The LA Philharmonic is sponsoring the Israel Philharmonic concert at the new Disney Hall on Wednesday, Dec 10. A letter soliciting support for this concert says the "concert marks the beginning of the IPO's 2003 US tour celebrating Israel's 55th Anniversary."

Boycott/Protest: Phone the LA PHIL administrative offices at 213-972-7300 or click on administrative offices at this link to get an email form http://www.laphil.org/contact/index.cfm

Stupid politics out of beautiful music please. We have every right to celebrate Israel. Just because Arabs don't give two shits about their communities, culture, or female rights doesn't mean Americans have to also. The stuff I read on this site is making me go from liberal to conservative in 0 to sixty. The only reason The Phil, isn't doing one of these things for Palestinians is because Palestinians prefer murder of babies at cafes to orchestra. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, the only racially diverse poulation with Jews living beside many differing religions and sects with equal representation even for those they are in Struggle or at war with. I don't see Sadam represented here in the US yet you guys want Arabs who hate to be represented in Israel, and they are. Get real. We Jews don't want to be forced to wear veils and slaughtered in pogroms anymore. Don't you get it? Why don't you go join the Taliban.

by sponsoring a concert intended to "celebrate Israel's 55 Anniversary." So phone the Phil (213) 972-7300) and tell them to keep politics out of music by NOT sponsoring this concert! The LA PHIL should not "celebrate" a country that violates the human rights of the indigenous people, destroys their homes, prevents them from practicing "beautiful music" by enforcing curfews, steals their land, etc.

They could do the "1812 Overture" and use suicide bombers at the end.

And AK-47s in the percussion section.

to insert politics into music. So phone the LA Phil (213-972-7300 or http://www.laphil.org/contact/ ) and tell them NOT to sponsor this concert! They should not sponsor a concert to "celebrate" a country that continually violates the human rights of the indigenous people, occupies their territory, violates international law, destroys their homes, and enforces curfews so these people are unable enjoy or make "beautiful music". This is NOT something to "celebrate"!

You absolutely refuse to let people think for themselves.

You tell the LA Phil what they may and may not support.

You tell people how they must feel about issues.

Tell me: how long have you felt that the world needs you to do its thinking for it? And what makes you think you're qualified to do so?

sponsoring a political event and they use their subscriber list to solicit support for their actions. Phone or email the LA PHIL and tell them to stay out of politics and stick to music (213-972-7300 or http://www.laphil.org/contact/ )

There you go again, telling people what they must or must not do.

Tell me, would you be getting so worked up if the LA Phil had made a political statement by putting on a show honoring Palestine?

Something tells me you wouldn't.

As ridiculous as this thread is it's also that predictable.

The assholes who get all excited over things like this are simply that; assholes.

To celebrate the 55 anniversary of a country (and NOT it's politics mind you) is about as innoccuous as it gets.

Gro the hell up you fools.

By the way, nonarnarchist nailed it. If this was about Palestine you'd all be mute.

You are all pathetic.

to this day, the music of German composer Wagner is not played in Israel?

Wagner did not live to see nazi Germany yet his works were widely used as "official" music during that period.

If the Jewish State doesn't abide the "separate yourself from politics, enjoy Arts" policy you are proposing (and which I support), why should we return the same courtesy?

Sometimes, it boils down to simple fairness.

Oh, I dunno...perhaps because Wagner was the soundtrack to the horror that took 7 million lives, perhaps?

Your sympathy for those deaths is underwhelming.

How is remaining silent a way to let the people choose? The hall isn't going to stage a debate about the Israel/Palestine issue. Rather, they are going to put the weight of their money behind this concert.

The odds that the Phil would do a show with a Palestinian orchestra are close to nil. What orchestra? What money? The Palestinians are a poor population being exploited and enclosed into ghettos.

Follow the money; speak truth to power.

If you don't like the LA Phil doing a concert commemorating Israel's 55 birthday,

DON'T GO.

Simple, huh?

But nooooooo...you guys have to have the arrogance to tell other people what they HAVE to do.

Typical.

It's called a BOYCOTT and while you're at it, phone or email the LA PHIL (213-972-7300 http://www.laphil.org/contact/ ) to tell them that it is inappropriate to sponsor a concert that "celebrates" an outlaw country that commits continual human rights violations. The LA PHIL "celebrates" the explusion and ongoing devastation of the indigenous people of Palestine.

Sure, boycott all you want.

I'm perfectly willing to bet you and you buddies just aren't Philharmonic types anyway.

However, you need to stop getting all self-righteous and telling other people what they MUST do.

Oh, I forgot...you're part of the crowd that thinks you have to do the thinking for other people.

Gotcha.

Conservatives love to accuse liberals of creating restrictions on institutions to "do the thinking for other people," yet, the top dog conservative, G.W. Bush, has spent an entire war getting his administration to do the thinking for the big media. If you don't report the official government story, you won't get access to the front lines. If didn't report the military angle, they weren't going to have an embedded reporter. The invasion had to go to hell so bad that it was undeniable before the newsmagazines started reporting negatively about the war.

"The invasion had to go to hell so bad that it was undeniable before the newsmagazines started reporting negatively about the war.

"

What the hell are you talking about? Even throwing out all reports like the Jessica Lynch story and any other feel good reports (not there's anything wrong with that when you're at war for Christ's sake), how has this at all "gone to hell"? What exactly are you talking about?

And thank you very much, but please wake up and pull your head out of your ass. There's no reason on Earth for the Phil to not celebrate Israel.

Common decency is the reason not to celbrate 50 years of the racist, zionist state. It is no different than celebrating the creation of the apartheid regime in South Africa, the 1973 fascist coup in Chile, or the establishment of the Franco regime in Spain would have been. What's next - the celebration of the Rape of Nanking, with Japanese generals invited as guests of honor?

It's quite silly to compare Israel to those regimes. In fact her Arab neighbors share far more similarities to fascism than Israel does. Israel has free tade unions, a multi-party democracy, a thriving civil-society and so on. Try to speak out against government policies in the Islamic world and you will get a lead breakfast.

Your argument is rubbish. First of all, the orchestra is celebrating Israel, not any Arab state, so the political nature of Arab regimes is completely irrelevant to what is being argued here.

So you think you can speak out against the government with ease in Israel? Try revealing information about nuclear weapons of mass destruction like Vanunu did.

Israel is a disgrace. Zioism is racist. The criticism of the Phil is entierely justified.

No, ex-lefty activist's assessment of the situation is right on. The fact is, those who condemn Israel for various "crimes" routinely ignore the same offences when committed by Arab states.

"Try revealing information about nuclear weapons of mass destruction like Vanunu did."

Try that ANYWHERE. Disclosing classified information is a strict no-no. Duh.

And hey, guess what? The Phil can do whatever it wants. Don't like it? Don't go.

ML doesn't like it, he's bitching and moaning about it, so it must be a good thing. Of course, he bitches and moans about most everything. Makes you want to be one of them, doesn't it?

Of course we all know, Mr. Nonanarchist, that you would say the same thing if the Phil was honoring Rachel Corey, raising money for Arafat's political movement, or holding a benefit for the peace movement. Cut the hypocrisy. What a phoney. I must admit, though, that I don't think you will be attending any Philharmonic concerts. Britney Spears more closely approaches your level.

Remarkable! When did you first discover you could read minds, Oscar Meyer? Is it an innate ability, or did it require years of training?

Do you use your powers only for good, or do you sometimes go to Vegas? You could clean up at the blackjack tables.

/dripping sarcasm off

Yes, I would say the same thing if the Phil were celebrating any of the subjects you mentioned. Search the archives, looking under daveman, mr wilson, tpfkamw, and nonanarchist and try to find any post that advocates the suppression of ANYONE's right to freedom of expression (you know, what you and your bunch are trying to do to the Phil).

You will find no such post.

Cut your own hypocisy; when was the last time you criticized Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians for any offence of which you accuse Israel? Waiting...waiting...

No, I won't be attending any LA Phil concerts. Not worth the airfare.

As for Britney Spears, she's eye candy; most of her talent is in her bra.

I infinitely prefer Foreigner, Pink Floyd, Styx, REO Speedwagon, CCR, Jpourney, etc...

Why would anyone be criticizing Arabs or Arab regimes when the issue we are discussing is the honoring of the racist, apatheid state of Israel by the LA Philharmonic? It is perfectly legitimate for people who live in the LA area, or even people who live elsewhere and hear the Phil on radio, to criticize the honoring of a racist entity that is currently stealing land and committing mass murder with weapons supplied by the US taxpayer.

Take a look at some of the criticisms that Susan Sarandon and other actors got when they protested the Iraq war. Some of the rightwingers posting here certainly had no hesitancy in telling them what to say or not to say. None of them protested when the Dixie Chicks were banned from some radio stations for expressing their political opinions, either. The LA Phil has not been banned from radio stations or anywhere else, and no one here has suggested that it should be. But don't tell us that we don't have every right to protest when they endorse racism, land theft and mass murder, all carried out under the cover of religious mumbo-jumbo or by appealing to the Holocaust.

...I didn't realize you were so sensitive about your hypocrisy.

You can criticize anything you want. I have never said you couldn't.

But when you (repeatedly) say ridiculous things like "...the racist, apatheid state of Israel..." without acknowledging that Arab states are demonstrably far worse, my Hipocrite-O-Meter pegs.

I don't care what Susan Sarandon et. al. say. They are free to express their opinions. But I damn well reserve the same right for myself.

And for the Phil.

And you're wanting to deny the Phil the right to celibrate what they want.

More rubbish. No one here claimed that the Phil does not have a legal right to honor Israel - or, for that matter, to honor Adolf Hitler. But it does not have a right to be free from criticism if it honors Zionism, Hitlerism, or any othe racist and reactionary ideology.

"... tell them to keep politics out of music by NOT sponsoring this concert!"

" tell them NOT to sponsor this concert! They should not sponsor a concert to "celebrate" a country that continually violates the human rights of the indigenous people, occupies their territory, violates international law, destroys their homes, and enforces curfews so these people are unable enjoy or make "beautiful music". This is NOT something to "celebrate"!"

"... tell them to stay out of politics and stick to music..."

Looks like SOMEbody in here wants to tell the Phil what it may and may not do.

And I said nothing about "legal" rights. To me, freedom of expression is a basic human right.

And somebody wants the Phil's denied.

Absolutely correct Meyer. We'd all expect nothing less then pure goose-stepping criticism from you and your ilk. After all, if it's Jewish, it's gotta be bad, right?

The point is that since there's obviously nothing to your claims of Zionism or Israel being racist, your criticism is laughable. Maybe you and your buddies can have a celebratory drum circle for Hamas, rachel and cancer. Then, everyone'll be happy.

And still more rubbish. No one is depriving the management of the Phil of any "rights" (legal or otherwise) by protesting their participation in a racist celebration. Or are we just supposed to shut up because you don't like criticism of the Holy State? Like the Zionists did when the didn't like Cynthia McKinney's views, eh? Or do the managers of the Phil have rights that an elected official does not have?

More moronic, irrelevant and slanderous statements.

1. No one here on this thread said that everything Jewish is bad or anything similar. They said that it is wrong to celebrate the birth of a racist entity, the Zionist state.

2. You need to get over your hatred of Rachel Corey, a brave and warm-hearted woman whose shoes you are not worthy to kiss.

3. More than ample proof that Israel is racist has been presented right on this website. If, for some reason, you have blocked it out or failed to comprehend it, try reading some good books by Robert Fisk or Noam Chomsky.

"Robert Fisk or Noam Chomsky."

This is a joke right?

By the way, how come none of the Islamic states in the world are racist?

How is it that the only state in the enetire middle east where an arab can hold a truly elected government position is in Israel.

If Israel is racist, then the world should be so racist.

Face it, your claims are thinly veiled hate speech. Nothing to support them but racism and typical leftist groupspeak.

The Fisk/Chomsky bit was hilarious though.

" No one is depriving the management of the Phil of any "rights" (legal or otherwise) by protesting their participation in a racist celebration."

No, no one is depriving their rights.

Yet: what is the intent of the protest? To merely make disagreement and displeasure known to the Phil?

Hardly. You guys want them to bow under your pressure and cancel the concert.

Should they do this (highly unlikely) thing, you may argue, "Well, they changed their mind; it was their choice." But their original choice was to give the concert. Suppression of their rights? Hmmm...

"Or are we just supposed to shut up because you don't like criticism of the Holy State?"

Sheesh...if I coouldn't tolerate criticism of Israel, I sure as heck wouldn't be here, would I?

"More than ample proof that Israel is racist has been presented right on this website."

"...try reading some good books by Robert Fisk or Noam Chomsky."

Oh, okay...THAT'S the problem. We're speaking two different languages. You see, in my language, those ideas are impossible to formulate: "proof on imc", "Israel is racist", and "good books by Fisk or Chomsky".

No point in further debate until we share a common language.

When you hear about the LA Phil honoring any Islamic state (and don't hold your breath until they do) feel free to let them know your views on the subject. And, of course, you can share them with us.

But don't expect me to demand that they not give the concert.

Actually, I rather like traditional Arab music.

Their dance music rocks, too.