Arabs need to try nonviolence





I have been thinking, yet again, about the Middle East since that Palestinian mother of two kids decided the time had come to blow herself up and take some Israelis with her.

This kind of violence has been gathering steam over the last year. Terrorism is no longer the business of only male Muslims. Now female terrorists also believe they can fly into the arms of Allah in bits and pieces. I wonder what the female equivalent of the 70 virgins supposedly awarded the male terrorist in heaven amounts to.

It seems to me that if the most extreme Palestinians were not so infected with their conventional attitude toward struggle - kill, kill and kill again - they might have considered the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s tactic: aggressive nonviolence.

Had they ever done that, there would have been a Palestinian homeland long ago. Israel would have had to make a deal with people who refused to spill blood but were quite willing to go to jail in large numbers - men, women and children - until they got their day at the negotiating table.

Men such as Ariel Sharon would not have become important in Israeli politics, because strongmen mean essentially nothing in the world of nonviolence. They can't make threats about using hit squads to kill terrorists, because the only weapons being used are nonviolent disruptions in the streets, the stores, the workplaces. Their tanks would mean nothing unless they were willing to give orders to run over the people seated on the road blocking them. Rubber bullets used on nonviolent people wouldn't play too well on television.

Due to a long and deep moral tradition, the Israeli people would begin to crumble and start to identify - with the women and children first, then the men. Eventually, the Israeli troops would refuse even to tear gas the nonviolent demonstrators. That is the nature of civilized societies - even those born and bred in a climate of hostility.

Though such an approach would have worked - and still would work - it has never seemed attractive to the Palestinian extremists. That's partly because it is unusual. And partly because, like Malcolm X and all the other fat mouths of King's lifetime, they've been influenced by the self-righteous fantasy violence that has been a staple of American entertainment, especially in the costume dramas, Westerns and gangster films that Hollywood has produced in great abundance for more than 60 years.

Nonviolence is the tactic of cowards, the anti-King contingent would say. A real man would stand up to the enemy with his gun in his hand - ready to die, if necessary.

Well, King won. That is something the Palestinians should consider. The human will of the people can always be stronger than the madness of the fools.

Originally published on January 26, 2004

(1) Why do you fail to suggest that the Israelis need to try non-violence?

(2) If the Palestinians are so violent, why have more Palestinians been killed than Israelis?

(3) What about the fact that non-violence only works against non-fascists? The fascist response to non-violence is always slaughter. Since Israel is fascist, a non violent response will be interpreted as weakness. The consequence of that interpretation will be the slaughter of Palestinians.

Non violence did not work against Hitler and it will not work against Sharon.

The movie "Red Dawn" sums it up pretty well..

What would you do if soldiers invaded your country and set up checkpoints, started killing people for fun & sport and made it impossible to earn a living ?

Then when you do take action they *lie to the world* and while failing to mention the above, all they want to talk about - and demonize - is *only* your reaction to the occupation ?

The redcoats did exactly the same thing - called the forefathers of this country "terrorists" and tried to convince anyone stupid enough to listen that they were pure as the driven snow.

Our forefathers returned the favor on the Indians, invaded then called them "savages" when they reacted..

But again look at the numbers - 25.million now down to a few..

People see through this game - who do trolls think they're fooling when hundreds of photographs tell the story ?

1.It is quite obvious you have only been looking at pictures from the last three years. AND that those pictures don't show the billions Israel poured in before that for schools, hospitals and Palestinian Police which shot at Israelis in the end. Added to that is your misinterpretation of who started this Intifada and why the checkpoints had to be set up. Along with the Palestinian racist doctrine that because you are Jewish you should be put in the sea.

It is also obvious that you don't know how many people really died here in the U.S. for civil rights.

Third of all, while the media does play a large part in deception worldwide, you have also been a victim of a one sided story. The fact remains, Jews bought the land, and defended themselves from racism once the Muslims declared their little Holy War. Jews do not discriminate within Israel, there is no race requirement for buying a house, whereas, if you are a Jew attempting to live in an Arab area you will be attacked. The current situation is exacerbated by violence on both sides, but the Jewish population did not start it, they are simply better at fighting.

And last of all, how can you explain that many of the dead on your list of casualties who fall under the designation of Palestinian were actually killed by suicide bombers themselves.

Israel is not perfect, but for the most part when they fight they fight like men, face to face with the enemy, and they don't send children or women to kill innocents who are from all over the world and not even Jewish.

Sorry, one more thing, do you think you can get some balanced coverage or do you have to be totally racist against Jews, the only fascism I see is on this site. Upon researching this guy who wrote the article, he is no troll, but rather a musician and activist. What good does it do you to alienate a guy who preeches MLK's theories? MLK ROCKS AND YOU SUCK!!!

What he is saying is that had the Palestinians not been so fucked up to people just because they were Jewish and for pure profit in arms trading, the Jews would have to give in and be non-violent. As it stands, the propgators of hating your neighbors are truly Palestinians like Yassin who would kill a mother of two as long as she kills Jews.

"the Jewish population are simply better at fighting"

on a personal note - anywhere the troll says "Jewish" from my perspective that would be strictly ZIONIST as I actually like many Jewish people - we simply don't like rightwingers - of any stripe. The zionists constantly hide under the skirts of Jews - otherwise thier agenda would be completely unsupported and we would realize just how few in number they really are.

The *illusion* they try to maintain that they represent more than a few percent of even the population of israel - that they have popular support, or that they represent Jewish people in general is just that - an illusion.



The first objection I'll raise is that you provided absolutely no links/data to back up your claims, which (even though I actually consider this a waste of time since it's just another "guess who I am today" troll handle AND the article is in fact troll bait) I'll go over point-by-point



> only been looking at pictures from the last three years



WRONG - I have detailed data *and photographs* from past massacres such as

inside a masacre- Jenin camp report w/pics : Palestine Indymedia

http://jerusalem.indymedia.org/news/2002/04/13987.php



> the billions Israel poured in



the billions of OUR TAX DOLLARS - *WE* poured in





> you don't know how many people really died here in the U.S. for civil rights.



Then explain it to us, put things in perspective and have links/facts/data this time





> Jews bought the land

I heard all about it - this is simply a lie used as justification for occupation



> Jews do not discriminate within Israel



Another lie - what about *marrage* with persons of Arab decent





> the Jewish population / are simply better at fighting.



And billions of our tax dollars buying military hardware, and supporting israel's "economy" for things like national health care (something we ourselves don't have !) has nothing to do with it ?





> many of the dead on your list of casualties who fall under the designation of Palestinian were actually killed by suicide bombers themselves.



Where's the data to prove this ?





> Israel / fight like men, face to face with the enemy



So firing missiles in residental areas from jets is "face to face" ?, And shells from the inside of tanks ? Bullets from watchtowers ?

It's all this occupation and murder that gets the populace angry and desperate enough to resort to bombs or whatever else they can come up with, so you then ignore all the overwhelming military force, the aid, the propaganda and lack of coverage, the lies that lead to more US aid which bankrolls all this..

Then you blame the victims in isolation of the above (demonize) like our own government blamed the Indians...

Like the british government did with the early settlers here -

Different time and place but the same game, and you're the british mole who wants to always be on the winning team...

What massacre? Even the Palestinians admit it wasn't one.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33562

Palestinians admit the battle for the Jenin refugee camp that was touted as a massacre of thousands of innocent civilians was actually a "military to military battle" between Israeli forces and Palestinian "armed terrorists," in which most of the 52 casualties were fighters.

[...]

According to the Post, researchers examined a wide variety of recent Palestinian newspapers, books and websites, and found that terror groups Fatah, Islamic Jihad and Hamas armed themselves with automatic weapons, grenades, anti-tank missiles and explosives in preparation for confrontation with IDF troops during Israel's eight-day offensive against terror in April 2002.

The study illustrates the three terror groups set up a joint military operations room, created a bomb-making facility in Jenin which produced over two tons of explosives and turned the refugee camp into a "reinforced fortress" where nearly 200 Palestinian terrorists gathered for battle.

"The study directly contradicts the baseless charges made by PA leaders including Saeb Erekat, that Israel had massacred 500 Palestinians in Jenin," former United Nations ambassador and JCPA director Dore Gold told the Post. "That blatant lie made its way from the screens of CNN to the U.N. Security Council."

WorldNetDaily reported in the aftermath of the incident that testimonies in Arab media from Palestinian commanders supported Israel's contention that its soldiers fought fierce battles at the Jenin refugee camp with gunmen who used booby traps and civilians, including children, to engage in "guerrilla warfare," according to translations by the Middle East Media Research Institute in Washington, D.C.

"The truth is that the fighting is being conducted from neighborhood to neighborhood, like guerrilla warfare," Sheikh Jamal Abu Al-Hija, the commander of the Hamas Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam Brigades in the Jenin refugee camp, told the Qatari television channel Al-Jazeera during the fighting.

"Believe me, there are children stationed in the houses with explosive belts at their sides," said Abu Jandal, commander of the terrorist group Islamic Jihad at the Jenin camp, in an interview during the battle with Al-Jazeera. "Today, one of the children came to me with his school bag. I asked him what he wanted, and he replied, 'Instead of books, I want an explosive device, in order to attack ? .'"

Abu Jandal said, "I, the commander of the battle of the Jenin camp, have chosen for myself the name 'The Martyr Abu Jandal,' because all the fighters around me are martyrs."

WorldNetDaily cited the Arabic-language daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat as reporting that in Jenin a Palestinian woman named Ilham 'Ali Dasouqi had blown herself up among Israeli soldiers, killing two and wounding six. Also, the Egyptian government-sponsored Al-Ahram Weekly published an interview with "Omar," a young, one-armed Islamic Jihad bomb maker who told how the Palestinians booby-trapped Jenin and included women and children in the battles:

"We had more than 50 houses booby-trapped around the camp. We chose old and empty buildings and the houses of men who were wanted by Israel because we knew the soldiers would search for them," Al-Ahram quoted Omar as saying. "We cut off lengths of main water pipes and packed them with explosives and nails. Then we placed them about four meters apart throughout the houses ? in cupboards, under sinks, in sofas."

According to Omar, everyone in the camp, including the children, knew where the explosives were located so that there was no danger of civilians being injured.

The Post reports the JCPA study found similar testimony in recent publications that confirmed civilians were intentionally used as human shields and that both women and children were deployed by Fatah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad to divert IDF troops into ambushes and booby-trapped areas.

A U.N. fact-finding commission which looked into the massacre claims last year condemned Palestinian "militants" for operating inside civilian refugee camps.



*********************

Sorry, Hex. No matter how hard you wish there was a "massacre", there simply wasn't.

nonanarchist

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This is a propaganda front - I have dirt on them.

And once more the pictures tell a far different story - children hacked to pieces by israeli forces...

More typical bullshit and lires from hex, under a few different handles no less.

First of all, the pic of the "hacked" victim could be anyone in the arab world. There's no telling who it is. It could very easily be a "palestinian" victim of Hamas.

They've been known to kill plenty of "palestinians" who they think might be disloyal to their cause. (of course these murdered "palestinians" get numbered along with all the rest in coming up with the number of deaths attributable to Isarel.

The fact remains that if there is going to be peace, BOTH sides need to change. Isreal MUST get rid of the settlements and all miltary incursions. To make this possible, the "palestinians" MUST destroy the savages of Hamas, Al Aqsa, Islamic Brotherhood and any other subhuman atrocity group.

This is a TWO -SIDED problem.

Of course hex and all his aliases will never even hint at that.

Hex refers to Israeli's as "fascists" and "Babykillers".

If there is going to be peace it'll have to come in spite of the racist monsters like Hex.

"That dares to disagree with my pronouncements?! Heresy! Propaganda! Unclean!"

Face it...you will refuse to accept ANYTHING written by an Israeli...unless it holds Israel responsible for all the atrocities in the Middle East. Sadly, there are misguided people who will grant your wish.

Say, you forgot to prove that the child was killed by the IDF. I know it's a big, clear picture, but that really doesn't prove anything, ya know.

Just the same way you forgot to prove the Jenin incident was a "massacre".

nonanarchist

nonanarchist

Since I'm in solidarity with Jews against Zionism maybe the troll can explain how the smear "racist monster" applies ?



> Hex refers to Israeli's as "fascists" and "Babykillers



Where's the beef ? This is at least the 4'th time I've challenged you to quote me or otherwise prove this claim

spin-cycle



> you forgot to prove that the child was killed by the IDF.

> you forgot to prove the Jenin incident was a "massacre



This photograph is part of a set that were publicly available on an IMC until *israel shut it down*, the writing on the card varifies the date. (these are all morgue pictutes taken to document the massacre - this is the one that made sharon a war criminal, the court that convicted him found these photographs convincing enough...)

That propaganda front you posted propaganda from above is also known - they specialize in scouring the middle east media for *anything negative they can find* to use against Muslims.

And where do they get thier funding ? Mossad - where else ?

These photographs helped convict sharon !

"Where's the beef ? This is at least the 4'th time I've challenged you to quote me or otherwise prove this claim"

And this is the fifth time I've reminded you that I've already posted the link.

A link which you yourself have said is "as good as I can get".

ROFL.

Hex you're desperate and I'm getting bored.

It's been fun humiliating you but you have to try harder.

Did you make any Jewish kids cry today Hex?

You keep saying the photos prove stuff.

And I'm supposed to believe you because...?

When are you going to learn that just because you say it, don't make it so?

Links, boy! Links! NOW! Hop to it!

Then I will decide if the information is accurate.

Not you. You see, that's how it works. I get to decide what information convinces me. You pouting and stamping your foot just doesn't cut it.

"Israel shut it down"

Hee hee! Pesky Zionists, huh?

Now explain this...there is plenty of rabid Jew-hate on IMCs all over the world. If Israel had the power to remove photos it didn't like, it would also have the power to remove all the offensive Jew-hate spew.

Wouldn't it? Yet it's still there. Hmmm. What's wrong with this picture?

How many times you gonna get shot out of the saddle before you stop getting back up on your tired ol' horse?

nonanarchist

The first two points Anarchist made have some merit, but the third, that Israel is fascist, is not true. It's more like a white supremacist semi-democracy. Fortunately, it participated in the Western world, where people strive to be democratic. Thus, some degree of nonviolent resistance would work.

It would hinge on what Israel does with the gambit. If they continue to maintain the crazy kill ratios, it'll only increase the resolve of the Palestinians to fight harder. If Israel de-escalates, there's some hope of resolution.

As for who is more "evil" in this situation - it's a stalemate. Israel, however, has the upper hand in firepower, US support, and basically could commit genocide against the Palestinians if they really wanted. As it is, they are already ghettoizing them and psychologically preparing themselves to commit genocide.

They could argue that the Palestinians would be just as brutal if the tables were turned. Of course, the sides are not switched, so, that argument holds no weight, logically... but people still think it's valid... especially if that person is an Israeli or an American, who feels threatened by "the rabble" and must demonize them.

The Palestinians should consider nonviolent resistance.

"They could argue that the Palestinians would be just as brutal if the tables were turned. Of course, the sides are not switched, so, that argument holds no weight, logically... but people still think it's valid... especially if that person is an Israeli or an American, who feels threatened by "the rabble" and must demonize them."

Have you read the Hamas charter? Heard the words of Arafat? Read the words of the imams who preach every Friday in the occupied territories?

They demonize themselves. There is no doubt that they would kill every last Jew in Israel given the chance.

BTW, whenever Israel has pulled back the settlements and decreased military retaliation, suicide bombings have GONE UP.

nonanarchist