Debunking Conspiracy Theorists Paranoid Fantasies About 911 Detract From Real Issues
By Gerard Holmgren
c. 2003 Gerard Holmgren
2-15-3

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Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will usually be at least one ,often several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it. "The CIA killed Hendrix" " The Pope had John Lennon murdered ", "Hitler was half Werewolf", "Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone" etc,etc. The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it.
So its hardly surprising that the events of Sept 11 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis.
One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11, and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."
Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.
Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories.
These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - linked to the CIA, the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours ,crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.
The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more preposturous stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus the tale has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions.
It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed. Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog , they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as "the fruit loop" and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (ill)logical conclusions.
According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, 19 Arabs took over the 4 planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns,knives,box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets.
The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist. For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes. If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists. But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist. With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID ( but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious. However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched ? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage.
"Excuse me sir, why do you have a boxcutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?"
"A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get."
"Very strange", thinks the security officer. "That's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or boxcutter and gas mask. And why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess..."
Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane? But by this time ,the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis.They will allege that the hijackers' passports were found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity.
Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated,and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently, "Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!" And so the whole loop starts again. "Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?"
"You numbskull! They assumed the identities of other passengers!" And so on...
Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion , the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unraveling of this marvelously stupid story.
"Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? " The answer of course is that its just one of those strange co-incidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen...
This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The "improbability drive" , in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to support it, and then continually speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world). There is a principle called "Occam's razor" which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct. Conspiracy theorists hate Occam's razor.
Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with with the silly story of the 19 invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes.
Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the pilot being able to alert ground control is near impossible. The pilot has only to punch in a four digit code to alert ground control to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that Sept 11, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the rather crude method of threatening people with boxcutters and knives, and spraying gas (after they had attached their masks, obviously), but somehow took control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code. Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive.
So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of "our freedoms" , it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will to do this. Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar -really impeccable Islamic behavior - and then got up at 5am the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find.
It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skillfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to US intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist , too trapped in the constant rotation of the mental fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi-believable.
Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that the plane was packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash.
Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and mange to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vapourizing the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along.
There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load! Remarkable! Sluggishly combustible jet fuel which is basically kerosine,and which burns at a maximum temperature of around 800 C has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vapourizing 65 tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that a plane of that size contains around 15 tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about double that of the maximum combustion temperature of kerosine - let alone the boiling point - which is what would be required to vapourize a plane. And then there's about 50 tons of aluminium to be accounted for. In excess of 15lbs of metal for each gallon of kerosine.
For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely dismissed as "mumbo jumbo". This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating explosive qualities of kerosine, something hitherto completely unknown to science, but just discovered by them, this very minute. Blissfully ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation history has a plane vapourized into nothing from an exploding fuel load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the effects are are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the intellects of these cretins.
"Its a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on impact." they state with pompous certainty. "Watch any Bruce Willis movie."
"Care to provide any documented examples? If it's a well known fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of documentation - other than Bruce Willis movies ?"
At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist will narrow as they sense the corner that they have backed themselves into, and plan their escape by means of another stunning backflip.
"Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so there's no way of telling." they counter with a sly grin.
Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before and since, and not vapourized into nothing.
"But not big planes, with that much fuel ", they shriek in hysterical denial.
Or that much metal to vapourize.
"Yes but not hijacked planes!"
"Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?"
"Now you're just being silly".
Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the ground,or have bombs planted aboard them, and don't vapourize into nothing. What's so special about a tower that's mostly glass? But by now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the fruit loop. "Its a well documented fact that planes explode into nothing on impact."
Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its a "well known fact" and that "its never happened before, so we have nothing to compare it to", the conspiracy theorist has now convinced themselves ( if not too many other people) that the WTC plane was not loaded with explosives, and that the instant vapourization of the plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you might care to mention. Round and round the fruit. loop...
But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many, and they are now forced to implement even more creative uses for the newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of kerosine. They have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant veritcal collapse of both the WTC towers, and for this awkward fact the easiest counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning kerosine.
For this, its necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose kerosine which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball , vapourizing a 65 ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000C for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And while it was doing all this it also poured down the elevator shafts, starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there was a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Gleefully, they claim that a few thousand gallons of kerosine is enough to
: completely vapourize a 65 ton aircraft
: have enough left over to burn ferociously enough for over an hour at the impact point to melt steel ( melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel )
: still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all through the building.
This kerosine really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those kerosine heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vapourized. And never again will I take kerosine lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp - the next - kapow! Vapourized into nothing along with with the rest of the camp site, and still leaving enough of the deadly stuff to start a massive forest fire.
These whackos are actually claiming that the raging inferno allegedly created by the miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning kerosine melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the smoke coming from the WTC was black, which indicates an oxygen starved fire -therefore, not particularly hot, they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 C , without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics.
Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel frames softened, they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways.
Since they're already re-engineered the combustion qualities of jet fuel, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and re-defined the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way?
The tower fell in a time almost identical to that of a free falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that its physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of Sept 11. It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knew no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the tower at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures originally designed to resist many tons of hurricane force wind as well as the impact of a Boeing passenger jet straying off course.
Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why.
"Muslim terrorists stole my notes, sir"
"No miss, the kerosine heater blew up and vapourized everything in the street, except for my passport."
"You see sir, the schoolbus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed my homework because they hate our freedoms."
Or perhaps they misunderstood the term "creative science" and mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their science homework.
The ferocious heat generated by this ghastly kerosine was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can't be identified. DNA is destroyed by heat. (Although 2000 C isn't really required, 100C will generally do the job.) This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city.
That's right! If you are killed by an Arab terrorist in NY, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington DC, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vapourize a 65 ton aircraft.
You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane. The plane was vapourized by the fuel tank explosion maintain these space loonies, but the people inside it were all but one identified by DNA testing.
So there we have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending upon which city you're in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story you're trying to sell at any particular time.
This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of the Pentagon, it consists of 5 rings of building, each with a space inbetween. Each ring of building is about 30 to 35 ft deep, with a similar amount of open space between it and the next ring. The object which penetrated the Pentagon went in at about a 45 degree angle, punching a neat circular hole of about a 12 ft diameter through three rings ( six walls).A little later a section of wall about 65 ft wide collapsed in the outer ring. Since the plane which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact had a wing span of 125 ft and a length of 155 ft, and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is clearly physically impossible.
But hey, we've already disregarded the combustion qualities of jet fuel, the normal properties of common building materials, the properties of DNA, the laws of gravity and the second law of thermodynamics, so what the hell - why not throw in a little spatial impossibility as well ? I would have thought that the observation that a solid object cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the conspiracy theorist, this is "mumbo jumbo". It conflicts with the delusion that they're hooked on, so it "must be wrong" although trying to get then to explain exactly how it could be wrong is a futile endeavour.
Conspiracy theorists fly into a curious panic whenever the Pentagon missile is mentioned.They nervously maintain that the plane was vapourized by it's exploding fuel load and point to the WTC crash as evidence of this behavior. (That's a wonderful fruit loop.) Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the hole is so small is that plane never entered the wall, having blown up outside, and then suddenly backflip to explain the 250 ft deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way into the building, and then blew up inside the building (even though the building shows no sign of such damage). As for what happened to the wings - here's where they get really creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the plane like a piece of meat.
When it suits them, they'll also claim that the plane slid in on its belly, (ignoring the undamaged lawn) while at the same time citing alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from an "irrecoverable angle." How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is truly a study in stupidity.
Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes. Little green men were seen were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to the attacks.
As the nation gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and stop his perpetual oil war, it's not helpful to have these idiots distracting from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the extremist Bush regime.
At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery that was perpetrated on Sept 11, and the subsequent war crimes committed in "retaliation" are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous self indulgence to go unchallenged.
Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a more appropriate outlet for their paranoia.
Its time to stop loony conspiracy theories about Sept 11.

...from these kooks is that the reason the criminally corrupt Bush Junta wants to prevent honest investigations into what actually occurred is to protect the sacred sacrament of "National Security". All lower your heads in prayer.

where is the plane and 58 passengers that have vanished. I ask because one was a co-worker.

Why exactly were the flights so
underbooked? Also note the list.
These were directors and vice chairmen
and family mostly. These flights were
booked in quantities of passengers
far too low to justify the fuel. There
were quite a few VIPs in my opinion.
Also, they sure were doing a blatant
series of arial doughnuts over statelines....
For a hour and a half at least.

>These flights were booked in quantities of passengers far too low to justify the fuel.

You're a dumbass.

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 11

American Airlines Flight 11, from Boston, Massachusetts, to Los Angeles, California, crashed
into the north tower of the World Trade Center with 86 people on board, none of whom were
alleged hijackers or Arabs

CREW

John Ogonowski, 52, of Dracut, Massachusetts, was the pilot of Flight 11. A lifelong aviation
buff, he joined the Air Force after graduating from college and flew planes at the close of the
Vietnam War. He joined American Airlines in 1979.
First Officer Thomas McGuinness, 42, of Portsmouth, New Hampshire, was Flight 11's co-pilot.

Barbara Arestegui, 38, was a flight attendant from Marstons Mills, Massachusetts.
Jeffrey Collman was a flight attendant.
Sara Low, 28, was a flight attendant from Batesville, Arkansas.
Karen Martin was a flight attendant.
Kathleen Nicosia was a flight attendant.
Betty Ong, 45, was a flight attendant from Andover, Massachusetts.
Jean Roger, 24, was a flight attendant from Longmeadow, Massachusetts.
Dianne Snyder, 42, was a flight attendant from Westport, Massachusetts.
Madeline Sweeney, 35, was a flight attendant from Acton, Massachusetts.


PASSENGERS

Anna Williams Allison, 48, of Stoneham, Massachusetts, was the founder of A2 Software
Solutions. ,
David Angell, 54, of Pasadena, California, was the creator and executive producer of the hit
NBC sitcom "Frasier."
Lynn Angell, 45, of Pasadena, California, was the wife of "Frasier" creator and executive
producer David Angell.
Seima Aoyama
Myra Aronson, 52, of Charlestown, Massachusetts, was a press and analyst relations manager
for Compuware Corp.
Christine Barbuto, 32, of Brookline, Massachusetts, was a buyer for TJX Cos.
Berry Berenson, 53, of Los Angeles, California, was an actress and photographer.
Carolyn Beug, 48, of Los Angeles, California.
Carol Bouchard, 43, of Warwick, Rhode Island, was a Kent County Hospital emergency room
secretary.
Robin Caplin was from Natick, Massachusetts.
Neilie Casey, 32, of Wellesley, Massachusetts, was a merchandise planning manager for TJX
Cos.,
Jeffrey Coombs, 42, of Abington, Massachusetts, was a security analyst for Compaq Computer.
H
Tara Creamer, 30, of Worcester, Massachusetts, was a merchandise planning manager for TJX
Cos.
Thelma Cuccinello, 71, was a Wilmot, New Hampshire, resident with 10 grandchildren.
Patrick Currivan
Andrew Curry Green was from Chelmsford, Massachusetts.
Brian Dale, 43, of Warren, New Jersey, was an accountant and attorney with Blue Capital
Management.
David DiMeglio was from Wakefield, Massachusetts.
Donald Ditullio, 49, was from Peabody, Massachusetts.
Albert Dominguez, 66, was a baggage handler for Qantas Airways in Sydney, Australia.
Alex Filipov, 70, was an electrical engineer from Concord, Massachusetts.
Carol Flyzik, 40, was from Plaistow, New Hampshire.
Paul Friedman, 45, from Belmont, Massachusetts, was a consultant for Emergence Consulting.
Karleton D.B. Fyfe, 31, of Brookline, Massachusetts, was a senior investment analyst for John
Hancock.
Peter Gay, 54, of Tewksbury, Massachusetts, was a Raytheon Co. vice president of operations
for electronic systems based in Andover, Massachusetts. He had worked for Raytheon for more
than 28 years.
Linda George, 27, of Westboro, Massachusetts, was a buyer for TJX Cos.
Edmund Glazer, 41, of Los Angeles, California, was the chief financial officer of MRV
Communications.
Lisa Fenn Gordenstein, 41, of Needham, Massachusetts, was an assistant vice president, for TJX
Cos.
Paige Farley Hackel, 46, was a spiritual adviser from Newton, Massachusetts.
Peter Hashem, 40, was an engineer from Tewksbury, Massachusetts.
Robert Hayes, 37, from Amesbury, Massachusetts was a sales engineer with Netstal.
Ted Hennessy, 35, was a consultant for Emergence Consulting in Belmont, Massachusetts.
John Hofer
Cora Holland, 52, of Sudbury, Massachusetts, was with Sudbury Food Pantry.
Nicholas Humber, 60, of Newton, Massachusetts, was the owner of Brae Burn Management.
John Jenkins
Charles Jones, 48, was a computer programmer from Bedford, Massachusetts.
Robin Kaplan, 33, of Westboro, Massachusetts, was a senior store equipment specialist for TJX
Cos.
Barbara Keating, 72, was from Palm Springs, California.
David Kovalcin, 42, of Hudson, New Hampshire, was a Raytheon Co. senior mechanical
engineer.
Judy Larocque, 50, of Framingham, Massachusetts, was the founder and CEO of Market
Perspectives.
Jude Larson, 31, was from Los Angeles, California.
Natalie Larson was from Los Angeles, California.
N. Janis Lasden, 46, of General Electric was from Peabody, Massachusetts.
Daniel John Lee, 34, was from Los Angeles, California.
Daniel C. Lewin, 31, was the co-founder and chief technology officer at Akamai Technologies
Inc.
Susan MacKay, 44, of Westford, Massachusetts, was an employee of TJX Cos.
Chris Mello, 25, was a financial analyst with Alta Communications from Boston.
Jeff Mladenik, 43, of Hinsdale, Illinois, was the interim president at E-Logic.
Antonio Montoya
Carlos Montoya
Laura Lee Morabito, 34, was the Qantas Airways area sales manager in Boston. She lived in
Framingham, Mass.
Mildred Naiman was from Andover, Massachusetts.
Laurie Neira
Renee Newell, 37, of Cranston, Rhode Island, was a customer service agent with American
Airlines.
Jacqueline Norton, 60, was a retiree from Lubec, Maine. She was traveling with her husband,
Robert Norton.
Robert Norton, 82, was a retiree from Lubec, Maine. He was traveling with his wife, Jacqueline
Norton.
Jane Orth, 49, of Haverhill, Massachusetts, was retired from Lucent Technology.
Thomas Pecorelli, 31, of Los Angeles, California, was a cameraman for Fox Sports and E!
Entertainment Television.
Sonia Morales Puopolo, 58, of Dover, Massachusetts, was a retired ballet dancer.
David Retik was from Needham, Massachusetts. He was a general partner of Alta
Communications.
Philip Rosenzweig of Acton, Massachusetts, was an executive with Sun Microsystems.
Richard Ross, 58, of Newton, Massachusetts, headed his own management consulting company,
the Ross Group.
Jessica Sachs, 22, of Billerica, Massachusetts was an accountant with PricewaterhouseCoopers.
Rahma Salie, 28, was from Boston.
Heather Smith, 30, of Beacon Capital Partners was from Boston.
Douglas Stone, 54, was from Dover, New Hampshire.
Xavier Suarez
Michael Theodoridis, 32, was a consultant from Boston.
James Trentini, 65, was a retired teacher and assistant principal from Everett, Massachusetts.
Mary Trentini, 67, was a retired secretary from Everett, Massachusetts.
Mary Wahlstrom, 75, of Kaysville, Utah, was traveling with her daughter, Carolyn Beug.
Kenneth Waldie, 46, of Methuen, Massachusetts, was a Raytheon Co. senior quality control
engineer.
John Wenckus, 46, was a tax consultant from Torrance, California.
Candace Lee Williams, 20, was a student from Danbury, Connecticut.
Christopher Zarba, 47, of Hopkinton, Massachusetts, was a software engineer at Concord
Communications.

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77

American Airlines Flight 77, from Washington to Los Angeles, crashed into the Pentagon with
56 people aboard, none of whom were alleged hijackers or Arabs.

CREW

Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He had more than 20 years
of experience flying with American Airlines and was a former U.S. Navy pilot.
David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer
on the flight.
Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. S
Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant
Kenneth Lewis.
Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant
Jennifer Lewis.
Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.


PASSENGERS

Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of
Health.
Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.
M.J. Booth
Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington.
Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.
William Caswell
Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in
Washington.
Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington.
James Debeuneure, 58, of Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School
in Washington.
Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington.
Eddie Dillard
Charles Droz
Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las
Vegas.
Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at
ECOlogic Corp.
Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and
Leslie Whittingham.
Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and
Leslie Whittingham.
Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education
outreach program in Washington.
Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American
Airlines pilot.
Dee Flagg
Richard Gabriel
Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.
Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.
Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.
Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of
Metrocall Inc.
Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society.
Yvonne Kennedy
Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.
Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding.
Norma Langsteuerle
Dong Lee
Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, worked for a biotech firm.
Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of
Work-Life Benefits.
Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN.
Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.
Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.
Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of
Genzyme.
Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.
John Sammartino
Diane Simmons
George Simmons
Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the
University of California.
Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.
Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington.
Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.
Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland.
John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.
Vicki Yancey
Shuyin Yang
Yuguag Zheng

UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 175

United Airlines Flight 175, from Boston, Massachusetts, to Los Angeles, California, was the
second hijacked plane to strike the World Trade Center South Tower) with 56 people on board.
No alleged hikackers or anyone of Arab name or obvious descent.

CREW

Capt. Victor Saracini, 51, of Lower Makefield Township, Pennsylvania, was a Navy veteran.
Michael Horrocks was first officer.
Robert J. Fangman was a flight attendant.
Amy N. Jarret, 28, of North Smithfield, Rhode Island, was a flight attendant.
Amy R. King was a flight attendant.
Kathryn L. Laborie was a flight attendant.
Alfred G. Marchand of Alamogordo, New Mexico, was a flight attendant.
Michael C. Tarrou was a flight attendant.
Alicia N. Titus was a flight atteandant.

PASSENGERS

Alona Avraham, 30, was from Ashdot, Israel.
Garnet "Ace" Bailey, 53, of Lynnfield, Massachusetts, was director of pro scouting for the Los
Angeles Kings hockey team. Mark Bavis, 31, of West Newton, Massachusetts.
Graham Berkeley, 37, of Xerox Corp. was from Wellesley, Massachusetts.
Touri Bolourchi, 69, was from Beverly Hills, California.
Klaus Bothe, 31, of Germany was on a business trip with BCT Technology AG's chief executive
officer.
Daniel Brandhorst, of Los Angeles, California, was a lawyer for PriceWaterhouse.
David Brandhorst, 3, was from Los Angeles.
John Cahill was from Wellesley, Massachusetts.
Christoffer Carstanjen, 33, of Turner Falls, Massachusetts, was staff assistant in the office of
information technology at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst.
John Corcoran "Jay" Corcoran, 44, of Norwell, Massachusetts, was a merchant marine.
Dorothy Dearaujo, 82, was from Long Beach, California.
Gloria Debarrera
Lisa Frost, 22, of Rancho Santa Margarita, California, graduated from Boston University this
year.
Ronald Gamboa, 33, of Los Angeles, California, was a Gap store manager.
Lynn Goodchild, 25, was from Attleboro, Massachusetts.
The Rev. Francis E. Grogan, 76, of Easton, Massachusetts, was a priest at Holy Cross Church in
Easton.
Carl Hammond, 37, was from Boston, Massachusetts.
Peter Hanson, 32, of Groton, Massachusetts, was a software salesman.
Susan Hanson, 35, of Groton, Massachusetts, was a student.
Christine Hanson, 3, was from Groton, Massachusetts.
Gerald Hardacre
Eric Hartono
James E. Hayden, 47, of Westford, Massachusetts, was the chief financial officer of Netegrity
Inc.
Herbert Homer,48, of Milford, Massachusetts, worked for Raytheon Co.
Robert Jalbert, 61, of Swampscott, Massachusetts, was a salesman.
Ralph Kershaw, 52, of Manchester-by-the-Sea, Massachusetts, was a marine surveyor.
Heinrich Kimmig, 43, chairman and chief executive officer of BCT Technology Ag, of
Germany.
Brian Kinney, 29, of Lowell, Massachusetts, was an auditor for PriceWaterhouse Cooper.
Robert LeBlanc, 70, of Lee, New Hampshire, was a professor emeritus of geography at the
University of New Hampshire.
Maclovio "Joe" Lopez Jr., 41, was from Norwalk, California.
Marianne MacFarlane
Louis Neil Mariani, 59, was from Derry, New Hampshire.
Juliana Valentine McCourt, 4, was from New London, Connecticut.
Ruth McCourt, 24, was from Westford, Massachusetts.
Wolfgang Menzel, 60, of Germany joined BCT Technology AG in 2000 as director of human
resources. He is survived by his wife and one child. Menzel had planned to retire in six months.
Shawn Nassaney, 25, was from Pawtucket, Rhode Island.
Patrick Quigley, 40, of Wellesley, Massachusetts, was a partner at PriceWaterhouse Cooper.
Frederick Rimmele was a physician from Marblehead, Massachusetts.
James M. Roux, 42, was from Portland, Maine.
Jesus Sanchez, 45, was an off-duty flight attendant from Hudson, Massachusetts.
Kathleen Shearer was from Dover, New Hampshire.
Robert Shearer was from Dover, New Hampshire.
Jane Simpkin, 35, was from Wayland, Massachusetts.
Brian D. Sweeney, 38, was from Barnstable, Massachusetts.
Timothy Ward, 38, of San Diego, California, worked at the Carlsbad, California-based Rubio's
Restaurants Inc.
William Weems of Marblehead, Massachusetts, was a commercial producer.

UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 93

United Airlines Flight 93, from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, California, crashed in
rural southwest Pennsylvania, with 45 people on board, none of whom were alleged hijackers or
Arabs.

CREW

Jason Dahl, 43, from Denver, Colorado, was the plane's captain.
Leroy Homer, 36, from Marlton, New Jersey, was the first officer on board.
Lorraine Bay was a flight attendant.
Sandra Bradshaw, 38, of Greensboro, North Carolina, was a flight attendant.
Wanda Green was a flight attendant.
CeeCee Lyles of Fort Myers, Florida, was a flight attendant.
Deborah Welsh was a flight attendant.

PASSENGERS

Christian Adams
Todd Beamer, 32, was from Cranbury, New Jersey.
Alan Beaven, 48, of Oakland, California, was an environmental lawyer.
Mark Bingham, 31, of San Francisco owned a public relations firm, the Bingham Group.
Deora Bodley, 20, of Santa Clara, California, was a university student.
Marion Britton
Thomas E. Burnett Jr., 38, of San Ramon, California.
William Cashman
Georgine Corrigan
Joseph Deluca
Patrick Driscoll
Edward Felt, 41, was from Matawan, New Jersey.
Colleen Fraser
Andrew Garcia
Jeremy Glick, 31, from West Milford, New Jersey.
Lauren Grandcolas of San Rafael, California, was a sales worker at Good Housekeeping
magazine.
Donald F. Green, 52, was from Greenwich, Connecticut.
Linda Gronlund
Richard Guadagno, 38, of Eureka, California, was the manager of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service's Humboldt Bay National Wildlife Refuge.
Toshiya Kuge
Waleska Martinez
Nicole Miller
Mark Rothenberg
Christine Snyder, 32, was from Kailua, Hawaii. She was an arborist for the Outdoor Circle.
John Talignani
Honor Wainio

>These flights were booked in quantities of passengers far too low to justify the fuel.

You're a dumbass because how one determines the the amount of fuel necessary for any particular flight is not based upon the "quantities of passengers".

I thought cost indicated a schedule on these normally well
booked flights that didn't waste fuel on low amounts of passengers.
excuse me, you're the expert here. Allow me to ask you another question. Wouldn't the low passenger lists be
unusual?

>I thought cost indicated a schedule on these normally well booked flights that didn't waste fuel on low amounts of passengers.

Let me help you rephrase your first statement given what you just said above.

>These flights were booked in quantities of passengers far too low to justify the fuel.

should have been written

>These flights were booked in quantities of passengers far too low to justify the fuel COST.

That would have made it clear.

I'm a commercial rated pilot who worked for the airlines, but I now fly private charters. Booked flights typically fly. Just because this flight was not full capacity doesn't mean the plane didn't need to reach the next destination for its flight which WAS booked to capacity. And the flight after that, and the flight after that.......

>Wouldn't the low passenger lists be unusual?

Given what I just told you, No.

Actually, I'm not a pilot. I'm a zionist who's fond of cyberterrorism. Please visit my site!

www.kobehq.com

Yes, the planes weren't full. If you were to hijack an airliner, what would you do? If you were smart, you'd observe patterns and determine the time of day that airliners fly with few passengers -- to decrease your chance of being thwarted.

You'd discover that this time was early morning, mid-week.

If you were smart, you'd let me eat your cum.

Actually, you're an obnixious asswipe.

Do you always have conversations with yourself?

Do you always beat your wife?

I guess the answer to my question is "yes." Try shopping at Wal-Mart for a straightjacket.

My God! You are so right! I knew it the day it happened. It follows a pattern and precedent established back during the Reagan administration. I am not fooled and I'm happy to see you are not either. As more information leaks out and others begin to put the facts of the timeline together, hopefully enough people will awaken in time to prevent a kind of Armageddon against peace and reason. Please, everyone--learn the lessons of recent history so we are not doomed to mass destruction of our rights, democracy, and liberties. If there was ever a potential for a World War Three this time is becoming ripe.

I just wanted to state that I am a lowly lab technician in a DNA research facility. I worked my way through college and was in the Air Force (inspected jets for microscopic flaws - in the metals) for quite a long time. I am also just some stupid conspiricy nut. Anytime I mention anomalies concerning 911, I am treated like a paranoiac at work and at home. I give up. I just want some real answers, something other than the garbage I am fed through the major news outlets. I have recently begun to believe that either people are extremely brainwashed by the tv, or they are subconsciously cognizant of the inconsistencies surrounding 911, but desire tSUV driving habits.

...yes they are brainwashed. The mainstream Presstitutes are not to be trusted. Television News is controlled by just 5 Conglomerates who are in turn controlled by a very small group of people with names like Rockefeller, Morgan, Brown, Harriman, et. al., ... They own you - or at least they would like to think they do.

Do a Google on "Operation Mockingbird" or go to WhatReallyHappened.com and click on his Operation Mockingbird Archive.

There are other reasons why television is bad one of which is that the flicker rate of the 2 to 1 interlace used in creating the video image puts you into a semi-trance state making the viewer more "suggestible". To test this ask yourself: Have I ever set in front of the TV almost mesmerized flipping from channel to channel (surfing) with nothing that I really want to watch but still watching nevertheless? For most people it will be yes. You have experience the hypnotic effect of the Television flicker rate. This has been known since the Thirties and a number of studies have been done on it validating the reality of this "trance state" induced by the Television.

Solution: Don't watch Television. I am now going on 3 months without once turning it on. And yes there is life after TV. Tune out and turn on to life.

Play it again Sam.

Hmm unfortunatly the print media is brainwashing you. lots of the same people own lots of newspapers- and they put codes into the letters to talk directly to the brain.. just like the bible code.
oh and the radio watchout for the secret messages on slightly higher than you can hear (xonsiously) wavelengths.
Infact whenever you talk to anyone who works for has worked for or ever will work for any government agency (for example the fire department) they have been trained to sneek brainwashing words into their sentances at strategic points.
personally i suggest you stay home and done tell ANYONE about it.
you can also dontate all your money to me so that I can keep alerting you to these things.
thanks

...so little content.

Scottie: I would call you an imbecile, but I repeat myself.

If I had a nickel for everytime someone called me an imbecile, I'd be a rich moron.

I read it.
It's must be sarcasm. It's too crude to be farce.

sheepdog gets the $10 prize.
But my point is Why dont you believe it?
surely it is all possible. just as possible as the TV infact easier as radio and newspaper tend to be smaller operations with less people that you have to control (and keep as part of the conspiracy) when you create this system.

And you Diogenes are a certified genius are you?

Not wishing to be unkind, I think you need to proofread what
you type. As some of your posts have garbled punctuation. For example:
[surely it is all possible. just as possible as the TV [and] in [ ] fact [,] easier [;]
as radio and
newspaper tend to be smaller operations with less people that you
have to
control (and keep as part of the conspiracy) when you create this
system.]
See what I mean?
Now we deal with your point of conjecture.
These million dollar a year salaried talking heads would rather (sorry Dan,
you're part of it; remember lying about the direction of JFK's head as the
fatal shoot was fired?) cut off their nuts with the lid of a tin can before they
endangered that kind of pay by telling what they knew was
pure shit to be something besides chocolate pudding.
Now about that ten note.

I'm mentally unstable.

One more time with feeling.

Not wishing to be unkind, I think you need to proofread what you type.

punctuation is the man trying to keep me down :)
as long as you can understand me I recon I'm alright.

- as to the media people well i guess they retire (or die) just like everyone else there is always a point where people have nothing left to loose.

and give up that six figure+ job.

...(and I'm sure the Trolls would fight for the privilege), but I believe:

Tom Brokejaw is in his 70's

And

Dan Blather and Peter Lemming are both in their mid to late 60's.

These guys will be like Cronkite - pushed out the door before they'll retire. Their size 20 egos in size 7 Souls will admit of no other solution.

The "Anti-Zionist" (wink, wink) crowd have alot of time to post all sorts of rationalizations for their, ahem, deep concern for the poor oppressed and staunchly peace-loving PALESTINIANS, yet there seems to be a shortage of available time to answer a simple question which gets posed over and over.

How is the term "occupation" related to the actions of Israel in connection with land that is, by any fair and logical set of standards, their OWN land?

Please explain where this notion of "occupation" comes from.

Am I guilty of "occupying" my house and somehow oppressing some noble group of non-homeowners?

Please see if any of you can spare a moment to give this some thought.

...believe Israelis are occupying Palestinian land:

I assume you will be turning your houses and land over to the indigenous peoples who lived there before you came along?

There is a BIG difference between the current state of affairs in Israel and the current state of affairs in the US. The individual Palestinians that were displaced by Israel are still alive. These individuals deserve justice. One cannot go back in time and undo injustices against those who have already died. The issue in Palestine is that individual living Palestinians have been displaced from their homes and brutalized by the Israeli regime. We still have time to undo this injustice. We cannot undo the injustice against Native Americans. What we can do for Native Americans is to remove ongoing discrimination against existing Native Americans and respect the sovereignty of their nations. The US should let Native Americans living on land for which treaties exist rule themselves as they see fit and stay out of their affairs.

...several Arab nations lost the disputed territories when they launched a war of aggression against Israel with the intention of wiping it off the map.

So, then we should give back all lands we won in battle?

When are you moving out?

The Israeli's used the Saber Rattling Military exercises of the Arab Nations to launch a pre-emptive attack and were in no real danger at any time.

Sound familiar?

"The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.

"The Israeli's used the Saber Rattling Military exercises of the Arab Nations to launch a pre-emptive attack and were in no real danger at any time. "

Absolutely. Those arab states had no intention of actually deploying any of the thousands of ammased soldiers, mechanized forces and air support that they suddenly found themselves with on three borders of Israel.

It was all just "sabre-rattling".

Probably masterminded by the filthy JEW mossad.

The absolute nerve of Israel to assume an attack and defend itself.

Has anyone else noticed that it is the Zionists that use anti-Semitic remarks on this forum?

For example, I have yet to see an opponent of Zionism use the phrase "filthy JEW." However, I've seen fresca spewing this and other comments of this sort frequently.

Isn't it a sign of paranoia to think that everyone is out to get you and to think that everyone is thinking that you're some kind of "dirty X," whatever that X may be?

Now, fresca the fascist will whine about Hitler's misdeeds, but those were the misdeeds of Hitler and his German followers more than 50 years ago. As an Irish lass, I don't worry that everyone, when thinking of the Irish, is actually thinking "drunken Irish sod," despite the English imposed potato famine and the abuse by Anglo-Americans when my ancestors came here.

...trying in vain to distract again from the molest issue - that bush and the rest of them thugs did 911.

"Isn't it a sign of paranoia to think that everyone is out to get you and to think that everyone is thinking that you're some kind of "dirty X," whatever that X may be? "

Annie you dirty knacker you, you are correct.

But actually, since I am A) not in the least bit Jewsish and B) know that most of the informed people in the world agree that Israel is in the right, I'd say that your theory doesn't apply here.

I only refer to actual racists like Dio et.al. as racist.

Most of the world, thankfully, is not.

Even if they didnt plan on attacking in 1967 it is a good lesson to the world.

why do you amass troups on someones boarder.
two possibilities - you want to kill them or you want to blackmail them with threats of violence.
which of these do you want to encourage?

If they did not plan on attacking what they did was analigous to running into a police station with a gun and waving it around. sure you didnt shoot first but your an IDIOT! and we cant afford to encourage people to do reckless things like that.

Basically if you threaten someone you better be willing ot follow through

All is all involved, you know, very few major incidence are by
accident. The Grand Chessboard, how appropriate; the moves are made with flesh and blood by players who never touch the board. Not even to sweep up the pieces. Just to win The GAME. Much bad karma, people, the wheel keeps moving.
What will it take to turn it from its present course?

"For example, I have yet to see an opponent of Zionism use the phrase "filthy JEW." However, I've seen fresca spewing this and other comments of this sort frequently."

One word for ya, Annie babe: Sarcasm.

Why are leftists-anarchists so seriously lacking a sense of humor?

That's probably why they're the way they are. Either that, or the wheat-bran muffins just aren't working.

The shadow elite called. They'd like you to be quiet before you spill the beans.

maybe its best if you just let the shadow people win..
You obviously dont stand a chance anyway.

"Why are leftists-anarchists so seriously lacking a sense of humor?"

Gee, I don't know. Why are YOU so seriously lacking intelligence?

Prove it.

Putz.

trying in vain to distract readers from the point:
that bush and his gang of traitors did 911 as the article brilliantly shows.

What loss? You can only kill me. We all die. Murduk rules.

To you and your twisted little mind, perhaps.

But if you had two neurons tuned to the specified spark gap, you'd see what a load of crap the whole "Bush did 9/11" psychosis is.

he worships a god, you know...
He's not very grounded in reality.

...that's a bad thing, Sheepdog.

Yeah, it just stinks having a higher purpose, a reason to go on when everything's crap, a reason to celebrate when everyhting's great.

I was once an atheist. I didn't know how empty my life was until God filled it.

Try it, Sheepdog...you'll like it.

for the mind.
Murduk rules and he doesn't care. Get used to it fish boy.

In addition to God, what other fairy tales do you believe in? The tooth fairy? Santa Claus? The Easter bunny? In any case, you are a source of great entertainment.

What fairytales do you believe in?
maybe the holy book of Chomski..

Anyway as to philosophy - at some point you must declare by faith that you believe somthing because you can not KNOW anything. At least some people know what those declarations of faith are.

"...at some point you must declare by faith that you believe somthing because you can not KNOW anything."

This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are a naive fool.

naive?
doesnt that mean thinking you know somthing but being wrong because you dont know enough? I have just stated that faith is a way of constructing a workable framework so that you can actually live a life. As long as you understand it is faith as opposed to KNOWing then it is not nievity.

you may as well call me nieve for using an "A" at the beginning of my alphabet.

Are you making up words again, Scottie? Don't you know that you have to get them approved by Dubbya first?

the point being:bush did 911 as aptly shown by gerard with loads of arguments:

you daveman=fresca=etc moles either have counterarguments or else go give bush another blowjob,assmoles.

We hate niggers. Join us.

AND THE POINT,APTLY ARGUED FOR IN THE ORIGINAL POST,IS:

BUSH AND HIS GANG OF THUGS ARE BEHIND 911.