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"Save Our State" / "Minutemen" Issue City Threats?

by Fredric L. Rice Wednesday, Jun. 22, 2005 at 6:26 AM
frice@skeptictank.org

"I would love for them to arrest me,' SOS Executive Director Joseph Turner said Monday. "I am looking to inflict all the pain I can on Baldwin Park."

http://www.sgvtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,205~12220~2930770,00.html

The right-wing San Gabriel Valley Tribune contains a brief article covering the anti-hate rally scheduled this June 25'th in Baldwin Park, California(see http://www.thedarkwind.org/june25.htm for details and directions) and once again the paper gets it wrong.

It appears to me that this SOSMM individual has issued what looks to me to be what amounts to a threat against the City of Baldwin Park once again, but the article mistakenly suggests that there's only two groups and that the good guys have acquired the permit while the bad guys have refused to.

Not so. There are going to be dozens of different groups there participating in opposing race hatred and bigotry, and one small group of the usual suspects whose numbers wouldn't qualify it to require such a permit in the first place.

At the same time the "The Committee to Defend Danzas Indigenas" is probably mistaken in thinking they'll have 500 in their group alone. I'm left wondering if they've outrageously taken it upon themselves to gather all dozens of diverse anti hate groups under a single umbrella.

My opinions only, of course. Reading the SOSMM people's statements, web sites, and discussion forums, I get the impression we're looking at another 1960's Alabama.

http://www.sgvtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,205~12220~2930770,00.html

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1960's Alabama?

by Fed Up Wednesday, Jun. 22, 2005 at 8:45 AM

tactic one of the socialist, lefts playbook... turn an event into something from the past, to elicit compassion and hate. Beautiful job...keep playing the race card, it really helps.(Sarcasm).Even the politico leadership of LA know that they have to tone down their speeches.
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Translation: Loser!

by Fredric L. Rice Wednesday, Jun. 22, 2005 at 8:59 AM
frice@skeptictank.org

> tactic one of the socialist, lefts playbook...

Well, I suppose when one's left utterly incapable of defending his ideologies ilk, pretending one's intellectual and moral superiors are "Socialist" is one way to avoid the embarrassing problem.

You lose. Again.
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Fred Rice hypocrite racist Rubbish

by littlebopeep Wednesday, Jun. 22, 2005 at 4:36 PM

Comint from you Fred, this means a whole lot, doesn't it? Not...
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Racists and bigots

by Tim Duncan Thursday, Jun. 23, 2005 at 4:56 AM
aaabbbccc@yahoo.com 123-123-1234

Why is it that the pro-immigration advocates refuse to debate or address the real world issues, but instead label everyone that wants our nations laws enforce a 'racist' and 'bigot'? Because they want to disarm their opponents, instigate racial hatred and division, and prevent the enforcement of our nations laws for a select and priviledge ethnic group.

As a race and culture, I think Latinos are wonderful people with a rich cultural heritage. My step mother is a Mexican citizen. But this debate isn't about race and it isn't about human rights. Despite the slander of the far left, It is NOT a basic human right for everyone on the planet to migrate and reside in the United States. It is a PRIVILEGE for legal citizens and legal immigrants to live here. A PRIVILEGE granted by the US government.

But the far left will argue that LATINOS have a god-given human right to live here in their sacred AZTLAN anad that all non-Latinos should be expelled as foriegn invaders. OK, so who's the racist and bigot? How would the Latino community feel if they were suddenly displaced in housing and jobs by 3,000,000 Pakistanis migrating freely into Southern CA, taking their jobs for $30/month? They would suddenly scream about the injustice and the crimes of allowing all those Pakistanis to migrate unmitigated into "their country". They would suddenly lobby fiercly for the rigorous enforcement of our immigration laws ... against this one ethnic group of Pakistanis.

You say this isn't a fair comparison? Why not? The only difference is in the physical difficulty in immigrating from Central America versus Pakistan. Why should Latinos and Pakistanis be treated any different? Oh, MECHA says that Latinos are a 'special' race that have a god-given right to the American SouthWest, and that all other ethnic groups should be expelled, violently if necessary.

Again, what hypocrites for a group that calls itself "La Raza" to label others as 'racists' that simply want immigration into our country to be legal and controlled by our government's laws. The only reason they do so is because they themselves are racists and bigots.

Let's all put the race card down and ask how do you solve REAL problems presented by unchecked, unlimited immigration by ANY foreign national of ANY ethnicity? Our classrooms are overcrowded and our school systems struggle to provide anything but the basic educational resources to our children. Our healthcare systems are shutting down under the massive burden of caring for the uninsured. We are saddling our children and grandchildren with TRILLIONS of dollars of budget deficits. Our prisons are overflowing with illegal alien criminals. Our law enforcement agencies are ignoring non-violent crimes because they are overwhelmed with gangs, drugs, and street violence. There are vast areas of our nations metropolitan areas that are the domain of violent gangs and are basically unsafe for anyone other than local residents and the police. The vast majority of illegal aliens facing deportation proceedings disappear and never show for their court hearings. The costs of providing social services to illegal aliens and the lost tax revenue due to the cash-only under-the-counter employment market favored by illegal aliens COSTS our government $65 BILLION PER YEAR and growing!

These are REAL problems that have NOTHING to do with race. These issues aren't being voiced by racists and bigots ... they are being raised by concerned US Citizens who's wallets are funding the bill for the unmitigated and wonton abrogation of our nation's immimgration laws. They aren't asking for a stop to all immmigration ... our nation was founded on immigration ... they are asking for our government to stop ILLEGAL immigration of ANY foriegn national, regardless of race or ethnicity.
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OneEyedMan

by KPC Thursday, Jun. 23, 2005 at 8:01 AM
KPC

Tim, I agree that there is too much baiting on both sides, but your overly generalized characterizations of "the left" are just as much baiting as a call of "racist" by those who oppose SOS/MM.

If you took the time to learn about "La Raza" and other latino group, you will see that what they are about is the advancement of their members, and are no more racist than the NAACP.

The majority of those who show up in opposition to the SOS/MM do not belong to any of these organizations. And there are plenty of Anglo-Americans who oppose the SOS/MM, and it is not because they are 'self-hating' or want a return to 'Aztlan', but because they percieve SOS/MM as being more concerned with vilifying those undocumented immigrants caught up in a broken system than they are with fixing that system. This may or may not be true with many of the members of SOS/MM, but it certainly gives that appearance in regards to the leadership...especially when rallies at obscure monuments are arranged primarily because they are provocative rather than productive.

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Clean your yard

by Fredric L. Rice Thursday, Jun. 23, 2005 at 8:40 AM
frice@skeptictank.org

> Why is it that the pro-immigration advocates refuse
> to debate or address the real world issues, but
> instead label everyone that wants our nations laws
> enforce a 'racist' and 'bigot'?

I don't think all anti-immigration individuals are racists or bigots. I'm against most immigration at this point.

But to address your inquiry:

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=13

Try cleaning your yard and see if people stop accusing you on the basis of the people you hang out with.
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og jeg?

by Donnachaidh Thursday, Jun. 23, 2005 at 11:07 AM

-"If you took the time to learn about "La Raza" and other latino group, you will see that what they are about is the advancement of their members, and are no more racist than the NAACP."

As a native born "Anglo" Southern Californian. where do i fit into La Raza's "advancement of its people?" If I like being able to drink out of my sink without then spending a month sitting on a toilet, does that mean that I will now have to "relocate" myself? What if I dont like having to bribe police on the side of the road, will I be imprisioned? What if I'm an environmentalist and I like having pollution controls, Will my words be silenced? What if I recognize the dangers of living in an earthquake prone area and think building stardards are a good idea?

Cound I now argue that groups such as National Aliance, Stormfront, ect... are also simply about "advancement" of ones own kin?
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U Suck

by johnk Thursday, Jun. 23, 2005 at 11:37 AM

>As a native born "Anglo" Southern Californian. where do i fit into La Raza's "advancement of its people?" If I like being able to drink out of my sink without then spending a month sitting on a toilet, does that mean that I will now have to "relocate" myself? What if I dont like having to bribe police on the side of the road, will I be imprisioned? What if I'm an environmentalist and I like having pollution controls, Will my words be silenced? What if I recognize the dangers of living in an earthquake prone area and think building stardards are a good idea?<

Where you seem to want to fit in, is as an antagonistic jerk. Can you ask any more thinly-veiled racist rhetorical questions? (Yeah, I bet you have a mental rolodex of unjustified gripes against many different groups. Do you own a shotgun to protect your dogs from being eaten by Asian people?)

>Cound I now argue that groups such as National Aliance, Stormfront, ect... are also simply about "advancement" of ones own kin?<

No. Simply read their rhetoric. It's not about *advancing* anything except racial purity for white people. It's *against* immigration, against Mexicans, against non-European cultures immigrating, against open borders, and against a host of problems that they attribute to Latinos. ***Just like SOS.*** There's so much overlap, that I have a sneaking suspicion that the SOS lifted their agenda from WS groups.
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Herr jonk

by Donnachaidh Friday, Jun. 24, 2005 at 8:38 AM

-" Where you seem to want to fit in, is as an antagonistic jerk. Can you ask any more thinly-veiled racist rhetorical questions?"

There is no need for insults here. I simply stated my observations from numerous trips to Mexico I have made. Have YOU been to Mexico? If you have not experienced what "La Raza" is like on their home turf, then you are surely in for a surprise when they take over here. Do you think there will be ANY difference from the Mexico they are running from by the millions? NO! It will become the same cesspool that mexico is and then "La Raza" will then claim to be related to some other tribe on NA's, so they can continue the leach of the system which is supported by Anglo-Americans.

On the other question, how is White-preservation a threat to non whites? what, they wont be able to get free healthcare that they didnt earn, they wont be able to get free schooling which they dont deserve? Tthey will return to their miserable existence with no hope of excape to a prosperous European nation? I guess I can see how this would be a "threat" to these people. Just as an armed law abiding citizen is a "threat" to some innocent criminal that just wants to rob them without any trouble.

You make me sick!
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OneEyedMan

by KPC Friday, Jun. 24, 2005 at 8:49 AM
KPC

...well, the feeling is mutual...

go sieg heil somewhere else, ya ignorant goosesteppin' fuck.

...no need for insults? You mere EXISTANCE is an insult to the world.

...oh, and your ugly, too.
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Vilians & Victims

by Tim Duncan Friday, Jun. 24, 2005 at 12:19 PM
aaabbbccc@yahoo.com 123-123-1234

Labels are easy to throw around on both sides of the illegal immigration debate.

If there are any true villain's, it's the employers that exploit cheap immigrant labor and the US politicians that play along with the "broken system" by turning a blind eye to our immigration laws for political contributions and votes. The employers are simply pocketing the profits as they pass the unpaid costs of supporting the population of illegal aliens onto the US taxpayer. The true victims are the illegal aliens who are lured here by the unscrupulous business interests, the US citizens and legal foreign national residents that are displaced in the labor pool by below-market illegal alien labor, and the US taxpayers that are forced to indirectly subsidize the whole mess through the costs of providing social services to the flood of economic refugees that stream across our borders every day.

A lot of people make the point that our economy would crumble without the cheap labor afforded by illegal aliens. Subjectively, I'd much rather pay higher direct costs associated with a LEGAL labor pool through more expensive products and services where I have a CHOICE in what I buy rather than pay those costs indirectly through higher taxes, higher medical costs, overcrowded schools, etc., where I don't have a choice because the government forces me to pay my taxes towards supporting a system they refuse to enforce. Objectively, an independent study by the University of Iowa called "How much is that Tomato" (1996) concludes that "since labor is such a small component of the end-price of agricultural products (which includes price to the growers, transportation costs, processing /storage costs, grocers' profit, etc.), using minimum wage workers instead of illegal aliens would increase prices of agricultural products by approximately 3 percent in the summer and 4 percent in the winter". This would hardly be crippling if government policy were to switch to active enforcement of our laws that employers must legally employ only those who reside in the US legally. The position that our economy would falter without illegal alien labor is a myth, one continually propogated by those who will benefit most through continued illegal immigration: the business interests and those who have something to gain through the expansion of the Latino political powerbase. I'm not saying Latino political power is a bad thing ... I think it's great ... but the most ardent political supporters of illegal immigration among our elected officials don't do so because they are bleeding-heart liberals ... they do it for the self-serving purpose of extending and broadening their own personal political power. If they really, really cared about the fate of these economic refugees, they'd be doing more to provide more US help solve the problem at its roots: the terribly broken and corrupt Mexican government and economy, and the staggering stratification of economic class in Mexico between the wealthy and the poor.

The only reason our government consciously refuses to enforce our own laws is because the business lobby has our politicians completely in their pocket (so they can pocket that 3-4% as extra profit), and the politicians see the potential for self-promotion in growing a political powerbase by pandering to the Latino voting bloc.
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Exelcent point, Tim

by Render Friday, Jun. 24, 2005 at 1:23 PM

The moral low ground is held by the employers who treat their workers like crap and go home with the extra cash plus the knowledge that they hold the power over these people.
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OneEyedMan

by KPC Friday, Jun. 24, 2005 at 1:51 PM

...in some cases the workers are treated as virtual slaves...kept in confinement and not allowed to leave the premises.

I think Tim make some very lucid points from a labor viewpoint...corporations chasing cheap labor around the world at the expense of the American worker has done far more to undermine our middle class that illegal immigration...but agreed that illegal immigration is just another method of reducing the cost of labor in the US...with of course the costs (health care, etc.) being externalized to the public at large.

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Hmmm, curious

by fresca Friday, Jun. 24, 2005 at 4:08 PM

".with of course the costs (health care, etc.) being externalized to the public at large."


Imagine that!

That sounds hauntingly familiar.

Funny how you're now blowing the same horn you've been railing like an idiot against for weeks.

OF COURSE illegal immigrants are a drain on our system.

Damn the left and the right for using the problem to their advantage.
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indymedia commie liars

by Enduring Voice of Freedom Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 4:36 AM

JUST RE-POSTING MY PRIOR COMMENTS (BELOW). These indymedia people are sooooo quick to censor and remove posts they don't like. They're now thinking of instituting accounts with passwords so they can kick anyone off they don't agree with. I guess they truly are socialists at heart.

Here's the reprint:

* * * * * * * * * *

I've pretty much given up debating the activists here at LA Indymedia. It's like cheating at a game of chess - you have checkmated your opponent and then he/she unilaterally decides that the checkmated king can move 2 spaces per turn instead of 1.

A perfect example, I provided links to some sound and comprehensive studies that show illegals take more in taxpayer-provided benefits than they could ever possibly pay in taxes. Their response? All these guys do here is label (so much for being true “progressives”). The study was from a "think tank" (yes, so what’s your point), they’re associated with "Fox News" (Fox will report on their studies, but that does not mean Fox owns the think tank), you’re a “Republican” (no, actually I’m an independent and despise our current president for being so pro-corporate and open-borders), and so on and so on.

Another example: I provided “anchor baby” poncho 3 occupations hit hard by illegal immigration, throwing Americans and legal U.S. residents out of work, and he'll make up something like that they're union occupations. Most landscapers or construction workers I know are not in a union. The stats on union membership in the U.S. are around 20-25% of all jobs. You will give them fact after fact, and they will simply ignore them and continue to label you. And, of course, their favorite cut is calling you a “racist” just because you support legal immigration but oppose illegal immigration, and believe our borders need to be secured.

Yet one more example: I ‘outed’ one of the prime instigators here at Indymedia, proving this guy was a militant atheist and an extremist whom harasses people whom believe in religion, and further that this guy lives in an ultra-white gated community (yet is coming to Baldwin Park to celebrate diversity). His response? You got it, I must be a “racist.” Ironically, many of these student counter-protestors that claim to be against racism show up with signs and flags celebrating MEChE, a racist group whose motto is “Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada.” (Translation: For the [Chicano] Race, everything. For those outside the Race, nothing).



You are really wasting your time here. These radicals do not care about facts and will not honestly debate you on anything. They will label you “racist” just because you do not share their dreams of world socialism, and ignore all the anti-white racists in their our group. And they’ll spew forth, over and over, all the buzzwords and catch phrases that get the socialists all hot and bothered: “Fox News,” “racist”, “Nazis,” “Republican,” “No person is illegal” (true, not a person, but their immigration status in the U.S. is), “We didn’t cross the border; the border crossed us” (I don’t think anyone present at Indymedia was alive in the 1840’s when Mexico’s questionable claim to what is presently the Southwest U.S. ended), “Our community is not a cesspool” (no, but if you won’t walk the streets at night for fear of your safety, there certainly is something significantly wrong with that particular town), etc. You’ll give them reasoned arguments, and will got nothing back but hypocrisy, slogans, labels and catch phrases.
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OneEyedMan

by KPC Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 5:52 AM

...did someone just fart in here?


...oh, excuse me...it was just da dancing shitpile, the admitted racist, leaving its stink as usual...

...don't you have some capital letters to place in lower case somewhere, shitpile?
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I was there

by me Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 6:17 AM

Thanks for the link to the newspaper Fred. I am thinking of sending them a little note about how when I first arrived you called me a M***ER F****R not once but 3 times. And then yu said M***ER F****R do you know what the F**K you are doing here?
I know it was you because you have your picture up on your websight. I bet they would be interested in my account of your behavior.
In fact, they were very interested.

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OneEyedMan

by KPC Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 6:18 AM
KPC

....obviously the voice of mumbles has been reduced to repetitious spamming after spending the night writhing in the crushing grip of reason...

...either that or furiously masterbating to videos of "Will and Grace"...


...not that there is anything WRONG with that.....
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KPC CONTINUES THE LIES

by VOICE SPEAKS LOUDER Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 7:06 AM

<<...oh, excuse me...it was just da dancing shitpile, the admitted racist, leaving its stink as usual...>>

LYING AGAIN, KPC? I PROVED RACISM ON YOUR SIDE, KPC. THE VIDEOS OF THE TOOTHLESS ARAB MAN SHOUTING "VIVA AL ZARKAWI, THE GRINGO KILLER" AND THE GIRL SHOUTING "GO BACK TO EUROPE" (AS IF HISPANICS WERE NOT DECENDENTS OF THE SPANISH AND PORTUGUESE COLONISTS, COUNTRIES THAT ARE STILL IN EUROPE, LAST I CHECKED).

I NEVER ADMITTED ANYTHING THAT DOES NOT APPLY TO ME. I DID ADMIT PREVIOUSLY THAT THERE WERE A FEW QUESTIONABLE PEOPLE LONG SINCE BANNED FROM THE SOS FORUMS. YOUR SIDE, HOWEVER, ALLOWS RACISTS TO CONTINUE TO POST ANTI-WHITE RACIST REMARKS ALL OVER THE INDYMEDIA FORUMS.

I LIKE CAPITAL LETTERS.

I DON'T QUOTE SEINFELD OR OTHER TV SHOWS LIKE YOU DO 'CAUSE I'M NOT SUCH AN IDIOT TO NEED TO QUOTE TV SHOWS TO FRAME MY POLITICAL ARGUMENTS.
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OneEyedMan

by KPC Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 7:41 AM

...OOOOO...FEELING A BIT GUILTY, HUH? METHINKS THOU DOST PROTEST TOO STRONGLY.

MAYBE YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A SHITPILE...I WON'T ARGUE WITH THAT. BUT YOU ARE 'MUMBLES'...'DA DANCING SHITPILE' IS A DIFFERENT SHITPILE AND AN ADMITTED RACIST.

PUT DOWN THE CHEETOS, TURN OFF THE TV AND TRY TO PAY ATTENTION, MUMBLES.


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To Mr. Fresca

by Tim Duncan Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 7:53 AM
aaabbbccc@yahoo.com 123-123-1234

Mr. Fresca, actually, I've posted here and Indymedia for the past two days ... not weeks.

I really don't hope to accomplish much, but I try to speak to real issues and I refuse to stoop to using labels or slurs at people to try and defend my opinion. My opinion is either good enough to stand on its merits or its not.

I am against ILLEGAL immigration. I am all for LEGAL immigration. They problem is our current broken system that has been created and maintained by the business interests and politicians that benefit through economic gain and the broadening of their political power. They don't care if people are dying in the desert or being raped by coyotes, and they don't care that my children sit in overcrowed classrooms getting a 3rd rate education and my local hospital emergency rooms are overflowing out onto the sidewalks with the uninsured illegal aliens. They only care about their wallet getting thicker and keeping themselves in political office.

I loathe President Bush. He's an arrogant conservative 'idealist' that doesn't give a damn about what anyone else thinks, he just wants to force his vision and agenda on everyone else. I strongly dislike liberal democrats ... they want to force their vision of one-world-order socialism on everyone else and have common Joe citizens like me pay for it all.

If I could simply snap my fingers, I would: put in place a comprehensive guest worker visa program that does NOT include blanket amnesty or counting past residency towards gaining citizenship. After all, there's lots of LEGAL foreign nationals that played within the system to get residency and citizenship ... it's not justice to reward people that consciously break our laws; Force employers out of the black-market and to pay legitimate wages, payroll taxes, and benefits, regardless of whether the worker is a US citizen or foreign national ... level the playing field; Make it mandatory that any business that employs foriegn national guest workers that they MUST pay for their healthcare insurance ... don't let these guys push the cost of business of bringing foreign national labor onto the general public; Create a biometric national SSID card that MUST be verified electronically against national SSI database as a condition of employment for EVERYONE ... make it impossible to forge by making it biometric (fingerprint, iris scan, whatever) ... this eliminates SSI forgery and fraud; institute AGRESSIVE enforcement of employer sanctions for using illegal labor and make the penalties severe enough to hurt or even put them out of business ... it has to be an effective deterent; institute AGRESSIVE border enforcement sufficient to stop ALL illegal crossings ... after all, if there's a well functioning guest worker program, I assume a migrant worker would much prefer catching a bus from TJ to LA legally rather than take the risk of crossing the desert with a coyote only to find no one will hire them without a REAL biometric SSID card; use our own military to counter armed militia (the ZETA organization) at our borders ... if we're willing to send our boys to Iraq to die chasing Islamic insurgents crossing the Syrian border because our idiot President somehow thinks they are a "threat to our homeland", why can't we use our own military here to stop a trained, organized, armed foreign militia that is establishing drug and human smuggling operations all along the border, as well as on US soil? This is what I call a legitimate "threat to our homeland" that our boys in the army would surely be zeolous about. I'm not talking sending the Army after illegal aliens ... if we had a legitimate, enforcable guest worker program, all those "migrant workers" should now be crossing the border in buses with AC ... and the only guys slinking out around in the desert are the "bad guys".
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KPC OUT TO LUNCH

by Voice ++ Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 8:27 AM

Your last comments made no sense whatsoever. That’s why I’m not responding.

And I’m not holding my breath that you will ever have the balls to actually look at the CIS study that proves illegals get far more in taxpayer benefits that they pay in taxes, and then intelligently comment on it. Instead, you’ll just ignore it and all the other facts provided that do not support your views, and prove your immaturity by calling everyone you disagree with a “racist” like you just did on this thread. Smoking a bit too much pot, KPC?
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OneEyedMan

by KPC Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 8:58 AM

....geez, you're easily confused, aren't you mumbles?

...and you wonder why you live in a shithole with success continuously beyond your reach?

...don't worry, as long as there are bottles and cans to recycle, you'll have a job that you don't have to worry about illegal immigrants stealing.
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OneEyedMan

by KPC Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 9:15 AM

Look, mumbles, I realize I may have been moving too quick for your feeble mind to comprehend, so let me dumb it down for you...

YOU are 'mumbles'

I called 'da dancing shitpile' (AKA fRESCA) a racist because it is and has admitted to being one.

You, for some reason known only to your priest or shrink, got defensive and thought I was addressing you...interesting....

...c'mon, mumbles...try to keep up, will ya....

...the only thing the CIS study 'proves' is that you will believe any lie you are told and be stupid enough to swear to it...

...whadda fuckin' tool you are, mumbles...and too much of an idiot to realize it.

...now, don't you and "your side" have some beer drinking desert circle jerk to attend somewhere...or some rally at a Virgin of Guadalupe shrine in San Clemente?

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FBI will be at Baldwin Park again

by The Big Boss Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 9:28 AM

Just wanted to say at the Baldwin Park protest #1 there were observers from 16 entities in the county, state and federal law enforcement watching both sides.

I understand a big effort is afoot this time to carefully videotape and photograph all the counter protesters.

They already know who all the SOS people are and the authorities have deemed them to "not be an active threat to the security of the USA".

But the counterprotesters, after BP1, got a lot of attention at the highest levels of government. A large effort is underway to identify every single counterprotester and to see if they are a threat to national security.

Good luck to all at the Protest this weekend in BP.
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OneEyedMan

by KPC Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 9:48 AM

...the FBI wasting their time and the taxpayers money on non-existent threats to national security?


...whoever HEARD of such a thing?
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You are the confused one, KPC

by Always the Voice Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 9:48 AM

<>

Sorry, nope, not me. You're confusing different posters. Every post I've done here at Indymedia has been some derivative of "Voice"

<>

I don't know Fresca, so maybe you're right about him/her. I couldn't tell you.

<>

No, I got defensive when you implied I was gay. I'm not, and unlike you, I don't have to ass the bullsh*t PC disclaimed "...but there's nothing wrong with that."

<<...the only thing the CIS study 'proves' is that you will believe any lie you are told and be stupid enough to swear to it... >>

You appear (I'm not saying you are, just that you appear) to be too stupid to offer any reasonable counter-argument to the CIS study. Instead, you try to cloud the issue, or label CIS or me or Fox News, and then ignore it. You've called it a lie, well exactly which of the study's data are flawed, and which conclusions are most reasonable with the data that remains. Oh, sorry, that would require you to be mature and quit acting like such a high schooler (which you probably are).

The rest of your insults prove your gross immaturity. So let me spell it out for you pea brain. This conversation is not for your benefit. Or mine. Its for all the students whom get one of those flyers and then come to Indymedia to read up more on what this protest is about. And they'll quickly get turned off by the so-called progressives here being like you: hypocritical, immature and frankly quite deceitful.

So just keep on insulting and blabbing. That's what I want. And that's why I just don't go away. Have another bong hit, loser.
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OneEyedMan

by KPC Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 10:04 AM
KPC

....What's this, the "I know you are but what am I?" school of debate, mumbles?

I am not confusing different posters; you ARE mumbles...you like to think of yourself and the "voice", but nothing comes thru you muddled brain but a mumble...hence the new moniker...

...you just CAN't be that stupid...can you?..well, maybe I am misunderestimating you...

And the quote is "Not that there is anything WRONG with it". It was a line from "Sienfeld"...a joke about trying to maintain politcal correctness during discussions about homosexuals, pitched in the strike zone by me but obviously still miles above your pin head.

...as you so handily demonstrate, 'republican sense of humor' is an oxymoron.

Now, instead of crying like a bitch about insults while tossing lame ones around, why don't you just get better at it?

now, by all means, stick around...I like shooting fish in a barrel...good fun!
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Whatever

by Echos of the Voice Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 10:20 AM

Well, KPC, if the hypocrites that run these Indymedia forums weren't so quick to yank down posts they don't like, I would go and check out this "mumbles" poster. Sorry, again, not me. If your that dense, let me spell it out for you again. Almost no one else on this forum has such a dry, factual tone to their writing style as I do. Not necessarily a good thing, but usually people are able to distinguish me quickly from the others as I seem less able to engage in the more casual banter that most others do.

I'm the one that brought up the public opinion polls, the CIS studies, and told you that P's Taco Fest idea sounded really stupid. Remembering now?
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KPC Rambles On and On

by Echos of the Voice Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 10:23 AM

and yes, I got the seinfeld thing and its commentary on PC the first time you brought up seinfeld. I still think it's rather stupid of you to quote television shows on your political debates.
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Don't Bogart the Doobage, KFC

by Echos of the Voice Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 10:28 AM

<<...as you so handily demonstrate, 'republican sense of humor' is an oxymoron. >>

You can't remember sh*t. Or are we all the same in your head, all the SOS posters. I'm an INDEPENDENT (yes, more of those capital letters) whom is probably as angry as Bush as you are, but for different reasons.

Now, you were going to check into that CIS study and quit being such an idiot, right?
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OneEyedMan

by KPC Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 10:42 AM

...geez, you really ARE that dumb, huh mumbles?

It was a joke, mumbles, not a debate point. Where do you get your jokes from, Hal Netkin? And 'mumbles' is the moniker I have given you to keep track of your idiocy, since you don't have balls enough to post under one handle (afraid of the big bad 'ignore list"?...ya fuckin' pussy!).

Try to stay with the group there, Mr. Shortbus...

...and as far as you being republican...all I have to say is that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...well...(your denial and distaste for da shrub not withstanding)


...tell me, why are you trying to deny you got defensive when you thought I called you a racist.

"....no no...it wasn't THAT heaven forbid...it was the gay thing..."

...interesting....very VERY interesting

...the CIS study? Already checked it...not worth commenting on...but your glaring idiocy is always good for a hoot!

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Where KPC Gets His Views of the World From

by Can't stop the Voice, you loser Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 12:27 PM

Where KPC Gets His V...
seinfeld41.jpg, image/jpeg, 289x183

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KPC's motto

by Can\\\'t stop the Voice, you loser Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 12:30 PM

KPC's motto...
denial.gifxfekiw.gif, image/png, 98x163

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KPC looking in the mirror

by Can\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t stop the Voice, you lose Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 12:33 PM

KPC looking in the m...
oneeyedcvr.jpg, image/jpeg, 150x190

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More of KPC's Poltiical Inspirations

by Can\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 12:36 PM

More of KPC's Poltii...
homer47.gif, image/png, 163x306

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Even more curious

by The Mórrígan Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 1:42 PM

>>>I provided links to some sound and comprehensive studies that show illegals take more in taxpayer-provided benefits than they could ever possibly pay in taxes.

posted by Enduring Voice of Freedom

******

The Center for Immigration Studies was founded and continues to be funded by John Tanton, who also founded the Federation for American Immigration Reform, began the English-only movement, and is publisher of the Social Contract Press. If you're old enough, you'll remember him as the initiator of the Zero Population Movement, which quickly revealed its racist underpinnings (and he continues with his railing against non-European birthrates today). So, considering this source, I have no respect for its findings or anyone who uses them.

If anyone here wants to read the entire anti-immigrant agenda, check out Tanton's WITAN memo at http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=125
Surprising how current it is--and a roadmap to what's coming down the pike.
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Thanks Freddy

by ME Saturday, Jun. 25, 2005 at 3:39 PM

Thanks for the link to the newspaper Fred. I am thinking of sending them a little note about how when I first arrived you called me a M***ER F****R not once but 3 times. And then you said M***ER F****R do you know what the F**K you are doing here?
I know it was you because you have yor picture up on your websight. I bet they would be interested in my account of your behavior. Such big words and a big bullhorn for such a small man.

As a matter fact, they were very interested. I even sent them a link to your web site. Keep up the good work.
You are making yourself look like the self hating anti Amrican lost soul that you are. Thanks again.
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Baldwin Park

by Fed Up Thursday, Jun. 30, 2005 at 10:09 AM

In a time of having to tighten our finacial belts the city of Baldwin Park raised their salaries under a dubious agenda of commitee fees.... Jokers.....
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