Week after week after week after week," said Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., about President Bush's rationale for going to war with Iraq, "we were told lie after lie after lie after lie." Were we?

Jordan recently seized 20 tons of chemicals trucked in by confessed al Qaeda members who brought the stuff in from Syria. The chemicals included VX, Sarin and 70 others. But the media seems curiously incurious about whether one could reasonably trace this stuff back to Iraq. Had the terrorists released a "toxic cloud," Jordanian officials say 80,000 would have died!

So, I interviewed terrorism expert John Loftus, who once held some of the highest security clearances in the world. Loftus, a former Army officer, served as a Justice Department prosecutor. He investigated CIA cases of Nazi war criminals for the U.S. attorney general. Author of several books, Loftus once received a Pulitzer Prize nomination.

John Loftus: There's a lot of reason to think (the source of the chemicals) might be Iraq. We captured Iraqi members of al Qaeda, who've been trained in Iraq, planned for the mission in Iraq, and now they're in Jordan with nerve gas. That's not the kind of thing you buy in a grocery store. You have to have obtained it from someplace.

Larry Elder: They couldn't have obtained it from Syria?

Loftus: Syria does have the ability to produce certain kinds of nerve gasses, but in small quantities. The large stockpiles were known to be in Iraq. The best U.S. and allied intelligence say that in the 10 weeks before the Iraq war, Saddam's Russian adviser told him to get rid of all the nerve gas. It would be useless against U.S. troops; the rubber suits were immune to it. So they shipped it across the border to Syria and Lebanon and buried it. Now, in the last few weeks, there's a controversy that Syria has been trying to get rid of this stuff.

They're selling it to al Qaeda is one supposition. We know the Sudanese government demanded that the Syrian government empty its warehouse in Khartoum where they've been hiding illegal missiles along with components of weapons of mass destruction. But there's no doubt these guys confessed on Jordanian television that they received the training for this mission in Iraq. . . . And from the description it appears this is the form of nerve gas known as VX. It's very rare, and very tough to manufacture . . . one of the most destructive chemical mass-production weapons that you can use. . . . They wanted to build three clouds, a mile across, of toxic gas. A whole witch's brew of nasty chemicals that were going to go into this poison cloud, and this would have gone over shopping malls, hospitals . . .

Elder: You said that the Russians told Saddam, "There is going to be an invasion. Get rid of your chemical and biological weapons."

Loftus: Sure. It would only bring the United Nations down on their heads if they were shown to really have weapons of mass destruction. It's not generally known, but the CIA has found 41 different material breaches where Saddam did have a weapons of mass destruction program of various types. It was completely illegal. But no one could find the stockpiles. And the liberal press seems to be focusing on that.

Elder: It seems to me that this is a huge, huge story.

Loftus: It's embarrassing to the (press). They've staked their reputations that this stuff wasn't there. And now all of a sudden we have al Qaeda agents from Iraq showing up with weapons of mass destruction.

Elder: David Kay said, in an interim report, that there was a possibility that WMD components were shipped to Syria.

Loftus: A possibility? We had a Syrian journalist who defected to Paris in January. The guy is dying of cancer, and he said, "Look, my friends in Syrian intelligence told me exactly where the stuff is buried." He named three sites in Syria, and the Israelis have confirmed the three sites. They know where the stuff is, but the problem is that the United States can't just go around invading Arab countries. . . . We know from Israeli and defectors' intelligence that the son of the Syrian defense minister was paid 50 million bucks to bring the stuff across the border and bury it.

Elder: Why would al Qaeda attack Jordan?

Loftus: Jordan is an ally of the United States. It's at peace with Israel. And Jordan has a long history of trying to prosecute terrorists. . . . There are a lot of reasons. . . . They want to make an example of them. They want to terrorize as many of the Arab states as possible. This is sort of a political dream for the president. The worst nightmare is al Qaeda gets weapons of mass destruction from Iraq. And it looks like it's coming true.

A Syria/Iraq/al Qaeda/WMD connection? Why, this calls for a congressional investigation.

.....I do I do I do believe in spooks...I do I do I do believe in spooks....I do I do I do believe in spooks...


Didja ever notice Little Larry always writes exactly what Republicans want to hear, no matter how remote from reality?

Wadda whore.

"So what is it he wrote that's so far from the truth.

Ever notice how kfc always gets so upset over the mention of the truth?

Whadda loser.

it's easy to be a 21st century liberal. just wear a pointy arrow tie that reads, "Yer a fash-ist."

Try the new one-eyed drumstick from kfc.

Please,

Larry Elder is the republikans number one house negro, right up there with Condi, Colin, and Justice Thomas.
The neo-con dickheads, including fetid and the other Iraqi prisoner porn-addicted conservatives try to divert peoples
attention from the abject perversion that this country
promotes in occupied lands with some bullshit chemical
weapons that they dug up somewhere with US serial numbers.
Ain't no WMD's ya' liars, just some leftover shit from
when Rummy used to suck Saddam's ass.
You can't lie to America anymore about how grossly
unjustified or unwarranted this war and occupation is,
get a real life.

More justification for kicking all of them shitheads out of office.

nuff said.

Iraqi WMD's....nope..none...lying fucks said the same thing before the war...knew EXACTLY where they were, and now you think we will believe the same shitheads now that they say they know exactly where they are in Syria?....Lemme guess, we go to war with Syria, they move them to North Korea...we go to war with them...they move them to Iran...boom goes Iran, they move them to the next country you want to invade.

Not content with trying to get that dead dog to hunt, out pops the mythical Iraqi/AQ connection. Same ol shit, different fuckin' day...talk about beating a dead horse...THAT horse is dead and decayed to dust a long time ago.

...but you guys just go right on believing in fairytales, otherwise how could you live with yourselves?

You, you wanna be a rube, go right ahead, but those of us with a brain would rather sit back and laugh.

"Iraqi WMD's....nope..none"

Wrong.

We've found and slaughtered tons of WMD (no s needed ass). Their called male armed muslims.

Wrong again old man.

Please,

Larry Elder is the republikans number one house negro, right up there with Condi, Colin, and Justice Thomas.

>>>> Typical liberal horseshit. TLH.
A black person may retain their Civil Rights and Freedom....as long as they vote in lockstep with Massa Democrap. Bear witness to liberals' soft bigotry of low expectations and condecension.


The neo-con dickheads, including fetid and the other Iraqi prisoner porn-addicted conservatives try to divert peoples attention from the abject perversion that this country promotes in occupied lands with some bullshit chemical weapons that they dug up somewhere with US serial numbers.
Ain't no WMD's ya' liars, just some leftover shit from
when Rummy used to suck Saddam's ass.

>>>>> There's something suspect about a faction that believes global warming is real because some asshole in a labcoat says so, yet totally denies that there are just some things even a tyrant like Saddam won't stoop to doing, like stockpiling WMD.

You can't lie to America anymore about how grossly
unjustified or unwarranted this war and occupation is,
get a real life.

>>>> It's a shame that arch-liberals will also benefit from the destruction of al-gayda and other terrorist regimes. It doesn't seem fair that those who always side with America's avowed enemies continue to live off the fruited plain.

Thank you, fresca
We have come to depend on you to calibrate our homicidal lunatic field strength antenna and have had to do work arounds to compensate for your brief absence. Welcome back.

Brownshirts protecting the token crossovers.

Same old tired lies and prevarications.

America has lost this war (actually was lost a long time ago, some general just said a few weeks back the war is unwinnable) it is time to bring these kids home and give them real well-paying jobs or send them to college.

WMD???? Is that a daisy cutter bomb dropped on a market place with a lot of old guys drinking tea? Or perhaps the C130s shooting up playgrounds or the local bookmarts? Or perhaps it is the DU bullets and ordinace which the nuke industry conned the taxpayer to buy and dump into people's backyards, and down their wells in Iraq. So many of them, hard to tell who put them there first, isn't it?

Almost as difficult to see (by some) what an uncurious lout Elder really is.

Bush Admirer, for a fat old and stupid ass who has never, or never will see combat, you are real full of this 'we' crap.

Brownshirts protecting the token crossovers.

ANOTHER RACIST PIG LIBERAL FLAPPING HIS GUMS.

Same old tired lies and prevarications.

"LIE LIE LIE" WAS A GOOD SIMON & GARFUNKEL SONG.
.
America has lost this war (actually was lost a long time ago, some general just said a few weeks back the war is unwinnable) it is time to bring these kids home and give them real well-paying jobs or send them to college.

HEY EVERYONE, "SOME GENERAL" SAID THE WAR IS UNWINNABLE, THEREFORE WE SHOULD ROLL OVER AND PLAY DEAD.


WMD???? Is that a daisy cutter bomb dropped on a market place with a lot of old guys drinking tea? Or perhaps the C130s shooting up playgrounds or the local bookmarts? Or perhaps it is the DU bullets and ordinace which the nuke industry conned the taxpayer to buy and dump into people's backyards, and down their wells in Iraq. So many of them, hard to tell who put them there first, isn't it?

YOU'RE GOOD AT PROPAGANDA. TOO BAD YOUR PRECIOUS BLEEDING HEART PROTECTS NOTHING AND CREATES NOTHING.

He was down at Vermont and Third begging change. Great the way we take care of our veterans, isn't it?

I do believe that most of the readers in this forum/news wire, except the weasels who continue to post the insane bull shit like 'even more rational' does, are aware of the real terrorists and their plans for a police state driven by the strategy of tension that stems directly from the play book of the CIA.

Sheepdog I see that your psychotic paranoia re the CIA continues in full bloom.

You are a complete whacko. Go buy a straightjacket and check yourself in to the nearest insane asylum.

I do believe that most of the readers in this forum/news wire, except the weasels who continue to post the insane bull shit like 'even more rational' does, are aware of the real terrorists and their plans for a police state driven by the strategy of tension that stems directly from the play book of the CIA.


You are to be pitied, as you and others of your station harbor phantasies of fighting CIA overlords as if they were agents of the Matrix.

meanwhile millions of angry muslims can't wait to wring your necks.

please take a vaction from giving aid and comfort to the islamic enemy.

Oh that's right, you did.
I'm so hurt.
Really I am.
No kidding.
Please stop.
No more.
I'll cry.

We're not calling you crazy because we want to insult you. We're calling you crazy because you really are crazy.

You actually appear to believe that the CIA does this stuff.

Do you also believe that Darth Vader was a real person? Do you believe Hillary and Bill truly love one another? OJ is really innocent? Kucinich is to be the Democratic nominee? And Saddam is just a nice guy who's been smeared by the Bush Administration?

The US got its way in 1948 without having to resort to violence but-as was discovered in 1990- the CIA had organized a secret paramilitary army in postwar Italy, with hidden stockpiles of weapons and explosives dotting the map. Called Operation Gladio (gladius is Latin for sword), the ostensible excuse for it was laughable-the threat of a Soviet invasion. But the real purpose wasn't so funny-Operation Gladio's 15,000 troops were trained to overthrow the Italian government should it stray from the straight and narrow.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA%20Hits/Gladio_CIAHits.html

CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us."
http://mirrors.korpios.org/resurgent/CIAtimeline.html

A CIA-organized coup overthrew the democratically elected and progressive government of Jacobo Arbenz, initiating 40 years of military-government death squads, torture, disappearances, mass executions and unimaginable cruelty, totaling more than 200,000 victims — indisputably one of the most inhumane chapters of the 20th century.

The justification for the coup that has been put forth over the years is that Guatemala had been on the verge of the proverbial Soviet takeover. In actuality, the Russians had so little interest in the country that it didn’t even maintain diplomatic relations. The real problem was that Arbenz had taken over some of the uncultivated land of the US firm, United Fruit Company (today’s “United Brands” and Chiquita bananas), which had extremely close ties to the American power elite.
http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/usgenocide/CrbnCnSthAmrc.html

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Survivor In 1942 a US Navy destroyer was shipwrecked off Newfoundland. Of the few who survived, one man, Lanier Phillips, was black. The rescuers, never having seen a black man before, tried to scrub his skin clean and white. This is a story about growing up with fear in segregated Georgia, enlisting in a segregated navy, facing death in the icy North Atlantic, and a rescue which galvanized a man to fight racial discrimination. Listen to Survivor with Real Player


Remembering Kent State 1970 When thirteen students were shot by Ohio National Guard Troops during a war demonstration on the Kent State University Campus on the first week of May 1970, four young lives were ended and a nation was stunned. More than 30 years later, the world at war is a different place. However, those thirteen seconds in May, 1970 still remain scorched into an Ohio hillside. Through archival tape and interviews, Remembering Kent State tracks the events that led up to the shootings. Listen to Remembering Kent State 1970 with Real Player


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Aldous Huxley: The Ultimate Revolution, March 20, 1962
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"The one aim of these financiers is world control by the creation of inextinguishable debts." Henry Ford
The CIA's secret activities, covert missions, and connections of control are all done under the pretense and protection of national security with no accountability whatsoever, at least in their minds. Considering the public is held accountable for everything we think, say, and do there is something seriously wrong with this picture. The CIA is the President's secret army, who have been and continue to be conveniently above the law with unlimited power and authority, to conduct a reign of terror around the globe.The "old boy network" of socializing, talking shop, and tapping each other for favors outside the halls of government made it inevitable that the CIA and Corporate America would become allies, thus the systematic infiltration and takeover of the media.
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/CIA-Media-Manipulation.htm

For over fifteen years, the CIA, with assistance from numerous government agencies, conducted a massive illegal domestic covert operation called Operation CHAOS. It was one of the largest and most pervasive domestic surveillance programs in the history of this country. Throughout the duration of CHAOS, the CIA spied on thousands of U.S. citizens. The CIA went to great lengths to conceal this operation from the public while every president from Eisenhower to Nixon exploited CHAOS for his own political ends.
http://www.serendipity.li/cia/lyon.html

Operation Gladio not Glkadio.
Big Paws, little keys.

"I do believe that most of the readers in this forum/news wire, except the weasels who continue to post the insane bull shit like 'even more rational' does, are aware of the real terrorists and their plans for a police state driven by the strategy of tension that stems directly from the play book of the CIA."

I'm sure you're right. The avaerage conspiracy lunatic around here believes all manner of nonsense.

Chemtrails anyone?

As usual you are not addressing the historical facts I presented and are resorting to your usual tactic of side issues.
But that's why you're here, isn't it?
I have yet to see anything from you more than ugly innuendo or psychotic racism. You have not logic, links or rebuttal.
Did you know that you and Wanker are in fierce competition for empty unsupported venom?. But like the hateful viciousness of your accustomed retorts, one can get used to most anything and expect nothing more from you. Care to dispute any of my references? Most likely not. If your responses weren't so rabid and racist, one would think you were merely bitter and retarded.
BTW, I liked the way this site went down for hours after the 'excuse me' post.

For all its foibles, the CIA is hardly all-powerful. Rest assured, there are hundreds of organizations just like it, working on behalf of every ideology, throughout the world.

Spying is not a "new" art.

There's a reason why liberals are out of power and will lose even more power come November: liberal policies do more harm than good. People are finally waking up to what should've been obvious after decades of expensive failure.

The CIA or chemtrails wasn't needed to drive California to the brink of bankruptcy, all THAT took was liberals out in the open, acting like liberals. If Gay Davis (aka former Governor Lowbeam) can be kicked to the curb, there's nothing but hope.

The politics of failure have failed. Now the elephant sweeps up after the jackass.

NOTE: the site now must be shut down for Operation Curtain---er, "regularly scheduled maintenance."

"As usual you are not addressing the historical facts I presented and are resorting to your usual tactic of side issues. "

Yep, here we go again. The old," you never listen to the stuff I say so you must be racist or a bad CIA agent or somethin' ".

Sheepdog, you're a buffoon with inane ideas formed by countless inane websites which you hold up as gospel.

Your research amounts to the fevered readings of similiarly ridiculous cyber fools.

That we so vehemently disagree is the highest accolade to my intellect and humanity.

Now, let's here more about those Chemtrails or your fancy remote controlled planes which crashed the WTC.

Dance!

The US govt under both democrat and republican admins has gone to great lengths to stop historical material damaging the CIA from being published.
Even though the CIA has been very inept at times, they have also killed many and destroyed democracies and individual freedoms across the globe. Unfortunately for them there are some laws in America that come form the Bill of Rights that helps truth to prevail.
Actually anyone who denies the historicity of CIA terror is obviously against these key constructs found in the US Constitution. Now with the Patritot Act and the psychopathic bush regime the rise of these 'anti-constitutionalists' is being sold as 'patriotic' .

It's truly depressing how quickly the ignorant right are willing to torch our liberties for their own illogical and pathetic pride.

:The CIA or chemtrails wasn't needed to drive California to the brink of bankruptcy, all THAT took was liberals out in the open, acting like liberals. If Gay Davis (aka former Governor Lowbeam) can be kicked to the curb, there's nothing but hope.:

The electrical crisis was due to increased marketization of the electrical system. Cali got gamed by companies like Enron. This is privitization that Republicans have pushed for years.

The cities that made out big were those, like LA, that owned their own power plants, who sold their own power at the inflated market rates during the crisis. So, it pays to operate a city-owned public utility.

The folly of "markets for everything" was exposed during the crisis, but, no Democrats really ran with it. They should have hammered on the obvious point: the market should be regulated so that prices are in line with the costs of production. (The potential for a real market is there, but we're nowhere near that situation.)

The electrical crisis was due to increased marketization of the electrical system. Cali got gamed by companies like Enron. This is privitization that Republicans have pushed for years.

Cali got "gamed" by voting for liberals. It's no coincidence (to me) that one of the shittiest public education systems coincides with hordes of democrat voters (both legal and illegal).

California NEVER deregulated its electric companies. The idiots in power called it deregulation but kept price controls in place, which are contrary to what makes a free market work--basing prices on supply and demand

Other states have deregulated their electricity with no problems whatsoever, because they ACTUALLY got out of the way of the market.

I noted that you have nothing to subatanciat your empty words about the benifits of deregulation.
There isn't any.
And your red herring about education was a nice touch but meaningless.

If you're the only lemonade stand in town, and the government's many millions of laws:

1) prevent others from opening lemonade stands
2) control the price at which lemonade may be sold

That is called a "government-owned monopoly."

Real deregulation means:

1) everyone is now permitted to open and run lemonade stands
2) lemonade prices are determined by the market
3) lemonade stands compete for people's business, making lemonade consumers (you) the winner.

The California "Lemonade" Plan was one of semi-regulation, not true deregulation:

"Allow competition but keep price controls"

That means if the price of making lemonade went up from week to week (because sugar got more expensive, etc.) lemonade sellers would still be forced by the government to keep selling lemonade at, say, 5 cents, disallowed to pass along the expense to consumers (who are then free to not buy as much or no lemonade)

Because there is no incentive for consumers to conserve (buy less lemonade) due to price controls, they keep on buying lemonade at 5 cents a glass, even though its costs lemonade sellers 25 cents a glass to make it!

It sounds like a good deal for consumers, until one day there are no more lemonade stands...they're bankrupt!

Sharkonomics 101

Government at least has the waining option of popular control.
Private ownership always represents the largest allowable cut off the top for the owners.
Nice try. I don't buy.

So instead of socialism you want corporatism?

I don't have the luxury of living in a black-n-white world where all business is evil and all government is good.

Revolution, comrades, etc: "good luck with all that."

But you do have the luxury of thinking that business is not government.
Look around, smell the stench of business run government.
They'll get their cut and leave you with the bill.
The problem is that government is now the trained seal of business.
Don't worry, watch the show.

But you do have the luxury of thinking that business is not government.
Look around, smell the stench of business run government.
They'll get their cut and leave you with the bill.
The problem is that government is now the trained seal of business.
Don't worry, watch the show.

6666666666666666

I'm against all forms of welfare. Conservatives want corporate welfare, liberals want social welfare. I want neither. I'm the odd one out.

Good luck. The show is being watched.

You sound like you don't need police, fire or water departments.
Roads schools or public libraries.
Where exactly do you draw the line?

what about critical services?

You sound like you don't need police, fire or water departments.
Roads schools or public libraries.
Where exactly do you draw the line?

**************

The answer is: no one knows. “The line” is constantly on the move, usually for the worst.

Socialism wants wealth redistributed so that all citizens have health care, education and high-paying jobs. Unfortunately, in exchange for this “guaranteed” cradle-to-grave security, the State places itself above citizens. When that happens, the State may then revoke any “rights” it deems inconvenient to the system. This doesn’t mean a whole lot to socialists, who believe that people should be cared for, since they are incapable of self-governance and self-reliance.

The United States is the only country based on the idea that the citizen is higher than the State, and that Rights come from an undefined Creator (or, if you’re atheistically-inclined, the natural act of “being born” bestows these Rights).


What this has to do with taxes I leave you to figure out, except for this hint: which system trusts people with their own money, and which has brought more innovations and prosperity to the greater number of people.

You wrote:"-since they are incapable of self-governance and self-reliance."- meaning socialists.
A true democracy without the fetid grasp of corporate controll would be able to meet the needs of all the people at a huge reduction of taxes for the majority of the citizens. As it stands now we have a very effective socialist system for the wealthy at the expense of our dis empowered many, the less than super rich. Eliminating the control of our government by the puppet masters of extreme wealth would direct this government to provide the promise of 'life liberty and the pursuit of happiness' as was intended for the people of this country without the wanton theft of resources and labor into the already swollen accounts of the few who now benefit from the present condition of elite control. As you have intimated, you really don't know where to draw the line. I think this is a line best drawn by a real democratic, small d, participation.

Thank you for your usual blithering, but I was having an intelligent discussion with someone who was not an idiot parrot like you.

...bushblower is the type of classy guy that farts as he steps off of a crowded elevator....