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An Open Letter from the Arab-American and Muslim Community to the US Anti-War Movement

by hammerhard mediaworks Tuesday, Jan. 13, 2004 at 4:30 PM

On March 20, 2004, the world will mobilize against war and colonial occupations. The significance of this historic day is evident to all and requires no further elaboration. The political clarity and character of this mobilization in the US, however, remains illusive.

Dear peace and justice organizations and activists,

On March 20, 2004, the world will mobilize against war and colonial occupations. The significance of this historic day is evident to all and requires no further elaboration. The political clarity and character of this mobilization in the US, however, remains illusive.

This is where our community stands:

In confronting war, the people of Palestine and Iraq have paid dearly. They stand against the imperial project shoulder to shoulder with communities of color and the working class in the United States, along with great many subjugated peoples around the globe - from Afghanistan to Colombia, and from the Philippines to Vieques, and on. Without a doubt, the Palestinian and Iraqi people are both welded together in an inextricable unity at the forefront of the global anti-war movement, transforming themselves as a whole as its embodiment and paying in its defense with the dearest of all - their very existence. Yet, despite every home destroyed, child murdered, acre confiscated and tree uprooted, town colonized and ethnically cleansed, wall built, refugee remaining nation-less, and incremental robbery of their self-determination, they remain the very antithetical formulation of empire and with a vision of justice for all.

In the United States, we, Arab-Americans and Muslims have been maliciously targeted, stripped of our rights, and positioned outside the constitutional framework of this country. A new COINTELPRO has been unleashed against our homes and living rooms, as our fathers, mothers, sons, and daughters are plucked away and thrown into unknown prison cells. Thus, in a continuum of history, we stand with African Americans, Japanese Americans, Latinos, Native Americans, and all others in the painful struggle for justice. From them all, we take our cue, for they are our predecessors and our partners in this long march.

Accordingly, we the undersigned hereby declare that:

1. We do not accept delinking the struggle of the Palestinian people from the anti-war movement, and regard the struggle in Palestine, as it is viewed worldwide, to be central to any peace and justice mobilization.

2. We insist that the Palestinian right to return and to self-determination are the key anchors of the Palestinian struggle, and that organizations that attempt to diminish, sidetrack, or abrogate these rights, regardless of any other position they may take on Palestine, are acting contrary to the will and aspiration of the Palestinian people.

3. We view all attempts to relegate our collective presence to the margin and to tokenize our participation in the movement to be racist in character. In its attempt to silence the Arab and Muslim voices for decades, particularly that of the Palestinian people, the movement in the US has stood alone in the global movement for justice. We see ourselves as full partners in leading the movement as signified in the heavy price we continue to pay along the way, and reject any attempt to objectify our presence.

4. We regard the positions that the "colonial occupation of Iraq must be internationalized", or that ending the occupation must be conducted over a period of time until the "Iraqis are able to secure their democracy", as implicitly colonial and racist. These are positions that are rooted in the construct of "manifest destiny" and the "white man's burden" to "civilize".

5. We call on our people everywhere to hold all organizations accountable to the positions they take, especially those that depict racist attitudes towards us, implicitly or otherwise, particularly those that tokenize and objectify our struggle. Any organization or movement that finds it acceptable to minimize or disregard for political expediency the struggle of any people should not be allowed to function within the global justice movement. Justice is neither selective, nor partial or conditional.

We are firm on these principles for the March 20th mobilization and beyond as we call on all communities and organizations to mobilize and stand in force under the following unifying five slogans:

1. End all colonial occupations from Iraq to Palestine to everywhere!

2. Bring the troops home NOW!

3. No to internationalizing colonial occupations!

4. Stop the attacks on civil liberties!

5. Money for jobs, education, and healthcare not for war!

As we salute and stand empowered with sectors of the movement that have taken a principled stand on justice, we seek to participate in the empowerment of all as we call for a genuine global united front against war.

All out on March 20, 2004!

(List in alphabetical order. To be included, please write to: rashmawi (at) sbcglobal.net)


1. Al-Awda, the Palestine Right to Return Coalition

2. Al-Bireh Palestine Society, California Chapter

3. Al-Qalam Institute

4. American Muslims for Jerusalem (AMJ)

5. American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, Greater Sacramento Area Chapter

6. American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, New Jersey Chapter

7. American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, Seattle Chapter

8. American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, Los Angeles/Orange County Chapter

9. American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, San Francisco Bay Area Chapter

10. Arab Center of Washington - Seattle

11. Arab Muslim American Federation

12. Arab-American Community Center, Chicago

13. Arab-American Forum, New Hampshire

14. Arab-American Press Guild

15. San Francisco Bay Area Palestine Coalition

16. Canada-Palestine Association

17. Canada-Palestine Friendship Society

18. Canadian Arab Federation

19. Committee for Democratic Palestine - Canada

20. Committee for Justice - USA

21. Deir Yassin Society of New York

22. Free Palestine Alliance - USA (FPA)

23. Friends of Ghassan Kanafani, Toronto Chapter

24. Kana'an Review

25. Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation (MAS Freedom Foundation)

26. Muslim Students Association of the U.S. and Canada (MSA-National)

27. Muslim Students Association, California State University, Sacramento

28. Muslim Students Association, University of California, Davis

29. National Council of Arab Americans (NCAA)

30. Palestine Children's Welfare Fund

31. Palestine House Educational and Cultural Center, Canada

32. Palestine Right of Return Congress - USA

33. Palestine Solidarity Committee - Los Angeles

34. Palestine Solidarity Committee - Seattle

35. Palestine Solidarity Group - Chicago

36. Palestinian American Women's Association (PAWA)

37. Sacred Roots

38. Students for Justice in Palestine, California State University, Sacramento

39. Students for Justice in Palestine, University of California, Davis

40. The Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP)

41. The United Muslim Association of High Schools Club
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Translation

by ;lkjkjh Tuesday, Jan. 13, 2004 at 5:14 PM

"We are good dhimmis, we know our place, and please tell the jihadis not to kill us."

nonanarchist


© 2000-2003 Los Angeles Independent Media Center. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not necessarily endorsed by the Los Angeles Independent Media Center.

*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is 3d1cb767fe4087bf4011b1780dce0407. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.
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fresca

by fresca Tuesday, Jan. 13, 2004 at 5:43 PM

How can I put this?

FUCK OFF!

Beyond the fact that arabs and muslims are treated with more dignity and fairness here than in there own festering shithole countries and surely better then they themselves treat non-muslims in those same stoneage caves, the truth is that ALL of the problems of the middle east stem from fanatical followers of their religion and they themselves are the sole culprits in the many atrocities committed in that area.

Fuck "palestine" and fuck Islamists.
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Fresca, that's it?

by Mom Tuesday, Jan. 13, 2004 at 8:39 PM

That's as articulate as you get Fresca? A simple 'Fuck You"? But then again why expect more from a simple minded racist cracker and overall scum sucking fuckwad who apparently couldn't pour piss out an army boot without the instructions being written on the heel. Next time you spam, try and learn to spell.

This is why first cousins shouldn't mate.
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fresca

by fresca Tuesday, Jan. 13, 2004 at 8:47 PM

First of all, the "fuck you" was merely an intro into my obvious and unrefutable assesment of the arab/islamist problem which the civilized world finds itself faced with.

Secondly, there are no spelling mistakes. That you think there are would tend to betray a certain weakness in that area yourself.

Face it. I'm smarter and better than you are. It follows that you'd be a better person to merely keep quiet and let me do the thinking.

There now....feel better?
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To : Fresca

by Sergio Leone Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2004 at 4:39 AM

pfffff.... Your monstruosity is not even shocking anymore

"Fuck" was the intro, "off" the outro and this "new" comment of yours only reminds us that the only thing comin out of you has always been:

Grrrroarrr.... grrrrrrr-arf! arf-arf-grrrrrrrrrOArrrr!!
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"I'm smarter and better than you are."

by Hex anon w/ encryption Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2004 at 8:32 AM

"I'm smarter an...
frescas_subhumans.jpg, image/jpeg, 718x520

the troll says.


Over the past several months I couldn't help but notice you show the symptoms of an inferiority complex. Subjects like intelligence, knowledge and abilities seem to get you all riled up. Then when it comes down to brass tacks you utter remarks as above...

There are persons who really could make such claims (well not "better" but smarter at least) but you are not one of them. Anyone who's been here for awhile can clearly see this. And yet with comments as above - on the level of schoolyard chatter - you include such tripe.

Then again I didn't see *any* factually based response to why you would be so hostile towards the simple idea of equality...

A person reveals more by what they DON'T say than by what they do. You can also tell much about a person by what they say about other people. Calling other people "sub-human" and "animals" screams volumes about what your inner state of being is.

And this contines after dozens of pictures have been posted *specifically* to refute these attitiudes showing yes - these people are indeed human. In some ways even more so than we are, as we sit comfortably in our lifestyles risking nothing these "sub-humans" are fighting for thier very survival like the forefathers of this country did.


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"like the forefathers of this country did."

by Minuteman Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2004 at 9:07 AM

Yeah, my forefathers sent their explosives laden children into the local taverns to blow up themselves and as many redcoats, women, and children as possible...




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fresca

by fresca Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2004 at 9:28 AM

"And this contines after dozens of pictures have been posted *specifically* to refute these attitiudes showing yes - these people are indeed human. In some ways even more so than we are, as we sit comfortably in our lifestyles risking nothing these "sub-humans" are fighting for thier very survival like the forefathers of this country did. "

That the average "palestinian" is human has never been questioned (aqs any of my posts will attest too). That "palestinian" and islamist terrorists are subhuman mureders is simply irrefutable (as my many posts of images of their atrocities will affirm).

Lionize these murderers if you must. It's exactly that type of hateful bandwagonesque racism which will always lead to more dead "palestinian" children as these savages murder and hide behind them.

You and your ilk have done well to keep hate, racism and terror alive.

Hats off to ya'.

And by the way, I've seen no evidence from you proving any innate equality that these murderers share with the rest of the civilized world.

*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is a45f6859fce853d1f3f6b4609fd80c0a. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.
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On the contrary, fresca.

by ';lkjkjh Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2004 at 3:02 PM

"And by the way, I've seen no evidence from you proving any innate equality that these murderers share with the rest of the civilized world."

Let me explain.

The Palestinian splodeydopes, the darlings of the Left, want only to kill Jews.

The reason the Left is so enamored of these human munitions is they want Jews dead, too. There is NO other interpretation.

Evidence of this is the deafening silence from the Left regarding the numerous human rights violations perpetrated by the Arab/Muslim world. Violations, I might add, which are far, far more serious than any spurious "genocide/apartheid" claims levied against Israel. As far as the Left is concerned, this oppression doesn't exist. When you call them on it, if you get any reaction at all, it's invariably, "Yes, but ISRAEL [insert ridiculously overblown claim here]!"

So, you see, the splodeydopes share a measure of humanity with the oh-so-compassionate, tolerant, and eminently civilized Left.

They both want dead Jews.

nonanarchist

CONFIDENTIAL TO HEX: Was six million enough?

*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is 3d1cb767fe4087bf4011b1780dce0407. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.
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insert ridiculously overblown claim here

by Hex anon w/ encryption Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2004 at 7:49 PM

insert ridiculously ...
israeli_tank.jpg, image/jpeg, 800x567

Since the beginning of the Palestinian uprising on 29 September 2000 the Israeli army has killed more than 2,200 Palestinians, including 400 children."

"While claiming that it seeks to avoid harming the Palestinian population the Israeli army tanks and aircraft continue to shell densely populated Palestinian refugee camps and residential areas, knowing that such reckless fire will cause heavy civilian casualties."

Q.) how many children have been killed by suicide bombers ? (400 ? - anywhere near 400 ?)

Q.) where's the PALESTINIAN tanks, bulldozers, choppers, machine guns firing missiles, shells, and bullets in ISRAEL ?

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You're not paying attention, Hex.

by ;lkjkjh Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 3:56 AM

But that's SOP, isn't it?

Splodeydopes. Human munitions. Dumb bombs.

These are the Palestinian weapons of choice. Cheap, easy to deploy, easy to program...just raise them in a culture that reveres human sacrifice in the name of killing Jews. Tell 'em they get 72 virgins in the afterlife for "martyring" themselves. Name streets after successful splodeydopes.

Arafat's a freakin' billionaire. Been siphoning off international aid money for decades. He could afford modern weaponry, yet he doesn't buy any...just kilo after kilo of C4 and Semtex.

Why? For the propaganda effect...which you have so courteously fallen for.

"Us poor little oppressed Palestinians! We're so desperate under the occupation! We have no other choice but to blow ourselves up on buses and in discos!" It's the only legitimate recourse we have! The evil JOOOOS are trying to wipe us all out and steal our land and water! Feel sorry for us, please!"

You're a sucker, Hex. But don't feel too bad; you're not the only one to fall for the perpetual victimhood death cult that is "Palestine".

But you will never acknowledge it. Oh, no...can't have that, can we?

Two questions for you:

1. Whenever Israel has pulled back the settlements and stopped reprisals for terrorist action, suicide bombings have gone up or down?

2. Do you think six million was enough?

Let me hlp you out:

1. Terrorist attacks have GONE UP whenever Israel make peaceful overtures.

2. No, you don't think six million was enough, because you blindly support those who have stated publicly over and over they want to kill every last Jew.

Face it, Hex...you will NEVER convince me Palestinians are innocent victims in this issue.

Because they keep demonstrating they are not.

And yet useful idiots like you will believe they are, no matter what they say and do.

You deluded fool.

nonanarchist

*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.
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Hey NonAnarchist....

by silent witness Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 5:44 AM

Just thought I'd let you know that Hex is a member of KOBE:

http://www.kobehq.com/members.asp

It's pretty much a waste of time arguing with him.

The comment was rejected because it was too short.The comment was rejected because it was too short.The comment was rejected because it was too short.The comment was rejected because it was too short.
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the troll cheetos warrior spin-cycle game

by Hex anon w/ encryption Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 8:44 AM

the troll cheetos wa...
how_israeli_army_bombs_kill_the_children.jpg, image/jpeg, 819x564

Well where to begin ? I'll address the funnyest one first-

"Hex is a member of KOBE"

Nothing like a good laugh in the morning. I won't even go to the kobe website as I consider it hostile (a security risk) and strongly recommend other IMC patrons don't either. A typical browser has several security holes that visiting a hostile website can take advantage of including stealing your personal information and writing to your hard drive (virii, trojans, worms)

IMC knows me by IP now - an IP which goes to a private ISP pool which *never changes*. (so hex anon doesn't apply anymore - I only bounce off this one (1) IP via a proxy I set up myself which keeps no logs)

I re-installed windows on it and we had to reset the hub (which holds the IP as long as it has power) so the IP changes but the pool it's in doesn't as shown by whois/reverse DNS. I have 2 broadband connections now, the second is like the bounce but hubless (the gateway holds the IP as a dial-up session, PPPoE)

I have nearly 3.mbps down and 384.kbps up here at the gateway, the bounce has about 1.5 mbps down and 256.kbps up.

Needless to say I've been quite busy lately trying to keep up with all the stuff we're downloading...

We are set to offer bandwidth for streaming for IMC radio events. I used to get by on dial-up and couldn't offer anything worthwile, now it's a different story. IMC people involved with streaming know about me and know about the station...

I've been involved with streaming/broadcasting for IMC since 2000



Any claim about kobe being in any way connected to me will not wash, it's stupid to even try...




> Arafat's a freakin' billionaire.

RHETORICAL QUESTIONS TO ASK OPPONENTS OF ISRAEL

"How can Yassir Arafat, whom Forbes Magazine says is worth more than three hundred million dollars, claim to be a leader who understands and represents an impoverished people when he has become rich at their expense?"

from;

http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/IMG/pdf/wexner-communication.pdf

The Luntz Research Companies & The Israel Project - April 2003 1 WEXNER ANALYSIS:

ISRAELI COMMUNICATION PRIORITIES 2003



> The evil JOOOOS are trying to wipe us all out and steal our land and water!


Zionists hiding under the skirts of "joooos" again I see.


PALESTINIAN SOUND-BITES THAT WORK

10) Of course rhetorical questions work, don't they? Ask a question to which there is only one answer is hard to lose. It is essential that your communication be laced with rhetorical questions, which is how Jews talk anyway.

http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/IMG/pdf/wexner-communication.pdf


> Let me hlp you out


Ask rhetorical questions implying the addressee agrees then *answer your own questions for him* to complete a rhetorical statement. Plus bait on the question of was it really 6. million - another trap and *distraction* to waste time.


I post actual statistics (2,200 adults, 400 children murdered by the israeli army since 2000) and all we get back are rhetorical games and smears.

The reason why I have hundreds of pictures of Palestinian children killed is because there ARE hundreds of Palestinian children killed *by the israeli army*

No such claim can be made for israeli children...

Especially by military hardware, tanks, bulldozers, choppers, jets, firing bombs, missiles, shells and bullets into civilian areas without concern about who gets killed.

The reason why you can never post hundreds of pictures of israeli children murdered is because *THEY DON'T EXIST*. So insted we get rhetoric, smearing and games.

Hence the TROLL warning for "fresca" hmmmmmm now you're officially a troll too...

I guess IMC staff isn't buying your tripe either.

And these repeated lies don't help, after all the pictures and statistics, all you do is simply repeat the same old lies over & over no matter what proof is posted.

A shill in the purest sense of the word..

A cheetos warrior spin cycle game

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Sexy Hexy

by . Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 8:59 AM

Don't matter.

October 15, 2003 passed and you didn't meet the deadline.

That's makes you automatically: Discredited.

Like you weren't the day you logged on. HA!

Besides, it's IMC. These things are falling to pieces all over the globe. Another SF phenom coming your way.

I do what I want to do. Your lies are powerless. Good EV though.
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facts are lies - naturally !

by Hex anon w/ encryption Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 10:10 AM

facts are lies - nat...
troll_opinions.gif, image/png, 382x211

October 15, 2003 - a date you pulled out of your ass.

But the IRS has a date with you and time is running out.

Then again we all just hang on your every post knowing we'll see facts and data along with pictures and transcripts/recordings of real events that actually took place and not mere opinion and wishful thinking like so much whistling in the dark to keep the scary truth monster away.


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fresca

by fresca Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 10:23 AM

"But the IRS has a date with you and time is running out. "

More crazy talkin' delusions of grandeur.

Hex...you really are fucked up.

Someone should do a documentary on you.

Like one of R.Crumb's brothers,

text/plain text/html
Do not select "html format" unless you include

and/or
tags!!

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fresca

by fresca Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 10:36 AM

"Hence the TROLL warning for "fresca" hmmmmmm now you're officially a troll too...

I guess IMC staff isn't buying your tripe either.
"

In no uncertain terms, this "troll warning" in the shape of a completely superflous and ineffectual IP hash is reserved ONLY for those that continue to make things very uncomfortable for those racists, traitors, fools and losers like yourself and the adolescent "kollective" of LA IMC.

That every "palestinian" death is the direct result of "palestinian" terrorism and the cowardly tactics they employ in their atrocities and subsequent retreats is not even in question.

That you and your ilk don't give a rat's ass about the welfare of TRULY oppressed arabs in the middle East if their aren't Jews involved is testament to your innate racism.

All the pictures of "palestinian" victims of "palestinian" terror won't change that.

There are maybe 3 or 4 asses like yourself around here that form the anti Jew choir you're preaching to, but the rest of us and the world in general look at you and laugh as we would towards any simple minded and ill-informed hate group.

Face it, you're standing alongside such groups as the KKK and the aryan nation.

All pathetic figures of fun.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the average peaceful "palestinian" might thank you to stop defending the thugs of Hamas who do everything in their power to derail any and all peace attempts?
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now the troll becomes upset

by Hex anon w/ encryption Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 10:58 AM

now the troll become...
frescas_logic.jpg, image/jpeg, 500x413

> every "palestinian" death is the direct result of "palestinian" terrorism

> you're standing alongside such groups as the KKK



RE: my IRS comment

> you really are fucked up

Q.) if compNLA has no connection to you why would you get upset about me mentioning the audit or even have anything to say about it at all ?


RE: "fresca's" official troll status

Q.) if this doesn't matter why are you using proxies to elude the IP-based warning under your posts ?

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Hexy

by . Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 11:00 AM

>facts are lies - naturally !

No. Facts are facts. Lies are lies. You're a liar. Your whole life is a lie. Your whole political beliefs are built upon lies. But , your lies make you "feel" good, so I'll leave you and your lies to comfort one another.


>October 15, 2003 - a date you pulled out of your ass.

A date you couldn't meet.

>But the IRS has a date with you and time is running out.

That's how fucking stupid you are. I'm not a Kobe. I never even heard of them until that jackass 'faker' came around spamming the place w/ his Kobe crap.

You're harmless, but you're pretty good EV.

Carry on!
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fresca

by fresca Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 11:19 AM

"RE: "fresca's" official troll status

Q.) if this doesn't matter why are you using proxies to elude the IP-based warning under your posts ?
"

Hey Hex...I thought you were some sorta comp whiz kid.

And you've never heard of a dynamic IP. Almost everyones IP changes every time they log on unless they have a static broadband account (which is hard to come by in the overpopulated cyber world of LA).

I'd never waste a minute fooling around with proxies and all that nonsense. Why should I? I'm not the lying racist.

You're the one always bragging about you're anonymity and encryption nonsense. You're the one hiding.
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fresca

by fresca Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 11:25 AM

"Q.) if compNLA has no connection to you why would you get upset about me mentioning the audit or even have anything to say about it at all ? "

Why not? I don't even know what the hell all this Compla stuff is beyond your constant blathering and fantasies. I'm merely delighted to see you actually voice your delusions.

No one and I mean No one believes for a second that you could possibly find the identity of anyone posting here much less have the connections to sic the IRS on someone.

When people read your posts (even those that agree with your politics [which boil down to hating Jews]) they know you're some typical lonely middleaged trekie loser who wears a tinfoil hat and lives to make threats on message boards.

So, when I see you post a gem like the audit threat I can't resist.
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Facts are facts

by Hex anon w/ encryption Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 11:33 AM

Facts are facts...
israeli_military_bombs.jpg, image/jpeg, 800x553

FACT -

Since the beginning of the Palestinian uprising on 29 September 2000 the Israeli army has killed more than 2,200 Palestinians, including 400 children."

"While claiming that it seeks to avoid harming the Palestinian population the Israeli army tanks and aircraft continue to shell densely populated Palestinian refugee camps and residential areas, knowing that such reckless fire will cause heavy civilian casualties."

(Source: Amnesty International)
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Hex

by Facts Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 11:41 AM

Hi. We've never met. By the looks of things, we never will. You're just not ready for me. Nor will you ever be. Please make an attempt to grow up one day.

Sincerely,

Facts
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I can help the Palestinians

by helper Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 11:45 AM

Tell them to trot their little scrawney asses to the East side of the Jordan River where they belong. Are they bright enough to do something that simple? Probably not. We're not talking about a very intelligent people here.
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fresca

by fresca Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 3:27 PM

"Since the beginning of the Palestinian uprising on 29 September 2000 the Israeli army has killed more than 2,200 Palestinians, including 400 children." "

And EVERY SINGLE DEATH is the direct responsibilty of the very same terrorist groups that these people continue to support and glorify.

No "palestinian" terrorism.
No "palestinian" deaths.
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Hex's numbers...

by l;kjlkhkjh Thursday, Jan. 15, 2004 at 7:01 PM

...remember, are from the same source that brought us the "5,000 dead in Jenin" lies.

Turned out to be 54 dead combatants. Say, Hex, how long did you really believe it was 5,000 killed? Or do you still believe it?

I've seen breakdowns of the Palestinian casualties. Funny thing about them...there children as old as 24 years.

They count Palestinians killed by other Palestinians.

They also count the suicide bombers themselves...how stupid is that? And how gullible do you have to be to believe it?

Huh, Hex? How gullible are you?

So, Hex, I believe your numbers about as much as I believe you.

Not at all.

nonanarchist

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Woefully Propagandistic & Unilateral

by Sergeant Woods Monday, Jan. 23, 2006 at 10:15 AM

To begin with, the protrayal of Palestinians as victims of anything other than other Palestinians is egrigious. Israelis have learned, unfortunately, that you cannot discourage someone from commiting a terrorist attack by threatening that person's life; it is a moot asset. You can discourage them, however, by making it evident that their family will bear the brunt of the residual responsibility after the attack. Wile this is unfortunate, it is effective. As to why you don't see dead Israeli children, it is because they mourn and respect the dead. The Palestinians, on the other hand, use their dead as tools of political manipulation and propaganda. However, dead children do not necessarily constitute an act of indescretion. Do you want to know why Palestinan children die? http://www.rotter.net/israel/ Do you also not believe that Israel has the capacity to erradicate every Palestinian from the face of Israel? Yet they restrain themselves from doing so, whereas the Palestinians utilize every available opportunity to kill every Israeli possible... And it is not as if there is a shortage muslim nations near enough to walk to. There is an Organization of Islamic Countries. There is no Oraganization of Jewish Countries. Who is the real antagonist element here?
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interested

by viz Monday, Jan. 23, 2006 at 11:05 AM

This is a load of contradictory justification for what looks like another propaganda front for Israel. I have a few comments about this following unreferenced speculation.
'To begin with, the protrayal of Palestinians as victims of anything other than other Palestinians is egrigious [1]. Israelis have learned, unfortunately, that you cannot discourage someone from commiting a terrorist attack by threatening that person's life[2]; it is a moot asset[3]. You can discourage them[4], however, by making it evident that their family will bear the brunt of the residual responsibility [5] after the attack.'
1 That's egregious. And a blatant lie. The murder count is heavily weighted on the Israeli side of the scale of non combatants. This is pure Goebbels The bigger the lie the louder it is shouted. Give up, it's over.
Your side is naked with its terror sticking out.The figleaf of victimhood is faint against the brutality of the Israeli state, itself in upheaval.
2 Or by outright murder which is deplorable on both sides. The issue could be solved by justice starting with reparations and resettlement by displaced Palestinian refugees purged from their homes and lives during and after the Zionist settler colonies began their rampage with a deal from Eichmann.
3 this is a moot? asset? What exactly do you mean? To who is it a " moot asset"? Again, you show indifference to injustice. I'm beginning to understand the standard range of slogans.
4 Isn't that what the IDF the Mossad and the armed settlers are all about? Tell me, are the Palestinians allowed arms for self defense as the Israeli settlers are? And the ghetto grate wall of Israel is pure 3rd Reich. Replete with machine gun watch towers pointing in. Hide that. Bring in a dumptruck of slogans. You give your selves away with your methods.
5 and this bit of euphemism for what? Seizure assassination or a warhead? This is insanity. At least if you think it is a reasonable approach. It will end in ruin for many, as history shows. For many of all of us.
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