Quote from the SOS site
http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2430&st=0&#entry19100
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----- Original Message -----
From: United States Border Patrol Auxiliary
To: 11,000 Undoc Beeps
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 9:13 PM
Subject: Baldwin Park 2 _ Minutemen Assist...


The Minutemen are requested..James Gilchrist and I will be there. I will speak...Be There or be square..JLC

The Battle for Baldwin Park Continues
Save Our State demands removal of seditious monument language

(Baldwin Park, CA) - On June 25th, from 12-2 PM, SaveOurState.org will
protest and demand that the city of Baldwin Park immediately remove
seditious anti-American language from the "Danzas Indigenas" monument at
the Baldwin Park Commuter Rail Station. The most offensive passage is a
quote from Gloria Anzaldua, which reads: This land was Mexican once, was
Indian always and is, and will be again."

On Saturday, May 14, 2005 fifty American Patriots were violently attacked
by the Brown Berets de Aztlan and MEChA resulting in one elderly Save Our
State member spending the night in the Intensive Care Unit with inner
cranial trauma. Unfortunately, the Los Angeles Times and the San Gabriel
Valley Tribune failed to report that any injuries occurred. If not for the
fine work of the Baldwin Park Police Department and the 70 officers in
riot gear, the situation could have escalated even further.

Judy Baca, the artist of the monument, Mayor Manuel Lozano, and the city
council members of Baldwin Park insist that this monument was erected as
art and that it does not promote sedition. In fact, the
counter-demonstrators and the video that followed document the
anti-American and "reconquista" sentiments that exist and further prove
the necessity for the removal of the inflammatory and divisive language.

On May 11, 2005, Lora McLaughlin of CBS Channel 2 News in a televised news
interview asked Mayor Manuel Lozano, "Would you like to see this
[language] changed?" The Mayor responded, "Absolutely. But, I don't think
the artist is in concert with us in making that type of change." On May
14, 2005 he roused the swelling ranks of counter-demonstrators by telling
them, "This project will be here 20, 30, 40 years so your grandchildren
will enjoy it." The Mayor has not been held accountable for this flop by
the media.

Joseph Turner, Executive Director of SaveOurState.org states:

"The racial hatred that seethed from the crowd that gathered to protest
against us was stifling. The attack they waged against one of our peaceful
protestors was reprehensible. Their desecration of an American flag was
unforgivable. Everything about that day underscores the simple fact that
the monument is not merely art but a representation of an ideology that
America is stolen land and they intend to reclaim it"

Once again, we implore the city of Baldwin Park to voluntarily remove
these offensive passages by Friday, July 1st, in advance of the American
Independence weekend. They must clearly demonstrate their commitment to
America and their disapproval of treasonous sentiments. If this situation
is not remedied, SaveOurState.org will take additional steps to ensure
that the passages are removed.


James L Chase
Minuteman Sector #1 The Huachuca's Commander/Manager
California Minutemen
United States Border Patrol Auxiliary
address deleted
Oceanside, CA 92056


www.UnitedStatesBorderPatrolAux.com
USBorderPatrolAux@cox.net

I done with trying to rationally debate 1People, Freddy (I'm progressive but live in an all-white gated community in San Clemente) and all the other 2-faced hypocrites that like to post here. Bottom line, the Minutemen are Americans and heroes. You Meche racists care little for the country that offers you more economic opportunities and political freedoms than any other country in the world. Don't take my word for it, take the word of Human Rights Watch and their annual report.

BTW – Meche's own mission statement states that it is committed to "the physical liberation of Occupied America" and a separate Hispanic nation in the Southwest U.S. It's motto is "Por La Raza Todo, Fuera de La Raza Nada: for the race, everything; outside the race, nothing." Gee, that’s not racist, right. Just ignore this Fred, 1People and all you other socialists - there truth is too painful, so let's just ignore, ignore, ignore.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=206767
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=13

And Hal Netkin? He's labeled as a "True American Hero" also:

http://www.americanpatrol.com/04-FEATURES/ 040516-HAL-NETKIN/040516_Feature.html

Well, if David Duke, George Bush, Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson and their ilk can be considered "heros," I'm sure the right wind extremist kooks out there can point at these types and glibly proclaim them "heros" also without any qualms.

But then we're talking generally IQs randing around 80 so it becomes reasonmable to expect such notions.

You claimed on your website that you oppose illegal immigration, that you believe its bad for the country, that illegals contribute to crime. Now you come in here and condemen patriotic Americans who volunteered their time and risked their personal well-being to help enforce immigration law at the borders! You make NO SENSE whatsoever. No crimes were committed at the border by the Minutemen (your lies about them don't count). They sat in lawn chairs, with binoculars and reported on illegal aliens violating our borders and reported it to the Border Patrol. TELL ME FRED, WHAT EXACTLY WAS WRONG WITH AMERICAN CITIZENS ASSISTING LAW ENFORCEMENT? I challenge ANY one of you cretins in here to explain that.

I was actually at the Baldwin park anti-SOS demostration on May 14 standing and marching in solidarity with the community and its right to have its own art.

And, unlike Glichrist and James "The COMMANDER" Chase and 99% of the people that talk about that day I actually witnessed what happened and was there the entire time.

According to the MinuteMan propaganda posted above "fifty American Patriots were violently attacked". WOW - - when exactly di that happen? Who was attacked? Where is the video of these attacks? Fifty "patriots" were attacked? Patriots? There couldn't have been more than 20 or 30 SOS there in the first place... The SOS video evidence shows that.

And they call us revisionists.

The only thing that they could be referring to would be the "water bottle" incident and for all any of us know it could have been thrown by a cop or an SOS member trying to incite something. And didn't the elderly "patriot" pull a similar stunt somewhere else, like maybe Laguna Beach.

And before the SOS get all sensitive and upset they need to realize that the only reason that they are coming back to Baldwin Park is so that they can incite something.

You can't incite us... we're the ones that are right... and you're the ones that hate and are full of fear...

heckfizzle...did you find the names of those other three "hispanic" organizations yet....or are you willing to concede that the SOS site information is intentionally misleading?

The following is from an AP story and refers to the Garden Grove Gilchrist event:

"protesters in California threw rocks and unopened soda cans at police and those attending a speech by Minuteman founder Jim Gilchrist"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/02/national/main699266.shtml

Now, even the revisionists have to know that was an out and out bold faced lie. I was there too, and I'll admit that there was maybe one thing thrown (looked like plastic water bottles to me) but no rocks were thrown and no unopened soda cans were thrown.

If the SOS/Minutemen are "right" and they believe that what they are doing is "right" then why do all these lies have to be told to try to win over supporters.

All anyone has to do is look at some of the video footage on Judy Baca's website to see just how full of hate, anger and mostly fear these people are...

The fascists try to give the little man a banner to express his despair, and to turn his bitterness against scapegoats. Hitler said, "Mass demonstrations must burn into the little man's soul the conviction that though a little worm he is part of a great dragon."

The ending of my last post was a quote from Trotsky's "What is Fascism" and is a must read for the MinuteMen/SOS folks that are trying to figure who they are...

The fascists try to give the little man a banner to express his despair, and to turn his bitterness against scapegoats.

A “scapegoat” is one who has done nothing wrong, yet is singled out as a target for outrage.

Unlike Hitler’s 30s & 40s scapegoats, 2005 Mexicans and other illegals in America aren’t scapegoats, they’re actual criminals, causing actual harm.

Hitler said, "Mass demonstrations must burn into the little man's soul the conviction that though a little worm he is part of a great dragon."

Yeah, that’s pretty much sums up how the deluded left sees itself: as lone rebels (in a mass demonstration) stinking of patchouli, fighting against injustice and tyranny by demanding it be replaced with harsher injustice and tyranny.

Actually a scapegoat is defined in the dictionary as : One that is made to bear the blame of others.

Immigrants are made to take the blame for the fact that where the SOS wish they could be part of the "dragon" when in fact they're really just little "worms"...

The system is to blame. It's a system that displaces people of the world and forces them to take great risks just so they can feed and take care of themselves and their families.

It's a system based on inequality and as long as people like the SOS and the MinuteMen focus on scapegoats they're actually doing the bidding of the ruling class who love it when the focus is placed away from them...

Actually a scapegoat is defined in the dictionary as : One that is made to bear the blame of others.

And the label “scapegoat” implies the target is not to blame. One more time for those in the back: German Jews, innocent; illegal Mexicans, guilty.

Immigrants are made to take the blame for the fact that where the SOS wish they could be part of the "dragon" when in fact they’re little "worms"...

Worms, huh? Those bandanna-wearing leftist thug/cowards hurling bottles at the last rally (80% of them spoiled White kollij kids) seem to be taking the SOS/Minutemen quite seriously. Actually, I prefer that the SOS be underestimated, just like the right ignored liberal lies as petty worms for too long.

Smug leftist intellectuals like to pretend they have no stake in this fight when it’s obvious for all to see that socialists and communists need illegals to fuel the wildfire that is the welfare state (or “revolution”).

The system is to blame. It's a system that displaces people of the world and forces them to take great risks just so they can feed and take care of themselves and their families.

Of which “system” are we really talking about? Somehow I’m guessing it’s not the corrupt Mexican thugocracy the left blames, but America (as usual).

“Ruling class.” This type of “revolutionary” language would almost be amusing if so many millions hadn’t died under the fists of communist regimes around the world.

The SOS and Minutemen are taking both the U.S. gummint and businesses that exploit illegals to task.

We know the U.S. has been an “enabler” of Mexican dependency. Now it’s time to put this cozy setup out to pasture.

> Now you come in here and condemen patriotic
> Americans

You won't mind if I just stop you right there where you issue your fatal logic flaw, that known as "begging the question." I don't believe you can successfully call a bunch of Nazis and other white supremists "patriotic Americans" -- and no, don't even try: as yet no racist has explained, justified, or denied the following embarrassing truths:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=206767
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=13

Elsewhere I read, "we didn't invite the white supremists" in an attempt to distance themselves what what they advocate and incite. The fact of the matter is that the "Storm Front" people didn't invite "Save Our State" / "Minutemen." The Storm Front people were around a lot longer than SOS/MM and a good case can be made that SOS/MM joined _them_. Certainly I see zero difference between the relevant ideologies of race hate among all these right-wing groups and individuals.

From my perspective -- wearing my white face and my position of privelage since I acquired a good technical, scientific education and haevn't gone seriously hungry since graduating from High School -- these "Save Our State" a.k.a. "Minutemen" clowns are the late comers joining the American Nazi Movement and Storm Front people, not the other way around.

I'll address the other issue, I guess: Yes, I'm against illegal immigration and I might even be convinced that the United States should squelch _all_ immigration down to the bare bones, letting in adacemics, technical, scientific engineers and their families in since the education system in America is pointless and worthless and America needs fresh blood to compete in a global market.

I'm against illegal immigration, something that's already got me email denouncing me as a Republican. But I'm even more agtainst racist white supremists. And the nest step _worse_ that I'm against are people who assault freedom of speech, art, and expression under the guise it's "racist" or "seditious." When these SOS/MM clowns came up with that lie, _that's_ when I took notice and vowed to oppose everything they stand for.

The heros are the white Capitalist guys of privelage -- people like me -- who are out there who aren't part of some Commie / Socialist agenda, aren't disenfranchised Mexican Americans, aren't engaged in any social platform or agenda other than opposing racist white Republican traitors utilizing undefendable and outrageous claims that:

1: illegal aliens are a social problem, causing over crowded schools, hospitals, emergency rooms, and violence in our streets.

I thought so topo until I started researching issues. Now I'm not so sure that illegal aliens _are_ a cause of over crowded schools, hospitals, and emergency rooms. And I'm not so sure that illegals are causing a lot of crime. From what I've been reading, all that appears to come from poor minorities who are American citizens.

2: The monument in Baldwin Park is some how "racist" or "seditious." The history of the monument is something that these right wing racist extremists kooks refuse to admit to or accept because the history of the monument and the origins of the _truthful_ and _tolerant_ words carved therein don't support their right-wing lies.

3: The SOS/MM/Nazi/SF groups and individuals have expressed and exhibited their violence and hate filled rhetoric to the point where I find them utterly indistinguishable. Some of these SOS/MM people probably even believe they're "fighting racism" and "fighting sedition" since they're on the left side of the Bell Curve insofar as IQ is concerned.

But even the legitimate, honest SOS/MM people who honestly think they're opposing racism or sedition refuse to accept and admit that their ranks are swelled by known racists groups and individuals, and that known white supremists groups and individuals loudly support, applaud, and defend the SOS/MM race hate, both the rhetoric and the violence.

Did you see any right-winger SOS/MM/Whatever clown denounce Hal Netkin's vehicular assault yet? Didn't happen. Won't happen -- unless they read this comment and decide thay will just to prove me wrong.

4: The SOS/MM clowns are constantly trying to scrub the embarrassing racist and violent rhetoric from their web sites, posted there by members, followers, supporters, and defenders.

Speaks volumes about what SOS/MM is all about and utterly debunks their rhetoric and propaganda claiming to be otherwise.

5: While I'm against the racist hate mongers who are attacking people's Constitutional rights to freedom of speech, art, and expression in Baldwin Park, and while I'm against prejudice predicated solely upon skin hue, I'm also against a lot of what the golod guys advocate.

The Mexican American groups that think they're fighting to regain abrogated lands are just as much fools as the racists who think they've defeated the Native American Indian tribes who still survive.

If there was a _real_ threat by foreign powers -- Mexican or otherwise -- then you would find _real_ Americans (and the government) standing up and defending the country. Instead we find hate filled racists parading around pretending they're "commanders" and "generals" of "auxilerary guards" -- which is all very amusing and outrageously stupid and foolish.

I'm also against Socialism, Communism, Anarchy, Bush fascism, and I'm against people wearing face covers when they picket, protest, or demonstrate -- more so when I'm out there with my white face, using my real name.

CLUE: You SOS/MM/Whatever clowns go run off and remove the hate mongering Nazis, white supremists, and other bigots among your ranks and -- if anyone's left -- start over. Purge your ranks of mindless rightard stupidity and myths about illegal aliens and try again. Go to a fucking library and do your fucking homework if anyone's left after purging the racists from your ranks, and _then_ maybe normal, rational, educated people will believe anything that comes out of you white bread well-fed Republican yaps.

heckfizzle, while your holdin' you nuts, can you see if you can find a hair on them?

Once again , fred makes a fool of himself....

"Go to a fucking library and do your fucking homework if anyone's left after purging the racists from your ranks, and _then_ maybe normal, rational, educated people will believe anything that comes out of you white bread well-fed Republican yaps"

Umm, you have no idea of the education i have, or for that matter how well read I am. If you are normal and rational, there is no hope for this world.

You rant about racists while on YOUR site you have pictures of me, calling me a "cracker". You said " maybe I am wrong about these people. Maybe they are just folks with regualr lives..."

Well, at least you have one thing correct.

Now then hypocrite, waddle your way down to BP if you have the inclination to do so, and carry your racism with you. Face us in front of the racist language on the 'monument' of hatred. Bring all of your misunderstandings and lefty brainwashing with you.

You all need to grow up and have some children. Perhaps that will teach you about the reality of life and jolt you out of your immature fantasy worlds.

" But then we're talking generally IQs randing around 80 so it becomes reasonmable to expect such notions."

Too bad mine is 150. But, that is not important.

What is really important is that you lefties worship intellect, and that is all that matters to you. That is your measure of a person. Character counts for little in your economy...but that is the tru measure of a man.

Sorry, but most of the folks that showed at BP on the angry mob side of the eq were almost a drooling comatose swath of semi-humanity.

Yes, we have the water bottle on vid flying through the air from YOUR side of the street freakball.

Of which “system” are we really talking about,” Holden Riggs asks? It’s the system in which both the Mexican “thugocracy” as he calls it and the American Right Wing Capitalists both benefit.
The Mexican ruling class exploits and abuses workers to such an extent that people are willing to risk their lives just to come work here and in turn the ruling class continues to benefit here because there labor allows for the continuation of the system of cheap labor/goods driven consumer capitalism.
Holden Riggs speaks of the “millions dying under the fists of communist regimes around the world,” and its very true I won’t argue that point but lets not forget the 10-16 million dead due to U.S. “interventions” around the world since WWII (Vietnam, Korea, Central America, Iraq etc. etc. etc. and that’s a conservative estimate).
Can’t we do better than this as human beings? Can’t we do better than communist and capitalist regimes slaughtering people to stay in power? Can’t we just let people live without blaming them?
Focus on the real issues and stop scapegoating!! The SOS are full of hate and they know it. Just look at their website and read some of the posts - - - www.saveourstate.org
Holden Riggs says: “The SOS and Minutemen are taking both the U.S. gummint and businesses that exploit illegals to task.”
Well actually by coming back to Baldwin Park the SOS and Minutemen are attacking free speech and public art. What’s next a demonstration for every wall mural in East L.A. with similar language? Good luck.
The monument exposes the SOS as fearful “worms” that are afraid brown people are going to move in next door.
Just take a look at their website and the groups that align themselves with them and you can tell that they are racist as well…

"The system is to blame. It's a system that displaces people of the world and forces them to take great risks just so they can feed and take care of themselves and their families." - wasactuallthere.

The only system that is to blame is the the American Government. I consider it a system... a system that has failed to protect its citz borders from an invading thrid world horde that you will not hold accountable. In your fantasy world, they are "forced".

Face it, that is a lame cop out.

If you can call what I said "a lame cop out" then you have to admit that your point of view is a little simplistic. The American government's job is to facilitate the capitalist system. Just look at the laws they pass: The Bankruptcy Bill, they want to privatize social security, Bush wants a GUEST WORKER PROGRAM!! C'mon connect the dots!!!

Capital needs cheap labor. The cheapest available labor on the ground are the undocumented workers or guest workers.

You guys call us "socialists" and "communists" but if you really want to address the root causes here you have to consider what I just said. The workers in this country don't run the government. We don't make the decisions or the laws. The same holds for Mexico.

The Mexican government and the American government are in this together. The rich in both countries benefit from the status quo.

If you as a American worker are suffering as a result of the system and the status quo then why blame others that are suffering even more? Why not blame the system?

The SOS/Minutemen can talk about closing the borders, snipers on the border (like "Commander" Chase's group), harassing day laborers, community artwork, whatever they want...

The U.S. government wil NEVER, EVER close that border. They need the cheap labor.

The SOS/ Minutemen and their sympathizers have every right to be upset about what's going on in this country. It's true that workers are under attack and our standard of living is going down more and more everyday. But please, please focus on the real issue, not fellow workers that are also getting screwed...

The U.S. dollar collapses and gasoline and food imports to the US grind to a halt. A starving James Gilchrist and James Chase reluctantly decide to migrate south, in search of food and drinking water. Fortunately, the Mexican Minutemen have closed their border to protect their country from lazy American migrants, and our two racist sons-of-immigrants are picked off by Mexican snipers as they try to sneak across the border.

Coming soon to an empire near you!

Stay tuned...

up and announce it publically? Or will sneak in again? Chase and Gilcrest have the courage of their convictions. Will Duane?

1planet, do you ever post your own stuff or are you just 1cutandpaste?

..c'mon heckfizzle...grow some balls, use one handle and answer the question on why you and the SOS lied regarding HK policy.

...or are you too much of a fuckin' pussy?

Hey assface, were you talking to me? I only post under one handle, dipshit.

Now, what is your vagina aching about this time??

I've only got a minute so let me address the bullshit about none of us denouncing Hal Netkin. WHY WOULD WE? He did NOTHING wrong. Hal, a Jew who YOU tried to call a White Supremacist and a Jew married to a Mexican national who was an illegal alien, was ATTACKED by vile, leftist scum like YOU. Being the big puss you are you'd probably crawl into a fetal position under those circumstances and allow yourself to be beaten senseless. Rational people, when surrounded and assaulted by a mob of hate-filled pond-scum don't sit in their vehicles and allow themselves to be beaten, they hit the accelerator.

Notice the cops let him go that very same night? Notice there were no charges filed? That's because Hal did committed no crime. Besides that, no one was injured. The two sissies on the ground faked their injuries, one even waving off paramedics to get an interview with the media.

Fred, please take your meds like the doctor ordered.

...please explain how Asians and Mexican-Americans and Blacks qualify as White Supremacists. The Asians and Mexican-Americans and Blacks who support SaveOurState and the Minuteman project can't wait to hear this....

More than likely , we are in almost total agreement on this one. Bush is in bed with everyone and every thing in sight. He is just wicked in many ways.

Again, agreed...except for the fellow workers part.

I am all for large scale immigration, but only if it is graduated, monitored and legal. Its, " there is the liine, NO ONE gets to bump the line.".

Oh, the part about the Gov not closing the border....they will once we shame them into doing so.

You are busy enuff now to download a free client and do this for real. Don't worry, we wont bite you ! I know you think we are just racist scum freaks. I tell my daughters that all the time. I am rasing a house full of racists ! But, its just not so. Sure , there are some that lean that way, and dont really like 'beaners' and such(that is about the strongest word i have heard any of them use). But for the most part, we are simply not interested in if someone is Mexican, central American, blue, plaid or for that matter and oompa loompa. Its about the borders, and the reconquista/aztlan fairy tale.

Littlebopeep . . .

Mexican workers are subject to many of the same factors that we are in this country. NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT and the other globalization, free-trade agreements allow capital (money for investment) to move freely, thereby taking skilled manufacturing jobs from Americans as well as other high paid countries and shipping them elsewhere.

Did you know that Germany ships some of its jobs to this country because our workers are compensated less than workers in Germany? Its true, look it up. So workers in Germany suffer because of the pro-capitalist, anti-worker system that currently runs the planet..

Mexican workers are subject to the same system. Its called the "race to the bottom". If you connect the dots you won't see immigrant workers as the source of the problem. You'll see capitalism as the source of the problem. If not then I have to believe that the SOS/Minutemen movement has other motives...

As far as the US government being shamed into closing the border, think again. Consider the fact that Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the United States. CUBA! (It's true, look it up, facts are fun!) Also consider that the Cubans enjoy universal health care. Ask yourself this: Does that shame the rulers in this country into doing anything to change the status quo? Are not more and more Americans going without health care everyday.

yeah, I know, I know... it's all the "illegals" fault... keep telling yourself that...

Please, connect the dots.

Of which “system” are we really talking about,” Holden Riggs asks? It’s the system in which both the Mexican “thugocracy” as he calls it and the American Right Wing Capitalists both benefit.

>>> I’m not sure why you think only “Right Wing Capitalists” benefit from the illegals’ cheap labor. Everyone crooked, left on right, “benefits” except the average American who is stuck with the bill.

The Mexican ruling class exploits and abuses workers to such an extent that people are willing to risk their lives just to come work here and in turn the ruling class continues to benefit here because there labor allows for the continuation of the system of cheap labor/goods driven consumer capitalism.

>>> It’s a disgrace fer sure, solvable either by Mexico getting its act together (unlikely) or the U.S. taking out the Mexican “ruling class” narco-thugocracy. But the left opposes any war the U.S. can win, and would oppose warring against Mexico's government even though to do so would save the Mexican people.

Holden Riggs speaks of the “millions dying under the fists of communist regimes around the world,” and its very true I won’t argue that point but lets not forget the 10-16 million dead due to U.S. “interventions” around the world since WWII (Vietnam, Korea, Central America, Iraq etc. etc. etc. and that’s a conservative estimate).

>>> There is no real comparison between the millions of worldwide murders courtesy of the communist menace and imperfect U.S. foreign policy.

>>> America's moral character is light-years ahead of the twisted portrayal of the “imperialist” nation lefties want it to be in order to justify their own silly-assed, lopsided hatred.

Can’t we do better than this as human beings? Can’t we do better than communist and capitalist regimes slaughtering people to stay in power? Can’t we just let people live without blaming them?

>>> Nice try, but this is total baloney. To equate the relative high standards of living created by capitalism and free markets with the evils and failures of communist regimes requires a level of self-delusion even most mainstream leftists refuse.

Focus on the real issues and stop scapegoating!! The SOS are full of hate and they know it. Just look at their website and read some of the posts - - -

http://www.saveourstate.org

Holden Riggs says: “The SOS and Minutemen are taking both the U.S. gummint and businesses that exploit illegals to task.”

>>>> That’s what I wrote all right. And I stand by it.

Well actually by coming back to Baldwin Park the SOS and Minutemen are attacking free speech and public art. What’s next a demonstration for every wall mural in East L.A. with similar language? Good luck.

>>> If some Chicano gang dick spray paints racist ‘aztlan’ slogans on a wall, futher degrading his barrio, that’s his and his community’s problem. But when a seditious monument is paid for with TAXPAYER money, all bets are off.

>>> It doesn’t take a genius to figure out what the Re-cunt-keesta “artist” who designed the monument meant it when she wrote, “It was better before THEY came” especially since the cooze has herself explained it as being Anti-White.

>>> Leftists know they’re wrong about the Baldwin Park monument. They have no real arguments against public property with Anti-American slogans except to call those who oppose it “racist.” If a swastika somehow ended up as an official symbol on a taxpayer-funded piece of “art” the hippies would scream themselves hoarse.

The monument exposes the SOS as fearful “worms” that are afraid brown people are going to move in next door.

>>> That’s fucking bullshit, and you know it. LEGAL Brown and Black Americans are suffering as much as anyone from the illegal invasion.

If you can call what I said "a lame cop out" then you have to admit that your point of view is a little simplistic.

>>> Though you offer more complex views of the problem, it still can be resolved with simple solutions. If only there politicians with the balls to enact them.

The American government's job is to facilitate the capitalist system. Just look at the laws they pass: The Bankruptcy Bill, they want to privatize social security, Bush wants a GUEST WORKER PROGRAM!! C'mon connect the dots!!!

>>> Well, since we DO have a free market, capitalist system, what’s the problem? It’s only a problem if you’re a socialist or communist. And Bush’s guest worker program is traitorous bullshit, we know this.

Capital needs cheap labor. The cheapest available labor on the ground are the undocumented workers or guest workers.

>>> SOME capitalists need cheap labor. But it’s only cheap for these certain crooks, not the society that has to pay for illegals’ welfare tab and crime/disease cleanup.

You guys call us "socialists" and "communists" but if you really want to address the root causes here you have to consider what I just said.

>>> It would be refreshing if most communists and socialists took some pride in their views, but even they know those systems are no good. They want specific results but have no way of achieving them with lofty collectivist drivel.

The workers in this country don't run the government. We don't make the decisions or the laws. The same holds for Mexico.

>>> The Minutemen are “the people” as much as any group you wish to put forward. And public opinion CAN and DOES change the laws. Hell, in this case, all the MM and SOS want is enforcement of the laws we have now!

The Mexican government and the American government are in this together. The rich in both countries benefit from the status quo.

>>> That is true. And it is also true that this shit is going to stop, one way or another.

If you as a American worker are suffering as a result of the system and the status quo then why blame others that are suffering even more? Why not blame the system?

>>> The “System”, when working correctly, guarantees secure borders. Since the current crop of subnormals in DC aren’t enforcing the Constitution, to hell with them. Time for a change!

>>> Most Americans, including the MM and SOS, understand why the illegals are invading. But the those Americans who can see 10 to 15 years down the road know that if change isn’t effected -- and soon--it’s all over for both nations.

In response...

Holden says, I’m not sure why you think only “Right Wing Capitalists” benefit from the illegals’ cheap labor. Everyone crooked, left on right, “benefits” except the average American who is stuck with the bill.

>>> Both the so-called right and left in this country are in league with the capitalists and are both in favor of the status quo… that’s the definition of “Right Wing”.

Holden says, “It’s a disgrace fer sure, solvable either by Mexico getting its act together (unlikely) or the U.S. taking out the Mexican “ruling class” narco-thugocracy. But the left opposes any war the U.S. can win, and would oppose warring against Mexico's government even though to do so would save the Mexican people.”

>>> Just like the American government will NEVER close the border they will also NEVER do anything to better conditions for workers in Mexico… American corporations benefit too much from conditions there. It's time to start connecting dots...

Holden says “There is no real comparison between the millions of worldwide murders courtesy of the communist menace and imperfect U.S. foreign policy.”

>>> Dead people are dead people. It doesn’t matter who kills them....

Holden says “If some Chicano gang dick spray paints racist ‘aztlan’ slogans on a wall, futher degrading his barrio, that’s his and his community’s problem.”

>>> Spoken like somebody that has never been to East L.A and probably would be afraid to even get off the freeway. The murals in East L.A. are some of the best art I have ever seen. I’m sorry that you think community art created by brown people for the enjoyment of their community must be made by “Chicano gang dicks”. (You just sound full of anger)...

I won’t directly quote Holden’s references to Judy Baca because of the vulgar language but I will say that it’s a shame that the right wing always has to use slurs and sexist remarks to make their points. If your argument has merit then you shouldn’t have to resort to direct personal attacks.

But did you ever consider that maybe it actually WAS better before THEY came…

The poster who claimed that the anti- Minutemen forces have been made up of 90% white college students is insane - or a liar, or both.

I have been involved directly in both cases.

90% of your opponents on the street have been Chican@ youth.

You can delude yourself into thinking you're safe with a bunch of suburban white kids all you want.

In fact, be my guest, you pot bellied slugs.

What %**^% fools.

Here is the Commemorative Flag of the first encounter at Baldwin Park.

I was in BP. I was on the American side, not the Razis or MECHA animals side. I saw the water bottle hit my friend. I told the officer in front of me to call a ambulance. Get your facts straight. They way you peolple behaved, kicking the Amrican Flag etc.. is despicable. I support SOS and the Minutemen.
Oh by the way, I am Hispanic.

The pro-Minuteman propaganga says that "50 patriots were violently attacked". When did that happen? When were 50 "patriots" attacked? You know that never happened and it is a lie!

A more true statement would have been "20-30 people stood on the corner in fear". . . or in self-hate in your case.

...c'mon heckfizzle, you lying fuck...name the other three "hsipanic" organization that HD is working with...

..easy enough, right?

Mexican workers are not subject to the same system.

Mexican workers are working here illegally, without work permits, without being taxed.

Every building being built by illegal Mexican invaders, is a safety hazard to anyone entering that building.

Everything illegal Mexican invader workers do, is illegal.

Illegal Mexican invader workers, are spreading TB and God only knows, what other diseases.

Why? They come through the backdoor, instead of the front door, where we cannot screen them for diseases.

These illegal Mexican invading workers, are criminals. Criminals, just like all the illegal white-skinned immigrants here. They are all illegal criminal people, who must leave.

The monument at Baldwin Park with the seditious comment, must be removed.

The comment stating that this land is Mexican, and it will be again, totally represents what you invaders are all about.

If you were there, then you heard your side chanting "We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us." This is the same mentality, on the Baldwin Park monument. That this is your stolen homeland and you are going to take it back. It is a blatant threat to all Americans.

You are threatening us, so we are responding in self defense.

So far, we have, and will do our very best to remain the peaceful intelligent ones.

You want our country. Guess what, you are going to have to fight and die for it, just like our ancestors did.

I do not believe it will get that extreme. In the end all illegal immigrants, are going to be punished for breaking our laws.

We cannot have two separate groups of people in this country. One group who has to obey the rule of law, then one who does not have to. DISCRIMINATION, NOT AGAINST THOSE PEOPLE OF COLOR, BUT AGAINST LAW-ABIDING AMERICAN CITIZENS. IT WILL STOP, JUST LIKE SLAVERY. ALL EVIL MUST END.

Some of your people are planning a peaceful response to the second Baldwin Park protest, you would be smart to keep it peaceful.

Your efforts are futile. No matter what you do, in the end the outcome is the same. All illegal immigrants are going to leave.

All white-skinned and brown-skinned illegal immigrants are going to leave.

What is the difference between white-skinned illegals and the illegal Mexican aliens.

You do not see illegal Canadian, Russian or Irish aliens threatening to take our land. Nor, do you see them trying to force us to speak their languages. They are not threatening us.

YOU ARE THREATENING US, THEREFORE WE MUST DEFEND OURSELVES.

WE WILL WIN. WHOSE STREETS? THESE ARE AMERICAN STREETS. FOUGHT FOR AND WON WITH THE BLOOD OF MY ANCESTORS.

IN THE END, THIS IS ABOUT ONE THING AND ONE THING ONLY!!!!!!

EQUALITY. WE MUST ALL OBEY THE RULE OF LAW!!!!! IF I AM PUNISHED FOR BREAKING THAT RULE OF LAW, YOU MUST BE PUNISHED.

The traitors, who use to be Americans that hire these illegals, they will be punished to. Our treasonous government officials are already feeling the heat.

JUSTICE FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL PREVAIL. WE HAVE BEEN BETRAYED!!!!!!!!!!!

People that call themselves Hispanic are still under the influence of colonialism.

Both sides are American - one side is Native and the other side are colonialists from across the Atlantic Ocean.

Proud to be an Anchor Baby!

Hey dickhead, I was there in BP and was not for a moment scared of a bunch of mongoloid parasites yelling racists slogans....

One of our members is a Russian LEGAL immigrant who stood with us and he commented that he faced down Russian tanks in 1989 when the Soviets tried to crush unrest in his area. He said he was not afraid of them so he certainly was not afraid of a bunch of Mexican retards.

1planet, do you ever post your own stuff or are you just 1cutandpaste?

Answer: All the time. Haven't you seen my pictorial of GG? There are two times when I cut and paste. First is when I am sourcing a document (like above) and reporting it to the people, and second is when I found someone else saying what I want to say (no reason to re-invent the wheel)

Oh, and this response is an original, by the one and only, "1planet1people"

Let's not forget that you guys were surrounded by cops...

Why can't anybody show me some evidence of when "50 partiots violently attacked" at the Baldwin Park demo? C'mon Hellfire... Why does you side have to lie and make up stuff?

"The pro-Minuteman propaganga says that "50 patriots were violently attacked". When did that happen? When were 50 "patriots" attacked? You know that never happened and it is a lie!"

Hmmmm, not much different than saying that H. Netkin ran over FIVE of your people, is it? Or how about the one claiming that "we" are beating and killing your people everyday? Don't you think if that were true, it MIGHT have been in the NEWS?

Jeez guys, too much B.S. being slung around don't you think?
Shouldn't we be fighting, TOGETHER, the illegal Jehadist type folks that were found in Northern California? Maybe you could even be lucky enough to be in one of the hospitals or grocery stores that they were/are planning to hit!!

Who made this your land?

We've been here 40,000 yrs and we are tired of following your rules.

Do you think your threat of violence will scare us this time?

This is the consequence of 500 yrs of bigotry.

Any act of war on your part will be dealt with, we are not afraid of you, we are not those timid cartoon characters you have brainwashed yourself with.

We are not alone. You are being watched by the whole world - we are making sure of that.

Your apartheid and supremacist mentality is antiquated and breathing its last breath - give it up – go home and live in peace!

P.S. Mexicans fought in the American Revolution too. Source: http://www.sar.org/mxssar/mxssar-e.htm

" Shouldn't we be fighting, TOGETHER, the illegal Jehadist type folks that were found in Northern California?"

Uh, I doubt that that's gonna fly around here. Clearly those poor peace-loving muslim folk were simply being harrassed by the fascists.

He asks: " What is the difference between white-skinned illegals and the illegal Mexican aliens?"

Well, for one you guys aren't targting white-skinned "illegals". One read of the SOS message board reveals that you guys are just scared of brown people and have run out of places in California to flee...

It's based on fear...

Thanks for admitting the Minutemen/SOS lie...

As far as joining together in opposition to Al Qaeda, no thanks. I refuse to live in fear like your side does. You guys are in fear of terrorists, "illegals", legal brown people, socialists, communists, anarchists... etc. etc.


Fear is the favorite American pastime... and you guys are "true Americans"

C'mon out of your bunker and bring Hellfire with you. I didn't know Hellfire was hiding behind a Russian immigrant and the cops... (this will instigate a profanity laced response from Hellfire)

Qoute: "BTW – Meche's own mission statement states that it is committed to "the physical liberation of Occupied America" and a separate Hispanic nation in the Southwest U.S. It's motto is "Por La Raza Todo, Fuera de La Raza Nada: for the race, everything; outside the race, nothing." Gee, that’s not racist, right. "

"La Raza" from "La Raza Cosmica” means the cosmic race - the human race joined together to make the earth a better place.

"Physical Liberation" means to be active, to get a college degree, to vote, to get those high positions in major corporations, politics and the community, to be accountable, to master your own destiny.

Mecha has never advocated for separatism, only opposed it.

You spread lies to create a sense of impending doom to the WHITE race. There is no such pending doom.

What you are achieving in doing is unifying Chicanos, Mexicans and all our allies (White, Black, Asian and Amerindian, etc.) against your colonialists’ precepts.

Put an end to your maddness and go in peace!

Amnesty: An act in which the rulers pardon the injustices they have committed.
-Ambrose Bierce

> Umm, you have no idea of the education i have,

[heh] You don't think your postings give you away, huh?

> I've only got a minute so let me address the bullshit
> about none of us denouncing Hal Netkin. WHY
> WOULD WE? He did NOTHING wrong.

Yeah, it wasn't as if he ran over a bunch of peaceful _white_ protesters, after all. And it's not like his own skin hue was _dark_ or something else that would make it a crime, huh?

Not only do these clowns _not_ denounce vehicular assault on peaceful protesters, they defend it and claim it's not a crime.

Amazing.

> A more true statement would have been "20-30
> people stood on the corner in fear". . . or in self-hate
> in your case.

When I photographed the racists, my impression was that they were grim and unhappy seeing as how the community turned out in overwhelming numbers to oppose racism. None of them looked to me to be in fear of anything, certainly not the peaceful protesters or the police.

My impression was that the racists were verging on the suicidal that so few racists joined their ranks and that so many real American patriots had come out to stand in solidarity to oppose them.

My opinions, of course, based on what I saw and the photographs I took -- as well as considering the fact that the hate mongers are going to try to save face by pulling the same Republidiot stunt again, allowing the community to once again overwhelmingly oppose their bigotry.

You know, fear _is_ a part of these people but not relevant to the Baldwin Park smack down. I see these people fearing the fact that non-whites are having more children than they are and that many parts of Southern California they are the minority. I see them unable to accept the inevitable -- their own extinction in North America, eventually, since they're being out bred.

That's what I see these clowns fearing. And they think they can do something to stop it ergo the racist hatred and bigotry -- and assaults on freedom of speech, art, and expression.

My opinions.

Both the so-called right and left in this country are in league with the capitalists and are both in favor of the status quo… that’s the definition of “Right Wing”.

>>>> The left is also the “Right Wing?” All right, define it how you like. There’s a real problem with the left and the “status quo.” 98% of the status quo is just fine. Revolution for the hell of it and replacing what works with what doesn’t has been a hallmark of the American left since 1900.

>>>> I notice you yourself are in a bind. You’re not a capitalist (by choice) yet you at least acknowledge the murderous history of communism, unlike the many others at leftymedia who still think it’ll work. You’re in a tough spot.

Holden says, “It’s a disgrace fer sure, solvable either by Mexico getting its act together (unlikely) or the U.S. taking out the Mexican “ruling class” narco-thugocracy. But the left opposes any war the U.S. can win, and would oppose warring against Mexico's government even though to do so would save the Mexican people.”
Just like the American government will NEVER close the border they will also NEVER do anything to better conditions for workers in Mexico… American corporatit, ons benefit too much from conditions there. It's time to start connecting dots...

>>>> The fact that American companies do relocate to Mexico belies your claims. Jobs means capital means a higher standard of living. And the blanket condemnation of “evil corporations” is going to have to be chucked by the left before it hopes to see the real picture. Mexico, like the former Soviet Union, is rich in natural resources, but mismanagement and corruption have kept both countries poor. Russia didn’t have the ‘safety-valve’ that the corrupt Mexican government has with the U.S.

>>> Shut off that valve and maybe Mexicans will start to work for change in their own country.

Holden says “There is no real comparison between the millions of worldwide murders courtesy of the communist menace and imperfect U.S. foreign policy.”

Dead people are dead people. It doesn’t matter who kills them....

>>>> Wrong. One more time: America doesn’t kill enemies to conquer and enslave nations. Overwhelmingly we’ve fought to protect other countries from those controlled by tyrannical governments. “All war is bad” is a bunk statement used to hide the moral superiority of one side: America’s. I, for one, refuse to tolerate the “blame America first” crowd.

Holden says “If some Chicano gang dick spray paints racist ‘aztlan’ slogans on a wall, futher degrading his barrio, that’s his and his community’s problem.”
Spoken like somebody that has never been to East L.A and probably would be afraid to even get off the freeway.

>>>> Don’t think I’m singling out “Chicanos.” Gang scum of ANY race tagging public property doesn’t help them or their community. Scum tagging pro-racist slogans of ANY kind doesn’t help, either.

The murals in East L.A. are some of the best art I have ever seen. I’m sorry that you think community art created by brown people for the enjoyment of their community must be made by “Chicano gang dicks”. (You just sound full of anger)...

>>>> Murals aren’t the same as gang tagging. Besides, this phony embracing of a culture Mexicans fled to come to the USA is only holding them back.

>>> Have you ever noticed the more successful races give only a token nod to their old heritage and fully embrace being plain Americans? Asians now have higher incomes than comparable Whites, but you don’t see Asians tying their usefulness as productive citizens with murals.

>>>> I can only speak for me when I say AM angry, and I have a right to be angry. This righteous anger stems from the lack of law enforcement and justice regarding the illegal invasion, and watching superior American culture being supplanted by the same backwards filth and anarchy that makes Mexico a living nightmare. Apparently even Mexicans don't want to live in such squalor, yet they're bringing it with them WHY? To remind them of "home?"

>>> Every American should be furious at the illegal invasion. It’s OUR hospitals and schools and welfare system (broke beyond repair anyway) that are taking the hits. This is serious business. The left never admits who really pays for their pie-in-the sky “free” programs because they have no apparent concept of consequences.

>>> I find it laughable that the left, which has used “protest anger”--whether real or faked—to get stuff from a capitulating society seems so shocked now. Frankly, you guys were caught off guard by the fury. Ha ha ha.

I won’t directly quote Holden’s references to Judy Baca because of the vulgar language but I will say that it’s a shame that the right wing always has to use slurs and sexist remarks to make their points. If your argument has merit then you shouldn’t have to resort to direct personal attacks.

>>>>> Regarding not meeting personal attacks, you're the ONE exception around here, dude. All the other leftists here enjoy a good name-calling session, especially the subnormal KPC.

>>> As for name-calling, if Baca was a White Supremacist and “It was better before THEY came” referred to Mexican immigrants both legal and illegal, some enterprising thug would have already dynamited the monument.

>>> Baca is a self-described “Chicano activist.” Imagine the fury of the Birkenstock crowd if a “White activist” was using government monies to promote the White race? The response from leftists would no doubt be lawless and violent.

>>> I get extra pleasure out of this “artist’s” name when I embrace “multiculturalism”, since “Baca” means “stupid” in Japanese.

But did you ever consider that maybe it actually WAS better before THEY came…

>>> Nope. But even as a matter of opinion, I think you know as well I do it’s better now for Mexicans ever since their neighbor to the north assumed control of the territories.

>>> Since the present standard of living in Mexico is a lot closer to the now-primitive way people lived 120 years ago, you would think Mexicans who think it was “better before” would stay put. But they, too, love and want all the things the free market and Western Civilization provides: both are superior to their own country’s socialism and corruption.

>>> The left blames America and holds up a shithole like Cuba as some kind of superior Paradise, but they sure don’t live there, do they? Hypocrisy or common sense?

well pachuko
say again who has been here for 40 thou years???
the mexiKKKans???
lol.
the spanish?
lol

or perhaps you were CONFUSED,
thinking of ME and my Aboriginal Peoples.
the ones who were here FIRST.
the ones who helped to form this
great NATION, AMERICA.

you have no ties to our culture,
and certainly nothing LEGITIMATE.

get a clue, you'll never be anything even
remotely close to me or my peoples.

if you feel so strongly about mexiKKKo and its
false claims about MY HOMELAND,
then why don't you go back,
since you love it so much, and have some weird fixation about how "advanced" it supposedly is.

whooo! that was good. now
back to our usual programing(non-mexican programing)

A fellow who can't separate a micro-minority of White Power dorks--rejected by both the Minutemen and SOS--with legitimate pro-American, pro-secure borders protestors will have a hard time separating any wheat from chaff, or common sense from socialist rheoric.

Socialism is a failure, as is communism. Both of these failed -isms' followers constantly try to deny that is what they are.

You are obviously still under the influence of colonialism.

We are the Anahuac.

And you are?

"America for Americans"...


...yup...

...North, South and Central!

Holden: America doesn’t kill enemies to conquer and enslave nations. Overwhelmingly we’ve fought to protect other countries from those controlled by tyrannical governments.

>>> Ever wonder why the US supports just about every right-wing “thugocracy” in the world. Connect the dots.

>>>Have you ever heard of the word “hegemony” Here’s a list of what I can think of off the top of my head - - Pinochet in Chile in the 70s – 80s after the CIA overthrew a democratically elected Allende, Somoza in Nicaragua in the 70s, Noriega in Panama until he failed to support US aggression in Central America and then all of a sudden he was a drug lord, Hussein in Iraq throughout the 80s until he wasn’t needed anymore and then US/UN sanctions led to the death of 500,000 children, Suharto in Indonesia . . . they slaughtered over a million people with US support and supervision and guns!!, Marcos in the Phillipines, ….

And then the US government criticizes Chavez in Venezuela and call him a “terrorist supporter” even though he has SEVEN democratic elections and referendum.

>>>Is the reason 5-6 million people died in Korea and Vietnam died during our wars there because we “tried to protect them” Its the old adage that 'in order to save the village, first we had to destroy it'. It's now called the Fallouja syndrome...

>>>Take off the blinders man!! It’s not a flawed foreign policy, its murder!! And communists murder too.. so don’t even go there.

Holden: Have you ever noticed the more successful races give only a token nod to their old heritage and fully embrace being plain Americans? Asians now have higher incomes than comparable Whites, but you don’t see Asians tying their usefulness as productive citizens with murals.

>>> Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe the measure of success is not only quantified through monetary compensation. Being able to create a work of art mean something!!

>>>But did you ever consider that maybe it actually WAS better before THEY came…
Holden : Nope.

>>>Of course you didn’t. I knew the answer to that question before I even asked it. Strip malls, the paving of the earth, unprecedented consumerism, 3 car families, $6,000,000 in consumer credit card debt, chemical laden fast food, a war that won’t end in our lifetime, the inability to think back even ONE GENERATION, white people fleeing the state… I’m sure you would agree that that is just about the pinnacle of human existence and that there is no better world possible.

>>> Your way of thinking is known as “American Exceptionalism”. It’s the idea that Americans can do no wrong (If we’re start a war we must be the good guys) and that Americans operate outside the known paradigm for human interaction and existence.

>>> How come a “s---hole like Cuba can give health care to all its people and the “greatest country in the world” can’t.

$6,000,000,000 in consumer credit card debt...

"we are the anuhuiac"?
what is that?
another one of your COLONIALIST lies.
you have no claim. if you do than prove it.

as I have said, we are not mexiKKKans,
we owe no allegience to mexiKKKo.

by your own thinking, your own attempts,
to COLONIZE the sacred native lands of the INDIGENOUS PEOPLES.
you are in FACT the COLONIZER.
in your twisted mode of rationalization, you now claim that the "gringo" has "stolen your land".

when in fact, IT WAS NEVER YOURS to BEGIN with.
you are a european desent colonialist, still up to your old tricks.
you wish to distance yourself(ves) from this fact, that you have and still practice, genocide against my tribal peoples in mexiKKKo, central and south america.

and now here in America, and truely, you have never stopped; begining with your landfall on oct 12 1492.
right to this very hour.
IF you feel so strongly to act against RACISM and GENOCIDE, look first to your own country, mexiKKKo.

when you have settled accounts there, you may begin to appreciate the great struggle of my Indigenous Peoples here in America.
my example to you is the Mayas in s.mexiKKKo.

do they feel a great unity with the mexIKKKan?
does the mexiKKKan feel that he "owes" the land back to the Indigenous Peoples? or is he content to exploit the land and cultures therein?
tell me about the Tarahumara, do they feel a great unity with the xiKKKano concept of aztlan?
or would they veiw it as another bullshit movement of the whiteman(the mexikkkan;who is considered "white"i.e. european, by all tribal peoples)

can you see now how full of shit you seem?
you have no claim to OUR NATIVE LANDS.
we will not fight for mexIKKKo.
America belongs to the NATIVES.
(notiice how well you like to wave the mexiKKKan flag at BP protest)
later, and I am one of the tribes you carelessly mention in your false attempt to string your non-existant tie to the south west.
Native American Forever, mexiKKKo never.
con safos.

Quote: "who do you think I am?

"we are the anuhuac"?
what is that?
another one of your COLONIALIST lies.
you have no claim. if you do than prove it.

as I have said, we are not mexiKKKans,
we owe no allegience to mexiKKKo. "

This is not about Mexico, though Mexico is a nation of indigenous peoples. Mexican did not come from Europe, they are not Spanish, they are not White - they are indigenous to Turtle Island.

The Anahuac is the confederation of the Uto-Aztec peoples, which includes all of the Great Basin Tribes in what is today called the USA, but recognized as Aztlan by over 20 million indigenous persons.

I am Apache and Huichol - both nations belonging to the Anahuac.

"who do you think I am?" you ask.

Your hostility says much about who you are.

When you look into the see of brown faces in Baldwin Park, you will see Tarahumara, Mayans, Aztecs, Huichols, Yaqui, Zapotecas, Apaches, Hopis, Shoshoni, Zuni and many others. We are united.

Join us, you've been living a lie for to long.

This is not about Mexico, it's about breaking the chains of colonialism.

--Holden: Have you ever noticed the more successful races give only a token nod to their old heritage and fully embrace being plain Americans? Asians now have higher incomes than comparable Whites, but you don’t see Asians tying their usefulness as productive citizens with murals.

This is untrue. Asians with equivalent educations and jobs as whites tend to make less money than whites. It's been studied over and over.

Also, the idea that Asians don't retain their heritage is absurd. The first Chinese came here around 1849, and the very same Chinatowns still exist today (more or less - some burned down). The little Italies, Germantowns, and Jewish quarters barely exist anymore. The only Asian group that's started to vanish is the Japanese, and that's largely due to the internment camps, which disposessed thousands of people of their property, and broke up the Japantowns.

Also, notably, when Vietnamese refugees came here, they were unwelcome and hated by many Americans. The government tried to disperse them across the country, but, eventually, they coalesced into communities in OC, Boston, California, and Texas.

There's a lot of cultural cohesion there.

As far as Asian murals go, there are some, at least in LA. Asian artistic expression tends to focus more on things like gardening, food, and architecture.

"You know, fear _is_ a part of these people but not relevant to the Baldwin Park smack down. I see these people fearing the fact that non-whites are having more children than they are and that many parts of Southern California they are the minority. I see them unable to accept the inevitable -- their own extinction in North America, eventually, since they're being out bred."

Fred, Latinos make up only 12% of the population. Whites are still 75%. SoCal is a unique situation. White extinction is not happening.

There are China Towns in every Major USA city with eloaborate murals and monuments.

There are many hidden cultural centers that are exclusive - only permitting Asians.

They quietly move in and out of financial arenas as winners. There are Asian societies that are very well organized and very focused on material gains.

And that's okay.

Holden: America doesn’t kill enemies to conquer and enslave nations.

>>> Overwhelmingly we’ve fought to protect other countries from those controlled by tyrannical governments.

Ever wonder why the US supports just about every right-wing “thugocracy” in the world. Connect the dots.

>>>> Re: countries you’ve listed. I’ve heard this rap before. At times, we’ve been forced to ally with a lesser evil to fight a greater evil and short iof going to war ourselves, there’s no getting around it. However, compared to the communist horrors (left-wing dictatorships) that usually ousted the right-wing despots, we’re still far ahead in compassion and goodwill than our enemies.

>>>> The real America can’t compete with the false utopian ideals of the left, but then, no nation could.

Is the reason 5-6 million people died in Korea and Vietnam died during our wars there because we “tried to protect them” Its the old adage that 'in order to save the village, first we had to destroy it'. It's now called the Fallouja syndrome...

>>>> Even though our mission there was unclear, the left was wrong about Vietnam. The leftist media lied continuously about the war effort, including that bullshit “quote” about the village, which never happened.

>>> Johnson was an incompetent and even Kennedy didn’t know what he was doing in Vietnam or how to fight it (he didn’t live long enough to have a change of heart).

>>> We fought valiantly and with honor to protect South Vietnam from the communists. As the 8 nations that fell to communism during the 70s confirmed, we were right to do so. When we pulled out of ‘Nam, communist scum committed genocide in both Cambodia and Vietnam herself.

>>>> Now the left speaks of “imperialist America” in Iraq when the cowardly terrorists are targeting ***their fellow Iraqis*** and their new, freely elected government.

Take off the blinders man!! It’s not a flawed foreign policy, its murder!! And communists murder too.. so don’t even go there.

>>>> Greater evil or lesser evil, you must choose. Welcome to the real world.

Holden: Have you ever noticed the more successful races give only a token nod to their old heritage and fully embrace being plain Americans? Asians now have higher incomes than comparable Whites, but you don’t see Asians tying their usefulness as productive citizens with murals. Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe the measure of success is not only quantified through monetary compensation. Being able to create a work of art mean something!!

>>> Not when the ‘art’ makes a scapegoat out of other races, or blames the living American generation for the sins of the past no one can do anything about.

Is life all about money? I hope not, since I have very little of it myself. But those ethnic groups that embrace Americanism (Filipinos, Indians, Cubans, and Hispanics to name some) learn the English language and honor the wisdom of the Founding Fathers seem to do better.

They are loyal to America whether in peace or war, and their hard work means they are less dependent on government (our) dollars. Quite the opposite from Chinese and Mexican illegals, the loyal Americans (loyal to Principles, not government) contribute more dollars than they take. Most Hispanics are fine but the balkanized minorities, particularly in socialist crapholes like California, have drained the welfare state. Enough is enough.

But did you ever consider that maybe it actually WAS better before THEY came…

>>> Holden : Nope.

Of course you didn’t. I knew the answer to that question before I even asked it. Strip malls, the paving of the earth, unprecedented consumerism, 3 car families, $6,000,000 in consumer credit card debt, chemical laden fast food, a war that won’t end in our lifetime, the inability to think back even ONE GENERATION, white people fleeing the state… I’m sure you would agree that that is just about the pinnacle of human existence and that there is no better world possible.

>>> I don’t wish to take away from your criticisms; all are valid to some degree. But most of the problems you mention are the problems of free choice, free markets, free will and the necessary fights required to keep the freedoms alive that make it all possible.

>>> The irony of the X-treme left is that, for the most part, it despises religion, the very thing that invites contemplation of oneself, tempers runaway consumerism and encourages living a charitable and purposeful life.

>>> (Also, there’s a question I’ve asked repeatedly and no leftist yet will offer an answer: since America is a free society, why not go and start your own commune? If communism or socialism (or anarchism) is the Answer, why not pool your resources and live as collectivists)?

>>> We live in an unprecedented era of medical breakthroughs, instantaneous communication and Paris Hilton. In my daily routine I am probably as disgusted by a lot of the shit I see around me as you are. It actually pisses me off that **I** have to defend all the good that America has done for the world continually.

>>> I don’t wish to sound condescending but it can’t be helped: for society to survive, someone has to be the adult and take responsibility, for better or worse. The left makes no such demands on its followers.

>>> Your way of thinking is known as “American Exceptionalism”. It’s the idea that Americans can do no wrong (If we’re start a war we must be the good guys) and that Americans operate outside the known paradigm for human interaction and existence.

>>> My short answer is, “Pick a better country.” A slightly longer response is, while there are many that shout, “My country, right or wrong” there are many more folks that understand America is not utopia and was never meant to be. With our First Amendment, we have been one of the most honest nations in confronting our faults. Far from being outside humanity, it’s usually America who ends up fighting for individual rights, human dignity and freedom around the globe. And usually we have to go it alone, because most of the rest of the world, run by despots or bureaucrats, stinks.

>>> How come a “s---hole like Cuba can give health care to all its people and the “greatest country in the world” can’t.

>>>> Cuba the country was beautiful; communism has destroyed it. I don’t think you understand what life is like for the average Cuban citizen: it is one of abject poverty for probably 90% of the population, with shortages of the most basic necessities. The average Cuban has no freedom of speech and many religious Cubans are thrown in jail for that reason only.

>>> Cuba's communist elites, of course, receive great medical care...it's the rest of the population’s health care that's dismal. Granted, pre-Castro life under Batista wasn’t perfect, but most Cubans were doing OK.

>>> Now Cuba is a ruin, with thousands in prison whose only crime was speaking out against Castro (speaking of which, that piece of shit who “despises wealth” is estimated to be worth $300 million).

>>> When Castro croaks and regular Cubans may once again come forth and speak the truth, I expect to see a literal library of crimes and atrocities committed by the Cuban communist government revealed to the world.

>>> And I further predict American journaleftists—flat earthers to the end—will deny all of it.

It'll be a happy day when Elian Gonzalez and other Cubans are finally liberated from the Castro regime.

johnk,

you're wrong about the White/Asian income stats, but I'll call it a "tie."

The leftist "philosophy" is based on Whitey always being the oppressor and any time a minority is more successful at something in America--which is often--the left simply doesn't mention it.

Nowadays every race has a small contingent of self-appointed leaders. Nothing new there. It would be nice if these shit disturbers were mocked more for being the huslters they really are instead of beng taken seriously.

America is enriched by having many cultures when "E Pluribus Unum" is honored.

The 'reek-on-keesters' and others, far from being stewards of their cultural roots, seek to convert America into a Mexiclone of poverty and ignorance inexplicable since they ran away from that shit in the first place.

I don't know why so many leftists want to see America turned into the Balkans, and I don't care.

We'll hang together or hang separately...I just hate to be right if we're BOTH on the gallows.

nope, sorry..
you are still lying.
there is no history for the anuhuic
and none of the tribes you name recognize your claims.
You still lie when you try to claim any tribe here in the US.
its a typical move of you wanna-be's.
.."uh, yeah, i'm aztec.."
(or name any tribe not immediately in the zone, quickly!)
there are no supporters of your bs.
and you just plain look dumb, standing around waving your mexiKKKan flag, saying you are fighting for "your" land.

a typical COLONIALIST move:
claim a tribe that cannot defend itself.
or claim it far enough away from them so that they cannot object.
for real, go back and fix mexiKKKo first, then maybe I'll consider it.
IF its so damn "indigenous" as you claim...
the REAL zapitistas will have your head on a machete for attempting to exploit OUR history like that.

nope, sorry..
you are still lying.
there is no history for the anuhuic
and none of the tribes you name recognize your claims.
You still lie when you try to claim any tribe here in the US.
its a typical move of you wanna-be's.
.."uh, yeah, i'm aztec.."
(or name any tribe not immediately in the zone, quickly!)
there are no supporters of your bs.
and you just plain look dumb, standing around waving your mexiKKKan flag, saying you are fighting for "your" land.

a typical COLONIALIST move:
claim a tribe that cannot defend itself.
or claim it far enough away from them so that they cannot object.
for real, go back and fix mexiKKKo first, then maybe I'll consider it.
IF its so damn "indigenous" as you claim...
the REAL zapitistas will have your head on a machete for attempting to exploit OUR history like that.
ps.
like your side said at baldwim park
"go back to europe"
lol

Sorry you feel that way.

It still doesn't change the fact that this is Aztlan.

Put your madness to rest and go in Peace.

sure thing chumply..
no need to be sorry though.

"...does not change the fact..."
lol! what fact? that you are a fibber?
or perhaps just deluded?
no matter, just get some education. move beyond the rhetoric of the "reconquista"...
learn to appreciate the struggle of the Indigenous Peoples.
unite with us, if you are ready to give up your illusions.
(which would be good, because they dont belong to you)
You or your parents or abuelas came to this country for a REASON, to have a better life...
dont throw that oppertunity away.

America is still the best deal in the whole world.
And you better believe its worth DEFENDING.
aho,all my realtions....

I'm tired of this fake ass indigenous poseur trying to school a Chicano. I'm Mescalero Apache, Mexican, and Peruvian myself and I can smell a pseudo-red with less insight and less blood than Ward Churchill (who is one bad-ass mixed Anglo-Indian for my money).

Native people in North America, Central and Southern America are all connected in some way as Natives to this hemisphere. Some natives have caved-in to the kind of racial thinking and nationalist mumbo-jumbo that they accuse Mexican nationalists of. Some natives have sold out to the imperialism war veterans community. That's why you go to some pow wows and see more U.S. flags and confused native vets (can't always blame people who suffer under poverty and the economic draft, but geronimo would have no party with a sell-out indian in a cavalry uniform).

You can't separate Comanches and Apaches from people from the South. Sure, the Aztec empire developed differently with major problems compared to the indigenous nations of the north, but lets not fall into provincialism and petty bitching over whose land belongs to who. If your roots are red and native to this hemisphere its yours (unlike the Europeans who came later).

And by the way, a real indian wouldn't call this place America--that's what the Euros called it and Latinos have appropriated the term to describe all of the Western hemisphere, not just the U.S. This was known as Anahuac, Turtle Island, or other specific
names that tribes gave to the source of their subsistence.

The Minutemen, SOS, Mexican nationalists, and the confused Native Americans (like those idiotic Navajos who are so christianized they're against gay marriage now) all need to get a clue.

This nation was red once, and it will be again (and a little brown, black, and white shading doesn't hurt).

" This nation was red once, and it will be again"

You don't actually believe that do you?

No offense, but your culture hasn't exactly set the woods on fire yet.

I certainly do not recall saying the MMP or SOS, or ANYBODY lied! So, please don't put words in my mouth. I COULD turn that same thing back at YOU!!
Ok, so you don't want to stop terrorists, fine. We will keep doing what we are doing, for the benefit of this country.
Too bad, we all seem to agree on several things, like NAFTA, FTAA, CAFTA and the SOA! Oh, ya...george too.

The below is some hate mail sent to a true American hero, Mr. Gilchrist, Minuteman founder. Notice how this girl can't even write. [And we’re called racists when we point out that the public schools are a mess and recent immigrants cannot read or write at the level they should be at.] She's so dumb she thinks everything is like IM. Well, this dumbass will not be able to get a job if this is the best she can do.

Oh no - there are no racists over here at Indymedia!. We socialists stand for economic and racial harmony and justice. WHAT BULLSH*T! There's some massive racism underlying so many of you so-called "progressives" and ironically you're the first to call everyone else racists. Guess that makes you giant hypocrites as well. The below speaks for itself.

Come on 1Person-HalfABrain, Poncho, Freddy old-timer, KFC -- just ignore the painful truths and keep telling yourselves that your side is not racist.

----- Original Message -----
From: Daniela Ortiz
To: Century21Minuteman
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: why dont u take ur white asses 2 a different place u bitches!

u really wanna know whos a disgrace 2 every1!?!? white people r! u guys think ur so good and better than any1else! guess wat u white people r good at! u guys r good at suckin diks and ur prostitudes tds! u guys r a disgrace to humanity and the rest of the world! this land belongs 2 us mexicans and u guys just wanna take over it! u guys r starting a war that u guys asked 4!

2:minueman/women/white bitches! from:a angel , me wish_bear_11!

Seems that our dear friend, Freddy Rice, is obsessed with Scientologists. Was there some cult-inspired child abuse in your past, Fred?

CHECK THESE OUT: Fredric Rice's most recent postings reflect an imagined viciousness - http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/fr2.htm

Freddy's Own Site: http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/Fredric_L_Rice_Sitemap.html

You are a nut, Fred. Sure the Scientologists are nuts, but so are you. Why are you so obsessed with them? Most people just laugh them off and go about their business. Not you. What gives?

80% of Americans, legal Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Black Americans and White Americans want all illegal immigrants deported.

More than 200,000,000 Americans want you criminals out of our country.

Now, all your little demonstrations mean nothing.

If you actually think your little group of people can win against 200,000,000 angry Americans, you are an idiot.

Now these 200,000,000 angry Americans are not just angry at you illegal Mexican invaders. We want to stomp your asses, but we want to do more to the white American traitors who hire you. All traitor American government officials, are even more hated.

See, you have no clue to the rage we actually feel. We were taught, unlike you to restrain ourselves. We were taught, unlike you to act like civilized human beings. We were taught, unlike you to OBEY THE RULE OF LAW.

We were taught to save our energies for the real fight. The fight that is actually going to win this war.

Baldwin Park, is just a little symbol of what is to come.

Baldwin Park, is just a little dust speck of what is happening all over the country.

REMEMBER, 200,000,000 MILLION ANGRY BETRAYED AMERICANS.

Baldwin Park is a nest of illegal Mexican invaders.

It does not matter what happens at Baldwin Park.

What matters is what is happening all across America.

We are just waiting for the ultimate moment. The ultimate moment to unleash this fury of hate and rage.
This hate and rage we have been caring around since the last great betrayal. That betrayal was, the amnesty of 1986.

WE WILL NEVER FORGET!!!!!!!

YOU ARE SUCH SILLY LITTLE PEOPLE!!!!!

Good, I will join him and SOS.

I don't know where you are pulling your numbers from, but just because FOX news supports the MMP, does not mean all the people in the US do. You are crazy! I have talked with people all over the country about this, and where there is SOME support for immigration reform, you are nuts to think it is even half of our country, and out of the half that MAY be supportive, two-thirds of those are on the fence about immigration, but do NOT want to go after individual people the way you do. Yes ‘YOU’ are angry, and your fellow terrorist vigilantes are ALSO angry, but like the militia's from McVeigh predicted a civil war when people would raise up against the government that attacked Waco, the people in your militia are living in a dream world. Go back to cleaning your M-16 and dreaming up ways to recruit the world for the up and coming race war, because in the end you are a racial fringe group that will do a little damage, and then the people will call you the evil scum you are. 200,000,000 hehe you make me laugh....

"We are just waiting for the ultimate moment. The ultimate moment to unleash this fury of hate and rage."

You honestly want to say that you represent the average American? Do you really think the average American is sitting around waiting for the perfect moment to start the war? Do you honestly think that the average American could event TELL TO what happened in 1986? You are a moron, and a dangerous one at that. Personally I wish the government would just pick you up now and put that needle in your arm BEFORE you go out and blow something up. Unfortunately though, in a free country, we have to wait till you reach your boiling point BEFORE the people can seek justice. But you are a terrorist, and I suspect you are radical even in YOUR OWN circle of fringe elements. Wouldn’t be surprised if you were a member of that Stromfront Group.

The average American IS NOT, IS NOT even concerned with this issue and if they do have an opinion one way or the other they are too preoccupied with a million and one distractions to actually do anything .

The average American is watching televison, shopping, replacing real friends with e-friends, allowing their home to be turned into retail space via the internet, playing video games, eating fast food, paying the minimum balance on their credit cards, saving $$ for rims and speakers, comparing I-Pods, waiting in lines and becoming less and less human.

Let's reclaim our humanity and stop hating each other...

"...200,000,000 angry Americans..."


...whaddaya got 200,000,000 mice in your pocket?

They barely has 20 in BP on May 14...

I do not own an M-16 or any sort of gun. Infact, I have no clue what an M-16 is. Unless, it is that machine gun that was used in the Vietnam War. Do they even call them machine guns?

Never have committed any act of violence.

Never plan too, until I am attacked.

Guess what!!!! America is being attacked.

We will unleash our hate and rage.

Americans do know and care about the treasonous amnesty of 1986.

We will unleash our hate and rage, legally.

You do not have to blow something up to get justice.

Just because I am full of hate and rage, does not mean I am an uncontrolled psychopath.

Hate and rage, can be a very effective tool to get someone motivated.

We are going to unleash our hate and rage, legally.

We are going to make sure, no more amnesties.

We are going to make sure, each and every single illegal Mexican invader is deported.

I have stated as before, we are the intelligent non-violent ones.

As soon as I say hate and rage, you think violence.

It is normal to be full of hate and rage, when one is being discriminated against.

I am a law-abiding American, who has paid my dues and have always OBEYED THE RULE OF LAW.

I have busted my ass, working the majority of jobs you morons, keep saying we Americans will not do.

I have never had anyone make it easy for me.

To hear Mexicans whine, about how hard they have it, makes me sick.

Mexicans whine, they whine and they whine.

I have had it extremely hard. Life has been a bitch for me. That has never given me the right to break the law.

You get off your ass, and you make it better, but you do it legally. YOU DO NOT INVADE ANOTHER COUNTRY AND BREAK THEIR LAWS.

Most Americans, have had it just as hard as I have, and no one gives a care.

For you criminal Mexican invaders, to come here with absolute no respect for us, is ignorant.

No law-abiding American is going to feel sorry for a bunch of criminals. Get a brain.

Most of our hate and rage, is against our traitorous government. Who, by the way, is mostly white.

I am white. What do we hate. We hate anyone, who thinks they should be given special treatment over everyone else. Illegal Mexicans think that they should be allowed to continue to break our laws. They think they should not be punished, but the rest of us are.

I am going to make sure, you are punished. Welcome to EQUALITY.

Nope. If you control for factors, Asians make less than whites.

Asian *families* make more than White families on average, but, there are a lot of factors that play into this... like the fact that most Asians live in California and New York, which are the most expensive places in the world. They (we) also cram into houses a little more tightly, and there's an adult child at home who works, and spends his or her money on a lowered Honda.

Seriously -- how many cases of Asian nepotism do people experience, compared to White nepotism. Life reflects stats here, and there's still more white favortism in America. They've been at it longer.

Also, most Whites think that Asians are rich because they aren't living in some apartment building in Long Beach, or in my area, where there are hella many poor Asian people. They're out back behind the store with the Mexicanos.

That's not to say there aren't a lot of rich Asians. Our immigration laws practically guarantee that. The "millionaire clause" was like the key that opened the door to investment from Taiwan and Hong Kong. Before the 1960s, the immigration laws basically cut off all legal working class migration from Asia, for around 70 years.

This is the lead-in of a recent New York Times article:

“Black and Asian women with bachelor's degrees earn slightly more than similarly educated white women, and white men with four-year degrees make more than anyone else.”

But this is all beside the point. There’s an obvious double standard at work here. When Whites make more money and generally do better than so-called minorities, it’s blamed on ‘racism’ and ‘nepotism.’

But when the minorities do better than their White counterparts, as in Black and Asian women making more money than White women, the left has no answer.

>>> Or maybe currently, Asians value education more than Whites and their children simply study harder.

"Seriously -- how many cases of Asian nepotism do people experience, compared to White nepotism. Life reflects stats here, and there's still more white favortism in America. They've been at it longer. "

>>>> I can’t imagine what bearing this has on an individual’s chances to succeed in American society. It sounds like more playing the victim.

"Also, most Whites think that Asians are rich because they aren't living in some apartment building in Long Beach, or in my area, where there are hella many poor Asian people. They're out back behind the store with the Mexicanos."

>>>> There are poor of all races...so what? There are casualties of capitalism all around, but their numbers are small compared to the victims of communism, a truly evil system.

Isn't that the same rhetoric that Race Supremacists make - "We have the guts to say what 200 million Americans are thinking"

We know who you are. You can't fool us. You lost the hoods and hid the axis but you're the same terrorists that we've been fighting since 1492.

I have never issued insults nor used derogatory words against any of you, yet every word that issues from your mouth is vehemently spat out - this tells us what kind of people you really are.

Put away your madness and go in peace.

LOL!
pacuko gots his KKK hood on,
cept its colored: green red and WHITE( like his origen)

apache is a conquered little fool.
why dont you bring out you mexiKKKan flag too?
and don't forget to wear a dog collar and let the
colnialist pacuko lead you onwards
letting you bark out :
" we didnt cross the borders, the borders crossed us!!"
" I am a colonized brainwashed idiot Fightting for my colonial masters in mexiKKKo !!!!!"
" i am a self hating conqered wanna-be !!!"

like I said.
WE are not mexiKKKans ,
nor do we OWE any alllegience to mexiKKKo
America belongs to the NATIVE AMERICAN
if you feel so strongly about mexiKKKo
go back.

If you are a Native, this is your HOME.
( if you can, tell me why any self-respecting
Aborignal Indigenous Person would fight for the
colonial Indigenous-Hating mexiKKKo)
America forvever, mexiKKKo never

this is MY LAND, and why would I give into some wierd concept like anuhuic?
something created by liars??
( oh, yeah...theres no agenda for non-claimant non-indigenous non-Native _europeans(xicano.mexiKKKan/spanish)_ to attempt the re-conquest of lands that WERE NEVER THEIRS TO BEGIN WITH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
idiots.
c/s

I see you're still under the influence of colonialism.

If you knew anything about Turtle Island, you'd know that we are Indigenous and that our origins are here in Aztlan.

After the USA occupation of Aztlan many nations became extinct. Not one nation became extinct under the Mexican and Spanish occupation of Aztlan.

Those brown faces that you see opposing the racists at the demonstrations are descendent of the great Uto-Aztecan Nations - which you are probably a part of.

I am beginning to think that you are not native at all, you should already know this.

yawwwnnnn!

pakuko, give it up,
there is no history for your anuhioc

the mexicans are not indigenous

and although there are INDIGENOUS PEOPLES in present day mexiKKKo, they are here as a result of their SURVIVAL as NATIVE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES.

not as mexiKKKans.

ask any true TRIBAL PERSON if they feel like mexiKKKo represents their interests......

you have absoulutely NO idea what it means to be an INDIGENOUS PERSON.

all you can stutter about is your fantasy ideas of a "never was" that is not held by ANY INDIGENOUS GROUP or PEOPLE.
you are the ONLY one pushing your COLONIALIST MANIFESTO, its exactly like the COLONIALIST "MANIFEST DESTINY " of the Northern EUROPEANS of the "historic" period of "the new world conquests"

ONLY now its in the DISGUISE of fake "xicano" rip-offs...

tell me again how mexiKKKo didnt exterminate tribes???
the mexiKKKan/spanish/european has always tried ETHNOCIDE and GENOCIDE against OUR indigenous people here in all of the Americas.
even to this DAY!.
the only difference is that in mexiKKKo its never Mentioned and Always covered up to keep YOUR people, the white/mexiKKKan/spanish/eurocentric complex in POWER.

I know my TRIBAL HISTORY. mexiKKKo is absoulutly no change from the spanish, and why would it ???
its the SAME people, just a different name, just as today, you now attempt to CO-OPT my INDIGENOUS cultures for your POLITICAL GRANDSTANDING.
mexiKKKo says " genocide???ethnocide??? NEVER HAPPENED !! "
and then were all just supposed believe them.
yeah, right.

pacuco, I KNOW what you are..
and so does everyone else.
your lies are at an end buddyboy.
COLONIALISM is fresh and invigorated in your cause.
the Empreror wears no clothes..(uh, 'your aztlan empreror and his minions here inthe good old USA)
c/s

Anahuac is the true name of what is now called Mexico and part of the USA. That is a historical and archeological fact.

What is the true name, or names, of the USA?

Aztlan is one of the names - 20 million indigenous people say so.

Ca Nat if you are so in tune with being Native, where is Turtle Island?

>“Black and Asian women with bachelor's degrees earn slightly more than similarly educated white women, and white men with four-year degrees make more than anyone else.”

>But this is all beside the point. There’s an obvious double standard at work here. When Whites make more money and generally do better than so-called minorities, it’s blamed on ‘racism’ and ‘nepotism.’

>But when the minorities do better than their White counterparts, as in Black and Asian women making more money than White women, the left has no answer.

It could be racism or nepotism as well.

More likely, though, it's due to the fact that women tend to break away and start their own businesses more than anyone else. That's just my guess.

A statistic is not an explanation.

A statistic is like your body temperature. If it's high, it could be because you've got an infection. It could also be that you've exercised, and you're warm.

The statistic is compensation. The explanation is nepotism.

My reason is that this is how it's always been, and continues to be.

>Or maybe currently, Asians value education more than Whites and their children simply study harder.

There's definitely a cultural trend in effect. I believe it's due to immigration laws that favor the already-affluent over others. That's why there are so many Asian immigrants with college degrees (working regular jobs now), while, back in Asia, many people are poor.

>>"Seriously -- how many cases of Asian nepotism do people experience, compared to White nepotism. Life reflects stats here, and there's still more white favortism in America. They've been at it longer. "

>I can’t imagine what bearing this has on an individual’s chances to succeed in American society. It sounds like more playing the victim.

I just heard a story on NPR that was about a study (by the Pew center, I think) that said social mobility in America is not increasing. It basically said that the kids of rich or affluent people tend not to fall in class.

Likewise, the children of immigrants tend to rise in class, but slowly. There are exceptions to the rule, but, the rule stands.

Social mobility exists, but, it's no longer increasing, as it used to during the postwar era (and, I imagine, before it as well). I hope it's not a harbinger of a time when social mobility decreases, and we see greater social division.

But the point here -- nepotism happens. It's the mechanism that the wealthy use to prevent their kids from falling in class. The kids are given companies, or shares of a company. They are handed the family business. They are given more opportunities to get jobs at their parents' company. They get to go to college, without working. They get to go to a high school that will get them into college.

This nepotism and social advantage exists within any group of people. I think Asians practice it a lot. I just said that White people in America have been doing it longer, and it is reflected in the numbers.

I have not proven a causal relationship here, but, this is my theory. It's the old boys network.

Also, studying hard only gets your foot in the door. It shows you can play the school game. Once you're in, you have to prove yourself in other ways.

----------------------

Just as an aside, there is the whole issue of how white people got their initial wealth, and why it's so widespread compared to wealth in other countries. (America actually is very econonomically democratic, compared to the rest of the world.)

I've read articles that attribute this to the Homestead Act. That was a land reform law that distributed some of the property from the US government to the people. It had a lot of the Jeffersonian agrarian ideology in it. (Interestingly enough, land reform is a cornerstone of communist revolutionary platforms.)

The unspoken history of the Homestead Act was that the settlers were put there to help keep out the native American tribes. (To prevent free movement of people to whom "private property" was against the natural order.)

http://www.trailtribes.org/fortclatsop/shrinking-land-base.htm
http://www.nps.gov/home/homestead_act.html
http://users.rcn.com/deeds/homestead.htm
http://www.ok-history.mus.ok.us/enc/homesteadact.htm

Reponse to Holden, re Wealth

>“Black and Asian women with bachelor's degrees earn slightly more than similarly educated white women, and white men with four-year degrees make more than anyone else.
”
>But this is all beside the point. There’s an obvious double standard at work here. When Whites make more money and generally do better than so-called minorities, it’s blamed on ‘racism’ and ‘nepotism.’

>But when the minorities do better than their White counterparts, as in Black and Asian women making more money than White women, the left has no answer.
It could be racism or nepotism as well.

>>>> You’re the first leftist I’ve heard of to suggest such a thing, or even have a suggestion Were you to “go public” it’s probable you would be ostracized by the left. Of course, it is very telling that the only way a leftist can believe one group excels more than another in a particular field is either through “racism or nepotism.”

More likely, though, it's due to the fact that women tend to break away and start their own businesses more than anyone else. That's just my guess.

>>>> But how can they? When women are a helpless minority who can’t make it without government “help?”

Or maybe currently, Asians value education more than Whites and their children simply study harder.
There's definitely a cultural trend in effect. I believe it's due to immigration laws that favor the already-affluent over others. That's why there are so many Asian immigrants with college degrees (working regular jobs now), while, back in Asia, many people are poor.

>>"Seriously -- how many cases of Asian nepotism do people experience, compared to White nepotism. Life reflects stats here, and there's still more white favortism in America. They've been at it longer. "

>I can’t imagine what bearing this has on an individual’s chances to succeed in American society. It sounds like more playing the victim.

I just heard a story on NPR that was about a study (by the Pew center, I think) that said social mobility in America is not increasing. It basically said that the kids of rich or affluent people tend not to fall in class.

>>> And yet the Pew Center, nor anyone on the left, can find a relationship between the disincentive to work harder created by confiscatory taxation and the reduction of opportunities.

Social mobility exists, but, it's no longer increasing, as it used to during the postwar era (and, I imagine, before it as well). I hope it's not a harbinger of a time when social mobility decreases, and we see greater social division.
But the point here -- nepotism happens. It's the mechanism that the wealthy use to prevent their kids from falling in class. The kids are given companies, or shares of a company. They are handed the family business. They are given more opportunities to get jobs at their parents' company. They get to go to college, without working. They get to go to a high school that will get them into college.
This nepotism and social advantage exists within any group of people. I think Asians practice it a lot. I just said that White people in America have been doing it longer, and it is reflected in the numbers.

I have not proven a causal relationship here, but, this is my theory. It's the old boys network.

Also, studying hard only gets your foot in the door. It shows you can play the school game. Once you're in, you have to prove yourself in other ways.

>>> Again, sounds like nepotism (or racism) is being used as an excuse **not** to study and work hard. Do you see the pattern here? The left needs victims who are dependent on Big Government. Without the victim’s mentality to buoy it, the left is building its theories on quicksand.

----------------------

Just as an aside, there is the whole issue of how white people got their initial wealth, and why it's so widespread compared to wealth in other countries. (America actually is very econonomically democratic, compared to the rest of the world.)

>>>> You may as well ask why the Chinese in China seem to have an advantage over Non-Chinese.

The unspoken history of the Homestead Act was that the
settlers were put there to help keep out the native American tribes. (To prevent free movement of people to whom "private property" was against the natural order.)

>>>> Once again, what bearing does this have on America in 2005? Is this supposed to be some kind of excuse not to work hard? Read? Learn?

>>> This America-bashing has got to stop.

The Akaka Bill Could Give Birth to the Nation of Aztlan.

Hawaii is in the process of passing a bill that will create a new sovereign nation within the borders
of the United States.

The criterion is based on “GENETICS” or traceable lineage of anyone who qualifies according to the established definitions as “Hawaiian.” This bill will allow Hawaiians to lay a claim to the ceded lands of Hawaii.

That will set the precedent for Mexicans who were forced off their land in 1848 to have a similar claim to Aztlan.

Plus the USDA is offering loans to Mexican Nationals to buy plots of Aztlan: Source

Neoliberalism caused the situation SOS is against. If they would pull their heads out of their rears for two seconds, maybe they would see this. Here is an older speech from the great Marco that speaks of our unity and our dedication to make a livable world....
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http://www.ezln.org/documentos/1996/19960803.en.htm

Words of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation in the closing act of the First Intercontinental Encounter for Humanity and Against Neoliberalism (read by Subcomandante Insurgente Marcos).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Through my voice speaks the voice of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation.
*La Realidad (Reality), Planet Earth.
August 3rd, 1996.

Brothers and sisters of the whole world: Brothers and sisters of Africa, America, Asia, Europe, and Oceania: Brothers and sisters attending the First Intercontinental Encounter for Humanity and Against Neoliberalism: Welcome to the Zapatista R/reality. Welcome to this territory in struggle for humanity. Welcome to this territory in rebellion against neoliberalism.

The Zapatistas greet all who attended this encounter. Here, in the mountains of the Mexican Southeast, when a collectivity greets whoever comes with good words, it is applauded. We ask that everyone greet each other and that everyone greet the delegations from: Italy, Brazil, Great Britain, Paraguay, Chile, Filippines, Germany, Peru, Argentina, Austria, Uruguay, Guatemala, Belgium, Venezuela, Iran, Denmark, Nicaragua, Zaire, France, Haiti, Ecuador, Greece, Japan, Kurdistan, Ireland, Costa Rica, Cuba, Sweden, The Netherlands, South Africa, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, The United States, The Basque Country, Turkey, Canada, Puerto Rico, Bolivia, Australia, Mauritania, Mexico ["Norway!" and "Colombia!" were called out from the crowd].

Welcome, all men, women, children, and elders from the five continents who have responded to the invitation of the Zapatista indigenous to search for hope for humanity, against neoliberalism.

Brothers and sisters:

When this dream that today awakens in R/reality began to be dreamed by us, we thought it would be a failure. We thought that, maybe, we could gather here a few dozen persons from several countries. We were wrong. As always we were wrong. It wasn't a few dozen, but thousands of human beings, those who came from the five continents to find themselves in R/reality at the close of the twentieth century.

The word born within these mountains, these Zapatista mountains, found ears that gave it cover, that cared for and launched it anew, so that it might arrive far away and circle the world. The crazy insanity of a convocation of the five continents to reflect critically on our past, our present, and our future, found that it wasn't alone in its delirium, and soon insanities from the whole planet began to work on bringing the dream to rest in Reality, to bathe it in the mud, grow it under the rain, moisten it under the sun, speak it with the other, go drawing it, giving it form and body.

As to what happened in these days, much will be written later. Today we can say that we are certain of at least one thing. A dream dreamed in the five continents can come to make itself real in R/reality. Who now will be able to tell us that dreaming is lovely but futile? Who now will be able to argue that dreams, however many the dreamers, cannot become a reality?

How is joy dreamed in Africa? What marvels walk in the European dream? How many tomorrows does the dream enclose in Asia? To what music does the American dream dance? How does the heart speak that dreams in Oceania?

To whom does it matter how and what we dream here or in any part of the world? Who are they who dare to convene with their dream all the dreams of the world? What's happening in the mountains of the Mexican Southeast that finds echo and mirror in the streets of Europe, suburbs of Asia, rural areas of America, townships of Africa, and houses of Oceania? What's happening with the peoples of these five continents that, so we are all told, only encountered each other to make war or compete? Wasn't this turn of the century synonymous with despair, bitterness, and cynicism? From where and how did all these dreams arrive at R/reality?

May Europe speak and recount the long bridge of its gaze that crossed the Atlantic and history in order to rediscover itself in R/reality.

May Asia speak and explain the gigantic leap of its heart to arrive and beat in R/reality. May Africa speak and describe the lengthy sailing of its restless image to come to reflect upon itself in R/reality. May Oceania speak and tell of the multiple flight of its thought to go rebounding away until it rested in R/reality. May America speak and remember the increased feeling of its hope to arrive, remembering, to the point of renewing itself in R/reality.

May the five continents speak and everyone listen. May humanity suspend for a moment its silence of shame and anguish. May humanity speak. May humanity listen....

In the world of those who live in the Power and kill for the Power, the human being doesn't fit, there is no space for hope, no place for tomorrow. Slavery or death is the alternative that their world offers all worlds. The world of money, their world, governs from the stock exchanges. Speculation is today the principal source of enrichment and, at the same time, the best demonstration of the atrophy of the human being's capacity to work. Work is no longer necessary in order to produce wealth; now all that's needed is speculation.

Crimes and wars are carried out so that the global stock exchanges may be pillaged by one or another.

Meanwhile, millions of women, millions of youths, millions of indigenous, millions of homosexuals, millions of human beings of all races and colors only participate in the financial markets as a devalued currency worth always less and less, the currency of their blood making profits.

The globalization of markets is erasing borders for specula-tion and crime and multiplying them for human beings. Countries are obligated to erase their national borders when it comes to the circulation of money but to multiply their internal borders.

Neoliberalism doesn't turn countries into only one country, it turns each one of them into many countries.

The lie of unipolarity and internationalization turns itself into a nightmare of war, a fragmented war, again and again, so many times that nations are pulverized. In this world that the Power is globalizing in order to get around the obstacles to its war of conquest, national governments are turned into the military underlings of a new world war against humanity.

From the stupid career of nuclear armament, destined to annihilate humanity in one blow with nuclear weapons, it has gone to the absurd militarization of all aspects of the life of national societies, a militarization destined to annihilate humanity in many blows, in many places, and in many ways. What were formerly known as "national armies" are turning into simple units of a greater army, the one that neoliberalism arms and leads against humanity. The end of the so-called Cold War didn't stop the arming of the world, it only changed the model of this mortal merchandizing: weapons of all sizes and for all kinds of criminal tastes. More and more, not only are the so-called "institutional" armies armed, but also the armies that drug trafficking builds up to assure its empire. More or less rapidly, national societies are being militarized and the armies suposedly created to protect their borders from foreign enemies are turning their cannons and rifles around and aiming them inward.

It is not possible for neoliberalism to become the world's reality without the argument of death served up by institutional and private armies, without the gag served up by prisons, without the blows and assassinations served up by the military and police. National repression is the necessary premise for the globalization that neoliberalism imposes.

The more neoliberalism advances as a global system, the more numerous grow the weapons and the ranks of the armies and national police. The numbers of the imprisoned, the disappeared, and the assassinated in different countries also grows.

A world war: the most brutal, the most complete, the most universal, the most effective.

Each country, each city, each rural area, each house, each person, everything is a large or small battleground. On the one side is neoliberalism with all its repressive power and all its machinery of death; on the other side is the human being.

There are those who resign themselves to being one more number in the huge bolsa--pouch/purse/exchange--of Power. There are those who resign themselves to being slaves. He who is also master to other slaves cynically walks the slave's horizontal ladder. In exchange for the bad life and the crumbs that Power hands out, there are those who sell themselves, resign themselves, surrender themselves. In any part of the world, there are slaves who say they are happy being slaves. In any part of the world there are men and women who stop being human and take their place in the gigantic market that trades in diginities.

But there are those who do not resign themselves, there are those who decide to be uncomfortable, there are those who do not sell themselves, there are those who do not surrender themselves. There are, around the world, those who resist being annihilated in this war. There are those who decide to fight.

In any place in the world, anytime, any man or woman rebels to the point of tearing off the clothes that resignation has woven for them and that cynicism has dyed grey. Any man, any woman, of whatever color in whatever tongue, says and says to himself, to herself, "Enough already"--Ya Basta!

Enough already of lies. Enough already of crime. Enough already of death. "Enough already of war," any man, any woman, says and says to himself, to herself.

In whatever part of any of the five continents any man, any woman, eagerly resists the Power and constructs his own, her own, road that doesn't imply the loss of dignity and hope.

Any man or any woman decides to live and struggle for his part, her part, in history. No longer does the Power dictate his steps, her steps; no longer does the Power administer life and decide death.

Any man or any woman responds to death with life. And responds to the nightmare by dreaming and struggling against war, against neoliberalism, for humanity....

For struggling for a better world all of us are fenced in, threatened with death. The fence is reproduced globally. In every continent, every city, every rural area, every house, the Power's fence of war closes in on the rebels whom humanity always thanks.

But fences are broken. In every house, in every rural area, in every city, in every state, in every country, on every continent the rebels, that the history of humanity repeats along its entire course to assure itself of hope, struggle and the fence shakes.

The rebels search each other out. They walk towards one another. They find each other and together break other fences. In the rural areas and cities, in the states, in the nations, on the continents, the rebels begin to recognize themselves, to know themselves to be equal and different. They continue on their fatiguing walk, walking as it is now necessary to walk, that is to say, struggling....

A R/reality spoke to them then. Rebels from the five continents heard it and set off walking.

To arrive at the intercontinental R/reality, each one has had to make his own, her own, road. From the five arms of the star of the world, the step of men and women, whose dignified word searched for the place to be spoken and heard, has arrived at R/reality, the place of the encounter.

It was necessary to break through many fences to arrive to break through the fence around R/reality. There are different fences. In ours, one must get past the police, customs officials, tanks, cannons, trenches, planes, helicopters, rain, mud, insects. Each one of the rebels from the five continents has his own, her own, fence, own struggle, and a broken fence to add to the memory of other rebels.

So it was that this intercontinental encounter began. It was initiated on all the continents, in all the countries, in all the places where any man or woman began to say and say to themselves, "Enough already!"

Who can say in what precise locale, and at what exact hour and date this intercontinental encounter for humanity and against neoliberalism began? We don't know. But we do know who initiated it. All the rebels around the world started it. Here, we are only a small part of those rebels, it's true. But to all the diverse fences that all the rebels of the world break every day, you have added one more rupture, that of the fence around the Zapatista R/reality.

In order to achieve that, you had to struggle against your respective governments and then confront the "fence" of papers and procedures with which the Mexican government thought to detain you. You are all fighters, men and women who break through fences of all kinds. That's why you made it to R/reality. Maybe you can't yet see the greatness of your achievement, but we do see it.

That is why we want to ask your forgiveness for the stupidity of the Mexican government that, by means of its immigration agents, has done everything possible to impede your arrival at these Zapatista lands. These agents of idiocy-made-government believe that passports and permits are still necessary in order to speak and listen to dignity. We are sure that all of you will know how to comprehend why this imbecility believes that nationality divides human beings. We ask that you pardon them. After all, we have to thank the Mexican government that has reminded us that we are all different, even though it has done so with this poor exhibition. But we also have to thank the indigenous communities who received us these days, they who have reminded us that we are all equal.

That is why we, the Zapatistas, have proposed to struggle for a better government here in Mexico. We are struggling to have a government that is even a little intelligent and that understands that dignity doesn't know about passports, visas, and other absurdities. This is what we are about now, and we will surely achieve it.

But while this is going on, we ask in the name of the indigenous communities, when you pass the immigration checkpoints on your way out that you do us the favor of congratulating the Mexican government on the success it achieved with the fence put up against an indigenous rebel movement that, it is plainly evident, only has any influence in four municipalities of the southeastern Mexican state of Chiapas.

Some of the best rebels from the five continents arrived in the mountains of the Mexican Southeast. All of them brought their ideas, their hearts, their worlds. To find themselves among other ideas, other reasons, other worlds, for that they arrived at R/reality.

A world made of many worlds found itself these days in the mountains of the Mexican Southeast.

A world made of many worlds opened a space and established its right to be possible, raised the banner of being necessary, fastened to the middle of the earth's R/reality to announce a better future. A world of all the worlds that rebel and resist the Power, a world of all the worlds that inhabit this world opposing cynicism, a world that struggles for humanity and against neoliberalism. This was the world that we lived these days; this is the world that we found here....

This encounter doesn't end in R/reality. It just so happens that now it must search for a place to continue on.

But what next?

A new number in the useless enumeration of the numerous international orders?
A new scheme that calms and alleviates the anguish of a lack of recipes?

A global program for world revolution?

A theorization of Utopia so that it can continue to maintain a prudent distance from the reality that anguishes us?

An "organigram" that assures all of us a position, a task, a title, and no work?

The echo continues, the reflected image of the possible and forgotten: the possibility and necessity of speaking and listening.

Not the echo that peters out or the force that decreases after its highest apex.

Yes, the echo that breaks barriers and continues.

The echo of small distinction, the local and particular, reverberating in the echo of great distinction, the intercontinental and galactic.

The echo that recognizes the existence of the other and does not overpower or attempt to silence the other.

The echo that takes its place and speaks its own voice and speaks the voice of the other.

The echo that reproduces its own sound and opens itself to the sound of the other.

The echo of this rebel voice transforming itself and renewing itself in other voices.

An echo that turns itself into many voices, into a network of voices that, before the deafness of the Power, opts to speak to itself, knowing itself to be one and many, acknowledging itself to be equal in its desire to listen and be listened to, recognizing itself as different in the tonalities and levels of voices forming it.

A network of voices that resist the war that the Power wages on them.

A network of voices that not only speak, but also struggle and resist for humanity and agianst neoliberalism.

A network of voices that are born resisting, reproducing their resistance in other even quieter or lonelier voices.

A network that covers the five continents and helps to resist the death that the Power promises us.

The great pocket of voices, sounds that search for their place, fitting with others continues.

The great torn pocket, that keeps the best of itself and opens itself for what's better to be born and to grow continues.

The mirror-pocket of voices, the world in which sounds may be listened to separately, recognizing their specificity, the world in which sounds may include themselves in one great sound continues.

The reproduction of resistances, the "I am not resigned," the "I am a rebel" continues.

The world with the many worlds that the world needs continues.

Humanity, recognizing itself to be plural, different, inclusive, tolerant of itself, with hope continues.

The human and rebel voice, consulted on the five continents in order to become a network of voices and of resistances continues.

The voice of all the people we are, the voice that speaks this Second Declaration of Reality for Humanity and Against Neoliberalism continues.


Brothers and sisters of Africa, Asia, America, Europe, and Oceania:

Considering that we are:

Against the international order of death, against the globalization of war and armaments.
Against dictatorships, against authoritarianism, against repression.

Against the politics of economic liberalization, against hunger, against poverty, against robbery, against corruption.

Against patriarchy, against xenophobia, against discrimination, against racism, against crime, against the destruction of the environment, against militarism.

Against stupidity, against lies, against ignorance.

Against slavery, against intolerance, against injustice, against marginalization, against forgetfulness.

Against neoliberalism.

Considering that we are:
For the international order of hope, for a new, just, and dignified peace.
For a new politics, for democracy, for political liberties.

For justice, for life, and dignified work.

For civil society, for full rights for women in every aspect, for the respect of elders, youth, and children, for the defense and protection of the environment.

For intelligence, for culture, for education, for truth.

For liberty, for tolerance, for inclusion, for having memory.

For humanity.


We declare:
First. That we will make a collective network of all our particular struggles and resistances. An intercontinental network of resistance against neoliberalism, an intercontinental network of resistance for humanity.

This intercontinental network of resistance, recognizing differences and acknowledging similarities, will search to find itself with other resistances around the world. This interconti-nental network of resistance will be the medium in which distinct resistances may support one another. This intercontinental network of resistance is not an organizing structure; it doesn't have a central head or decision maker; it has no central command or hierarchies. We are the network, all of us who resist.

Second. That we will make a network of communication among all our struggles and resistances. An intercontinental network of alternative communication against neoliberalism, an intercontinental network of alternative communication for humanity.

This intercontinental network of alternative communication will search to weave the channels so that words may travel all the roads that resist. This intercontinental network of alternative communication will be the medium by which distinct resistances communicate with one another.

This intercontinental network of alternative communication is not an organizing structure, nor has a central head or decision maker, nor does it have a central command or hierarchies. We are the network, all of us who speak and listen.

This we declare:

To speak and to listen for humanity and against neoliberalism. To resist and struggle for humanity and against neoliberalism.

For the whole world: Democracy! Liberty! Justice! From whatever reality of whichever continent!

Brothers and sisters:

We do not propose that those of us who are present here sign this declaration and that this encounter end today.

We propose that the intercontinental encounter for humanity and against neoliberalism continue on every continent, in every country, in each rural area and city, in each house, school or workplace where human beings live who want a better world.

The indigenous communities have taught us that to resolve a problem, no matter how great it may be, it is always good to consult all of the people we are. That is why we propose that this declaration be distributed around the world and that a consultation be carried out, at least in all the countries in attendance, on the following question:

Do you agree to subscribe to this Second Declaration of La Realidad for Humanity and Against Neoliberalism?

We propose that this "Intercontinental Consultation for Humanity and Against Neoliberalism" be realized on the five continents during the first two weeks of December, 1996.

We propose that we organize this consultation in the same way that this encounter was organized, that all of us who attended and those who couldn't attend but who accompanied us from afar in this encounter, organize and carry out the consultation. We propose that we make use of all the possible and impossible media in order to consult with the greatest number of human beings on the five continents. The intercontinental consultation is part of the resistance we are organizing and one way of making contacts and encounters with other resistances. Part of a new way of doing political work in the world, that is what the intercontinental consultation wants to be.

Not only that. We also propose that we aleady call people to the Second Intercontinental Encounter for Humanity and Against Neoliberalism.

We propose that it be carried out in the second half of 1997 and that it be on the European continent. We propose that the exact date and place of the encuentro be defined by the brothers and sisters of Europe in a meeting they hold after this first encounter.

We all hope that there will be this second intercontinental encounter and that it be held, of course, on another continent. When this second encounter is held, we want to make it clear from this moment on that we will find the way to participate directly, wherever it is held.

Brothers and sisters:

We continue to be uncomfortable. What the theorists of neoliberalism tell us is false: that everything is under control, including everything that isn't under control.

We are not the escape valve for the rebellion that could destabilize neoliberalism. It is false that our rebel existence legitimates the Power.

The Power fears us. That is why it pursues us and fences us in. That is why it jails and kills us.

In R/reality, we are the possibility that it can be defeated and made to disappear.

Maybe there are not so many of us, but we are men and women who struggle for humanity, who struggle against neoliberalism.

We are men and women who struggle around the world.

We are men and women who want for the five continents:


Democracy!
Liberty!
Justice!

From the mountains of the Mexican Southeast.

The Indigenous Revolutionary Clandestine Committee--General Command of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation.

La Realidad (Reality), planet Earth, August, 1996.

Explain it. How does the chief in the sky's wife fall to the water and the animals find land for here validate you hypocrasy?

English please! What is your question?

Hey, I just found out that Telemundo will be coming to Baldwin Park. We need lots of signs in Spanish for the cameras. In case you're Espanol is a bit rusty, just bring signs with these slogans. My roommate help me figure these out:

¡No, usted no puede comprar a mi pequeña hermana para tan poco dinero!

Usted los gringos no puede bailar a la derecha y huelen divertidos.

¡No necesitamos una tarjeta verde! ¡Tomamos lo que deseamos, cuando lo deseamos!

Let's give these racists hell tomorrow.

You Minute Men need to stay out of California. You are outside aggitators distrubing the peacefulness of mind of many people. Take your racism back to Europe.