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Intentionally Firing Into the Palestinian Crowds of People

by Ibrahim Barzak Friday, Oct. 24, 2003 at 12:32 PM

WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE between the TERRORISM of suicide bombers and IDF/IOF firing at Palestinian Civilians ( including children) on purpose? ANSWER: The Uniform and the US Tax Dollars That Fund It

JERUSALEM - A video of an Israeli missile strike in a Gaza refugee camp shows people running in a nearby alley, and the army said Thursday it is investigating whether this could explain the high number of casualties reported by the Palestinians.


Monday's attack in the Nusseirat refugee camp, which left eight people dead and 70 wounded, revived debate in Israel over the policy of targeted killings, prompted in part by Palestinian claims that one missile was fired into a crowd.
A bird's-eye video provided by the military from a drone aircraft shows two missiles hitting a car as it drives along the camp's main street, which from the air appears relatively empty. The missiles strike about one minute apart.



Palestinian security officials and witnesses have said that after the first hit, bystanders rushed to the scene, and that the second missile caused most of the casualties. Some witnesses also reported a third missile strike.
The military has said there were only two missiles and that it did not fire into a crowd. The video shows no crowd near the vehicle during the second missile hit. Military officials have said the order to strike again would not have been given had many bystanders been present.
However, a review of the video shows that after the first missile strike, camp residents began running through an alley toward the main street. People appeared as tiny black dots in the grainy, blurred footage, and there seem to be about two dozen in the alley, although it is difficult to determine the exact number.



There was little traffic on the main road — only one car passed the stricken car between the first and second missile hits — but the camera does not offer a clear view of sidewalks and alleys, because of balconies and overhangs.



On balmy evenings, as on Monday, it is customary for Palestinians to congregate outdoors, pulling up chairs on sidewalks to chat or smoke waterpipes.
"The street was full of people," said Iyad al-Masri, who lives along the main road and whose cousin, Mohammed, was among the dead. "Shops were open, especially restaurants and coffee shops."
Khalil Taha, who owns a nearby shop, said the second explosion was more powerful than the first and that he saw wounded lying on the ground as far as 60 yards away from the targeted vehicle. One of those killed was 11-year-old Mohammed Baroud, who lived just off the main road.



The military took the unusual step of showing the video to reporters Tuesday. On Wednesday, it distributed the video to news organizations, allowing closer inspection.
Maj. Sharon Feingold, an army spokeswoman, acknowledged Thursday that "it is a possibility" that people were in the alley at the time of the second hit.



"We are still studying it and we will draw our conclusions," she said.



"We released the video to refute Palestinian claims that the road was filled with people and rescue workers. We never said that it was not possible that people were hit, people were hurt."
Asked whether the pilot of the attack helicopter would have seen the civilians in the alleys, she said: "It is usually very difficult to find or see them if they are in an alley or under a balcony."



The incident began Monday evening when Israeli troops killed two suspected Palestinian militants trying to sneak across the border fence between Gaza and Israel. The army said the two, later identified as members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a radical PLO faction, had planned to carry out a suicide bombing.
Other members of the cell fled in a car that was tracked by an Israeli helicopter and was then targeted by missiles in Nusseirat. Among those in the car was another would-be suicide bomber, Israeli security officials said.



Palestinian security and hospital officials say all those killed in the camp were civilians. In apparent support of that contention, armed groups did not claim any of the dead as members, as they would normally do. Also, the military did not release "charge sheets" on any of the dead, as is customary, though officials said most of those killed in Nusseirat that day were militants.



The Israeli Haaretz daily reported Thursday that four of the dead, all in their 20s, belonged to PFLP, as well as Yasser Arafat (news - web sites)'s Fatah (news - web sites) faction and the Islamic militant group Hamas. A fifth man in his 20s died Wednesday of his injuries.



The remaining three — the 11-year-old boy, a 29-year-old doctor and a 49-year-old cement factory owner — were clearly bystanders.



Thirteen of the 70 wounded were in serious condition.


****************
Stop Funding ALL Forms of Terrorism

Stop Funding Israel's Blatant Disregard For International And Humanitarian Law.

Contact Elected Officials via http://www.firstgov.org


Secretary of State Colin L. Powell: phone: (202) 647-7098 email www.state.gov/secretary/
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Answer

by fresca Friday, Oct. 24, 2003 at 1:09 PM

"WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE between the TERRORISM of suicide bombers and IDF/IOF firing at Palestinian Civilians ( including children) on purpose?

ANSWER: A) Israel only strikes in retaliation and defense, and B) All "palestinian" terrorists are civilians to begin with. If they don't want there people hurt, don't hide amongst them.
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Better Answer

by mediawatcher Friday, Oct. 24, 2003 at 2:02 PM

The difference is that the IDF is an occupational army operated by the imperialist, zionist state of Israel, which, with the blessing and funding of the U.S., is arbitrarily considered the "defender" of said state.
The "suicide bombers" are people expressing their fatal
frustration with decades of fratricide and genocide committed against the Palestinian people.
Is that simple, but shit for brains above doesn't seem to
get it. Too bad your ideas are more stagnant than fresh.

Long Live Edward Said and the Resistance of the Palestinian People!!






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I have no sympathy for the "Palestinians"

by Barney Friday, Oct. 24, 2003 at 2:35 PM

So long as the vast majority of "Palestinians" give aid to Hamas, Hizbollah I have no sympathy whatsoever for them. The deliberate targeting of Israeli civilians by homicide bombers is a war crime and those who support such acts (people like Mediawatcher) deserve absolutely no sympathy.

The Israelis are showing remarkable restraint in the face of such provocation.
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Imperialist?

by fresca Friday, Oct. 24, 2003 at 3:22 PM

Christ, you get dumber with every post. Where is this Israeli "empire"? A few hundred square miles of land in the middle of the God forsaken Middle East?

Get your head outa your ass.

And how is the IDF in any way "occupting" anything? It's Isarel's land. They recieved it from the barbaric arab neighbor's in 1967, when these losers tried to annihilate Isarel and instead wound up getting their swarthy heds handed to them.

The diputed (at worst) territories are most certainly Israel lands.

What is it about these terroristic "palestinian" bugs that gets all of you so silly?
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fresca the hate monger EXPOSED !

by Hex anon w/ encryption Friday, Oct. 24, 2003 at 3:59 PM

In just one post here's "fresca"s hate;


> palestinian ;

> barbaric
> losers
> swarthy
> bugs



Then in just one thread, here's how many times he assigns hate to other's;


> I never really knew how much the left hates
> This bunch truly hates
> It's easier to hate
> the obsession with hatred of Israel
> those who are raised to hate
> you willingly condemn those you hate
> making heroes out of anyone else who hates them
> It already been established that these Indymedia types hate Jews
> They hate Jews
> hex=jew hater




I never said I hated anybody, although you have tried to assign it on me several times, you on the other had HAVE openly stated "death to Muslims" and so on..




AS YOU CAN SEE

he's both the source of hate AND tries to infect or smear other's with hate.

All hate, both direct and accusatory COMES FROM HIM

He's hates, so he see's the world through the eyes of a hater, and thinks everyone else hates too.

HIS OWN QUOTED WORDS prove it, even a small sampling in one day clearly shows it.

He wishes to add hate to IMC and it's patrons.

He posts hateful things to try to foster hate in us, while at the same time constantly accuses us of being hateful.

Mind you I've never NEVER said I ever hated anyone or anything - EVER !

Yet if you were to believe his hateful lies, you would think I did.

Because he wants you to think that..

Since he clearly hates;

> palestinian ;

> barbaric
> losers
> swarthy
> bugs


he can't stand the idea that others don't hate too, so he goes around ACCUSING people of hate.

Again this wacked sense of balance presents us, he talks about how much he hates all the time - and that's ok..

Yet when he accuses other's of hate, he never has to lift a finger to actually PROVE IT by quoting where hateful words were used or anything - just his word - then you waste your time trying to prove to him you DON'T HATE while he disbelieves *everything* (fresca blind 15)

So no matter what you post - no matter what proof you find, no proof is ever good enough for him. (he would have to stop hating if you proved hate was wrong and HE DOESN'T WANT TO)

So he hates, he accuses others of hate then denies all proof that people don't hate, like he does...

He's here to infect IMC with hate so his accusations might carry some weight.




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ROFL

by fresca Friday, Oct. 24, 2003 at 4:28 PM

First of all, lose the whole "notice this and" schtict, like you're giving a discertation or something.

You and about, uh, no one is listening.

Secondly, if YOU think I'm racist then I must be doing something right.

As far as hating "palestinian" (the quotes signify the unrefutable historical fact that the term has never been used to identify any culture or society) terrorists, and all terrorists for that matter, you bet. And I also hate all those who support and glorify them. Nothing wrong with that. There's nothing inherently wrong with hating. It's a simple human emotion. It all depends on who and why you hate.

You seem to hate Israel simply because they exist, or because they are Jewish....I can't see any other reason to so blindly take the side of that which has used viloence and religios hatred to further their goals like Islamic terrorists and fundamentalists.

I DON'T hate all Muslims or "palestinians", never said I did. But those that kill civilians randomly are SUBHUMAN, SAVAGE, BUGS and should be HATEFULLY killed.

Of course I understand that you'd rather blame Israel for suicide bombers and give the Nobel Prize to Hamas.

But then again, you're a neo-nazi.
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fresca goes back to square one

by yas, opps Friday, Oct. 24, 2003 at 4:43 PM

לבחמה רבעל only the IDF can kill indiscriminantley because they are good.
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and another thing

by fresca Friday, Oct. 24, 2003 at 8:09 PM

"Mind you I've never NEVER said I ever hated anyone or anything - EVER ! "

Then you are a man of absolutely no convictions and no regard for human life. Sleep now forever. You are wasting space.
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he just confirmed he's a troll, here's how to ban him

by Hex anon w/ encryption Friday, Oct. 24, 2003 at 9:05 PM

> Secondly, if YOU think I'm racist then I must be doing something right

It's not a question of what I think - your own words are plain as day, I don't need to assign anything to anyone (a cheap manipulation tactic)

YOU supply the proof yourself directly - in your own words



RE: does "fresca" hate

> you bet. And I also hate all those who support and glorify them. Nothing wrong with that. There's nothing inherently wrong with hating. It's a simple human emotion. It all depends on who and why you hate.


It's simple alright - everything is simple with you, your hallmark is simplicity. You try to pound the world's ir-regularly shaped peg into a "simple" square hole of hate

Then have the gall to say hate is natural, hate is good.

Your brain is so steeped in the piss of your own hate everything you see, every thought and attitude is stained by hate. Since all you know is simple animalistic hate, all you see is hate - everywhere and everyone must be pissed on with this hate because that's the ONLY REALITY YOU CAN DEAL WITH.

A hating useless troll here to infect others with hate to pull us down to your simplistic animal hate level...




> You seem to hate Israel simply because they exist, or because they are Jewish....I can't see any other reason


"I can't see any other reason" (reality)


straight from the hater's mouth. All you know is hate, all you know how to do is hate, so hate is all you SEE.




> to so blindly take the side of that which has used viloence and religios hatred to further their goals like Islamic terrorists and fundamentalists.


So life's complexities such as not all of the group your attempting to assign hate to, actually do in fact hate (it can be reasonably said at least *some* of them hate, which directly feeds into the question of WHY DO THEY HATE but simplistic animal thoughts of hate don't go that far - they stagnate at the lowest possible level of understanding - HATE - and thats all the effort that's expended. Because "hate is good, hate is natural"


> Of course I understand that you'd rather blame Israel for suicide bombers and give the Nobel Prize to Hamas.


So now it's been established that no delving into the complexities of life is required because the highest level of understanding you ever reach is the lowest one - hate.

With this straightjacket of hate around your brain, you now attempt to understand and place blame/fault on ***PEOPLE WHO DON'T HATE***

Naturally since hate is all you can think of, every conclusion you come up with (that you're not even qualified to make being steeped in the piss of your own hate) is that everyone else MUST HATE TOO.

Hence hate is assigned to every person and every situation within the context (the israeli-Palestinian conflict on the microlevel and your culture v Islamic culture on the macrolevel)



All you have and know is hate

Therefore all you see and can imagine other people do/are is hate.



A hate filled troll who can only deal in terms of hate, who spews his hate on here to foster hate, who accuses everyone of hate.

Your here to infect IMC and it's patrons with hate, and drag us down to your simplistic animal level of hate...



> But then again, you're a neo-nazi.

Sure I am, anything will do as long as it implies hate. The concept of disagreeing and support based on emotions less destructive than hate, or better still, ***NO EMOTIONS AT ALL*** completely evades you.

Again all you can think of or imagine is hate so you automaticly think all ANYONE ELSE can think or feel is hate as well..

Drag others down to your level.


Constructive resolution of disputes and solutions to problems begin just above the level of hate. Hate is too destructive and TOO SIMPLSTIC TOO PRIMATIVE TOO INMATURE to solve or help anything

Hate is useless baggage on the train ride of moving through life that only drags you down and doesn't solve or achieve anything positive.

So a person at such a low animal base level IS USELESS at resolving or solving problems and helping people or the world.

All they can do is either drag us down with them, or at best impede, disrupt, distract and otherwise interfere with other people's attempts to rise above hate and actually HELP others.


As you've admitted in your own words all at once in this reply, this is what you do, and the ONLY CONTRIBUTION you can make.

You're a useless harmful hater who can't add anything to this discussion except hate, because hate is all you know and all you can see or imagine.

So IMC patrons have a very clear and compelling reason to totally IGNORE AND REJECT all attempts of this troll to engage us in conversation.

Because all roads lead only to HATE with him.




> fresca goes back to square one


He's come full circle, he just gave away his entire world, and gameplan all in one fell swoop.

He's simply a hate filled troll here to infect us with his hate to drag us down to his level of hate for all occasions and all reasons.

He's simply incapable of adding anything to the debate other than hate.


A big part of the problem with israel and the Palestinians IS hate.
Matter of fact you could easyly say hate is *what keeps the problem from being resolved*, hate IS the problem...


So by contributing nothing but hate his input *guarantees* nothing will ever change, that the problem will never be resolved or even addressed, because people like him ***ARE THE PROBLEM***

YOu now see how completely useless it is to even reply to his hate filled drivel.

Any effort you waste on trying to eliminate his hate - the very source of the problem - is effort and time that could have been used to dialogue with other people who DON'T hate and where theres a chance to change, to grow, to deal with and to resolve this situation.

And this is exactly why he's here. To prevent such constructive discussion by trolling in and injecting HATE into every motive, every thought, every emotion of the people so engaged.

To the extent that we acknowledge him at all, he achieves this goal.

any time or effort spent on his false hate operation (false because there IS no possibility of resolving this as long as it's tainted with hate because hate IS the problem) is time and effort wasted that could have been used to actually deal with and resolve this problem.


His hate is a weapon to sabotage constructive discussion. And his only reason for being here is to use this weapon ON US to shoot down constructive understanding to crash land it into the swamp of hate.

When this fact becomes too obvious and people start ignoring him, he becomes slightly nicer, slightly more amusing to ENTICE you into engaging him, but during the heat of any/all discussions he ALWAYS falls back to his base level of hate, attempting to drag you down with him.

In a typical thread you'll see him assign hate on you dozens of times, desperatly trying to tear down the discussion, trying to frame the subject within a cage of hate because THAT'S WHERE HE IS and that's all he knows.


I have a better way to block him even though he switches proxies.

I can submit lists of *all the proxies I can find* (I maintain such lists anyway) and these lists can simply be pasted into the block file.

Then insted of repeating the process of banning him one IP at a time as he changes them, the effort will fall on him to *find a proxy I don't know about - very rare - and his pool of available proxies will virtually vanish !

Then even in the rare chance he does find a proxy I don't have he STILL gets banned anyway as soon as he uses it !

All the proxies I have are recently tested and varified as proxies too.

This can make it very easy to get rid of him and he doesn't have the technical skills needed to outsmart me.

This puts my knowledge to use directly against him in the context of trolling IMC when banned from his excessive and extreme abuse.

A master list of proxies can be shared with all IMC's too to "pre-ban" him no matter what IMC he goes to.

This solution will effect virtually no one else because very few people even use proxies in the first place - I don't need to either.

I'm perfectly willing to use my real IP

This will be over 99 percent effective in just one simple paste on getting rid of him, yet effect less than 1 percent of IMC patrons on even the global IMC much less here.

Johnk knows how few people here use proxies - almost no one but these LGF trolls and me..

I would be more than happy to submit current working proxy lists and stop using a proxies myself to get really effective banning for these trolls in place.

Since this IMC is already banning by IP you could think as this effort as a "pilot" run of this idea to see how well it works.

(how well depends on how good my lists are and whether I grab the same proxies he uses) I already know what pools of proxies he uses due to mu analysis of the IP's shown on boards that I collected - about 1500 IP's total, a pool of a few dozen proxies are contained within this database.

I check out all the places on the web to obtain proxies so I already know *where he get's his proxies from*

This is exactly the tactic I would employ if he was tring to troll my web or IRC server.. I would simply paste my proxy lists into my ban file


Another option is to do what IRC servers do that don't allow proxies - simply have a script do a reverse lookup on the originating IP and/or simply scan the IP for *open common proxy ports*.

His abilities to get around even this are extremely limited..

I know how to evade this detection but he doesn't.

I implore johnk to try these simple easy ideas..

Just give the word and I will supply all the working proxies I can find so you can effectively ban him even when he uses and switches between proxies.

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Good Lord

by fresca Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 6:52 AM

Boy, I really got under Hex's skin with this one, didn't I?

By the way hexie, who the hell are you talking to?

All because I, do in fact, hate terrorists (Muslim, Irish (and I am Irish) Israeli, you name it.

More than that, I loathe those (like hex) who glorify and support them.

That's about it. I can't say as though anything else really drives me to hate like that.

Of course hex, you still can't find it possible to even entertain the idea that maybe your beloved "palestinians" and there heroes in Hamas might have some guilt coming to them from all their atrocities. No, when Israel defends or strikes back, they are monsters. When Hamas kills dozens of children it's a "complex" situation.

Fuck you. You're brand of hate is truly sickening.

At least I'll come straight out and tell you who and why I hate.


You'll hide your contempt and hatred of Jews forever behind your techno babble and your "complexities" of transparent concern.

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"drives me to hate"

by Hex anon w/ encryption Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 7:20 AM

animalistic

but tell us, what "drives" you to lie ?

And drives you to put words in other people's mouths ?

and drives you to spend all the time you do where you're not wanted trolling ?

you're not even smart enough to figure out the folly of being driven and yet you pretend to understand and know what makes people far smarter than you tick

what makes you tick is obvious - you spell it out for us in your own words - loudly and directly

you hate (the lowest of all emotions)
you're driven (the lowest of all motivations)
you lie (the lowest rung on the ladder of ethics)
you disbelieve (the lowest mark of intelligence)
you fear (the lowest form of maturity)
you parrot (the lowest form of creativity)
you paste(the lowest form of originality)

your very own words scream how dysfunctional you are...

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So...

by fresca Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 7:26 AM

So, was all that gibberish, another way for you to say, "yes, I still very much approve of terrorism as long as Jews and Americans are the targets"?

LOL.

But, seriously, is all this because you can't throw a curveball?
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Fresca

by fresca Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 7:28 AM

I don't know if this loon can throw a curve ball, but he's certifiable.

Hex and krankyman are providing great EV. I haven't laughed this hard since dingo left.
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keep laughing

by Hex anon w/ encryption Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 7:39 AM

confused creepy clever cleaver cretin

but seriously - do you actually think I *can't* throw a curve ball ?

I mean com'on - a monkey can do that...
it doesn't require any mental skills or anything.

hence fresca

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hex you gotta quit it

by nerdhater Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 8:05 AM

your nerding the shit out of this board and giving me a headache. Go get your daisy dukes your tye dye and grow back your super mullet and drive your bike off a cliff. god i hate nerds.

ps. could you repost that pic of yourself sitting on the fireplace looking like the lord of the nerd/fags. It would save me some time looking for that.
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Nuke Hex

by Nuke Hex the big Neurotic turd Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 8:09 AM

Nuke Hex and all his similarly warped friends
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you have to quit - said the troll

by Hex anon w/ encryption Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 8:10 AM

you know if you look really close at that picture you can see the outline of the USS Liberty in the ceiling tiles !

but hey you forgot to make fun of my cokebottles

you're slipping

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Hex Collect His DingleBerries in a Matchbox

by It Will Be a Prize At the KPFK Fund Drive Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 8:11 AM

If you donate to KPFK maybe you can win Hex's Dingleberries
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well yeah

by fresca Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 8:15 AM

"but seriously - do you actually think I *can't* throw a curve ball ? "

Well, as trivial as it might be, yeah, I doubt that you can.

I doubt that you (although I'm sure you can do a quick search to find out) even know what sort of spin it has.
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in a matchbox ?!?

by Hex anon w/ encryption Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 8:28 AM

and here I thought you were in a cage

my mistake...

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doubt has been covered already

by Hex anon w/ encryption Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 8:32 AM

doubt is disbelief -

you hate (the lowest of all emotions)
you're driven (the lowest of all motivations)
you lie (the lowest rung on the ladder of ethics)
you disbelieve (the lowest mark of intelligence)
you fear (the lowest form of maturity)
you parrot (the lowest form of creativity)
you paste(the lowest form of originality)

now you're becoming redundant as well..

the downward spiral ?

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mmmm

by Scottie Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 10:54 AM

Hex you must have alot of cognitive dissonance going on there if you actually believe what you wrote above.

It is particularly ammusing that a conspiricy theorist would say "you disbelieve - the lowest mark of intelligence"
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+ there Hex

by j.fish Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 1:59 PM

tryin' to fix a brake-line in my truck today(true), i snapped off 2 fittings(pain!)...well, i chose to replace ALL harware related to this mess vs. being stuck with a non-Functional truck for an extra day or longer...
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a troll by many other names is still a troll

by Hex anon w/ encryption Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 4:57 PM

> Yet in the photo of the actual Liberty, there are no whip antennae that resemble those you pointed out. And there is no comm mast like that in your commented photo.


duh

that's because in the pic of the actual USS Liberty, the pic is of so low quality you can't SEE the wips, so there's not much use in pointing out something you can't see anyway now is there ?

But despite that you CAN clearly see the FLAG, which is why I posed the pic


the details (masks, how many wips, etc) are different because there's a 30 year diff - the USS Liberty pic is from the 60's, that commented warship pic was recent (90's)

of course any dumb dumb can see that - in BOTH pics you CAN see the FLAGS which is SPECIFICALLY what israel calimed they could not see.

All ships fly flags - all in about the same place too (international maritime regulations) - the israeli pilots know where to LOOK FOR FLAGS since they are always in the same place due to regulations... The American flag stands out too - the red strips especially..




It is particularly ammusing that a conspiricy theorist would say "you disbelieve


that assumes the flag staring you in the face flapping in the wind MAKES one a conspiricy theorist in the first place - can you see the flag or not..

but beyond that blindness at all costs you've got it bass-ackwards, conspiricy theorists believe *too much* by defination..

but the points stand

you clearly show with your own words what developmental level you're at

I didn't even add a "changes handles like a cross-dresser changes dresses as a factor either

raw dishonesty

1.) can't stand behind one handle - lack of balls
2.) uses the multi-handle effect to make it look like there's more people on his side than really are (the main reason)
3.) always does it when pinned down (cleaves under pressure)
4.) all the clones continue to say the exact same things (parroting, cookie cutter personality)
5.) pops in and out as needed for SELF-moral support (intellectual masterbation)


people will ony put up with trolls for so long

Once the "main" troll is gone (fresca/nonanarchist most used) how much do people want to bet all these other names that pop in and out that parrot the exact same BS, will disappear as well ?

because it's really just one person - a "super troll" stroking himself, cleaving as needed, all manner of underhanded lying games...

nice contribution to IMC and it's patrons


now I'm busy, so -play ball !

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No

by Scottie Saturday, Oct. 25, 2003 at 6:56 PM

>> but beyond that blindness at all costs you've got it bass-ackwards, conspiricy theorists believe *too much* by defination..

A conspiricy theorist knows the standard story and disbelieves it. Note we are talking about "disbelief" not "belief".

"you disbelieve (the lowest mark of intelligence) "
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lowest mark of intelligence confirmed

by Hex anon w/ encryption Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 3:53 AM

> A conspiricy theorist knows the standard story and disbelieves it.


Belief is an emotion that only exists in the absence of facts. Since the "standard story" in the cases are lies and *facts are available that show different* we're dealing with the objective not subjective.

Something as simple as the difference between emotion/belief and facts/reality seems to evade you.

Or perhaps the finer aspects of life are beyond your perception.

You can see black and white but the duality of even where fact and fiction fit to yield shades of grey and where good and bad are rendered by the interplay between them are above your mental development

even after 30 years of continous adult enviroment like we all have..

I think they call that stunted..

So after raking over the implications of what your dysfunction is we reach the conclusion you're mentally stunted

Congratulations !

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"because it's really just one person..."

by nonanarchist Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 4:00 AM

'... a "super troll" stroking himself, cleaving as needed, all manner of underhanded lying games... '

Prove it.

fresca was banned. I was not, and have been able to post at will.

So let's see your "proof", Hex.

I mean, other than your "belief".
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ahah

by Scottie Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 4:15 AM

>> Belief is an emotion that only exists in the absence of facts.

A) Rubbish belief is required to believe in facts or things that are not facts.
B) It is impossible to know anything for sure (philosophy and quantum physics will tell you that from two totally different angles) And that is particularly true in politics and legal issues which is why there is a thing called "beyond reasonable doubt" as opposed to "sure".

>> Since the ... story in the cases are lies and *facts are available that show different* we're with the objective not subjective.

In most arguments on an event both sides will say the statment as above. So the fact that you say it is not surprising in the least and also unproductive.

>> Something as simple as the difference between emotion/belief and facts/reality seems to evade you.

Just because you say it does not make it so.

As also could be expected you percieve the people who tell you the correct answer to be wrong because you cannot understand it.

Your attempts to insult me only distinguish you as the person who lacks the capacity to understand the debate.
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FYI

by fresca Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 5:14 AM

Just a little clarification.

Belief is NOT an emotion.

Nor is believing or disbelieving indicative of any moral or intellectual level in and of itself.

For instance, to BELIEVE that the Earth is flat sheds an ill light on a person's reasoning ability. To DISBELIEVE in a particular claim when all evidence disproves that claim is a positive act.

Not for nothing hex, but your misuse or misunderstanding of certain terms renders your diatribes as pointless.
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I don't like to dance

by Hex anon w/ encryption Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 5:30 AM

> believe in facts


ouch ! just when you think you've heard the dumbest thing ever you get a double dose

hello ? earth to scottie

one doesn't have to "believe" in facts, facts are reality - facts will bite you in the ass whether you "believe" them or not !

Can you possibly get any dumber ?

look it up for god's sake - punch up "belief in facts" or "subjective verses objective"

punch up a brain while you're at it


and speaking of

> It is impossible to know anything for sure

what's sure ARE facts - reality

you start with laws of nature and science and work your way up

wow - you've got the understanding of a strange quark

look that up too hahahha


RE: conspiracy theories v "standard stories"

> both sides


so now it's equal - you've just retracted your claim then.

nice tapdancing


> the correct answer to be wrong

Whoops - your brain slipped again, those pesky little things called FACTS I mentioned - remember those ?

Let's DISCUSS THOSE insted of circular tapdancing

your steps are getting old


> lacks the capacity to understand the debate.

with FACTS - henceforth

my feet are getting tired

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Still waiting, Hex.

by nonanarchist Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 9:19 AM

Still waiting for proof that fresca and I and others are all the same person.
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Right

by fresca Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 12:21 PM

I to am curious as to whether I am actually only a mere component of this "supertroll".

Please clarify. My week's plans depend on whether I am my own entity or not.
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ahah

by Scottie Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 12:33 PM

> look it up for god's sake - punch up "belief in facts" or "subjective verses objective"

Rant all you like your still wrong. anyway aren't you shooting yourself in the foot by admitting that someone might have "belief in facts" since you were arguing

>> Belief is an emotion that only exists in the absence of facts.
IE that facts and belief don’t coexist and "facts" only seem to exist in your head.

>what's sure ARE facts - reality
>you start with laws of nature and science and work your way up

Your going to use the laws of nature alone to save the USS liberty case? Well if that’s the case I suggest you study up on the laws of nature a bit more because you don’t sound like you know them.

However we can say beyond a reasonable doubt that you are a moron who cant even keep up with the average person in determining what to believe.

>wow - you've got the understanding of a strange quark

congratulations you know a sub nucleic particle. But you really should have stayed at school for the rest of the lesson your obviously lacking.

>> look that up too hahaha

- Unlike you I don’t need to. Fool.
You probably have no idea about it even now except it is small.

>RE: conspiracy theories v "standard stories"
> both sides
> so now it's equal - you've just retracted your claim then.

A) Go back to logic 101
B) I think you need to do referencing 101 as well.

- you clearly don’t understand logic.

You think you have made a point when actually it is totally irrelevant. There is another IQ or GMAT etc question you would have failed.

> the correct answer to be wrong

>> Whoops - your brain slipped again, those pesky little things called FACTS I mentioned - remember those ?

- one day you may realise that it only appears to you that you are winning points because you have been too stupid to realise you aren't.
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ahah

by Scottie Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 12:43 PM

I hear I am part of the super troll also.
Fortunately the super troll must be a genius and well educated on many topics, expert at maintain many different multiple personalities while remembering all of the traits that he ascribes to each person while also posting all over this site and several others while at the same time as holding down his big corporate job.
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IT"S SUPERTROLL!

by nonanarchist Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 1:08 PM

Posts faster than a speeding bullet --
More powerful than Noam Chomsky --
Able to leap faulty leftist logic at a single bound.
LOOK! Up in the sky...is it a bird? Is it a plane?
NO! It's SUPERTROLL!

Yes, Supertroll! Strange visitor from another political philosophy,
able to change the course of conspiracy theory-laden threads,
bend memes in his bare hands,
and who, posing as a mild-mannered poster logging on from a great metropolitan ISP,
fights a never-ending battle for TRUTH, JUSTICE, and the AMERICAN WAY!!!!
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AhHaaHahahahaaaaa...

by j.fish Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 1:38 PM

good one N/a, but hex raises some relevant ?'s on the Liberty incident...too bad most could care less and it changes jack in the ongoing jew-u.s. relationship, as it should,...witch hunting & such you know
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J.fish

by fresca Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 1:49 PM

"but hex raises some relevant ?'s on the Liberty incident"

Sure he does. And if he was at all actually interested in the answers all would be fine. But he's not. When shown evidence contrary to the conclusion he hopes to find he literally reverts to crazy land. "That evidence is phony the NSA contrived it."

That's simply garden variety conspiracy theory 101.

I don't think that any of us "Supertroll" personanlities (good point NA about having to keep track of so many traits and writing styles) are flatly defending or excusing Israel for what did or din't happen. But hex is clearly obsessed only with damning Israel no matter what. Our defense of Israel, I think, is much more a reaction to his creepiness than anything else. I mean, come on, I think all of us have illustrated the notion that we are fairly strongly pro-American and really have no motivation to defend Israel if she did in fact attack us. I don't think we'd condemn Israel entirely either.

Ultimately, hex's transparent anti-semitism is just so easily mocked, it's hard to help it.
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Good analysis, everyone.

by nonanarchist Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 1:55 PM

fresca's right...us Supertroll facets are just ineterested in truth, justice, and the American way.

Unfortunately (for them), it gets Hex et.al.'s panties in a bunch.

They've been given a political wedgie and they don't even know by whom...they'd rather think it was some shadow conspiracy intent of wiping out the entire human race.

The truth is, they're hauled their own underwear up between their cheeks.

And some of them enjoy that.
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correction

by fresca Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 2:01 PM

Actually I was going to say that, with all due respect, and I'm sure he thought of it as well, that NA should not have recieved the pat on the back for the whole Supertroll keeping track of all the different personality traits and so forth.

Scottie actually pointed that out.
Anyway, I was going to say all that, but since we are all part of the same "Supertroll Hive Mind" it's pointless. I already know what I was going to say.

Carry on me.
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We are the Supertroll.

by nonanarchist Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 2:27 PM

We will add your political and philosophical distinctiveness to our own.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
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my nemesis...Print media

by j.fish Sunday, Oct. 26, 2003 at 2:40 PM

my real thots have difficulty coming thru(suppozing the world is made up of J.fishes--We'll all perish!... maybe) so in a vernacular vein: I Support an Israel/U.S. union(of sorts) in the ME to ensure the flames are minimal, and the libertyfiasco is dogmeat,(tho Hex has a lot of credence in the uptodate factual relevance of the sit)...did i come thru?finally?
Sides the first pitch is~~1/2hr from now, so tune in and turn ON!!...OR DIE!!...hahahaaaHaaaaaa
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fantasy panties under your dress ?

by Hex anon w/ encryption Tuesday, Oct. 28, 2003 at 9:13 AM

fantasy panties unde...
uss_liberty_after_attack.jpg, image/jpeg, 750x612

Some recent facts ;

the boss of the "dancing isralis" (the mossad agents who were nabbed by the FBI for videotaping the WTC disaster and cheering, who's van contained traces of explosive residue) is on the FBI's terrorist suspect list.

Those agents were part of a large group of "art students" that were busted as the biggest spy ring ever on american soil and sent back to israel.

official government documents reveal...

a plan was exposed that involved them blowing up the bridge and tunnels between NYC and Jersey to cut off escape routes from the WTC disaster.

FBI documents show

FACTS

no more dancing

and this thing about the troll(s) having our/my panties in a wad

where's my 12 posts after I said no more dancing facts only ?

j.fish sounds retarded - you can barely even understand him.

why in gods name would a retarded troll expect to be taken seriously and not simply the obelisk he projects onto other's ? when supertrolls are around already to get their panties in a wad outdoing himself posting a dozen replies to - no one ?


the only response you'll get is;

boss of dancing israeli's on FBI's WTC terrorist suspect list

FBI documents show

or discuss ONLY the USS Liberty evidence, and not this nit-picking game about can any variation be found in any testimonial. The flag, can you see the FLAG as in the above actual picture - that's the actual flag in question - before they shot it down and an even bigger 7' by 13' one was raised.

FACTS ONLY - no troll baiting games


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Israel-Be-Gone

by bye Tuesday, Oct. 28, 2003 at 9:29 AM

This is all moot since Israel dissolved over the weekend.
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and there we are - the troll is moot

by Hex anon w/ encryption Tuesday, Oct. 28, 2003 at 10:00 AM

discuss FACTS, FBI documents, government evidence, FOIA, photos, video, eyewitnesses, etc

moot

the troll is now moot

good !

now we know what to ALWAYS DISCUSS FROM NOW ON don't we !

as a bonus we get to see how amusing and how many laughs the troll gets when we discuss FACTS rather than the troll bait he wishes us to waste our time on.

As we see he's NOT LAUGHING NOW and is MOOT..



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Israel=moot

by bye bye Tuesday, Oct. 28, 2003 at 10:07 AM

Troll is not moot. Israel is moot. It doesn't exist anymore. It dissolved this past weekend. They couldn't take your pics being posted everywhere anymore. So no reason to discuss the USS Liberty because Israel dissolved over the matter already. What power you have. Good job! Way to go!
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facts make great troll repellent don't they ?

by Hex anon w/ encryption Tuesday, Oct. 28, 2003 at 10:28 AM

facts make great tro...
uss_li_5.jpgehwvts.jpg, image/jpeg, 325x448

QUESTION - DO YOU SEE THE FLAG ?
Israel claims it's pilots could not

(this is the actual flag in question on the actual ship)



> So no reason to discuss the USS Liberty

that's exactly what we *are* discussing

and israel

exactly what you don't want to discuss...

have fun laughing your ass off..



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why respond at all to obvious troll baiting ?

by Hex anon w/ encryption Tuesday, Oct. 28, 2003 at 11:55 AM

I dunno. I just can't help myself.
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OneEyedMan

by KPC Wednesday, Oct. 29, 2003 at 4:15 PM

"WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE between the TERRORISM of suicide bombers and IDF/IOF firing at Palestinian Civilians ( including children) on purpose? "

This was the question. The answer from Fresca

"Israel only strikes in retaliation and defense"

A non-answer which brings us right back to square one:

"WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE between the TERRORISM of suicide bombers and IDF/IOF firing at Palestinian Civilians ( including children) on purpose? "

Your move, Moldy One....

Oh...and it's "heads"...not "heds"......for those keeping track of such things....
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Au Contraire

by fresca Wednesday, Oct. 29, 2003 at 5:52 PM

""Israel only strikes in retaliation and defense"

A non-answer which brings us right back to square one:
"

First of all, welcome back...in China?

My point is this.

When Hamas et.al. send a suicide bomber into Israel, the sole purpose of the attack is to force Israel, as any and all states would, into striking back in retaliation.

These retaliations are designed to kill Hamas members. They have, at least, some "military" goal.
Unfortunately, as Hamas, et.al, hide amongst civilians, innocents are often affected.

Does this make it all alright? No. I've said here before plenty of times that Israel needs to at least try to hold it's hand after such terrorist attcks to at least see what the result is. They can always strike back later. Hamas and their ilk will never stop attcking unless the palestinian average person turns against them as well.

Hamas terrorizes. Israel retaliates and the cycle of Palestinian support for Hamas continues.

There IS a difference between the two. Of course there is. There's no true equating a suicide bomber with a miltary attack designed to defend.

But again, retaliation has not worked from a strategic standpoint so something else needs to happen. Isarel has got to stop feeding the support machine of Hamas.
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