Anyone down for doing anything a little bit more exciting than another march through Hollywood?

on the Green Chaos site they have some cool games...trying out something new like that would be cool

Or if anyone is interested in breaking off from the ANSWER-led march, that would be nice

just some thoughts (I know LA isn't that radical but these marches are getting pretty stale)

The big problem with big marches that the LAPD likes is that the streets are cleared out BEFORE the march begins, and nobody actually sees the march. (Except the marchers.)

More effective are marches that are not permitted, and happen on sidewalks that are not pre-emptied of people. Seems logical, doesn't it?

So, my proposal is to start a contingent before noon, and plan to intersect with the big march. Along the way, display the signs and do the chants. It's well within your legal rights to march down the sidewalk and chant, even if you are a group of a hundred loud people.

There are numerous potential routes that cross through residential areas. You could go down Franklin. You could go up Wilcox. You could go down Selma. In fact, that would be ideal - to park near the end, and then conduct a march to the start of the route.

does anyone know where the march ends?

La Brea and Sunset

Be careful out there!


WARNING THIS IS THE OPINION OF ONE PERSON, NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE.
PRESERVATION AND INTEGRITY IN ACTION:
This is a short and by no means complete guide to security and safety for radicals, particularly aimed at anarchists.
Locally many anarchists have been arrested and sentenced to insane amounts of jail/prison time for nothing more than dressing in an "anarchist fashion" or simply, and in a greater totality, their politics.
With a few tips and suggestions, and most importantly your awareness and decisiveness, you and your friends/family/comrades can stay safe and out of jail/prison.


Pre-Protest Preparations

1.COMMUNICATION TAPS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT INTELLIGENCE:
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES talk or discuss over the telephone,cell phone, internet (web posts, instant messages, chat rooms),in your car, home, political meeting places, or any other place where
police and federal law enforcement CAN AND WILL hear your conversations. do not say anything that you don’t want a judge, jury, cop, or fed to hear. as paranoid as it sounds people have been caught because they had their tapped conversations used against them in court or in most cases, used for police/fed intelligence reports, which gives the bad guys vital information on you and your associates which ultimately leads to your arrest and possibly others around you. this happens more often than you can possibly imagine. please play it safe even if you don’t believe a word of of this document. in particular don’t not discuss or mention anything ILLEGAL, also it is HIGHLY suggested you don’t even discuss any plans or information that can give the police/feds a heads up on where you are going to be, when, with who, what your are up to, or wearing etc etc.
even joking about these issues can get you arrested, conspiracy is a charge that they like to throw around nowadays and it is a felony, and obviously no joke. using terms such as "Black Bloc", "riot", "revolution", anything remotely incendiary, is a big NO, using the previously mentioned communication methods. One precaution you could take which is for only desperate situations such as being in jail or prison where cells can be tapped is running water,a fan, playing music etc, and then whispering/talking softly to another person(who may be in your cell/group*[see #2] or not). but methods such as that must only be exercised when all other methods have been EXHAUSTED. All hand written notes/plans/computer files or any information inside your house or on your property should either not exist there, or be destroyed when no longer of any use.

2. AFFINITY GROUPS AND CELLS: so how do you plan for an action or discuss sensitive information? the answer lies within an affinity group or cell. an affinity group or cell is a SMALL group(even an individual, the less, the better for most cases) of people with a specific goal or idea who collectively organize together to accomplish said goal through methods of their own agreement. they ONLY discuss such information, tactics and strategies, with their own affinity group/cell( again an emphasis on SMALL, in most cases 1-5 people perhaps,if there are too many people who are trying to form one whole cell/group, splinter off into smaller groups, and DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING WITH ANOTHER GROUP,even people who you know or sympathize with your beliefs and actions cannot know what your cell/group discus’s ,OR EVEN THAT IT EXISTS).to emphasize, NO ONE should know that your cell/group exists, except those in the group, not even your closest friends or comrades can know.
Your cell/group should only discuss information outside(in a non frequented area,not just in front of your home) where it is more difficult to have your conversations recorded. going to a park or public place with lots of background noise will make it difficult for any law enforcement with what’s know as a bionic ear, to hear what you are saying. try and go to new places often, don’t make a habit of going to the same place all the time. a crowded mall would work well too, just remember to keep your voice down when in public, you don’t want any passersby to hear anything that may alarm or concern them. Make it as difficult for the authorities to isolate and destroy your cell/group, take ALL precautions. Remember, all of this is a need to know basis, any person who doesn’t need to know, shouldn’t not know. KEEP IT IN THE GROUP!

3.Literature, Tools and Materials: If you are printing Literature/Propaganda, take caution in where you do it. be sure no one sees what you are printing, no matter how tame it may in fact be. make sure clerks at copy places or places you have Literature produced, don’t see what you are printing. If you are making signs, banners,bringing materials,self defense protection etc. be sure no one in the process of obtaining them is aware that said materials/tools are going to be used for political purposes. when transporting materials(IE en route to protest), conceal or make them as common and not out of the ordinary as possible, even signs,banners and Lit are common reasons for harassment, search and seizure.

4. COMMUTING TO AND FROM PROTESTS:
When going to protests it is a wise choice in many instances but not all, to take public transit. this allows you to not worry about the headache of having your car towed if you are arrested or having your license plate number, and car description documented by authorities. Car-pooling is also a good option. it keeps your group together and on the same page, as well as it saves time so others aren’t looking for parking, and you don’t need to re-group(if the protest is large or in a non familiar place). giving the car keys to someone who isn’t likely to get arrested is a good idea, so that no one is stranded in case the driver is nabbed.depending on your groups decision, you may want to take several cars, there are always exceptions and maybe for logistics or even security you may want to split up, so you are all together not an easy target and then re-group at the action. remember to obey ALL traffic rules and regulations when going to AND from the protest. police/feds use any little violation as a pretense to stop and search everyone.this includes jay walking and other pedestrian violations too.when driving, everyone must wear a seat belt and not be so crowded into the car that it would cause heads to turn.it is highly recommended that any, and all, political or youth(bands for example) orientated stickers be removed from any vehicle. they make it easier for authorities to spot and document your vehicle, as well as spot and document YOU. remember when going to and from the protest to dress,act, and overall appear, like a normal, regular person. exercise all caution and be aware.

From Protest.....To Resistance:

5. WHAT IS A BLACK BLOC?: black bloc is a tactic which has caught the attention of many, including the authorities. for a more full explanation of the tactic, go to: http://www.infoshop.org/blackbloc.html
one should have prior knowledge of the black bloc tactic, going to anarchist web sites and resources, and observing several blocs at protests, before making an attempt at being a part of one.Once that has taken place, and you are comfortable, proceed with the following:
THE ATTIRE:
*All black clothing, long sleeve(preferably a hooded sweatshirt, as it is common), long pants, non distinguishable shoes or boots(i.e. all black, not too flashy), gloves
*bring a change of clothes, most likely wear them under your black clothes, so you can put on or take off your bloc clothes quickly.think of the protest location and dress according to the general population.
*no patches(bands/politics) or identifiable marks (writing,prints,large noticeable stains) that can distinguish you from another bloc participant.if using a bag/back pack for clothes/items, choose black or drag colours.
*a mask. black bandannas are common, also ski masks/balaclavas. if you can, bring both.for example if you show up and everyone has bandannas, you don’t want a ski mask. you may want to switch from bandanna to ski mask or vice versa to throw off any police trying to target you. bandannas are most common. bring extra bandannas if possible, for yourself and others.
*the idea is to blend in and have the bloc look as uniform as possible, try and adapt to that idea as best as possible.

6.GETTING STARTED AND IN MOTION...
*find other anarchists/radicals who already are in bloc, or look for anarchist flags/signs banners and such, so that there is a focal point for people who choose to bloc up.
*If you are comfortable, and you think you have enough people, you could start it off, so that others can see you and join you.
*avoid the use of real names or talking about intimate information about yourself(where you live, what city, perhaps state or country, if that’s the case, people you know, places you go). Use a nickname.
*try and "bloc up" in numbers, don’t put your mask and clothes on before a sufficient number of people are around for cover and protection(safety in numbers), have new comers duck behind a "wall" of people already in bloc. stay together and don’t wander, it is easy for people to get picked off by police when they are alone. if you have to go somewhere, go with AT LEAST one other person, if not the whole group.
*It is HIGHLY suggested that if there aren’t sufficient numbers that you abort the tactic of black bloc for that action, it is too risky for just a hand full of people to attempt one, though there are always exceptions.
*if there are several little blocs running around, try and organize them all together to form one larger bloc.
*at this point people may talk to you so they can "see what you are about", speak as an individual, NOT as a group. DO NOT allow pictures to be taken of you or anyone in bloc, though some friendly people may want to take pictures, kindly inform them that you would rather they not. some blocers don’t mind pics from a distance, but that is up to each individual to decide their own comfort.
*watch for undercovers and police video teams, and call them out, so others are aware. don’t just call anyone a cop, they may not be, just point him/her out to others for their own knowledge. unless you are VERY sure, you may want to more vocally announce undercovers, sometimes when their cover is blown, they leave.
*stay tight while marching, link arms to stay together to avoid being physically grabbed by the police. unlink arms if you and your affinity group decide to go do an action, then come back and re group.
*one tactic is that of "unarresting", when someone is being detained or arrested the bloc can swarm ,engaged the police and hopefully recover their comrade. by using fingernail clippers, you can cut the plastic"mass arrests" zip ties the police use for protests sometimes.
*Above all COMMUNICATE! any concerns, ideas, alerts, anything that you feel the bloc should know, say it. by creating a dialogue people will feel and be safer. sometimes someone may not notice police coming from the rear. say it out loud and clear so people will be aware, same goes for undercovers/infiltrators or any other danger.
* there is no shame in being afraid, or reconsidering doing an action. only if you feel that you will have an overwhelming success , should you continue with said action. there should be NO uncertainty.
NEVER feel pressured to do something that you don’t want to.
*when de-blocing (taking off your black), do it preferably all at once or with as large group of bloc participants as possible. coordinate it so you all can do it together and make it hard for the police to grab stragglers.
remember to duck down and try and hide as you take your black clothes off.

7. THE AFTERMATH...
*leave ALL signs/banners/ excess materials, tools, protective gear that you can. DO NOT carry it with you back to you car, to the bus or home. you could get stopped with incriminating evidence and arrested.
I repeat,DO NOT bring souvenirs! in particular if illegal activity took place, you could get blamed for it. everything that can be abandoned should be, even items of value, or that you paid for(masks perhaps, shields, anything used in an illegal activity that you know of. its really up to you in the end, make a wise choice).
*when leaving, leave in a group. this will keep you safe, and lessen the chance of being singled out. follow the same rules as coming to the protest. blend in. follow all traffic laws, no jay walking, come to complete stops, and don’t speed away.remember your seat belts and try and not be nervous, if that’s the case.
*a good quote goes something like "If police are looking for anarchists wearing black, then anarchists shouldn’t wear black". black bloc is a good tactic, but like everything there are downsides, learn to exploit police stereotypes and intelligence, perhaps a "diversion bloc"? use your imagination, and don’t fall into the many pit falls the authorities have set up for us. the only rules are, there are no rules.
* be aware, and always communicate. jail/prison is no fun if you haven’t heard. stay safe.

for more info please refer to:
www.infoshop.org
www.indymedia.org
http://security.tao.ca/
http://www.radio4all.org/aia/index.html
http://www.teknopunx.co.uk/shieldbook.pdf
http://www.infoshop.org/movement_howto.html

Sure... take advantage of a situation that others have spent months carefully organizing. Just come on in with your silly black bloc pin heads and taunt the police into attacking the entire demonstration. Yeah, good work there.

It was stated:

"It's well within your legal rights to march down the sidewalk and chant, even if you are a group of a hundred loud people."

No, it's not. It used to be but not any more, not after the passage of the euphymistically named "PATRIOT Act." If you demonstrate outside of the Orwellian-named "Free Speech Zones," you can be nabbed as a "enemy combatant" or some other idiotic charge the fascists will come up with to arrest and indict anyone who dares exercise their Constitutional rights. I personally would recommend not giving the bad guys excuses to come down on the good guys.

by the way that last post has been passed around for some time, its just a suggestion. BB does not make you cool, or win you friends, its to be used wisely. like it states dont fall into stereotype pit falls. be careful!

Break away to do what? Break windows and make profits for glass companies? Doing stuff like that will give the capitalist media an excuse to focus only upon that action and not on the mass demonstration so as to win the ratings war by sensationalizing "extremism" and also give viewers the idea that people who are against war are mindless crazies and juvenile delinquents who don't deserve to be taken seriously.

No, it's not. It used to be but not any more, not after the passage of the euphymistically named "PATRIOT Act."

If you don't use your rights, you'll lose your rights. We have a right to be on the sidewalk. (I'm not talking black bloc here. This is just regular people walking to the march.) We have a right to unamplified free speech, and if we don't exercise it now, they'll try to take it away.

Also, your "good guy" and "bad guy" talk is wrong too. Us good guys need to get out and speak up for what's good, or else the bad guys will have won in silencing us. Your advice is counterproductive cowardice.

At the last major protest in Los Angeles a number of people showed up wearing covers over their faces which really annoyed a hell of a lot of people to the point that I watched everyone else keeping their distance. The majority of the protesters were average white middle class office workers, black middle and lower class workers, and students. They were neither radical activists nor did they want extremists standing beside them. BB is much, much worse and anyone who shows up at the March 20'th anti-war / anti-racism / anti-occupation protest thinking they're going to BB will get isolated by the _peaceful_ citizens participating in the protest first and foremost. And nobody will be sympathetic to whatever they think they're going to get away with. Hell, your average citizen is going to cooperate with the authorities and assist them, I'd expect. In the URL I offered here you can see photographs and a short description of each photo covering one of the main Los Angeles / Hollywood protests. The police were photographing anyone they thought might make trouble, taking their photographs and pretty much rummaging through people's belongings (apparently without provocation or search warrants) apparently if they fit whatever profiles they were told to look at. You can see the police -- who were well behaved that day -- photographing people trying to find out who the organizers and main players were (there were a few) but mostly focusing on people who "looked like trouble." Pulling a BB is a stupid mistake on all fronts. The protests are supposed to be about opposing violence -- that violence conducted by corporate States like BushCo and that violence conducted by individuals. A BB type offense contradicts everyting these protests are supposed to be against. Any violent kook who joins our protests isn't welcome. Citizens who spot unwelcome behavior certainly have a moal duty to inform such people that they're not welcome. My opinions only, of course, and speaking only for myself.

What utter and complete stupidity.

Your advice is counterproductive cowardice.

Yeah, obeying the law so you don't wind out in an American prisin in Cuba at the hands of the fascist juanta is so cowardly. Yep!

Time to face some facts: You don't have the right to picket and protest where you will any more. Those days have past thanks to Bush. Pretending you're going to be some heroic martyr by thwarting the fascists and that it's some how going to change anything is childish and stupid. You won't even get your name in the paper because that's the way the system works.

No offense intended.

As far as "bad guy / good guy" is concerned, you're welcome to your mistaken opinions.

Meyer, they usually ignore the mass demos. This time, they won't because the big media are gunning for Bush so he'll lose. Usually, though, the media completely ignore and trivialize demonstrations. That's why the IMC was founded.

And, even if there is no black bloc, there are usually some people in black doing damage, called the riot cops. The cops like to play that up for the media, because it feeds into the idea that there are masses of violent protesters. In fact, if 5,000 people show up, probably 1 or 2 will get picked off by the cops. Usually, it's not violence, but bad attitude or insolence, that gets someone's head cracked.

These demos often inspire nothing more than boredom, and they don't make for exciting news untils some blood is spilled.

BB activities can be banner drops, theater or just diversionary messing with the heat. Don't box me in with your pre-set ideas.

What utter and complete stupidity.

Your advice is counterproductive cowardice.

Yeah, obeying the law so you don't wind out in an American prisin in Cuba at the hands of the fascist juanta is so cowardly. Yep!

Time to face some facts: You don't have the right to picket and protest where you will any more. Those days have past thanks to Bush. Pretending you're going to be some heroic martyr by thwarting the fascists and that it's some how going to change anything is childish and stupid. You won't even get your name in the paper because that's the way the system works.

No offense intended.

As far as "bad guy / good guy" is concerned, you're welcome to your mistaken opinions.

In the original post there is no mention of BB.

I said 'something beyond another ANSWER demo'. This was brought up because these protests could be a lot LESS boring.

Maybe when you see the world from one angle-looking for change in institutions and Not in yourself-you can't understand people who strive for freedom from all these institutions.

You can think what you want about anarchists, BBs, etc. but you don't have to wear black and you don't have to smash windows to be against capitalism and the state. So watch yourself because the ideas you are criticizing could be those of many of the people in blue jeans and a t shirt marching next to you

Maybe someone could just bring a soccer ball? or do you think the LAPD might break out the tear gas on the peaceful marchers for that, too?

FOR THOSE WHO STRUGGLE FOR MORE THAN MEDIA COVERAGE

Yeah, obeying the law so you don't wind out in an American prisin in Cuba at the hands of the fascist juanta is so cowardly. Yep!

Whatever you're drinking... I'll have some of that. I'm talking about people getting organized to march in public places, on the sidewalk. How is anyone going to land in Guantanamo from doing that?

"Pretending you're going to be some heroic martyr by thwarting the fascists and that it's some how going to change anything is childish and stupid. You won't even get your name in the paper because that's the way the system works."

Where did this come from? All I've ever brought up is the idea of having an ad-hoc unpermitted march in a residential area so people will see the signgs. No balaclavas, no police confrontations, not even media coverage. No Anger! It's about communicating the critical message, not venting about what panics us.

I've checked your website out, and, well. I thought *I* was paranoid, but you've got me beat.

FOOD NOT BOMBS is sponsoring an after-march dinner social from 5 pm to 8 pm near the start of the March 20 march, at 6021 Hollywood Blvd, (the Qtopia Events Center).

Free food for the first 300 hungry marchers, plus vendors, speakers, poetry, and bands, including Resistant Culture.

Sponsored by ROCK CITY NEWS, ANSWER, and NOT IN OUR NAME, this will be a chance to socialize and unwind from the long march. The Qtopia Events Center holds 1,400 people, has two stages and multiple rooms, tons of parking, and is only two blocks East of Vine.

There have been a few suggestions for a "break away" march... everything from Black Bloc, banner drops, and even playing soccer!

Here's a suggestion, that NO ONE has done before.

Each individual or small group who is bored with the idea of a mass march... take some time to produce a large number of creative flyers packed with information. The flyers can be rants that express your opinions on the government, war, ways to make change, etc. Make sure your flyers have plenty of urls to informative website where more information can be found.

Form a team of friends... and at the demo, pass out your thousands of flyers to those bystanders on the sidewalks. At the last mass march in Hollywood... there were literally tens of thousands of tourists from around the country and the world who witnessed to huge march... but there was very little interchange between the marchers and those who observed it.

The point is to get folks organized... and that takes work. You need to talk with people, engage them in debate, inform them of things they may not know. The folks along the march should know us as PEOPLE WITH OPINIONS AND POSITIONS... and not just a bunch of weirdos dressed up holding signs and chanting angry slogans.

If thousands of people were to show up armed with flyers of their own making... flyers that express solid thinking and proposals, and teams of people covered the entire Hollywood area handing out those flyers, then the impact of March 20 will be great indeed.

Where did this come from?

Looks like there's some reading comprehension problems, huh?

Fact is in this discussion there's been a call for a "breakaway" which will invite the fascists to crack down on everyone, and there's been an even worse discussion about "Bloack Block" which will give the fascists all the excuses they need.

Fine; do a "break away" all you want, just don't do it anywhere near the LA protest this March 20'th.

And yes, when you can find anything "sadly mistaken" in any of my web sites, do email me with specifics, won't you? Thank you so much in advance for your assistance.

similar exchange, some other ideas:

a second march route for 3/20?

Breakaway marches break away from the main march as has been done successfully scores of times at huge demonstrations all over the country. There is no evidence that this causes problems for anyone other than the corporate media and the cops. So stop the hype!

As regards the specific claim that at the last major LA march there was any sort of problem I can only assume that you're deliberately spreading misinformation or you have a very warped view of reality. I was at that march and I was not in the black block. I would probably never join a black block because I don't want the level of excitement and interaction with the cops that that would plunge me into. I do however completely support the brave people that do this and think that they have been one of the only reasons that any sort of anti-war, anti-capitalist movement exists at all in the USA. You'd probably think to look at me that I'm a very conservative, middle-class, middle-aged person, but I completely applaud and support anyone taking part in a black bloc

If all we're going to do is march out of anyone's sight (seriously Meyer and F-whatever-your-name-was at this next ANSWER march leave the march and go a block or two away from the march: you'll have NO evidence that it's happening. Look for it on the TV and after they've halved the police underestimate of the numbers they'll mention it briefly with no context, no long drawn out analysis, no depth) it'll make little difference. That's not to say that a black bloc will make any difference itself, but it'll have a chance of shaking things up and energising the event. It might lead to a sit-in, a blockade, an occupation, who knows.

Bottom line: you're not getting any useful coverage from the press anyway so don't start stifling people trying to do something different.

Sidenotes: a black bloc is a defensive tactic designed to make it hard for the police or whoever to pick you out of the herd for special treatment, like zebra all having those confusing stripes it makes it hard for the predators to focus on one individual. It first came to attention in the USA at Seattle when the police attacked the peaceful sit-down NVDA protestors and started gassing and clubbing them. Then people masked up and defended themselves. In other words Black blocs don't hurt people: COPS hurt people

Hook up in the real world. Filter out the spooks and then plan something useful. .

Form co-opts. Feed the homeless. Build shelters for the homeless and defend them. Win people over with kindness and acts of courage.

The Hollywood march is just another ANSWER parade. Permitted planned protests are only useful to met like minded folks at. Then get together later and plan something else, somewhere else.
Don't wait for ANSWER to get people out in the streets.

There are other events planned for that day. Go to the gathering of the vigils in Mar Vista Park for example and reach out to a local and truly grassroots peace group (one with no political baggage).

Go do a banner drop on a freeway overpass.
Get 10 people and picket a recruitment center.
Do something creative in your own neighborhood.
Block off the street where you live with your fellow BB folks and stage something real.
Most of the riot cops will be in Hollywood, go some where else where they are not. Have a Black Bloc party on the 10. March on the 405. Imagine if enough people had the guts to lay down on the runways at LAX. Unionists did this in France. They shutdown all fights into and out of Paris. Activists in the rest of the world look at our “protests” and start laughing and say “you call that a protest” “you applied for a permit! to protest!”

Real activists don’t ask “what should we do” They get together and take action.

homies attitude is rad. s/he knows whats up best listen kidos.
see you in the streets

I think a breakaway would be good. We should put all these ideas together and work with them. Like @ said all the police will be focused on the protest and we should have a BB party somewhere else. And then active suggested we hand out flyers we should do all breakaway and hand out flyers instead of focusing on one area we should try and cover area. Just another suggestion.

I was diverging from the thread and suggesting something that's an inversion of the breakaway march -- the feeder march. I suggested that people form feeder marches *on the way* to the main march. (We're going to need to park far away anyway.)

Instead of just walking to the march, turn that stroll into a march in itself. Engage people by walking down residential streets and making some noise. Then, after that, join the big march.

This is not as risky as a breakaway, because you're not within the march before you reach it. Once the cops have you walking behind those flimsy yellow "do not cross" tapes, they'll have you trapped! (You may not realize it, being in the march, but it looks pathetic to walk behind those tapes. It's a mobile "free speech area.")

There are other ideas too. You can start a contingent to engage in some creative acts to get attention.

Every month, the Critical Mass in San Francisco mobilised thousands of bike riders to take over the streets. They did it without permits.

In the southland, outside of the ANSWER scene, activists organize marches that are small, but engage hundreds of people in their homes, and build awareness that there is resistance in the community. These are not permitted.

Around LA, every week, dozens of peace vigils happen. Some are small, and some are large, and none require permits.

see the attached list

This sounds so much like a ploy to get unarmed peaceful protesters arrested and maltreated by the LAPD. Anyone reading this should be wary.

Suspicious is being paranoid but given the level of fear pumped into the culture by the state this is understandable.

Sometimes its hard to tell when we are being rightful careful and when we are being paranoid. In this case one could say that given what happened at the 2000 DNC the LAPD does not need to play mind games on some internet site
to prepare an attack on unarmed peaceful protesters. They just start shooting. It’s all on video. Some of it may still be archived on this site.

Of course in the aftermath of Miami everyone should be security aware. And the internet is the least secure forum of all. So meet up in the real world ie get out of the matrix

There is no real point to mixing it up with the cops. Direct action is about doing something that is effective, not getting beat up. Go some where else where there are no cops in full riot gear waiting for someone to do something stupid. We do not have the numbers to engage them head on. Be creative, there are many ways to fight the system without getting hurt. We need all of you out there healthy and active, not in prison.

all ive got to say is if anyone is actualy checking out "fredrick l rice's" website you can clearly see who the actual fucking kook is. jesus man, do you have any life at all or even any sort of touch on reality?

"A picture of cult leaders herding the remaining robots into the building quickly" -fredrick l rice


i greatly enjoy your website for left wing nut comedy. jesus man, you really need to get ahold of your self and you really need to get ahold of reality. To all who actualy keep responding to his posts please go to his website for further backround information and i doubt you will be able to take him seriously, he is just some old "kook" with nothing going for him in his life. His photos are also greatly hilarious with photos of random girls walking by at protests and greatly corny notes for each photo. How about you let us make the changes that truly need to happen and we can let you... rot is wacko land?



*Capitalism cannot be reformed*

I'm a cop? Go look at the rest of my posts. I'm no cop.

I think the cops were posting some of those iraqi resistance solidarity and the al-qaeda spy guy posts. Just look them up. All the hallmarks for cops -- they think we're all loony, so they put together some "extreme" phrasings, and let loose. With that bait, they catch people who aren't very smart.

would people be interested in joining an anti-capitalist contingent? The point would be to bring out messages about the war that arent the typical leftist jargon, and focus more on how capitalism is the root cause of war, ect... This contingent could be organized as a feeder march, could become a breakaway march, or jcould just be a march in a different area than the ANSWER march completely.. who knows.. what do people think?

capitalism = war

This sounds so much like a ploy to get unarmed peaceful protesters arrested and maltreated by the LAPD. Anyone reading this should be wary.

The probability of there being any agent provocateurs mixed in with the peaceful protesters approaches certainty -- even without past atrocities like TermCon and the attempted murder of Judi Berri.

But that shouldn't matter... the people out there protesting against fascism are supposed to be against law breaking. Stuffing bad guys among the protesters should by rights be pointless since the goals and mentality of the protesters should be against whatever the provocateurs dream up.

When "block block" or other extremist individuals join peaceful protests, however, they frock it up for everyone else and provocateurs from the fascist regime will target those people and use it as an excuse to drop bricks on everyone's rights -- even more so than currently under this regime.

Let the goons join and try to provoke the peaceful law abiding demonstrators, I say, but don't condone the lawlessness that "black block" advocate.

So far as "break away" is concerned, again if protesters break away and demonstrate outside of "free speech zones," all of the demonstrators will get splattered with the same paint brush under this oppressive regime and until our rights are reinstated, breaking away seems a bad idea.

and......you are a loony, go away.

my affinity group will be down fo anti capitalist contingent...like whoa

Join the March 20th Anti-Capitalist Contingent
To Abolish War, We must Abolish Capitalism!

War is not the problem. War is only a symptom of larger problems, those problems being our current economic and poltical systems. We will never have a world without war as long as we live in a system based on borders, competition and the quest for profits without regard for human life.

Last year, we marched through city streets & rain, held weekly vigils, lit candles, wrote letters, obeyed their laws, their rules. We fit perfectly into the system’s preexisting routes for voicing our dissent and rage, ones which did not threaten the status quo ….

Nothings changed!
The administration was not moved. We were a million plus “focus group.”
And so….the occupation of Iraq continues…

Our rage over this unjust war stems from our rage at the system that makes it profitable, and any protest, demonstration, or action should be an act against this system! Reach out to other activists in the movement and let them know that there is an alternative
to the state, capitalism and the wars those systems perpetuate.

Bring drums, literature, banners, flags, your hearts, voices, & creativity. Celebrate our movement. With each day, autonomy & freedom are drawing closer…

When: March 20th, Global day of protest against the occupation of Iraq
Where: 12 noon - ANSWER rally in Los Angeles at the intersection of Hollywood & Vine.

For the contingent, look for banners and black flags (maybe towards the front of the march).

Nothings changed! The administration was not moved. We were a million plus “focus group.” And so…. the occupation of Iraq continues…

Nixon and his ilk were also not moved by the massive anti-war protests of his time, and neither is the current fascist regime -- nor can they be moved. Money is what drives these madmen and the average citizen has zero power to change anything.

The lawful exercise of one's right to demonstrate is the only method available to citizens to show other citizens that they're not alone in their distain for wrongs being committed. Unlawful demonstrations eat into the message and credibility protesters attempt to convey which is why doing "black block" or currently illegal "break aways" is such a bad idea.

As you say, nothing changes as a result of lawful protests but at least they let voters know that once they get disabused of the lies of this fascist regime, voting for someone else -- even something as unsavory as the Democratic Party -- is something many people will hold their noses and do; so they're not alone.

We all have a legal right to gather and protest.

ANSWER likes to get permitted posts because they organize very large protests, and there's a liability associated with holding these big events.

The events have media value, and for that I'm grateful.

Logistically, though, they don't engage with the same impact of a smaller demonstration like a peace vigil on a corner. A regular vigil of 10-50 people has a long term impact on people's thinking that a big demo doesnt.

Sure, some people think they're nuts to be standing around with signs, but, a significant fraction, perhaps a majority, identify with the messages. Especially today, when the people are starting to realize that "those people on the corner" were right, and the media were wrong, and that Bush lied.

Protesters today have a level of credibility that they haven't had in years. Let's not destroy this by being self-indulgent vandals. Let's not destroy this by being meek either -- the meek rely on those of us with freedom to represent for them. What we want from them is their participation in the greater resistance to the lies, illusions, and enemies of freedom (aka, capitalists).

"It is easy to blame the government for what happened during those trying years ... [However,] the enemy is our own fear and complacency, our reluctance to be personally responsive to that which we find untenable." -Yosh Kuromiya on the JA internment, and war resister.

"enemies of freedom (aka, capitalists)."

Just dumb.

Not entirely. Capitalism drives those with money to acquire more -- as much as possible -- without reguard for the long term or even short term health, safety, or wellfare of those who assist in acquiring the additional wealth. Rights, freedoms, ethics all don't factor into traditional Capitalism yet neither does equality: Capitalism requires inequality where someone is on top and someone is on the bottom.

True, Capitalism is the only workable model outside of small villages, but the fact that Capitalism is the best viable economic model doesn't detract from the fact that it requires a measure of slavery among those who little to have no money.

"Enemies of freedom" is rather extreme when applied to the average corporation or business that wants to exist solely to make a reasonable profit. But the phrase certainly is completely valid when applied to Bush and the other fascists.

It's not quite so dumb.

My opinions only, of course, and speaking solely for myself.