FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY
The Author Of This Report Is Not Known


Some people have referred to it as the "secret government" of the United States. It is not an elected body, it does not involve itself in public disclosures, and it even has a quasi-secret budget in the billions of dollars. This government organization has more power than the President of the United States or the Congress, it has the power to suspend laws, move entire populations, arrest and detain citizens without a warrant and hold them without trial, it can seize property, food supplies, transportation systems, and can suspend the Constitution. Not only is it the most powerful entity in the United States, but it was not even created under Constitutional law by the Congress. It was a product of a Presidential Executive Order. No, it is not the U.S. Military nor the Central Intelligence Agency, they are subject to Congress. The organization is called FEMA, which stands for the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Originally conceived in the Richard Nixon Administration, it was refined by President Jimmy Carter and given teeth in the Ronald Reagan and George Bush Administrations. FEMA had one original concept when it was created, to assure the survivability of the United States government in the event of a nuclear attack on this nation. It was also provided with the task of being a federal co-ordinating body during times of domestic disasters, such as earthquakes, floods and hurricanes. Its awesome powers grow under the tutelage of people like Lt. Col. Oliver North and General Richard Secord, the architects on the Iran-Contra scandal and the looting of America's savings and loan institutions. FEMA has even been given control of the State Defense Forces, a rag-tag, often considered neo-Nazi, civilian army that will substitute for the National Guard, if the Guard is called to duty overseas.
THE MOST POWERFUL ORGANIZATION IN THE UNITED STATES

Though it may be the most powerful organization in the United States, few people know it even exists. But it has crept into our private lives. Even mortgage papers contain FEMA's name in small print if the property in question is near a flood plain. FEMA was deeply involved in the Los Angeles riots and the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake in the San Francisco Bay Area. Some of the black helicopter traffic reported throughout the United States, but mainly in the West, California, Washington, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and Colorado, are flown by FEMA personnel. FEMA has been given responsibility for many new disasters including urban forest fires, home heating emergencies, refugee situations, urban riots, and emergency planning for nuclear and toxic incidents. In the West, it works in conjunction with the Sixth Army.

FEMA was created in a series of Executive Orders. A Presidential Executive Order, whether Constitutional or not, becomes law simply by its publication in the Federal Registry. Congress is by-passed. Executive Order Number 12148 created the Federal Emergency Management Agency that is to interface with the Department of Defense for civil defense planning and funding. An "emergency czar" was appointed. FEMA has only spent about 6 percent of its budget on national emergencies, the bulk of their funding has been used for the construction of secret underground facilities to assure continuity of government in case of a major emergency, foreign or domestic. Executive Order Number 12656 appointed the National Security Council as the principal body that should consider emergency powers. This allows the government to increase domestic intelligence and surveillance of U.S. citizens and would restrict the freedom of movement within the United States and grant the government the right to isolate large groups of civilians. The National Guard could be federalized to seal all borders and take control of U.S. air space and all ports of entry.

Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:


EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis." FEMA's powers were consolidated by President Carter to incorporate:

the National Security Act of 1947, which allows for the strategic relocation of industries, services, government and other essential economic activities, and to rationalize the requirements for manpower, resources and production facilities;

the 1950 Defense Production Act, which gives the President sweeping powers over all aspects of the economy;

the Act of August 29, 1916, which authorizes the Secretary of the Army, in time of war, to take possession of any transportation system for transporting troops, material, or any other purpose related to the emergency; and

the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which enables the President to seize the property of a foreign country or national. These powers were transferred to FEMA in a sweeping consolidation in 1979.
HURRICANE ANDREW FOCUSED ATTENTION ON FEMA

FEMA's deceptive role really did not come to light with much of the public until Hurricane Andrew smashed into the U.S. mainland. As Russell R. Dynes, director of the Disaster Research Center of the University of Delaware, wrote in The World and I, "...The eye of the political storm hovered over the Federal Emergency Management Agency. FEMA became a convenient target for criticism." Because FEMA was accused of dropping the ball in Florida, the media and Congress commenced to study this agency. What came out of the critical look was that FEMA was spending 12 times more for "black operations" than for disaster relief.

It spent $1.3 billion building secret bunkers throughout the United States in anticipation of government disruption by foreign or domestic upheaval. Yet fewer than 20 members of Congress, only members with top security clearance, know of the $1.3 billion expenditure by FEMA for non-natural disaster situations. These few Congressional leaders state that FEMA has a "black curtain" around its operations. FEMA has worked on National Security programs since 1979, and its predecessor, the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency, has secretly spent millions of dollars before being merged into FEMA by President Carter in 1979.

FEMA has developed 300 sophisticated mobile units that are capable of sustaining themselves for a month. The vehicles are located in five areas of the United States. They have tremendous communication systems and each contains a generator that would provide power to 120 homes each, but have never been used for disaster relief.

FEMA's enormous powers can be triggered easily. In any form of domestic or foreign problem, perceived and not always actual, emergency powers can be enacted. The President of the United States now has broader powers to declare martial law, which activates FEMA's extraordinary powers. Martial law can be declared during time of increased tension overseas, economic problems within the United States, such as a depression, civil unrest, such as demonstrations or scenes like the Los Angeles riots, and in a drug crisis.

These Presidential powers have increased with successive Crime Bills, particularly the 1991 and 1993 Crime Bills, which increase the power to suspend the rights guaranteed under the Constitution and to seize property of those suspected of being drug dealers, to individuals who participate in a public protest or demonstration. Under emergency plans already in existence, the power exists to suspend the Constitution and turn over the reigns of government to FEMA and appointing military commanders to run state and local governments. FEMA then would have the right to order the detention of anyone whom there is reasonable ground to believe will engage in, or probably conspire with others to engage in acts of espionage or sabotage. The plan also authorized the establishment of concentration camps for detaining the accused, but no trial. An Executive Order signed by then President Bush in 1989 authorized the Federal Emergency Management Agency to build 43 primary camps (having a capacity of 35,000 to 45,000 prisoners each) and also authorized hundreds of secondary facilities. It is interesting to note that several of these facilities can accommodate 100,000 prisoners. These facilities have been completed and many are already manned but as yet contain no prisoners.

Three times since 1984, FEMA stood on the threshold of taking control of the nation. Once under President Reagan in 1984, and twice under President Bush in 1990 and 1992. But under those three scenarios, there was not a sufficient crisis to warrant risking martial law. Most experts on the subject of FEMA and Martial Law insisted that a crisis has to appear dangerous enough for the people of the United States before they would tolerate or accept complete government takeover. The typical crisis needed would be threat of imminent nuclear war, rioting in several U.S. cites simultaneously, a series of national disasters that affect widespread danger to the populous, massive terrorist attacks, a depression in which tens of millions are unemployed and without financial resources, or a major environmental disaster.

THREE TIMES FEMA STOOD BY READY FOR EMERGENCY

In April 1984, President Reagan signed Presidential Director Number 54 that allowed FEMA to engage in a secret national "readiness exercise" under the code name of REX 84. The exercise was to test FEMA's readiness to assume military authority in the event of a "State of Domestic National Emergency" concurrent with the launching of a direct United States military operation in Central America. The plan called for the deputation of U.S. military and National Guard units so that they could legally be used for domestic law enforcement. These units would be assigned to conduct sweeps and take into custody an estimated 400,000 undocumented Central American immigrants in the United States. The immigrants would be interned at 10 detention centers to be set up at military bases throughout the country. REX 84 was so highly guarded that special metal security doors were placed on the fifth floor of the FEMA building in Washington, D.C. Even long-standing employees of the Civil Defense of the Federal Executive Department possessing the highest possible security clearances were not being allowed through the newly installed metal security doors. Only personnel wearing a special red Christian cross or crucifix lapel pin were allowed into the premises. Lt. Col. North was responsible for drawing up the emergency plan, which U.S. Attorney General William French Smith opposed vehemently.

The plan called for the suspension of the Constitution, turning control of the government over to FEMA, appointment of military commanders to run state and local governments and the declaration of Martial Law. The Presidential Executive Orders to support such a plan were already in place. The plan also advocated the rounding up and transfer to "assembly centers or relocation camps" of a least 21 million American Negroes in the event of massive rioting or disorder, not unlike the rounding up of the Jews in Nazi Germany in the 1930s.

The second known time that FEMA stood by was in 1990 when Desert Storm was enacted. Prior to President Bush's invasion of Iraq, FEMA began to draft new legislation to increase its already formidable powers. One of the elements incorporated into the plan was to set up operations within any state or locality without the prior permission of local or state authorities. Such prior permission has always been required in the past. Much of the mechanism being set into place was in anticipation of the economic collapse of the Western World. The war with Iraq may have been conceived as a ploy to boost the bankrupt economy, but it only pushed the West into deeper recession.

The third scenario for FEMA came with the Los Angeles riots after the Rodney King brutality verdict. Had the rioting spread to other cities, FEMA would have been empowered to step in. As it was, major rioting only occurred in the Los Angeles area, thus preventing a pretext for a FEMA response. On July 5, 1987, the Miami Herald published reports on FEMA's new goals. The goal was to suspend the Constitution in the event of a national crisis, such as nuclear war, violent and widespread internal dissent, or national opposition to a U.S. military invasion abroad. Lt. Col. North was the architect. National Security Directive Number 52 issued in August 1982, pertains to the "Use of National Guard Troops to Quell Disturbances." The crux of the problem is that FEMA has the power to turn the United States into a police state in time of a real crisis or a manufactured crisis. Lt. Col. North virtually established the apparatus for dictatorship. Only the criticism of the Attorney General prevented the plans from being adopted. But intelligence reports indicate that FEMA has a folder with 22 Executive Orders for the President to sign in case of an emergency. It is believed those Executive Orders contain the framework of North's concepts, delayed by criticism but never truly abandoned.

The crisis, as the government now see it, is civil unrest. For generations, the government was concerned with nuclear war, but the violent and disruptive demonstrations that surrounded the Vietnam War era prompted President Nixon to change the direction of emergency powers from war time to times of domestic unrest. Diana Raynolds, program director of the Edward R. Murrow Center, summed up the dangers of FEMA today and the public reaction to Martial Law in a drug crisis: "It was James Madison's worst nightmare that a righteous faction would someday be strong enough to sweep away the Constitutional restraints designed by the framers to prevent the tyranny of centralized power, excessive privilege, an arbitrary governmental authority over the individual. These restraints, the balancing and checking of powers among branches and layers of government, and the civil guarantees, would be the first casualties in a drug-induced national security state with Reagan's Civil Emergency Preparedness unleashed. Nevertheless, there would be those who would welcome NSC (National Security Council) into the drug fray, believing that increasing state police powers to emergency levels is the only way left to fight American's enemy within. In the short run, a national security state would probably be a relief to those whose personal security and quality of life has been diminished by drugs or drug related crime. And, as the general public watches the progression of institutional chaos and social decay, they too may be willing to pay the ultimate price, one drug free America for 200 years of democracy."

The first targets in any FEMA emergency would be Hispanics and Blacks, the FEMA orders call for them to be rounded up and detained. Tax protesters, demonstrators against government military intervention outside U.S. borders, and people who maintain weapons in their homes are also targets. Operation Trojan Horse is a program designed to learn the identity of potential opponents to martial law. The program lures potential protesters into public forums, conducted by a "hero" of the people who advocates survival training. The list of names gathered at such meetings and rallies are computerized and then targeted in case of an emergency.

The most shining example of America to the world has been its peaceful transition of government from one administration to another. Despite crises of great magnitude, the United States has maintained its freedom and liberty. This nation now stands on the threshold of rule by non-elected people asserting non-Constitutional powers. Even Congress cannot review a Martial Law action until six months after it has been declared. For the first time in American history, the reigns of government would not be transferred from one elected element to another, but the Constitution, itself, can be suspended. The scenarios established to trigger FEMA into action are generally found in the society today, economic collapse, civil unrest, drug problems, terrorist attacks, and protests against American intervention in a foreign country. All these premises exist, it could only be a matter of time in which one of these triggers the entire emergency necessary to bring FEMA into action, and then it may be too late, because under the FEMA plan, there is no contingency by which Constitutional power is restored.

SECRET UNDERGROUND BASES

There have been documented over 60 secret underground virtual cities, built by the government, Federal Reserve Bank owners, and high ranking members of the Committee of 300. Some of these underground areas can be seen in Kansas City, Missouri and Kansas City, Kansas. In addition, there exist underground Satellite Tracking Facilities which have the ability to punch your 911 address into the computer and a satellite can within seconds bring a camera to bear on your property to the point that those monitoring can read clearly the articles of the newspaper on your doorstep. These facilities have as of Oct. 1, 1994, been turned over to the power of the United Nations.

The facilities that you are seeing being constructed around the Unitied States are HILCs or Higher Intelligence Logistic Centers. These facitlties have been in the planning since the late 1950's. They are going to be used to recieve and coordinate the intergration of higher intellegence beings from other galaxies in our solar system. It was a deal made long ago with leaders of the most powerful organizations in the world (Black Horizin 4 and UNTL-8. In trade for allowing the "invaders" into our country and duping the most powerful governments in the world to go along with it, the powerful men in these organizations were given very advance technology from the aliens that would make them billions of dollars. With this technology they set up business like Microsoft, Honeywell, every single defense contractors, etc. They have come up with cover stories like "Operstion Garden Plot" and "Cable Splice" to dupe people into thinking that these facilities are for people that will be incarcerated FEMA in the event of martial law. The NEW WORLD ORDOR, that many are accepting with open arms, is the real threat. This new government will be run by the aliens. Once the NWO comes to power the aliens will begin to arrive by the millions and they will be processed in these facilities that are not only in the United States-- they are being constructed everywhere. The Aliens will first be our friends. After a short time the aliens will crush us killing most of the population (the week, the elderly, the retarded,Etc.) the ones that they do not kill will be made slaves to the aliens. We are in the end days on planet earth as we know it. The time is here--- RESIST RESIST RESIST

Thank You.

Thank you. Thank You. Thank You.

It's comments like the above that keep this place entertaining.

It's also comforting to know that people who believe crap like this (borrower from antoher thread).........

>Its fascism.
Its what conservative imbeciles are trying to ram down the throat of all Americans.

..........are the same quacks who believe the that FEMA is going to round up citizens and aliens are going to take over the world.

Where else can you get this kind of entertainment on the internet? And it's FREE!!

Although much smoke and wind here is being produced about this issue these are real dangers that tread upon the rights of the citizens.
They are an abomination to a free people.

hehe posted his message exactly nine minutes after the post he ridicules. It usually takes LA IndyMedia about five minutes to process a post. It probably took hehe two minutes to write his reponse. Therefore, hehe just happened to read an old threat two minutes after it posted upon.

The post he responded to is not the kind of post usually posted on LA IndyMedia.

The probability that hehe wrote the post he ridicules is somewhere in the neighorhood of 99.9999%

Central command has intercepted a message from the extra-terrestrial mothership. Upon a recent visit to Earth, they encountered Ned Lyle. Asked to take them to their leader, he led them to Jack Feldhaus. A quick assessment of Jack's intelligence led them to the conclusion that there is no intelligent life on Earth.

Colonization begins tomorrow.

Five minutes to process a post!?! What have you got, a 2800 baud modem?? Mine's like, click, 5 seconds later "Comment added", bang, it's up.

Five minutes. What a goober.

That post is exactly the kind of post usually posted on LA IndyMedia. That's why we hang out. Don't blame your "FEMA's gonna lock us all up and space aliens are gonna take over the world" wacko comrades on em. They're all yours.

You didn't even deny it. I also tested your math skills and you failed.

You are a moron.

Take us to your leader.

Wait, he's a moron too.

We have a few of them also.
The gun is loaded and ready to be used in the hands of a moron.
I would feel that one would need toilet paper to pick up anything
EX Lt. Col. Noth was involved in.
These EXecutive Orders are paralell to the laws passed by a royal pen towards the king's subjects.

By the way, was your leader behind the "Traitors of Tucson" website too? There are many people in Tucson that would like to know.

Do they still lynch people in Tucson?

Let's see, I posted this:

>HAHAHAHAHA
by hehe Tuesday September 23, 2003 10:29 PM
Thank You.
Thank you. Thank You. Thank You.

You said this:

>hehe revealed.
by Counter COINTELPRO Tuesday September 23, 2003 10:47 PM
It usually takes LA IndyMedia about five minutes to process a post. It probably took hehe two minutes to write his reponse.

I wrote this:

>HAHA
by hehe Tuesday September 23, 2003 10:54 PM
Five minutes to process a post!?! Mine's like, click, 5 seconds later "Comment added", bang, it's up.

-------------------------
Keep in mind: 5 minutes to process a post
------------------------

You wrote this:

>Wrong "hehe", you posted it.
by Joe Tuesday September 23, 2003 10:56 PM
You didn't even deny it. I also tested your math skills and you failed.

Two minutes later you answered me! 10:54 to 10:56. Two (2) minutes!

So much for "It usually takes LA IndyMedia about five minutes to process a post."

On another issue:

>>That's why we hang out. Don't blame your "FEMA's gonna lock us all up and space aliens are gonna take over the world" wacko comrades on me.

>You didn't even deny it.

What exactly does "don't blame your ...whacko comrades on me" mean in your world? I didn't post it. The whole post is uniquely Indymedia in nature. Indymedia worshippers denying it and trying to blame others for their own wackos is also another one of your traits. I've been on SF-IMC and LA-IMC long enough to know your tactics. This whacko is one of your own. Live with it.

You did post it. I have inside information concerning your IP address usage.

Cough it up then. Liar.

That's the info I have. IP addresses are not to be divulged, but the information that two are the same is not covered by the privacy agreement.

You've been bagged.

Recent pronouncements from the Bush Administration and national security initiatives put in place in the Reagan era could see internment camps and martial law in the United States.
When president Ronald Reagan was considering invading Nicaragua he issued a series of executive orders that provided the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) with broad powers in the event of a "crisis" such as "violent and widespread internal dissent or national opposition against a US military invasion abroad". They were never used.
But with the looming possibility of a US invasion of Iraq, recent pronouncements by President George Bush's domestic security chief, Tom Ridge, and an official with the US Civil Rights Commission should fire concerns that these powers could be employed or a de facto drift into their deployment could occur.
On July 20 the Detroit Free Press ran a story entitled "Arabs in US could be held, official warns". The story referred to a member of the US Civil Rights Commission who foresaw the possibility of internment camps for Arab Americans. FEMA has practised for such an occasion.
FEMA, whose main role is disaster response, is also responsible for handling US domestic unrest.
From 1982-84 Colonel Oliver North assisted FEMA in drafting its civil defence preparations. Details of these plans emerged during the 1987 Iran-Contra scandal.
They included executive orders providing for suspension of the constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the president and FEMA
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/1027497418339.html

>I've been told they match. That's the info I have.

That's what I figured. Thanx.

What is the Federal Emergency Management Agency? Simply put, it is the "secret government". This agency has powers and authority that go well beyond any other agency in the nation. What can FEMA do? It can suspend laws. It can move entire populations. It can arrest and detain citizens without a warrant and can hold them without a trial. It can seize property, food supplies, and transportation systems. And it can even suspend the Constitution of the United States.

When the first concept had been presented, its original mission was to assure the survivability of the United States Government in the event of a nuclear attack. It's secondary function was to be a Federal coordinating body during times of domestic disasters. These disasters consisted of earthquakes, floods, and hurricanes.

The "secret" black helicopters that are reported throughout the US, mainly in the West California, Washington, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and Colorado areas are flown by FEMA personnel. It has been given the responsibility for many new national disasters such as forest fires, home heating emergencies, refugee situations, riots, and emergency planning for nuclear and toxic incidents. It works together with the Sixth Army in the West.

A series of Executive Orders (EO) was used to create FEMA. It does not matter whether an EO is Constitutional or not, it becomes a law simply by being published in the Federal Registry. These orders go around Congress.
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm

> 2800 baud modem

well considering it's 2400 bps and actually 600 baud (has 4 bits per symbol)



So posting dumb article comments then replying to them yourself are we ?

Cheapen IMC with an "aliens are comming for us" flake comment followed by a post making fun of it - AND IMC somehow just because open publishing combined with anonymity allows such games.

Make one wonder just what threat open publishing is to the trolls and why they REALLY spend their time here..

If men use their liberty in such a way as to surrender their liberty, are they thereafter any
the less slaves? If people by a plebiscite elect a man despot over them, do
they remain free because the despotism was of their own making?
Herbert Spencer The New Toryism, 1884
In a revealing admission the Director of Resource Management for the U.S. Army confirmed the validity of a memorandum relating to the establishment of a civilian inmate labor program under development by the Department of the Army. The document states, "Enclosed for your review and comment is the draft Army regulation on civilian inmate labor utilization" and the procedure to "establish civilian prison camps on installations." Cherith Chronicle, June 1997.

Civilian internment camps or prison camps, more commonly known as concentration camps, have been the subject of much rumor and speculation during the past few years in America. Several publications have devoted space to the topic and many talk radio programs have dealt with the issue.

However, Congressman Henry Gonzales (D, Texas) clarified the question of the existence of civilian detention camps. In an interview the congressman stated, "the truth is yes - you do have these stand by provisions, and the plans are here...whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism...evoke the military and arrest Americans and put them in detention camps."
HISTORY OF CIVILIAN INTERNMENT CAMPS

The concept of mass internment camps was implemented during the decade of the 1930's when the idea was either integrated into national security planning or put to actual use in the world's three socialistic experiments - the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and the United States under Roosevelt.

On March 9, 1933, Adolph Hitler put his Dachau detention center into operation where thousands of his own countrymen were sent. (Source: Martin Gilber,The Holocaust). Stalin exterminated 7 to 10 million in his rural collectivization program from 1931-1933 and another 10 million in the purges of 1934-1939. It was this decade that the Soviet Gulag proved its worth. On August 24, 1939, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover met with FDR to develop a detention plan for the United States. Five months after this meeting, Hitler opened the Auschwitz detention center in Poland.

On August 3, 1948, J. Edgar Hoover met with Attorney General J. Howard McGrath to form a plan whereby President Truman could suspend constitutional liberties during a national emergency. The plan was code-named "Security Portfolio" and, when activated, it would authorize the FBI to summarily arrest up to 20,000 persons and place them in national security detention camps. Prisoners would not have the right to a court hearing or habeas corpus appeal. Meanwhile, "Security Portfolio" allowed the FBI to develop a watch list of those who would be detained, as well as detailed information on their physical appearance, family, place of work, etc. (David Burnham, Above the Law).
Two years later Congress approved the Internal Security Act of 1950 which contained a provision authorizing an emergency detention plan. Hoover was unhappy with this law because it did not suspend the constitution and it guaranteed the right to a court hearing (habeas corpus). "For two years, while the FBI continued to secretly establish the detention camps and work out detailed seizure plans for thousands of individuals, Hoover kept badgering...[Attorney General McGrath for] official permission to ignore the 1950 law and carry on with the more ferocious 1948 program. On November 25, 1952, the attorney general...caved in to Hoover." ibid.

Congress repealed the Emergency Detention Act of 1950 more than twenty years later in 1971. Seemingly the threat of civilian internment in the United States was over, but not in reality. The Senate held hearings in December, 1975, revealing the ongoing internment plan which had never been terminated. The report, entitled, "Intelligence Activities, Senate Resolution 21", disclosed the covert agenda. In a series of documents, memos and testimony by government informants, the picture emerged of the designs by the federal government to monitor, infiltrate, arrest and incarcerate a potentially large segment of American society.
http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/8/internment.htm

" Rumors are all that are needed to instigate an investigation, or even lay charges. New anti-terrorist law in both Canada and the United States allows state security forces to carry out raids on individuals based on nothing more than hearsay evidence. "


And I turned in FAR more than hearsay on kobe !


Recent IP lists that trace back to him, along with screen captures of the death threats and the URL's, plus history lists with URL's along with cache hits..

Nothing from DeVoy - all new info..

Disagreement is the enemy in California
Imagine my recent astonishment as I learned of laws, one after the other, that did not allow me to speak my piece. Consider my alarm when I determined that federal agencies were in place to put me away if I should get too feisty. Picture my dropping jaw when I read the following quote:
The Deputy Attorney General of California commented at a conference that anyone who attacks the State, even verbally, becomes a revolutionary and an enemy by definition. Louis Guiffreda, who was head of FEMA, stated that "legitimate violence is integral to our form of government, for it is from this source that we can continue to purge our weaknesses."
http://www.uhuh.com/control/campsum.htm

Bytes per second isn't accurate either.

The protocol uses start and stop bits, so bytes don't translate directly to bits per second.

Then starting with ECC modems (MNP4/V.42) the start & stop bits are stripped away plus compression (MNP5/V.42.bis, along with MNP 7,10 and now V.92) makes the byte per bits vary quite dramaticly depending on the data.

(I've worked extensively with modems over the years including modifying them and even building digital modems from scratch)

I hate to be picky but
F.E.M.A. [Federal Emergency Management Agency] has been authorized for the past 15 years by Presidential Executive Orders to confiscate ALL PROPERTY from the American People, separate families in the current 43 internment camps [already built and operational by the way, 5 of which are located in Georgia. The largest can confine somewhere on the order of 100,000 American citizens], called relocation camps by the 'government', for assignment to work camps; declares martial law and TOTALLY OVER-RIDES the U.S. Constitution
http://www.posse-comitatus.org/govt/FEMA-Camp.html

hex; Why ARE you here?

>> 2800 baud modem
well considering it's 2400 bps and actually 600 baud (has 4 bits per symbol)
So posting dumb article comments then replying to them yourself are we ?

I don't keep up with that stuff.

And no, the dumb article about space aliens wasn't me, though you and your ilk would like it to be. It's typical Indymedia. I just enjoyed the laugh. Still am. I'm confident others are, too.

Wanna explain to your buddy that it doesn't take 5 minutes for a post to "process" on Indymedia?

What I have noticed is that anytime one of your conspiracy theory comrade goobers get loose from the nuthouse, all of you rush to bury it up with post after post after post after post after post.

Makes one wonder just what threat open publishing is to the conspiracy theorists and why they REALLY find it necessary to cover things up.

Shocking Photographic Proof!

http://www.noveltynet.org/content/paranormal/www.brotherblue.org/datruth/etcoming.htm

Photographic Evidence Of the Space Alien Invasion

http://www.noveltynet.org/content/paranormal/www.brotherblue.org/datruth/photos.htm

"The birth of FEMA's dark side originated in secret during the Reagan administration. FEMA's domestic disaster management role was then broadened to allow it to practice for the imposition of martial law and the internment of so-called aliens and radicals. During this period, a joint exercise was held with the military to prepare for such a contingency, Rex-84. Concurrently, FEMA began assembling files on those whom the Agency might target. . . . The exercise's purpose was to test military capabilities in anticipation of `civil disturbances, major demonstrations', incidentally illustrating the evolution of civil defense into civil control."
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/AOPof911p10.html

I've seen all this before, so it's nothing new to me.

I saw a technical inaccuracy involving some troll posting both a flake post about aliens AND the reply making fun of it *plus IMC*

But otherwise it appeared DeVoy posted (the "@") so I was curious to see whether it was spoofed or not..

(what drew me to the thread, I dislike starting new threads and tend to just join a discussion in progress otherwise it causes older threads to "jump up" which take time to load especially if you are *on dial-up using modems* - the huge thread where the comment on kobe would normally go has become a pain - at least while D/L'ing radio shows at the same time hahaa)

well now for something completely different
FEMA
A Miami Herald article on July 5, 1987, reported that the former FEMA director Louis Guiffrida's deputy, John Brinkerhoff, handled the martial law portion of the planning. The plan was said to be similar to one Mr Giuffrida had developed earlier to combat "a national uprising by black militants". It provided for the detention "of at least 21million American Negroes"' in "assembly centres or relocation camps".

Today Mr Brinkerhoff is with the highly influential Anser Institute for Homeland Security.

Following a request by the Pentagon in January that the US military be allowed the option of deploying troops on American streets, the institute in February published a paper by Mr Brinkerhoff arguing the legality of this.

He alleged that the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which has long been accepted as prohibiting such deployments, had simply been misunderstood and misapplied.
http://www.rense.com/general27/martial.htm

"The post he responded to is not the kind of post usually posted on LA IndyMedia. "

Concerning the article referenced and without getting into your somewhat shoddy time ananlysis, I can only say this:

This is PRECISELY the kind of article posted on this forum.

Typical alarmist, fear based conspiracy delusions.

We've been treated to articles about the "government" trying to kill us with Chemtrails.

We've been warned of secret Mossad agents running around New York with bombs in moving vans.

We've thrilled to see the nefarious plot of 9-11 exposed and show Bush et.al to be the "fascists" they are.

We've shuddered at the awesome power of the Bilderberg group and their strangle hold on us.

We've seen how Diebold is merely a front for the "nazis" in power and how their voting machines are clearly rigged.

Make no mistake, this is EXACTLY the type of nonsense that routinely finds it's way onto this site.

but you won't find me posting as different handles or making new ones up as I go. Naturally this means I wouldn't be wasting my time posting in-accurate information - matter of fact I spend time trying to keep info other's post accurate on the main IMC...

If you do a search on it for "Hex anon" you'll see what I mean...

I have a solid record of doing exactly what I'm doing now - posting as one person/handle *so people will know me* and mostly going after technical in-accuracies. We have a few trolls of our own there like bilder, omega, now a couple of mental cases (mind control is everywhere) posters, a robert dawn, etc

They tend to post in spurts - you know - like it was pointed out you did above..

Including IMC in the insults when *open publishing* is what enables it is a dead giveaway.

Trolls will be trolls - no ?

Los Angeles Times

Wednesday, 14 August, 2002

Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft's announced desire for camps for U.S. citizens he
deems to be "enemy combatants" has moved him from merely being a political
embarrassment to being a constitutional menace.

Ashcroft's plan, disclosed last week but little publicized, would allow him
to order the indefinite incarceration of U.S. citizens and summarily strip
them of their constitutional rights and access to the courts by declaring
them enemy combatants.

The proposed camp plan should trigger immediate congressional hearings and
reconsideration of Ashcroft's fitness for this important office. Whereas
Al Qaeda is a threat to the lives of our citizens, Ashcroft has become
clear and present threat to our liberties.

The camp plan was forged at an optimistic time for Ashcroft's small inner
circle, which has been carefully watching two test cases to see whether
this vision could become a reality. The cases of Jose Padilla and Yaser
Esam Hamdi will determine whether U.S. citizens can be held without charges
and subject to the arbitrary and unchecked authority of the government.
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm

Hex >I saw a technical inaccuracy involving some troll posting both a flake post about aliens AND the reply making fun of it *plus IMC*

No, you didn't, you LIAR.

Joe >That's the info I have. IP addresses are not to be divulged, but the information that two are the same is not covered by the privacy agreement.

Since you both seem to have this same "evidence", I'm giving you permission to post your "evidence". Since you *claim* it's me, and you *claim* to be identifying my IP as evidence, then you'll know it's me writing you right now saying it's OK for you to prove it. Divulge it! Go for it!

> Mossad agents running around New York with bombs in moving vans.


even mainstream newspaper and TV news backs this up, but again in "fresca blind 4 - the teaser" Now Showing !

I'm sure if you'll deny even *live video of the same scene* like you did with the pictures of Jews against zionism. And the USS Liberty's *own crew in thier own words with that ACTUAL radio traffic from a mainstream TV SHOW* was - "something I made up"...

I made up all those pictures too, with what was it - photostacker, no photoshop.. (I suppose the fact that the pics are on the *websites who's URL's I showed* and they have a *live video of the exact same protest scene too* - I must have hacked those websites and made up the video using - ???)


All facts are swept away to fit fresca's beliefs and *we're* the one's who are paranoid ?



> Diebold / their voting machines are clearly rigged.

I have the god damned software myself, and although I started to go over it a working group already did and they have PROOF the software is not only full of security holes but phones home and has a backdoor.

whoops there's that PROOF again.

nothing's true - never mind, rest easy fresca !




> nonsense


collected info from mainstream media, pics from websites with the URL's shown, live video, live interviews with the actual crewmen, the actual diebold software

it's all "nonsense" - fresca has the only golden key to the truth..


RE: ashcroft

I've found dirt on him - seems he was openly supporting a mid-east *terrorist organization* right up to the day the state department busted them.

(recent - mid aug)

can anyone say hypocrite ?

Those who believe in conspiracy theories can never believe anything other than what the conspiracy tells them to believe. To the conspiracy theorist, any evidences presented which disprove the conspiracy theory is just further evidence that the conspiracy theory itself is true, otherwise why would there be others trying to prove it is not true.

and now for the showtime

FEMA (and then some )

c1998, WorldNetDaily.com
For several years now I have been getting all sorts of wild reports about "Government Internment Camps." I have generally dismissed these rumblings as classic right-wing paranoia, extrapolation of facts not yet in evidence, or creative writing. However, recently, additional information has been revealed which lends credibility to the myriad concerns which have been expressed. Hey, even paranoids get chased.

The U.S. Army director of resource management has confirmed the validity of a memorandum relating to the establishment of a civilian inmate labor program under development by the Department of Army. The document states, "Enclosed for your review and comment is the draft Army regulation on civilian inmate labor utilization" and the procedure to "establish civilian prison camps on installations."

Civilian internment camps or prison camps, often referred to as concentration camps, have been the subject of much rumor and speculation during the past several years in this country. Various publications, Internet threads and some radio talk programs have focused on the issue.

However, I found it significant when Rep. Henry Gonzalez, D-TX, clarified the question of the existence of these civilian detention camps. In an interview Hank said, "the truth is yes -- you do have these standby provisions, and the plans are here ... whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism ... evoke the military and arrest Americans and put them in detention camps." Heck, we did it before (to Americans of Japanese descent), we could do it again.

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/new.html]

zang!
that was wrong.
URL got crossed. But hey, that's intertainment.
Back to FEMA

> The Senate report also revealed the existence of the Master Search Warrant
> (MSW) and the Master Arrest Warrant (MAW) which are currently in force. The
> MAW document, authorized by the United States Attorney General, directs the
> head of the FBI to: "Arrest persons whom I deem dangerous to the public
> peace and safety. These persons are to be detained and confined until
> further order." The MSW also instructs the FBI Director to "search certain
> premises where it is believed that there may be found contraband,
> prohibited articles, or other materials in violation of the Proclamation of
> the President of the United States." It includes such items as firearms,
> shortwave radio receiving sets, cameras, propaganda materials, printing
> presses, mimeograph machines, membership and financial records of
> organizations or groups that have been declared subversive, or may be
> hereafter declared subversive by the Attorney General."
http://www.tpromo.com/gk/american/gard_1.htm

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3033ashcroft_mek.html


Ashcroft Terror Links Expose 'Patriot Act' Hoax

by Michele Steinberg

Attorney General John Ashcroft was "visibly angered," reported Reuters on Aug. 21, when a supporter of Democratic Party Presidential pre-candidate Lyndon LaRouche in Detroit, Michigan exposed Ashcroft's collusion with Vice President Dick Cheney in orchestrating a "new 9/11" terrorist atrocity to justify ramming through further police state measures known as the the "Patriot II" and "VICTORY" Acts. The Detroit Free Press reported that the LaRouche's associate likened Cheney's and Ashcroft's use of terrorism to the way that "Hitler used the fire of the Reichstag "the German Parliament building" to seize power in Germany in the 1930s."

Outside the Ashcroft meeting in Detroit, a high-spirited LaRouche Youth Movement rally distributed thousands of copies of an Aug. 9 statement by LaRouche called, "When Cheney Spoke of Terrorists, Which Terrorists, Dick?" LaRouche warned, "Cheney has promised an early terrorist attack on the U.S.A., comparable in political effect to that of Sept. 11, 2001. He does so at a time when his own failing political position requires some lucky such event to put him firmly back in the position he had prior to the recent developments in the Iraq war. He claims to be the expert in such matters. Is he bluffing, or do his advisers know something relevant?"

Cheney's speech promising a new terrorist act in the United States was given on July 24 at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI). It is no accident that on Aug. 19, Ashcroft spoke at the same AEI to launch phase two of Cheney's terror tour, a 10-day, 20-city Ashcroft road-show promoting new police state laws.

There's one thing wrong about this picture of the anti-terrorism crusade by John Ashcroft, he is on record as supporting, protecting and promoting one of the largest terrorist groups operating inside the United States, the Mujahideen-e-Khalq (MEK), also known as the National Council of Resistance in Iran (NCRI) and the National Liberation Army (NLA). Ashcroft's game of support for the MEK ended abruptly on Aug. 15, when the State Department and Treasury Department closed down the offices of the MEK/NCRI and froze its bank accounts. A State Department release said that the MEK/NCRI "function as part of the MEK and have supported the MEK's acts of terrorism."

According to a well-informed Washington source, who spent many years on Capitol Hill, Ashcroft can *and should be* dumped, held accountable for supporting the MEK, a terrorist group that assassinated U.S. military personnel and defense contractors in the early 1970s in Iran; fought for Saddam Hussein against Iran in the Iran-Iraq war; carried out simultaneous bombings of Iranian embassies and offices in 13 cities in 1992; fought against U.S. troops in Iraq during the March 2003 invasion; and whose members and leader, Miryam Rajavi, were arrested in France in June 2003 for plotting terrorist attacks against a series of embassies in Western Europe. More than $1.3 million was seized in the French raids.


Bush Named MEK in National Emergency

The official record of U.S. law enforcement and intelligence agencies shows that John Ashcroft had no excuse to protect the MEK/NCRI, it was a coverup. And the "Big Lie" spread by the disinformation specialists of the Cheney cabal, that the MEK was only deemed a terrorist organization "in 1997" by the Clinton Administration in order to kiss up to the Iranian leadership, is a hoax! Investigations by EIR into official U.S. records show repeated references to the MEK and all its front groups in the State Department's Patterns of Global Terrorism going back to the early 1990s. After the Sept. 11, 2001 irregular warfare attacks, which resulted in the Cheney cabal's coup d'état over the U.S. government, the reports about the MEK's terrorism were even more explicit.

On Sept. 23, 2001, President George W. Bush signed Executive Order 13224, which found a "continuing and immediate threat of further attacks on the United States" and declared "a national emergency to deal with that threat." Hundreds of organizations and individuals were named in an annex to 13224, which called for "Blocking Property and Prohibiting Transactions with Persons who Commit, Threaten to Commit, or Support Terrorism." EO 13224's "national emergency" served as the basis for Ashcroft to round up thousands of Arab and Muslim targets in the United States, both citizens and non-citizens, holding many of them incommunicado and without charges. On Oct. 31, 2001, the MEK/NCRI/NLA were added to the list of terrorist groups annexed to EO 13224, along with the other names under which the group operates: the Mujahideen-e-Khalq Organization (MKO), and Peoples Mujahideen of Iran (PMOI).

Yet, for the last 21 months, from Oct. 31, 2001 until Aug, 15, 2003, when the State Dept. and Treasury closed down the MEK/NCRI, Ashcroft did nothing against the MEK's operations in the United States, despite the fact that the group operated openly in Washington.

Indeed, the special treatment afforded the MEK by Ashcroft, Cheney, and the neo-conservative cabal in the Pentagon around Paul Wolfowitz and Doug Feith, could yet become another scandal of the magnitude of the "yellowcake uranium" hoax.

As the Cheney cabal and Ashcroft often repeat, invading Iraq was necessary to protect Americans from terrorism. In fact, with no "weapons of mass destruction" found in Iraq, the only fall-back the Bush Administration has to defend its illegal and unjust war, is Iraq's links to terrorism. But on Sept. 12, 2002, when the Bush Administration released its "White Paper" on Iraq, to back up Bush's anti-Iraq speech to the UN General Assembly, the only major concrete charge about a terrorist organization was against the MEK. The White Paper, called "A Decade of Deception and Defiance," says, "Iraq shelters terrorist groups including the Mujahideen-e-Khalq Organization, which has used terrorist violence against Iran and in the 1970s was responsible for killing several U.S. military personnel and U.S. civilians."

That snippet hardly does justice to the MEK's bloody record. According to the Federation of American Scientists report of Aug. 18, 2003, "During the 1970s, the MEK killed U.S. military personnel and U.S. civilians working on defense projects in Tehran.... In 1981, the MEK detonated bombs in the head office of the Islamic Republic Party and the Premier's office ... killing some 70 high ranking officials.... In 1991, it assisted the Government of Iraq in suppressing the Shia and Kurdish uprisings." According to a 1994 State Department report, "In April 1992, the MEK carried out nearly simultaneous attacks on Iranian Embassies in 13 different countries in North America, Europe, and the Pacific Rim."

Not only does the group have a long record of stone-cold terrorism, but both the Washington Post and Le Figaro described the MEK, run by Massoud Rajavi, its founder and supreme commander, and his wife Miryam, as a cult. Gruesome evidence of this cult allegation was amply provided in June, when several members of the MEK in Europe set themselves on fire in protest *one of them died* until Miryam Rajavi was freed.

Ashcroft's 'Passionate' Support

With this record, it is incredible but true that in mid-April, the MEK again landed on its feet when its weapons, including artillery and tanks, were returned to its forces in Iraq by the U.S. Occupation authority. The move reportedly came from the Defense Department's neo-conservative cabal *Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Doug Feith* which wanted the MEK to be its "mercenary" team, a secret army organization for war against Iran, without the knowledge of Congress, or perhaps even the President.

This adventure, to allow the MEK to keep its arms, was rapidly ended by Bush's National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. But, Washington-based investigators have told EIR that there is much more to the MEK's relationship to the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans.

The Pentagon neo-cons were just continuing Ashcroft's "passionate" support, which, as described by Slate magazine, goes back to at least the late 1990's. Ashcroft's activism for the MEK reached new heights in 2000, after MEK leader Mahnaz Samadi was arrested for belonging to a terrorist group, as she tried to enter the United States from Canada in December 1999, during a "high alert" for terrorism around the Y2K New Year's Day. In May and June 2000, Ashcroft and former New Jersey Senator Robert Torricelli led the Congressional effort to pressure Janet Reno to release Samadi. Ironically, totalitarian Ashcroft lambasted Reno, according to the Washington Times, for detaining Samadi, whom Ashcroft praised as a "human rights" defender. It went further. Newsweek reports that in September 2000, Ashcroft sent a "statement of solidarity" that was "read aloud to the cheering crowd" at an MEK/NCRI rally at the UN protesting the visit by Iranian President Khatami. The NCRI's spokesman in Washington, Alireza Jafarzadeh, is quoted by Newsweek saying "he had 'several' meetings with Ashcroft aides" about Samadi, and he considers Ashcroft to be "a supporter of his group."

Another major MEK defender is Islam-basher Daniel Pipes, who says the MEK is a valuable ally which stopped its anti-American terrorism "decades ago," and whose "only violent actions have been directed against the Iranian regime" for the last 15 years. As of Aug. 22, reports were that Pipes is to be awarded a "recess appointment" by Bush to the U.S. Institute for Peace, in order to bypass the Senate's blocking his appointment.

Such an appointment would be another danger to the country, given Pipes' support for John Ashcroft's terrorist gang.

Nevertheless, in the public and media mind, FEMA is simply a helpful ¾ though sometimes slow-moving ¾ service organization. It shows up after earthquakes and floods to rescue stranded puppies. It parcels out money so communities can rebuild.

Maybe. But FEMA isn’t, and never has been, an agency to aid average Americans.

FEMA’s chief ¾ but largely secret ¾ mission has always been "Continuity of Government." Its job is to make sure that federal control continues at all costs. This has led to construction of dozens of secret underground bunkers, capable of sustaining life for the select few allowed into them. It has led to FEMA budgets in which millions are allocated to disaster relief while billions go to unspecified "other purposes." And that’s not to mention the unknown sums in black-budget appropriations the agency receives via the Defense Department.

For many years, FEMA denied the existence of its primary bunker, Mount Weather in West Virginia. Even after admitting it was there, they would never disclose its purpose ¾ even to their ostensible bosses in Congress. At 1975 hearings, retired Air Force General Leslie W. Bray, director of FEMA’s predecessor, the Federal Preparedness Agency, stonewalled a U.S. Senate subcommittee, insisting, "I am not at liberty to describe precisely what is the role and the mission and the capability that we have at Mount Weather, or at any other precise location."
http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/femaroad.htm

Nevertheless, in the public and media mind, FEMA is simply a helpful ¾ though sometimes slow-moving ¾ service organization. It shows up after earthquakes and floods to rescue stranded puppies. It parcels out money so communities can rebuild.

Maybe. But FEMA isn’t, and never has been, an agency to aid average Americans.

FEMA’s chief ¾ but largely secret ¾ mission has always been "Continuity of Government." Its job is to make sure that federal control continues at all costs. This has led to construction of dozens of secret underground bunkers, capable of sustaining life for the select few allowed into them. It has led to FEMA budgets in which millions are allocated to disaster relief while billions go to unspecified "other purposes." And that’s not to mention the unknown sums in black-budget appropriations the agency receives via the Defense Department.

For many years, FEMA denied the existence of its primary bunker, Mount Weather in West Virginia. Even after admitting it was there, they would never disclose its purpose ¾ even to their ostensible bosses in Congress. At 1975 hearings, retired Air Force General Leslie W. Bray, director of FEMA’s predecessor, the Federal Preparedness Agency, stonewalled a U.S. Senate subcommittee, insisting, "I am not at liberty to describe precisely what is the role and the mission and the capability that we have at Mount Weather, or at any other precise location."
http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/femaroad.htm

(ashcroft is spearheading the effort to have this lawyer face 40 years for telling the relatives of an old blind
Egyption cleric who was charged for basicly nothing, that he had changed his mind about non-violence after what they did to him sice he's isolated here and they won't let anyone see him other than those relatives in *Egypt* which *they refuse to grant visa's to*.

She being his lawyer is his *only contact with the outside world* because of this.. So ashcroft went on the david letterman show and demonized her, while trying to convict her under aiding terrorist laws he himself pushed through congress and which (see the article above) he himself directly, openly and in tangible ways, supports a whole network of terrorist groups !

he's openly flaunting the very laws he pushed through while also at the same time witch hunting this lawyer just doing her job for a man they are torturing !

here's more info about the *media* doing thier part twisting reality by what they leave out and don't print;



Sent to The Nation but not published. Also sent to Z Magazine and The Progressive.

Last Sunday the New York Times carried a politically disturbing article about the courageous defense attorney, Lynne F. Stewart, who has been indicted by the U.S. Government simply for representing her client. Readers of The Nation need to understand the distortions of that slick article, in which the real politics of the case was buried in a profusion of irrelevant personal data about Stewart and her humanist husband, Ralph Poynter.

I first met Lynne and Ralph in 1967, at a meeting of the Teachers' Freedom Party, headed by Poynter, a meeting I attended as the head of the Parent-Community council of District 13 (in northern Brooklyn). Our organizations later joined to work against the central Board of Education, the United Federation of Teachers, the elitist media, government on all levels, and a host of local political hacks of all types. What we opposed was their effort to control the minds of our children and to ensure that the enormous school budget would remain in central hands and so would never be used for real education.

In this struggle for better schools, it was Poynter who first used the term community control. This was not, as the Times implied, a trivial local struggle long since forgotten, for it went beyond the issue of education to that of the decentralization of political authority in general. That has been a fundamental conflict between leftist and rightist political thinking throughout history, with the leftists (progressives or radicals) claiming the human right to control one's own institutions and resources, and the rightists (liberals or conservatives) inhumanly insisting that everything in society must be controlled absolutely by an elite class of ultra-rich selfists.

Soon afterwards, the unified campaign against us was put in the hands of McGeorge Bundy, who was regularly called upon by three Presidents to deal with the real hotspots of the world, such as Vietnam and the Middle East. So if the old saw is true, that we are best judged by who our enemies are, then his involvement, combined with the unrelenting opposition of Stewart and Poynter to sick rightist leaders like Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, the Bushes and Ashcroft tells us that they are among the most honorable and worthy people of our time.

The next distortion about the Lynne Stewart case is that it is somehow related to her client, Sheik Rahman. But in fact it is only abut the Republican program to subvert the Bill of Rights, and to establish a fascist Department of Justice with new powers of intrusion and oppression. Now even conservative "libertarians" like Alan Dershowitz are supporting the right of our government to torture its prisoners, as if our constitutional right not to be cruelly punished was somehow wrong. Various attorneys have suggested that anywhere from four to six of the Bill's articles are being attacked in this case by the Justice Department, which is controlled by a President and Attorney General who are both pathological conservative extremists and religionists.

Ashcroft picked his target carefully, choosing the attorney least likely to win broad support from other attorneys, and one who represented an unpopular client, a person who is ethnically hated by every Zionist in America. His plan is to use the courts and the elitist media to divide and conquer us all, so that we will forget to defend our constitutional rights. Then, at home as abroad, no one will have any protection against rightist extremists like him and his boss.

Finally, it is suggested in the elitist media that it is inconsistent for a champion of human rights like Stewart to defend a political prisoner, one whom they feel can be described as a narrow-minded religionist, a so-called "terrorist", and an antifeminist to boot. But this distortion sidesteps the real issue. Genuine leftists do not support the Arab people today because of their religion, their social customs, or the tactics that they are forced to use to defend themselves against their more powerful oppressors. No, true leftists support the Arab people in spite of those things, solely because they are no being oppressed or targeted for oppression by the Anglo-American Axis, which includes Israel and now apparently even Russia. And the real purpose of that oppression is to steal their land, liberty, sovereignty, and natural resources.

Our Middle-Eastern policy is not about the acquisition of oil, for we can always buy it from the sellers. It is instead, as the Iraqis say, about the control of all the oil resources of the world. That is what "regime change' is really all about. And under our Big-Oil President and Vice-President, that control is to be stolen by force, by terrorism in fact, and our own national treasury is to be robbed to make that international terrorism possible. But ultimately, as even the tepid Al Gore now warns us, we will all pay the heavy cost of our present government's insanity.

The Antifederalists, the genuine leftists of more than two centuries ago, warned that our elitist constitution would only create another Roman Empire. Well, under the control of rightist liberals and conservatives, our nation has indeed become inhuman, immoral, and a more terrible aggressor than Rome ever was. And that development is what all genuine American leftists oppose - the present rightist campaign against all Arab nations and its intended extension to world domination. Big Oil wants war, this we know. But why should we want it? That is unfathomable, almost too sick to believe.

Lynne Stewart and Ralph Poynter have always been acutely aware of all these issues, and that is why they are both the targets of the government and the elitists media. But, contrary to the Times, Stewart and Poynter are not alone. They have always been genuine leftists, and so they are still fighting with many other humanists for genuine democracy and justice for all.

FEMA
Civilian Internmant Camps
Space Aliens
COINTELPRO
Iran-Contra
Black Helicopters
Hitler
J. Edgar Hoover
Reagan
Bush
Ashcroft
Master Search Warrant
Mount Weather

Of course.
How did I not see?
It's all so clear now!

They are softening us up for the next hit, folks. They know it's going to happen because They are probably going to do it---just like They did 9/11. When the U.S./U.K. attack on Iraq radicalizes a billion Muslim people around the world, though, and paints a bull's eye on all of Western Civilization (including Japan), maybe the terrorism will be real at that point. Either way, we are about to move to the next phase of this show, and that will probably involve internment camps in the U.S
http://www.cryptogon.com/2003_01_05_blogarchive.html

You'll be able to fly.
Baby, I'm your man.

> FEMA
Civilian Internmant Camps
COINTELPRO
Iran-Contra
Master Search Warrant


Freedom of information requests and the Church committee, all
actual government documents... (I have all this information myself - the actual documents)



> Ashcroft

Reuters news service


hello are we blind and dumb with ADD yet ?

maybe if we reduced it to really short sound bites delivered smoothly by a paid professional with commercial breaks ?

"hello are we blind and dumb with ADD yet ?
maybe if we reduced it to really short sound bites delivered smoothly by a paid professional with commercial breaks ?"


No way!
I commend you.
You did a great job.

FEMA
Civilian Internmant Camps
Space Aliens
COINTELPRO
Iran-Contra
Black Helicopters
Hitler
J. Edgar Hoover
Reagan
Bush
Ashcroft
Master Search Warrant
Mount Weather

It's all so clear now!

Space aliens ha ha ha
If only they were good to eat.
FEMA

this is a war, and we will win. We have the numbers and if pissed
there will be a united front with all the bull shit put aside.
claro?

Legends were born
Surrounding mysterious lights
Seen in the sky
Flashing

"Claro" is Spanish.
I'm not speaking Spanish.
"Chiaro" is the word I want.

FEMA
Civilian Internmant Camps
Space Aliens
COINTELPRO
Iran-Contra
Black Helicopters
Hitler
J. Edgar Hoover
Reagan
Bush
Ashcroft
Master Search Warrant
Mount Weather



and please do spice it up with discrediting flake shit then post again discrediting

FEMA
Civilian Internmant Camps
Space Aliens
COINTELPRO
Iran-Contra
Black Helicopters
Hitler
J. Edgar Hoover
Reagan
Bush
Ashcroft
Master Search Warrant
Mount Weather

They all interconnect.
You, Hex, helped demonstrate that.
Just start at the top and read down.
It's all so clear!

Since WWII, the U.S. government has had contingency plans in
preparation for a large scale disaster or attack. However, during
the last twenty-five years--beginning with civil unrest at the
height of the Vietnam War--the government's plans have
increasingly on focused ways of controlling political dissent.

On October 30, 1969 President Richard Nixon issued Executive
Order 11490, "Assigning Emergency Preparedness Functions to
Federal Departments and Agencies," which consolidated some 21
operative Executive Orders and two Defense Mobilization Orders
issued between 1951 and 1966 on a variety of emergency
preparedness matters.

In 1976 President Gerald Ford ordered the Federal Emergency
Preparedness Agency (FEPA) to develop plans to establish
government control of the mechanisms of productions and
distribution of energy sources, wages and salaries, credit and
the flow of money in American financial institutions in any
(heretofore undefined) "national emergency." This
Executive Order (EO 11921) also indicated that, when a state of
emergency is declared by the President, Congress could not review
the matter for a period of six months.

Even arch-conservative activist Howard J. Ruff was quick to point
out that, since the enactment of EO 11490, "The only thing
standing between us and a dictatorship is the good character of
the President and the lack of a crisis severe enough that the
public would stand still for it."
http://www.skepticfiles.org/socialis/fema_law.htmocialis/fema_law.htm

Never have so many fools (hexie, spooker, etc. ) typed so much bullshit about such nonsensical theories as in this thread.

All the bases have been covered. The bait was tossed and the fools bit.

So hexie, how's that Diebold backdoor comin' along?

What a fucking dolt.

fresca - blind 5, with insults NOW SHOWING

Diebold info can be found here:

http://211.117.160.48:8000/s/lists/index.html

The stuff about illegal vote fixing they don't want seen


http://www.blackboxvoting.com/


(part of the report from a company assigned to check the software;)


Email from Diebold's election systems group / the latest discovery could explain why Gore lost in Florida.

A discussion takes place in January 2001 concerning the fact that Volusia County, Florida (where else?) came up with -16,022 votes for Gore. Yes, re-read that, Gore was awarded NEGATIVE VOTES.


2.5. Overall Risk Rating

"The system, as implemented in policy, procedure, and technology, is at high risk of compromise. Application of the listed mitigations will reduce the risk to the system. Any computerized voting system implemented using the present set of policies and procedures would require these same mitigations."


Folks, that last paragraph says it all. No matter how Diebold wants to spin it, their equipment, as deployed was "at high risk of compromise".

as you can see it's not ME - it's several sources *using diebold's own stolen e-mail and database, along with the software.

I also have the URL for the entire original series of software discs which I've downloaded. I didn't need to take any action because *other people already did*

It's not me that's the dolt kobe, it's you...

Once more I present hard data while you pound the table...

The facilities that you are seeing being constructed around the Unitied States are HILCs or Higher Intelligence Logistic Centers. These facitlties have been in the planning since the late 1950's. They are going to be used to recieve and coordinate the intergration of higher intellegence beings from other galaxies in our solar system. It was a deal made long ago with leaders of the most powerful organizations in the world (Black Horizin 4 and UNTL-8. In trade for allowing the "invaders" into our country and duping the most powerful governments in the world to go along with it, the powerful men in these organizations were given very advance technology from the aliens that would make them billions of dollars. With this technology they set up business like Microsoft, Honeywell, every single defense contractors, etc. They have come up with cover stories like "Operstion Garden Plot" and "Cable Splice" to dupe people into thinking that these facilities are for people that will be incarcerated FEMA in the event of martial law. The NEW WORLD ORDOR, that many are accepting with open arms, is the real threat. This new government will be run by the aliens. Once the NWO comes to power the aliens will begin to arrive by the millions and they will be processed in these facilities that are not only in the United States-- they are being constructed everywhere. The Aliens will first be our friends. After a short time the aliens will crush us killing most of the population (the week, the elderly, the retarded,Etc.) the ones that they do not kill will be made slaves to the aliens. We are in the end days on planet earth as we know it. The time is here--- RESIST RESIST RESIST

for your silly repost. Doing a good job there.

FEMA
Jonathan Turley is a professor of constitutional and public-interest law at George Washington University Law School in D.C. He is also a defense attorney in national security cases and other matters, writes for a number of publications, and is often on television. He and I occasionally exchange leads on civil liberties stories, but I learn much more from him than he does from me.
For example, a Jonathan Turley column in the national edition of the August 14 Los Angeles Times ("Camps for Citizens: Ashcroft's Hellish Vision") begins:

"Attorney General John Ashcroft's announced desire for camps for U.S. citizens he deems to be 'enemy combatants' has moved him from merely being a political embarrassment to being a constitutional menace." Actually, ever since General Ashcroft pushed the U.S. Patriot Act through an overwhelmingly supine Congress soon after September 11, he has subverted more elements of the Bill of Rights than any attorney general in American history.
http://www.geocities.com/theawakeningnews/Police_State.html

"It's not me that's the dolt kobe, it's you... "

Still think that all of us who realize what an ass you are are all just one person huh? Hey, whatever gets you through the day.

Thanks for for of your conspiracy theory lessons though.

That the Diebold machines, or any system for that matter is obviously open to some sort of potential breach means what?

Does it mean that a breach occured? Of course not. Although, that may explain how Gore got as many votes nationwide as he did. Hmmm. Maybe there's something to this.

It's a cold scary world for you, huh?

Let my laughter at your delusions warm you my poltroon.

When FEMA starts placing people in internment camps, will it be everyone, or just progressives and anarchists?

fresca blind 6, the re-run now showing


> Does it mean that a breach occured? Of course not.


A NEGATIVE count was rendered, diebold's own e-mail shows them discussing this, but no nothings wrong

I posted all the facts and URL's you can download the data they are suing the website to keep us from seeing it from the mirrors I provided URL's to and SEE FOR YOURSELF, their OWN INTERNAL DOCUMENTS


but no, once more it's denial at all costs..

A total waste of time to deal with a time sink who's only function is to DENY EVERYTHING ALWAYS, even photographs backed by video...

The list of factual data keeps getting longer...

All we get are short sound bite insults like "conspiracy theory" when FOIA documents and so on are presented.

FOIA = conspiracy theory

I see.

Who ever goes willingly. Remember Chile.


unrestrained by traditional values."
Zbigniew Brezinsky National advisor to Jimmy Carter

Some people have referred to it as the "secret government" of the United States. It is not an elected body, it does not involve itself in public disclosures, and it even has a quasi-secret budget in the billions of dollars. This government organization has more power than the President of the United States or the Congress, it has the power to suspend laws, move entire populations, arrest and detain citizens without a warrant and hold them without trial, it can seize property, food supplies, transportation systems, and can suspend the Constitution.

Not only is it the most powerful entity in the United States, but it was not even created under Constitutional law by the Congress. It was a product of a Presidential Executive Order. No, it is not the U.S. military nor the Central Intelligence Agency, they are subject to Congress. The organization is called FEMA, which stands for the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Originally conceived in the Richard Nixon Administration, it was refined by President Jimmy Carter and given teeth in the Ronald Reagan and George Bush Administrations.

FEMA had one original concept when it was created, to assure the survivability of the United States government in the event of a nuclear attack on this nation. It was also provided with the task of being a federal coordinating body during times of domestic disasters, such as earthquakes, floods and hurricanes. Its awesome powers grow under the tutelage of people like Lt. Col. Oliver North and General Richard Secord, the architects on the Iran-Contra scandal and the looting of America's savings and loan institutions. FEMA has even been given control of the State Defense Forces, a rag-tag, often considered neo-Nazi, civilian army that will substitute for the National Guard, if the Guard is called to duty overseas.

THE MOST POWERFUL ORGANIZATION IN THE UNITED STATES

Though it may be the most powerful organization in the United States, few people know it even exists. But it has crept into our private lives. Even mortgage papers contain FEMA's name in small print if the property in question is near a flood plain. FEMA was deeply involved in the Los Angeles riots and the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake in the San Francisco Bay Area. Some of the black helicopter traffic reported throughout the United States, but mainly in the West, California, Washington, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and Colorado, are flown by FEMA personnel. FEMA has been given responsibility for many new disasters including urban forest fires, home heating emergencies, refugee situations, urban riots, and emergency planning for nuclear and toxic incidents. In the West, it works in conjunction with the Sixth Army.
http://www.wealth4freedom.com/FEMA.html

When FEMA starts placing people in internment camps, will it be everyone, or just progressives and anarchists?

anyone deamed a risk to the martial order.
use Chile as a model. Even (some of )the rich were rounded up.

Ok, because if it were just left-wingers and anarchists being killed and tortured, then, you know, no harm no foul.

when you allow the legions inside the gates of Rome, even the privilged can feel the edge of a blade.
I don't believe your amusement would be so great after you find yourself in with the ones who enjoy the casual fate you are so willing to have others endure.

You talk of this as though it will definately take place. Will the USA last forever? No. But, I don't buy into this FEMA internment foolishness. The people wouldn't allow it. Too many of us are well armed and we'd all get together and fight it. If it comes from any side, it'd come from the let's-confiscate-everyones-guns type marxist liberal. You know, the same crowd who would have the government take over the nation's healthcare giving them access to everyone's private medical information.

But, your fantasies of dissident lockdown are entertaining though, which is why I'm here.

Carry on.

"Email from Diebold's election systems group / the latest discovery could explain why Gore lost in Florida.

A discussion takes place in January 2001 concerning the fact that Volusia County, Florida (where else?) came up with -16,022 votes for Gore. Yes, re-read that, Gore was awarded NEGATIVE VOTES.
"

Notice the lack of links for this gem and the use of the word "could".

You jackasses will beleive anything one of your own fantasizes about without ANY proof whatesoever.

No real proof that is...just lots of c and p from silly vanity websites.

The show must go on!.

of course you can, little weaselet. Here ya go.....
FEMA
The following guide will help you plan, prepare, and get ready in the event that martial law threatens you safety and well being. It is divided into two parts. The first part describes the framework for martial law and the second part the actions to take in preparing or the actual declaration of martial law.

INTERESTING FACTS

* Martial law is defined as: military rule or authority imposed on a civilian population when the civil authorities cannot maintain law and order, as in a time of war or during an emergency.
* Hitler turned Germany into a Nazi dictatorship through executive orders.
* Executive Order 10995: All communications media are to be seized by the Federal Government. Radio, TV, newspapers, CB, Ham, telephones, and the internet will be under federal control. Hence, the First Amendment will be suspended indefinitely.
* Executive Order 10997: All electrical power, fuels, and all minerals well be seized by the federal government.
* Executive Order 10998: All food resources, farms and farm equipment will be seized by the government. You will not be allowed to hoard food since this is regulated.
* Executive Order 10999: All modes of transportation will go into government control. Any vehicle can be seized.
* Executive Order 11000: All civilians can be used for work under federal supervision.
* Executive Order 11490: Establishes presidential control over all US citizens, businesses, and churches in time of "emergency."
* Executive Order 12919: Directs various Cabinet officials to be constantly ready to take over virtually all aspects of the US economy during a State of National Emergency at the direction of the president.
* Executive Order 13010: Directs FEMA to take control over all government agencies in time of emergency. FEMA is under control of executive branch of the government.
* Executive Order 12656: "ASSIGNMENT OF EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS RESPONSIBILITIES", "A national emergency is any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological emergency, or other emergency that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States. Policy for national security emergency preparedness shall be established by the President." This order includes federal takeover of all local law enforcement agencies, wage and price controls, prohibits you from moving assets in or out of the United States, creates a draft, controls all travel in and out of the United States, and much more.
* Martial law can be declared due to natural disasters, Y2k Crisis, Stock Market crash, no electricity, riots, biological attack, .... anything leading to the breakdown of law and order.

SURVIVING MARTIAL LAW

* Prepare before any declaration of marial law by becoming self reliant. You may become subject to a bureaucratic system and be prepared to stay one step ahead of it which is easy to do if you are prepared and in a position to be self reliant. You may also face mob rule, chaos, panic, or a complete breakdown in law and order. Surival situations may be easier to handle in rural areas than urban.
* Avoid areas of marital law. Can be imposed due to natural disasters or man caused events. Important to have a retreat or place in a rural area away from populated areas.
* Create alliances with like minded neighbors or community members that share your views. Team work and numbers may help your situation.
* Become transparent in the sense that you do not draw attention to yourself or your family. For instance, do not tell people that you are storing food just store food. Be prepared to render assistance to neighbors if need be. You never know when you will need them.
* Remain calm! Do not panic.
* Avoid areas of civil unrest if possible. If caught in civil unrest take appropriate action.
* Get informed and stay informed. Understand martial law can be a temporary crisis or an extended one. In extreme cases the shape of a whole nation can change.
* Declaration of martial law means your rights are suspended and it is government by decree. Your constitutional rights may no longer apply. This could mean a state of National Emergency.
* People can be arrested and imprisoned indefinitely without charges.
* Freedom of speech and freedom of assembly can be suspended, and censorship of the media imposed.
* Gun ownership will also come under severe attack during marital law. We could see house to house searches by the military or National Guard looking for guns and seizing any they find along with stored food.
* Take a stand on issues and make a choice that fits your beliefs and the situation. Do you believe as Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death?" Realize you may have some hard choices to make. Understand you may have to sacrifice your principles on trivial matters or take a hard stand. Always remember that you may have to come back and fight another day.
http://members.tripod.com/~Sidlinger/ml.html

"* Hitler turned Germany into a Nazi dictatorship through executive orders."

Is there anything you dorks believe that doesn't somehow relate back to Hitler?

Carry on.

> Notice the lack of links for this gem and the use of the word "could".


http://211.117.160.48:8000/s/lists/index.html

http://www.blackboxvoting.com/

what the fuck are these ?


and I already posted them too..

deny at all cost

time sink

First link is dead.

Second does not mention any negative votes (at least not without wading through waves and waves of hysterical illinformed gibberish)

Try again liar.

Won't work, Liberal/Arachist sources are unreliable. You need to use sources that are dependable, like Cal Thomas, people like that.

when you have the same family supporters of fascism.
-For more than a half century, members of the Bush family have been setting policy and making decisions for all Americans. Let's look at the family that has had such an impact on the lives of human beings worldwide-
http://www.hereinreality.com/familyvalues.html

Fascism is Nation SOCIALISM. Like you left-wingers are socialist/marxist. Really, it is. Look it up.

you can call an alligator a dog, but it still has too many teeth.

Nice choice of a new handle sheep.

Your typos and silly poetics give you away.

Not to mention your dependable conspiracy theory obsessions.

That's one reason Hitler hated the Soviets, and vice versa. Socialist (Fascist) and communist are similar economies who wished to rule the same territory.

do you want another?
FEMA


"Today Americans would be outraged if U. N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all people of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government." - Henry Kissinger [article below]

When a friend of mine told me about the US plans to declare marshall law then round up "constitutionalists", "civil rights advocates" and other such subversives to be taken by special white trains to death camps, I found that hard to believe. Now I do not deny that it will happen. You can read about those things here, along with some other subjects broadly grouped as the 'shadow
http://www.nogw.com/shadow.html

25 Rules of Disinformation: How to Fight Back

Built upon Thirteen Techniques for Truth Suppression by David Martin, the following may be useful to the initiate in the world of dealing with veiled and half-truth, lies, and suppression of truth when serious crimes are studied in public forums. This, sadly, includes every day news media, one of the worst offenders with respect to being a source of disinformation. Where the crime involves a conspiracy, or a conspiracy to cover up the crime, there will invariably be a disinformation campaign launched against those seeking to uncover and expose the truth and/or the conspiracy. There are specific tactics which disinfo artists tend to apply, as revealed here. Also included with this material are seven common traits of the disinfo artist which may also prove useful in identifying players and motives. The more a particular party fits the traits and is guilty of following the rules, the more likely they are a professional disinfo artist with a vested motive.

People can be bought, threatened, or blackmailed into providing disinformation, so even "good guys" can be suspect in many cases.

A rational person participating as one interested in the truth will evaluate that chain of evidence and conclude either that the links are solid and conclusive, that one or more links are weak and need further development before conclusion can be arrived at, or that one or more links can be broken, usually invalidating (but not necessarily so, if parallel links already exist or can be found, or if a particular link was merely supportive, but not in itself key) the argument. The game is played by raising issues which either strengthen or weaken (preferably to the point of breaking) these links. It is the job of a disinfo artist to interfere with these evaluation... to at least make people think the links are weak or broken when, in truth, they are not... or to propose alternative solutions leading away from the truth. Often, by simply impeding and slowing down the process through disinformation tactics, a level of victory is assured because apathy increases with time and rhetoric.

It would seem true in almost every instance, that if one cannot break the chain of evidence for a given solution, revelation of truth has won out. If the chain is broken either a new link must be forged, or a whole new chain developed, or the solution is invalid an a new one must be found... but truth still wins out. There is no shame in being the creator or supporter of a failed solution, chain, or link, if done with honesty in search of the truth. This is the rational approach. While it is understandable that a person can become emotionally involved with a particular side of a given issue, it is really unimportant who wins, as long as truth wins. But the disinfo artist will seek to emotionalize and chastise any failure (real or false claims thereof), and will seek by means of intimidation to prevent discussion in general.

Eight Traits of The Disinformationalist

1. Avoidance
2. Selectivity
3. Coincidental
4. Teamwork
5. Anti-conspiratorial
6. Artificial Emotions
7. Inconsistent
8. Newly Discovered: Time Constant

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is the disinfo artist and those who may pull their strings (those who stand to suffer should the crime be solved) MUST seek to prevent rational and complete examination of any chain of evidence which would hang them. Since fact and truth seldom fall on their own, they must be overcome with lies and deceit. Those who are professional in the art of lies and deceit, such as the intelligence community and the professional criminal (often the same people or at least working together), tend to apply fairly well defined and observable tools in this process. However, the public at large is not well armed against such weapons, and is often easily led astray by these time-proven tactics. Remarkably, not even media and law enforcement have NOT BEEN TRAINED to deal with these issues. For the most part, only the players themselves understand the rules of the game.

This why concepts from the film, Wag-The-Dog, actually work. If you saw that movie, know that there is at least one real-world counterpart to Al Pacino's character. For CIA, it is Mark Richards, who was called in to orchestrate the media response to Waco on behalf of Janet Reno. Mark Richards is the acknowledged High Priest of Disinformation. His appointment was extremely appropriate, since the CIA was VERY present at Waco from the very beginning of the cult to the very end of their days - just as it was at the People's Temple in Jonestown. Richards purpose in life is damage control.

For such disinformationalists, the overall aim is to avoid discussing links in the chain of evidence which cannot be broken by truth, but at all times, to use clever deceptions or lies to make select links seem weaker than they are, create the illusion of a break, or better still, cause any who are considering the chain to be distracted in any number of ways, including the method of questioning the credentials of the presenter. Please understand that fact is fact, regardless of the source. Likewise, truth is truth, regardless of the source. This is why criminals are allowed to testify against other criminals. Where a motive to lie may truly exist, only actual evidence that the testimony itself IS a lie renders it completely invalid. Were a known 'liar's' testimony to stand on its own without supporting fact, it might certainly be of questionable value, but if the testimony (argument) is based on verifiable or otherwise demonstrable facts, it matters not who does the presenting or what their motives are, or if they have lied in the past or even if motivated to lie in this instance -- the facts or links would and should stand or fall on their own merit and their part in the matter will merely be supportive.
Moreover, particularly with respects to public forums such as newspaper letters to the editor, and Internet chat and news groups, the disinfo type has a very important role. In these forums, the principle topics of discussion are generally attempts by individuals to cause other persons to become interested in their own particular position, idea, or solution -- very much in development at the time. People often use such mediums as a sounding board and in hopes of pollination to better form their ideas. Where such ideas are critical of government or powerful, vested groups (especially if their criminality is the topic), the disinfo artist has yet another role -- the role of nipping it in the bud. They also seek to stage the concept, the presenter, and any supporters as less than credible should any possible future confrontation in more public forums result due to their early successes. You can often spot the disinfo types at work here by the unique application of "higher standards" of discussion than necessarily warranted. They will demand that those presenting arguments or concepts back everything up with the same level of expertise as a professor, researcher, or investigative writer. Anything less renders any discussion meaningless and unworthy in their opinion, and anyone who disagrees is obviously stupid -- and they generally put it in exactly those terms.

So, as you read any such discussions, particularly so in Internet news groups (NG), decide for yourself when a rational argument is being applied and when disinformation, psyops (psychological warfare operations) or trickery is the tool. Accuse those guilty of the later freely. They (both those deliberately seeking to lead you astray, and those who are simply foolish or misguided thinkers) generally run for cover when thus illuminated, or -- put in other terms, they put up or shut up (a perfectly acceptable outcome either way, since truth is the goal.) Here are the twenty-five methods and seven traits, some of which don't apply directly to NG application. Each contains a simple example in the form of actual (some paraphrased for simplicity) from NG comments on commonly known historical events, and a proper response. Accusations should not be overused -- reserve for repeat offenders and those who use multiple tactics. Responses should avoid falling into emotional traps or informational sidetracks, unless it is feared that some observers will be easily dissuaded by the trickery. Consider quoting the complete rule rather than simply citing it, as others will not have reference. Offer to provide a complete copy of the rule set upon request (see permissions statement at end):

1) Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.

2) Selectivity. They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues. Should a commentator become argumentative with any success, the focus will shift to include the commentator as well.

3) Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed or elected to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.

4) Teamwork. They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.

5) Anti-conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for 'conspiracy theorists' and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain. Or, one might more rightly conclude they have an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do.

6) Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of 'artificial' emotionalism and an unusually thick skin -- an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial. Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal. But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the 'image' and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It's just a job, and they often seem unable to 'act their role in character' as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face conversation/confrontation. You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later -- an emotional yo-yo. With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game -- where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.

7) Inconsistent. There is also a tendency to make mistakes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic, or it may be somewhat 'freudian', so to speak, in that perhaps they really root for the side of truth deep within. I have noted that often, they will simply cite contradictory information which neutralizes itself and the author. For instance, one such player claimed to be a Navy pilot, but blamed his poor communicating skills (spelling, grammar, incoherent style) on having only a grade-school education. I'm not aware of too many Navy pilots who don't have a college degree. Another claimed no knowledge of a particular topic/situation but later claimed first-hand knowledge of it.

8) BONUS TRAIT: Time Constant. Recently discovered, with respect to News Groups, is the response time factor. There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when the government or other empowered player is involved in a cover up operation: 1) ANY NG posting by a targeted proponent for truth can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The government and other empowered players can afford to pay people to sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage. SINCE DISINFO IN A NG ONLY WORKS IF THE READER SEES IT - FAST RESPONSE IS CALLED FOR, or the visitor may be swayed towards truth. 2) When dealing in more direct ways with a disinformationalist, such as email, DELAY IS CALLED FOR - there will usually be a minimum of a 48-72 hour delay. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to 'get permission' or instruction from a formal chain of command. 3) In the NG example 1) above, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same 48-72 hours delay - the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted truth seeker or their comments are considered more important with respect to potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked twice for the same sin.

Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation

1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil
2. Become incredulous and indignant
3. Create rumor mongers
4. Use a straw man
5. Sidetrack opponents w name calling, ridicule
6. Hit and Run
7. Question motives
8. Invoke authority
9. Play Dumb
10. Associate opponent charges with old news
11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions
12. Enigmas have no solution
13. Alice in Wonderland Logic
14. Demand complete solutions
15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions
16. Vanish evidence and witnesses
17. Change the subject
18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad
19. Ignore facts, demand impossible proofs
20. False evidence
21. Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor
22. Manufacture a new truth
23. Create bigger distractions
24. Silence critics
25. Vanish

Fema
-These days, it's hard to read anything without thinking, "this can't be true." We're living in an age of secret bunker governments and stealth legislation, however, and unlikely scenarios are tempered with the realization our old reality is gone. This America differs drastically from the country we knew two years ago, when tales of felons ogling our e-mail would have been capped with a punch line. Yet here we are, scratching our heads, while guardians of the public trust shill for the state. When Chris Matthews responds to Christopher Hitchens' charges against Henry Kissinger by braying about how "our very free notion of the first amendment," allows Hitchens to say "anything he wants about somebody," (as if Hitchens were making things up), our airways are either populated by the misinformed or by those paid to propagandize.

Luckily, we can still count on some to deliver hard truths. In an October 2001 article entitled "Liberties Lost: Unintended Consequences of the Anti-Terror Law," for example, former White House counsel John Dean lamented that the "right to dissent" was in jeopardy. Charging that the USA PATRIOT Act twisted the definition of domestic terrorism to include "home-grown political activists," his concern was well-founded -- especially now that no-fly lists target peacenik clergymen and any act "that appears to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population," is considered terrorism. But though the Patriot Act's sunset clause assured temporary expanded powers, if our loss of liberty is unintended, why does Homeland Secretary legislation permanently authorize 'data-mining' ala John Poindexter's Total Information Awareness snoop shop? Is it unintentional? Or is it something else? Consider, if you will, the history of America's creeping fascism, from 1950 on:-
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/12/05_Fascism.html

Sheepdog.

Thanks for having a bit of a sense of humor.

"When a friend of mine told me about the US plans to declare marshall law then round up "constitutionalists", "civil rights advocates" and other such subversives to be taken by special white trains to death camps, I found that hard to believe. Now I do not deny that it will happen"

This was actually very funny.

And the link to nogw was particularly rich.

Now that is one deep collection of truly ridiculous conspiracy theories.

well, okay.
FEMA+martail law
What Is Mount Weather?

In March, 1976, The Progressive Magazine published an astonishing article entitled "The Mysterious Mountain." The author, Richard Pollock, based his investigative report on Senate subcommittee hearings and upon "several off-the-record interviews with officials formerly associated with Mount Weather." His report, and a 1991 article in Time Magazine entitled "Doomsday Hideaway", supply a few compelling hints about what is going on underground.

Ted Gup, writing for Time, describes the base as follows: "Mount Weather is a virtually self-contained facility. Aboveground, scattered across manicured lawns, are about a dozen buildings bristling with antennas and microwave relay systems. An on-site sewage-treatment plant, with a 90,000 gal.-a-day capacity, and two tanks holding 250,000 gal. of water could last some 200 people more than a month; underground ponds hold additional water supplies. Not far from the installation's entry gate are a control tower and a helicopter pad. The mountain's real secrets are not visible at ground level."

The mountain's "real secrets" are protected by warning signs, 10 foot-high chain link fences, razor wire, and armed guards. Curious motorists and hikers on the Appalachian trail are relieved of their sketching pads and cameras and sent on their way. Security is tight.

The government has owned the site since 1903; it has seen service as an artillery range, a hobo farm during the Depression, and a National Weather Bureau Facility. In 1936, the U.S. Bureau of Mines took control and started digging.

Mount Weather is virtually an underground city, according to former personnel interviewed by Pollock. Buried deep inside the earth, Mount Weather was equipped with such amenities as:

* private apartments and dormitories;
* streets and sidewalks;
* cafeterias and hospitals;
* a water purification system, power plant and general office buildings;
* a small lake fed by fresh water from underground springs;
* its own mass transit system;
* a TV communication system.

Mount Weather is the self-sustaining underground command center for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). The facility is the operational center -- the hub -- of approximately 100 other Federal Relocation Centers, most of which are concentrated in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland and North Carolina. Together this network of underground facilities constitutes the backbone of America's "Continuity of Government" program. In the event of nuclear war, declaration of martial law, or other national emergency, the President, his cabinet and the rest of the Executive Branch would be "relocated" to Mount Weather.
http://www.noveltynet.org/content/paranormal/www.parascope.com/mx/articles/mountweather.htm