Subject: Minuteman founder Jim Gilchrist speaks in Garden Grove on
Wednesday, May 25th

=== PLEASE CIRCULATE WIDELY ===

I'm sending this message out to make people aware of
the fact that Jim Gilchrist, the founder of the
fascist "Minuteman Project", will be speaking at the
Garden Grove Women's Club on Wednesday, May 25th at
7:30 pm.

Gilchrist has been invited to speak there by the
California Coalition for Immigration Reform
(C.C.I.R.), one of the groups responsible for putting
the racist Proposition 187 on the California ballot in
1994.

I live a couple of miles away from the Garden Grove
Women's Club, and I know as a fact there is a fairly
long public sidewalk that surrounds the building which
houses it. It's also right next to a major street.

Although I'm not currently involved in organizing a
counterdemonstration, I think one definitely needs to
take place! We need to show our strong opposition to
racism, fascism, and xenophobia!

Sincerely,

Duane J. Roberts
duaneroberts92804@yahoo.com

The following is the a reproduction of the
announcement that was posted on the CCIR website:

http://www.ccir.net/MEETINGS/050525.html

CCIR is thrilled to invite you to our May meeting
where
we will honor our incredibly courageous member...

JIM GILCHRIST

...the founder of the internationally recognized and
totally successful MINUTEMAN PROJECT which literally
halted the "illegal alien invasion" of criminals and
smugglers in the Naco, AZ area! Please mark your
calendar and plan to meet, greet and hear this
American patriot's future plans to expand the
MinuteMan effort in other areas.

PLACE: Women's Club - 9501 Chapman Avenue at Gilbert,
Garden Grove, California
MEETING DATE: Wednesday, May 25, 2005
TIME: 7:30 P.M.
ADMISSION: Free (Members) -- Non-members: $5.00
MAP - DIRECTIONS

If even a 10th of the people that came out for Baldwin Hills show up for this, that guy will need a police escort to get in and out of that hall.

Idea: Dress up like neo-cons and buy a ticket to get in. It' s worth the five bucks just for a chance to rush the stage and grab the mic. :-)

Also they will have to sneak him in and out of the back. So be sure to picket the building on all sides. Not just the front.

Is the opposite of being "fascist", "racist" and a "neo-con", being someone who believes that we should have completely open borders and be willing to financially support, on every level, anyone who can make it over the US border into California?

Just wondering.

The battle against fascist, racists hate mongers is a never ending one. Hopefully there will be another large group of local community people to stand up and oppose this, just like we did ino Baldwin Park.

The rhetoric is familuray, though, isn't it?

"...we will honor our incredibly courageous member..."

And what's his "courage?" Spewing hatred and bigotry among the minds who are already poisoned. Why is it familiar? Remembner the Brown Shirts also being "courageous" in the 1920's and 1930's in Germany?

> Is the opposite of being "fascist", "racist" and a "
> neo-con", being someone who believes that we
> should have completely open borders and be willing
> to financially support, on every level, anyone who can
> make it over the US border into California?

The opposit ofracist fascism and bigotry is Democracy, equality, tolerance, civil rights, human rights, Constitutional rights. The opposite of Bush Republicanism is also.

Everyone is against illegal aliens flooding into their countries, whether it's the United States, Australia, Germany, Ireland... everyone oppose illegal virtual invasions. These racist bigots are using that common ground as a vehicle to spew their racist hatred and bigotry -- and, in the case of Baldwin Park, as a vehicle to deny freedom of speech, expression, and art.

Let's close our borders, absolutely, but let's not turn into a pack of KKK hate mongering Christian bigots while we do so.

Republinazis, quite frankly, are not welcome in civilized society. That they find acceptance among like-minded bigots doesn't detract from the fact that if they're not opposed, they grow and spread -- and we all remember what the spread of Fascism resulted in in the 1920's through 1940's, right?

I for one will be there. If there is a counter demonstration, I will go to it. Are there any plans in the works?

Can anyone translate this into spanish? If so, you can write the translation here sentence by sentence, and the author can alter the document and upload the spanish copy. Download, print, copy, and distrubite everywhere.

here's the translation of the flyer into spanish. hope we can get a bunch of folks out there and make the guy see our anger at his phony brand of anglo-fascism

Thanks Jordan, and yours looks great. The only reason the author wanted to re-do the original is because the graphic had some funny shadows. I told her that I would repost it for her.

> I for one will be there. If there is a counter
> demonstration, I will go to it. Are there any
> plans in the works?

I'm not aware of any though I suspect that a great many civil rights and human rights activists will stage a counter rally without organization. It's just a question of disseminating information about the threat and individuals will come out to oppose it.

There is a really good article about SWARM and the Minutemen at http://www.fagsaregay.com.

Compare and contrast real minutemen with America's immigrant-scapegoating beer belly brigade.

Minutemen: lawfully assembled American citizens demanding nothing more than the enforcement of the Constitution and immigration laws.

fallujah cowards: former members of saddam hussein's terror squads who tortured and murdered Iraqi citizens as well as unarmed contractors.

FALLUJAH DELENDA EST

You parrot the Pentagon's propaganda perfectly. Congratulations on your support of the Iraqi genocide!

Bring your green cards. Immigration will be there.
Nesicita traer tu tarjeta verde.

You parrot the Pentagon's propaganda perfectly. Congratulations on your support of the Iraqi genocide!

Don't congratulate me, by default YOU'RE the one who supports Iraqi genocide! YOU'RE the one who supports rape rooms and the gassing of Kurds! YOU'RE the one who supports "insurgents" sneaking in from Syria. And YOU'RE the one who supports the ragtag remnants of Saddam's terror squads.

If America wanted to commit "Iraqi genocide," we could've lob a few dozen nukes on them and been done with it.

(Why we haven't already nuked Berkeley is beyond me).

*******PLEASE POST WIDELY***************

There will be a protest of the appearance of the founder of the racist
vigilante organization the "Minutemen" on

Wednesday May 25 at 6:30pm

at the site of the appearance of Jim Gilchrist of the Minutemen at the

Woman's Club
9501 Chapman Ave.
Garden Grove, CA
(north of the 22 off Brookhurst at Gilbert)

FUPA - the Comite Pro Democracia de Mexico, Aztlan Mexica Nation /
Harmony Circle, Danza Cuatemoc and Mexicanos Unidos has determined to
be there.

The International Socialist Organization is also organizing.


Let's drive them back and out - just like we did in Baldwin Park.

No Peace - No Place for Racist Vigilantes!


The California Coalition for Immigration Reform (CCIR)is holding a
public meeting featuring Jim Gilchrist, founder of the extreme right
wing vigilante anti-immigrant Minuteman Project.

CCRI, which pushed Prop. 187 in 1994, is now seeking to build support
for a more open and brutal campaign of terror and intimidation against
Mexican, Salvadoran Guatemalan and other immiigrants, and against all
indigenous Spanish speaking peoples.

They're hoping to build momentum for actions by the Minutemen later
this summer in Southern California.

We have a different future in mind.

" CCRI, which pushed Prop. 187 in 1994, is now seeking to build support
for a more open and brutal campaign of terror and intimidation against
Mexican, Salvadoran Guatemalan and other immiigrants, and against all
indigenous Spanish speaking peoples."

Jesus! Do you even read the tripe you post here?
Do you have any idea how juvenile, discredible and simply moronic you sound?

"brutal campaign of terror?

You need a new hobby. Maybe take up paintball and pretend to fight the anti-communists.

Clearly this childlike infatuation with inane leftist politics is not working out for you.

Many of us Americans will be there assholes!

I support Jim Gilchrist!!!!!!

Mexicans come on down to Garden Grove!

Let have a Garden Party!!!!!!!!!

We will all be there! :)

With Jim Gilchrist!

Come on down and attack Americans!!

Many of us Americans will be there too, and the ones of us who understand the ideas of Natural Law and do NOT support King Jim and his band of greedy pigs who are trying to hoard the wealth of the North, while ensuring cheap Nikes for the people. We don't like your wealth, cheap Nikes, or you. We stand in opposition to injustice and facism. We stand against you! See you on Wednesday!!!!!!

http://www.anti-flag.com/mysql/media/8.mp3

Horde the wealth of the North? That just about explains it.....they ARE invaders wanting to take it all!

Whattt??? Not just peaceful agragarians looking for work and a better life.

Don't you want to go to the protest against Arnold in Pershing Square May 25th instead? Seems more your kind of demo.

To call Gilchrist greedy because he wants to protect and secure our borders is insanity.

Do you leave your door unlocked at night?

Injustice????

Why is it ok for Mexico to guard it's borders and deport
illegal aliens on their soil???

You fucking Hypocrites!

Get the hell out of our Country Mexico!

I'm ashamed that a group of women are hosting this California take-over. You can call the Women's Civic Club of Garden Grove at (714) 539-2727 to register your objection.

Just checked out the sponsors of this effort to organize CA against its immigrant residents. The California Coalition for Immigration Reform homepage (http://ccir.net/index.html) proudly proclaims itself to be a co-sponsor of Prop. 187 and has such charming headlines as "See Who's Contributing to the Likes of Maldef," "Get Your Copy of the New CCIR Audio CD.....'The Takeover of America;" and "Meet the Mechista Weasel Who Wants to Be LA's Next Mayorista." There's a link to a site that wants a state border patrol (as they say, like the CHP) . The only mention of _illegal_ aliens is a phone number to (877) - NO-ILLEGALS.

I hear there's some organizing going on, but, depending on what that leadership says, I plan on being there on Wednesday, say 6:00 (it starts at 7:30). It's $5 to get in the door.

Remember the roust in Baldwin Park. Yes, we can.

Directions (30 miles from downtown, allow for rush hour) from the 101S:

1: Merge onto I-5 S via the exit on the LEFT toward SANTA ANA. 20.2 miles
2: Take the BROOKHURST ST exit toward LA PALMA AVE. 0.3 miles
3: Turn RIGHT onto N BROOKHURST ST. 3.8 miles
4: Turn RIGHT onto CHAPMAN AVE. 0.4 miles
5: Turn SHARP LEFT to stay on CHAPMAN AVE. <0.1 miles
6: End at 9501 Chapman Ave, Garden Grove, CA 92841-2704, US

Leslie,
I really want to meet you. YOU have your facts all screwed up. It's you and your punks that want to take over CA. Not in my lifetime. And, like a good patriot once said, "When you pry it from my cold, dead hands."

So, rally your troops, they have nothing better to do anyway. Put on a good show for the MSM because all that the ladies in GG want to do is have a peaceful assembly.

So, bring your bullhorns, and your big, fat gordos. I will be waiting for YOU.

1. To be honest, yes I do sleep with my doors unlocked. I do not live in fear….fear…fox…fear…

2. The reason we feel the need to live in isolation is because 500 years of exploitation has stolen all the raw resources from the world and brought them to the USA. If we had listened to Adam Smith and his free trade (read free movement of labor) then we never would have had an opportunity to hoard all this wealth, drive the third world into increasing poverty, and set up a system where people want to come here so bad. Most of the illegals are not families (do you have a clue what it is like to cross over here, many don't make it at all and die in the desert), they are young men trying to earn money for a few months so their families can eat. When you stop the neo-con terrorism like the FTAA, WTO, IMF, WB, and all the other weapons of mass destruction, you will stop setting up systems that tear down schools, hospitals, and infrastructure. Then the people in these countries will not have the over supply of no-skilled labor that makes you stock portfolio shoot through your roof, and these people will not be able to get a good job at home. But the US policy of attacking any raw-resource country with a school makes it impossible for any of these countries to build an economic system that will work. You steal the bread from the table of every poor nation on earth, and then call them criminals when they come to your home to work for crumbs. So, yes, the neo-cons are hoarding the wealth, and exploiting the people, and creating a system where people have to leave their families, risk their lives, and all just so they can eat. You are a fascist and I will be there waiting for YOU! (peacefully of course).

Get a clue

I am not an American, I am a HUMAN, proud citizen of this place called earth!

Last, I would like to ask a question. When was the last time a Mexican attacked the United States? And don’t give me that bs about their presence being an attack! National Security?!?!?!

http://www.councilofpeace.net/ol.html

I am not a neo-con. I am a human, just like you. I question authority. Nice photo of my flag burning. You are a waste of space and air.

Do you think violence and hate is going to get us closer to that utopia you yearn for? NOT.

Why bother? All the invaders already believe this is mecca. Show your true colors and kiss Osama's butt.

When did Mexico attack the USA? Why just a couple of weeks ago when their army fired on BP so that they could push their drugs through. Does this not count in your one-track minded perception?

if you were thinking about going there to protest, you will not be alone.

I'm ashamed that a group of women are hosting this California take-over. You can call the Women's Civic Club of Garden Grove at (714) 539-2727 to register your objection.



OH POOR POOR MEXICANOS!
ALL OF AMERICA IS WATCHING YOU!
AND THE LOSERS IN THE LONG RUN WILL BE LOS MEXICANITOS!
GO BACK TO FUCKING MEXICO AND FIX YOUR ROTTEN FUCKING HOUSE!
GET OUT OF THE U.S UNLESS YOU ARE LEGAL.
CHABRONAS, JUST LIKE THE VFW...
YOU ARE ASKING FOR IT! :)

WE WILL BE THERE! :)

It seems like some people here are really fired up. I am impressed. As a side not I want to point out that no one posting on here is claiming that they are going to be violent, so you hate mongers out there, don't put words in other people's mouths. I hope everyone can keep this peaceful. As for the bottle in BP, I know that this happened, and it is unfortunate, but I would not go so far as to say that the country of Mexico sanctioned it. Before you turn the actions of one person into the actions of an entire people, let me remind you that there have been several hundred hate crimes committed by white people against people of color in the US since 9/11 (probably more). If we applied your logic to that, then the US sanctions hate crimes. Your logic is flawed. Remember, it is your side that wants to tote guns around the desert looking for poor people. We are not the violent ones, as I only arm myself with my voice, and an occasional sign.

T. Jefferson, your points are correct, as far as I know, there have not been any Mexican terrorist attacks on the US. I just hope that these right wing wackos don't cause so much hate that then they start.

PS. I don’t want to give California to Mexico, their government is just as corrupt as ours. I simply don’t want right wing nuts carrying guns around in the desert with the idea that they are doing this for me (a white American). I am going there to simply let the Minute Men that they are not welcome in California. Don’t turn this into a racist thing, I fear that these vigilantes are going to hurt innocent people coming her looking for work.


Has anyone contacted the media yet?

Let explain something to you. It is legal to carry a firearm in AZ. What?

You better show up, 1planet, and cool your people down. I still do not get what your objections are to the MMP. What?

You most likely get paid to be here and at the protests and delight in rebel rousing, too.

And, you most likely live in a gated community, drive a
BMW, and smoke clove cigarettes.

T. Jefferson, your points are correct, as far as I know, there have not been any Mexican terrorist attacks on the US. I just hope that these right wing wackos don't cause so much hate that then they start.

COME OFF OF IT! DID YOU SEE THE VIOLENCE FROM THE OPEN BORDER GROUP IN BALDWIN PARK?
WHO IS VIOLENT? Right Wing violence my ass!
Who killed the cop in Colorado? And many many American citizens? Illegal aliens! From Mexico!
You are full of shitty lies Mr.

The posts concerning Iraq are confusing.

1. When Saddam "gassed his own people" he did it to Islamic fighters supporting Iran, he did it with our support in which we gave him the missiles and the biological warfare, and then we reinstated his trade relations and give him millions of dollars in trade credits (this was organized by Rumsfield when he went there and met with Saddam).

2. Saddam stopped doing these actions when we stopped paying him to do these acts.

3. During the US Imposed sanctions Iraq was not able to repair its water treatment facilities (the parts were sanctioned) and they were not able to treat the illnesses from the water born bacteria (we sanctioned the medicine). The result was an average of 3,000 children dieing every month from 1991 to the start of the war.

4. Now that the war is on, the estimate about a year ago is 100,000 innocent civilians that have been killed (mostly by the US).

5. Now we have prisons all over Iraq where people are rounded up in the middle of the night, tortured for months, and then released. All without warrant.

So to say that people who are against this are for Saddam is crazy. Saddam was a US puppet, and we didn't hate him until he decided to STOP doing these things to his people (the last confirmed case of abuse by Saddam came in 1995). And the amount of people we have displaced, blown up, tortured, and terrorized in the last couple of years is in a close running with the number of people Saddam did it too during his entire career.

Turn off the corporate tv, and start going to the source. There are many organizations over there doing the research. The Red Crescent (red cross), Human Rights Watch, as well as many more.

Support Freedom, Justice, Democracy, and Equality. But to do that, you cannot support the USA, because we only allow for that so long as it does not interfere with the most important thing, corporate investment. Notice how all the different factions in Iraq, many who were opposed to each other before the invasion, are now united. A very large number of the people there do not support Saddam, and the do not support Bin Laden, but they have come together because they share a common enemy, the foreign invaders.

I don't even need to argue that you are wrong, the facts speak for themselves. Attached is the FBI report of hate crimes in the United States. You crunch those numbers with the cencus break down and you will find that you are many times more likly to be attacked in the US if you are a person of color than if you are a white person. Your tv just loves to focus on the ones that scares the white people the most, so it is more often than not that hate crimes against White people make the top story, and a hate crime against a minority gets ignored. Your statement is simply factually wrong.

Well, it won't uplaod, so just get it here:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/03hc.pdf

I was there, so yes I saw the crowds. I arrived right after the bottle, and that was an action taken by 1 person. Can you get that through you little head. Or do we have to now say that EVERY AMERICAN SOLDER is a criminal because a few of them got caught beating prisoners to death. If you insist that every person in a group be judged by the actions of one, then you had better spit on every solder coming back. This is proving a point that you fallacy of generalization (called composition) is a flawed move in logic and only displays your own lack of critical thought. The BP was NOT a violent protest!

"You most likely get paid to be here and at the protests and delight in rebel rousing, too.

And, you most likely live in a gated community, drive a
BMW, and smoke clove cigarettes. "

1. I do not live in a gated community, I sure don't drive a BMW, and no, I don't smoke Cloves". Even if I did, what relevance does this have to any issues? It is an Ad Hominem attack and is irrelevant.

2. The more important issue. I protest when there is a reason to. These actions gave woman the right to vote, gave African Americans equal rights, and just about every other good thing that has happened in this country. Could you please explain how I can stand up for the correct ideals AND get paid? No reason turning down money for stuff I would do for free!

Please pardon my assumptions. It is just like you and your people assume and think we love Bush and what he is doing to our country. And, that we all HATE people of different color. Not so. I abhor the war in Iraq and the billions of dollars spent there that we could be using elsewhere. We don't know who to trust anymore. We don't trust them, we don't trust you.

Americans are just trying to hold on to the America they have known and loved.

Our anger is aimed at administration and government, just like you.....corporations, too. See? We do have some common ground.

Sharon, could you explain Ronald to us?

The SOS group at BP was talking about bringing weapons. The anti-immigrant crowd at SOS and here has said the vilest things about Chicanos. Now Ronald is threatening blackmail to suppress free speech, but, of course, he will do whatever he does, regardless of what happens Wednesday--that's how blackmail works.

When we're face with hatred and violence like this, we have to stand against it. Nothing of what the anti-immigrant group puts out can be good, when it's so intertwined with loathing and violent intent. And the Governator endorses turning these whackos loose on our borders!

If you were at Baldwin Park you saw the racist hate that was turned against SOS. SOS is made up of all nationalities and colors....but, Americans, all.

Yes, it was only one bottle. It could have been a gunshot. The point I think we both are trying to make is, it only takes one stupid idiot to inflame a whole crowd. Guns were legal in AZ, that's it. No one advocates that kind of violence. We want peace, but we want our borders secured. Why do you protest that?

We are frustrated because NOT ONE F'N PERSON IN THE WHITE HOUSE CARES ABOUT ANYTHING BUT MONEY AND GETTING MORE MONEY.

SOS tries to keep racial slurs and white power stuff off the boards. Joseph explains time and time again it is not about prejudices.....it is about immigration run amok. Look at some of your posters here! What is with the viva la fallujah poster? And, you wonder why Americans want borders secured? I work with undocumented people, my daughter teaches their kids. I am not racist. I do detest all the brownpride, la raza, voz de aztlan stuff. Why do you not think that is racist? Why can't we honor Jim G.? Solutions?

Leslie,

I haven't done it yet.
But show up at the meeting and I will have to ask myself
why am I being so nice to the enemy?

If this family suffers it will be on your hands Leslie!

If I hear of a protest I will have to do my duty as he is a deported felon.
Remember Leslie-----I MEAN IT.

I am going on a limb here, but I think that I can explain what she means with, "common ground". There are certain members of SOS (Baldwin Park) that converse on their website. In a very quick summary, through rational debate, there are certain common grounds that have been identified with certain members of SOS and dissenters on their website. Topics such as globalization, the IMF, WTO, etc have been discussed. Many on both sides agree that these policies cause economies in third world economies to plummet, thus increasing the tendencies for families to want to come north. Though there is no agreement on solutions for the families, both sides seem to agree that these policies are immoral and ought to be fought against. I believe that Sharona Moore is one of those individuals and she does not want to "be against every issue" we are, solely because we are on one side and they are on another. If I am correct, SOS would likely work on campaigns such as protests against mulit-national corporate entities exploiting third world nations. Though the dissenters will not endorse the principles and/or goals of S.O.S., they seem to indicate that all people should all look for allies to the larger problems of Globalization, Neo-Liberalism, and Neo-Conservative polices. This is a fact that I know all of us address from time to time as we work against things like the war in Iraq.

I post this in part to recognize and admit some thought to former stories by me have been critical of ANSWER. Though I disagree with some of the situations I have encountered with that organization, I do believe they have been fundamental to the ability for us to mass organize against the Iraq war. They have been fundamental to creating the activist era we all live in. I may not agree on their 'conformist' actions, but I work with them (or have) because there are bigger issues that we agree on (such as an immediate withdrawal out of Iraq, and an immediate stop to our support of the Israeli genocide on Palestine, and an immediate end to US foreign policy that endangers democracy in places like Haiti and Venezuela).

The conversations and arguments are interesting to read, but aggravating at times. If you post in a constructive format, they will engage you in debate. For more information about their forum, you can go to:

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/

I don't know Ronald so I cannot speak for him. His comments surely reflect the frustration we all feel.
Let me tell you this tho, your people coming down to GG and standing around screaming "racist, racist pig, facist, white trash, open the borders!" will not help.
Can you walk in our shoes for just one moment?

In America we have this freedom of speech, why abuse it chanting hate and burning the flag of the country that gives you this freedom?

Ronald, I don't know what you think. First, this is a public event, on public property. You won't know who is coming in and whom they are. This is not a case where it is a race war. I know a lot of people from a lot of different backgrounds that are coming, and we are all citizens. We will have video camera everywhere, and if any of you right wing gun toting nuts do anything stupid, we will have justice. This is a country that if you try to F$%# with the people, we will F$#@ you right back. And if you knock on MY door...well, you try it. We won't be intimidated.

http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=1678

http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=1107

What are you worried about?

You still have Freedom of Speech.

Show up!

Read yours closer.

This has been announce on the radio many times, there are flyers all over the place, there are groups organizing. Most (90%) don't come to this website. This is going to happen, regardless of anything any one of us could do. Deal with it, its happening.

1planet, you were so nice earlier, what happened? BTW don't speak for me.

Duane:

How old are you? I'm 50, actually close to 51.

Do you have any idea what will become of this country if we just allow millions of illegal immigrants to prance into this country. It will destroy our health care industry, reduce the wages and benefits of legal American workers, make the corporate elite even more rich and powerful than they already are. And all of this at the expence of hard working American workers . . . like yourself.

Duane, you are being played for a sucker by the corporate elite of this country. These people that are trying to secure the borders are looking out for all of our best interest. Just because we want to protect our collective futures does not make us racists or xenophobes.

Yours in Freedom,

Bruce Cain
www.newagecitizen.com

Leslie and Duane are HYPOCRITES!

Mexico guards it's borders
Mexico deports known illegal aliens

Yet the Open Border crowd only attacks Americans

NOW HOW HYPOCRITICAL IS THAT?
We will fight back Duane and Leslie.

Ronald, I don't know what you think. First, this is a public event, on public property. You won't know who is coming in and whom they are. This is not a case where it is a race war. I know a lot of people from a lot of different backgrounds that are coming, and we are all citizens. We will have video camera everywhere, and if any of you right wing gun toting nuts do anything stupid, we will have justice. This is a country that if you try to F$%# with the people, we will F$#@ you right back. And if you knock on MY door...well, you try it. We won't be intimidated.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have CCIR meeting EVERY MONTH yet are left alone
for the most part. And should be.
But a large crowd is coming to attack us this month.
This is most unusual. And not all will be citizens.
WE WILL NOT BE INTIMIDATED.

If they show up........you know what I will do on Thursday.

What is racist or hateful about wanting to protect our country against any and all forms of terrorism? You claim to agree with secure borders and are not condoning mass "illegal" immigration. That is all these people want, the current laws enforced and secure borders. How would you feel if there were an attack, similar to 9/11, on the West Coast? Maybe then you would understand what this is all about? My friend, it would be too late!

"What's wrong with wanting to protect our borders..."

That's the fatal logcal fallacy known as "begging the question." These SOS a.k.a. "Minutemen" a.k.a. KKIK a.k.a. Aryan Nations et al people aren't motivated out of any desire to "save America!" (Our hero!) They're motivated by hatred and bogotry -- something that's acceptable thanks to this brutal monster in the White4 House.

Yes, let's protect our borders and yes, let's make a real effort to stop the flood of illegal aliens into the United States. But let's do it without the hatred and bigotry, without the vigilanty racist white trash mentality. Let's demand of the Republican administration that they stop opening our borders to cheap labor at the behest of their Corporate sponsers.

> How would you feel if there were an attack,
> similar to 9/11, on the West Coast? Maybe
> then you would understand what this is all
> about? My friend, it would be too late!

How frocking stupid. What _profound_ frocking stupidity.

Saudi Arabia attacked New York and the fascist regime didn't do anything about it. Instead the fascists invaded Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with it, and a country that didn't pose a threat even to its neighbors, leave alone the United States.

And of course the fascist Bush regime is a long time family friend and corporate business partner with the Saudis, including the bin Laden family. So of course the baby killing mass muirdering war criminal didn't do anything about Saudi Arabia attacking New York. Wouldn't be good for Bush regime business.

How would I feel if another of Bush's corporate buddies attacked California? Just as outraged as when his Saudi friends did.

Now, after you tried to change the subject from one of SOS a.k.a. "Ninutemen" a.k.a. KKK a.k.a. Aryan Nations et al. and thei rhatred and bigotry against Mexicans, we're left with the core motivational basis behind these people.

Specifically, their hatred, a hatred and bigotry that they try to mask under the _real_ need to protect our borders.

Fine, go down to GG and protest Jim Gilchrist. Shout racial epithets at your fellow human beings who happen to have a different view and skin color than you. Fat lot of good it'll do. Plus the media will be likely to cover this more than the BP nonsense. Maybe they will finally show you for what you really are: a bunch of idiot thugs who have nothing better to do than yell "Nazi" at people. What a bunch of uneducated losers you are. Of course the reason you are allowed to do this crap is that you're in America. Don't forget that.

BTW, your hate campaign against white people is RACIST. DUH! Get a clue! Bunch of hypocrites. Go to Mexico and try to help the people there. They need you. We don't.

BROWN SHIRTS AND BROWN BERETS HMMM IT'S NOT ASSTLAN YET AND NEVER WILL BE SO QUIT ACTING LIKE IT IS .ALLOW FREE SPEECH. IF WE WERE RACIST WE WOULDN'T HAVE LET IT GO THIS FAR.

BROWN SHIRTS AND BROWN BERETS HMMM! WHY DON'T YOU LITTLE BROWN MUTTS SHUT YOUR MOUTHS AND MAKE YOUR MOVE? WE KNOW YOU JUST LOVE TO SMOKE THE WHITE OWL THAT'S WHY YOUR REALLY HERE.

Here's to hoping there's a huge turnout of "protestors" against Gilchrist.

The morally bankrupt media will be unable to ignore a large protest, no matter what kind. And in reporting, they'll be forced to admit who and what is causing such a furor. Thanks for the FREE publicity, liberal media turds!

The Average American, for whom the blame doth rest for being uninformed, needs to see what kind of crap is being sold to college kids, as well as the seedy, shady lefty rabble slowly poisoning our great land.

So COME ON OUT you leftist freaks! Bring your mildewed philosophy into the sunshine, so you can be properly mocked, even as Joe Sixpack is properly shocked by how far some have fallen.

You use the term "fascist" in your article title. What is "fascist' about wanting the laws of the land enforced? C'mon now, either use words you know or be prepared to explain YOUR definitions since they don't seem to match the dictionary definitions. You stated that SOS is KKK and Aryan Nation, yet there is nothing in their website which links them to those groups and they have minorities in their membership. Can you provide some factual basis for your belief?
You profess to be a reoporter of some sort so you should have credible sources or a factual basis for you information. Please provide same or a retraction. God knows that we have enough propagandist out there in the MSM. This seems to be independent news" all right. "Independent" of any sort of truth from what I can see.
j.a.t.o.

America-hating Communists Shills:

I have never seen so much ignorant, traitorious tripe in my life.

You surely cannot believe the ignorant drivel you spew!

You live in the best country in the world (for now) and yet you endlessly bitch and moan like you are just so put upon.

Stalin had useful idiots, you guys are useless idiots.

...give it a rest, doggie-dung.

I don't get it. The immigration reformers are more a threat to Bush right now than we are. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Bush must be getting a big laugh watching the Progressives attack the paleo cons for him.

All you are doing is providing an endless stream of cheap labor for corporate America. Latino wages are down. The dry wall business in LA, which used to support black families is now sub living wages.

If the border was closed, the pressure might finally result in revolution in Mexico.

I hope you warned the undocumented that Orange County will deport if they get arrested.

Just got a better number to stop Gilchrist in his tracks.

Call the Women's Civic Club of Garden Grove at 714-539-7364.

My source tells me that they're getting *lots* of calls opposing Gilchrist's effort to organize vigilantes in SoCal--even the GG police have called the Women's Club with concerns. Keep those phone calls coming!

If it weren't for your clowns crashing our party, there wouldn't be a problem.

You are so friggin' programmed. Come on and bring your racist crap, how do you like that? YOU ARE A RACIST. You hate the American race.

Leslie, green is not your color.

STAND DOWN ON THE PROTEST OF CCIR.

Please help us spread the word, we are asking for everyone to stand down on the protest of Jim Gilchist's visit.

Some of the Latino ranks of our brothers and sisters on the left want us to engage and support their political plans, but we need to wait.

Most of these immigration groups are against Bush and against CAFTA and the FTAA. They share our fight. Many of them are also against this corrupt war, but they support the troops.

There's no evidence that their motivations are racist that we can find in print. We need unity in the face of Globalism and these groups are on the same side as we are.

They are fellow citizens that are realizing the American government is completely under the control of multi-national corporations with an agenda.

Our national peace movement and allies need to shut those pushing this protest down before it harms our efforts against Bush and CAFTA.

Yours in Solidarity,

Janet

http://www.saveourstate.org/gallery.html
**********************************
Welcome to Mexifornia!

Aren't you tired of watching your state turn into a third world cesspool right before your eyes?

All photos courtesy of "SecondSon2nd1" (one of three photos shown here)

If you would like to submit some pictures depicting the third world shantytown your community is becoming, please feel free.
---------------------------------------------------------------
If they are not racist, then explain something:
1. How can you tell the legal status of these people? The only thing I can tell is that they are Latino. Since you can't tell the legal status, then what makes cities like this a "cesspool" other than the fact it is not white?

************************************************************
Though it is clear that the leaders of the group are not trying to be racists, the group is full of racist people, fueling racist hatred, and causing people who were low-key racists to rise up against people of color. There is simply no way to organize a group against people from mexico, and keep it anti racist. Often many of them are racist without even knowing it, like calling cities with residents of Mexican heritage cesspools.

Here are some random posts on their website. Most of these people are NOT SOS members, but the point is that SOS is fueling the fire of racism, it simply can not be avoided. Racists post their hate in the forum, and it builds other people's anger. The SOS forums CAUSE racism, and since they run it, they are creating even more racism. I am not posting messages I from SOS members, but I will say that they have said many times that they are against illegal immigration and not Mexican people, unfortunatly, when they see a hard working Mexican day laborer, they automatically assume s/he is an illegal alien (many are, and many are not). The group is not verifing people's legal status, and therefore only judging people based on their skin color. I know of an illegal alien from Sweden. Why isn't s/he scared of SOS, because SOS would never know; s/he is white.
************************************************
Post:
Kathy58 Posted: May 16 2005, 07:59 AM


Activist


Group: Members
Posts: 96
Member No.: 329
Joined: 7-April 05

I have thought about this for quite a while. Even before this post. I have never been a racist who didn't like mexicans. When I first came to California, I never thought about mexicans as being anything other than just ordinary people. Some were good, some were not so good. I had never known any mexicans before so I was without cultural bias of any kind.

After living with them for years, decades in fact, I have to say that I have grown to dislike them as a people, as a culture and individually. You could say I am a racist who was carefully taught to be a racist by the very people against who my bias exists.

How many times must an individual be victimized by one group of people before that individual learns to avoid that group? Are there mexican americans who are loyal Americans? Yes.

They have to be rare, otherwise I would certainly have met more of them. They have to be like needles in haystacks, and I'm not willing to keep going through the haystacks.
********************************************
Another Post
NightStar21 Posted: May 19 2005, 04:42 PM

Rookie

Group: Members
Posts: 15
Member No.: 677
Joined: 17-May 05

QUOTE (John Wagner @ May 17 2005, 09:38 AM)
QUOTE (Cat Patrol @ May 16 2005, 05:07 PM)
QUOTE
There is no "hispanic race". To suggest that there is makes you yourself a racist.

If there is not Hispanic race, then what does "Viva La Raza" mean?

QUOTE
There is no "hispanic race". To suggest that there is makes you yourself a racist.

If there is not Hispanic race, then what does "Viva La Raza" mean?

EXCATLY!!!
--------------------
You call me racist as if it were a bad thing??.
***********************************
SherriCorrell Posted: May 21 2005, 12:30 PM


Newbie


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Member No.: 187
Joined: 4-March 05

--------------------------------------------------
Kathy, you nailed it. If ever someone read my mind, you did. That is EXACTLY how it is. It was THEY who turned me against THEM; NO ONE ELSE...

http://www.sherricorrell.com

and if we could just put a billboard up similar to this little cartoon to counter the RACIST ONE IN LA, CA (and not Mexico); then we could say we gave them a dose of their own medicine.
********************************************

If you can't find anything racist on their web forum, you haven't gone there. It is everywhere.....

Here is another interesting post.....

izzymo Posted: May 13 2005, 08:05 AM

Rookie

Group: Members
Posts: 32
Member No.: 536
Joined: 13-May 05

I came on this site expecting to find intelligent discussions about being anti-illegal immigrant, but yet I keep finding many racist remarks against the hispanic race in general (not by everyone but by a lot of people). Please do not deny this fact, it is very obvious. I am dissappointed. If Iwanted to look at that crap, I'd go to a white supremacist site.

As I said before ,being a mexican american, I am appalled at the lack of intelligence in some of the people that post here (aka DMB)!!! My family worked very hard for what we have (a very nice home in a nice part of the city and kids almost through college), yet I keep seeing ignorance pouring out of people's mouth's here about the mexican race in general.
Get it straight here folks.....are you just anti-illegal immigrant, or anti-mexican in general?

p.s. I was very hated at my high school by other mexicans for being a hardworking student and because I wasn't for that "cholo" brownpride lowrider crap. It doesn't represent how the majority of our race thinks. So it's not like I'm bashing this forum.
**************************************************

We need to work together to stop racism. If you really want secure boders, you need to constructivly work for that goal. The MinuteMen project is organizing armed vigilanti groups, walking around the desert like Rambo. If they encounter a bunch of Mexican Americans down there who refuse to comply with MM orders (they would not be breaking the law and would not need ot comply), who is to say what the MMP would do. This is simply not the intellengent way to go, and that is what it seems the protests against them are about. Ever wander why the MMP in not along the Candian border, illegals from Europe and Canada cross that one. Ever think that it would simply be to diffucult to identify the legal ones from the illegal ones. Everytime there is a problem with the economy, it seems that racist groups form and blame it on the person of color.

If you cannot call the stuff posted here by your faithful racist, then you are blind in one eye and can't see out of the other.

It is only about illegal immigration, only. I-L-L-E-G-A-L
immigration that is out of control.

www.minuteman-project.com

(pointer from a San Diego friend)

Wow, people 'trying not to be racist" sounds better than a lot of people.

I think you want to call them racist. That is pretty weak evidence. In fact, it is not evidence at all. Thats just their forums. Anyone can post on their forums, even me and if I dont like their agenda I could even try to sound racist.

There is no evidence of racism in most of these groups. They stand with us against CAFTA and Bush.

You need to chill before you cost us the majority of public support we need to deal with both.

Janet

Janet,

You are not very well informed if you think that a post on here will get people to "stand down" (as you put it). A majority of the people that come to protests find out through their email, and only a fraction of those who come to indymedia read the comments (past problems with trolls). Even if people thought it was called off from this, you would only lose a few.

The Minuten Men are not supported by the California people, they are not welcome on our borders, and the people of California will likely protest any outsider that will try to come in here and do it. Hitler was against free trade as well, that does not mean good people would support the Nazis.

I am just a fly on the wall, watching the world go by. I am not a protester, but to come here and post like that, while, it is funny.

Planet11person, whatever your name is.

Everytime, you post your opinions, you show who the racist is.

YOU!!!!!!! TALKING ABOUT WHAT WHITE PEOPLE DID TO BROWN PEOPLE, SO LONG AGO.

EVERYONE, INCLUDING MEXICANS, HAVE DONE THE SAME EXACT THINGS THAT WHITE PEOPLE HAVE DONE.

YOUR Mexican ancestors, fought one another, killed one another, sacrificed thousands of thousands of Mexican people at their altars in Mexico, to their Snake God. They would take their own people and put them on an altar and rip their hearts from them while they were still alive. Then they would hack up their bodies, and march their body parts through the streets, and make monuments of them.

They made slaves of one another. Mexico's ancient great cities were left destroyed and damaged and left to rot in the jungles of Mexico, because of warfare amonst themselves.

Mexicans were their own worst enemy. The same goes with Native American Indians. They made slaves of other indian tribes, and murdered and killed for territory. Sure there were peaceful tribes, but there were the Apache and other violent Indian tribes that were more barbaric and violent, than whites could ever think of being.

All nations, All races, all ethnicities have done the same as whites or ten thousand times worse.

The difference between whites and most Third World countries, where we conquer, we have made it better, and you are all just jealous, because you are such failures.

TO ALL YOU HISPANICS, WHO HATE WHITES, IF YOUR PEOPLE ARE SO GREAT AND SO MIGHTY, WHY ARE YOU HAVING TO COME TO AMERICA? BECAUSE YOU DO NOT HAVE THE COURAGE TO MAKE SOMETHING OF YOURSELVES OR YOUR COUNTRY. You come to our country, because we have made something of ourselves. iT IS EASIER FOR YOU TO ROB FROM US, THAN TO FIGHT AND DIE, FOR WHAT YOU WANT, LIKE WE HAVE HAD TO DO.

Your people would not be dying in the dessert, if they would stay in Mexico, and find the balls to make something of their homeland. Maybe 200 a year die in the dessert, but 3,000,000 are getting through, with those odds, I would not say these people are that brave.

This is definately not about race. I want each and every single illegal criminal Mexican invader out of my country, but you know what I want more? I would like to see us hang, the mostly white traitors that are hiring these illegal criminal Mexican invaders.

I want to see us go after and impeach, the mostly white government officials that continue to mock the American people with their treason.

I want John McCain, Joe Lieberman, Chris Cannon, Jim Kolbe, Jeff Flake, Ted Kennedy, and okay there is one hispanic, Luis Guiterraz, impeached and out of my United States Congress. These are the traitors that support the next amnesty for illegal criminal Mexican invaders.

This is not about race. This is about treason, and one group of people (illegal criminal Mexican invaders) getting preferential treatment, over everyone else.

While Americans must obey the rule of law, and if we do not, we are immediately punished, illegal criminal Mexican invaders, are walking amongst us.

WE WILL TAKE CARE OF THIS EVIL. LAW ABIDING AMERICANS WILL HAVE JUSTICE!!!!!!!!

Be careful who you attribute things too. I always post under my name (no reason to hide). I usually don't interact with the comments line, but did a few times on here. I simply have been watching the SOS boards (many of us have been since BP) and have reported back here several times. It seems you have me confused not only on this board, but with dissenters on your page. I have agreed with some of the stuff posted on both sides of issues, and repeated some of it in my postings. When I saw you refer to common ground, I did not want to let that one go, as I understood what you meant. But I have never had a chance to "be nice" to you. Your group scares the hell out of me.

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2005/05/126500.php
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2005/05/126552.php

As far as letting go of this conversation, once I went back to your site and started to see the threats of violence, I decided to stop posting on here to you as well, but needed to report these acts to would be activists who may put their well being at risk by holding a peaceful and legal protest.

As for your post, it speaks for itself. I only know that my Mexican neighbors and friends are good hardworking, honest people. When we were at BP, there was no one walking up to me making racial slurs, we were there together.

Just what the hell do you people NOT understand? Isn't there anything you actually have to say, other than childish name calling? Probably not, you ALL do it, you HAVE no other card to play! Do what the hell you think is right, whatever you can "sleep" with. This IS AMERICA, we ARE AMERICANS and we will REMAIN AMERICANS! You call us names, burn and stomp on our flag and on the same hand demand respect? You have GOT to be kidding!! We are going to stand up for our country, house by house, block by block and YES, border by border!!! So keep up your rant and name calling, it will not change anything nor will it be to your advantage. Illegal will always mean "against the law". We want our laws enforced!! I do not give a damn if you are a Swede, if you are NOT here legally, get the hell out!!!

.....geez, closet racist get all huffy when you out them.

It's been very distateful, being exposed to racist hate mongers who even now continue to try tosupport and defend their bigotry in my inbound email.

One of the things I recognize from all this is the fact that these people -- whether they call themselves "Save our State" or "Minutemen" or "Klu Klux Klan" or "Aryan Nations..." one of the things I've noticed about all these groups is that they _win_ when anyone who opposes them stoops to their level or even gets annoyed with such ideologies to the point that they get angry and respond in kind.

Oppose such people we must, however, and getting splattered with racist filth is part of the job of fighting and opposing repugnant ideologies. If they're not opposed and exposed, they fester and grow -- both in number and in violence.

But at the same time, those of us who oppose such people and the ideologies they advocate and stand for -- myself included -- need to take care not to devolve to their level, employ angry and disrespectful rhetoric. Obviously these people donb't deserve respect, but I find (often rather late) that calm, quiet opposition to racist hatred and bigotry works better than angry rhetoric.

So I vow to deport myself better than I have been of late. I'll continue to oppose fascism, racism, hatred and bigotry, and I'll continue to oppose such groups of individuals, but with a little self control, I vow to do it better, calmly, rationally, and with some measure of being polite.

Most of such people sop up their racism with their mother's milk and in that respect, most of such people aren't entirely to blame.

Leftists are good at name calling...too back they suck as governing.

All you punks need to know is that I'll oppose you at every turn.

.....gee, let's all give up and go home...

....illegal immigration is about to come to a grinding halt now that the Basement Avenger is on the job!

Chicanos and Mexicans don't hate do they? Hahahahah!


http://boards.brownpride.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1151409&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=90&fpart=1#1151409


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Huitzilopochti
peon
**

Reged: 05/31/04
Posts: 118



NIGGERS TALKIN SHIT ABOUT MEXICANS!
#1151409 - 11/23/04 02:50 AM (4.26.36.97)
Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote

Check this shit out Raza look at these fuckin racist ass niggers talkin shit our gente, fuck these racist ass big lipped,blue gummed, nappy headed, spear chunkin, fried chicken eatin, racist motherfuckers. I say we should all go and sign up at this site and tell these racists fuckin coons to fuck off. Stupid fuckin jiggaboos are just mad because were takin over and their being displaced, Well fuck'em thats just too bad fucking apes don't like then take their asses back to that fuckin shit hole africa. This shit is worse than some of the shit at stormfront, Fuckin niggers acting white again always kissing the ass of their white masters. This is the type of shit that nigger_merchant, Sam Fagjada, and nigger2 are always talkin. Fuck all you fuckin niggers were takin over and if you don't like then do humanity a favor and kill yourselves. take a look at the link below to see for yourself what i'm talking about.

http://theblackwall.blackvoices.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ti-rant&msg=15462.1

Poor KFC.

America-hating socialist bruvva with a rotten attitude.

Nothing new there.

Perhaps, at the next "Baldwin Park" a C-141 will fly over and drop a "Daisy Cutter".

That would warm things up for you Scum.

The name Fredric L. Rice sounds American. (Unless the middle initial stands for Lalo).

If he is a true American, he should be ashamed of himself standing for open borders and allowing leprosy, T.B. and other 3rd world disease carriers to stream through our porous borders unchecked.

According to Michael Savage Phd there were 7,000 new cases of leprosy in the USA last year. There were not more than 400 in the past 40 years. What does that tell you about Illegal Immigrents?

They are not all "just poor campecinos buscando trabajo en "la tiera de lache y miel".

You, Chicanos, should fear them the most! They live amoung you, not The Americans. They infest you with their diseases.

Report them! Send them away! Be thankful that YOU live and work in this country!

At least most Blacks are born here and the few that come from Africa do not swim the atlantic and crawl up on the shores.

They speak English, (even RAP is English, of sorts) and they integrate into society.

Colin Powell and Conde Rice are two I am very proud of. Justice Brown is a recent addition.

What can you be proud of, other than you know some English 4 letter words, you hijo de perra, chingada cabron!

Fredric,
Frankly, I'm confused. It seems both sides here are calling the other hatrefull bigot racists.

I'm an American. Born here 70 years ago. My mom and dad were born here. Their moms and dads were either born here or came through Ellis Island, after a 14 day quarentine to make sure they didn't have or carry 3rd world diseases like TB, etc. TB was iradicated in These United States in the last century. Now, strong, dangerous, drug resistent strains are poping up.

Would I be called a hateful racist bigot if I would work to stop the casual importation of dangerous diseases on the backs of Middle Eastern and Asian Foriegnors who sneak into Mexico (where it's easy) and travel North and stream across our southern border unchecked so that some poor farmboys from Mexico can sneak in too and look for honest work?

What's wrong with normal immigration proceedures?

My mom and dad's families did it. Is beneath the dignity of Los de La RAZA?

Little Fly on the wall, Most flies I've seen are Black. Since you hide yourself behine your "Handle" Why don't you tell us your color?

"MinuteMen project is organizing armed vigilanti groups, walking around the desert like Rambo"

Most reports I got were that the MMP's were UNARMED citizens with cell phones sitting on lawn chairs, minding their own business, ocasionally reporting a trespasser to the proper authorities. Make of them what you will, but, at least tell the truth about them and what they did and how they acted, not how you would have acted if you were trying to stop Americans from crossing into Mexico!

Duane Roberts sounds like a real American name. Not a Chicano name. Perhaps your mom is an Hispanic member of La Raza or MS-13, and you, loyal son, are taking up her standard.

If not, then I apologize to your mom, and lets get on with it:

The Gay population likes to label the "Straight" , AKA, Normally sexually oriented population Homophobes.

The Chicano, Cholo, LA Raza and MS-13 front organizations like to label common ordinary patriotic Americans of any color, national origin or creed, racist, fascist xenophobes.

Most of the MMP's I saw on TV News looked like common, ordinary Middle Americans who were solely interested in keeping Illegal Alien Nationals from invading our otherwise poorly guarded borders.

Most rallies held by real White Supremacists like the KKK, Aryan Nation, and Neo Nazis can only muster a hundred or so of their kind to march in a parade. They ARE Hate Groups!

Hate doesn't play well in the United States.

There were a thousand MinuteMen and MinuteWomen in AZ all month in April.

Patriotism and Strong Nationalism plays well in These United States.

Duane, get a life, don't call common and ordinary do good American Patriots racist, fascist xenophobes.

Instead, why don't you give the clarion call to all the Axtlaners, La Razas, and MS-13 front organizations to go to Mexico and clean up the drug cartels down there; straighten out the government and make it more "people" oriented; do a little "Peace Corps" type of work and turn that 3rd world country into something its people can be proud to live in rather than desire to leave so badly they are willing to face death freezing in the snow of the Laguna Mtns in the winter or dying of thirst in the Sonora and Mexicali deserts in the summer????

Why not put a positive spin on your energy?

Bill Ashcerfeld
teambldr@yahoo.com

german shepard-shit: "According to Michael Savage Phd..."


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

being a patriot = keeping out mexicans? look, if the us forces companies to pay illegals the same wages as citizens, the problem would fix itself. but theres no money to be made that way. so..yeah. no fences, no borders. free movement for all.

Now what race is purple? It must be the alien mud race.

I just want to thank all the racists, homophobes, and bigots for coming here and taking over the comment line. I thought we were going to have to work to expose the hatred you try to hide so well, but you have done that for us, thus justifying all the reasons we are against your redneck views.

PS. A straight person is not a homophobe. A homophobe is a person who does not feel comfortable around people that are gay. They are the ones that would not want to be in gym class with a gay person. They are the ones that would not go out at night with a gay friend. They are ones that would not stand up for a person's right to him/her self. A homophobe is usually not straight, s/he usually is so ashamed of his/her self that they pretend to be straight, often taking up extremely religious views to ‘convince’ everyone that s/he is someone that s/he isn’t.

The notion of a world without borders, of everyone getting the same piece of some infinite pie is a great one.

Unfortunately, it's also a fantasy.

To understand the issue of illegal immigration in America you don't have to be a genius.

America is a desirable place to move to for Mexicans because American tax dollars have built a great infrastructure. Don't get me wrong, it has it's faults, but it is still great. Have you ever driven the streets of Juarez?

The true working class of America, not the fantasy "working class" that unemployed socialist college dropouts are thinking of, but the people in America with steady jobs, families, and futures. Those people pay into the system more than they take out. That is how you build a productive country.

When you have people coming here illegally, who think for some reason they are entitled to sponge off that system, it's hospitals, it's welfare, it's education, it's social security, that is when you have a major breakdown in the system.

It's nice to think that every white person in America is just sitting on big piles of money, laughing at all of those filthy minorities, but it just isn't the case. There isn't enough to go around and like your mom used to say.. money doesn't just grow on trees. People here are proud of what they've worked for and the communities they've built up and live in.

Those people who come to work here illegally not only don't pay into the system but tend to be the biggest drains on the system as well. You cannot deny that. Not only that but the money they do make here, where does it go? Back into the economy? No. A good percentage of it goes back to Mexico.

Why don't any of these hate organizations such as La Raza or Mecha ever address the real issue? Why don't they ever address why it is more desirable to come leech off another country illegally than it is to fix your own beautiful country? And Mexico really does have plenty of beauty. Why abandon your home and try to force your culture on an unwilling host? Why at least not assimilate if you want to be a part of the process? Why don't these organizations ever address those issues?

I don't understand it.

But I do know that the Minuteman Project is doing a great service. Illegal immigration is a huge problem in the US. I know a lot of you are in college, so when illegal Mexicans start becoming entitled to free college educations like those hate organizations want, what do you think will happen to your tuitions? While your parents may be paying it now, you'll feel the effects of this policy eventually. It may not be "fair", but it's real. Everything will become more expensive. From the Jettas you drive to the bandanas you hide your face behind while screaming "RACISTS" at the top of your lungs. Everything will become more expensive while the quality of life will go down. Is that really what you're fighting for?

Why not save yourselves the fight and just move to Tijuana. It's the shithole I think you're dreaming of.

M. Jordan

Good points, M. Jordan. But don't expect a real rebuttal here.

Whenever a lefty is caught red-handed, they try in desperation to change the subject.

Don't be surprised if, instead of arguing against your words point by rational point, you're personally attacked for being a racist and responsible for slavery, genocide, etc.

Though they would deny it on their deathbeds, leftist "leaders" only want power. For them it's easier to "guilt" the gullible than work.

But it's the guilt-ridden, ignorant of history White and/or American cowards among us who cave in to these race-baiting povery pimps, that are the real problem.

"There is no free lunch." Even the left knows this...they just want someone else to pick up the tab.

Will you be the next pigeon for these con artists or will you stand up for America?

....I think that takes the cake for most wingnut cliches in a single post...

...if he worked in "gummint", "kollij" and "America-hater" he could have been unbeatable!

Alll you Socialists, don't forget to bring your Vietnamese Communist flag to Garden Grove. Red with a yellow star. See you there

Fredric L. Rice and others wrote: "Everyone is against illegal aliens flooding into their countries, whether it's the United States, Australia, Germany, Ireland... everyone oppose illegal virtual invasions."

Really, everyone is against illegal immigration? Then why do three million illegal aliens enter the US every year? Because out corrupt politicians allow it!

The neo-cons want cheap exploitable labor, the far left wants poor ignorant people for a Socialist Revolution.

So tell me again how everyone is against illegal immigration, and how the elites in both parties are suddenly with no public pressure going to change direction 180 degreees and stop something they have supported against the wishes of American citizens for the past 40 years.

SO FAR you've been a one-trick pony, OEM.

Heard a lot of name-calling, most of it uninventive.

Never heard you put two words together that would defend or support whatever it is YOU believe, or believe in.

I think it's great that the entire victicrat party acts the same as you, shouting out rude names but offering ZERO ideas or content.

Howard Dean has really helped the Republican Party. DEAN IN 2008! YEEEAAAAARRRGGHHH!

Everyone is against murder? Then why do throusands of murders take place in the US every year? Because our corrupt politicians allow it!

teech: "Heard a lot of name-calling, most of it uninventive. "

...well, I guess you have trouble reading your screen without mumbling along, I don't know how you would have other "heard" anything, teech...

...so you wanna dance? OK, I could use some entertainment....what is it you are "calling me out" on?

Please one eyed man, find a better analagy. All murders are investegated, and murderers are prosecuted. Illegal aliens who work, and the companies that hire them, are not. Less than 0.01% of the illegal aliens and companies who break these laws are investigated or prosecuted.

since you aren't an american--get the fuck out and go to shithole mexico. maybe we will get lucky and someone will nuke mexico--right up that piece of shit fox's ass. death to fox!

Never (have) heard you put two words together that would defend or support whatever it is YOU believe, or believe in.

Around here you've criticized everyone and everything, but never a few words about what YOU would do to fix or make things better. At least Meyer and others have a philosophy and ideas of some sort.

No need to wear out your keyboard. Even a few words would be helpful.

Let's see if you know how to do it better, or if you're just another attention whore.

Ahhh, good show!
Seven or eight of those bitches have been locked up, a bunch of their cohorts are on a vigil at the PD.
According to them, and the lunatic Cebada, they are political prisoners.
Political prisoners my ass - lowlife scum. And they are where they belong.
Thank you, Garden Grove police!
I loved those police officers on horseback herding that scum!
Wake up, America! And long live the MinuteMen!

Let the water bottles start raining down on you racist bastards. The anti is upped, and the people are engaged. I usually denouce any form of violence, but now I really want to shake the hand of the BP bottle thrower. I understand now, it was a really great shot. Good Job!!

Don't worry, punk bitch, there is a pair of handcuffs for you, too!
I love this! They are soo easy! All you have to do is hand the the rope! They can take of the rest all on their own!
Muahahahahaha!

"Around here you've criticized everyone and everything, but never a few words about YOU"

TURN ONS -
Red wine and honesty
Warm evenings and cool jazz
Long walks on the beach
Breakfast in bed with that special someone

TURN OFFS -
White Zinfandel
Head games
Kenny G
Fuckin' ignorant, lyin' ass, synchophantic dip-shit republicans

Well howdy there, folks. Just thought I'd drop in and prove J. Irving wrong. Us lefties can rebut just fine.

There ain't nothing wrong with us as a group; we're not weak or stupid. We're just a little confused, that's all. We haven't figured out yet, as a group, that you folks on the right plan to take over the country and put the rest of us all in jail or kill us off. But we'll figure it soon, don't you worry. And then you'll see us fight.

M. Jordan writes:

>Explain this to me.

>The notion of a world without borders, of everyone >getting the same piece of some infinite pie is a great >one.

>Unfortunately, it's also a fantasy.

You're right, friend. There's far too much ignorance, hatred, and tribal stupidity in the world for there ever to be fairness or lasting peace. Man's a killing machine, no doubt about it.

>To understand the issue of illegal immigration in >America you don't have to be a genius.

Good thing.

>America is a desirable place to move to for Mexicans >because American tax dollars have built a great >infrastructure. Don't get me wrong, it has it's faults, >but it is still great. Have you ever driven the streets of >Juarez?

Damned greasers, heh heh heh

>The true working class of America, not the >fantasy "working class" that unemployed socialist >college dropouts are thinking of, but the people in >America with steady jobs, families, and futures.

Must be the middle class you're thinking of, pardner. The working poor in America don't have too many of those things. But go on.

>Those people pay into the system more than they >take out. That is how you build a productive country.

Yep, built on the backs of the middle class.

>When you have people coming here illegally, who >think for some reason they are entitled to sponge off >that system, it's hospitals, it's welfare, it's education, >it's social security, that is when you have a major >breakdown in the system.

Okay, hold one. How many greasers do you think we bring into this country each year? Thousands? Tens of thousands? It's a real mystery, ain't it? The politicians say we need 'em to "do the jobs ordinary Americans won't do." What that really means I don't know, because I can push a mop or lawn-blow a sidewalk as good as anyone. My Pappy taught me there's dignity in all kinds of work.

No, they must mean the jobs that our corporate bigwigs are too cheap to pay well for. Half wages, no benefits, fire you in ninety days or whenever, that sort of thing. Slave jobs.

So maybe America, which has such an appetite for cheap and expendable workers, is really just a slavery state. Maybe the Civil War didn't solve anything at all, 'cause we only traded one skin color for another.

Maybe if it weren't for cheap labor, a.k.a. slavery, you wouldn't have your nice house in the suburbs and your nuclear family and your little plans for the future. Maybe that's why you're so techy about it, why all Americans are techy about being the greatest and living in a democracy and being beloved of God and all. Maybe we got something to hide, or something we're hiding from ourselves. Like an alcoholic, or a junkie.

So now the goddamned ungrateful slaves want a little health care, they want to educated their little nits and they don't wanna face starvation when we're through with 'em? They wanna become citizens, for chrissake! They want to be treated like people! To hell with 'em!

Face it, M. You're sounding a might cheap here.

>It's nice to think that every white person in America is >just sitting on big piles of money, laughing at all of >those filthy minorities, but it just isn't the case.

Well maybe not laughing, no. Could be chuckling.

>There isn't enough to go around and like your mom >used to say.. money doesn't just grow on trees.

I'm with you there, pardner. Always gonna be slaves 'cause they's never enough to go around.

>People here are proud of what they've worked for and >the communities they've built up and live in.

Yep, fine little communities. Fine little tribes.

>Those people who come to work here illegally not >only don't pay into the system but tend to be the >biggest drains on the system as well. You cannot >deny that.

Oh but I can. You think we could just kick the Messicans out? How long would you last with a broomhandle in your hand? Or a short-handled hoe?

Where would little Chad and Tiffany go to sit if there weren't any fast-food restaurants? What would you wear to work if there were no cleaners? You want to spend your weekends doing yardwork instead of watching TiVo on the high-definition?

We are completely dependent on our slave labor. Our top-heavy economy would collapse in months without 'em. Why do you think Congress just voted to complete the fence between the U.S. and Mexico? Because up 'till now we didn't want one. Illegals are the people we love to hate. So here's your bullwhip, M. Go on, crease a few wetbacks. It's funny when they start screaming and trying to run.

>Not only that but the money they do make here, >where does it go? Back into the economy? No. A >good percentage of it goes back to Mexico.

Immigrant revenge perhaps? Damn clever, if you ask me.

But the truth is they're just like us, M. They have families they're working hard to support. Families that aren't here, because a good parent doesn't subject his kid to a march through the desert without water or a swim in the Rio Grande. You can agree with that, right?

So the money goes back home, because home is where the heart is.

>Why don't any of these hate organizations such as >La Raza or Mecha ever address the real issue?

They do. But the real issue is not which brand of ignorant hate rhetoric is better than the other brand. The real issue is, how angry are the latinos right now? Are they ready to explode, to riot, to start the killing? A reasonably intelligent overseer like yourself oughtta know that in the end, it is only violence or threat of violence that truly matters.

So they get on here, and you get on here, and the two of you duke it out, and you take each other's measure. And if the peasants aren't revolting, you can rest easy in your castle. But If the natives are taking scalps, whitebread, you know you'd better run for the hills. If you live in the southern U.S. you're the minority now.

Wake up and smell the coffee. It's about race and violence because you chowderheads insist that it is. So everyone is just protecting their own, right? But go too far and it'll be a bloodbath. Go back to college and take a few history classes, you'll see what I mean.

>Whyt don't they ever address why it is more desirable >to come leech off another country illegally than it is to >fix your own beautiful country?

The quick answer is, guys with assault rifles. Mexico has plenty, all under the control of corrupt politicians. Just we have up here. Go stage a protest and see how long it takes for U.S. cops to arrive and start cracking heads and making false arrests. Not long, usually. Happened here in the O.C. just two days ago. Kids were arrested for throwing empty soda cans and water bottles, and bail was set at $50,000. Meanwhile the Minuteman who drove his car into the crowd, injuring three, was released without charges. That'll teach the lefty bastards, eh? Too bad the Minuteman didn't step on it, heh heh heh. Missed a chance to get some, heh heh heh.

Read the papers. Since 9/11 we've become a rightist police state. Read history. All marching becomes into goose-stepping over time. Hitler wasn't an evil freak, he was a good conservative who achieved many key agenda goals.

>And Mexico really does have plenty of beauty.

Everything but the people, riiiiiiiight

>Why abandon your home and try to force your culture >on an unwilling host? Why at least not assimilate if >you want to be a part of the process? Why don't >these organizations ever address those issues?

Because the very phraseology you're using is racist and therefore mildly offensive.

In other words, each time you open your mouth you piss 'em off. In fact it's hard NOT to be a racist. I'd love to ask the Creator why he made us so fucked up, why we naturally tend toward violence and stupidity and hate language. He'd probably smack me upside the head, call me a white nigger and force me to give him a blowjob. After all, He made us in His image.

>I don't understand it.

Me neither. Maybe the Bible was wrong about a few things.

>But I do know that the Minuteman Project is doing a >great service.

Yep. It's letting us pretend to discourage illegal immigration. Funny how no one wants to increase the number of real cops along the border, or make it illegal for corporations to hire undocumented workers. No, we'd rather ask untrained, unpaid racists to defend our borders from the mud hordes. Makes all the real patriots feel gooey inside.

>Illegal immigration is a huge problem in the US.

I couldn't agree more. So how about climbing down from that soapbox of yours and making a real effort to fix it? Instead of backing vigilantism, which increases racial tensions and leads inevitably to hate crimes?

>I know a lot of you are in college,

Poor dumb fuckers, heh heh heh

> so when illegal Mexicans start becoming entitled to >free college educations like those hate organizations >want, what do you think will happen to your tuitions?

Good idea, make an appeal to our personal greed. Always works with Republicans, right?

>While your parents may be paying it now, you'll feel >the effects of this policy eventually. It may not >be "fair", but it's real. Everything will become more >expensive. From the Jettas you drive to the >bandanas you hide your face behind while >screaming "RACISTS" at the top of your lungs.

Now that IS funny, M. Good one.

>Everything will become more expensive while the >quality of life will go down. Is that really what you're >fighting for?

Probably not. Most likely the kids are screaming so they'll feel better about themselves... right before they sell out to the system and trade in their Jettas for Beamers and their bandanas for Rolexes. And get with the money-grubbing, power-worshipping, spic-bashing program. Just like you did.

>Why not save yourselves the fight and just move to >Tijuana. It's the shithole I think you're dreaming of.

Hey, fuck you too buddy. And your mother. And the horse you both rode in on.

Ah, you know I'm only joking. We lefties will never have the starch to go mano-a-mano with meat-eating 'haters. Vegetarians can't even lift a gun, much less aim it and shoot straight. Right?

Right?

So go on, deliver those messages of carefully reasoned hatred. We can read between the lines just fine.

You're probably asking, what would that asshole ANonRacist do to stop illegal immigration?

First, I'd crack down on the corporations that hire undocumented workers. Sure, they'll try to bribe their way out of the fines and penalties, but then you crack down on bribery and corruption too. Let a few politicians swing for once. Within two decades the word will go out: no sweet deal in America, so don't risk either the desert or the river.

Next, I'd legalize all the workers already here and put them on the path to citizenship. And their families back home too, so we will no longer be a society that pretends to be honest but secretly encourages criminal behavior and the marginalization of broad demographic groups. Yep, all them $64 words.

In plain English, for you whiteys: I'd make all Americans equal again. No more spics and no more 'haters. Just hard-working citizens who pay their taxes, enjoy well-earned benefits, speak whatever language they please, and fight for their rights under the law.

After all, it's the duty of oppressed people everywhere to rise up against tyranny. Don't take my word for it. Ask President Bush.

Since we've imported all these neo-slaves we can damn well accept the obligation to treat them as humans now they're here. Pay for their social services with new taxes on the rich, who are the real leeches and welfare moms in this country. It ain't the poor you should be resenting, friend. It's your bosses' boss, who gets $3 million a year to hobnob and dream up clever ways to break the law without going to jail or admitting any wrongdoing. These are the real heroes of the right, which tells us all we need to know about the character of people on the right. 'Nuff said.

What do you make a year, M.? $40K? $50K? Your CEO's got you bent over, holding your ankles while he fucks you in the ass. He tells you it's the fault of liberals and welfare moms and you believe him. You beg him to go faster and fuck you harder. You moan about how much you love it, and how you'll always be his bitch.

You've been brainwashed, amigo. How many hours of TV you watch every night? The national average is four, I shit you not. Four hours of trash pumped into your brain nightly, so of course you can't think straight.

That's how they did it in Nazi Germany too. Only back then it was the Volkischer Beobachter instead of Fox News and Josef Goebbels instead of Karl Rove.

Think about it. Let it sink in awhile, and we can talk more later.

Well, been great chatting with y'all. Good luck with your political goals and may the best ideas win.

ANonRacist

A lot of leftists 'round here like to portray themselves as wearers of the Good Guy Badge.

Self-annointed wearers of the Badge think that no matter how screwed-up or backwards their beliefs, or even when history and/or factual data prove them wrong, it doesn't matter because their intentions were good.

"Let illegal immigrants invade America, what could it hurt?"

"Free healthcare for everyone! We'll worry about who pays for it later!"

"Everyone deserves a living wage! The stockboy at the grocery store deserves to make as much as doctors!"

"If you disagree with me, you're a racist-fascist-homophobe and that's final!"

When these leftist "intelligentsia" deem themselves "anti-racists" or "non-racists" I wonder who they're trying to convince, others or themselves?

Hector Chavez go back to Mexico and take your family with you!

An old man kicked yo asses in Garden Grove! All by his lonesome.
And he got away with it!!!!!


Eat that Chavez!

Americans are waking up asshole!

Ergo writes:

>When these leftist "intelligentsia" deem themselves "anti-racists" or "non-racists" I wonder who they're trying to convince, others or themselves?

Both, of course. It's what you say and do that makes you who you are, and you have to prove it all the time. Does going to church on Sundays make you a Christian? Certainly not; it takes more than that. Does shaking the hand of a black man make you a non-racist? Not by itself, no.

As for sneering at my credentials, well... they're at least as good as yours, don't you think? Try addressing my ideas directly and not resorting to character assassination. That shit may fly in today's spin-happy Republican universe, but it won't for long, I assure you.

Once Americans have listened long enough to the "nuke 'em! Nuke 'em all!" sentiment underlying half of all rightist rhetoric, the pendulum will begin its slow swing back toward the center. You don't want your daughter growing up amid crazed psychotics, do you?

Thanks for posting!

ANonRacist

>When these leftist "intelligentsia" deem themselves "anti-racists" or "non-racists" I wonder who they're trying to convince, others or themselves?

Both, of course. It's what you say and do that makes you who you are, and you have to prove it all the time. Does going to church on Sundays make you a Christian? Certainly not; it takes more than that. Does shaking the hand of a black man make you a non-racist? Not by itself, no.

>>> There’s a HUGE difference between proclaiming oneself to be a Christian and proclaiming oneself to be the Christ.

As for sneering at my credentials, well... they're at least as good as yours, don't you think? Try addressing my ideas directly and not resorting to character assassination. That shit may fly in today's spin-happy Republican universe, but it won't for long, I assure you.

>>> Actually, my post had nothing to do with you specifically…there are plenty of others around here proclaiming they’re ‘anti-racist’ and thus implying infallibility.

>>> But I took a moment to check-out one of your posts.

ANon: You're probably asking, what would ANonRacist do to stop illegal immigration? First, I'd crack down on the corporations that hire undocumented workers. Sure, they'll try to bribe their way out of the fines and penalties, but then you crack down on bribery and corruption too. Let a few politicians swing for once. Within two decades the word will go out: no sweet deal in America, so don't risk either the desert or the river.

>>>> I agree with the idea of penalizing corporations but your intentions I think, are more severe, as in dismantling them. I’m not an anti-capitalist, neither are most Americans.

Anon: Next, I'd legalize all the workers already here and put them on the path to citizenship. And their families back home too, so we will no longer be a society that pretends to be honest but secretly encourages criminal behavior and the marginalization of broad demographic groups. Yep, all them $64 words.

>>>> Legalizing the criminals we have here already will have the opposite effect of the “crackdown” on businesses. You don’t reward crime, it’s as simple as that. I’m for deporting the lot of them, I don’t care how long it takes. WW2 cleanup took a long time too but it was still done (on the U.S. dime, as always).

>>>> There are other options too. Taking a balance of oil from Mexico to pay for the damage caused by this current crop of illegals.

In plain English, for you whiteys: I'd make all Americans equal again. No more spics and no more 'haters. Just hard-working citizens who pay their taxes, enjoy well-earned benefits, speak whatever language they please, and fight for their rights under the law.

>>>> It’s hard to fight for equality when you throw in “you whiteys.” If you really want to help ‘the downtrodden,’ you’d be for offering them more opportunity through capitalism, in spite of its flaws.

>>>> Looking at history, communism and socialism usually thrived when a vengeful populace tired of oppressive tyrants or royalty. The trouble with those two is they become the same demon, only now with a hundred or thousand heads instead of one (or one absolute ruler like Mao).

>>>> The leftist philosophy goes nowhere because how can one balance a flawed -ism like capitalism with Utopianism?


Once Americans have listened long enough to the "nuke 'em! Nuke 'em all!" sentiment underlying half of all rightist rhetoric, the pendulum will begin its slow swing back toward the center.

>>> The current R's in office are already centrists. They don't go far enough except on flimsy issues.

You don't want your daughter growing up amid crazed psychotics, do you?

>>> The last batch of crazed pscyhotics were caught attacking peacefully assembled citizens at a Women's Club in Garden Grove.

Thanks for posting!

>>> You’re welcome. More on the way.

Ahhh, much better. Thank you for engaging.

>MM are the next Civil Rights Movement

Perhaps if they were having their civil rights violated, that might be true. Civil rights movements are for those who are being treated unfairly, yes? Seems to me that with the backing of the Gubernator and the police, the MM don't need any additional help..

>>> There’s a HUGE difference between proclaiming oneself to be a Christian and proclaiming oneself to be the Christ.

Uh, okay. But what brought that on? I am the Christ only on alternate Tuesdays, you know that. I wasn't attempting to proclaim otherwise.

>>> Actually, my post had nothing to do with you specifically…there are plenty of others around here proclaiming they’re ‘anti-racist’ and thus implying infallibility.

Fair enough; I apologize. None of us is infallible, unless one of us is the Pope.

>>> But I took a moment to check-out one of your posts.

>>>> I agree with the idea of penalizing corporations but your intentions I think, are more severe, as in dismantling them. I’m not an anti-capitalist, neither are most Americans.

No, I'd never suggest dismantling them. I'd love to see executive pay capped, but what are the odds of that happening? The fines for hiring undocumented workers need only be large enough to encourage companies to hire U.S. citizens instead. Keep in mind though, that translates to a lot of moolah - you'd have to raise quite a few salaries to make them enticing to the native-born.

You'd also have to create a lot of new regulators, another reason the right would never back such a plan. Free market theory says "get rid of all the cops." Uh-huh, as if Enron, Global Crossing, Adelphia, Tyco, and all the rest never occurred...

Time would no doubt find the best solution. If the fines were too high, judges would knock them down. Too low, and the hiring of undocumented workers would go on.

>>>> Legalizing the criminals we have here already will have the opposite effect of the “crackdown” on businesses. You don’t reward crime, it’s as simple as that. I’m for deporting the lot of them, I don’t care how long it takes. WW2 cleanup took a long time too but it was still done (on the U.S. dime, as always).

They're not criminals, but let's leave that for the moment.

There are two problems with your approach. First, you would defiitely have race riots as a result. Nobody wants a civil war, not if it can be avoided, so large-scale deportations aren't an option even if we wanted them. I'm not sure we would, because remember, business will need those low-wage workers for awhile yet.

Second, remember what happened to African-Americans after the Civil War. Their nations of family origin didn't want them back after emancipation. It would be the same in South America, I predict; those countries are happy to have rid themselves of what they see as excess population.

So here are the choices: we either kill 'em or we keep 'em. If we keep 'em, there are two additional choices: treat 'em like trash, or treat 'em like humans. You already know how I feel on that one. What's the main difference between conservatives and liberals? Conservatives call lots of people trash. Liberals try like hell not to.

>>>> There are other options too. Taking a balance of oil from Mexico to pay for the damage caused by this current crop of illegals.

Here again, you can't have that discussion with Mexico without inflaming all sorts of racial tensions on both sides of the border.

I find it helpful to think of racism in the same terms one would think of religious beliefs. You're unlikely to make a large number of converts in either case, so don't count on swaying people over to your views. Go ahead, make a good-faith effort, but plan on people holding stubbornly to whatever beliefs they started out with.

Anyhow it would be difficult to claim "damage" when U.S. businesses have profited so much from using undocumented workers. Who is the injured party? Wouldn't it make just as much sense to ask U.S. corporations to disgorge some profit to the state and local governments that picked up the slack?

>>>> It’s hard to fight for equality when you throw in “you whiteys.”

That was only for shock value. I'm white myself, as I mention elsewhere in the post.

Sometimes I mock racist rhetoric to help people realize the idiocy of it. Dunno if it works, but I try.

> If you really want to help ‘the downtrodden,’ you’d be for offering them more opportunity through capitalism, in spite of its flaws.

If only that worked. Last I looked, the races and sexes were pretty much locked into stereotyped categories of pay and work. No one ever makes it all the way from the bottom to the top in this country; that's a myth. And undocumented workers, usually, don't even make it out of the basement.

I'm not knocking capitalism. Think about it: with the exception of a few half-baked social experiments, capitialism is all there ever has been. But the kind that says, "let the markets be totally free," that's scary. There's no financial incentive to treat people equally. In fact, there's a strong incentive to reduce some people to slavery, because that is the ultimate in cost reduction. Government regulation, sad to say, will always be needed to protect people from each other. It's a historic role that you'll find enshrined in the Constitution. Read it and see!

But try telling it to the far right. They believe in free markets the way Muslims believe in Allah.

What I would do to help the downtrodden is several things:

1. Guarantee them good jobs. You need a job to survive in this country, right? The Constitution says you have a right to live. Therefore you have a right to a job.

2. Guarantee them affordable housing.

3. Guarantee them quality health care, affordable prescriptions, and affordable food and drink.

How to pay for it all? Simple. Burn Bill Gates at the stake and take his money. One guy dies, $17 billion party for the rest of us! Whenever you need more, just burn another rich white guy.

I'm kidding.

You'd need to restructure all of society to accomplish these things. But I count human suffering as important, as would any other man or woman of conscience. Sorry, but Bible-based "I don't give a damn" arguments just won't cut it anymore. Every man is your brother; get over it.

To make it all happen, I'd get the poor to fight for their rights. I'd have them overturn every rich and corrupt politician that gets put up for election. That's not a Democratic or a Republican approach, obviously. That's pure power to the people.

It's all quite constitutional and non-violent. And it's no more utopian than the current Republican plan to dominate forever.

>>>> Looking at history, communism and socialism usually thrived when a vengeful populace tired of oppressive tyrants or royalty. The trouble with those two is they become the same demon, only now with a hundred or thousand heads instead of one (or one absolute ruler like Mao).

I'd go so far as to argue that like all isms they were phony ideologies. There has only been one real form of government: the one where guys with weapons exercise authority over the rest of us.

Case in point: America. It is a republic, not a democracy. It was never a democracy. But we always say that it is. Why? Are we democratic in the same way the People's Democratic Republic of Vietnam is democratic, because we say we are?

Wishful thinking is one thing, good government another.

>>>> The leftist philosophy goes nowhere because how can one balance a flawed -ism like capitalism with Utopianism?

Again, I think all isms are false. There are guys with weapons, those in power. There are owners and slaves (or near-slaves, a.k.a. labor). There are markets and investments and people squabbling over who owns what, and what resources they want to exploi, and who pays for the damages. There are slaves who tire of being slaves and plot to become owners, and former owners plotting to become owners once more.

Your ism fights with my ism for supreme power. That was the whole point of the ism, to get people to enlist. Who cares if the banner is red, blue or green? The only real game is the power struggle itself, as we are seeing so often in Congress these days.

How much better if we could just sat down and negotiated, citizen to citizen, like rational people. But that would require the rightists to abandon the rhetoric of total victory, and leftists to abandon the rhetoric of... of what? Mild indignation?

>>> The current R's in office are already centrists. They don't go far enough except on flimsy issues.

Meaning you're for dropping the bomb right now?

I assure you, the R's in power now are only slightly less extreme than Hitler or Stalin. You may not have noticed, but we are painfully close to WWIII as it is.
Christian-America vs. Islam, that's what they'd call it. It would go waaaaay beyond revenge for 9/11.

>>> The last batch of crazed pscyhotics were caught attacking peacefully assembled citizens at a Women's Club in Garden Grove.

Nope, I knew some of them personally. Idealists, yes, but not crazed psychotics. Now the Minuteman driving his vehicle into the crowd, that might well be psychotic. Why was it SO important that he pull into that parking lot right then? Wouldn't a sane person have parked somewhere else?

Put it into perspective: if you ran down someone in your driveway, and you were sane and possessed of your senses at the time, wouldn't that be a good argument for homicide? Or at least vehicular manslaughter?

The MM was charged with neither.

I'm sure a lot of the MM are legitimate patriotic citizens. But I'm sure it also has more than its share of psychotic nutcases. The latino community also seems pretty sure of this. Can you prove them wrong?

It only takes one wacko to snuff a life somewhere out in the desert, far from the not-so-watchful eyes of the law. That is the real threat. And tell me you'd shed a tear for the poor illegal alien. I've heard it all too often from the people on the right: "It's not my problem." BLING!

That's why we need to stop the MM. It's not the KKK, but it's only a few letters off.

ANonRacist

Ergo sounds like a Commie weirdo!

We Americans are waking up! Get that straight.
We are not intimidated!

Like General George Patton once said:

"Americans love WAR!"

He was so right!

You made me laugh, in a good way.

All power to the people.

Silly, stupid, niave, white, suburban liberal fuckwits...

Darwin is coming for you...You are the only humans of our species that practice self de-evolution.

You get what you deserve, I cant wait to hear that your daughter was raped and you were murdered by Mexican Illegals...Oh what a happy, glorious day that will be.

Fuck these White Supremacists kunts !

Those guys are just trying to put a lid on the influx of drug dealers and hoodie boys who will have no access to legitimate jobs and have no business sneaking in at night. If white people did what the "undocumented workers" do it would be called zionistic imperialism and suicide bombers would be used aginst the "white peril"...so why is it OK for Mejicanos to do what is imperialist invasion if whites do it???

Aside from the hypocrisy of the left, it just simply is nothing at all like "fascism" which is party based mass movement to take control of the executive power of the state. This movement the MInutemen is a single issue coalition and no more fascist than Indymedia is the Cominterm.

...so, using terms like "fascist" is unacceptable hyperebole...

...but using terms like "invasion" is not?

...now, who's the hypocrite?

It is not a refutation when you point of Gilchrist's use of the term "invasion", which is hyperbole, as a reply to the correction of the sloppy use of the term fascist to describe The Minute Man project.

Nor is it hypocrisy, which would only even be meaningful if I myself had used the term "invasion", which I have not.

"I cant wait to hear that your daughter was raped and you were murdered by Mexican Illegals...Oh what a happy, glorious day that will be."

That's sorta the reason why all this anti illegal Mexican (I mean c'mon, as if there's a problem with an overwhelming influx of Panamanian or Dutch illegals) stuff came into being in the first place.

I suspect though, as has long been the case, that natural selection will probably still shine on our side. I mean it's not as though the Mexican culture has actually set the woods on fire or anything. Unless, of course, refining the art of dumping old couches on the curb or hanging christmas lights on the shack all year long is evolution.

da admitted racist dancing shitpile: "...our side..."

...and just who would that be? Obviously, you can't seriously mean American "culture"...since that is broad enough to encompass the seder as well as the quinceanera?

...so who is this 'our side", shitpile?

...and a one-a and a two-a....

Sharona get educated.