We are not living in normal times in LA or anywhere. Even many mainstream political observers are finally waking up to just how VERY dangerous the fundamentalist neo-con onslaught really is in Washington (see Republican Kevin Phillips' "American Dynasty", as one example). Unless you want to court the very real possibility that you (and perhaps your children) may spend your remaining years under marshall law or in some dingy internment camp, you'd be a fool to have anything to do with Ralph Nader at this point in time.

This is no exaggeration or the ravings of some paranoid conspiracy theorist. I too, campaigned and voted for Nader in 2000, partly in the hope that if Bush did win (which he didn't), the neo-cons would galvanize the left. That actually happened (witness millions in the streets last year), but I vastly under-estimated how really dangerous the Bush regime could be. Now we all see and if you don't feel the chill you're not paying attention. I'm looking 60 in the face and i've NEVER seen anything in this nation that looks remotely as threatening to freedom, democracy, the U.S. Constitution and the well-being of the biosphere as the regime that is now occupying Washington. Simply said: there's zero room for Nader on the precipice of the new fascism that now threatens to engulf any freedoms we have remaining.

Another four years of the Bush regime? Not on your life. If we have to take Ralph down in the effort to save this land from the neo-con fundamentalists, so be it. The lives of my children and my grandchildren are far more important.; your lives and those of your loved ones are far more important . We can deal with the duopoly and the corporados under Kerry or whomever, but under an entrenched Bush regime we won't even have the space. Join the resistance to Bush and Nader. It's truly a matter of life and death.

You think you are going to be protected by someone you are allowed to elect?
Buy a nice .30 cal. rifle, a few hundred rounds of hunting ammo and start talking to your neighbors.
Stop wetting your pants because this program of fear is a result of the enemy's knowledge that they are sitting on a mountain of rage.
It's a showdown and by the looks of your reaction we have lost already.

No one believes Kerry will protect us. What we know is that Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, Cheney and Bush have got to go. If Kerry is even an 80% improvement on Bush, that's a hell of alot more we'll get than buy voting for Nader and receiving Bush as the prize.

I do not support Kerry but he has my vote.

Once Kerry is elected, we'll take him down with dissent.

that a self labled anarchist is so enamored on one particular Skull & Bones candadate....
call me a suspicious bastard.

every is scared and that is why SUVs are so popular
the greatest american product is fright and cowardess.

Unless you believe that Nader could win and would bring about revolutionary change, I see no reason to vote for him. Elections will not change the United States, only revolution will. That does not mean that voting cannot be used tactically for the sake of improving the position of dissidents.

I stated that I do not support Kerry. I stand by that. If Bush is a fascist and Kerry is a "kinder and gentler fascist," then Nader is just another liberal prick with little concept of what is needed to improve the US. Why would an anachist support Nader? Nader is PRO-GOVERNMENT?

The only choice in the elections that will diminish the police state is Kerry. No, it won't eliminate the police state, but it will make the police state easier to fight.

Think four dimensionally and get your head out of the present. Change occurs over time and not in a moment.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20040126&s=ireland

Nader and the Newmanites
by Doug Ireland

What in the world is Ralph Nader doing in bed with the ultrasectarian cult-racket formerly known as the New Alliance Party?

That's the question raised by Nader's January 11 appearance as the featured speaker at a conference in Bedford, New Hampshire, of so-called "independents" that is nothing more than a front for the New Alliance crazies. The conference was arranged by something called the Choosing an Independent President 2004 Campaign ("ChIP"). ChIP's organizers--or "convenors," as they style themselves--are none other than Dr. Fred Newman, the cult's guru, a master manipulator and former associate of mad Lyndon LaRouche; and Dr. Lenora Fulani, the Afro-American former presidential candidate of the New Alliance Party, whom Newman describes as his "greatest creation."

Newman controls his followers through a brainwashing scheme--which he baptized "Social Therapy"--that has been described by one deprogrammed former member of his group as a "sophisticated indoctrination methodology which impairs critical thinking skills and which uses repression, dependency and guilt-inducing techniques to control and lure patients into political activity and, ultimately, into blind allegiance to Newman."

There's nothing at all "independent" about Newman and Fulani's latest creation, ChIP. It's just the latest in a skein of more than two dozen front groups and rackets Newman has created, all of which have as their ultimate goal nothing more than enlarging the cult and subsidizing Newman's and Fulani's lavish lifestyles.

When the Newmanites and Fulani took over New York's Independence Party, they turned it into their most recent cash cow, renting themselves out to billionaire Republican Mayor Michael Bloomberg in his first campaign (Bloomberg wanted an additional ballot line as a hedge in case he lost the GOP primary). Before that, the Newmanites had helped Pat Buchanan in his putsch that took over the remnants of the Reform Party for Pat's last presidential run. And they hired themselves out to help perennial candidate and multimillionaire real estate developer Abe Hirschfeld, the meshuganeh who was jailed for trying to murder a former business associate and who then tried to hire a hitman to off the judge who sentenced him.

The long and sorry history of the Newmanites and their lucrative political con-jobs has been well chronicled (see, for example, two probing Nation articles by Bruce Shapiro: "Buchanan-Fulani: New Team?" Nov. 1, 1999, and "Dr. Fulani's Traveling Snake-Oil Show," May 4, 1992; and a report by Political Research Associates' excellent director, Chip Berlet, "Clouds Blur the Rainbow--How Fred Newman & Lenora Fulani Use Totalitarian Deception to Manipulate Social and Political Activists. Historical Background on the New Alliance Party," available on PRA's website, "The Public Eye," at www.thepubliceye.org, along with a ton of other material on the Newmanites; there are also reports available by the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith).

Now, I'm no knee-jerk Nader-basher. Indeed, I wrote columns in support of Nader's 2000 presidential candidacy, and I was even one of some two dozen hardy souls who signed a 1996 New York Times ad supporting Nader's campaign that year, as my protest against the endless corruptions of Bill Clinton. But a Nader presidential candidacy this year makes no sense to me, for a host of reasons. It wouldn't have been justifiable even if Ralph had decided once again to become the Green Party's candidate, a course he has now rejected; it will have even less of a rationale if he decides to run as an independent.

Nader's flinging himself into the embrace of the Newmanites--the dregs of extremist political culture--is, to borrow Talleyrand's celebrated phrase, worse than a crime, it's a mistake. And a mind-bogglingly dumb one at that. The only press coverage I could find of the Bedford meeting was some cub reporter's article in the January 12 Manchester Union-Leader, which completely ignored that the conclave was a New Alliance operation. But one cannot believe that a politically sophisticated chap like Ralph doesn't know exactly who Newman and Fulani are, and why they are so despicable. For Ralph to grace a Newman front group with his presence is the equivalent of cuddling up to Scientology, another cult-racket. I wanted to ask him why he is so desperate for applause that he has to turn to these dangerous loonies, but he didn't return my calls. It's a pathetic way for Nader to begin a last, counterproductive campaign.

And despite Ralph's important, decades-long contributions to citizen activism, it's a sign that in his eerie isolation he may be losing his political judgment. I find that sad--and I pray that he will in the end decide against another run that would be immensely damaging to his image and his legacy.

I agree that Nader should not be supported, but relying on quotes from fascist organizations such as the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith is not a wise tactic in arguing. The ADL is pro-fascist all the way. The only fascists they don't like are the fascists that hate Jews. All other fascists are just peachy keen in their book.

the article is lifted fron the Nation mag.

Tell me, Mr. Repentant Pseudo-Daniel Shays, if Kerry gets in and does the same kind of things that President William "Bill the Reactionary" Clinton did - cutting off welfare mothers, impoverishing entire nations through free trade/globalization schemes like NAFTA, making more Federal offenses punishable by the death penalty, flinging cruise missles at peasants and other helpless people around the world, committing perjury during a sexual harassment trial (the Paula Jones case) and then claiming he was being impeached for a little harmless hanky-panky with Monica Lewinski, encouraging the deindustrialization of the United States, ignoring calls for a national health care system and instead proposing an insurance-company backed bureacratic nightmare of a private scheme that was sure to be rejected by both right and left, killing millions of people by sanctions in some country that, like Iraq, has the nerve to defy the United States, and conducting a joint and savage bombing campaign with the Luftwaffe against a country that has done the US no harm (like Yugolslavia) - should we conclude that you are an ally of the fascists who needs to be "taken down"?

Nader is an ego driven populist politician. He's done a lot of great work with Common Cause, the PIRGs, and so forth. He's only running because he lot all his power within the liberal parts of the Democratic Party, and needs to build some power. The only way he's going to do that is to align himself with the burgeoning new grassroots progressive populism. (He's always been more of a "get in front of the movement" type of leader than a "let's create a movement". He's just a much better trendspotter than the C-student/fratboy/politician who thinks OutKast is "underground.")

Nader can't be a spoiler, because nobody is going to vote for him. He'll only appeal to people who hate politicians. He'll crash and burn, and never be asked to run again, not even by the Greens. So what? I don't think he really cares. Greens are about as steadfast as cats; they left the party to work for Kucinich in droves.

Kerry won't be that much of a change from Bush, and that's just how the people in power want it. It's not just the Dems who want Bush out, but the "paleo-cons" (aka the old fashioned isolationist nativists) and the rich Republicans. Bush's naked agression turned into "the emperor's new clothes." It's fragmented the Republican party, upsetting the populist base it needs to squeak by in the elections (because, let's face it, there aren't enough rich voters to elect a single Republican to office; they need the Christians the way the plantation owners needed the slaves.)

The rich preferred the Clintonesqe charade of free-trade, welfare reform, and a balanced budget. That's what Reagan fought hard for, and what Clinton delivered. Rich guys payed him back by unleashing capital. Clinton went to war more than Bush, but nobody remembers, and that's how the rich guys like it. They hate populism. They want Kerry in to pacify the angry masses.

So what? I read writers in there I don't like. Chris Hitchens, wannabe conservative who finally went con. Kirkpatrick Sale, boring luddite. Marc Cooper, good writer, but an elitist know-it-all. I just recently read a defense of the anti-immigrant Sierra Club slate in the Nation website. It was disgusting, both the barefaced nativism of the slates platform, and the fact the Nation website published it.

There's a new New Left, and the Nation can get on board or it'll leave the station without them.

The new new media is self-reporting, self-educating, and networked. The old New Left is still rehashing "Black Like Me" and getting Barb Ehrenreich (who I like BTW) to go undercover and work at Wal-Mart, and write a book about it. The new New Left are working at Wal-Mart because all the writer jobs are taken, and they need to make some money! But we have a damn website.

Raid the Wal-Marts for their guns, and...

Reject the concept that the elections represent democratic process. The only way we'll get a democracy is through revolution. Since revolution won't happen until we convince enough people that one is needed, voting for Kerry will remove a retarded asshole surrounded by Neo-Con fascists from the White House.

One can vote for Kerry without supporting Kerry. One can throw a stone in a window without thinking that it will change the world. Voting for Kerry is not an endorsement of Kerry, it is an act taken to remove the Neo-Cons from office.

I'm a bit tired of the "let's all go to hell in a handbasket because the guy holding the handbasket is not a fascist or liberal" bullshit. Voting for Nader increases the chance of MORE power for the FBI, MORE power for Homeland Security, MORE invasions, MORE repression against Arab-Americans and MORE assholeness on the right.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Take one out, plug another in. Do we keep the evil we know, or replace it with the evil we don't know? I have no reason to believe Kerry won't do exactly like Bush. Neo-cons or no-neocons, they're both the same fascist brownshirts. Dissent won't bring down Kerry anymore than it brought down Bush. Don't vote, you only encourage them.

Fuck I'm stoned.

not voting is probably the most retarded thing to do in this country at this moment.

I agree with anarchist that a vote for kerry is not a support for kerry. Its a vote against someone who is almost guaranteed to make the whole planets lives much worse. Kerry is a wild card, but judging by some of the company he keeps, he probably won't be as shitty as our esteemed...

And all the while continue organizing, talking to your neighbors and building a grass-roots democracy to take the country back from all the irresponsible people who put profits before people- including kerry.

The problem is structural. The president is nothing but a hood ornament. He's not in charge. The government isn't in charge. The corporations are in charge. They control the food supply, the energy supply, the land, the money, the means of production, the means of communication and the government. Forget the government. Forget the president. Go after the real power, the men who own the corporations.

>>Getting rid of Bush wont solve the problem.<<

Neither will installing Kerry, I agree. Kerry is no better than Bush, and probably is worse since he gives some people a false sense of hope in believing things may actually get better. Kerry will get away with things that some would never let Bush get away with simply because he's deemed as "less threatening". Kerry will will do everything the corporate masters want him to do, just like Bush is now. He's no different. They're the same person.

I guess we're all agreed. We'll vote for Kerry or whichever Democrat the party puts in front of us, but what next?

Organizing neighbors is one thing.

How should progressives get out there and take advantage of this anti-conservative moment to get a genuine progressive message out there?

The real problem isn't just Bush, but the larger project of neoliberalism and US-dominated (and Germany, UK, and Japan dominated) expansion. How do we educate people to find alliance with the people who make the objects we buy at the store, and the people who grow food for these workers?

I'm not voting for any corporate controlled candidate, especially Kerry. This voting for the lesser evil Bullshit don't work with me. If you want to sell your soul to the corporatists, don't come around my door asking, "What's next?". You're part of the problem.

It gets so... comon place to see the flock stampeded into the slaughter shoot.
Getting the moron in office was one move and offering a 'nicer' choice
is another.
Good asshole vs, bad asshole.
Most of the herd doesn't deserve any rights as they drag the few who can think, with them, into the tar pit.
I'll just get ready to take a few fascists with me when they come.

Help get Bush re-selected. Nothing would build the left opposition more than 4 more years. An election isn't going to strengthen the movement. Selling our souls so Kerry can get elected just so the Democrats can gobble up the left and actually do more harm to the movement than Bush ever could. And they'd still have the Iraq War and war on terror and the patriot act and the FTAA and the draft and no health care and 400 billion a year for the military and.....

And please people, stop calling Bush, Kerry and Nader fascists. If fascists are in power right now then why is this website allowed to exist? How come I can go stand on a corner and protest and nobody attacks or kills me? How come there are hundreds of left wing meetings and events taking place all over L.A. every month? If fascists were in power they would show up at these events and beat and kill people.

If you don't know history, then you don't know when it's not repeating itself.