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All images © 2005 Mukai Photography. All Rights Reserved. Images may not be reproduced, republished, or reposted without writtem permission from copyright holder.

These pictures could be eastern Europe. The hate filled faces of the anti-soveriegnist communists are always the same. Ignorance displayed for all to see. They know nothing but what they were told this morning. What they did today will be forgotton tomorrow.

I know I am often critical of organized/centralized protests that have a top down structure, but I want to take my hat off to everyone involved in yesterdays counter demonstration. Everyone from the Anarchists, to the communists, to the liberals, to ANSWER came together, supported each other, and stood for justice, even when it got tense. I appreciate everyone standing his or her ground with each other. This was a great day for equality!

socialism? are you people high or what?

to have sent one of the S.O.S. patriots to the hospital and now in intensive care.

California is a state of the United States of America. It is not Aztlan, it never was. MeCHa and other La Raza racists take note, you cannot emulate the Jihadist terrorists with impunity.

The racism and fascism on display comes directly from the anti-American Left who loves the totalitarianism of beating the crap out of all who disagree with their cult.

Thanks for the pictures. I hope the Baldwin PD uses them in their investigation and arrests for assault/battery and GBI due to the Left racism and jack-booted thuggery.

I really don't give a shit about any of your causes, but who's the hot chick?

Does she speak english?

Holding a white trash sign while telling whites they are racist ? If that is your mentality, plz show up at more SOS events, as we need you there to show the true face of racism !

One may be surprised to learn that not all Hispanics are of Mexican descent and that most of us do not support illegal immigration. Do not underestimate our determination to fight for the integrity of these united states.As an American of Spanish ,American Indian and Jewish descent , I condemn the audacity of illegal aliens demanding access to the rights that MY forefathers fought for! Furthermore , Aztlan is a myth!Why dont these Mexicans go back to"Mexico Lindo" and demand that Vincente Fox take care of his people.?You are not our responsibility!

Just because some turncoats decided that Americans should feel pity for third world Mexico , it certainly does not mean that we should hand it to them on a silver plate. The rest of America is finally waking up and will fight for her sovereignty! Do not continue to bask in your false security because it is a certainty that Americans of all creeds,races and political persuasions are feed up with the demands from an undeserving people.

"jack-booted thuggery" refers to the police.

The "people" can't all afford to wear those expensive shoes.

"WE have the REAL ID act which just passed the House and Senate."

More encroachments on our personal liberty, and you gloat.

"One may be surprised to learn that not all Hispanics are of Mexican descent and that most of us do not support illegal immigration."

Hey, I know that as well as anyone. I live around a bunch of Chicano who gripe now and then about immigration. The problem with SOS is that they organize racist demos that have nothing to do with "illegal immigration." THINK ABOUT IT, foolio. THINK HARD. What does that concrete monument have to do with immigration? NOTHING AT ALL.

If you think it does, fine... a lot of people think that Real ID is also THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST... and they're called "paranoids." Likewise, if any sign of Mexican culture, or multicultural values, is a sign of "Reconquista", we'll call you what you are: "paranoid Mexican haters."

Holy shit. The monument was dedicated to a rich Mexican American businessman who became a prominent citizen of Baldwin Park. Conservative Mexican Americans should LOVE that monument. How much idiocy can we stand? SOS can't even figure THAT out. Like DUH. SOS deserves to be crushed for pure idiocy.

Is ok to hate us!! I'm Asian and a proud MECHISTA and I'm down for the chicano movement anytime. The sos is dumb! and I quote "mecha only cares for mexicans."wrong!!!!!!!!!! theres whites, blacks,asians, and gente from latin america in MEChA. I wonder why if they only care for mexicans? Illegals are here to stay and nothing could stop them! not even the real id!!

Hated by many!

Love by few!

Respected by all!

MEChA!

Colonialists will always lose! Time, determination, and your own idiocy are on our side.

It doesn't matter if you call it self-determination, or anarchy - people will eventually throw off this oppressive system. The cracks in the wall are bigger everyday.

Your anger shows how desperate and pathetic you are. There's still a chance to come around, take it.

The REAL ID act is another big government encroachment on privacy. It's more militarization and police control of daily life.

You sound like a police-state-conservative.

Also, I saw photos, from the SOS side, and they didn't show bottles on the ground. If they threw "bottles" in some organized fashion, as you indicated, there would be a lot of plastic bottles on the ground. The only way to tactically arrange missle attacks is in volleys, where hundreds are tossed at the opponents at the same time, so the missiles cannot be dodged. (See, you *can* learn things from war video games.)

If there were 500 counter protesters, they certainly could have organized to toss water bottles en-masse, but, they didn't. It was probably just one or two people who threw bottles.

Each side showed restraint. SOS showed it because, to do otherwise, would have been suicide. The counterprotesters showed restraint too; those are some of the angriest looking photos I've ever seen. They were pissed off!

The sleeping giant that was woken up was anti-racism. The Fred L Rice site showed that much. He's a guy who actually agrees with some SOS points, but, he was opposed to SOS's bigotry.

Also, it seems to be SOS that's constantly advocating for arming themselves to, presumably, shoot counter protesters and take potshots at suspected "illegal" "invaders." If there's anyone who's going to get violent, I'd bet 3:1 it's SOS, when they feel like they're in a desperate, losing situation.

"I am assuming the 500 cowards that the 50 enormously brave SOS people, had to face, were illegal Mexicans. No, American would be screaming,
"We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us!!!", only illegal Mexicans, chant that stupid chant, not legal immigrants, or Americans."

Do you mean the RACIST SOS!! you are stupid assuming something you don't know about!! the crowd was like 300. 25% was white, like 7 asians Including my self, like 5 blacks, 1 arab, and native americans but you didn't see pictures of them or me because it was going to make the RACIST SOS look bad! all you see was pictures of mexicans, and are you sure they were illegals. Most of them are college students and some of are brave soldiers who went to IRAQ and fought for you and me. the SOS is not anti-illegal they are anti-mexican. next time you post something this stupid get your facts straight. Ignorant!!

"50 people of SOS, had the unadulterated courage to face off 500 illegal Mexicans, all by themselves, without throwing a punch. They showed courage, beyond courage, and restraint. That is how strong and brave Americans are. "

and they were not by themselves they had like 100 cops protecting them, and if they have so much courage the should go to iraq and fight in the war. IDIOT.

I have ASIAN PRIDE but I also have MECHISTA PRIDE!!

Hee Hee!!!

I love the fact, that I have upset so many people with my post.

You are all anti-American, because if you were truly, an American, you would be for eqality, that is what this nation stands for.

We all have to follow the rule of law. No preferential treatment for anyone.

We are not against Mexicans, we are against Mexicans who come here illegally.

See, that is where you racists, do not get the point, becuase you have criminal minds. You actually think it is okay to break our laws, and you should not be punished.

We are against discrimination. Americans are being discriminated against. We have to follow the rule of law, if we do not, we are punished.

THE RULE OF LAW, THE RULE OF LAW, THE RULE OF LAW!!!!! LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL.

Do you get the message yet, you law breaker, you.

That is what all this anger, is about. You, being taught wrong, not knowing right from wrong.

We, the American people, are not going to stand back and watch one group of people, believe that they should have preferential treatment over the rest of us.

Americans, Americans, are not white, we are white, brown, Asian, every color.

This is about discrimination, against all Americans and other nations.

We must all, obey the rule of law.

RULE OF LAW!!!!!! RULE OF LAW!!!!! RULE OF LAW!!!!
RULE OF LAW!!!!!! RULE OF LAW!!!!! RULE OF LAW!!!!
LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL LEGAL

I realize, that I am wasting my time, and that criminal minds, do not get it. You must be punished for your crime of crossing my country's border illegally.

As long as these illegal Mexican invaders, walk around freely, without being punished for breaking our laws, there will be no peace.

Hee Hee Hee Hee, I am loving it.

Justice for all!!!! If every other nation has to come here legally, so doesn't Mexico.

If you want my country, let's have a war, and you can fight and die for it, like my ancestors did.

As for the people on your side watching, probably the majority were just spectators. But, the ones who assaulted the elderly lady, were nothing but cowards.

Of course the police officers were there, to protect our constitutional right to free speech.

Guess what, the next time, I am going to demand the Naitonal Guard be called up, and while they are there, they can start rounding up the criminal illegal Mexican invaders, you are sheltering and deport them. SEE, WE CAN HAVE YOU DEPORTED, BECAUSE YOU DO NOT BELONG HERE, RULE OF LAW.

AGAIN!!!!! RULE OF LAW!!!!!! RULE OF LAW!!!!!

NEXT TIME, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE WHATEVER YOU THROW AT US. HECK, I AM EVEN WILLING TO LET YOU KICK THE ROYAL CRAP OUT OF ME, JUST TO GET IT ON TAPE, AND HAVE YOUR ILLEGAL BUTTS THROWN OUT OF MY COUNTRY.

Heck, kill me, drag me threw the streets, if it will get you illegal criminal Mexican invaders, deported and punished, my death will be worth it.

The only rationale for elites wanting illegal aliens in the USA is that it lowers the whole wage structure, and it sets people against each other--allowing the elites to rule by divide and conquer. It additionally keeps them from working toward democracy in their homelands, making it easier for the USA to dominate their home contries when these labor refugees are always fleeing instead of standing to fight and organize.

The increased split wage structure around citizens, visa holders, and illegal aliens in the USA puts a whole framework of labor into a context where they have no rights and can be deported at will whenever they complain; furthermore, it shifts everything towards a labor framework similar to a caste framework as labor rights are eroded for all.

You call this honoring them? No wonder it is going on for a quite a while (started in 1954, with the lack of labor laws [and lack of taxes on 'export' back to the U.S., a federal encouragement of this type of caste
labor] around corporations in Puerto Rico, I think). The U.S. is being intentionally dismantled economically while people are busy calling each other down for "racism". What nonsense.

I'm right there with Hispanicas Who Are Real Americans: don't think for a minute that the all members of the established Latino-American community support illegal immigration. I'm of Basque, Mexican, German, Spanish Canary Islander, and Bolivian descent, and I've always thought that MEChA is a bombastic hate group with little real evidence to support its flights of historical fancy. There never was an Aztlan, and there never will be.

Illegal aliens, especially those of this most recent (and largest) wave often hold assimilated Hispanic-Americans in particular contempt, as if we're supposed to be the one exception to the hundreds of foreign national groups who've assimilated into American society. My relation (and my family's) to my heritage is more like that of most Irish-Americans: it's a source of pride, but not an excuse to disengage from the wider culture. My ancestors moved here (LEGALLY) to create a better life for themselves and to contribute to what they fully recognized as a Western, anglophone, and culturally European-derived society. The last thing they wanted to do was recreate the conditions that they fled from in Latin America.

I have a question for all the diluted Mechistas: why are you so ashamed of the Spanish part of your heritage? I've seen fish-pale, iberian-featured Latinos calling themselves "Mexica"(Aztec) and loudly denigrating the European blood that was "raped into" them. In the 16th century, Native Americans still hadn't figured out the wheel yet, and Europeans were just beginning their conquests of the rest of the globe. In other words, the inhabitants of the Americas were sitting ducks. At least the Spanish mixed with, rather than outright exterminated the natives in their sphere of influence. Things could've been much worse: just ask the few remaining Cherokee, Navajo, Apache, etc.

I meant to type "deluded" in the first sentence of the third paragraph, but "diluted" actually adds a humorous angle to my commnets, so what the hey. ;)

There's nothing better then a fine long thread detailing the inane blatherings of the hobbyist protesters that swarm this place. Fools like johnk (did you actually use the term "foolio"?) and more rational trying to wax philosophical about the inherent "racism" of the SOS. Other idots chiming in with the fantastical nonsense of the future Rise of Aztlan (uh, if Mexico is any model of this great future society, how about we just nip it in the bud).
Of course the pics of the usual suspects and their tried and true "Nazi" metaphors are always a treat but where the hell were the Aztec Dancers? Who the hell forgot to call these goofs?
Unfortunately for all you lefty bandwagoneers, the tide is definetely turning and the free ride of ILLEGAL immigrants is more than likely coming to an end. It's simple math. There just aren't enough resources on any level to support ourselves and a huge illegal chunk of a neighboring failed society.
But, by all means keep fighting the good fight. Your irrelevant and inane protests are so earnestly entertaining and the faux intellectual gibberish from the likes of MR and johnk are endlessly amusing.

"In the 16th century, Native Americans still hadn't figured out the wheel yet, "

A fact that is ALWAYS overlooked.

Native Americans simply never discovered the wheel. The circle yes. The wheel, no.

Just an interesting little aside.

I don't believe they ever even entered what would be considered the Bronze Age.

Everything going on wih this situation is Nationalistic. The sacred Sovereignty of the U.S. is what is at stake. Mexican is not a "race". It is a Nationality. The SOS is not racist. The looters coming in would be illegal no matter what "race" they were. As we have seen in the past 25 years, when someone plays the race card, they frrl they are losing. It is the refuge of the simplistic. Look at the race pimps Jackson and Sharpton for clarification of this

When the tide of public opinion changes like it is now, even the supposed 'masterminds' behind the illegal invasion on both sides of the border, which may include certain large corporations, welfare-dependent activists, etc will be powerless to stop it.

I'm embarrassed by the White Power kkklowns here, but they have a right to their opinions...they also (dangerously) fill a void because ordinary White people have become ashamed of who they are.

I, for one, don't look forward to war, but if you have more rats than grain, you're gonna starve.

I do not look forward to war either.

But, like you said, there are way too many rats to feed.

War, will happen, and the losers will be all of us, and all because, some (illegal Mexican immigrants) insist on breaking our laws.

There is no way, they can win, when this war breaks out.

If John McCain, Ted Kennedy, Jim Kolbe, Luis Guiterez(spelled wrong, I know), and Jeff Flakes', insane, traitorous guest worker program, was to insanely pass, there will be a war. Oh, yeah, we cannot forget to list Joe Lieberman, and Chris Cannon of Utah, as two more of the biggest traitors, in our U. S. Congress.


Any bloodshed, will fall directly at the feet of the traitors, such as those, I have named above. There are more traitors, but we know who they are. Grover Norquist and Tamar Jacoby, are two more. There are even more, and thanks to c-span, you can see them on video, betraying us all.

The thing is, what the Hispanic population, needs to realize, is that the blood of innocent legal immigrants, and Americans, of hispanic descent will be shed.

Again, this war will not be about race, but about one nation (MEXICO), BREAKING OUR LAWS.

I hate war, but justice must prevail, and in the end, Americans will have their country again.

We must bring our soldiers home from Iraq, put them on the border, and start rounding up these illegal Mexican invaders. They will have to bring them home once, the war begins, between Mexico and America, and the invaders. I do not think it will be much of a war, seeing our superiority, but people will die, and it is sad.

It is sad, but we Americans, have a right to our own country, with our own culture, and to have citizens, that respect equality, and the rule of law.

GOOD WILL PREVAIL OVER EVIL!!!! ALL BECAUSE OF CRIMINAL ILLEGAL MEXICAN INVADERS!!!

HONESTLY, I REALLY DO LOVE MEXICANS, WHO TRULY RESPECT US. THE PROBLEM IS, WE NEED TO HEAR YOUR VOICE. STOP THE WAR.

When people talk about "racism", it's not about the narrow idea of "race". We're talking about bigotry.

Yes, Mexico is not a race. Jews are not a race either, but, when they were killed by Hitler, that was obviously *racism*. The Irish are not a race, but when they English discrminate against them, it's racism. Some Japanese express racism against Koreans, though they are both Asians. The essence of racism is oppression.

SOS is nationalistic. Saying it's "nations" not "races" is splitting meaningless hairs. You can have a multicultural, nationalistic, bigoted polticial movement. Different groups can unite against another group, and be "racist" against that group.

The essence of racism is drawing lines between groups of people, then, one group (usualy the one with popular power) scapegoats the other group.

See the movie Hotel Rwanda to get an idea of what I'm talking about.

I suspect that average Mexicans, upon seeing American tanks zooming into Mexico City at some unknown but sure-to-happen date in the next 10 years, will be pleased, either secretly or openly.

With the corrupt socialist/narco-terrorist regime that rules Mexico overthrown, investors will return with renewed confidence and the framework for a real middle class there can emerge.

When Mexico's natural resource riches are exposed to the free market rather than a corrupt socialist lockdown, their economy will flourish.

We're going to need a functional Mexico to help battle the Dragon, even if that war only stays economic.

Cries of "Racism!" whenever the Left doesn't get its way are so common now as to be safely ignored.

It's a good thing.

The American Left is out of gas, ideas and Vaseline; it's supporters can't even vote for victicrat socialists in good faith.

The average American jane/joe is smarter than leftists think they are, esp. in the Internet Age where both sides of an issue are heard more often than not.

A few recent kkk types have posted here. Compare their rhetoric to SOS's real and vital mission.

LEGALS YES.

ILLEGALS NO. THAT'S THE ISSUE, BUB.

SOS were the first to use the word, about the monument.

Here's a link to the hidden nazi posts.

http://la.indymedia.org/news/hidden.php?id=126428#126724

Yes, let's compare:

Which side do the Nazis support, IMC or SOS? SOS

Which forum had Nazis on it, because there's no registration system? IMC
Which forum has Nazis on it, desite the fact there is registration? SOS

What do the Nazis and SOS have in common?
Extreme patriotism and nationalism.
A fascination with the military.
Some SOS members state that they don't like Mexicans, or, at least, Chicanos, and all Nazis seem to dislike Mexicans, as a group.
A strong interest in borders and who's in and who's out.

If you read below, the leader of SOS says the group is going to go more militant, and organize in the streets, to become strong. This is akin to the Brownshirts, mentioned above in the Nazi post. Read the final three paragraphs.

--------------------------------------------
There have been a few posters who disagree with our choice to protest the monument in Baldwin Park. Some feel that the target in and of itself is not worthy of the fuss, the situation is too dangerous or that it is not really in line with the goal of combating illegal immigration.

The purpose of this thread is not to debate the merits of these arguments. What I would like to do here is give an explanation of my thought processes so that you guys can better understand why I am doing the things that I am doing.

Let me begin by stating that I believe the overarching reason for these differences of opinion and so forth has to do with perspectives.

Many, if not all of you, are looking from the activist/concerned American perspective. I have to look at this not just as an activist who is concerned for our nation, but as a leader who is trying to build an organization.

Essentially, I am an entrepreneur. I am trying to take an idea (which Ill expand on in just a moment) and grow it. I am attempting to build something from scratch, literally. Just one person with an idea/dream.

This idea is predicated on a singular notion that Americans are fed up with illegal immigration and want to get involved with an outfit that is serious about working to solve these problems. I sincerely believe that "if I build it, they will come." Wil it take some salesmanship, some cojoling, etc? Sure.

But...I sincerely believe that people want to be a part of a different type of organization. An organization more concerned with winning and being in the face of our adversaries than playing nice and trying to be friends with everyone.

I am trying to tap into this seething anger.

Now...how does a person do that. How does a person build an organization from scratch without any money and without asking for any money from anyone else?

You have to get visible and you have to create positive momentum. So, the first thing I did was do a day labor site protest. I knew that we would scare people away and no one would get hired. I knew that I had at least one almost for sure media contact to give us some publicity. It didnt cost a penny, it was effective and served to recruit more people.

Did it change the world? No, it didn't. I would be delusional to think that I could make monumental changes with 20 people.

This is guerrilla warfare. I have to take what I am given and manipulate and exploit it to the best of my ability.

So, after that rally in December, the Redondo Beach crackdown became an issue and we went to Redondo Beach. Was I trying to game the system? Absolutely. Did I genuinely believe in the effort. Of course.

But, I have to use all the leverage I can get. I have to allow current events to dictate to a degree so that I can get maximum bang for the buck. I have no interest in being a once a month rally group of 20 people. WE NEED TO GROW!

After Redondo Beach, the newscycle was kind of dead. So, I had to create our own event. So, I concocted the "Screw Home Depot" idea for Rancho Cucamonga. It was an ingenius idea. No one had ever heard of that tactic before and I got media coverage from Lou Dobbs because of it.

I was hopeful that it would work, but deep down I pretty much knew that we wouldnt have enough people to make it work.

Then the Burbank/Glendale Home Depot protest was an offshoot of that and spurned on by the fact that they had an actual day labor center out there, upcoming elections in Burbank, etc.

Now, we see these Los Angeles Mexico billboards pop up out of nowhere. We were able to get heavy publicity over this issue. And, as a result of it, I got an email from someone about the Baldwin Park monument.

We had to make a move on the monument, not because it was the most important target, but because it fed off of the billboard issue that was still hot and I needed to keep the media cycle going. As a result, it generated national attention and has helped us massively increase our name recognition and increase our activist numbers.

You don't think that I didn't know that this monument would be a big deal? You don't think I wasn't aware of the fact that Baldwin Park is the lion's den and that the response would be heavy. Granted, I didn't think it would turn into call for riot gear, but I knew it would generate publicity.

That isnt to say I didnt simply for the publicity, as I genuinely believe that this language must be removed.

More to the point, you don't think that I wasn't keenly aware that with the possibility of getting thousands of hits on our site (which we have as a result), that many people would see the Home Depot article on the home page and learn about our fight with them?

I am using these news events to garner attention and membership so that we can move on other targets in greater strength. Trust me! If the people at Home Depot have an IQ above 2, they are very unhappy with us right now. They know I am bringing the hammer.

I have to play one part entrepreneur and one part guerrilla tactician. I dont have the luxury or the resources to simply do what I want to do when I want to do it.

Eventually, we are going to have an activist presence that will intimidate and strike fear into our opponents hearts. Not only because we will have the troop strength to evoke fear, but because of the manner in which we are active.

We take our battles to the streets...something no other organization in the movement has ever done with any consistency or persistence.

I understand where the criticism is coming from. Now you know what I am doing and thinking from my perspective.

johnk,

Having been one to have argued with Joe for several months, I know when he writes the arguements he is trying to answer. Joe is noting that our side had 25 present in Baldwin Park against 300. Our movement does not normally take to the streets, it writes congressmen and engages in logical anaylsis. Joe is not writing about emulating the Nazi Party, he is talking about emulating you.

He notes that on your own website you present photos of yourselves filled with anger and posting obsenities. Joe believes we can match your numbers with steadfastness replacing anger and logic replacing obsenities. And he knows that the vast majority of Americans are behind the logical implementation of law.

Hope this helps.

If you CONSTANTLY have your house broken into over and over again every single night, it is NOT "racist" to simply identify the thieves as belonging to a particular group if in fact it's true.

The ONLY reason that we in California are seemingly against, primarily Mexican illegal immigration, is because almost EVERY illeagl immigrant happens to be Mexican.

If we start calling them Germans or Swedes, will you stop saying we're racist?

Fools.

As a Latino who is opposed to illegal immigration, I have to say that though there are a few racists among those "Anglos" (itself an inaccurately used term in Latino-American parlance) who are active in these movements, most are simply concerned with illegals, whose presence is both an economic and a security threat to our nation. Illegal aliens have a negative economic impact on documented workers- native, immigrant, and guest workers- because undocumented workers drive down wages, as another poster pointed out. They are a national security threat because it would be very easy for an al-Qaeda operative to enter the country with waves of other brown folks (I'm a nice light olive-brown myself. At the time of 9-11, I happened to have a shaggy beard. Boy did I get some dirty looks at the supermarket.). I'm pretty sure Osama can spring for spanish lessons.

Don't be fooled by the knee-jerk yahoos- MEChA and its ilk have long been a joke in the mainstream Latino-American community. I'm a sixth generation American whose Texas family literally WAS "crossed by the border", a phrase which makes no sense, of course, when used by those MEChA mythmakers to promulagate a racialist call for lebensraum in fabled Aztlan.

Please spare me the accusations of treason, because I've heard it all before. Hispanic-Americans need to realize that the illegals who come here, just to send money back to Mexico, are not anymore interested in our welfare than that of other American citizens. It's not an issue of race (not all Latino-Americans are Mexican mestizos). If there were a sudden influx of Russians (not an entirely implausible future scenario), they would be noticed, and they would be resented.

In May 1999, I was touring Birmingham, Alabama with Phil, a 69-year old white supremicist. Former Chief Deputy Federal Marshall for the Northern District of Alabama Dan Moore, with whom I had been staying, had to have his physical therapy, and so assigned me for the day with Phil.

Dan warned me twice that Phil was conservative. Being from Orange County, California, I didn't see how that was a problem. I soon learned that in Birmingham, the term "conservative" did not refer to a belief in financally responsible limited government.

In 1964, when I was eight years old, my mother organized 200 interracial home meetings in the City of Fullerton California to show that people of different races could sit down together and could live side by side. This was a local effort to the state-wide innitiative to end institutionalized racial discrimination in housing. I remember reading the thank you letter sent to her by Governor Edmund G, Brown.

My uncle went on from this effort to serve for a quarter century as Director of the Orange County Fair Housing Council. My Cousin is currently Director of the Orange County Human Relations Commission.

So it was quite an experience to be with Phil. But since I had come to Birmingham to find out what things were really like there in the 1960's, and since I did not know what Dan had up his sleave, I took the companionship as a journalistic experience to listen to him and encourage his view as much as possible so that I could learn.

I had always heard of Southerners that were still fighting the Civil War. Phil was still fighting the Revolutionary War. He explained the difference in English and French thought, and lamented that England had done such a bad job in managing the colonies that it gave an advantage to French thought. He was not the biggest fan of Thomas Jefferson.

I baulked, it only by facial expression, when he told me that the average IQ of a black person was 60. Seeing my reaction, he amended the figure to 70, but only because of the mixture to white blood. Therefore, the abolition of slavery was a choice that society could make, but black slavery would still be moral and Biblical today.

I thought to myself that I had never met a single black person with an IQ approaching 70. As we viewed the civil rights museum, Phil noted how uncomfortable he felt downtown. "They don't like me down here". I felt perfectly fine, even though I was a perfect stranger.

When we pulled into the parking lot of the Gaston Hotel, the sight of a bombing attack meant to kill Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., we met one of those blacks with an IQ approaching 70. At my request, Phil asked a young woman sitting on a step which was the room where the bombing took place.

"What bombing. I don't know about no bombing", she answered.

The thought occured to me that any black person with any intelligence would have left Birmingham and moved to Orange County long ago.

This, my friends, is racism.

To call the belief that borders need to be maintained to protect a society from uncontrolled economic or cultural change is bunk. Even if those crossing the boarders are predominantly of one race or one ethnicity.

Charges of racism are increasingly being met with a deaf ear, particularly from people of my children's generation such as Joe Turner. Joe, after all, went through a high school with a population that was 40% Hispanic.

I suspect that my cousin disagrees with me. I don't know because he has failed to answer my last four letters on the subject. My Mother had a letter published in the Riverside Press Enterprise two weeks ago detailing the difficulty I have in running an honest, legal, and above-board business in competition with those who hire illegal aliens.

JohnK says (in an above post):

"When people talk about "racism", it's not about the narrow idea of "race". We're talking about bigotry."

The Oxford Dictionary says: bigotry |?big?tr?| noun bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

JohnK is a prime example of a Bigot according to the dictionary definition.

So does it folow then that he is also a racist based on his own definition of racism?

I totally condemn Mukai's comment. SOS is for law enforcemnent, not civil war. The last time this happened, 3% of the American population died. That would be the equivalent of 9,000,000 people today.

Everything I am about is to expose and provoke the tensions caused by illegal immigration before they become dangerous and before the concept of Azrtlan is more than a joke or a pipe dream among Hispanics.

If our society comes down to the insanity of street fighting, I'm not going to be on the streets with Mukai chasing Mestisos back to Mexico. I am going to be in the hills with my generator, fuel, food, water, dogs and guns defending my neighborhood until the military restores order in Baldwin Park.

I'll be shoulder to shoulder with my neighnors Jesus and Genero, and I'm not even going to ask to see their documents before inviting them to join my little militia.

Mukai is an example of the type of racist we either teach or ask to go away at SOS.

To Steve Brow:

Our government has betrayed us. They have no intention of enforcing our immigration laws.

If this lawlessness, continues much longer, what other outcome do you see, but violence, and some type of civil war.

I am so against violence, but I and Americans, are more than just angry, about this invasion.

One of the protesters from SOS, said he would have liked to have taken, the straw hat of one of the Hispanic men, on the other side, and beat him down with it. Of course, he did not, but he felt rage.

If SOS, had hundreds with them, instead of the 40 or 50 you had, I truly believe, violence would have broken out.

Unless, President Bush, shuts our borders down, and starts immediate plans to deport these illegal Mexican invaders, how long do you believe things are going to remain peaceful? Again, illegal Mexicans, not legal Mexican immigrants. I hate the fact, that we do say Mexicans, because we do have Mexicans, that have come here legally, and are true Americans.

No one wants war, or bloodshed, but we have to stop this blatant treason of the employers who hire these illegals, and our government officials, who continue to mock the American people, with their inaction.

This invasion, must stop, and there must be, absolutely no guest worker program. These illegal Mexican invaders, must not be rewarded for their crimes against the American people again.

Americans, are still enraged about the 1986 amnesty.

What do you think is going to happen, if our government gives another one to approximately 20 million invaders.

I am willing to fight, truly, to the death, to rid our country of these arrogant illegal Mexican invaders.

Maybe, you will not be asking the hispanic people along side you for documentation, when and if this violence happens. Nor, will I be asking the KKK or brownshirts to stepdown, because we will not know who is who.

You know when I was little, I never thought twice about seeing anyone of hispanic descent, walking down my streets. Now, because of illegal Mexican immigration, I have to wonder, are they legal or illegal.
It is very sad, it really is, that this tragedy has happened, because of lawlessness.

Some of those women looked highly attractive, hardly ugly. Way out of the league of the racist who made that stupid comment.

There has been a large influx of Russians into America (actually, it's a large post-USSR migration, and there are a lot of Ukrainians, and Armenians too). In LA, they are in the Valley and in Hollywood. Many are resented, often, by other Russian-American Jewish people, who feel they're too "immigrant".

Also, Osama or another terrorist group wouldn't send his terrorists through the southern border. He'd use the northern border. I hate to speculate on what race they'd be, but, there are fanatics of all races. They won't be studying Spanish.

Also, it's not fair to call MEChA a joke. Their rhetoric is like a trip back to the 1960s, but, they remain relevant because they give a lot of social support to kids getting through college, and they try to get more kids to go to college. Their words may be racist, but, their deeds are completely anti-racist, and the clubs themselves are racially integrated today.

Here's a link to an article about MEChA. It turns out that guy who manufactured the Cruz Bustamante MEChA is not anti-MEChA, but just made a calculated move to tap into white fears.

http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/04/01/cover-arellano.php

I think if illegal Russian immigrants were pouring into our country in the same numbers that illegal Mexican immigrants are, their would be strong reactions by groups such as SOS.

Once again, as a Hispanic-American, it pisses me off that many illegals regard me as more contemptible than a non-Hispanic white American because I'm somehow a traitor for being fully assimilated into the society that six friggin' generations of my family have lived in(What other immigrant group considers it a positive thing to not fit in?). Then they turn around and presume that I support their plunder of American taxpayer-supported public resources!

I grew up in San Antonio, but I know that Los Angeles also has an established Latino community with deep roots in this country. At the risk of stating the obvious, you don't have to give up your culture in order to assimilate. Take my father. He talks like your typical flat-accented midwesterner, without a hint of a spanglish drawl, but he also speaks rapid-fire, perfectly accented spanish. The latter is generally reserved for private family gatherings and travel, but it's difficult to tell that he's an American when he speaks it, just as his lack of a Spanish surname and accent often lead people to believe that he's Italian or Greek. A lot of Asian-Americans are like this: by the second generation, they're more articulate than most white Americans, yet many can speak the language of their ancestors as well. Ditto Jews with Hebrew. There's no reason why Hispanics can't do the same. Assimilation is not "selling out", its the self-evident pre-requisite for success in ANY society. Imagine trying to do serious business in Mexico without knowing spanish!

The above may seem somewhat off-topic, but it's mainly a preface to this: Many of the Mechistas I've met shun me because I'm supposedly (in the actual words of one of them) a "potato": brown on the outside, white on the inside. Gee, folks, I'm really sorry that I'm an articulate American! What do they expect me to do, fake an accent that I've never had?

It's MEChAs tendency to engage in superficial separatist tactics that really grates on me. As I mentioned before, it's absolutely ridiculous that so many "La Raza" types are ashamed of their Spanish heritage. Why not be proud of who you are, in all your hybrid glory? Hatred for a significant proportion of one's ancestors is not psychologically healthy. It's ironic that the one group in this country that refers to itself as "the race" is not a race at all! Like Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans marry whites in significant numbers, so such separatist rhetoric will ultimately lead to divisions within the Latino community more than anything else.

Many Latino-Americans who are proud of their heritage are staunchly opposed to ILLEGAL immigration because they're loyal Americans who respect the law of the land.

It is sad, that you have to suffer from both sides of the issue.

When we Americans speak so loudly, and full of rage, it really is not towards, Americans of Mexican descent or legal immigrants.

You should be very proud of your full-blooded American heritage. Even though your ancestors come from Mexico (I think that is what you said), you are an American. You should also be proud of your ancestors, that came here from Mexico. Mexico has a very rich culture, and do have very good people.

Right now, though, there are alot (millions and millions) of Mexicans coming here illegally, with the support of their leaders. It has to be stopped.

You are not a traitor to your people, because your people are Americans, regardless of the color of the skin of any of us.

Anyway, enjoy your life, and feel no quilt.

And you men, how can you be effective, in a confrontation with the enemy, if all you do is stand there checking out their women. Leave it to the men, sex before war. Geesch!!!!!! I give up.

"'Their' women?" Beside the fact that you must not have read my post carefully (which says I side with the community, not with SOS), language such as this is a throwback to colonialism or 1940s Germany (remember that scene in "Schindler's List" where Ralph Fiennes is explaining Schindler's fatherly kiss of a Jewish girl to a Gestapo agent as being due to "their" bewitching nature).

Sorry this response is so late. I wrote this lengthy reply, but, the computer overheated and shut down, losing all my work. It's just too much to rewrite it.

The gist of it is this. If SOS engages in fanning the flames of racism to organize, it'll attract fascists and create fascist symps. (Suzie Brown is a good example -- she offers to ally with brownshirts). It'll turn off people who are sensitive to racism. It doesn't matter what the SOS high command consider racist or not-racist; people will interpret the group's actions subjectively, based on their own standards.

It's not my issue, though, how SOS organizes. I can only respond to their actions, so, that's what I'll do.

That last post by Mukai, with the angry words, was not Mukai. It's a imposter.

First off - I'm, at best, a MEChA apologist. I'm not a member, and until recently, never supported them besides tolerating their right to exist. My sentiments have been toward anti-nationalism. I do find their Plan Espiritual de Aztlan kind of eerie. (On the other hand, I've seen businesses with "Aztlan" in their name all my life, and never found them to be any kind of threat.)

I think they're okay because they're an organization that fights for the rights of an underdog group -- poor and working class Chicanos.

This is unlike SOS, which, while fighting for the rights of working class Americans, does it through an alliance with reactionaries, and by attacking an underdog group.

The irony of the protest there was that one plaque on the monument was to a Mexican American guy who "made it" in BP, and became a prominent citizen and philanthropist there, and has a lot of family up the street. It's your typical immigrant success story. See link for more info.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.metrolinktrains.com/pdf/news/metrolinkmatters/metrolink_matters_2001_march.pdf&e=10313

Sorry you feel rejected by MEChA. You're brown enough in my book. Hell, I put up with a Mexican neighbor, from Mexico, who's as conservative as Hitler and follows the orders of the Righty Wurlitzer, so, I can put up with you.

The demo was not about MEChA. (Well, it was to SOS, and to MEChA.) It was mostly about local residents. (I am one, sort of. I lve two cities away, and saw this as "self-defense" so SOS would not come back to the SGV.)

The reason why BP turned out in big numbers is simple -- SOS did something racist. They say it's not racist, but, it's all in the eye of the beholder, and, the counter-protest perspectives has more popular support than SOS's.

The immigration issue, in this demo, was secondary, at best. It was almost entirely peripheral. A demo about immigration should take place around places like the INS, the Border Patrol, etc. It should not involve protesting monuments in cities with large Latino populations.

Phil, think of how you would feel if your great grandpa was a prominent member of the city, and had a plaque up on some monument, and had a train station named after him? Good huh?

Then, imagine if people from around 30 to 70 miles away come and protest that monument, saying it's part of a conspiracy to have Mexico take over the state. That's what SOS did.

When I went to check out the monument, a local resident showed me the plaque, and, that's how he felt about it. He thought the protest was partly about the plaque, which was a sign of Mexican American success in America. This is just one reason why people were offended by SOS. There were others, and, there were obviously enough reasons to generate a huge turnout against SOS.

The KKK were white power terrorists. They numbered some 2 million in the 1920s, and included in their membership some people who had political power. This emboldened white people to form vigilante groups that were lynching people (of all colors, but mainly Black).

This is where MEChA differs, because MEChA does not have so many members, and little power. It's a student group.

People who equate MEChA with the KKK are nuts. It's a blatant denial of the history of racism and white power.

See how overly politically correct and sensitive people are.

"their women" refer to the other side, they were not our women.

The men have been commenting about the women on the other side, so it was their women.

Give me a break.

I do not think that "their women" are any less than us, they just appear to be alot more violent. Now, if they are illegal Mexicans, they are less than me, because I do not break the law. I am morally better, because I respect the rule of law, and do not break into the country next to me, just because I can, and expect those citizens to pay billions of dollars, per year for my stolen medical care.

Illegal immigration, is really what all of this is about. Illegal immigration, is an insult, to each and every single law-abiding immigrant and law-abiding American citizen.

The words on the monument, about Mexicans taking America back, is what triggered this whole thing.

We take it as a direct threat, and if someone, threatens you, you are going to be on the defensive.

There may be or may not be some good comments on the monument, but the one, about this land being Mexican again, totally overshadowed any good, the monument might stand for.

Illegal Mexicans, are swarming into our country, by the millions, threatening our way of life, and it will be stopped.

Our way of life is equality. We all must follow the rule of law. No one group should have preferential treatment over another. That is exactly what illegal Mexicans are getting, preferential treatment, and the (mostly white) traitors who are hiring them. They continue to break our laws, and they are not punished, but the rest of us would be punished.

It has to stop, it will stop.

"Phil, think of how you would feel if your great grandpa was a prominent member of the city, and had a plaque up on some monument, and had a train station named after him? Good huh?"

Actually it's funny that mention that. I'm a descendent of Juan Seguin, who commanded the tejano regiment during the Texas war for independence, a unit which fought fiercely against the Mexican army at the decisive battle of San Jacinto. He would have died at the Alamo, had he not been sent (much too late, obviously) to gather reinforcements. Seguin was elected to the senate of the Republic of Texas, then served as mayor of San Antonio. An old enemy of his, a general in the Mexican Army, told the people of Texas that he had been a double agent during the war. This was a lie, but Seguin was forced to flee to Mexico in the face of death threats, without any evidence to back up the general's accusations. In Mexico, he was regarded as a traitor, and was shunned.

So yes, I do understand how predjudice and hatred can ruin lives. I think my ancestor's story also shows that treachery is a two-way street. I personally have had negative experiences with illegal aliens, and I want nothing to do with them. I resent people assuming that my ancestry somehow obligates me to support activities that are detrimental to the working poor of the United States, not to mention ILLEGAL. I speak out on this issue as much to discredit the white racists who regard us as monolithic in our views as to the latino racists who forget the immense diversity that exists in the Hispanic-American population. MEChA is openly hostile to the white Other and thus alienates that grey area where assimilated, lighter skinned, European-featured Latinos often exist, where shunning whites can mean shunning spouses and children. It's just as bad as people like me who look down their noses at darker, native-featured Latinos, as if they they've forgotten the Native American blood that also flows in their veins, however small a percentage it may be.

As for the monument, to be honest with you, I just posted here to talk about immigration, originally to provide moral support for the other Latino poster who shares my views on the issue. I'm not in L.A., and I linked to this site from elsewhere. I'd support a monument to a deserving Latino-America (Juan Seguin has a town in Texas named after him), but not one inscribed with words promoting hatred, divisiveness, or hostility toward other Americans.

The last sentence of the 2nd to last paragraph should read "people who look like me", not "people like me".

Here's the point - the monument is not hateful. The "art" part is meant to incite thought, and bring together different elements into a kind of collage of references.

The city also attached a plaque to it honoring the guy for whom the train station is named.

Start with that understanding, first and foremost. This is very moderate, pretty inclusive public art. As far as public art goes, it's not nearly as "Mexican" as the murals in East LA. Indeed, Baca's art generally isn't as "revolutionary" as the typical radical Chican@ artist, and for this reason, it's very popular with city government.

So, start with that, and add the fact that this artwork has existed in this community for over a decade.

Then, imagine if some outsider group starts to protest the art, claiming it's part of some nefarious plot to have Mexico take over the US. And this group is related to the Minuemen, a group that has, within its volunteer ranks, people who think Mexicans (not just illegals, but people like you) are human vermin, disease carrying animals.

Imagine how you would feel.

this whole thing about the "law" being on the side of the racists is making me think, and chuckle, and then get kind of sad. because they are right, this whole situation highlights the truths of american racism. of course the law is on your side pendejos, it was written by ya'll. how pathetic are you when you have to base your own "morality" on how well you lick the balls of the most immoral industrialised nation at the present time?
Laws are not automatically "moral", and citizens of a "democracy" tht think like that are dangerous to the democracy.
i think what is really infuriating about all of this is how incredibly Stupid and childish the SOSer's "debate (it can't rightly be called that) is. they have no facts or even a real cause. they are just bored, angry racists.
its funny too, because these dumb-fucks are getting screwed by this government in the same ways everyone else is, but they blind themselves to that with their fear and ignorance. damn talk about beating a dead horse.....

"FEAR LEADS TO ANGER, ANGER LEADS TO HATE,
HATE LEADS TO THE DARKSIDE, or in this case SOS, the Minutemen,
the KKK, Focus on the family, watching faux news"
---YODA, with help.

Luke: is the left side stonger?

Yoda: No. No. Quicker. Easier. More seductive.

Ignorance of history,

greed masked as 'compassion,'

violence masked as peace.

The left side are they.

i am gathering kkk involvement in san antoio texas during 1900 and 1930.in particular any information on a kkk member who was elected as mayor of san antonio.thnk you

I cant believe the statement this guy said. It just shows how ignorant people are and it fuels their anger. Please get educated and then say something productive.
The number 1 problem is not illegals crossing, the border, the problem is employers that hire illegals.
If the law was more strict enforcing employers who hired iligals then, it would really work against illegal immigrants.
Its like a pack of wolfs, if they know that there’s food some where they'll keep coming, but if there’s nothing to eat, they’ll look else where.
Its the fault of the people that hire illegal immigrants as well as the people that cross the border "TO BE HIRED".

If the illegals are stopped from comming.
If the illegals are deported.
If the employers are punished.
If the employers are educated.
If the problem stops.
I will get bored.

Well, first of all, I think that you mean that you are a native american and not american Indian. This is a common mistake people make b/c Columbus’s goal was to get to India going the opposite way and then accidentally bumped into America, thought it was India, and named all the native Americans, Indians, thinking that he was in India. Also, Hispanics include everyone from Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Brazilians, Columbians, Ecuadorians, Paraguayans, Uruguayans, Spaniards and Mexicans and many many more. Don’t tell me you didn’t know that. ( What does Aztlan have to do with anything? We think it’s a myth too, but we don’t know. It’s kind of like El Dorado.) Second of all, I respect what you are trying to say and how your forefathers fought for this land and etc. but when your forefathers came to this land, they wiped out a civilization that did not do any harm to them. They killed native Americans who were on this land way before your forefather’s time. Why? Well just b/c they wanted more and more land in a selfish act. Third of all, yeah, congratulations that you condemn the audacity of illegal aliens but,..I’m going to try to say this in the most respectful way possible, nobody really gives a crap of what you think. Did you know that California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, and all that land up to Florida was Mexico until your forefathers came and took it away? So in reality, YOU are in our “Mexico Lindo.” It isn’t fair that Mexicans cannot be permitted to be standing on their own land. This was our land and of course the native’s land as well and also, if you demand that Vicente Fox take care of his people, why don’t you maybe write a letter to him and mail it and see if he listens to your plea. You think it’s the Mexican’s fault that the gov’t in Mexico is corrupt? You see, that’s why Mexicans are crossing the border, to work and to win money and then to go back to Mexico. You know, if all the Mexicans in the Unites States went back to Mexico, everyone else left won’t be able to survive! Mexicans do all the hard work that you are to scared to even think about. I recommend you the movie A day w/out a Mexican b/c it states some pretty important points as well. I have a lot more to say but will write later. In closing, though, it’s you who are not OUR responsibility. You automatically put yourself on a pedestal when you are standing next to an illegal immigrant. Well, get off and open the eyes on that big head and maybe you will see how the situation really is. So why don’t you go back to Europe or wherever you come from and demand your leader take care of YOU? If you don’t, then maybe that big head of yours will burst from how blind you are.