From Associated Press

7:05 AM PDT, August 22, 2003

Fires at an auto dealership charred a warehouse and destroyed several SUVs on today, while other vehicles were vandalized with scrawled messages including "fat, lazy Americans" and the initials of a militant environmental group.

"With all the evidence that you're already seeing on the vehicle, its highly likely it's an arson fire," said Rick Genovese, fire marshal for West Covina.

The blaze broke out about 5 a.m. at a Hummer and Chevrolet auto dealership in the Los Angeles suburb.

Flames engulfed several vehicles, including Hummer H2s, but there were no reports of injuries. A separate blaze about 100 yards away caved in a warehouse roof and sent plumes of smoke into the air.

The word "ELF" was written on at least one vehicle in a possible reference to the group Earth Liberation Front.

The underground group has claimed responsibility for a slew of arson attacks against commercial entities that members say threaten or damage the environment. It is suspected in a $50 million arson Aug. 1 fire that destroyed a five-story complex under construction in San Diego's fast-growing northern edge.

In an e-mail sent Monday to reporters, ELF's news office said it appeared that San Diego-area fire was targeting "rampant urban development," but said it had not been in contact with the persons responsible. No one was injured in the fire.

In today's blaze, other slogans written in large letters on the sides and hoods of the vehicles included "I (heart) Pollution," "American Wastefullness" and "Fat, Lazy, Americans."

Genovese said whoever set the fire may have been trying to protest vehicles that pollute the air because of their poor fuel economy. But he said their approach was misguided.

"There's a lot more pollutants from the fire than the vehicles would pollute during their lifetime," he said. "There's hundreds of tons of pollutants that were spilled off."

...by...uhhh... burning things and...stuff."

Total.

Freakin'.

Stupid.

Idiots.

A much better way to save the environment is to drop thousands of cluster bombs on civilian targets in Iraq and other resource rich soveriegn nations so we can drive around unblemished Hummers in the colors of our own choice on our glorious highways and into our favorite strip malls.

this is what it takes to bring back to the consuming zombies to the reality plane.

Talking of stupidity, which one is worse:
Driving a refrigerator-looking vehicle at the tune of 7mpg (to move an average 150lbs adult)
or:
Torching the damned thing once for all?

When you think about it, the second option is a nice service to the environment. The bonfire will pollute way less than the total carbon monoxide output compounded throughout the vehicle's life.

Hummers are at the image of their precious owners: taking up space, inneficient , ostentatious.

Major: That makes no sense. Were you trying for irony? Try again.

Ralphie Boy: "When you think about it, the second option is a nice service to the environment. The bonfire will pollute way less than the total carbon monoxide output compounded throughout the vehicle's life. "

Can't you read? Or were you too busy wetting your pants in sheer joy about the environment getting saved?

'Genovese said whoever set the fire may have been trying to protest vehicles that pollute the air because of their poor fuel economy. But he said their approach was misguided.

"There's a lot more pollutants from the fire than the vehicles would pollute during their lifetime," he said. "There's hundreds of tons of pollutants that were spilled off."'

Sorta like amputating your arm to prevent hangnails, isn't it?

We need more foreigners to drop cluster bombs in Iraq, our soldiers just can't be stretched so thin, what with the overrideing need to protect SUV dealers in the homeland and all..can you like join up and get your foreigner friends to too...so we can get the soldiers home to protect our patriotic car dealers from bomb wielding anrchists.

This is serious, more serious than you can think.

I'm an American citizen by birth. I'm proud of that fact, unlike most of you here, who hate America, take advantage of the freedom to express that hatred guaranteed to you by the blood of your betters, and are too cowardly to go somewhere else you perceive as better, like Cuba.

And, I'm in the armed services.

Now, please explain to me the fractured logic of the idiots who think they're protecting the earth by polluting it far more than the vehicles they protest ever could.

I repeat: it's seriously stupid.

a cluster bomb on an Iraqui family, remember that you are doing it so good Americans can drive SUV's to the strip mall for thenew TV Guide!

And if you are in the military spray those toxic wastes and CFCs high!

Oh, wait, I get it...

You're one of the few people still convinced the war was about oil, right? How cute!

Well, that explains everything.

However, you haven't answered my question, Major. How does burning vehicle protect the environment?

from a 2->4 ton vehicle!! Can you, TP , explain the chem/physics first?__O.k. you can't, no problem.}[]{]{][]{]{}{}hows about raising the price of gas?__and investing the $$$ in alt/renewables?

seriously stupid, your obviously a moron. go back to 'your countrys' history, and look again you fool. you bought the lies they sold you, and you are proud of it. thats weak.
ahem! corporations run this world, not the federal government of the usa. corporations fund governments, governments that train(brainwash) idiots like yourself into believing in an EXTREME HATRED for whoever they tell you to hate(and must kill). they then order you into battle to 'liberate peoples' by starvation and death for the 'rights' to exploit that countrys natural resources.
Who profits from these missions? corporations. so if you want to do anything 'significant' to hurt a corporation, you have to do it in terms that they understand: PROFIT MARGINS
the environment is being so ravaged already at this very moment, that burning the suv, or funneling huge amounts of petroleum through the tailpipe over the cars 'lifespan' wont really make a damn bit of difference. thats just a stupid argument. burning the suv's cost GM a ton of cash. lost profits.that was the point.
add the fact that NO ONE, HUMAN OR NONHUMAN has ever been injured by the ELF through its entire past history. Thats no coincidence,so lets not be confused between causing bodily harm or death to any living thing, or burning a few suvs to make a valid point.
hats off to the girls and boys of the ELF!

Looking back, it will seem to future generations inexplicable why Americans were unable on their own, and in time to save themselves, to accept a rule of nature so basic that it could be mouthed by an actor, Lawrence Fishburn, in a movie, The Cotton Club".

"You've got to learn, " the line went, "that when you push people around, some people push back."

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can't remember new year's day?
"Anti-American"?
anticrisis

lynx

latest comments

August 22, 2003

Press Release: ELF STRIKES THREE TIMES IN ONE NIGHT AGAINST SUVs

For Immediate Release

Two separate attacks against urban sprawl have been reported to the Through media reports, the ELF Press Office has been made aware of three ELF actions occuring in the early morning hours of August 22, 2003. Although the ELF Press Office has received no communications about these actions from the persons responsible, spraypainted signatures at all scenes indicates claims of responsibility by ELF activists.

The actions include:
Arcadia, California - Rusnak Mercedes Benz. Ten S.U.V.s were spraypainted with "terrorist," "killer," and "ELF".
Duarte, California - Duarte Mitsubishi. The dealership building and approximately twenty vehicles were painted with "ELF" and the phrases "gross polluter" and "We (heart) pollution".
West Covina, California. An early morning fire ripped through a GM  autodealership, destroying and damaging several SUVS including several Hummer H2s. A warehouse on the site was also destroyed by fire. Messages left at the scene there included "I (heart) Pollution," "American Wastefullness" and "ELF".

The Earth Liberation Front is an international underground organization that uses direct action in the form of economic sabotage to stop the destruction of the natural environment. Since 1997, the ELF in North America has caused over $100 million in damages to entities who profit from the destruction of life and the planet.

Any communications received by the ELF Press Office will be forwarded on to interested members of the press. Included in this email is a background piece written in November, 2002 to discuss some of the motivations behind the ELF's targetting of SUVs.

Further questions can be directed to the ELF Press Office.

-30-

Contact:
North American Earth Liberation Front Press Office
elfpress at resist dot ca

Morons.

The tons of pollutants came not only from the burning vehicles, but from the dealerships as well.

I repeat: it's a stupid way to protest.

As for brainwashing, rabble, it worked very well in your case, didn't it?

It didn't cost GM anything to lose those vehicles. Ever hear of insurance? All losses will be recovered. Higher rates due to the claims will be passed on to the customers. More vehicles will be produced, thus ensuring continued employment for GM's workers and it's parts suppliers. Not to mention the construction workers who will rebuild the dealerships.

The net total effect? More jobs.

And a bunch of pollution; far greater than the amount if those vehicles had been allowed to burn gasoline for 10 years.

Idiots.

"this is what it takes to bring back to the consuming zombies to the reality plane."

Nothing happened that is going to endear your cause and your movement to the working class. The working class is going to view this as a bunch of militant vandals destroying personal property because they believe their message is more important that the free-will of others. By performing this act, you have placed some working class families out of a job. Once again, those who claim they want to be the advocate for the working class have instead spit in the face of the working class. And without the working class on your side, you're not ever going to accomplish what you hope to accomplish. Until you recognize that you need the working class to ever be successful, you are doomed to failure. This act did nothing but place you in a negative light to the majority of the working class, and by that ultimate measure, the act was a failure.

Nobody has ever accused the lunatic fringe of being good at public relations. They have always been their own worst enemy.

the people have spoken.
as you fight your wars for oil
to drive your urban tanks
the people have the will and desire
and swallow the red pill
so pick up your cocktails..
and now they will learn
We'll loot and kill and dance around
and WATCH THE CITY BURN!

"During these years, FBI provocateurs repeatedly urged and initiated violent acts, including forceful disruption of meetings on and off university campuses, attacks on police, bombings, and so on… One FBI provocateur resigned when he was asked to arrange the bombing of a bridge in such a way that the person who placed the booby-trapped bomb would be killed. This was in Seattle, where it was revealed that FBI infiltrators had engaged in a campaign of arson, terrorism, and bombings of university and civic buildings, and where the FBI arranged a robbery, entrapping a young black man who was paid $75 for the job and killed in a police ambush."
- Noam Chomsky

The Weather Underground
To Disrupt, Discredit, and Destroy

anticrisis

lynx

latest comments

In the wake of a massive fire set by the ELF in San Diego, activists are receiving intense harassment from the government. Activists have had their homes raided, have been detained by the police, and have had their homes photographed by agents sitting in SUV's. Still, they are resisting. On Saturday, there will be a rally and press conference held in Balboa Park where a number of activists will discuss the various forms of repression the government is using to silence free speech.

Update: Three more ELF actions were reported on Friday, August 22nd.
Story about Raid
Rally and Press Conference
ELF Fire Info
Know Your Rights
Security Culture Handbook
August 22nd update

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anticrisis

lynx

latest comments

discussion of E.L.F. and pacifism at kpfklisteners.net:

Pacifica is certainly active in it's stated mission to disseminate info on the "causes of conflicts" and to promote the study of those causes but does Pacifica have any specifc interest in giving airtime to discussions on how to SOLVE conflicts? should it?

a rare online excerpt from "Pacifism as Pathology"

anticrisis

lynx

latest comments

"We'll loot and kill and dance around and WATCH THE CITY BURN!" - 'systemfailure'

"NO ONE, HUMAN OR NONHUMAN has ever been injured by the ELF through its entire past history. Thats no coincidence,so lets not be confused between causing bodily harm or death to any living thing, or burning a few suvs to make a valid point." - 'the rabble'

Nothing happened that is going to endear your cause and your movement to the working class. The working class is going to view this as a bunch of militant vandals destroying personal property because they believe their message is more important that the free-will of others. By performing this act, you have placed some working class families out of a job. Once again, those who claim they want to be the advocate for the working class have instead spit in the face of the working class. And without the working class on your side, you're not ever going to accomplish what you hope to accomplish. Until you recognize that you need the working class to ever be successful, you are doomed to failure. This act did nothing but place you in a negative light to the majority of the working class, and by that ultimate measure, the act was a failure. - lynx-777

nice Chomsky post about Cointel pro.
who knows?
Remember Judy Bari?
http://www.judibari.org/

Judi Bari understood the need to connect to the working class by talking to them, finding out about their needs, explaining to them her positions, making sure she did not do anything threatening to isolate them from the Earth First! movement. The ELF could learn a lot from Judi Bari, namely that their methods they have tried over and over and over for years now have not worked and will not work.

was that she was set up and then wacked by the FBI who then blamed the bomb on her when it was, in all prrobalty a cointel pro job.
We don't know who set the fires....yet.
Scrawling ELF is strangly like the 'manson murders' commited by military intelligence and Tex Watson after the 'helter skelter' painted on the walls in blood.
There were dogs who didn't bark, cut phone lines, silenced gun shots and other black ops signs of military wetwork.

Different theories regarding the bomb in the car of Judi Bari and Daryl Cherney are up for intrepretation.

That groups like ELF have done similar acts in the past that occured at this dealership, or that activists use black bloc tactics while protesting are not up for question. In both cases, these methods only lead to the working class viewing these actions as contemptable and it only helps to distance ourselves from having the opportunity to reason with them. We should be strongly condemning these acts for what they are, an attack on the working class people and the things they hold dear. Instead, we cheer as people lose their jobs, new homes being built are burned, and the places the working class frequest as places of recreation are destroyed.

Like Judi, we should be talking to the working class, not threatening their livelihood or creating panic. When these things occur, the working class just throws up their defense mechanisims, just like any reasonable person would do. We will not endear the working class to join in the struggle by, in their eyes, spounting off about strange 9/11 theories, and making outlandish claims (as they see it) regarding the reasons we are in Iraq and the Middle East. Things like this cause them to view us with suspecious eyes, wondering what it is we want from them.

In order to convince the working class of our struggle, we need to become like them, intermingle with them, dress like them, work where they do, eat where they eat, show interest in the things they do, do the things they do. People are always more willing to listen to someone they view as being like them. In this area, we have failed greately.

And in this area, Judi Bari excelled. We need to study more closley what made her successful and emulate what she did.

OMG! This is just stupid!!! SCREW you freaken enviormental faggots! I like the enviorment too... I recycle and all that sh!t but this ticks me off... use your non existant brain and knock off this none sense! burning NEW cars cuz they take up a little more gas who the FCUK CARES!!!!!!!!!!! Now i'll just go out and BUY a GAS GUZZLER SUV and BURN gas just for the heck of it. CUZ I CAN and WILL to get back at these people that did this.

"The ELF could learn a lot from Judi Bari, namely that their methods they have tried over and over and over for years now have not worked and will not work."

INSANITY: Repeating the same action over and over add expecting different results.

TP your point does not make sense. It is the car dealers who are repeating their bulllshit over and over, just look at television car ads. And of course the death merchants repeating their wars of liberation, where innocents die and the chief murderers go loose or cannot be found.

But you are not big on subtleties are you, so stick to simple generalisms please, it is all that one really expects from you.

Sorry, but I'm much too simpleminded to understand your post. I'm a conservative.

warren's back.
Hi warren!!

"Sorry, but I'm much too simpleminded to understand your post. I'm a conservative."

This is harmful to our movement. It is this type of rhetoric that will turn-off the working class people and cause them to disregard our message.

You shills are truly a confederacy of dunces. You operate by supposition and bad information...which is why we lost Afghansitan and are losing Iraq.

The only ? is: will your particular madness suck the whole planet down to your level of insect like behavior.

"The only ? is: will your particular madness suck the whole planet down to your level of insect like behavior."

I hope so!

You shills are truly a confederacy of dunces. You operate by supposition and bad information...which is why we lost Afghansitan and are losing Iraq.

The only ? is: will your particular madness suck the whole planet down to your level of insect like behavior.

"The only ? is: will your particular madness suck the whole planet down to your level of insect like behavior."

Given the other choice is complete destruction of all things living by liberalism/anarchy, then Yes, we'd be better off as insects.

"...we'd be better off as insects."

Great! I'd love to step on a shit-filled reprobate like you.

We play for keeps. Things either go the way we want or we'll train-wreck the whole damn thing and do it anyway.

Somebody please translate this gibberish.

Somebody please translate this gibberish. Words that exceed two syllables are a challenge to me. I am a liberal.

wow
psychosis
wow

Words that exceed ONE syllable are a challenge to me. I'm a conservative.

I'll start this off with a quote from Greg Palast: "I'm not one of those cynical people who think that we went into Iraq for the oil.... but we're sure as hell not leaving without it."

Now, a part of me agrees with Ralph that "this is what it takes to bring back to the consuming zombies to the reality plane. " But the particulars of any given action then open themselves to debate, and from one elf to another, I wish to raise one issue.

I would have written sooner, but I was on a date all weekend at Solfest 2003, held at Real Goods' Institute of Solar Living in Hopland. We took my car, because the women who went with me has no car of her own. She walks and takes public transit everywhere she goes. She doesn't live in San Francisco. She lives in Manteca, in the central valley, not exactly the pinnacle of public transit. When I told her that there were hotels and campgrounds listed nearby, the first thing out of her in reply was, "I have a tent." This woman went at the Solfest workshops diligently, and said she came away with a whole set of new ideas to consider.

Why am I telling you this? Here's why.

Are you imagining the woman I've been describing? If you have have, then I have one more question:

Did you visulaize a woman who weighs 550 pounds?

I hope now you see which issue I'm raising.

Actually, I was in Los Angeles not long ago. The National Association to Advance Fat-Acceptance had there national convention there. Very inspiring this year, as they had a great many exercise and movement workshops and they were very well attended. They also had political workshops as well. And at these I brought up just the issue which has now been injected into this ELF raid. NAAFA is an anti-discrimination group, and therefore one I believe should be better integrated with other peace and justice organizations. One barrier to this historically has been the habit of some activists to use fat people as targets for venting their frustrations.

I've known of NAAFA for years and been actively involved much of that time. I have gotten to know a lot of people who are very heavy. I haven't seen many of them driving SUVs. They certainly don't seem any less interested in social consciousness than the rest of the population, or any more lazy for that matter. They are, however, wondering who the hell they can trust with their time and resources. I'm doing anything I can think of to inject radical language into any of their events I attend, and some are listening. I'm always worried though, that incidents like this is going to convince this allegedly growing segment of the American population that our side has no place for them, which will drive them straight into the hands of our common enemy.

What is this blind spot, I keep wondering. We are a cadre who, presumably, believes nothing the corporate media have to say. And yet so often, when the subject of fatness comes up, what I hear out of many fellow activists' mouths are the very articles of propaganda injected into our minds by Big Reduction. NAAFA's organizational adversaries, the "obesity research" crowd, are funded by weight loss corporations. Almost every statistic you have heard from corporate media about the nature of fat people and what should be done with them is as rigged as that from any other corporate-funded research. What corporate funding does NAAFA get, you are probably asking. The answer is, vendor table fees from large size clothing designers, mostly small women-owned business which were started in response to the corporate textilists' refusal to make half-decent clothing for them. Recently some of these sweatshopcorps have been making larger sizes, but they only started doing so when they realized there was a market they were missing, and their clothes are still generally crap compared to the trailblazers.

I have heard the stories of these people, and am fully convinced that the recipe for a 500 pound person in many cases is: a 200 pound person, castigated, demoralized, and encouraged to repeatedly subject themselves to conditions any one of us would deplore if not for the strange idea that their actions are completely voluntary and beneficial for them. Some of these individuals have gone to the point of being talked by their physicians into surgical experiments which by all rights should be considered torture. Dexfenfluramine was approved by the FDA, not because it is safe or effective, but because diet industry hack Joanne Manson yelled at the regulators, "Any one of you who does not approve this drug should be shot". Remember that when you're told by these corporatists that a single thing they do to fat people is for their health or ours.

With regard to cars, there are some issues of architectural discrimination. So far the commercial alternative fuel vehicles are not very driveable for anyone who s not thin, and for that matter, anyone who is disabled and has a need to carry a wheelchair. The automakers I think are counting on their vision of environmentalists as reed-like creatures who will blissfully snap up vehicles with cramped dimensions and not care if larger folk are disenfranchised from the revolution. And one doesn't have to make a huge car to fit a large body. There are people who fit perfectly well for instance in Hondas, all except for the seatbelts, and Honda refuses to provide belt extenders. The government says car companies only have to make belts long enough for the 95th percentile. Sound reasonable? Perhaps less, when one hears they're still using the 95th percentile from 1975.

"Taking up space, inefficient, ostentatious". So are many things in nature which are not easily made into commodities. Such things have often wound up driven to extinction because capitalists have no use for them. It is much the same here. How are fat people the most inefficient is my question? My answer is, as killing machines. That is why militarists hate them so much. Indeed, I feel a good part of hatred of fat people is militarist and male-chauvinist as well, it being a somatic variant seen more often on women's bodies than on men's. Mario Savio spoke of throwing oneself on the gears. Who better to do so? Who better to jam the machine into inoperability? The militarists are worried about this even now. They are worried that there will be too many fat people to keep the war machine going.

How can we seal their fate? By seeking alternative commerce in food, to ensure everyone in the world has access to it. The shame is not that so many Americans are fat. It is that so many in the rest of the world never have the opportunity. It is a gift which should be shared. And once everyone is "fat and happy", guess how many people will give a crap about picking up a weapon and marching off to war.

There are a lot of capitalists who delight in using heavier people as human shields in their dirty little war. There is much we can do to avoid playing into their hands.

On a different tack, one thing I learned at the SolFest which you might use with some of your down-home conservative types. The original Ford Model T ran on alcohol as well as gasoline. Rockefeller, when he tired of the competitiom, funded the Women's Christian Temperance Movement. The resulting years-long prohibition outlawed alcohol not only as a drink, but as a fuel. The alcohol advocates say that most modern vehicles can be retooled to run on alcohol without very much difficulty. Home stills can be used to produce it, or it can be bought from farmers' collectives. There are, according to them, tax credits for using alcohol in a vehicle rather than gasoline. One, of course, would avoid a perennial bane to conservatives, gasoline taxes. They say they made a series at KQED, the San Francisco PBS station. But it has never run, because Chevron caught wind of it and made the series' sequestration in KQED's vault a condition of continued funding.

Do people want to keep you from knowing about a fuel which is easy to convert to, and which emits the CO2 consumed by plants last year rather than eons ago? Evidently, people do.

So tell your beer-bellied friends at the brewery to raise a glass to environmentalists, then check out:

http://www.alcoholcanbeagas.com

Please post data showing the decline in SUV sales caused by ELF.

Then we'll talk about insanity.

My my, intelligence is not your chief skill is it Toilet Paper man?

How would an increase in buying a dinosaur-like gas guzzler be viewed in any way as sane? And furthermore, ther mere purchase of any commodity does not render one insane. The pattern of overconsumption by Americans (as well as lying, inciting racial hatred, the twisted urge to foster ecological collapse, and the denial of war without end to secure oil and other resources) is a symptom of a collective insanity. If you cannot see this than you are either incredibly dumb or just another shill preaching death and hate for your own pathological impulses.

In any event you are at the wrong website. Go preach your suicidal tracts elsewhere.

No. Calif. said: "The ELF could learn a lot from Judi Bari, namely that their methods they have tried over and over and over for years now have not worked and will not work."

I said: "INSANITY: Repeating the same action over and over add expecting different results."

Dr. Strange said: "It is the car dealers who are repeating their bulllshit over and over, just look at television car ads." Then you posted random insults.

I said: "Please post data showing the decline in SUV sales caused by ELF." This would prove that ELF's efforts are having an impact.

Dr Strange said: "How would an increase in buying a dinosaur-like gas guzzler be viewed in any way as sane? And furthermore, ther mere purchase of any commodity does not render one insane."

That, of course, is a total non-sequitur. You are missing my point, whether intentionally or otherwise, in order to make some ludicrous point about mass consumerism and insanity.

My point is: ELF commits acts of vandalism as a means to an end. That end has not been accomplished, nor will it. Further, its actions harm the environment they claim to want to protect.

Work with me here...ELF repeats the same action over and over, expecting different results. This is the classic definition of insanity.

Got it?

"My point is: ELF commits acts..."

The only POINT you have is the one atop your dunce cap. Idiot.

I don't work with scum. I scrape it off the underside of the bowl and flush it.

Got it?

and on and on.....
9/5/03: a dozen SUV's vandalized at Santa Fe NM dealership....

"....Last month, the group took credit for a vandalism and arson spree that targeted SUVs at several car dealerships and on the streets of suburban Los Angeles, causing $2.5 million in damages.

It has also taken responsibility for vandalizing sport utility vehicles at dealerships in Santa Cruz, California; Erie, Pennsylvania; Seattle, Washington and Eugene, Oregon, and earlier this month claimed responsibility for burning a San Diego, California, area apartment building that was under construction...."

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NO ONE, HUMAN OR NONHUMAN has ever been injured by the ELF through its entire past history. Thats no coincidence,so lets not be confused between causing bodily harm or death to any living thing, or burning a few suvs to make a valid point." - 'the rabble'

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the SMOG thread
jump up in thread
repression continues in San Diego
the provocateur issue

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anticrisis

lynx

latest comments

"ELF commits acts of vandalism as a means to an end. That end has not been accomplished. ELF repeats the same action over and over, expecting different results. This is the classic definition of insanity."

The life and examples of Judy Bari have been wasted on such people as Dr. Strange, ELF and their ilk. Her gentle way of connecting to the working people and convincing them through reason and dialouge was effective, whereas ELF has done nothing to curtail their opposition. Until the lessons of Judy Bari are learned by ELF and their comrades, they can expect their insanity to continue to bear no fruit.

"...ELF has done nothing to curtail their opposition."

Unsubstantiated Allegation

For more on logic at your level, try reading "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Logic."

OK, then document where they've been effective.

Waiting.

Waiting......

Waiting.........................

Waiting.........................................

Exactly. You can't.

Next.

We're going to go out and destroy some property. And then we're going to make fun of the working class. Yeah, spit in their face!! That'll make them them want to join us in our mutual struggle. It's worked so well the past 50+ years. Let's do it!!

"Unsubstantiated Allegation"

For more on logic at your level, try reading "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Staging A Revolution."

"dc"

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YOU made the unsubstantiated allegation. The burden of proof is on YOU.

IDIOT.

"OK, then document where they've been effective."

"YOU made the unsubstantiated allegation."

Exactly what I knew. ELF's tactis are a failure and your inablibly to show they've made a difference is further evidence.

liberalism
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"ELF's tactis are a failure..."

Unsubstantiated Allegation

For more on logic at your level, try reading "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Logic."

"YOU made the unsubstantiated allegation. The burden of proof is on YOU."

Changing The Subject.

For more on logic at your level, try reading "The Complete Idiot Liberals (Pardon The Redundancy) Guide to Logic."

"ELF's tactis are a failure..."

circle
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smashtheleft

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stupid people