A weekly Anti-War Demonstration in Bakersfield Fridays from 4:30. South East Corner of White Lane and South H st. for info call (661) 835-1438

Having lived in Bakersfield for four years (early 1986 to December of 1989), I thought I would never see the day when something like this could happen there.

For a Free copy of Conflict of Ages, a book on Christian objection to war and military service, email your name and address to peacechurch@jps.net or go to the webpage: http://www.christianpacifism.com

The book is comprised of a study of the Old and New Testament, the early church fathers and apologists, and a history of both Christian militarism and Christian pacifism.

Just wondering. Because the declaration of war against iraq has been lifted. I'm not aware of any other wars ongoing.

Please wake up. Iraqis and Americans are being killed or wounded on a daily basis. Basic water and electricity service has not been restored - apparantly part of a US decision to discipline the Iraqi population. Disease is raging, with little medical care available. Trigger-happy US troops are blasting civilian automobies, often containing children, with automatic weapons fire. Often they burst into flame, killing all inside. Bush is obviously trying to dream up some excuse for invading Iran and giving control of its oil and its economy to US corporations and turning the clock back to the good old days of the Shah.

>Bush is obviously trying to dream up some excuse for invading Iran

Is that the scare for this week? It's so hard to keep up with the current scare tactics of those like you. One week it's Syria. Next weeks it's North Korea. Now it's Iran.

What's next week gonna be? I'm afraid I'm a tad bit busy this week at work, but next week I could be a big help if I knew what the scare would be in advance.

Yeah, not so long ago the big scare tactic of the left was that Bush would invade Iraq in a phony quest for non-existent weapons of mass destruction and that mass civilian casualties and much bloodshed among US occupiers would follow. Goes to show how wrong those extremists are.

Care to provide any proof. Anyone can speculate, which, is what your last post was. Everything you say is speculation with no proof.

"Trigger-happy US troops are blasting civilian automobies, often containing children, with automatic weapons fire. Often they burst into flame, killing all inside"

You write nothing but propaganda and not very well. Your the one that needs to wake up. Or at least back up your claims

A few months ago does me no good. What's next weeks scare tactic gonna be?

For just one example among many, see Robert Fisk's article "Massacre in Iraq - 11 Civilians Killed by US Troops" on the San Francisco Indy Media site. It appeared on July 28.

That Iran has weapons of mass destruction and can't wait to use them on the good burghers of southern Orange County.

>That Iran has weapons of mass destruction and can't wait to use them on the good burghers of southern Orange County.

That one will come to pass as surely as all the others. Sounds great!! We'll promote it!

Let's Roll !!!!

Isn't he the American hater who writes for the Guardian and who lied about going to Baghdad's airport and there not being any US troops there?

Oh, yeah. He's credible.

I'm not denying the fact that soldiers and civilians have been wounded since the war ended. I'm pointing out the ridiculous dramatizations you add onto your points. Kids are being roasted in shot up cars "often", water and electric being withheld intentionally, the u.s. is invading iran. It's propaganda you can't back up. Prove me wrong.

"It's propaganda you can't back up."

Oh yeah, like when I said that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Yeah, I know what propaganda is.

Well I don't know, Meyer. I fear it will come as an 'event' like 9-11 but in the form of an untraceable bioweapon c/o Ft Detric to bring the herd in line (since most of them are gullible cowards) with the bleating of a pentagon press placing us into martial law
with the assured passage of patriot act II, III & IV. SARS was just a drill to accustom
us to the condition of fear and quarantine. Are ya ready for the fun ride?

The killing of civilians in the manner mentioned has been widely published. There is a well documented article in the "New Yorker" confirmed by the military, hardly a propaganda source...

same old same old

nothing new here

yawn

Then the propaganda concerning WMD was written by Bill Clinton and the U.N. Both of which assured the world that Iraq had WMD. The UN listed remaining biological and chemical weapons numerous enough to kill about a million people after they got the boot in1998. That and the fact that iraq has used WMD against the kurds and iran.

They didn't get the boot, you lying shit...and the UN list was of potential site, hence the need to confirm through inspection. In any event, the US had intelligence that Iraq had destroyed their WMD stockpile after Gulf War I. Whether Clinton "wrote" the propaganda or not, you bushy baby knew it wasn't true and lied to the American people to justify his war for oil.

>the US had intelligence that Iraq had destroyed their WMD stockpile after Gulf War I.

Then Saddam should have just come clean, let the inspectors go whereever and whenever they wanted, showed he had complied with all UN resolutions, and stayed in power. But he didn't.

...just keep raising that bar....so you can have the war you want.....

they were withdrawn after saddam didn't cooperate. He would not them visit certain sites and others had to be cleared days in advance. so fuck off you appeasing pussy. Your WMD whining is moot.

Just keep belevin' what you want to believe.

Anyone who doesn't realize at this point that trigger-happy US troops have killed a large number of Iraqis travelling in cars - including entire families - has not been reading the daily papers or following any news source other than Fox News, which they know will tell them only what they want to hear.

NOT WELCOME!

http://www.thebakersfieldchannel.com/news/2401368/detail.html

american soldiers are just lighting up cars filled with orphaned iraqi children which then explode in flames. This is happening often. These people wouldn't be trying to run checkpoints would they? Your slightly over-dramatizing the situation.

american soldiers are just lighting up cars filled with orphaned iraqi children which then explode in flames. This is happening often. These people wouldn't be trying to run checkpoints would they? Your slightly over-dramatizing the situation.

"Rocks thrown at a crowd are lethal weapons so..... "

oh...THERE'S the WMD da shrub was talking about...

"they were withdrawn after saddam didn't cooperate"

Nope...they weren't withdrawn after SH did't cooperate, you double lyin' shit...they were withdrawn because we were going to bomb Iraq...remember "Operation Desert Fox"?? No? Pretty selective memory there, pinhead....

Certainly everyone wants our troops to come back home. We've lost more soldiers than Iraqi civilians have died. Plain fact.

But as long as there are savages to kill over there we need to keep killing them.

Please try and keep a clear head and not get too delusional.

I suggest that you do a google search using the key words Iraqi civilians killed car. You'll see plenty.

Who are the savages, by any reasonable standard of ethics - the people who killed a few hundred US troops who were invading their country, or people like Bush, who killed thousands of Iraqi civilians - many of whom were burned to death, and wounded countless others?

Caducada:"We've lost more soldiers than Iraqi civilians have died."

Plain lie...but, then we can expect that everytime she lays her fingers on the keyboard....

>Nope...they weren't withdrawn after SH did't cooperate,...they were withdrawn because we were going to bomb Iraq...remember "Operation Desert Fox"??

Operation Desert Fox would not have been necessary had SH cooperated.

Then Bush, or rather his "advisors," would have had to dream up some other excuse for invading this independent third world country. It is part of a long tradition - there was always an excuse to steal more land from the Indians, too.

"Operation Desert Fox would not have been necessary had SH cooperated."

Jeez, you are either and idiot, a liar, or both....

Let's look at the facts;

Here's the declared mission objective:"To degrade Saddam Hussein's ability to make and to use weapons of mass destruction. To diminish Saddam Hussein's ability to wage war against his neighbors. To demonstrate to Saddam Hussein the consequences of violating international obligations."

To degrade what has shown to be non-existant, and which we KNEW by intelligence to be non-existant? That is obviously bullshit. To demonstrate the consequences of violating int't obligations? Well, the inspectors were there to confirm whether or not he was meeting those obligations...the obligations regarding WMD, NOT the arbitrary requirements generated by the US. The logic is obviously fractured. He won't let us go where we want, so we will bomb, but if we bomb, we CAN'T go where we want....

The logic is only fracture if you accept the false premise, the actual premise is that we wanted to go to war...everything else is chaff....

Do you have to be a bald faced liar to even register to be a Republican?

>That is obviously bullshit. The logic is obviously fractured.

Of course it is................to you.

If it doesn't match up with your predetermined beliefs, then you automatically dismiss it. That's why your postings are worthless, except to laugh at and make ridicule. You're one of the reasons we hang out here, so we can laugh at your stupidity. Good job! Way to go!

>He won't let us go where we want

That's right, he wouldn't. So, what was he trying to hide?

Just another example of why people like you aren't now nor should they ever be in positions that require important decisions be made. Exactly the way it should be.

What important decisions are you allowed to make - down at the Cointelpro office? I would think that the Agent in Charge makes all the important decisions. How's that search for wmds going? Remember, anyone who questions their existence is guilty of perverted logic. Not only that , but they are probably "perverts" themselves who don't like guns, beer guzzling, killing members of the inferior races, pickup trucks with shotgun racks, or the repeal of women's suffrage.

--I would think that the Agent in Charge makes all the important decisions.--

That's what you get for thinking instead of knowing.

"That's right, he wouldn't. So, what was he trying to hide? "

Obviously, he had nothing to hide...what we were trying to do was provoke, because we KNEW he had nothing to hide...and now that we have complete run of the fuckin' country, we can't even come up with a radioactive slingshot!

..it seems that you are the one having trouble matching your predetermined beliefs with reality...fuckin' bumvent.....

>Obviously, he had nothing to hide

By not permitting the UN inspectors to freely roam the country and to enter wherever they wished unannounced anytime day or night, he certainly didn't demonstrate that he had nothing to hide.

Once again, you believe what you want. It doesn't really matter. People like you aren't now nor should they ever be in positions that require important decisions be made, and for good reason. Exactly the way it should be.

You don't seem to have the capacity to accept reality, do you? We HAVE that capability NOW, dipshit...and what have we found? ZIP! ZILCH! NADA! Why? 'CAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO BE FOUND! The fact is (and I know that when it come to being a lying ass(kissing) Republican, facts can be inconvinient things..), this shit about going anywhere, anytime for any reason was meant solely to create conditions that could not be meant...so asswipes like you could say..."See?"

Well, waddya see...well, you see all kinds a shit that don't exist..but what those of us with a fuckin' brain see is NO WMD'S!!! None...Nope...Uh-uh....Nuthin'....You claim he was hiding something...what was he hiding???

Jeez you guys are fuckin' dumb....

Once again, you believe what you want. It doesn't really matter. People like you aren't now nor should they ever be in positions that require important decisions be made, and for good reason. Exactly the way it should be.

..what? I can lie like a rug...that should qualify me to make important decisions for this mis-administration....

Whatever.

:&

C'mon...accept defeat like a man...

...fuckin' pussy....

The first right-winger who actually finds a wmd in Iraq gets his choice of a subscription to Maxim, Teen People, or Combat Handguns Magazine.

It seems to me that those who have justified a bloody war with the argument that Iraq is filled with dangerous weapons of mass destruction have the burden of proof on them. We don't have an obligation to prove that they don't exist for the simple reason that it is indeed impossible to prove a negative. Bushy tail and his boys haven't found one in all these months. But we are still expected to believe that massive numbers of them exist? Sort of makes one wonder if the CIA isn't busy manufacturing a few right at this moment.

HA! "before the soviet flyby...blah blah blah..." your a fuckin JOKE!!! It was YOUR boys who made all of the claims that now CANNOT BE VERIFIED. It would be like they said, prior to the "soviet flyby"..."We know for a fact that the face of PeeWee Hermen is carved into the dark side of the moon". Then, after the flyby comes up empty...Mr. Brainiac Wilson would step up and say..."Well.....it's a very big moon...."

You're a fuckin' joke....

:"We've lost more soldiers than Iraqi civilians have died."

Plain lie...but, then we can expect that everytime she lays her fingers on the keyboard....



Actually, it's true. The small number of civilian deaths in the war IS less then the number of US soldiers killed.

Please don't believe the nonsense you read here or on the laughable iragi body count.

Unbelievable lies.

That said, plenty more of the bad ones need killing quick.

Unbelievable lies...is that in comparison to the believable lies that da shrub has been tellin' ya?

...if you believe ANYTHING this mis-adminstration says...your an idiot rube who would believe anything.....to say more US soldiers than Iraqi civilians died just mean you've had your head up your ass for quite some time...and seem to prefer to leave it there.

"to say more US soldiers than Iraqi civilians died just mean you've had your head up your ass for quite some time...and seem to prefer to leave it there."

Of course more US Soldiers have died than innocent Iraqi citizens. There's not even any serious debate about this.

Please don't tell me you're compounding your known and easily observable idiocy by now claiming that you believe all that bullshit posted at iraq body count and other fantasy sites like it.

You really are an idiot. You'll swallow anything.

Laughable. But still an idiot.

Now then. Let's get to slaughtering these islamic monsters once and for all.

...since the Pentagon will not release it's estimates...what lies are you basing your bullshit claim on?

....oh, that's right...you're a Republican...which means you make up you lies as you go along....

....monkey see, monkey do.....

You're in the same boat as Meyer. All your answers and virtually everything you say is taken out of the same worn-out box. We are here to be entertained by your foolishness, but the same line day in and day out gets old. We can dress it up by spitting on you from different angles, but currently you're pretty much a walking drool factory as it is. Go take a shower, wash your hair, brush your teeth, get a fresh set of clothes, and come back with something fresh and exciting. You've got to step up to the plate and improve.

Most US soldiers don't die in combat; they die a few years later from radiation, chemical, and other types of poisoning. If you right-wing jingos have soldier family members who come home and slowly start getting mysteriously sick, try to keep a straight face when you recount to them what your role in this saddest-to-date chapter in American history has been.

Y'all think you're hot-shots, but are you man enough to go up to a group of armed soldiers and tell them what you continually post here? You man enough to tell them to their face that, in fact, they are cannon fodder and that you believe that cannon fodder is necessary?

Why, you'd grind up human beings and feed them straight into your SUV gas tank for real if your remedial propaganda writing instructor hadn't explained to you what "metaphor" means.

"have soldier family members who come home sick"

No need. Many of us are veterans. We've been in war. We know what's it's like. Have you, or are you just talking out your ass again?

"We are here to be entertained....."

...well then pull up a chair and knock youself out....

...now...what lies are you basing your bullshit claim on again?

We'd all like to. But there's a glitch.

"....oh, that's right...which means you make up you lies as you go along...."

is the same as

"...now...what lies are you basing your bullshit claim on again?"

Nothing new. Get something new or you're putting us in a position wher we'll need to imitate you and do a better job at it. Get to it! Pronto!!

"Why, you'd grind up human beings..."

Interesting choice of words. How many human beings has the Saddam regime put through plastic shredders lately?

NONE.

Yet you absolutely refuse to admit this is a good thing, and refuse to admit it would still be going on had you gotten your way about the war.

That ain't no metaphor; it's the truth.

"Get something new or you're putting us in a position....and do a better job at it."

...the position I see you in is on your knees with mouth agape...and your right, you are doing a better job at it...but don't stop now....that's it...pretend I'm rich...a little slower....aaaahhhhhh!

OK...finished...now...what figures were you basing your "claim" on?

"the position I see you in is on your knees with mouth agape"

What you do with 5 year old boys is your business.

"Of course more US Soldiers have died than innocent Iraqi citizens."

If that is what your puny little non-thought process was asking about, talk to fresca. In the meantime, keep responding to our postings. That's an order.

Oooooh....I'm DEVASTATED!



...fuckin' buttplug.....

I did the below on another thread to give you and example. Now get the the program!! Idiot!!!

---------------------------------------------------

America Plans Evil Years In Advance

by KPC • Thursday August 21, 2003 02:11 PM

This UN bombing couldn't be yet another staged "terror" attack/provocation could it?

To those of us that know the US is pure evil, sure it is. The US has planned this attack on the UN in Iraq since 1983. They knew the neo-cons would steal the election in 2000 and that they needed the oil so they planned 9/11 (911=emergency, get it!) and that the UN would not permit such atrocities, so they needed to get the world community behind the stealing of oil, so they planned this bombing.

The Republicans will lie and tell you different, but that's just what they always do.

------------------------------------------------

Attn: KPC

OK! Now start doing more shit like this. It's entertaining and so fucking stupid that's it's funny. And it sounds just like you idiots here to believe crap like that. Now start posting your regualr stupid shit like above and let's get on with the laughs. Goddamnit, KPC!! Can't you do anything without having to have a picture drawn for you? Idiot!!

Hey, Jr.: I gather that you are a John Wayne-like veteran, not an Oliver Stone kind of veteran. That is your problem, and you haven't said anything that makes sense yet, so we'll leave it at that.

To tpf...something: After about a decade of sanctions that caused starvation in Iraq and thousands of dead, whom do you think it is necessary to kill--becasue violence and killing seem to be something you remedial propagandists are allways trying to justify--in order for there to be peace and prosperity in the world?

...shit, I think you sound a little OVERLY entertained...

...I think you should have a little lie down...you've lost it, dude......



...fuckin' wannabe.....

"Most US soldiers don't die in combat; they die a few years later from radiation, chemical, and other types of poisoning. If you right-wing jingos have soldier family members who come home and slowly start getting mysteriously sick, try to keep a straight face when you recount to them what your role in this saddest-to-date chapter in American history has been.

Y'all think you're hot-shots, but are you man enough to go up to a group of armed soldiers and tell them what you continually post here? You man enough to tell them to their face that, in fact, they are cannon fodder and that you believe that cannon fodder is necessary?

"

Let's just assume that the ludicrous and wholly unsubstantiated claim you've made is true. That ultimately soldiers will die from a variety of causes during war.

So. Are we to understand that because of this ugly and utterly unavoidable aspect of war that we should just stop fighting all together? Is your solution to just allow these koranimals (borrowed term...I wish I had thought of it) continue to attck us and commit atrocity after atrocuty as has been their sole reason for living over the past few decades?

Are you actually saying that we should forego all warfare and defense and allow these savages to keep killing us and all those who they hate?

Perhaps we should just simply disband all the armed forces across the board. That way none of them will ever have to fight and you and your family can have your throats slit in front of a mosque all the sooner.

CADUCADA....

...same ol' tired shit...different fuckin' day...

...but, hey, that's what makes you CADUCADA!

The sanctions? You're really going to blame the deaths of Iraqi civilians due to the sanctions on the US?

HA HA HA HA!

Dude...you are so programmed to hate America.

Let's see here...the US pushed the sanctions through the UN. Then the US forced Saddam to spend the oil-for-food money on palaces, automobiles, and luxuries, thus starving the Iraqis.

Uh huh. Right.

How, exactly, did we force Saddam to spend all that fat cash on himself? "If you don't steal that money, we'll toss some cruise missiles at ya!"

Does that mesh well with your delusion, cowlick?

>shit, I think you sound a little OVERLY entertained...

No, not like I should be entertained by you. You have a purpose, and that's to dance when I say dance. Do your damn job!! Until you can get it right, I will post under you name and it will reflect how you really believe, and we will spit on it since you're already saturated.

Do I have to draw a picture for you every damn time? When are you going to understand simple commands? No wonder you're a liberal. The ability to obey simple commands are a challenge to you. You have to depend upon Big Brother to do all your thinking for you. If Social Security or the welfare system were to go broke, you'd be flat outta luck. You'd die of starvation without someone to show you how to feed yourself. You're not a human. Worse than that, you're not even a man.

"Are you actually saying that we should forego all warfare and defense and allow these savages to keep killing us and all those who they hate?"

For the left, the answer is "yes".

Better to die like a coward than to take the awful chance of hurting the feelings of those freely expressing their religio-cultural idioms.

Or some stupid PC crap like that.

You guys really make me laugh.

You will go to great lengths to rant and rave about the evils of the Iraqi regime and constant UN security council violations......yet when it comes to Israel....

you all change your tune.

Typical hypocrites.

Israel has more human rights abuses against the palestinian people than south africa ever did against black africans.

Israel has more UN security council violations than does Iraq.....

Yet you brainwashed hypocrites (who are quick to pass judgement) will say nothing.

Because its not politically correct.

ps

dont forget to call me a anti semite or a jew hater or somthing else to deflect the real issue at hand

Read up on Inernational law, which are you neo-liberals claim to love so much, yet never can spare the time to make sure that there are no flaws.

Read up on the upper and lower houses or class structure that is also present in the UN, or as we rational people call it, the real UN and the fake UN.

Then maybe you will understand the difference between, binding and non-binding resolutions, and how your actually just taking Syria's world for it.

Isreal could get countess non-binding resoultions against Arab coutries, yet they know it simply a waste of time, and only a few useful idiots on the left actually think this is important, and since your kind has already tried and convicted Isreal because of what some brutal thungs in Libya said, what would be the point?

"There will be no peace in the Middle East until the Arabs love their children more than they hate the Jews."

excuse me Mr "hey system" but befor you go preaching you might want to learn how to spell Israel and list relevant links to your "truths".

Bushit admirer.

One side is good?

What does the word "good" mean?

I'll be waiting for your reply.

I love how you brainwashed neocons love to say the UN is good in this aspect and bad i this aspect.

Its pretty much whetever your God GW tells you to believe.

What a shame.

"i cant belive al queda is offering 5000 dollars to kill and american soldier...how evil!!!"

"Yeah, i think its ok for the US and Israel to pay others to assasinate other political figures"

"We support the UN"

......."unless they dont vote our way...."

hypocrites.

The UN is good at some things and horrible at others, unless you actually have any evidence to the contrary

The UN is good at disturbing aid and peacekeeping. However it is horrible at peacemaking and up holding human rights.

Take Somalia for example, while it is truly regrettable that millions died, it is utterly disgraceful that this occurred when millions of tones of American food aid, (gain) stayed in factors in near by. Once again the "great" UN was humbled and told where to stick by a third rate African warlord with a few Soviet supplied AK-47's.

Sadly, most wars have to exhaust themselves out before the UN is able to step in. Such as Rwanda, since we in the west do not have to be made aware of the countess deaths of drug pumped 12 year old Africans that die at ten times the rate during the height of the Iraqi war, because American media won’t cover it unless American lives are at risk.

While the so called anti-war movement, seems opposed to stopping any of the 20 plus current active wars that are going on without direct American involvement, as if they are not worth are time or interest.

George Bush is a moron; he is nothing more than a figure head being used to push an agenda. Rest assured the "Bush" doctrine is not his own creation, and I would be concerned if he was "actually" running the show. However, the fact that he is not the brightest light on the street doesn’t make your position any stronger.

Statistically morons will still be right now and then, due to chance not intelligence.

Are all humans created equal?

If so why does the international decree on human rights only have to be upheld in some countries, and why those who do not agree with basic human rights are still allowed to lead this group?

Libya is chairing the committee on human rights this year; do you really think anything is going to get done? Of course not, if sheep wish to live in a peaceful herd they can as long as they don’t invite any wolves to join, as then it all goes to hell.

Or as Martin Luther King said it best, Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere

Now should we help the oppressed people in the world? As only intervention can minimize their suffering. Or shall we pretend that we are different races and every human uniqueness is somehow a justice flyable excuse to sit on our asses.

Education- means the search for truth

Thus it should be up to you to find it, for yourself, it means hard work, but it is worth it. If it will help you, I can suggest a good place to start.

http://www.cwps.org/brochure.htm#a

This is a site that describes some of the current problems facing the UN but it is only a starting point.

some bable

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge"

-Hawkins

History repeats itself. That is a good one, now take it to the next level and ask why?

"Perhaps our greatness tragedy is that we forget our tragedies"

-a very wise man

"...you lefties..."

Why are you so against left-handed people? Idiot.

Left-handed people should be shot.

So should Sherman.

Hopefully he'll die in prison.

So, in other words, you want somebody to shoot you? Post your home address.