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Video of Tanks at anti-war protest in LA
by .
Tuesday, Nov. 09, 2004 at 10:27 PM
Tanks on the streets of LA
QuickTime movie at
LOS ANGELES, November 9, 2004 - At 7:50 PM two armored tanks showed up at an anti-war protest in front of the federal building in Westwood. The tanks circled the block twice, the second time parking themselves in the street and directly in front of the area where most of the protesters were gathered. Enraged, some of the people attempted to block the tanks, but police quickly cleared the street. The people continued to protest the presence of the tanks, but about ten minutes the tanks drove off. It is unclear as to why the tanks were deployed to this location. Uploaded here is video from the event.
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still image from video
by .
Tuesday, Nov. 09, 2004 at 11:31 PM
tank.jpeg, image/jpeg, 288x216
.
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Disturbing
by T
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 4:33 AM
This is truly the most disturbing thing i've seen in.... Well, 8 days.
Any secondary source on this at all? Even a blog would be good.
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bah
by Jeremy Savage
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 6:40 AM
Just watched the video. Damn I hate ANSWER rallies
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Welcome to the police state.
by Baton guy
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 7:51 AM
while the rest of the sheep remained safely on the sidewalk a few of us brave souls were willing to put our lives on the line to protect our right to desent. what will do you when the time comes?
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OneEyedMan
by KPC
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 9:43 AM
....yes, what a cost-effective way of dealing with a non-existant threat....
....well, there is a housefly in my kitchen, can I get some republican idiot to send an Apache helicopter to dispatch it?
....just send the bill to the taxpayer.....
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not so fast
by getreal
Tuesday, Nov. 09, 2004 at 3:46 AM
cmon people... there was a hostage incident at the mexican consulate earlier that SAME day. they are both federal buildings! THINK http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-hostage10nov10,0,4899107.story?coll=la-home-headlines
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tanks but no tanks
by cathytrione
Tuesday, Nov. 09, 2004 at 3:49 AM
cathytrione@yahoo.com
Im sure the tanks were very successful against the "rebels" who probably were long gone--typical guerrilla manoeuver: retreat and wait...the "coalition" will find that the enemy they defeated will make peculiar reappearances...
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Where's the video
by Just Insanity
Tuesday, Nov. 09, 2004 at 3:51 AM
The video link doesn't work. Is this just crap or is it for real?
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WHY IS THE MOVIE GONE?
by tamara
Tuesday, Nov. 09, 2004 at 3:55 AM
WHY iS THE TANK MOVIE GONE?
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Citizen
by Steve
Tuesday, Nov. 09, 2004 at 4:00 AM
I wasn't there at the Tuesday night demonstration in Westwood, but I did do some follow-up investigation this morning about the two armored vehicles.
Turns out the West Los Angeles Veterans Administration was having a Veterans Day parade and celebration this morning (Wednesday). I drove over and walked in to the WLA VA to look around at 10:50am.
Lots of marching middle school ROTC "cadets" (including 11-to-14-year-old boys and girls from Mt. Vernon Middle School all in US Army uniform, some shouldering parade "rifles") and a high school band and antique cars filled with VAFW members. And two USMC Striker armored vehicles complete with 6 or 7 Marines in fatigues and body armor giving junior high ROTC kids and adults tours of the vehicles.
I talked to one Marine with one of the "Striker" vehicles. He told me they had driven the vehicles up from Camp Pendleton the night before (Tuesday) on the freeway. Getting off the 405 Freeway North taking the Wilshire East (instead of WEST to the VA) offramp, they would have passed Wilshire and Veteran where the anti-war rally was underway protesting the attack on Fallujah in Iraq.
I asked him if he was "rolling around Westwood" Tuesday night. He said, "Yeah, and we drove past that anti-war demonstration. We was lost. We're not from L.A. We didn't know where this place (WLA VA) was. We were trying to find it."
"Did you drive around the block twice?" I asked.
"Yeah, we did. We stopped to ask them (the protestors) directions, but they weren't very nice."
There was more conversation, but that was the gist of it from the Marine side concerning the armored vehicles. For what it's worth.
I've also been receiving emails from friends who were at the rally who tell me the LAPD officers said they had no idea why the Striker armored vehicles had shown up.
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OH Marine Strykers
by David
Tuesday, Nov. 09, 2004 at 4:04 AM
Heh I was thinking Army Strykers. The Marines use a completly different set of Strykers.
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N o Way Jose
by bananaman
Tuesday, Nov. 09, 2004 at 4:04 AM
bananaman@spammail.com
Don't the Police ususally deal with those sot of incidents? John Mc Clean on holiday I take it. DUH
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Follow up on 2 USMC Striker armored vehicles at Westwood Federal Building
by Steve
Tuesday, Nov. 09, 2004 at 4:09 AM
I wasn't there at the Tuesday night demonstration in Westwood, but I did do some follow-up investigation this morning about the two armored vehicles.
Turns out the West Los Angeles Veterans Administration was having a Veterans Day parade and celebration this morning (Wednesday). I drove over and walked in to the WLA VA to look around at 10:50am.
Lots of marching middle school ROTC "cadets" (including 11-to-14-year-old boys and girls from Mt. Vernon Middle School all in US Army uniform, some shouldering parade "rifles") and a high school band and antique cars filled with VAFW members. And two USMC Striker armored vehicles complete with 6 or 7 Marines in fatigues and body armor giving junior high ROTC kids and adults tours of the vehicles.
I talked to one Marine with one of the "Striker" vehicles. He told me they had driven the vehicles up from Camp Pendleton the night before (Tuesday) on the freeway. Getting off the 405 Freeway going north, they would have passed Wilshire and Veteran where ANSWER had called a rally to protest the attack on Fallujah in Iraq.
I asked him if he was "rolling around Westwood" Tuesday night. He said, "Yeah, and we drove past that anti-war demonstration. We was lost. We're not from L.A. We didn't know where this place (WLA VA) was. We were trying to find it."
"Did you drive around the block twice?" I asked.
"Yeah, we did. We stopped to ask them (the protestors) directions, but they weren't very nice."
There was more conversation, but that was the gist of it from the Marine side concerning the armored vehicles. For what it's worth.
I've also been receiving emails from friends who were at Tuesday evening's Westwood demostration. They report that the LAPD officers said they had no idea why the two armored vehicles had appeared and then disappeared.
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Who's Got the Video?
by Eggie
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 4:22 PM
Anyone seen another source?
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Anyone ever heard of the Posse Comitatus Act?
by Michael Boldin
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 4:23 PM
mboldin@populistamerica.com
One of the first principles of freedom is that the military and the police are separate. Police are civilians, and their job is to police civilians. The military is for the protection of our borders. I'm not sure if these alleged tanks were used to police the event, but the story gives this impression. It's recommended that all Americans read the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 as we are seeing an exploding police state nationwide - the military is training and working with civilian police on too many occasions.
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Lost Armoured Vehicles
by Brendon
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 4:25 PM
Lost eh? Hey about that! And right where a protest was happening!
HOW CONVIENENT!
It's called a psy op. Test the waters. See the public and media response to tanks on the street...before you know it whole battalions of the things will be getting lost as the natives grow more restless.
Lost? Give me a break.
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Did the two tanks look like this one?
by Steve
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 4:29 PM
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Wow...
by Andrew Murphy
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 4:33 PM
imandrewmurphy@yahoo.com
This is totally amazing. You know, they had a lot of reporting on the protest on tv early in the evening, but there was no late coverage and certainly no mention of tanks.
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Uh ril Uhmerican
by Let's kill dumb people
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 4:35 PM
Baa-Baa-Demlib Sheep must be from the South. And proud of it, too, I bet. A perfect example of the phrase, "Ignorance is Bliss."
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Police State? "No Tanks!"
by Patriot
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 4:42 PM
I believe that this is the FIRST time tanks have been deployed against peaceful demonstrators in Los Angeles... this sharp escalation, so obviously meant to suppress free speech, may also be a precedent for the entire country. There was absolutely no reason or excuse to deploy tanks against a law abiding crowd... except to INTIMIDATE the populace.
Someone posting as 'Steve' dismissed the incident, saying it was part of a "West Los Angeles Veterans Administration Veterans Day Parade". Excuse me but... the demonstration was held on Nov. 9th, Veterans Day is Nov. 11th. 'Steve' also noted that "LAPD officers said they had no idea why the two armored vehicles had appeared and then disappeared." Do you really think the LAPD would be clueless about TANKS rolling down Westwood Blvd.? Someone else posted that there was a "hostage incident at the Mexican consulate earlier that SAME day"... well then, why not post tanks in front of EVERY government building or foreign consulate in LA?, come on... TANKS were deployed in front of an antiwar demonstration and you dummies are making up excuses!
Those tanks were parked there for one reason only... to show you whose 'boss' and what's in store for you if you step out of line.
Yes, you live in a 'free' country where you may exercise your 'rights' to freedom of assembly and freedom of speech... but you must first face tanks to do so! How many American citizens will be brave enough to claim their rights in the face of such force?
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OFF! OFF! OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!
by Jesuit
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 4:48 PM
Nonsense replied Alice.
Look, let's put the Fascist Republicans on one side and the Communist Democrats on the other, let them go at it, and hope there are no survivors.
The World would done a favor.
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Ohio State
by steve
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 4:51 PM
Anybody that thinks this is no big deal must not remember Ohio. The problem is that the same morons that support bu$h believe nothing bad happened at Ohio State either.
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They were 'lost'? With GPS?
by Mairead
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:03 PM
The 'lost' explanation sounded plausible...til I thought of GPS positioning and route-finding. Why wouldn't such vehicles have that when it's already an option in many common-or-garden-variety cars? (I'm not trying to impeach the author who offered the explanation; it might be the correct one, in which case other questions arise)
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STATEMENT FROM PROTEST ORGANIZERS
by ANSWER
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:05 PM
STATEMENT FROM PROTEST ORGANIZERS Hundreds Protest Attack on Fallujah and U.S. Militarism. A.N.S.W.E.R. Demo Draws Activists and Military Tanks Hundreds of protestors converged on the Federal building in Westwood last night to demonstrate against the U.S. attack on Fallujah. Colorful signs, banners and placards lined the busy streets while the crowd militantly chanted "George Bush, we say no - the occupation has got to go!" and "The people of Fallujah are under attack. What do we do? Stand up, fight back!" The A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition initiated last night's emergency demonstration. It was one of many coordinated actions that took place in cities across the nation protesting the new U.S. invasion of Fallujah. Activists and leaders from various progressive organizations attended, including members of Free Palestine Alliance, CAIR, Coalition for World Peace, Women in Black, U.S. Labor Against War, NION, ADC-LA/OC and more. As the demonstration was winding up, two large U.S. military tanks drove past the protestors on Wilshire Boulevard two times. The second time, the tanks stopped directly in front of a group of about 50 protestors for nearly five minutes. Police attempted to provoke a confrontation with the crowd, but the people resisted. Instead, they chanted "Bring the Troops Home Now!" We do not know where the tanks came from, where they were going or why they drove past the demonstration. It is an outrage to see military tanks rolling through the streets of Los Angeles. If the tanks were meant to intimidate us, they failed. The resolve of the protestors to fight against the occupation was strengthened by their presence. The protestors stuck together and chanted loudly until the tanks sped away and the police dispersed. The presence of military tanks on Wilshire highlights the need to step up the fight against U.S. militarism. The U.S. is the most highly militarized nation on the planet with a defense budget of over $700 billion. We must increase the struggle against war, occupation, racism and all forms of bigotry in the U.S and abroad. The A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition has unveiled an action plan to deepen the struggle and further unite the antiwar movement so that it grows even stronger in the months to come. Please join us in building these exciting upcoming events in Los Angeles: PROTEST VIGIL TO BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW! Sat, Dec 18, 7 pm Hollywood & Highland (NW corner) COUNTER-INAUGURAL DEMONSTRATION Thurs, Jan 20, 2005, 6 pm Westwood Federal Building (Wilshire & Veteran) MASS MARCH AND RALLY - GLOBAL DAY OF ACTION Sat, March 19, 2005, 12 noon Location TBA Los Angeles For more info or to volunteer call 323-464-1636 http: http://www.answerla.org answerla@answerla.org
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ms
by Ruth Slater
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:07 PM
terrianda@msn.com
God bless those protestors , america is behind you. Arizona is behind you , we are fighting our own war with the illegal invassion. Bush is a madman , and he is destroying this country. I am a Republican and a conservative and I never voted for the dictator , don't blame us , we have no idea who voted for him , well ,yes we do , the election was a fraud and the final part of the cuop has taken place. Stay in there if they want a battle let it begin here. We have the right to protest and protest we will.
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fresca
by fine with me
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:09 PM
"Look, let's put the Fascist Republicans on one side and the Communist Democrats on the other, let them go at it, and hope there are no survivors. "
Fine by me.
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Rev.
by Daniels
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:09 PM
Was @ Fed. bldg. on eve of 9th...
Calling out words of war protest, several of the soldiers gave us the thumbs up. One person gave them literature on finding help to get out as they seemed to have an empathy for the cries of the crowd.
BUT THEN an utterly moronic woman started screaming at them that they were murderers and baby killers and other foul verbal attacks. I gently shared with her the fact that the three men in the tank in front of us appeared supportive, then she screamed at me even more hateful sentiments...
So, like, didn't we learn anything from Viet Nam, mostly in regard to the importance of the human beings that are soldiers who have become caught in the middle of the nightmare? So many of the kids in the military today come from financial disadvantage and this was a way to be able to afford an education.
TRUST ME, those KIDS IN THE TANKS are most likely scared to hell about what they are about to face.
People irrationally screaming hideous accusations at soldiers are not helping, but are rather hurting the "cause". It isn't the soldiers that should be hated, go after our leadership with your words of anger, go after those who compel little boys to be forced into acts of war. ...Too bad someone doesn't ship Bush's daughters off to the front lines, wouldn't that make us all much more trusting of the President's resolve in sending other people's children to be killed?!
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President
by American Rationalist Party
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:12 PM
Oh my god, that is the fakest tank I've ever seen. What you have their is a mocked up tank made by protestors, and then someone shot an extremely closed in shot with a camera. What is there, 3 people in the photo? That is a fake photo folks.
The same tactic was used during protests against the Vietnam war. Protestors would get 10 or 15 people to scream loudly and pack tightly as if they had no room, and then they would only take film from close in, and then claim there were hundreds of protestors that showed up when there were not.
That is a shameful piece of BS. No offense to any of you, it probably would fool most people. But I BUILD tanks, including Strykers and APVs and other vehicles for the US military, that is a fake POS folks, somebody should be ashamed of this ruse.
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Patriot & other steve: just telling you what I did, saw, asked, and heard
by Steve1
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:16 PM
Hi. I'm not "dismissing" anything. I'm just telling you what I did, saw, asked, and heard this morning in West Los Angeles. Want to verify if there was a large Veterans Day parade and celebration at the WLA VA this Wednesday morning on 11/10/2004? There are ways to do that. For example.... http://www.gla.med.va.gov/GLAcalendar/calendarcode.cfm Do I think the US Marine Corps should be driving Light Armored Vehicles on the 405 Freeway or Wilshire Blvd.? NO. Very bad idea to begin with. Do I think their appearance at an anti-war rally whatever the reason is intimidating, worrisome, and not to be accepted? YES. Do I think the present US administration represents a clear and continuing danger to peace and democracy at home and abroad? YES. Do I think we need all the accurate and verified information we can get to devise effective strategy and actions? YES. Was locating those two armored vehicles in West Los Angeles all that difficult? No. I did after my Wednesday morning class. Like I wrote before... take my information for what it's worth. But please don't make me into a CIA psyops expert. That's wasted energy. Thanks. In peace and solidarity...
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Irony lost on the plebs
by Matt Hamon
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:21 PM
matt@hopecaravan.com
The irony of coalition forces, specifically American using a Bathist army to attack Fallujah is lost on the plebs.
Why don't we just get their commander and chief to lead them, I'm sure Saddam Hussein would stop them from being an uncontrollable rabble.
We could also get Osama Bin Laden and Abu Baka Bashir to do secret missions to thwart those ungrateful Iraqis, oop! I mean insurgency.
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Halo 2
by Syphoon
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:26 PM
Does anyone else think the guy in the turret is dressed like Master Chief from Halo? Given that the tank is an obvious fake, and Halo 2 was released Nov 9, I'm laughing right now at this "story".
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Right on, "Rev" Daniels
by Steve1
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:27 PM
Again, I wasn't there Tuesday, but if his report is accurate, then I couldn't agree more with Daniels. Really and effectively demonstrating peace takes discipline and brains and creativity and maturity and the presence and flexibility to turn opportunities to advantage, not just opposition.
We're all learning together.
>>Daniels wrote:
Calling out words of war protest, several of the soldiers gave us the thumbs up. One person gave them literature on finding help to get out as they seemed to have an empathy for the cries of the crowd.
BUT THEN an utterly moronic woman started screaming at them that they were murderers and baby killers and other foul verbal attacks. I gently shared with her the fact that the three men in the tank in front of us appeared supportive, then she screamed at me even more hateful sentiments...
So, like, didn't we learn anything from Viet Nam, mostly in regard to the importance of the human beings that are soldiers who have become caught in the middle of the nightmare? So many of the kids in the military today come from financial disadvantage and this was a way to be able to afford an education.
TRUST ME, those KIDS IN THE TANKS are most likely scared to hell about what they are about to face.
People irrationally screaming hideous accusations at soldiers are not helping, but are rather hurting the "cause". It isn't the soldiers that should be hated, go after our leadership with your words of anger, go after those who compel little boys to be forced into acts of war. .
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Posse Comitatus
by Thom
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:32 PM
The Posse Comitatus Act, mentioned by Michal Boldin above, no longer means anything. While it originally forbade the military to be involved in civilian law enforcement, Ronald Reagan ammended it for the ridiculous "war on drugs". He effectively adding three words to it:
unless ordered to.
Posse Comitatus is now nothing more than a toilet paper smoke screen - there are no protections left that I am aware of to prevent us from a full blown totalitarian police state.
Certainly not the morality of those running the show these days.
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What happened to the tank video
by RD
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:35 PM
candour@earthlink.net
Can someone direct me to where the video went to.
I can not access it from my computer.
thanks
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Lost LAVs
by slowroll
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:43 PM
Hey guys. Some people aren't going to be convinced that this was NOT an attempt to stifle expression, but this sounded fishy to me from the start.
Thursday is Veteran's Day and today is the USMCs 229th birthday.
The vehicles in question are LAV-25s, not Strykers or Coyotes. They're operated exclusively by the USMC.
Military vehicles don't have route-finding GPS like a new Lexus. Military systems are generally far, far behind civilian systems. The primary processor in the F-22, for example, is about as powerful as an old 486. It takes years to develope these vehicles and they've got to commit to an operating system pretty early and go ahead and build it. The primary issue military GPS is still the old PLGR system from the mid-90s. No Marine LAV has a system up front programmed with maps of downtown LA.
If they were going to use armored vehicles for crowd suppression, the LAPD has V-100s and there are Army National Guard units with armor closer than Camp Pendleton, the nearest Marine base.
Tempest in a teapot, fellas, it's not to-the-barricades-with-your-Molotov-cocktails-time yet. Just some lost Marines.
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LA VA Parade details
by Xmas
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 5:47 PM
Wednesday
Nov 10
10:00 a.m.-
12:00p.m.
VA Greater Los Angeles Veterans Day
Parade
VA West Los Angeles
For Info call (310) 478-
3711
VA West Los Angeles
11301 Wilshire Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA
Hospital Line
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Repost of video
by .
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 6:02 PM
QuickTime movie at
.
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some input
by Sheepdog
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 6:08 PM
A fire team can shoot out of the gun holes as this puppy does doughnuts on your new lawn.
These are wheeled (8) armor vehicles, not treaded. They are for urban and field use and they can sport a 130 mm gun. I have also seen the mock ups of Russian BMPs fitted with General Motors turrets and chain guns. I hope they solved that resonance rate of fire problem...
They should have been deployed by a carrier to destination. If they were for parade purposes. Reason being is that they are not freeway scooters and they are labor intensive service/maintenance duty wise.
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consider this
by the party we came for
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 6:16 PM
before you call someone dumb. please, make sure you spell things correctly, use words in the right places, and insert spaces.
thats all.
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reply to Rev post
by dkdale
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 6:18 PM
I agree with Daniels’ Rev post about not blaming the soldiers and learning from what was done to Vietnam vets. Soldiers don’t run the war, and the generals who do are carrying out directives from the current administration. It absolutely is important to be clear about what you are protesting and then direct it at someone who’s in a position to do something about it, or at least in a position to correctly take blame. Especially if you’re delivering your protest at shriek level, as the woman in his post was described as doing. Aiming venom at someone who isn’t in charge isn't going to change anything, and doesn’t really accomplish anything, except potentially lose people who might otherwise be on your side of the issue.
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So it begins...
by George Rosenbaum
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 6:25 PM
So it begins...
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Capt. America: Seig Heil!
by buffy
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 7:01 PM
Captain America: Seig heil, mein fuhrer! Let the killing begin!
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Screaming at soldiers and stopping tanks
by proberts
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 7:07 PM
Like a couple of people have said, screaming at soldiers does nothing except make the soldiers think we're against them. They go back and tell their friends what jerks we were, etc, etc.
BUT, to the person who criticized those who blocked the tanks' path: yes, those people risked very little in doing so, but for staying on the sidelines, congratulations on risking absolutly nothing for your beliefs (if you were even there).
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Rev.
by Daniels
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 7:14 PM
A post script:
After I tried to share with my fellow female to have compassion for the soldiers who gave us the thumbs up, and she then lit into me with her venom, a man in the crowd re-acted in suit and began screaming at the soldiers with the same hostility... then another, then another; it started a wildfire of hate amongst a portion of the crowd and caused a sadness in the eyes of the boy/soldier in the rear tank, possibly even some fear of us...
How sad.
How sad.
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Mr
by Author
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 7:30 PM
Listen ppl, I know you americans rightly don't like foreigners (even aussies like me in a country that you basically own) telling you what to think.... but.... if you can't even decide if they were real tanks in a real street posing a real threat, then i would suggest strongly that that game is already won. just roll over and play dead for the nice republican commissars now please. and try to look ugly for the FOX news coverage. thanks.
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Cali is 10 years ahead of the rest of the nation
by poor richard
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 7:37 PM
Is this what the rest of us have to look forward to? Do I smell a civil war along party lines? Such is life in the new Amerika!!!
pr
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Tank Repellent
by anarchist
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 8:07 PM
I've read that gasoline and Quaker Instant Oatmeal in a (glass) Perrier bottle is pretty good tank repellent.
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Something to prepare for...
by Eddie V.
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 8:29 PM
If the picture proves fraud it won't be too long before you see the real thing.
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please calm yo ass down
by intel
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 8:52 PM
Those were not TANKS, those where light armored vehicles LAVs or APCs (armored personel carriers) some police tactical units have one or two of these. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/lav-25.htm These were probably national guardsman out for a joyride (it's probably near a national guard armory) you guys/gals gotta practice your armored vehicle identification flash cards
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How about Intimidation
by Jerzy
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 9:04 PM
What do police need LAVs for in this situation? Intimidation. You know what intimidation is? It is an effort to curtail freedom of speech not to mention driving a tank (or parading a military unit) into an area of protest is a violation of the right of assembly. So you can try to distract from the issue by quibbling about details all you want, the facts speak for themselves.
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thermite make good repellent
by Greasy sock
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 9:18 PM
But is not safe so do not use without proper super vision by trained and qualified individuals. Soap suds work well with wheeled vehicles as do bee bees. Armor without infantry is fool hardy.
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Canadianguy
by kobrien
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 9:56 PM
The Canadian Government has decided to annex California. We have sent 3 of our 10 armored vehicles in to enforce discipline. If there is any dissent Celine Dion will sing the theme from Titanic on all radio stations until submission is complete. Get used to poutine and back bacon people, we've had enough and we're taking over. Also, we know how to swear in french.
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OMG GOVERNMENT OMG FREEDOM
by Person
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 10:15 PM
Far to much tinfoil in this thread.
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Info on the vehicle...
by fred in phx
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 10:18 PM
The vehicle shown in this video is a General Dynamics Stryker MGS (Mobile Gun System). Read how this puppy is equiped:
"The Stryker Mobile Gun System variant consists of the basic vehicle with a General Dynamics Land Systems fully stabilized shoot-on-the-move Low Profile Turret. The turret is armed with a M68A1E4 105mm cannon with muzzle brake and an M2 0.50 calibre commander's machine gun. The Stryker Mobile Gun System can fire 18 rounds of 105mm main gun ammunition, 400 rounds of 0.50 calibre ammunition and 3,400 rounds of 7.62mm ammunition. Curtiss-Wright Corp's Vista Controls supplies the fully automated ammunition loading and replenishing system."
My only question, why in the hell would you need to deploy that much fire power to a small war protest? The answer of course is they didn't need to. Then why did they do it? Simple: Displays of overwhelming force are designed to suppress political dissent. It's been going on for hundreds of years. We just didn't think we would see this specific type of display on American soil designed to intimidate American voters. Well, I guess that's a police state for you. Get used to it, there's alot more where that came from. My source for the Stryker information.
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infoshop discussion
by chicagoan
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 10:23 PM
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=04/11/10/0844742
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Tank Deployed to AntiWar Rally
by Debi White
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 10:27 PM
HeartSoulHumor@yahoo.com
www.HeartSoulandHumor.blogspot.com
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none
by none
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 10:35 PM
Those weren't 'tanks' they were Marine APCs. They were obviously on their way to another location and crossed paths with the protest. Apparently a lot conspiratorial overreactors seem to think it was planned. The Marines on the other hand looked befuddled about the whole thing.
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Not a Mobile Gun System
by Allan In SF
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 10:58 PM
The vehicles at the protest weren't Mobile Gun Systems, so the complaint about "why so much fire power" isn't really valid. As to whether the Marines were "deployed against protesters," I wouldn't call driving past on Wilshire a "show of force." Respectfully, Allan in SF
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why the tanks?
by Zed
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 11:00 PM
Why the tanks?
Such an over kill, all the wasted fuel to drive them there,wasted man power and time spent all for a handful of unarmed protesters,
but then it isn't their money they are wasting it is ours,we pay for all their childlish reactions to popcorn fart protests like they were on the front lines in Iraq or something.
This whole situation sucks big time!!
Zed.
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Many of you people are idiots
by octavian
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 11:05 PM
It's funny that in the vid, the protestors are screaming "bring the troops home now". Yet those troops were right there in front of them. It's also quite funny that whenever Liberals see military men and women, they lash out against them.
Stop pretending you give a hoot about "the troops". You don't.
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fake tank
by xx
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 11:13 PM
>Oh my god, that is the fakest tank I've ever seen.
I downloaded the video and you can see two tanks. They are very real! So much for these self proclaimed experts that "know" photos have been faked. Buddy go to the top of the page and watch the video. Then tell me your "expert" opinion.
That being said, these tank do not seem to be there for the protest. If they were it was a half ass way to do it. Parking them next to police cars across the street would have been more menacing.
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Robo Cop Response
by Joe Palacios
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 11:36 PM
militaryrocks0311
I a Non Commissioned Officer that was in the so-called tanks, which to be correct they are Light Armored Vehicles, I would just like to let everyone that has read your article know, we were not sent out in response of any protest. I do believe that in this country we all have the right to gather peacefully and voice our opinions. I take great pride in that, why else would I join the very thing that ensures us of that right. I mean the US Marines who have been safe guarding this nation from all enemies that would attempt to take those very rights the group last night was exercising. I would just like to add that there is nothing wrong with protesting a war you feel is wrong, but there is something very wrong, when during your protest of that war to wish harm on those young men and women who have sworn an oath to protect you and to make it so you can go out a voice your opinion. I think it is amazing how so many people protest us for doing our jobs. Did any of you know that in Iraq before we were there they would not gather to voice their dislike of Saddam policies do you think it because they like the policies... or maybe because they knew that if they did protest him tanks would show up and it wouldn’t be because they took the wrong turn off the highway and need to find there way to a celebration of freedom, and to honor those men and women who serve the very people who protest them. They would be there to, an I am sorry to say, kill them. Well not in this country, not on my watch. So, please voice your opinions yell them out, but in the future don’t jump to conclusions, and please for safety reasons don’t jump in front a tank, or any type of armored vehicle it just not safe or very smart. I also hope that you would support your troops we would prefer to be home, but we don’t leave until our job is done and done right because then the deaths suffered on both side are for nothing.
I really hope that every who reads this will take the true meaning of my response. Which is I love this country, I love the people of this great place, I love the liberties we have, and I would fight against all who tried to take those liberties from us whether it be some rouge nation or if it where right here. We are not your enemy we are your shield we lay our lives down so you may be free.
Thank You
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Mr.
by David Jordan
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 11:36 PM
Wait, a second. wasn't this the same day as that Mexican standoff at the Mexican consulate? That is on Wilshire and MacArthur park, maybe the APCs were on their way back from that situation. I heard on NPR that they had armored vehicles at that incident.
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more about the Tanks
by LAV Marine
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 11:48 PM
These do not have shooting ports, none of them have 130mm that is bigger than what is on a Abarams Tank.
there are other variants
a Anti-Tank with Tows
a Mortor with 81 mm
a Logistics with nothing
a Communications agan no main weapon system
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robocop 2
by intel
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 11:54 PM
thanks for the explanation, you guys looked lost, the cops looked kinda shocked too, and you werent putting up any aggresive signs the only aggression I saw was from the protesters who wanted to bring the troops home (if they cared for troops why did they lash out at you?) this is what the friggin left needs to understand it's stupid shit like this that turns people off to our movement. it takes more than just saying 'oh soldiers are just mindless robots'... the fact that this nco is on la indymedia is kinda cool to begin with.
well i think everyone is kinda in an edgy state because of the elections
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Tian An Men Square in Los Angeles?!
by tian
Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 at 11:56 PM
Wow, I only thought Chinese goverment was the only one that sends tanks and troops to confront demostrators.
I did not realize Los Angeles has became the next "Tian An Men" Square!
www.tian.cc
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military does NOT "defend freedom"
by @
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 12:13 AM
i would like to address this myth. the military, militarism, glorification of the military, military spending, and so on *do not* in any way, shape or form defend or support "freedom" (unless your idea of freedom is the shit we have now in the u.s.)
think about it: times of war are precisely those times where public debate, dissent, and individual liberty are most restricted. wars send poor people form one country to kill poor people in another country so a tiny group of people could benefit. there hasn't been a single goddamn war fought by the u.s. that has defended anybody's "freedom." what freedom was defended in 1898 by slaughtering filipinos and taking over cuba? what freedom was defended by dropping atomic bombs on civilians? what freedom was defended destroying entire societies and ecosystems in southeast asia, killing 5 million of its people, because vietnam wanted to be independent from colonialism? when has the u.s. military brought freedom to anyone, mcuh less its own citizens? i think the strongest argument you could make is world war 2, which gets hyped up and propagandized as the "good war" so that all future wars can be compared to it and thus justified. but the u.s. could ahve easily taken steps before that war ever broke out to avoid it from ever happening. study what the u.s.'s response was to fascism in spain in the 1930's. study what the u.s. had to say about hitler in his early years in power, calling him a "miracle" for his anti-union and pro-business policies.
this is not to insult people who are forced into the military because they ahve no other choice to get a job or pay for school, or because they are brainwashed into believing this patriotic bullshit. but we need to see the real issue behind u.s. military intervention, which is, and always has been, imperialism, not to defend anybody's "freedom."
if you want to know whay we have most of the "freedoms" we have, it's because ordinary, poor, marginalized people organized themselves, put their bodies on the line, and got in the streets to demand change. don't ever forget that. the concept that our freedoms and rights are benevolently ahnded down from above, and that the military protects them, is one of the most violent barriers to real social change.
"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."
- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC
"The most violent element in society is ignorance."
-Emma Goldman
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train them to use "mapquest"
by more rational
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 12:19 AM
These kids need to be trained to use "mapquest." You can search for it on the web. It's very high tech, just like the web.
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pissed
by pissed
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 12:21 AM
this country will be at civil war within a year. the winds are blowing.
do you know which side you're going to be on??
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joe palacio
by @
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 12:24 AM
maybe you should ask the reagan administration why they supported saddam hussein when he was at his worse. so much for the u.s. being concerned with "freedom."
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pissed
by pissed
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 12:24 AM
why dont you shut your stupid ass mouth, nazi. are you pleased to see the military at all?
fascist!
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pissed
by pissed
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 12:27 AM
NOT YOU JOE...that last post was NOT in response to your post. that post was meant for some nazi warmonger waaaay earlier.
you made a great point about that asshole reagan.
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Mexican Consulate is NOT a Federal Bldg
by Double G
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 12:38 AM
To the person who commented that the Mexican Consulate is a federal building..consulates are sovereign property, technically belonging to the country it houses. In the case of the Mexican Consulate, officially the property it sits on is considered Mexican land and law enforcement officials need the country's permission before entering. It is NOT a federal building.
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Uncertain
by Uncertain
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 12:53 AM
shira.aliza@gmail.com
Um, I'm not sure about whether or not "Steve" has a valid argument, but according to the California Department of Veterans Affairs, there *was* a Veterans Day parade today, Wednesday 10, which would match Steve's story. http://www.cdva.ca.gov/news/vetsday2004.pdf It's possible that Steve found out about the parade and created the story to match up with the calendar, and it's possible that the tanks really were there for the sake of intimidation, but it's also possible that Steve's story is true. While I don't like the idea of military being used to quell protest, I don't really believe that they'd choose to interrupt yet another protest at the Westwood Federal Building. Big deal. What good would it do? Protests at that building are a dime a dozen; you never even know what they're protesting anymore, but it's always something. For what little it's worth, I didn't see anything about it on the news, and whether or not the national outlets would pick it up, the local news stations would definitely be out there to scope out tanks if they were of significance. UPN and KTLA wouldn't pass it up over politics; it's a STORY.
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Mexican Consulate
by ame
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 12:54 AM
Furthermore the article on the Mexican Consulate incident states that it happened Tuesday morning, so if the tanks really were trying to find the Consulate as implyed above they were at least 10 hours late.
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"shame"? "stop killing babies"?
by more rational
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 12:59 AM
What the hell kind of taunts are those?
How about "JOIN OUR RESISTANCE".
"HELP STOP THE WAR".
"BUSH IS A LIAR".
In ANY large political movement, you *need* the support of the military. Sometimes, it's a feasible thing to get the military to turn against the administration. It happened in Vietnam, because there was a draft. I always thought that was one reason why the military doesn't like a draft.
If you can't get them to turn on their commanders, you can at least get non-compliance outside of battle situations. That's effective too.
Like Daniels said, the soldiers have a class interest, and they generally don't relish going to war, particularly one of aggression.
Let the commanders at Abu Ghraib blame the soldiers for fucking up. Let the VA hospital system allow vets to go homeless. Let's not be like those dirty military bureaucrats.
Hey Matt, how do you know that we aren't already buying cooperation from Saddam? If the "coalition" was serious, they would have offed him already. I think they kept him around for intel, and potentially to consult. They know him, and $probably$ $understand$ $what$ $makes$ $him$ $tick$. They can send him down to South America, maybe set him up at a resort where some Nazis are dying of old age.
Also, Sheepdog, maybe they modified a couple for parades, practice, and whatnot. Just an idea.
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errata
by more rational
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 1:26 AM
Sorry, I meant "soldiers" turning against the administration. The military didn't go against it, but individual soldiers did. If they didn't in combat, because, well, you can't really do that because it's treason (and a pretty shitty thing to do to your fellow soldiers), they did afterward. Or they went AWOL, or CO. My point is that these actions are significant. They help build the peace movement. Usually, the harshest, most powerful critics of the military are people who served in the military.
I'm never going to say those three loaded words, "support our troops," but please, try to understand our troops. Understand where they fit into the system, how they relate to the peace movement, and how they relate to our communities.
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USMC LAV not tanks
by Brad
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 1:50 AM
donnor@hotmail.com
Those vehicles are not tanks. As best as I can tell they look like Marine Corps Light Armored Vehicles, also known as the LAV-25. The LAV is an armored eight wheeled amphibious vehicle. It's main mission is recon and infantry transport. It's engine is in the front compartment and it has room for a squad of men in the rear. The standard gun turret has a 25mm automatic cannon and a co-axial 7.62mm machine gun. here is a link http://www.1ofthefew.com/lav25.htmwww.1ofthefew.com/lav25.htm
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It's not a Tank
by Abraxas
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 2:35 AM
And it's not a "Stryker" fighting vehicle. It's a United States Marine Corps LAV III light armoured vehicle. It's main armament is a 25mm Bushmaster chain gun.
If anyone here honestly thinks the government is trying to violate the Posse Comititus Act, they're the dumbest person alive. The nearest Marine Corps base -- does anyone think the USMC drove a couple of LAV IIIs 80 MILES from Pendleton to L.A., hung around for ten minutes, then left?
Get over yourselves, friggin' hippy tree-hugging idiots.
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Call Bullshit Sorta
by Douglas
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 2:53 AM
OK, several things are wrong with the story although strangely enough, the gist of the story is probably true.
First, it is spelled Stryker, not Striker.
Second, the Stryker is currently only fielded by the Army. A Marine driving a Stryker would be as out of place as an Air Force pilot steering a destroyer.
Third, the vehicle in the photo of the original story is a LAV-25. LAV=light armored vehicle. The Marines do use the LAV-25 and has many of them at Camp Pendleton. They normally have three crew members and also carry six infantry so the gist of the story looks right.
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teacher
by teacher
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 3:30 AM
Right now USA is bombing Felluce FLAT.
For what? Because the Iraquis are defending their FREEDOM.
Against an oppressive regime that has killed over HUNDRED THOUSAND of them.
According to BBC, there are still 100,000 civilians in Felluce,
let's see how many of them survive the US atrocities
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Mr.
by T.McConnell
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 3:46 AM
supericanman@hotmail.com 805-478-6551
Kill dumb people? Bah-bah Demlibs? You ,my friend, are the pot calling the kettle black. But that is right-winged logic. It's okay to hate, as long as you paint the other guy up as evil. I'll bet you're a good church-goin' saint.
That's what's wrong with our country ... not enough of you righteous, god-fearin' people to keep us heathenistic, hell-bound, pagan liberals beat into submission.
Thank you for your concern and understanding.
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Intimidation Tactics
by kbfresh
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 5:34 AM
kbfresh1@yahoo.com
This video APPEARS to be evidence of intimidation much like the protestors at he Republican National Convention recieved(but without the tanks). I just wish the insurgents (or as the French now call them Resistance Fighters) could see these types of protests going on in America so that they would know that not all Americans are in support of what this administration is doing to them and their country.
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California
by Common Sense
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 5:54 AM
jason78@eml.cc
California.......the land of fruits and nuts. Answer is a completely useless organization.
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Oh. an out of state opinion
by Please
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:39 AM
If you have no information excepting your uncalled for opinion; relax
keep your hands in your pocket, read the posts and STFU, Common Sense.
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Lunacy
by Common Sense
Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:47 AM
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