At first the anti-racists counter protesters surrounded SOS-MM and overwhelmed them 10 to 1. After about an hour the police separated the SOS-MM from the counters and kept SOS-MM behind police lines on one corner of the street. By 1:00 pm it was over and the SOS-MM had all been escorted way by the police. The crowd cheered as the last of the SOS-MM left the site.

A post action wrap up was upbeat and there was a sense of victory that the community had taken a stand against the anti-immigrants and racism. There were no reports of violence or arrests.

I speak only for myself, but as I support SOS/MM, consider my goasl to be at least partly theirs.

I define an “illegal immigrant” as a person who entered the Unites States illegally (without permission) whether 20 minutes or 20 years ago. An “undocumented” alien is a visitor who entered legally, but then stayed past his “due date” to leave, thus becoming illegal.

California Plan (in no particular order)

Throw the judge who declared Prop 187 unconstitutional out on his ass. Immediately enact 187 as LAW.

Eliminate state tuitions of any kind for illegals.

Form California Border Police including their own version of a SWAT team.

Inflict severe fines on any business caught hiring illegal aliens. Inflict severe fines, including a minimum of two years in prison, for any individual(s) aiding and abetting illegals or helping them escape capture (hi Fred!)

Hire bounty hunters to capture illegals.

Cease all aid to Mexico (at the federal level) until all illegal alien fugitives who committed felonies in the Unites States are returned for trial.

Close the border. Begin deportation. If Mexico takes aggressive action, place land mines along the border as well as the State Guard.

Create a State database of illegal aliens, including facial recognition “prints.”

America deserves a secure future, if it fights for it.

OneEyedMan asks: Should there be a difference, in your mind, in how the law treats an illegal immigrant as opposed to an undocumented immigrant? Please explain your answer.

Let me answer that by asking you this: if a thief steals jewelry from a neighbor's house, does it matter if he broke in or was invited over earlier? Either way, a crime has been committed and the guilty must pay.

Do you feel that undocumented immigrants should be penalized for their undocumented status after it is cleared up?

Depends on the situation. If a foreign owner of an expired visa is late by one day and makes a concerted effort to report it, s/he should certainly be penalized less than someone who came here on a visa to live illegally until caught.

Do you feel that people who were brought to this country by no choice of their own when they were infants, and have known no other country but this one, should be treated the same as people who came here "20 minutes ago"?

An excellent question. I'm not ashamed to say I don't have a specific solution for this challenge. If we continue on the disastrous course we have set now, illegals will continue to use their children as anchors. Also, I don't know the specific demographics e.g. how many children of illegals are here and of college age, etc. Once the major immigration problems are solved, we could probably work out something whereby Americans sponsor some of these kids who get good grades and have grown up obeying the laws.

Although you have made quite a few impractical ("throw judges out", "close the border") and outright ludicrous (SWAT team and bounty hunters) proposals, you still have not stated your goal or method of measuring success. Please clearly state the goal you agree with and the metrics that should be used in measuring success.

The judge or judges responsible for denying the will of the people via Prop 187 are petty tyrants and SHOULD be thrown out/forced to resign, whatever it takes. These activist judges, which go all the way to the Supreme Court have caused a lot of damage, both to common sense and respect for the law. We Americans DO have a right to redress of greivances, and the sacred right to remove from power a government we find doesn't suit our needs or live to our ideals.

I think if we reduced the number of illegals living in the USA from 10 or 11 million to around 1.5 to 2 million tops at any given time, it would mean we have the problem under "some" control. Continual punishment for businesses that hire illegals and the enforced prevention of illegals receiving any city, state or federal aid would also probably create enough disincentive for 90% of illegals to want to come here, and for Mexico to cease encouraging they try.

Using bounty hunters isn't really that radical, since in the beginning of the phaseout, most people already know where the illegals hide and work. A Bordr Patrol SWAt team idea is realistic...in fact, it probably won't be enough. Remember, the drug cartels are behind a lot of human smuggling; they have the best weaponry and lots of "soldiers" with nothing to lose. Hell, there's a good chance the entire Mexican Army is on the dole of a few of Mexico's mightiest drug lords as well.

Also, your statement regarding returning illegal alien criminals to the US is perplexing because 1) I thought you wanted them OUT and have complained about their burden on American taxpayers; and 2) The US and Mexico have an extradition treaty. The only case where Mexico will not extradite is in cases where the death penalty may be applied. Seems to me that there is plenty of room to bargain there, and so no real obstacle as you imply.

Executing scum who have killed police, be they Mexican or American, is money well spent. An illegal who commits especially heinous crimes should be removed fro the gene pool as quickly as possible. The present Mexico/US treaty is useless for the very reasons you describe. Not only is Mexico foolishly against the death penalty, they also consider life in prison as "too harsh." How must the average Mexican view the worth of himself, his loved ones and his government if cop killers and child rapists are constantly unleashed again and again? One more example of liberalism's insanity. But on this one, the problem is with America's continual toleration of Mexico's flaunting this insanity in our faces. Down with Vicente Bush!

Also, it would be unconstitutional to form a "California" Border Police, as it is the Federal Government that is mandated by the constitution to control immigration and borders. Are you proposing a constitutional amendment to move this responsibility to each state?

I'm not sure how it could be done on paper, but a State Border Police for California is badly needed, certainly more so here than in Alaska or Ohio! As the feds have failed to uphold the Constitution and protect the border, maybe it's time a few states took back some of their power...

The feds have long history of abusing their power. During Reagan's era, it was technically each state's "choice" whether or not to raise the drinking age to 21...except the feds, in violation of the law, threatened to withold federal highway funds of any state who did not up the drinking age. This gross abuse of power "for the public good" infuriates those of us who know what absolute power does to any person or government.

I don't expect to be agreed with on every point, especially by similar- minded Minutemen and SOS, but I do hope this post has demonstrated that, despite the howlings of a few, those in favor of curtailing illegal immigration are not nazis or White Supremacists. Yes, those two groups and others have tried to latch on to the SOS/Minuteman movement, but I think both SOS and MM have done a good job distancing themselves from these hurtful clowns. I certainly don't think all liberals are anarcho-communists.

Thanks for the offer of a reasoned argument.

JG Author: Jose Gutierrez Link: Posted: Tuesday June 21, 2005 07:03 AM [ignore Jose Gutierrez] [read more Jose Gutierrez] Before I begin to answer your questions, I need to add one more to 'my' platform: no longer would babies born in the USA to foreign parents be considered Americans. I can't believe this idiocy even exists. If an American couple has their baby in France, the kid is not French. This bizarre warped policy, which no other country has, causes the 'anchor baby' problem of illegals sneaking over here to have their offspring.

OneEyedMan asks: Should there be a difference, in your mind, in how the law treats an illegal immigrant as opposed to an undocumented immigrant? Please explain your answer.

Let me answer that by asking you this: if a thief steals jewelry from a neighbor's house, does it matter if he broke in or was invited over earlier? Either way, a crime has been committed and the guilty must pay.

Do you feel that undocumented immigrants should be penalized for their undocumented status after it is cleared up?

Depends on the situation. If a foreign owner of an expired visa is late by one day and makes a concerted effort to report it, s/he should certainly be penalized less than someone who came here on a visa to live illegally until caught.

Do you feel that people who were brought to this country by no choice of their own when they were infants, and have known no other country but this one, should be treated the same as people who came here "20 minutes ago"?

An excellent question. I'm not ashamed to say I don't have a specific solution for this challenge. If we continue on the disastrous course we have set now, illegals will continue to use their children as anchors. Also, I don't know the specific demographics e.g. how many children of illegals are here and of college age, etc. Once the major immigration problems are solved, we could probably work out something whereby Americans sponsor some of these kids who get good grades and have grown up obeying the laws.

Although you have made quite a few impractical ("throw judges out", "close the border") and outright ludicrous (SWAT team and bounty hunters) proposals, you still have not stated your goal or method of measuring success. Please clearly state the goal you agree with and the metrics that should be used in measuring success.

The judge or judges responsible for denying the will of the people via Prop 187 are petty tyrants and SHOULD be thrown out/forced to resign, whatever it takes. These activist judges, which go all the way to the Supreme Court have caused a lot of damage, both to common sense and respect for the law. We Americans DO have a right to redress of greivances, and the sacred right to remove from power a government we find doesn't suit our needs or live to our ideals.

I think if we reduced the number of illegals living in the USA from 10 or 11 million to around 1.5 to 2 million tops at any given time, it would mean we have the problem under "some" control. Continual punishment for businesses that hire illegals and the enforced prevention of illegals receiving any city, state or federal aid would also probably create enough disincentive for 90% of illegals to want to come here, and for Mexico to cease encouraging they try for America.

Using bounty hunters isn't really that radical, since in the beginning of the phaseout, most people already know where the illegals hide and work. A Bordr Patrol SWAt team idea is realistic...in fact, it probably won't be enough. Remember, the drug cartels are behind a lot of human smuggling; they have the best weaponry and lots of "soldiers" with nothing to lose. Hell, there's a good chance the entire Mexican Army is on the dole of a few of Mexico's mightiest drug lords as well.

Also, your statement regarding returning illegal alien criminals to the US is perplexing because 1) I thought you wanted them OUT and have complained about their burden on American taxpayers; and 2) The US and Mexico have an extradition treaty. The only case where Mexico will not extradite is in cases where the death penalty may be applied. Seems to me that there is plenty of room to bargain there, and so no real obstacle as you imply.

Executing scum who have killed police, be they Mexican or American, is money well spent. An illegal who commits especially heinous crimes should be removed fro the gene pool as quickly as possible. The present Mexico/US treaty is useless for the very reasons you describe. Not only is Mexico foolishly against the death penalty, they also consider life in prison as "too harsh." How must the average Mexican view the worth of himself, his loved ones and his government if cop killers and child rapists are constantly unleashed again and again? One more example of liberalism's insanity. But on this one, the problem is with America's continual toleration of Mexico's flaunting this insanity in our faces. Down with Vicente Bush!

Also, it would be unconstitutional to form a "California" Border Police, as it is the Federal Government that is mandated by the constitution to control immigration and borders. Are you proposing a constitutional amendment to move this responsibility to each state?

I'm not sure how it could be done on paper, but a State Border Police for California is badly needed, certainly more so here than in Alaska or Ohio! As the feds have failed to uphold the Constitution and protect the border, maybe it's time a few states took back some of their power...

The feds have long history of abusing their power. During Reagan's era, it was technically each state's "choice" whether or not to raise the drinking age to 21...except the feds, in violation of the law, threatened to withold federal highway funds of any state who did not up the drinking age. This gross abuse of power "for the public good" infuriates those of us who know what absolute power does to any person or government.

I don't expect to be agreed with on every point, especially by similar- minded Minutemen and SOS, but I do hope this post has demonstrated that, despite the howlings of a few, those in favor of curtailing illegal immigration are not nazis or White Supremacists. Yes, those two groups and others have tried to latch on to the SOS/Minuteman movement, but I think both SOS and MM have done a good job distancing themselves from these hurtful clowns. I certainly don't think all liberals are anarcho-communists.

Thanks for the offer of a reasoned argument.

JG