http://www.sgvtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,205~12220~2925367,00.html

This has already got the bad guys howeling again, once again trying to claim that following the rules of polite society is "unconstitutional."

I get the impression that anything that safeguards and protests the health and safety of real Americans is considered "unamerican" or "seditious" or "unconstitutional" to these sick scumbags.

My opinions all, of course. Your opinions may differ.

Oh: In addition to the hundreds of terrorist death threats "Save Our State" a.k.a. "Minutemen" members, supporters, defenders, followers et al. issued against the City's office people, we also find that one of the good guys was assaulted with his own video camera according to the City, briefly mentioned in this report, by one of the SOSMM scumbags.

Again, my opinions all.

http://www.sgvtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,205~12220~2925367,00.html

That was something I also had to laugh a bit about. Brought a smile to my white race traitor face. }:-}

I've been waiting to see if the SOSMM individuals start paying non-whites to join them on the sidewalk to try to bolster the outrageous notion that there are a few non-whites who support and defend SOSMM's obvious agenda. It would be amusing to walk down their line, actually find a non-white skin hue this time, and see if he or she knows what he or she is supposed to be doing standing there.

Each of the many and diverse anti-hate groups that will be protesting against racism will also without a doubt be comprised of less than 35 individuals so the new rule is probably moot in any event -- unless the KKK, National Alliance/Vanguard, or American Nazi Party decide to join SOSMMin large numbers, which I doubt they will. They apparently only mustered 10 or so in Alhambra so that seems unlikely they'll manage to get more KKK/ANP/et al. in Baldwin Park.

The City of BP will need to change their new rule to make it 10 or more demonstrators if they want to effectively ensure that the violent hate mongers get the written rules of proper conduct in a polite, Constitutional society.

And honestly I don't see what the SOSMM's complaint is. The ALCU has routinely fought for the KKK's right to gather and demonstrate.

I look on this new rule as a method of being able to show a Judge documented evidence that the white supremists have been lawfully served with instructions on how they must behave so that when they're dragged before a Judge, they can't cry about how they didn't know driving vans over people was naughty.

My opinions all, of course, and only my opinions, but complaining about rules to ensure civil behavior seems kind of telling.

or do we have a permit?

black eye? An arrest? Photos?

Fred, Fred, Fred, get your facts straight, first of all, there where non-whites in BP. I should know, I was
one of them and I was there standing Peacefully with the SOS group.
And I will stand side by side with them again.

NO!!!!!! People MUST oppose the racism....

Most laws take 30 days to go into effect. I am not sure about this one. Call ANSWER and ask them what to do. They are the masters at this stuff. My guess is (and this is JUST a guess) that ANSWER will get the permits in place if they are necessary.

I remember a certain fool at Venice beach, an "animal rights" activist who called himself Bubbles or Squeaks or some other stupid name.

Bubbles had the audacity to call animals being killed for food, "victims of a holocaust." Talk about hype!

It's that level of fanaticism and delusion that this Rice character draws around him like a mottled cloak of sour rainbows.

Rice and others of his ilk can huff and polish their Good Guy badges all day, just like Emperor Napoleon can adjust his hat all day in the asylum.

Frankly, I don't have to heart to tell thes marxist hippie dinosaurs the 60s are long over.

Stopping SOS? Won't the just get a permit?

How about I drop you into a tub of boiling water...

Thanks, but I doubt you own a Jacuzzi. You got me all wrong. I love animals...they're DELICIOUS! I've got a baby seal in the oven right now.

Tomorrow's leftovers will include club sandwiches.

Your right, the peace loving 60's are over, and there is a new movement alive today. Many learned that if you wear a peace sign and do sing alongs, you end up like Theresa, attacked for standing up. So now, people wear a mask, and they don't "ask" for a stop to the violence, they "demand" it.

Ah, yes, the peace-loving 60s. Charles Manson. Race riots, "Revolutionaries" who wanted to kill anyone over age 30. There's no "peace and love" movement that doesn't end in bloodshed.

In the 60s people only worked from within the country, today they are a global movement. In the 60s it was about stopping a war, today it is about stopping the war, and oppression waged by multi-national corporations, it is about restoring the autonomy of the people in other nations, it is about tearing down borders, opening up freedoms, and opposing all forms of fascism. Yester-years are gone, and with it, the hippies. Today you have bigger responses, more militant actions, and better results. We aren't pot-smoking hippies; we are activists who are determined to make our world a reality.

But your world IS a reality! Don't you see the beautiful outcomes of your communistic fantasy? 60 million Russians murdered by Stalin? 75 million Chinese murdered by Chairman Mao? Cambodian and Vietnamese genocide? North Korean happiness? All stemming from your "peace and love."

And now, it's truly wonderful that you're working hard to prevent the poorest countries from ever prospering by "protecting" them from wicked free market globalization!

And for the record, this movement wasn't "born" in the sixties. The Boston Tea Party, the anti-slavery movement, the movement to give woman the right to vote, were all WAY before the 60s. Unfortunately, you have no clue about the people's history

I tend to tune out when I hear "the people" used as if it means something. You're confusing your neo-marxist heritage with the true revolutionaries of American history that sought to expand freedom and liberty, not send secret police around at midnight to round up those who'd commmitted fictitious "crimes against the people."

NO MOVEMENT PROMOTING "PEACE AND LOVE" ENDS WITH ANYTHING OTHER THAN BLOODSHED.

> So is the Counter Protest Cancelled?
> or do we have a permit?

The rule is that any group with 35 or more people need to acquire a permit. During the first anti-hate rally, I don't think there were any groups with that number, not even the traditional dancers. We comprise several dozen different groups of under 35 people with various diverse opinions and progressive agenda, none apparently exceeding 35.

So no permit required for most of us. And the white supremists won't number in 35 or higher, either, I suspect, so they won't be required to acquire a permit either.

What we need -- what the City of Baldwin Park needs -- is to hand out written rules of conduct to these white supremist assholes to make sure they're well aware that they can't just run the good guys down with their van and expect some white cop to check their skin hue and release them without charges, as was done in Garden Grove. With the City making sure the racists have been notified about the conduct of civilized society they're expected to abide by, that should be enough tp keep the shitheaps from assaulting us again.

My opinions.

what is the point?

This resolution hurts both sides in this conflict. Regardless of your politics. No one should support this resolution. The City should repeal the resolution immediately to avoid legal action.

Whatever resolution they make, no local law can supercede the right to free speech and the right to peaceable assembly as stated in the 1st amendment of the Bill of Rights. To require a person or a group to get a permit to exercise their constitutional rights is unlawful. The City of BP has made a big mistake. Given the examples of selective enforcement we have seen by the GGPD, this is resolution is a bad sign for the free speech rights of both the SOS/MM and those who oppose them as well as all the people of BP.
As the saying goes:
“I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”

For reference:

US Bill of Rights, Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Fred is a nut. How exactly do you equate a Mexican American with a "White Supremacist"? The SoS group is pretty diverse in terms of racial makeup. I think the ethnic elements in SoS will find your usage of the term "White Supremacist" rather entertaining.

But your world IS a reality! Don't you see the beautiful outcomes of your communistic fantasy? 60 million Russians murdered by Stalin? 75 million Chinese murdered by Chairman Mao? Cambodian and Vietnamese genocide? North Korean happiness? All stemming from your "peace and love."

--------------------------------------------------
See, we don't even need to make you look stupid, you do it to yourself. Power corrupts, and because of that, everyone that has started down the road to communism has never arrived. You have only read the old propaganda from the cold war, and have NO clue what communism even is. I am not even a communist, and I can tell you are preaching BS like it is the truth. Why don't you go out and pick up Marx's Communist Manifesto and read it. If you are anti-communist, you should at the very least know what you are against. I know, if you read it, there is a small chance you may become it (which is the reason that the propaganda was always talking about it like it was the devils bible), but at least know your subject matter. BTW, a communist world is one where the government is done away with, yeah, government is not necessary and abolished. See, you will read that and scratch your head, “What the hell is he talking about”. No clue about it at all…..

--------------------------------------------------
See, we don't even need to make you look stupid...

===Your callow opinions are for my amusement only.

Power corrupts, and because of that, everyone that has started down the road to communism has never arrived.

===So why not quit while you're ahead and confess it's an unworkable system which ends up with a small ruling class deciding who lives and who dies. BTW, in America, you're free to start our own commune...I wonder why very very very very few people have done so?

You have only read the old propaganda from the cold war, and have NO clue what communism even is. I am not even a communist, and I can tell you are preaching BS like it is the truth. Why don't you go out and pick up Marx's Communist Manifesto and read it.

===I've seen the effects off communism, read about it, and there are thousands, if not millions of survivors of these murderous communist regimes who attest to the horrors inflicted on simple people who hurt no one. The "Well, that wasn't REAL communism" argument is the last desperate gasp of a hopefully dying idealogy.

If you are anti-communist, you should at the very least know what you are against. I know, if you read it, there is a small chance you may become it (which is the reason that the propaganda was always talking about it like it was the devils bible), but at least know your subject matter.

===Communism has never worked, and never will. In North Korea, people are starving. Cuba is a nationwide slum people risk death to escape. The Soviet Union is a black cinder on the ash heap of history, having been decayed and destroyed from the inside.

BTW, a communist world is one where the government is done away with, yeah, government is not necessary and abolished. See, you will read that and scratch your head, “What the hell is he talking about”. No clue about it at all…..

===There's "no government" right up until the next tyrant and his band of thugs pick up automatic rifles. Then your ass is slaving in the rice fields until you die of starvation. Long ago I was an anarchist...it's a wonderful THEORY but it just can't work in the real world. The sooner you learn this, the better off you'll be.

===I hope to hell you're under age 25...if you believe this communist claptrap up to then, you're simply naive.

===After 25, you're hopeless.

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan/museum/musframe.htm

Please be sure to stop by the Museum of Communism.

I've already bought you a ticket. Just click the link.

This is a resolution, and not a law. It can be challenged in the long run. In the short term, who knows what will happen. Nobody can know. This is something that's very ad-hoc, and the City Council has their idea of what they think will work to get what they want (which is no more press about the city, and no more protests). Their solution comes from what they have at hand -- and that's cops.

Different counter-protesters have their ideas and goals. SOS/Minütemenso have their ideas.

Nothing is ever fixed, and conditions and alliances can change.

More important the BP next week, though, is Alhambra today. Get out to Alhambra and confront these people who pick on those least able to defend themselves.

>Race riots, "Revolutionaries" who wanted to kill anyone over age 30.

Actually, the line was to never trust anyone over 30. It wasn't about killing people over 30.

What it was a reference to was the old school leftists who were more moderate than the New Left activists. The young baby boomers had some issues with the old guard.

Likewise, the young kids today probably have disagreements with the older activists. Shoot. The older activists probably disagree with the even older activists. Times change, and so do politics.

Kids today don't remember the somewhat liberal Norman Lear 70s, with all the "ecology" stuff going on. All they know are conservative Democrats, radical Republicans, and a rapid drive toward a two-class society. No wonder they want to break things!

They change for better or worse --- and that's why SOS are being opposed: a lot of people see the group as a negative trend.

Get out to Alhambra and confront these people who pick on those least able to defend themselves.

Yeah, the AMERICAN TAXPAYERS!

Majority against Bush plan for workers, 81% think local police should help feds

A new opinion poll by Zogby International indicates Americans are hardly pleased with the Bush administration on the subject of illegal immigration.

The poll, cited on CNN's "Lou Dobbs Tonight" program yesterday, noted a huge majority – 81 percent – believes local and state police should help federal authorities enforce laws against illegal immigration. Only 14 percent disagreed.


Voters were also asked, "Do you support or oppose the Bush administration's proposal to give millions of illegal aliens guest worker status and the opportunity to become citizens?" Only 35 percent gave their support, and 56 percent said no.

"A majority opposed illegal immigration," pollster John Zogby told CNN. "In fact, when you combine those two terms, 'illegal and immigration,' it really conjures up a considerable amount of negatives. And, in fact, we find that it's really across the board."

According to the report, the greatest opponents of illegal immigration are Democrats, African-Americans, women and people with household income below $75,000, those with the most to lose in the job market.

When it came to the status of the nation's borders, respondents were asked, "Do you agree or disagree that the federal government should deploy troops on the Mexican border as a temporary measure to control illegal immigration?" A clear majority – 53 percent – agree, while 40 percent disagree.

"The Minuteman program highlighted the fact that we need more tighter border security," Phil Kent of American Immigration Control Foundation told the network. "So I think these numbers again are good. It's a good civics lesson for the American people. It shows our elected leaders that we want action."

In summing up her report, CNN correspondent Lisa Sylvester noted, "So, while the public wants tougher borders, politicians are pushing to leave them open. A real disconnect."

Dobbs responded to that statement, saying: "The disconnect that you referred to, Lisa, between our elected officials and the people of this country is in no – on no other issue any more dramatic than on the issue of illegal immigration. The Zogby poll is just simply the most recent in a string of polls that show that the American people want their borders secure, they want immigration laws to be enforced, and to clean up what has become an atrocious mess on the part of our elected representatives serving better the interests of U.S. multinationals than the people who are working for a living in this country."

Within a week of the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks on the U.S., Zogby polled Americans on border security and immigration issues.

When asked whether the government was doing enough to control the border and screen those allowed into the country, 76 percent said the government was not doing enough.

Regarding future threats to the U.S., 72 percent of likely voters in 2001 said a dramatic increase in resources devoted to border control and enforcement of immigration laws would help reduce the chances of a terrorist attack in the future.

>BTW, in America, you're free to start our own commune...I wonder why very very very very few people have done so?

A condominium is a kind of housing commune. It's not communist, because there's a profit-taking land developer involved, but, the bulk of money moved around is used to maintain the commons.

When laws are adapted to allow people to create TICs and co-ops, they do that too. Those are more communistic.

There are also a lot of co-ops, which aren't communist per-se, but are a kind of collective ownership. These are the closest to "communist" because they're involved in production, and have a kind of democratic decision-making process. Sunkist is a co-op.

If you total the value of condos, tics, and coops, there's a lot of money involved. Probably hundreds of billions of dollars. People see a lot of value in working together, and figuring out ways to spread out ownership.

BTW...

Fred>And honestly I don't see what the SOSMM's complaint is. The ALCU has routinely fought for the KKK's right to gather and demonstrate.

True - they defended the KKK in Skokie.

They may defend the SOS in Baldwin Park.

What a coincidence.

And that's one reason why they make less money.

A realistic effort to decrease undocumented immigration is to craft a policy that is workable, and includes provisions for laborers to immigrate. The current system isn't workable.

Also, the Zogby poll went that way because of the terminology. The terms "illegal alien" and "illegal immigrant" are biased against the people. The legal terms are more like "undocumented immigrant", "immigrant", "nonresident alien", and "resident alien". That's what the use in the immigration laws.

Do any of you SOS lovers even know the immigration laws? Or do you all start off by reading opinions, then the facts, then, last, the actual law?

> The resolution is unconstitutional
> This resolution hurts both sides in this conflict.
> Regardless of your politics. No one should support
> this resolution.

I don't agree since nobody is denying anyone their right to assemble and demonstrate. While it doesn't apply to any of our diverse groups and while it doesn't apply to the white supremists and other racists (not unless they accumulate 35 bigots or more) it would still be a good idea if everyone were to be requested to read the City's rules of proper conduct.

If the City attempted to deny people's rights to assemble, then we would have a violation of people's rights. But I don't see that happening here.

Also I get the impression that the City are with the people they represent: they find these racist muthers just as disgustingly ugly as the citizens of Baldwin Park do. They're only trying to make sure these scumbags behave themselves.

It is in our constitution, for our federal goernment to protect our borders from invasion.

We are being invaded, by illegal Mexican aliens.

Fred Rice, is against all Americans.

Fred Rice, knows it is against American law to cross into the USA without proper documentation.

Fred Rice does not respect America or our laws.

Fred Rice is Anti-American. He hates Americans.

That is why Fred Rice loves illegal Mexican aliens, because it represents his own contempt and hate for America and all American citizens.

Fred Rice, though, fully accepts and enjoys the bounty that America provides for him.

At the last Baldwin Protest, Fred Rices' amigos, kept chanting "We did not cross the border, the border crossed us." These people believe this is their land.
This is Anti-American speak and Americans are sick of it.

This is exactly what the Baldwin Park monument represents. Fred Rice knows this.

Fred Rice hates Americans so much, he is willing to see people injured and maybe killed. Fred Rice is willing to chance this, just for his own self hatred of America.

True Americans, which Fred Rice is not, stand for equality.

WE ALL MUST OBEY THE RULE OF LAW.

Fred Rice, does not stand for equality. Fred Rice feels he should be allowed to break our laws, and not have to answer for it.

IF YOU SUPPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, YOU ARE A CRIMINAL. It is called aiding and abetting.

Fred Rice, if you have any character, what so ever, answer this post on this site, for everyone to see.

Tell Americans how much you hate us, and do not respect our immigration laws.

Do you or do you not respect our immigration laws?

We really do not need an answer. The people you support (illegal Mexican criminal invaders) tell it all.

Differences:

1) Each member in a condo has their own provate property that can't be confiscated without applying the Rule of Law.

2) People live there of their own free will.

3) Condo Associations are subject todirect or representative votes and input from all owners

4) There is a legel process for those who violate the condo's contracts that doesn't include starving the tenant or shooting him out back.

5) I was surprised you didn't find info on the few real communes in America. I believe there are several, and some woman even wrote a book about her years spent in one of them. Maybe one of your readers knows about it.

One more thing.....Fred Rice = Attention Whore

He doesn't believe in his lies (that would be a full time job) except when they garner much (undeserved) attention.

LIke all psychic vampires, ignore him and he'll go away.

Even the Taco Bell Chihuahua is on our side!

I am almost sorry that the SOS/Minutemen can't come up with the necessary funds to obtain a permit from BP.

I was looking forward to this event.

I hope that the counter-demonstrators get a permit and have the festival they had planned - but as a victory celebration.

Undocumented is just another politically correct label, you want to give these illegal Mexican aliens.

You think giving them titles like "newcomers", "undocumented" or "new arrivals" is going to hide the fact of what they are.

They are millions of foreign people, mostly from Mexico, who have nothing, but contempt for America and Americans.

Illegal immigrants, are called illegal, because they come here illegally, they are breaking our laws.

They are criminals.

THE ONLY THING BROKEN ABOUT OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM, IS THE FACT, WE ARE NOT ENFORCING OUR LAWS.

We gave illegal Mexicans amnesty once, in 1986, and now that is the reason these criminals keep pouring into our country.

No chance. THERE WILL NOT BE ANYMORE AMNESTIES.

All illegal immigrants are going to leave.

In what corrupted mind, do you think we want people here, who cannot even obey OUR RULE OF LAW.

What makes you think, we want citizens, who do not even know the difference, between right and wrong.

We should use our military to keep the shitskins out of our country. White Power!

The coward who wrote the above post is obviously not me, fresca.

I expect the imc staff to enforce its policy of no impersonators.

Thanks for the support their, whoever you are.

ACtually, I sorta get a kick out of these hamfisted attempts to impersonate me.

The thing that kills nme is the lack of research. I have, as most of us do, a fairly distinct writing style/habits.

I'm offended at the lack of research and poorly designed faux rhetoric.

Thanks again though.

> We are being invaded, by illegal Mexican aliens.

That's true but irrelevant. The issue is the hatred and bigotry of white supremists that hide their not-at-all-secret agenda behind the banner of "saving America" and under the banner of "fighting racism." When the hate mongering racist bigots attack Americans with brown skin, call them "mongrels" and tell them to "go home," when racist mother fuckers run over peaceful protesters, when white supremist mother fuckers come to _my_ city and assault _my_ freedom of speech, art, and expression, such hate mongers must be opposed by all good American patriots. It is every American's duty to oppose these racists _and_ to demand that their elected officials clamp down on the borders and enforce the laws.

I support and defend the rights of white supremists to spew their hatred and demonstrate and to try to assault their intellectual and moral superior's rights to freedom of speech, art, and expression. Most Americans do and the ALCU has fought hard to defend these hate monger's Constitutional rights. But what's relevant -- what's at issue -- isn't illegal aliens flooding into the country; everybody knows that's a problem that needs to be solved. What's relevant is the hate mongering racist bigots among us who assault Americans and wish to trample on the Constitutional rights of their intellectual and moral superiors.

Don't like Mexicans flooding into the US? Fine, go cry to your elected officials about it. Don't parade around in the desert like a bunch of fucking dickless rightard wannabes trying to pretend you're "heros" and "true Americans" and other endless homosexual postering. And don't assault monuments dedicated to Native American Indian tribes which were slaughtered by invading European butchers. And don't drive through crowds of peaceful anti-hate protesters. Don't try to hide your white supremist hatred and bigotry under the banner of "fighting racism" or "fighting sedition" or being a "true American hero."

God damned fucking Republicans.