfiles.org/conspire/terrordo.htm

The Terrorist's Handbook Written BY: UNKNOWN AUTHOR HEAVILY EDITED ...... g) plastic bags (3) charcoal (15 g) 300-500 ml beaker (1) distilled water coffee pot or heat source 1) Place ... E-Mail Fredric L. Rice / The Skeptic Tank.


Your probably aware that some of the information on your website (bomb making instructions) is now illegal..



because of the sheer volume of material it would take years to wade through it all (there were 67,300 hits on just your name alone; Results 1 - 10 of about 67,300 for "Fredric L. Rice". )

It would take days to even check the titles (as above)..

PS - the responses I gave are to data that is not available on here, my quotes are only partial and sanitized..





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Thanks, Hex

by Fredric L. Rice Thursday, Jun. 30, 2005 at 12:47 PM
frice@skeptictank.org

Okay, thanks Hex. I was thinking that there was some web page out there forged by someone claiming to be me... Not that I would _really_ care since I ignore a great many web pages out there created by Creationists, Scientology leader, and the odd Pentecostal, all of which I dismiss as "to be expected."

A great many of the web pages that I and my volunteers over the years have posted on Skeptic Tank, Crackpots, HolySmoke,. cosvm.org, and so many others -- like SkepticFiles.ORG -- come from a large variety of sources and since my name and email is at the bottom of every one of them, I get a lot of people thinking I write them despite the fact that the author is almost always given toward the top of the web page.

SkepticFiles.ORG, for instance, came from the old Brad Hicks archives that predate when DARPANet started going commercial to morph into the Internet, and then those archives were combined with the GodNet archives and then later the AstroNet archives which go back to the early 1970's.

And I still get people emailing me about a lot of it thinking I wrote them. And since there's like half a million or so web pages I've got up, some people think I'm paid or something to write the stuff, or they think I'm a flying saucer kook and no end of stuff.

For the record: No, I've never been arrested, never smoked pot or did any kind of illegal narcotic, nor have I ever been drunk. Web pages posted to the Internet by either me or a Skeptic Tank volunteer over the years are authored by their authors who _should_ be indicated on each and every page. If there are pages where the authorship is _not_ indicated, I need to track those down and edit them.

Any way, thanks for the update.
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